05/08/2021 - FOX Sports Saturday with Steve Hartman and Geoff Schwartz - Fox Sports Radio

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Leavin Drain once again
on a fabulous Saturday, Harvan and Schwartz with you from
the Fox Sports Radio studios. A big day. And I
understand this about Jeff. He's a little excited these days
because his San Francisco Giants took care of business against

(00:21):
the Podres last night, extending their lead in the n
L West. Do you have visions of grandeur with your
giants who, by the way, today about an hour from now,
first pitch between Giants Podres are you? Are you getting
visions of postseason play for your giants right now? Jeff,
I believe you should call them and you you missed

(00:41):
on this opportunity the first place and L West Santi Giants. Um,
I'm shocked. Every day I wake up, Uh you know,
I am on the East Coast. I'm actually in Dallas now,
but I'm not staying up to watch the late baseball.
That's I have kids now. Like I mean, before kids,
I'd stayed up and watched them play, especially in playoff games.
But yeah, I mean to wake up every morning and
see they have won and especially how they do. I mean,

(01:04):
they're a team that Buster Posey is playing at m
VP level. How long he'll be able to keep this
up because at his age most catchers are on the
down slide. But he did have last year off right,
so maybe that has helped keep him fresh, and they've
done a good job of moving him in out of lineup. Um.
But otherwise, like we're just a bunch of dudes, Like
we don't have a superstar. We don't Giants don't do

(01:25):
anything particularly well. I mean, they pitched pretty well this year.
The ear right, I believe is six or seventh in
Major League. Their bullpen has been much better, but it's
been worse of late. Um, But you know, they're just
they just played good baseball. I think I think Kapler's
pushing the right buttons. They're bringing the right people. Um,
you know, they're they're kind of playing the right people
here and there. They're doing it. I think Kapler is
doing a really good job of mixing the analytics and

(01:47):
the baseball, right. I think that's at times we get
to one track. No Dave Roberts for years was that
way right where they just the Dodgers. It wasn't really
his fault, but Dodgers were so focused on doing the
right thing according to what the paper said, number said,
and it wasn't helping them win games. I mean, when
you bench you know, you know, Cody Bellinger in a
World Series game because they hit lefties well when he

(02:07):
wins the m v P, Like, come on, guys, like
play Bellinger? Right um. I think Kapler's kind of finding
that groove. So it's been fun to watch. And they
played your padres in about an hour and I'm not
sure to have that on my my iPad. Yeah right now.
And believe it or not, that Giants have the oldest roster, Yes,
oldest roster in the major leagues. I mean Evan Longoria.
I mean I didn't know Evan Longoria was still playing
to be like two eight this year. Like the things

(02:30):
like all these guys are hitting, you still have their
holdovers like Crawford and Belt. I mean, this is the
team we'll see if it can hold up A long
way to go. That's the one that we're not playing
a sixty game season in baseball this year. It's one
sixty two, so we're about a fifth of the way through.
Every day that the Giants are in first place, I
will take because they're win total. I think was seventy two, um,

(02:51):
and the Dodgers win total was like a hundred and seven.
So anytime I can, I can, I can give one
the Dodgers, and I look, I'm poking my Dodger friends,
you know from Los Angelem Angels fan and so I've
been every morning I texted and be like, hey, guys,
it's not good for you, and it really it's kind
of isn't. So there is some trepidation there, but just
mocking them every day. That Johnson First place absolutely well.

(03:12):
I know there are a lot of people listening around
the country that love it when l A loses, and
right now both the Dodgers and the Lakers are in
free fall. So we'll get to that a little bit
later on, but once again, we have to start this
show with the latest on Aaron Rodgers, who, by the way,
is not even in Green Bay right now. He's actually
gonna be a guest star on The Connors, playing the

(03:36):
host of Jeopardy. So he is going to play the
host of Jeopardy on the comedy series The Connors. That
is where uh, Aaron Rodgers is right now, nowhere near
green Bay. Uh. The stories continue to filter out how
green Bay offered him the richest contract of any quarterback

(03:57):
in football. Apparently that's not enough to suffice right now
as far as Rogers concerned. So there's a lot of
layers here to get to. But let's let's start out
with the idea of moving on from Aaron Rodgers and
handing the ball to Jordan's Love. Something tells me right now,
and maybe I'm way off based on this, but I

(04:18):
get a sense right now the green Bay is having
some drafting remorse about selecting Jordan's Love where they did
in the first round. My guess is the Packers feel
that he's not ready and they may never have a
ready Jordan's Love to run this offense for the green

(04:38):
Bay Packers, which would of course make it more imperative
than ever to figure out a way to keep Aaron Rodgers.
Am I off base? Or could there be something to that? Well?
I mean, I think Roger's sense is that right? I mean,
if Rogers and we're now in like day eleven, it's funny,
my Pator radio show, we're keeping a daily count of
like the of like the holdout so or the drama

(05:00):
like Day eleven of Aaron Rodgers drama. Give us an update. Um,
you know, I think that if this was a Alex
Smith Pat Mahomes situation where Alex Smith had seen how
good Pat Mahomes was or Aaron Rodgers. Let's say Pat
Mahomes was on the on the Packers and Aaron Rodgers
had seen how good Pat Mahomes was, he would have
no leverage. Right, they'd be like, all right, well get gone,

(05:21):
like we'll trade you, get out of here. But I
do think he must have seen Jordan lov and practice
and it's like they can't play this guy. There's no
way they can play this guy. So I'm gonna use
some more leverage. I have to try to force them
to do what I want to do. And look, there's
many things Aaron Rodgers had said that he wanted right
fire the GM, more personnel control. But here's the thing

(05:42):
that can be done right now, Steve, and this entire
thing everyone knows it. Pay him more money. Right, they
just offered him to be the richest quarterback in the league. Well,
but remember the details or what matter NFL contracts, and
that's guaranteed money, because we we saw this year the
travesty of what a contract gonna be announced. Right, you

(06:04):
can have a contract that's ten years a hundred and
eighty five billion dollars, but the last nine years are
avoided and it's really a one year deal for three
million dollars, right, like you can you can say whatever
you want. It's far how big the contract is. But
what about that guaranteed money? Right? Are they giving him
extension and guaranteeing him at least two years? I think
he wants two or three years. That puts him at

(06:25):
forty years old, and that allows him to obviously, uh,
you know, kind of retire as a packer. But if
the packers do that, that ah show commitment to Aaron
Rodgers what he wants. He wants them to show that
they want Aaron Rodgers there. But too, it's basically telling
everyone that you screwed up the Jordan Love draft pick, right,
because if you guarantee Rogers two more years, he's gonna
play for those two years. You know, maybe in year

(06:47):
two of that deal, when he's forty or thirty nine ish,
he starts falling apart and George Love has to play,
but he's on your roster at least for next two years. Therefore,
Jordan Love is not playing for the next two years,
and you're now wasting more years of that rookie contract
that you've seen it has been so successful in building
up champions and you run into the issue of you
don't want a championship with Rogers, and then you don't

(07:08):
want and then you wasted the Jordan Love draft pick,
which is why you're in this spot in the first place. Remember,
that's why they're in the spot right because they drafted
Jordan Love instead of drafting a wide receiver. They're in
this spot for drafting the dB out of Savage I
believe his name is that the dB out of Georgia
this year during this spot because they drafted Jordan Love
last season and two years ago. Now trade up for him,

(07:28):
by the way. So that's the problem, Steve, is that
if you pay Rogers, you're giving up on Love. If
you don't pay Rogers, he's to beat the structle and
you have to play Love, who probably isn't ready right
now to play. All right, Jeff Well, I wanna I
wanna state something right now about Aaron Rodgers. If this
just comes down to a money grab, it only said
proves what I've said from the get go. Aaron Rodgers

(07:49):
is more concerned about Aaron Rodgers than anything else. This
is not Tom Brady. In fact, he is far removed
from Tom Brady. Is any quarterback I can think about
right now in the NFL? You know, I can plains
about the fact that you know, he needs a legitimate
number two, like go go get me, uh, somebody give
me Julio Jones fight, you know when maybe maybe Atlanta

(08:09):
is willing to part with Julio Jones. I need, I
need a number two. I got Davontie Adams. I need
a number two. And I think back to Tom Brady
and his his twenty years that he had in New England.
How many Hall of Fame receivers he had. He basically
had to Randy Moss for a couple of years, really
one big year and Gronk. Those are the only two
Hall of Famers he was throwing too. So he wasn't

(08:31):
suddenly being funneled in all this talent. You know what
he did. He made Wes Welker, He made Julian Edelman.
In other words, he wasn't handed a proven number two receiver.
He created them. That is how he did it. And
this is the thing that just kids to be about
Aaron Rodgers instead of constantly complaining about what the Packers

(08:53):
are not doing for him, make best of what you've
got and the idea that he has just one received her.
And we go back to that you know, critical fourth
down play in the NFC Championship against Tampa when he
tried to force the ball into a double covered Davante
Adams of the goal line instead of you know, whether
it was taken off running or looking for a secondary receiver,

(09:13):
it was almost his way of saying, I only have
one receiver here. You know what, Tom Brady didn't have
a long list of all stars. He created stars, and that,
to me is the reason why Tom Brady is sitting
there with seven Super Bowl rings and Aaron Rodgers has one.
I to me personally, if I were the Packers, I
would want to rid myself of this nightmare. The problem is,

(09:35):
I don't think Julian or Jordan's love is is the
right answer at quarterback. But this the more I hear
about Aaron Rodgers, the more that he exemplifies what he
is all about, the less I'm enamored with him. It's
not to take away from his talent. He's gonna be
a first ballot Hall of Famer, but so much of

(09:55):
what he does is the polar opposite of how Tom
Brady has become the greatest of all time. It is
the polar opposite. And you know, Rogers I think was overvalued.
You know what his what his team has done. I
mean he could he said, you know those private texts
that were leaked out that you know they're they're g M.
Brian goodagist is um is Jerry Krauss, right is the

(10:16):
famed general manager of the of the Bulls. Well, guess what,
they won six championships, right, and he did bring in
a bunch of talent to help that team, Like they're
not comparable to what they did. And I think it's funny. See,
you know how arguments and kind of these sessions go, Right,
we start with one extreme and I go to the
far other extreme. You know, we started with with the

(10:37):
idea that okay, there you know Rogers complaining, but look,
there were the number one offense last year that when
he won the MVP, Like there's some talent to where
it's like now people are like they never helped him out.
There's no talent the team, there's nothing. Yeah, all pro
left tackle, right, best pass Parker in the NFL, Davante Adams.
You know, I don't like that the drafted running back
last year, but they trafted running back like they have

(10:58):
they have had great players to help him out. Now,
they haven't invested the draft capital that other teams have
invested in those areas. But look at the Chiefs, right,
Travis Kelsey was not a first round draft pick. Tyreekill
was on a first round draft pick. Um, you know
you don't have you don't need to have a first
round draft pick to become a great offense, right, Um.

(11:18):
And so I just the offense is is fine, it's
working right now. And yes he does want more options
and I get that as every offensive player, every quarterback
wants more weapons to be had there. But your media
concern was defense, which is which is what they addressed
in the draft. You watched them play last year, You like,
you need to fix defense. So I think that, um

(11:39):
that it's um like we've got on the other extream
now right, Like the Packers are good, Like they are
a good team. They've been run very well. Yes they
haven't drafted the players he wanted, but there's still been
then checking him two years in a row, it's like
they're a bum franchise and they've been in the NFC
Championship Game the last couple of years, and somehow Aaron

(12:01):
Rodgers is trying to walk back that he had any
responsibility in those losses. Two years ago. The forty niners
were his kryptonite. He can do anything against. The forty
nine has got blown out in the regular season, lost
the NFC Championship Game, and frankly, they should not be
losing it home to Tampa. They should not have lost
that game home at Tampa. And guess what, Brady out
played him. So I mean, I the the whole Aaron

(12:24):
Rodgers thing, and and here, And we'll get a little
bit more into this a little bit later on because
I have other things we've got to get to today.
But you know, the idea that they're gonna trade him somewhere, whoever,
whoever is going to make a deal for Aaron Rodgers
gonna have to give up the house in order to
get him. And the guests is is that whatever team
he joins will be less than what he left in
Green Bay. Well, that thing about being traded to Denver, right,

(12:48):
is it would be ironic? Denver asked like Jerry Judy, Well,
of course I'm gonna answer, Jerry Judy. What do you
think they're gonna They're gonna ask for each other, They're
gonna ask for Judy, They're gonna ask for multiple number
one that they're gonna clean out the roster of the
Denver bron Because you want Aaron Rodgers, the league's m
v P. We're not gonna hand him to you, right,
And remember the every time about draft picks. Yes, I agree,

(13:08):
but remember if if Rogers goes to Denver, they're probably
making the playoffs. Any draft picks after twenty and so
that's not as valuable obviously as a top ten draft
pick or top five draft picks. So just saying hey,
give him draft picks, great, but we need you know,
we need Jerry Judy, we need no a fan like
we need a couple of guys to help our young

(13:29):
guy out. So yeah, yeah, And so I mean the
idea that it's gonna be greener passers elsewhere, it doesn't
fly with me. All right, I gotta get to this
other NFL story on the other side. Speaking of the
Denver Broncos, they're in a pickle right now because one
of their players got hurt off site, and the NFL
wants to make an example of him. The question is

(13:51):
do the Broncos follows suit. We'll tell you about this
impass between the league and the players union. Coming up next,
Steve Rban Jeff Schwartz on this Saturday, taking care of
some NFL business. All right, The Denver Broncos are in
a pickle right now. Jeff Juan James, who they gave

(14:17):
a huge contract to a couple of years ago. He
then got hurt. So in twenty nineteen he got paid
a twelve million dollars signing bonus and a five million
dollar salary and he played three games. So that was
his first year of the contract. Then last year he
chose to opt out, So he didn't, you know, as

(14:38):
many players did, just opted out a plane in. And
by the way, just before we go any further, it
was so by opting out, I know, there was like
a set salary as far as how much money he got,
you know, a small fraction of what he normally would get,
but didn't. That basically put the contract on hold. Isn't
that what it was if you opted out of plane in?

(15:00):
Yet it depended, it depended the reason why. If you
were a high risk opt out, you got more money
and you and you did not lose the year to
free agency. But your contract told over right. If you
opted out were no risk opt out or low risk
opt out, you got less MONEYNY one fifty year contract

(15:21):
told over and you did not get a year to
free agency or like or like, you didn't get a
pension year. Basically like they didn't count, all right. So
he got injured, and what is a potential is it
officially yet a season ating achilles? It's May eight, he's
an offensive lineman. I can't imagine he plays this season.
But it's I mean, there are medical uh you know,

(15:42):
victories all the time. I just can't imagine he's back.
All right, So the broad goes are on the hook,
or are they for his salary with a season any injury?
So here's here's what he would get in one and
put it this way, the collective bargaining agreement. They have

(16:07):
the right to not pay him in but they aren't
required to stiff him. Let's let's put it that way, okay,
So his salary for this year would be nine point
eight five million dollars. And I mentioned that twelve million
dollar signing bonus he had two years ago. Three million
of that would be applicable to one so they get

(16:29):
opt to not pay him a salary to get back
three million dollars of that signing bonus, and the NFL
wants them to do that. In other words, the league
is adamant and trying to force players to come in
for these voluntary so called voluntary offseason workouts and not

(16:50):
do workouts on their own. And if you do get
injured in a situation where you're in an off site place,
they feel that you are forfeiting your salary for that
upcoming season. So this is an impass right now. So
from a player's standpoint, where do you stand on this?
And ultimately, if it's a season and the injury, what

(17:13):
do you think the Broncos are going to do? All right?
So let's uh, let's back up a tiny bit here.
So um, in our c b A, if you get
hurt training away from the facility, the team has a
right to avoid your contract or come get some of
the money back, right And most of the time when
that happens, the team doesn't do that. Right, team honors

(17:35):
the deal, you get paid, or you work out it
maybe a restructure and you get paid and everyone's like,
all right, cool. So there's two things that play here.
One is that Juwan James has played three games in
two years after gave him a big deal right in
twenty nineteen. You only played three games last year he
sent out. So there's already some like you know, the
Broncos kind of have some buyers remorse on that contract.

(17:55):
But more importantly, the NFL p A has decide to
take a stand the on off season workouts with the league. Right,
typically most of there's a ten week off season program.
It is voluntary, but for a three day minicamp, and
everyone would be in right now in that officers and program.
And for years everyone just showed up. I mean it

(18:17):
was voluntary, mandatory, right, everyone showed up. A couple of
guys held out every now and then. It was the
only way players could like make a big stink about
a contract. You know, Tom Brady never showed up because
he never he never needed it. Um And a lot
of teams include workout bonuses to get players to show
up to cold weather cities Green Bay, Buffalo, right Cleveland. UM,
And you know there's a there's a way to earn
two dollars because we do. We really don't get paid

(18:40):
for the for the office and workouts. We get very
very minimal stipend. It's not very much. Um and uh.
And so this year the the NFL decided, the n
f L p A, the players decided we're not gonna
show up for office in program for two reasons. One
they said it was COVID related. I doubt that I
think that that UM, you know that it UM there

(19:01):
is some concern about the protocols that you know, are
they going to test every day? What? What about vaccinated
players that had not been decided with with the NFL.
I think there was some trepidation for players that they
just didn't want to get tested every day. Again, I mean,
I don't think it was because they were worried about
getting COVID, just the protocols really weren't in place. But
more importantly, and the p A has said this UM,

(19:22):
is that they don't want to do the office program anymore. Right,
the NBA doesn't have an offcene program, Major League based
only doesn't have an off scene program, and they just
don't want to do it. And this is their first
way to to not do it. It's just to make
a mass uh you know, a mass uh no show. Okay, Steve,
The OS program is so easy. I wouldn't spend a

(19:43):
single second if I were the players negotiating out four
hours a day, four days a week for ten weeks,
it goes to six hours the last three weeks. You're
there four days a week. You're there for four to
six hours. And we want to remove that and give
money back to the owners to take away voluntary off

(20:04):
season workouts. Some of us like going to those because
we hang out with our friends. We get out of
the house, we go golfing with our friends. Like we
hang out, we're trained together. We we have some camaradoe.
We we we build up um a little bit of
that chemistry. And to get rid of that and make
a big stink over this, to me, it's completely mind blowed.
I do not understand why we would give up a

(20:26):
single There are players that are forfeiting six figures and
workout bonuses to not go work out this year. Do
you know who keeps that money? The owners keep that money.
We don't get that money back. We're forfeiting money to
not show up to the off season workouts were if
we negotiate this out of our ten years cb A

(20:47):
that we just signed last season with nine years aufter
our c b A. If we negotiate this out of
the cb A, guess what we're giving money back to
the owners. That seems crazy to me for something that
is so easy. It's not like we're fighting for lifetime
insurance here, or padded practices during the season, or and
you know a myriad of other things that we have
to worry about roster size and rookie wage scale and

(21:09):
minimum salaries and minimum floor argument awesome. The owners will
always give in on this. They have given in every
time we've said we want less practice and less pads
and all this stuff. They've given every time because they
do not care. Because the owners just care if we
show up on Sundays and play football, make the money,
and like the idea that we're fighting over something that
is like so miniscule. And now it has cost Juan

(21:30):
James probably money because the NFL will make an example
out of him and say, hey, you got hurt off site,
especially during the office and program. This is supposed to
be happening. Now he got hurt off site. They're gonna
make an example of him, and they're gonna take his money.
Al Right. On the other side, Jeff, I'm gonna bring
up a subject that maybe not a good subject for you,

(21:51):
but to me, I've gotta I gotta state something. On
the other side, it's related to this situation and a
much broader picture when it comes to the world of
sports and athletes involved at the highest level. But first,
but first, let's check in once again with David Gas.
Gone up. Man. By the way, I had the great

(22:12):
pleasure Jeff, of doing a podcast with Ben Maller and
David Gas Gone Yeah. It was fun. Uh. It was
released yesterday of the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller Live Tunes.
I hurt download that episode. The title of it was
called A Loose Cannon. A Loose Cannon. Yes, it's amazing

(22:34):
when Ben brings up his beginnings of his fabulous career
that he has had. It's in turning, you know, bumping
around like most people. It's kind of odd we have,
like us three have kind of navigated in that same
I guess decrepit Pool where I interned for you back
in the day, like in two thousand four, two thousand five. Yes,

(22:57):
but I started in San Diego at third sixty. That's
where Ben started, and then that's where you're at. Now.
See how this works, Jeff, you start crossing paths of
the same people. See Jeff, Jeff is you know, he's
he's got the foot on the accelerator here at gas Gun.
You know, David because he's uh he jumps right in
from his playing career and already a star at this level.

(23:19):
But uh, yeah, for most of us, Jeff, you know,
we have to kick around in the dirt quite a bit. Yeah,
and hopefully emerged. I did. Originally when I first started
getting the media, I was doing like twelve minute hits
on Brandon radio stations. There you go, there you go,
And I'll begin by the way, I'm almost also going
to bring up some gambling with Jeff later on David. Yeah,

(23:41):
I'm gonna do some gambling tonight, if you get what
I'm saying. When Elon Musk makes his appearance on Saturday Night,
I heard a lot of a lot of cast members
weren't happy with that. Ever choice walk it off, yea
or walk off, um guys. Major League Baseball, Yankees and
Nashville's getting things underway. Cory Kluberg Max Sters are finally
that pitching matchup two and a half hour weather delay
because the Rain Cardinals five, Rockies one, Coupies one nothing

(24:03):
over the Pittsburgh Pirates. Those going games happening right now
on the ice, Rangers and Bruins just underway from Boston,
and there is no score. Storytime, Steve Hartman, you're up
all right, Well, I want to get to this with
Jeff in the aftermath of what's happening right now with
the Juan James injury. As you mentioned, if he's out

(24:24):
for the season, that means he will play a total
of three games. Uh, and have made a lot of money,
a lot of money. UM. I was reminded of this
with the sudden UH cut by the Angels of Albert Pooholtz,
who signed a tenure, two forty million dollar contract with
the Angels back in at a time when he was

(24:46):
recognized as the unquestioned best hitter and all of baseball.
Unfortunately for the Angels, that guy never showed up in
Anaheim ever. Uh. Some of the numbers are just staggering,
and this last year of his deal was the richest
of the years. Thirty million dollars is his salary and
they're all in for that. That's all guaranteed money. Uh.

(25:08):
And he was hitting whopping one when they released him.
In his ten years with the Angels, he had two
fifty six and eleven years with the Cardinals, he had
three eighth. Just all the numbers across the board. Let's
put it this way. They didn't get their money's worth.
I think his war in St. Louis was in the
eighties and his war in Anaheim was twelve twelve. Yeah,

(25:29):
so uh and and he won two World Series in St. Louis.
He never won a playoff game with the Angels, who,
by the way, not long before he had joined him,
had made the playoffs six out of eight years. So
when I when I think and I see this, I
remember Chris Bosh. Remember he had with the Miami he
had the Claudia problems and he was forced to retire,

(25:50):
but they still paid him three more years of a
guaranteed contract total of seventy two million. They paid him
for seasons in which he was plane um. And so
that's always good fact because I know the NFL gets
frustrated with these guaranteed contracts and basketball guaranteed contracts in baseball,
which so often backfire on teams where they're paying out

(26:13):
money and getting absolutely nothing in return. And then you
get this situation where you put the big money out
front with signing bonuses and and guaranteed money. I went
seeking more and more guaranteed money, and so much of
that money ends up not really living up to the
hype or guys not even plane. But the money is

(26:35):
already in the pocket because I'm just trying to think
of any other jobs like that. There aren't many jobs
out there where you get guaranteed money even if you're
not working. Um, but that is where we are now
in the desperate attempt to entice the biggest name athletes.
Signed here, sign here. Here's an extra five years, extra
ten years. That's what it came down with the Albert Pools.
No one was offering him ten years. They were offering

(26:57):
five years because they're all kinds of suspicions about his aid.
But the Angels, in order to get what they thought
was the best hitter in baseball, game a ten year
guaranteed contract. By the way, for the next ten years,
he has a personal service contract with the Angels to
pay him a million year, and he's already public publicly
state he can't wait to get started. So but no,

(27:18):
I think it's a million for ten years. It's it's
I don't know what it is, but I mean, it's
a personal services contract. And he's made a statement. And
by the way, let me say this about pool Holes,
even though he's obviously failed to deliver on what was
promised when he joined the Angels, by all accounts, he's
an outstanding citizen. He does a lot of charity work,
he and his wife. So as far as being the individual,

(27:39):
I hold nothing against pool Holes. He's done everything right.
He's a model for Major League Baseball. But again, you're
investing money in an athlete. What does an athlete have
to offer me? Okay, and that is his ability to
perform on the field, on the court, on the diamond,
wherever they on the ice, you've got to perform. And
if you go back to the old days, Jeff, when

(27:59):
everyone was working on one year contracts, you had a
good year, you gotta raise. If you had a bad year,
you gotta pay cut. That's how it used to be.
So for I mean, this current situation here with John
James isn't just about whether they pay him or not.
This brings to me a bigger question because I know
the NFL wants to get there with more guaranteed money,

(28:22):
but in a sport where injuries are so prevalent, how
can you justify it? Seriously, how can you justify any
and all that money when you don't know if the
guy's next place his last. Well, I mean, there's the
players want guarantee money, but it's it's just not feasible
right with with how much uh the injury rate is

(28:42):
and how much um, you know, turnover there can be.
And I don't think that arguing for guarantee contract is
the way to go. I think a proposal of sorts,
you know where it depending on what year you and
if you get released out of your deal, you get
a cut of that of that contract, still right. So
if you're in year eight, let's say, and you get released,
you get ex percent of your deal, still right. I

(29:03):
feel like as you eat, the more you play, maybe
you earn a little bit more of that money if
you get released. But yeah, I mean, guaranteed contracts is
never gonna happen because teams just won't pay very much,
right though, instead of making a you know, instead of
getting a you know, an eighty five year deal or
fifty million, They'll give you a five year deal for
twenty five million, right Like, They're just not gonna give
you as much money, and then you just you won't
you know, you can make that twenty five or thirty

(29:24):
million in two years and with the old structure of
the contract, right So, I just think we're gonna see
it's it's not gonna work. Steve Um Just remember two
you know, the NBA doesn't actually have guaranteed contracts and
their c b A they just decided to do that. Um,
NFL team can decide to give as much guarantee money
as they want to someone. I thought that there was

(29:45):
opportunity for like Russell Wilson when he got a new
deal a while back, to get like a fully guaranteed
contract or or you know, or Pat Mahomes. But we're seeing, Look,
Cousins has a fully guaranteed deal, right like, it's pretty
much fully guaranteed, so it can be done. Um, it
doesn't happen very well often. And again I'm not I
don't think that makes sense for us to negotiate full
guarantee deals. It just doesn't. It's just it. It's it's

(30:09):
never gonna happen, and there are other ways to try
to put money in our pockets. Yeah, I just it
just it's frustrating, I know for a lot of fans
because when we when we talk about teams operating in
a cap situation. Now baseball doesn't have a cap, but
when you just think of all the wasted money on
players giving guarantee money on pictures to get hurt. Where

(30:31):
else can you make multimillions of dollars and not even play.
Here's the Here's the thing about it is that a
lot of times you're paying for for almost past performance,
right because especially in the NFL, um if you hit
free agency, that means your team didn't watch you, right.
And typically the best players end up being kept by

(30:53):
their team, right because the team does everything possible to
keep a superstar. Not not always a case or there's
not there's not there's you know in sports, or no
absolutes all the time, you know, But Albert poo Holst
was being paid for almost past performance hoping that they
could get the same. Before then, I watched this happened
with Barry Zito and Jeff so Marga with the Giants,
I mean, you know, I guess zero at the time
was really good. But they basically paid him for what

(31:14):
he did, not what he was going to do in
San Francisco, which at the time is hard, right because
you think he's gonna do that and everything, but there
were signs maybe that that was not gonna last forever.
That's what happened to a lot of times. They pay
for what they're hoping that you can continue to do
what you're doing, but realistically that doesn't always happen, right.
We know careers, typical career fades over time, and in

(31:34):
baseball during the steroid era, players were playing much longer,
and when you gave him those contracts, it was working.
And now with guys in a normal trajectory, it ain't working.
Giving these old guys money. Yeah, I I it just
it really, I don't know, it just it just seems
like I get where the players are. Look if if

(31:57):
I if every one of us could somehow get, you know,
a guaranteed contract and that for whatever reason, we're not
able to fulfill the obligations we had and why we
were given that deal. But that this gets back to
the pool whole situation. They gave him ten years instead
of five years to get five good years out of him,
and they didn't even get that. But isn't also like

(32:19):
when you give a young player deal like like Tatis,
if you're a Padres fan, that's even a bigger risk.
I mean, the guy's hitting to eighteen right now, but
you know he's there for ten years, like you know
that fourteen years. That's a fourteen year contract does he have?
He has no no trade no trade out, no opt out, nothing.
He is fourteen years. If you're fourteen years, if you're

(32:41):
a Padres fan, I mean you have to know at
least he's there right like he's your hob. He's there,
but he has a shoulder injury that isn't a hundred percent.
And then you you you based you you gave him
a fourteen year contract, three forty million dollars guaranteed, every
penny guaranteed for a guy who had play less than
a hundred sixty two games. He rolled the dice. He

(33:03):
rolled the dice on a young kid that was being
projected not only is the face or franchise, but the
phrase of major League Baseball. And you know, I thought
going into the season he would handle the pressure well
he hasn't. He's hitting two eight teen, he leads the
league in airs. So, um, I don't know where they
go from here. It can't get worse, I think. But

(33:24):
you know you're you're on the hook for fourteen years
of this. Yeah, I mean, but again, like, I'm never
gonna say that players shouldn't get as much money as possible.
Why is that? Why is that? Um? Why why should
the players get as much money as possible? Because owners
make a ton of money, we should get as much
as um. But yeah, I uh, I know it's frustrating
at times to see players make so much money not playing. Look,

(33:46):
I was one of them. I played eleven of thirty
two games of the Giants after they paid me a
lot of money, and um, you know, I the injuries
I sustained weren't of my doing. It wasn't that. It
wasn't didn't train, I wasn't ready to play. I just
broke my leg twice and people follow my leg um,
And should I not get paid because of that? Like that? Again,
I wasn't my doing. I just was injury. Should am

(34:08):
I not? I wasn't making you know, I wasn't making
Albert Pool's money. But Um, the idea that that I
shouldn't get paid because I got hurt playing football when
it wasn't my doing. Concept's wrong with me considering how
much you know, time and effort I put into getting
ready to play, and again it wasn't my fault. I
I look, and I know what you're gonna say, and
that that's fine. That's fine. But again it's a very

(34:29):
unique situation with athletes because you know, other people go
on the shelf. I don't show up for work, you
don't get paid. Um. But anyway, I want to put
that aside because there's much more to Jeff Schwartz than
just you know, breaking down the excess and ose and
everything else. There's a gambling aspect to his UH resume

(34:50):
that I want to get to. On the other side,
the latest on how gambling is going to take the
sports world as big as it is two The Stratosphere
coming up next, Steve Harbon. Jeff Schwartz my original loose
cannon partner from until he passed away in n Jeff

(35:15):
was chet forty. He was the original producer director of
Monday Night Football. He also was very famous for being
a compulsive gambler that derailed his producing directing career. He
resurrected it doing sports talk radio in essentially gambling rehab.
Very famous story that he told me the first Super

(35:36):
Bowl that ABC ever carried Super Bowl was Super Bowl
nineteen Joe Montana versus Dan Marino, and as Chet's getting
ready to direct the Super Bowl. Okay, this is you know,
he's the guy producing directing the Super Bowl. He gets
a phone call that there's money going down on Miami.
He likes the forty Niners, and by the time the

(35:57):
game kicked off, he had over two thousand dollars bet
on the game team and trying to focus on twenty
cameras and direct a game. Now, ultimately he won that bets.
That was a good day for him. But I remember
thinking about these stories, like, well, how how much of
that is actually going on? For years? For years, the
NFL was in denial. I remember doing my national radio

(36:19):
show here at Fox with Chris Meyer's back in the day,
and of course Chris has been doing play by play
for the NFL for years. It was back like two
thousand and we got into this argument about how big
gambling was for the NFL, and he was taking the
NFL side of it at the time zero and I said,
what are you talking about. I mean, gambling has made
the NFL what it is today. Now that was a

(36:40):
decade ago. Now look where we are. I dare say
that we have more people who follow the NFL that
have an allegiance to the league purely from a gambling aspect,
whether it's actually betting on games or through fantasy football,
than they do to have any allegiance to any team.
I mean, to me, the numbers aren't even close. And

(37:00):
now I see where Clay Travis had his OutKick Media
uh site acquired by Fox. I saw where DraftKings just
throughout fifty million dollars to Dan Lebotard's metal Ark of Media.
These are podcasts that have a gambling aspect to them.
So here we are years later when the all these

(37:23):
professional sports were saying no and now we don't want
any part of it. And now when they see the
billions and billions and billions of dollars they're gonna be
funneled into the sports world through the gambling aspect, they
are open arms welcome in. I mean the potential additional revenue.
I can't even put a number in my head. It's
that staggering it is. Um, you know Clay's website, and

(37:47):
I've known Clay for for thirteen years. I remember when
he started that back in two thousand and eleven. Um,
I think I actually wrote on the website for like
a little bit of time when I was playing, because
you know, I was writing, did a little bit of
writing when I was playing. Um, um, my, congratulations to
him on that. You know that that's fun so much
a game he does gambling obviously, I don't think they
And so I think his deal with fan Duel is
still there. I don't know if that it's an acquisition

(38:08):
based off of gambling. I think a lot of his content, Um,
you're not always gambling related, but the Meadowlark Media deal
with with DraftKings and and look, fan Duel is paying
a lot a lot of money to people as well. Um,
we just saw the news that Ohio is legalizing gambling
very soon. You know, I'm hoping that my state in
North Carolina will do it. You know, some of the
bigger states accounting everywhere. It's just a matter of these

(38:30):
states that I mean, they're all gonna do it, you
know that. Well, it's a matter. It's a matter of
like in the you know, California, New York for something,
it's about dealing with some of the Indian casinos and
the tribes and figuring out and that's part of what
California is a little bit behind. But yeah, it will
all happen. Um. The reason why there's injury reports in
the NFL, it's for gambler is in it for the NFL,

(38:51):
like for gets and so gambling has always been part
of the game. I'm glad we're getting out in front
of it and we're now pertaining it actually happens. We're
not pretaining. We know what happens, um, and it makes
it more fun to watch in my opinion. Again, it's
not for everyone, and I get that, and usually gamble
responsibly and and you know, only bet when you can

(39:11):
bet um um. But yeah, it's well, you're you're down
playing this. I mean, we're we're talking numbers. You know.
It used to be sort of like and you know
how many people are really gambling? Like who's not gambling?
In some aspect you're gambling. I'm not a gambler because
I was a loser very early on in my gambling

(39:32):
career in the early eighties and I gave up. So
no one wins a gambling losers and liars. Is that
what they say about gamblers. They don't build those towers
in Vegas because people win, right, I understand, But you
know again that's why it's important to only bet what
you can lose. Um. But you know, definitely makes I
have you know, five waters on baseball today. I got

(39:53):
Cubs pirates, got the under right now, and then I
bound the Giants today. Like it makes it a lot
more fun to watch sports when you're able to gamble
on it. Um. And so you know, it's um like
I'm watching, like I said, I'm watching, I got the
under in Cubs Pirates. I mean I would not be
watching this game regularly, so but now I am. And um,
you would love Chat back in the day. Back in

(40:15):
the problem for Chat was he bet on every game
every day. If they were a hundred college basketball games,
he bet an all hundred. I didn't do that. I
take it a two day break on baseball. Is baseball
is very rough and you just play over unders on
the runs. Is that pretty much we deal with baseball? No,
I take money lines and over unders and first five
with THEMS pitching and stuff. Yeah, okay, Um, we're gonna
talk about the sports capital of the world in Sucking

(40:38):
It In One coming up next. Fox Sports Radio has
the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all
of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and
within the I Heart Radio app search f s R
to listen live. Hey, it's Ben, host of the Fifth
Hour with Ben Mallory along with my trusty sidekick David Gascon.

(40:59):
Would mean a lot to have you join us on
our weekly auditory journey. You're asking one in God's name
is the Fifth Hour? I'll tell you it's a spin
off of the Ben Mather Show. Cold Hit overnights on
fs are Why should you listen? Picture if you will
a world will We chat with captains of industry in media,
sports and more every week Explorer some amazing facts about
human nature and more. Let'sten to the Fifth Hour with

(41:22):
Ben Mallow on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast
or wherever you get your podcast. All right, rolling along
here on this Saturday, Hartman and Schwartz in our Fox
Sports Radio studios. We've got a lot of things going
on right now. We talked some NFL very busy first hour.
We're gonna get to a subject matter that is a

(41:43):
bit of a sore spot for some of our listeners
out there. Jeff and I'm speaking to sports fans in
the city of Los Angeles. Los Angeles. Now, if you
don't know the dynamic, and of course, Jeff, you grew
up and of course I'm I'm an l A person
having grown up here my self. Um, you know this
is this is the was an interesting year for l

(42:07):
A sports. The Lakers won their first NBA title in
ten years and the Dodgers won their first World Series
in thirty two years. But there are no parades. We're
in the midst of a pandemic. The NBA had to
restarted season, go to a bubble. No one was there,

(42:28):
played on all the games on the same court throughout
the playoffs. Lakers prevail, Dodgers win the World Series in
a sixty game season. They had to add a level
to the playoffs, and again they ended up playing World
Series games in Texas. They didn't even have games at
Dodgers Stadium. So officially it goes in the record books

(42:49):
as a world championship for the Lakers, a world championship
for the Dodgers. But everyone thought, all right, they went
in they'll be even stronger in one. And both teams
gone off too good starts. The Dodgers started this year
thirteen and two. Some people were thinking the Dodgers could
set the all time record for wins, where there was

(43:10):
talk about what the Mariners did in two thousand one
when they won a hundred sixteen games. Can the Dodgers
top that? Thirteen and two has turned into seventeen and sixteen.
They've lost fourteen of their last eighteen games. And then
there was the Lakers. Off to great start, Lebron runaway,
m v P goes down with an injury, a d

(43:31):
down with an injury. Lakers lose last night to Portland.
As of now, they're not even in the playoffs. They're
in the play in So what was the sports capitol world?
And if you don't totally understand the dynamic of l A,
it's the Dodgers and Lakers and everybody else. Okay, there's

(43:51):
there's two teams in l A that stand out. It's
not the Rams and not the Chargers, USC and u C.
L A have their moments. The l A Kingsman football
football is on. It's it's up there, and that's that's rare.
I mean, and when we talk about the height of
the peat Carroll era, what was that was? Yeah? That
was that was? I mean, you could go back to
u C. L A Basketball selling out PAULI back in

(44:13):
the John winning days. But I'm talking about year and
in Europe, Dodgers and Lakers own the city of l A.
And they rewarded l A in a weird way with
championships where no one could celebrate. And now simultaneously these
two franchises are implodinge Now, I know you have an

(44:33):
allegiance to the Bay Area and we're about to have
the Giants first place excuse me, first place Giants taking
on the Potteries right now. But what is your perspective
on Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw a big one
at you here looking back at as far as the
Dodgers winning the World Series and the Lakers winning the

(44:54):
NBA Championship in the midst of the pandemic with altered
schedules to get the sea reasons in how much validity
to put to those championships. Well, the Dodgers and I
you know, I disliked the Dodgers very much, and I've
joked that you know, it was a third of a championship,
but they put a third of a season. Um, that

(45:14):
feels less legitimate than the Lakers. I mean the Lakers
that and being last year played seventy games, right, I
mean they obviously, you know, took some time off and
got you know, kind of got back in the bubble.
But it felt like, um, that felt more real, right
they went through full playoffs and uh, you know the
Lakers didn't run through the playoffs, right, there was some issues, uh,
you know with with um you know, they lost what

(45:34):
two games every series? I think they make something like that. UM.
So I put more into the Lakers and I do
the Dodgers. Um. But this year, I mean for both teams,
it's injuries, right, you know the Dodgers injuries, I think, um,
we're are more surprising. They just put Dustin may On
uh injured reserve for the year. With with the Tommy
John Uh, they've had a couple of knacking things here

(45:54):
and there. But for the Lakers, their injuries, I think
you'd be traced back to the zero offseason the NBA had, Right.
They try to cram in a season this year by
starting it barely after you know, a couple of months
after the season. I remember watching Sunday a football in
the NFL and the Lakers at the same time, which
never had happened in the history of everything, right, Summit

(46:15):
football in the NBA in you know finals at the
same time. Um, they just didn't win enough time. Now,
Lebron's hurt, now, a DA's hurt now, ideas back. Lebron's
coming back kind of slowly, and the whole NBA has
suffered from injuries this season, and they just tried to
cram through their season. This is what happened to some degree.

(46:36):
You're absolutely right, But I want to I'm gonna start
with the Lakers right now for a moment, and I
want to in particular zero win on Anthony Davis the unibrow,
you know, a year ago. Obviously he was a key
contributor all NBA performer and helping the Lakers win that championship.
But in his seven seasons in New Orleans, they made

(47:00):
the playoffs twice. They won a total of one playoff series.
He's also been fragile. The most games he's ever played
in the season is seventy five. So unlike so many
years when you have like these dominant big men, like
franchise big men that you just add them to their roster,
like when David Robinson went to San Antonio or Tim

(47:21):
Duncan went to San Antonio. You know, you can go
down the long list of the mere presence of a
big man changes the fortune of the team. Anthony Davis
has never been that. He's not a one, he's a two.
And when he was a two to Lebron last year
and they were both healthy, you saw the end results.
But the problem for the Lakers is they're banking on

(47:42):
Anthony Davis to be a one once Lebron is gone.
He's only twenty eight years old, Anthony Davis, and so
they're they're hooked up their future to this guy that
somehow you can build a franchise around him. And I
got news for the Lakers. He's not that guy. He's
like Power Gasoul. It's essentially what he is. Pal Gasol

(48:02):
was a perfect supporting character to Kobe Bryant, just like
Anthony Davis is a nice supporting player for Lebron. But
he's not a guy to build your franchise around. And
he looks more fragile with each passing day. So I
the Lakers right now are in a predicament. I mean,
is Lebron ever going to be the player he was

(48:25):
eighteen years? This idea that Lebron is in destructive but
he'll go on and on and on. Maybe not eventually,
you you do destructor. I saw Kobe in Los Angeles
eventually destructed his last three years where the game seventy
million to do nothing. Yeah, which I which I know
you love about about athlete contracts. So um. Look, as
a Lakers fan, I just think to myself, just get

(48:47):
to the postseason, right, get Lebron and Anthony Davis in
the post season, and it'll be fine if they're both
help which which which might not happen, right, But that's
the way I think a lot of Lakers fans are looking.
That's what I've been saying for all the whole long
I've been to I'm my youngest son. He's just the
Lakers are everything to him, and he kept saying, Dad,
things sucked, they sucked. I said, yeah, call me when
the playoffs begin. But after watching Anthony Davis get hurt

(49:10):
the other day and that Clipper game and then they
go up to Portland. They always love to Portland, anyway.
But if they're in that playing thing, which, by the way,
Lebron said, whoever came up with the idea of the
play and should be fired, uh, and actually saved their season.
I'm not even so sure. If I were a Laker
fan right now to that degree, I would just say,
just let's wait till next year and see what happens,

(49:30):
because it ain't happening this year. Lakers are not winning
any championship. Well, I mean they're with the way the
injuries looked or not. Um. You know, the thing about
the playing game is you know, if if, if it
really makes the Lakers or Celtics not basically part of
the playoffs, and he's gonna end this right, it's not.
It wasn't done for the the you know, your your

(49:51):
load bearers, right, your franchises that everyone watches to be
part of it. It's done for for other franchises, um,
to get into the playoffs and create some attach chin
around them if the Lakers lose. The playing game is
a tournament or is the game? Is it one game?
All right? Here's how it works with the play in.
So the top six seeds are in the players. So

(50:11):
the seven seed is determined. So the seven plays the
eight seed, the winner of that game is the seven seed.
The nine plays the tennesse seed, the loser is eliminated.
Then the loser of the seven eight game plays the
winner of the nine ten game, and the winner of
that game is the eighth seed. So that's how it
all plays out. So there'll be three games played. The

(50:32):
winner of the seven eight game is the seventh seed.
The winner the loser of the nine ten game is out,
and then the loser the seven eight plays the winner
of the nine ten to determine the eight seeds. So
the loser of the seven eights double elimination for them correct,
and then the and then the winner of the nine
tenn has to win twice correct to get into the

(50:52):
eight se So how that's how it works. I gotta man,
I don't understand what the NBA is doing with this gimmicks.
I couldn't agree more. Why are you doing this? And
by the way, because if the Lakers, let's see, the
Lakers are the seventh seed right now, okay, they would
beginning or play Phoenix, which by the way, is as
nicely as the Sons have played. If I were the Lakers,
right now I'd rather see Phoenix than the Clippers in

(51:15):
the first round. The Clippers once again swept the Lakers
this year. They've had their number for a number of years.
Right now the playoffs, So what does it matter that
the regular season? Well exactly, but anyway, but I would
rather see Phoenix. But here's the thing, So you're risking.
Let's say the Lakers end up the seventh seed. Well,
you would have Lebron James guaranteeing at the best four
out of seven series against Phoenix. But now is the

(51:37):
seven seed. Guess what they might play the eight seed,
which is I don't know, Golden State. Maybe Steph Curry
shoots him out and all of a sudden, the Lakers
have to win a nine ten winner just to get
in the playoffs. And if Lebron is out of the playoffs,
do you know how much the NBA loses? Which is
why I think they won't do this again for this

(51:58):
exact reason, because the NBA is gonna have a big
issue when Lebron leaves the game, because you know, as
much as is Steph curR is exciting to watch, I
don't think he brings the same amount of attention because remember,
people watch Lebron to also hate on Lebron right, like
people watching and like he's polarizing, and you know, the

(52:20):
NBA doesn't have a villain and Lebron, I think you
can sometimes play that villain UM, And I think that's
where the NBA is lacking, Like they just don't have
a villain. They don't have a team where you know,
they don't have the bad boy Pistons, right, they don't
have a team that you're rooting against, UM and that
is Lebron though, people against Lebron, but that's the guy
you have left and as soon as he's out of

(52:41):
the NBA, they have a problem. And they don't have
a problem because the ratings are continuing to go down.
I just you know, look, I'm a sports fan. I
will watch I was watching FCS playoffs today, like I
will watch sports, right, I watch. I love watching college softball,
college baseball, literally World Series. I watch it all. But
the n B A to me, man, it's it's hard
to get into it because I feel like the regular

(53:03):
sason does not matter. Right, the Lakers end up being healthy,
which is a big if, but Lebron a dear healthy.
The regular season was meaningless because they just come in
the playoffs. Is a seven or eight seed, you probably
win the playing game and it's gonna be the finals,
like doesn't matter. This has been the most forgettable regular
season ever for the NBA because the majority of your

(53:25):
stars have had extended periods of time out that try
to jam the season in. Remember they started two months late.
They had a restart for teams that weren't ready to
restart because they didn't have much of an off season.
And somehow this is all bearing on the fact that
they want to make sure NBA players are available for
the Olympics. I mean, I just just I don't understand

(53:46):
what the NBA is doing. The numbers are down, no
one's watching, nobody cares. It's been a rough here for
the NBA. Maybe they can salvage it with some kind
of memorable run as far as the you know, the
playoffs are concerned. But who who would who would be
the memorable run? Because you know, it's it's just like
who who would it be? Like who would be where
you'd be like, man, I just gotta watch. Well, it

(54:08):
wouldn't look at it. It It would have been no the Warriors.
The Warriors are all broken up. Look, going into the season,
with all the star power, the optimum finals would have
been the Nets and the Lakers. Right, You've got Lebron,
you got Kevin Durandy, got Kyrie Irving, You've got James Harden.
You know that is your optimum? How does that look

(54:30):
right now? What are the what are the odds of
old Lakers nets NBA finals? Probably I actually might have
been on that. I don't gotta look and see. Um
obviously not not very likely. So I mean, what, what
do you what's drawing your attention? If it's not Lakers Nets?
I don't know. That's my whole point. What is drawing
your attention? That's the thing about like the Clippers. You
know this idea of Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. Nobody

(54:53):
drawn to that. No, but Kawa is obviously a fantastic player,
he'll be a Hall of Fame. But he's drawn. He's
not he's not exciting, Like he's not a personality where
you're like, wow, he's not a must watch. I mean,
I mean, I'll tell you what. When you know with
with the Raptors, as they were going down the stretch,
they were must watching. They're playing good basketball, and Kauai
was fun to watch during that stretch. But again, it

(55:14):
was more about the Raptors I think as a team
than it was in their story that it was about
Kauai individual and the Clippers to me look obviously, um,
you know, they've been kind of the dormat of of
l A for a while and they're not anymore. But
they still haven't. They've never been Western CARMA's final for
like there, They've never really had success, even though they've
been winning a lot more later. I still remember them

(55:34):
with the Sports Arena for like seven dollars and sat
like courtside when I was a kid. I mean, I
remember doing a lot of their games. But again, like
the Clippers, just even though in l a, man, no
one cares about the Clippers. And what's amazing is if
you look over over the last several years, like the
last eight years, the Lakers Clippers rivalry has been so

(55:56):
one sided in the Clippers favor it's just it's laughable.
But don't you haven't won a championship, so who cares
exactly the Lakers. The Lakers have not won a season
series against the Clippers since that's the last time the
Lakers want a season series against the Clippers was twelve.
Uh and yet like you say, nobody in l A

(56:17):
registers with the clip, Why I say nobody, But it's
a Lakers down I mean, but think about this, but
most I always convinced the late the majority Clippers fans
are Laker haters. That's my nights, my thing. But like,
but to me though, like a Laker hater with like Boston,
like the Clippers and Lakers is a rivalry only on
the Clippers side. The Lakers rival is Boston like to me.
And maybe it's the Warriors a little bit because of

(56:39):
how good they've been. But like I I don't like
I am the Lakers fan. I don't can see the
Clippers arrival. It's the same as like Giants and A's
and the Angels Dodgers, like the Dodgers arrival at least
now is the Padres because they're but it's a giant's right,
and the Angels rival is the Dodgers. The Dodgors don't
care about the Angels very much. That's what I feel
with the Lakers and Clippers. Um, the Clippers there the

(57:01):
third tenant in their own building rights Lakers Kings and
then them like they just it's just tough kind of
sledting where they are right now, and they gotta win
some championships to turn this city towards them, all right,
So the NBA is having problems really generating interests in
their regular season playoffs. Around the corner, what about the
start of the baseball season. You know, at this point
last year, we're heading down the stretch. Now we're heading

(57:23):
into this long marathon. We'll give it a little update
on baseball and how remembering one of its old time
legends was a reminder of what baseball used to be.
Coming up next, Steve Harvin and Jeff Schwartz, There's good
reason why we talk a lot of NFL, Jeff, and

(57:44):
that is that is a sport very much on the
up swing. It seems like a continuous up swing that
cannot be said of our other major team sports. We
talk about what has been a very forgettable regular season
so far for the n b A. And now we
start a new baseball season. And I say start because

(58:06):
teams are about thirty two games in right now, which
would have been over the halfway point of a year
ago in a sixty game season. Here we're staring at
another hundred and thirty games to go. It's been a
really bizarre season. We had our fourth no hitter yesterday.
Four no hitters. The most no hitters ever in the
season is seven. We've had four and we're only one

(58:29):
fifth of the way through the season. So and then
you say, well, why do we have so many no hitters? Well,
there's multiple reasons for it. One, strikeout rates are an
all time high. Batting averages have absolutely plummeted across the board.
You have pitchers that so rarely throw complete games that
when they suddenly have the opportunity to throw a hundred

(58:53):
pitches or hundred plus throw no hitter, there's gas in
the tank because they haven't been burned up in their
previous stars. Um, So, I mean there's a reason for that.
I was just reminded William Mays just celebrated his ninetieth birthday,
and as a Giants fanue you know all about say, hey,
William Mays. Who, By the way, if you're asking me,

(59:16):
as I think myself a baseball historian, when we talk
about Babe Ruth being the greatest player, that's because he
was so unique with his pitching prowess before he became
the greatest power hitter of all time. But if you
talk in terms of the best five tool player in
the history of baseball, there's only one, and that's Willie Mays.
In fact, you know, Mike Trouts won three m vps

(59:39):
despite the fact that the Angels have never won a
playoff game since he's been with the Angels because of
the war stat, right, I mean that war stat has
really worked in the favor of Mike Trout. Well, there
was no war step back in William Mays's day, but
they've done it retroactively. The fact is is that William
Mays led baseball in war ten times. He only won

(59:59):
two mv P awards, But if he were under the
same guidelines that Trout is today, William Mays would have
won at least eight Most Valuable Player awards. He led
the league in home runs four times. He also led
the league in stolen basis four times. There was nothing
like May's I mean, he was by far the best

(01:00:19):
defensive outfielder major League baseball. So when you're talking about
the greatest all around player in the history of the game,
there is only one, and his name is Willie Mays.
But you know, Watson, the highlights and everything else. You
have to view generations like players, like I said, in

(01:00:40):
the generation they played it in my opinion, right, Like
it's hard to say, well, this player couldn't play now,
or we're gonna use a war staff for him, Like
the game would have been played differently, possibly in William
Mays era if they had advanced analytics, right you played,
you might have played the game differently. Um, you know,
guys now try to hit home runs or strike out,
Like those are two things that happened, right, Like as

(01:01:00):
a home run is more valuable than maybe a single is.
In his day, it was just get on base, right,
just hit the ball, hit a single, hit it up.
It's not that well. Also home runs, well I know that,
but I'm saying, like you know, the the idea, it's
just a different way that that era play the game
they play now. So you can't no, no, no, you
in those days, singles hitters hit singles, doubles, hitters hit doubles,

(01:01:22):
home run hitters hit home runs. Now everybody's trying to
hit a home right. But so that's my point, right,
Like you can't judge that era on the way we
judge this era. And so that is. It's one thing
that bothers me about baseball is that it's the only
sport we compare eras in ludicrous Waite like, we don't
talk about Pat Mahomes will be like Pat Mahmes and

(01:01:43):
Auto Graham in the same sentence, right, But but in
baseball we're like, oh, yeah, it's a it's a third
no hitter. It's same as what Babe Ruth did that.
You're like, what do you talk? Why are we talking
about someone in the nineteen twenties, Like I just so
I think they don't like the show. Hey O, Tony,
Babe Ruth. They have the split screen now constantly with
Otani and Ruth. How about we just enjoy Otani for
what he is, which is an incredible baseball player, right

(01:02:05):
the picture and and and a hitter. Um and by
the way, he's like being outdone by another players team,
which is incredible. Um. But look that that's only about basebook.
I am not like a compare errors person, like I
don't like I don't have to say that Williams is
the greatest base like in my in my lifetime, Barry
Bonds the best play I've ever seen. And that's kind

(01:02:26):
of like the way I look at it, like I can.
I can enjoy watching William Mays highlights. I obviously know
the history of the game, history of all these games,
but like to me, I don't have to say this
player was the best I've ever seen who I never
saw play like that. Just seems he's difference and a
much better. Bonds had no arm, to see, that was
the thing Bonds could field. He was an eight time
Gold Glover, but he played the left field. He wasn't

(01:02:46):
a center fielder, and that's the weakest getting you know, spot,
because he had no arm. Now, that was the one
thing missing from the very bond Art Brier Bonds arsenal.
As far as his hitting, well, it speaks for itself
to me. But to me, I mean when you see
one striker game he hit that for a home run,
like that's pretty impressive. You know, if you're up to
that four times and you get walked into the walk

(01:03:07):
three times away. I love how you, as a Giants fan,
completely dismiss him, juicing out of his gourd between what
you don't of course, well there's a reason, but no, no,
no, no no, no, Look, Barry Bonds was a phenomenal player.
He didn't need any He had four hundred homewards and
four steals before he took. And the reason he got
he got perturbed because in when he was the best

(01:03:28):
player in baseball, all the spotlight one on McGuire and Sosa,
and he's like, what the hell is going on? You?
You are preaching to a guy who routinely talks about
this on Twitter, like my favorite something to talk about
non football subject. He nine, he was hurt. He came
back at two thousand. But what's wild is he only
hit over fifty home runs the one year he hit
seventy three like he He actually didn't even hit like
a massive amount of homeworn like Sosa McGuire did in

(01:03:50):
multiple years in a row. He just ha that that
four or five year period when he was out of
his money, he got. He got intentionally. He got walked.
When you're two hundred and thirty two times, like if
he didn't like if he didn't if he said, if
he never swung the bat, he would have been his
on base Percidge would have been like four one year.
Although I love stupid numbers, I really do. I I

(01:04:10):
always love being a numbers guy. In sport. It doesn't
matter what the sport is. I sometimes I sit down
and look at Wilt Chamberlain's numbers back in the day,
not only the fact that he wants average fifty points
a game for an entire season, but the fact that
that season he only played, he only missed eight minutes.
He played the complete game seventy nine out of eighty

(01:04:31):
times that year, every minute of every game. Never pulled
him out of the game. And my ever favorite wild
stead is he never fouled out of a game in
his entire career. I love never, not once. Never. I
just sent you the videos at the twelve minute video
that have Barry Bonds. Um if he never used a
baseball bat, what would like his stats be. I was,

(01:04:56):
I was at a pottery game against the Giants at
uh I was, and I was seated down the right
field line. Barry Bonds hit a ball so hard. You know, No,
normally you have an arc to a home run. This
was a line shot that when it cleared the right
field wall was trajecting way up like this thing was
a missile. I could literally hear the ball whistling by

(01:05:20):
my head, that's how hard he hit it back in
the day. We're gonna get to more of this on
the other side. See now, we're having some fun talking
a little baseball right now. But first, David Gascon has
re entered the scene. David, my my favorite Barry Bonds
moment Game seven NLCS when he couldn't throw out Sid
Bream from shallow left field. Hall of Famer right there,

(01:05:44):
zero m no arm, no arm. Sorry there. You can't
be a five to a player if you have no arm. Yes,
that's correct. Yankees and Nashvills. Guys underway in the fourth inning.
One one is a score Cardinals and Rockies. Right now,
it's nine to five. In the sixth inning, Paul Goldschmidt
three for three, a homer driven in three. He scored

(01:06:05):
three times. Cuppies and Pirates to to San Francisco and
San Diego and FS one. There's no score just yet,
Oakland leading Tampa to nothing in that affair, Steve, I
know you love numbers. How about this. Jeff Carter played
for Los Angeles Kings. I'll bring a couple of Stanley
Cups to l a UM. In forty games this season,
he had eight goals. He's played thirteen plus games right now,

(01:06:30):
with Pittsburgh. Do you know how many goals he has
right now? Don't tell me he has closed to eight?
How many he has? Nine? What? Nine and thirteen games? Yeah,
he just scored. He just scored again for Pittsburgh today.
They lead Buffalo one to nothing right now in the
second period. Nine goals and thirdteen plus games, Rangers one
nothing at Boston over the bees. Uh. And one quick

(01:06:54):
note college basketball guys auction time Michael Jordan. A game
War in Jersey by him from the eighty two eighty
three seasons sold today for one point three eight million dollars.
Some coin man. You know you mentioned the Kings. I
know you're a big hockey guy, and you know, one
of my big thrills, seriously of my broadcasting career was
to actually be on the ice interviewing players of the

(01:07:17):
Kings in both team when they won. There's two Stanley
Cups and they haven't won a playoff series since. They've
only been in the playoffs twice, swept by San Jose,
and they're they're beginning. Who who's left? I mean, Copts
left Brown and Quick Drew Daddy, which is what Drew Daddy.
But the odd thing is is that Drew or not Drew, Daddy,

(01:07:40):
Copitar Brown and Quick. Those three guys not drafted by
Dean Lombardi. They were all drafted by Dave Taylor. Yeah,
nobody talks about that. So are they in the Mass
Mutual or like the Texico Division or the Mobilesion. They
were in the old school Smithe Division. Yeah, they still

(01:08:04):
have that banner for the only division title they ever won.
It's so weird. You wan two Stanley Cups. One time
they were at eight seed the other time. I think
they were a six seed when they won their two Cups.
They've only won one division title. Seems weird to have
that one division title banner when he got to Stanley
Cup banners, Come on, take that thing. So they've never

(01:08:24):
they've they've they've won the top twice. I know, I was,
I was, I was in New York. And then they
when they're playing the Rangers, Um, they were one division
one time in their entire history and Stanley Cups. Yeah,
that's it. That feels like almost time at number. It's
a very impossible thing to say about a winner of
any championship, But what is that the division they played
in back in the day. Jeff was filled with the

(01:08:46):
Edmonton Oilers the Calgary Flames, who continuously went to deep
runs and got to the Clarence Campbell Conference Finals, got
to the Stanley Cup Final. Like those two teams were dominant.
Vancouver was obviously good at as well, so the Kings
were left trying to pick up the second or or
third season. But David, you have to concede as a
hockey guy, this is the thing, Jeff. We know the

(01:09:09):
intensity always goes up in the playoffs and we get
upset playoff winners and sports all the time, But in hockey,
it's not even the same sports. I mean, there are
teams built for playoff hockey, as the King's were during
that it was really a three year run because they
got to the conference finals in between the two Cups victories. Um,
but that team was a playoff hockey team. They weren't

(01:09:29):
a regular season. It's all about your goalie to right
and quickly he helps always help a goal in the playoffs,
and it's like a starting picture in Major League. I
mean the Nationals a couple of years ago when they
won it was Scherzer and you in Strasburg, and they
were dominant and they had the worst bullpen in the
major leagues that season, and it didn't matter because those
two guys were horses. I'll give you guys a score.

(01:09:51):
Up did here Giants three Padre. I'm for Brandon Crawford.
I'm gonna go vomit right now. Yeah, well, okay, Brandon,
it was forty seven in this year. I can't believe
he's sitting like a team of destiny. I don't know.
Gabe Kapler actually spent my high school by games. Let's
slow down here on a second. Here, Gabe Kapler went

(01:10:12):
to my high school, Tapped High, oh in the valley. Yes,
there's a lot of that. My high schools produced some
big names. Kevin Kennedy, former major league manager KK And
are there tafty? They sure, tafty. I mean my high school,
My high school is uh pretty well renowned for the celebrities.

(01:10:33):
You came from a very prominent high school. You have
a lot of Hollywood stars, right yeah, not sports stars, Hollywood. Yes,
all right, David, thank you very much. All right, tall,
little baseball here. We're all excited about all the baseball,
and you're very excited with your giants right now. So

(01:10:54):
I mean, just just to sort of follow it, up
here and why I brought up Willie Mays as they
show a branded baseball that some people are missing. And
you know the thing about analytics, and this holds true
in football. You know how we we go through trends
in football, So the offense sort of dictates the trend
and then eventually the defenses figure it out. So then

(01:11:16):
you got to do something else. Once the defenses figure
out what the offenses are doing, then you've got to
come up with something new. And I feel like in
baseball right now, they're catching up to some of the
analytics because it's not adding up. One of the reasons
that they were swinging for the fences was to score
more runs, right, a little more excitement and long ball
and everything else. Well, guess what they've caught up to it.

(01:11:39):
Batting averages have absolutely plummeted in baseball. There's a lot
of theories about the ball itself and everything else, but
we are seeing now a level of pitching dominance that
we haven't seen in baseball in a long long time.
And I just wonder if we're gonna see a bit
of an adjustment as far as hitting strategy is concerned.

(01:12:02):
Instead of swinging for the fences. Maybe we're going to
get back to the idea of manufacturing runs, getting runners on,
stealing bases, moving orlabor is because the idea is to
hold the attention by scoring runs. And when you stop
scoring runs, people stop watching and you've got to make adjustments.
So I'm anxious to see if baseball will do just that. Well,

(01:12:24):
what's interesting about picture duels and I go at a
picture in high school? I love I love I love
short games, I love pictures duels is the game is
much shorter. People can play about game length, well, a
three or two games. That's why I love watching the
Giants during their heyday. They played but three or two
games every day, games over two minutes and in two
hours and ten minutes. Like that, to me is much
more fun than watching bullpen games. We're in the fifth inning,

(01:12:46):
you have a new a new guy in every three batters,
which is what the rule is now. Um I I
would much prefer a pitching matchup over a game that's
you know, eleven and ten. It takes four hours. I
don't know. A baseball feels the same way. And but
isn't that that isn't that better? Baseball? Three to two?
Two hours fifteen minutes. Here here, here's the problem that Jeff,
You're right, theoretically, if it was actually shorter, the average

(01:13:09):
game last year in was three hours and seven minutes.
That was an all time record. I so far in
one the average game is three hours and seven minutes.
It hasn't changed. So you're getting you're getting less scoring,
less hitting, and yet the games are still the same length.
They are painful to watch. There's so boring. But but Steve,

(01:13:33):
I thought about ways because I do agree with you,
especially like I said, like bullpen games, to me, it's
like they take, they take forever. But you know, there's
no great solution unless you shorten the game up right,
unless you make it seven eggs. Like I just think
baseball has to embrace what they are and try to
accentuate the positives in the game and and essentially the

(01:13:54):
players you have, in the personalities you have. I just
I think that there's not much more you can do
to make the shorter unless you make drastic changes um
to the entire game. And I think the one one
change I saw was independently this year is moving the
mound back of foot. I mean again, more hitting is great.
I guess, but the game's take even longer. Like to me,

(01:14:15):
they just have to accept what they are and try
to create buzz off that there are superstars. I mean,
they should be marking the heck of the Shoheo Tani.
I mean a guy who pitches as well as he
does his fast, he throws and also hits bombs, like
you should be out there trying to get this guy
in from every camera possible. That I don't know that
there has to be a personality aspect why they were

(01:14:36):
pumping up Fernando touched each your because he seemed to
be the company baggage. But he's not producing on the
field right now. And you know, Mike Trout doesn't want
to do much media and and year, and part of
it too is that he wasn't four week ago. And
I think I think part of it too is that.
And something in the NBA is dealing with is we

(01:14:57):
watch because of villains, Right, like the NFL, everyone roots
against Tom Brady, right, you root against him. So if
you're watch a Super Bowl and you're not a fan
of the Chiefs or the Bucks, you're rooting against Tom Brady. Right.
You were tuning in to say, hey, I hope that
guy loses in baseball as much as you want to.
Everyone wants to say I didn't care about the steroid area.
You loved it. You rooted against the guys who were
clearly on steroids. A lot of people did, right. I

(01:15:18):
don't want to see Barry Bonds hit Harmon, but you
probably enjoyed it when he actually did. But like, you know,
there was a reason to tune into the TV to
root against someone, to root against the Yankees, who who
haven't really you know, they've been better of late, but
they're up and down this year. They're just excuse me,
there just isn't those villains I think in those sports anymore. Like,
who are you tuning into in baseball? That's a villain?

(01:15:40):
I mean the Astros. I guess that that's who they are.
But that's but but like again, like that's of their
own doing, almost right, it's not really like and I
think Rob Manford everyone is more upset at him than
Astros were always the villains, right, The Yankees were always
I mean when Steinbrenner was the Yankees. They will exactly
because they're not relevant anymore. They're not winning anything, by
the way, just for the worker. We mentioned the average

(01:16:02):
major League baseball game this year, just like last year,
three hours and seven minutes. The year that Jackie Robinson
broke in with the Brooklyn Dodgers seven the average major
League Baseball game for that season two hours and eleven minutes.
That was the average because there was no there was
there was, Because there was there was, Probably guys are
swinging a little bit more right. There was no bullpen,

(01:16:23):
changes um, and you just you just played like there
was no probably stepping out of the box. Was you
get thrown out if you step out of the box
for too long? Exactly, That's what they used to do.
They have, in fact, don Dry still that one. It's
a guy named West Covington. He was a lieutended hitter.
He was one of those guys that were back in
and out and drystill standing on the mound. So finally
Covington gets in the box. He drilled him right in

(01:16:44):
the back, right, just bulls eye right in the guy's bag,
and he's like, I'm tired of watching you back out
of the box. Take your base. I mean that's old,
that's all right. So that stuff is that's what I
think baseball has to embrace. Who they are and try
to just be the best version of what they are,
and I think they're trying to do too many changes
too often. On the other side, I want to talk

(01:17:05):
about the big what if, what if? What if? And
it pertains to college football coming up next. Do you
think Gascon knows this song? Yeah? I don't know this song.
You know this song, Jeff, No, Yeah, this is It's

(01:17:28):
called the Hockey Song, also known as gets Somebody by
Warren Zevon and David Letterman. On the of the chorus,
is this like Tom Wilson's theme song? It's uh, it
just seemed apropos, but Dave's actually doing something else. He
can care less. He can't even enjoy the song as
soon as you try to engage him. Sam, you know
it's an easy media turnoff as the way he operates.

(01:17:51):
We love you Iowa, Sam, because well, you bring it
every day I try. And then, of course there is
David Gascon, who share the podcast airwaves with me and
Ben Malletty. The other day was great fun with the guys.
Lead a lap who maintains that Aaron Rodgers will continue
to be the quarterback of his favorite football team. He'll

(01:18:13):
let up there he'll let up there. He's very convinced
of that. Um, we're watching the FCF playoffs here. You
you mentioned you have wagered quite a bit on these fcfs,
did not, but I should have to state. So it's
interesting because North Dakota State has won eight of the
last nine championships. They're not even in the playoffs because, oh,

(01:18:33):
I don't know, their quarterback quit on They were in
the playoffs, gone gone there after winning out of nine
because their quarterback quit on them. I'll give you the
what if? Uh? You know, a year ago this time
when we were wondering if we'd have any sports at
all in there was a lot of noise about maybe
spring college football. How would that have worked out? Had

(01:18:57):
we had no college football in and the entire college
football season fcs ft BS had been moved to the spring.
How would that have worked for the NFL, the draft
and everything else? How many guys would have actually played?
We had obviously players like Jamaar Chase and others set
out the season, but how would that have played? As

(01:19:19):
far as the NFL is concerned. If all of college
football had been played in the spring, well, the NFL
would have tried is possible to keep the draft when
they when they had, but if too many guys ended
up playing, they have to to move it too, like
June or July, right, I mean it just that's what
they would have had to do. I think enough guys

(01:19:40):
would not have set out to where the NFL could
keep the draft when they did, I mean, guys will
still be playing right now. I guess that's you can
do that. I mean, you know that's what college baseball, right,
They draft the players and then they're still in finishing
up their season. Um, so you you can do that,
but then you worry about injuries of course, right, especially
in a in a very um in a very violent
game as as as football is. If you draft a

(01:20:03):
guy and then he gets hurt, so they would have
to move their draft. But that's unfair to the college
kids to have to then play a spring season, get drafted,
and then go right to the NFL. Your body, just
what we've seen the n b A. Your bodies are
going to break down even playing a spring a spring,
full spring schedule, which that has did not play a
full schedule, but a full twelve game schedule in the spring,

(01:20:23):
then back in September would have led to a lot
of injuries for culturtball players. Would you agree with me
that when you try to evaluate Tray Lance? And I am.
I refer again to my son Garrett, who watched really
intrigued by all this stuff, right, So he started watching
highlights at Trey Lance. He goes down, I'm watching Tray
Lance and every receiver Heat threw two was wide open.

(01:20:46):
And I said, well, that's because North Dakota State is
an FBS school that's playing an FCS schedule. I mean,
when you win the championship eight out of nine years,
your talent levels so superior to who you're playing every game.
So how exactly can you evaluate a player who's playing
for a team, not just the individual, but the team

(01:21:07):
is so much better talent wise than anybody they play.
You're just draft a guy based on traits. That's basically
what it is, right is, he has these traits, Um,
he has better traits than justin fields. I don't think
so I would have draft the fields, but I'm not
in charge of those decisions. Um. But um, I think
that's what you do. Right is, And we're seeing again

(01:21:28):
the high trade guys in the NFL. I've had a
lot of success over in their careers, where the guys
that are kind of the more traditional quarterbacks um have
not had as as much success. So you draft the
trade guy that that's a that's a big gamble when
you're giving up two future number ones, isn't it. I mean,
you talk about three ones for a kid who played

(01:21:50):
one year playing for an FCS school that has way
more talent than anybody they play. That's a roll of
the dice right there. Well, Jeff, I miss you man.
It was like, havn't you here? Was like I'm playing
you know, I'm gonna be

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05/08/2021 - FOX Sports Saturday with Steve Hartman and Geoff Schwartz

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