March 4, 2022 • 42 mins
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Jon Morosi rolls up his sleeves and heads to the negotiating table on the Fifth Hour. The longtime MLB writer and broadcaster visits with Ben to break down the Major League Baseball work stoppage. This is a CliffsNotes style guide to the labor dispute that is a must-listen for casual fans and hardcore observers alike. What are the sides haggling about? Is there common ground? The fellas discuss the rules changes coming, including banning the shift, pitch clocks, bigger bases, and much more. You can still see Jon on television via MLB Network and NHL Network covering baseball and hockey, hear him as a regular contributor to Fox Sports Radio and MLB Network Radio, follow Morosi on Twitter @JonMorosi , Follow Danny G Radio on Twitter @DannyGradio , Follow Big Ben on Twitter @BenMaller, and listen to the original "Ben Maller Show," Monday-Friday on 400+ terrestrial Fox Sports Radio affiliates, iHeart stream, and SiriusXM Radio channel 83, 2a-6a ET, 11p-3a PT!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We just can't seem to catch a break. Huh so
many rough fire seasons, but we made it through. And
now there's another risk. All that charred soil and burnt
vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know,
but you've got this too. And one way to get
this is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest
for the West, but with flood insurance you can rest
(00:22):
assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov
slash wild fires. We just can't seem to catch a break.
Huh so many rough fire seasons, but we made it through.
And now there's another risk. All that charred soil and
burnt vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know,
(00:43):
but you've got this too, And one way to get
this is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest
for the West, but with flood insurance, you can rest
assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov
slash wild fires. Look for your children's eyes and you
(01:03):
will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a
forest near you and start exploring a Discover the Forest
dot Org brought to you by the United States Forest
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He's the last remnants of the old Republic, a sole
(01:26):
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The clearing House of Hot takes break free for something special.
The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in
the air everywhere, and a very very happy Friday to you.
(01:51):
Do we have baseball ow hell now, but we do
have the Fifth Hour with Ben Mallor and Danny g
back for another weekend here and we're always debating the
the balance, But who do we have on on Friday?
We like to bring somebody in and chat. And so
(02:13):
this week, considering the big story that we've talked a
lot about on the Overnight Show has been the labor
dispute in Major League Baseball? Who better to comment on that.
That's someone that has covered baseball for years, that is
a friend of mine. I've known this guy for many,
many years. From MLB Network, and he's all over this
here on Fox Sports Radio all the time. You was
(02:36):
seeing him over the years as a reporter on baseball
coverage on Fox Sports and FS one, and he's multidimensional.
He covers hockey as well for the NHL Network. John
Paul Morossy better known it's just John Morrossi, and he
joins us now on the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller
(02:58):
and Danny g to talk all things baseball labor. What
we're gonna try to make this relatable in layman's terms,
because listen, I'm not that bright. So let's just get
into it right now, and we welcome to John to
the show. And the thing that has annoyed so many,
including yours truly who love baseball, John, is the delay
(03:22):
in getting the talk started. Now. I know they talked
a lot recently, but this should have been done months ago.
Why do you think both sides ended up procrastinating so
long to get the negotiation jump started. Well, Ben, it's
an excellent question, and it's been asked by people close
to the process that people who are fans of the
(03:43):
game and love the game, I think the reality is
that both sides perhaps needed the deadline, which effectively was
the deadline that we saw pass on Monday or Tuesday,
we should say, uh, to not sacrifice any regular season
games that perhaps we were not going to see a
(04:03):
real negotiation, a real grinding of those last details until
that arrived. So I do think if there is any
blame on that, it's somewhat universal to say that there
were aspects of this that could have been worked through earlier.
But I suppose the fact that deadlines tend to motivate
(04:24):
was perhaps evident by the reality that we didn't see
a deadline missed on Tuesday, and then a deal happened
the next day. This is I think on some level
we are all creatures of deadlines and routines, and in
this respect, and for better or worse, this is a
deadline sort of a game, whether it's a trade deadline
or arbitration salary figure deadline. Unfortunately, Ben, this was one
(04:46):
deadline that was missed, and I think the blame is
is shared around the game, and the reality is the
fans of those that are are suffering the most right now,
all right, So I have a theery John I was
on the radio, I do the Overnight show and whatnot
and we were on the air when all this was
was going down, and because they went past two in
the morning. And my theory is if they had just
(05:08):
stayed there until the sun came up, they if you
believe the reporting, they were close to a deal on
Monday night, and that's why they came back on Tuesday
to to finish it. My theory is they would have
gotten something done they the moment they left, both sides left.
Then then other people entered the conversation and were able
to change their mind. People go to bed, they wake up,
(05:30):
they have different feelings from the night before. Uh do
you agree with that? Do you think if they just
stayed a few more hours we would have had a
deal done Monday at six in the morning, they would
have gone out and had eggs and bacon and then
played baseball. It's possible, Ben, I suppose we'll never know.
A couple of points on that where I I believe
(05:50):
that that your argument is valid in a couple of
different ways. Number One, even on Tuesday morning, we heard
different different opinions between the union side and the league
side as exactly how close they were the night before.
Perhaps MLB thought they were close to a deal the
union seemed to think they were close enough to continue talking,
(06:12):
And those are two different, related but two different conceptions
of what was going on. I also think that to
your point, it's a correct point to make that both
sides of this are made up of rather diverse constituencies.
And on the MLB side, this is not always the
(06:32):
will and the best negotiating wisdom of Rob Manford or
Dan Haleum. It is what can I put out there
that two thirds of the owners will ratify. And on
the player side, it's the same thing between large salary
earning players and those that are earning closer to the minimum.
The analogy I've made is to a majority leader or
(06:54):
a minority leader of the Senate, and when a negotiation
is happening on legislation, the individual whims or beliefs of
that majority or minority leader might be X. But if
that set of values is not going to pass with
the three the two thirds majority of of your constituency
(07:15):
of your caucus, if you will to use this example,
it's not going to work. And so I really think Ben,
that this is a time where the beliefs along those
uh continuums of players and owners are quite diverse. There
are a lot of different interests that the Dodgers have
or the Yankees have that are fundamentally in perhaps diametrically
(07:37):
in opposition to the Rays, or the Pirates or the Royals.
It's just a different set of circumstances. And what I
think has happened right now, Ben, is there's been a
real difficulty in arriving at what that compromised point is
That the final point I'll make on this this particular
topic is it is disappointing, vexing, confusing, whatever word you'd
(07:57):
like to choose. That the issue that is probably the
most significant one right now, which the CBT threshold and
what that number is going to be, is in a
number and a behavior that is entirely within the purview
of the teams. Nothing in this CBA, Ben says, the
(08:19):
c b A threshold, or the CBT threshold rather is
two twenty million dollars, and everybody's got to spend that
amount of money. That's not at all what it says.
It just says that's the maximum that you could spend
before you begin incurring penalties, which is entirely different. And
so it really is up to to to the discretion
(08:40):
of each team if you want to spend up to
that level or not. And the irony is that you
consider the World Series two years ago, you had the Dodgers,
one of the richest teams in the game. We're pushed
to a sixth game and perhaps could have been a
seventh had a decision been different with respect the pitching
(09:00):
against the team with one of the lowest payrolls in
the sport. So I don't know, it's really you take
a take a step back and consider where the economics
of the game are on either side. It is to
me a little bit baffling that the number that's holding
everybody up is the number that affects half a dozen teams. Really,
and even then, is that the discretion ben of those teams.
(09:24):
No one is ever forcing a team to spend close
to at or above the CBT threshold. And yet it's
that number that seems to be the reason, the chief
reason at least why we don't have spring training open
right now. Well, and the other thing to John, just
to follow up and piggyback on, when you were saying
that I used to work in San Diego and the
Padres always kind of small market them I remember many
(09:47):
fire sales for the Padres back in the day when
I was getting started in radio, and they are. They're
a big swinger now. And there you know, to my knowledge,
the San Diego market has not changed. That there one
of the smaller market teams in baseball. And is it true, John,
that there's other teams that are upset with the Podres
(10:08):
because they went out and spent a gazillion dollars on
Manny Machado and a couple other guys, and so they've
got a payroll which is near the very top of
baseball and a market where you compare them to some
of these other teams like Pittsburgh and whatnot that have
have spent no money, like the Podres are upsetting the
Apple card, if you will. Is that a legitimate opinion.
(10:32):
I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that. And
then that's also not it's not a novel concept in
the game. He remember back to the stories of of
when the A Rod deal was signed with Texas back
in two thousands, uh and and there was the famous
press conference given by Sandy Alderson, who was obviously not
not the GM of the Rangers, outside the Winter Meetings
(10:55):
room where the deal was announced, and he was lamb
basting the deal of what a terrible deals was for
baseball because now it was going to create this inflation
effect on all the different wages and oh my gosh,
where are we going in the sports? So it's that
has been a part of the game for as long
as there has been a divergence in team spending. Happens,
(11:16):
probably since the dawn of free agency. So notable, yes, novel,
not at all, And and I do think it is
representative of I guess what I would say, Ben, is
one data point because you might have an agent who
says to another team just let's just say the Rockies,
(11:37):
for example, they're in the same division. Hey, listen, the
Padres are spending this amount of money. You had better
sign my player and and bring your money more in
line with what the Padres have and and the Rockies
GM could say, wait a minute, the Padres this past year,
we're a colossal failure. And teams that were paying significantly
less money like the Rays were a success. I don't
(12:00):
have to spend for your player at all. So I think, Benny,
it it's the system. It's it's interesting because we can
talk about the money. And obviously the money is huge
part of this at the top line, but at the
end of the day, for the vast majority of teams,
if you draft well and develop well, and keep your talent,
and build a good culture, and have a good manager
(12:21):
and and and check all these boxes, you're probably going
to be a successful, sustainable team, even if you're not
spending the most money. It's it's it certainly said. Yes,
you've got two teams that spent over the Wat Street
tax Dodgers pod Rays. One was a very good team
and one wasn't. So there are still multiple pathways to
(12:43):
getting this this success in baseball that every team is
is pursuing. And the point ben that I would make
that I think should guide everybody in this conversation. The
Players Union set out to say at the outset of this,
we want younger players to be paid more well. In
the last proposal, the minimum salary ran up more than
(13:05):
a hundred thousand dollars and and to the credit of
the union they should be congratulated for that number, and
also the creation of the pre arbitration bonus pool to
pay for the players who have not yet achieved salary
arbitration so that the players who have between two and
three years of service. That is new money, found money,
(13:25):
if you will, thirty million dollars just put into that
to incentivize great performances by superior young talent. Then to me,
that seems pretty darn good. Maybe you could argue that
that numbers should go up more. But because we've never
had it before and the union has put put press
for it and MLB put it in there, it's really
(13:48):
hard for us to know what the fair number is.
It's never existed. It's like putting something on the market
and saying, well, what what is this worth? Well, we've
never seen this before, so I don't know. I don't
know what it's worth. And I think that's part of
the issue that they're dealing with right now, is what
that number ought to be. I that certainly there are
still some distances been to be able to bridge. I'm
(14:09):
encouraged that on on this Thursday, there was a smaller
conversation reportedly between Dan Aileen and Bruce Meyer, the lead
negotiator for MLB, the negotiator for the union, Great small
group workshop. The ideas talk about a lot of different ideas,
and I am still local that there's enough sense here
on what disagreement could look like that there is no
(14:31):
reason for us to lose all of April. And I've
heard plenty of conversation about, well, the national TV contracts
they pick up in May and the owners will make
that they'll make more if or that they'll be coming
out just fine if they don't pay any wages in
April and then come back and May. That might be
true for the balance sheets of April and Mayo. But
(14:52):
whether it's the owners or the players. Ben, you you
host a show that talks about all different sports, you
understand this frankly better than I do, because I work
largely in baseball and hockey, so I've got by two
sports that I focus on. This is an issue where
if if baseball goes away for a while and and
and fans and people around the country find other things
(15:15):
to spend their summer evenings doing, they might not come back,
and then what you gained with some pyric victory in
April or May of evaporates because the overball business is
not growing in the fashion that you expected to grow.
And so Ben, as much as there's a lot of
points being scored on either side, Frankly, both camps have
(15:38):
to take a step back, listen to what the people
who are actually paying the tickets have to say for
them for themselves, and realize that if we don't get
this game back on the field and improve the quality
of the product, with the with the pace of play,
a lot of other issues, if we can't get to
a point where we can talk about these things, the
(15:59):
business is going to shrink. It will become continually less relevant,
not irrelevant, but just less relevant, which is which is
to me concerning I love the game, The game is
my livelihood. It matters a ton to me. We have
to find a way to get it back on the
field and talk about the things that will actually resonate
(16:19):
with the people who buy the tickets, and then that
will hopefully allow the national path time to get to
a better place. We just can't seem to catch a break. Huh.
So many rough fire seasons, but we made it through.
And now there's another risk. All that charred soil and
burnt vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know,
but you've got this too. And one way to get
(16:41):
this is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest
for the West. But with flood insurance, you can rest
assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov
slash wildfires. Look to your children's eyes to see the
true magic of a full West. It's a storybook world
(17:02):
for them. You look and see a tree. They see
the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to
the sky. They see treasure in pebbles, They see a
windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you.
They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest
near you and start exploring and discover the forest. Dot
(17:22):
org brought to you by the United States Forest Service
and the AD Council. If I could be you and
you could be me for just one hour, if you
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We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling
(17:43):
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you by the AD Council. Welcome out in machines, all right, So, John,
you know, I've known you for a long time. I
love baseball as well, and I you talk about everything
on the Overnight Show. And so I'm at the point
now when it comes to the fan issue where I
(18:05):
am convinced both the owners and players they both use
the fans as ponds, but I don't think they truly
either side is really concerned about the fan. I think
it's just rhetoric that they toss out and it's a
good talking point. People like it. But I'll tell you
what's gonna happen, John, What's gonna happen is people are
just they're not gonna worry about baseball. They're gonna do
(18:26):
other things. We saw this a couple of years ago
when the pandemic started and there was no sports for
a hundred days. People just, you know, they find Netflix
or whatever else to watch. And then if sports come back,
I think this is this is the argument that the
owners and the players both both will make that if
it's July and it's eighty degrees and you want to
take your family out to a game, and you know
(18:46):
the weather is wonderful and you want entertainment, it's an
experience you're gonna do it. And so I'm convinced both
sides know that whenever they get a deal done, assuming
there's baseball, they'll be they'll be out there. But in
terms of relevance, yeah, I mean pretty much all we
do in sports radio these days is obsessed about different
free agents in the NFL. That's pretty much what we do.
(19:08):
And it's it's very frustrating, uh, you know from that perspective,
because you know everyone's talking about the fans, both Tony
Clark and uh and also Rob Manford all these other
guys that have issue statements is all about the fans.
This that you'll listen. Let's be honest here, John, just
like you and I, if we're in the negotiation, you're
looking at the players, are looking at for the players,
(19:28):
the owners are looking at for the owners, and you
know the fans are somewhere down the list here. And
so I every time I hear the fans this the
fans lad from owners and players, I kind of cringe because,
being completely transparent, that's not the case. You you buy
that or you don't buy that. Well, I mean been
on some level they have to on a macro basis,
(19:50):
listen to the fans because they're their customers and whether
or not they whether or not they are truly considering
the fans wishes and and I believe certainly with MLBS
moved to the change pace of play, eliminate the shift,
universal d H, some other things that fans want. I
(20:10):
do believe they are listening to the fans in that
respect and want to change and improve the game because
all these the rule change has been. When you consider
where we're at with with a lot of different sports,
rule changes happened quite frequently all the time. In fact,
for with baseball that there is this retstance changed the
game too much because it is sort of this high
(20:32):
bound traditionalist sport. And look around. I mean, you know
what again better than I do. When you consider the
popularity of the NFL, the popularity of the NBA. Uh
certainly you look at soccer. Soccer is in a very
different place now that it was when when best when
baseball was last on strike. So there is a tremendous
(20:54):
competition for the hearts and minds of of people and
and certainly young people. And if you cannot find a
way to develop a passionate following among younger people to
watch the game, for three hours, three and a half hours.
It's a long time. It's a long time for it.
Don't to sit and watch one thing. And so if
(21:15):
we are going to grow the game, as we always
talk about, so the the zeit guys were talking to
hear about growth, mindset, growth, business probably going to grow
the business, how are we going to make families and
young people believe that a baseball game traffic, paying for
the tickets, paying for the concessions, whatever it is, it
is worth our time and money. And if your point been,
(21:37):
a lot of people in the last two years have
reevaluated what that time and money ought to go to.
And there's been a lot of soul searching for all
the different reasons, and that that process is very much ongoing,
and I would say been the worst thing that you
can do. The worst thing that you can do is
remove your your conversation piece, your sports, your brand from
(22:02):
shows like yours. And if you take baseball off the airwaves,
you take baseball out of circulation for a while. Consumer
preferences and what kids are into and what all people
are into change so quickly. Now, Ben, and we know
this that if you take yourself out of circulation for
a period of time. There's no guarantee that you're ever
going to get back in the rotation of of the
(22:23):
family's mindset in Illinois, in Michigan, in Nebraska, in Texas,
in California, wherever it might be, they'll move on. And
I think expecting America to have routines like America has
always had routines is not really a winning strategy at
this point in time. You have to stay above and
(22:44):
in the head of the curve and anticipate, and you
cannot do those things if your product is not being
played at a given time. So how much money we
talked about. I read that the salaries per game that
has been canceled. I read a number. It was like
twenty million dollars per day. If you know all the
games are canceled, which we've already seen some in the
(23:04):
teams are gonna lose like a hundred thousand per per
home game in in revenue. Do those numbers sound right?
Is that? Does that sound like a ball that seems
loaded me on both sides? Is that is that where
we are? And that is that we've heard? There's differing estimates,
I think based on market size, based on team uh,
depending on circumstances. Again obviously, the the national TV revenues
(23:27):
for baseball, and that's that's real where that that really
starts to kick in, and may there are some make
goods that exist for the local regional television piece that
only really start to become a factor if you have
missed twenty games or more. So, those things are admittedly
a bit down the line, but it's not forever. And oh,
by the way, April fifteen is Jackie Robinson Day, anniversary
(23:52):
of his debut, and that to me is as sacred
of an occasion as we have, certainly in baseball, definitely
in spot It's and arguably in our country when you
think about what that day means, uh in American history.
And so that is to me one of the most
hallowed days that we have to observe in our in
our corner of the sports universe. And and darn it
(24:13):
if we cannot find a way to get major league
games played on the seventy five anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut,
and shame on all of us, really, I mean, there's
there's no there is no credible excuse for that for anybody.
It's just it's it's unforgivable from what I said. If
that's if that's the outcome, so uh, and if that's
(24:35):
going to be the outcome. To avoid that, we've got
to get a deal about the next ten days, which,
by the way, they can do the number. I'll repeat.
The number that is the most significant impediment here is
the competitive Palace tax special, which is an entirely discretionary
amount of spending on a per team basis. If you
say a team, I don't really want it to be
(24:57):
too thirty eight, I wanted to be too twenty, Okay,
then don't spend more than two twenty. You have that
right as a team. And and we have seen many
many times that teams that spend more money don't always
benefit from those expenditures. And and so I just I am,
I am a little bit just dumbfounded, frankly as to
(25:18):
why that number is the big issue here when it
is one that a team like Tampa Bay or Pittsburgh
or Kansas City will never even come close to. So
what's the difference to them? I just I just I
don't I do not get the reluctance of of of
the teams, frankly to move that number up a little bit,
(25:39):
because they that's not the concern of a majority of
the teams on a functional basis, right, I just look
at the beator of them. It is not a number
that is entirely relevant to that many teams. Well, and
I don't like, you know, my head is spinning by
all the numbers of these negotiations and all the you know,
I'm on a guy, but the I'm generally against salary
(26:03):
caps and salary floors. But that really sounds like the
issue that the players they're big complaint. They want a
salary floor in here where every team has to spend
X number of dollars. But as we have seen John
over the last ten years fifteen years in baseball, the owners,
uh to their credit, are tremendous Robbert Barons of baseball.
(26:24):
They they have figured out how to bend whatever rules
they have. When you're talking about Tampa Bay, which is
like a Frankenstein's Lab for baseball with what they've been
able to do with finding players off the scrap heep
and all that. So whatever rules are in place, they're
just gonna go out and hire a new crop of
IVY League guys to come in or wherever they find
(26:45):
the next crop of GMS and they'll just bend the rules.
But it's it's like the middle class in baseball just
doesn't exist, and is there really any way to get
back to that. You either have guys that are making,
by base ball standards, not a lot of money, and
then all of a sudden they get two hundred, three
hundred million dollar contracts. But there's there's no middle ground.
(27:07):
It's not like you don't go from zero to a
hundred in real life. You normally have to stop somewhere
in the middle and then go all the way up.
But in baseball, it's either you're at the very bottom
or you're at the very top. And you're not in
the middle. And I frankly, John, maybe you're you're smarter
than me. I don't know how you get that middle
class at baseball backed. I don't see a path to that.
(27:28):
Is there a path to that? Well, a couple of things.
I mean, number one, you look at the NLCS this
past year, Braves Dodgers, the team with low payroll one Houston.
They had the richest player, Rylander was not was not
pitching because he's hurt. They weren't able to resign Garritt Cole,
George Springer left and they got to the World Series again.
(27:48):
So it's it's an interesting dichotomy there. And I should
point out before I go any further, the players Briefly
the notion of a salary floor was on the table,
but then it was discard, So the players are not
even asking for that anymore either. So there is no
there is no minimum to hit that is that is
not part of the conversation right now. It's just the maximum.
(28:10):
And even then it's it's it's not a hard it's
not a salary cap at all. It's not a hard cap.
It's something that you can go over if you want to.
You just have to pay a tax on it. That's
that's all that means. So I think the Braves have
been a team has been successful while spending somewhere in
the middle range. Obviously, the Dodgers, they don't win the
World Series without Mookie Betts, and he's someone that their
(28:33):
market size allowed them to sign to a multi year
deal and keep long term. Now, of course the Dodgers
they lost Corey Seeger. They can't even spend on everybody,
and in fact, someone argue it's not even always in
your best interest to spend on the biggest superstar. Look
at the free agent contracts of for example, Robinson Canoe,
(28:54):
Albert Pools, who the biggest contracts ever signed. Uh, they
have not necessarily age shas well towards the back end
of those deals. And then, to me, this is a
little bit of a granular point in baseball, but I'll
make it because I think it's important. The players ought
to be thrilled with the reality that there is no
longer direct draft pick compensation tied to free agent signings.
(29:17):
Once upon a time as recently as for example, last offseason,
I would be talking to team executives and say, listen,
this player is a good fit for you, why don't
you sign him? And the answer would beat John off
the record. I can't give up the draft pick because
the draft is the most efficient way that I can
add talent to my organization. And I'm not going to
give up that ability to sign a player to a
(29:39):
multi year deal into his thirties when I'm not entirely
sure if he's gonna be worth that money the longer
e play. But I might be willing to take that
risk if I didn't also have to give up a
draft pick that drafted compensation Ben is now gone. That
is a huge deal on a level that I wonder
if the players fully appreciate how significant that victory is
(30:01):
for them in this negotiation. I think that part of
this Ben has not been talked about nearly enough when
you consider how important that's going to be in the
free agent market. Well, yeah, yeah, I haven't really read
much about it. Look for your children's eyes to see
the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world
for them. You look and see a tree, They see
(30:22):
the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to
the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a
windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you.
They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest
near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot
Org brought to you by the United States Forest Service
(30:42):
and the Council. What grows in the forest trees? Sure
know what else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our
sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because
when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we
reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.
(31:04):
Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover
the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the AD Council. What grows in
the forest trees? Sure you know what else grows in
the forest. Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our
family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this
(31:28):
and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The
forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near
you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org
brought to you by the United States Forest Service and
the AD Council. But let me ask you this, Jane.
As far as the rules changes, I've talked to a number.
(31:48):
I want to talk about the shift here, because there's
always a pet people mind. You talk to some of
these old time guys that played in the seventies and
the eighties back in the day, and they will tell
you they know how to beat the shift. It's called
choking up on the bat and you're hitting the ball
the other way. The players are so stubborn that the
owners have to put the band of the shift and
(32:09):
they have to implement an actual rule because the players
are unable to adapt that That to me is very
frustrating when just like basic baseball, just choke up on
the bat, hit the ball the other way, get a
base it They're giving you the entire side of the field.
It's very frustrating they have to do that. And the
pitch clock, Uh, that's also the's like certain pictures just
(32:32):
take forever. And in baseball has always prided itself on
not having a clock, this, that and the other thing. Uh.
Those two things. I don't think the base thing, the
oversized base thing, is that that big a deal. But
the banning of the shift seems unnecessary. And and the
pitch clock is that is that going to go over
like a lead balloon? John? First of all, I agree
(32:54):
with you on the on the shifting aspect. We shouldn't
have to do it, but here we are. Uh. And
I would point out too, this is the thing, Ben
that I I just shake my head at every single year.
You look at the way the playoffs playoff. Look at
the lou of the Nationals. Okay, when they won the
World Series. Who was the player that the Dodgers couldn't
(33:16):
get out and that even the Astros couldn't get out
that year? Howie Kendrick. One of the oldest players in
that World Series, someone who didn't really ever have like
a forty homer season, but he put the ball in play,
had good at bats with short, simple approaches late in
the game, and Howie Kendricks was the reason why the
Nationals won the World Series. And every year, every winter bend,
(33:40):
there are players on the open market like Howie Kendricks,
and they never get the respect they deserve because the
skill of putting the ball in play, moving runners, having
a professional late, late inning at bat is totally forgotten
about until it comes time to decide the championship and
everybody says, you know what, why fill in the blank?
(34:02):
How many times do we read the obituary of a
particular team and particular series. Oh my gosh, we struck
out too much. We couldn't catch up to their Their
relief pitchers were throwing up ninety nine and we just
couldn't catch up. We struck out too much. But yeah, jeez,
you couldn't signed Howie Kendrick ten months ago for a
song and you didn't do it. What were you doing
(34:22):
back then? It's not like Howie Kendrick won the World
Series and the World Series was was in like a
black and white movie reel from that was like two
years ago. And I think teams just don't they don't watch.
They just don't watch the games. You know, they don't watch.
When when the Royals won the World Series seven years ago,
putting the ball and play l city Is Escobar, uh
(34:45):
it players like him, Eric Osmer, these guys were not
like fifty homer players and they were winning players. Okay,
they won, and I just I it baffles me every
year we act like, oh my gosh, I've never seen
this before. Yeah, yeah you did. It was like in
the Work Series two years ago. Howie Kendrick, Alfieus Escobar,
Eric Cosmer, Lorenzo Caine. Players like that win you championships,
(35:08):
So go sign them. And they're not gonna cost you
fifty million bucks a year. So I I think I'm
with you on the frustration of the lack of an adjustment.
The pitch clock works, and part of the reason then
why it works is that you don't have to spend
a minute to shift somebody from one side of the
field to the other. Get the ball and go. Your
defense is more active, Uh throw all strikes. But again,
(35:32):
when when the whole focus is you gotta throw a
hunderd thirty five hour to get scouted now, and and
the ball is spraying all over the place because they
can't control it because they've been focused on just throwing
the ball to the radar gun for their whole lives. Yeah,
you get problems with command and they don't work as fast,
and you don't have a lot of Mark Burley's anymore unfortunately.
So it's just then it's it's funny to me because
(35:55):
a lot of these things were talking about. Now, this
is not like I'm not an analytical genius. I'm a
genius at all. I just watched the games and and
these are common sense things that that are there for
any of us that actually take the time to watch.
And I just think there's way way too many calculations,
and there's too much reliance on the numbers, not enough
(36:15):
reliance on observing the way the game is played and
and making your decisions based on that. I'm hoping that
the CB will represent some of these concerns and address
them and get better in players like Howie Kendrick respected
and paid what they deserve in the market. But there
are a lot of issues right now. Ben I think
we've we've touched on a lot of them over the
last half hour, but there are certainly other things that
(36:36):
still sought through here in the in the days of
weeks to come. Yeah. Absolutely, the PR battle is also
a big part of this, John, I know yet a
little little time left, so the PR battle is not
particularly great. Rob Manford did not have a good day
on Tuesday when he was smiling and chuckling and all that.
The The other part of this is the players and
social media. Now. I did a rant on my radio
(36:57):
show the other night about this. I there are many
people saying how rate this is now because we didn't
have Twitter and Instagram back the last time there was
that elongated work stoppage. But I say this is actually
bad for the players because there's many more players than owners, John,
and the chances that the players are going to be
united on social media and some of these guys aren't
gonna start snapping are very low. So I think this
(37:19):
will actually turn out to be a net negative for
the players. What say you, you know, it's a fair question. Uh,
I don't know, to be honest with you, where where
the um where the public opinion will come down? I
think that if if anything has been instructive to us
in recent years. I certainly just know it just from
my own experience reporting and and uh having to exist
(37:41):
in the social media sphere that typically you you you
don't often hear the concordance of agreement from everybody. It's
more often than the criticisms. So I would imagine that
most people involved in the process are hearing more negative
feedback than positive. We all want to see the game
on the field. It's not there, so we're frustrated. And
if we're gonna say anything to anybody, let's think about it.
(38:03):
We're not gonna say, hey, we we don't have baseball
right now, good job everyone. No, it's it's it's that's
not what anybody is saying right now. So I think
that the feedback universally to everybody is negative. The players
themselves are are perhaps a bit more accessible than the
owners in terms of their their public profile. And I
point this out to it, and I heard Tim Kirkson
(38:24):
talk about this recently on them we New We're Bradio.
I think it's a very good point. We don't really
hear as much from the owners themselves anymore. They are
not people who are frequently quoted and seeing again, maybe
they don't want to say the wrong thing and have
it live forever on social media whatever it might be.
But they've been very careful. We don't hear much from
(38:48):
them individually, and again that's their choice, but I think
it's a little harder maybe for the fan to understand
what the owner wants to do, what the plan is,
when they only hear from that person a time or
two a year. And I do think that that just
accountability availability that helps. And perhaps after this is done,
(39:11):
it will be important for the owners to get out
in front of this be out in front of their fans,
um be humble about things. The players have to be
humble about it too, I think, once this deal is
done and focus on how do we grow the game
at that point in time, once the games have started,
I don't think that if you pulled fifty thou fans
of Dodger Stadium, they're not gonna be talking about who
(39:32):
was right, who was wrong CVT. They don't care. They
just want to see the game back on the field,
and they want to see the people who are on
the field and managing the games. Front office folks. Owners
realize that this is a public trust. Realize that this
is not uh, this is not the most serious thing
happening in the world right now, clearly, and so we
have to have a certain humility about that and and
(39:54):
earn back the trust of the fans through word and deed,
and have that ethic whole fully carried the day going forward.
All Right, Yeah, that's ay, that is the great point.
We remember when I was a kid, we had bigger
than life owners that seem to always be quoted in
a newspaper. We don't have that. I I I don't
some of these owners. I don't even know who they are.
But we'll get you out of here on this, John
(40:16):
your crystal ball, the John Morosi crystal ball. Is this
a short term situation or are we gonna be talking
to you two months from now and there's still no baseball? Well,
certainly have baseball, I believe, ben By My hope is
by the early part of May at the latest. And
I really believe that that there is still a chance,
(40:37):
and I am an optimist in my core, there is
still a chance that we have baseball On Jackie Robinson
Day April. I'm gonna that will be my prayer, my
hope in the days I had my friend, and let's uh,
let's all work together towards that goal. Let's hope that
the negotiations progress. And so I'm gonna say April fifteenth
is the one that I've got circled for for a
positive reason for it to be Jackie Robinson day with baseball. Awesome.
(41:00):
Thank you, John Ben, my Brosure my friend. Keep up
all the group work that you do. I always enjoy
listening to you, especially when I'm out the West Coast.
I'll late you do a great job of keeping the
conversation going all through the night, keeping us going all
the time. Benny, So I always look catching up. We
just can't seem to catch a break. Huh. So many
rough fire seasons, but we made it through. And now
(41:21):
there's another risk. All that charred soil and burnt vegetation
can lead to floods and mud flow. I know, but
you've got this too, And one way to get this
is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest for
the West, but with flood insurance, you can rest assured
that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov.
(41:43):
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batteries only at O'Reilly Auto Parts. Alright Auto Parts. What
girls in the forest, our imagination and our family bonds.
The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest
near you and discover the forest dot org. Brought to
(42:26):
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD
Council
We just can't seem to catch a break. Huh so
many rough fire seasons, but we made it through. And
now there's another risk. All that charred soil and burnt
vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know,
but you've got this too. And one way to get
this is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest
for the West, but with flood insurance you can rest
(00:22):
assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov
slash wild fires. We just can't seem to catch a break.
Huh so many rough fire seasons, but we made it through.
And now there's another risk. All that charred soil and
burnt vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know,
(00:43):
but you've got this too, And one way to get
this is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest
for the West, but with flood insurance, you can rest
assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov
slash wild fires. Look for your children's eyes and you
(01:03):
will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a
forest near you and start exploring a Discover the Forest
dot Org brought to you by the United States Forest
Service and the AD Council. Boom boom. If you thought
four hours a day, minutes a week was enough, think again.
He's the last remnants of the old Republic, a sole
(01:26):
fashion of fairness. He treats crackheads in the ghetto gutter
the same as the rich pill poppers in the penthouse.
The clearing House of Hot takes break free for something special.
The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in
the air everywhere, and a very very happy Friday to you.
(01:51):
Do we have baseball ow hell now, but we do
have the Fifth Hour with Ben Mallor and Danny g
back for another weekend here and we're always debating the
the balance, But who do we have on on Friday?
We like to bring somebody in and chat. And so
(02:13):
this week, considering the big story that we've talked a
lot about on the Overnight Show has been the labor
dispute in Major League Baseball? Who better to comment on that.
That's someone that has covered baseball for years, that is
a friend of mine. I've known this guy for many,
many years. From MLB Network, and he's all over this
here on Fox Sports Radio all the time. You was
(02:36):
seeing him over the years as a reporter on baseball
coverage on Fox Sports and FS one, and he's multidimensional.
He covers hockey as well for the NHL Network. John
Paul Morossy better known it's just John Morrossi, and he
joins us now on the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller
(02:58):
and Danny g to talk all things baseball labor. What
we're gonna try to make this relatable in layman's terms,
because listen, I'm not that bright. So let's just get
into it right now, and we welcome to John to
the show. And the thing that has annoyed so many,
including yours truly who love baseball, John, is the delay
(03:22):
in getting the talk started. Now. I know they talked
a lot recently, but this should have been done months ago.
Why do you think both sides ended up procrastinating so
long to get the negotiation jump started. Well, Ben, it's
an excellent question, and it's been asked by people close
to the process that people who are fans of the
(03:43):
game and love the game, I think the reality is
that both sides perhaps needed the deadline, which effectively was
the deadline that we saw pass on Monday or Tuesday,
we should say, uh, to not sacrifice any regular season
games that perhaps we were not going to see a
(04:03):
real negotiation, a real grinding of those last details until
that arrived. So I do think if there is any
blame on that, it's somewhat universal to say that there
were aspects of this that could have been worked through earlier.
But I suppose the fact that deadlines tend to motivate
(04:24):
was perhaps evident by the reality that we didn't see
a deadline missed on Tuesday, and then a deal happened
the next day. This is I think on some level
we are all creatures of deadlines and routines, and in
this respect, and for better or worse, this is a
deadline sort of a game, whether it's a trade deadline
or arbitration salary figure deadline. Unfortunately, Ben, this was one
(04:46):
deadline that was missed, and I think the blame is
is shared around the game, and the reality is the
fans of those that are are suffering the most right now,
all right, So I have a theery John I was
on the radio, I do the Overnight show and whatnot
and we were on the air when all this was
was going down, and because they went past two in
the morning. And my theory is if they had just
(05:08):
stayed there until the sun came up, they if you
believe the reporting, they were close to a deal on
Monday night, and that's why they came back on Tuesday
to to finish it. My theory is they would have
gotten something done they the moment they left, both sides left.
Then then other people entered the conversation and were able
to change their mind. People go to bed, they wake up,
(05:30):
they have different feelings from the night before. Uh do
you agree with that? Do you think if they just
stayed a few more hours we would have had a
deal done Monday at six in the morning, they would
have gone out and had eggs and bacon and then
played baseball. It's possible, Ben, I suppose we'll never know.
A couple of points on that where I I believe
(05:50):
that that your argument is valid in a couple of
different ways. Number One, even on Tuesday morning, we heard
different different opinions between the union side and the league
side as exactly how close they were the night before.
Perhaps MLB thought they were close to a deal the
union seemed to think they were close enough to continue talking,
(06:12):
And those are two different, related but two different conceptions
of what was going on. I also think that to
your point, it's a correct point to make that both
sides of this are made up of rather diverse constituencies.
And on the MLB side, this is not always the
(06:32):
will and the best negotiating wisdom of Rob Manford or
Dan Haleum. It is what can I put out there
that two thirds of the owners will ratify. And on
the player side, it's the same thing between large salary
earning players and those that are earning closer to the minimum.
The analogy I've made is to a majority leader or
(06:54):
a minority leader of the Senate, and when a negotiation
is happening on legislation, the individual whims or beliefs of
that majority or minority leader might be X. But if
that set of values is not going to pass with
the three the two thirds majority of of your constituency
(07:15):
of your caucus, if you will to use this example,
it's not going to work. And so I really think Ben,
that this is a time where the beliefs along those
uh continuums of players and owners are quite diverse. There
are a lot of different interests that the Dodgers have
or the Yankees have that are fundamentally in perhaps diametrically
(07:37):
in opposition to the Rays, or the Pirates or the Royals.
It's just a different set of circumstances. And what I
think has happened right now, Ben, is there's been a
real difficulty in arriving at what that compromised point is
That the final point I'll make on this this particular
topic is it is disappointing, vexing, confusing, whatever word you'd
(07:57):
like to choose. That the issue that is probably the
most significant one right now, which the CBT threshold and
what that number is going to be, is in a
number and a behavior that is entirely within the purview
of the teams. Nothing in this CBA, Ben says, the
(08:19):
c b A threshold, or the CBT threshold rather is
two twenty million dollars, and everybody's got to spend that
amount of money. That's not at all what it says.
It just says that's the maximum that you could spend
before you begin incurring penalties, which is entirely different. And
so it really is up to to to the discretion
(08:40):
of each team if you want to spend up to
that level or not. And the irony is that you
consider the World Series two years ago, you had the Dodgers,
one of the richest teams in the game. We're pushed
to a sixth game and perhaps could have been a
seventh had a decision been different with respect the pitching
(09:00):
against the team with one of the lowest payrolls in
the sport. So I don't know, it's really you take
a take a step back and consider where the economics
of the game are on either side. It is to
me a little bit baffling that the number that's holding
everybody up is the number that affects half a dozen teams. Really,
and even then, is that the discretion ben of those teams.
(09:24):
No one is ever forcing a team to spend close
to at or above the CBT threshold. And yet it's
that number that seems to be the reason, the chief
reason at least why we don't have spring training open
right now. Well, and the other thing to John, just
to follow up and piggyback on, when you were saying
that I used to work in San Diego and the
Padres always kind of small market them I remember many
(09:47):
fire sales for the Padres back in the day when
I was getting started in radio, and they are. They're
a big swinger now. And there you know, to my knowledge,
the San Diego market has not changed. That there one
of the smaller market teams in baseball. And is it true, John,
that there's other teams that are upset with the Podres
(10:08):
because they went out and spent a gazillion dollars on
Manny Machado and a couple other guys, and so they've
got a payroll which is near the very top of
baseball and a market where you compare them to some
of these other teams like Pittsburgh and whatnot that have
have spent no money, like the Podres are upsetting the
Apple card, if you will. Is that a legitimate opinion.
(10:32):
I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that. And
then that's also not it's not a novel concept in
the game. He remember back to the stories of of
when the A Rod deal was signed with Texas back
in two thousands, uh and and there was the famous
press conference given by Sandy Alderson, who was obviously not
not the GM of the Rangers, outside the Winter Meetings
(10:55):
room where the deal was announced, and he was lamb
basting the deal of what a terrible deals was for
baseball because now it was going to create this inflation
effect on all the different wages and oh my gosh,
where are we going in the sports? So it's that
has been a part of the game for as long
as there has been a divergence in team spending. Happens,
(11:16):
probably since the dawn of free agency. So notable, yes, novel,
not at all, And and I do think it is
representative of I guess what I would say, Ben, is
one data point because you might have an agent who
says to another team just let's just say the Rockies,
(11:37):
for example, they're in the same division. Hey, listen, the
Padres are spending this amount of money. You had better
sign my player and and bring your money more in
line with what the Padres have and and the Rockies
GM could say, wait a minute, the Padres this past year,
we're a colossal failure. And teams that were paying significantly
less money like the Rays were a success. I don't
(12:00):
have to spend for your player at all. So I think, Benny,
it it's the system. It's it's interesting because we can
talk about the money. And obviously the money is huge
part of this at the top line, but at the
end of the day, for the vast majority of teams,
if you draft well and develop well, and keep your talent,
and build a good culture, and have a good manager
(12:21):
and and and check all these boxes, you're probably going
to be a successful, sustainable team, even if you're not
spending the most money. It's it's it certainly said. Yes,
you've got two teams that spent over the Wat Street
tax Dodgers pod Rays. One was a very good team
and one wasn't. So there are still multiple pathways to
(12:43):
getting this this success in baseball that every team is
is pursuing. And the point ben that I would make
that I think should guide everybody in this conversation. The
Players Union set out to say at the outset of this,
we want younger players to be paid more well. In
the last proposal, the minimum salary ran up more than
(13:05):
a hundred thousand dollars and and to the credit of
the union they should be congratulated for that number, and
also the creation of the pre arbitration bonus pool to
pay for the players who have not yet achieved salary
arbitration so that the players who have between two and
three years of service. That is new money, found money,
(13:25):
if you will, thirty million dollars just put into that
to incentivize great performances by superior young talent. Then to me,
that seems pretty darn good. Maybe you could argue that
that numbers should go up more. But because we've never
had it before and the union has put put press
for it and MLB put it in there, it's really
(13:48):
hard for us to know what the fair number is.
It's never existed. It's like putting something on the market
and saying, well, what what is this worth? Well, we've
never seen this before, so I don't know. I don't
know what it's worth. And I think that's part of
the issue that they're dealing with right now, is what
that number ought to be. I that certainly there are
still some distances been to be able to bridge. I'm
(14:09):
encouraged that on on this Thursday, there was a smaller
conversation reportedly between Dan Aileen and Bruce Meyer, the lead
negotiator for MLB, the negotiator for the union, Great small
group workshop. The ideas talk about a lot of different ideas,
and I am still local that there's enough sense here
on what disagreement could look like that there is no
(14:31):
reason for us to lose all of April. And I've
heard plenty of conversation about, well, the national TV contracts
they pick up in May and the owners will make
that they'll make more if or that they'll be coming
out just fine if they don't pay any wages in
April and then come back and May. That might be
true for the balance sheets of April and Mayo. But
(14:52):
whether it's the owners or the players. Ben, you you
host a show that talks about all different sports, you
understand this frankly better than I do, because I work
largely in baseball and hockey, so I've got by two
sports that I focus on. This is an issue where
if if baseball goes away for a while and and
and fans and people around the country find other things
(15:15):
to spend their summer evenings doing, they might not come back,
and then what you gained with some pyric victory in
April or May of evaporates because the overball business is
not growing in the fashion that you expected to grow.
And so Ben, as much as there's a lot of
points being scored on either side, Frankly, both camps have
(15:38):
to take a step back, listen to what the people
who are actually paying the tickets have to say for
them for themselves, and realize that if we don't get
this game back on the field and improve the quality
of the product, with the with the pace of play,
a lot of other issues, if we can't get to
a point where we can talk about these things, the
(15:59):
business is going to shrink. It will become continually less relevant,
not irrelevant, but just less relevant, which is which is
to me concerning I love the game, The game is
my livelihood. It matters a ton to me. We have
to find a way to get it back on the
field and talk about the things that will actually resonate
(16:19):
with the people who buy the tickets, and then that
will hopefully allow the national path time to get to
a better place. We just can't seem to catch a break. Huh.
So many rough fire seasons, but we made it through.
And now there's another risk. All that charred soil and
burnt vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know,
but you've got this too. And one way to get
(16:41):
this is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest
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assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
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true magic of a full West. It's a storybook world
(17:02):
for them. You look and see a tree. They see
the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to
the sky. They see treasure in pebbles, They see a
windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you.
They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest
near you and start exploring and discover the forest. Dot
(17:22):
org brought to you by the United States Forest Service
and the AD Council. If I could be you and
you could be me for just one hour, if you
could find a way to get inside each other's mind,
walk a mile in my shoes, Waco mile in my shoes, shoes.
We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling
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lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn
how it belonging begins with us. Dot org brought to
you by the AD Council. Welcome out in machines, all right, So, John,
you know, I've known you for a long time. I
love baseball as well, and I you talk about everything
on the Overnight Show. And so I'm at the point
now when it comes to the fan issue where I
(18:05):
am convinced both the owners and players they both use
the fans as ponds, but I don't think they truly
either side is really concerned about the fan. I think
it's just rhetoric that they toss out and it's a
good talking point. People like it. But I'll tell you
what's gonna happen, John, What's gonna happen is people are
just they're not gonna worry about baseball. They're gonna do
(18:26):
other things. We saw this a couple of years ago
when the pandemic started and there was no sports for
a hundred days. People just, you know, they find Netflix
or whatever else to watch. And then if sports come back,
I think this is this is the argument that the
owners and the players both both will make that if
it's July and it's eighty degrees and you want to
take your family out to a game, and you know
(18:46):
the weather is wonderful and you want entertainment, it's an
experience you're gonna do it. And so I'm convinced both
sides know that whenever they get a deal done, assuming
there's baseball, they'll be they'll be out there. But in
terms of relevance, yeah, I mean pretty much all we
do in sports radio these days is obsessed about different
free agents in the NFL. That's pretty much what we do.
(19:08):
And it's it's very frustrating, uh, you know from that perspective,
because you know everyone's talking about the fans, both Tony
Clark and uh and also Rob Manford all these other
guys that have issue statements is all about the fans.
This that you'll listen. Let's be honest here, John, just
like you and I, if we're in the negotiation, you're
looking at the players, are looking at for the players,
(19:28):
the owners are looking at for the owners, and you
know the fans are somewhere down the list here. And
so I every time I hear the fans this the
fans lad from owners and players, I kind of cringe because,
being completely transparent, that's not the case. You you buy
that or you don't buy that. Well, I mean been
on some level they have to on a macro basis,
(19:50):
listen to the fans because they're their customers and whether
or not they whether or not they are truly considering
the fans wishes and and I believe certainly with MLBS
moved to the change pace of play, eliminate the shift,
universal d H, some other things that fans want. I
(20:10):
do believe they are listening to the fans in that
respect and want to change and improve the game because
all these the rule change has been. When you consider
where we're at with with a lot of different sports,
rule changes happened quite frequently all the time. In fact,
for with baseball that there is this retstance changed the
game too much because it is sort of this high
(20:32):
bound traditionalist sport. And look around. I mean, you know
what again better than I do. When you consider the
popularity of the NFL, the popularity of the NBA. Uh
certainly you look at soccer. Soccer is in a very
different place now that it was when when best when
baseball was last on strike. So there is a tremendous
(20:54):
competition for the hearts and minds of of people and
and certainly young people. And if you cannot find a
way to develop a passionate following among younger people to
watch the game, for three hours, three and a half hours.
It's a long time. It's a long time for it.
Don't to sit and watch one thing. And so if
(21:15):
we are going to grow the game, as we always
talk about, so the the zeit guys were talking to
hear about growth, mindset, growth, business probably going to grow
the business, how are we going to make families and
young people believe that a baseball game traffic, paying for
the tickets, paying for the concessions, whatever it is, it
is worth our time and money. And if your point been,
(21:37):
a lot of people in the last two years have
reevaluated what that time and money ought to go to.
And there's been a lot of soul searching for all
the different reasons, and that that process is very much ongoing,
and I would say been the worst thing that you
can do. The worst thing that you can do is
remove your your conversation piece, your sports, your brand from
(22:02):
shows like yours. And if you take baseball off the airwaves,
you take baseball out of circulation for a while. Consumer
preferences and what kids are into and what all people
are into change so quickly. Now, Ben, and we know
this that if you take yourself out of circulation for
a period of time. There's no guarantee that you're ever
going to get back in the rotation of of the
(22:23):
family's mindset in Illinois, in Michigan, in Nebraska, in Texas,
in California, wherever it might be, they'll move on. And
I think expecting America to have routines like America has
always had routines is not really a winning strategy at
this point in time. You have to stay above and
(22:44):
in the head of the curve and anticipate, and you
cannot do those things if your product is not being
played at a given time. So how much money we
talked about. I read that the salaries per game that
has been canceled. I read a number. It was like
twenty million dollars per day. If you know all the
games are canceled, which we've already seen some in the
(23:04):
teams are gonna lose like a hundred thousand per per
home game in in revenue. Do those numbers sound right?
Is that? Does that sound like a ball that seems
loaded me on both sides? Is that is that where
we are? And that is that we've heard? There's differing estimates,
I think based on market size, based on team uh,
depending on circumstances. Again obviously, the the national TV revenues
(23:27):
for baseball, and that's that's real where that that really
starts to kick in, and may there are some make
goods that exist for the local regional television piece that
only really start to become a factor if you have
missed twenty games or more. So, those things are admittedly
a bit down the line, but it's not forever. And oh,
by the way, April fifteen is Jackie Robinson Day, anniversary
(23:52):
of his debut, and that to me is as sacred
of an occasion as we have, certainly in baseball, definitely
in spot It's and arguably in our country when you
think about what that day means, uh in American history.
And so that is to me one of the most
hallowed days that we have to observe in our in
our corner of the sports universe. And and darn it
(24:13):
if we cannot find a way to get major league
games played on the seventy five anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut,
and shame on all of us, really, I mean, there's
there's no there is no credible excuse for that for anybody.
It's just it's it's unforgivable from what I said. If
that's if that's the outcome, so uh, and if that's
(24:35):
going to be the outcome. To avoid that, we've got
to get a deal about the next ten days, which,
by the way, they can do the number. I'll repeat.
The number that is the most significant impediment here is
the competitive Palace tax special, which is an entirely discretionary
amount of spending on a per team basis. If you
say a team, I don't really want it to be
(24:57):
too thirty eight, I wanted to be too twenty, Okay,
then don't spend more than two twenty. You have that
right as a team. And and we have seen many
many times that teams that spend more money don't always
benefit from those expenditures. And and so I just I am,
I am a little bit just dumbfounded, frankly as to
(25:18):
why that number is the big issue here when it
is one that a team like Tampa Bay or Pittsburgh
or Kansas City will never even come close to. So
what's the difference to them? I just I just I
don't I do not get the reluctance of of of
the teams, frankly to move that number up a little bit,
(25:39):
because they that's not the concern of a majority of
the teams on a functional basis, right, I just look
at the beator of them. It is not a number
that is entirely relevant to that many teams. Well, and
I don't like, you know, my head is spinning by
all the numbers of these negotiations and all the you know,
I'm on a guy, but the I'm generally against salary
(26:03):
caps and salary floors. But that really sounds like the
issue that the players they're big complaint. They want a
salary floor in here where every team has to spend
X number of dollars. But as we have seen John
over the last ten years fifteen years in baseball, the owners,
uh to their credit, are tremendous Robbert Barons of baseball.
(26:24):
They they have figured out how to bend whatever rules
they have. When you're talking about Tampa Bay, which is
like a Frankenstein's Lab for baseball with what they've been
able to do with finding players off the scrap heep
and all that. So whatever rules are in place, they're
just gonna go out and hire a new crop of
IVY League guys to come in or wherever they find
(26:45):
the next crop of GMS and they'll just bend the rules.
But it's it's like the middle class in baseball just
doesn't exist, and is there really any way to get
back to that. You either have guys that are making,
by base ball standards, not a lot of money, and
then all of a sudden they get two hundred, three
hundred million dollar contracts. But there's there's no middle ground.
(27:07):
It's not like you don't go from zero to a
hundred in real life. You normally have to stop somewhere
in the middle and then go all the way up.
But in baseball, it's either you're at the very bottom
or you're at the very top. And you're not in
the middle. And I frankly, John, maybe you're you're smarter
than me. I don't know how you get that middle
class at baseball backed. I don't see a path to that.
(27:28):
Is there a path to that? Well, a couple of things.
I mean, number one, you look at the NLCS this
past year, Braves Dodgers, the team with low payroll one Houston.
They had the richest player, Rylander was not was not
pitching because he's hurt. They weren't able to resign Garritt Cole,
George Springer left and they got to the World Series again.
(27:48):
So it's it's an interesting dichotomy there. And I should
point out before I go any further, the players Briefly
the notion of a salary floor was on the table,
but then it was discard, So the players are not
even asking for that anymore either. So there is no
there is no minimum to hit that is that is
not part of the conversation right now. It's just the maximum.
(28:10):
And even then it's it's it's not a hard it's
not a salary cap at all. It's not a hard cap.
It's something that you can go over if you want to.
You just have to pay a tax on it. That's
that's all that means. So I think the Braves have
been a team has been successful while spending somewhere in
the middle range. Obviously, the Dodgers, they don't win the
World Series without Mookie Betts, and he's someone that their
(28:33):
market size allowed them to sign to a multi year
deal and keep long term. Now, of course the Dodgers
they lost Corey Seeger. They can't even spend on everybody,
and in fact, someone argue it's not even always in
your best interest to spend on the biggest superstar. Look
at the free agent contracts of for example, Robinson Canoe,
(28:54):
Albert Pools, who the biggest contracts ever signed. Uh, they
have not necessarily age shas well towards the back end
of those deals. And then, to me, this is a
little bit of a granular point in baseball, but I'll
make it because I think it's important. The players ought
to be thrilled with the reality that there is no
longer direct draft pick compensation tied to free agent signings.
(29:17):
Once upon a time as recently as for example, last offseason,
I would be talking to team executives and say, listen,
this player is a good fit for you, why don't
you sign him? And the answer would beat John off
the record. I can't give up the draft pick because
the draft is the most efficient way that I can
add talent to my organization. And I'm not going to
give up that ability to sign a player to a
(29:39):
multi year deal into his thirties when I'm not entirely
sure if he's gonna be worth that money the longer
e play. But I might be willing to take that
risk if I didn't also have to give up a
draft pick that drafted compensation Ben is now gone. That
is a huge deal on a level that I wonder
if the players fully appreciate how significant that victory is
(30:01):
for them in this negotiation. I think that part of
this Ben has not been talked about nearly enough when
you consider how important that's going to be in the
free agent market. Well, yeah, yeah, I haven't really read
much about it. Look for your children's eyes to see
the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world
for them. You look and see a tree, They see
(30:22):
the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to
the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a
windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you.
They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest
near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot
Org brought to you by the United States Forest Service
(30:42):
and the Council. What grows in the forest trees? Sure
know what else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our
sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because
when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we
reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.
(31:04):
Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover
the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the AD Council. What grows in
the forest trees? Sure you know what else grows in
the forest. Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our
family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this
(31:28):
and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The
forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near
you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org
brought to you by the United States Forest Service and
the AD Council. But let me ask you this, Jane.
As far as the rules changes, I've talked to a number.
(31:48):
I want to talk about the shift here, because there's
always a pet people mind. You talk to some of
these old time guys that played in the seventies and
the eighties back in the day, and they will tell
you they know how to beat the shift. It's called
choking up on the bat and you're hitting the ball
the other way. The players are so stubborn that the
owners have to put the band of the shift and
(32:09):
they have to implement an actual rule because the players
are unable to adapt that That to me is very
frustrating when just like basic baseball, just choke up on
the bat, hit the ball the other way, get a
base it They're giving you the entire side of the field.
It's very frustrating they have to do that. And the
pitch clock, Uh, that's also the's like certain pictures just
(32:32):
take forever. And in baseball has always prided itself on
not having a clock, this, that and the other thing. Uh.
Those two things. I don't think the base thing, the
oversized base thing, is that that big a deal. But
the banning of the shift seems unnecessary. And and the
pitch clock is that is that going to go over
like a lead balloon? John? First of all, I agree
(32:54):
with you on the on the shifting aspect. We shouldn't
have to do it, but here we are. Uh. And
I would point out too, this is the thing, Ben
that I I just shake my head at every single year.
You look at the way the playoffs playoff. Look at
the lou of the Nationals. Okay, when they won the
World Series. Who was the player that the Dodgers couldn't
(33:16):
get out and that even the Astros couldn't get out
that year? Howie Kendrick. One of the oldest players in
that World Series, someone who didn't really ever have like
a forty homer season, but he put the ball in play,
had good at bats with short, simple approaches late in
the game, and Howie Kendricks was the reason why the
Nationals won the World Series. And every year, every winter bend,
(33:40):
there are players on the open market like Howie Kendricks,
and they never get the respect they deserve because the
skill of putting the ball in play, moving runners, having
a professional late, late inning at bat is totally forgotten
about until it comes time to decide the championship and
everybody says, you know what, why fill in the blank?
(34:02):
How many times do we read the obituary of a
particular team and particular series. Oh my gosh, we struck
out too much. We couldn't catch up to their Their
relief pitchers were throwing up ninety nine and we just
couldn't catch up. We struck out too much. But yeah, jeez,
you couldn't signed Howie Kendrick ten months ago for a
song and you didn't do it. What were you doing
(34:22):
back then? It's not like Howie Kendrick won the World
Series and the World Series was was in like a
black and white movie reel from that was like two
years ago. And I think teams just don't they don't watch.
They just don't watch the games. You know, they don't watch.
When when the Royals won the World Series seven years ago,
putting the ball and play l city Is Escobar, uh
(34:45):
it players like him, Eric Osmer, these guys were not
like fifty homer players and they were winning players. Okay,
they won, and I just I it baffles me every
year we act like, oh my gosh, I've never seen
this before. Yeah, yeah you did. It was like in
the Work Series two years ago. Howie Kendrick, Alfieus Escobar,
Eric Cosmer, Lorenzo Caine. Players like that win you championships,
(35:08):
So go sign them. And they're not gonna cost you
fifty million bucks a year. So I I think I'm
with you on the frustration of the lack of an adjustment.
The pitch clock works, and part of the reason then
why it works is that you don't have to spend
a minute to shift somebody from one side of the
field to the other. Get the ball and go. Your
defense is more active, Uh throw all strikes. But again,
(35:32):
when when the whole focus is you gotta throw a
hunderd thirty five hour to get scouted now, and and
the ball is spraying all over the place because they
can't control it because they've been focused on just throwing
the ball to the radar gun for their whole lives. Yeah,
you get problems with command and they don't work as fast,
and you don't have a lot of Mark Burley's anymore unfortunately.
So it's just then it's it's funny to me because
(35:55):
a lot of these things were talking about. Now, this
is not like I'm not an analytical genius. I'm a
genius at all. I just watched the games and and
these are common sense things that that are there for
any of us that actually take the time to watch.
And I just think there's way way too many calculations,
and there's too much reliance on the numbers, not enough
(36:15):
reliance on observing the way the game is played and
and making your decisions based on that. I'm hoping that
the CB will represent some of these concerns and address
them and get better in players like Howie Kendrick respected
and paid what they deserve in the market. But there
are a lot of issues right now. Ben I think
we've we've touched on a lot of them over the
last half hour, but there are certainly other things that
(36:36):
still sought through here in the in the days of
weeks to come. Yeah. Absolutely, the PR battle is also
a big part of this, John, I know yet a
little little time left, so the PR battle is not
particularly great. Rob Manford did not have a good day
on Tuesday when he was smiling and chuckling and all that.
The The other part of this is the players and
social media. Now. I did a rant on my radio
(36:57):
show the other night about this. I there are many
people saying how rate this is now because we didn't
have Twitter and Instagram back the last time there was
that elongated work stoppage. But I say this is actually
bad for the players because there's many more players than owners, John,
and the chances that the players are going to be
united on social media and some of these guys aren't
gonna start snapping are very low. So I think this
(37:19):
will actually turn out to be a net negative for
the players. What say you, you know, it's a fair question. Uh,
I don't know, to be honest with you, where where
the um where the public opinion will come down? I
think that if if anything has been instructive to us
in recent years. I certainly just know it just from
my own experience reporting and and uh having to exist
(37:41):
in the social media sphere that typically you you you
don't often hear the concordance of agreement from everybody. It's
more often than the criticisms. So I would imagine that
most people involved in the process are hearing more negative
feedback than positive. We all want to see the game
on the field. It's not there, so we're frustrated. And
if we're gonna say anything to anybody, let's think about it.
(38:03):
We're not gonna say, hey, we we don't have baseball
right now, good job everyone. No, it's it's it's that's
not what anybody is saying right now. So I think
that the feedback universally to everybody is negative. The players
themselves are are perhaps a bit more accessible than the
owners in terms of their their public profile. And I
point this out to it, and I heard Tim Kirkson
(38:24):
talk about this recently on them we New We're Bradio.
I think it's a very good point. We don't really
hear as much from the owners themselves anymore. They are
not people who are frequently quoted and seeing again, maybe
they don't want to say the wrong thing and have
it live forever on social media whatever it might be.
But they've been very careful. We don't hear much from
(38:48):
them individually, and again that's their choice, but I think
it's a little harder maybe for the fan to understand
what the owner wants to do, what the plan is,
when they only hear from that person a time or
two a year. And I do think that that just
accountability availability that helps. And perhaps after this is done,
(39:11):
it will be important for the owners to get out
in front of this be out in front of their fans,
um be humble about things. The players have to be
humble about it too, I think, once this deal is
done and focus on how do we grow the game
at that point in time, once the games have started,
I don't think that if you pulled fifty thou fans
of Dodger Stadium, they're not gonna be talking about who
(39:32):
was right, who was wrong CVT. They don't care. They
just want to see the game back on the field,
and they want to see the people who are on
the field and managing the games. Front office folks. Owners
realize that this is a public trust. Realize that this
is not uh, this is not the most serious thing
happening in the world right now, clearly, and so we
have to have a certain humility about that and and
(39:54):
earn back the trust of the fans through word and deed,
and have that ethic whole fully carried the day going forward.
All Right, Yeah, that's ay, that is the great point.
We remember when I was a kid, we had bigger
than life owners that seem to always be quoted in
a newspaper. We don't have that. I I I don't
some of these owners. I don't even know who they are.
But we'll get you out of here on this, John
(40:16):
your crystal ball, the John Morosi crystal ball. Is this
a short term situation or are we gonna be talking
to you two months from now and there's still no baseball? Well,
certainly have baseball, I believe, ben By My hope is
by the early part of May at the latest. And
I really believe that that there is still a chance,
(40:37):
and I am an optimist in my core, there is
still a chance that we have baseball On Jackie Robinson
Day April. I'm gonna that will be my prayer, my
hope in the days I had my friend, and let's uh,
let's all work together towards that goal. Let's hope that
the negotiations progress. And so I'm gonna say April fifteenth
is the one that I've got circled for for a
positive reason for it to be Jackie Robinson day with baseball. Awesome.
(41:00):
Thank you, John Ben, my Brosure my friend. Keep up
all the group work that you do. I always enjoy
listening to you, especially when I'm out the West Coast.
I'll late you do a great job of keeping the
conversation going all through the night, keeping us going all
the time. Benny, So I always look catching up. We
just can't seem to catch a break. Huh. So many
rough fire seasons, but we made it through. And now
(41:21):
there's another risk. All that charred soil and burnt vegetation
can lead to floods and mud flow. I know, but
you've got this too, And one way to get this
is to get this flood insurance. There's no rest for
the West, but with flood insurance, you can rest assured
that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you.
Protect the life you've built at flood smart dot gov.
(41:43):
Slash wildfires right now at O'Reilly Auto Parts. Get up
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batteries only at O'Reilly Auto Parts. Alright Auto Parts. What
girls in the forest, our imagination and our family bonds.
The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest
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(42:26):
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