August 8, 2025 • 19 mins
George Noory and researcher Dean Alioto discuss his documentary film investigating some of the most famous UFO events like the Tic Tac UFO and the Lonnie Zamora sighting, why many UFO skeptics become believers, and what he thinks the Vatican is looking for with their outer space investigations.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeartRadio and.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri with your
award winning filmmaker and UFO researcher Dean Aliotto with us
has produced numerous specials for A and E Bravo Discovery,
as well as consulting on successful James Fox UFO documentary
The Phenomenon. Dean was featured in the paramount and documentary
Unknown Decisions and the Story of Paranormal Activity as the
(00:27):
creator of the first ever found footage of the movie,
the McPherson tape in the upn TV movie Alien Abduction
Incident in Lake County. Dean recently completed a seven year
filmmaking journey spanning four countries and more than sixty interviews
for his documentaries The Alien Perspective. In the newly released
(00:49):
Life Beyond Earth, Dean, welcome to the program. You're pretty prolific,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Boy, George, thank you for having me. Just hearing that
has made me exhausted and I think I need to
check my blood pressure because your last guest was talking
about whe's sixty not good. So yeah, it's been a journey.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
How many documentaries have you produced all kinds?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, Well, I've done documentaries for A and E, Bravo Discovery,
like historical things, World War Two, Billy the Kid, Lizzie Borden,
and so this just felt like, all right, I want
to take something that I'm really interested in and folded
into documentaries as well as the independent films that I made.
But I had no idea, zero idea that it would
(01:35):
end up being this seven year journey.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
That's fantastic, And how you how's your perspective on your documentaries?
What was the theme?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, there have been so many documentaries on this that
sometimes the best thing to do, I know as a
filmmaker is to look at what everyone else is doing
and then run the opposite way. And so for me,
rather than look at this from the human's perspective, which
a lot of great docs have done, I wanted to
(02:06):
look at it, even as a hypothetical, from the alien's
point of view. And so because of that, and because
I'd done science documentaries before, I was able to pull
in people who normally don't talk about UFOs or aliens
as a hypothesis. It allowed me to get them, and
so that's how we got Mitchell Kalku. We got the
(02:27):
Nick Bostrom out of Oxford, the creator of the reality
hypothesis that we're living in a similated reality. Yeah, that's
kind of how that all created itself. It just kind
of grabbed me and said, here we go.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, it's very novel and unique and extremely clever.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well done, thank you, thank you. Yeah. Well it was
funny because when I started out, I thought, well, I'm
going to do this in nine months and I'll do
fifteen interviews and that'll be it. And so you know,
anytime you start with a doc, you want to have
the door and you want to be agnostic about whatever
subject that you're discussing or going into and delving into.
And so with this, I went into it. And then
(03:08):
it became like this virus where I went to NASA
and I said, hey, what happens when you find that planet?
And I'm talking to the deputy of the Test Program,
which was the next it was. It was right before
the James Web Telescope when they were looking for other
planets in the Goldilocks District area, and I said, hey,
(03:29):
what happens when you find that planet that maybe has
a dice in sphere around it or has a grid
of a city. What then, what is your plan once
you find that civilization that is intelligent and like us,
what happens? And she got the giggles and she said,
I don't know, we don't have a plan. And so
(03:52):
that started everything. From that point on, it was like,
all right, now I've got to figure out what we're doing,
and how does that factor in too being able to
eventually find out what their perspective would be and be
able to communicate with them again as a hypothetical. But
it just went on and on, and so I met SETI,
and then I met the Carl Sagan Institute, talking to
(04:15):
doctor Lisa Kaltenator, who's the new director of the Carl
Sagan Institute, and it just again it went from one
person to another, and here I am sixty seven interviews.
You know into it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What did you learn that you did not know prior
to doing the documentaries?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Oh, that one's easy. I learned that I don't know anything.
I had preconceived ideas. And then it's kind of like
the Beatles. I'm a big fan of the Beatles. And
when you start out, usually you go right to George.
He's the kind of Gateway Drug to the Beatles, and
then you go to John and so I'm gonna call
(04:57):
I'm gonna call Paul, excuse me, Paul's the first when
you go to Paul, Paul is that they're from another planet.
And then you go to John and John is there
might be another from another dimension, and then you know,
then you go to George and George is like, well,
they could be from the future. And so all these
theories you keep jumping on and you chase those viciously
(05:20):
and you get as much as you can. And for me,
the biggest challenge of this documentary is I know that
it's going to be seen by people like me, and
I'm like, show me the money. I've seen all these
documentaries before, show me something I haven't seen before. But
at the same time, I want to pull people in
who are I like to buy UFO curious, who want
to be able to catch up with what we've been
(05:42):
doing for a long time. And so I had to
serve kind of two masters. And so each episode each
doc has a couple or a few mic drops, and
so along the way I would seek out to find those,
and I would find those. But it really took me
being removing rather everything that I thought that I knew
about the phenomenon and say okay, I know nothing, let's
(06:04):
start from scratch. And helping me along the way was
everyone from you know, like I said, Mitchell Kalku, Leslie Kine,
David Chalmers, n YU philosophy professor, I mean, just a
whole litany of great minds, much much greater than mine.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's almost like the History Channels ancient aliens in a
documentary form.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, yeah, which you know again, there have been so
many great documentaries out there that have been done that
have hit these some of the same trail. You have
to work really hard to go off and to do that.
And so when I see something that's like, oh, we've
done that before, I run the other way. And so
(06:49):
you're going to see things that you haven't seen before.
But as an example, what I haven't seen before is
I've not seen the tic Tac incident, the one that
started at all, the one that the New York Times brought
out and reinvigorated the whole field. And when I look
at that footage, I don't know about you, but when
(07:11):
I first saw the footage, I looked at this little
hashmark moving back and forth, and the first thing I
thought was, I've seen this before. This is Atari's pong.
We have that little white thing. We'll be back and forth,
and I'm like, that's not going to work from my
slightly dyslexic brain. I need to visually see it. And
so because of that, I went and I reached out
(07:32):
to the guy who did the animation for the Oscar
winning film Searching for Sugarman, and I said, I need
you to put us in the cockpit of Commander Dave
Fraver's jet. I want to see it from perspectives I've
not seen before. And so with that animation done in
several different stories, whether it's the Sacaro, New Mexico, or
(07:53):
the tic Tech incident or the Renlscham forest, it brought
all of those cases to life because I was able
to look at it from a perspective that we've never
been able to look at it before, literally visually, and
so that uncovered a lot of things that were surprises
for me.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
What did you think of the police officer Lonnie Zamora's
case on Sacoro, New Mexico, which you handled in the documentary.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
There are a few cases that I point to whenever
someone says, really, is this actually going on? Lonnie Zamora's
case is right up there, like number one. That case
is great because I and I put in the documentary.
As you can see, the animation is done under Lonnie
(08:43):
Zamore's actual first interview that was on a local radio show.
In fact, after he tells his story, he's interrupted by
the military coming in and he says, I'm sorry, I
got to go. The military's here, and the host of
the radio show is going, please, please, can you promise
to come back and tell us what you learned?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Fish?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
He never did. You got to finish it. It's the
worst nightmare. But that case is terrific. Where you have
this very well respected police officer who's out there and
he's following this one car and then he sees something else,
and so he's pulled from what he would normally be doing.
It wasn't like he was seeking it. It wasn't like
he was in the UFOs or aliens really before then.
(09:25):
And he goes out and he sees this craft that's
already landed, and he sees these little people and as
he describes in his own voice, he says, you know,
these were small beings and these coveralls, and he says,
you saw these people. The radio host says, so you
saw these people, these three people, and he goes, I
wouldn't call them people. So, you know, a CoP's job
(09:47):
is to be able to have excellent recall. You know why,
because they've got to write those reports, which they hate,
and so they make sure they have everything down. And
everything that he wrote was insanely just fantastical. He sees
these three beans, they look at him, they get into
the craft and they take off and it has this
(10:08):
powerful surge as it pulls away, and then it's almost
like it kicks into some kind of anti gravity and
takes off. And he didn't want to see this. He
did not want to see this, and when we reported
it was begrudgingly done, and years later he was like, yeah,
I kind of wish I never did that. So that case,
(10:29):
I wanted to be with him on the bluff as
he's looking down and he's looking across and he's singing
that UFO and what it looked like. And by the way,
a lot of people think the craft was kind of
like an egg, you know, and it's not vertical. It
was horizontal. In fact, there's a possibility. It could have
been more shaped like the tic.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Taclanie Zamora died sixteen years ago, but his story so
convinced doctor j Ellen Heinek, who was heading up Project
Blue Book at the time, that it turned him from
the non believer to a believer. It changed his life.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Completely. I mean the thing about Jalen Heineck and I
have his son in the uh Paul second documentary, Paul Heinek, Yeah,
the second documentary that just came on on Amazon, Life
Beyond Earth. He Jalen Heinech, he was, he was, Heinich
(11:31):
was very There's there's a hubris that you have when
you work in the sciences, and that's that I can
prove things, and if I can't prove them, that I'm
not going to spend time doing that. And this was
something that he could not prove. But he realized that
this did happen, and so for him, he had to
make that leap. He had to make that crossover because
(11:51):
he didn't want to be some disinformation agent and that's
where he was being forced into doing and and to
underscore these cases and and you know, the cases that
he got were not always some of the juiciest cases.
By the way, those went to other divisions in DD.
So that was a big, big moment for him. And
(12:12):
then at that moment he had to reconfigure everything. That's
that should be its own movie. Actually, yeah, really fascinating case,
but that one's yeah. I was born a month almost
directly to the day after after the landing happened in
the So Carlo, New Mexico. It's a great case.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Did you ever have a chance to interview Stanton Friedman
before he died?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Kind of? So I did this UPN's It was UPN's
first TV movie called Alien Abduction Incident in Lake County,
and that was about a family that gets abducted by extraterrestrials.
This is nineteen ninety eight. It came out when we
were up in Canada shooting it with the guys from
the X Files who do the ship in Aliens. Everyone
(12:57):
got fired at UPN. So when we came back, we
got fired and they took this two hour TV movie
that cut it down to an hour and they added
some interviews and one of those interviews was Stanton Freeman,
And so they did something really sneaky, really not cool,
which is they interviewed him in general about the phenomenon,
(13:17):
and then they intercut that almost like he was talking
about my movie. And it really angered me and the
DGM a part of the Director's Guild of America, and
they went after them upn and got a little bit
of a settlement. Years later, I am going to the
(13:38):
International UFO Congress Convention and the very first podcast that
I do was for Martin Willis Podcast UFO and singing
across from me was Stanton Freeman. So I said to him, Oh, good,
I get to do me a coulpan, say, hey, I
had nothing to do with that. I'm so sorry. And
he looked at me and turned his head kind of
like a dog does you know when they're curious, and goes, yeah,
(14:00):
do you know how many shows I've been on? I
have no memory of this whatsoever, So just let it go.
It's all good, you know, welcome to the club. So
he was a sweet man, very sorry to see him go.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
He was my first radio interview in nineteen seventy one. Dean, Oh,
I didn't know that, not only that, listen to this.
I was the last person to interview him when he died.
What he was my first interview in nineteen seventy one
in Detroit. He came to speak and then he was
(14:36):
on our studio stage in Columbus, Ohio. Was on his
way back through the Toronto Airport and had a heart attack.
But I was so was. He was my first interview
and I was the last guy to interview him. Can
you believe that?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Wow? No, I didn't know, so you basically book ended.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I book ended, That's right, Yeah, wow, yeah, he was.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
What I loved most about him is he made no apologies.
He's like I call him flying saucers. I'm not going
to call them UAPs or UFOs or flying saucers. To me,
he was old school, but he had this integrity about
him that only a few still share.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And he was exciting to listen to. Oh yeah, yeah,
what did you learn by the two documentaries, The Alien
Perspective and Life Beyond Earth.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It's funny because I'm a sci fi writer, and you know,
my first film was sci fi. It was called The
McPherson Tape originally was called UFO Abduction, and which was
done in like nineteen eighty nine, and so I've been
at this a long time, and so for me, science
fiction is always feeding off of science or feeding off
(15:55):
of what we predict. I mean, sci fi writers are
are in their best in the best, in their best work.
They are profits like H. G. Wells who writes going
about going to the Moon and how they'll be booster
rockets and stuff, and he writes this in the late
eighteen hundreds. So every time I would be working on
(16:18):
an angle to these documentaries, I would go, oh, maybe
it's just like this, and I would discover no, no, no,
it's next level. So when I'm interviewing someone like doctor
Nick Bostrom, who created the simulation reality hypothesis that we're
living in a simulation, I'm interviewing him and I'm thinking
he's just going to talk about the idea that we
could be part of a you know, simulation, and he says, no, no, no,
(16:40):
I'm saying that we were created by aliens, this program
that we're all living in. And I'm like, wait, this
guy's from Oxford, he's a smart guy, and he's saying
he doesn't know it, but he believes it. And so
that's a distinction that I always want to make. People say,
oh I know this, I know that, and I go, okay,
(17:02):
do you know it or you'd believe it. I have
a lot of beliefs, but the nones, there's only a
few of those, and those are very precious. And that
was one where he says he just he felt like
we are there's signs that were in the matrix, and
so that was really interesting. And then with the second one,
(17:22):
Life Beyond Earth, Dinah Pasoka is our main featured interview
there and she opens up about the Vatican and how
the Vatican has had an extraterrestrial program for decades. I
don't know about you. I had no idea about that,
and that she was one of the only women academia
(17:44):
who were allowed to go into the Vatican's secret library.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Hit it up by Father Balducci.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I think, yes, yes, And so to look at that
and go, okay, so maybe the Vatican, maybe the Church
learned that, you know, maybe Galileo was onto something, and
let's not get caught next time. And so we're going
to make sure that we have our own program. And so,
(18:11):
as you'll see in the documentary, they have several high
powered telescopes. I mean some of these telescopes at the
time that they were created were some of the best
cutting edge telescopes all over the world, and so you know,
that blew my mind. And then we got into I
don't it sounds fantastical, but non human intelligence downloads and
(18:37):
so all of those just went on and on and
next level. And at some point I can't tell when
these documentaries are done, it becomes that was the other thing.
It's like, how do I know? Because it was just
going to be one documentary. Then it ballooned up and
became two, and it actually became four, and so the
other two are being worked.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
One.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I can tell you that the next one is going
to be all about the experiencers. But these two it
you know, these documentaries get to a certain point, it's like, okay,
this this whole idea is kind of wrapped up in
what the thesis is. So the first one is where
do they come from? And so we focus on that
(19:19):
and that's the only perspective. The second one is why
are they coming here? Which is the paramount question.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Why listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight
at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to
coastam dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeartRadio and.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri with your
award winning filmmaker and UFO researcher Dean Aliotto with us
has produced numerous specials for A and E Bravo Discovery,
as well as consulting on successful James Fox UFO documentary
The Phenomenon. Dean was featured in the paramount and documentary
Unknown Decisions and the Story of Paranormal Activity as the
(00:27):
creator of the first ever found footage of the movie,
the McPherson tape in the upn TV movie Alien Abduction
Incident in Lake County. Dean recently completed a seven year
filmmaking journey spanning four countries and more than sixty interviews
for his documentaries The Alien Perspective. In the newly released
(00:49):
Life Beyond Earth, Dean, welcome to the program. You're pretty prolific,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Boy, George, thank you for having me. Just hearing that
has made me exhausted and I think I need to
check my blood pressure because your last guest was talking
about whe's sixty not good. So yeah, it's been a journey.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
How many documentaries have you produced all kinds?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, Well, I've done documentaries for A and E, Bravo Discovery,
like historical things, World War Two, Billy the Kid, Lizzie Borden,
and so this just felt like, all right, I want
to take something that I'm really interested in and folded
into documentaries as well as the independent films that I made.
But I had no idea, zero idea that it would
(01:35):
end up being this seven year journey.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
That's fantastic, And how you how's your perspective on your documentaries?
What was the theme?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, there have been so many documentaries on this that
sometimes the best thing to do, I know as a
filmmaker is to look at what everyone else is doing
and then run the opposite way. And so for me,
rather than look at this from the human's perspective, which
a lot of great docs have done, I wanted to
(02:06):
look at it, even as a hypothetical, from the alien's
point of view. And so because of that, and because
I'd done science documentaries before, I was able to pull
in people who normally don't talk about UFOs or aliens
as a hypothesis. It allowed me to get them, and
so that's how we got Mitchell Kalku. We got the
(02:27):
Nick Bostrom out of Oxford, the creator of the reality
hypothesis that we're living in a similated reality. Yeah, that's
kind of how that all created itself. It just kind
of grabbed me and said, here we go.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, it's very novel and unique and extremely clever.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well done, thank you, thank you. Yeah. Well it was
funny because when I started out, I thought, well, I'm
going to do this in nine months and I'll do
fifteen interviews and that'll be it. And so you know,
anytime you start with a doc, you want to have
the door and you want to be agnostic about whatever
subject that you're discussing or going into and delving into.
And so with this, I went into it. And then
(03:08):
it became like this virus where I went to NASA
and I said, hey, what happens when you find that planet?
And I'm talking to the deputy of the Test Program,
which was the next it was. It was right before
the James Web Telescope when they were looking for other
planets in the Goldilocks District area, and I said, hey,
(03:29):
what happens when you find that planet that maybe has
a dice in sphere around it or has a grid
of a city. What then, what is your plan once
you find that civilization that is intelligent and like us,
what happens? And she got the giggles and she said,
I don't know, we don't have a plan. And so
(03:52):
that started everything. From that point on, it was like,
all right, now I've got to figure out what we're doing,
and how does that factor in too being able to
eventually find out what their perspective would be and be
able to communicate with them again as a hypothetical. But
it just went on and on, and so I met SETI,
and then I met the Carl Sagan Institute, talking to
(04:15):
doctor Lisa Kaltenator, who's the new director of the Carl
Sagan Institute, and it just again it went from one
person to another, and here I am sixty seven interviews.
You know into it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What did you learn that you did not know prior
to doing the documentaries?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Oh, that one's easy. I learned that I don't know anything.
I had preconceived ideas. And then it's kind of like
the Beatles. I'm a big fan of the Beatles. And
when you start out, usually you go right to George.
He's the kind of Gateway Drug to the Beatles, and
then you go to John and so I'm gonna call
(04:57):
I'm gonna call Paul, excuse me, Paul's the first when
you go to Paul, Paul is that they're from another planet.
And then you go to John and John is there
might be another from another dimension, and then you know,
then you go to George and George is like, well,
they could be from the future. And so all these
theories you keep jumping on and you chase those viciously
(05:20):
and you get as much as you can. And for me,
the biggest challenge of this documentary is I know that
it's going to be seen by people like me, and
I'm like, show me the money. I've seen all these
documentaries before, show me something I haven't seen before. But
at the same time, I want to pull people in
who are I like to buy UFO curious, who want
to be able to catch up with what we've been
(05:42):
doing for a long time. And so I had to
serve kind of two masters. And so each episode each
doc has a couple or a few mic drops, and
so along the way I would seek out to find those,
and I would find those. But it really took me
being removing rather everything that I thought that I knew
about the phenomenon and say okay, I know nothing, let's
(06:04):
start from scratch. And helping me along the way was
everyone from you know, like I said, Mitchell Kalku, Leslie Kine,
David Chalmers, n YU philosophy professor, I mean, just a
whole litany of great minds, much much greater than mine.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's almost like the History Channels ancient aliens in a
documentary form.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, yeah, which you know again, there have been so
many great documentaries out there that have been done that
have hit these some of the same trail. You have
to work really hard to go off and to do that.
And so when I see something that's like, oh, we've
done that before, I run the other way. And so
(06:49):
you're going to see things that you haven't seen before.
But as an example, what I haven't seen before is
I've not seen the tic Tac incident, the one that
started at all, the one that the New York Times brought
out and reinvigorated the whole field. And when I look
at that footage, I don't know about you, but when
(07:11):
I first saw the footage, I looked at this little
hashmark moving back and forth, and the first thing I
thought was, I've seen this before. This is Atari's pong.
We have that little white thing. We'll be back and forth,
and I'm like, that's not going to work from my
slightly dyslexic brain. I need to visually see it. And
so because of that, I went and I reached out
(07:32):
to the guy who did the animation for the Oscar
winning film Searching for Sugarman, and I said, I need
you to put us in the cockpit of Commander Dave
Fraver's jet. I want to see it from perspectives I've
not seen before. And so with that animation done in
several different stories, whether it's the Sacaro, New Mexico, or
(07:53):
the tic Tech incident or the Renlscham forest, it brought
all of those cases to life because I was able
to look at it from a perspective that we've never
been able to look at it before, literally visually, and
so that uncovered a lot of things that were surprises
for me.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
What did you think of the police officer Lonnie Zamora's
case on Sacoro, New Mexico, which you handled in the documentary.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
There are a few cases that I point to whenever
someone says, really, is this actually going on? Lonnie Zamora's
case is right up there, like number one. That case
is great because I and I put in the documentary.
As you can see, the animation is done under Lonnie
(08:43):
Zamore's actual first interview that was on a local radio show.
In fact, after he tells his story, he's interrupted by
the military coming in and he says, I'm sorry, I
got to go. The military's here, and the host of
the radio show is going, please, please, can you promise
to come back and tell us what you learned?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Fish?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
He never did. You got to finish it. It's the
worst nightmare. But that case is terrific. Where you have
this very well respected police officer who's out there and
he's following this one car and then he sees something else,
and so he's pulled from what he would normally be doing.
It wasn't like he was seeking it. It wasn't like
he was in the UFOs or aliens really before then.
(09:25):
And he goes out and he sees this craft that's
already landed, and he sees these little people and as
he describes in his own voice, he says, you know,
these were small beings and these coveralls, and he says,
you saw these people. The radio host says, so you
saw these people, these three people, and he goes, I
wouldn't call them people. So, you know, a CoP's job
(09:47):
is to be able to have excellent recall. You know why,
because they've got to write those reports, which they hate,
and so they make sure they have everything down. And
everything that he wrote was insanely just fantastical. He sees
these three beans, they look at him, they get into
the craft and they take off and it has this
(10:08):
powerful surge as it pulls away, and then it's almost
like it kicks into some kind of anti gravity and
takes off. And he didn't want to see this. He
did not want to see this, and when we reported
it was begrudgingly done, and years later he was like, yeah,
I kind of wish I never did that. So that case,
(10:29):
I wanted to be with him on the bluff as
he's looking down and he's looking across and he's singing
that UFO and what it looked like. And by the way,
a lot of people think the craft was kind of
like an egg, you know, and it's not vertical. It
was horizontal. In fact, there's a possibility. It could have
been more shaped like the tic.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Taclanie Zamora died sixteen years ago, but his story so
convinced doctor j Ellen Heinek, who was heading up Project
Blue Book at the time, that it turned him from
the non believer to a believer. It changed his life.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Completely. I mean the thing about Jalen Heineck and I
have his son in the uh Paul second documentary, Paul Heinek, Yeah,
the second documentary that just came on on Amazon, Life
Beyond Earth. He Jalen Heinech, he was, he was, Heinich
(11:31):
was very There's there's a hubris that you have when
you work in the sciences, and that's that I can
prove things, and if I can't prove them, that I'm
not going to spend time doing that. And this was
something that he could not prove. But he realized that
this did happen, and so for him, he had to
make that leap. He had to make that crossover because
(11:51):
he didn't want to be some disinformation agent and that's
where he was being forced into doing and and to
underscore these cases and and you know, the cases that
he got were not always some of the juiciest cases.
By the way, those went to other divisions in DD.
So that was a big, big moment for him. And
(12:12):
then at that moment he had to reconfigure everything. That's
that should be its own movie. Actually, yeah, really fascinating case,
but that one's yeah. I was born a month almost
directly to the day after after the landing happened in
the So Carlo, New Mexico. It's a great case.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Did you ever have a chance to interview Stanton Friedman
before he died?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Kind of? So I did this UPN's It was UPN's
first TV movie called Alien Abduction Incident in Lake County,
and that was about a family that gets abducted by extraterrestrials.
This is nineteen ninety eight. It came out when we
were up in Canada shooting it with the guys from
the X Files who do the ship in Aliens. Everyone
(12:57):
got fired at UPN. So when we came back, we
got fired and they took this two hour TV movie
that cut it down to an hour and they added
some interviews and one of those interviews was Stanton Freeman,
And so they did something really sneaky, really not cool,
which is they interviewed him in general about the phenomenon,
(13:17):
and then they intercut that almost like he was talking
about my movie. And it really angered me and the
DGM a part of the Director's Guild of America, and
they went after them upn and got a little bit
of a settlement. Years later, I am going to the
(13:38):
International UFO Congress Convention and the very first podcast that
I do was for Martin Willis Podcast UFO and singing
across from me was Stanton Freeman. So I said to him, Oh, good,
I get to do me a coulpan, say, hey, I
had nothing to do with that. I'm so sorry. And
he looked at me and turned his head kind of
like a dog does you know when they're curious, and goes, yeah,
(14:00):
do you know how many shows I've been on? I
have no memory of this whatsoever, So just let it go.
It's all good, you know, welcome to the club. So
he was a sweet man, very sorry to see him go.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
He was my first radio interview in nineteen seventy one. Dean, Oh,
I didn't know that, not only that, listen to this.
I was the last person to interview him when he died.
What he was my first interview in nineteen seventy one
in Detroit. He came to speak and then he was
(14:36):
on our studio stage in Columbus, Ohio. Was on his
way back through the Toronto Airport and had a heart attack.
But I was so was. He was my first interview
and I was the last guy to interview him. Can
you believe that?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Wow? No, I didn't know, so you basically book ended.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I book ended, That's right, Yeah, wow, yeah, he was.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
What I loved most about him is he made no apologies.
He's like I call him flying saucers. I'm not going
to call them UAPs or UFOs or flying saucers. To me,
he was old school, but he had this integrity about
him that only a few still share.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And he was exciting to listen to. Oh yeah, yeah,
what did you learn by the two documentaries, The Alien
Perspective and Life Beyond Earth.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It's funny because I'm a sci fi writer, and you know,
my first film was sci fi. It was called The
McPherson Tape originally was called UFO Abduction, and which was
done in like nineteen eighty nine, and so I've been
at this a long time, and so for me, science
fiction is always feeding off of science or feeding off
(15:55):
of what we predict. I mean, sci fi writers are
are in their best in the best, in their best work.
They are profits like H. G. Wells who writes going
about going to the Moon and how they'll be booster
rockets and stuff, and he writes this in the late
eighteen hundreds. So every time I would be working on
(16:18):
an angle to these documentaries, I would go, oh, maybe
it's just like this, and I would discover no, no, no,
it's next level. So when I'm interviewing someone like doctor
Nick Bostrom, who created the simulation reality hypothesis that we're
living in a simulation, I'm interviewing him and I'm thinking
he's just going to talk about the idea that we
could be part of a you know, simulation, and he says, no, no, no,
(16:40):
I'm saying that we were created by aliens, this program
that we're all living in. And I'm like, wait, this
guy's from Oxford, he's a smart guy, and he's saying
he doesn't know it, but he believes it. And so
that's a distinction that I always want to make. People say,
oh I know this, I know that, and I go, okay,
(17:02):
do you know it or you'd believe it. I have
a lot of beliefs, but the nones, there's only a
few of those, and those are very precious. And that
was one where he says he just he felt like
we are there's signs that were in the matrix, and
so that was really interesting. And then with the second one,
(17:22):
Life Beyond Earth, Dinah Pasoka is our main featured interview
there and she opens up about the Vatican and how
the Vatican has had an extraterrestrial program for decades. I
don't know about you. I had no idea about that,
and that she was one of the only women academia
(17:44):
who were allowed to go into the Vatican's secret library.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Hit it up by Father Balducci.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I think, yes, yes, And so to look at that
and go, okay, so maybe the Vatican, maybe the Church
learned that, you know, maybe Galileo was onto something, and
let's not get caught next time. And so we're going
to make sure that we have our own program. And so,
(18:11):
as you'll see in the documentary, they have several high
powered telescopes. I mean some of these telescopes at the
time that they were created were some of the best
cutting edge telescopes all over the world, and so you know,
that blew my mind. And then we got into I
don't it sounds fantastical, but non human intelligence downloads and
(18:37):
so all of those just went on and on and
next level. And at some point I can't tell when
these documentaries are done, it becomes that was the other thing.
It's like, how do I know? Because it was just
going to be one documentary. Then it ballooned up and
became two, and it actually became four, and so the
other two are being worked.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
One.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I can tell you that the next one is going
to be all about the experiencers. But these two it
you know, these documentaries get to a certain point, it's like, okay,
this this whole idea is kind of wrapped up in
what the thesis is. So the first one is where
do they come from? And so we focus on that
(19:19):
and that's the only perspective. The second one is why
are they coming here? Which is the paramount question.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Why listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight
at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to
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