August 25, 2025 • 17 mins
Guest Host George Knapp and author Andy Thomas discuss paranormal experiences and the differences between ghosts and poltergeists.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Andy before the breakout, was talking about the belief that's
expressed by the debunkers that people are just looking for
fame and fortune when they come forward with strange stories.
That is not your experience after interacting with the public
for all these years, is it?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
No, it isn't.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I mean, one of the attempts that I'm trying to
make here was strange is to show that. And I'm
not saying necessarily that the book has the biggest and
the best and the most famous cases ever, although it.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Does refer to some of those.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
The point that I'm trying to make is this is
what's happening all the time to normal folk who don't
have an ax to grind.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
They don't want fame.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
They didn't even know that anybody would even be interested
in this story until they met someone like me say,
and that I think is a really important point. So
by gathering all these different testimonies and stories, what I'm
trying to do is but bind a narrative together, so
it isn't just a book of staccato individual stories. In
(01:02):
the end, they begin to tell a story and of
course I analyze them and try to work out what's
going on here? If the skeptics are wrong, what else
could be going on here? But as the book goes on,
you realize that this is just an ongoing part of
our society, of our civilization that we've covered in a
very foolish way, in my view, and that if we
(01:24):
actually uncovered that and began to look at it, the
implications for who we are as a species and what's
going on in the world. It's absolutely massive. And what
I'm trying to do also is to say, let's understand
this and let's celebrate it. Let's not keep seeing it
as an aberration, because scientists are forever telling us that,
(01:46):
you know, through quantum research, whatever, that the universe is
a very strange place. Time seems to go backwards and forwards.
Things can coexist in different places. The universe is a
leaky place. It doesn't run for may to be. When
you look at that, you think, well, the paranormal actually
is probably an inevitability rather than an aberration. Let's start
(02:10):
treating it like that and accept it as a part
of our world, and then maybe more people can come
on board and we can all be open about it
and we can start to research it properly, because you know,
one day, I believe science will explain all of this,
but not the current scientism.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That's the problem we've got.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Real science should look at everything, and I do believe
the time will come when it will.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, and those things that you discussed in this book
would no longer be considered paranormal, meaning outside of what
we know, right.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I mean, listen, the paranormal is, of course just science
that we haven't yet identified.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Everything in the end has an explanation.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And the supernatural, which can be the same as the paranormal,
not always, but you know, it just means beyond paranormal
means it's a mixture of Latin and Greek. It means
beyond the normal. People assume therefore you mean supernatural, and
there's a crossover there. So if something very unusual happens,
you know it's beyond the normal, you can say it's paranormal.
(03:11):
But supernatural certainly does imply the existence of other realities.
And of course, again you know, that's what scientists keep
telling us, that there are other realities. But if you
then presume that those are going to cross over into
our world every now and then, as for instance, events
that skin walk arage might seem to suggest. Then they
can't go there. Then they shut you down. And that
(03:33):
makes no sense to me at all.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, when you think about our senses, you know, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting,
they developed over millennia in order for us to be
able to navigate this world and survive. But scientists will
admit to you that most of reality we can't sense it.
We can't see wi fi, you know, X rays or
(03:57):
something like that. You know, things that are realities now
would have been witchcraft two centuries ago. And we don't
see a dark matter. We haven't found it yet, which
is ninety some percent of the universe. So it's a
basic fact that so much of reality that goes on
around us we can't sense even if we wanted to.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Yeah, that's a very good point, and I make that
point actually in the book that many of the things
we are supposed to accept the scientific principles actually haven't
yet been proved, dark matter being a very good example,
and I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but you know
that's something you're expected to take on trust. But when
you say, well, why don't you take on trust, say,
(04:40):
all these ghost experiences or out of body experiences or
psychic phenomena, whatever it may be, which I discussed at length,
why can't you then accept it just because you haven't
personally experienced that maybe it does exist, but it's all no, no, no,
of course that can't exist. So there's a double standard here,
which is very annoy.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You've developed the paranormal top ten and have it in
this book on page fourteen, meaning the phenomena that you
hear about the most, and number one is ghosts and
pulper days. And you've had some experiences yourself, right.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah. It's funny because until I came to write this book,
I never really thought that much about how many strange
things had happened to me.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
As well. I knew that'd been a cluple and I thought, well,
I'll share them in the.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Book because it's important then to see why I do
take other people seriously. And then actually, by the time
i'd written down all the things that had happened to me, yeah,
I realized I've got a lot of weird stuff I
haven't know, and that's I think similar to a lot
of people. But we screened might work, but we're time
replayed twice over.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Where that story tell us. I mean, I mean, that
is an amazing story. Really.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
I was about twelve or thirteen. My grandfather was very ill.
We knew he was due to die at some point,
but we thought he had a few months to go.
So my family we went on holiday and we were
staying in a kinlistatic trailer in the countryside, nice place,
and one morning I looked out of the window and
(06:14):
there I saw coming down the road my mother.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
There was a path coming down to the trailer, and
she was crying, and I thought, oh, no, I knew.
I thought, I bet my grandfather's died. Anyway.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
She came in and absolutely he had, and there was tears,
and my sisters were there, and you know, my father
was trying to comfort her. And this went on for
several minutes, and then I woke up and it was like, oh,
oh God, it was a dream. It was a very
real dream. And I was very relieved, as you would be,
that it was only a dream. But then I had
(06:52):
a really weird feeling. I looked out the window just
as I had in the dream, and there in reality
as my mother walking down the path, crying, and then
everything that unfolded over the next few minutes was exactly
what I had just already experienced. And I knew exactly
(07:13):
who was going to do, what they were going to say,
who was going to cross the room to get a
tissue over there, or whatever it might be, And it
was I was standing there like in war and almost
like shaken, like I don't understand. I know what's going
to happen. I've lived this already, and thankfully when it
got to the moment where previously then I had woken up,
(07:34):
I didn't re wake up again, and then time just
took its normal course, and I was utterly astonished. And
of course in all the drama, nobody wanted to hear
my story back then, But over the years I've told
me and said, look, it's like I experienced that twice.
And of course now over the years I've met other
(07:55):
people who've had very strange experiences with time. They've slipped
back through time, you know, and again you begin to realize,
maybe this is.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Actually not so impossible.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
That sometimes time jumps tracks and sometimes it gets stuck
in a groove and briefly replays itself. And I've experienced
that for myself, and I was so vivid, you know,
I remember it perfectly today. So this kind of thing
it does go on. I know it happens because I
hear from other people. But I also know it happens
(08:26):
because I've had so many things that occurred to me
as well.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You break down a ghostly type of phenomena into many
different categories and have stories to back them all up,
one of them being visitations after death. I think I
think almost every family I know has some sort of
an example of that that's in family lore, that they
whisper to you in a special moment there where somebody dies,
(08:52):
then they visit their loved ones. Can you share some
of those with us?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:58):
And the very point that you make there that's astonishing,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah? Exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
So many of us know people who you know, when
a relative has passed away, they'll have some interaction with them,
and it generally it's only in the few days after
they go and then on the whole it seems to end,
although not always. Sometimes there is an ongoing interaction where
you know, the past relative will appear and they'll even
have full conversations or whatever. I have heard this over
(09:27):
and over from so many people. But reductionists say, well,
of course you miss these people. You know you want
this to occur, so you imagine it occurred. And that's
just not good enough, especially when you know, I've interviewed
a number of people where two or more people were
present when the apparition occurred. So how are they all
(09:48):
having the same trick of the mind.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
They can't be.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And you know, the point that I make is there's
been people in my life who I've lost, who I
would have loved to have seen again, and they didn't
appear to me. So just willing it to happen doesn't
make it happen, no matter what the skeptics might say.
So you then begin to realize, okay, so this would
appear to be real. There seems to be almost like
(10:12):
when you cross from this world into whatever the next
world may be, there's a grace moment where you get
a little bit of a chance to go back and
just tie up a few loose ends, just comfort some
of the people that you know you've left behind. And
it's usually one, occasionally two people that perhaps that other
person is very close to, and it's it is very
(10:34):
comforting to those that have this experience, it's almost like
you realize the essence of that person has not gone,
it's become something else. And yet you know it's so
reduced with this patronizing or you just imagined it.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
It's not good enough, and.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
It's not good enough to explain many other ghost sightings
and indeed a lot of other paranormal phenomena that need much,
much greater consideration.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What are your subcategories as about people who die they
appear to a loved one who does not know that
they're dead, and then later the loved one finds out
that at the time that this person was visiting and
talking to them, they were already gone.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, absolutely, this is another thing is so especially if
people die and it's not very nice, but if they
die quickly in like a car accident or something, it's strange.
That seems to be often when it's almost like the
spirit call it what you will, it's got shocked out
of the body and it at that very moment, so
(11:34):
it goes somewhere where.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It's comfortable or it's used to being.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And so a relative then we'll just see this person
at the door, or they'll see them in the house.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So Hello, what are you doing here? I thought you
were out and about today, And there.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Will usually be again a kind of a message of
comfort saying, oh, no, I just wanted to say hello,
and so I just popped in to see you. And
then the relative leaves the house or whatever, and they
on and the other ones left thinking I don't understand
what was that about, and then they discover, usually not
long after that, that was the exact moment where that
(12:10):
person had been killed.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And it's almost like there's there's there's.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
This weird liminal time where you get a chance to
just interact before you then cross over elsewhere. And that
is again something that is so common. And the fact
that these people that you know, the living sea are
so real that they don't even know they're a ghost.
They're not sitting there shimmering. They just look normal tells
(12:33):
you something. You know, that ghosts are not always a
person in a white sheet. You know, this is this
is normality. It just looks normal, and yet of course
it isn't normal in the accepted sense of that. But yeah,
it's going on all the time. And of course there's
many other kinds of ghosts where the more classic ones
where it's not someone you know, and people will see
(12:55):
somebody can walk out of a wall and walk into
another wall or whatever. And I've made for instance, tour
guides in old historical buildings who've been present where the
whole group of people witness this. So again that's not
one thing going on in one person's mind. That is
a phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You draw a distinction between ghosts and poultergeist, of course,
I want you to explain that in this context you
had mentioned skinwalker rant. So there's a lot of really
strange activity there that probably would be closer to the
Poultergeist category. Things moving around doors, slamming drawers, opening groceries,
going back in bags and higher cords of wood that
(13:34):
move around, and equipment that goes missing and is found
in odd places later. I know that the scientists and
investigators who were looking at that they kind of called
it Poultergeist. They don't mean it's a ghost or a spirit.
It just compared it to what we know about Poultergeist activity.
So how do you draw the distinction ghost to Poultergeist.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
I mean, one thing that I think is worth saying
here is so if we accept as we keep being
told scientists that it is a multi dimensional universe and
that there are other levels of existence. You also have
to accept that occasionally they must cross over into our world.
And I think places like skinwalk garage or very haunted houses,
(14:15):
for instance, they're basically portals. For some reason, something has
torn time and space open at that place and it
becomes a weak point where beings from these other realms
can come through. Now, some may be the spirits of
people who've gone. Others may be aliens of some kind,
or just other realm creatures. You can call them angels,
(14:37):
you call them demons. What to me it is is
a spectrum. There are multi dimensions, and things crossover, and
maybe they're all and none of these things, but there
is something that binds together. And as the book goes on,
you start to see that actually all of this meets
in the middle, and when you accept the universe is leaky,
(14:57):
it makes sense. So poltergeist te activity is often associated
with ghosts, and I know there are some psychic researchers
who say it's nothing to do with spirits and ghosts.
It is a psychic phenomena. Often it would seem associated
with an adolescent child. More often than not female, and
it may well be the case there is some psychokinetic
(15:20):
force that can move objects they don't even know they're
doing it. However, what I would say is in my
personal experience, and I discussed this in Strange there is
normally ghost activity of a more traditional kind also going on.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
And again it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Seems to me that maybe there is a place or
there is a person in the house that is acting
as a living portal that will bring through not only
their own psychokinetic powers, but also they're somehow opening doorways
for spirits to come through at the same time. To me,
it is linked, and I don't go down the road
that it is a completely separate phenomenon. It can be,
(15:58):
but equally I see there is a crossover. And the
more you look at the different cases that I recount
in the book, the more you realize, yeah, okay, there
is something joined together here. And often politiceist activity of
things moving around or flying around will often then give
rise to the full sighting of an apparition of a
(16:20):
person or a ghost or some kind of being.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
So to me it is related here.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You look at Hollywood movies, the ghost movies are often
pretty scary, and you know. I know that from your
book and others that I've read, these encounters can be
wrighting the heck out of somebody. You don't know what
it is, and it is spooky, but also you look
at the big picture as you document, it becomes very
comforting in a way that we learn that somehow that
(16:49):
part of us, the part that's infinite, I guess, goes on,
maybe go somewhere else, but it's still around.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Easter and go to Coast to Coasta m
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Andy before the breakout, was talking about the belief that's
expressed by the debunkers that people are just looking for
fame and fortune when they come forward with strange stories.
That is not your experience after interacting with the public
for all these years, is it?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
No, it isn't.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I mean, one of the attempts that I'm trying to
make here was strange is to show that. And I'm
not saying necessarily that the book has the biggest and
the best and the most famous cases ever, although it.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Does refer to some of those.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
The point that I'm trying to make is this is
what's happening all the time to normal folk who don't
have an ax to grind.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
They don't want fame.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
They didn't even know that anybody would even be interested
in this story until they met someone like me say,
and that I think is a really important point. So
by gathering all these different testimonies and stories, what I'm
trying to do is but bind a narrative together, so
it isn't just a book of staccato individual stories. In
(01:02):
the end, they begin to tell a story and of
course I analyze them and try to work out what's
going on here? If the skeptics are wrong, what else
could be going on here? But as the book goes on,
you realize that this is just an ongoing part of
our society, of our civilization that we've covered in a
very foolish way, in my view, and that if we
(01:24):
actually uncovered that and began to look at it, the
implications for who we are as a species and what's
going on in the world. It's absolutely massive. And what
I'm trying to do also is to say, let's understand
this and let's celebrate it. Let's not keep seeing it
as an aberration, because scientists are forever telling us that,
(01:46):
you know, through quantum research, whatever, that the universe is
a very strange place. Time seems to go backwards and forwards.
Things can coexist in different places. The universe is a
leaky place. It doesn't run for may to be. When
you look at that, you think, well, the paranormal actually
is probably an inevitability rather than an aberration. Let's start
(02:10):
treating it like that and accept it as a part
of our world, and then maybe more people can come
on board and we can all be open about it
and we can start to research it properly, because you know,
one day, I believe science will explain all of this,
but not the current scientism.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That's the problem we've got.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Real science should look at everything, and I do believe
the time will come when it will.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, and those things that you discussed in this book
would no longer be considered paranormal, meaning outside of what
we know, right.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I mean, listen, the paranormal is, of course just science
that we haven't yet identified.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Everything in the end has an explanation.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And the supernatural, which can be the same as the paranormal,
not always, but you know, it just means beyond paranormal
means it's a mixture of Latin and Greek. It means
beyond the normal. People assume therefore you mean supernatural, and
there's a crossover there. So if something very unusual happens,
you know it's beyond the normal, you can say it's paranormal.
(03:11):
But supernatural certainly does imply the existence of other realities.
And of course, again you know, that's what scientists keep
telling us, that there are other realities. But if you
then presume that those are going to cross over into
our world every now and then, as for instance, events
that skin walk arage might seem to suggest. Then they
can't go there. Then they shut you down. And that
(03:33):
makes no sense to me at all.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, when you think about our senses, you know, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting,
they developed over millennia in order for us to be
able to navigate this world and survive. But scientists will
admit to you that most of reality we can't sense it.
We can't see wi fi, you know, X rays or
(03:57):
something like that. You know, things that are realities now
would have been witchcraft two centuries ago. And we don't
see a dark matter. We haven't found it yet, which
is ninety some percent of the universe. So it's a
basic fact that so much of reality that goes on
around us we can't sense even if we wanted to.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Yeah, that's a very good point, and I make that
point actually in the book that many of the things
we are supposed to accept the scientific principles actually haven't
yet been proved, dark matter being a very good example,
and I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but you know
that's something you're expected to take on trust. But when
you say, well, why don't you take on trust, say,
(04:40):
all these ghost experiences or out of body experiences or
psychic phenomena, whatever it may be, which I discussed at length,
why can't you then accept it just because you haven't
personally experienced that maybe it does exist, but it's all no, no, no,
of course that can't exist. So there's a double standard here,
which is very annoy.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You've developed the paranormal top ten and have it in
this book on page fourteen, meaning the phenomena that you
hear about the most, and number one is ghosts and
pulper days. And you've had some experiences yourself, right.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah. It's funny because until I came to write this book,
I never really thought that much about how many strange
things had happened to me.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
As well. I knew that'd been a cluple and I thought, well,
I'll share them in the.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Book because it's important then to see why I do
take other people seriously. And then actually, by the time
i'd written down all the things that had happened to me, yeah,
I realized I've got a lot of weird stuff I
haven't know, and that's I think similar to a lot
of people. But we screened might work, but we're time
replayed twice over.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Where that story tell us. I mean, I mean, that
is an amazing story. Really.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
I was about twelve or thirteen. My grandfather was very ill.
We knew he was due to die at some point,
but we thought he had a few months to go.
So my family we went on holiday and we were
staying in a kinlistatic trailer in the countryside, nice place,
and one morning I looked out of the window and
(06:14):
there I saw coming down the road my mother.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
There was a path coming down to the trailer, and
she was crying, and I thought, oh, no, I knew.
I thought, I bet my grandfather's died. Anyway.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
She came in and absolutely he had, and there was tears,
and my sisters were there, and you know, my father
was trying to comfort her. And this went on for
several minutes, and then I woke up and it was like, oh,
oh God, it was a dream. It was a very
real dream. And I was very relieved, as you would be,
that it was only a dream. But then I had
(06:52):
a really weird feeling. I looked out the window just
as I had in the dream, and there in reality
as my mother walking down the path, crying, and then
everything that unfolded over the next few minutes was exactly
what I had just already experienced. And I knew exactly
(07:13):
who was going to do, what they were going to say,
who was going to cross the room to get a
tissue over there, or whatever it might be, And it
was I was standing there like in war and almost
like shaken, like I don't understand. I know what's going
to happen. I've lived this already, and thankfully when it
got to the moment where previously then I had woken up,
(07:34):
I didn't re wake up again, and then time just
took its normal course, and I was utterly astonished. And
of course in all the drama, nobody wanted to hear
my story back then, But over the years I've told
me and said, look, it's like I experienced that twice.
And of course now over the years I've met other
(07:55):
people who've had very strange experiences with time. They've slipped
back through time, you know, and again you begin to realize,
maybe this is.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Actually not so impossible.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
That sometimes time jumps tracks and sometimes it gets stuck
in a groove and briefly replays itself. And I've experienced
that for myself, and I was so vivid, you know,
I remember it perfectly today. So this kind of thing
it does go on. I know it happens because I
hear from other people. But I also know it happens
(08:26):
because I've had so many things that occurred to me
as well.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You break down a ghostly type of phenomena into many
different categories and have stories to back them all up,
one of them being visitations after death. I think I
think almost every family I know has some sort of
an example of that that's in family lore, that they
whisper to you in a special moment there where somebody dies,
(08:52):
then they visit their loved ones. Can you share some
of those with us?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:58):
And the very point that you make there that's astonishing,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah? Exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
So many of us know people who you know, when
a relative has passed away, they'll have some interaction with them,
and it generally it's only in the few days after
they go and then on the whole it seems to end,
although not always. Sometimes there is an ongoing interaction where
you know, the past relative will appear and they'll even
have full conversations or whatever. I have heard this over
(09:27):
and over from so many people. But reductionists say, well,
of course you miss these people. You know you want
this to occur, so you imagine it occurred. And that's
just not good enough, especially when you know, I've interviewed
a number of people where two or more people were
present when the apparition occurred. So how are they all
(09:48):
having the same trick of the mind.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
They can't be.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And you know, the point that I make is there's
been people in my life who I've lost, who I
would have loved to have seen again, and they didn't
appear to me. So just willing it to happen doesn't
make it happen, no matter what the skeptics might say.
So you then begin to realize, okay, so this would
appear to be real. There seems to be almost like
(10:12):
when you cross from this world into whatever the next
world may be, there's a grace moment where you get
a little bit of a chance to go back and
just tie up a few loose ends, just comfort some
of the people that you know you've left behind. And
it's usually one, occasionally two people that perhaps that other
person is very close to, and it's it is very
(10:34):
comforting to those that have this experience, it's almost like
you realize the essence of that person has not gone,
it's become something else. And yet you know it's so
reduced with this patronizing or you just imagined it.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
It's not good enough, and.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
It's not good enough to explain many other ghost sightings
and indeed a lot of other paranormal phenomena that need much,
much greater consideration.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What are your subcategories as about people who die they
appear to a loved one who does not know that
they're dead, and then later the loved one finds out
that at the time that this person was visiting and
talking to them, they were already gone.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, absolutely, this is another thing is so especially if
people die and it's not very nice, but if they
die quickly in like a car accident or something, it's strange.
That seems to be often when it's almost like the
spirit call it what you will, it's got shocked out
of the body and it at that very moment, so
(11:34):
it goes somewhere where.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It's comfortable or it's used to being.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And so a relative then we'll just see this person
at the door, or they'll see them in the house.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So Hello, what are you doing here? I thought you
were out and about today, And there.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Will usually be again a kind of a message of
comfort saying, oh, no, I just wanted to say hello,
and so I just popped in to see you. And
then the relative leaves the house or whatever, and they
on and the other ones left thinking I don't understand
what was that about, and then they discover, usually not
long after that, that was the exact moment where that
(12:10):
person had been killed.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And it's almost like there's there's there's.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
This weird liminal time where you get a chance to
just interact before you then cross over elsewhere. And that
is again something that is so common. And the fact
that these people that you know, the living sea are
so real that they don't even know they're a ghost.
They're not sitting there shimmering. They just look normal tells
(12:33):
you something. You know, that ghosts are not always a
person in a white sheet. You know, this is this
is normality. It just looks normal, and yet of course
it isn't normal in the accepted sense of that. But yeah,
it's going on all the time. And of course there's
many other kinds of ghosts where the more classic ones
where it's not someone you know, and people will see
(12:55):
somebody can walk out of a wall and walk into
another wall or whatever. And I've made for instance, tour
guides in old historical buildings who've been present where the
whole group of people witness this. So again that's not
one thing going on in one person's mind. That is
a phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You draw a distinction between ghosts and poultergeist, of course,
I want you to explain that in this context you
had mentioned skinwalker rant. So there's a lot of really
strange activity there that probably would be closer to the
Poultergeist category. Things moving around doors, slamming drawers, opening groceries,
going back in bags and higher cords of wood that
(13:34):
move around, and equipment that goes missing and is found
in odd places later. I know that the scientists and
investigators who were looking at that they kind of called
it Poultergeist. They don't mean it's a ghost or a spirit.
It just compared it to what we know about Poultergeist activity.
So how do you draw the distinction ghost to Poultergeist.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
I mean, one thing that I think is worth saying
here is so if we accept as we keep being
told scientists that it is a multi dimensional universe and
that there are other levels of existence. You also have
to accept that occasionally they must cross over into our world.
And I think places like skinwalk garage or very haunted houses,
(14:15):
for instance, they're basically portals. For some reason, something has
torn time and space open at that place and it
becomes a weak point where beings from these other realms
can come through. Now, some may be the spirits of
people who've gone. Others may be aliens of some kind,
or just other realm creatures. You can call them angels,
(14:37):
you call them demons. What to me it is is
a spectrum. There are multi dimensions, and things crossover, and
maybe they're all and none of these things, but there
is something that binds together. And as the book goes on,
you start to see that actually all of this meets
in the middle, and when you accept the universe is leaky,
(14:57):
it makes sense. So poltergeist te activity is often associated
with ghosts, and I know there are some psychic researchers
who say it's nothing to do with spirits and ghosts.
It is a psychic phenomena. Often it would seem associated
with an adolescent child. More often than not female, and
it may well be the case there is some psychokinetic
(15:20):
force that can move objects they don't even know they're
doing it. However, what I would say is in my
personal experience, and I discussed this in Strange there is
normally ghost activity of a more traditional kind also going on.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
And again it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Seems to me that maybe there is a place or
there is a person in the house that is acting
as a living portal that will bring through not only
their own psychokinetic powers, but also they're somehow opening doorways
for spirits to come through at the same time. To me,
it is linked, and I don't go down the road
that it is a completely separate phenomenon. It can be,
(15:58):
but equally I see there is a crossover. And the
more you look at the different cases that I recount
in the book, the more you realize, yeah, okay, there
is something joined together here. And often politiceist activity of
things moving around or flying around will often then give
rise to the full sighting of an apparition of a
(16:20):
person or a ghost or some kind of being.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
So to me it is related here.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You look at Hollywood movies, the ghost movies are often
pretty scary, and you know. I know that from your
book and others that I've read, these encounters can be
wrighting the heck out of somebody. You don't know what
it is, and it is spooky, but also you look
at the big picture as you document, it becomes very
comforting in a way that we learn that somehow that
(16:49):
part of us, the part that's infinite, I guess, goes on,
maybe go somewhere else, but it's still around.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
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