September 29, 2025 • 12 mins
Guest host George Knapp and The Debrief co-founder Micha Hanks discuss the journalistic parameters of covering objects hurtling through space.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Tell me about the debrief. What are the parameters for
the topic should cover? How many underlings do you boss around?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Are you the kind of boss that cracks the web
kind of a thing and times them for when they
get into the office.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah, only when they misbehave right. Yeah, But we do
have a very good group of people who are, of course,
you know, contributing in a range of different areas. If
I had to try and say, really, what the debrief
team and I are primarily focused on, it's really disruptive technology.
But there's a lot of science, a lot of astronomy.
And again that's really been the case recently with all
the buzz surrounding three I Atlas, the third confirmed interstellar
(00:39):
object passing through our planetary you know, neighborhood to hear
the solar system, and so there's been a lot of
attention on that. But I mean we cover defense too,
we cover you know, science, technology, a range of things,
and so you know, it's always business when you have
something strange careening through our solar system. Business has been
good lately. I think, yeah, we're going to get into
(01:02):
that in a second. I mean, the debrief has broken
some big stories. I remember the David Grush interview that
was that's where it was first read, first scene, And
is there anything that's off limits? When when writers who
contribute to your publication they come in with some wild idea,
you say, no, that's just too far out. Well, you know, yah,
sometimes we do have to kind of rain things in
(01:22):
a little. I mean it's important and again, you know,
really taking so many cues from your playbook. I mean,
being a veteran reporter who you know, whose work I've
followed for such a long time, George, and you know
that you've got to get to the bottom of the story,
and you've got to vet every source. You've got to
try and determine, you know, when people bring you a story.
As the editor, my job is to say, okay, you know,
let's look at the who, what we're when, and why.
(01:44):
But then also we all we really need to try
and take a different approach from what so many other
sites are reporting, the kinds of things, the kinds of
news that you see elsewhere. Make sure that there is
a unique perspective provided. But certainly something that I think
also offers the credibility factor, which is again what the
UAP topic has so long needed. I think, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Think there are folks who assume, because it's a wacky
topic like UAP, UFOs are perceived as such that maybe
the journalism standards aren't the same. You can get away
with taking chances and unattributed information or unidentified sources kind
of thing. And it's almost the opposite of that, right,
it's exactly the opposite.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I remember for years laughing about how every UFO story
I'm sure you've seen this, George, everyone either started or
ends with the truth is out there, but and then
comes crazy claim, right, and it's always treated like water
water cooler news. The one thing I think that the
team and I hope to try and do, and again
something I think you've done for a long time, treat
(02:45):
this topic like any other science, defense, or technology topic
should be treated. Take it seriously because, as we have
learned in recent years, whatever some UAP represent, they are
potentially also a national security challenge. And now, of course
the US military takes that challenge very seriously with the
ul Domated Anomaly Resolution Office.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Back to three I atlas this comment, so I saw
some fiery remarks on social media earlier tonight from doctor
Avi Lobe, the esteemed Harvard astronomer who has raised a
lot of intriguing questions about what he thinks are unusual
properties associated with this comment in this Interstellar Visitor. At
one point, doctor Loebe speculated it could be artificial construct
(03:28):
of some sort sent our way by who knows where.
I saw a debrief article and we posted it on
the website.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Here.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Can you help our listeners get a handle on where
things stand, what is unusual, what if anything is unusual
about this comment?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, certainly. I mean, first of all, let's just be
very clear three eye at lists is extremely unusual. And
again doctor Lobe, again widely recognized expert on you know,
all matters astronomical and astrophysical, and of course, you know,
with his tenure at Harvard there he's somebody who is
you know, very well suited for being able to speak
on these issues. But he's generated some controversy recently for
(04:03):
also saying, listen, there are some aspects about the way
this comet behaves that would lead one to try and
entertain certain notions like, for instance, maybe this could be
a technological artifact, maybe a probe of some kind or
some kind of a spacecraft. For my own part, most
of the evidence seems to point to a comet, but
let's be clear, it's a really weird one. And also,
(04:24):
just to clarify I think some Auvi's perspectives. AVI has
said we should be open to other possibilities, even though
there is an abundance of data, and we'll probably have
more in the next few weeks days. In fact, actually
that will support the combat idea. But again, as far
as what we know and what makes it strange, three
I Atlas was exhibiting some very unusual behaviors since it
(04:46):
was first detected on July first. It's moving extremely fast.
It also appeared to be producing this sort of a
cloud or a haze that's almost like a cometary tale.
But it was in front of the object, which is
a little counterintuitive. You used to seeing that behind the
object with relation to its direction of movement. Now, as
doctor Lobe pointed out, the trajectory that three Eye Atlas
(05:09):
is taking is also going to be bringing it fairly
close to both the planet Mars and also to the
planet Jupiter. And then eventually sometime next year, it's going
to take back off, leave our Solar system and resume
its interstellar journey through space. For Avi Lobe. He has said, again,
you know the path it is taking, some of these
other peculiar characteristics we've seen, this certainly should leave open
(05:30):
the possibility that we could be dealing with something a
little different from a comet. Now, others have said, yeah,
it is a little weird, but then again, we've never
really seen a comet from outside of well, I mean,
we've seen a couple of predecessors o Muamua and the
comet Bosov. This is only the third one that we've
actually observed from outside our solar system, and so naturally
(05:51):
it's going to behave a little differently because it is
quite literally an alien visitor in the sense that it
came from someplace else.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I haven't read enough to know the answer this, so
maybe you do. But are we going to get a
chance to get a closer look and actually answer this
or something that's always going to be debated.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So that's another one of the unique things that again
doctor Loeb and others have pointed out. At its closest approach,
George three eye, Aatlys is essentially going to go behind
the Sun. So that's really frustrating for you know, astronomy
enthusiasts like me who'd really like to get a good
look at this object. But fortunately, on October third, it's
going to be making its closest approach to planet Mars,
(06:28):
and we happen to have a camera on board the
Mars Reconnaissance orbit are called the high Rise Camera, and
we're hoping we can actually direct the high Rise Camera
in the direction of three eye atlasts and get some
really good images. Those might actually be the best ones
we have had to date. I don't know, they may
end up being some of the best we'll get period,
although there are other NASA missions, other spacecraft out there
(06:51):
that will be able to observe this comet as it
makes its way through the Solar System, So within just
the next few days we may get the best look
that we're going to get. And certainly, if there's anything
really unusual about this comet, then's probably going to be
when we will spot them and we may have to
get back together and talk about this again. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
You know, I'm not surprised to see the general astronomy
profession quite issue some fairly haughty remarks about this the
suggestion it might be something other than a regular comet.
They think it's just a plain old comet and nothing
to see here. It's not exactly a huge surprise. Anything
suggesting there's something out of the ordinary or anomalous about
(07:31):
it is going to send them scurrying.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Right, that's true. And you know again, I know we're
going to get into the UAP discussion a little later,
but I'll just draw a kind of a parallel here.
There was a time when astronomers didn't know that rocks
actually fell from the sky. You know, things right today? Right,
we still see people so certain when they say, well,
we know UAF couldn't be from outer space, they couldn't
(07:54):
be this or that. I always ask, well, how do
you really know? I mean, you really should not rule
out pop disabilities. You can say one thing is less
likely than another, but explore all possibilities collected at let
that data speak for itself. And again, no matter where
you fall on the three I atlis debate. Again, I
happen to think it's a common I really do, but
you cannot deny that it is a very very strange common.
(08:16):
It's unlike any that we've really ever.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Seen yeah, it doesn't hurt anyone to keep their minds
open about it, and especially since we're going to get
at least a closer look and maybe some mansers really soon.
So second sort of hot topic is the mystery drones
that are now over Scandinavian countries, Denmark and Norway and
maybe somewhere else by now. But you know this is
the Brief wrote a bunch of articles about the New
(08:38):
Jersey drones that persisted for weeks or months. Unknown craft
that shut down Langley Air Force Base a little under
a year ago, hovered over other sensitive installations bases, weapons
storage areas, nuke plants shut down right Patterson Airbase, made
troubling incursions, and Plant forty two in southern California where
all the high tech stuff gets designed and before it
(09:00):
gets sent to Area fifty one. So these airports in
Denmark were shut down at least for a while. Then
drones went on to Norway. Jet fighters were scrambled. No
one seems to be able to see them coming in,
no one seems to be able to bring them down,
and when they leave they can't be tracked. I mean,
those are pretty nifty drones when you think, oh.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I would think so, And in fact, it seems like
deja vu all over again after what happened late last year, right,
you know, backing up for just a moment, you know,
and as you mentioned, we had the flap last year,
not just with what happened over New Jersey, but again
there were also a rash of sightings over US airbases
operating in the United Kingdom, and by the end of
(09:40):
last year, most were looking at this and saying, okay,
it's probably kind of, you know, a flap. There's a
bit of a panic going on here. People are looking
up and they think they're seeing drones, but really it's
mostly planes and celestial objects. Now, it is true there
were a lot of misidentifications, but George I also had
been in contact with military officials at look like Picatinny
(10:01):
Arsenal in New Jersey and they said, there are a
bunch of suspected sidings that we can't confirm, but there
were around twelve, you know, close to a dozen confirmed
drone sidings that we saw now that didn't again imply
that there was something anomalous per se in those instances.
They were simply saying drones. So we're now seeing this
same sort of a situation erupt. As you mentioned. In Denmark,
(10:22):
we had you know, Copenhagen Airport primarily, but also the
Oslo Airport with several unidentified drones disrupting airspace there. They've
now wheeled in the big guns, so to speak, because
they've now deployed a brand new what's called the Zena
CEE counter Uas radar at Copenhagen Airport. This is a
specially designed radar system with high performance three D air
(10:44):
surveillance I mean rotor, micro doppler detection, all kinds of
different things, and also a full three sixty volume surveillance capability.
This system, in other words, is specially designed to detect
small light aircraft like these drones. But one of the
things that was really concerning about the incidents there ink
is and this actually the very words used by Jess
Jesperson who's a police inspector looking into this. He said,
(11:07):
it seemed like there was a capable actor. They said
that whoever was flying these drones, it seemed almost like
they were doing tricks, like they were just testing the abilities.
They weren't worried about whether people saw them or not.
They hoped to be seen and they seemed to be
trying to attract attention. So whoever's operating these drones, it's
of course possible it's a state actress. Many have pointed
the finger at Russia. That hasn't been confirmed. But if
(11:29):
that's the case, yet again, this is something that should
be taken very seriously and it should be concerning for people.
Now one last point. There are also those who would say, yeah,
but you know, we aren't really even sure that any
of these sightings of drones have been confirmed. All I
can tell you is that right now, based on the
descriptions provided by Danish officials and also those in Norway,
it sounds an awful lot like somebody is playing around
(11:50):
with drones over these, you know, these locations. But with
that new radar system in place, if there was any
doubt before, hopefully in the next few days we will
be able to confirm and I hope that we have
an idea of who's doing this, because it's very concerning
stuff and concerning times.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern and go to Coast tocoastam dot com
for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Tell me about the debrief. What are the parameters for
the topic should cover? How many underlings do you boss around?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Are you the kind of boss that cracks the web
kind of a thing and times them for when they
get into the office.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah, only when they misbehave right. Yeah, But we do
have a very good group of people who are, of course,
you know, contributing in a range of different areas. If
I had to try and say, really, what the debrief
team and I are primarily focused on, it's really disruptive technology.
But there's a lot of science, a lot of astronomy.
And again that's really been the case recently with all
the buzz surrounding three I Atlas, the third confirmed interstellar
(00:39):
object passing through our planetary you know, neighborhood to hear
the solar system, and so there's been a lot of
attention on that. But I mean we cover defense too,
we cover you know, science, technology, a range of things,
and so you know, it's always business when you have
something strange careening through our solar system. Business has been
good lately. I think, yeah, we're going to get into
(01:02):
that in a second. I mean, the debrief has broken
some big stories. I remember the David Grush interview that
was that's where it was first read, first scene, And
is there anything that's off limits? When when writers who
contribute to your publication they come in with some wild idea,
you say, no, that's just too far out. Well, you know, yah,
sometimes we do have to kind of rain things in
(01:22):
a little. I mean it's important and again, you know,
really taking so many cues from your playbook. I mean,
being a veteran reporter who you know, whose work I've
followed for such a long time, George, and you know
that you've got to get to the bottom of the story,
and you've got to vet every source. You've got to
try and determine, you know, when people bring you a story.
As the editor, my job is to say, okay, you know,
let's look at the who, what we're when, and why.
(01:44):
But then also we all we really need to try
and take a different approach from what so many other
sites are reporting, the kinds of things, the kinds of
news that you see elsewhere. Make sure that there is
a unique perspective provided. But certainly something that I think
also offers the credibility factor, which is again what the
UAP topic has so long needed. I think, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Think there are folks who assume, because it's a wacky
topic like UAP, UFOs are perceived as such that maybe
the journalism standards aren't the same. You can get away
with taking chances and unattributed information or unidentified sources kind
of thing. And it's almost the opposite of that, right,
it's exactly the opposite.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I remember for years laughing about how every UFO story
I'm sure you've seen this, George, everyone either started or
ends with the truth is out there, but and then
comes crazy claim, right, and it's always treated like water
water cooler news. The one thing I think that the
team and I hope to try and do, and again
something I think you've done for a long time, treat
(02:45):
this topic like any other science, defense, or technology topic
should be treated. Take it seriously because, as we have
learned in recent years, whatever some UAP represent, they are
potentially also a national security challenge. And now, of course
the US military takes that challenge very seriously with the
ul Domated Anomaly Resolution Office.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Back to three I atlas this comment, so I saw
some fiery remarks on social media earlier tonight from doctor
Avi Lobe, the esteemed Harvard astronomer who has raised a
lot of intriguing questions about what he thinks are unusual
properties associated with this comment in this Interstellar Visitor. At
one point, doctor Loebe speculated it could be artificial construct
(03:28):
of some sort sent our way by who knows where.
I saw a debrief article and we posted it on
the website.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Here.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Can you help our listeners get a handle on where
things stand, what is unusual, what if anything is unusual
about this comment?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, certainly. I mean, first of all, let's just be
very clear three eye at lists is extremely unusual. And
again doctor Lobe, again widely recognized expert on you know,
all matters astronomical and astrophysical, and of course, you know,
with his tenure at Harvard there he's somebody who is
you know, very well suited for being able to speak
on these issues. But he's generated some controversy recently for
(04:03):
also saying, listen, there are some aspects about the way
this comet behaves that would lead one to try and
entertain certain notions like, for instance, maybe this could be
a technological artifact, maybe a probe of some kind or
some kind of a spacecraft. For my own part, most
of the evidence seems to point to a comet, but
let's be clear, it's a really weird one. And also,
(04:24):
just to clarify I think some Auvi's perspectives. AVI has
said we should be open to other possibilities, even though
there is an abundance of data, and we'll probably have
more in the next few weeks days. In fact, actually
that will support the combat idea. But again, as far
as what we know and what makes it strange, three
I Atlas was exhibiting some very unusual behaviors since it
(04:46):
was first detected on July first. It's moving extremely fast.
It also appeared to be producing this sort of a
cloud or a haze that's almost like a cometary tale.
But it was in front of the object, which is
a little counterintuitive. You used to seeing that behind the
object with relation to its direction of movement. Now, as
doctor Lobe pointed out, the trajectory that three Eye Atlas
(05:09):
is taking is also going to be bringing it fairly
close to both the planet Mars and also to the
planet Jupiter. And then eventually sometime next year, it's going
to take back off, leave our Solar system and resume
its interstellar journey through space. For Avi Lobe. He has said, again,
you know the path it is taking, some of these
other peculiar characteristics we've seen, this certainly should leave open
(05:30):
the possibility that we could be dealing with something a
little different from a comet. Now, others have said, yeah,
it is a little weird, but then again, we've never
really seen a comet from outside of well, I mean,
we've seen a couple of predecessors o Muamua and the
comet Bosov. This is only the third one that we've
actually observed from outside our solar system, and so naturally
(05:51):
it's going to behave a little differently because it is
quite literally an alien visitor in the sense that it
came from someplace else.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I haven't read enough to know the answer this, so
maybe you do. But are we going to get a
chance to get a closer look and actually answer this
or something that's always going to be debated.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So that's another one of the unique things that again
doctor Loeb and others have pointed out. At its closest approach,
George three eye, Aatlys is essentially going to go behind
the Sun. So that's really frustrating for you know, astronomy
enthusiasts like me who'd really like to get a good
look at this object. But fortunately, on October third, it's
going to be making its closest approach to planet Mars,
(06:28):
and we happen to have a camera on board the
Mars Reconnaissance orbit are called the high Rise Camera, and
we're hoping we can actually direct the high Rise Camera
in the direction of three eye atlasts and get some
really good images. Those might actually be the best ones
we have had to date. I don't know, they may
end up being some of the best we'll get period,
although there are other NASA missions, other spacecraft out there
(06:51):
that will be able to observe this comet as it
makes its way through the Solar System, So within just
the next few days we may get the best look
that we're going to get. And certainly, if there's anything
really unusual about this comet, then's probably going to be
when we will spot them and we may have to
get back together and talk about this again. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
You know, I'm not surprised to see the general astronomy
profession quite issue some fairly haughty remarks about this the
suggestion it might be something other than a regular comet.
They think it's just a plain old comet and nothing
to see here. It's not exactly a huge surprise. Anything
suggesting there's something out of the ordinary or anomalous about
(07:31):
it is going to send them scurrying.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Right, that's true. And you know again, I know we're
going to get into the UAP discussion a little later,
but I'll just draw a kind of a parallel here.
There was a time when astronomers didn't know that rocks
actually fell from the sky. You know, things right today? Right,
we still see people so certain when they say, well,
we know UAF couldn't be from outer space, they couldn't
(07:54):
be this or that. I always ask, well, how do
you really know? I mean, you really should not rule
out pop disabilities. You can say one thing is less
likely than another, but explore all possibilities collected at let
that data speak for itself. And again, no matter where
you fall on the three I atlis debate. Again, I
happen to think it's a common I really do, but
you cannot deny that it is a very very strange common.
(08:16):
It's unlike any that we've really ever.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Seen yeah, it doesn't hurt anyone to keep their minds
open about it, and especially since we're going to get
at least a closer look and maybe some mansers really soon.
So second sort of hot topic is the mystery drones
that are now over Scandinavian countries, Denmark and Norway and
maybe somewhere else by now. But you know this is
the Brief wrote a bunch of articles about the New
(08:38):
Jersey drones that persisted for weeks or months. Unknown craft
that shut down Langley Air Force Base a little under
a year ago, hovered over other sensitive installations bases, weapons
storage areas, nuke plants shut down right Patterson Airbase, made
troubling incursions, and Plant forty two in southern California where
all the high tech stuff gets designed and before it
(09:00):
gets sent to Area fifty one. So these airports in
Denmark were shut down at least for a while. Then
drones went on to Norway. Jet fighters were scrambled. No
one seems to be able to see them coming in,
no one seems to be able to bring them down,
and when they leave they can't be tracked. I mean,
those are pretty nifty drones when you think, oh.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I would think so, And in fact, it seems like
deja vu all over again after what happened late last year, right,
you know, backing up for just a moment, you know,
and as you mentioned, we had the flap last year,
not just with what happened over New Jersey, but again
there were also a rash of sightings over US airbases
operating in the United Kingdom, and by the end of
(09:40):
last year, most were looking at this and saying, okay,
it's probably kind of, you know, a flap. There's a
bit of a panic going on here. People are looking
up and they think they're seeing drones, but really it's
mostly planes and celestial objects. Now, it is true there
were a lot of misidentifications, but George I also had
been in contact with military officials at look like Picatinny
(10:01):
Arsenal in New Jersey and they said, there are a
bunch of suspected sidings that we can't confirm, but there
were around twelve, you know, close to a dozen confirmed
drone sidings that we saw now that didn't again imply
that there was something anomalous per se in those instances.
They were simply saying drones. So we're now seeing this
same sort of a situation erupt. As you mentioned. In Denmark,
(10:22):
we had you know, Copenhagen Airport primarily, but also the
Oslo Airport with several unidentified drones disrupting airspace there. They've
now wheeled in the big guns, so to speak, because
they've now deployed a brand new what's called the Zena
CEE counter Uas radar at Copenhagen Airport. This is a
specially designed radar system with high performance three D air
(10:44):
surveillance I mean rotor, micro doppler detection, all kinds of
different things, and also a full three sixty volume surveillance capability.
This system, in other words, is specially designed to detect
small light aircraft like these drones. But one of the
things that was really concerning about the incidents there ink
is and this actually the very words used by Jess
Jesperson who's a police inspector looking into this. He said,
(11:07):
it seemed like there was a capable actor. They said
that whoever was flying these drones, it seemed almost like
they were doing tricks, like they were just testing the abilities.
They weren't worried about whether people saw them or not.
They hoped to be seen and they seemed to be
trying to attract attention. So whoever's operating these drones, it's
of course possible it's a state actress. Many have pointed
the finger at Russia. That hasn't been confirmed. But if
(11:29):
that's the case, yet again, this is something that should
be taken very seriously and it should be concerning for people.
Now one last point. There are also those who would say, yeah,
but you know, we aren't really even sure that any
of these sightings of drones have been confirmed. All I
can tell you is that right now, based on the
descriptions provided by Danish officials and also those in Norway,
it sounds an awful lot like somebody is playing around
(11:50):
with drones over these, you know, these locations. But with
that new radar system in place, if there was any
doubt before, hopefully in the next few days we will
be able to confirm and I hope that we have
an idea of who's doing this, because it's very concerning
stuff and concerning times.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern and go to Coast tocoastam dot com
for more
The Best of Coast to Coast AM News
Host
George Noory
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