October 8, 2025 • 18 mins
George Noory and author Grant Cameron explore his research into UFOs that began with his own sighting in college, the government's investigation into paranormal phenomena that may be connected to the Roswell UFO crash, and if the aliens themselves control when they will be revealed to the world.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George nor with
you our friend Grant Cameron with US Canadian author, researcher,
historical analysts. With decades of investigative experience, Grant has interviewed
hundreds of experiencers, whistleblowers, government insiders, weaving their testimonies into
paradigm shifting narratives that challenge materialistic assumptions. He's got a
(00:26):
new book out called Beyond Managing Magic, Landing the Plane.
It's his fourth volume in the series. Welcome back, Grant.
How you been been good?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
George, Thanks for having me on. I appreciate your interest.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
How did you get interested in the UFO field in
the first place? How that happened?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm in nineteen seventy five, had no interest whatsoever is
going to university, small town outside of the city I
was living in. I was reporting UFOs nightly, and I
said to my friend, let's go and let's see what
they're doing. And we say, okay, we'll go. And we
didn't go for three months, and then local TV station
got a film of this thing jumping off the ground.
(01:03):
So if you're familiar with the nimits going from ninety
thousand feet down to sea level in seven eighths of
a second, this thing went from ground level to five
thousand feet in the air in about one eighth of
a second. And it was caught on film by this
TV crew. And that's when I said to my friend,
come on, let's go see what they're looking at. And
we drove out there. We drove around this town called
Carmen for about an hour and we didn't see anything,
(01:25):
and I said, my friend said, okay, we'll go into
town one more time. If we don't see anything, let's
go home. And I said, great, this has been a
total waste of time. We turned the car to go
back in, and the thing appeared from the left to
the right, and nobody in the car said, is that
what they're looking at? Is that what everyboy's looking just
there is It's just like almost like it was like, Wow,
there are miracles there, actually are these kind of things happening.
And it came in close enough the first night and
(01:48):
the second night came right at me and sort of
flew away. That I never ever doubted that UFO. So
I always think that the UFO community spends a lot
of time wasting time about the fact that UFOs exist.
But I knew right from the word go there was
absolutely no way this was anything else, and I just
got obsessed with it. The second night it was flying away,
I wondered, what's it doing? It wasn't doing anything. It
(02:09):
was just sort of flying along at a very very
low speed, a plasma, red plasma object. And so I
spent my entire life trying to figure out that question,
what's it doing? What's really going on here? And I
figured I didn't know, but there had to be someone
in the world who knew what was going on.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That's amazing. And now your new book, of course, is
the fourth in a series of the Disclosure Project, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah? And the fifth is sort of written, but I'm
not sure when I'll put it out. But this is
the fourth one. It started with the first one back
in nineteen ninety one when the Area fifty one story
was breaking and the Bob the Area fifty one story,
and we had a number of interviews with a guy
by the name of doctor Eric Walker, who was the
(02:56):
former president of Penn State University. Had fourteen hours and
your doctor degrees, was chairman of the board of the
major military think tank in the United States. He was
identified as one of the guys who started to cover
up with Vanovar Bush, and he answered a lot of
our questions in rhymes and riddles, told us we are
wasting our time. This is just curiosity. Why she changed
(03:18):
the rules and regulations satisfy your curiosity. And I just
went from person to person trying to figure out who knew.
That's why I spent maybe thirty years looking at the president,
because I figured, well, the president of the United States
got to know. He's the most powerful guy in the world.
He's got to know. And that led to experiencers understanding
(03:38):
that there are people who are actually interacting with the phenomena.
So we spent a lot of time looking at UFO
sightings and colors of UFOs and stuff, and we have
totally ignored the people who are actually in contact with
the phenomena. And that's where I figured the answer had
to be. And so I spent a lot of time
with experiencers, and I spent now a lot of time
(04:00):
with people who I believe are in the field, so
we'd be people like trans channelers, trans mediums people like
that that. The idea is there's a field that has
all the information in it, and from time to time
inventors and people can get intuitive insights. They get into
the field, get the material, and they're able to bring
(04:20):
it back into this world. So that's that's why I
spend a lot of my time trying to again answer
that question, what's really going on? Like, you know, what's
this all about? Why are we here, where we're going?
And what are we supposed to be doing while we're here?
And if this phenomenon is for real, what is it
and what's its message?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
The title of the book is fascinating beyond Managing Magic,
let's talk about that. And then the second portion of
the title, landing the Plane, tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, So yeah, The Managing Magic was the original first
book in the second book in the series, and that
was when I started to realize that it wasn't it
wasn't just you. They had to do with all sorts
of paranormal phenomena. You'll find, you know, a lot of
experiencers when they once they'd been abducted or had experiences,
(05:08):
suddenly become psychic. They got orbs flying around the house,
you know, they can't touch electrical equipment, all this kind
of stuff. And so it went back to a statement
made by a got named doctor Ronald Pandolfi, who is
was rumored to be the guy around the weird desk
at the CIA who briefed presidents from Reagan all the
way through Trump. And in nineteen ninety one he had
(05:30):
an engagement with the guy that he had it would
have a thousand conversations with. His name was Dan Smith.
And Dan Smith reported to me that the first thing
ron said to him when he started talking about UFOs
is we have a phenomenology problem. And that sort of
sums it up. It's not just UFOs, it's all these
different phenomena. It's all basically the same thing. And so
(05:52):
that was where I was. I used the word managing magic.
So it's not managing the UFO subject, it's managing magic.
Where the the CIA was talking about this phenomenology problem,
so they realized that it was much more complex than
just the UFO thing. It had to do with even
going back to the Canadian government in nineteen fifty, the
(06:15):
Canadian investigator top investigator went down to the United States
and he made this top secret memo in which he said,
we were also told by Americans. He said, flying sauces exist.
It's most highly classified sou in the United States. We're
also told by American officials that other things might be
associated with the flying saucers, such as mental phenomena. The
Americans aren't doing very well because they've said, if we're
(06:35):
working on the problem, they're willing to exchange credentials and
talk to us. So already nineteen fifty two years before
A Damski came forward and was the first guy to
sort of report talking to aliens. Before that, the Americans
already knew that mental phenomena was involved. And I believe
probably the reason is that we now sort of believe
that the Roswell crash had three dead aliens and one
(06:57):
live alien, and the live alien was talking in people's heads.
And so if you're the military or the government, you say, like, wow,
would we love to love to be able to do
this talking people's heads and stuff. And so they knew
this mental phenomena thing. And that's where this thing about
it's magic. It's this whole suite of paranormal phenomena that
are all linked together, and the intelligence agencies know that,
(07:19):
and then the landing the plane was I've been at
this fifty years over fifty years now, and sometimes you
get very frustrated that you're not really getting anywhere. And
I've had a couple of sort of intuitive moments. I
had one in twenty twelve, one in twenty sixteen, and
then the one with the plane happened just when I
was looking at writing this book, and it said, what
(07:41):
are you worrying about? Like, it's what are you so concerned?
Don't worry. We know how to land the plane. And
it sort of occurred to me that the phenomena is
actually in charge of the situation. And you'll hear a
lot of other people talking about that as well, and
it's almost like they've done this on a thousand different planets.
They know exactly what to do. For eighteen ninety seventy
sent in the wooden ships with the propellers. Then you
(08:03):
send the food fighters. Then the food fighters will go away,
and the green fireballs come in, and then the green fireballs,
then the dampski crafts come in, and then you start
abducting people, and then the triangles come and now it's
orbs and there's landing traces. Now there's no landing traces,
and there's no crop circles. Now there's crop circles, and
you just do all these various things as if they're
(08:23):
working this plan. So I spent a lot of time
trying to figure out what are they actually up to,
how are they getting this message across? And that comes
down to this thing that they basically, it came to me,
almost with absolute certainty, was don't worry. We know how
to land the plane. Quit worrying about how this is
going to all turn out. We know what we're doing.
And you'll hear over and over again other people talk
about this as well, that they believe that the government
(08:46):
is not controlling it. The phenomena is actually controlling what's
going on.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Fascinating and it truly is incredible work that you do. Grant,
Are we getting any closer? Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I think we're getting closer. I mean we're talking about disclosure.
And there's now sort of an idea that when Trump
came in that Trump would disclose because he was sort
of like the wild man that you know, would talk
about everything. And I say, in fact, it was the
Biden that came the closest that at one point. If
you remember the Schumer Amendment where they had the Schumer Amendment,
(09:22):
it was it passed in the Senate Intelligence Committee eighteen
to zero. The Senate had passed it, it went to the House,
and it was only two guys. It was two Republicans,
the head of the arm Armed Services and the head
of Intelligence, who blocked it. If it had not been
for those two guys, or if the Democrats had had
six more votes, we would have disclosure today. Because that
(09:43):
was the amendment that said there would be a presidential
panel underneath the president with nine people on it, and
they would have subpoena power to call in the contractors
and force them to testify, and they were able to
do the imminet domain where they would grab the material,
all this kind of stuff, and it was just it
was blocked in the House, that's all it was. And
(10:04):
so if these two guys hadn't blocked it and forced
a sort of a party line vote, we would have
disclosure today. And so they lost that. Now they're trying
to reintroduce it. But basically, what you have as a
situation where uh, you're you're going to get a lot
of stuff except for the real high end stuff, because
I've always maintained that the government is leaking material. They're
(10:24):
sort of trying to get ahead of the story. They're
trying to be in control of what's happening, so they
they control a story. But the real stuff as to
how the crafts work and the bodies, that that kind
of biological stuff, that's a race between China and Russia,
and everybody knows, like the even the telepathy thing. I mean,
(10:45):
if you have the telepathy thing, uh, you've got to
realize that the Intelligence Committee, you know, they trade their
firstborn son to get that kind of stuff. Or in
the one book I talked about, uh, I wrote a
book on apportations, which is the phenomena where you're able
to take an object movement from one place to another
sort of instantaneously. And you have this happens in a
(11:07):
lot in Seance's and stuff. And there's actually a Defense
intelligence document from nineteen seventy three that talks about this
that said, if we can, if we can perfect the
airport technology, we could go to the Russians. We could
go into the vault, get the documents, bring them back
to Washington, DC photocopy, then put them back in the
(11:29):
vault and the Russians would never even know we were there.
And so all these kinds of things have these military
applications that if you can move stuff around, if you
talk in Putin's head, if you can appear and disappear
abduct people, that nobody can stop you. I mean that
kind of stuff. That's high end stuff that I don't
think you're ever going to get at. But in terms
of lower disclosure, I think the Congress is putting a
(11:52):
lot of heat. And what's going to happen is it's
going to be a situation where people say that people
will be frightened. But I remember back the day when
they said, you know, if they said the government was
working on it, you know they'd be the stock market
meltdown and people jump off bridges and stuff like that.
In twenty seventeen, the New York Times comes up with
an article and says, oh, it's true the government is
(12:13):
working on UFOs. It's true. They lied all these years,
and everybody's yeah, I knew that already, And I say now,
I would maintain that the way this thing has been
rolled out, that they could say the government could stand
up right now and say we got bodies and crafts
and everybody say, yeah, I know that already. Nobody would
be shocked. They would just want the next thing. Okay,
where are they from? So there is a gradual disclosure
(12:33):
of the items, and basically it may take a number
of more years, or it may have this thing where
you hear a lot of these rumors about twenty twenty seven.
There's all sorts of rumors about there's going to be
some contact made in twenty twenty seven, and so that
may happen again. That's where the phenomenon is controlling when
(12:54):
the contact will take place.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Grantee if retired CIA officer Jim sent Man has been
very vocal about this, and he's a key figure in
your book, isn't he Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
He's one of the people that I would say that
you listen to his interviews, all his interviews, and then
you listened two three times. I think he's on the level.
He's a guy who had an encounter in his bedroom.
He was very upset about it, very angry that they
violated his rights and stuff like that, which I thought
was kind of weird because he was the top spy
(13:28):
for the CIA. He ran the covert ops and the
question to him would be well, did you ask permission
when he stole stuff? And you know there are all
sorts of stuff in foreign countries that you thought was right.
And he had him as one of the top ten
UFO settings of all times, the fact that he had
this experience in his bedroom with his wife with these beings,
(13:49):
because he became absolutely down the rabbit hole like the
rest of us, and he got this very high position.
And he's actually the guy they went to all the
three letter agencies and said to them, you guys said
your chance to get this out, you didn't get it out.
We're dropping this thing. We're not going to release classified material.
He's the guy behind this modern UFO disclosure that's happening
in the Senate with the videos coming out, with Alizondo
(14:12):
coming forward all that. Semivan was behind all of that.
And so you have a situation where he would not
have done that if he had to have this experience.
And now we have this thing unraveling where there are
people inside government who believe they want it out and
they are pushing as much as they can, but Jim
(14:33):
semi Van will say that you're not You're not going
to get anything beyond just the basic admission.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
We've been talking about lately abductees and how it seems
like the abductee situation has diminished over the years. Have
you found that to be the case.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, well, that's one of the things I point out
because I started in seventy five, so I've done it
for fifty years. And I always try to remind the
young research because a lot of researchers came in in
twenty seventeen, and I always tell them, you've got to
realize this thing has changed, that the phenomena is morphing.
It doesn't do the same thing all the time. So
there are no more UFO settings with windows, there are
no landing traces. Remember these the land four thousand cases.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And then I burn burned out areas and all that.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
None of those have those have been happened for twenty
five years. At least, there hasn't been one of those
for twenty five years. So the phenomena keeps changing. It's
doing this, it's doing that, and it's morphing. So we
always have to realize that things will change. Like Caldum
relations really don't happen anymore either. And so when you
(15:37):
get this the induction thing, it may be the same
sort of thing where they do it. It's almost like
I sort of have it, like I call it the
theory of wow, where if you're on another planet and
they give this the class from grade one to grade
six and they say, Okay, we got this planet. We
got to raise the consciousness of this planet. They've got
the atomic bomb and stuff. What do you want to do?
In the grade one class says, oh, let's fly some
(15:57):
objects around they have lights on them. Good idea. And
then the second grade classes, okay, let's abduct some people.
In the third grade classes, let's mediate some cattle. And
there's all these different ideas as to how we're going
to raise consciousness, and the abduction thing may just be one.
Although even the abduction thing is when you start looking
(16:18):
at it, it looks a little more complex that nobody sees
anybody being abducted, and then you get a very high
percentage say that they were actually out of their body
when it happened. And the phenomena is very hard to
follow because the more you look at it, the more
complex it gets. It just gets weirder and weirder and weirder,
and the phenomena just keeps sort of upping the weirdness
(16:39):
aspect of this thing. And I thought it was very
simple and seventy five was going to be extraterrestrials. Now
I even doubt whether there's going to be extratrestials. And
that's what you're going to get people like Jim semi
Van and government officials where you'll never hear them talk
about extraterrestrials. They'll always say, we don't have any evidence
for extraterrestrial visitation. But the butt they have bodies crafts,
(17:00):
and Semiban says, because you have bodies and crafts doesn't
mean you know what you're dealing with. And that's why
him and Tom DeLong they call them the others. So
there's this sort of a hint on the inside that
this may not be as extraterrestrial as people think it is.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Absolutely, it's fascinating, and it's happening faster than we can
even keep track of it, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, it's moving at an in trouble rate. And now
I've got dragged down the rabbit hole of AI and
that is absolutely unbelievable what you can do with AI.
So it's very if you remember back in the old days,
I mean, we used to write letters to each other.
I mean, this is how research was done. You find
out something, a rumor about some guy, you'd write a
letter and three weeks that you get your answer. Now
(17:42):
everything's happening at the speed of light. It's just absolutely
incredible that you can put all your material that you
want in there and just get the AI to pull
everything out. So and that's something Jack by Lay talked
about for years and years and years how AI would
change the situation. And I believe we're moving at almost
like at light speed now in terms of being able
to assimulate material and talk to people instantaneously, and the
(18:07):
number of podcasts that are coming out. We even have,
you know, a situation where the telepathy tapes, you know,
related phenomena and Christmas Day had one and a half
million hits. So we always complained about the paranormal we
don't get any respect, and now we have the top
podcast in the world, so you can see that the
paranormal phenomena is not the scourge that it used to be.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com. For more,
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George nor with
you our friend Grant Cameron with US Canadian author, researcher,
historical analysts. With decades of investigative experience, Grant has interviewed
hundreds of experiencers, whistleblowers, government insiders, weaving their testimonies into
paradigm shifting narratives that challenge materialistic assumptions. He's got a
(00:26):
new book out called Beyond Managing Magic, Landing the Plane.
It's his fourth volume in the series. Welcome back, Grant.
How you been been good?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
George, Thanks for having me on. I appreciate your interest.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
How did you get interested in the UFO field in
the first place? How that happened?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm in nineteen seventy five, had no interest whatsoever is
going to university, small town outside of the city I
was living in. I was reporting UFOs nightly, and I
said to my friend, let's go and let's see what
they're doing. And we say, okay, we'll go. And we
didn't go for three months, and then local TV station
got a film of this thing jumping off the ground.
(01:03):
So if you're familiar with the nimits going from ninety
thousand feet down to sea level in seven eighths of
a second, this thing went from ground level to five
thousand feet in the air in about one eighth of
a second. And it was caught on film by this
TV crew. And that's when I said to my friend,
come on, let's go see what they're looking at. And
we drove out there. We drove around this town called
Carmen for about an hour and we didn't see anything,
(01:25):
and I said, my friend said, okay, we'll go into
town one more time. If we don't see anything, let's
go home. And I said, great, this has been a
total waste of time. We turned the car to go
back in, and the thing appeared from the left to
the right, and nobody in the car said, is that
what they're looking at? Is that what everyboy's looking just
there is It's just like almost like it was like, Wow,
there are miracles there, actually are these kind of things happening.
And it came in close enough the first night and
(01:48):
the second night came right at me and sort of
flew away. That I never ever doubted that UFO. So
I always think that the UFO community spends a lot
of time wasting time about the fact that UFOs exist.
But I knew right from the word go there was
absolutely no way this was anything else, and I just
got obsessed with it. The second night it was flying away,
I wondered, what's it doing? It wasn't doing anything. It
(02:09):
was just sort of flying along at a very very
low speed, a plasma, red plasma object. And so I
spent my entire life trying to figure out that question,
what's it doing? What's really going on here? And I
figured I didn't know, but there had to be someone
in the world who knew what was going on.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That's amazing. And now your new book, of course, is
the fourth in a series of the Disclosure Project, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah? And the fifth is sort of written, but I'm
not sure when I'll put it out. But this is
the fourth one. It started with the first one back
in nineteen ninety one when the Area fifty one story
was breaking and the Bob the Area fifty one story,
and we had a number of interviews with a guy
by the name of doctor Eric Walker, who was the
(02:56):
former president of Penn State University. Had fourteen hours and
your doctor degrees, was chairman of the board of the
major military think tank in the United States. He was
identified as one of the guys who started to cover
up with Vanovar Bush, and he answered a lot of
our questions in rhymes and riddles, told us we are
wasting our time. This is just curiosity. Why she changed
(03:18):
the rules and regulations satisfy your curiosity. And I just
went from person to person trying to figure out who knew.
That's why I spent maybe thirty years looking at the president,
because I figured, well, the president of the United States
got to know. He's the most powerful guy in the world.
He's got to know. And that led to experiencers understanding
(03:38):
that there are people who are actually interacting with the phenomena.
So we spent a lot of time looking at UFO
sightings and colors of UFOs and stuff, and we have
totally ignored the people who are actually in contact with
the phenomena. And that's where I figured the answer had
to be. And so I spent a lot of time
with experiencers, and I spent now a lot of time
(04:00):
with people who I believe are in the field, so
we'd be people like trans channelers, trans mediums people like
that that. The idea is there's a field that has
all the information in it, and from time to time
inventors and people can get intuitive insights. They get into
the field, get the material, and they're able to bring
(04:20):
it back into this world. So that's that's why I
spend a lot of my time trying to again answer
that question, what's really going on? Like, you know, what's
this all about? Why are we here, where we're going?
And what are we supposed to be doing while we're here?
And if this phenomenon is for real, what is it
and what's its message?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
The title of the book is fascinating beyond Managing Magic,
let's talk about that. And then the second portion of
the title, landing the Plane, tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, So yeah, The Managing Magic was the original first
book in the second book in the series, and that
was when I started to realize that it wasn't it
wasn't just you. They had to do with all sorts
of paranormal phenomena. You'll find, you know, a lot of
experiencers when they once they'd been abducted or had experiences,
(05:08):
suddenly become psychic. They got orbs flying around the house,
you know, they can't touch electrical equipment, all this kind
of stuff. And so it went back to a statement
made by a got named doctor Ronald Pandolfi, who is
was rumored to be the guy around the weird desk
at the CIA who briefed presidents from Reagan all the
way through Trump. And in nineteen ninety one he had
(05:30):
an engagement with the guy that he had it would
have a thousand conversations with. His name was Dan Smith.
And Dan Smith reported to me that the first thing
ron said to him when he started talking about UFOs
is we have a phenomenology problem. And that sort of
sums it up. It's not just UFOs, it's all these
different phenomena. It's all basically the same thing. And so
(05:52):
that was where I was. I used the word managing magic.
So it's not managing the UFO subject, it's managing magic.
Where the the CIA was talking about this phenomenology problem,
so they realized that it was much more complex than
just the UFO thing. It had to do with even
going back to the Canadian government in nineteen fifty, the
(06:15):
Canadian investigator top investigator went down to the United States
and he made this top secret memo in which he said,
we were also told by Americans. He said, flying sauces exist.
It's most highly classified sou in the United States. We're
also told by American officials that other things might be
associated with the flying saucers, such as mental phenomena. The
Americans aren't doing very well because they've said, if we're
(06:35):
working on the problem, they're willing to exchange credentials and
talk to us. So already nineteen fifty two years before
A Damski came forward and was the first guy to
sort of report talking to aliens. Before that, the Americans
already knew that mental phenomena was involved. And I believe
probably the reason is that we now sort of believe
that the Roswell crash had three dead aliens and one
(06:57):
live alien, and the live alien was talking in people's heads.
And so if you're the military or the government, you say, like, wow,
would we love to love to be able to do
this talking people's heads and stuff. And so they knew
this mental phenomena thing. And that's where this thing about
it's magic. It's this whole suite of paranormal phenomena that
are all linked together, and the intelligence agencies know that,
(07:19):
and then the landing the plane was I've been at
this fifty years over fifty years now, and sometimes you
get very frustrated that you're not really getting anywhere. And
I've had a couple of sort of intuitive moments. I
had one in twenty twelve, one in twenty sixteen, and
then the one with the plane happened just when I
was looking at writing this book, and it said, what
(07:41):
are you worrying about? Like, it's what are you so concerned?
Don't worry. We know how to land the plane. And
it sort of occurred to me that the phenomena is
actually in charge of the situation. And you'll hear a
lot of other people talking about that as well, and
it's almost like they've done this on a thousand different planets.
They know exactly what to do. For eighteen ninety seventy
sent in the wooden ships with the propellers. Then you
(08:03):
send the food fighters. Then the food fighters will go away,
and the green fireballs come in, and then the green fireballs,
then the dampski crafts come in, and then you start
abducting people, and then the triangles come and now it's
orbs and there's landing traces. Now there's no landing traces,
and there's no crop circles. Now there's crop circles, and
you just do all these various things as if they're
(08:23):
working this plan. So I spent a lot of time
trying to figure out what are they actually up to,
how are they getting this message across? And that comes
down to this thing that they basically, it came to me,
almost with absolute certainty, was don't worry. We know how
to land the plane. Quit worrying about how this is
going to all turn out. We know what we're doing.
And you'll hear over and over again other people talk
about this as well, that they believe that the government
(08:46):
is not controlling it. The phenomena is actually controlling what's
going on.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Fascinating and it truly is incredible work that you do. Grant,
Are we getting any closer? Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I think we're getting closer. I mean we're talking about disclosure.
And there's now sort of an idea that when Trump
came in that Trump would disclose because he was sort
of like the wild man that you know, would talk
about everything. And I say, in fact, it was the
Biden that came the closest that at one point. If
you remember the Schumer Amendment where they had the Schumer Amendment,
(09:22):
it was it passed in the Senate Intelligence Committee eighteen
to zero. The Senate had passed it, it went to the House,
and it was only two guys. It was two Republicans,
the head of the arm Armed Services and the head
of Intelligence, who blocked it. If it had not been
for those two guys, or if the Democrats had had
six more votes, we would have disclosure today. Because that
(09:43):
was the amendment that said there would be a presidential
panel underneath the president with nine people on it, and
they would have subpoena power to call in the contractors
and force them to testify, and they were able to
do the imminet domain where they would grab the material,
all this kind of stuff, and it was just it
was blocked in the House, that's all it was. And
(10:04):
so if these two guys hadn't blocked it and forced
a sort of a party line vote, we would have
disclosure today. And so they lost that. Now they're trying
to reintroduce it. But basically, what you have as a
situation where uh, you're you're going to get a lot
of stuff except for the real high end stuff, because
I've always maintained that the government is leaking material. They're
(10:24):
sort of trying to get ahead of the story. They're
trying to be in control of what's happening, so they
they control a story. But the real stuff as to
how the crafts work and the bodies, that that kind
of biological stuff, that's a race between China and Russia,
and everybody knows, like the even the telepathy thing. I mean,
(10:45):
if you have the telepathy thing, uh, you've got to
realize that the Intelligence Committee, you know, they trade their
firstborn son to get that kind of stuff. Or in
the one book I talked about, uh, I wrote a
book on apportations, which is the phenomena where you're able
to take an object movement from one place to another
sort of instantaneously. And you have this happens in a
(11:07):
lot in Seance's and stuff. And there's actually a Defense
intelligence document from nineteen seventy three that talks about this
that said, if we can, if we can perfect the
airport technology, we could go to the Russians. We could
go into the vault, get the documents, bring them back
to Washington, DC photocopy, then put them back in the
(11:29):
vault and the Russians would never even know we were there.
And so all these kinds of things have these military
applications that if you can move stuff around, if you
talk in Putin's head, if you can appear and disappear
abduct people, that nobody can stop you. I mean that
kind of stuff. That's high end stuff that I don't
think you're ever going to get at. But in terms
of lower disclosure, I think the Congress is putting a
(11:52):
lot of heat. And what's going to happen is it's
going to be a situation where people say that people
will be frightened. But I remember back the day when
they said, you know, if they said the government was
working on it, you know they'd be the stock market
meltdown and people jump off bridges and stuff like that.
In twenty seventeen, the New York Times comes up with
an article and says, oh, it's true the government is
(12:13):
working on UFOs. It's true. They lied all these years,
and everybody's yeah, I knew that already, And I say now,
I would maintain that the way this thing has been
rolled out, that they could say the government could stand
up right now and say we got bodies and crafts
and everybody say, yeah, I know that already. Nobody would
be shocked. They would just want the next thing. Okay,
where are they from? So there is a gradual disclosure
(12:33):
of the items, and basically it may take a number
of more years, or it may have this thing where
you hear a lot of these rumors about twenty twenty seven.
There's all sorts of rumors about there's going to be
some contact made in twenty twenty seven, and so that
may happen again. That's where the phenomenon is controlling when
(12:54):
the contact will take place.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Grantee if retired CIA officer Jim sent Man has been
very vocal about this, and he's a key figure in
your book, isn't he Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
He's one of the people that I would say that
you listen to his interviews, all his interviews, and then
you listened two three times. I think he's on the level.
He's a guy who had an encounter in his bedroom.
He was very upset about it, very angry that they
violated his rights and stuff like that, which I thought
was kind of weird because he was the top spy
(13:28):
for the CIA. He ran the covert ops and the
question to him would be well, did you ask permission
when he stole stuff? And you know there are all
sorts of stuff in foreign countries that you thought was right.
And he had him as one of the top ten
UFO settings of all times, the fact that he had
this experience in his bedroom with his wife with these beings,
(13:49):
because he became absolutely down the rabbit hole like the
rest of us, and he got this very high position.
And he's actually the guy they went to all the
three letter agencies and said to them, you guys said
your chance to get this out, you didn't get it out.
We're dropping this thing. We're not going to release classified material.
He's the guy behind this modern UFO disclosure that's happening
in the Senate with the videos coming out, with Alizondo
(14:12):
coming forward all that. Semivan was behind all of that.
And so you have a situation where he would not
have done that if he had to have this experience.
And now we have this thing unraveling where there are
people inside government who believe they want it out and
they are pushing as much as they can, but Jim
(14:33):
semi Van will say that you're not You're not going
to get anything beyond just the basic admission.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
We've been talking about lately abductees and how it seems
like the abductee situation has diminished over the years. Have
you found that to be the case.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, well, that's one of the things I point out
because I started in seventy five, so I've done it
for fifty years. And I always try to remind the
young research because a lot of researchers came in in
twenty seventeen, and I always tell them, you've got to
realize this thing has changed, that the phenomena is morphing.
It doesn't do the same thing all the time. So
there are no more UFO settings with windows, there are
no landing traces. Remember these the land four thousand cases.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And then I burn burned out areas and all that.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
None of those have those have been happened for twenty
five years. At least, there hasn't been one of those
for twenty five years. So the phenomena keeps changing. It's
doing this, it's doing that, and it's morphing. So we
always have to realize that things will change. Like Caldum
relations really don't happen anymore either. And so when you
(15:37):
get this the induction thing, it may be the same
sort of thing where they do it. It's almost like
I sort of have it, like I call it the
theory of wow, where if you're on another planet and
they give this the class from grade one to grade
six and they say, Okay, we got this planet. We
got to raise the consciousness of this planet. They've got
the atomic bomb and stuff. What do you want to do?
In the grade one class says, oh, let's fly some
(15:57):
objects around they have lights on them. Good idea. And
then the second grade classes, okay, let's abduct some people.
In the third grade classes, let's mediate some cattle. And
there's all these different ideas as to how we're going
to raise consciousness, and the abduction thing may just be one.
Although even the abduction thing is when you start looking
(16:18):
at it, it looks a little more complex that nobody sees
anybody being abducted, and then you get a very high
percentage say that they were actually out of their body
when it happened. And the phenomena is very hard to
follow because the more you look at it, the more
complex it gets. It just gets weirder and weirder and weirder,
and the phenomena just keeps sort of upping the weirdness
(16:39):
aspect of this thing. And I thought it was very
simple and seventy five was going to be extraterrestrials. Now
I even doubt whether there's going to be extratrestials. And
that's what you're going to get people like Jim semi
Van and government officials where you'll never hear them talk
about extraterrestrials. They'll always say, we don't have any evidence
for extraterrestrial visitation. But the butt they have bodies crafts,
(17:00):
and Semiban says, because you have bodies and crafts doesn't
mean you know what you're dealing with. And that's why
him and Tom DeLong they call them the others. So
there's this sort of a hint on the inside that
this may not be as extraterrestrial as people think it is.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Absolutely, it's fascinating, and it's happening faster than we can
even keep track of it, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, it's moving at an in trouble rate. And now
I've got dragged down the rabbit hole of AI and
that is absolutely unbelievable what you can do with AI.
So it's very if you remember back in the old days,
I mean, we used to write letters to each other.
I mean, this is how research was done. You find
out something, a rumor about some guy, you'd write a
letter and three weeks that you get your answer. Now
(17:42):
everything's happening at the speed of light. It's just absolutely
incredible that you can put all your material that you
want in there and just get the AI to pull
everything out. So and that's something Jack by Lay talked
about for years and years and years how AI would
change the situation. And I believe we're moving at almost
like at light speed now in terms of being able
to assimulate material and talk to people instantaneously, and the
(18:07):
number of podcasts that are coming out. We even have,
you know, a situation where the telepathy tapes, you know,
related phenomena and Christmas Day had one and a half
million hits. So we always complained about the paranormal we
don't get any respect, and now we have the top
podcast in the world, so you can see that the
paranormal phenomena is not the scourge that it used to be.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
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