December 31, 2025 • 18 mins
George Noory and author Peter Sacco explore his investigations into paranormal events and hauntings, including ghosts, shadow people and floating couches, plus his past work as a psychologist profiling criminal behavior.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast really looking forward
to this. Peter Sachoback with us. He's an author, producer, director.
Peter has been a university and college professor for thirty
years and has written at least thirty plus books, his
most recent It's called The Tunnel, and more than eight
hundred articles. He lives and resides in the Agara on
(00:25):
the Canadian side, where he's done extensive research on how
and Wyatt is one of the most haunted parts of
Canada and in North America. Peter, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Where have you been for eight years? Ay? George, It's
great to be back and missed your boye brent Hire.
You been pretty good. Other than we're kind of in
a deep freezer right now, but I hear your side well.
Across down to the Carolina's pretty during cold too.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's cold all over the place. Really something, But yeah,
the East Coast and the Eastern area seaboard there's getting slammed,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
It really is. The irony of it is is I
haven't done a ghost talk or anything in years, literally years.
When I did one this past October, which basically set
off having pneumonia for about two months because it was
an outside talk and it was actually freezing two days
before Halloween year.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, thank god you beat it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
My gosh, good old times, George. Nothing like being up
all night, that's what you know? What makes me a
night talk It's either the coughing or radio shows.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, you do a great job.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
What got you involved in the paranormal, Peter? What really
got me interested? And I'm guessing you know we're kind
of from the same generation. It was a TV show
called The Nightstalker as a kid growing up, Darren McGavin check,
So you know, kind of fell in love with that there, George.
And then Chris Carter did it for me in ninety
(01:49):
four when the Xiles came out and the rest is history.
As they say, I really like that kind of stuff,
and I in my undergraduate I had taken courses in
how will we call it? Parapsychology pseudo psychology, and then
through into my PhD years, I took more courses because
I was interested in it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, what was your PhD?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
In? My PhD was in social psychology with a dual
strong major in cognitive behavioral therapy as well as criminal psychology.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Now what is criminal psychology? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I would look at it in terms of, you know,
the easiest way of putting it is profiling, but it
really looks and examines the nature of the criminal mind,
what leads somebody into a predisposition towards a criminal life
or career if you want to call it, at different levels.
And also the profiling aspect, which I did training cops
(02:51):
for a long time because I had the wonderful, awesome
fortunes of studying with they're now retired FBI agents who
basically were the hallmark of profilers, and I believe one
was it. The mind Hunter was actually based on John Douglas,
who had gotten over the years.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Does profiling depict or pinpoint someone who will will commit
a crime or somebody who already has?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I think, you know, you have to look at it, George,
that it's somebody who has you haven't really caught you,
You haven't caught them, but you may have some ideas,
and profiling kind of sets up you paint a picture
of who you're looking for. However, with that said, over
the years, if you have enough individuals that kind of
(03:47):
commit the same crimes or over the centuries. You can
then kind of predict who or what might do it
later on in life. And you know, we can get
into the whole McDonald triad. We look at, Okay, if
somebody's young and they're a bedwetter by your starter animal
torture and who somebody who has highly sexually developed fantasies,
(04:09):
those would be like red flags early on in life.
You know. And kids, I've seen them myself, or I've
dealt with parents who had kids that were doing some
of those things. And you know, you wouldn't come right
up and say, okay, wow, man, wow, sir, your son's
going to be another John Wayne Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer.
You don't do you know, you can can't predict that. However,
there are telltale signs that say, okay, this person is
(04:32):
on the wrong trajectory.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Does abusing the child contribute to that?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
To Peter, you know what, George, I think almost every
individual that has developed into a sociopath or a psychopath
has come from an abusive background. And when I say abusive,
it's not necessarily always physiological in terms of you know,
a physical beatings or even sexual assaults, sexual abuse, but
(05:00):
also emotional. It's a really awesome forensic psychiatrist down in
your neck of the woods in California. Years ago I'd
studied with put it best. You know. He looked at
it and he says, it's always it's always seems to
be a very strong rejection or a belief in a
rejection from one's mother.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
That's fascinating. Yeah, the parents have a lot to do
with it, I'm afraid.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah. You know. The term I used to use in
my lectures all the time with my students is today's
catchers are tomorrow's pictures, unfortunately, And what do you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Find nowadays, Peter, people's interest in the paranormal? What seems
to drive it?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
You know what's interesting about that? George? I think it
is technology, I really, really truly do. I've watched the
show on I think it's the History Channel because I've
worked with some folks with their shows like Zodiac as
well as a couple of the others, and I watched
(06:07):
The Truth Is out There or The Proof Is out There,
which is kind of like a takeoff of The Xiles.
The Truth is out There and it's the technology because
everybody has cell phones, so they have cameras, and interestingly enough,
I think a lot of folks have the ability to
digitally create even through eye stuff that's not true and
(06:31):
pique people's interests and get them into it nowadays. But
here's an interesting tib When I was doing the TV
show Niagara's Most Haunted and then eventually the paranormal profilers,
a couple of the investigators said, it's cell phones that
are interesting because you're catching ghosts as you're doing selfies
(06:51):
and they're standing behind you in these haunted places. Because they,
as one fellow put it, he goes because in the past,
they would think they know what a camera is, so
they would stay away from the projection of the lens.
But yet they don't understand what a cell phone technology is.
And this is why they were catching me. You know,
Aunt George, I'm the biggest skeptic when it comes to
(07:13):
this stuff. But some of the pictures I saw would
literally keep people awake at nights from a people and
accidentally trapped in their homes on their cell phones.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And these people generally can't see the spirit of the
entity with their naked eye. It just shows up on
video right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Correct, And it's usually behind them, and that's the best part.
These things stay out of focus, so to speak. And
then they're scrolling through their gallery of photos and all
of a sudden they see what they're seeing and they're like,
holy cop. And I remember sitting in a pizza place
out one night and the one fellow was showing me
his stuff because he lives in it's got to be
(07:51):
about two hundred and fifty year old old bed and breakfast,
and this is where, you know, where they were picking
up stuff. And another one was an old mortuary that's
been turned into a B and b, and they were
filming there and were staying there, and in behind them
they could see these things and they didn't look nice.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Based on your work in history, what do you think
of the afterlife?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Well, first of all, I am a Christian, so I'm
a very strong believer in the afterlife based on my
Christian beliefs and principles. In fact, given the fact I've
actually had what I would call miraculous experiences myself that
basically being raised as a Catholic, I don't really I
(08:35):
didn't really give it a lot of credence until I
was taking philosophy and my undergraduates, and I had to
write a paper on the cosmological and ontological existence of God.
And after writing that paper, it was like, holy cow,
this is really cool. There's a different God the way
that I always seen God. And then I eventually would
(08:56):
go on to have my own experiences, encounters that would
literally blow the doors off of me. But with that
said George, which is interesting, I once saw what was
a possession with my own eyes, and literally I was
one of twelve men that eventually had to hold this
twenty something year old guy down that was speaking in
(09:17):
Arabic languages that were incomprehensible. He was foaming up a
mouth and I saw the eyes. There was no mistaken
and I'll say, honestly, I was shaken by that experience.
And even doing the show, catching stuff on film that
we've seen makes you a believer that even if you
(09:37):
weren't a believer in God so to speak, or that
you know that extent, you still go, Holy Cow, there
is something thereafter, and it's unexplainable.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What do you think at this point, Peter is a ghost?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I think for the most part. George and I studied
and read some of the Warrens where Ed and Lorraine
Warrens and that stuff, and Ed was a pretty straight shooter.
I believe a lot of the stuff they did, and
you know, these Conjuring series movies was sensationalized. However, you
have to look at some of the places Ed was
invited into it, and you know, we're talking about military places.
(10:18):
We're talking about really distinct places and people giving their
testimonials about it. So I believe a lot of it,
and even Ed was, you know, to use kind of
his now or his way of prescribing it, that a
lot of it is residual energies, so to speak, whatever
(10:40):
that is. It's like a projection. It's like something playing
itself over and over, and it's not conscious or aware
of you being there, and it's just like it's a
a polar right or a video tape of the film. However,
I remember reading though, and he says, when they're capable
of moving stuff and tormenting you, that's when you throw
the g It's an apparition out the window, and that's
(11:01):
more of a something like a demonic entity.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
There were some famous Canadian Poultergeist cases back in the seventies.
You were involved in some of those cases, weren't you, Well,
I was.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
I'm not that old, but I knew two of the cops.
Being working with various police services for USS all the
way up to the federal level, both sides of the
US and Canadian border. I got to know a lot
of cops over the years. And rule number one, which
is interesting and having tought cops for thirty years, is
(11:39):
cops will never write up in a police report in
their wildest dreams or imagination, anything to do with ghosts
or Poultergeist because nobody's ever gonna want to. You know,
They're going to be seen as you're going to be crazy,
you know. And for twenty eight days, George, we had
in nineteen seventy one of the most famous Poultergeist case,
not only in Canadian North American history, about the world.
(12:01):
And I got to know two of the cops that
I spoke less than we'll say, twenty five years after
this had happened, so everything was very fresh in their memories.
They were both there, Mike Mooney and the late great
Robert Scottie Crawford who was rased from Scotland, who became
a company came over from Scotland and they gave me
(12:25):
the seven police reports that I still have to this day.
And these were police reports that would be signed equivalently
by the police services as well as what you would
call a district attorney in the United States that had
witnessed all this. So you know, it was real.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Dramatic stuff, isn't that?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It was really scary, especially when cops are telling you,
you know, there's a kid on a bed that's hovering
two three feet off of the ground. Everything's floating around
in the room, blowing off the walls. Three adults sitting
on a coach, well equivalent of your district attorney is
about to start interviewing them, and the coach starts levitating
(13:08):
off of the ground, where one of the witnesses on
the coach jumps off screaming, and the Crown Attorney runs
out of there, leaves his brand new coat behind, and
he says, I want no part of this. This is whacked.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
How haunted Peter is Niagara compared to other regions of
the world.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I would say, if you're looking and doing comparisons, I
would say we are your Gettysburg, that sort of area.
There's a fellow that I did he was in some
of the TVs shows that I did Jack Kenna, who's
very well known as a paranormal investigator in the States.
And Jack said, you know, he was doing a taping
(13:49):
in Gettysburg before he made his way up to Canada
for stuff with my team and that stuff. And I
remember Jack saying, he goes, wow, he goes, you got
to take for what it's worth. He goes, neck and neck.
We got to say that Gettysburg and where I'm living now,
Niagarn the Lake Got'd probably be two of the most
haunted places in North America because of all the bloodshed
(14:11):
from War of eighteen twelve. And that's what a lot
of this is, George. It's that's what people are seeing.
We have a golf course down my neck of the woods.
It's a Nagron. The lake is considered one of the
most beautiful locations in Canada, not North America, as well
as Lewiston, New York, across the ditch from US, and
people report seeing, you know, headless and limbless soldiers walking
(14:34):
around the street or even on the golf course.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You're right, it's like our Gettysburg because we get a
lot of those reports too.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, And I think you know interesting, you had to
ask me about what do I think a ghost is
or I think what they're seeing? And from the people
that I've spoken to, and a lot of it is
anecdotal stories passed down. We're a little saying, you know,
I saw it, and some people will say they try
to interact with it, but they would say it just
looked like a film projector almost like if you've been
(15:05):
to Disney World in the Haunted Mansion and you're on
the cart going around it. You can watch people dancing
in that ballroom, so to speak, but you know you
can see them, but they can't see you because they're
basically holograms, and that's what these are like for them.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
You mentioned some cases that you've come across by what
would you say was the most frightening episode you've experienced.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
It was twenty seventeen and we were filming in an
old bed and breakfast and this was a very very
famous place, and there was twelve of us that day
because we brought extras onto the shoot, including a retired
high ranking captain in the military. Here. We brought them
(15:49):
on as a guest as to show them what was
going on, and while we were filming George, and I'm
sitting there that we had two individuals that are really
well known in their own right in Canada doing a
spirit box session and whatever they were talking to, you know,
(16:10):
you could hear whatever it is coming through the spirit box.
And I'm gonna be honest once again, I'm very skeptical
with a lot of stuff until it starts saying my
own name on there and telling me stuff about me.
Then I'm thinking, Okay, how are they doing this or whatever.
But what was scary about this, George, is what I
heard as well. As there was a twelve of us
in our group plus others, there something spoke in the
(16:33):
room we were filming, and it was a giant, giant
room and I caught it on tape and it filled
the room. The voice did it didn't come through the
spirit box system, came auditorily into the room and just
after it said it whatever you know, it said ole kay,
(16:54):
and it was just creepy as heck, and I remember
almost falling backwards going wow, didn't see that one coming.
And behind the individuals with the spirit box, all of
a sudden I saw this thing run up the wall.
It looked like a giant cockroach. Or a giant crab
or something, and it was white, and it went up
the wall and disappeared into the ceiling. And then if
(17:18):
that wasn't enough, one of the owners of the B
and B started having a massive panic attack, which the team.
One of the members on the team, as a nurse, said, wow,
that could possibly be a heart attack. And this was
getting really bizarre. But what happened worse than that, George.
It shook a lot of people up, George. But that
night I was single, living alone at the time, and
(17:41):
I had the precarious notion that something was standing in
my bedroom door watching me all night, and I just
thought okay, and I was up all night for whatever reason,
I felt kind of rattled, and the next couple days
I felt really off. So I started talking to other
people on the team. That night, everybody that I'd spoke
and just said they saw they ether saw shadows following
(18:03):
them where they felt like they were being followed. So
one of the members of the team that does a
lot of work in demonology and that stuff, she had
seen it, and other people had seen it, and the
history of this B and B had shadow figures, and
I remember at that point there this member of the
team who's very celebrated in this field said, shadow figures, Peter,
(18:25):
just so you know, those are demonic entities and the
B and B. When these individuals bought it upstairs, unbeknownst
to them because they had a history of bad things
and people staying there, leaving and never wanting to come back,
they had redid the floor upstairs on the third level,
and underneath the rug they found a pentagram and wijaboards
(18:46):
and that stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast really looking forward
to this. Peter Sachoback with us. He's an author, producer, director.
Peter has been a university and college professor for thirty
years and has written at least thirty plus books, his
most recent It's called The Tunnel, and more than eight
hundred articles. He lives and resides in the Agara on
(00:25):
the Canadian side, where he's done extensive research on how
and Wyatt is one of the most haunted parts of
Canada and in North America. Peter, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Where have you been for eight years? Ay? George, It's
great to be back and missed your boye brent Hire.
You been pretty good. Other than we're kind of in
a deep freezer right now, but I hear your side well.
Across down to the Carolina's pretty during cold too.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's cold all over the place. Really something, But yeah,
the East Coast and the Eastern area seaboard there's getting slammed,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
It really is. The irony of it is is I
haven't done a ghost talk or anything in years, literally years.
When I did one this past October, which basically set
off having pneumonia for about two months because it was
an outside talk and it was actually freezing two days
before Halloween year.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, thank god you beat it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
My gosh, good old times, George. Nothing like being up
all night, that's what you know? What makes me a
night talk It's either the coughing or radio shows.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, you do a great job.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
What got you involved in the paranormal, Peter? What really
got me interested? And I'm guessing you know we're kind
of from the same generation. It was a TV show
called The Nightstalker as a kid growing up, Darren McGavin check,
So you know, kind of fell in love with that there, George.
And then Chris Carter did it for me in ninety
(01:49):
four when the Xiles came out and the rest is history.
As they say, I really like that kind of stuff,
and I in my undergraduate I had taken courses in
how will we call it? Parapsychology pseudo psychology, and then
through into my PhD years, I took more courses because
I was interested in it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, what was your PhD?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
In? My PhD was in social psychology with a dual
strong major in cognitive behavioral therapy as well as criminal psychology.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Now what is criminal psychology? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I would look at it in terms of, you know,
the easiest way of putting it is profiling, but it
really looks and examines the nature of the criminal mind,
what leads somebody into a predisposition towards a criminal life
or career if you want to call it, at different levels.
And also the profiling aspect, which I did training cops
(02:51):
for a long time because I had the wonderful, awesome
fortunes of studying with they're now retired FBI agents who
basically were the hallmark of profilers, and I believe one
was it. The mind Hunter was actually based on John Douglas,
who had gotten over the years.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Does profiling depict or pinpoint someone who will will commit
a crime or somebody who already has?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I think, you know, you have to look at it, George,
that it's somebody who has you haven't really caught you,
You haven't caught them, but you may have some ideas,
and profiling kind of sets up you paint a picture
of who you're looking for. However, with that said, over
the years, if you have enough individuals that kind of
(03:47):
commit the same crimes or over the centuries. You can
then kind of predict who or what might do it
later on in life. And you know, we can get
into the whole McDonald triad. We look at, Okay, if
somebody's young and they're a bedwetter by your starter animal
torture and who somebody who has highly sexually developed fantasies,
(04:09):
those would be like red flags early on in life.
You know. And kids, I've seen them myself, or I've
dealt with parents who had kids that were doing some
of those things. And you know, you wouldn't come right
up and say, okay, wow, man, wow, sir, your son's
going to be another John Wayne Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer.
You don't do you know, you can can't predict that. However,
there are telltale signs that say, okay, this person is
(04:32):
on the wrong trajectory.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Does abusing the child contribute to that?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
To Peter, you know what, George, I think almost every
individual that has developed into a sociopath or a psychopath
has come from an abusive background. And when I say abusive,
it's not necessarily always physiological in terms of you know,
a physical beatings or even sexual assaults, sexual abuse, but
(05:00):
also emotional. It's a really awesome forensic psychiatrist down in
your neck of the woods in California. Years ago I'd
studied with put it best. You know. He looked at
it and he says, it's always it's always seems to
be a very strong rejection or a belief in a
rejection from one's mother.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
That's fascinating. Yeah, the parents have a lot to do
with it, I'm afraid.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah. You know. The term I used to use in
my lectures all the time with my students is today's
catchers are tomorrow's pictures, unfortunately, And what do you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Find nowadays, Peter, people's interest in the paranormal? What seems
to drive it?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
You know what's interesting about that? George? I think it
is technology, I really, really truly do. I've watched the
show on I think it's the History Channel because I've
worked with some folks with their shows like Zodiac as
well as a couple of the others, and I watched
(06:07):
The Truth Is out There or The Proof Is out There,
which is kind of like a takeoff of The Xiles.
The Truth is out There and it's the technology because
everybody has cell phones, so they have cameras, and interestingly enough,
I think a lot of folks have the ability to
digitally create even through eye stuff that's not true and
(06:31):
pique people's interests and get them into it nowadays. But
here's an interesting tib When I was doing the TV
show Niagara's Most Haunted and then eventually the paranormal profilers,
a couple of the investigators said, it's cell phones that
are interesting because you're catching ghosts as you're doing selfies
(06:51):
and they're standing behind you in these haunted places. Because they,
as one fellow put it, he goes because in the past,
they would think they know what a camera is, so
they would stay away from the projection of the lens.
But yet they don't understand what a cell phone technology is.
And this is why they were catching me. You know,
Aunt George, I'm the biggest skeptic when it comes to
(07:13):
this stuff. But some of the pictures I saw would
literally keep people awake at nights from a people and
accidentally trapped in their homes on their cell phones.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And these people generally can't see the spirit of the
entity with their naked eye. It just shows up on
video right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Correct, And it's usually behind them, and that's the best part.
These things stay out of focus, so to speak. And
then they're scrolling through their gallery of photos and all
of a sudden they see what they're seeing and they're like,
holy cop. And I remember sitting in a pizza place
out one night and the one fellow was showing me
his stuff because he lives in it's got to be
(07:51):
about two hundred and fifty year old old bed and breakfast,
and this is where, you know, where they were picking
up stuff. And another one was an old mortuary that's
been turned into a B and b, and they were
filming there and were staying there, and in behind them
they could see these things and they didn't look nice.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Based on your work in history, what do you think
of the afterlife?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Well, first of all, I am a Christian, so I'm
a very strong believer in the afterlife based on my
Christian beliefs and principles. In fact, given the fact I've
actually had what I would call miraculous experiences myself that
basically being raised as a Catholic, I don't really I
(08:35):
didn't really give it a lot of credence until I
was taking philosophy and my undergraduates, and I had to
write a paper on the cosmological and ontological existence of God.
And after writing that paper, it was like, holy cow,
this is really cool. There's a different God the way
that I always seen God. And then I eventually would
(08:56):
go on to have my own experiences, encounters that would
literally blow the doors off of me. But with that
said George, which is interesting, I once saw what was
a possession with my own eyes, and literally I was
one of twelve men that eventually had to hold this
twenty something year old guy down that was speaking in
(09:17):
Arabic languages that were incomprehensible. He was foaming up a
mouth and I saw the eyes. There was no mistaken
and I'll say, honestly, I was shaken by that experience.
And even doing the show, catching stuff on film that
we've seen makes you a believer that even if you
(09:37):
weren't a believer in God so to speak, or that
you know that extent, you still go, Holy Cow, there
is something thereafter, and it's unexplainable.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What do you think at this point, Peter is a ghost?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I think for the most part. George and I studied
and read some of the Warrens where Ed and Lorraine
Warrens and that stuff, and Ed was a pretty straight shooter.
I believe a lot of the stuff they did, and
you know, these Conjuring series movies was sensationalized. However, you
have to look at some of the places Ed was
invited into it, and you know, we're talking about military places.
(10:18):
We're talking about really distinct places and people giving their
testimonials about it. So I believe a lot of it,
and even Ed was, you know, to use kind of
his now or his way of prescribing it, that a
lot of it is residual energies, so to speak, whatever
(10:40):
that is. It's like a projection. It's like something playing
itself over and over, and it's not conscious or aware
of you being there, and it's just like it's a
a polar right or a video tape of the film. However,
I remember reading though, and he says, when they're capable
of moving stuff and tormenting you, that's when you throw
the g It's an apparition out the window, and that's
(11:01):
more of a something like a demonic entity.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
There were some famous Canadian Poultergeist cases back in the seventies.
You were involved in some of those cases, weren't you, Well,
I was.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
I'm not that old, but I knew two of the cops.
Being working with various police services for USS all the
way up to the federal level, both sides of the
US and Canadian border. I got to know a lot
of cops over the years. And rule number one, which
is interesting and having tought cops for thirty years, is
(11:39):
cops will never write up in a police report in
their wildest dreams or imagination, anything to do with ghosts
or Poultergeist because nobody's ever gonna want to. You know,
They're going to be seen as you're going to be crazy,
you know. And for twenty eight days, George, we had
in nineteen seventy one of the most famous Poultergeist case,
not only in Canadian North American history, about the world.
(12:01):
And I got to know two of the cops that
I spoke less than we'll say, twenty five years after
this had happened, so everything was very fresh in their memories.
They were both there, Mike Mooney and the late great
Robert Scottie Crawford who was rased from Scotland, who became
a company came over from Scotland and they gave me
(12:25):
the seven police reports that I still have to this day.
And these were police reports that would be signed equivalently
by the police services as well as what you would
call a district attorney in the United States that had
witnessed all this. So you know, it was real.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Dramatic stuff, isn't that?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It was really scary, especially when cops are telling you,
you know, there's a kid on a bed that's hovering
two three feet off of the ground. Everything's floating around
in the room, blowing off the walls. Three adults sitting
on a coach, well equivalent of your district attorney is
about to start interviewing them, and the coach starts levitating
(13:08):
off of the ground, where one of the witnesses on
the coach jumps off screaming, and the Crown Attorney runs
out of there, leaves his brand new coat behind, and
he says, I want no part of this. This is whacked.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
How haunted Peter is Niagara compared to other regions of
the world.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I would say, if you're looking and doing comparisons, I
would say we are your Gettysburg, that sort of area.
There's a fellow that I did he was in some
of the TVs shows that I did Jack Kenna, who's
very well known as a paranormal investigator in the States.
And Jack said, you know, he was doing a taping
(13:49):
in Gettysburg before he made his way up to Canada
for stuff with my team and that stuff. And I
remember Jack saying, he goes, wow, he goes, you got
to take for what it's worth. He goes, neck and neck.
We got to say that Gettysburg and where I'm living now,
Niagarn the Lake Got'd probably be two of the most
haunted places in North America because of all the bloodshed
(14:11):
from War of eighteen twelve. And that's what a lot
of this is, George. It's that's what people are seeing.
We have a golf course down my neck of the woods.
It's a Nagron. The lake is considered one of the
most beautiful locations in Canada, not North America, as well
as Lewiston, New York, across the ditch from US, and
people report seeing, you know, headless and limbless soldiers walking
(14:34):
around the street or even on the golf course.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You're right, it's like our Gettysburg because we get a
lot of those reports too.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, And I think you know interesting, you had to
ask me about what do I think a ghost is
or I think what they're seeing? And from the people
that I've spoken to, and a lot of it is
anecdotal stories passed down. We're a little saying, you know,
I saw it, and some people will say they try
to interact with it, but they would say it just
looked like a film projector almost like if you've been
(15:05):
to Disney World in the Haunted Mansion and you're on
the cart going around it. You can watch people dancing
in that ballroom, so to speak, but you know you
can see them, but they can't see you because they're
basically holograms, and that's what these are like for them.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
You mentioned some cases that you've come across by what
would you say was the most frightening episode you've experienced.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
It was twenty seventeen and we were filming in an
old bed and breakfast and this was a very very
famous place, and there was twelve of us that day
because we brought extras onto the shoot, including a retired
high ranking captain in the military. Here. We brought them
(15:49):
on as a guest as to show them what was
going on, and while we were filming George, and I'm
sitting there that we had two individuals that are really
well known in their own right in Canada doing a
spirit box session and whatever they were talking to, you know,
(16:10):
you could hear whatever it is coming through the spirit box.
And I'm gonna be honest once again, I'm very skeptical
with a lot of stuff until it starts saying my
own name on there and telling me stuff about me.
Then I'm thinking, Okay, how are they doing this or whatever.
But what was scary about this, George, is what I
heard as well. As there was a twelve of us
in our group plus others, there something spoke in the
(16:33):
room we were filming, and it was a giant, giant
room and I caught it on tape and it filled
the room. The voice did it didn't come through the
spirit box system, came auditorily into the room and just
after it said it whatever you know, it said ole kay,
(16:54):
and it was just creepy as heck, and I remember
almost falling backwards going wow, didn't see that one coming.
And behind the individuals with the spirit box, all of
a sudden I saw this thing run up the wall.
It looked like a giant cockroach. Or a giant crab
or something, and it was white, and it went up
the wall and disappeared into the ceiling. And then if
(17:18):
that wasn't enough, one of the owners of the B
and B started having a massive panic attack, which the team.
One of the members on the team, as a nurse, said, wow,
that could possibly be a heart attack. And this was
getting really bizarre. But what happened worse than that, George.
It shook a lot of people up, George. But that
night I was single, living alone at the time, and
(17:41):
I had the precarious notion that something was standing in
my bedroom door watching me all night, and I just
thought okay, and I was up all night for whatever reason,
I felt kind of rattled, and the next couple days
I felt really off. So I started talking to other
people on the team. That night, everybody that I'd spoke
and just said they saw they ether saw shadows following
(18:03):
them where they felt like they were being followed. So
one of the members of the team that does a
lot of work in demonology and that stuff, she had
seen it, and other people had seen it, and the
history of this B and B had shadow figures, and
I remember at that point there this member of the
team who's very celebrated in this field said, shadow figures, Peter,
(18:25):
just so you know, those are demonic entities and the
B and B. When these individuals bought it upstairs, unbeknownst
to them because they had a history of bad things
and people staying there, leaving and never wanting to come back,
they had redid the floor upstairs on the third level,
and underneath the rug they found a pentagram and wijaboards
(18:46):
and that stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
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George Noory
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