September 8, 2024 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- How and why the AR became the most popular rifle in America. Randy Luth of DPMS Panther Arms and Luth-AR explains.
-- Building strange and unusual cartridges, experimenting by combining different parts.
Gun Talk 09.08.23 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- How and why the AR became the most popular rifle in America. Randy Luth of DPMS Panther Arms and Luth-AR explains.
-- Building strange and unusual cartridges, experimenting by combining different parts.
Gun Talk 09.08.23 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger SFAAR is one of the trim is three
eight modern sporting rifles available more power but lighter in
the field and range. See how light it is at
Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
All right, Hey, I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun
Talk and we're still talking about guns because nobody can
make us stop.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
That's what we do around here.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
If you want to be part of it, give me
a holler eight sixty six talk gun or Tom talkgun.
That'll get you in here. And by the way, just
kind of up inside baseball there. If you hear noises
like airplanes, yes, we have airplanes buzzing all around our house.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
We have four fire tankers that are buzzing around, scooping
water out of the lake right in front of us
and dropping them on the fire right behind us. So
there you go. That's the sound you hear occasionally as
they buzz by. I'm glad to have them here. It's
kind of like have my own little private air show.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
As we do this thing.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So a lot of talk right now in the news
everywhere about AR fifteens, and of course we have Kamala
Harris and Tim Wallas that want to ban AAR fifteens.
I don't know that they could define them, don't know
what they are. Tim Waltz says that he carried an
assault weapon in combat, or of course he didn't, He's
a liar. That's a whole different subject. So what is
(01:10):
the AR fifteen, what does it do, what's it used for?
Where's its place and everything? Who better to talk about
that than our friend Randy Luth, the founder. He was
one of the first people involved in the real promotion
of AR fifteen's. Way back at DPMs to paint their
arms now as Luth they are. And Randy, did you
pull over the side of the road or you're on
your way back home from visiting us at Range Ready Studios?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Hello?
Speaker 5 (01:33):
Tom, Yes, I just pulled off the interstate here in
beautiful Nebraska, somewhere near North Platte, headed to my little
place up in Colorado. My truck is loaded with AR fifteen's.
I even have a bolt act, couple of bolt actions.
I've got a sigsur what SBX and some handguns and
(01:54):
I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I bet you are. So when was it the deep
MS Panther arms got started?
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Well, I started DPMSS officially in nineteen eighty six. Prior
to that, I worked at a precision machine shop. We're
making M sixteen parts for Uncle Sam for the army,
as well as nineteen eleven parts M two or three parts.
I'm sixteen parts. So that's kind of how I got
inducted into the AR fifteen. And then just at DPMSS,
(02:27):
I was doing government contract consulting for fellow machine shop
owners in the Minneapolis five state area, and then started
coming up with some other better ideas and you know,
accessories and so on for the AR and then started
got my manufacturing license ineen ninety one or ninety two,
(02:48):
bought Essentral Arms lower receivers in ninety three, and just
continued to look for ways to make them look cooler
and make them shoot better. So it's it's been a
good fun run.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So for a lot of people, that was before they
even became really aware of AR fifteens. And I know
you probably get this question all the time from people
who don't really understand it. They said, well, what is
it about an AR fifteen that you like so much?
Of course I always start off with, well, you understand,
it's just a rifle. I mean, there are a lot
of different kinds of semi automatic rifles. But so what
(03:21):
do you do with how do you explain to people
what we all do where they ares.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Well, it's like a corvette, right, Everybody wants to have
a Corvette because they're cool and sexy and fun and fast.
And the beauty of the AR is that it's modular,
so it's easy to buy stuff and fix it up
and make it cool for what you want to be.
It's not about anything other than that. It's that simple,
(03:51):
and that's why it's the most popular rifle in the
past twenty thirty years, whatever, thirty five, forty years. But
you're right, Tom. Back in the eighties, it was just
there was shotgun News and that was it, and so
if you wanted parts for an AR fifteen you had
to go to shotgun News. None of the magazines had
(04:12):
any advertisements for it. In fact, DPMs we were the
first ones. I've been told to run AR fifteen ads
in Outdoor Life Magazine, Field and Stream and of course
all the other magazines once it started to become popular.
So it's been excitement. It's an exciting, cool looking fire arm.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
It really isn't it'll do it. You don't think you
want a rifle to do.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I mean, I know you've hunted with ars all over
the place, so they're used by hunters or used by
competition shooters. It is the people who are not gunsmiths.
You still can kind of gunsmith and ar because it's
really just putting parts together.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Yeah, yep, it is. And one of the things that
we did back in the early nineties coyote hunting and
prey dog hunting was varmin hunt was starting to become
real popular, and of course, what better way than to
use than to hunt those critters vermin than with an ar.
So so we we just tried to cater to that market.
(05:13):
We came out with production bull barrels, fluted bull barrels,
stainless steel, you know, enhanced the handguards, more skeletonized butt stocks.
We were the first ones at DPMs kind of blowing
my horn here to uh to apply night trick coding
to gun parts. That was that was, that was with
(05:35):
titanium night trick coding in my machine shop days, tool
grinding days. Somebody a drill company they applied titanum nitrit
coding to drills and endmills. So we were you know,
we ground those, We ground end mills, we ground drills,
we sharpened tools that had titanum nitrite on it. So
(05:58):
when I when I got involved in the AR fifteen
parts business, I came up with the idea to apply
titanium nitri coding. This is in the eighties, this is
probably eighty seven. So we took AR fifteen hammers, triggers, disconnectors,
bull carriers, bolts, supplied titanum nitrit coding to it. Because
the machines that deposited the vacuum in a vacuum chamber,
(06:21):
the titanium nitrite coatings. Those machines are made by multi
ark As Saint Paul, Minnesota, So hence we had a
close background to do that and did that, and we
just reintroduced luth aar more titanum nitrit coded parts are
just last year.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Well that's a perfect segue because my next questions are
going to be tell people about luth Ar that you have.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Now, what does this company? What do you guys do well?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Luth R I had a five after I sold DPMs
to the Servers Group and Freedom Group. Then I came
up with an adjustable butt stock. They chose not to
to use it at the new DPMs or bush Master,
which they owned. So I had a five year no
compete contract and after five years I didn't like the
(07:11):
fact that they didn't choose my butt stock. So I
started up Luke a R. And launched the NBA one
butt stock, and then that led to where we started
DPMs from. So it's we're having fun. My daughter Heather
and son in law Jesse and Shane from DPMs, Paul
from DPMs, some other DPMs people were having fun. Again.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That is terrific, all right, So tell me about this.
The slogan you came up with two B four to one.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
I don't know why I came up with it, but
we launched it. I think we tried a trademark it
and had some difficulties with the patent trademark. But two
before one, the number two, the capital letter B, number
four number one. The logic was thinking about Bill of Rights.
You have the first Amendment and you have the Second Amendment.
(08:04):
Those are probably the two most popular. So two before
one stands for the second Amendment before the first, because
in my opinion, the second Amendment should be the first amendment.
And I'll guarantee it. Tom the founding fathers when they're
writing up the Bill of Rights. They're going, okay, well,
we had to have the guns to beat the British,
(08:25):
but it was based upon the freedom of speech. So
what do we have first? And of course the First
Amendment was first and second ament was second. That's how
important the Second Amendment was. But two before one. My
opinion is second Amendment should have been the first amendment.
And we're getting a little bit of traction with our
hats and shirts and so on, and we get a
(08:48):
lot of customers that are buying a product. So it's
been ok.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
If somebody wants the T shirt or a hat, this
says two before one with your logo, where do they
go for that?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
So they go to our website dot com and we've
got them on our website for sale, and it sends
the message.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
It's louth a R l u t h a r
dot com.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Right, luthdashar dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Okay, luth dash ar dot com. Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So what were you doing over at rains Ready Studios
in Louisiana with Ryan and Crew.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
Well, I was there a few days ago and we
had big fun. I was picking on Chris Frito, but
we we were talking about we're doing the build box
deal with the retro stuff. So the original M sixteen.
Now that you have basically what twenty million AR owners
out there, right, so a lot of a lot of
(09:44):
the AR owners want to collect the original. So of
course the M sixteen had a slick side up receiver
and a one uppers being shorter and trying your handguards.
So a lot of h good Americans are buying the
retro stuff. And then even now with the A two
which came out in the mid to late eighties, the
(10:06):
A two version with US Army, people are starting to
collect that and some of the OEMs are picking up
as well on that tell Metal Springfield Armory, and so
so we're having kind of a resurgent of that resurgence
of that, and of course we may con sell a
lot of those retro parts own tooling for a lot
(10:28):
of those so.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
We built they were.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Okay, you're I'm sorry you're shooting that for the new
season of Billbox TV.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Correct the retro stuff yet and we had fun good deal.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well look, hell Heather and the crew, Hello for us.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You got a wonderful family and a great crew of
people who are real Americans who really enjoy the shooting.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Sports, and thank you for everything you do.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Randy lou Well, Tom, thank you for everything you do
because you are the man. Appreciate everything you do. For
our second moment, Well.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I appreciate that. I appreciate you pull over and being
safe while you're driving. I get back on the road, partner,
dear buddy, all right, you take care eight six '
six talk gun retro. It's like building your own fifty
seven Chevy or something. I like that idea.
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Speaker 2 (13:38):
It's not funny. I'm talking with Randy luth. I mean,
he was one of the pioneers of making AR fifteenth popular.
DPMs panther arms. Start out by making parts and getting
into making full urs and tweaking him up, and then
of course he did it before we talk about your timing.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
He did a great job.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He sold a company to the Servers Group. He probably
don't know Serbus, but you do know Remington. That was
part of the whole Future Capitalists people who bought Reminton
and DPMs and Bushmaster and a whole bunch of other
companies and ren thement of the ground and just.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Really screwed a lot of things up.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
But he got out just in time, made good money
out of it, and now he's doing looth Ar, which
is a really cool company, and doing some other stuff.
You never know what Randy's going to be up to,
but his talking about the interest in retro in ars,
and what's happening is the people are building ars to
look like the old style sixteen's, if you will, Vietnam era.
(14:37):
And the thing is they'll say, Okay, this is a
like a nineteen seventy six build, or this is a
nineteen eighty four build and this is up because they
know what parts were being used then, and so now
you can buy all those parts and put them back
on your lower receiver and start building up your gun
and make it look like those I mean, clearly, it's not,
you know, a fill auto, it's not a select fire.
(14:57):
It's still a semiato. It works the same, but it
it looks cooler. And if you're into that. And I'm thinking,
as he's talking, going huh, And I was later coming
to ars. I started in eighty four, maybe a little
later NET, no later NET ninety four when they passed
(15:19):
the Clinton gun ban, the ninety four so called a
saw weapons ban, And that's when I started getting interested
in it. Because my attitude was pretty simple. I wasn't
into it and I didn't really care about him. But
the moment they said we're going to make it where
you can't buy him, I said, well, yes I can.
You can't tell me I can't buy this. So I
(15:40):
went out and bought a couple of them to start
off with before the band went into effect. Of course,
what happened was the so called Clinton gun band. They're
so called a saw weapon Ban of nineteen eighty four
ended up actually being a band on a few cosmetics.
They said, well, you can't have a flash of pressure on. Okay,
we take the flash of pressure off. It'll just be
a bear barrel and now it's legal. Or you can't
(16:01):
have this, or you can't have that. I want to
take those off. It was a silly cosmetic law about
silly cosmetics on guns. And somehow they said we have
banned these guns. They never did. They never cut down.
Not only did they let's just back up, not only
did they not cut down on the number of AR
fifteens that were sold, they vastly increased the number of
(16:27):
AR fifteens that were sold. It is the perfect law
of unintended consequences because frankly, a lot of people in
the gun world didn't know about ars, didn't care about rs.
They're using the bolt action rifles, and they're using their
Remitton semi automatic rifle. I mean yet, a Remington's semi
(16:47):
automatic rifle that shot a thirty out to six cartridge
much much, much more powerful than the two two three
in an AR, and people weren't paying attention. But as
soon as the gun banners got in there and Diane
Feinstein said, if I could have gotten the votes, so
I would have banned them all, mister and missus America
pick them all up.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Since they started doing that.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
People started paying attention to going, wait, what what is
the AAR fifteen?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
What is that thing? And started looking at it and going, Oh,
it's light. It's really lightweight, and it's pretty short, and
it's really ergonomically designed. And it shoots two two, three
or five five six cartridge roughly the same thing that
has basically no.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Recoil at all. Oh, this is actually fun to shoot.
I might like to get one of those.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And all of a.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Sudden, because because they tried to ban them, they caused
them to be wildly popular. Once again unintended consequences. Right, Hey,
let's go to UH line five bills with us in Idaho.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Bill, you're on gun Talk there.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Hey, Tom, I've listened to you for years. I'm in
Idaho now, but for years up in Alaska, and I
lived in the bush and hunted all over and I
have I'm an AR guy, I'm an old marine. I
was in Vietnam sixty nine to seventy, carried to standard
now sixteen that DPMs. I did my research and you
know the old scout carbing or field rifle that comes
(18:23):
with the bipodge built into the four in and everything.
DPMs Research came up along and a little bit better
than that to replace it in the field. I have
the seven six two by fifty one red dot bipodge
on it. Magpole magazines. I gotta tell you, Tom, that's
a beautiful weapon. Handles well, feeds well, no recoils, minimal,
(18:50):
very accurate. It's got flip up sites, magpole sites that
flip up. It's got a lot of Magpole on it,
which I do like. But I just listened to your
asked and he's got a winner there. That AR style
of Recon two is what I have DPMs Recon two.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
What is it that you like about it and what
do you do with it?
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Well? I bought it for two legged targets in the
future because I hung with my other rifles. I've got
my long range, my Model seventies and whatnot. I use
my AR fifteen for kyotes. But this EPM was purchased
for a single purpose. And I think you know what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Okay, I mean, curR, you're talking about it. That's my
personnelity if the no, if you're talking about it, if
like the stuff, it's the fan. You need something that
can reach out a little further. And I understand a
lot of people are buying them for that. And for
those who don't know, the seventy six two by fifty
one is the three away carters. So you're and let
me get back to you. This is basically it's an
(19:53):
AR ten platform, right correct? So where at Idaho are
you see?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
It's an AR fifteen design, but AR ten platform. And
aside from if I had to hunt with it, I would,
but I've got my long range three hundred win megan
to seventy short Magan and I know for any big game.
But I'm seventy four now and I've killed about everything
you can kill in Alaska. I'm kind of just going
(20:20):
to lay back and look at my trophies on the wall.
But this DPMs, as my study research and a lot
of magazines really surpassed the Scout carving, which is an
amazing rifle.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Also, what part of Iaho did you move to.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
I'm out in a little town called Tuna. It's outside
of Boise, about eighteen miles I'm from I'm from Alaska.
Speaker 9 (20:47):
I lived out of Lake Clark.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
I was a contractor in Anchorage, and a lady with
the phone in her face at forty five miles an
hour ran into me and my son's paint van and
I on my side and broke my neck and broke
a screw of the VA put in there. So I
was done building. So I headed down to Kenna, nice
little town.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Cuna is a nice place just south of Boise. And yeah,
in your part of the world, there's a guy named
Jim Comby Elite Rifle Works. He's down there, not very
far from you, near Cuna. You might drop in and
see Jim. He's got a nice little small shop and
really knows what he's doing. Works only on bolt action rifles,
that's a specialty, and he is really good. So I'm
(21:29):
guessing that's like five miles from you. So check out
Elite Rifle Works down there in Cuna area.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So there you go. Thank you for the call. I
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, the AR platform, it could be in AR ten,
it could be AR fifteen different sizes to take different
size cartridges. And now, of course I've got a lot
of people shooting ars in with six five Creedmores and
other calibers. That's again one of the things you can do,
swap out the arper. You're shooting different cartridges, different calibers.
It is ultimately adjustable and modifiable. Weird word, and maybe
(22:01):
that's one of the things we don't like about them
so much. And if you get into them, you're gonna
be like the rest of them. You're not gonna have one,
You're gonna have several. I'm not gonna ask you how
many you have, but I bet you have more than one. Seriously,
(22:22):
I am so easily amused. It's like I keep sending
pictures to Jim Schell during the show. Here, I'm taking
pictures from the studio as the fire fighter planes are
going by, and so I get videos. It's like an
air show going on. So we're having fun. I kind
of sort of. You don't mind having huge fires blowing
up all around you, I mean big forest fires. But
(22:44):
you know, so far, so good. They'll let us know
if we have to leave. Our number here is eight
six six Talk Gun and Talk Gun. It's Tom Talk Gun.
It's easy to remember it that way. I'm Tom Gresh,
I'm your host, and it's called Gun Talk. If you
want to follow me during the week, go for a
goal to x, Twitter, whatever you want to call it.
I am at gun Talk over there, and I post
(23:05):
a lot of stories links to news stories if you
want to stay informed of what's going on in the
court cases, that type of thing. We just had a
kind of a weird split decision in the Ninth Circuit,
which was kind of a win because we had a
bad panel. We knew it was terrible, terrible panel in
terms of gun rights, but they made a weird decision
(23:26):
about they call it sensitive places gun free zones.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And the weird part was they actually split it and.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Said, well, in Hawaii they can have more gun free
zones than you can have in California, because in California
that would be unconstitutional, but in Hawaii it's not unconstitutional.
Going you know, that doesn't make any sense, right, this
is a federal court. You're ruling on federal laws. You
know that doesn't make any sense at all. We'll see
(23:53):
it's but we won some, we lost some on that one.
As with all of this, it all gets appealed at
some point and goes up the ladder. We'll see where
that goes. Weird stuff going on there. Oh, by the way,
the Gun Rights Policy Conference is going to be held
in about three weeks in San Diego. It is free
for anybody to attend. If you go to s A
F dot orgus like Cierra Alpha Fox Trot, it actually
(24:16):
stands for Second Amendment Foundation. S AF dot orgon will
have the information on the Gun Rights Policy Conference and
where it is and when, and you can attend it
for free.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It doesn't caution anything. Gonna be some great speakers there.
I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I'll be hosting the awards banquet on Saturday. So look
forward to seeing you there if you can make it
there again. Our number here is eight sixty six Talk Gun.
That's the Casey line three, Medford, Oregon. Gonna build something,
Frankenstein Gun.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
What are you? What are you working on here?
Speaker 9 (24:48):
Like like all round catters, I want the I want
the only one in camp. I want to be sitting
around the fire with half a dozen of my buddies
and I pull a case out and hand it to
someby are like, what what the world is that? So
my brilliant idea. You know, metric calibers besides the seven
rem meg and the and the new six to five
creed more well seven rem meag back in the what
(25:08):
fifties or sixties or maybe forties or the super mash Burn.
I'm thinking three seventy eight or a five or five
gibs case next to eight millimeter. So we have the
eight reb mag which is a unicorn in and of itself,
and it's fantastic cartridge. But I'm thinking, what if instead
of the three thirty eight by three seventy eight we
did a three twenty three by three seventy eight eight
(25:33):
by three seven eight other words, or what if we
go a little bit bitter and we like five oh five gibs.
It's it's been done one time. And what I've read
on the on the interwebs was, oh, if I'm right,
it was a two twenty going thirty six. But that's that's.
Speaker 10 (25:53):
What I've read.
Speaker 9 (25:54):
I don't know that'd be anyway your thoughts on on
on the Only Unicorn in Camp and I I love
your show and never missed one.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, Casey, look, you understand you covered the whole thing
when you said you're a handloader, you're a wildcatder and
then you start off with what if, because that's how
we ended up with the thirty five Whalen and a
lot of the cartridges we have. Now somebody said, well,
what if we neck this up, or what if we
neck this down?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
What if we took that case? But we've been loaded
it for that bullet.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
You know, It's like I'm looking at it and going, Okay,
the selection of eight millimeter bullets out there is not
that great. If you were go to three thirty eight,
you would have a much much wider selection of bullets,
and really good bullets. Now that we got the three
thirty eight Lapoor, they're making some really nice long range
bullets with that. Would you consider instead of going to
(26:49):
eight milimeter going to three thirty eight?
Speaker 9 (26:53):
Well, there's a three thirty eight by three seventy which
I have. There's a thirty three thirty which I have.
I have a thirty three dozzler I love, and that's
I wouldn't say it's a standard action. It's not a
short action, but if it's a it's three three forty overall,
so success length I'm looking for. I'm looking. I'm looking
When I pull that case out of my out of
(27:15):
my vest pocket of the campfire and hand the guy
next to me, I want to just I want that.
What did you do?
Speaker 10 (27:22):
Look?
Speaker 9 (27:22):
And I think and everybody will spend the mono mold.
You can always make Monoi Monel metal bullets whatever side
you want.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know, you can turn them a length. Yeah, you
can make bullets whatever you want to be. Yeah, I
mean you're looking for the ultimate. Uh, I got the
only one in camp thing. I get that. So, I
mean here's the deal. My advice on that is absolutely,
go for it. There's no downside. You clearly know what
you're doing. Why not just do it? I mean it's
(27:52):
like perfect, Just get the thing and go. Look, I
got the only one in town.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I'm for it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Do this after you build a us A call back
and let us know how it worked out.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Okay, casey, Yeah, Second question, we do I do it
on a Brevet Mauser Bolt or a Rugger number one,
because that's that's I'm down to those two for the
five h five case.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well, you know the problem is, I mean you're talking
about two so very different things. Ruger number one, you're
going to go classic far quarts and singles, shot lever
action falling block style versus a big action bolt action.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You know what the correct answer is?
Speaker 9 (28:29):
Both you know what, when I build it, I'm going
to invite you to the campfire. I'll send you a case.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
That would be great, great call. Thank you, sir, I
appreciate that. That was so much fun. All right, Age
six six talk gonna be right back.
Speaker 11 (28:48):
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Speaker 12 (29:50):
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(30:12):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 13 (30:20):
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Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know, we're all over the place with the questions
and comments and thoughts that we're doing here, and so
it really doesn't matter. If there's something on your mind.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Just call us. We'll talk about it. Eight six ' six.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Talk gun and look, if you're somebody that doesn't like guns,
or you're wondering why we do like guns. That's a conversation,
it's worth having. And you can certainly give me a
call about that again. Call me at Tom Talk Gun Jackson, Denver, Colorado.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
He called in, Hey, Jack, what's on your mind? Sir?
Speaker 10 (31:30):
Hey?
Speaker 14 (31:30):
Hey, So, yeah, unfortunately I kind of got a question
around school shooting scenarios.
Speaker 9 (31:35):
I'm sure really.
Speaker 14 (31:37):
New to the firearm community. I've got a kid that
just started kindergarten, so it's you know, always on the
frontal level of my mind of you know, what can happen.
So my question is, should you end up in a
situation and you're trying to assist, you know, apprehend an offender,
is there any tactful way or anything you can do
(31:59):
to not be stake and as the offenders so for
when the second responders show up that they're not despiring
any guy with a weapon. And I've got to kind
of a follow up related question, is it historically you
know of is it common where there is a citizen
sort of character that does apprehend an offender in these
(32:20):
kind of cases.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Okay, there are several things involved with your questions. Yes,
there have been several situations where regular citizens have intervened
and stopped mass shootings. But I can tell from your
question that we need to address something. You don't have
any training in this, because when you say apprehend, that
tells me you don't know what you're talking about. We're
(32:44):
not there to apprehend. We're there to shoot the SOB
dead as a hammer. We're not trying to arrest anybody.
We're not trying to do If it gives up before
we shoot him, that's fine, we'll lett him do that.
But in the situation like this, we're moving in to
shoot the SOB, nothing else.
Speaker 14 (33:01):
Yeah, yeah, fair enough, you are correct.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Okay, So what that tells me is that before you
even consider doing something like this, you need to go
get some training. And I'm not talking about how to
hit a target training. I'm talking about how to move
through a building with a gun and shoot multiple targets training.
This is high level stuff. If you don't know how
(33:25):
to do it, you can make a mess of it.
You could shoot the wrong person, you could shoot yourself
and almost certainly get yourself killed in the process, either
by the bad guy or by the cops. Directly to
your question, it is a real concern of I don't
know how best to identify yourself as a good guy.
The cops don't know that you're a good guy. They
can't see your halo. You know, the chances are, Look,
(33:51):
if you're in a situation like that and the cops
are coming, you do not do not want to be
standing there with a gun in your hand, because if
you are, you're going to get shot.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
You are going to get shot.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
If you're standing there with a gun in your hand,
either put it in a holster, or put it on
the ground and get away from it and get your
hands on the ground, hands in the air, or you
on the ground. But they when they come in, they
are looking for someone with a gun to shoot, and
if you're the person with a gun, you're going to
get shot. So there it is. I mean, I was
(34:25):
just like, Okay, I'm glad you're asking the questions, and
I'm going to encourage you strongly to find a place
that can teach you this kind of stuff of how
to how to get how to move, how to shoot,
how to move and shoot at the same time, how
to reload, how to move around corners, how to move
through doors, how to move down hallways, how to move upstairs,
(34:46):
how to move downstairs.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Each of those is its own.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Tactical situation that are specific techniques on going up the
stairs or going down the stairs. Where do you point
the gun? How do you where you look? How do
you move? How do you move around corners? How do
you go down the hallway? Do you know how to
look far and then look close? In those situations? It's
(35:11):
it's I'm just telling you, it's a lot. And trust
me when I tell you that if you're the good
guy with a gun and the cops come in, there's
a very good chance you're gun and get shot. I
have some ideas of things you could do, but I'm
not even going to throw them out there, because if
you don't have a fairly decent level of training, multiple multiple,
(35:33):
multiple days of this kind of training, I'm going to
encourage you just to not not get involved in that situation.
Just just my take. Okay, let's see, let's grab Patrick
online three out of Arkansas. Hey, Patrick, you're on gun Talk.
How canway help you today? Oh it's line four. I'm sorry,
it looks like Patrick's line four.
Speaker 10 (35:54):
Sir, I am go ahead, Patrick, and Love has got
a thirty two rim fire and he cannot find any
any cartages for it.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Oh yeah, no kidding. Does he have any AMMO for
it now at all?
Speaker 10 (36:19):
None? Who's rifle?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Ummm.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You know you could check online, just do a search
for thirty two rim fire ammunition and you might be
able to find a place.
Speaker 9 (36:36):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You could check on a place like gunbroker online, gunbroker
dot com. You may find somebody selling AMMO for that.
But off the top of my head, I don't know
exactly where to go for that. Uh oh, it looks
like I'm just I'm doing some searches now. It looks
like on guns America somebody has some for sale. There's
a few places on that. So yeah, if you do
(36:58):
some uh online, I'm guessing you're going to be able
to find some mammal for that.
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Thank you. Yeah, he's been wanting to find some and
it's been brought. It's been dropped down in the family,
you know, from generation to generation, right, and he's got it.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
That's pretty cool though, to have a gun that you
can pass along to different people in the family. I
appreciate that, and thank you for the call, sir. Yeah,
I just had a friend of mine have to go
this week. Family member died a couple months ago and
he had to go help out with a disposition of firearms.
Several things can happen when somebody dies in if there
(37:45):
are guns in the estate. Sometimes somebody will just sell
the guns and not know what they're worth, and they
can get taken on that deal. Sometimes a different family
member will come in and take them, knowing what they're worth,
and they just disappear with them. Sometimes somebody takes them
and doesn't know anything about them. If you're in a
(38:07):
situation where you don't know what they're worth, or if
you want to sell a bunch of guns like that
and you don't know where to go, man may sa
a suggestion to you. My friend Johnny Dourry, he does that.
That's what he does Dorry's Guns down in San Antonio,
but they do this all over the country.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Just go to.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Dorrysguns dot Com. Contact them that way. When my dad died,
that's exactly your I did. They bought a couple hundred
guns and I got a fair deal out of it.
They do very good, you know, trustworthy operation. I trust
them completely. So if you have one gun or hundreds
of guns. Dirrysguns dot Com is a really good place
(38:47):
to go for that. I just cannot recommend them highly enough.
They just do good work. Eight six six Talk Gun
or Tom Talkgun. Gets you in here, still got time,
We're open lines, give me a shout, all right back
(39:08):
with you. Usually at this point I give a call
and say, hey, call it in after the after show.
But about thirty seconds ago I just got the text.
It says it's a go Now we're going to be evacuated,
So we're not going to do the after show today. Unfortunately,
we're gonna have to pack up and do evacuate because
the fires are in our area. So I apologize to
everybody that we're not gonna be able to get that
(39:29):
after show in today. Just some days it just doesn't
work out that way. In events, that's what they do.
Let's see. I was talking about the three thirty eight
out six rifle that I recently bought. I was doing
some loading for it. This week, have been able to
get out to the range. It's been a little bit crazy.
We got evacuated for two days earlier this week. It
looks like we're going to be out again. I don't
(39:52):
know for how long. So my plan was to take
it to the range tomorrow and shoot it. So I
guess that's probably not gonna happen, because if we're out today,
we're going to be out overnight and we'll see what happens.
It's weird, it's just this living with uncertainty. But it's
keep a bag packed all the time we're ready to go,
And I would recommend that everybody think about having a
(40:12):
go bag with a few essentials in it. Think about
what would I want to have in my go bag?
You know, a little bit of cash, a few simple things,
you know, a couple of changes of underwear, that type
of thing, and then if you have time, you can
always grab a few important things. You say, but what
are the things I would want to have if I
came back and there was nothing here.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
That's kind of the case. Now.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I went around and took video of the interior of
the whole house, because if you come back and the
whole house is gone, you need pictures for insurance. Just
to kind of a thing everybody to be aware of.
Those of us who have lived in hurricane country or
have been through things like that, we understand and sometimes
do you evacuate for years and years and nothing happens.
(40:56):
Then one time you evacuate and then there's nothing left
to come back to. That's what happened to Ryan with
Hurricane Katrina. They left thinking they're gonna be back in
two or three days, and there was no house to
come back to. Just what happens. So, oh, by the way,
we were going to Unfortunately I can't have a mom
because it's not going to the after show. We're going
to have kJ Kevin Jarnigan on the show for the
(41:18):
after show because he got a huge twelve foot gator
this morning in the Louisiana Alligator season. I don't know
what he used to shoot it, but I want to
find out a little bit more about that. But in
looking it up, it looks like a twelve foot gator
out to be seven to eight hundred pounds and worth
several different boots, if you will, I feel like alligator boots.
So we'll get that story in a future show. Pick
(41:40):
catch up with kJ on that they've been shooting the
Billbox Show this week and that will be appearing on
Outdoor Channel where they build cool rifles and do some
interesting stuff. You can see all of our videos on
our YouTube channel. Let's look for gun Talk Media, or
you can go to gun talk dot tv on the
web where we have quite literally thousands of videos of
(42:03):
shooting different kinds of guns and giving you some information,
some training.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
As it were.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
With our First Person Offender show that's been on the
air for ten seasons or more. Now that's kind of
crazy how long that has been going on. We cover
a lot of that stuff that you think you know,
that you don't know, because it problem is you don't know,
you don't know it. It's like our caller who said,
you know, if I want to go in and apprehend
a shooter, a school shooting, we don't apprehend. No, no, no,
(42:30):
leave that to the police. They may apprehend. If you're
going in to stop somebody who's killing kids, you're going
in to shoot them. Get that in your head, Get
that in your mind, you're and look, here's the deal.
Once we start shooting people, there's none of this drop
the weapon, hands up, any of that foolishness. No, the
first down they should hear is the gunshot going off.
As far as I'm concerned, that's the way I am
going to approach that, because my goal is to get
(42:52):
you to stop shooting people immediately. All bets are off
at that point. I'm not trying to apprehend. I'm not
trying to get you to give up. I'm not trying
to you need that stuff. I mean, if you happen
to give up before I shoot you, fine, but I
am going to shoot you and not lest you kill kids.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
That's the deal.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
If you don't understand that, if you haven't really incorporated
that into your being, you need more training, or you
need some training, and then you need more training because
once you get it, then you want more because you
understand that you need it. Hey be safe out there, everybody.
I got to go pack a bag. It is time
for us to go for the Sheriff's deep. And you
start beating on the door and saying, get out of here.
It's evacuation time for me. Take care of yourself and
(43:34):
your family well. Check in next week.
The Ruger SFAAR is one of the trim is three
eight modern sporting rifles available more power but lighter in
the field and range. See how light it is at
Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
All right, Hey, I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun
Talk and we're still talking about guns because nobody can
make us stop.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
That's what we do around here.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
If you want to be part of it, give me
a holler eight sixty six talk gun or Tom talkgun.
That'll get you in here. And by the way, just
kind of up inside baseball there. If you hear noises
like airplanes, yes, we have airplanes buzzing all around our house.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
We have four fire tankers that are buzzing around, scooping
water out of the lake right in front of us
and dropping them on the fire right behind us. So
there you go. That's the sound you hear occasionally as
they buzz by. I'm glad to have them here. It's
kind of like have my own little private air show.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
As we do this thing.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So a lot of talk right now in the news
everywhere about AR fifteens, and of course we have Kamala
Harris and Tim Wallas that want to ban AAR fifteens.
I don't know that they could define them, don't know
what they are. Tim Waltz says that he carried an
assault weapon in combat, or of course he didn't, He's
a liar. That's a whole different subject. So what is
(01:10):
the AR fifteen, what does it do, what's it used for?
Where's its place and everything? Who better to talk about
that than our friend Randy Luth, the founder. He was
one of the first people involved in the real promotion
of AR fifteen's. Way back at DPMs to paint their
arms now as Luth they are. And Randy, did you
pull over the side of the road or you're on
your way back home from visiting us at Range Ready Studios?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Hello?
Speaker 5 (01:33):
Tom, Yes, I just pulled off the interstate here in
beautiful Nebraska, somewhere near North Platte, headed to my little
place up in Colorado. My truck is loaded with AR fifteen's.
I even have a bolt act, couple of bolt actions.
I've got a sigsur what SBX and some handguns and
(01:54):
I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I bet you are. So when was it the deep
MS Panther arms got started?
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Well, I started DPMSS officially in nineteen eighty six. Prior
to that, I worked at a precision machine shop. We're
making M sixteen parts for Uncle Sam for the army,
as well as nineteen eleven parts M two or three parts.
I'm sixteen parts. So that's kind of how I got
inducted into the AR fifteen. And then just at DPMSS,
(02:27):
I was doing government contract consulting for fellow machine shop
owners in the Minneapolis five state area, and then started
coming up with some other better ideas and you know,
accessories and so on for the AR and then started
got my manufacturing license ineen ninety one or ninety two,
(02:48):
bought Essentral Arms lower receivers in ninety three, and just
continued to look for ways to make them look cooler
and make them shoot better. So it's it's been a
good fun run.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So for a lot of people, that was before they
even became really aware of AR fifteens. And I know
you probably get this question all the time from people
who don't really understand it. They said, well, what is
it about an AR fifteen that you like so much?
Of course I always start off with, well, you understand,
it's just a rifle. I mean, there are a lot
of different kinds of semi automatic rifles. But so what
(03:21):
do you do with how do you explain to people
what we all do where they ares.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Well, it's like a corvette, right, Everybody wants to have
a Corvette because they're cool and sexy and fun and fast.
And the beauty of the AR is that it's modular,
so it's easy to buy stuff and fix it up
and make it cool for what you want to be.
It's not about anything other than that. It's that simple,
(03:51):
and that's why it's the most popular rifle in the
past twenty thirty years, whatever, thirty five, forty years. But
you're right, Tom. Back in the eighties, it was just
there was shotgun News and that was it, and so
if you wanted parts for an AR fifteen you had
to go to shotgun News. None of the magazines had
(04:12):
any advertisements for it. In fact, DPMs we were the
first ones. I've been told to run AR fifteen ads
in Outdoor Life Magazine, Field and Stream and of course
all the other magazines once it started to become popular.
So it's been excitement. It's an exciting, cool looking fire arm.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
It really isn't it'll do it. You don't think you
want a rifle to do.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I mean, I know you've hunted with ars all over
the place, so they're used by hunters or used by
competition shooters. It is the people who are not gunsmiths.
You still can kind of gunsmith and ar because it's
really just putting parts together.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Yeah, yep, it is. And one of the things that
we did back in the early nineties coyote hunting and
prey dog hunting was varmin hunt was starting to become
real popular, and of course, what better way than to
use than to hunt those critters vermin than with an ar.
So so we we just tried to cater to that market.
(05:13):
We came out with production bull barrels, fluted bull barrels,
stainless steel, you know, enhanced the handguards, more skeletonized butt stocks.
We were the first ones at DPMs kind of blowing
my horn here to uh to apply night trick coding
to gun parts. That was that was, that was with
(05:35):
titanium night trick coding in my machine shop days, tool
grinding days. Somebody a drill company they applied titanum nitrit
coding to drills and endmills. So we were you know,
we ground those, We ground end mills, we ground drills,
we sharpened tools that had titanum nitrite on it. So
(05:58):
when I when I got involved in the AR fifteen
parts business, I came up with the idea to apply
titanium nitri coding. This is in the eighties, this is
probably eighty seven. So we took AR fifteen hammers, triggers, disconnectors,
bull carriers, bolts, supplied titanum nitrit coding to it. Because
the machines that deposited the vacuum in a vacuum chamber,
(06:21):
the titanium nitrite coatings. Those machines are made by multi
ark As Saint Paul, Minnesota, So hence we had a
close background to do that and did that, and we
just reintroduced luth aar more titanum nitrit coded parts are
just last year.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Well that's a perfect segue because my next questions are
going to be tell people about luth Ar that you have.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Now, what does this company? What do you guys do well?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Luth R I had a five after I sold DPMs
to the Servers Group and Freedom Group. Then I came
up with an adjustable butt stock. They chose not to
to use it at the new DPMs or bush Master,
which they owned. So I had a five year no
compete contract and after five years I didn't like the
(07:11):
fact that they didn't choose my butt stock. So I
started up Luke a R. And launched the NBA one
butt stock, and then that led to where we started
DPMs from. So it's we're having fun. My daughter Heather
and son in law Jesse and Shane from DPMs, Paul
from DPMs, some other DPMs people were having fun. Again.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That is terrific, all right, So tell me about this.
The slogan you came up with two B four to one.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
I don't know why I came up with it, but
we launched it. I think we tried a trademark it
and had some difficulties with the patent trademark. But two
before one, the number two, the capital letter B, number
four number one. The logic was thinking about Bill of Rights.
You have the first Amendment and you have the Second Amendment.
(08:04):
Those are probably the two most popular. So two before
one stands for the second Amendment before the first, because
in my opinion, the second Amendment should be the first amendment.
And I'll guarantee it. Tom the founding fathers when they're
writing up the Bill of Rights. They're going, okay, well,
we had to have the guns to beat the British,
(08:25):
but it was based upon the freedom of speech. So
what do we have first? And of course the First
Amendment was first and second ament was second. That's how
important the Second Amendment was. But two before one. My
opinion is second Amendment should have been the first amendment.
And we're getting a little bit of traction with our
hats and shirts and so on, and we get a
(08:48):
lot of customers that are buying a product. So it's
been ok.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
If somebody wants the T shirt or a hat, this
says two before one with your logo, where do they
go for that?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
So they go to our website dot com and we've
got them on our website for sale, and it sends
the message.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
It's louth a R l u t h a r
dot com.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Right, luthdashar dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Okay, luth dash ar dot com. Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So what were you doing over at rains Ready Studios
in Louisiana with Ryan and Crew.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
Well, I was there a few days ago and we
had big fun. I was picking on Chris Frito, but
we we were talking about we're doing the build box
deal with the retro stuff. So the original M sixteen.
Now that you have basically what twenty million AR owners
out there, right, so a lot of a lot of
(09:44):
the AR owners want to collect the original. So of
course the M sixteen had a slick side up receiver
and a one uppers being shorter and trying your handguards.
So a lot of h good Americans are buying the
retro stuff. And then even now with the A two
which came out in the mid to late eighties, the
(10:06):
A two version with US Army, people are starting to
collect that and some of the OEMs are picking up
as well on that tell Metal Springfield Armory, and so
so we're having kind of a resurgent of that resurgence
of that, and of course we may con sell a
lot of those retro parts own tooling for a lot
(10:28):
of those so.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
We built they were.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Okay, you're I'm sorry you're shooting that for the new
season of Billbox TV.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Correct the retro stuff yet and we had fun good deal.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well look, hell Heather and the crew, Hello for us.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You got a wonderful family and a great crew of
people who are real Americans who really enjoy the shooting.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Sports, and thank you for everything you do.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Randy lou Well, Tom, thank you for everything you do
because you are the man. Appreciate everything you do. For
our second moment, Well.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I appreciate that. I appreciate you pull over and being
safe while you're driving. I get back on the road, partner,
dear buddy, all right, you take care eight six '
six talk gun retro. It's like building your own fifty
seven Chevy or something. I like that idea.
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Speaker 2 (13:38):
It's not funny. I'm talking with Randy luth. I mean,
he was one of the pioneers of making AR fifteenth popular.
DPMs panther arms. Start out by making parts and getting
into making full urs and tweaking him up, and then
of course he did it before we talk about your timing.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
He did a great job.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He sold a company to the Servers Group. He probably
don't know Serbus, but you do know Remington. That was
part of the whole Future Capitalists people who bought Reminton
and DPMs and Bushmaster and a whole bunch of other
companies and ren thement of the ground and just.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Really screwed a lot of things up.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
But he got out just in time, made good money
out of it, and now he's doing looth Ar, which
is a really cool company, and doing some other stuff.
You never know what Randy's going to be up to,
but his talking about the interest in retro in ars,
and what's happening is the people are building ars to
look like the old style sixteen's, if you will, Vietnam era.
(14:37):
And the thing is they'll say, Okay, this is a
like a nineteen seventy six build, or this is a
nineteen eighty four build and this is up because they
know what parts were being used then, and so now
you can buy all those parts and put them back
on your lower receiver and start building up your gun
and make it look like those I mean, clearly, it's not,
you know, a fill auto, it's not a select fire.
(14:57):
It's still a semiato. It works the same, but it
it looks cooler. And if you're into that. And I'm thinking,
as he's talking, going huh, And I was later coming
to ars. I started in eighty four, maybe a little
later NET, no later NET ninety four when they passed
(15:19):
the Clinton gun ban, the ninety four so called a
saw weapons ban, And that's when I started getting interested
in it. Because my attitude was pretty simple. I wasn't
into it and I didn't really care about him. But
the moment they said we're going to make it where
you can't buy him, I said, well, yes I can.
You can't tell me I can't buy this. So I
(15:40):
went out and bought a couple of them to start
off with before the band went into effect. Of course,
what happened was the so called Clinton gun band. They're
so called a saw weapon Ban of nineteen eighty four
ended up actually being a band on a few cosmetics.
They said, well, you can't have a flash of pressure on. Okay,
we take the flash of pressure off. It'll just be
a bear barrel and now it's legal. Or you can't
(16:01):
have this, or you can't have that. I want to
take those off. It was a silly cosmetic law about
silly cosmetics on guns. And somehow they said we have
banned these guns. They never did. They never cut down.
Not only did they let's just back up, not only
did they not cut down on the number of AR
fifteens that were sold, they vastly increased the number of
(16:27):
AR fifteens that were sold. It is the perfect law
of unintended consequences because frankly, a lot of people in
the gun world didn't know about ars, didn't care about rs.
They're using the bolt action rifles, and they're using their
Remitton semi automatic rifle. I mean yet, a Remington's semi
(16:47):
automatic rifle that shot a thirty out to six cartridge
much much, much more powerful than the two two three
in an AR, and people weren't paying attention. But as
soon as the gun banners got in there and Diane
Feinstein said, if I could have gotten the votes, so
I would have banned them all, mister and missus America
pick them all up.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Since they started doing that.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
People started paying attention to going, wait, what what is
the AAR fifteen?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
What is that thing? And started looking at it and going, Oh,
it's light. It's really lightweight, and it's pretty short, and
it's really ergonomically designed. And it shoots two two, three
or five five six cartridge roughly the same thing that
has basically no.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Recoil at all. Oh, this is actually fun to shoot.
I might like to get one of those.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And all of a.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Sudden, because because they tried to ban them, they caused
them to be wildly popular. Once again unintended consequences. Right, Hey,
let's go to UH line five bills with us in Idaho.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Bill, you're on gun Talk there.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Hey, Tom, I've listened to you for years. I'm in
Idaho now, but for years up in Alaska, and I
lived in the bush and hunted all over and I
have I'm an AR guy, I'm an old marine. I
was in Vietnam sixty nine to seventy, carried to standard
now sixteen that DPMs. I did my research and you
know the old scout carbing or field rifle that comes
(18:23):
with the bipodge built into the four in and everything.
DPMs Research came up along and a little bit better
than that to replace it in the field. I have
the seven six two by fifty one red dot bipodge
on it. Magpole magazines. I gotta tell you, Tom, that's
a beautiful weapon. Handles well, feeds well, no recoils, minimal,
(18:50):
very accurate. It's got flip up sites, magpole sites that
flip up. It's got a lot of Magpole on it,
which I do like. But I just listened to your
asked and he's got a winner there. That AR style
of Recon two is what I have DPMs Recon two.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
What is it that you like about it and what
do you do with it?
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Well? I bought it for two legged targets in the
future because I hung with my other rifles. I've got
my long range, my Model seventies and whatnot. I use
my AR fifteen for kyotes. But this EPM was purchased
for a single purpose. And I think you know what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Okay, I mean, curR, you're talking about it. That's my
personnelity if the no, if you're talking about it, if
like the stuff, it's the fan. You need something that
can reach out a little further. And I understand a
lot of people are buying them for that. And for
those who don't know, the seventy six two by fifty
one is the three away carters. So you're and let
me get back to you. This is basically it's an
(19:53):
AR ten platform, right correct? So where at Idaho are
you see?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
It's an AR fifteen design, but AR ten platform. And
aside from if I had to hunt with it, I would,
but I've got my long range three hundred win megan
to seventy short Magan and I know for any big game.
But I'm seventy four now and I've killed about everything
you can kill in Alaska. I'm kind of just going
(20:20):
to lay back and look at my trophies on the wall.
But this DPMs, as my study research and a lot
of magazines really surpassed the Scout carving, which is an
amazing rifle.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Also, what part of Iaho did you move to.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
I'm out in a little town called Tuna. It's outside
of Boise, about eighteen miles I'm from I'm from Alaska.
Speaker 9 (20:47):
I lived out of Lake Clark.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
I was a contractor in Anchorage, and a lady with
the phone in her face at forty five miles an
hour ran into me and my son's paint van and
I on my side and broke my neck and broke
a screw of the VA put in there. So I
was done building. So I headed down to Kenna, nice
little town.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Cuna is a nice place just south of Boise. And yeah,
in your part of the world, there's a guy named
Jim Comby Elite Rifle Works. He's down there, not very
far from you, near Cuna. You might drop in and
see Jim. He's got a nice little small shop and
really knows what he's doing. Works only on bolt action rifles,
that's a specialty, and he is really good. So I'm
(21:29):
guessing that's like five miles from you. So check out
Elite Rifle Works down there in Cuna area.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So there you go. Thank you for the call. I
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, the AR platform, it could be in AR ten,
it could be AR fifteen different sizes to take different
size cartridges. And now, of course I've got a lot
of people shooting ars in with six five Creedmores and
other calibers. That's again one of the things you can do,
swap out the arper. You're shooting different cartridges, different calibers.
It is ultimately adjustable and modifiable. Weird word, and maybe
(22:01):
that's one of the things we don't like about them
so much. And if you get into them, you're gonna
be like the rest of them. You're not gonna have one,
You're gonna have several. I'm not gonna ask you how
many you have, but I bet you have more than one. Seriously,
(22:22):
I am so easily amused. It's like I keep sending
pictures to Jim Schell during the show. Here, I'm taking
pictures from the studio as the fire fighter planes are
going by, and so I get videos. It's like an
air show going on. So we're having fun. I kind
of sort of. You don't mind having huge fires blowing
up all around you, I mean big forest fires. But
(22:44):
you know, so far, so good. They'll let us know
if we have to leave. Our number here is eight
six six Talk Gun and Talk Gun. It's Tom Talk Gun.
It's easy to remember it that way. I'm Tom Gresh,
I'm your host, and it's called Gun Talk. If you
want to follow me during the week, go for a
goal to x, Twitter, whatever you want to call it.
I am at gun Talk over there, and I post
(23:05):
a lot of stories links to news stories if you
want to stay informed of what's going on in the
court cases, that type of thing. We just had a
kind of a weird split decision in the Ninth Circuit,
which was kind of a win because we had a
bad panel. We knew it was terrible, terrible panel in
terms of gun rights, but they made a weird decision
(23:26):
about they call it sensitive places gun free zones.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And the weird part was they actually split it and.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Said, well, in Hawaii they can have more gun free
zones than you can have in California, because in California
that would be unconstitutional, but in Hawaii it's not unconstitutional.
Going you know, that doesn't make any sense, right, this
is a federal court. You're ruling on federal laws. You
know that doesn't make any sense at all. We'll see
(23:53):
it's but we won some, we lost some on that one.
As with all of this, it all gets appealed at
some point and goes up the ladder. We'll see where
that goes. Weird stuff going on there. Oh, by the way,
the Gun Rights Policy Conference is going to be held
in about three weeks in San Diego. It is free
for anybody to attend. If you go to s A
F dot orgus like Cierra Alpha Fox Trot, it actually
(24:16):
stands for Second Amendment Foundation. S AF dot orgon will
have the information on the Gun Rights Policy Conference and
where it is and when, and you can attend it
for free.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It doesn't caution anything. Gonna be some great speakers there.
I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I'll be hosting the awards banquet on Saturday. So look
forward to seeing you there if you can make it
there again. Our number here is eight sixty six Talk Gun.
That's the Casey line three, Medford, Oregon. Gonna build something,
Frankenstein Gun.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
What are you? What are you working on here?
Speaker 9 (24:48):
Like like all round catters, I want the I want
the only one in camp. I want to be sitting
around the fire with half a dozen of my buddies
and I pull a case out and hand it to
someby are like, what what the world is that? So
my brilliant idea. You know, metric calibers besides the seven
rem meg and the and the new six to five
creed more well seven rem meag back in the what
(25:08):
fifties or sixties or maybe forties or the super mash Burn.
I'm thinking three seventy eight or a five or five
gibs case next to eight millimeter. So we have the
eight reb mag which is a unicorn in and of itself,
and it's fantastic cartridge. But I'm thinking, what if instead
of the three thirty eight by three seventy eight we
did a three twenty three by three seventy eight eight
(25:33):
by three seven eight other words, or what if we
go a little bit bitter and we like five oh five gibs.
It's it's been done one time. And what I've read
on the on the interwebs was, oh, if I'm right,
it was a two twenty going thirty six. But that's that's.
Speaker 10 (25:53):
What I've read.
Speaker 9 (25:54):
I don't know that'd be anyway your thoughts on on
on the Only Unicorn in Camp and I I love
your show and never missed one.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, Casey, look, you understand you covered the whole thing
when you said you're a handloader, you're a wildcatder and
then you start off with what if, because that's how
we ended up with the thirty five Whalen and a
lot of the cartridges we have. Now somebody said, well,
what if we neck this up, or what if we
neck this down?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
What if we took that case? But we've been loaded
it for that bullet.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
You know, It's like I'm looking at it and going, Okay,
the selection of eight millimeter bullets out there is not
that great. If you were go to three thirty eight,
you would have a much much wider selection of bullets,
and really good bullets. Now that we got the three
thirty eight Lapoor, they're making some really nice long range
bullets with that. Would you consider instead of going to
(26:49):
eight milimeter going to three thirty eight?
Speaker 9 (26:53):
Well, there's a three thirty eight by three seventy which
I have. There's a thirty three thirty which I have.
I have a thirty three dozzler I love, and that's
I wouldn't say it's a standard action. It's not a
short action, but if it's a it's three three forty overall,
so success length I'm looking for. I'm looking. I'm looking
When I pull that case out of my out of
(27:15):
my vest pocket of the campfire and hand the guy
next to me, I want to just I want that.
What did you do?
Speaker 10 (27:22):
Look?
Speaker 9 (27:22):
And I think and everybody will spend the mono mold.
You can always make Monoi Monel metal bullets whatever side
you want.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know, you can turn them a length. Yeah, you
can make bullets whatever you want to be. Yeah, I
mean you're looking for the ultimate. Uh, I got the
only one in camp thing. I get that. So, I
mean here's the deal. My advice on that is absolutely,
go for it. There's no downside. You clearly know what
you're doing. Why not just do it? I mean it's
(27:52):
like perfect, Just get the thing and go. Look, I
got the only one in town.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I'm for it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Do this after you build a us A call back
and let us know how it worked out.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Okay, casey, Yeah, Second question, we do I do it
on a Brevet Mauser Bolt or a Rugger number one,
because that's that's I'm down to those two for the
five h five case.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well, you know the problem is, I mean you're talking
about two so very different things. Ruger number one, you're
going to go classic far quarts and singles, shot lever
action falling block style versus a big action bolt action.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You know what the correct answer is?
Speaker 9 (28:29):
Both you know what, when I build it, I'm going
to invite you to the campfire. I'll send you a case.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
That would be great, great call. Thank you, sir, I
appreciate that. That was so much fun. All right, Age
six six talk gonna be right back.
Speaker 11 (28:48):
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Speaker 12 (29:50):
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(30:12):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 13 (30:20):
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(30:45):
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Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know, we're all over the place with the questions
and comments and thoughts that we're doing here, and so
it really doesn't matter. If there's something on your mind.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Just call us. We'll talk about it. Eight six ' six.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Talk gun and look, if you're somebody that doesn't like guns,
or you're wondering why we do like guns. That's a conversation,
it's worth having. And you can certainly give me a
call about that again. Call me at Tom Talk Gun Jackson, Denver, Colorado.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
He called in, Hey, Jack, what's on your mind? Sir?
Speaker 10 (31:30):
Hey?
Speaker 14 (31:30):
Hey, So, yeah, unfortunately I kind of got a question
around school shooting scenarios.
Speaker 9 (31:35):
I'm sure really.
Speaker 14 (31:37):
New to the firearm community. I've got a kid that
just started kindergarten, so it's you know, always on the
frontal level of my mind of you know, what can happen.
So my question is, should you end up in a
situation and you're trying to assist, you know, apprehend an offender,
is there any tactful way or anything you can do
(31:59):
to not be stake and as the offenders so for
when the second responders show up that they're not despiring
any guy with a weapon. And I've got to kind
of a follow up related question, is it historically you
know of is it common where there is a citizen
sort of character that does apprehend an offender in these
(32:20):
kind of cases.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Okay, there are several things involved with your questions. Yes,
there have been several situations where regular citizens have intervened
and stopped mass shootings. But I can tell from your
question that we need to address something. You don't have
any training in this, because when you say apprehend, that
tells me you don't know what you're talking about. We're
(32:44):
not there to apprehend. We're there to shoot the SOB
dead as a hammer. We're not trying to arrest anybody.
We're not trying to do If it gives up before
we shoot him, that's fine, we'll lett him do that.
But in the situation like this, we're moving in to
shoot the SOB, nothing else.
Speaker 14 (33:01):
Yeah, yeah, fair enough, you are correct.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Okay, So what that tells me is that before you
even consider doing something like this, you need to go
get some training. And I'm not talking about how to
hit a target training. I'm talking about how to move
through a building with a gun and shoot multiple targets training.
This is high level stuff. If you don't know how
(33:25):
to do it, you can make a mess of it.
You could shoot the wrong person, you could shoot yourself
and almost certainly get yourself killed in the process, either
by the bad guy or by the cops. Directly to
your question, it is a real concern of I don't
know how best to identify yourself as a good guy.
The cops don't know that you're a good guy. They
can't see your halo. You know, the chances are, Look,
(33:51):
if you're in a situation like that and the cops
are coming, you do not do not want to be
standing there with a gun in your hand, because if
you are, you're going to get shot.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
You are going to get shot.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
If you're standing there with a gun in your hand,
either put it in a holster, or put it on
the ground and get away from it and get your
hands on the ground, hands in the air, or you
on the ground. But they when they come in, they
are looking for someone with a gun to shoot, and
if you're the person with a gun, you're going to
get shot. So there it is. I mean, I was
(34:25):
just like, Okay, I'm glad you're asking the questions, and
I'm going to encourage you strongly to find a place
that can teach you this kind of stuff of how
to how to get how to move, how to shoot,
how to move and shoot at the same time, how
to reload, how to move around corners, how to move
through doors, how to move down hallways, how to move upstairs,
(34:46):
how to move downstairs.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Each of those is its own.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Tactical situation that are specific techniques on going up the
stairs or going down the stairs. Where do you point
the gun? How do you where you look? How do
you move? How do you move around corners? How do
you go down the hallway? Do you know how to
look far and then look close? In those situations? It's
(35:11):
it's I'm just telling you, it's a lot. And trust
me when I tell you that if you're the good
guy with a gun and the cops come in, there's
a very good chance you're gun and get shot. I
have some ideas of things you could do, but I'm
not even going to throw them out there, because if
you don't have a fairly decent level of training, multiple multiple,
(35:33):
multiple days of this kind of training, I'm going to
encourage you just to not not get involved in that situation.
Just just my take. Okay, let's see, let's grab Patrick
online three out of Arkansas. Hey, Patrick, you're on gun Talk.
How canway help you today? Oh it's line four. I'm sorry,
it looks like Patrick's line four.
Speaker 10 (35:54):
Sir, I am go ahead, Patrick, and Love has got
a thirty two rim fire and he cannot find any
any cartages for it.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Oh yeah, no kidding. Does he have any AMMO for
it now at all?
Speaker 10 (36:19):
None? Who's rifle?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Ummm.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You know you could check online, just do a search
for thirty two rim fire ammunition and you might be
able to find a place.
Speaker 9 (36:36):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You could check on a place like gunbroker online, gunbroker
dot com. You may find somebody selling AMMO for that.
But off the top of my head, I don't know
exactly where to go for that. Uh oh, it looks
like I'm just I'm doing some searches now. It looks
like on guns America somebody has some for sale. There's
a few places on that. So yeah, if you do
(36:58):
some uh online, I'm guessing you're going to be able
to find some mammal for that.
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Thank you. Yeah, he's been wanting to find some and
it's been brought. It's been dropped down in the family,
you know, from generation to generation, right, and he's got it.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
That's pretty cool though, to have a gun that you
can pass along to different people in the family. I
appreciate that, and thank you for the call, sir. Yeah,
I just had a friend of mine have to go
this week. Family member died a couple months ago and
he had to go help out with a disposition of firearms.
Several things can happen when somebody dies in if there
(37:45):
are guns in the estate. Sometimes somebody will just sell
the guns and not know what they're worth, and they
can get taken on that deal. Sometimes a different family
member will come in and take them, knowing what they're worth,
and they just disappear with them. Sometimes somebody takes them
and doesn't know anything about them. If you're in a
(38:07):
situation where you don't know what they're worth, or if
you want to sell a bunch of guns like that
and you don't know where to go, man may sa
a suggestion to you. My friend Johnny Dourry, he does that.
That's what he does Dorry's Guns down in San Antonio,
but they do this all over the country.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Just go to.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Dorrysguns dot Com. Contact them that way. When my dad died,
that's exactly your I did. They bought a couple hundred
guns and I got a fair deal out of it.
They do very good, you know, trustworthy operation. I trust
them completely. So if you have one gun or hundreds
of guns. Dirrysguns dot Com is a really good place
(38:47):
to go for that. I just cannot recommend them highly enough.
They just do good work. Eight six six Talk Gun
or Tom Talkgun. Gets you in here, still got time,
We're open lines, give me a shout, all right back
(39:08):
with you. Usually at this point I give a call
and say, hey, call it in after the after show.
But about thirty seconds ago I just got the text.
It says it's a go Now we're going to be evacuated,
So we're not going to do the after show today. Unfortunately,
we're gonna have to pack up and do evacuate because
the fires are in our area. So I apologize to
everybody that we're not gonna be able to get that
(39:29):
after show in today. Just some days it just doesn't
work out that way. In events, that's what they do.
Let's see. I was talking about the three thirty eight
out six rifle that I recently bought. I was doing
some loading for it. This week, have been able to
get out to the range. It's been a little bit crazy.
We got evacuated for two days earlier this week. It
looks like we're going to be out again. I don't
(39:52):
know for how long. So my plan was to take
it to the range tomorrow and shoot it. So I
guess that's probably not gonna happen, because if we're out today,
we're going to be out overnight and we'll see what happens.
It's weird, it's just this living with uncertainty. But it's
keep a bag packed all the time we're ready to go,
And I would recommend that everybody think about having a
(40:12):
go bag with a few essentials in it. Think about
what would I want to have in my go bag?
You know, a little bit of cash, a few simple things,
you know, a couple of changes of underwear, that type
of thing, and then if you have time, you can
always grab a few important things. You say, but what
are the things I would want to have if I
came back and there was nothing here.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
That's kind of the case. Now.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I went around and took video of the interior of
the whole house, because if you come back and the
whole house is gone, you need pictures for insurance. Just
to kind of a thing everybody to be aware of.
Those of us who have lived in hurricane country or
have been through things like that, we understand and sometimes
do you evacuate for years and years and nothing happens.
(40:56):
Then one time you evacuate and then there's nothing left
to come back to. That's what happened to Ryan with
Hurricane Katrina. They left thinking they're gonna be back in
two or three days, and there was no house to
come back to. Just what happens. So, oh, by the way,
we were going to Unfortunately I can't have a mom
because it's not going to the after show. We're going
to have kJ Kevin Jarnigan on the show for the
(41:18):
after show because he got a huge twelve foot gator
this morning in the Louisiana Alligator season. I don't know
what he used to shoot it, but I want to
find out a little bit more about that. But in
looking it up, it looks like a twelve foot gator
out to be seven to eight hundred pounds and worth
several different boots, if you will, I feel like alligator boots.
So we'll get that story in a future show. Pick
(41:40):
catch up with kJ on that they've been shooting the
Billbox Show this week and that will be appearing on
Outdoor Channel where they build cool rifles and do some
interesting stuff. You can see all of our videos on
our YouTube channel. Let's look for gun Talk Media, or
you can go to gun talk dot tv on the
web where we have quite literally thousands of videos of
(42:03):
shooting different kinds of guns and giving you some information,
some training.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
As it were.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
With our First Person Offender show that's been on the
air for ten seasons or more. Now that's kind of
crazy how long that has been going on. We cover
a lot of that stuff that you think you know,
that you don't know, because it problem is you don't know,
you don't know it. It's like our caller who said,
you know, if I want to go in and apprehend
a shooter, a school shooting, we don't apprehend. No, no, no,
(42:30):
leave that to the police. They may apprehend. If you're
going in to stop somebody who's killing kids, you're going
in to shoot them. Get that in your head, Get
that in your mind, you're and look, here's the deal.
Once we start shooting people, there's none of this drop
the weapon, hands up, any of that foolishness. No, the
first down they should hear is the gunshot going off.
As far as I'm concerned, that's the way I am
going to approach that, because my goal is to get
(42:52):
you to stop shooting people immediately. All bets are off
at that point. I'm not trying to apprehend. I'm not
trying to get you to give up. I'm not trying
to you need that stuff. I mean, if you happen
to give up before I shoot you, fine, but I
am going to shoot you and not lest you kill kids.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
That's the deal.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
If you don't understand that, if you haven't really incorporated
that into your being, you need more training, or you
need some training, and then you need more training because
once you get it, then you want more because you
understand that you need it. Hey be safe out there, everybody.
I got to go pack a bag. It is time
for us to go for the Sheriff's deep. And you
start beating on the door and saying, get out of here.
It's evacuation time for me. Take care of yourself and
(43:34):
your family well. Check in next week.
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