Saving Lives: Mental Health and Guns | Gun Talk Nation - Gun Talk

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The same people you think you're helping by preventing them
having a firearm and being educated about it responsibly and
being empowered to understand what freedom of the second moment
means to them, you're hurting them.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Gun Talk Nation.
This Guntognation is brought to you by Stag Arms, Securit
Ruger Guns and Gear, Franklin Armory, Hodgden, Range Ready and

(00:42):
SDS Imports. All Right, welcome into Guntalgnation today on Guntognation,
mental health and guns. That's kind of an interesting subject
to be tackling. We're bringing back a guy who's been
on the show. Probably it's been a while, but Mike
Sedini with Walk to Talk America.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Welcome inm In Hey man, it's good to see you
and thank you for having me back. It has been
a while.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, it's been a while.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Were a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
And I think that if people listen to gun Talk Radio,
they may have been been familiar because we run some
PSAs for you guys there, and uh we have you know,
off and on for years. But Walk to Talk America
is a different animal together, so and I think that
there'll be some stuff we can dive in here that

(01:28):
is actually helpful for the for the listeners and viewers
of this because I mean, maybe just just kick it off,
just tell us if people aren't familiar, what do they
need to know?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, So, at our core, we're a suicide prevention organization,
that is that has grassroots in the firearms industry. Right
we're one of the first of its kind. You know,
obviously NSSF has tackled suicide prevention and still does, but
we actually kind of focus on the intersection of guns
and mental health, right, which it's just suicide at its core,

(02:01):
but we like to think that we provide resources for
firearms owners who might be in crisis or you don't
have to think about going into crisis in the future.
We provide resources without fear of consequence, right, without loss.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Of rights, things like that. So what we do.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
There's also a component to this where it's educating people
from outside of the gun industry or a gun world,
the to a community, the Second Amendment community about firearms owners.
So kind of goes both ways. But you know, we
have a lot of programs which I'm sure we'll get
to that. Literally, I think gun owners could be proud of, right,
because this is our first opportunity to be able to say, like, hey,

(02:42):
we have a spot at this table for once where
we're providing our own solutions as opposed to just saying
I don't know what the solution is Second Amendment probably
for my cold dead hands. Right, we always need to
have that fight. But at the same time, I think
we could move to the forefront and be leaders in
this space, providing mental health education, mental health resources, and

(03:04):
using our valuable space, right because we have the manufacturers,
we have the gun shops, and we also have the
firearms instructors, and plus we have the community, so we
have a lot to offer the world when it comes
to better mental health.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, and I think that some people when they hear
about this, they may kind of raise an eyebrow and go,
wait a minute, is this some kind of like anti
gun play. Is this some like you know secret you know,
Trojan horse thing. But I mean, you really have been
in the gun industry for decades. I mean you are

(03:39):
a gun guy. And I think that when people hear
about it, and they hear a little bit more and
they start understanding, like you kind of alluded to it
it's like, hey, let's actually get out in front of it.
And I think that can not only is that a
safety that's helpful for safety wise, for people for their

(03:59):
health wise, but I mean, perhaps a little bit self serving,
it's also a Second Amendment play for people who care
about that, because if you're losing this battle, it's something
that can be used against you. Am I making any
sense here? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (04:17):
You are, so.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
All negative outcomes of firearms are used against us, and
that's why we're so defensive. Culturally, we're super defensive, and
I think part of the issue is we've always been
attacked by outside sources. Right, even the mental health community
at times has attacked us.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
In a way or said like we don't care, we
don't do anything.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
So for me, the fact that we have that kind
of quick trigger when it comes to hearing guns and
mental health, I totally expect that, and it's gotten easier
over the last six years.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Believe me.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
When I first started this, there were a lot more
people that had not heard of me and were like,
what are you doing, like stop blaming the gun, or
just simply thought that it was mutually exclusive, like they
didn't go to and that used to be kind of
sort of a narrative that a few organizations had kind
of pitched to us in the past. But I think
we can change that, and that's where it starts culturally,

(05:09):
and they're the element of what you're talking about. I
call it like pr insurance, right, pr insurance, So like
when you show that you're getting ahead of it and
that you're taking care of it, Really what you're doing
is what the alcohol industry did with DUIs.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Think about it.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Nobody blames Johnny Walker when somebody gets behind the wheel
of a car and does something horrific, whether it's to
themselves or the family of four that's just driving down
the street. But they do that with us, And I
feel like part of that is because we've done very
little to try to get ahead of this. But in
defense to our community, it's hard to want to get

(05:47):
ahead of something when people are calling you baby killers,
or you stand on graves, or all you care about
is money. I mean, that's the quickest way you could
make someone not want to work with you or take
a lead on a subject.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
For sure. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know you're kind
of it's easy to give up very quickly and go
never mind. I can't talk to these people. They're not
gonna hear me out. And we always, I think, feel
like we have common sense and facts on our side
when it comes to the gun rights part. But Mike,
tell people kind of how did this come about? Because

(06:20):
I know you've told the story before, but I think
it's like helpful to go, how in the world did
this happen?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, the day before this happened, if you would have
told me that I would be doing this for a
living after you know, basically being in the firearms industry
for over twenty years, I would have told you that
you needed mental health help right like this. So it's
something that sort of fell into my lap. But basically,

(06:47):
long story short, my sales manager, Rafael de Valet, who
now runs Versus USA, we were out in actually Louisiana.
We were out in New Orleans. We're kind of towards
your neck.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Of the woods.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, randomly, we invited a stranger that we had met
at the bar to dinner who didn't know anything about firearms,
and she had asked, like, what happens during a mass shooting?
And I said, well, everybody blames the firearms industry, everybody
blames us. We blame mental health and nothing ever happens.
And she's like, that's really interesting, Like how do you
work with the mental health community and the stuff that
you can agree upon as opposed to like focusing on

(07:22):
the stuff you don't. And you know, obviously that that
was the spark that I needed in my head. You know,
I was like, I don't think we do. And Raphael
had said, hey, man, you should donate a dollar a
gun because I'm not. At the time, I owned egal Imports,
which is a very large firearms importer, and in my
thought process there, I was like, oh, you know, maybe
the firearms industry can help the mental health community with

(07:43):
all the money that they've been lacking over the years
because of cutbacks. So I kind of wanted a big
pharm them my way out of it. I was just like,
what if we raised money and supported the resources and
the outreach that you know they can provide. That crosses
over to everyone, right, not just gun owners. But I
learned very quickly that that was a silly way of thinking.

(08:05):
I had high hopes for that, but I had to
realize that the.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Mental health community can only be assistance to us.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
They really don't have the answers themselves, because if they
had the answers, they would have had those answers a
long time ago. But finding that information out was a
blessing in disguise because it forced me to turn around
and look at what we can do in the community
and what kind of programs we can develop. And I'm
happy to say that, honestly, there isn't a room that
I walk into, even in an anti gun room, and yes,

(08:33):
for your listeners, I will do that. There's no place
I will not go to talk about what the firearms
industry is doing to get ahead of these negative outcomes
and provide our solutions to them. And the bar is
set so low for us that it really gets people
to stop and listen right when they I mean, think
about some of the programs we have that some of

(08:53):
your listeners might be familiar with. We do free and
anonymous mental health screenings, right we have about twelve of them.
Companies like Ruger, Bursa, Arms Core, Cannon Safe, like high Point,
They're all putting our free and anonymous mental health screenings
in the boxes of their products for their consumers to
be able to check on their mental health at their

(09:15):
own leisure and their own privacy and not have to
worry about being punished for it. Things like that that
are so innovative to everybody, not just the gun community,
but everybody on the outside of the gun community that
are like, wow, that's a really good idea. We never
really thought about it. That's what helps us get ahead
of this. Right, we have cultural competence for mental health
clinicians to teach mental health clinicians about gun culture so

(09:39):
they understand us when we do risk going and talking
to them. That program in itself has been a blessing
because what it has done is has brought a bunch
of mental health clinicians forward that normally would hide from
admitting that they own guns, to say, yeah, we really
should lean into this, and why can't be culturally oppetent

(10:00):
in firearms be a thing, be a category that we
lead into. You know, think about the other programs we have.
We have a firearms instruction video right now. What we're
seeing is states are passing legislation that are requiring firearms
instructors to incorporate an hour long of better mental health

(10:20):
and suicide prevention into the curriculum.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Right and when the.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Firearms instructors are turning back to the States and they're saying,
what do you want? The States are acting like birds
that want to fly south but don't know why. They're like,
we want this, but we don't have a curriculum for you.
We don't know what you want to tackle.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
We just really needs you to teach it. We don't
know how to teach it right.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Right, So we created the very first competency like you know,
course for it that's an hour long. So many of
the instructors that are not comfortable like broaching the subject
can just hit play right. So these are the things
that we're doing. We're finding the needs and the blind spots,
and then we're improving on them better than.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
The mental health communities do. Like that, That's what I love.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
So, Mike, you guys have I mean, you've really gotten
in there for several years now with the mental health community.
What are some of the maybe misconceptions that I mean,
I'm kind of generalizing here, but misconcepts that they have
about gun owners or the gun culture.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think the biggest one is that we we don't
do anything to help prevent any of the negative outcomes
from firearms. I Mean, there's many times I've spoken at events,
and people are like, hey, have you guys ever thought
about putting like a cable lock or a trigger lock
and all the boxes of your guns. And I'm like, yeah,
that's an industry standard. We've been doing that for years. Right, So,

(11:43):
because we've had this like self imposed chasm that both
of us have kind of like put in the middle
of us and stood on either sides, like we haven't
even communicated about the stuff we've been doing for years,
and we're kind of blind. We have blind spots to
the stuff that they have to offer to us.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
So that's why collaboration is really good. Now, collaborating does
not mean coming off of your core values about the
Second Amendment at all. Right, So when I walk into
those rooms where I'm meeting with organizations that might support
red flag laws, I double down on the fact that
I think red flag laws get people killed, and they're
a detriment for people.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
To get help right burier to entry.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
So like, I don't ever come off of any of
those stances. And what I want to do is educate
them on those blind spots. Right, Because let me give
you an example. Last year, I spoke at the Aspen
Institute of Health. I was the very first in the
history of that festival, that week long festival, the very
first firearms industry representative. When I got off the plane,

(12:47):
literally like twelve people all pulled me aside.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
They were afraid for me.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
They were like, are you walking into the lions Den?

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Right right?

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, And it was really funny because at one point,
because you know, my whole thing is like I got this,
don't even sweat it, don't worry about it. I do
these all the time, and you know, the mindset that
they had was you don't know what you're walking into.
Some of these people get really triggered really easy when
talking about guns. Of course, it went exactly how I
thought it was going to go, where people were listening

(13:18):
to the information I was providing. But at one point
on the panel that I was on, two of the
people were super pro red flag law. And then it
came to me and I was like, hey, listen, I
live in a different world than these people do. Okay,
I'm sure anecdotally we can all point to things that
say like this works and saves lives. I said, in
my world, it's a barrier to entry and it gets

(13:39):
people killed because what happens is gun unders won't come
forward to go get help because they're afraid of the
red flag law in their state. So when they're at
stage one or two, they won't come forward. And then
we all know what happens when you don't address something
against stage one or two, it moves to three and
then four.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
And I said red flag law scare people from getting help.
Crowd does not even react. I see heads nodding.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
I'm there at the Assmen Institute for two more days,
walking around, just walking around the campus, going to all
the other functions that they have. I had so many
people say, hey, man, I saw you speak the other day.
I want to tell you something. I'm still not a
gun person. I still hate guns, but but you have
given me something to think about. I always thought you

(14:27):
people always wanted to arm everybody. No one ever made
me see that red flag laws could prevent someone from
getting help.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
So it's like we have to do we have to
educate each other on these issues because a lot of people,
especially on that side, I call it being gun ignorant, right,
Like they're gun ignorant. They don't understand what I don't
need When I speak in a room full of people
that maybe anti gun or gut ignorant. I don't need
you to be pro gun at the end of it.
I don't need you to be anti gun at the

(14:56):
end of it. I need you to be pro understanding.
And when we get there, I think we can get
stuff done and save lives.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, that's really the first step is yeah, exactly what
you're saying. You're not going to change their mind in
the first conversation. But if you present an idea or
a thought that is opposite of what they understood or
at least they thought to be true, and then they go,
wait a minute, if that could be true. All of
a sudden, the mind opens up and like, wait a minute,

(15:24):
I've had this whole misunderstanding of these these people, you people,
or or or whatever, and now they just at least go, well,
maybe I need to look into this further. It opens
up their minds, which is the start, Right, Mike, Let's
take a quick break. We'll be right back. Secureitgun storage
dot Com. We talk about secure it because they make

(15:45):
just really cool products, and we have a bunch of
them here. We have the lockers, we have some of
their agile safes, and when people come into gun Talk headquarters,
we often get that question of like, oh, what's these
They're all stacked up and it's like a cool wall
of story for your guns and your gear. But they
do a good job of providing a lot of different
options for storing your goods gunwalls, accessories, and you can

(16:10):
kind of customize the configuration inside really maximize the space
for what you want it to work for. So you
can learn more over at secure it gun storage dot com.
Ruger one of the popular ones, one of the kind
of cool, fun ones they're doing, is the Ruger LC charger.
It's chambered in five point seven by twenty eight low
recoiling cartridge, available in an array of options for target shooting,

(16:34):
small game, personal defense. It's kind of a large format
pistol and you kind of have to see it to
understand it. But it's a ten point three inch barrel,
so let that sink in for a second. Yes, it's
a threaded barrel. Yes, they have a C and C
mealed handguard that works with mlock full length pickrail on

(16:55):
top from optics. Just a fun, cool gun. I mean,
the whole thing only weighs sixty six ounces, So go
check it out over at Ruger dot com. Range Ready
is where we run our classes range Ready Studios dot com.
So go over there to check out the classes and
events that we have going on. We've got the Savage
Concealed Carry Experience. Oops, sold out. We've got the Concealed

(17:18):
the Crimson Trace Laser Handgun Experience. Oops. That's sold out too.
These things go fast. Another little little known thing about
range ready is we will provide you a pistol if
you need one for a class or even an ar
and HK is one of our partners on that VP series.
Pistols available for student use when you sign up, and

(17:39):
there's no charge for that. We don't rent you a
gun and there's enough charge. It's just available for your use.
So it's a pretty cool deal. Go check it out
range Ready Studios dot com. You know that Silence are
Central makes it easy to buy silencers, but they also
have their whole line of banished suppressors and the newest
one is the Banish speed k TI TI for Titanium,

(18:00):
extremely lightweight and compact. This is a really cool ultra
compact two two, three, five five six dedicated silencer weighs
only eight point six ounces, it's four inches long, and
it has controlled flow technology. We have used this on
the range. We've been impressed at how light it is,

(18:21):
doesn't change the weight and balance of the gun, and
also still very quiet the banish speed Ka TI from
Silencer Central. So, Mike, that's just one great example of
people bring up red flag laws, and I think that's
something that people listening to this, they're very likely to
have these conversations. That's one of those subjects that's going

(18:43):
to come up, and you can We're gonna steal Sodini's
line here of like red flag laws get people killed
because it prevents them from seeking help. Are there other
things that like kind of tools in the toolkit that
we could give the listeners to say, hey, here are
some items that when you're talking with people that may
come up because they go, oh, you're a gun guy,

(19:04):
and they're going to say what about this? What about that?
When it comes to suicides mental health?

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Right right, Obviously I've been doing it for six years
now and from the angle of Walk to Talk America,
so I feel like there's not there's nowhere that they
can pull me. There's no deep water they can take
me where I don't have an answer for anything, but
I mean some of the things that people have said
to me in the past, and I always, I always
find it really interesting and it's getting better as the

(19:32):
years go by. And I'll tell you why. I think
the outside world needed to see that we were.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Coming up with our own solutions. Right.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
I'm a big believer in don't come to me with
a problem unless you have a solution. I don't care
if it's a stupid solution. I just need you to
have a solution. I don't need to hire you or
pay you to point out problems. I mean, when I
own my company, that's how I ran it, right, So
it's the same kind of thing. The people outside of
the gun community aren't going to usually take the time

(20:02):
to come understand us. So we have to be on
point when we have these discussions. And what I want
the firearms industry to understand is know all the things
that we are doing as the gun community. Have that
in your arsenal when you're making these arguments.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
So I'll give you an example, like one of the
programs that we have that I absolutely love is called
Kids to Kings with Walk Talk America, Right, it's something
that I sponsored, something that means in the near and
dear to me. Because we all know that suicide is
the majority of gun violence, right, it's all lumped together

(20:41):
under one term. But we do know that inner city homicide,
especially with the youth of the inner city, is also
a problem. Right, And most of the time people are
going to say, well, what do you guys doing to
address that? Well, we have a program called Kids to
Kings where we go into underprivileged, underserved neighborhoods and we

(21:01):
give the youth an opportunity to experience firearms in a
healthy manner. And it's not just shooting, it's not just
firearms education, it's life education, right, So we teach them
about mental health, we teach them about PTSD, complex trauma,
life skills, money management.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
This is a pilot program that we started in Atlanta,
which you can go online and find information about. But
it absolutely empowers people that normally wouldn't have the opportunity
to learn about firearms in a healthy manner. Most of
these kids are learning about firearms from say like music
videos or music or Hollywood, right, and or not the

(21:43):
necessarily the greatest role model on the planet, right, We're
not here to judge anybody. But even if you carry
a gun illegally, you have the right to learn how
to be responsible with it and you can be responsible
with it, right, And that's what we care about. So
it's just those things. Is like when people have these
gotcha moments. I love having these answers forms. So it

(22:05):
shows that the community is on top of it. And
actually what we're doing is better than what you are doing,
which is preventing and keeping people trapped into mind frame
that they can't own a gun or they shouldn't own
a gun because of where they come from, you know,
which is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point of Certain cultures are
being told just don't own a guns. The guns are
the problem for our community, for our whatever. And it's
like no, I mean, you can absolutely own a gun
to protect yourself and you may find out that it's
a great hobby, but being taught the right way. Mike,
how much do you think you being accepted at least

(22:45):
to these events and mental health events? How much do
you think it helps that you're not running a program
that is run by an SSF or the NRA or
something like that. This is this is an organization that
you created, and I mean you kind of left your
business to go do this. I mean, does that help

(23:07):
with them welcoming you in and at least hearing you out.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
I think that's a great question, man. No one's ever
really asked me that.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
I believe it does in a couple of ways.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
And I don't want to say every organized like NSSF
to me, if I full blown partnered with NSSF tomorrow,
I don't know if that would hurt me at all,
just because NSSF has made strides in basically other things
like suicide prevention and responsible gun ownership, like they've leaned
into a lot of that now NSSF doesn't do it
full time. Nss has a lot on their plate, right

(23:43):
like Walk Talk America doesn't have to worry about throwing
shot show things like that, and legislative work, right like
we advise on things, but we don't we're not in
the weeds of that.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
But take, for example, an organization like NRA.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
NRA would absolutely be det mental to the work that
I've done and getting the circles that I'm able to
walk in simply because they've been villainized. I'm not here
to judge either way, but you know, they do have
a little bit of a PR problem. So I think
in that sense it does help that I stand alone
even though my core belief system is exactly like NRAs.

(24:20):
I mean, I'm not going to sit there and tell
doctors to stay in their lane when they're coming, you know,
and they're saying, like, you know, firearms can be deadly.
I don't think that's a great PR move. Like that's
how I handle things a little bit differently than they do,
but at the same time, like we still have the
same core belief system. But I think the more organizations
that come forward, you know, you take for example, your
Hold My Guns or your Liberal Gun Club or Kids

(24:43):
Safe Out of Oregon, right, all these great positive organizations
that do great work and look for root cause mitigation,
the more we can highlight them and all stand together
with like maybe a common message, I think the better.
But dude, I'm known as what the unngung gun guy.
I remember the first time I was on your ADS
radio show and he was like, what's up with the
un gun gun guy thing? And I said, well, it's

(25:03):
not a nickname I gave myself. It's a nickname that
everybody gives to me because they don't think I act
like the classic gun guide. I know you're smiling because
you know, do not put me out there in a
blind in the middle of Louisiana.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
I don't know what I'm doing. I grew up a
city guy, so.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
I think I think that helps me kind of understand
where people are coming from that don't see things.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
The way me and you do.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, and you've advantage absolutely. And you've mentioned we've talked
about PR a few times on this episode so far,
and one of we had an old school PR guy,
kind of family friend, and he had his old explanation
definition of PR was doing good and getting credit for it.

(25:48):
And I think that's what you kind of keep coming
back to, is like, look, there's a lot of stuff
that the gun community is already doing, and maybe that's
the pro tip for listeners is get yourself familiar with
what we are already doing to help out. I mean,
an SSF has a lot of good programs, don't lie
for the other guy, Project child Safe, you know, free gunlocks,

(26:11):
and then you know you guys specifically dealing with mental health.
Just getting familiar with all these things. I wasn't familiar
with the one you were just telling us about the
kids to kings. That's pretty interesting. And I think we're
getting more people in a variety of places who are

(26:34):
willing to help us. I mean you talk about Okay,
this is actually maybe more of like an inner city thing. Well,
they're actually groups, you know, black gun owners groups and
all kinds of stuff that are maybe didn't exist that
much ten twenty years ago that we can all partner together,
which is awesome.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, the second is really for everyone. And then once
people realize that, I think they'll understand. You know, It's
it's funny because you look at some of the people
that want to prevent people from owning firearms, and that's
a blind spot, right, Like you talk about like what
are some of the blind spots that the outside world has, Oh,
they shouldn't have access to guns or there should be

(27:14):
more restriction, And it's like, well, you realize the same
people you think you're helping.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
By preventing them having.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
A firearm and being educated about it responsibly and being
empowered to understand what freedom in the second moment means
to them, you're hurting them, right, You're hurting the same
people that you think you're helping.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
So it's just like.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
The way I look at it is it's all when
we talk about this thing is like PR. There is
a part of it to me that it's it's like
jiu jitsu, right, It's got to be fluid and you
got to keep moving and you got to keep you know,
being on your toes and being better than the next person.
And I think we can get there. I honestly don't
care if the firearms industry does anything I asked them

(27:59):
to do. You for a PR, I'll get you to
get there. It's just the right thing to do, right,
you know what I mean, Like, it's the right thing
to do. Well.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's a good point. This isn't This isn't a PR move.
This is a helping people mental health, you know, suicide prevention,
and it really is helping people. And therefore, yeah, there'll
be good PR that comes out of it. But that's
not the motivation of this, right.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
No, it's definitely not the motivation of it.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
More. It's way more about helping people and empowering a
culture that I mean, I'm preaching to acquire with you,
but our culture. Some of the greatest people on the planet, right,
we're protectors. We care about family, we care about values.
We have had a blind spot when it comes to
suicide prevention. And it's crazy because we never had that

(28:49):
blind spot when it came to like first responders and
you know, active duty military and combat vets. We have
always been really cognizant of you know, they need to
be cognitive their mental health. But you know, the truth
of the matter is the statistics. Right we're at like,
I'm in Vegas right now. Down the street is mandal

(29:09):
A Bay. The worst mass shooting that ever happened in
the history of the United States happened right over there
at that hotel. There's fifty nine people that died that day.
We are now clocking in at seventy four people a
day dying.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
By suicide by firearm.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
So, and I don't say that number in any malicious
way towards our industry.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
I use it.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
I look at that number and I'm like, all of
those negative outcome numbers, that's the reason for us to
lean into what Walk to Talk America is doing.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Even more.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
That gives me a case to when people throw that
number at me, I'm like, yeah, that's why you need
to understand what we're doing why it's so important that
the firearms industry be leaders in this space. But in
order for us to be leaders in this space, we
have to do it. And you can't make us a
villain anymore, right, Like, you want our valuable space, you
want our valuable people, you want a valuable influencers. You

(30:00):
cannot make us a villain anymore in the better mental
health fight and the fight to reduce the numbers of
suicide by firearm. You know, to me, it's like I said,
it's the right thing to do, and it's about.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
A cultural shift.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
When I mean cultural shift, it's like getting us out
of the mind frame that we can't talk about suicide
or have access to better mental health just because we're
gun owners. Like I think that's what we think, Like, hey,
we can't go talk to people, we can't do that.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Well, we need to.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Start demanding it, and we do that by building our
own programs and doing this ourselves.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
And then what you'll see is, you know, over.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
The next five years, because it's gotten better for me.
You know, six years ago, when I sat up in
a in front of a crowd of gun people, I
was really nervous and I had to get to the
point really quick. Now people are like, oh, walk talk America,
or you know, you're on our side, you're doing the
things for us.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
But I want every firearm.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Owner in the future to literally, when you buy a gun,
you think about safety and it gets beaten into your head,
especially when you take your.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
First CCP class.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Right, you get training, right, what is the other things
you learn when you go to get your CCW You always,
almost nine times out of ten, there's a lawyer in
there explaining to you that you can't just shoot somebody
and get away with it. Even if you're one hundred
percent in the right, your life is going to be
a living hell. But now, this third component that I

(31:26):
want all gun owners to have is this better mental
health plan and suicide prevention plan for the future, right,
And that's part of being prepared. I don't want to
catch people and gun owners in particular, when they're in crisis.
I want us to be so in tune with mental
health that we're thinking about it while we're happy. I

(31:46):
want them to think about it. When we bought the gun,
we bought the ruger, we took it home. We were
so excited, our wife, our husband who might be a
little apprehensive. Right, you're like, no, this is good, right
that everything that this box represents freedom, home protection, protection
for community and now better mental health and insuse hype

(32:07):
prevention resources like the gun could stand for everything, Like
I truly believe that.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well, And if you get out in front of it, right,
like you said, you're having those conversations before someone's in crisis.
It's harder to think about Like I have kids, right,
and when a kid kids have like they lose their
they lose it. Sometimes they get upset about stuff. If
you have an eight year old and they're just crying

(32:33):
uncontrollably about something that as a grown up, you may go,
this is stupid. Why are you crying like this? Why
are you losing your shit over this? But that's not
the time that you're gonna be able to reason with them.
You can't just be like what, what's the big deal?
But ahead of time, you can kind of like, hey,
this thing, that's the time where someone would listen to

(32:53):
that type of message, and then when if they do
have something that maybe triggers an issue right now, they
can go hmm, okay, I've already given this some thought.
It's not the first time they're thinking of it.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, Like, think about this, Like, I have a plan
for almost everything in my house right now, and I
have a gun stage everywhere.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
I have to have them locked because I have.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Daughters, right and I just it's not even that I
don't trust my daughters. I don't trust their friends, don't
you know what I mean. I don't want people break
into my house. So I practice like retrieving my firearm
like just as hard as I do using my firearm
in many cases. But there's not a spot in my
house where I'm stuck. But that's about planning, that's about
being prepared. I've also had plenty of discussions with my

(33:39):
wife about Hey, if something were to happen to me,
or let's just say I start showing early signs of dementia,
I want us to have a plan that kicks into place, right,
Like if you're my neighbor, Ryan, and I trust you,
and you're a dear friend of mine, we've known each
other for years. I want to be able to, as
a gun owner to another gun owner say hey, man,
like I want to give you this power, Like if

(34:01):
you feel that I'm slipping, I want I want to
give you some sort of control in helping me recover, right,
And that's maybe making a plan with your neighbor to say, hey, look,
if I ever need to get the guns out of
the house, or you feel like you see me in
a bad way and say, hey man, I'm more comfortable
holding on the guns tonight, let's get you some help.
I want this to have that plan way before I

(34:23):
actually hit that point. And I think that as gun people,
as the community, we can definitely do that. We can
start having these conversations and stop hiding in the shadows
and demystify the counseling process and find all the counselors
that are are pro understanding and and and really understand
the laws and everything else. So I'm just like I said,

(34:44):
I see hope for us moving into this next stage
of responsible gun ownership, and I think that's adding the
suicide prevention and better mental health. But like I said,
this isn't about intervention. This is about prevention. So let's
like get upstream to prevent the predictable, right, Like, that's
what we want to do.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
So, I mean, we've we have a bunch of people
listening to this right now. Who if there's somebody who
is maybe having a little bit of issue, or maybe
even more likely they have a buddy who they're like,
you know, you kind of tend to go. Man, he's
kind of acting weird, and a lot of people shrug
it off, right, They're like, ah, you know, he's just

(35:24):
going through some stuff right now, or he just he
just you know, he did a few tours and he
was affected by that or whatever. It is like first steps,
I mean, you're you're in this world. I mean, what
are the first steps for them to help themselves or others?

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Well?

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Without sounding a little self serving, right, like the first
step I would like, let's let's let's put it in
a perspective of it. It's you and me, right, and
I think you're not in a good way, and I
think you've been acting a little bit different. I mean,
the first thing I probably do to you is had
come to talk to you and let you know it's
okay to talk to me about it, right, Like, there's
no restriction and there's enough. I'm not calling the government

(36:02):
using the bat phone to come get your guns taken,
but you know, if I'm honest about it, and I'm like, look, Ryan,
you know as gun owners, it's like super important that
we are on top of our game mentally, and hopefully
I can start that conversation with you. But one of
the things I might recommend is taking one of our
free and anonymous mental health screens. It's say, hey, Ryan,

(36:22):
like I feel like you're depressed or you know, maybe
you say to me, yeah, I've been having a lot
of anxiety lately. It's like, let's go on there and
take it, or you take it and tell me what
you think, and I need you to answer it honestly
and then start a plan from there, because if we
can see where you're at, right, if you're not going
to admit it, but if we can see where you're at,
then then we can formulate the next steps, right and

(36:44):
walk Talk America is here for that for people like
That's that's what we want for gun owners. We want
gun owners to call us and say, hey, I'm worried
about a friend or I'm worried about myself. If you
don't already navigate yourself through it, right, we want to
make it as easy as possible for people to do
it themselves at their leisure, in their own privacy. See,
but you know, for me, it's it's let's figure out

(37:04):
what level of crisis you might be entering where you're at,
and then find the plan from there. Obviously, if you
are suicidal or you know, you're on the verge of snapping,
and it's pretty obvious, I think you need immediate attention,
and that's that's calling like the suicide prevention hotline number,

(37:25):
or you know, getting you to a hospital.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
But like I said, let's not even catch you there,
Let's catch you way before that. But these are the
things I think that we need to plan for and
talk and discuss.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Is the health screening something that would it be able
to help if you had either yourself or a friend
or a family member who's saying, I'm fine, but you're
going I don't feel like you're fine. Is that something
that it could kind of help identify?

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Oh? Absolutely, one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
I've actually, you know, everything is anecdotically because we don't
track anything, and that's one of the reasons why we
don't get grant money right like like on the only.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Stories shared with us are those from people who.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Want to share the story with us or whatever their
story is, and we don't ever take that information and
try to use it as testimonials. But we've had many
people actually say they thought they were fine and then
someone talked them into taking it, and then they answered
it and maybe it wasn't exactly what they thought it was.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
And like I said, I don't think you even need
to be feeling bad to take it.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
I took them all the time just to see where
my baseline is, right, like I love it and and
and you know, for the listeners at home, I did
not believe in them when I first saw it.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
You know, I like to share this story because it's cute.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
You know, when I was looking for how Walk to
Talk America could launch something for gun owners. My partner,
mental Health America, who completely believes in the right for
people that suffer from mental illness to still have their
Second Amendment right. They not believe that you should be
denied your Second Amendment right just because you battle a
mental illness right. That's one of the reasons why I

(39:06):
knew I had to work with them, because I had
never seen anybody admit that from that side. But I
remember I was looking at their their free anonymous mental
health screening engine, which is powered by Mental Health America,
and the first thing that I needed to do, and
I looked at it was Okay, do they ask you
anything about guns?

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Right?

Speaker 1 (39:25):
So I'm taking all these these screenings looking for like
a gun question, and they don't, right. And that's what
I love about it, because the gun is not the issue.
The gun is a tool, right, It's of this neighborhood
up here that needs help. But so when I first
took the first screening, I answered it completely like I

(39:46):
was in crisis. Like I answered everything to the most
negative way because I wanted to see what would happen, right,
And then I answered it honestly.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
But I was like, okay, this maybe this is a
cool time. I'm coming around to it. I'm coming around
to this tool. It really is kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
My daughter walks into the room and she literally goes, hey, Dad,
I think I suffer from anxiety. Now keep in mind,
my daughter is eleven years old at this time. I
grew up in a family where if I walked into
the room and I was like, I think I suffered
from anxiety, they would have said, I will give you
something to have anxiety about, right, Yes, But with me,

(40:26):
I'm working with Mental Health America. So this is an
opportunity for me to tell my daughter, hey, listen, go
take an anxiety screening on the website that from the
people that your dad's working with, you know. And I said, answer,
and honestly, don't worry about lying. So she goes, takes
takes it for anxiety. Two days later, comes down in
my office like, Dad, I took the thingy. What are

(40:47):
you talking about? I took thingy, the thingy the mental
health screening.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
I was like, oh, what did it say? She smiled
and she goes, I only have mild anxiety. And I
was like ooh.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
I was like that you feel good, right, And she's
like yeah. And I said, it showed you what to
do for it, right, And she's like yeah. And on
her way out the door, she turns and she goes,
I'm actually going to give this to a couple friends
of mine because I think they could use it.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Boom. That was the first idea.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
I said, what if I put on these bands and
I start passing them out of gun shows to encourage
gun owners to think about or talk about, you know,
their mental health.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
And it was The reaction was great. But see, I
think a.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Screening is more important than most people think it is
because it gives you a time to reflect and reframe
things and just to see if you answer it honestly and.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Isn't that interesting for her? Like some people might go,
oh no, it said I had mild anxiety, but it
actually gave her some solace to go, Okay, yeah, I'm
feeling something, but it's not that bad. And also here
are the tools to kind of deal with it.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Right, It's like everybody needs hope. Gun owners need hope
just in general. Right, Like we sometimes we feel like
we're so we're constantly on the defensive fighting and we
can't do anything because like we're worried about losing this
right that's so valuable to us, and some of the
stuff we just need a little hope, right.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
I sent you something earlier today that that made me
so proud.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
I text you earlier for the show to make sure
we were still on, But I sent you a post
that someone I was at the Goals conference in Knoxville,
and I was stopped by this wonderful lady who just
literally was like, oh my god, Mike Sandeini, which always
like I'm still not used to that part because most
people are like, oh my god, Mike Cite no like

(42:32):
get away no, but uh, you know she she was
just like, I'm a huge fan of Walk Talk America
and thank you and da da dah.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
And I didn't know to the extent.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
You know, I kind of wish I would have talked
to her longer because I kind of just like, oh,
thank you, I'm glad you support us anything I could
do for you. Took a picture with But she wrote
the most beautiful like testimonial for walk Talk America. She's like,
this organization gave me hope that I could talk about
these things and still believe in my core you know,

(43:02):
value system when it comes to the Second Amendment, community
and the Second Amendment in general. Right, Like those are
the things that I absolutely love that keep me going
because I'm like, all right, she gets it same way
I did. It's like gun owners need something that we
could just be on the we can get offensive with, right,
Like we can go forward and just be like, sit down,

(43:23):
let me show you what we're doing. It's gonna blow
your mind.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Well it's proactive, right, I mean it's it's it's offensive
and it's proactive. It's like, hey, let's actually I mean
not to get like real political, but it's kind of
like the school shooting thing of like, you know, do
we want to feel good? Do we want to feel
safe or be safe?

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Right?

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Do we want to actually do things that will help
or do we want to just put things in place
that are they'll make everybody feel good, but it doesn't
actually fix or help the problem. Franklin Armory binary triggers
just got an upgrade, the new ar Elite trigger. Of course,
the binary firing system is a three position trigger. You
can safe, you can fire it semiauto, but in the

(44:04):
third position fires one round on poll and one round
on release. Now, the new ar Elite trigger comes with
premium features including interchangeable trigger bows so you can choose
between a curve trigger or a straight flat face trigger.
Also easy to install, straight smooth trigger pull four and

(44:26):
a half pounds plus or minus a half pound positive reset.
So go check it out. Franklin Armory dot com. Military
Armament Corporation MAC. They make a lot of different kind
of reproduction guns. The one that's really hot right now
is the macfive pistol. Macfive pistol as in the MP five. Yeah,

(44:48):
the MP five from a different gun company. But this
is actually made on a lot of the same tooling.
You'll have to look it up. Arguably one of the
most iconic firearms of the modern era, and they've done
a really nice job with this. I mean it's roller
delayed blowback action. It comes with two thirty round magazines,

(45:09):
the cleaning kit, and a lot of true and accurate
features like a tri lug, flash hider, trigger lock, all
that stuff. So go check them out mil armamentcorp dot
Com for the macfive pistol. Tune in to watch the
new season of Guns and Gear on air now on

(45:29):
Outdoor Channel and Sportsman Channel, or you can find it online.
Guns and Gear brings viewers the newest innovations throughout the
firearms industry, new guns, new gear, optics, AMMO, all that stuff.
Go check it out Outdoor Channel, Sportsman Channel, and of
course online. Aero Precision known for helping you do gun builds,
especially AR fifteen's, and they're still knocking out their monthly

(45:53):
limited edition builder sets is going to stand out at
the range among your family and friends when you're when
you're shooting, you've got to go check out their builder sets.
And even if you miss out on this one, the
next one's going to be really cool because every single
month I'm like, oh wow, that's really cool too. You
can learn more over at er Precision USA dot com.

(46:14):
I'm gonna go backwards for a sec. The number that
you said of firearm by suicide is how many per day?

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Seventy four And people are like, where'd you get your
numbers from the FBI and the CDC, So they're estimating.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
I mean, I often say that I find that people
worry about the wrong things, you know. They they worry
about night time. They're scared of night right, like okay,
But it's like bad things happen during the day. There's
home breakings during the day. They worry about this and
this and this and this, and then of course the
news will tell you this thing was really bad because

(46:50):
it was a mass shooting or whatever, which is bad certainly.
But the way I've heard it says, this is the
equivalent of that every single day.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
We have an October one more than an October one
shooting every single day. If you if you took those
people and you added them together like they do with COVID,
and you ran it up on a screen with their names.
The problem is that doesn't sell ad space the media.
It's just not sexy. And I think also it makes

(47:21):
people look inside themselves and say, like, uh, oh, the
biggest enemy might be in here, right right, Like maybe
it's not the guy at the school or the you know,
the shopping mall or something like that, Like maybe it's
up here. And I don't want to face that because
at least the enemy out there is like something I
could prepare for. But like, no one wants to to
look at themselves and say I might be damaged or

(47:42):
I might need some help, right, especially gun owners, because
like we're protectors by nature, right, So it's just but yeah,
we don't.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Focus on a number. And that's what I'm here to do,
like honestly.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Like, so every time I get invited to speak at events,
and everybody knows that knows me that I get, I
get into some events that your listeners would be like
what what what?

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Like I've spoken at Mom's Demand Action events because I
realized that the Mom's Demand people didn't realize who I am,
and they thought.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
I was just like them.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
So when I show up wearing a red shirt, no.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
But like here's the great part, and I want to
tell a quick story if we have some time, of course.
But okay, So.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Anytime I get an opportunity to speak at event, I
bring the focus back to suicide prevention. And the reason
why I do that is because it's actually something that
the firearms industry could could help reduce. I'm not saying
reduce suicide right like, suicide will be here forever. Suicide
by firearm will be here forever, but we can work
on getting these numbers down. Why do I care about

(48:48):
firearms because I'm from the firearms industry. To be honest
with you, if I was from the rope industry, maybe
I'd do the same thing with the same type of passion.
But I care about firearms owners. I care about our industry.
I care about everything. But anyway, so I get asked
to speak at these events like the Mom's a Man
Action event in San Jose State, which a lot of
people raise a lot of eyebrows because they're like, why
are you doing that? And I was like, because if

(49:09):
I don't interrupt them and change the narrative for the crowd,
because the crowd is an anti gun, the crowd's gun.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Neutral, are gun ignorant.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Most of these people just hear like gun violence, and
they're like, I don't like gun violence, but.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Who does like gun vir Yeah, we're all on the
same page about that.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
It's like a sign that says I don't want to
see puppies slaughtered by samurai.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Swords, right, Like, is there anybody in the world that
wants to see that? Like it?

Speaker 1 (49:34):
That's such a silly term, and it just upsets me
that we let the anti gun side like monopolize.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
That term gun violence. Right, So what I like to
do is say, what does this sign mean? What does
this this mean?

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Well, it means suicide prevention because two thirds of all
firearm deaths are suicide. So like we really need to
focus there. And I have this Venn diagram when I
speak that shows like mass shootings is this like little
circle and there's like, you know, a total gun deaths
and then there's suicide.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
So it shows you.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
It puts it in perspective, right, like how tiny the
number is, which we never are going to be little
because it's just part wrenching, like when you think of children,
dropping your children off and then never seeing them again
because somebody did something horrific.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
But so I speak at.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
These events and I totally changed the narrative. And usually
what happens is when I come off the stage, I
get all these people that are like, want to talk
to me, and they're thinking I'm getting them to think
and think outside of a way that they never thought before.
But at this particular event that I spoke at, I
remember the lady from Moms. The man was passing out.

(50:39):
They were passing out while I was talking. They were
passing out little pamphlets that had QR codes all over them.
And so when I came off stage, someone handed me
a pamphlet and I was staring at it, and then
the Mom's the man action lady went after me and
she got up on stage and she goes, who here
wants to end gun violence? Once again? That's like saying,

(51:00):
who here doesn't want kittens throwing into.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
A lake with her? You know what I mean? Nobody
wants that.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
The crowd erupts and everybody's like me, and she's like, okay,
take out your phone. She's like, scan QR code number one.
I'll give you a second to fill out all your information.
Do that right now if you want to stop gun violence.
So they're all filling it out now, I just start
to realize what is happening. They just got a bunch

(51:27):
of kids under the gun violence you know, the guide's
a gun violence like to think that they could end
gun violence by filling out some information from some QR codes.
It's a really lazy way out of looking into this situation.
But do you really blame young kids in college. No,
because they think they're doing something great and they think

(51:51):
they're helping. So she's like, hit submit, boom, hit some miss.
You just message Congressman so and so demanding stricter gun laws. Right,
And I'm looking at this going my side. My people
are playing checkers and these people are playing chess, Like
we could do that, We could do that exact same thing,

(52:13):
but we're not doing that. And part of the problem
is is we're not even showing up to figure out
that they're doing that. Yeah, like that's not something that
even crosses our minds, Like we don't want to trick
people into fighting for gun rights, right right, But like
that's that's what they're doing and that's how they're playing.
So anyone who's listening to this at home and they're like,
why does Mike Sidini like to go to places that

(52:35):
he's not welcome and get.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
Out of the echo chamber.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
That story, right there should be enough to be like,
we need Mike Cidini out there outside of the echo chamber.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
He's no longer allowed to talk to Ryan. He needs
to go out and be in.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
The you know well, And I encourage everybody, Yeah, I
mean I encourage everybody listening to this, And I've said
it numerous times, like, look, you're five hundred Facebook friends,
probably ninety percent of them agree with you on stuff,
So you guys can get each other riled up and say, yeah,
that's right. Yeah, but like challenge yourself and maybe you're
not Mike Sidini going to San Jose State and you know,

(53:10):
but maybe it's just having conversations with people at work
or people at your gym or wherever. Of like challenge
yourself a little bit to go and it doesn't You
don't have to be obnoxious, you don't, you know, but
just arm yourself with a couple pieces of knowledge. Go
to walk Totalkamerica dot org, Go to NSSF, go to

(53:31):
maybe it's the Second Amendment Foundation. Maybe just and I
think it's probably Mike a good idea. If someone's listening
to this, go Yeah, this will be a fun little game.
I'll challenge myself to go have a couple of conversations
with a couple of people, maybe even know who those
people are already that you're You're like, I'm gonna just
try to steer them one degree off course of what

(53:53):
they think their course is. Right, you could tailor the
message to them. Maybe you think, oh, this as a
woman who's probably concerned about her safety. She thinks she
doesn't like guns, but she like she's gone ignorant. Or
perhaps it's somebody who has a son in the military,
Like I don't know what the angle might be, but

(54:13):
you maybe tailor it to them. That was another thing
you kind of mentioned, and I'll just bring it back
to that is generally the gun culture, gun community. High
percentage of active military or former active military have either
yourself or family members or whatever. I mean, that's a

(54:34):
category that I mean everybody should know by now. I mean,
suicide is a huge issue, huge issue and something we
should be tackling.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yeah, and it's you know, I encourage people to go
out have those uncomfortable conversations and you're gonna fall flat sometimes, right,
Like people are going to frustrate you and back you
in the corner.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
But the more you do, it's like batting practice. Right.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
I'll give you an example of like kind of a
way that I made a table of people at the
Goals conference last week think about the way they approaching.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
So I was like, ask you were playing a little game.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
I was just like, ask me a question that you
get from an anti gunner or somebody that's angry at
firearms because they don't want to see people die.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
And that's really what it is.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
And anytime you have these conversations, I always say preference
it by telling people you're not really angry.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
At guns, you just don't want to see people die.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Right, And a lot of times it makes it gives
people an out right because then they're like, Okay, this
person kind of is meeting me where I'm at and
they're seeing my frustration. Because you could also follow that
up with you never have the same energy when someone
kills someone with a car, right, so you.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Don't blame the car. You get really upset about the
person dying.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
And it's the same thing I feel when I read
somebody dying by gunfire, Like I just I hate it.
But it's funny because the table said, what do you
say to a person who who says, well, I know
how I am, and I know my temper, and if
there was a gun around when I get upset, that
wouldn't be a good thing. So I just can't be
around guns, right, And I was like, well, I wouldn't

(56:06):
say anything. I would ask them a question, what are
they doing proactively to fix their anger management issues? Because
if you feel like that as a human, I don't
want you around knives or cars as well.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Yeah, and it's also a miserable existence, so why just
keep existing that way? Maybe try to figure out a
way to help yourself exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
And I say, after I ask that question, I just
shut up because I want to hear their answer.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
So it's just like once again, it's like that jiu jitsu.
It's like, get people to think about the things they're saying, right,
and let them do more talking than you do more listening.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
So if someone says to me, you know, only cops
should have firearms, and I'm like, okay, you believe that
cops sometimes go overboard, don't you? Like when you see
things like Rodney King or the George Floyd situation. Right,
And most of those people that say I only want
cops in the military to have guns have that belief
system about police. They've villainize them in some sort of

(57:01):
way where they don't trust them, right, and they trust
them to have this quick trigger.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
It's like, okay, so you're.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Telling me that you want them to be the only
people to have firearms. And it's usually what happens is
when you pose that to the person, they kind of
trap themselves and now they're kind of swimming in deeper
water because they're like, well, maybe I need to rethink
the way I think about that, Right, But give as
many people an out as you can. Right, always say, look,
let's have this civil conversation. At the end of this conversation,

(57:27):
they're gonna admit to me that you have to change
the way you feel about firearms. Or you could just
say I hate guns and I don't want people to die.
Even though that's sort of a cartoon world that you're
living in, I can appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
We'll still have a beer together.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah, it doesn't have to end with screaming and yelling
or whatever. Like it's a good let them know on
the front end, right.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Yeah, one hundred percent, Like let them, know, let them
have an out and meet them where they're at, right,
Like everybody.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
Has that same emotion.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
I mean, it's one of the things I loved about
the firearms industry because I got my job to nepotism.
I didn't know anything about firearms when I came into
the gun world, Like I didn't. I went into these
gun shows and I didn't know anything about hunting, or
I didn't grow up around firearms.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Or it was a city kid, right.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
But I remember being at some of the shows when
these these horrific mass shooting events had happened, and watching
the manufacturers and like the heartache and people crying or
people like visibly upset, right, which is the complete opposite
of what you hear like, oh they cheer when there's this.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
No, I didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I actually I saw people that were way more concerned
for like the state of the world and the violence issue.
And and you know the fact that when you focus
on this tool and this is this is zecho Chamber
talking points, but you know, when you focus on this tool,
you really do a disservice to humanity because you're not
looking for the root cause of the issue. So it's

(58:58):
just like we could prevent you from being around a
gun all day long. But if you have a miserable
existence and you're not happy in life and in your
pursuit of happiness has been burned out, like you're going
to find another way to create havoc in your life
for somebody else's life.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
And that's just the way it is. So it's just
like we got to keep working at that.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
And I feel like the tool the firearm could be
a great place to start for many people because now
we have a conversation about because we're not afraid to
talk about these things and go there, whereas before it
was super taboo for us to talk about these things
that we're going to be used against us. You know,
it's just not comfortable. Now let's make it comfortable.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah, I think there was a sense of you're gonna
you're gonna open yourself up for something if you have
those conversations. But Mike, I appreciate you getting in front
of it.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Man.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I know this you're doing, You're working your butt off
with this, and uh, it's crazy. I mean honestly, you
were there for the jump, dude. I mean honestly, it
was like, that's kind of crazy, Mike, Okay, And it's
not like you pick something that was going to be
fun or easy and not all the time. So I
appreciate it. Man. How do people support you, guys? How

(01:00:06):
do they you know, what do they need to do?
What's the ask as far as if they hear this
and say, yeah, okay, I'm on board.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Okay, So let me just say something to the people
listening at home, right, where we've come in the last
six years is something that you could be super proud of. Right,
I've arned borren Americans than most people listening to the show. Okay,
So don't even go there if you're like, oh, there's
another guy who's I mean, you know that I used
to sell sixty eight thousand guns annually to just civilians.
I had no military contracts, no law enforcement contracts, Like

(01:00:37):
that's how many guns.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
When I think about it, it's it's kind of wild.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
But I want to tell you that if you lean
into this and you you accept this as part of
our culture and our conversation, we will win.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Okay, think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
In twenty nineteen and I was the only firearms industry
professional at the White House. You know, look to the
Aspen Institute of Health, being the only firearms professional there.
I just we just had the USA Today full page ad,
which is considered like the mainstream liberal media, that literally
talked us up about all the great things that the
firearms industry is doing. I would have never guessed that

(01:01:13):
we could get a full page in the USA Today. Recently,
I just had an interview with a CNN reporter reporter
from the Guardian who said, Hey, can I get forty
five minutes of your time? We speaking for three and
a half hours, and I truly believe she was blown
away by everything that we do and what's happening inside
the gun industry. Time will tell, right, but let's just

(01:01:36):
say like she gave me three and a half hours.
Nobody sits on the phone for three.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
And a half hours.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
We could change hearts and minds, We could change the
way that people think about us. But we could also
help people. So I donna leave it that. If you
want to be involved, right go to WTTA dot org,
learn more about the organization, become familiar with it. Obviously,
we are five oh one c three. We do not
get any government help when it comes to grants or money.

(01:02:00):
I think we all know why that is I think
at the end of the day, like wherever that grant
money goes, it's not going to go to the firearms guy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
But that's that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Thank thank god for people like Ruger and Davidson's and
Lipsy's who believe in this so much that they fund it.
But any financial donation, we are a leaning mean corporation,
you know, so there is we don't have a suit budget.
Let's just put it that way. Those who know where
I just went, they know they.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Know, so so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
You know, you you you know your money is going
to something good, so go there. And like I said,
not everybody has money to help. So there are different
ways that the website shows you you can help. In
terms of social media. Push our social media across x,
Facebook and Twitter is at walk to Talk Us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
That's another way to become familiar with.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
What the organization does and see all the cool videos
and all the interviews and everything that we've done over
the years. So if you want to help w TA
dot org, but remember force multipliers, like if you're out
there pushing our message even in the discussion with the
echo chamber or outside of the echo chamber, that to
us is just as valuable as a donation, right, you know,

(01:03:14):
encouraging other firearms groups, like, hey, maybe you have a
contact at a firearms company and you're like, look, you
guys should be putting the free and anonymous mental screen
in the box, or.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Maybe your gunshop you think you could do it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I mean, we are receptive to any creative ideas that
you might have where you can help the organization as well.
It doesn't have to be financial, So I appreciate you
let me come on here and spread this message and
talk about these things and kind of give people excited
about this stuff. You know what I mean, you guys,
let me give you your flowers and your father and
everybody that has supported this from day one and always

(01:03:47):
giving me a platform to come on and talk about
it and never judged me for it and didn't have
that quick temper, kind of saw what I was getting
going for in the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
You know, I've always appreciated that. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
No, man, you're doing You're doing great things and it's amazing.
I mean, yeah, probably at first I was like, are
you sure? But but you're I mean, guys, uh, Mike's
not He's not kidding around about this, Like he is
dedicating his time more than full time on this, so

(01:04:21):
you're doing great things, dude. I'm glad we can have
you back on if you if you you're listening to this,
if you're interested in what he's up to, go check
it out. W T t A. Dot org is that right, Mike, yep?

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Or Walkthtalkamerica dot org if you want to spell it
all the way out, but dot org is quick and easy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
All right, awesome, Well, walk to Talk America. I'm glad
we got a chance to talk about it. That's it
for us, everybody. We will see you all next time
on Gun Talk Nation.

All Episodes

Saving Lives: Mental Health and Guns | Gun Talk Nation

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Saving Lives: Mental Health and Guns | Gun Talk Nation