In This Hour:
-- Marking the passing of Ed Brown, a competitor, innovator, and building of fine pistols. Dave Biggers explains the impact Brown had on the firearms industry.
-- Illinois judge brings up the history of race riots and murders of minorities and wonders if those would have ended differently if they has been able to own the semi-autos governments want to ban.
-- Old video surfaces of Kamala Harris calling for warrantless searches of gun owners homes.
Gun Talk 09.22.24 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Marking the passing of Ed Brown, a competitor, innovator, and building of fine pistols. Dave Biggers explains the impact Brown had on the firearms industry.
-- Illinois judge brings up the history of race riots and murders of minorities and wonders if those would have ended differently if they has been able to own the semi-autos governments want to ban.
-- Old video surfaces of Kamala Harris calling for warrantless searches of gun owners homes.
Gun Talk 09.22.24 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the trim is THREEH
eight modern sporting rifles available more power but lighter in
the field and range. See how light it is at
Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
But what do you say, let's talk about guns for
a while. That seems like a good thing to do. Hey,
I'm Tom Gresham, I'm your host, and guess what this
is Gun Talk. That's where we talk about guns and
shooting and the Second Amendment and politics and the guns
you're buying and the guns you're selling, and the AMMO
and the stuff you're doing out at the range. I mean,
it really doesn't matter. If it's about guns and it's
(00:33):
about using them safely and responsibly, we will talk about
it here. And we're pretty much open lines all the time.
Even if we have a subject going, you can always
just jump in the middle of it, because I mean,
that's what a conversation is. Anyway, it seems like these
days and all we're really doing is sitting around the
digital campfire here and shooting the breeze. So if you
want to participate, we have made it very easy for you.
(00:56):
All you have to do is call me Tom at
Tom Talk Gun. How's that for easy Tom talk gun.
We have an awful lot of things going on. We
got hold account a video that popped up of Khamila
Harris saying and we'll get to this a little bit later,
but basically saying, yeah, you have the right to have
a gun in the sanctuary of your own home, but
that doesn't mean we're not going to come walk right
(01:17):
into your home and check to make sure that you're
doing everything responsibly.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
What.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, that's how they think, That's how she thinks, that's
what they want to do. Trust me on this one.
We'll talk about that a good bit as we go
along today. First off, though, and look, we've got a
lot of things we're going to be covering today, But
first off, I want to talk about a pioneer in
the farm's industry and a company that really the name
(01:46):
itself tells you what you need to know and join
us right now to talk about that is my friend
Dave Biggers from ed Brown Products.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
To Dave, I appreciate you being here. How are you doing, my.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Partner, Oh, I'm doing great. It's always a pleasure. Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
You bet.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We've gotten together on ranges here and there and all
over and you know I got Yeah. I mean, as
they said, we've had some times we can't talk about.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah, we both certainly have.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well I don't know what.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
You're talking about, but if we did, we did.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, so we got the sad news today this week
that Ed Brown had died.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And first I want you to kind of walk us through.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And there are a lot of people who know immediately
who we're talking about and the fact that, I mean,
this is the nineteen eleven guy, and a lot of
the improvements we have on our modern nineteen elevens come
from Ed Brown. Back up and tell everybody who Ed
Brown was and what he did and how we benefit
from him today.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, first of all, forgive me, because I am not
an Ed Brown biographer. The uh, I do have quite
a bit of information on him. I'll be happy to
share that, but I'm sure that there's some details that
only the family would know. And there's you know, there's
some fans out there who had followed him his whole career,
and frankly, I'm one of them. The you and I
(03:07):
both remember when you know, Jeff Cooper really kind of
reinvigorated the nineteen eleven market and you know, back in
the in the eighties, you really could not buy a
competition worthy nineteen eleven over the counter. I'm sorry, they
(03:28):
just weren't available. You'd get a gold cup, which was
pretty close, but there were certain components that were lacking.
And you know, that's kind of how a lot of
these guys, you know, that time frame in the eighties
is really the golden age of the custom nineteen eleven gunsmith.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
The uh.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You know, there's extremely there is just a litany of
names out there that all come from that time frame.
And Ed was certainly if he wasn't the very top,
he was at the very top with a limited number
of a few others.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And yeah, I mean Ed, if you will, I mean
we're talking about I mean they if Ed Brown, Bill
Wilson are the two names at the top, because you think,
well they were first of all, they were competitors.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
They were out there shooting.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And then you know, back then, like you said, you
had to get a gold cup from Colt, and then
you had to send it out to have it accurized
and tweaked up and made the way it needed to be.
And so that's when you know Ed Brown and Bill
Wilson and a couple others said, you know, there's no
reason we should have to do that. You should be
able to buy these guns ready to go. We're going
to use the knowledge that we have developed through all
(04:36):
this competition and tweaking of these guns.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Why don't we start making guns.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Right right and with and in particular, he was a
tool and die maker, along with a couple of other
hats that he wore. He was doing tad programming some
other stuff back in the early days of that as well.
And he was a competitor. You know, at one point
he was he was ranked at his number sixteen in
the world and certain segments at the time it was iPSC,
(05:02):
not ups, it was international, and you know, he started
doing the parts company in nineteen eighty eight. Three years
later he was ranked as the number one gunsmith in
the world by the American Pistol Smith Guild. Wow, the uh, yeah,
that that happened relatively quickly. And then ye know, and
(05:26):
trying to think ninety two is when he actually started
doing the pistol itself and doing the entire pistols and
quit doing custom work. Up until that time, he was
doing parts and you could also send in your pistol,
and you could get a custom built at Brown. And
you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
There was.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
I mean, I bought a nineteen eleven as soon as
I turned twenty one, and not realizing that you needed
to drop you know, a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars
in one to get usable sites and you know, a
beavertail so you can get uber bite. And I'm bad
about that. Trying to shoot a gi I can, but
(06:08):
I still if I'm not careful, they just bite the
crap out of me. But you know, those those were
just names that you heard.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I joke with people if you had told me when
I was in high school that someday I would work
for ed Brown products, had been like, there is no
way in heck that is ever going to happen. Yeah,
because I remember the ads, I remember reading about that stuff.
I remember reading about those guys and.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Like, how cool is that?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
You know?
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And I have not only to drive it all though,
the talent to make it. And there were a lot
of innovations that he came up with. You know, there's
a lot of cross stuff, you know, in some cases
a lot of different people. Well, we think this guy
came up with it first. But I can give you
one right up front that absolutely came from Ed Brown,
and that's the bobtail. Everybody does a bobtail, now, Ed
(06:59):
Brown was the first one to do that actually trade market.
And if you still want to convert a standard government
model to a bobtail, you can still buy the jig
and you can still buy the parts to convert that.
And that is one Brown. You know, there's a lot
of other stuff too, that one, there is zero debate.
(07:21):
That's absolutely his baby.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, when I think of Ed Brown's products, I think
of people who have these really nice nineteen elevens and
and you know it's not fifteen hundred dollars anymore, As
we know, nothing else is nothing to cost the same.
You know, it's you're you're looking at two three times that,
but are more depends you know, as we always say,
there's no upper limit on some of these things.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
But what you get in on is a gun.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
That shoots incredibly accurately, is tight but reliable.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And that's the trick to a lot of this, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
You know, it is funny because I'm sure that you
heard like I did. You know, it was always if
you wanted to be reliable, it's got to be loose.
And if your services are not one hundred percent parallel,
that is correct. I had no idea that you could
have both a snug fit and reliability. But if those
(08:16):
are both parallel, you've got parallel surfaces. There's nowhere for
anything to build up. There's nothing. Anything that goes in
comes right back out because there's no place for it
to hold. If you've got a gap, or if you've
got a slight in perfection, and when I say slight,
i'm talking thousands, ten thousands, well you can ultimately there's
going to get some carbon in there, you may get
(08:38):
some other craft, and eventually it's going to slow it
down because that does not need to be in there.
And now that's a pressure point. But when they're parallel
like that, you know, you pick the gun up and
you run the slide and you're like, man, this is
really nice, but how is this going to run? It's
going to run just fine, Thank you very much, is
Travis Toby. One time I asked you something and I
(09:00):
can't even remember what it was about, and I said, oh,
I know what it was. So we do not do
ramp nine millimeter barrels. Okay, everybody else does everybody else
If they're doing a nine millimeters they do a ramp
nine millimeter barrel. And I was asking Travis's son, who's
the CEO of the company and has been for a
(09:21):
while now, I said, how come you did it that way?
And he said, well, there's two reasons. One because Ed
said so, and number two because when he was doing that,
a lot of people were building guns. And the reason
that they had the ramps is when thirty eight super
really came on the scene, hot and heavy people were
(09:43):
taking nine millimeters. They were rechambering them. They were running
extremely high pressure loads and you could rupture case. So
you had to have full chamber support. But even even
plus P plus factory m O, that's not necessary. And frankly,
I think not having that is a little bit more
forgiving on the design of the guy with the bullet.
(10:05):
So I really that's like I said, why because Ed said, so.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
There you go, Dave. Let me direct people. It's ed
Brown dot com. They can take a look at the
cool guns. You can obviously get customer making guns. You
can get the handguns and these are working guns but
also works of art and there it's nineteen eleven. You'll
be proud to have and you'll have it the rest
of your life because once you get one, you just go.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I just had no idea they could.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Be like this, right, absolutely, absolutely, Well.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Thank you for sharing a little bit of the information
about Ed, and you know, we regret his passing, but
we sure do applaud and celebrate what he brought to
us into this entire industry. Dave Bigger is my friend.
Thank you so much for spending time with us.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
You're more than welcome, and thank you for allowing me
just to mention Ed briefly. So yeah, he will definitely
be missed.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
There you go appreciate that, all right?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Eight six ' six talk gun or Tom talk gun?
Do you have a cool nineteen elevety you haven't f
Brown for that matter, or a Bill Wilson one of those?
What do you think about paying more to get the
very best in any kind of a gun?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
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(11:48):
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Speaker 7 (11:59):
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(12:23):
leave a legacy, be legendary.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
Your entry to our world is a clickaway. At gun
talk dot com, stay informed and entertained on the latest
firearm related topics. Whether it's new guns, training tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
self defense, or gun rights news, we cover it all.
(12:52):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So what the heck is that car being that turns
heads and leaves you grinning? The Ruger elccar being in five, seven,
by twenty eight or forty five auto is whatever you
want it to be. Make it your range gun, your
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Ruger elccar beings just plain old shooting fun. Make sure
(13:21):
your friends bring their own AMMO. It's that much fun.
Check it out at Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Man, there's a whole lot going on right now. Hey,
I'm Tom Gresham. By the way, the show is gun Talk.
You talk about guns here. If you want to check
us out all over the web, We're all over the
social media things on Instagram, on Twitter X and Facebook,
YouTube doesn't matter. Just look for gun Talk or gun
Talk to me. You'll find us everywhere. We have thousands,
literally thousands of videos. We have three television shows we produce.
(14:07):
We have a facility down in Louisiana where you can
go and shoot with the very best shooters and sometimes
participate in these unbelievable events that manufacturers put together, where
you'll have a gun company brings a new gun and
you take the class and as part of the deal,
you end up with the gun at the end of
the class. You got to sign up for those though,
(14:28):
because those go very quickly. You can go to range
Ready Studios dot com and you can excuse me, you
can sign up for us. Here's what happens. By the
time the class gets posted on the web at range
readystudios dot com, usually an email has gone out to
people who have said you put me on the email
(14:49):
list and on these special classes. Sometimes they will actually
sell out. I mean there's small classes. We're talking twelve people,
fourteen people. Maybe they'll sell out before they hit the web.
So what you want to do, if you have any
interest in this at all, is to go to Rangeburgy
Studios dot com and sign up to be on the newsletter,
(15:12):
to get the newsletter, to get on the list, and
have them send you a notification when there are new
classes that are about to be announced, because people on
the list, the newsletvel list, the email list, they get
that first. So I just signed up. I'm going to
go down and take the class in December. It's called
(15:34):
the Diagnostic Pistol Instructor. It's Chris Soreno at his finest
and Chris is our lead instructor. He's the director of
all training for gun Talk Media, and he does a
class where he teaches you to teach, and you know,
the people will say, if you really want to know
how to do something, you need to go teach it
(15:55):
because that's when you really learn about it. And from
what I hear from people who've been to the class,
he drills down and cuts you no slack and he
makes sure that you're doing it right, and then you
know how to diagnose other people. One of the things
that Chris talks about is the ability to diagnose yourself.
I mean, how are you going to get better if
(16:17):
you don't know what you're doing? And I just find
the whole topic fascinating. So I'm going to go down
to Louisiana and take that class in December. Obviously, if
you want to sign up, I'll see you there for
that one. I think it's going to be well. I
know it's going to be good because pretty much everything
they do there is really good, and everything Chris does
with instruction is pretty phenomenal. So we have a lot
(16:42):
of well, first of all, let me back up the
Gun Rights Policy Conference starts on Friday, Friday night, actually
Saturday and Sunday, mostly in San Diego, So a week
from this weekend. If you go to Second Amendment Foundation's
website SAF dot org you can see them from a It
is free to attend, so if you get there you can.
(17:03):
I mean a lot of the movers and shakers from
the gun rights movement will be there, a lot of
people from the various gun rights groups will be there.
Many of the speakers are the top attorneys who are
arguing these cases or the strategists who are working on this.
I mean, this is a hands on We're going to
get seriously geeky about how to win back the Second Amendment.
(17:27):
And I am planning on being there unless this stupid
coal I just pick up really gets worse. But I'll
be there, and obviously you can be there too. Like
I say, it's free. Just go to SAF dot org
and you can find out more about the Gun Rights
Policy Conference. A lot of cases that are being argued
right now. One in Illinois is fascinating because it has
(17:52):
it's before just our judged Stephen McGlenn. This is Illinois's
so called quote unquote assault weapons ban. Obviously, they're not
assault weapons. This is just a political term. Let me
be clear. Assault weapon is a political term. It's a
propaganda term. There is no such thing in existence. There's
(18:15):
simply no such thing. There is a thing called an
assault rifle that is defined by the military, and those
are select fire that is, they can go full automatic.
And then there are semi automatic firearms, which have been
around for more than one hundred years and been used
by millions of people in competition and self defense and
hunting and anything that you use guns for legally, So.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
This has been around a long time.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So anyway, Illinois, as have other states, have decided to
band these and also magazines that hold more than ten
rounds for rifles and more than fifteen rounds four handguns.
This has run its way all the way up and
then back down to Judge McGlenn who is hearing the
case again, and he's hearing it in East Saint Lewis.
(19:02):
What was interesting is at the end of all the
testimony and all the arguments, this is not a jury trial.
Just before Judge McGlenn, he brings up the nineteen seventeen
East Saint Louis race riots and the nineteen twenty one
Tulsa massacre and I did, I got it.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Met.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I did not know anything about the nineteen seventeen East
Saint Louis race riots. They call them race riots, but
in reality the blacks there were burned out and shot
by whites and law enforcement. And I many many buildings
burned to the ground. And what was interesting in this
(19:46):
case is that Judge McGlenn he reflects on how these
might have unfolded differently if black victims had had access
to the types of farms now banned under the States
so called assault weapon ban. Very interesting. And then see
(20:10):
David Siegel, who is the attorney who's arguing the case.
We've had David on the show here a number of times.
He mentions that that is really the core reason why
he's passionate about the Second Amendment. He says, quote, there's
countless stories of people victimized, whether it's for race or
their gender. And David talks about the fact that laws
(20:31):
that prohibit people from having effective means of self defense
adversely affect whether you call it minorities or targeted groups
or whatever I like. There is a fellow on X
and social media, Pepjew, and he's a Jewish man who
(20:53):
advocates for firearms and self defense. And he's got a
great T shirt and he says people with they are
is do not get in cattle cars. Pretty simple message
and I like the way it goes. All right, let's
talk to Jeffrey in Colorado Online four. Oh oh, wait
a minute, Jeffrey, you don't go anywhere, Jim says, we
(21:14):
only got a mintal left, so we're going to hold
you over the break. You don't go anywhere, So we're
going to get that because I do want to talk
about that. Also when we come back, I want to
talk about how do you or do you in fact,
tune yourself up to be ready for self defense? That
is not just going to the range and shooting. But
I do want to talk about that. When you go
(21:36):
to the range, what do you do, how do you practice?
But also how do you tune yourself up to ramp
up your awareness, to ramp up your situational awareness, what's
going on around you, to think about the possibility of
if this happens, then I will do that. Do you
use online videos, do you use writing? Do you talk
(21:57):
to other people? Do you go take actual class is
in this or do you just kind of contemplate it
or just ignore it and say, well, I'll figure it
out when it gets here. Which state. That's one way
to go to Our number eight six six Talk Gun.
I'm Tom Gresham'll be right back with more gun talk.
(22:21):
I'm back with you here. Our number is Tom Talk Gun.
Pretty easy. Tom mets me. Tom talk gun will get
you in. We're pretty much open lines if there's something
you want to talk about. This video popped up this
week unearthed from way back in two thousand and seven
when Kamala Harris was the San Francisco District Attorney and
(22:42):
she's standing there in this video next to then San
Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, and she's holding a press conference
about gun control.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And here's what she says. I you got to listen
to this. This is the quote.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Just because you leave possess a gun in the sanctity
of your locked home doesn't mean we're not going to
walk into that home and check to see if you're
being responsible and safe in the way you conduct your affairs.
(23:18):
Think about that, in the sanctity of your locked home,
we're still going to walk into your locked home. I
mean Fourth Amendment search and seizure all the rest of it.
Will church warrants forget all of that, because we want
to make sure that you are complying.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Understand in the end, that's really what they want. They
want your compliance.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
They want you to bow down, they want you to
do exactly what they say, and they are willing to
send armed people into your locked home to get your compliance.
That's two thousand and seven. We'll have more of things
that she has said and done in just a minute. First,
I want to go to lying for Jefferies with us
out of Colorado. Jeffery, thank you for your patience. You're
(24:03):
on gun talk. What's on your mind?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Hey, Tom? You've been talking a lot recently about self
defense opportunities to not shoot because of all the potential
negative clients whoqunces for yourself, and I want to get
your opinion on a little bit further down the road.
On that thought, I'm wondering if a bad guy's coming
at you with say a gun or a knife, and
(24:27):
they say, hey, I want your wallet. Now, I'm smart
enough not to try and draw and somebody that's got
a gun pointed at me, and I also know the
tuler to rule or with respect to knives. But I'm
just wondering, how do you know they're going to stop
there once you give them the wallet, or and if
an opportunity presents itself, Let's say they get temporarily distracted
(24:49):
before you give them the wallet.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
You know, do you.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
Recommend drawing in or shooting because of what might come
afterwards if the person just keeps going.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Okay, it's a great question because it allows us to
knock this around just a little bit more. If somebody's
walking up to you and appears to not have any
weapons and not have anything, you know, anything in their hands,
insteads give me your wallet, you can tell me I
don't think so go away. If they come towards you
with a knife or a gun, this is now armed robbery.
(25:23):
It's also assault with a deadly weapon. They don't have
to stab you or shoot you for it to be
assault with the deadly weapon. At that point, I am
not going to let them get close to me. I
am going to run if that's an option, you know,
evade if I if I can throw the wallet. Here's
the other part of it. If you're gonna give them
your wallet, don't hand it to them, throw it to them.
(25:47):
Maintain that distance and then okay, guess because I'm sneaky.
When they bend down to pick up the wallet would
be a really good time to draw your gun. And
if they still have a gun in their hand when
they come up with the wallet in their hand, I
would be shooting them multiple times because they have a
gun and they have, you know, committed a felony and
(26:10):
all bets are off as you to your point, how
do you know what they're going to do? You don't,
that may have decided well that's not enough, or heck,
I want to shoot you anyway, So the presence of
the gun or a presence of a knife changes everything,
and you know, you really bring up something that's interesting
is that these are continually changing situations, and they're may
(26:31):
be changing by the second, and so the situation that
you start off with may change and you may have
to alter that. And it's a really good idea to
do what you're doing, which is to think about it
and game it out and say, Okay, what if this,
what if that?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
What would I do? Then you know is there and
you're right, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Draw a guy who's holding a gun on me, But
if he turns and points a gun somewhere else or
looks away. That may mean my opportunity, but it would
really have been a good idea to practice this all lot,
so you can draw your gun and shoot.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Quickly, right, yep, for sure? Well, I mean, where do
you come down on this?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
I think, like everything else, it's highly fact dependent on
the particular situation, and it's just going to require on
my instinct is to just how far I think this
guy might go. And I don't know that there's a
set of criteria I can give you that I'm going
to run through this checklist and say, okay, if he
hits three of the four, I'm going to do this.
(27:34):
But I do have to say I am very concerned
because I hear time after time stories in the news
about carjackings where they get the car and then they
kill the driver.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Anyway, well, let me just tell you my kicking points.
When they come out with a gun or a knife,
they are well past the tipping point and all bets
are off. It is time to do whatever is necessary.
We're through wondering, you know, there's no wondering. I wonder
what they're gonna do later. I don't care you pointed
(28:04):
a gun at me. Here's the deal. I'll tell people,
what do you think a cop would do if you
pointed a gun at a cop, CoP's gonna shoot you
every single time.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, and you should be operating under the same rules.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, yeah, except for the qualified immunity that they have.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Don't care. Don't care. At that point, that becomes problem
number two. We have to get through problem number one first,
and problem with number one is staying alive right now.
And make no mistake, I don't care if it's a
gun or a knife. It is a deadly weapon, and
I am not you know, I'm gonna do whatever I
have to do, or whatever it's possible to do to
(28:45):
make sure that I don't get hurt.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
So I guess I'm I hear what you're saying, and
I can't disagree with any of that, but I guess
I'm a little unclear about what I thought I heard
you saying price in previous weeks about how if they
want your wallet, you're going to get in the wallet.
If they want your car, you're going to give in
the car. What's the difference between those two situations.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, if they want my car and I don't have
the opportunity to defend myself or if I you know,
I mean, this is gonna be an instant call on
the spot. I Am not going to subject myself to
getting shot or knifed over my car or my wallet
(29:30):
or my TV. But at the same time, if you know,
it's if somebody's walking up to me with a knife, well,
if it's a knife, I'm pulling my gun, I'm pointing
it at him and saying stop right now. They get one,
stop right now, they don't get a second one.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
That's it done.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Okay, if you's got a gun, you got a whole
different situation, just as you have alluded to, which says, okay,
now we got to be careful. Where's the point of
what you're doing. And that's where they throw the wallet
way out there to where he is. Don't let him
get close to you. Is not a bad way to go.
Just but part of this is just thinking that through.
Or can you I mean, let's just think about this
(30:09):
for a second. If you're at your car, you're outside
your car, for instance, can you just start side stepping
and get something between you and that person even when
you look at it and go that person looks sketchy.
I don't like the way he's moving. I don't like
what's going on. Get moving immediately, get something between you
(30:30):
and him, because that barrier becomes time, and time gives
you the ability to react one way or the other
whatever's appropriate for you at the time. But part of
this is thinking it through. Of I'm pumping gas and
there's some goofy guy over there. I'm going to move
to the other side of the car. I'm just gonna
get some distance till I figure out what's going on.
You know, later on you can say, well, I didn't
(30:50):
need to it didn't turn out to be anything. Okay, fine,
no harm, no foul, fair enough, Hey, let me run
to the braak here. I appreciate the call. Good conversation
if you want to continue this, if you got the
questions about what.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Would I do?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
If we certainly can knock that around. Also, I went
to the range yesterday made some more brass for this
troublesome rifle. We'll see where we go with that. Our
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Speaker 11 (32:57):
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Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yes, back with you here.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
It's gun talk. I'm Tom Gresham. That's you're lying to
you raised with us out Brewster, New York. Right, you're
on gun talk. What's you're thinking?
Speaker 12 (33:48):
Well, let me tell you what I'm thinking. I understand
the necessity. I'm a full court press behind Donald Chuck.
I mean, there's really no argument there. However, what many
people to get in the average presidential election, all the
(34:08):
downticket people for example maybe a United States where the
public elects the attorney general or less key appellate court
justices or even in city council people. We need to
get all the friends we can find and all the
places we can put them, because those are the people
who will graduate leaves a higher office so they get
(34:31):
their seat wet where they are and then they've got
the right mindset. And we're trying to we're trying to
change the mindset of our elected representatives and are officials.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Do you know what I'm saying, I do.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And I think along with what you're saying is you're
looking at down ballot candidates. Is informing yourself on them
and not just what they're saying. But go talk to
them because a lot of times those folks are actually
doing town halls, they're doing meetings, they're doing together at
delis with people, that type of thing. Go get off
your rear end and go talk to them and say, look,
(35:05):
and I like asking the open ended question. It's not
like you know, what are you going to do to
preserve the Second Amendment? Well, that tells them where you are.
Ask them what are you going to do about guns?
And then see where they go, because they don't know
where you are, and you want the answer to come
from them not knowing where you are on the issue.
Now you're going to get a little bit of a
(35:26):
truer feel for where they are. What are you going
to do about crime. What are you going to do
about guns? Just those kind of things as opposed to
if you've mentioned the Second Amendment, they're going to know
exactly where you are, and you're probably not going to
get a true reading out. I mean, you're going to
get the Kamala Harris. You know, well, I own a gun,
and no one's going to take care of your guns.
That we don't want to take your guns away from you. Well,
(35:46):
number one, I don't know if she owns a gun
or not. I don't care. Actually it doesn't really matter.
And yes, she absolutely positively will wants to and will
take guns away from millions of Americans because she has
pushed for a gun ban for decades. She has always
pushed for gun band She wants to ban semi automatic
(36:07):
firearms as a start. And so anyway, and that started
to make your point, right, that started way back. We
just read you this quote from two thousand and seven
when she was the district attorney of San Francisco. Once again,
to your point, when you elect a district attorney or
a city councilman, or a mayor or a sheriff, it
(36:30):
pays to know where they are on these issues. Hey,
great call, I appreciate that. And yes, I know people say, well,
what does she own it? What does she really own?
Does she really have a gun? I don't know, I
don't care. Honestly, that's a distraction. They're very good at
(36:50):
these distractions of getting you off subject. You know, of course,
I mean the main thing for you to know about
me is that you know I was born into a
middle class family. You start out every answer with that, right,
but what about this, well, I was born into the middle
class family. Actually, of fine, who cares. It's like it's
the silliest way of saying nothing, saying a lot of
(37:12):
words and saying nothing. I did read an interesting little
psychological report and I said, there's a psychological term for
what she does, and they call it the imposter syndrome.
And when I read it, it actually made a lot
of sense to me. Which is the nervous laughing, the deflection.
(37:37):
It's knowing that you're actually incompetent, that you're.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
In way over your head.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And the way you keep people from finding out or
talking about it is number one. You keep talking, don't
let them come back in with a comment, and you
deflect with the silly laughter, The nervous laughter and the
bazz are stories of you know whatever, and the idea
that she says that she and Tim Wallas are gun owners.
(38:07):
They don't want to take your guns away. Ten years ago,
she as the Attorney general in California, she certified micro
stamping as an existing technology. It was not, nor is
it now in existing technology, but by certifying it such,
she made it so that no new handguns could be
(38:28):
added to the roster, could not be sold in California.
It was the ultimate gun band simply by saying this
non existing technology was now ready for mainstream and you
couldn't sell a gun in California unless it had micro stamping.
And the gunmaker said, there's no way for us to
do it. It doesn't exist. It's her response, is not
my problem, dude, I already got my gun. Like she
(38:51):
has a gun. She has secret service. That's what she's got.
Eight six six talk gun. All right here, eighty six
six talk gun. Let's go talk with Joe. He's the
new Jersey Joe. You take somebody out of the range
(39:14):
for that.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Tom.
Speaker 13 (39:15):
This is the third new shooter in six months, and
I've come up with a new way to teach him.
What I've figured out is that they get bullseye fixation.
You know, we do the dry fire before we get
to the range and they're holding the gun. You know,
I have him hold the empty gun and pull the
trigger in their rock solid and then I get to
the range and I put up the target with a
bullseye on it, and I watched the end of the
(39:37):
gun and of course, you know, the gun is wavering,
and of course as the gun waivers over the bullseye,
they jerk the trigger because they want to put it
right in the middle of the bullseye, right, and you'll
watch the gun flinch. So the way I fixed it
with this most recent shooter, as I took the bullseye
down and I put up just a big bad guy,
you know, a big target of a bad guy that
doesn't have a defined aiming point, and I said, I
(40:00):
just want you to put it anywhere in the upper body.
Just focus on squeezing the trigger. And as soon as
I did that and took away that bullseye that they
were trying to nail that bullseye, he put a group.
You could have covered town with your hand. And as
soon as we put the bullseye back, you start to
jerk them off the paper.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
I think you got to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I'm gonna give you one other thing to try, and
this one is really fun because nobody believes it's gonna
worksure close your eyes exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I've talked about it before.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I mean, you get them all lined up, target on
you know, the guns on target, sites on target.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Say now close your eyes and just press the trigger
and just I mean literally it's like closure eyes and
then goes bang right after that, and the groups are
unbelievably small, and they'll go back and brag about, Hey,
I shot this great group with my eyes closed. But
it goes back to exactly what you're talking about. They
now have stopped trying to make the perfect shot and
(41:04):
they're working on making the perfect trigger press.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
And that's how you shoot right.
Speaker 13 (41:09):
And so my suggestion is, if you're taking a new
shooter out, the worst thing you can do is put
up a target with a bullseye on it. Uh, you know,
the less defined naming point and the better, because every time.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Look at this off of it, what would happen if
we took the target and turned it around backwards and
just had a white piece of paper.
Speaker 13 (41:29):
You know that could work too, you know that, you know,
I might give that a try again. The big sell,
you know, the big bad guy silhouettes I'm talking about
round the bad guy with the gun fills the whole
paper and he was able to put him, you know,
all all in this nice little five inch five inch
circle right in the middle where the heart would be.
(41:49):
But again, that target doesn't have a yellow or red dot.
To Amatt, so I just said, just focus on squeezing
the trigger and then I put I put the bullseye
target back in. His groups started to go to hell
against So we went back and forth a couple of times.
But well, but anyway, don't start new shooters with a
bullseye target.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Excellent, Jar, I appreciate that, and of course thank you
for the call. In typical fashion, I always think I'm
a head and I'm never ahead. Because Michelle says, we
shoot blank targets for beginners all the time. I guess
they've been doing that for a long time now. And
once again I'm thinking, hey, I've come up with something new. No,
actually haven't. Somebody else is are already doing it, and
actually it's old news. It's just new news to me
(42:31):
and that's okay because then I can pass along to
you and now it's new news to you as well.
And that is just you know, where we are with
this stuff. Is all I really do is I pick
up stuff from other people. I pass it along here.
I don't claim it as my own. I mean, it's
just every once in a while I'll think I have
come up for something new and then they find out,
yuh know, others have been doing it anyway, so it's
(42:53):
like not really new, it's just new to me. But
that's okay. I'll pass it along and you do the
same thing. You passed along that information to me as well. Hey,
when we come back, I want to talk about there's
a cool company out in Montana make it Ammo, making
more Ammo than you can believe, a lot of different
kinds of Ammo, and they're doing some really interesting stuff,
(43:16):
and I want to talk to them about, well, how
they're doing that and what Ammo they're making these days.
I also, I'll tell you about me going to the
range all by myself. It's like a week or two
before the opening season, and there's nobody out there siting
in targets. I don't understand that. Oh, well eight six
' six talk be right back.
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
But what do you say, let's talk about guns for
a while. That seems like a good thing to do. Hey,
I'm Tom Gresham, I'm your host, and guess what this
is Gun Talk. That's where we talk about guns and
shooting and the Second Amendment and politics and the guns
you're buying and the guns you're selling, and the AMMO
and the stuff you're doing out at the range. I mean,
it really doesn't matter. If it's about guns and it's
(00:33):
about using them safely and responsibly, we will talk about
it here. And we're pretty much open lines all the time.
Even if we have a subject going, you can always
just jump in the middle of it, because I mean,
that's what a conversation is. Anyway, it seems like these
days and all we're really doing is sitting around the
digital campfire here and shooting the breeze. So if you
want to participate, we have made it very easy for you.
(00:56):
All you have to do is call me Tom at
Tom Talk Gun. How's that for easy Tom talk gun.
We have an awful lot of things going on. We
got hold account a video that popped up of Khamila
Harris saying and we'll get to this a little bit later,
but basically saying, yeah, you have the right to have
a gun in the sanctuary of your own home, but
that doesn't mean we're not going to come walk right
(01:17):
into your home and check to make sure that you're
doing everything responsibly.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
What.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, that's how they think, That's how she thinks, that's
what they want to do. Trust me on this one.
We'll talk about that a good bit as we go
along today. First off, though, and look, we've got a
lot of things we're going to be covering today, But
first off, I want to talk about a pioneer in
the farm's industry and a company that really the name
(01:46):
itself tells you what you need to know and join
us right now to talk about that is my friend
Dave Biggers from ed Brown Products.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
To Dave, I appreciate you being here. How are you doing, my.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Partner, Oh, I'm doing great. It's always a pleasure. Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
You bet.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We've gotten together on ranges here and there and all
over and you know I got Yeah. I mean, as
they said, we've had some times we can't talk about.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah, we both certainly have.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well I don't know what.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
You're talking about, but if we did, we did.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, so we got the sad news today this week
that Ed Brown had died.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And first I want you to kind of walk us through.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And there are a lot of people who know immediately
who we're talking about and the fact that, I mean,
this is the nineteen eleven guy, and a lot of
the improvements we have on our modern nineteen elevens come
from Ed Brown. Back up and tell everybody who Ed
Brown was and what he did and how we benefit
from him today.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, first of all, forgive me, because I am not
an Ed Brown biographer. The uh, I do have quite
a bit of information on him. I'll be happy to
share that, but I'm sure that there's some details that
only the family would know. And there's you know, there's
some fans out there who had followed him his whole career,
and frankly, I'm one of them. The you and I
(03:07):
both remember when you know, Jeff Cooper really kind of
reinvigorated the nineteen eleven market and you know, back in
the in the eighties, you really could not buy a
competition worthy nineteen eleven over the counter. I'm sorry, they
(03:28):
just weren't available. You'd get a gold cup, which was
pretty close, but there were certain components that were lacking.
And you know, that's kind of how a lot of
these guys, you know, that time frame in the eighties
is really the golden age of the custom nineteen eleven gunsmith.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
The uh.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You know, there's extremely there is just a litany of
names out there that all come from that time frame.
And Ed was certainly if he wasn't the very top,
he was at the very top with a limited number
of a few others.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And yeah, I mean Ed, if you will, I mean
we're talking about I mean they if Ed Brown, Bill
Wilson are the two names at the top, because you think,
well they were first of all, they were competitors.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
They were out there shooting.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And then you know, back then, like you said, you
had to get a gold cup from Colt, and then
you had to send it out to have it accurized
and tweaked up and made the way it needed to be.
And so that's when you know Ed Brown and Bill
Wilson and a couple others said, you know, there's no
reason we should have to do that. You should be
able to buy these guns ready to go. We're going
to use the knowledge that we have developed through all
(04:36):
this competition and tweaking of these guns.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Why don't we start making guns.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Right right and with and in particular, he was a
tool and die maker, along with a couple of other
hats that he wore. He was doing tad programming some
other stuff back in the early days of that as well.
And he was a competitor. You know, at one point
he was he was ranked at his number sixteen in
the world and certain segments at the time it was iPSC,
(05:02):
not ups, it was international, and you know, he started
doing the parts company in nineteen eighty eight. Three years
later he was ranked as the number one gunsmith in
the world by the American Pistol Smith Guild. Wow, the uh, yeah,
that that happened relatively quickly. And then ye know, and
(05:26):
trying to think ninety two is when he actually started
doing the pistol itself and doing the entire pistols and
quit doing custom work. Up until that time, he was
doing parts and you could also send in your pistol,
and you could get a custom built at Brown. And
you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
There was.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
I mean, I bought a nineteen eleven as soon as
I turned twenty one, and not realizing that you needed
to drop you know, a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars
in one to get usable sites and you know, a
beavertail so you can get uber bite. And I'm bad
about that. Trying to shoot a gi I can, but
(06:08):
I still if I'm not careful, they just bite the
crap out of me. But you know, those those were
just names that you heard.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I joke with people if you had told me when
I was in high school that someday I would work
for ed Brown products, had been like, there is no
way in heck that is ever going to happen. Yeah,
because I remember the ads, I remember reading about that stuff.
I remember reading about those guys and.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Like, how cool is that?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
You know?
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And I have not only to drive it all though,
the talent to make it. And there were a lot
of innovations that he came up with. You know, there's
a lot of cross stuff, you know, in some cases
a lot of different people. Well, we think this guy
came up with it first. But I can give you
one right up front that absolutely came from Ed Brown,
and that's the bobtail. Everybody does a bobtail, now, Ed
(06:59):
Brown was the first one to do that actually trade market.
And if you still want to convert a standard government
model to a bobtail, you can still buy the jig
and you can still buy the parts to convert that.
And that is one Brown. You know, there's a lot
of other stuff too, that one, there is zero debate.
(07:21):
That's absolutely his baby.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, when I think of Ed Brown's products, I think
of people who have these really nice nineteen elevens and
and you know it's not fifteen hundred dollars anymore, As
we know, nothing else is nothing to cost the same.
You know, it's you're you're looking at two three times that,
but are more depends you know, as we always say,
there's no upper limit on some of these things.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
But what you get in on is a gun.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
That shoots incredibly accurately, is tight but reliable.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And that's the trick to a lot of this, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
You know, it is funny because I'm sure that you
heard like I did. You know, it was always if
you wanted to be reliable, it's got to be loose.
And if your services are not one hundred percent parallel,
that is correct. I had no idea that you could
have both a snug fit and reliability. But if those
(08:16):
are both parallel, you've got parallel surfaces. There's nowhere for
anything to build up. There's nothing. Anything that goes in
comes right back out because there's no place for it
to hold. If you've got a gap, or if you've
got a slight in perfection, and when I say slight,
i'm talking thousands, ten thousands, well you can ultimately there's
going to get some carbon in there, you may get
(08:38):
some other craft, and eventually it's going to slow it
down because that does not need to be in there.
And now that's a pressure point. But when they're parallel
like that, you know, you pick the gun up and
you run the slide and you're like, man, this is
really nice, but how is this going to run? It's
going to run just fine, Thank you very much, is
Travis Toby. One time I asked you something and I
(09:00):
can't even remember what it was about, and I said, oh,
I know what it was. So we do not do
ramp nine millimeter barrels. Okay, everybody else does everybody else
If they're doing a nine millimeters they do a ramp
nine millimeter barrel. And I was asking Travis's son, who's
the CEO of the company and has been for a
(09:21):
while now, I said, how come you did it that way?
And he said, well, there's two reasons. One because Ed
said so, and number two because when he was doing that,
a lot of people were building guns. And the reason
that they had the ramps is when thirty eight super
really came on the scene, hot and heavy people were
(09:43):
taking nine millimeters. They were rechambering them. They were running
extremely high pressure loads and you could rupture case. So
you had to have full chamber support. But even even
plus P plus factory m O, that's not necessary. And frankly,
I think not having that is a little bit more
forgiving on the design of the guy with the bullet.
(10:05):
So I really that's like I said, why because Ed said, so.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
There you go, Dave. Let me direct people. It's ed
Brown dot com. They can take a look at the
cool guns. You can obviously get customer making guns. You
can get the handguns and these are working guns but
also works of art and there it's nineteen eleven. You'll
be proud to have and you'll have it the rest
of your life because once you get one, you just go.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I just had no idea they could.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Be like this, right, absolutely, absolutely, Well.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Thank you for sharing a little bit of the information
about Ed, and you know, we regret his passing, but
we sure do applaud and celebrate what he brought to
us into this entire industry. Dave Bigger is my friend.
Thank you so much for spending time with us.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
You're more than welcome, and thank you for allowing me
just to mention Ed briefly. So yeah, he will definitely
be missed.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
There you go appreciate that, all right?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Eight six ' six talk gun or Tom talk gun?
Do you have a cool nineteen elevety you haven't f
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Speaker 1 (13:00):
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Speaker 2 (13:43):
Man, there's a whole lot going on right now. Hey,
I'm Tom Gresham. By the way, the show is gun Talk.
You talk about guns here. If you want to check
us out all over the web, We're all over the
social media things on Instagram, on Twitter X and Facebook,
YouTube doesn't matter. Just look for gun Talk or gun
Talk to me. You'll find us everywhere. We have thousands,
literally thousands of videos. We have three television shows we produce.
(14:07):
We have a facility down in Louisiana where you can
go and shoot with the very best shooters and sometimes
participate in these unbelievable events that manufacturers put together, where
you'll have a gun company brings a new gun and
you take the class and as part of the deal,
you end up with the gun at the end of
the class. You got to sign up for those though,
(14:28):
because those go very quickly. You can go to range
Ready Studios dot com and you can excuse me, you
can sign up for us. Here's what happens. By the
time the class gets posted on the web at range
readystudios dot com, usually an email has gone out to
people who have said you put me on the email
(14:49):
list and on these special classes. Sometimes they will actually
sell out. I mean there's small classes. We're talking twelve people,
fourteen people. Maybe they'll sell out before they hit the web.
So what you want to do, if you have any
interest in this at all, is to go to Rangeburgy
Studios dot com and sign up to be on the newsletter,
(15:12):
to get the newsletter, to get on the list, and
have them send you a notification when there are new
classes that are about to be announced, because people on
the list, the newsletvel list, the email list, they get
that first. So I just signed up. I'm going to
go down and take the class in December. It's called
(15:34):
the Diagnostic Pistol Instructor. It's Chris Soreno at his finest
and Chris is our lead instructor. He's the director of
all training for gun Talk Media, and he does a
class where he teaches you to teach, and you know,
the people will say, if you really want to know
how to do something, you need to go teach it
(15:55):
because that's when you really learn about it. And from
what I hear from people who've been to the class,
he drills down and cuts you no slack and he
makes sure that you're doing it right, and then you
know how to diagnose other people. One of the things
that Chris talks about is the ability to diagnose yourself.
I mean, how are you going to get better if
(16:17):
you don't know what you're doing? And I just find
the whole topic fascinating. So I'm going to go down
to Louisiana and take that class in December. Obviously, if
you want to sign up, I'll see you there for
that one. I think it's going to be well. I
know it's going to be good because pretty much everything
they do there is really good, and everything Chris does
with instruction is pretty phenomenal. So we have a lot
(16:42):
of well, first of all, let me back up the
Gun Rights Policy Conference starts on Friday, Friday night, actually
Saturday and Sunday, mostly in San Diego, So a week
from this weekend. If you go to Second Amendment Foundation's
website SAF dot org you can see them from a It
is free to attend, so if you get there you can.
(17:03):
I mean a lot of the movers and shakers from
the gun rights movement will be there, a lot of
people from the various gun rights groups will be there.
Many of the speakers are the top attorneys who are
arguing these cases or the strategists who are working on this.
I mean, this is a hands on We're going to
get seriously geeky about how to win back the Second Amendment.
(17:27):
And I am planning on being there unless this stupid
coal I just pick up really gets worse. But I'll
be there, and obviously you can be there too. Like
I say, it's free. Just go to SAF dot org
and you can find out more about the Gun Rights
Policy Conference. A lot of cases that are being argued
right now. One in Illinois is fascinating because it has
(17:52):
it's before just our judged Stephen McGlenn. This is Illinois's
so called quote unquote assault weapons ban. Obviously, they're not
assault weapons. This is just a political term. Let me
be clear. Assault weapon is a political term. It's a
propaganda term. There is no such thing in existence. There's
(18:15):
simply no such thing. There is a thing called an
assault rifle that is defined by the military, and those
are select fire that is, they can go full automatic.
And then there are semi automatic firearms, which have been
around for more than one hundred years and been used
by millions of people in competition and self defense and
hunting and anything that you use guns for legally, So.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
This has been around a long time.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So anyway, Illinois, as have other states, have decided to
band these and also magazines that hold more than ten
rounds for rifles and more than fifteen rounds four handguns.
This has run its way all the way up and
then back down to Judge McGlenn who is hearing the
case again, and he's hearing it in East Saint Lewis.
(19:02):
What was interesting is at the end of all the
testimony and all the arguments, this is not a jury trial.
Just before Judge McGlenn, he brings up the nineteen seventeen
East Saint Louis race riots and the nineteen twenty one
Tulsa massacre and I did, I got it.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Met.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I did not know anything about the nineteen seventeen East
Saint Louis race riots. They call them race riots, but
in reality the blacks there were burned out and shot
by whites and law enforcement. And I many many buildings
burned to the ground. And what was interesting in this
(19:46):
case is that Judge McGlenn he reflects on how these
might have unfolded differently if black victims had had access
to the types of farms now banned under the States
so called assault weapon ban. Very interesting. And then see
(20:10):
David Siegel, who is the attorney who's arguing the case.
We've had David on the show here a number of times.
He mentions that that is really the core reason why
he's passionate about the Second Amendment. He says, quote, there's
countless stories of people victimized, whether it's for race or
their gender. And David talks about the fact that laws
(20:31):
that prohibit people from having effective means of self defense
adversely affect whether you call it minorities or targeted groups
or whatever I like. There is a fellow on X
and social media, Pepjew, and he's a Jewish man who
(20:53):
advocates for firearms and self defense. And he's got a
great T shirt and he says people with they are
is do not get in cattle cars. Pretty simple message
and I like the way it goes. All right, let's
talk to Jeffrey in Colorado Online four. Oh oh, wait
a minute, Jeffrey, you don't go anywhere, Jim says, we
(21:14):
only got a mintal left, so we're going to hold
you over the break. You don't go anywhere, So we're
going to get that because I do want to talk
about that. Also when we come back, I want to
talk about how do you or do you in fact,
tune yourself up to be ready for self defense? That
is not just going to the range and shooting. But
I do want to talk about that. When you go
(21:36):
to the range, what do you do, how do you practice?
But also how do you tune yourself up to ramp
up your awareness, to ramp up your situational awareness, what's
going on around you, to think about the possibility of
if this happens, then I will do that. Do you
use online videos, do you use writing? Do you talk
(21:57):
to other people? Do you go take actual class is
in this or do you just kind of contemplate it
or just ignore it and say, well, I'll figure it
out when it gets here. Which state. That's one way
to go to Our number eight six six Talk Gun.
I'm Tom Gresham'll be right back with more gun talk.
(22:21):
I'm back with you here. Our number is Tom Talk Gun.
Pretty easy. Tom mets me. Tom talk gun will get
you in. We're pretty much open lines if there's something
you want to talk about. This video popped up this
week unearthed from way back in two thousand and seven
when Kamala Harris was the San Francisco District Attorney and
(22:42):
she's standing there in this video next to then San
Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, and she's holding a press conference
about gun control.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And here's what she says. I you got to listen
to this. This is the quote.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Just because you leave possess a gun in the sanctity
of your locked home doesn't mean we're not going to
walk into that home and check to see if you're
being responsible and safe in the way you conduct your affairs.
(23:18):
Think about that, in the sanctity of your locked home,
we're still going to walk into your locked home. I
mean Fourth Amendment search and seizure all the rest of it.
Will church warrants forget all of that, because we want
to make sure that you are complying.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Understand in the end, that's really what they want. They
want your compliance.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
They want you to bow down, they want you to
do exactly what they say, and they are willing to
send armed people into your locked home to get your compliance.
That's two thousand and seven. We'll have more of things
that she has said and done in just a minute. First,
I want to go to lying for Jefferies with us
out of Colorado. Jeffery, thank you for your patience. You're
(24:03):
on gun talk. What's on your mind?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Hey, Tom? You've been talking a lot recently about self
defense opportunities to not shoot because of all the potential
negative clients whoqunces for yourself, and I want to get
your opinion on a little bit further down the road.
On that thought, I'm wondering if a bad guy's coming
at you with say a gun or a knife, and
(24:27):
they say, hey, I want your wallet. Now, I'm smart
enough not to try and draw and somebody that's got
a gun pointed at me, and I also know the
tuler to rule or with respect to knives. But I'm
just wondering, how do you know they're going to stop
there once you give them the wallet, or and if
an opportunity presents itself, Let's say they get temporarily distracted
(24:49):
before you give them the wallet.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
You know, do you.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
Recommend drawing in or shooting because of what might come
afterwards if the person just keeps going.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Okay, it's a great question because it allows us to
knock this around just a little bit more. If somebody's
walking up to you and appears to not have any
weapons and not have anything, you know, anything in their hands,
insteads give me your wallet, you can tell me I
don't think so go away. If they come towards you
with a knife or a gun, this is now armed robbery.
(25:23):
It's also assault with a deadly weapon. They don't have
to stab you or shoot you for it to be
assault with the deadly weapon. At that point, I am
not going to let them get close to me. I
am going to run if that's an option, you know,
evade if I if I can throw the wallet. Here's
the other part of it. If you're gonna give them
your wallet, don't hand it to them, throw it to them.
(25:47):
Maintain that distance and then okay, guess because I'm sneaky.
When they bend down to pick up the wallet would
be a really good time to draw your gun. And
if they still have a gun in their hand when
they come up with the wallet in their hand, I
would be shooting them multiple times because they have a
gun and they have, you know, committed a felony and
(26:10):
all bets are off as you to your point, how
do you know what they're going to do? You don't,
that may have decided well that's not enough, or heck,
I want to shoot you anyway, So the presence of
the gun or a presence of a knife changes everything,
and you know, you really bring up something that's interesting
is that these are continually changing situations, and they're may
(26:31):
be changing by the second, and so the situation that
you start off with may change and you may have
to alter that. And it's a really good idea to
do what you're doing, which is to think about it
and game it out and say, Okay, what if this,
what if that?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
What would I do? Then you know is there and
you're right, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Draw a guy who's holding a gun on me, But
if he turns and points a gun somewhere else or
looks away. That may mean my opportunity, but it would
really have been a good idea to practice this all lot,
so you can draw your gun and shoot.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Quickly, right, yep, for sure? Well, I mean, where do
you come down on this?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
I think, like everything else, it's highly fact dependent on
the particular situation, and it's just going to require on
my instinct is to just how far I think this
guy might go. And I don't know that there's a
set of criteria I can give you that I'm going
to run through this checklist and say, okay, if he
hits three of the four, I'm going to do this.
(27:34):
But I do have to say I am very concerned
because I hear time after time stories in the news
about carjackings where they get the car and then they
kill the driver.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Anyway, well, let me just tell you my kicking points.
When they come out with a gun or a knife,
they are well past the tipping point and all bets
are off. It is time to do whatever is necessary.
We're through wondering, you know, there's no wondering. I wonder
what they're gonna do later. I don't care you pointed
(28:04):
a gun at me. Here's the deal. I'll tell people,
what do you think a cop would do if you
pointed a gun at a cop, CoP's gonna shoot you
every single time.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, and you should be operating under the same rules.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, yeah, except for the qualified immunity that they have.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Don't care. Don't care. At that point, that becomes problem
number two. We have to get through problem number one first,
and problem with number one is staying alive right now.
And make no mistake, I don't care if it's a
gun or a knife. It is a deadly weapon, and
I am not you know, I'm gonna do whatever I
have to do, or whatever it's possible to do to
(28:45):
make sure that I don't get hurt.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
So I guess I'm I hear what you're saying, and
I can't disagree with any of that, but I guess
I'm a little unclear about what I thought I heard
you saying price in previous weeks about how if they
want your wallet, you're going to get in the wallet.
If they want your car, you're going to give in
the car. What's the difference between those two situations.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, if they want my car and I don't have
the opportunity to defend myself or if I you know,
I mean, this is gonna be an instant call on
the spot. I Am not going to subject myself to
getting shot or knifed over my car or my wallet
(29:30):
or my TV. But at the same time, if you know,
it's if somebody's walking up to me with a knife, well,
if it's a knife, I'm pulling my gun, I'm pointing
it at him and saying stop right now. They get one,
stop right now, they don't get a second one.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
That's it done.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Okay, if you's got a gun, you got a whole
different situation, just as you have alluded to, which says, okay,
now we got to be careful. Where's the point of
what you're doing. And that's where they throw the wallet
way out there to where he is. Don't let him
get close to you. Is not a bad way to go.
Just but part of this is just thinking that through.
Or can you I mean, let's just think about this
(30:09):
for a second. If you're at your car, you're outside
your car, for instance, can you just start side stepping
and get something between you and that person even when
you look at it and go that person looks sketchy.
I don't like the way he's moving. I don't like
what's going on. Get moving immediately, get something between you
(30:30):
and him, because that barrier becomes time, and time gives
you the ability to react one way or the other
whatever's appropriate for you at the time. But part of
this is thinking it through. Of I'm pumping gas and
there's some goofy guy over there. I'm going to move
to the other side of the car. I'm just gonna
get some distance till I figure out what's going on.
You know, later on you can say, well, I didn't
(30:50):
need to it didn't turn out to be anything. Okay, fine,
no harm, no foul, fair enough, Hey, let me run
to the braak here. I appreciate the call. Good conversation
if you want to continue this, if you got the
questions about what.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Would I do?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
If we certainly can knock that around. Also, I went
to the range yesterday made some more brass for this
troublesome rifle. We'll see where we go with that. Our
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Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yes, back with you here.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
It's gun talk. I'm Tom Gresham. That's you're lying to
you raised with us out Brewster, New York. Right, you're
on gun talk. What's you're thinking?
Speaker 12 (33:48):
Well, let me tell you what I'm thinking. I understand
the necessity. I'm a full court press behind Donald Chuck.
I mean, there's really no argument there. However, what many
people to get in the average presidential election, all the
(34:08):
downticket people for example maybe a United States where the
public elects the attorney general or less key appellate court
justices or even in city council people. We need to
get all the friends we can find and all the
places we can put them, because those are the people
who will graduate leaves a higher office so they get
(34:31):
their seat wet where they are and then they've got
the right mindset. And we're trying to we're trying to
change the mindset of our elected representatives and are officials.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Do you know what I'm saying, I do.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And I think along with what you're saying is you're
looking at down ballot candidates. Is informing yourself on them
and not just what they're saying. But go talk to
them because a lot of times those folks are actually
doing town halls, they're doing meetings, they're doing together at
delis with people, that type of thing. Go get off
your rear end and go talk to them and say, look,
(35:05):
and I like asking the open ended question. It's not
like you know, what are you going to do to
preserve the Second Amendment? Well, that tells them where you are.
Ask them what are you going to do about guns?
And then see where they go, because they don't know
where you are, and you want the answer to come
from them not knowing where you are on the issue.
Now you're going to get a little bit of a
(35:26):
truer feel for where they are. What are you going
to do about crime. What are you going to do
about guns? Just those kind of things as opposed to
if you've mentioned the Second Amendment, they're going to know
exactly where you are, and you're probably not going to
get a true reading out. I mean, you're going to
get the Kamala Harris. You know, well, I own a gun,
and no one's going to take care of your guns.
That we don't want to take your guns away from you. Well,
(35:46):
number one, I don't know if she owns a gun
or not. I don't care. Actually it doesn't really matter.
And yes, she absolutely positively will wants to and will
take guns away from millions of Americans because she has
pushed for a gun ban for decades. She has always
pushed for gun band She wants to ban semi automatic
(36:07):
firearms as a start. And so anyway, and that started
to make your point, right, that started way back. We
just read you this quote from two thousand and seven
when she was the district attorney of San Francisco. Once again,
to your point, when you elect a district attorney or
a city councilman, or a mayor or a sheriff, it
(36:30):
pays to know where they are on these issues. Hey,
great call, I appreciate that. And yes, I know people say, well,
what does she own it? What does she really own?
Does she really have a gun? I don't know, I
don't care. Honestly, that's a distraction. They're very good at
(36:50):
these distractions of getting you off subject. You know, of course,
I mean the main thing for you to know about
me is that you know I was born into a
middle class family. You start out every answer with that, right,
but what about this, well, I was born into the middle
class family. Actually, of fine, who cares. It's like it's
the silliest way of saying nothing, saying a lot of
(37:12):
words and saying nothing. I did read an interesting little
psychological report and I said, there's a psychological term for
what she does, and they call it the imposter syndrome.
And when I read it, it actually made a lot
of sense to me. Which is the nervous laughing, the deflection.
(37:37):
It's knowing that you're actually incompetent, that you're.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
In way over your head.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And the way you keep people from finding out or
talking about it is number one. You keep talking, don't
let them come back in with a comment, and you
deflect with the silly laughter, The nervous laughter and the
bazz are stories of you know whatever, and the idea
that she says that she and Tim Wallas are gun owners.
(38:07):
They don't want to take your guns away. Ten years ago,
she as the Attorney general in California, she certified micro
stamping as an existing technology. It was not, nor is
it now in existing technology, but by certifying it such,
she made it so that no new handguns could be
(38:28):
added to the roster, could not be sold in California.
It was the ultimate gun band simply by saying this
non existing technology was now ready for mainstream and you
couldn't sell a gun in California unless it had micro stamping.
And the gunmaker said, there's no way for us to
do it. It doesn't exist. It's her response, is not
my problem, dude, I already got my gun. Like she
(38:51):
has a gun. She has secret service. That's what she's got.
Eight six six talk gun. All right here, eighty six
six talk gun. Let's go talk with Joe. He's the
new Jersey Joe. You take somebody out of the range
(39:14):
for that.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Tom.
Speaker 13 (39:15):
This is the third new shooter in six months, and
I've come up with a new way to teach him.
What I've figured out is that they get bullseye fixation.
You know, we do the dry fire before we get
to the range and they're holding the gun. You know,
I have him hold the empty gun and pull the
trigger in their rock solid and then I get to
the range and I put up the target with a
bullseye on it, and I watched the end of the
(39:37):
gun and of course, you know, the gun is wavering,
and of course as the gun waivers over the bullseye,
they jerk the trigger because they want to put it
right in the middle of the bullseye, right, and you'll
watch the gun flinch. So the way I fixed it
with this most recent shooter, as I took the bullseye
down and I put up just a big bad guy,
you know, a big target of a bad guy that
doesn't have a defined aiming point, and I said, I
(40:00):
just want you to put it anywhere in the upper body.
Just focus on squeezing the trigger. And as soon as
I did that and took away that bullseye that they
were trying to nail that bullseye, he put a group.
You could have covered town with your hand. And as
soon as we put the bullseye back, you start to
jerk them off the paper.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
I think you got to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I'm gonna give you one other thing to try, and
this one is really fun because nobody believes it's gonna
worksure close your eyes exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I've talked about it before.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I mean, you get them all lined up, target on
you know, the guns on target, sites on target.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Say now close your eyes and just press the trigger
and just I mean literally it's like closure eyes and
then goes bang right after that, and the groups are
unbelievably small, and they'll go back and brag about, Hey,
I shot this great group with my eyes closed. But
it goes back to exactly what you're talking about. They
now have stopped trying to make the perfect shot and
(41:04):
they're working on making the perfect trigger press.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
And that's how you shoot right.
Speaker 13 (41:09):
And so my suggestion is, if you're taking a new
shooter out, the worst thing you can do is put
up a target with a bullseye on it. Uh, you know,
the less defined naming point and the better, because every time.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Look at this off of it, what would happen if
we took the target and turned it around backwards and
just had a white piece of paper.
Speaker 13 (41:29):
You know that could work too, you know that, you know,
I might give that a try again. The big sell,
you know, the big bad guy silhouettes I'm talking about
round the bad guy with the gun fills the whole
paper and he was able to put him, you know,
all all in this nice little five inch five inch
circle right in the middle where the heart would be.
(41:49):
But again, that target doesn't have a yellow or red dot.
To Amatt, so I just said, just focus on squeezing
the trigger and then I put I put the bullseye
target back in. His groups started to go to hell
against So we went back and forth a couple of times.
But well, but anyway, don't start new shooters with a
bullseye target.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Excellent, Jar, I appreciate that, and of course thank you
for the call. In typical fashion, I always think I'm
a head and I'm never ahead. Because Michelle says, we
shoot blank targets for beginners all the time. I guess
they've been doing that for a long time now. And
once again I'm thinking, hey, I've come up with something new. No,
actually haven't. Somebody else is are already doing it, and
actually it's old news. It's just new news to me
(42:31):
and that's okay because then I can pass along to
you and now it's new news to you as well.
And that is just you know, where we are with
this stuff. Is all I really do is I pick
up stuff from other people. I pass it along here.
I don't claim it as my own. I mean, it's
just every once in a while I'll think I have
come up for something new and then they find out,
yuh know, others have been doing it anyway, so it's
(42:53):
like not really new, it's just new to me. But
that's okay. I'll pass it along and you do the
same thing. You passed along that information to me as well. Hey,
when we come back, I want to talk about there's
a cool company out in Montana make it Ammo, making
more Ammo than you can believe, a lot of different
kinds of Ammo, and they're doing some really interesting stuff,
(43:16):
and I want to talk to them about, well, how
they're doing that and what Ammo they're making these days.
I also, I'll tell you about me going to the
range all by myself. It's like a week or two
before the opening season, and there's nobody out there siting
in targets. I don't understand that. Oh, well eight six
' six talk be right back.
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