December 1, 2024 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Hearing experts call for deregulation of suppressors. Matt Branch, an ENT doctor and surgeon, as well as a SWAT leader, explains the realities of gunfire and hearing loss.
-- Why you absolutely must have a suppressor on an AR-15 you keep for home defense.
-- A true tale of someone who left his essential gear in his truck and was stranded overnight in the mountains.
Gun Talk 12.01.24 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Hearing experts call for deregulation of suppressors. Matt Branch, an ENT doctor and surgeon, as well as a SWAT leader, explains the realities of gunfire and hearing loss.
-- Why you absolutely must have a suppressor on an AR-15 you keep for home defense.
-- A true tale of someone who left his essential gear in his truck and was stranded overnight in the mountains.
Gun Talk 12.01.24 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, so glad you could hang with us. I'm Tom Gresham.
This is of course gun Talk. If you want to
join us, it's pretty easy. Well, the number is anyway,
give me a call, Tom Talk Gun. How easy is that?
Give me a holler. We'll talk about guns of course,
and shooting and which gun is best and places to
go for training and it doesn't really matter. And what
(00:33):
if you don't even like guns. If you've stumbled upon
this and you're going, what is this? It's crazy people
with guns? Hey, you're perfect. Give me a call. We'll
talk about that as well. Tell me why you don't
like guns, because I'm curious. I've always wondered. I don't
understand how you don't like guns, so let me know,
all right, fair enough again, the number is eight sixty
six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun. Okay. There's a
(00:55):
renewed interest or a new interest in suppressors and silencers,
largely because the ATF has reduced the weight time it
used to be as much as a year, and now
it is like in sight of a week to two weeks,
sometimes even just a day. It's crazy. And what we
found out is it wasn't the two hundred dollars tax
(01:16):
on suppressures that was making people not want to buy one.
It was the weight. And now that the weight is gone,
people are getting them left and right. But the question
is should you have to pay two hundred dollars? Should
you have to register your suppressor? Well, there's a movement
afoot to take that regulation away. Hearing Protection Act is
(01:40):
a bill that keeps getting reintroduced into Congress to try
to wipe that out. Well, we just got some more
information about that, because we've been arguing that silencers or
suppressors really our safety devices to help protect your hearing.
Who better to talk to us about that than an NT,
a doctor, a surgeon who also happens to be a
(02:05):
SWAT Special Operations officer. We're joined by Matt branch down
in Texas. Matt, thank you so much for being here
with us.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Tom, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You bet so seriously, you are an E and T,
a surgeon, a doctor, and a SWAT officer.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I know these are things that don't usually go together.
I'm probably a unicorn in that regard.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
How in the world did that all come together?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, I've been a board certified here nos and throat
doctor here in this small Texas town, And whenever our
municipal police department was reconstituting their swat team, they were
looking for a medic. And typically the way medics come
about is they get a local fire department person who's
certified paramedics as well as a firefighter to go to
(02:50):
the police academy and then be triple certified. But at
the time, the fire chief just wasn't willing to let
one of his guys go, and so the swat guys asked, well,
who do we know who's a medical person who's also
a gun person, And that's how they got a hold
of me.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah. Can I just tell you that sounds like so
much fun.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It was a lot of fun, but it also meant
five hours of sleep a night for eight consecutive months
while I maintained my practice, you know, my family, my life,
and then went to the police academy at night. And
then when I graduated and they picked up my commission,
then I went to swat school and then the Tactical
medic school. So it wasn't easy. It's not like they
can give you a little plastic badge and say here
(03:32):
go get them fella, all these vacations are there.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, okay, so you're you're the real deal. You actually
do the thing. So let me ask you this. You
guys just put out a paper about suppressors and hearing.
You want to kind of cover that just a little
bit for us? Sure.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
The big headline is that the American Academy of Odelaryngology,
Head and Neck Surgery, which is the premier, dominant professional
society for ear, nos and throat doctors, has officially endorsed
suppressors as a public health tool for hearing protection. Now,
I don't have to tell you how many people are
exposed to a loud noises because of their job and
(04:08):
work and they have to wear ear protection. But in
the firearms industry, suppressors are a far more efficient way
to help reduce the volume of noise, the intensity, the
pressure of that sound at its source. And what we
did is present the research which I was part of
the research. I published a paper in twenty ten that
(04:28):
demonstrated the superiority of suppressors over ear level hearing protection
plugs and muffs, and when presented with the information as
well as information from the CDC, our Academy was willing
to take the step to follow the science and that
it's the official position of the American Academy votal Aernology
that suppressors should be used as a public health tool
(04:50):
to protect hearing.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And of course this position paper can and will be
used as a way to try to persuade Congress to
pass the Hearing Protection Act removing these federal restrictions the tax,
you know, the waiting period, the licensing on suppressures, to
make it easier for people to get silencers, get suppressors.
(05:12):
Explain to meet something okay from this and you can
go as geeky as you need to from the doctor
sort of things. All right, Okay, why are suppressors more efficient?
Are better at protecting hearing than even hearing protection?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, I think the best example is to think about automobiles.
Automobiles are, naturally, by the nature of their combustion engines,
incredibly loud, but we have elegantly designed from the factory
installed exhaust systems and mufflers that dramatically reduce the volume,
the intensity of that sound, and pressure. And what we're
saying is with firearms, by restricting access to suppressors, we're
(05:51):
saying it's like owning a car, removing the exhaust system,
rolling down the windows, and telling everyone that you just
put in some cotton in their ears or were some
of your protectors. It's just not efficient. Whenever you control
the volume, the intensity, the pressure of sound at its source,
you do several things. You make it a reflex. You
don't have to remember to put on ear protection if
you happen to already have a suppression stall. Plus you're
(06:13):
protecting the hearing of anyone in the direct environments or
everyone who happens to be around you. And this is
especially important when people are being taught how to use firearms,
because if you wear ear protection, you may not be
able to hear instructions clearly or follow instruction. So by
using suppression it helps to improve the efficiency of gun training,
responsible gun ownership, and again not just protecting the hearing
(06:37):
of the shooter, which is really paramount, but also everyone
in this immediate environment.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
In your work as a kN ee, int, a doctor
or surgeon, do you see much occasion of people who
have hearing loss because of loud nooises.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I can tell you that every month of my practice,
and I've been in practice going on twenty years, that
will be at least one, sometimes more than one patient
who has come in who had been in some sort
of social situation where, unbeknownst them or kind of spontaneously,
the decision was made to go shoot firearms, and because
(07:13):
they happen to be a place with a gun but
without ear protection, the patient was exposed to loud noise
and they ended up inadvertently permanently losing nerve hearing. Now,
most of the time this is you know, a measurable
loss and it's not complete deafness. Who have several accounts
of our patients, you know, who will be in a
similar situation, like their uncle took them down to the
(07:34):
creek bottom to shoot their ar fifteen and you know,
they just trusted their uncle. They went down there, and
that first shot renders them permanently deaf at least in
one ear.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Whoa. And this is even the small incremental loss of
hearing that we have. This is permanent and not recoverable,
that's right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The problem with this noise induced hearing loss is that
it results in the fracture or the breaking of the
tiny little microscopic hairs in the inner ear that are
responsible for turning off and on the nerve signal that
tells your brain that you're hearing sound. So yes, humans
are one of the many mammals that don't regrow those hairs.
So hearing loss throughout your life is cumulative and irreversible.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And to put a fine point on it, you don't
really understand it until you've gotten there, whether through this
or just with aging and losing hearing, it is life
changing when you start to lose your hearing.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
That's completely true. It's like the old songs. You don't
know what you've got until it's gone. And sometimes it's
not even just the hearing loss. It's unavoidable non stop
ringing in the ears, what we call tennedus or tandis.
Nations will come in and they'll be sort of ignorant
of the fact that they've lost hearing until we explain
to them after doing a hearing evaluation that the ringing
(08:55):
is just one of the many signs that they've lost hearing.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Wow, if you would, man, I want to get you
hold on because I want to come back and talk
about some of the applications of silencers or suppressors, and
people talk about having an AR fifteen, for example, for
home defense and the role of that. We're talking with
Matt Branch. He is a board certified e NT surgeon
as well as a special Operations Police officer that is
(09:21):
a SWAT officer. Our number here is eighty six six
Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun talk.
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Speaker 2 (11:48):
All right, beck with you. We're talking with Matt Branch.
He is a port certified doctor, physician, E and T
specialist surgeon in Texas, also a special Operations police officer
of the real deal. Before we get into some other stuff,
I did want to ask you. I had a question
think about suppressures and hearing protection and one of the
things that occurs to me, and I don't know if
(12:09):
this is true or not, but even if you've got
your plugs in, and even if you've got your muffs on,
is there a thing with what I call bone conduction
of sound going to your ear from the blast not
actually through the ear canal.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Absolutely, And this is something that you could figure intuitively.
There's a lot of consumer electronics on the market now
that utilize bone conduction, and the way that those work
is kind of have a little bit of a spring
tension so that it pushes against the bone just above
your ear, so that your ear canal is open so
you can hear the sounds around you. But then your
portable electronic device is sending vibrations through the bone in
(12:51):
causing you to hear through bone conduction and the cochleap.
So you consider what the impulse muzzle blast is doing
whenever your head is expo you know, if you're not
controlling the sound at the source, then even if you're
plugging the ear canal, and protecting the ear canal, your
whole head vibrates. And this has been born out in
a Korean study that I cite in my paper from
twenty ten about how over the course of the life
(13:14):
of these police officers in Korea they were able to show,
despite perfect use of earplugs and ear muffs, a slow
degradation of sinsory neural hearing because of this bone conduction.
So there's unless you're wearing some sort of like in
a bubble suit or something to help decrease the vibration
that comes from the impulse blast of a firearm, then
(13:36):
suppressors are really the only way of protecting yourself from
that sort of phone conduction sound.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And if people haven't experienced that, I mean back in
the old days, a lot of the old competition shooters,
pistol shooters, they wore no hearing protection at all, or
if you could believe this, they would stick a thirty
eight special piece of brass in each ear as their
hearing protection. And every one of those that I ever
(14:02):
knew was just stone deaf when they got older.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I can relate to that. My father when I was
growing up, he was a civil engineer by trade, but
on the side, back before it became too onerous, he
was a gun dealer and he also made flintlock rifles
as a hobby. And I can tell you that through
my entire life, his number one response, like kind of
family few, his number one response to anything you might
ask you.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Huh yeah, exactly, all right, So tell me this. I mean,
now you've got this interesting combination of experience, and you've
done an awful lot of training and shooting indoors with
patrol rifles with ars which are incredibly loud, I mean,
much louder than a handgun. Now you shoot one indoors.
(14:46):
I got to work on the assumption you guys have
some pressures on these guns routinely.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Absolutely, you know there's no way you could fire an
M four or a shortened We have ten inch barrels
on our air fifteens inside of an enclosure without aus presser.
And maintain your situational awareness and your hearing, not just
the long term since you're and eural loss, but also
the concussive loss that results in the immediate dampening down
of hearing that results whenever you hear a loud sound
(15:13):
that eventually gets some better. But yeah, if you're planning
on using a firearm in any enclosed space. You and
I were talking the other day about utilizing firearms inside
a vehicle for defensive purposes, and that's another situation. If
you don't have a suppressor on a patrol rifle and
you're in a patrol car or you're a DPS officer
guard in highway patrol, then if you shoot through that
(15:35):
glass that first round, after that, your situational awareness, your
hearing is just gone.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah. I mean I've done some shooting through the windshield
from inside and even with you know, plugs and muffs
doubling up, of course, And you were right we were
talking about this. You're talking about spraying glass all over.
If you're going to do this friends and neighbors, you
need wrap around lenses and you need you know, headgear
because that stuff inside that car is blowing every but
(16:00):
it is unbelievably loud, right, And that's the sort of
thing again.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
We just put this out there for your audience. These
are things that are undertaken under professional instruction. These are
done at schools that are being monitored by professionals who
have taught these sorts of things for years were certified.
This is not something I would recommend trying at home,
but yeah, this is the sort of realistic scenario that
police officers who can sometimes be ambushed in their patrol
(16:26):
vehicles have to encounter. And so we had a couple
of our officers go off to school and bring back
that knowledge and we practice it using disabled vehicles out
on our range.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, you know a lot of people, of course now
have ar pistols, So you got seven to ten inch
barrels on these things, and there I say, if you're
shooting those forget insight, even no matter where you are,
you really do need a can on them.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You know, whenever I was at
SWAT school, we were training with a group of SWAT
officers from a sheriff's department several counties away, and we
would do a two man core or clear where there's
one officer that's standing at another officer kneeling and you
come around the corner at the same time, sort of
stack to be able to get two guns in the
fight at the same time. And when we got paired
(17:10):
up with this this group of SWAT officers from the
sheriff's department they had ten inch barrels and no suppressors,
and the first round went off with that barrel right
above my head. I called time out and cease is real,
and that I'm not doing this anymore with anyone who
doesn't have a suppressor on their arm.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, because with your background, you know that each time
that thing goes off, you are actually losing a little
bit of hearing.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
That's right. That is something you cannot take back, you know.
That's you know, the genies out of the bottle. You
can't uncrack that egg. It's it's a done deal.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
If you had a chance to sit in front of
Congress and testify about the Hearing Protection Act with your
double background, what would you be telling them? All?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Right again, And this is going to be my professional opinion,
not the opinion of the American Academy of the Laryngology,
but I would say that it's important to wreckorized that
in politics, in legislation, a lot of good intention results
in sort of a sort of leftover effects, you know,
things that were never intended in the initial offering. You know,
(18:13):
whenever the NFA was put into effect in the nineteen thirties,
they were fighting a wave of crime related to organized
crime and prohibition, and so the use of short barreled rifles,
machine guns, and suppressors were all thought to be activities
of a criminal nature. And just like you know in
modern times, gun control often time is addressing the behavior
and activity of a criminal minority, but the burden is
(18:36):
handled by the law abiding citizenry. So I would say
that you know, the NFA is outdated, and that in
light of the widespread ownership, legal ownership, and responsible ownership
of suppressors, that they don't really have a place on
the NFA anymore. And that by being able to take
them off of that schedule, being able to have suppressors
(18:57):
not be registered because they're not a weapon, you know,
it is essentially a muffler that is designed in a
precise way to fit up with your particular weapon and caliber,
to prevent hearing loss, to reduce noise signature. It does
not make the firearms silent like you see in movies
that sort of thing. It just makes it safe, right right.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So, Okay, we just got numbers like a couple of
weeks ago that it looks like there have been more
than four million suppressors or silencers sold in the US,
and of course the we go with the common and
you know, not dangerous, actually talk about the opposite of
(19:37):
not dangerous or rather dangerous. These are actually helpful, and
they are safety equipment. Suppressors and silencers are safety.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Equipment, right, that's correct. I mean we're talking about a simple,
safe public health tool, a device that is meant to
without very much expense or effort, dramatically reducing a threat
to hearing. And if you think about it, the government
already has a vested interest in the hearing of its
citizenryman take OSHA for example. If you're exposed to any
(20:07):
sort of noise in the workplace that's over eighty decibels
in a forty hour week, you have to wear earing
protections mandated by the government, and they're all over your
employer to make sure that it happens. Well, what about
those same people whenever they're enjoying recreation, hunting, target shooting,
or home defense. You know, I think they're entitled to
that same responsibility.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
So to be.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Consistent, I would agree. I think that this is sort
of the next logical step in legislation.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I've said for years, Matt that IFO who was involved
in shooting suppressures would be required.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense. I mean,
if you think about it. Throughout the course of the
last fifteen or twenty years, there's a lot of accessory
selling with firearms. You know, you can buy sort of
a stripped down basic model, sort of the way that
glocks are marketed. But then there has been a more
sophisticated audience for gun buying where they buy these weapons
(20:57):
with a lot of accessories already installed, you know, with
Picatinny rails and then mlock rails, custom grips, better triggers, sites, optics,
all of these sorts of things. Now, wouldn't it just
make sense if there wasn't any sort of government control
or regulation involved, that you would sell especially any ar
that I can think of sixteen inches and lower, then
(21:19):
sell it with the device. You know, a lot of
these devices have a ratchet attached system or quick detached
system to the barrel. Just sell it with that installed
along with the suppressor, all at the same time, single
point of scale, single slide of the credit card. It
just it's a way of making it easy. What we
try to do in public health is to just make
it simple.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
For the There it is Matt Bratch. Thank you so much.
I appreciate what you do. I appreciate you share your
experience and it's always a pleasure. We'll get you back
on here before too long.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
All right, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Time, Take care, sir. Fascinating discussion from a doctor who
specializes in hearing and earstuff. And it's also a SWAT officer.
Do you have a suppressor now? You got to give
me a call let me know how it changed your
experience in shooting. We'll be right back with more gun talk.
(22:22):
You know, we just spent several minutes talking with an
expert about suppressors and silencers and how they are a
health issue and how they can help your health. And
there's no doubt about it. And I'm just looking at this.
We've got a lot of Black Friday sales going on
right now, but our friends over at Silence or Central
have a buy one, get one free deal on suppressors.
(22:47):
You buy one of their silencers and you get their
twenty two rim fire suppressor for free. It's a Black
Friday sale deal. I'm not sure how long it's going
to run. I know it runs.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
Well.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Let's see if promotion starts blah blah blah. Oh it
goes to December thirty one, so our wild supplies last Ooh,
there's the sticky wicket. I would go to Silencercentral dot
com treat yourself to a silencer and get a free silencer.
Why you're at it, and these folks make it really
(23:19):
really easy to hold your hand through the process and
they'll eave it offer financing, so it's a pretty cool
deal and they make really good suppressors as well. Their
silencers are very good. Silencercentral dot Com for the buy one,
get one free. Are you seeing any other cool Black
Friday deals out there right now? I've just I've been
getting lots of emails from different folks and it's amazing
(23:41):
the deals. There's some crazy stuff going on, and you
know you can't something. You just can't pass it up.
When you get forty percent off on things that you
were going to buy anyway or you've been looking for,
you just got to dive into it. But the buy one,
get one free is the best thing I have seen
out there. You get a free suppressor for your twenty
two and oh, by the way, if you've not shot
a suppressed twenty two ri in fire. You're in for
(24:04):
a treat on a pistol. It is so quiet, it's
unbelievable if you're using standard velocity, ammo. It's stupidly quiet
and tons of fun and a great way to introduce
anybody into shooting where you have almost zero recoil and
almost zero noise. So there you go. Hey Andrew, I
(24:26):
want to get you on the air here. I appreciate
your patients call it out of Pennsylvania. How can we
help you today, sir?
Speaker 8 (24:34):
Yes, yes, I loved your last guest, and I just
had a question for you regarding something else. But I
had just recently bought a Keystone cricket. It's a twenty
two long rifle. Twenty two in a long rifle, and
I happened to be in a gun store. I saw
one of these things. I think it was an alloy model,
and I just thought I need that thing. It was
cheap and I bought it the kind of marketing for youth.
(24:57):
And it's a single shot, so I had the intentions
of letting my grand son shoot the thing. But I'm
gonna talk softly here for a second. But any rate,
the thing is not very safe. You pull the folk
the bolt back, and when you pull the boat back
to shoot the thing you are there's only one way
(25:20):
to on leaders either pull the trigger or or hold
on to the release the bolt.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, you got to hold on to that cocking piece. Yeah,
because you got to cock it by pulling the bolt
back manually and then release. You got to hold on
to it. I share your concern with the system. I
am familiar with the cricket system, and I understand that
make some really cool little bitty rifles I have always had. Uhh,
(25:48):
I think you're being quiet because somebody young can hear
what you're talking about as far as a gift for somebody. Oh, oh,
you're in the woods.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
What I'm in the woods? What you dear? Just walk by?
Okay they're gone.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now, Oh what are you doing calling us when you're
out hunting?
Speaker 8 (26:07):
Well, I love to watch your show. I just had
this question, and normally I'm not it's just like call,
but I did today, so it's all good. But my
real question was thinking all the manufacturers. If someone make
like a replacement bolt, it seems like I be real
simple to have a different fold in there or something.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't know of anything like that. I will just
say there are a number of companies that make really
good youth twenty two rifles that do not use that system.
And you know, I'm not trying to woof on Cricket
or Keystone. It's just not a system I'm crazy about.
(26:48):
For the reasons that you've expressed. I've always had concerns
about that, and there are a lot of others out
there you and I'm not going to tell you what
to do, but I just you may want to look
at some alternatives. I know you already bought it. I
get at but you may want to look at some alternatives.
How's that? Yep?
Speaker 8 (27:04):
Yeah, I understand. It was a cheap guy. That's why
I bought it, like one hundred and fifty bucks. And
it was real nice and single shot, and I thought, oh,
I kind of bought it quicker than I should have.
But I like the gun. It's it's accurate, it's real nice.
Except for that simple fact of if for some reason
they're in ready to shoot and inside they don't have
to or don't want to, you've got to do that
(27:25):
unsafe for a young person.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yep, I understand. I mean, I hear what you're saying.
So you know there. Like as I said, there's a
lot of them out there. You know, Ruger's got them,
Mosburg's got them, a lot of different ones. You can
you can actually Jim saying, hey, you can get a
different rifle for less than you would pay to retrofit
this thing. And I don't know anybody retrofits it anyway,
(27:48):
So I think you're going to be back on the
market looking for something else. Hey, And by the way,
good luck on the deer hunting. I'm sorry if we
screwed up those deer coming back.
Speaker 8 (27:57):
Yeah, just timing, wasn't there. It was all string of them.
But I didn't see a buck, so it was good.
It was just do.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Doesn't that figure? You're you're on the radio, you're talking
to me and you're hunting, and all of a sudden
here you know, they weren't there. They weren't there, and
as soon as you get on the air, here they are, right.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
Yeah, yeah, right, it's all good.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
All right, So.
Speaker 8 (28:18):
I'm glad I got to talk to you guy. I
want to ask that question, see what you would know
about it.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So all right, thanks Andrew. I appreciate the call. Eight
six six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun. Obviously we're
open lines. We'll talk about just darn near anything. If
you've got a range report you want to share, by
all means, let's do that. And also, if you were
to talk about suppressors, either telling me about yours or
you got a question about them, give me a holler,
we'll see if we can help out.
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Speaker 2 (31:01):
Okay, we're costing Jim a lot of money. Well, actually
not really that much money as I think about it.
By during the break, we're over on the Silence for
Central website and I'm looking at he wants to get
a thirty cal suppressor and getting to get the free
one for US twenty two. It's a heck of a deal.
Buy one, get one free on suppressures. Pretty cool. Let's
go to line five. Jake's with us out of Colorado. Hey, Jake,
(31:24):
how can we help you? Sir?
Speaker 12 (31:26):
Well, sir, good to talk to you. I spoke with
you a few weeks ago about another item, But I
was listening to your guests about the suppressors, which I
don't quite understand. We use a cold sixty nine twenty
LR in a sixteen and twenty in sparrow, and a
lot of the younger guys know all about those and
(31:47):
I don't. So my concern or question is can it
reduced my BDC at three to five hundred yards? Sometimes
we'll shoot that way.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay, I'm not sure I'm understanding. What what are you
talking about as far as reducing your drop?
Speaker 12 (32:10):
Well, in a two two, three or five five six,
we found with a larger with a higher twist barrel,
if you go with a larger green bullet and stock,
it'll just blow itself apart before you get to four
or five hundred yards. And normally we use a you know,
(32:33):
a thirty cow you know in that But if you
use it two two three, what could you gain and
reduce the bullet drop at longer distances than three, say,
from three to five hundred yards on a cold sixteen
ninety twenty.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Okay, if you've got to be using let's just say
twenty inch barrel, I mean that rees that matter. The
difference between twenty and sixteen inch barrel. The drop in
velocity is called it thirty feet per second per inch
four inches one and twenty feet per second. It's not
that big a deal. If you want to shoot at say,
(33:08):
call it five hundred and six hundred yards, you probably
need to go to a little heavier bullet, which is
going to require a faster twist rate. But a lot
of the ars now are coming with a one in
seven one and seven half inch twist rate anyway, and
that will stabilize the longer bullets that have a higher
ballistic coefficient. And that's what you're really talk about, is
having a higher BC on these bullets. That does not
(33:31):
reduce the drop when you going from a fifty five
or fifty grain bullet necessarily, but it really does reduce
the wind drift, and that can be a big deal.
Does that help it all?
Speaker 12 (33:44):
It does, but we're experiencing with no end is that
at six hundred at a standard off the shelf factory
round that it's dropping about maybe fourteen inches a hundred.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Kind of depends on how you got it sided in.
I mean that could be these but you'd have to
be sided in at like four hundred yards to have
that little amount.
Speaker 12 (34:08):
Yeacause you're going to didn't train that way, Okay, Okay, yep,
we use Leopold you know, really high end scopes. Love those,
And I was a little bit deflated because I'm used
to a larger caliber in that particular weapon, and I
used two two three and it just didn't have the
(34:31):
truancy on that long shot.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, okay, I see where you're going. Here's the reality
is you're using a much lighter bullet, you know, two
two three versus a three h eight. You're not going
to have anywhere near the energy delivered. You just can't
because it starts out with a lot less energy and
there's just no way for it to be comparable at
all at six hundred yards. I mean, that's that just
(34:57):
I mean, and you know the drill. That's why typically
your police sniper uses a three o eight and not
a two two three, right, it's right, Yeah, I mean
that that's just the reality. Yes, you could hit targets
out there. But now if we're moving from just hitting
to actually delivering energy, a heavier bullet going roughly the
(35:18):
same speed is always going to be better. Where they
say a bigger boxer is always going to be a
smaller boxer. It's just how it is, and that's where
we are here, and that's why the three thirty eight
lapoua is such a hammer out there. You've got a
big bullet moving fast, so it's delivering the energy. So
I don't know, you gain something with an AR two
(35:40):
two three or five five six. You got less recoil,
you've got more AMMO and a mag you've got a
few other things. But if I got to shoot something
and anchored at six hundred yards, I'm going three to
eight every single time. Yeah, So a.
Speaker 12 (35:54):
Sixty nine are colt out of a stock factory with
a really nice scope. I found that about three hundred
and fifty is about it for energy for impact After
that four hundred six hundred yards, basically you're going to
put a hold something.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
But not much exactly. I think you're on the money now,
and you can target shoot out there, and people do
that all the time with five five six ars and
they do really well target shooting. But you're just punching
holes in paper. But if you're trying to anchor a buck,
or if you are, you know, a sniper trying to
anchor an opponent or an enemy out there, then you're
(36:33):
just generally not going to have the energy, Jake, I
appreciate the call, Sir. I got to move on to
grab the Gordon out of Michigan line for Gordon, you're
on gun Talk. How can I help you?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Hey, good to talk to you.
Speaker 13 (36:45):
I've I want to do a little hunting with my son,
and I've got a three hundred win mag that I
typically use is a little big for him. So we're
going to try to use the AR fifteen five five
six man right now. We've got open sites on it.
I'd like they'll get a some sort of optic on
their forum. Typically ranges here in Michigan are you know,
(37:07):
you know, thirty to eighty yards at.
Speaker 14 (37:09):
Most, you know, thick brush kind of.
Speaker 13 (37:11):
But I just don't want to spend a ton of money,
but I want something that you know, helps him get
on the target and then maybe get a gude clean
shot off with that.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Sure, So what do spend a.
Speaker 13 (37:21):
Ton of money?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, you know, I would get a low powered variable scope,
something like a one to five, one to six if
you could find something like that. We just had the
guy from Right On Optics on here, and they make
some really good affordable scopes. Right On Optics are I
O N Optics. They've got a three to nine that's
(37:45):
retail ho it's two hundred and fifty bucks, probably sells
for under two hundred dollars out there. Drop something like
that on there. And the other part here is if
you're going to use an AR for deer hunting, you've
got to use the right ammo. Typically a lot of
is either full metal jacket or its varmint bullets. But
if you use something like with oh, Black Hill's ammunition
(38:08):
has some AMMO and it's loaded with Barnes bullets, that
is good AMMO for deer hunting. So if you can
find that anything with Barnes bullets in it, it really
takes advantage of those structurally sound bullets. It works really well.
That's a good I think. I like the way you're
going to like the way you're thinking. Ar particularly with
a collapsible stock, you can adjust it to the size
(38:29):
of a young shooter has almost no recoil. Gets you
a scope on there, and I think it's gonna be
good to go. That's gonna work just fine. Good luck
with that, Gordon to appreciate that. Yeah, I know some
people say, oh, two two three is not big enough
for dear, Yes it is. Use a good bullet, put
in the right place. Sharpen your knife. It's all over.
(38:49):
You got venison on the ground and you need to
heat up the skillet and get ready because I love
me some venison chilling. There you go, be right back. Hey,
just a reminder. Ryan was on earlier. He was telling
(39:10):
people to sign up for the mailing list from range
Ready Studios because they're going to have some of these experiences.
They are going to be one of the kind things
where you get to come up here or come down
here from wherever you are and take a class and
shoot a gun that doesn't exist. This brand spanking new
just been introduced, and in some cases you go home
with the gun. So go to rains readystudios dot com
(39:32):
and sign up for the email list because by the
time they get posted to the website. Some of these
classes are already full and you're going to miss out.
All right, let's go to line five branch with us
out of Utah. Brant talk to me about el Hunning.
Speaker 14 (39:45):
Well, Tom, I have quite an experience. I ended up
spending twenty four hours in the woods. I had a
half gallon canteen with me, but that wasn't quite enough.
I left my life straw in my backpack before a wheeler,
and I learned that if you don't have it on you,
you probably won't have it with you when.
Speaker 12 (40:07):
You need it.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
So what happened? How did you end up out there
for twenty four hours?
Speaker 14 (40:14):
Well, apparently they changed the trail a little bit. I
didn't familiarize myself for I got out there late, okay,
dark on me. I had my flashlight with me, but
you didn't have enough water. I didn't have enough water,
and there was water there, but I didn't there drink
(40:34):
it without a life straw, and so I was a
little dehydrated before I got back to the truck.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
And for those who don't understand what we're talking about,
a life straw is basically a straw you can use
that filters water. You can find you a little source
of water stream or anything and suck that water up
and you can keep going. And they waited nothing, and
you throw them in your pack and we all carry
them around with us in the just in case things.
Because let me just tell you, when we're walking around
these mountains like i'd in Idaho and you're doing in Utah,
(41:02):
getting dehydrated is dangerous.
Speaker 8 (41:07):
It sure is.
Speaker 14 (41:08):
Like I said, I have my pack in the four wheeler,
but from now on it's gonna be on my belt.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Well, I hear you, you know, and I will tell
you I don't even go even on a short hike
without my backpack on anymore, because I've got my game
bags in there. I've got my knives, I've got you know,
all the stuff I need if I have to pack
something out and cut it up and pack it out.
But also i've got my emergency gear. I've got my
garment in reach, emergency radio. I've got my life straw obviously,
(41:34):
got water with electrolytes in it. And yeah, it ends
up weighing something, but you know, and I usually have well,
I've got a couple of space blankets in it. I
got some signaling stuff. It's just like that old if
you don't have it, you I mean, if you don't
have it with you, you could and it can actually
put you in danger of dying out there. I know
(41:56):
you probably had that thought while you're out there brand.
Speaker 14 (41:59):
Yeah, I thought crossed my mind, but I don't think
I was ever in too much danger. But it could
have easily gone that way if the conditions would have
been different.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Right, did you have fire building stuff with you?
Speaker 14 (42:14):
And I was in my backpack too, but it didn't
get cold that night?
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Well, yeah, you're lucky, because, yeah, you get a night
where it drops down to freezing or below and you
don't you can't build a fire, you don't have shelter,
and you don't have your straw, and you're in serious trouble.
So you know, look, I appreciate the call. I appreciate
you sharing that with people. It's like everything else, it's
that just in case stuff. It's you know, why have
I been carrying two, yes, two firearms with me recently?
(42:42):
I don't know that I will ever need even one.
I don't know that I would ever need two, But
I don't know that I'm not gonna need them and
I do know how to use them, and so yeah,
of course I'm also the guy that carries a turn
to kit and carries all that other stuff I was
talking about in my pack. It's serious stuff. If you
weren't talking about how to save your life and the
things you need to carry with you and on you
(43:05):
give you a call, we'll add that to the after show.
Right now eight six ' six talk gun or Tom
talk gun. In the meantime, think about grabbing a suppressor.
That buy one get one free deal right now going
on right now from Silencer Central, and it's crazy. Silencers
are a good idea. They are a health item, as
we discussed today, Go oud do some shooting, take a
friend with you, take advantage of some of those Black
(43:27):
Friday deals by Amo. Always a good idea to buy,
have a I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun Talking.
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, so glad you could hang with us. I'm Tom Gresham.
This is of course gun Talk. If you want to
join us, it's pretty easy. Well, the number is anyway,
give me a call, Tom Talk Gun. How easy is that?
Give me a holler. We'll talk about guns of course,
and shooting and which gun is best and places to
go for training and it doesn't really matter. And what
(00:33):
if you don't even like guns. If you've stumbled upon
this and you're going, what is this? It's crazy people
with guns? Hey, you're perfect. Give me a call. We'll
talk about that as well. Tell me why you don't
like guns, because I'm curious. I've always wondered. I don't
understand how you don't like guns, so let me know,
all right, fair enough again, the number is eight sixty
six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun. Okay. There's a
(00:55):
renewed interest or a new interest in suppressors and silencers,
largely because the ATF has reduced the weight time it
used to be as much as a year, and now
it is like in sight of a week to two weeks,
sometimes even just a day. It's crazy. And what we
found out is it wasn't the two hundred dollars tax
(01:16):
on suppressures that was making people not want to buy one.
It was the weight. And now that the weight is gone,
people are getting them left and right. But the question
is should you have to pay two hundred dollars? Should
you have to register your suppressor? Well, there's a movement
afoot to take that regulation away. Hearing Protection Act is
(01:40):
a bill that keeps getting reintroduced into Congress to try
to wipe that out. Well, we just got some more
information about that, because we've been arguing that silencers or
suppressors really our safety devices to help protect your hearing.
Who better to talk to us about that than an NT,
a doctor, a surgeon who also happens to be a
(02:05):
SWAT Special Operations officer. We're joined by Matt branch down
in Texas. Matt, thank you so much for being here
with us.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Tom, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You bet so seriously, you are an E and T,
a surgeon, a doctor, and a SWAT officer.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I know these are things that don't usually go together.
I'm probably a unicorn in that regard.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
How in the world did that all come together?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, I've been a board certified here nos and throat
doctor here in this small Texas town, And whenever our
municipal police department was reconstituting their swat team, they were
looking for a medic. And typically the way medics come
about is they get a local fire department person who's
certified paramedics as well as a firefighter to go to
(02:50):
the police academy and then be triple certified. But at
the time, the fire chief just wasn't willing to let
one of his guys go, and so the swat guys asked, well,
who do we know who's a medical person who's also
a gun person, And that's how they got a hold
of me.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah. Can I just tell you that sounds like so
much fun.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It was a lot of fun, but it also meant
five hours of sleep a night for eight consecutive months
while I maintained my practice, you know, my family, my life,
and then went to the police academy at night. And
then when I graduated and they picked up my commission,
then I went to swat school and then the Tactical
medic school. So it wasn't easy. It's not like they
can give you a little plastic badge and say here
(03:32):
go get them fella, all these vacations are there.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, okay, so you're you're the real deal. You actually
do the thing. So let me ask you this. You
guys just put out a paper about suppressors and hearing.
You want to kind of cover that just a little
bit for us? Sure.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
The big headline is that the American Academy of Odelaryngology,
Head and Neck Surgery, which is the premier, dominant professional
society for ear, nos and throat doctors, has officially endorsed
suppressors as a public health tool for hearing protection. Now,
I don't have to tell you how many people are
exposed to a loud noises because of their job and
(04:08):
work and they have to wear ear protection. But in
the firearms industry, suppressors are a far more efficient way
to help reduce the volume of noise, the intensity, the
pressure of that sound at its source. And what we
did is present the research which I was part of
the research. I published a paper in twenty ten that
(04:28):
demonstrated the superiority of suppressors over ear level hearing protection
plugs and muffs, and when presented with the information as
well as information from the CDC, our Academy was willing
to take the step to follow the science and that
it's the official position of the American Academy votal Aernology
that suppressors should be used as a public health tool
(04:50):
to protect hearing.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And of course this position paper can and will be
used as a way to try to persuade Congress to
pass the Hearing Protection Act removing these federal restrictions the tax,
you know, the waiting period, the licensing on suppressures, to
make it easier for people to get silencers, get suppressors.
(05:12):
Explain to meet something okay from this and you can
go as geeky as you need to from the doctor
sort of things. All right, Okay, why are suppressors more efficient?
Are better at protecting hearing than even hearing protection?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, I think the best example is to think about automobiles.
Automobiles are, naturally, by the nature of their combustion engines,
incredibly loud, but we have elegantly designed from the factory
installed exhaust systems and mufflers that dramatically reduce the volume,
the intensity of that sound, and pressure. And what we're
saying is with firearms, by restricting access to suppressors, we're
(05:51):
saying it's like owning a car, removing the exhaust system,
rolling down the windows, and telling everyone that you just
put in some cotton in their ears or were some
of your protectors. It's just not efficient. Whenever you control
the volume, the intensity, the pressure of sound at its source,
you do several things. You make it a reflex. You
don't have to remember to put on ear protection if
you happen to already have a suppression stall. Plus you're
(06:13):
protecting the hearing of anyone in the direct environments or
everyone who happens to be around you. And this is
especially important when people are being taught how to use firearms,
because if you wear ear protection, you may not be
able to hear instructions clearly or follow instruction. So by
using suppression it helps to improve the efficiency of gun training,
responsible gun ownership, and again not just protecting the hearing
(06:37):
of the shooter, which is really paramount, but also everyone
in this immediate environment.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
In your work as a kN ee, int, a doctor
or surgeon, do you see much occasion of people who
have hearing loss because of loud nooises.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I can tell you that every month of my practice,
and I've been in practice going on twenty years, that
will be at least one, sometimes more than one patient
who has come in who had been in some sort
of social situation where, unbeknownst them or kind of spontaneously,
the decision was made to go shoot firearms, and because
(07:13):
they happen to be a place with a gun but
without ear protection, the patient was exposed to loud noise
and they ended up inadvertently permanently losing nerve hearing. Now,
most of the time this is you know, a measurable
loss and it's not complete deafness. Who have several accounts
of our patients, you know, who will be in a
similar situation, like their uncle took them down to the
(07:34):
creek bottom to shoot their ar fifteen and you know,
they just trusted their uncle. They went down there, and
that first shot renders them permanently deaf at least in
one ear.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Whoa. And this is even the small incremental loss of
hearing that we have. This is permanent and not recoverable,
that's right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The problem with this noise induced hearing loss is that
it results in the fracture or the breaking of the
tiny little microscopic hairs in the inner ear that are
responsible for turning off and on the nerve signal that
tells your brain that you're hearing sound. So yes, humans
are one of the many mammals that don't regrow those hairs.
So hearing loss throughout your life is cumulative and irreversible.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And to put a fine point on it, you don't
really understand it until you've gotten there, whether through this
or just with aging and losing hearing, it is life
changing when you start to lose your hearing.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
That's completely true. It's like the old songs. You don't
know what you've got until it's gone. And sometimes it's
not even just the hearing loss. It's unavoidable non stop
ringing in the ears, what we call tennedus or tandis.
Nations will come in and they'll be sort of ignorant
of the fact that they've lost hearing until we explain
to them after doing a hearing evaluation that the ringing
(08:55):
is just one of the many signs that they've lost hearing.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Wow, if you would, man, I want to get you
hold on because I want to come back and talk
about some of the applications of silencers or suppressors, and
people talk about having an AR fifteen, for example, for
home defense and the role of that. We're talking with
Matt Branch. He is a board certified e NT surgeon
as well as a special Operations Police officer that is
(09:21):
a SWAT officer. Our number here is eighty six six
Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun talk.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
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Speaker 2 (11:48):
All right, beck with you. We're talking with Matt Branch.
He is a port certified doctor, physician, E and T
specialist surgeon in Texas, also a special Operations police officer
of the real deal. Before we get into some other stuff,
I did want to ask you. I had a question
think about suppressures and hearing protection and one of the
things that occurs to me, and I don't know if
(12:09):
this is true or not, but even if you've got
your plugs in, and even if you've got your muffs on,
is there a thing with what I call bone conduction
of sound going to your ear from the blast not
actually through the ear canal.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Absolutely, And this is something that you could figure intuitively.
There's a lot of consumer electronics on the market now
that utilize bone conduction, and the way that those work
is kind of have a little bit of a spring
tension so that it pushes against the bone just above
your ear, so that your ear canal is open so
you can hear the sounds around you. But then your
portable electronic device is sending vibrations through the bone in
(12:51):
causing you to hear through bone conduction and the cochleap.
So you consider what the impulse muzzle blast is doing
whenever your head is expo you know, if you're not
controlling the sound at the source, then even if you're
plugging the ear canal, and protecting the ear canal, your
whole head vibrates. And this has been born out in
a Korean study that I cite in my paper from
twenty ten about how over the course of the life
(13:14):
of these police officers in Korea they were able to show,
despite perfect use of earplugs and ear muffs, a slow
degradation of sinsory neural hearing because of this bone conduction.
So there's unless you're wearing some sort of like in
a bubble suit or something to help decrease the vibration
that comes from the impulse blast of a firearm, then
(13:36):
suppressors are really the only way of protecting yourself from
that sort of phone conduction sound.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And if people haven't experienced that, I mean back in
the old days, a lot of the old competition shooters,
pistol shooters, they wore no hearing protection at all, or
if you could believe this, they would stick a thirty
eight special piece of brass in each ear as their
hearing protection. And every one of those that I ever
(14:02):
knew was just stone deaf when they got older.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I can relate to that. My father when I was
growing up, he was a civil engineer by trade, but
on the side, back before it became too onerous, he
was a gun dealer and he also made flintlock rifles
as a hobby. And I can tell you that through
my entire life, his number one response, like kind of
family few, his number one response to anything you might
ask you.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Huh yeah, exactly, all right, So tell me this. I mean,
now you've got this interesting combination of experience, and you've
done an awful lot of training and shooting indoors with
patrol rifles with ars which are incredibly loud, I mean,
much louder than a handgun. Now you shoot one indoors.
(14:46):
I got to work on the assumption you guys have
some pressures on these guns routinely.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Absolutely, you know there's no way you could fire an
M four or a shortened We have ten inch barrels
on our air fifteens inside of an enclosure without aus presser.
And maintain your situational awareness and your hearing, not just
the long term since you're and eural loss, but also
the concussive loss that results in the immediate dampening down
of hearing that results whenever you hear a loud sound
(15:13):
that eventually gets some better. But yeah, if you're planning
on using a firearm in any enclosed space. You and
I were talking the other day about utilizing firearms inside
a vehicle for defensive purposes, and that's another situation. If
you don't have a suppressor on a patrol rifle and
you're in a patrol car or you're a DPS officer
guard in highway patrol, then if you shoot through that
(15:35):
glass that first round, after that, your situational awareness, your
hearing is just gone.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah. I mean I've done some shooting through the windshield
from inside and even with you know, plugs and muffs
doubling up, of course, And you were right we were
talking about this. You're talking about spraying glass all over.
If you're going to do this friends and neighbors, you
need wrap around lenses and you need you know, headgear
because that stuff inside that car is blowing every but
(16:00):
it is unbelievably loud, right, And that's the sort of
thing again.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
We just put this out there for your audience. These
are things that are undertaken under professional instruction. These are
done at schools that are being monitored by professionals who
have taught these sorts of things for years were certified.
This is not something I would recommend trying at home,
but yeah, this is the sort of realistic scenario that
police officers who can sometimes be ambushed in their patrol
(16:26):
vehicles have to encounter. And so we had a couple
of our officers go off to school and bring back
that knowledge and we practice it using disabled vehicles out
on our range.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, you know a lot of people, of course now
have ar pistols, So you got seven to ten inch
barrels on these things, and there I say, if you're
shooting those forget insight, even no matter where you are,
you really do need a can on them.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You know, whenever I was at
SWAT school, we were training with a group of SWAT
officers from a sheriff's department several counties away, and we
would do a two man core or clear where there's
one officer that's standing at another officer kneeling and you
come around the corner at the same time, sort of
stack to be able to get two guns in the
fight at the same time. And when we got paired
(17:10):
up with this this group of SWAT officers from the
sheriff's department they had ten inch barrels and no suppressors,
and the first round went off with that barrel right
above my head. I called time out and cease is real,
and that I'm not doing this anymore with anyone who
doesn't have a suppressor on their arm.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, because with your background, you know that each time
that thing goes off, you are actually losing a little
bit of hearing.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
That's right. That is something you cannot take back, you know.
That's you know, the genies out of the bottle. You
can't uncrack that egg. It's it's a done deal.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
If you had a chance to sit in front of
Congress and testify about the Hearing Protection Act with your
double background, what would you be telling them? All?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Right again, And this is going to be my professional opinion,
not the opinion of the American Academy of the Laryngology,
but I would say that it's important to wreckorized that
in politics, in legislation, a lot of good intention results
in sort of a sort of leftover effects, you know,
things that were never intended in the initial offering. You know,
(18:13):
whenever the NFA was put into effect in the nineteen thirties,
they were fighting a wave of crime related to organized
crime and prohibition, and so the use of short barreled rifles,
machine guns, and suppressors were all thought to be activities
of a criminal nature. And just like you know in
modern times, gun control often time is addressing the behavior
and activity of a criminal minority, but the burden is
(18:36):
handled by the law abiding citizenry. So I would say
that you know, the NFA is outdated, and that in
light of the widespread ownership, legal ownership, and responsible ownership
of suppressors, that they don't really have a place on
the NFA anymore. And that by being able to take
them off of that schedule, being able to have suppressors
(18:57):
not be registered because they're not a weapon, you know,
it is essentially a muffler that is designed in a
precise way to fit up with your particular weapon and caliber,
to prevent hearing loss, to reduce noise signature. It does
not make the firearms silent like you see in movies
that sort of thing. It just makes it safe, right right.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So, Okay, we just got numbers like a couple of
weeks ago that it looks like there have been more
than four million suppressors or silencers sold in the US,
and of course the we go with the common and
you know, not dangerous, actually talk about the opposite of
(19:37):
not dangerous or rather dangerous. These are actually helpful, and
they are safety equipment. Suppressors and silencers are safety.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Equipment, right, that's correct. I mean we're talking about a simple,
safe public health tool, a device that is meant to
without very much expense or effort, dramatically reducing a threat
to hearing. And if you think about it, the government
already has a vested interest in the hearing of its
citizenryman take OSHA for example. If you're exposed to any
(20:07):
sort of noise in the workplace that's over eighty decibels
in a forty hour week, you have to wear earing
protections mandated by the government, and they're all over your
employer to make sure that it happens. Well, what about
those same people whenever they're enjoying recreation, hunting, target shooting,
or home defense. You know, I think they're entitled to
that same responsibility.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
So to be.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Consistent, I would agree. I think that this is sort
of the next logical step in legislation.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I've said for years, Matt that IFO who was involved
in shooting suppressures would be required.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense. I mean,
if you think about it. Throughout the course of the
last fifteen or twenty years, there's a lot of accessory
selling with firearms. You know, you can buy sort of
a stripped down basic model, sort of the way that
glocks are marketed. But then there has been a more
sophisticated audience for gun buying where they buy these weapons
(20:57):
with a lot of accessories already installed, you know, with
Picatinny rails and then mlock rails, custom grips, better triggers, sites, optics,
all of these sorts of things. Now, wouldn't it just
make sense if there wasn't any sort of government control
or regulation involved, that you would sell especially any ar
that I can think of sixteen inches and lower, then
(21:19):
sell it with the device. You know, a lot of
these devices have a ratchet attached system or quick detached
system to the barrel. Just sell it with that installed
along with the suppressor, all at the same time, single
point of scale, single slide of the credit card. It
just it's a way of making it easy. What we
try to do in public health is to just make
it simple.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
For the There it is Matt Bratch. Thank you so much.
I appreciate what you do. I appreciate you share your
experience and it's always a pleasure. We'll get you back
on here before too long.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
All right, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Time, Take care, sir. Fascinating discussion from a doctor who
specializes in hearing and earstuff. And it's also a SWAT officer.
Do you have a suppressor now? You got to give
me a call let me know how it changed your
experience in shooting. We'll be right back with more gun talk.
(22:22):
You know, we just spent several minutes talking with an
expert about suppressors and silencers and how they are a
health issue and how they can help your health. And
there's no doubt about it. And I'm just looking at this.
We've got a lot of Black Friday sales going on
right now, but our friends over at Silence or Central
have a buy one, get one free deal on suppressors.
(22:47):
You buy one of their silencers and you get their
twenty two rim fire suppressor for free. It's a Black
Friday sale deal. I'm not sure how long it's going
to run. I know it runs.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
Well.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Let's see if promotion starts blah blah blah. Oh it
goes to December thirty one, so our wild supplies last Ooh,
there's the sticky wicket. I would go to Silencercentral dot
com treat yourself to a silencer and get a free silencer.
Why you're at it, and these folks make it really
(23:19):
really easy to hold your hand through the process and
they'll eave it offer financing, so it's a pretty cool
deal and they make really good suppressors as well. Their
silencers are very good. Silencercentral dot Com for the buy one,
get one free. Are you seeing any other cool Black
Friday deals out there right now? I've just I've been
getting lots of emails from different folks and it's amazing
(23:41):
the deals. There's some crazy stuff going on, and you
know you can't something. You just can't pass it up.
When you get forty percent off on things that you
were going to buy anyway or you've been looking for,
you just got to dive into it. But the buy one,
get one free is the best thing I have seen
out there. You get a free suppressor for your twenty
two and oh, by the way, if you've not shot
a suppressed twenty two ri in fire. You're in for
(24:04):
a treat on a pistol. It is so quiet, it's
unbelievable if you're using standard velocity, ammo. It's stupidly quiet
and tons of fun and a great way to introduce
anybody into shooting where you have almost zero recoil and
almost zero noise. So there you go. Hey Andrew, I
(24:26):
want to get you on the air here. I appreciate
your patients call it out of Pennsylvania. How can we
help you today, sir?
Speaker 8 (24:34):
Yes, yes, I loved your last guest, and I just
had a question for you regarding something else. But I
had just recently bought a Keystone cricket. It's a twenty
two long rifle. Twenty two in a long rifle, and
I happened to be in a gun store. I saw
one of these things. I think it was an alloy model,
and I just thought I need that thing. It was
cheap and I bought it the kind of marketing for youth.
(24:57):
And it's a single shot, so I had the intentions
of letting my grand son shoot the thing. But I'm
gonna talk softly here for a second. But any rate,
the thing is not very safe. You pull the folk
the bolt back, and when you pull the boat back
to shoot the thing you are there's only one way
(25:20):
to on leaders either pull the trigger or or hold
on to the release the bolt.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, you got to hold on to that cocking piece. Yeah,
because you got to cock it by pulling the bolt
back manually and then release. You got to hold on
to it. I share your concern with the system. I
am familiar with the cricket system, and I understand that
make some really cool little bitty rifles I have always had. Uhh,
(25:48):
I think you're being quiet because somebody young can hear
what you're talking about as far as a gift for somebody. Oh, oh,
you're in the woods.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
What I'm in the woods? What you dear? Just walk by?
Okay they're gone.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now, Oh what are you doing calling us when you're
out hunting?
Speaker 8 (26:07):
Well, I love to watch your show. I just had
this question, and normally I'm not it's just like call,
but I did today, so it's all good. But my
real question was thinking all the manufacturers. If someone make
like a replacement bolt, it seems like I be real
simple to have a different fold in there or something.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't know of anything like that. I will just
say there are a number of companies that make really
good youth twenty two rifles that do not use that system.
And you know, I'm not trying to woof on Cricket
or Keystone. It's just not a system I'm crazy about.
(26:48):
For the reasons that you've expressed. I've always had concerns
about that, and there are a lot of others out
there you and I'm not going to tell you what
to do, but I just you may want to look
at some alternatives. I know you already bought it. I
get at but you may want to look at some alternatives.
How's that? Yep?
Speaker 8 (27:04):
Yeah, I understand. It was a cheap guy. That's why
I bought it, like one hundred and fifty bucks. And
it was real nice and single shot, and I thought, oh,
I kind of bought it quicker than I should have.
But I like the gun. It's it's accurate, it's real nice.
Except for that simple fact of if for some reason
they're in ready to shoot and inside they don't have
to or don't want to, you've got to do that
(27:25):
unsafe for a young person.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yep, I understand. I mean, I hear what you're saying.
So you know there. Like as I said, there's a
lot of them out there. You know, Ruger's got them,
Mosburg's got them, a lot of different ones. You can
you can actually Jim saying, hey, you can get a
different rifle for less than you would pay to retrofit
this thing. And I don't know anybody retrofits it anyway,
(27:48):
So I think you're going to be back on the
market looking for something else. Hey, And by the way,
good luck on the deer hunting. I'm sorry if we
screwed up those deer coming back.
Speaker 8 (27:57):
Yeah, just timing, wasn't there. It was all string of them.
But I didn't see a buck, so it was good.
It was just do.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Doesn't that figure? You're you're on the radio, you're talking
to me and you're hunting, and all of a sudden
here you know, they weren't there. They weren't there, and
as soon as you get on the air, here they are, right.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
Yeah, yeah, right, it's all good.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
All right, So.
Speaker 8 (28:18):
I'm glad I got to talk to you guy. I
want to ask that question, see what you would know
about it.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So all right, thanks Andrew. I appreciate the call. Eight
six six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun. Obviously we're
open lines. We'll talk about just darn near anything. If
you've got a range report you want to share, by
all means, let's do that. And also, if you were
to talk about suppressors, either telling me about yours or
you got a question about them, give me a holler,
we'll see if we can help out.
Speaker 9 (28:53):
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Speaker 7 (29:52):
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Speaker 11 (30:21):
Silencer Centrals Buy one Get one promotion is happening right now.
Here's how it works. Shop online or over the phone
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(30:43):
get one at Silencercentral dot com. That's Silencercentral dot com.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Okay, we're costing Jim a lot of money. Well, actually
not really that much money as I think about it.
By during the break, we're over on the Silence for
Central website and I'm looking at he wants to get
a thirty cal suppressor and getting to get the free
one for US twenty two. It's a heck of a deal.
Buy one, get one free on suppressures. Pretty cool. Let's
go to line five. Jake's with us out of Colorado. Hey, Jake,
(31:24):
how can we help you? Sir?
Speaker 12 (31:26):
Well, sir, good to talk to you. I spoke with
you a few weeks ago about another item, But I
was listening to your guests about the suppressors, which I
don't quite understand. We use a cold sixty nine twenty
LR in a sixteen and twenty in sparrow, and a
lot of the younger guys know all about those and
(31:47):
I don't. So my concern or question is can it
reduced my BDC at three to five hundred yards? Sometimes
we'll shoot that way.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay, I'm not sure I'm understanding. What what are you
talking about as far as reducing your drop?
Speaker 12 (32:10):
Well, in a two two, three or five five six,
we found with a larger with a higher twist barrel,
if you go with a larger green bullet and stock,
it'll just blow itself apart before you get to four
or five hundred yards. And normally we use a you know,
(32:33):
a thirty cow you know in that But if you
use it two two three, what could you gain and
reduce the bullet drop at longer distances than three, say,
from three to five hundred yards on a cold sixteen
ninety twenty.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Okay, if you've got to be using let's just say
twenty inch barrel, I mean that rees that matter. The
difference between twenty and sixteen inch barrel. The drop in
velocity is called it thirty feet per second per inch
four inches one and twenty feet per second. It's not
that big a deal. If you want to shoot at say,
(33:08):
call it five hundred and six hundred yards, you probably
need to go to a little heavier bullet, which is
going to require a faster twist rate. But a lot
of the ars now are coming with a one in
seven one and seven half inch twist rate anyway, and
that will stabilize the longer bullets that have a higher
ballistic coefficient. And that's what you're really talk about, is
having a higher BC on these bullets. That does not
(33:31):
reduce the drop when you going from a fifty five
or fifty grain bullet necessarily, but it really does reduce
the wind drift, and that can be a big deal.
Does that help it all?
Speaker 12 (33:44):
It does, but we're experiencing with no end is that
at six hundred at a standard off the shelf factory
round that it's dropping about maybe fourteen inches a hundred.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Kind of depends on how you got it sided in.
I mean that could be these but you'd have to
be sided in at like four hundred yards to have
that little amount.
Speaker 12 (34:08):
Yeacause you're going to didn't train that way, Okay, Okay, yep,
we use Leopold you know, really high end scopes. Love those,
And I was a little bit deflated because I'm used
to a larger caliber in that particular weapon, and I
used two two three and it just didn't have the
(34:31):
truancy on that long shot.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, okay, I see where you're going. Here's the reality
is you're using a much lighter bullet, you know, two
two three versus a three h eight. You're not going
to have anywhere near the energy delivered. You just can't
because it starts out with a lot less energy and
there's just no way for it to be comparable at
all at six hundred yards. I mean, that's that just
(34:57):
I mean, and you know the drill. That's why typically
your police sniper uses a three o eight and not
a two two three, right, it's right, Yeah, I mean
that that's just the reality. Yes, you could hit targets
out there. But now if we're moving from just hitting
to actually delivering energy, a heavier bullet going roughly the
(35:18):
same speed is always going to be better. Where they
say a bigger boxer is always going to be a
smaller boxer. It's just how it is, and that's where
we are here, and that's why the three thirty eight
lapoua is such a hammer out there. You've got a
big bullet moving fast, so it's delivering the energy. So
I don't know, you gain something with an AR two
(35:40):
two three or five five six. You got less recoil,
you've got more AMMO and a mag you've got a
few other things. But if I got to shoot something
and anchored at six hundred yards, I'm going three to
eight every single time. Yeah, So a.
Speaker 12 (35:54):
Sixty nine are colt out of a stock factory with
a really nice scope. I found that about three hundred
and fifty is about it for energy for impact After
that four hundred six hundred yards, basically you're going to
put a hold something.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
But not much exactly. I think you're on the money now,
and you can target shoot out there, and people do
that all the time with five five six ars and
they do really well target shooting. But you're just punching
holes in paper. But if you're trying to anchor a buck,
or if you are, you know, a sniper trying to
anchor an opponent or an enemy out there, then you're
(36:33):
just generally not going to have the energy, Jake, I
appreciate the call, Sir. I got to move on to
grab the Gordon out of Michigan line for Gordon, you're
on gun Talk. How can I help you?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Hey, good to talk to you.
Speaker 13 (36:45):
I've I want to do a little hunting with my son,
and I've got a three hundred win mag that I
typically use is a little big for him. So we're
going to try to use the AR fifteen five five
six man right now. We've got open sites on it.
I'd like they'll get a some sort of optic on
their forum. Typically ranges here in Michigan are you know,
(37:07):
you know, thirty to eighty yards at.
Speaker 14 (37:09):
Most, you know, thick brush kind of.
Speaker 13 (37:11):
But I just don't want to spend a ton of money,
but I want something that you know, helps him get
on the target and then maybe get a gude clean
shot off with that.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Sure, So what do spend a.
Speaker 13 (37:21):
Ton of money?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, you know, I would get a low powered variable scope,
something like a one to five, one to six if
you could find something like that. We just had the
guy from Right On Optics on here, and they make
some really good affordable scopes. Right On Optics are I
O N Optics. They've got a three to nine that's
(37:45):
retail ho it's two hundred and fifty bucks, probably sells
for under two hundred dollars out there. Drop something like
that on there. And the other part here is if
you're going to use an AR for deer hunting, you've
got to use the right ammo. Typically a lot of
is either full metal jacket or its varmint bullets. But
if you use something like with oh, Black Hill's ammunition
(38:08):
has some AMMO and it's loaded with Barnes bullets, that
is good AMMO for deer hunting. So if you can
find that anything with Barnes bullets in it, it really
takes advantage of those structurally sound bullets. It works really well.
That's a good I think. I like the way you're
going to like the way you're thinking. Ar particularly with
a collapsible stock, you can adjust it to the size
(38:29):
of a young shooter has almost no recoil. Gets you
a scope on there, and I think it's gonna be
good to go. That's gonna work just fine. Good luck
with that, Gordon to appreciate that. Yeah, I know some
people say, oh, two two three is not big enough
for dear, Yes it is. Use a good bullet, put
in the right place. Sharpen your knife. It's all over.
(38:49):
You got venison on the ground and you need to
heat up the skillet and get ready because I love
me some venison chilling. There you go, be right back. Hey,
just a reminder. Ryan was on earlier. He was telling
(39:10):
people to sign up for the mailing list from range
Ready Studios because they're going to have some of these experiences.
They are going to be one of the kind things
where you get to come up here or come down
here from wherever you are and take a class and
shoot a gun that doesn't exist. This brand spanking new
just been introduced, and in some cases you go home
with the gun. So go to rains readystudios dot com
(39:32):
and sign up for the email list because by the
time they get posted to the website. Some of these
classes are already full and you're going to miss out.
All right, let's go to line five branch with us
out of Utah. Brant talk to me about el Hunning.
Speaker 14 (39:45):
Well, Tom, I have quite an experience. I ended up
spending twenty four hours in the woods. I had a
half gallon canteen with me, but that wasn't quite enough.
I left my life straw in my backpack before a wheeler,
and I learned that if you don't have it on you,
you probably won't have it with you when.
Speaker 12 (40:07):
You need it.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
So what happened? How did you end up out there
for twenty four hours?
Speaker 14 (40:14):
Well, apparently they changed the trail a little bit. I
didn't familiarize myself for I got out there late, okay,
dark on me. I had my flashlight with me, but
you didn't have enough water. I didn't have enough water,
and there was water there, but I didn't there drink
(40:34):
it without a life straw, and so I was a
little dehydrated before I got back to the truck.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
And for those who don't understand what we're talking about,
a life straw is basically a straw you can use
that filters water. You can find you a little source
of water stream or anything and suck that water up
and you can keep going. And they waited nothing, and
you throw them in your pack and we all carry
them around with us in the just in case things.
Because let me just tell you, when we're walking around
these mountains like i'd in Idaho and you're doing in Utah,
(41:02):
getting dehydrated is dangerous.
Speaker 8 (41:07):
It sure is.
Speaker 14 (41:08):
Like I said, I have my pack in the four wheeler,
but from now on it's gonna be on my belt.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Well, I hear you, you know, and I will tell
you I don't even go even on a short hike
without my backpack on anymore, because I've got my game
bags in there. I've got my knives, I've got you know,
all the stuff I need if I have to pack
something out and cut it up and pack it out.
But also i've got my emergency gear. I've got my
garment in reach, emergency radio. I've got my life straw obviously,
(41:34):
got water with electrolytes in it. And yeah, it ends
up weighing something, but you know, and I usually have well,
I've got a couple of space blankets in it. I
got some signaling stuff. It's just like that old if
you don't have it, you I mean, if you don't
have it with you, you could and it can actually
put you in danger of dying out there. I know
(41:56):
you probably had that thought while you're out there brand.
Speaker 14 (41:59):
Yeah, I thought crossed my mind, but I don't think
I was ever in too much danger. But it could
have easily gone that way if the conditions would have
been different.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Right, did you have fire building stuff with you?
Speaker 14 (42:14):
And I was in my backpack too, but it didn't
get cold that night?
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Well, yeah, you're lucky, because, yeah, you get a night
where it drops down to freezing or below and you
don't you can't build a fire, you don't have shelter,
and you don't have your straw, and you're in serious trouble.
So you know, look, I appreciate the call. I appreciate
you sharing that with people. It's like everything else, it's
that just in case stuff. It's you know, why have
I been carrying two, yes, two firearms with me recently?
(42:42):
I don't know that I will ever need even one.
I don't know that I would ever need two, But
I don't know that I'm not gonna need them and
I do know how to use them, and so yeah,
of course I'm also the guy that carries a turn
to kit and carries all that other stuff I was
talking about in my pack. It's serious stuff. If you
weren't talking about how to save your life and the
things you need to carry with you and on you
(43:05):
give you a call, we'll add that to the after show.
Right now eight six ' six talk gun or Tom
talk gun. In the meantime, think about grabbing a suppressor.
That buy one get one free deal right now going
on right now from Silencer Central, and it's crazy. Silencers
are a good idea. They are a health item, as
we discussed today, Go oud do some shooting, take a
friend with you, take advantage of some of those Black
(43:27):
Friday deals by Amo. Always a good idea to buy,
have a I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun Talking.
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