In This Hour:
-- A new hunting rifle cartridge that features much higher internal pressures and higher velocity marks a turn for the ammunition industry. Mike Holmes, from Federal, runs down what this is and how it came about.
-- The reformers have taken charge at the NRA.
-- What's so special about the Winchester .270 cartridge after 100 years?
Gun Talk 01.12.25 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- A new hunting rifle cartridge that features much higher internal pressures and higher velocity marks a turn for the ammunition industry. Mike Holmes, from Federal, runs down what this is and how it came about.
-- The reformers have taken charge at the NRA.
-- What's so special about the Winchester .270 cartridge after 100 years?
Gun Talk 01.12.25 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you own a gun or I have ever thought
of buying a gun, you're in the right place. Tom
Gresham's Gun Talk is the original, the largest, and the
most respected national broadcast about guns, shooting, personal protection, and
the defense of the Second Amendment. Doesn't matter if you've
been shooting for years or if you're a beginner. Tom
can help. Just call Tom right now at Tom Talk
(00:24):
Gun Now. Here's Tom.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
The Ruger LC Carvine is the ultimate range companion Chea
gern In five seven twenty eight is fun to shoot
and low recoiling, a folding stock and collapsible sites making compact.
Learn more at Ruger dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Holy cal what a rollercoaster ride we have had this
week and this coming week. Oh yeah, by the way,
I'm Tom mc greshaman. This is Gun Talk. Glad that
you could be with us. We have, oh wow, so
much to talk about this week. Crazy stuff going on.
We have the US Supreme Court considering taking up Second
AMENDMIC cases. We'll have some news about what happened on
(01:08):
that on Friday. We've got the good news and the
bad news. I guess is where we were looking at
on that one. We have maybe something that's changing the
firearms industry, certainly the ammunition industry, but I think rifles
and cartridges and amo going on with some new and
some old for us to talk about. We have some
(01:29):
really interesting things on the Second Amendment front going on
the state of Colorado and Michigan also trying to get
into their last licks while they can to pass really
repressive gun control laws. Will have updates on that, and
of course, as always, we're going to have your calls,
your questions, the range reports. If you've been out to
the range doing a little shooting, we would love to
(01:51):
know about that. And of course in this twenty twenty
five we are celebrating the one hunt anniversary or birthday
if you prefer, of the famous and very much celebrated
and very effective still to this day rifle cartridge, the
two seventy Winchester, of course, made famous or maybe more
(02:14):
popular by Jack O'Connor, the gun writer. It still works
great after one hundred years. Is there any reason to change? Well? Yeah, wait,
did you hear what just came out this week? Because
there's some really interesting things being done, and we very well,
and this is not an exaggeration, we very well may
(02:36):
be entering a new era when it comes to rifle cartridges.
So there you go. If you want to join us.
Of course, the phone number is same as it always is.
Give me a call Tom Talk Gun, pretty easy, just
Tom Talk Gun. We'll get you in here and we'll
chat about your guns, your m O or anything else
you want to chat about. If you don't like guns, heck,
we'll move you to the front of the line and
(02:56):
you can tell me why. Fair enough, All right, all right,
let's talk about what just happened. I knew this was coming.
I actually got to shoot this cartridge a while back.
We did a video on it. Joining me right now
to explain what this is is Mike Holmes from Federal Cartridge. Hey, Mike,
welcome here and many if you guys got something new,
(03:18):
and you know, usually it's like, ah, yeah, fine, it's
another finish, it's another thing. This is really new, isn't.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
It it is. We're really excited about it, and you know,
we look at this as as a way to kind
of change the game, kind of level up what ammunition
can do from a performance standpoint.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
All right, it is the seven millimeter backcountry cartridge. When
you just look at it, it looks like a two
eddy riminton cartridge. It looks like you're thirty out six
size cartridge and it's in a seven millimeter or to
eighty four. It doesn't really look different until you start
getting into it. But well, first of all, let's back up.
(03:59):
Why what's the why on this? Why what's the need
that's being addressed here?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Well, over the last you know, a few years, really
the market is wanted to go to lighter, more compact,
short barreled rifles, you know, easier to maneuver. Suppressors have been,
you know, skyrocketing. Everybody is is migrating towards suppressors and
hunting with them. And when you have a long twenty
(04:29):
four inch barrel and you put a seven inch suppressor
on there, you know a lot of times it gets
it gets kind of unwieldy when you're walking through the woods,
when you're trying to be quiet in a blind, or
you know, UTVs and things like that. So the market's
you know, really wanting to go shorter, more compact. Well,
(04:49):
but what happens when you go shorter is you lose velocity.
And so what you see is this debate like what
cartridge should I use in my short barreled rifle to
give me the best performance while I'm hunting. And that's
what we set out to do with the seven millimeters
back country is really answer that need and give hunters
(05:12):
a chance to have magnum velocities out of their short
bailed rifle.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Okay, so what we're really trying to do is accommodate
shorter barrels. And I mean, anybody that knows much about
this understands that when you start shortening the barrel of
your rifle while you start losing velocity. Okay, but we
still want to maintain velocity. So we're going we still
want to use a short barrel, but we want to
keep our magnum velocity. And there's really well, there's several
(05:39):
ways to do that. One, of course, you go to
the big magnum cartridge. The other, of course, is the
time tested, proven method of pulling the trigger harder.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Or or you can increase the pressure the internal pressure
inside the cartridge case, which by the way, handler have
been trying to do forever and it's not a safe
way to go with our traditional cartion s.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Fair enough, that is fair.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
You know, brass case has been around a long time,
and it is. It is a fantastic case material and
has worked great for you know what we've needed it
to do. As we're you know, advancing and going forward
and trying to you know, get higher performance out of
shorter barrels, we found we have to look for different
materials to use to get the pressures up and do
(06:31):
it in a safe manner. And that's really the hero
of seven back Country is the what we call the
peak alloy case, and it's a steel alloy case that's
been in development for you know, over five years and
lots of testing, lots of development, lots of uh, just
(06:51):
work has been put into this to really find the
right solution that allows us to safely handle the higher
pressures giving us the magnum velocities and still have a
functionality and also keep it in a one case too
for ease of manufacturing.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Mike, didn't this development, this technology come out of the
military contract where the military is trying to go to
higher pressures or higher velocities out of shorter barrels.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, looking for you know, the there's you know, the
military is looking for going you know, getting more performance
out of shorter barrels in advancing. They're always looking to advance,
and that's a lot of where all of this stem from.
And so you know, we've been working on this. The
engineers kind of took that need and you know, like
I said, I've been working on this for over five
years really in just developing and kind of perfecting this.
(07:43):
And so as we look at the market and we go, well,
there's a consumer need here, and we've got a technology
now that we're comfortable with and ready to introduce, it
makes sense to use this to answer a need that
really I think people were wondering if it was solvable.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
One of my favorite activities and I had no We
have never talked about this. It's got to be one
of yours too. It's when a new cartridge or a
new thing is introduced, especially cartridges to watch on the internet.
Of all the people who have never seen it, never
shot it, know nothing about it, telling us all the
reasons why we don't need it, it won't work, and
(08:23):
it's just stupid. And I just laugh at all this
internet chatter going on with people who I've shot it.
I understand, but I mean, and they're saying I've never
seen it, never shot it, But let me tell you
all about it. Right.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Oh yeah, there's you know, there's all kinds of feedback
that we're getting and I appreciate it. I love the
energy that the market displays and the passion that people have,
So I love the debate. And you know, we're going
to work to answer a lot of those questions and
kind of speculation that's out there. We've got a lot
(08:58):
of content, lots of material to training. We'll take that
feedback and we'll answer those questions as we go forward.
But we're really excited about this. This is an advancement
that you know, I think the industry needs, and you know,
we're excited about it.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
What you're really getting is magnum performance out of a
non magnum case by virtue of having higher internal pressures.
But you're only able to do because you've got this
steel alloy case. Oh by the way, is it in
fact reloadable?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
It is reloadable, and that's the unique thing. This is not,
you know, like when you think of steelcase that's been
around for a long time, this is different.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
This is a high.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Performance steel alloy that in many respects acts like brass.
So we are able to reload this case and you know,
we'll have you instructions and we'll have some reload data
and some of that stuff up on our website as
we as we go forward, you know, working with reloading
(09:59):
company these on having dies and things.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Ready to go.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
So it is reloadable, and that's you know, usually one
of the top three questions that will get will be
you know, is it reloadable? And and it certainly is.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
One of the things that people keep saying is that
in your material Federal says, well, you're getting higher performance
and higher velocities or state of velocities with shorter barrels,
but with less recoil. And people say, well, that's not possible,
because if the bullet's going the same speed and the
rifle ways the same, the recoil's got to be the same.
And they're leaving out that you're not using these heavier
(10:35):
powder charges you have in these great, big magnum cases,
and that reduces the total payload going out the barrel.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
That is true. That is a factor that you know,
it's easy to miss, is the amount of a propellant
that's used is a factor in the recoil calculations. And
so we're using a significantly less amount of propellant to
do what we're doing here. And so when you run
the numbers on the mass on just recoil and you're
(11:08):
getting about the same number as what you would get
with a seven PRC. So you know, we've done a
lot of recoil testing with this. The first thing that
we did when we did this, we took US seven
O eight and had it at standard pressures, and then
we had our alloy case and peak alloy case loaded
up to eighty thousand psid and we shoot one after
(11:30):
the other. And we had several people doing this and
you couldn't tell you could mix them up and you
couldn't tell which one was which, and so we really
kind of knew we were onto something there. We did
the same thing at a customer summit where we had
a number of customers out and we choose twenty eight
nozzle or seven PRC seven back country and have them
(11:50):
all shoot them together and just sense the recoil impulse
and you know it's.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Right there.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It's not excessive recoil. And that's what people think of
when they think of high pressure.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Hey, Mike, can I get you a hold on the secondary?
I got several more questions, but I gotta take a break.
Are you okay with that? Yeah? Absolutely, okay, let's do
that when we come back. There's other things I want
to know about. The more I learned about the seven
millimeters back country carts just bran new carters from Federal,
the more questions I have about it. I'm sure you
do too, So the world try to fill in some
(12:22):
of those blanks when we come back. I'm Tom Greshaman.
This is gun Talk.
Speaker 7 (12:37):
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Speaker 3 (14:58):
Hey, we're talking with Mike Holmes from Federal Cartridge. They've
got a brand new rifle cartridge out called the seven
milimeters back Country. It's not like just another flavor. This
is new technology traditionally, Well, let's go back to regular
brass cartridges. The two seventy Winchester introduced one hundred years
ago still sets the bar. And what the highest psi
(15:22):
is allowed under Sammy Spex at sixty five thousand psi.
The new cartridge, Mike, seven milimeters back Country, you're at
eighty thousand psi. I have so many questions. Number one
is can regular rifle makers just rechamber for this? And
are the rifles actions and the barrels strong enough?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah in most cases.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
You know the beauty of the peak iloy cases that
it really acts like a pressure vessel and so it
doesn't have that elasticity that a brass case has. And
it also interacts with the chamber wall in a more
robust way. So what the rifle actually sees from a
(16:06):
bolt force, that force coming back on the bolt is
the same with our eighty thousand psi peak alloy case
as it is with you know, a sixty sixty five
thousand psi case brass case. And so that's kind of
where we settled on. The eighty thousand number was that
it's very you know, the rifles have been handling that
(16:31):
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
What I think I just heard you say is that
you in testing could go higher than eighty thousand psi.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Oh certainly, yep, absolutely certainly, And we and we have
in a number of cases just right you know where
we're at right now and what we're trying to accomplish.
Eighty thousand is the number that, you know, we really
settled on, and that's where we're going.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
So if somebody like the militaries said yeah, but we
need something really special, they can do something that other
people can't do. You could create one hundred hundred and
twenty thousand psi cartridge that we work at, a special
gun made for them, not available to us. But I'm
just thinking way out there, Star wars kind of stuff.
There's no telling what you guys are doing.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Sure, yep, there's I mean, there's a lot of there's
a lot of things that we can do, and that's
what we're excited about. You know, this is really just
the beginning.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Could this technology find its way down to handgun cartridges.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
It's I mean it's possible. You know, there's you know,
we've we've got we've kicked around the ideas of a
number of different things and ways that we could go
with this this technology. So you know, we've we're looking
at how we roadmap this out over the next number
of years, and you know, where the technology can fit needs.
(17:52):
You know, that's the thing is you want to you
want to solve the need that is out there in
the marketplace that that isn't being handled today.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Is this the future of rifle cartridges? You know it?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Uh, Like I said again, if where it fits and
answers a need, it certainly it certainly is. You know,
Like that's it's kind of like we look at this
as kind of like a you know, one of those
kind of game changing things when you go from black
powder to smoke its powder, that's a level up, you know,
this This case technology allows us to level up performance
(18:29):
and you know it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Will other animal companies be able to license this and
load it or is this something that only federal can do?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Yeah, well, you know, right now, it's a patented proprietary
cartridge case material. There's I'm sure there's other ways to
solve things that that we're doing right now, but we're
certainly we want to support the market, do the best
we can, and we'll work with other companies as as
we go forward, and as you know, they want to
(19:02):
get into this kind of game as well.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right off the bat, you're able to work with a lot.
There are a lot of rifle companies that have already
announced they're going to be chambering for the seven back country. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
I think we're up over eighty models now with Yeah,
it's over a dozen different companies and they're they're coming
on all along. I got to say the rifle manufacturers
have been just wonderful to work with, very supportive, helped
out a lot with testing and just getting guns out
in the field for people to shoot.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
And work with.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And it's just been a really a great collaboration with
the gun companies and partners.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
We're talking with Mike Holmes from Federal Charters. Uh, if
you would, Mike just kind of run down you got
what four loadings right off the bat in the seven
back country.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yeah, there's there's actually five. There's two loads in our
terminal Ascent, which is really are federal made hunting bullet.
It's a robust, bonded hunting bullet, really sleek, high highbc's
designed to be, you know, a robust bonded bullet, but
also upset at long range. So we've got a unique
(20:15):
tip design in there, internal and external skyting on the bullet,
so it really it's it's an all range, awesome hunting bullet.
We've got that in one hundred and seventy grains as
well as one hundred and fifty five grain. And one
interesting thing about the one to fifty five is if
you were to get a sixteen inch barrel rifle shooting
(20:37):
this one to fifty five, we've got just over three
thousand feet per second out of it. So that's another
option if you wanted to go even shorter with your barrel.
We have four The heaviest thing that we're offering is
one hundred and ninety five grain Burger Elite Hunter and
(20:57):
so that's the highest BC bullet. That's aero point seven
five five G one B So that yeah, that's amazing.
So we're excited about that one. We also have for
monolithic copper people led free people, we have one hundred
and sixty eight Green Barnes LRX. And then we also
just introduced fusion tip last year in a lineup of cartridges,
(21:22):
and we're going to do that one as well in
one hundred and seventy five grain.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
All right, last question, I got to get to my
other break here is this available right now? Can people
go out and buy the ammo, start buying rifles chambers
from the seven milimeter back country?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yes, I've heard that there are rifles at some dealers already.
The ammunition, the first ammunition going out will be our
fusion tipped offering, and that is in our warehouse right now.
So if you went out today, I'm not sure, but
certainly within the next week or two you certainly can.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
That is terrific, Mike, This is very exciting stuff. I
think we're turning in a corner, and not that we're
going to stop having our old traditional cartridges, because they
really are great new work. But this is something new
and different and for people who want those short barrels,
particularly using suppressors, this is exciting stuff. Well done.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Thank you appreciate it, and thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
You bet you take care. Appreciate that, Mike. Yeah, and
just a little bit, we're gonna have an actual field report,
a range report of somebody like on our staff who
last week shot an ELK with the seven millimeter backcountry. Yeah,
we get them before everybody else doff. That's part of
the funt of it. Also, you go on YouTube look
under gun talk. You could see me shooting it and
(22:37):
giving you my impressions of it. So that's pretty deep.
What do you think of this eight six ' six
talk gun? Would you buy it? Wow? That's pretty exciting stuff.
New cartoons from Federal new technology. Higher pressure's considerably higher
(23:01):
pressures depending on where you're starting at sixty or sixty
five thousand, you look at twenty three to thirty percent
increase in pressures. Ultimately, what that new cartridge does It
lets you keep your magnum cartridge velocity, but do it
in a shorter barrel. I mean that's really what it is. Now.
(23:25):
I know what you're thinking you're ahead of me, all right,
you think, well, what if I wanted to keep the
long barrel, Well, then you'd have more velocity, wouldn't you, Yes,
you would, so a couple of ways to go there.
It also, and here's something that nobody I have not
seen a single person mentioned other than me and the
video I did on this cartridge, and that is with
magnum cartridges. And I don't care if they're the ones
(23:47):
with the belts on them, like the seven mags, three
hundred mag Win mag or the non belted fat cartridges
like the prcs. You have a fatter cartridge, that means
you have reduced capacity in the magazine of your rifle.
When you go with the seven millimeter backcountry, you have
(24:08):
a cartridge case that's the same diameter as a thirty
out six case. I mean it looks like a thirty
out six or two eighty or two seventy. What that's
going to give you is want, depending on the rifle,
one or two more rounds in the magazine. Well is
that important? I don't know. I mean we hunt with
single shots. It's where it's not important. But if you said, yeah,
(24:31):
but I'd really like to have one or two more
rounds in my gun. This is going to give you
that magnum performance without having to go to the fat
body magnum cartridge, which reduces the capacity the number of
rounds in your gun. So there's a bonus that to
this point, I don't think anybody is talking about. At least,
one of the first things I thought of when I
(24:52):
saw this, we'll talk a little bit more about that
is to go along where we have second of politics
going on right now, certainly a lot of and I
was going to bring this up, a lot of things
going on at the NRA, but actually Mark just called
in out of Illinois with a question about what's going
on at the NRA. So Mark, you have the floor.
How can we help you?
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (25:13):
Tom Dick Fairburn, And I don't know if you know
him or not. He announced on his YouTube channel last
year that he was apparently initially he was trying to
get a petition to get him put on the put
on for the NRA board, but apparently he's been nominated.
(25:35):
He still says that he is a reform candidate and
the other thing, and I don't remember his exact wording
of this, but essentially he was saying that no matter
how daunting the task may be, it would be a
bad thing if the NRA fell by the wayside, and
that we need to reform the NRA and try to
(25:55):
salvage it. I believe we're not too far from the
point in time when they when they send out the
UH send out the American rifle and with the Board.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Of Director, yeah, the ballots to be coming out. Here's
what I know. Yes, there is a real reform effort.
There's going to be a slate of reform candidates. And
I am pretty sure when you get your magazine, next
to the ballot, maybe even wrapped around this ballot that
has inserted in the magazine, will be a full page
(26:29):
or a two page spread. That's Buzzmills, a gun site
who is one of the board members, is putting together
with their recommended recommendations of who to vote for. And
I would say everybody on that list is who I
would vote for. If Buzz Mills says these are the
real reform candidates, not the phony ones that are claiming
(26:52):
they're the you know, I would just look when you
get your magazine, look for that. I guess it's gonna
be like an ad they have paid for in the
magazine to put in their their slate of performed candidates
from Buzz Mills, that's who I would vote for.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Okay, all right, thank you you bet.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I appreciate it. Good good question. And we're gonna get
Buzz on the show in a week or so. Speaking
of upcoming shows, we have the Shot Show coming up.
It starts I'm really a week from today, officially the
Tuesday afterward, but we'll be at shooting ranges on Sunday
and Monday before Shot Show in Vegas. Typically, in the
(27:31):
old days, you know, up to maybe fifteen twenty years ago,
gun makers but everybody in the industry, they would wait
until Shot Show to introduce new product, and we would
wait till Shot Show and then we'd find out what
the new things are. And some of us knew ahead
of time, but you had to hold on to that information. Obviously,
(27:52):
from our last guest, companies are not waiting for that anymore,
and there are a ton of new things being introduced.
Obviously we get some of that information, we put it out.
There's another source that I would recommend if you said,
I'm just interested in knowing what's going on, the Shooting Wire.
If you go to shooting wire dot com you can
sign up. It's a free newsletter, an email newsletter you
(28:15):
get from our friend Jim Shepherd, and he has the
outdoor Wire, the Shooting Wire, and the dealer Wire and
other wires out there, but the Shooting Wire will give
you information. Basically, he gets all the news releases and
puts them out and it's a pretty good source of
information as well. Obviously, you should be getting all of
our podcasts from gun Talk, where we have all sorts
of new things going on. We have videos going out
(28:37):
all the time because we're getting all this new product
out all the time, whether it's optics, pistols, rifles, shotguns, amo,
whatever it is. We're taking it out to the range
and doing videos on it so we can give you
a lot of times. It's not like a detailed look
at it. It's a first look of here's what it is,
(28:58):
here's how it shoots, here's kind of our first impressions,
if you will. And that's what I did with the
sub milinter back Country. I shot it, shot it through
the chronograph and then kind of gave my thoughts on
where this fits and what it does for you. Here's
the question people are gonna ask, well, do I need
to do this?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Probably not, is the answer. Is it cool? Yeah? Is
it exciting innovation? Absolutely? Do you need it now? You
need a one hundred year old cartridge or one hundred
and fifty year old cartridge, I don't care. Shoot what
you want, hunt with what you want. Toward that end,
we have right now the one hundred year anniversary of
(29:42):
the two seventy Winchester cartridge. Nineteen twenty five. It was introduced,
and it set the standard, and that has been the
standard for one hundred years of the highest pressure allowed
under the specifications of Sammy SAMI Sporting Arms and Ammunition
Manufacturer's Institute, so sixty five thousand psi. Other cartridges so
(30:07):
thirty out six or less than that, three or eight
less than that, but two seventy is right up there.
It's one hundred years old, but it's still really good.
Here's a fun exercise if you're really into this stuff,
get your ballistic tables out or your app or go online, whatever,
(30:30):
and start looking up the downrange performance of the two
seventy Winchester versus other modern hunting cartridges. What you're gonna
find is that out to about five hundred yards, there's
very little difference. And I don't care if you're talking
(30:51):
about a cartridge that has creed More in the name,
or PRC in the name, or whatever magnum in the name.
Out to about five hundred yards, it doesn't matter that
the higher BC bullets really start to pay off, and
you don't really have those in the two seventy. But
if you're like me, where you're gonna limit your shots
to four hundred or under, doesn't matter. The two seventy
will do whatever you want. It's still a great cartridge.
(31:14):
I've killed two deer with two seventy, one fifty five
years ago and one two years ago. Both of them
have borrowed rifles of all things. But now I have
my own two seventy, and I think maybe because it's
the one hundredth year, I got to take it hunting
this year. Have you hunted with a two seventy. I'd
love to hear your story. Our number here is tom talk.
(31:34):
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Speaker 3 (34:03):
You've probably heard the news that ATF director Steven Dadelbach
has announced his resignation. Well, yeah, because they're going to
kick him out in about nine days when Trump takes over.
But at the same time, you have efforts in several
(34:25):
states to try to pass really restrictive gun control lasso,
actually really gun bans. What they are in Michigan and
Colorado especially, were we talk about the Colorado when a
little bit later in the show. But I mean they're
talking about banning, not just semi automatic rifles, but banning
semi automatic pistols, anything that takes a detachable magazine, which
(34:47):
is almost all semi automatic pistols and a lot of
semi automatic shotguns as well. Why would they do that
because they can, because they have super majorities, because they
want to. Because you're seeing this, they're calling it, we're
going to trump proof things. Gavin Newston says we're going
(35:07):
to trump proof California. That's not really what's going on.
What they're saying is we're gonna voter proof this. We're
going to make sure that the will of the voters,
the will of the people, does not take effect here
because we disagree with what the people voted for. So
(35:29):
we're going to block the voters of the United States
of America from getting what they voted for. So this
is not an anti Trump thing. This is an anti
youth thing. Just keeping that in mind. A's grab Byron.
He is line two out of flag Staff, Arizona. Byron,
you're up.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 14 (35:51):
I just wanted to let you know I have been
in our instructor and everything since I was eighteen. I
am seventy seven and shottle on a national competition and
the one thing I tell people that don't have the
money for AMMO and time, et cetera for practice, that's
(36:15):
imperative that they do that. But if they don't have
the time, practice with your trigger finger. I point my
trigger finger and I'll say, point at the lamp over there,
and everybody in general can do that, I says, So
make that where your trigger finger is when you're pulling
(36:38):
that trigger on the gun.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
And so are you, I really ask you. Let me
see if I'm understanding. Are you having them point to
their finger? Actually, that's something I mean with their finger extended,
like get the gun barrow right.
Speaker 14 (36:52):
Right, that's correct, and not holding a gun, not endangering anybody,
but not even fight need someone. You're finger And I
do that probably two or three hours a day, just
I think, oh, I'm going to point at that and
it's off way off on my left shoulder and I
(37:14):
can see it peripherally, and I look then and I'm
pointing right at it.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
And so there's when you're that in your experience. Does
that help people transition to being able to point a handgun?
Speaker 14 (37:28):
Well, yes, sir, yes, sir. Not all people, but the
great majority, I'd say at least seventy five percent of
the people that I've worked with with this idea, they
are able to then pick up a gun and do
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Interesting, I just ran across another similar instruction that someone had,
and the idea was, when you're holding your pistol. If
you're trying to explain, you thought, who really doesn't know
much about it? He said, point your knuckle at the
target while you're holding the pistol. I thought, I've never
heard that one before. That was new to me. Have
you ever heard that.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Well?
Speaker 14 (38:08):
And of course, the one thing is that we're trained
to keep our finger off the trigger until we're ready
to shoot, So it's the same idea that finger is
should be until you put your finger on the trigger.
That finger should be pointed right at your target. What
got me into doing that fifty years ago was my
(38:31):
former father in law who was deceased. He was assistant
chief of police in Carmela, California, and he said, we
shoot all the time with BB guns and teach people
instinct shooting. We go ahead and do it even in
your living room or in a crowd.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just you're just pointing the things.
People say, Oh, that guy's point of stuff over there
and not even knowing that you're basically doing a fake
gun there. Fabulous idea. I love what you're doing there,
and I appreciate you passing that information along. And there's
no harm in that practice. Pointed suck. Not a bad idea,
very interesting seaking of BB guns got my full auto
(39:19):
BB gun in, so did Jim. Yeah, now we need
more magazine. Isn't that always the way? Be right back?
(39:39):
This didn't take long. Buddy's in Texas that he's got
a bone to pick with me about the two seventy Winchester. Hey, buddy,
what did I do to tick you off? Man?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Man, I'm gonna tell you before it's over with, I'm
gonna tell you, but I had a good conversation with
that sweet little lady that got me on the phone.
Listen to this. I'm a seventy year old guy. I
bought my first deer hunting rifle from TG and Y
and three Fort Louisiana when I was probably about fifteen
years old. Just walked in, bought it off the shelf.
(40:12):
Can't do that no more.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Let me explain for people don't know TG and why
was the department store we used to call it toyst
guns and yo yos.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
That's it, man, that's it. We talked at the time
store sometime. But anyway, no, I'm upset with you. I
graduated from that thirty thirty back in the early late
sixties to probably a hunting with it up until in
the early eighties. And I run across this model Fort
Remington two seventy and I bought it, nice little clean gun,
(40:45):
kills a bunch of deer with it, and lo, and
I've even graduated. I even own a like an STW.
You know, I just love guns, and I have a
few of them. But here's my beef with you. I
have a two seventy that three bucks with this year
and kill mother other deer with it too. But if
you keep talking about this two seventy and how good
(41:06):
it's gonna be, the I mean, this is gonna get
hard to find and the price is gonna.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Go well, well, you know, it is one of the
things I like about the two seventy. Almost anywhere you go,
you can find that I'm on the shelf, can't you.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
I told her that while ago that was sell my grife.
You're going to keep on you and ruin my world,
that is gonna hurt you.
Speaker 14 (41:29):
When you shoot it.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
It's so accurate. I mean, you know, it's just a
great all around a partridge.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It is that people say what what should I get?
And generally it's like for deer hunting, I say, you know, honestly,
it's pretty hard to beat a two seventy. It just
does everything you want. I would hunt elk with it
in a heartbeat, because now you can use anything for
one hundred and thirty to one hundred and fifty green bullets.
As you say, recourse is not too bad. They're generally
pretty accurate and you can find them where everywhere. Well, well,
(41:56):
good deal. I appreciate the story, buddy, I appreciate it.
You know, I know you're not mad at me. I
know that you probably got all the AMMO you need,
although there's really no such thing as having all the
AMO you need, But thank you for the call. I
do appreciate that. Yeah, I actually never owned one. I
borrowed one when I was eighteen and shot a deer
actually at two hundred and seventy yards, which was a
(42:17):
long shot in Louisiana at the time, and then I
used my buddy Brads two years ago, because we were
actually cleaning out his deer he had just shot with
his two seventy. I didn't have my rifle with me,
and Buck walks up right next to us, and I said, well,
you got any AMMO for that thing? And his gun's unloaded,
so he hands me his rifle and he hands me
two rounds of AMMO and I loaded up, turned around
(42:39):
and shoot this mule deer Buck. So so far I've
killed two deer with two seventy, and both of them
have borrowed rifles. But now I have my own. Had
local gunsmith who's really good rifle smith make one up
out of parts and it's basically it's a left handed
Riminton seven hundred mountain rifle, a kind of lightweight. It
(43:02):
would have been lightweight decades ago, compared to the Ultra
light Arms. It's not that lightweight, but son of a gun.
He bleueprinted it and accurized it, and out of the box,
even with a lightweight rifle, it'll do half inch to
three quarter inch groups all day long. So I'm a
little bit torn. I do like my Ultra light Arms
rifles because they're so darn light, and this one probably
(43:23):
weighs maybe a pound more. But at the same time,
I'm kind of thinking, because it's the one hundredth anniversary
of the two seventy, or really ought to go shoot
something with it. I don't know what it's gonna be,
but I think I got to take that thing out
and do a little hunting with it. Pay when we
got back, we're gonna get a first person report on
(43:45):
somebody who just this past week shot an ELK with
that brand new federal seven millimeters back country cartridge. I
want to know how it worked and how that whole
deal went. Also, of course, we've got room for you.
If you're a two seventy shooter or baby think could
like to get this new cartridge. Give me Holider eight
sixty six. Talk. Gun, don't go far, gun talk. I'll
(44:06):
be coming right back.
If you own a gun or I have ever thought
of buying a gun, you're in the right place. Tom
Gresham's Gun Talk is the original, the largest, and the
most respected national broadcast about guns, shooting, personal protection, and
the defense of the Second Amendment. Doesn't matter if you've
been shooting for years or if you're a beginner. Tom
can help. Just call Tom right now at Tom Talk
(00:24):
Gun Now. Here's Tom.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
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Speaker 3 (00:45):
Holy cal what a rollercoaster ride we have had this
week and this coming week. Oh yeah, by the way,
I'm Tom mc greshaman. This is Gun Talk. Glad that
you could be with us. We have, oh wow, so
much to talk about this week. Crazy stuff going on.
We have the US Supreme Court considering taking up Second
AMENDMIC cases. We'll have some news about what happened on
(01:08):
that on Friday. We've got the good news and the
bad news. I guess is where we were looking at
on that one. We have maybe something that's changing the
firearms industry, certainly the ammunition industry, but I think rifles
and cartridges and amo going on with some new and
some old for us to talk about. We have some
(01:29):
really interesting things on the Second Amendment front going on
the state of Colorado and Michigan also trying to get
into their last licks while they can to pass really
repressive gun control laws. Will have updates on that, and
of course, as always, we're going to have your calls,
your questions, the range reports. If you've been out to
the range doing a little shooting, we would love to
(01:51):
know about that. And of course in this twenty twenty
five we are celebrating the one hunt anniversary or birthday
if you prefer, of the famous and very much celebrated
and very effective still to this day rifle cartridge, the
two seventy Winchester, of course, made famous or maybe more
(02:14):
popular by Jack O'Connor, the gun writer. It still works
great after one hundred years. Is there any reason to change? Well? Yeah, wait,
did you hear what just came out this week? Because
there's some really interesting things being done, and we very well,
and this is not an exaggeration, we very well may
(02:36):
be entering a new era when it comes to rifle cartridges.
So there you go. If you want to join us.
Of course, the phone number is same as it always is.
Give me a call Tom Talk Gun, pretty easy, just
Tom Talk Gun. We'll get you in here and we'll
chat about your guns, your m O or anything else
you want to chat about. If you don't like guns, heck,
we'll move you to the front of the line and
(02:56):
you can tell me why. Fair enough, All right, all right,
let's talk about what just happened. I knew this was coming.
I actually got to shoot this cartridge a while back.
We did a video on it. Joining me right now
to explain what this is is Mike Holmes from Federal Cartridge. Hey, Mike,
welcome here and many if you guys got something new,
(03:18):
and you know, usually it's like, ah, yeah, fine, it's
another finish, it's another thing. This is really new, isn't.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
It it is. We're really excited about it, and you know,
we look at this as as a way to kind
of change the game, kind of level up what ammunition
can do from a performance standpoint.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
All right, it is the seven millimeter backcountry cartridge. When
you just look at it, it looks like a two
eddy riminton cartridge. It looks like you're thirty out six
size cartridge and it's in a seven millimeter or to
eighty four. It doesn't really look different until you start
getting into it. But well, first of all, let's back up.
(03:59):
Why what's the why on this? Why what's the need
that's being addressed here?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Well, over the last you know, a few years, really
the market is wanted to go to lighter, more compact,
short barreled rifles, you know, easier to maneuver. Suppressors have been,
you know, skyrocketing. Everybody is is migrating towards suppressors and
hunting with them. And when you have a long twenty
(04:29):
four inch barrel and you put a seven inch suppressor
on there, you know a lot of times it gets
it gets kind of unwieldy when you're walking through the woods,
when you're trying to be quiet in a blind, or
you know, UTVs and things like that. So the market's
you know, really wanting to go shorter, more compact. Well,
(04:49):
but what happens when you go shorter is you lose velocity.
And so what you see is this debate like what
cartridge should I use in my short barreled rifle to
give me the best performance while I'm hunting. And that's
what we set out to do with the seven millimeters
back country is really answer that need and give hunters
(05:12):
a chance to have magnum velocities out of their short
bailed rifle.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Okay, so what we're really trying to do is accommodate
shorter barrels. And I mean, anybody that knows much about
this understands that when you start shortening the barrel of
your rifle while you start losing velocity. Okay, but we
still want to maintain velocity. So we're going we still
want to use a short barrel, but we want to
keep our magnum velocity. And there's really well, there's several
(05:39):
ways to do that. One, of course, you go to
the big magnum cartridge. The other, of course, is the
time tested, proven method of pulling the trigger harder.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Or or you can increase the pressure the internal pressure
inside the cartridge case, which by the way, handler have
been trying to do forever and it's not a safe
way to go with our traditional cartion s.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Fair enough, that is fair.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
You know, brass case has been around a long time,
and it is. It is a fantastic case material and
has worked great for you know what we've needed it
to do. As we're you know, advancing and going forward
and trying to you know, get higher performance out of
shorter barrels, we found we have to look for different
materials to use to get the pressures up and do
(06:31):
it in a safe manner. And that's really the hero
of seven back Country is the what we call the
peak alloy case, and it's a steel alloy case that's
been in development for you know, over five years and
lots of testing, lots of development, lots of uh, just
(06:51):
work has been put into this to really find the
right solution that allows us to safely handle the higher
pressures giving us the magnum velocities and still have a
functionality and also keep it in a one case too
for ease of manufacturing.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Mike, didn't this development, this technology come out of the
military contract where the military is trying to go to
higher pressures or higher velocities out of shorter barrels.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, looking for you know, the there's you know, the
military is looking for going you know, getting more performance
out of shorter barrels in advancing. They're always looking to advance,
and that's a lot of where all of this stem from.
And so you know, we've been working on this. The
engineers kind of took that need and you know, like
I said, I've been working on this for over five
years really in just developing and kind of perfecting this.
(07:43):
And so as we look at the market and we go, well,
there's a consumer need here, and we've got a technology
now that we're comfortable with and ready to introduce, it
makes sense to use this to answer a need that
really I think people were wondering if it was solvable.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
One of my favorite activities and I had no We
have never talked about this. It's got to be one
of yours too. It's when a new cartridge or a
new thing is introduced, especially cartridges to watch on the internet.
Of all the people who have never seen it, never
shot it, know nothing about it, telling us all the
reasons why we don't need it, it won't work, and
(08:23):
it's just stupid. And I just laugh at all this
internet chatter going on with people who I've shot it.
I understand, but I mean, and they're saying I've never
seen it, never shot it, But let me tell you
all about it. Right.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Oh yeah, there's you know, there's all kinds of feedback
that we're getting and I appreciate it. I love the
energy that the market displays and the passion that people have,
So I love the debate. And you know, we're going
to work to answer a lot of those questions and
kind of speculation that's out there. We've got a lot
(08:58):
of content, lots of material to training. We'll take that
feedback and we'll answer those questions as we go forward.
But we're really excited about this. This is an advancement
that you know, I think the industry needs, and you know,
we're excited about it.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
What you're really getting is magnum performance out of a
non magnum case by virtue of having higher internal pressures.
But you're only able to do because you've got this
steel alloy case. Oh by the way, is it in
fact reloadable?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
It is reloadable, and that's the unique thing. This is not,
you know, like when you think of steelcase that's been
around for a long time, this is different.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
This is a high.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Performance steel alloy that in many respects acts like brass.
So we are able to reload this case and you know,
we'll have you instructions and we'll have some reload data
and some of that stuff up on our website as
we as we go forward, you know, working with reloading
(09:59):
company these on having dies and things.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Ready to go.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
So it is reloadable, and that's you know, usually one
of the top three questions that will get will be
you know, is it reloadable? And and it certainly is.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
One of the things that people keep saying is that
in your material Federal says, well, you're getting higher performance
and higher velocities or state of velocities with shorter barrels,
but with less recoil. And people say, well, that's not possible,
because if the bullet's going the same speed and the
rifle ways the same, the recoil's got to be the same.
And they're leaving out that you're not using these heavier
(10:35):
powder charges you have in these great, big magnum cases,
and that reduces the total payload going out the barrel.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
That is true. That is a factor that you know,
it's easy to miss, is the amount of a propellant
that's used is a factor in the recoil calculations. And
so we're using a significantly less amount of propellant to
do what we're doing here. And so when you run
the numbers on the mass on just recoil and you're
(11:08):
getting about the same number as what you would get
with a seven PRC. So you know, we've done a
lot of recoil testing with this. The first thing that
we did when we did this, we took US seven
O eight and had it at standard pressures, and then
we had our alloy case and peak alloy case loaded
up to eighty thousand psid and we shoot one after
(11:30):
the other. And we had several people doing this and
you couldn't tell you could mix them up and you
couldn't tell which one was which, and so we really
kind of knew we were onto something there. We did
the same thing at a customer summit where we had
a number of customers out and we choose twenty eight
nozzle or seven PRC seven back country and have them
(11:50):
all shoot them together and just sense the recoil impulse
and you know it's.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Right there.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It's not excessive recoil. And that's what people think of
when they think of high pressure.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Hey, Mike, can I get you a hold on the secondary?
I got several more questions, but I gotta take a break.
Are you okay with that? Yeah? Absolutely, okay, let's do
that when we come back. There's other things I want
to know about. The more I learned about the seven
millimeters back country carts just bran new carters from Federal,
the more questions I have about it. I'm sure you
do too, So the world try to fill in some
(12:22):
of those blanks when we come back. I'm Tom Greshaman.
This is gun Talk.
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Speaker 3 (13:36):
Put all your gear on the you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not gonna
have in a fight. Gun talks should be in your
podcast feed.
Speaker 9 (13:46):
Check out gun Talk Nation.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 10 (13:49):
You know, if it's like C four, it's almost like
a smack hunting.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, we talk about that too.
Speaker 11 (13:55):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Aje, you're really dating yourself.
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Call things crosshairs, eureredical whatever.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
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Speaker 12 (14:40):
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Record a short message to Tom on your phone, include
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Speaker 3 (14:58):
Hey, we're talking with Mike Holmes from Federal Cartridge. They've
got a brand new rifle cartridge out called the seven
milimeters back Country. It's not like just another flavor. This
is new technology traditionally, Well, let's go back to regular
brass cartridges. The two seventy Winchester introduced one hundred years
ago still sets the bar. And what the highest psi
(15:22):
is allowed under Sammy Spex at sixty five thousand psi.
The new cartridge, Mike, seven milimeters back Country, you're at
eighty thousand psi. I have so many questions. Number one
is can regular rifle makers just rechamber for this? And
are the rifles actions and the barrels strong enough?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah in most cases.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
You know the beauty of the peak iloy cases that
it really acts like a pressure vessel and so it
doesn't have that elasticity that a brass case has. And
it also interacts with the chamber wall in a more
robust way. So what the rifle actually sees from a
(16:06):
bolt force, that force coming back on the bolt is
the same with our eighty thousand psi peak alloy case
as it is with you know, a sixty sixty five
thousand psi case brass case. And so that's kind of
where we settled on. The eighty thousand number was that
it's very you know, the rifles have been handling that
(16:31):
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
What I think I just heard you say is that
you in testing could go higher than eighty thousand psi.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Oh certainly, yep, absolutely certainly, And we and we have
in a number of cases just right you know where
we're at right now and what we're trying to accomplish.
Eighty thousand is the number that, you know, we really
settled on, and that's where we're going.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
So if somebody like the militaries said yeah, but we
need something really special, they can do something that other
people can't do. You could create one hundred hundred and
twenty thousand psi cartridge that we work at, a special
gun made for them, not available to us. But I'm
just thinking way out there, Star wars kind of stuff.
There's no telling what you guys are doing.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Sure, yep, there's I mean, there's a lot of there's
a lot of things that we can do, and that's
what we're excited about. You know, this is really just
the beginning.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Could this technology find its way down to handgun cartridges.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
It's I mean it's possible. You know, there's you know,
we've we've got we've kicked around the ideas of a
number of different things and ways that we could go
with this this technology. So you know, we've we're looking
at how we roadmap this out over the next number
of years, and you know, where the technology can fit needs.
(17:52):
You know, that's the thing is you want to you
want to solve the need that is out there in
the marketplace that that isn't being handled today.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Is this the future of rifle cartridges? You know it?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Uh, Like I said again, if where it fits and
answers a need, it certainly it certainly is. You know,
Like that's it's kind of like we look at this
as kind of like a you know, one of those
kind of game changing things when you go from black
powder to smoke its powder, that's a level up, you know,
this This case technology allows us to level up performance
(18:29):
and you know it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Will other animal companies be able to license this and
load it or is this something that only federal can do?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Yeah, well, you know, right now, it's a patented proprietary
cartridge case material. There's I'm sure there's other ways to
solve things that that we're doing right now, but we're
certainly we want to support the market, do the best
we can, and we'll work with other companies as as
we go forward, and as you know, they want to
(19:02):
get into this kind of game as well.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right off the bat, you're able to work with a lot.
There are a lot of rifle companies that have already
announced they're going to be chambering for the seven back country. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
I think we're up over eighty models now with Yeah,
it's over a dozen different companies and they're they're coming
on all along. I got to say the rifle manufacturers
have been just wonderful to work with, very supportive, helped
out a lot with testing and just getting guns out
in the field for people to shoot.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
And work with.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And it's just been a really a great collaboration with
the gun companies and partners.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
We're talking with Mike Holmes from Federal Charters. Uh, if
you would, Mike just kind of run down you got
what four loadings right off the bat in the seven
back country.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yeah, there's there's actually five. There's two loads in our
terminal Ascent, which is really are federal made hunting bullet.
It's a robust, bonded hunting bullet, really sleek, high highbc's
designed to be, you know, a robust bonded bullet, but
also upset at long range. So we've got a unique
(20:15):
tip design in there, internal and external skyting on the bullet,
so it really it's it's an all range, awesome hunting bullet.
We've got that in one hundred and seventy grains as
well as one hundred and fifty five grain. And one
interesting thing about the one to fifty five is if
you were to get a sixteen inch barrel rifle shooting
(20:37):
this one to fifty five, we've got just over three
thousand feet per second out of it. So that's another
option if you wanted to go even shorter with your barrel.
We have four The heaviest thing that we're offering is
one hundred and ninety five grain Burger Elite Hunter and
(20:57):
so that's the highest BC bullet. That's aero point seven
five five G one B So that yeah, that's amazing.
So we're excited about that one. We also have for
monolithic copper people led free people, we have one hundred
and sixty eight Green Barnes LRX. And then we also
just introduced fusion tip last year in a lineup of cartridges,
(21:22):
and we're going to do that one as well in
one hundred and seventy five grain.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
All right, last question, I got to get to my
other break here is this available right now? Can people
go out and buy the ammo, start buying rifles chambers
from the seven milimeter back country?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yes, I've heard that there are rifles at some dealers already.
The ammunition, the first ammunition going out will be our
fusion tipped offering, and that is in our warehouse right now.
So if you went out today, I'm not sure, but
certainly within the next week or two you certainly can.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
That is terrific, Mike, This is very exciting stuff. I
think we're turning in a corner, and not that we're
going to stop having our old traditional cartridges, because they
really are great new work. But this is something new
and different and for people who want those short barrels,
particularly using suppressors, this is exciting stuff. Well done.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Thank you appreciate it, and thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
You bet you take care. Appreciate that, Mike. Yeah, and
just a little bit, we're gonna have an actual field report,
a range report of somebody like on our staff who
last week shot an ELK with the seven millimeter backcountry. Yeah,
we get them before everybody else doff. That's part of
the funt of it. Also, you go on YouTube look
under gun talk. You could see me shooting it and
(22:37):
giving you my impressions of it. So that's pretty deep.
What do you think of this eight six ' six
talk gun? Would you buy it? Wow? That's pretty exciting stuff.
New cartoons from Federal new technology. Higher pressure's considerably higher
(23:01):
pressures depending on where you're starting at sixty or sixty
five thousand, you look at twenty three to thirty percent
increase in pressures. Ultimately, what that new cartridge does It
lets you keep your magnum cartridge velocity, but do it
in a shorter barrel. I mean that's really what it is. Now.
(23:25):
I know what you're thinking you're ahead of me, all right,
you think, well, what if I wanted to keep the
long barrel, Well, then you'd have more velocity, wouldn't you, Yes,
you would, so a couple of ways to go there.
It also, and here's something that nobody I have not
seen a single person mentioned other than me and the
video I did on this cartridge, and that is with
magnum cartridges. And I don't care if they're the ones
(23:47):
with the belts on them, like the seven mags, three
hundred mag Win mag or the non belted fat cartridges
like the prcs. You have a fatter cartridge, that means
you have reduced capacity in the magazine of your rifle.
When you go with the seven millimeter backcountry, you have
(24:08):
a cartridge case that's the same diameter as a thirty
out six case. I mean it looks like a thirty
out six or two eighty or two seventy. What that's
going to give you is want, depending on the rifle,
one or two more rounds in the magazine. Well is
that important? I don't know. I mean we hunt with
single shots. It's where it's not important. But if you said, yeah,
(24:31):
but I'd really like to have one or two more
rounds in my gun. This is going to give you
that magnum performance without having to go to the fat
body magnum cartridge, which reduces the capacity the number of
rounds in your gun. So there's a bonus that to
this point, I don't think anybody is talking about. At least,
one of the first things I thought of when I
(24:52):
saw this, we'll talk a little bit more about that
is to go along where we have second of politics
going on right now, certainly a lot of and I
was going to bring this up, a lot of things
going on at the NRA, but actually Mark just called
in out of Illinois with a question about what's going
on at the NRA. So Mark, you have the floor.
How can we help you?
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (25:13):
Tom Dick Fairburn, And I don't know if you know
him or not. He announced on his YouTube channel last
year that he was apparently initially he was trying to
get a petition to get him put on the put
on for the NRA board, but apparently he's been nominated.
(25:35):
He still says that he is a reform candidate and
the other thing, and I don't remember his exact wording
of this, but essentially he was saying that no matter
how daunting the task may be, it would be a
bad thing if the NRA fell by the wayside, and
that we need to reform the NRA and try to
(25:55):
salvage it. I believe we're not too far from the
point in time when they when they send out the
UH send out the American rifle and with the Board.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Of Director, yeah, the ballots to be coming out. Here's
what I know. Yes, there is a real reform effort.
There's going to be a slate of reform candidates. And
I am pretty sure when you get your magazine, next
to the ballot, maybe even wrapped around this ballot that
has inserted in the magazine, will be a full page
(26:29):
or a two page spread. That's Buzzmills, a gun site
who is one of the board members, is putting together
with their recommended recommendations of who to vote for. And
I would say everybody on that list is who I
would vote for. If Buzz Mills says these are the
real reform candidates, not the phony ones that are claiming
(26:52):
they're the you know, I would just look when you
get your magazine, look for that. I guess it's gonna
be like an ad they have paid for in the
magazine to put in their their slate of performed candidates
from Buzz Mills, that's who I would vote for.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Okay, all right, thank you you bet.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I appreciate it. Good good question. And we're gonna get
Buzz on the show in a week or so. Speaking
of upcoming shows, we have the Shot Show coming up.
It starts I'm really a week from today, officially the
Tuesday afterward, but we'll be at shooting ranges on Sunday
and Monday before Shot Show in Vegas. Typically, in the
(27:31):
old days, you know, up to maybe fifteen twenty years ago,
gun makers but everybody in the industry, they would wait
until Shot Show to introduce new product, and we would
wait till Shot Show and then we'd find out what
the new things are. And some of us knew ahead
of time, but you had to hold on to that information. Obviously,
(27:52):
from our last guest, companies are not waiting for that anymore,
and there are a ton of new things being introduced.
Obviously we get some of that information, we put it out.
There's another source that I would recommend if you said,
I'm just interested in knowing what's going on, the Shooting Wire.
If you go to shooting wire dot com you can
sign up. It's a free newsletter, an email newsletter you
(28:15):
get from our friend Jim Shepherd, and he has the
outdoor Wire, the Shooting Wire, and the dealer Wire and
other wires out there, but the Shooting Wire will give
you information. Basically, he gets all the news releases and
puts them out and it's a pretty good source of
information as well. Obviously, you should be getting all of
our podcasts from gun Talk, where we have all sorts
of new things going on. We have videos going out
(28:37):
all the time because we're getting all this new product
out all the time, whether it's optics, pistols, rifles, shotguns, amo,
whatever it is. We're taking it out to the range
and doing videos on it so we can give you
a lot of times. It's not like a detailed look
at it. It's a first look of here's what it is,
(28:58):
here's how it shoots, here's kind of our first impressions,
if you will. And that's what I did with the
sub milinter back Country. I shot it, shot it through
the chronograph and then kind of gave my thoughts on
where this fits and what it does for you. Here's
the question people are gonna ask, well, do I need
to do this?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Probably not, is the answer. Is it cool? Yeah? Is
it exciting innovation? Absolutely? Do you need it now? You
need a one hundred year old cartridge or one hundred
and fifty year old cartridge, I don't care. Shoot what
you want, hunt with what you want. Toward that end,
we have right now the one hundred year anniversary of
(29:42):
the two seventy Winchester cartridge. Nineteen twenty five. It was introduced,
and it set the standard, and that has been the
standard for one hundred years of the highest pressure allowed
under the specifications of Sammy SAMI Sporting Arms and Ammunition
Manufacturer's Institute, so sixty five thousand psi. Other cartridges so
(30:07):
thirty out six or less than that, three or eight
less than that, but two seventy is right up there.
It's one hundred years old, but it's still really good.
Here's a fun exercise if you're really into this stuff,
get your ballistic tables out or your app or go online, whatever,
(30:30):
and start looking up the downrange performance of the two
seventy Winchester versus other modern hunting cartridges. What you're gonna
find is that out to about five hundred yards, there's
very little difference. And I don't care if you're talking
(30:51):
about a cartridge that has creed More in the name,
or PRC in the name, or whatever magnum in the name.
Out to about five hundred yards, it doesn't matter that
the higher BC bullets really start to pay off, and
you don't really have those in the two seventy. But
if you're like me, where you're gonna limit your shots
to four hundred or under, doesn't matter. The two seventy
will do whatever you want. It's still a great cartridge.
(31:14):
I've killed two deer with two seventy, one fifty five
years ago and one two years ago. Both of them
have borrowed rifles of all things. But now I have
my own two seventy, and I think maybe because it's
the one hundredth year, I got to take it hunting
this year. Have you hunted with a two seventy. I'd
love to hear your story. Our number here is tom talk.
(31:34):
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Speaker 3 (34:03):
You've probably heard the news that ATF director Steven Dadelbach
has announced his resignation. Well, yeah, because they're going to
kick him out in about nine days when Trump takes over.
But at the same time, you have efforts in several
(34:25):
states to try to pass really restrictive gun control lasso,
actually really gun bans. What they are in Michigan and
Colorado especially, were we talk about the Colorado when a
little bit later in the show. But I mean they're
talking about banning, not just semi automatic rifles, but banning
semi automatic pistols, anything that takes a detachable magazine, which
(34:47):
is almost all semi automatic pistols and a lot of
semi automatic shotguns as well. Why would they do that
because they can, because they have super majorities, because they
want to. Because you're seeing this, they're calling it, we're
going to trump proof things. Gavin Newston says we're going
(35:07):
to trump proof California. That's not really what's going on.
What they're saying is we're gonna voter proof this. We're
going to make sure that the will of the voters,
the will of the people, does not take effect here
because we disagree with what the people voted for. So
(35:29):
we're going to block the voters of the United States
of America from getting what they voted for. So this
is not an anti Trump thing. This is an anti
youth thing. Just keeping that in mind. A's grab Byron.
He is line two out of flag Staff, Arizona. Byron,
you're up.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 14 (35:51):
I just wanted to let you know I have been
in our instructor and everything since I was eighteen. I
am seventy seven and shottle on a national competition and
the one thing I tell people that don't have the
money for AMMO and time, et cetera for practice, that's
(36:15):
imperative that they do that. But if they don't have
the time, practice with your trigger finger. I point my
trigger finger and I'll say, point at the lamp over there,
and everybody in general can do that, I says, So
make that where your trigger finger is when you're pulling
(36:38):
that trigger on the gun.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
And so are you, I really ask you. Let me
see if I'm understanding. Are you having them point to
their finger? Actually, that's something I mean with their finger extended,
like get the gun barrow right.
Speaker 14 (36:52):
Right, that's correct, and not holding a gun, not endangering anybody,
but not even fight need someone. You're finger And I
do that probably two or three hours a day, just
I think, oh, I'm going to point at that and
it's off way off on my left shoulder and I
(37:14):
can see it peripherally, and I look then and I'm
pointing right at it.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
And so there's when you're that in your experience. Does
that help people transition to being able to point a handgun?
Speaker 14 (37:28):
Well, yes, sir, yes, sir. Not all people, but the
great majority, I'd say at least seventy five percent of
the people that I've worked with with this idea, they
are able to then pick up a gun and do
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Interesting, I just ran across another similar instruction that someone had,
and the idea was, when you're holding your pistol. If
you're trying to explain, you thought, who really doesn't know
much about it? He said, point your knuckle at the
target while you're holding the pistol. I thought, I've never
heard that one before. That was new to me. Have
you ever heard that.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Well?
Speaker 14 (38:08):
And of course, the one thing is that we're trained
to keep our finger off the trigger until we're ready
to shoot, So it's the same idea that finger is
should be until you put your finger on the trigger.
That finger should be pointed right at your target. What
got me into doing that fifty years ago was my
(38:31):
former father in law who was deceased. He was assistant
chief of police in Carmela, California, and he said, we
shoot all the time with BB guns and teach people
instinct shooting. We go ahead and do it even in
your living room or in a crowd.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just you're just pointing the things.
People say, Oh, that guy's point of stuff over there
and not even knowing that you're basically doing a fake
gun there. Fabulous idea. I love what you're doing there,
and I appreciate you passing that information along. And there's
no harm in that practice. Pointed suck. Not a bad idea,
very interesting seaking of BB guns got my full auto
(39:19):
BB gun in, so did Jim. Yeah, now we need
more magazine. Isn't that always the way? Be right back?
(39:39):
This didn't take long. Buddy's in Texas that he's got
a bone to pick with me about the two seventy Winchester. Hey, buddy,
what did I do to tick you off? Man?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Man, I'm gonna tell you before it's over with, I'm
gonna tell you, but I had a good conversation with
that sweet little lady that got me on the phone.
Listen to this. I'm a seventy year old guy. I
bought my first deer hunting rifle from TG and Y
and three Fort Louisiana when I was probably about fifteen
years old. Just walked in, bought it off the shelf.
(40:12):
Can't do that no more.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Let me explain for people don't know TG and why
was the department store we used to call it toyst
guns and yo yos.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
That's it, man, that's it. We talked at the time
store sometime. But anyway, no, I'm upset with you. I
graduated from that thirty thirty back in the early late
sixties to probably a hunting with it up until in
the early eighties. And I run across this model Fort
Remington two seventy and I bought it, nice little clean gun,
(40:45):
kills a bunch of deer with it, and lo, and
I've even graduated. I even own a like an STW.
You know, I just love guns, and I have a
few of them. But here's my beef with you. I
have a two seventy that three bucks with this year
and kill mother other deer with it too. But if
you keep talking about this two seventy and how good
(41:06):
it's gonna be, the I mean, this is gonna get
hard to find and the price is gonna.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Go well, well, you know, it is one of the
things I like about the two seventy. Almost anywhere you go,
you can find that I'm on the shelf, can't you.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
I told her that while ago that was sell my grife.
You're going to keep on you and ruin my world,
that is gonna hurt you.
Speaker 14 (41:29):
When you shoot it.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
It's so accurate. I mean, you know, it's just a
great all around a partridge.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It is that people say what what should I get?
And generally it's like for deer hunting, I say, you know, honestly,
it's pretty hard to beat a two seventy. It just
does everything you want. I would hunt elk with it
in a heartbeat, because now you can use anything for
one hundred and thirty to one hundred and fifty green bullets.
As you say, recourse is not too bad. They're generally
pretty accurate and you can find them where everywhere. Well, well,
(41:56):
good deal. I appreciate the story, buddy, I appreciate it.
You know, I know you're not mad at me. I
know that you probably got all the AMMO you need,
although there's really no such thing as having all the
AMO you need, But thank you for the call. I
do appreciate that. Yeah, I actually never owned one. I
borrowed one when I was eighteen and shot a deer
actually at two hundred and seventy yards, which was a
(42:17):
long shot in Louisiana at the time, and then I
used my buddy Brads two years ago, because we were
actually cleaning out his deer he had just shot with
his two seventy. I didn't have my rifle with me,
and Buck walks up right next to us, and I said, well,
you got any AMMO for that thing? And his gun's unloaded,
so he hands me his rifle and he hands me
two rounds of AMMO and I loaded up, turned around
(42:39):
and shoot this mule deer Buck. So so far I've
killed two deer with two seventy, and both of them
have borrowed rifles. But now I have my own. Had
local gunsmith who's really good rifle smith make one up
out of parts and it's basically it's a left handed
Riminton seven hundred mountain rifle, a kind of lightweight. It
(43:02):
would have been lightweight decades ago, compared to the Ultra
light Arms. It's not that lightweight, but son of a gun.
He bleueprinted it and accurized it, and out of the box,
even with a lightweight rifle, it'll do half inch to
three quarter inch groups all day long. So I'm a
little bit torn. I do like my Ultra light Arms
rifles because they're so darn light, and this one probably
(43:23):
weighs maybe a pound more. But at the same time,
I'm kind of thinking, because it's the one hundredth anniversary
of the two seventy, or really ought to go shoot
something with it. I don't know what it's gonna be,
but I think I got to take that thing out
and do a little hunting with it. Pay when we
got back, we're gonna get a first person report on
(43:45):
somebody who just this past week shot an ELK with
that brand new federal seven millimeters back country cartridge. I
want to know how it worked and how that whole
deal went. Also, of course, we've got room for you.
If you're a two seventy shooter or baby think could
like to get this new cartridge. Give me Holider eight
sixty six. Talk. Gun, don't go far, gun talk. I'll
(44:06):
be coming right back.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.