In This Hour:
-- Stupid gun fails in movies and TV series. Why do they keep racking the slide of a shotgun in the middle of a gunfight?
-- How do you know if your shooting instructor is any good?
-- What to say, and to not say, after a self defense shooting.
Gun Talk 04.06.25 After Show
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Stupid gun fails in movies and TV series. Why do they keep racking the slide of a shotgun in the middle of a gunfight?
-- How do you know if your shooting instructor is any good?
-- What to say, and to not say, after a self defense shooting.
Gun Talk 04.06.25 After Show
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We all can use some training to get better. Take
a training class to be prepared with range Ready. Visit
range ready studios dot com to see our class schedule.
So you've made it through three hours of the regular
show on terrestrial radio and you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Wanted a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
So that's why you found the Gun Talk After Show
podcast where we saved all the best things.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That we can't say on regular radio.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Now here's Tom, Michelle and Jim for the Gun Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
After Show is after showtime. We got Jim Canzie, Tom Henning,
and I am here as well. How about that you
are yeah, yeah, somewhat kind.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Of short of thirty years in kicking.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
So far, so good, right, kicking and screaming.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, well well that too, Yes, exactly tell you what
we're going to get to Todd just a second here,
But I just want to tease after that. I want
to talk about something I just saw and you had
another TV show that had to do with guns and
just left me. I know, I ruined it for my
wife or I just said that's just stupid. She's rolling
(01:11):
her eyes. I'll tell you about that in just a minute.
But we got Todd who called in and we want
to go ahead and pick this thing up. Hey Todd,
thank you for your patience. Man, I appreciate you being
part of the after show.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
Well, I appreciate you. You kind of stole my thunder
with the CCW lasering the audience story because this kind
of a similar situation happened with me. So I'm retired
law enforcement out of California and my friend who has
also retired law enforcement at Calgary both firearms instructors and
armorers for our department. We moved up here to Oregon
(01:43):
and she says, hey, let's go take the local concealed
carry classes put on by the local police department, and
so we'll check out what the local laws are. And
we didn't tell anybody who we were. And so it's
a classroom of about thirty people. I'm sure most of
them have never even touched a gun before, and it's
inside the police Department's usually taught by a cop, and
(02:04):
they're one of their firearms instructors who's not a cop.
He was an NRA reinstructor, insurance salesman. In any case,
the cop was sick, so it was all on the
shoulders of this poor insurance salesman who I guess had
dreams about being a cop. And he's got he's got
the table set up with all of his personal guns
(02:27):
for show and tell, and you know, he's given us
a little speech about what's going on. He never demonstrates
that the guns are unloaded or in a safe condition.
And then he says, Okay, you know, anybody wants to
come up here and handle the guns, I'm going to
take a quick potty break up right back. You kidding me.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Of these guns at all.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
He's not even there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
He's not insuring safety or into the here's just hey,
everybody here, do whatever you want to do with these guns.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
And then I you know, I could have walked up
there and just slipped one into my or something. But
in any case, you know, he kept my My friend
went a excrement on that one. But then he comes
back and you know, we just we just you know,
you know, just cool our jets and listen to what
this guy has to say. And one thing, a little
(03:18):
off topic. He he was talking about how delighted he
was that that department, I will not mention went to
nine millimeter from forty caliber because the scores, the shooting
scores at the range went up and of course, I'm
thinking in my head, we always we always carried forty
caliber from my department, and we were totally fine. I
(03:41):
think most of the firearms instructors would have preferred forty
five if we could have gotten away with it. But
I felt like saying, hey, buddy, if you want this,
if all you're doing is chasing scores, why don't you
just go to twenty two rim fire. Yeah, I'm sure
the scores will go right through the roof. So it
(04:02):
was kind of It was interesting to go through the class.
But you have so much good information about really good ranges,
and they're not necessarily put on by police departments. There
are really good instructors out there that have tons of
military and police experience, real world experience, and they will
not make that mistake ever, well, at least I haven't
(04:25):
seen it. When you had it beaten into your head
about the liability that's hanging over your head. You make
sure you don't laser people, you don't. Everything has to
be totally safe, even I protect when we were doing
armory classes, if we were worried about, you know, springs
going off into people's faces, if you didn't have safety
glasses on, we would have this big feathered dunce cap
(04:49):
that we would put on you for the rest.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Of the class.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
I love and just one of the things before I
go is I know that nine millimeters AMO is much
better than it was in the old days. Masada You
has a fantastic book and if there's a cop listening
who hasn't read it, it's called Stress Fire. It's not
easy to find anymore, but it talks about what cops
go through in real shootings, whether they survived or not.
(05:18):
They diagnose what happened with what's going through a CoP's
mind physically, mentally, how time slows down audio exclusion, you know,
peripheral vision goes down to nothing. It was an amazing book.
He is such an expert, He's such a resource. I
love watching his videos and I recommend them to anybody
(05:40):
who really wants to make a difference in their personal safety.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, Todd, it is one of the puzzle much for me.
And for whatever reason, Masada You remains controversial. There are
a lot of people on the internet who like to
really pooh pooh him and talk him down. He had
no what he's talking about, and I look, go, you know,
how many cases have you testified then you know, self
(06:04):
defense cases or shooting cases where he has been the
expert witness in hundreds, if not thousands of cases, you know,
and I mean he knows what happens in these cases.
He's talked to hundreds or thousands of cops who have
been in shootings. Like you're saying, Todd, he knows exactly
what goes on. And yet there are those who have
(06:25):
no experience whatsoever and love to mock him. I would
just say, if you get a chance to take one
of his classes, and they are instructional on shooting, but
more than that, it's kind of what to do, what
not to do, how to handle yourself, not just in
the shooting part, but the aftermath part. I think Messada
Youube is a treasure that people don't fully appreciate.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Absolutely, And a little bit on that topic I took.
When you're an armory have to every three years, whether
it's your AR fifteen that you're carrying Formington eight seventy
shotgun er hands gone, you have to go through a
course put on by that that company. I took her
cold class. An instructor was the most amazing guy. He
(07:10):
was a cop in Delaware. I believe, and he had
been involved in a lot of shootings, and he's saying
to this classroom full of cops, he said, how many
people have been involved in a shooting? Nobody raised her hand,
and he was astonished. They said, well, when I shot
my first guy, I didn't even have to do a
paper report, and the second guy it was two pages.
(07:32):
The third time I was out on leaves and pyke
tests and multiple reports from these people who have real
world experience. I mean, it's a different world from what
people have been in combat and what people who have
been pushing a patrol car around have. And you know,
the want to be, you know, insurance salesman, but one
(07:52):
of the things totally different subject matter. Like a guy
called up two weeks ago and he was he wanted
to find a two two three Remington rifle with a
slow twist so he could push fifty five grain bullets
out of the barrel as fast as possible. And you
tried to talk them back from that and say, hey,
you know, there are good things about heavier grain bullets.
(08:13):
They more stables, ballistic coefficient, all like that. But if
the guy is listening and he has his heart set
on a slow twist. My favorite bull taxing rifle is
the Remingtons seven eighty eight rifle. I have two and
two to two three a one to twelve twist, fast
lock time rear locking lugs, and he can have a
(08:34):
delightful time with that. When they were going, when they
were taking those off the production line back in the
early eighties, I ran out and bought two of them.
One I shoot, the other one has never been shot
since the early nineteen eighties. It's just sitting there waiting
for me to use it.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The Remadens seventy eighty eight is the ugliest duckling out there.
It is just ugly, and they shoot so well. They
have no business shooting as well as they But you're right,
most people don't remember that it had the shortest lock
time of any boltox and rifle at the time.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
At twenty four inch barrel. And it was affordable and
you can still pick him up on gun Broker one
of those other online sites for less than four five
hundred bucks, in really good shape. And I am so
grateful that I took a Remington class. We've carried eight
Remington eight seventy shotguns by a Remington factory guy he's retired. Now,
(09:26):
what a great last name. His last name was Matchlock
and he was at that He was at that company
for forty years. And he any gun you had a
question about, Oh, the model, the Nylon sixty six. He
was on that production line. He saw every nut and bolts,
the Remington seventy eighty eight. But and then he pulls
(09:49):
out his I mean, there are some really good people
out there. And he showed me his own personal range
that went out to six hundred yards. And the guy
that taught the cold class there, I'm awesome. ATF Agents.
He was also a former ATF Agent and I won't
give his name, but he showed on his PowerPoint his
personal gun collection. Of course, everything was collected legally. He
(10:13):
had a machine gun collection that would rival the National
Rifle Association. Wow, multiple million dollar collection. And he had
two daughters and he said, and don't think you're going
to marry one of my daughters and inherit this. They
are tough as nails. They'll eat you alive.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh lordie, Well that is great, good, good information. But yeah,
you know, back to our main point, which is you
when you're let me ask you this question, though, that
class as you took with the concier carry class. I'm
guessing that some of the people who took the class
came away thinking, man, that guy was smart. He really
knew his stuff, because they don't have any way to
(10:57):
compare it with anything else.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
Oh, they were just people in off the street that
just wanted to get an Oregon. At the present time,
it's very easy to get a concealed carry, and you
can open carry. I'm sure that'll change in the near future.
But you could tell these people were totally green. And
that's the first meet I'm telling you what you already
know in ninety nine percent of your audience. The primary thing,
(11:19):
your greatest responsibility is safety, and if you want to
preserve the Second Amendment, you have to be as safe
as possible. If we're reckless, people are going to seize
on that. Who want to take away.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
All right, screw up, screw and oupe. By the way,
for those who are listening, I have an Oregon carry
permit and I don't live in Oregon. And people say, well,
they don't issue no, Yeah, actually they do. If you
live in a state that is contiguous with that is
touches Oregon, you can get an Oregon carry permit.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Hey, y yep, Todd, before you run off, I did
learn something from me.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I wanted to thank you.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I learned that most insurance salesmen don't offer an intermediate
concealed carrier.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
Course, what scared me. What scared me is that he
would do ride alongs with the cops. And it's just like, dude,
you know he's probably caring too. It's just like, you know.
I almost went up to the fire the chief of
police there, and said, look, if you need help, I'll volunteer.
(12:22):
You might want to keep it in house with people
who've actually done the job right. Oh.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
One other thing I got to share with you, because
you mentioned nine verses forty one of my favorite quotes.
I was doing some work with a guy had a
lovely British accident. Turns out he was British Special Forces
and those guys are some tough sobs. And he says,
I don't know why people bad mouth the nine millimeter
(12:49):
because everyone I ever shot with one died.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Well, you know in the miaf hey talking about Massada,
you is dying. His breakdown of the Miami Dade shooting.
Oh yes, he said, it wasn't that those guys weren't dying,
they just weren't dying fast enough, quick enough.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
A bad guy.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
They kept fighting even though they were dying. They kept
shooting the FBI ag.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
And absolutely, you're not. Your goal is not to kill somebody,
it's to stop the threat. And it's one forty five
of two hundred and thirty grains knocks them off their
feet and stops the fight right then and there. Fine,
if they survived, great, But just peppering them with bullets
and having them die after they keep shooting people, that's
not good. Like the North Hollywood shootout, which I was
(13:39):
actually very close to that while it was going on,
I was watching it live on TV, and right down.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The street we just observed the another anniversary of the
New Hall shooting, which change police tactics forever.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
Well, I have one quick story on the New Hall shooting.
I met the guy, a CHP officer I won't mention
his name, who the next officer unseen after the four
had been murdered, and he saw the four CHP officers
laid up, laid out on the floor of a doctor's
office out there. And New Hall was a very rural
area at the time. One of the two bad guys
(14:14):
had been shot and wounded and was brought to the
doctor's office and the doctor said, I won't treat him,
take him to Los Angeles, and so he took a long,
painful ride and just a takeaway. And that's also in
Massada Eube's book of that New Hall shooting. The only
person who shot and wounded the one guy the cops
(14:35):
killed the other one was a citizen in a trailer
that the guy was trying to hijack. Citizen wounded one
of the bad guys.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Basically, and you're right if you go on Amazon and
pick up any of Messada Eube's books, and you're not
going to be disappointed. My thought on that, Todd, we
got a run here. Look, I appreciate it's been a
great call. Thank you so much, sir. All right, you
take you all right, we'll take quick break here. When
we come back, go on. Talk about movie gun stuff
that makes me scream.
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Speaker 2 (15:49):
Okay, So I mean, I I know this is just
a pet pave peeve of mine. Well, actually I think
it probably bothers a lot of people we're watching. And look,
I like Child's books, I like the Reacher series. I
like the franchise and enjoy reading his books. And you know,
Tom Cruise was lousy because Jack Reacher, this guy is
(16:11):
supposed to be like this big, huge guy, and Tom
Cruise is a shrimp. But the TV series started off
not bad. It's on Prime. Now we're into the third
season and it's garbage. It's the only thing I can say.
I don't know if they got different writers or whatever,
but for whatever reason, we watched the whole thing. Watched
the last one last night. So here's the scenario. Jack Reacher,
(16:34):
former Military MP, Army MP, Goodwood Guns. He's got a
house full of bad guys. He's going in he's already
shot several of he grabbed a shotgun. He's shotgun in
these guys. As he's going through the hallway. He's in
the middle of a gun fight. Right at a prime moment,
he racks the slide of a shotgun. So one of
(16:55):
two things happened. Either he was carrying an empty chamber unlikely,
or if it wasn't an empty chamber, he just threw
a live round out right. Okay, so that's great. So
he racks the slide. I guess that's to tell him
he really means business.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Now, Yeah, now I'm serious.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know. And so he shoots one of the the
bad guys and then goes to another corner and he
racks the slide again, thus guaranteeing he's throwing out a
live round and reducing the amount of AMMO he has
in his gun. And I get it. Directors don't know,
but you would think somebody, somebody involved with this thing
(17:36):
would say, that's not how these guns work. You don't
do that. But I guarantee if somebody saying that's a
nice piece of business to wrack that slide, deal, you're
going to look manly doing that or something.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Or it's the Hollywood twelve gage that holds four thousand rounds.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
That's true. Could be that the belt fed twelve games pump.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I told you about the mistake I saw in Longmire.
Just agree, great series, love it. But he's approaching somebody
and from behind him me, here's the pump action. He
turns around and looks and the guy is holding a
side by side.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Oh no, oh, he probably just played that sound from
his app tactical app. Yeah, sure, sure, yeah. There are questions.
Wasn't the sound from a Remittant or a Mossburg? Yeah,
both of them.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Definitely Winchester. Definitely Winchester.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
There you go. Okay, that's not.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Nearly as egregious as right, like you said that.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Crazy Yeah, it's it's it's like when they show a
jet and they insert the sound of a piston engine
starting on a plane going Really, you do know that
thing does not have any pistons or propellers. Okay, no, sorry, So, Jimmy,
you wanted to get involved in this whole training discussion.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I just want to argue with you, and that happened
to be the topic because all it really textually boils
down to you would made the comment and which I
see the validity to it, but I just I'm a jerk.
I like to argue you had said, if a guy
can't shoot, it's probably not the instructor you want to have.
I'm paraphrasing, but something along those because you should be
able to show you, not just tell you, right.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
And I understand that.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
The flip side to that is I know some people
that are really good instructors that don't in whether it's golf, bowling,
especially in bowling and firearms, where they can watch you
and they can tell you what you're doing wrong and
make you a better shooter without ever picking up a
gun themselves.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
So I mean, why are you saying they are you
saying they don't know how to shoot? Well, they they
can't shoot.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
But they don't they don't show you that they know
what the hell they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I understand that that's a different question. Yeah, okay, you know,
but can they shoot.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
On the shooting thing, yes, on the bowling thing, I know.
I know one golf instructing two bowling guys that are
great coaches. Neither one of the three of them can't
play to save their lives, but they can take special
youths and watch them and say, Okay, well you're crossing over,
you're you know you're doing this, you're doing that, you're
not following through.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
They can see it and teach it.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Can can they get Can they get somebody to break
a three hundred three.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Hundred and one?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
No, but I mean really can they? Can they get
somebody to? My question is, I guess anybody can teach
a kid and make them better. Okay, because you don't
have you don't have much to work with it, don't
have to be very good. But can they make you
a champion level bowler without being a good bowler themselves?
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
No, I see your point. Yeah, I see your point.
I guess I guess I'm focused more on the youth
youth thing because that's where I've seen it more.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah. No, anybody can take somebody that doesn't know anything
and teach them. They're gonna be better than they were.
But the question is can they make you really good
without being a good shooter? In my position is no,
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So, right, And I see the reasoning there because had
they had they learned all these extra little tricks that
a novice doesn't know, they would have implemented them in
their training.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Therefore they know how to shoot.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I get what you right, and you get one of
the things that you'll hear people say instructors. It's a
red flag. If you hear an instructors say this, you going, oh,
I got a problem here. They'll say, for defensive use,
you don't want all the bullets to go through one hole.
You want to spread them out, to spread out the trauma. Okay,
(21:40):
sounds like a guy who can't put all the bullets
through one.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Hole, right And can you imagine defending that with a prosecutor.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Oh yeah, the damage that I could. I didn't want
just to you know, stop, I.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Want to spread them around there. It's spreading up. So
I mean, does anybody think that you're gonna put all
the shots into one hole in the middle of a gunfight.
I think things are going to be, you know, dynamic
and moving, and you know, the best you can do
is going to be trying to keep them on target.
But you know what if all you can do is
put them in a twelve inch circle at ten vyards,
(22:13):
you know, on paper, it's a piece of paper that's
glued on to a cardboard that's stable to stick that's
not shooting back, right.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, well, you know what was that statu you threw
out before about a couple months back about the average
cop involved shooting It is like a fifteen to twenty
percent hit rate, and these guys have to qualify every year.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It's abysmal. Well, they qualify every year because for some
of them that do well, I mean, but they literally
are not shooting very often. I get it that a
lot of people have guns for self defense don't shoot.
They don't take it seriously. They don't think they have
to practice, they don't want to do that. They just
want to have a gun that defends them without them
(22:57):
having to do anything.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
That's interesting perspective.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
They buy a gun and they want it to protect them,
which is really what's going on. They don't want to say,
I'm going to have to spend hundreds of dollars and
hundreds of hours to get good at this so that
I can protect me. I just want to purchase my protection, right, So,
(23:23):
I mean, look, it's always going to be that way.
You're probably you know, who knows what the percentages are,
But I would bet less than three percent of the
people who have a gun for protection every take real training.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yeah, I wonder what that would be.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So what you're saying is like my gym membership, just
signing up doesn't get me in shape.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
You know, I have tried that year after year. You know,
every January here I am again, and every January I
am still not fit and I'm still fat. So there
you go.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, they took the twenty two dollars out of my
account this month, but my waistline is still the same.
Did you go, well, no, but I you know, I
pay my member, but I.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Pay the money. I wonder kind of the same thing.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
When todda was talking about the instructor who was abysmal,
I believe was the term. I was thinking, well, maybe,
you know, he's this insurance seller. Maybe he's like a
concealed carry insurance sales.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
That's what.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
That's what that's what it was because a lot of
these times, a lot of the instructors now are pitching insurance,
concealed car insurance, and that is, honestly how they're really
making their money. Yeah, the commission and they'll take time
out of the class, or sometimes they have somebody come
in from us c c A and they're pitching the
(24:38):
class and the instructors getting a cut out of that.
Of course, I'm looking at I've had that happen once,
and I'm thinking I paid money for this class. I
did not pay money and spend my time here to
be advertised to be sold to.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
If I want that, I would have gone to a timeshare.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It just irritates the hell out of me. Yeah, if
they're going to take time out of my class to
try to sell me stuff, I want to say no, no, no, no.
You can do that during a break, but you can't
do that while we're having the.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Class, right, Yeah, that irked me.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
That was another thing that Todd was talking about that
reminded me of something. It's about how your perceptions changed
when you're in that stressful situation.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
And I was.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Watching this police interrogation video somebody who was a concealed
carry permit. He had drawn his gun and shot and
killed somebody, and he was explaining everything to the police,
and you can tell.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
That he really believed that.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
When he pulled his gun and shot the guy was
charging at him, But the video told a different story.
He'd been pushed to the ground by this guy and
he drew his gun as soon as he drew his gun.
The guy whoa backed up and put his hands up
and started to back and away, and then he shot him.
But he kept insisting, no, he was charging at me
(26:02):
when I shot him, right, And you can tell you
really believed it. He just remembered it that way.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's one of the reasons they tell you don't make
a statement just I mean, chances are you won't be lying,
but you will get things wrong and that will be
perceived as you lying about it. Well, you know what,
cops are not allowed to make a statement, generally speaking
for forty eight hours. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
That's union rule, though, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, yeah, but it was done because they know that
you're you're going to get it wrong. You need time
to process, to decompress. You're not thinking right, and what
you need to say to the cops are Look, I
will certainly come in and make a statement. I know
this is important, but I just don't feel like I'm
up to it right now. You know. Can we set
up a time when I could come in with my
(26:53):
attorney and if they said, well, no, we got to
get the statement now or we're gonna have to take
you to jail, he said, Well, I understand. You gotta
do what you got to do. But I'm not making
a statement now. Even if they say we're gonna put
cuffs on you, we're gonna take you to jail. Go
spend a night in jail, But don't make a statement,
because you could talk yourself into prison.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Right, Well, that's a perfect time to puke on their shoes.
They're not gonna want to take you in. They're gonna
understand here.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah right. But you know, here's another case where that
messade of Eub's information is good. He will tell you.
He says, Look, people say just shut up, don't say
a word, and a youth says, that's not really what
you need to be doing. He says, there are certain
things you need to say. At the time, you know,
he was over there. You know, I thought he was
(27:37):
going to kill me. Those people over there who are
starting to walk away are witnesses. You need to get
them before they walk away. You know, he threw the
gun and the bushes over there, he threw the knife
over there. That would be a good thing to say
to the police on the scene rather than just shutting
up and saying I'm not going to say a word.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Plus it shows your spirit of cooperatism. It's just you're
not going to show your whole hand. And you've had counsel.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Well, you don't talk about specifically what you did at
any given time because they'll say, well, how many times
did you shoot yourself? I'll shot three times. Yeah, there's
twelve holes on the ground. You know, it's like you
don't know. And Ty was making the point things slow down.
(28:25):
You do get tunnel vision, you do lose all hearing.
People don't get hearing damage in the middle of a gunfight.
They don't even hear the gun.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Go off, right.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That is so weird, it is it's like, how can
that even happen? But it's certainly true.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
It's funny about that that you say that, and there's
no refuting that. However, I still would want a can
like I was using AR fifteen for home defense, I'd
want to can't I'd want a can on it?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, I agree, even while you're not going to hear it.
You just said you're not gonna hear it, But so
what does the matter.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
But yeah, the damage is still Yeah, maybe that you
didn't perceive the noise, but it's still affecting you know,
you it's doing damage to.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Your hearing or somebody else, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
But yeah, but to all that to the point of
you don't really know what happened. You just went through
this traumatic thing, and now you're trying to explain it
to somebody who's going to use your statement to decide
whether you go to jail or not. If you really
don't know what happened. And over the course of the
(29:30):
next twenty four or forty eight hours, you will start
remembering things and putting things back together, and that would
be a good time for you to have the conversation
with the police with your attorney present and never without
your attorney president.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So yeah, there you go.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Going over the basics, which.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
But as they say, what is it today? I learned
that in the middle of a gun fight is a
great time to go through the hall racking shells out
of your shotguns. I'm on the ground.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Well, think of the intimidation sector, right, sound effects well,
and also, you know, you may just have too much AMMO.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Reduction.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
It's a weight reduction thing. You didn't want to you know,
you want to have a speed factor.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, I know, I've got eight rounds in here. But
I think I'm probably gonna only need four, so I've
got to get rid of these two.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Right, all the losses, I can only have five.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So there you go.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
That's right this week.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, it's kind of the opposite of the as you say,
the infinite supply of AMMO that you have with movie guns.
But you know, there are movies and shows that do
a really good job. You know one that people haven't
talked about, the Terminal List. It's Jack Carr, who we've
had on the show a number of times. Of course,
(30:47):
he wrote the book The Terminal List, now the whole series,
and they had the Terminal List Series one. Now they're
having number two is coming out and they're also shooting
a prequel. Well, Jack is involved in these shows. Of course,
he's a former seal and he's got some of his
sealed buddies involved with the shows. And man, they're good.
(31:08):
They really know their stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Right, And I appreciate when I see somebody do something
that's gun accurate. I'm not just talking about the sloppy
muzzle waves and stuff like that that get me upset,
Like the thing about you know, getting rid of your amma,
like you just gave to see them do it right,
you go, Hey, you know, these guys did take the
time to get somebody that knows.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
What the hell they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I just saw a little video clip with Tarren Butler
and he was Terran is the one who trained Kennon
Reeves on all the John Wick movies. Oh okay, and
so I mean he's got it. Arran is a national
champion three gun guy. Okay, so he really knows his stuff.
But he's out in Hollywood. He trains a lot of
(31:50):
Hollywood people. I just saw a piece where he was
working with Jamie Fox and Cameron Diaz of all things Wow,
and they've got a movie coming up, and Cameron Diaz
is rocking in ar moving through and we're talking live rounds,
not blanks.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
What this is? Sweet? Yeah, you know, And that's how
they end up looking good on camera.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, which to me is again has another hypocritical thing.
You're so anti gun, but oh you're going to make
money with a gun scene, Oh, then shoot it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
By all means, they're so inconsequential and in terms of
their opinions, it's like, who would even pay attention to them?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Yeah, I think we're kind of over that. It's entertaining.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I think part of the TDS thing we're seeing right
now has a certain entertainment factor to it.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Oh, without a doubt. So, but I did. It's funny
because I thought about the post office thing when Trump
got elected, and I've got to think about who I
can backdoor that information to you. I would like to
I'd like to get that message to somebody who can
get that restriction taken off.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Hmmm hmmm, here's those wheels turning. Greshiam.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, we'll think of something. We'll get good to somebody.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
When our caller called about the Arkansas exemption for post office,
I'm going for his sake. I hope he's right, because man,
just on hearsay, it would be a horrible way to
spend I.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Just hope you heard your correction.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, because it just it didn't make sense to me
when he said it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Because I thought all federal gun laws trump state but
I guess they do, except for carry zones and.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
That kind of thing. They can have their own ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well, they could have more restriction, but they can't have
less restriction than the Feds.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Right, So all right, well, all right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So I got to go do some shooting on this
new rifle.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Yes, of course that's kind of what I figured. But yeah,
but as.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
In the market on left handed ultra light.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Arms rifles, just because it was a weird caliber, it
didn't have to you know, be a lefty for you
to get it.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, but it helps if it's lefty and weird, that's
even more more specialized. That means that it's gonna be
really difficult to sell when I'm ready to get rid
of it. That's the way I roll Youah, But at
least I can maybe lose money on each one.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Sure, it's been a gun broke for two years. Nobody's
been on it. Nobody knows about.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Why it has a sould. Was that thing we always
say said, there's only one reason something doesn't sell. It's
price too high. Yep, that's the only reason.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
To keep dropping to somebody'll buy it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
That's right. Somewhere between that price and zero, you'll find
a buyer. And if one sell at zero, that's why
we have yard sales.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Ah had some good stuff a yard sales, except the
guns and guitars are always gone first first.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Yeah, that of their total crap. Well, all right, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Go have a great week.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
All right, I'm gonna look up nylon sixty six stocks.
I'm sure they're out there.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
So well, it's a tough time for the stock market.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Oh, we should have gone with that.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
We should have just taken the queue and left too late.
We'll catch you next time for the gun talk after show.
We all can use some training to get better. Take
a training class to be prepared with range Ready. Visit
range ready studios dot com to see our class schedule.
So you've made it through three hours of the regular
show on terrestrial radio and you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Wanted a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
So that's why you found the Gun Talk After Show
podcast where we saved all the best things.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That we can't say on regular radio.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Now here's Tom, Michelle and Jim for the Gun Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
After Show is after showtime. We got Jim Canzie, Tom Henning,
and I am here as well. How about that you
are yeah, yeah, somewhat kind.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Of short of thirty years in kicking.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
So far, so good, right, kicking and screaming.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, well well that too, Yes, exactly tell you what
we're going to get to Todd just a second here,
But I just want to tease after that. I want
to talk about something I just saw and you had
another TV show that had to do with guns and
just left me. I know, I ruined it for my
wife or I just said that's just stupid. She's rolling
(01:11):
her eyes. I'll tell you about that in just a minute.
But we got Todd who called in and we want
to go ahead and pick this thing up. Hey Todd,
thank you for your patience. Man, I appreciate you being
part of the after show.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
Well, I appreciate you. You kind of stole my thunder
with the CCW lasering the audience story because this kind
of a similar situation happened with me. So I'm retired
law enforcement out of California and my friend who has
also retired law enforcement at Calgary both firearms instructors and
armorers for our department. We moved up here to Oregon
(01:43):
and she says, hey, let's go take the local concealed
carry classes put on by the local police department, and
so we'll check out what the local laws are. And
we didn't tell anybody who we were. And so it's
a classroom of about thirty people. I'm sure most of
them have never even touched a gun before, and it's
inside the police Department's usually taught by a cop, and
(02:04):
they're one of their firearms instructors who's not a cop.
He was an NRA reinstructor, insurance salesman. In any case,
the cop was sick, so it was all on the
shoulders of this poor insurance salesman who I guess had
dreams about being a cop. And he's got he's got
the table set up with all of his personal guns
(02:27):
for show and tell, and you know, he's given us
a little speech about what's going on. He never demonstrates
that the guns are unloaded or in a safe condition.
And then he says, Okay, you know, anybody wants to
come up here and handle the guns, I'm going to
take a quick potty break up right back. You kidding me.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Of these guns at all.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
He's not even there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
He's not insuring safety or into the here's just hey,
everybody here, do whatever you want to do with these guns.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
And then I you know, I could have walked up
there and just slipped one into my or something. But
in any case, you know, he kept my My friend
went a excrement on that one. But then he comes
back and you know, we just we just you know,
you know, just cool our jets and listen to what
this guy has to say. And one thing, a little
(03:18):
off topic. He he was talking about how delighted he
was that that department, I will not mention went to
nine millimeter from forty caliber because the scores, the shooting
scores at the range went up and of course, I'm
thinking in my head, we always we always carried forty
caliber from my department, and we were totally fine. I
(03:41):
think most of the firearms instructors would have preferred forty
five if we could have gotten away with it. But
I felt like saying, hey, buddy, if you want this,
if all you're doing is chasing scores, why don't you
just go to twenty two rim fire. Yeah, I'm sure
the scores will go right through the roof. So it
(04:02):
was kind of It was interesting to go through the class.
But you have so much good information about really good ranges,
and they're not necessarily put on by police departments. There
are really good instructors out there that have tons of
military and police experience, real world experience, and they will
not make that mistake ever, well, at least I haven't
(04:25):
seen it. When you had it beaten into your head
about the liability that's hanging over your head. You make
sure you don't laser people, you don't. Everything has to
be totally safe, even I protect when we were doing
armory classes, if we were worried about, you know, springs
going off into people's faces, if you didn't have safety
glasses on, we would have this big feathered dunce cap
(04:49):
that we would put on you for the rest.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Of the class.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
I love and just one of the things before I
go is I know that nine millimeters AMO is much
better than it was in the old days. Masada You
has a fantastic book and if there's a cop listening
who hasn't read it, it's called Stress Fire. It's not
easy to find anymore, but it talks about what cops
go through in real shootings, whether they survived or not.
(05:18):
They diagnose what happened with what's going through a CoP's
mind physically, mentally, how time slows down audio exclusion, you know,
peripheral vision goes down to nothing. It was an amazing book.
He is such an expert, He's such a resource. I
love watching his videos and I recommend them to anybody
(05:40):
who really wants to make a difference in their personal safety.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, Todd, it is one of the puzzle much for me.
And for whatever reason, Masada You remains controversial. There are
a lot of people on the internet who like to
really pooh pooh him and talk him down. He had
no what he's talking about, and I look, go, you know,
how many cases have you testified then you know, self
(06:04):
defense cases or shooting cases where he has been the
expert witness in hundreds, if not thousands of cases, you know,
and I mean he knows what happens in these cases.
He's talked to hundreds or thousands of cops who have
been in shootings. Like you're saying, Todd, he knows exactly
what goes on. And yet there are those who have
(06:25):
no experience whatsoever and love to mock him. I would
just say, if you get a chance to take one
of his classes, and they are instructional on shooting, but
more than that, it's kind of what to do, what
not to do, how to handle yourself, not just in
the shooting part, but the aftermath part. I think Messada
Youube is a treasure that people don't fully appreciate.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Absolutely, And a little bit on that topic I took.
When you're an armory have to every three years, whether
it's your AR fifteen that you're carrying Formington eight seventy
shotgun er hands gone, you have to go through a
course put on by that that company. I took her
cold class. An instructor was the most amazing guy. He
(07:10):
was a cop in Delaware. I believe, and he had
been involved in a lot of shootings, and he's saying
to this classroom full of cops, he said, how many
people have been involved in a shooting? Nobody raised her hand,
and he was astonished. They said, well, when I shot
my first guy, I didn't even have to do a
paper report, and the second guy it was two pages.
(07:32):
The third time I was out on leaves and pyke
tests and multiple reports from these people who have real
world experience. I mean, it's a different world from what
people have been in combat and what people who have
been pushing a patrol car around have. And you know,
the want to be, you know, insurance salesman, but one
(07:52):
of the things totally different subject matter. Like a guy
called up two weeks ago and he was he wanted
to find a two two three Remington rifle with a
slow twist so he could push fifty five grain bullets
out of the barrel as fast as possible. And you
tried to talk them back from that and say, hey,
you know, there are good things about heavier grain bullets.
(08:13):
They more stables, ballistic coefficient, all like that. But if
the guy is listening and he has his heart set
on a slow twist. My favorite bull taxing rifle is
the Remingtons seven eighty eight rifle. I have two and
two to two three a one to twelve twist, fast
lock time rear locking lugs, and he can have a
(08:34):
delightful time with that. When they were going, when they
were taking those off the production line back in the
early eighties, I ran out and bought two of them.
One I shoot, the other one has never been shot
since the early nineteen eighties. It's just sitting there waiting
for me to use it.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The Remadens seventy eighty eight is the ugliest duckling out there.
It is just ugly, and they shoot so well. They
have no business shooting as well as they But you're right,
most people don't remember that it had the shortest lock
time of any boltox and rifle at the time.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
At twenty four inch barrel. And it was affordable and
you can still pick him up on gun Broker one
of those other online sites for less than four five
hundred bucks, in really good shape. And I am so
grateful that I took a Remington class. We've carried eight
Remington eight seventy shotguns by a Remington factory guy he's retired. Now,
(09:26):
what a great last name. His last name was Matchlock
and he was at that He was at that company
for forty years. And he any gun you had a
question about, Oh, the model, the Nylon sixty six. He
was on that production line. He saw every nut and bolts,
the Remington seventy eighty eight. But and then he pulls
(09:49):
out his I mean, there are some really good people
out there. And he showed me his own personal range
that went out to six hundred yards. And the guy
that taught the cold class there, I'm awesome. ATF Agents.
He was also a former ATF Agent and I won't
give his name, but he showed on his PowerPoint his
personal gun collection. Of course, everything was collected legally. He
(10:13):
had a machine gun collection that would rival the National
Rifle Association. Wow, multiple million dollar collection. And he had
two daughters and he said, and don't think you're going
to marry one of my daughters and inherit this. They
are tough as nails. They'll eat you alive.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh lordie, Well that is great, good, good information. But yeah,
you know, back to our main point, which is you
when you're let me ask you this question, though, that
class as you took with the concier carry class. I'm
guessing that some of the people who took the class
came away thinking, man, that guy was smart. He really
knew his stuff, because they don't have any way to
(10:57):
compare it with anything else.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
Oh, they were just people in off the street that
just wanted to get an Oregon. At the present time,
it's very easy to get a concealed carry, and you
can open carry. I'm sure that'll change in the near future.
But you could tell these people were totally green. And
that's the first meet I'm telling you what you already
know in ninety nine percent of your audience. The primary thing,
(11:19):
your greatest responsibility is safety, and if you want to
preserve the Second Amendment, you have to be as safe
as possible. If we're reckless, people are going to seize
on that. Who want to take away.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
All right, screw up, screw and oupe. By the way,
for those who are listening, I have an Oregon carry
permit and I don't live in Oregon. And people say, well,
they don't issue no, Yeah, actually they do. If you
live in a state that is contiguous with that is
touches Oregon, you can get an Oregon carry permit.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Hey, y yep, Todd, before you run off, I did
learn something from me.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I wanted to thank you.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I learned that most insurance salesmen don't offer an intermediate
concealed carrier.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
Course, what scared me. What scared me is that he
would do ride alongs with the cops. And it's just like, dude,
you know he's probably caring too. It's just like, you know.
I almost went up to the fire the chief of
police there, and said, look, if you need help, I'll volunteer.
(12:22):
You might want to keep it in house with people
who've actually done the job right. Oh.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
One other thing I got to share with you, because
you mentioned nine verses forty one of my favorite quotes.
I was doing some work with a guy had a
lovely British accident. Turns out he was British Special Forces
and those guys are some tough sobs. And he says,
I don't know why people bad mouth the nine millimeter
(12:49):
because everyone I ever shot with one died.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Well, you know in the miaf hey talking about Massada,
you is dying. His breakdown of the Miami Dade shooting.
Oh yes, he said, it wasn't that those guys weren't dying,
they just weren't dying fast enough, quick enough.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
A bad guy.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
They kept fighting even though they were dying. They kept
shooting the FBI ag.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
And absolutely, you're not. Your goal is not to kill somebody,
it's to stop the threat. And it's one forty five
of two hundred and thirty grains knocks them off their
feet and stops the fight right then and there. Fine,
if they survived, great, But just peppering them with bullets
and having them die after they keep shooting people, that's
not good. Like the North Hollywood shootout, which I was
(13:39):
actually very close to that while it was going on,
I was watching it live on TV, and right down.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The street we just observed the another anniversary of the
New Hall shooting, which change police tactics forever.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
Well, I have one quick story on the New Hall shooting.
I met the guy, a CHP officer I won't mention
his name, who the next officer unseen after the four
had been murdered, and he saw the four CHP officers
laid up, laid out on the floor of a doctor's
office out there. And New Hall was a very rural
area at the time. One of the two bad guys
(14:14):
had been shot and wounded and was brought to the
doctor's office and the doctor said, I won't treat him,
take him to Los Angeles, and so he took a long,
painful ride and just a takeaway. And that's also in
Massada Eube's book of that New Hall shooting. The only
person who shot and wounded the one guy the cops
(14:35):
killed the other one was a citizen in a trailer
that the guy was trying to hijack. Citizen wounded one
of the bad guys.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Basically, and you're right if you go on Amazon and
pick up any of Messada Eube's books, and you're not
going to be disappointed. My thought on that, Todd, we
got a run here. Look, I appreciate it's been a
great call. Thank you so much, sir. All right, you
take you all right, we'll take quick break here. When
we come back, go on. Talk about movie gun stuff
that makes me scream.
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Speaker 2 (15:49):
Okay, So I mean, I I know this is just
a pet pave peeve of mine. Well, actually I think
it probably bothers a lot of people we're watching. And look,
I like Child's books, I like the Reacher series. I
like the franchise and enjoy reading his books. And you know,
Tom Cruise was lousy because Jack Reacher, this guy is
(16:11):
supposed to be like this big, huge guy, and Tom
Cruise is a shrimp. But the TV series started off
not bad. It's on Prime. Now we're into the third
season and it's garbage. It's the only thing I can say.
I don't know if they got different writers or whatever,
but for whatever reason, we watched the whole thing. Watched
the last one last night. So here's the scenario. Jack Reacher,
(16:34):
former Military MP, Army MP, Goodwood Guns. He's got a
house full of bad guys. He's going in he's already
shot several of he grabbed a shotgun. He's shotgun in
these guys. As he's going through the hallway. He's in
the middle of a gun fight. Right at a prime moment,
he racks the slide of a shotgun. So one of
(16:55):
two things happened. Either he was carrying an empty chamber unlikely,
or if it wasn't an empty chamber, he just threw
a live round out right. Okay, so that's great. So
he racks the slide. I guess that's to tell him
he really means business.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Now, Yeah, now I'm serious.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know. And so he shoots one of the the
bad guys and then goes to another corner and he
racks the slide again, thus guaranteeing he's throwing out a
live round and reducing the amount of AMMO he has
in his gun. And I get it. Directors don't know,
but you would think somebody, somebody involved with this thing
(17:36):
would say, that's not how these guns work. You don't
do that. But I guarantee if somebody saying that's a
nice piece of business to wrack that slide, deal, you're
going to look manly doing that or something.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Or it's the Hollywood twelve gage that holds four thousand rounds.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
That's true. Could be that the belt fed twelve games pump.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I told you about the mistake I saw in Longmire.
Just agree, great series, love it. But he's approaching somebody
and from behind him me, here's the pump action. He
turns around and looks and the guy is holding a
side by side.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Oh no, oh, he probably just played that sound from
his app tactical app. Yeah, sure, sure, yeah. There are questions.
Wasn't the sound from a Remittant or a Mossburg? Yeah,
both of them.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Definitely Winchester. Definitely Winchester.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
There you go. Okay, that's not.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Nearly as egregious as right, like you said that.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Crazy Yeah, it's it's it's like when they show a
jet and they insert the sound of a piston engine
starting on a plane going Really, you do know that
thing does not have any pistons or propellers. Okay, no, sorry, So, Jimmy,
you wanted to get involved in this whole training discussion.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I just want to argue with you, and that happened
to be the topic because all it really textually boils
down to you would made the comment and which I
see the validity to it, but I just I'm a jerk.
I like to argue you had said, if a guy
can't shoot, it's probably not the instructor you want to have.
I'm paraphrasing, but something along those because you should be
able to show you, not just tell you, right.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
And I understand that.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
The flip side to that is I know some people
that are really good instructors that don't in whether it's golf, bowling,
especially in bowling and firearms, where they can watch you
and they can tell you what you're doing wrong and
make you a better shooter without ever picking up a
gun themselves.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
So I mean, why are you saying they are you
saying they don't know how to shoot? Well, they they
can't shoot.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
But they don't they don't show you that they know
what the hell they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I understand that that's a different question. Yeah, okay, you know,
but can they shoot.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
On the shooting thing, yes, on the bowling thing, I know.
I know one golf instructing two bowling guys that are
great coaches. Neither one of the three of them can't
play to save their lives, but they can take special
youths and watch them and say, Okay, well you're crossing over,
you're you know you're doing this, you're doing that, you're
not following through.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
They can see it and teach it.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Can can they get Can they get somebody to break
a three hundred three.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Hundred and one?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
No, but I mean really can they? Can they get
somebody to? My question is, I guess anybody can teach
a kid and make them better. Okay, because you don't
have you don't have much to work with it, don't
have to be very good. But can they make you
a champion level bowler without being a good bowler themselves?
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
No, I see your point. Yeah, I see your point.
I guess I guess I'm focused more on the youth
youth thing because that's where I've seen it more.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah. No, anybody can take somebody that doesn't know anything
and teach them. They're gonna be better than they were.
But the question is can they make you really good
without being a good shooter? In my position is no,
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So, right, And I see the reasoning there because had
they had they learned all these extra little tricks that
a novice doesn't know, they would have implemented them in
their training.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Therefore they know how to shoot.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I get what you right, and you get one of
the things that you'll hear people say instructors. It's a
red flag. If you hear an instructors say this, you going, oh,
I got a problem here. They'll say, for defensive use,
you don't want all the bullets to go through one hole.
You want to spread them out, to spread out the trauma. Okay,
(21:40):
sounds like a guy who can't put all the bullets
through one.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Hole, right And can you imagine defending that with a prosecutor.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Oh yeah, the damage that I could. I didn't want
just to you know, stop, I.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Want to spread them around there. It's spreading up. So
I mean, does anybody think that you're gonna put all
the shots into one hole in the middle of a gunfight.
I think things are going to be, you know, dynamic
and moving, and you know, the best you can do
is going to be trying to keep them on target.
But you know what if all you can do is
put them in a twelve inch circle at ten vyards,
(22:13):
you know, on paper, it's a piece of paper that's
glued on to a cardboard that's stable to stick that's
not shooting back, right.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, well, you know what was that statu you threw
out before about a couple months back about the average
cop involved shooting It is like a fifteen to twenty
percent hit rate, and these guys have to qualify every year.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It's abysmal. Well, they qualify every year because for some
of them that do well, I mean, but they literally
are not shooting very often. I get it that a
lot of people have guns for self defense don't shoot.
They don't take it seriously. They don't think they have
to practice, they don't want to do that. They just
want to have a gun that defends them without them
(22:57):
having to do anything.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
That's interesting perspective.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
They buy a gun and they want it to protect them,
which is really what's going on. They don't want to say,
I'm going to have to spend hundreds of dollars and
hundreds of hours to get good at this so that
I can protect me. I just want to purchase my protection, right, So,
(23:23):
I mean, look, it's always going to be that way.
You're probably you know, who knows what the percentages are,
But I would bet less than three percent of the
people who have a gun for protection every take real training.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yeah, I wonder what that would be.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So what you're saying is like my gym membership, just
signing up doesn't get me in shape.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
You know, I have tried that year after year. You know,
every January here I am again, and every January I
am still not fit and I'm still fat. So there
you go.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, they took the twenty two dollars out of my
account this month, but my waistline is still the same.
Did you go, well, no, but I you know, I
pay my member, but I.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Pay the money. I wonder kind of the same thing.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
When todda was talking about the instructor who was abysmal,
I believe was the term. I was thinking, well, maybe,
you know, he's this insurance seller. Maybe he's like a
concealed carry insurance sales.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
That's what.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
That's what that's what it was because a lot of
these times, a lot of the instructors now are pitching insurance,
concealed car insurance, and that is, honestly how they're really
making their money. Yeah, the commission and they'll take time
out of the class, or sometimes they have somebody come
in from us c c A and they're pitching the
(24:38):
class and the instructors getting a cut out of that.
Of course, I'm looking at I've had that happen once,
and I'm thinking I paid money for this class. I
did not pay money and spend my time here to
be advertised to be sold to.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
If I want that, I would have gone to a timeshare.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It just irritates the hell out of me. Yeah, if
they're going to take time out of my class to
try to sell me stuff, I want to say no, no, no, no.
You can do that during a break, but you can't
do that while we're having the.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Class, right, Yeah, that irked me.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
That was another thing that Todd was talking about that
reminded me of something. It's about how your perceptions changed
when you're in that stressful situation.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
And I was.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Watching this police interrogation video somebody who was a concealed
carry permit. He had drawn his gun and shot and
killed somebody, and he was explaining everything to the police,
and you can tell.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
That he really believed that.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
When he pulled his gun and shot the guy was
charging at him, But the video told a different story.
He'd been pushed to the ground by this guy and
he drew his gun as soon as he drew his gun.
The guy whoa backed up and put his hands up
and started to back and away, and then he shot him.
But he kept insisting, no, he was charging at me
(26:02):
when I shot him, right, And you can tell you
really believed it. He just remembered it that way.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's one of the reasons they tell you don't make
a statement just I mean, chances are you won't be lying,
but you will get things wrong and that will be
perceived as you lying about it. Well, you know what,
cops are not allowed to make a statement, generally speaking
for forty eight hours. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
That's union rule, though, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, yeah, but it was done because they know that
you're you're going to get it wrong. You need time
to process, to decompress. You're not thinking right, and what
you need to say to the cops are Look, I
will certainly come in and make a statement. I know
this is important, but I just don't feel like I'm
up to it right now. You know. Can we set
up a time when I could come in with my
(26:53):
attorney and if they said, well, no, we got to
get the statement now or we're gonna have to take
you to jail, he said, Well, I understand. You gotta
do what you got to do. But I'm not making
a statement now. Even if they say we're gonna put
cuffs on you, we're gonna take you to jail. Go
spend a night in jail, But don't make a statement,
because you could talk yourself into prison.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Right, Well, that's a perfect time to puke on their shoes.
They're not gonna want to take you in. They're gonna
understand here.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah right. But you know, here's another case where that
messade of Eub's information is good. He will tell you.
He says, Look, people say just shut up, don't say
a word, and a youth says, that's not really what
you need to be doing. He says, there are certain
things you need to say. At the time, you know,
he was over there. You know, I thought he was
(27:37):
going to kill me. Those people over there who are
starting to walk away are witnesses. You need to get
them before they walk away. You know, he threw the
gun and the bushes over there, he threw the knife
over there. That would be a good thing to say
to the police on the scene rather than just shutting
up and saying I'm not going to say a word.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Plus it shows your spirit of cooperatism. It's just you're
not going to show your whole hand. And you've had counsel.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Well, you don't talk about specifically what you did at
any given time because they'll say, well, how many times
did you shoot yourself? I'll shot three times. Yeah, there's
twelve holes on the ground. You know, it's like you
don't know. And Ty was making the point things slow down.
(28:25):
You do get tunnel vision, you do lose all hearing.
People don't get hearing damage in the middle of a gunfight.
They don't even hear the gun.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Go off, right.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That is so weird, it is it's like, how can
that even happen? But it's certainly true.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
It's funny about that that you say that, and there's
no refuting that. However, I still would want a can
like I was using AR fifteen for home defense, I'd
want to can't I'd want a can on it?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, I agree, even while you're not going to hear it.
You just said you're not gonna hear it, But so
what does the matter.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
But yeah, the damage is still Yeah, maybe that you
didn't perceive the noise, but it's still affecting you know,
you it's doing damage to.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Your hearing or somebody else, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
But yeah, but to all that to the point of
you don't really know what happened. You just went through
this traumatic thing, and now you're trying to explain it
to somebody who's going to use your statement to decide
whether you go to jail or not. If you really
don't know what happened. And over the course of the
(29:30):
next twenty four or forty eight hours, you will start
remembering things and putting things back together, and that would
be a good time for you to have the conversation
with the police with your attorney present and never without
your attorney president.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So yeah, there you go.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Going over the basics, which.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
But as they say, what is it today? I learned
that in the middle of a gun fight is a
great time to go through the hall racking shells out
of your shotguns. I'm on the ground.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Well, think of the intimidation sector, right, sound effects well,
and also, you know, you may just have too much AMMO.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Reduction.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
It's a weight reduction thing. You didn't want to you know,
you want to have a speed factor.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, I know, I've got eight rounds in here. But
I think I'm probably gonna only need four, so I've
got to get rid of these two.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Right, all the losses, I can only have five.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So there you go.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
That's right this week.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, it's kind of the opposite of the as you say,
the infinite supply of AMMO that you have with movie guns.
But you know, there are movies and shows that do
a really good job. You know one that people haven't
talked about, the Terminal List. It's Jack Carr, who we've
had on the show a number of times. Of course,
(30:47):
he wrote the book The Terminal List, now the whole series,
and they had the Terminal List Series one. Now they're
having number two is coming out and they're also shooting
a prequel. Well, Jack is involved in these shows. Of course,
he's a former seal and he's got some of his
sealed buddies involved with the shows. And man, they're good.
(31:08):
They really know their stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Right, And I appreciate when I see somebody do something
that's gun accurate. I'm not just talking about the sloppy
muzzle waves and stuff like that that get me upset,
Like the thing about you know, getting rid of your amma,
like you just gave to see them do it right,
you go, Hey, you know, these guys did take the
time to get somebody that knows.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
What the hell they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I just saw a little video clip with Tarren Butler
and he was Terran is the one who trained Kennon
Reeves on all the John Wick movies. Oh okay, and
so I mean he's got it. Arran is a national
champion three gun guy. Okay, so he really knows his stuff.
But he's out in Hollywood. He trains a lot of
(31:50):
Hollywood people. I just saw a piece where he was
working with Jamie Fox and Cameron Diaz of all things Wow,
and they've got a movie coming up, and Cameron Diaz
is rocking in ar moving through and we're talking live rounds,
not blanks.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
What this is? Sweet? Yeah, you know, And that's how
they end up looking good on camera.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, which to me is again has another hypocritical thing.
You're so anti gun, but oh you're going to make
money with a gun scene, Oh, then shoot it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
By all means, they're so inconsequential and in terms of
their opinions, it's like, who would even pay attention to them?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Yeah, I think we're kind of over that. It's entertaining.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I think part of the TDS thing we're seeing right
now has a certain entertainment factor to it.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Oh, without a doubt. So, but I did. It's funny
because I thought about the post office thing when Trump
got elected, and I've got to think about who I
can backdoor that information to you. I would like to
I'd like to get that message to somebody who can
get that restriction taken off.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Hmmm hmmm, here's those wheels turning. Greshiam.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, we'll think of something. We'll get good to somebody.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
When our caller called about the Arkansas exemption for post office,
I'm going for his sake. I hope he's right, because man,
just on hearsay, it would be a horrible way to
spend I.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Just hope you heard your correction.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, because it just it didn't make sense to me
when he said it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Because I thought all federal gun laws trump state but
I guess they do, except for carry zones and.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
That kind of thing. They can have their own ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well, they could have more restriction, but they can't have
less restriction than the Feds.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Right, So all right, well, all right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So I got to go do some shooting on this
new rifle.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Yes, of course that's kind of what I figured. But yeah,
but as.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
In the market on left handed ultra light.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Arms rifles, just because it was a weird caliber, it
didn't have to you know, be a lefty for you
to get it.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, but it helps if it's lefty and weird, that's
even more more specialized. That means that it's gonna be
really difficult to sell when I'm ready to get rid
of it. That's the way I roll Youah, But at
least I can maybe lose money on each one.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Sure, it's been a gun broke for two years. Nobody's
been on it. Nobody knows about.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Why it has a sould. Was that thing we always
say said, there's only one reason something doesn't sell. It's
price too high. Yep, that's the only reason.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
To keep dropping to somebody'll buy it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
That's right. Somewhere between that price and zero, you'll find
a buyer. And if one sell at zero, that's why
we have yard sales.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Ah had some good stuff a yard sales, except the
guns and guitars are always gone first first.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Yeah, that of their total crap. Well, all right, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Go have a great week.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
All right, I'm gonna look up nylon sixty six stocks.
I'm sure they're out there.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
So well, it's a tough time for the stock market.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Oh, we should have gone with that.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
We should have just taken the queue and left too late.
We'll catch you next time for the gun talk after show.
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