(04/06) HOTL Hour 1

Handel on the Law, Marginal Legal Advice. 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is handle on the law,marginal legal advice where I tell you you
have absolutely no case. All rightnow, this is California, right,
And you would think California would beahead of the curb whenever it comes to
labor law and protecting employees. Andby the way it is, this is

(00:22):
a great place. For example,you go in front of the labor board
here with any complaint against an employer, you're gonna win. I mean,
these administrative law judges labor law judges, and they're not judges like behind a
bench and sitting with the robes.There are people in suits and you sit
in a sort of a classroom placesetting and then you start talking and employers

(00:45):
inevitably lose. So here it's goneeven further protect workers rights. And this
one actually makes sense. This isa bill from San Francisco assembly Member Matt
Hainey, state legislator that will outlinewhen companies can communicate with their employees during
off hours. These are called theright to disconnect laws, which means you

(01:08):
go home and your boss calls you, and it's pain in the ass.
What is he doing. I'm inthe middle of dinner, I'm going to
sleep, I'm watching a movie.You know, I'm in the other room
turning on the computer watching some porno. Leave me alone. I don't want
to hear from you. What thisbill would do require companies to lay out
expected working hours ahead of time,contracts ahead of time, saying we can

(01:33):
we the company can contact you betweensix and eight. That's it. Now.
There are some exceptions if there isan emergency situation, if there is
a last minute scheduling issues. Thereare some car routes, but for the
most part, no, okay.It gives the state labor authorities a power

(01:53):
to investigate fine companies, which theydon't do now that show a pattern of
barging in on the employee's personal time. And okay, a couple of things.
First, of all, other countrieshave already done this. California is
sort of ahead of the curve,and I say it says it normally it
so oies. Other countries have donethis, and the California Chamber of Commerce,

(02:15):
Wow, what a shocker, isagainst it. And here's what they
say. I love this. Thisis the Chamber's official position. The bill
will effectively subject all employees to arigid working schedule and prohibit communication between employers
and employees absent and emergency. Yeah, that's true. And here are the

(02:39):
stringent, right, rigid working conditionsthat they're talking about. The employer can't
contact the employee after eight o'clock unlessthere's an emergency or last minute scheduling.
There's a meeting at nine o'clock.It's been canceled. You go, fine,
we're canceling the meeting, especially ifit's one of those days where you
come to work. Wow. Sothey do it. They're gonna do it,

(03:06):
and I think it's going to pass. I really do. And there
is California. California's a good placeto work for people. California is a
good place to rent homes or apartments. It takes forever, for example,
to evict someone in California the unlawfuldetainers and you have to relocation money.
You go to Nevada and you fileunlawful detainer someone's not paying the rent.

(03:29):
A day and a half later,they're tossed out on the street. Well,
maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit,but for the most part that's true.
All right, let's do it.We have some phone calls. Bob,
Hello, Bob, Yes, whatcan I do for you? I
got fired because I would get vaccinated. Any chance of suing the company or

(03:52):
what's your thought on that? Yeah, Well, first of all, I
think the good news is because you'renot getting vaccinated, you're probably gonna die
of any of the possible diseases thatyou can prevent by not getting vaccinated.
But that's what sides the point.Can you sue the company for getting fired
because of vaccination and anti vaccination?Yeah, you probably can. Now.

(04:14):
It used to be where this wasa health issue, where companies were successful
in saying, hey, people aredying of COVID, I mean just dying
of COVID, and so we havea public health issue. It's very different
today. Can I do it?Yeah? What kind of vaccine? Is
it? Any vaccine? No?Just COVID? Yeah? Have you had

(04:36):
it? But for example, haveyou had a month's vaccination? Maybe when
I was younger? Yeah, becausewell, have you ever had the mumps
and come into work with your ballsthe size of softballs? No, then
you probably have had them mump's vaccination. Yeah. And by the way,

(04:56):
why don't you get vaccinated? I'mjust curious. Oh, I don't believe
in it, and I've heard somany stories about people In fact, they
just talked to a friend of minethe other day too, So his wife
had the vaccination and she just jobdid Wow, So the vaccinations kill you?
Okay, by the way, where'dyou get that? What'd you get
that on? Most of the informationyou're getting is on the internet, right,

(05:20):
No, on the radio. Onthe radio, okay, the radio,
and you're talking about talk radio wherethese people just say yeah, all
right, well you know most ofthem are doctors. You're aware of that
that before you get a job inradio, you actually have to show a
medical degree, you know, yeah, an epademionology degree. Is you want

(05:41):
to let my sub specialty you haveto show? Now, the bottom line
is can you sue for discrimination?I think it's a lot easier today to
do that. And so do youlike your job? Well? That helps
helps if you don't like it,I mean that that helps a lot.

(06:02):
Is it easy to get what doyou do for a living? Can I
ask Bob oh? If but I'ma property manager? I worked out of
my apartment? All right, fairenough? Are their jobs available in your
field out there? Is it goingto be fairly easy to get a job?
Probably? Okay, all right,fair enough? Yeah, you know

(06:24):
if I were you, I'd walkand turn around and maybe sue. Are
you gonna go any place with that? Who the hell knows is an attorney
going to take that job? Yeah, take that on. Probably not.
But you know, I love theanti vax people. I really do.
Anything that's modern scientific medicine, allof it is a fraud, all of

(06:45):
it, as he pointed out.As Bob pointed out, people get the
vaccine, like a friend of hisgot the vaccine. Wife just died right
there. Vaccine caused her to die. You know what they should do when
they do Oh, that's it,the death penalty. You know, there
is a cocktail they use. Theyshould instead put someone who has been condemned

(07:10):
to death, put them on theon the gurney, and just give them
a COVID vaccine. Boom, it'sover. Michelle. What can I do
for you? Hi? There,I work for this California and I haven't
had the vaccinations, okay, Andcan I and my employer for the state

(07:30):
of California force me to get vaccinatedor use by job? Well, okay,
here we go. No one canforce you to get vaccinated. Now,
there are repercussions, but it's afree country. They're not going to
strap you down and vaccinate you againstyour will. Okay, that's for starters.
The law is really not clear onthis. There have been lawsuits filed,

(07:53):
and judges for the most part havesaid, yeah, you can lose
your job because it's everybody to bereasonable about it, and it's it is
a genuine health issue. Uh,there is a reasonable Uh, there's a
thinking behind the vaccination because COVID,and that's what everybody does, is very

(08:16):
transmittable. Okay, that that's easy, and it's pretty dangerous disease, not
as much as it was before.People aren't popping off and dying. Michelle,
what do you do? Can Iask? I'm an in house nurse,
I go to nations aren't fair enough? How much? How much do
you like your job? I likemy job? Okay? Is are you
willing to lose it because you don'twant to get vaccinated? Are you?

(08:37):
That is your opinion that strong aboutvaccinations? Well, it wasn't so much
about the vaccination because I get flushots when I was little. Yeah,
that's right. You're a nurse.You are a nurse. Oh yeah,
they can say you don't get vaccinated, you're done? Sure, Yeah,
that they can do. I don'tknow if any hospital, any medical facility

(09:01):
that doesn't mandate vaccinations. Have youbeen vaccinated? Never? I mean with
with my child's vaccinations, but notI don't understand. Yeah, yeah,
I mean you got You couldn't goto school if you didn't get your childhood
vaccinations. They just don't let youin the door. Okay, So now
we're talking about what. Let meask THEMBUT what what are you against in

(09:22):
terms of the COVID vaccine. I'vealways wondered about that. I just had
one. I had one caller whosaid he had a friend of his and
his wife died as soon as hegot the vaccination vaccine boom dead. Uh
what is your opposition? Well,mine wasn't about that. Mine was more
of the government telling me what Ihave to do. No government's not telling
you what you have to do.What they're telling you, if you do,

(09:45):
we're going to fire you. Sovery very different than the government telling
you what you have to do.You can go out and get a job
any place. They're not stopping you, they're not strapping you down. They're
saying, if you want this job, you've got to get vaccinated. If
you don't want the job muzzledof youknow, you leave, so and that's
why I if you like your job, and well, no, that's my
job of dursing that for me.What it came down to when they start

(10:07):
paying people to get the vaccination.We've never done that in my fifty six
Okay, fair enough, all right, so now they mandated, and if
you don't want to do that,that's fine. People leave. There were
pharmacists who would not dispense birth controls, just refuse for religious reasons, and
they were taken a court because youhad women that wanted birth control. Here's
a prescription, I'm not going togive it to you, and you know

(10:28):
what the court said, then getout of pharmacy. Now, get a
job where you don't have to Youdon't have to dispense birth control. That's
easy. Now, are there waysaround it? Sure, if there are
two pharmacists in the pharmacy, Iwon't do it, he'll do it,
and there you have an accommodation.But if someone's the only pharmacist and says

(10:50):
no, hey, you're gonna getsued and the plaintiff, the woman's gonna
win. Now does anybody force tomake you dispense a birth control. Go,
but you want a job, youdo it. It's not that complicated.
You know, what if you don'tlike wearing helmets if you're a cop,
what if you don't like an don'tlike wearing a bulletproof vest. They

(11:13):
get in the way, they're hot, they're sweaty. Okay, then you're
not gonna work. It's not realcomplicated. Art, Hello, art,
What can I do for you?Yes? Joying? How's it going?
My aunt passed away about two weeksago. Okay, if i'm a heart
attack in the hospital at the hospitalnear the berber De Center. If you

(11:39):
know what I'm talking about, Ido very very famous, high end hospital.
Yes, go ahead, exactly,and she should received the kidney transplant
at the hospital back and uh,end of the end of the cumber.
Okay and on, yeah, amonth a month afterwards? What happened?

(12:03):
You gotta go a little quicker thanthis, am I other words showing she
she felt disney and she collapsed intheir home, in her home, and
so she done to the hospital.Huh and she died. Uh, she
died like six weeks later. Okay, okay, so what okay? The

(12:24):
thing she went into septic shock.All right, what's your question before accept
right before septic shock? Uh,the Gary dialysis again okay, but they
delayed the treatment. Okay, sowhat what's your question? What's your question?
Are you any are they any chancesbe lost? So against against them?

(12:48):
And who's gonna sueinently the host,my my, my cousin? Okay,
all right, people related children,spouses, okay, parents, Yeah,
that sort of thing. Are thereany chances? You know, I
don't know, but you got toget a cardiologist that says what they did
is what caused the death or itthe well noise? What they did,

(13:09):
they cause the death and not anythingelse, you know, not an outside
force. Not she could have goneX number of patients go through septic shock.
So you got what you have todo is you have the lawyer the
practice medical malpractice and uh, he'sgonna look at what happened to your end,
probably get some kind of doctor involved, and we'll probably tell you the

(13:31):
same thing that I'm telling you.You don't have a case. Uh,
it's really difficult metal malpractice. Andyou're talking about you know, doctors,
they release you dialysis and they're alwaysgoing to say this is reasonable care and
it just turned out wrong. Allright. Let me tell you about technology.
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(13:52):
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(14:13):
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(14:37):
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handle net suite as an office suiteesNetSuite dot com slash handle. Jerry,
Hello, Jerry, Thank good morning, Jerry, Good morning Bell, Thanks
for taking my call. Sure.A quick question. I have a neighbor

(14:58):
who thinking about opening up her ownbaseball and just servicing pedicures, manicures,
spatials. The building that she's thinkingabout leasing, the doorways do not meet
ADA minimum requirements only thirty inches.Yes, she's contacted a contractor to see
what it would cost to widening thedoors and update the bathroom to meet ADA

(15:24):
compliance laws. The question that sheproposes is that to all of the doors
into your doors need to be thirtytwo inches. No, No, one
door works. One door works ifbecause that's you're making reasonable accommodations for someone
in a wheelchair and you only needone entrance. That's it. As long

(15:48):
as they take ye, go ahead. Well, well the bathroom door needs
to be widened, and then andthen the rooms that she's going to provide
the services one doors one just okay, you need his way. Yeah,
And I mean there are lawsuits outthere, you know, for example,
you know, double amputees, peoplewho have lost hands and the spot refuses

(16:11):
to do the manicure. That's alawsuit. But short of that, she's
your friend's gonna be fine. Okay, thanks, h Yeah, not a
problem. Yeah, it's reasonable accommodations. That's what the ADA says. Uh.
Now, if you have a ramp, you know, those are reasonable
accommodations to get in. And onedoor works. We have a restroom here

(16:34):
on this floor, and there areseveral restrooms on the floor. One is
one has a door that fits awheelchair. You know, I don't know
if every bathroom has a stall.You know, I'm trying to remember,
Jacob. Do you know if becauseI know you you rarely go to the
bathroom, usually in the hall againstthe wall. But is does every bathroom

(16:56):
here have a stall? Yeah?Every bathroom at least two Okay, I'm
no, not a stall, astall. I'm talking about a handicap stall.
Oh, just one stall for ahandicap. Yeah, but that's in
it is that in every battery restroom, in every restroom here in the building.
Okay, If you have any questions, legal questions, so you can
just ask Jacob here on handle onthe law, Jacob being my board engineer

(17:18):
extraordinaire. Oh yes, John,Hi John, John, thanks for taking
my call. Sure, yes,can you enter? Yeah, perfectly.
Hey, my mom seventy five yearsold for the past ten years now she's
head. She's legally blind in botheyes. She went through many surgeries,

(17:41):
the very last surgery she had,which I don't know I's allowed to say
the name of the hospital, butit's very large in southern California. Yeah,
you don't have to because you sayand you're wrong. We're both going
to get sued. I don't careif you get sued, but you know,
I don't want to be part ofit, all right, and it
doesn't matter anyway. Okay, Souh, let's let's go on on that
one doctor performed the surgery for mancularthe generation, came back later after several

(18:11):
follow ups, and said, sorry, I messed up. You're legally blind
in both eyes for the rest ofyour life. WHOA, she's been there.
The hospital fired the doctor. Mymy mom has no interest in doing
a lawsuit. A lawsuit. She'sshe feels as though she's too old.
She just wants to live her lifeand enjoy her grandkids. I'm I'm the

(18:34):
one the grandkids. She can't seethose grandkids. Yes, that's right,
that's right. So she legally shewent blind the day her first grandchild was
born. So it's just a horribleSure, yeah it is. It's horrible.

(18:55):
So what what's what's your question?John? She won't sue? What's
your she she won't. But I'mfinancially responsible for my mom? Why I
have spent Why are you financially responsible? Low income? They're low income.
I've spent thousands a second their lowincome and ways, the fact you're helping
is one thing and a moral responsibility. I took care of my mom for

(19:18):
many years. She didn't die soonenough, soon enough. Unfortunately, unfortunately
I spent a fortune. How areyou responsible? Has the state mandated that
you pay? No? No?No, So, for example, the
hospital that she was attending was veryfar away from the house in order for
her to have follow up appointments.I helped them buy a house. But

(19:41):
you help them, you help them, You help them voluntarily. You're not
mandated to do anything, John,That's just you volunteered to do it.
Plenty of people say no, I'mnot interested. You know, here's your
stick with it, you know thered tip, and just go out and
do yourself whatever you do. Sowhat is your question? That's me?
Uh? Have being misspoken here?Okay? I feel as though I'm as

(20:08):
a son, right, I alwayswant to do everything in life? No,
Yeah, you're a great guy,John, don't want Yeah, of
course you do. So what's yourquestion to alleviate some of the stress in
her life for things they cannot afford? Okay, I supplement medical item,

(20:29):
you voluntarily do that? What Sowhat's your question? I would like to
sue on her behalf. Yeah,I can't. She's the only one that
has standing to sue. John.The only way you're going to be able
to sue on her behalf is geta conservatorship where you determine everything in her
life. Then you can sue.The problem is that she is lucid.

(20:51):
Is she have cognitive abilities? Anduh, you go in for a the
conservative ship, they're going to askyou know, there'll be someone assigned to
determin and a doctor is going tobe assigned, or you find a doctor
that's willing to say, yeah,she can't make it. But she cannot
make her own decisions. She isincapable of making her own decisions. John.
She doesn't want to sue. Shedoesn't want to sue. It's not

(21:11):
that complicated. Plenty of people don'twant to sue. And you don't mean
you don't have to help her.There is nothing that forces you to help
her, so right, Yes,I don't have to, but that's right.
I want to. Of course youdo. You're a good government,
unlike me, you like your parents. I get it. No, yeah,
you got nothing there, I meanabsolutely nothing. Jack, Hello Jack,

(21:37):
Hey Bill. I'm thinking about rentingmy house. Okay, And it
has a can you hear me?I can? Yeah, So it has
it built a jacuzzi in the backyard. No pool, just a jacuzzi.
What is my liability for slip andfall? God forbid somebody drown? Your
liability is you turn her over toyour insurance company. You get lots and

(21:57):
lots of insurance. You let themknow it's not your primary residence, and
you ensure the hell out of yourhouse. And if it turns out someone
does slip and fall and they drownor it doesn't matter what accident they are,
of course you're going to get suedbecause that's just what everybody does.
Insurance company takes over. And ifit's a flaky suit, as in they

(22:17):
didn't take care of themselves, theywere drunk when they got into the jacuzzi,
I mean whatever, the insurance companydefends it. And unless you've done
something wrong, and nothing's going tohappen, you know, So just get
insurance. Just get insurance, lotsof it, Okay, And it's not
that and it's not that expensive either. Uh, Frank, Hey, Frank,

(22:41):
good morning Bill. Yes, sure, yes, I got a little
problem here. My neighbor has aretaining wall that was built in nineteen seventy
four. It was excavated in hisproperty and it's leaning over and my garage
is actually holding it up. Okay, if it wasn't for my garage,
if it was for my garage,it would have been already. And so

(23:06):
he said it's a shared wall.No, it is it on his property.
It's on his property. It's nota shared wall. It's not a
shared wall. It's his wall.That's what I told him. It was
excavated in his property. Well youdon't know that. I mean, you
don't know that for a fact.The only way you're gonna do know that
is have a survey. Or youcan go to the city and when they

(23:29):
subdivided the property, there's the survey. You know, there's probably markers out
on the street too. You'll seethese little metal markers that. Yeah,
then you if you follow the marker, follow the markers straight down your property
line. And if his wall ison the other side of that line,
not even imaginary, imaginary, justthat line, if you were to draw

(23:49):
it, if it's on the otherside, if it's on his side,
it's his wall. That's all.He's responsible for everything that. Yeah,
he's saying that he got a quoteand it's going to be one hundred thousand
dollars. That's that's his Probably you'renot responsible for half of it. Frank's
vegetation too. It's his it's all. It's all his property, Frank,

(24:11):
all of it. It's all hisresponsibility. It's his wall. Okay,
that's like saying you have never mind. I don't even want to go into,
uh, the analogies here because theysuck. I have a terrible analogy
that I came up with. It'suh. I probably lose my ability to
broadcast if I came up with it. Uh. Oh. Phone numbers,

(24:33):
we actually have a few. Anumber open here, eight hundred and five,
two zero, one, five,three four, Liz your turn.
Hello, is welcome the show?Yes, yes, you hey. I've
called you about this issue a coupleof times. Let me give you time.
Hold on. You called me aboutthis issue a couple of times,
and you're calling me now for athird time. This is a third time

(24:55):
because the problem continues to happen.Let me let me give you the timeline
pressure on this. Okay. Itstarted in the fall. The mobile dairy
Cow on Campus program came to mygrandson's school. The goal of the program
is to get kids to consume moredairy. I objected and told the prinip
I remember, I remember, andthey talked, okay, and they tossed
you, and they tossed you out, and they tossed me. So I

(25:15):
went to the board and I fileda complaint. Next, okay, I
went to the school board again totell them. I went to the school
board to tell them that I hadbeen that I had been threatened to be
commute, banned and excommunicated. Thenit actually, you know, you know,
excommunicated is a little strong for fightingcows coming onto the eide. So

(25:37):
well, let me tell you howthat happened. I don't care. I
don't care that you you wait wait, wait wait wait, Bill, you
objected, you got tossed. Youwent to the board. Now went to
the board. What did the boardsay? The board said, I went
to a planning meeting. I metthe vice prince vice president of the board,
and he said, hey, Iheard you. I'm also lactose intolerant

(26:00):
and I'm working on it. I'mgoing to go to a school garden conference
and we're going to advocate for nondairy alternatives. I got letters support them
day apply Okay, Okay, Iwon that. So now I'm doing research
for a book I'm writing called blackBelt and Tofu Today's plant based, protein
rich alternative to meet seafood, eggsand Dairyes, that, boy, there's

(26:22):
a title for a book that reallyflies, I know entirely July. Okay,
great, great, all right.So now what I'm writing the research
for the fishing in about the fishingindustry for my seafood section. Okay.
And on the school social media platform, a parent makes a post, Hey,
we're looking for donations for a fishingpackage for parent auction night. And

(26:48):
I said, wow, I justtook a deep dive into studying the fishing
industry. Here are two pages ofwhat I've been working on. A parent
wrote back and said, read theroom. No one cares about your propagain.
Okay, So and then the principleshut me off. All right,
locked me out of emails and totallyexcommunicated. Okay, what do you want
to do? What do you wantto do? First of all, I

(27:08):
want to ask you. I hadno idea that there's a lot of dairy
in fish, a lot of dairyproducts. But I'll take your word for
it. It's dairy, it's meatand therey. Okay, got it.
So so you've been locked out.Okay, you've been locked out and excommunicated.
Uh that's in quotes. So what'syour question? And it caused it
caused a hostile learning environment for mygrandson. Yeah, okay, I asked

(27:34):
him. Okay, okay, okay, I got it. What's your question?
Is there a lawsuit there? Nominationor no? No, take your
grandson to another school, because ifthey locked you out and somehow your grandkid
gets hassled, it's bullying, that'sall. It's straight bullying. If your
kids, So you go after thekids that are bullying it bullying him,

(27:55):
and it doesn't matter for what reasonthey're bullying. The principle of the thing
that's, by the way, that'schapter four. After fish and dairy and
insects or whatever the hell you elseyou're writing, Chapter four is the principle
of the thing. All right,Liz, that was number three that she
called. This is getting delicious,isn't it? Oh? Yeah, here

(28:18):
we go. Gabby, Hi,Gabby, Oh hello, good morning,
thanks for taking my call. Listeningfor your show. My daughter got hit
by an uninsured driver, and mydaughter's deductible as one thousand dollars. We're
wondering if we could do small teamscourte the driver. It's sort of offering
to maybe pay. But she's asingle mom and all that. But if

(28:41):
she offers to make payments, help, can we guarantee that? You know,
you can't guarantee a thing. Youcan't guarantee a thing. Whatever she
offers, you go after the uninsured. You have an insured motorist, clearly,
I don't know if that's under comprehensive. I'm trying to remember what my
policy is for uninsured motors, soI pay my deductible. Yeah, I
don't do PI. Frankly, Idon't remember. But yeah, you can't

(29:03):
force someone to pay you. Imean, you can sue them, but
you've got a single mom. Youknow what kind of money you're gonna get.
You know, this is yeah,yeah, and it's just bad it's
just bad luck. You know,you're much better off getting hit by an
Amazon truck and having your and losingyour arm. That's a good lawsuit.
We're losing your legs and your arms. So you used to become a human

(29:26):
torso that's a good case. Butyeah, you got to go have to
your motor It's all you can doin something wrong place, wrong time.
And there are people that call me, I don't have insurance, bill,
I only have liability, and I'vejust been hit. And the other driver
is someone who doesn't have insurance anddrives in nineteen seventy two Nova and clearly

(29:48):
is poor as a mouse, asa church mouse. I don't know where
they got that. By the way, we're church mice support. But you
know, what are you gonna do? You get insurance, that's what you
do. Now, let me telltalk about pain, really living in pain.
Now, pain to me is verydifferent than someone who is suffering from
chronic pain, debilitating ch chronic pain. And there are plenty of people out

(30:10):
there that do. Matter of fact, I'm finding out how many. If
you happen to live in chronic painor know someone who does, let me
suggest the Pain Game podcast It's ashow about living in with chronic pain and
trauma that usually causes it, andjust being around those people. It's funny,
it's encouraging, inspirational, educational.It's not about whining. Clearly,

(30:32):
it's not about me. I dowant plenty of whining. I've known the
host, Lindsay Soprano, and I'veknown her for many years, and she
is so good at this. Shesuffers chronic pain, debilitating twenty four to
seven chronic pain, and then takesher pain and does something helps people.
Her guests range from experts to lawyers, stay at home moms, all who

(30:52):
have either lived with, or dealwith or treat those people living with pain
and suffering from that trauma. Israws reel, but every episode ends with
a message of hope. That's whyit's worth listening to. People get a
lot of hope out of this.You'll understand what and this is counterintuitive.
You'll understand that the show is actuallyabout giving pain purpose. I know that

(31:14):
sounds a little weird, but listento this show and you'll see what I
mean. A new episode drops everyTuesday morning. Listen on the iHeartRadio app
or any place you listen to podcasts, The Pain Game Podcast. That's the
Pain Game podcast. This is Handleon the Law