June 25, 2025 • 35 mins
Joining me for this episode are certified professional dog trainers and authors, Kathy Callahan and Helen St. Pierre. We have a chat about their new book, Old Dog, New Dog. Kathy and Helen teach us how to best support our aging best dog friend, while welcoming a new puppy to their new forever home. From deciding the right time to add another dog, doing what’s best for your aging dog, committing time and energy to the new pup and how to say goodbye to your older dog when the time comes. Have a listen and learn a lot. Enjoy!
EPISODE NOTES: Kathy Callahan & Helen St. Pierre - Old Dog, New Dog
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EPISODE NOTES: Kathy Callahan & Helen St. Pierre - Old Dog, New Dog
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/animal-writes-animal-writers-and-best-selling-authors-pets-animals--6666984/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. I'm super
excited about the show because I've got some great professional
certified dog trainers coming on talking about their latest book
and the ins and outs of how do you blend
a old dog and a new dog into one happy family.
Of course, we're talking about professional trainers and authors Kathy
(00:29):
Callahan and Helen Saint Pierre, and we're gonna be talking
to them about their latest book, Old Dog, New Dog,
Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a new one.
So super exciting, great information to have, especially for those
of us that have gone through unfortunately animals in our
lives that made their transition or are about to make
their transition, but yet a new puppy comes along, which
(00:51):
is a whole new ball game. So we're gonna pick
the brains a little bit about all that find out
about the book and we'll sort of take it from there.
So everybody hang tight. We'll come back right for this
commercial break. You're listening to Animal Rights on Petlife Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
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Speaker 4 (01:49):
Let's talk pets on petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Welcome back to animal rights on Petlife Radio. Pa'm joining
me now is certified professional dog trainers and family dog
Mediators of course, authors of the latest book, Old Dog,
New Dog, Supporting your aging best friend and Welcoming a
new one.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Welcome to show, Kathy Callahan and Helen Saint Pierre.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Thank you. We're delighted to be here.
Speaker 7 (02:15):
Yes, thank you so much. I'm really excited to chat today.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I love the book and I
love the format of the book because there is as
I read through everything, you know, I've experienced this myself
and trying to make these decisions on what to do
when an animal is a dog of ours or an
animal in our life, is getting ready to make their transition.
They're getting a little bit older. So when you get
the new one, how do you and then how do
you go about doing that? And I also reflect back
(02:39):
to those days where I let that gap go for
quite a while and then decided, hey, let's get a puppy,
and then realized, oh my god, what did I well?
I was I thank you? So yeah, So tell us
a little bit about the book in general and the
concept how you came about putting it together.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
So Helen and I were both present venting at a
dog conference. Believe it or not, there are things called
dog conferences. I did not know that till like Fers
movie and I was presenting on puppies. She was presenting
on oldies, and our talks melded so beautifully together. You know,
the beginning of life, the end of life. It requires
a lot of the same stuff from the humans and
a lot of the same kind of attention. And we
(03:22):
got together at the coffee break at that conference we
were like, wait, hang on, we have to do a
book together because we both often get that question that
you were just talking about, which is your beloved old
dog is starting to age, and it makes you think, wait, shoot,
we'd better Is this the right time for a puppy
because you want to soften that loss for your household,
(03:44):
and you love the idea of your sweet old friend
teaching the youngster, and it makes it sort of feel
like it's a little bit less of a loss. So
your impulses do do that, but is it the right thing?
Because we have both the advice that we both get.
So people ask us this question all the time. They
ask me because I'm puppy person, her because she's an
old dog person, although we both do all of it,
and our answer is identical, which is it depends, which
(04:07):
is completely unhelpful to whoever asked us that question. So
we decided we wanted to have a resource, the kind
of thing that we would have loved to place in
the hands of those people asking that question, because it's complicated.
Dogs are individuals, humans are individuals. Everybody set up as different.
It really depends a heck of a lot on how
(04:28):
is your old dog doing, what shape are they're in,
what kind of bandwidth do you have in your household
to manage this situation? If the puppy turns out to
be way more than you thought, or if your old
friend's old friends starts to decline a little bit more
than you anticipated. So the book talks about managing this
situation however it goes. So we hope it goes beautifully
(04:49):
for you. Sometimes it's absolutely phenomenal, but we want to
help set you up for the challenges that are going
to arise when you do try to manage both ends
of the spectrum at the same time.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, the challenge of it, I find not only trying
to manage it as far as like the dogs are concerned,
because as you mentioned it, they have their own unique personalities.
Just because you have two of the same breed, we'll say, yeah,
there'll be some characteristics that may be breed driven, but
for the most part, you know, everything's their own unique personality.
(05:20):
And then how do you make that tough decision Because
if you have a dog that is elderly, you know,
is going into the twilight of their years and maybe
they've got some health problems and things of this sort,
that's a full time job, full time money commitment, full
time everything commitment. And then you bring a puppy into
play and you have all that commitment too, that's a
financial commitment and a time commitment, and trying to make
(05:44):
that balance on Okay, what is the best thing to do?
So how do you really I know it's each individual situation.
Each individual person has to decide and family has to decide.
But what are some of those key factors to help
them make that decision? Okay, is this the right opportunity
for our family?
Speaker 7 (06:03):
There's a huge benefit for the human side versus the
dog side per se when we're making those decisions. And
I think that we often in our society, we don't
talk a lot about death. We don't talk about grief
or deal with grief until.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
After the fact.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
And something that's really beautiful about planning a puppy or
getting a puppy is you kind of are, in that
way accepting some anticipatory grief. You're recognizing that you're coming
into a phase where your life without your current senior
dog is getting closer than it has been before, and
you're thinking about the next step. And so I think
(06:40):
that for many people, thinking about getting another dog or
getting another puppy isn't necessarily when we know this for
the senior dog, but for them and so there is
no necessarily right or wrong answer. You just have to
say that. Look, if you have a very very old
dog that is blind or death and can't walk well
and is very small, and you've decided to help your
(07:03):
heart with the loss of that dog in a few
months or however long, get yourself a Labrador puppy. It's
not that it won't work, but it's gonna look maybe
different than if you have a more spry seeing your
dog and you get a different type of dog that
matches the size, if that makes sense. So there's no
definitely this is the right thing to do, or definitely
this is not. This is completely wrong. It's just understanding
(07:26):
all those variables and looking at it from the human perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I mean, I've got a good friend of mine, she's
a Goldie lover, so all of her pups are Goldies,
and through the years, per sort of way to move
forward with the healing and the prepping and things of
this sort is basically, when her oldest gets a little
bit to that point where we think there's going to
be a transition made somewhere in the near future, she'll
(07:51):
get a new puppy. Part of it when I've asked her,
it's been well. Part of it's the learning process, you know,
the older one can teach the younger one. Though I've
seen the years the older one sometimes says, get away
too much energy. You leave me alone. Absolutely, I've earned
my golden stripes. Absolutely leave me alone. But on the
other hand, I agree that the when the one makes
(08:12):
the transition, it's always going to be hard. You're always
going to think about them. They're always going to be
part of your heart connection. But the puppy at the
very least keeps you super duper busy, so you don't
have to think about it as much.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
I think that's absolutely right. And a lot of people
hesitate and think as they're facing that loss that they
don't want to replace their older dog. And one of
the things we talked about in the book is that
is not what we're doing here. You will never replace
that friend. All these friendships are unique, all these dogs
are unique, and so when you're getting a new puppy,
(08:46):
it is not like it's going to take the place
of that dog. However, you do have love to give,
and it feels terrific to have that. Yes, it's a
distraction and it's the most adorable distraction you can possibly have.
And as long as you kind of get your head
in the space that you understand this is not the
same dog. And sometimes the new puppy does bring on
(09:08):
a fresh kind of last wave of grief. If you
get the puppy after you've lost your older dog, sometimes
it does welcoming a little bit more grief where you
kind of finally process, oh, this is not the same dog.
This is I really I really have lost him. However,
we also believe that these oldies they hang around, they
(09:29):
hang around in the ether and sometimes have a young
puppy kind of bring that back to your like, wait,
hang on a second. You just get this sense anyway,
So I think it is it's a beautiful way to
move forward. And as long as your expectations are this
is a fresh, new, different, unique soul in front of me,
and we're going to move on in a different way
(09:50):
and it will bring you new lessons and new joys.
It won't be the same, it'll be different, but it is.
It certainly helps grief most of the time.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
If you yeah, nothing's get you a puppy. So we'll
just put it that way right there. So going back
to the question on sort of how do you make
those decisions? What are some of the things as an
individual or as a family you should sit down and
sort of consider before doing this, because because you do
have phases, you can bring them on, you know, a
year before and sort of learn the ropes and you know,
(10:22):
get used to having. You know, if you only have
one dog, we'll say, and I, all of a sudden
you have two, how do you manage that? Others will
choose to wait till you know, the grieving process is
a little bit less tender and maybe days, weeks, months
down the road, they'll get the puppy to sort of
move forward on that. What are some of those questions
some of those things you should be asking yourself for
(10:44):
the family should be asking themselves on when is that
timing just right?
Speaker 7 (10:48):
I think bandwidth, how much bandwidth they have in terms
of energy or time for both. You know, it will
very much depend on the disease or the sickness level
of the senior dog. Are they dealing with incomun and
it's already with the senior dog, because if they're already
cleaning up pee and poop for one dog and now
we have a puppy that's also having accidents. Is that
(11:09):
going to be too much, right or what happens if
the senior dog really doesn't like the puppy at first
and it takes some time. Are they okay living in
a gated community for a little while and having gates
back up and going back to like square one for
a bit, you know, and sort of sitting down and saying,
are we okay with this? And you know, hoping for
(11:30):
the best, but let's just plan for the worst. Here's
the worst stuff that could happen, And are we all
okay with that? And that level of work, because as
you said Tim earlier, it's work. Caring for a senior
dog is a lot of work. Raising a puppy is.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
A lot of work.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
It's not that there is a joy in that, Obviously
there is. Otherwise I wouldn't have a senior hospice dog sanctuary,
Kathy wouldn't raise puppies so much. But you have to
really be willing to be in the trenches of that
for a little bit, and everyone in the family should
be okay with that.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I think, yeah, I think that's a good good way
to take a look at it and having those conversations
and making those decisions. They're tough ones, but they can
be exciting ones as well. And having a senior. My
boy Kramer, he passed away in January at the age
of twelve. He's going to be thirteen. He had prostate cancer, okay,
and so we went through months of taking care of him.
(12:23):
Those final weeks, it was up every hour upon the
hour to let him out and so he could go potty,
take his little man pants off. We'll call yeah, let
him have some freedom to feel good about himself. But
you know, I was literally up every hour on the
hour to let him out. Now yet, and we have
another Schnauzer who is thirteen, going to be thirteenth to
(12:46):
end of the month, and she's doing fantastic challenge. There
is there's no way I would could introduce a new
puppy into this household because her energy level is at max.
And the things we weren't able to do with our
boy crame we're at these latter times of his life,
we're now able to do with Dusty because Dusty is
(13:08):
the boss of the house and she is full of
energy and she's like, Okay, now we can go do
things that we weren't able to do. We can't, you know,
demanding park time in addition to our big backyard fence,
backyard time, you know, demanding certain things to happen, or
she's not settled because these are things that we weren't
able to do or we used to do before Ant Kramer,
(13:29):
you know, was unable to do them. So for our family,
trying to make those decisions, you know, it's a tough
one because we've always had dogs, We've always had animals
in our life. But we find great joy in taking
care of just one right now who's very demanding, compared
to trying to go out and get it, get another
puppy and go through that again.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
That's just great because it sounds like you all feel
exactly the same way about this, and this is the
right route for you.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's so great.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
Another family might absolutely go the other direction with that.
And the thing is it is something you need to
talk about and really think. Just as you say, you know,
you're getting the man pants off in the middle of
the night with the old dog, when that can happen
if you are also dealing with a puppy who needs
also needs to wake up in the middle of the
night and go outside. That's just a heck of a lot.
(14:15):
So you just want to be aware what these stages
are going to look like, how they can can unroll
and talk about them and be prepared to step up. Ideally,
it'll work great, you know, ideally when you introduce this,
if you decide to have the two of them, they
will curl up in the bed together and nobody you know,
the old dog has more energy, the puppies thrilled to
(14:35):
have a leader. That absolutely does happen, And we just
want everybody to be prepared for the other end when
it might make a lot more sense for you to,
for example, do what you're doing and really focus on
these years with your dog.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I think that. You know, one of
the things I've seen over the years with with with
clients and people I know and people that work with
rescue and stuff is when you bring a new one,
let alone a puppy, a new introduce a new one
to your family, the expectation of them knowing how to
pick up on everything right away, you know exactly what
to do. You know, doesn't always happen. You know, they
(15:11):
don't know they're in a new place, they don't know
the rules of the house. They don't know even if
they're in a gated community. I love that, Helen. I
will regress back. We have the metal metal gates in
every room of our house that you have the push
plate and that pops open. Those work so fantastic that
even for the short period of time when we didn't
have a dog, we kept them. They're in place now,
(15:32):
they're in every room. Our dogs never go into those
rooms to cause any mischief or anything, but they're wonderful
to have. So we yeah, we definitely live in.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
A gated gap and they make them look so nice.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Now.
Speaker 7 (15:42):
I mean, that's the thing that I have these conversations
with people because a lot of people have, especially if
they've got an older dog that's like fifteen or sixteen,
and they're going to get a puppy, and they and
I talk about gates. They have the idea of these.
Remember the older compression gates were the only ones, or
those white ones that clanked around, and I'm like, no, no, no,
no no. Nowadays you can go to any store and you
will find like beautiful gates that match or decor that
(16:06):
are very aesthetically pleasing that once they're in you don't
really care that they stay there. It doesn't. It just
so the options have changed. And then those people that
had dogs fifteen years ago that now are getting a
puppy are like, oh my god, they didn't have this
stuff even back then. I'm like, exactly, so it's a
lot prettier, good look a lot prettier than it used to.
Speaker 6 (16:27):
YEA, absolutely right, And it is our number one tip
in the book. When you introduce a puppy into a
house with another dog, is that separation. You need to
have those gates because the big thing is you need
to protect the other dog from puppy energy. Puppies are
the cutest thing on the planet. They are also unbelievably rude.
They don't know anything, they don't have any manners, they
(16:48):
haven't learned this stuff. So when they come in, they
are going to be jumping up and biting, wrestling, and
they want to do it twenty four to seven, and
they want to do it with the dog. No matter
how cute fun you try to be as a human,
that puppy's going to keep choosing the dog, and if
you kind of decide to let that go, you're going
to be hurting the potential relationship between the two of them.
(17:11):
So you really want to make sure that the older
dog can always choose whether he wants to interact with
a puppy, and he may choose never, but we hope,
we hope that he chooses it kind of a lot,
and then you can manage it when you can supervise
when they're together and helping them to create that nice relationship.
But if you count on your older dog to be
(17:32):
the babysitter of the puppy, which is a really human
easy thing to do because we're all really busy, and
sometimes that older dog will just keep the puppy busy
for a while. But if you do that, you are
risking taxing your old dog with too much of a
job there. And it's a job they didn't ask for.
They didn't ask for the puppy. We ask for the puppy.
(17:52):
So you just want to for a little while. It's
going to be a heck of a lot of management
that way, to make sure that your older dog can
always whether to interact.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Nice, nice, And I love it. I love that's the
number one tips. So that works out real well. And
the book's full of all kinds of insight and tips
because obviously you guys lived it and are continuing to
live it every single day, and I think those little
tidbits and tips and things to look for are the
important thing. And this is the book Old Dog, New
Dog is definitely one that you want to keep handy,
(18:22):
you know, ear Mark bend down those pages. We need
to buy a second copy. That would be good.
Speaker 7 (18:27):
We like that.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So all kinds of great information there. Well, we're going
to come back right for this commercial break and we'll
talk a little bit more to Kath Callahan and Helen
Saint Peter about the book Old Dog, New Dog. Also
want to talk to them a little bit about writing
and joining together to write such a fabulous book. So
everybody hang tight, we'll come back right for this commercial break.
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Speaker 2 (19:21):
Welcome back to Animal Lights on at Life Radio Tenure
conversation with certified professional dog trainers and authors Kath Callahan
and Helen Saint Peter and their new book Old Dog,
New Dog, Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a
new one. So both of you are professionals, and you've
(19:41):
been around this, and you've been down the road a
time or two, even though you're very very young, we'll
put it that way. When putting the book together, were
there things that are like, Wow, I forgot that, or Wow,
I didn't know that, or things that I was like, wow,
I used to talk about that all the time and
now I don't, and so I need to go back
in my toolbox and and bring those things out.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
So, I mean, we both do live this stuff all
the time, and so this book just kind of fell
out of our brains together. So it did not feel
like that, you know, when I watched her presentation, I
had heard of Helen before, I knew of her work,
and then I met her at this conference. Watched her presentation,
and I loved every word that came out of her
(20:25):
mouth because it felt everything felt so true to me.
We look at things the same way, and so when
we did just even begin talking about the book, it
was just like yep, yep, yep, yep, Like there's no
there was I mean, honest to god, it just kind
of came out because we also we counsel people about
(20:45):
this all the time, and we give the same advice
to people. I mean, she has much more knowledge on
old dogs than I do, and so I wish I
could like just transport her into my client conversations with
old dogs because I don't have the depth of information
on that. But now I have this book to hand people.
So anyway, that's my perspective.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
How about you, Helen, Yeah, it's I mean, and I
said this a couple of days ago. For me with
my work with at the hospice, because I have a
hospice sanctuary, so I'm constantly taking in senior dogs and
assessing quality of life and helping them pass and we
do that out of our homes. So it's a huge
passion project for us. But for me, the most important
(21:25):
thing was the alignment that Kathy had with me on
assessing quality of life and knowing when to make the
right call and standing by you know, humane youth in
Asia and knowing when to do that for our senior dogs,
and she was right in line with me and my
you know, the way that I approach end of life
care for animals and especially dogs. So that was huge
(21:48):
for me because this information, the work that I do
on a daily basis is very very personal. It's difficult work,
so writing a book with someone that might argue that
the points that I was trying to eloquently and effectively
put out to the public in terms of how to
assess quality of life with your senior dog and how
(22:09):
to really start having those conversations about end of life,
it was really important that Kathy or my you know,
at the time, anybody wanted the same things I did,
and Kathy and I just aligned immediately on that, and
that was everything to me. It made it very easy
for me to write because I knew that what I
was writing wasn't going to be overly analyzed or taken
(22:30):
too sensitively, if that makes sense. It made it very
easy for us to sort of piece this together very
very quickly, and it was fun.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
It was so we had such a great time. But
we both do feel so strongly that people need to
get more comfortable with death and that there's a lot
of folks letting there. It's a beautiful thing that we
can ease our animals suffering, and a lot of folks
are not comfortable with that, and as a result, they
(22:59):
am their animals end up suffering quite a bit at
the end, and that doesn't really need to happen. And
so one of our fondest hopes for this book is
that it helps people to become a little bit more
comfortable with the process of assessing quality of life and
embracing the idea of euthanasia, because that whole gosh, I
(23:21):
don't know, I don't feel comfortable with that. I just
want a natural death that can result in a heck
of a lot of suffering, and we see it because
we see those decisions and it's just a shame. And
what we also see is when people do finally take
the step to go ahead, and often they'll do, you know,
lack of love in their own home, and they find
out what a peaceful process it is and there's no suffering,
(23:42):
and it's kind of beautiful, and you have a chance
to gather the family and plan and talk about it
and then do a little ceremony if you want, and
you know, once they've done that, they realize, oh, this
really is they begin to have regret for maybe pitts
they haven't done that for So we're hoping to ease that.
As you know, we're hoping that people will pick up
this book even if they're just have a senior dog
(24:05):
right now and aren't quite thinking puppy. This book will
help them to make their senior dogs last twilight better
with simple tips, even simple stuff like, you know, have
more rugs on the floor, they're slipping on your floor,
A little stuff like that all the way to how
do you decide.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
If this is the day?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Anyway?
Speaker 6 (24:24):
So yeah, we share that philosophy very strongly, and we're
hoping that this book can help people become a little
more comfortable with that.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And I think that's a big thing about it, as
you mentioned early on, you know, talking about it. We
don't talk about it. We don't talk about it from
a human standpoint often, let alone with our animals. And
animals we have such a short window and oftentimes those
decisions have to be made. It seems like it takes
we have this huge window to make those decisions, but
we don't. Their lifespan is short. Too short, way too short.
(24:53):
And then when they do become older or when they
have disease within their body, then we have to make
those decisions. And we are notorious as humans to beat
ourselves up over everything, but it's part of that process.
It's part of that grieving process. You know, to heal
it your own time, but you make those decisions ahead
of time. There's no easy answer, you know. I'm sure
(25:14):
you've experienced it. I know I have. Where we've had
in home transitions, we've had transitions at the vets office,
we've had a transition in our arms. There's no right
or wrong answer to it, and none of it's easy.
But I think the tips that you put in the
book gives a little bit more humanity to it. It
gives the people the feeling that they can, you'll make
(25:36):
those decisions and how to go about doing that, and
makes it a little bit a little bit easier on
the front end and hopefully makes it easier on the
grieving process in the back end. So then the book itself,
we write it so it's just so easy, you know,
it was it more of Helen. You write your stuff, Kathy,
all right, you know, all right, mind, we'll put it
(25:57):
in the middle and while it's done. It took about
a week or two to get it done and there
it is.
Speaker 7 (26:03):
Well, well was that yeah, yes, I mean Kathy and
I sort of outlined it and said, okay, I'll write
this bit, you write this bit. We can sort of
put this piece together together. Then I'll do this bit,
and then we'll just sort of formulate it like that.
And so what we did was it was a process
of we would have our own deadlines where she would
(26:24):
send me what she had written, and I would send
her what I had written. We would be like, okay,
do you like this? Should I add something? And it
was again, it was very very easy because we've our
techniques and our understanding and our writing styles were very
very similar. So there wasn't a whole lot. There was
a very very little friction in anything. It was just
(26:45):
sort of like what if we talk about this, where
we didn't mention that we add that in easy but
it did certainly wasn't a week. I think it was
what like six months.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I think was about to say so. I think we
started writing in January January February, and I think the
manuscript was do at the end and to July. So
we were basically just sending each other chapters, you know,
marking little comments and Google docs or whatever, and then
pulling it all together. And we do we have the
same kind of vibe and voice, and so we're comfortable
(27:14):
with each other's style of writing, and we do all
we do recommend the same stuff all the time, you know,
and so it was very easy to pull it together.
Now I want to write all my books with Helen
because now when I think about my other books more
and't is fun. It's more fun to have Helen.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
It was well more fun to have somebody that you
could be like, is this okay?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Is that all right?
Speaker 7 (27:35):
Going too far?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Here?
Speaker 7 (27:36):
Where do I draw this line? And you know, Kathy
was wonderful because we had started the process and my
mother passed in April of last year, and Kathy had
written to me and said, maybe we should stop, like
it's do everything's due in July, and I was like, no,
I have to do this for her, like I have
to do this for mom. So I rented this little
airbnb on the beach and I went and I just
(27:57):
sat and wrote and wrote and wrote. But you know,
having somebody that was willing to say we don't have
to do this right now, if you don't want to
do this. My thing is if you tell me not
to do something or I shouldn't do something, I'm one
hundred percent going to do it and do it ten
times over. So Kathy was the perfect person to do
that with, you know, because if she'd like, Helen, get
to it. You know, you're not allowed to grieve, I
(28:19):
would have been like, I'm not doing it anymore. So
it worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I love it. I love it. I talk a lot
about animals are great at deflecting negative energy, so I
use that terminology quite a bit. That's why you see
a dog. If you get aggravated at the dog, they'll
walk away from mote and then come back like everything's fine.
But if you keep thembarding with that negative energy, then
they absorb it and they get diseased within their themselves
and within their bodies. So that's why I tell people that,
(28:47):
you know, get rid of nigative energy words. One of
the biggest ones is don't. And it sounds like, Helen,
you spend a lot of time with dogs because anybody
tells you don't, you're going to ignore that. So that's good.
Speaker 7 (28:58):
I will do the complete opposite. I will do the
complete opposite.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I love it. I love it. Well. Hopefully your husband
get some tips out of that. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (29:07):
It's been nine years and he still is like I
don't get it.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Like, yes, dear, that's that's what I've learned after all
these years. Yes, dear, my fault, Yes dear, that's all
I need to there, you go, good job, good job,
pat on the head.
Speaker 6 (29:22):
The thing is, though, that that is so true that
especially I just feel with puppies the no. I never
say no to a puppy because they are just learning.
It is so easy to fill their world with yes.
It's up to us to set up the environment so
that their world is filled with yes is and we
don't feel that constant need to say no. But most
(29:44):
people don't do it that way. And that's why puppyhood
feels so stressful, because wherever you turn around, they're doing
a no. They're jumping on someone, they're chewing the furniture,
they're peeing on the rug. Because you have given those choices,
you have made those choices.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, absolutely yes. The negative energy words like no, not stop,
don't quit, you know, getting aggravated or these things that's
throwing negative energy out there, and animals are greater deflecting that.
We're terrible at it as humans. We absorb that, and
that's why it's part of our vocabulary. I always tease
when when I'm doing a speaking and you mentioned conference
(30:19):
to speaking at a conference or doing a something through
the media, I'll tell them that. I'll ask everybody, would
you like to have the biggest retirement fund ever? And
they're like, I thought this was a dog talk? What
have we done about here? And I always tell them,
put a mason jar or a ball jar. Since I
went to ball State, ball jar in the middle of
your table, and every time you use a word that
(30:40):
is a negative energy word, put a dollar in the
ball jar. Because we're programmed as humans to say no,
not stop, don't quit. You know, we're bombarded with negative
energy and we projected out there, and our animals, like
I said, they're great at not absorbing that. They deflect
that off and so if we use those positive energy
words and positive training and positive reinforcement, then they respond accordingly,
(31:04):
and it's always in a positive manner. So I think
it's very true. And as you mentioned, Kathy. With puppies
in particular, you start early, start that framework early, fill
them with positive energy, let them know what you need
from them, and all of a sudden you're gonna have many,
many years of fun with your pup until they become
an older senior. And then you'll have even more fun
(31:24):
with them because they are. Are you absorbed all that
positive energy? So anyway, tell us a little bit about
what's going on. How can people find out more about
the both of you find out more about the work
that you do. Is in most particular and most important
is where to pick up a copy of Old Dog,
New Dog, Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a
new one.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
I am so glad you said the subtitle, because I
can never remember that. I can just remember the Old Dog,
New Dog part. So you guys can search for Old Dog,
New Dog wherever you buy your books. If your local
bookstore doesn't have it actually on the shelf, of course,
you can order it through them, and you can get
all through the big online places. You can also reach
us on our websites. I'm at puppypicks dot com as
(32:07):
me and I have two other books. I have a
puppy guide called Welcoming your Puppy from Planet Dog and
I have my first book was on all the rescues.
We rescue puppies. We've had a two hundred and fifty
come through this house. I'd like to bring in the
mamas and they are babies, so give them a safe
place to land. So I have a book on that too.
(32:28):
So you can find all that stuff just on my
website puppypicks dot com. I'm also on Facebook Kathy Gordcallahan,
and I post a lot of puppy stuff so it's
kind of a fun place to go hang out. And
I'm on Instagram at puppy.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
Picks and there's two ways to find me. If you
want to learn more about the work that I do
with senior and hospice dogs and animals, it's Old Dogs.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Go to Helen.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
You can see old Dogs. Go to Helen on Facebook
and at the website on old Dogs go to Helen
you'll see our current residents. We have a memorial all
of our farm hospice animals that we have, cat, pigs, donkeys, horses,
you name it, all the senior animals that we get
to us. As well as my courses on teaching quality
of life, quality of death, how to make those decisions.
(33:11):
It's for the public and also for professionals, and then
for the book. If you're interested, you can look at
No Monkey Business Dog Training. There's a link there in
my website of where you can go to purchase the
book from local places nearby. But like Kathy said, you
can get it pretty much at any place that you
buy your books. But on No Monkey Business Dog Training
you'll see more links for the book and all of
(33:33):
that fun stuff there as well. And like Old Dogs,
go to Helen because then you'll see all of the stinky, bald,
toothless well, you know, shuffling, shuffling dogs coming in and out.
I just had a pair of senior chiualas dropped off
at me with me surrendered yesterday and they are just
the teeniest little spicy chiloupas. They are so frickin cute.
(33:57):
But they're shuffling in and then they shuffle back out,
all of them on there.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I love it. I love it. Well, we'll definitely post
all that. Everybody check that out, and of course pick
up a copy of the book Old Dog, New Dog,
Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a new one.
Kathy Callahan, Helen Saint Peter, thanks for joining the show.
Congratulations on a fantastic book. Is definitely one of those
that everybody needs to pick up and keep on their
(34:22):
shelf and don't share it with anybody. Go buy somebody else's,
you know, buy another one this year. That's how you
go about doing that. But congratulations, Yeah, welcome, and thanks
so much for coming on the show. I do appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Thanks ten.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
All right, we'll come to the end of the show today.
I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Rights
on pet Life Radio. I want to thank the producers
and sponsors for making the show possible. While you're there,
you can go visit petlife radio dot com check out
all the other wonderful episodes and all the other wonderful shows.
It's a cornicopio, barking, currying and cock a doodle fun
(34:59):
that's at pet life dot com. And you can also
drop us a line and we'll answer all your questions,
entertain your comments, and bring on the people you want
to hear from most. So until next time, you write
a great story about the animals in your life, and
who knows, you may be the next guest on Animal
Rights on pet Life Radio. Have a great day.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Let's talk pets every week on demand only on petlife
radio dot com.
This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. I'm super
excited about the show because I've got some great professional
certified dog trainers coming on talking about their latest book
and the ins and outs of how do you blend
a old dog and a new dog into one happy family.
Of course, we're talking about professional trainers and authors Kathy
(00:29):
Callahan and Helen Saint Pierre, and we're gonna be talking
to them about their latest book, Old Dog, New Dog,
Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a new one.
So super exciting, great information to have, especially for those
of us that have gone through unfortunately animals in our
lives that made their transition or are about to make
their transition, but yet a new puppy comes along, which
(00:51):
is a whole new ball game. So we're gonna pick
the brains a little bit about all that find out
about the book and we'll sort of take it from there.
So everybody hang tight. We'll come back right for this
commercial break. You're listening to Animal Rights on Petlife Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
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(01:28):
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Speaker 4 (01:49):
Let's talk pets on petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Welcome back to animal rights on Petlife Radio. Pa'm joining
me now is certified professional dog trainers and family dog
Mediators of course, authors of the latest book, Old Dog,
New Dog, Supporting your aging best friend and Welcoming a
new one.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Welcome to show, Kathy Callahan and Helen Saint Pierre.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Thank you. We're delighted to be here.
Speaker 7 (02:15):
Yes, thank you so much. I'm really excited to chat today.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I love the book and I
love the format of the book because there is as
I read through everything, you know, I've experienced this myself
and trying to make these decisions on what to do
when an animal is a dog of ours or an
animal in our life, is getting ready to make their transition.
They're getting a little bit older. So when you get
the new one, how do you and then how do
you go about doing that? And I also reflect back
(02:39):
to those days where I let that gap go for
quite a while and then decided, hey, let's get a puppy,
and then realized, oh my god, what did I well?
I was I thank you? So yeah, So tell us
a little bit about the book in general and the
concept how you came about putting it together.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
So Helen and I were both present venting at a
dog conference. Believe it or not, there are things called
dog conferences. I did not know that till like Fers
movie and I was presenting on puppies. She was presenting
on oldies, and our talks melded so beautifully together. You know,
the beginning of life, the end of life. It requires
a lot of the same stuff from the humans and
a lot of the same kind of attention. And we
(03:22):
got together at the coffee break at that conference we
were like, wait, hang on, we have to do a
book together because we both often get that question that
you were just talking about, which is your beloved old
dog is starting to age, and it makes you think, wait, shoot,
we'd better Is this the right time for a puppy
because you want to soften that loss for your household,
(03:44):
and you love the idea of your sweet old friend
teaching the youngster, and it makes it sort of feel
like it's a little bit less of a loss. So
your impulses do do that, but is it the right thing?
Because we have both the advice that we both get.
So people ask us this question all the time. They
ask me because I'm puppy person, her because she's an
old dog person, although we both do all of it,
and our answer is identical, which is it depends, which
(04:07):
is completely unhelpful to whoever asked us that question. So
we decided we wanted to have a resource, the kind
of thing that we would have loved to place in
the hands of those people asking that question, because it's complicated.
Dogs are individuals, humans are individuals. Everybody set up as different.
It really depends a heck of a lot on how
(04:28):
is your old dog doing, what shape are they're in,
what kind of bandwidth do you have in your household
to manage this situation? If the puppy turns out to
be way more than you thought, or if your old
friend's old friends starts to decline a little bit more
than you anticipated. So the book talks about managing this
situation however it goes. So we hope it goes beautifully
(04:49):
for you. Sometimes it's absolutely phenomenal, but we want to
help set you up for the challenges that are going
to arise when you do try to manage both ends
of the spectrum at the same time.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, the challenge of it, I find not only trying
to manage it as far as like the dogs are concerned,
because as you mentioned it, they have their own unique personalities.
Just because you have two of the same breed, we'll say, yeah,
there'll be some characteristics that may be breed driven, but
for the most part, you know, everything's their own unique personality.
(05:20):
And then how do you make that tough decision Because
if you have a dog that is elderly, you know,
is going into the twilight of their years and maybe
they've got some health problems and things of this sort,
that's a full time job, full time money commitment, full
time everything commitment. And then you bring a puppy into
play and you have all that commitment too, that's a
financial commitment and a time commitment, and trying to make
(05:44):
that balance on Okay, what is the best thing to do?
So how do you really I know it's each individual situation.
Each individual person has to decide and family has to decide.
But what are some of those key factors to help
them make that decision? Okay, is this the right opportunity
for our family?
Speaker 7 (06:03):
There's a huge benefit for the human side versus the
dog side per se when we're making those decisions. And
I think that we often in our society, we don't
talk a lot about death. We don't talk about grief
or deal with grief until.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
After the fact.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
And something that's really beautiful about planning a puppy or
getting a puppy is you kind of are, in that
way accepting some anticipatory grief. You're recognizing that you're coming
into a phase where your life without your current senior
dog is getting closer than it has been before, and
you're thinking about the next step. And so I think
(06:40):
that for many people, thinking about getting another dog or
getting another puppy isn't necessarily when we know this for
the senior dog, but for them and so there is
no necessarily right or wrong answer. You just have to
say that. Look, if you have a very very old
dog that is blind or death and can't walk well
and is very small, and you've decided to help your
(07:03):
heart with the loss of that dog in a few
months or however long, get yourself a Labrador puppy. It's
not that it won't work, but it's gonna look maybe
different than if you have a more spry seeing your
dog and you get a different type of dog that
matches the size, if that makes sense. So there's no
definitely this is the right thing to do, or definitely
this is not. This is completely wrong. It's just understanding
(07:26):
all those variables and looking at it from the human perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I mean, I've got a good friend of mine, she's
a Goldie lover, so all of her pups are Goldies,
and through the years, per sort of way to move
forward with the healing and the prepping and things of
this sort is basically, when her oldest gets a little
bit to that point where we think there's going to
be a transition made somewhere in the near future, she'll
(07:51):
get a new puppy. Part of it when I've asked her,
it's been well. Part of it's the learning process, you know,
the older one can teach the younger one. Though I've
seen the years the older one sometimes says, get away
too much energy. You leave me alone. Absolutely, I've earned
my golden stripes. Absolutely leave me alone. But on the
other hand, I agree that the when the one makes
(08:12):
the transition, it's always going to be hard. You're always
going to think about them. They're always going to be
part of your heart connection. But the puppy at the
very least keeps you super duper busy, so you don't
have to think about it as much.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
I think that's absolutely right. And a lot of people
hesitate and think as they're facing that loss that they
don't want to replace their older dog. And one of
the things we talked about in the book is that
is not what we're doing here. You will never replace
that friend. All these friendships are unique, all these dogs
are unique, and so when you're getting a new puppy,
(08:46):
it is not like it's going to take the place
of that dog. However, you do have love to give,
and it feels terrific to have that. Yes, it's a
distraction and it's the most adorable distraction you can possibly have.
And as long as you kind of get your head
in the space that you understand this is not the
same dog. And sometimes the new puppy does bring on
(09:08):
a fresh kind of last wave of grief. If you
get the puppy after you've lost your older dog, sometimes
it does welcoming a little bit more grief where you
kind of finally process, oh, this is not the same dog.
This is I really I really have lost him. However,
we also believe that these oldies they hang around, they
(09:29):
hang around in the ether and sometimes have a young
puppy kind of bring that back to your like, wait,
hang on a second. You just get this sense anyway,
So I think it is it's a beautiful way to
move forward. And as long as your expectations are this
is a fresh, new, different, unique soul in front of me,
and we're going to move on in a different way
(09:50):
and it will bring you new lessons and new joys.
It won't be the same, it'll be different, but it is.
It certainly helps grief most of the time.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
If you yeah, nothing's get you a puppy. So we'll
just put it that way right there. So going back
to the question on sort of how do you make
those decisions? What are some of the things as an
individual or as a family you should sit down and
sort of consider before doing this, because because you do
have phases, you can bring them on, you know, a
year before and sort of learn the ropes and you know,
(10:22):
get used to having. You know, if you only have
one dog, we'll say, and I, all of a sudden
you have two, how do you manage that? Others will
choose to wait till you know, the grieving process is
a little bit less tender and maybe days, weeks, months
down the road, they'll get the puppy to sort of
move forward on that. What are some of those questions
some of those things you should be asking yourself for
(10:44):
the family should be asking themselves on when is that
timing just right?
Speaker 7 (10:48):
I think bandwidth, how much bandwidth they have in terms
of energy or time for both. You know, it will
very much depend on the disease or the sickness level
of the senior dog. Are they dealing with incomun and
it's already with the senior dog, because if they're already
cleaning up pee and poop for one dog and now
we have a puppy that's also having accidents. Is that
(11:09):
going to be too much, right or what happens if
the senior dog really doesn't like the puppy at first
and it takes some time. Are they okay living in
a gated community for a little while and having gates
back up and going back to like square one for
a bit, you know, and sort of sitting down and saying,
are we okay with this? And you know, hoping for
(11:30):
the best, but let's just plan for the worst. Here's
the worst stuff that could happen, And are we all
okay with that? And that level of work, because as
you said Tim earlier, it's work. Caring for a senior
dog is a lot of work. Raising a puppy is.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
A lot of work.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
It's not that there is a joy in that, Obviously
there is. Otherwise I wouldn't have a senior hospice dog sanctuary,
Kathy wouldn't raise puppies so much. But you have to
really be willing to be in the trenches of that
for a little bit, and everyone in the family should
be okay with that.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I think, yeah, I think that's a good good way
to take a look at it and having those conversations
and making those decisions. They're tough ones, but they can
be exciting ones as well. And having a senior. My
boy Kramer, he passed away in January at the age
of twelve. He's going to be thirteen. He had prostate cancer, okay,
and so we went through months of taking care of him.
(12:23):
Those final weeks, it was up every hour upon the
hour to let him out and so he could go potty,
take his little man pants off. We'll call yeah, let
him have some freedom to feel good about himself. But
you know, I was literally up every hour on the
hour to let him out. Now yet, and we have
another Schnauzer who is thirteen, going to be thirteenth to
(12:46):
end of the month, and she's doing fantastic challenge. There
is there's no way I would could introduce a new
puppy into this household because her energy level is at max.
And the things we weren't able to do with our
boy crame we're at these latter times of his life,
we're now able to do with Dusty because Dusty is
(13:08):
the boss of the house and she is full of
energy and she's like, Okay, now we can go do
things that we weren't able to do. We can't, you know,
demanding park time in addition to our big backyard fence,
backyard time, you know, demanding certain things to happen, or
she's not settled because these are things that we weren't
able to do or we used to do before Ant Kramer,
(13:29):
you know, was unable to do them. So for our family,
trying to make those decisions, you know, it's a tough
one because we've always had dogs, We've always had animals
in our life. But we find great joy in taking
care of just one right now who's very demanding, compared
to trying to go out and get it, get another
puppy and go through that again.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
That's just great because it sounds like you all feel
exactly the same way about this, and this is the
right route for you.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's so great.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
Another family might absolutely go the other direction with that.
And the thing is it is something you need to
talk about and really think. Just as you say, you know,
you're getting the man pants off in the middle of
the night with the old dog, when that can happen
if you are also dealing with a puppy who needs
also needs to wake up in the middle of the
night and go outside. That's just a heck of a lot.
(14:15):
So you just want to be aware what these stages
are going to look like, how they can can unroll
and talk about them and be prepared to step up. Ideally,
it'll work great, you know, ideally when you introduce this,
if you decide to have the two of them, they
will curl up in the bed together and nobody you know,
the old dog has more energy, the puppies thrilled to
(14:35):
have a leader. That absolutely does happen, And we just
want everybody to be prepared for the other end when
it might make a lot more sense for you to,
for example, do what you're doing and really focus on
these years with your dog.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I think that. You know, one of
the things I've seen over the years with with with
clients and people I know and people that work with
rescue and stuff is when you bring a new one,
let alone a puppy, a new introduce a new one
to your family, the expectation of them knowing how to
pick up on everything right away, you know exactly what
to do. You know, doesn't always happen. You know, they
(15:11):
don't know they're in a new place, they don't know
the rules of the house. They don't know even if
they're in a gated community. I love that, Helen. I
will regress back. We have the metal metal gates in
every room of our house that you have the push
plate and that pops open. Those work so fantastic that
even for the short period of time when we didn't
have a dog, we kept them. They're in place now,
(15:32):
they're in every room. Our dogs never go into those
rooms to cause any mischief or anything, but they're wonderful
to have. So we yeah, we definitely live in.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
A gated gap and they make them look so nice.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Now.
Speaker 7 (15:42):
I mean, that's the thing that I have these conversations
with people because a lot of people have, especially if
they've got an older dog that's like fifteen or sixteen,
and they're going to get a puppy, and they and
I talk about gates. They have the idea of these.
Remember the older compression gates were the only ones, or
those white ones that clanked around, and I'm like, no, no, no,
no no. Nowadays you can go to any store and you
will find like beautiful gates that match or decor that
(16:06):
are very aesthetically pleasing that once they're in you don't
really care that they stay there. It doesn't. It just
so the options have changed. And then those people that
had dogs fifteen years ago that now are getting a
puppy are like, oh my god, they didn't have this
stuff even back then. I'm like, exactly, so it's a
lot prettier, good look a lot prettier than it used to.
Speaker 6 (16:27):
YEA, absolutely right, And it is our number one tip
in the book. When you introduce a puppy into a
house with another dog, is that separation. You need to
have those gates because the big thing is you need
to protect the other dog from puppy energy. Puppies are
the cutest thing on the planet. They are also unbelievably rude.
They don't know anything, they don't have any manners, they
(16:48):
haven't learned this stuff. So when they come in, they
are going to be jumping up and biting, wrestling, and
they want to do it twenty four to seven, and
they want to do it with the dog. No matter
how cute fun you try to be as a human,
that puppy's going to keep choosing the dog, and if
you kind of decide to let that go, you're going
to be hurting the potential relationship between the two of them.
(17:11):
So you really want to make sure that the older
dog can always choose whether he wants to interact with
a puppy, and he may choose never, but we hope,
we hope that he chooses it kind of a lot,
and then you can manage it when you can supervise
when they're together and helping them to create that nice relationship.
But if you count on your older dog to be
(17:32):
the babysitter of the puppy, which is a really human
easy thing to do because we're all really busy, and
sometimes that older dog will just keep the puppy busy
for a while. But if you do that, you are
risking taxing your old dog with too much of a
job there. And it's a job they didn't ask for.
They didn't ask for the puppy. We ask for the puppy.
(17:52):
So you just want to for a little while. It's
going to be a heck of a lot of management
that way, to make sure that your older dog can
always whether to interact.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Nice, nice, And I love it. I love that's the
number one tips. So that works out real well. And
the book's full of all kinds of insight and tips
because obviously you guys lived it and are continuing to
live it every single day, and I think those little
tidbits and tips and things to look for are the
important thing. And this is the book Old Dog, New
Dog is definitely one that you want to keep handy,
(18:22):
you know, ear Mark bend down those pages. We need
to buy a second copy. That would be good.
Speaker 7 (18:27):
We like that.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So all kinds of great information there. Well, we're going
to come back right for this commercial break and we'll
talk a little bit more to Kath Callahan and Helen
Saint Peter about the book Old Dog, New Dog. Also
want to talk to them a little bit about writing
and joining together to write such a fabulous book. So
everybody hang tight, we'll come back right for this commercial break.
You're listening to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Thank yous to hear more of your favorite show, cool Ful.
Episodes of all our shows are available on demand. Go
to Pedlife Radio, dot to fed Saur retire lineup of
possum pet podcasts. Also dig us up and iHeart Radio
dan iTunes. Let's Talk pasts live only from pet Life Radio.
(19:12):
Let's Talk Past. Let's Pat on pet.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Life Radio Patline Radio petlfradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Welcome back to Animal Lights on at Life Radio Tenure
conversation with certified professional dog trainers and authors Kath Callahan
and Helen Saint Peter and their new book Old Dog,
New Dog, Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a
new one. So both of you are professionals, and you've
(19:41):
been around this, and you've been down the road a
time or two, even though you're very very young, we'll
put it that way. When putting the book together, were
there things that are like, Wow, I forgot that, or Wow,
I didn't know that, or things that I was like, wow,
I used to talk about that all the time and
now I don't, and so I need to go back
in my toolbox and and bring those things out.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
So, I mean, we both do live this stuff all
the time, and so this book just kind of fell
out of our brains together. So it did not feel
like that, you know, when I watched her presentation, I
had heard of Helen before, I knew of her work,
and then I met her at this conference. Watched her presentation,
and I loved every word that came out of her
(20:25):
mouth because it felt everything felt so true to me.
We look at things the same way, and so when
we did just even begin talking about the book, it
was just like yep, yep, yep, yep, Like there's no
there was I mean, honest to god, it just kind
of came out because we also we counsel people about
(20:45):
this all the time, and we give the same advice
to people. I mean, she has much more knowledge on
old dogs than I do, and so I wish I
could like just transport her into my client conversations with
old dogs because I don't have the depth of information
on that. But now I have this book to hand people.
So anyway, that's my perspective.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
How about you, Helen, Yeah, it's I mean, and I
said this a couple of days ago. For me with
my work with at the hospice, because I have a
hospice sanctuary, so I'm constantly taking in senior dogs and
assessing quality of life and helping them pass and we
do that out of our homes. So it's a huge
passion project for us. But for me, the most important
(21:25):
thing was the alignment that Kathy had with me on
assessing quality of life and knowing when to make the
right call and standing by you know, humane youth in
Asia and knowing when to do that for our senior dogs,
and she was right in line with me and my
you know, the way that I approach end of life
care for animals and especially dogs. So that was huge
(21:48):
for me because this information, the work that I do
on a daily basis is very very personal. It's difficult work,
so writing a book with someone that might argue that
the points that I was trying to eloquently and effectively
put out to the public in terms of how to
assess quality of life with your senior dog and how
(22:09):
to really start having those conversations about end of life,
it was really important that Kathy or my you know,
at the time, anybody wanted the same things I did,
and Kathy and I just aligned immediately on that, and
that was everything to me. It made it very easy
for me to write because I knew that what I
was writing wasn't going to be overly analyzed or taken
(22:30):
too sensitively, if that makes sense. It made it very
easy for us to sort of piece this together very
very quickly, and it was fun.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
It was so we had such a great time. But
we both do feel so strongly that people need to
get more comfortable with death and that there's a lot
of folks letting there. It's a beautiful thing that we
can ease our animals suffering, and a lot of folks
are not comfortable with that, and as a result, they
(22:59):
am their animals end up suffering quite a bit at
the end, and that doesn't really need to happen. And
so one of our fondest hopes for this book is
that it helps people to become a little bit more
comfortable with the process of assessing quality of life and
embracing the idea of euthanasia, because that whole gosh, I
(23:21):
don't know, I don't feel comfortable with that. I just
want a natural death that can result in a heck
of a lot of suffering, and we see it because
we see those decisions and it's just a shame. And
what we also see is when people do finally take
the step to go ahead, and often they'll do, you know,
lack of love in their own home, and they find
out what a peaceful process it is and there's no suffering,
(23:42):
and it's kind of beautiful, and you have a chance
to gather the family and plan and talk about it
and then do a little ceremony if you want, and
you know, once they've done that, they realize, oh, this
really is they begin to have regret for maybe pitts
they haven't done that for So we're hoping to ease that.
As you know, we're hoping that people will pick up
this book even if they're just have a senior dog
(24:05):
right now and aren't quite thinking puppy. This book will
help them to make their senior dogs last twilight better
with simple tips, even simple stuff like, you know, have
more rugs on the floor, they're slipping on your floor,
A little stuff like that all the way to how
do you decide.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
If this is the day?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Anyway?
Speaker 6 (24:24):
So yeah, we share that philosophy very strongly, and we're
hoping that this book can help people become a little
more comfortable with that.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And I think that's a big thing about it, as
you mentioned early on, you know, talking about it. We
don't talk about it. We don't talk about it from
a human standpoint often, let alone with our animals. And
animals we have such a short window and oftentimes those
decisions have to be made. It seems like it takes
we have this huge window to make those decisions, but
we don't. Their lifespan is short. Too short, way too short.
(24:53):
And then when they do become older or when they
have disease within their body, then we have to make
those decisions. And we are notorious as humans to beat
ourselves up over everything, but it's part of that process.
It's part of that grieving process. You know, to heal
it your own time, but you make those decisions ahead
of time. There's no easy answer, you know. I'm sure
(25:14):
you've experienced it. I know I have. Where we've had
in home transitions, we've had transitions at the vets office,
we've had a transition in our arms. There's no right
or wrong answer to it, and none of it's easy.
But I think the tips that you put in the
book gives a little bit more humanity to it. It
gives the people the feeling that they can, you'll make
(25:36):
those decisions and how to go about doing that, and
makes it a little bit a little bit easier on
the front end and hopefully makes it easier on the
grieving process in the back end. So then the book itself,
we write it so it's just so easy, you know,
it was it more of Helen. You write your stuff, Kathy,
all right, you know, all right, mind, we'll put it
(25:57):
in the middle and while it's done. It took about
a week or two to get it done and there
it is.
Speaker 7 (26:03):
Well, well was that yeah, yes, I mean Kathy and
I sort of outlined it and said, okay, I'll write
this bit, you write this bit. We can sort of
put this piece together together. Then I'll do this bit,
and then we'll just sort of formulate it like that.
And so what we did was it was a process
of we would have our own deadlines where she would
(26:24):
send me what she had written, and I would send
her what I had written. We would be like, okay,
do you like this? Should I add something? And it
was again, it was very very easy because we've our
techniques and our understanding and our writing styles were very
very similar. So there wasn't a whole lot. There was
a very very little friction in anything. It was just
(26:45):
sort of like what if we talk about this, where
we didn't mention that we add that in easy but
it did certainly wasn't a week. I think it was
what like six months.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I think was about to say so. I think we
started writing in January January February, and I think the
manuscript was do at the end and to July. So
we were basically just sending each other chapters, you know,
marking little comments and Google docs or whatever, and then
pulling it all together. And we do we have the
same kind of vibe and voice, and so we're comfortable
(27:14):
with each other's style of writing, and we do all
we do recommend the same stuff all the time, you know,
and so it was very easy to pull it together.
Now I want to write all my books with Helen
because now when I think about my other books more
and't is fun. It's more fun to have Helen.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
It was well more fun to have somebody that you
could be like, is this okay?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Is that all right?
Speaker 7 (27:35):
Going too far?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Here?
Speaker 7 (27:36):
Where do I draw this line? And you know, Kathy
was wonderful because we had started the process and my
mother passed in April of last year, and Kathy had
written to me and said, maybe we should stop, like
it's do everything's due in July, and I was like, no,
I have to do this for her, like I have
to do this for mom. So I rented this little
airbnb on the beach and I went and I just
(27:57):
sat and wrote and wrote and wrote. But you know,
having somebody that was willing to say we don't have
to do this right now, if you don't want to
do this. My thing is if you tell me not
to do something or I shouldn't do something, I'm one
hundred percent going to do it and do it ten
times over. So Kathy was the perfect person to do
that with, you know, because if she'd like, Helen, get
to it. You know, you're not allowed to grieve, I
(28:19):
would have been like, I'm not doing it anymore. So
it worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I love it. I love it. I talk a lot
about animals are great at deflecting negative energy, so I
use that terminology quite a bit. That's why you see
a dog. If you get aggravated at the dog, they'll
walk away from mote and then come back like everything's fine.
But if you keep thembarding with that negative energy, then
they absorb it and they get diseased within their themselves
and within their bodies. So that's why I tell people that,
(28:47):
you know, get rid of nigative energy words. One of
the biggest ones is don't. And it sounds like, Helen,
you spend a lot of time with dogs because anybody
tells you don't, you're going to ignore that. So that's good.
Speaker 7 (28:58):
I will do the complete opposite. I will do the
complete opposite.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I love it. I love it. Well. Hopefully your husband
get some tips out of that. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (29:07):
It's been nine years and he still is like I
don't get it.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Like, yes, dear, that's that's what I've learned after all
these years. Yes, dear, my fault, Yes dear, that's all
I need to there, you go, good job, good job,
pat on the head.
Speaker 6 (29:22):
The thing is, though, that that is so true that
especially I just feel with puppies the no. I never
say no to a puppy because they are just learning.
It is so easy to fill their world with yes.
It's up to us to set up the environment so
that their world is filled with yes is and we
don't feel that constant need to say no. But most
(29:44):
people don't do it that way. And that's why puppyhood
feels so stressful, because wherever you turn around, they're doing
a no. They're jumping on someone, they're chewing the furniture,
they're peeing on the rug. Because you have given those choices,
you have made those choices.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, absolutely yes. The negative energy words like no, not stop,
don't quit, you know, getting aggravated or these things that's
throwing negative energy out there, and animals are greater deflecting that.
We're terrible at it as humans. We absorb that, and
that's why it's part of our vocabulary. I always tease
when when I'm doing a speaking and you mentioned conference
(30:19):
to speaking at a conference or doing a something through
the media, I'll tell them that. I'll ask everybody, would
you like to have the biggest retirement fund ever? And
they're like, I thought this was a dog talk? What
have we done about here? And I always tell them,
put a mason jar or a ball jar. Since I
went to ball State, ball jar in the middle of
your table, and every time you use a word that
(30:40):
is a negative energy word, put a dollar in the
ball jar. Because we're programmed as humans to say no,
not stop, don't quit. You know, we're bombarded with negative
energy and we projected out there, and our animals, like
I said, they're great at not absorbing that. They deflect
that off and so if we use those positive energy
words and positive training and positive reinforcement, then they respond accordingly,
(31:04):
and it's always in a positive manner. So I think
it's very true. And as you mentioned, Kathy. With puppies
in particular, you start early, start that framework early, fill
them with positive energy, let them know what you need
from them, and all of a sudden you're gonna have many,
many years of fun with your pup until they become
an older senior. And then you'll have even more fun
(31:24):
with them because they are. Are you absorbed all that
positive energy? So anyway, tell us a little bit about
what's going on. How can people find out more about
the both of you find out more about the work
that you do. Is in most particular and most important
is where to pick up a copy of Old Dog,
New Dog, Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a
new one.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
I am so glad you said the subtitle, because I
can never remember that. I can just remember the Old Dog,
New Dog part. So you guys can search for Old Dog,
New Dog wherever you buy your books. If your local
bookstore doesn't have it actually on the shelf, of course,
you can order it through them, and you can get
all through the big online places. You can also reach
us on our websites. I'm at puppypicks dot com as
(32:07):
me and I have two other books. I have a
puppy guide called Welcoming your Puppy from Planet Dog and
I have my first book was on all the rescues.
We rescue puppies. We've had a two hundred and fifty
come through this house. I'd like to bring in the
mamas and they are babies, so give them a safe
place to land. So I have a book on that too.
(32:28):
So you can find all that stuff just on my
website puppypicks dot com. I'm also on Facebook Kathy Gordcallahan,
and I post a lot of puppy stuff so it's
kind of a fun place to go hang out. And
I'm on Instagram at puppy.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
Picks and there's two ways to find me. If you
want to learn more about the work that I do
with senior and hospice dogs and animals, it's Old Dogs.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Go to Helen.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
You can see old Dogs. Go to Helen on Facebook
and at the website on old Dogs go to Helen
you'll see our current residents. We have a memorial all
of our farm hospice animals that we have, cat, pigs, donkeys, horses,
you name it, all the senior animals that we get
to us. As well as my courses on teaching quality
of life, quality of death, how to make those decisions.
(33:11):
It's for the public and also for professionals, and then
for the book. If you're interested, you can look at
No Monkey Business Dog Training. There's a link there in
my website of where you can go to purchase the
book from local places nearby. But like Kathy said, you
can get it pretty much at any place that you
buy your books. But on No Monkey Business Dog Training
you'll see more links for the book and all of
(33:33):
that fun stuff there as well. And like Old Dogs,
go to Helen because then you'll see all of the stinky, bald,
toothless well, you know, shuffling, shuffling dogs coming in and out.
I just had a pair of senior chiualas dropped off
at me with me surrendered yesterday and they are just
the teeniest little spicy chiloupas. They are so frickin cute.
(33:57):
But they're shuffling in and then they shuffle back out,
all of them on there.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I love it. I love it. Well, we'll definitely post
all that. Everybody check that out, and of course pick
up a copy of the book Old Dog, New Dog,
Supporting your aging best friend and welcoming a new one.
Kathy Callahan, Helen Saint Peter, thanks for joining the show.
Congratulations on a fantastic book. Is definitely one of those
that everybody needs to pick up and keep on their
(34:22):
shelf and don't share it with anybody. Go buy somebody else's,
you know, buy another one this year. That's how you
go about doing that. But congratulations, Yeah, welcome, and thanks
so much for coming on the show. I do appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Thanks ten.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
All right, we'll come to the end of the show today.
I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Rights
on pet Life Radio. I want to thank the producers
and sponsors for making the show possible. While you're there,
you can go visit petlife radio dot com check out
all the other wonderful episodes and all the other wonderful shows.
It's a cornicopio, barking, currying and cock a doodle fun
(34:59):
that's at pet life dot com. And you can also
drop us a line and we'll answer all your questions,
entertain your comments, and bring on the people you want
to hear from most. So until next time, you write
a great story about the animals in your life, and
who knows, you may be the next guest on Animal
Rights on pet Life Radio. Have a great day.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Let's talk pets every week on demand only on petlife
radio dot com.
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