March 15, 2025 • 32 mins
Pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter, John Woestendiek, joined me to talk about his recently released book, Dog Inc.: The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning Man’s Best Friend. His book illustrates the lengths that dog owners will go to duplicate their beloved animals. During the podcast, I talked with John about what prompted him to write about the dog cloning industry, how much the cloning process costs, and whether the results are what the pet owners expected.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. You're here
with your host Tim Link and we've got another great
show for you today. So I would like to thank
you first of all for joining us. My guest today
is pull Up Surprise winning investigative reporter John Westendick, and
he'll be talking to you with us today about it
recently released book, Dog inc. The Uncanny Inside Story of
(00:32):
Cloning a Man's Best Friend. So it's fascinating topic, could
be controversial, so you never know, so everybody's going to
have to listen and find out more about it. You know,
the story dog Inca The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning
Man's Best Friend. It illustrates the links that dog owners
will go to duplicate their beloved animals. So I'm really
(00:54):
fascinating and interested in talking to John more about the
book and everything that he does as well. But first
I'd like to talk to you about a study that
I found recently. There was a study recently that was published.
It was actually January twenty eleven and it was published
in the issue of Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association.
And the study which took place at Ohio State's Veterinarian
(01:16):
Medical Center. It documented sickness behaviors and healthy cats as
well as in cats with feline interstitial cystitis. Mouthful there,
but basically, it's a chronic illness that causes reoccurring discomfort
or pain in the bladder of your cats, and it
also leads to both urgent and frequent urination by the animals.
(01:41):
So it's a serious disease. But the study, which was
actually given a large grant to find out what causes
this and what causes your cat to not want to
urinate in their litterbox, the study concluded that basically, it's
something I already knew. But the study concluded that the
(02:02):
changes in a cat's routine can cause stress, and with
stress comes to unwanted sickness behaviors, as they call it,
sickness behaviors in your cats that tend to exhibit such
behavior as refusing to eat and we're not using their
litter box. So there's a large grant given for this
study to come back basically saying, keep your cat's life
(02:23):
stress free, keep it on a routine, and you're going
to have a better chance of your cat not getting
this illness. And actually using the litter box, or you
can call me and I'll be able to consult you
on it and we'll find out what's going on there
as well. As an animal communicator, I do do that often.
That's probably the the number one call I get is
why it's Fluffy no longer using the litter box And
(02:44):
perhaps Fluffy is stressed out a little bit, or you've
changed the behavior, or maybe Fluffy has gotten this chronic
illness called ICEE. So interesting study. You know, in the
study it talks about the pets and it went in
a lot of detail about studying the cats and mind
monitoring them on a daily basis. And you know, I
often tell clients that pets are like people. They love
(03:07):
their routines. They don't like to have their routines disrupted.
I know I have to have my first cup of
coffee in the morning for me to be able to function,
and I'm sure cats have to have their first routine
in place as well. So if you're going to change
the routines of your animals, I always recommend that you
talk to the animals and you explain to them how
the change is going to impact them and their normal routine.
(03:29):
You explain to them that what you would like for
them to do to be able to help out with
this situation is changing the routine, and most importantly, you
tell them why it's going to be a good thing.
Why is it going to be okay, Fluffy, that we're
going to change your routine today. So basically tell them,
you know, if you're going to be going on vacation,
you let them know that, Hey, I'm going to be
going on vacation and I'll be back in one week.
(03:51):
What I need you to do is be a great
kiddie for the pet sitter. Use your litter box only
because this is gonna make me really happy and it's
going to cast you a lot less stress. Simple sounds odd,
sounds different, but talking to animals, believe me, it works.
And that is the number one thing I get called
on all the time is about the cats. I found
out that by simply explaining these things your cat and
(04:13):
you can do it with your dog and your other
pets as well. It will ease their anxiety about the
changes and the routine and how they can adjust to
it and what you need from them and why it's
going to be a good thing for them and you know. Now,
if I can only get a major grant to study
this and talk about it as well, then we all
be happy. I know my bank account would be a
little happier too. But it's an interesting study. I think
(04:35):
it's something worthwhile. We're going to post it on the blog,
which is the Animal Rights blog on Petlife Radio. So
go to petlifradio dot com, click on animal rights and
go to the blog. I'll talk a little bit about
the particular study as well as we'll provide a link
to the full article about it. So kudos to Ohio
State University Veterinary School to at least caring about our
(04:55):
cats and wanting to find out how we can keep
their routines the same and keep their lifes rest free.
So interesting article. Interesting article. So we're gonna recome up
to a break, but we're gonna be right back with
John Westindick to talk about dog inc. The uncanny inside
story of cloning a man's best friend. You're listening to
Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
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Speaker 2 (07:52):
All right, welcome back to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
Thanks for joining me today. And on our show, we've
got John Westerdeck coming on and he's recently released his
first book, Dog Inc. The uncanny inside story of Cloning
a Man's Best Friend. So John, welcome to Animal Rights
on pet Life Radio.
Speaker 7 (08:11):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Oh, it's our pleasure. It's a fascinating book. I mean,
obviously you had a great you have a great long history,
Pulitzer Prize winning the Investigative Reporter, and now we're talking
about a wonderful book, a very intriguing book. Called Dog
inc The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning a Man's Best Friend.
So tell us a little bit about the book and
how it came about.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Sure, but we have to go back to the routine
to pets and their routine later because I need some
insights on that.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Okay, we can do that.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
I got started on the book back when I was
still a reporter with the Baltimore Sun and I was
doing their pet blog called Mutts. At the time, it
was mostly about dogs, and I did a short little
blog item on someone had reported that there was an
anonymous woman who was getting her dog cloned. There weren't
(09:01):
too many more details than that, which I found kind
of intriguing. I did a little light them on it,
and the next day I came to work and I
had like fifteen to twenty voicemails from the anonymous woman,
who wasn't anonymous anymore after that. So that's that's the
part of it that really intrigued me most, is that
it sort of struck me as the first time that
(09:24):
we as a society in our history were cloning for
love as opposed to you know, scientific experiment or agriculture.
And that seemed to come you know, kind of close,
especially with dogs who probably non animal closer to us,
as you know, perhaps leading the way to something even.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Scarier exactly, you know. And it's fascinating because I, like
you said, I think everybody heard of cloning of livestock,
and we heard about you know, the sheet that was cloned,
et cetera, and obviously we'd sort of been you know,
at least in my mind, is kind of an It
is very fascinating, but I didn't know it was actually happening.
I didn't know it was actually today present, they're actually
(10:06):
doing that, and people were paying top dollar and hopes
to hold on to their beloved pet in some fashion.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Yeah, and it was actually the whole, the whole impetus
behind it was pretty much to turn it into a
profit making business. And so that the effort to clone
a dog, I mean, everybody remembers Dolly the sheep pretty well.
But the effort to clone a dog started not too
long after that was announced, and the first research was
when it was underway at Texas A and M University,
(10:35):
where it was funded by a private citizen who wanted
his dog cloned. And they tried for several years and
couldn't quite pull it off because dogs proved to be
a lot more difficult to clone than any other animal.
They eventually the company that was funding the effort. Actually though,
even before a dog was cloned, they were selling the
(10:57):
idea of banking your dog's cells for when the day came,
so they were sort of doing business on the promise
that cloning was just around the corner and you should
bank your dog cells now, and a lot of people
did that.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, it's fascinating, but it's also mind boggling because I
love my pets. You know, we've got dogs. Of course,
we've got turtles and rabbits and everything in our birds,
you name it is in our household. We have cats.
But it never occurred to me to do that. You know,
I think I love my pet as well as anybody.
I'm sure you love your dog as well as better
than anybody. It's your best friend. But cloning, I mean,
(11:31):
is that something that you thought of after had been
anticipating since you wrote the book? Is this encountered in
your mind?
Speaker 6 (11:39):
I can understand the temptation to do it. I mean,
I think my dog is like extra special, as everybody
does with their own dogs. And he's about six years
old now, and so you know, every once in a
while I think about, you know, and he's a very
large dog, so he won't live a whole long time.
So I understand, you know, both the sense of loss
(12:02):
that people go through, having been you know, through a
few other dogs, and so I can relate to that.
But I wouldn't never clone my dog. Well, for in
the first place, it costs one hundred thousand dollars, so
that rules me out.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
But you know, even if I could, I wouldn't because I.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Think it would it wouldn't be fair to his memory,
and I probably wouldn't be fair to the clone who
i'd have, you know, all these expectations of you know,
weren't you more like Ace? Why can't you do this
like Ace did and be fair at anybody, including me?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, exactly. And that's a very good point because from
what I understand about the cloning process, you may get
an animal that looks a lot like the original animal,
like Ace in this case, but the personalities of the
two animals are still very unique. And so when people
find this out, what's their overall take, How the response
has been, They've been still just as thrilled because it
(12:57):
sort of still looks like the that had made its transition,
or are they very disappointed because the personality still much different.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
It's been a mixture, even like within the same person,
it's been a mixture. By that, I mean the first
customer who I talked to, you know, throughout the process,
while she was still waiting for it, and when she
meant to pick up her dogs, and after she got
them back, she kind of went back and forth, you know,
when they were pups on how much they physically resembled
the original and in terms of behavior as well.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I mean, the company's the company.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
There's only one that's doing it now in Korea.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
They pretty much guarantee.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
That they'll give you a dog that is physically identical.
But you're right as far as the personality and the
behavior and the temperament are all things that I think
anybody who has a dog knows that a lot of
that comes from the time that the two of you
spend together and how you spend it and.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
How you raise them.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
And I think that's something that sort of evolves over
time and doesn't have a whole lot to do with genes.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, exactly, And that's you know, to me that having
an animal that looks like an animal that I've had
in the past. Obviously, we were humans, so we're attracted
by things that attract our eye to begin with. But
when it boils down to it's really the personality, the
essence of that particular animal that you really, in my opinion,
you hold dear to your heart and you want them
(14:22):
to be identical. You want them to act and play
and get in trouble like your dog used to do.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
And the customers, I mean, there are some customers who
think it's going to be somehow the same dog, that
somehow the soul of their dog that died is going
to re enter the clone and they will have the
same dog again. And I don't know if they're fooling
themselves or wishful thinking or denial or what. But then
again there's others that know it's not the same dog
(14:51):
and it's just as close as they can come to
getting the same dog. So it varies from customer to customer.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Interesting. Interesting, I mean people are doing this. Do you
have they provide any numbers?
Speaker 6 (15:03):
I don't have a definite number. I know. Well, how
it got going was there There were two companies at first,
one that originally called itself Genetic Savings and Clone and that.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Was the one that that's a bad I'm sorry, that's
just bad.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
They were the ones that were hooked up with Texas.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
A and M and had hoped to like, you know,
get cloning accomplished here and clone the dog, clone pats
here for people. That didn't happen. That company went out
of business and then reopened as bio Arts and hooked
up with one of the lead scientists in South Korea
at Sole National University that managed to clone The first
(15:44):
dog was who was Snuppy. It was in Afghan Haan,
who's still around and I got to meet so the
American company. There was an American company and then a
Korean company that was working alongside Sole National University, and
they were both offering to clone dogs.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
The American company is one of the Korean scientists. The
American company.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Initially held an auction, an online auction to clone dogs
and took the highest bidders and sent the dog sells
to Korean had them clone. So they did like six clonings.
The Korean company, which is still in business and.
Speaker 12 (16:21):
Still cloning dogs, has done probably about a dozen and
they expect they say that they make clone as many
as like five hundred dogs in the next year, and
they're building a new facility laboratory.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
In which to do that.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
So you know, there's probably maybe worldwide twenty or so
people that have had this done so far.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Well, fascinating, has passed.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
A lot more have been cloned in connection with for
research purposes, for research.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Exactly, very fascinating. Talking Well, listen, we're going to take
a break here shortly and then come back and we're
going to talk more with John Westondick about his book
Dog Inc. As well as his blogs. I want to
talk about ace and the things that you're up to
there as well. So everybody, hangsight. You're listening to Animal
Rights on pet Life Radio.
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Speaker 2 (20:13):
All right, welcome back, Welcome back, your listen animal rights
on pet Life Radio. And this is Tim Link, your
host and I'm here with John Weston Dick, who is
the author of dog Inc. The Uncanny Inside Story of
Cloning a Man's Best Friend. John, I was reading a
little bit about your history with animal communicators, and as
you may or may not know, I'm an animal communicator
(20:33):
when I'm not doing this wonderful radio show, as well
as wearing hats as author, writer, speaker, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. But after reviewing your book, the thought occurred
to me that I know that you had spoken to
an animal communicator about I believe Ace or one of
your other pets, But did you. I thought it would
be interesting to communicate with one of the clone animals
(20:54):
get their viewpoint on their origination. Have you ever considered,
or have you, as anyone, ever considered an animal communicator
talk to one of the clone pets to get their
viewpoint on life.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Not that I know, but I think.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
That's an awesome idea. Yeah, Yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, I think it would be a real interesting topic
because I called, you know a lot of times and
do consultations, and especially when we're talking to individuals who
have rescued their animals from a shelter or a no
kill rescue, which I applaud. They always want to know
what was the history, you know. I heard a spot
went through all this tragedy in his life in the past,
and so I've had some interesting conversations with them. But
(21:32):
I was wondering, clone dog, what would they have to say.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, that would be fascinating.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
And that's that's sort of how I've taken Age to
an animal communicator twice, two different ones. And the first
time was back when I was a reporter. I did
a series after I adopted him from the shelter here
in Baltimore, trying to figure out his roots and what
his history was and what breeds he was. And so
I did like the DNA test you can do now,
(21:58):
and that determined I did three times actually basically terman.
He was rott Weiler, Akita, chow, and pitbull. But then
I like went back to the neighborhood where he had
been found and tried to find people that you know,
recognized him. And the sort of the last ditch thing
I did was was go to an animal communicator that
I had met earlier and just asked her, you know,
(22:21):
to get Ace to tell her his history. So that
was that's one part of this series I did about him.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Fantastic and so Ace has all the good stuff inside
of him. He's got all the best of everything.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
You know, if reputations were correct, which they're not, you
think he'd be totally vicious.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
But he's sweets me.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
He's a therapy dog, he works with kids a lot,
and he's he's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
There you go. You know, it just spells the rumors
we talk a lot about, you know, pitt Bulls. Obviously
the negative attention they're getting right now, but they're one
of the sweetest, loving family dogs you could possibly have.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
And then the second time I went was recently, and
this relates to the how much pets love their routine
because after I finished dogg Inc, I was still basically unemployed,
so just doing the websites that I do. So I
decided I could be unemployed and see the country at
the same time.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So so I put everything in storage and we took.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
Off on our journey in our car, trying to you know,
be really cheap and not spend much money, and been
at it like eight months now.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
We're still not settled. I'm not sure where we're going next, But.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
After, you know, all all along the way, I wondered,
you know, is Ace enjoying this? He seems to be,
you know, he seems always happy, and you know we're asleep.
But you know, I kept bugging me. You know, am
I am I putting him through too much by by
doing all this traveling. We'd go, you know, we'd stay
a place a night or two and then move on.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And so I.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Eventually ended up in Arizona and spent like a month
there living in a little trailer with Ace, and took
ran to another ANAMAL communicator and took as to her,
asking her, you know, does say like this? Because I
know dogs do love their routines. But I didn't know
whether this the traveling sort of had become the new routine,
(24:14):
if he was enjoying it, or if you really wanted
the old routine back, you know, going to the park
a couple times a day and seeing all the same dogs.
And so see, I got her answer was kind of
what I wanted to hear. I don't know if she
meant it to be what I wanted to do. She
said that Ace kind of saw the traveling, and we
got to a lot of shelters and sanctuaries and things
(24:35):
like that and meet people.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
He sort of saw that as his.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
Mission and job and really enjoyed it, and he liked traveling,
and yet at the same time, he did also look
forward to the day when we were settled in one place.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So yeah, and well, you know, I think that Ace
definitely understands what your goals are, why you're doing this.
I'm sure you've talked to him about it. I'm sure
you've projected it out out. Yeah, And every time you
pull out a map to go to the next place,
you're projecting that visualization and he's picking up on that
visualization as well. So once again, I think it's a
matter of he understands. I think he does want to
(25:12):
help you do your work, and more importantly, you're keeping
him abreast of what's going on. That's the important thing.
You know, there's a big difference when you change their routine.
If you let him know ahead of time what to
expect and what you need from them and why is
it going to be a good thing to do that,
then you're gonna have a lot less stress. But if
you don't do any explanation at all, and you just
throw ace in the back of the car and you're
(25:32):
on your way. Then you're gonna probably have a little
bit of a challenge.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Man, and I should explain to him what's going on now,
except I haven't figured that out myself.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Well, tell us a little bit about this escapade, because
I know you have a blog about it, Your travels
Wace is what the blog is. So tell us how
the journey got started, why'd you decide to do this,
and how's it going so far.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Well, I was.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
Doing when I left the newspaper and was working on
the book. I also started up my own sort of
dog news websit I called oh My Dog O h
M I d o G dot com and which is
a mix you know, news of dogs from around the
world and also you know, personal stories and you know
stories that I report around here in Baltimore. And so
(26:15):
I was doing that, but otherwise I was I was
also looking for a job, getting a lot of rejections,
and it was probably getting to me being unemployed and rejected,
and I felt a bit in a rut.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
So that's sort of what what led to it. So
we traveled.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Initially took off the idea that we'd travel for like
three months and we took like a southern route west
and sometimes we'd set things up, you know, go to
a rescue or shelter sanctuary. Other times we just you know,
sort of have impromptu adventures.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Uh. And it was it was really neat.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
We met really a lot of great people and a
lot of people that like were hospitable and put us.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Up and we Uh.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
One of the highlights was when we were in Dallas,
Ace got to ride in the car with one of
Michael Vick's former dogs who had been adopted by a
person there.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
So that was that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
And so we did like went all the way out west.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
Up to Utah, volunteered for a couple of days at
best Friends, and then came back to Baltimore. And after
that decided that because the whole idea was also kind
of inspired by John Steinbeck and travels with Charlie, decided
that we'd covered the route he covered as well.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So we went up and left.
Speaker 6 (27:38):
The same day he did fifty years later from his
cottage on Long Island, and took the northerly route west
again doing the same thing, stopping and looking for interesting
dog related stories and then came back down through California
back east again, and now I'm not sure it's been
(28:00):
eight or eight to nine months in all, and part
of me, and I think pretty big part of Ace,
wants to be situated for a while, at least in
one place. But he's back now in Baltimore, and even
though I'm not in the same house I used to
be in, we're close to his favorite park, so's he's
(28:21):
thrilled that we still go there every day.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Absolutely. So now you can take all those notes from
the journal that you obviously kept in your online journal
and create the book right travels with the A six.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
That's my hope.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
I haven't officially proposed it yet, but that's my next
task is to try and do that and make it more.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I mean, I love that book.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
And it's a classic, but I wanted to do something
that that's more dog specific than that was more the
dogs more than.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Just like a gimmick.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, personally, I think
it's a great route to go because people may know
the book if they're writers themselves or fans of his work.
But like you said, fifty years ago, so you've got
a whole new audience, a whole new bunch of pet
lovers out there, dog lovers, and they want to hear
things from the dog's point of view. So hey, I
look forward to having you on in about a year
or so to talk about that book.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
It's okay, we'll take you up on that. So, hey,
whatever happened to that idea for a.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Book you had and track you down somewhere on the
road as you're traveling still with Ace. That sounds great,
So tell us a little bit about give everybody the
websites once again. Then go out and check the blogs
out and they can of course know a little bit
more about the book as well as your other blogs
you have.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
Well, my website is oh my Dog. It's O H
M I D O G dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
And then the one I started.
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Up when our travels began, as you said, was is
travels with Ace dot com. And then the website for
my book is dog Incthebook dot com.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
So everybody check out those blogs and we'll have those
available too, and we'll have those posted so everybody can
check that as well. So it's fascinating work, and of
course the book is obviously fascinating, a very interest Stein
and somewhat controversial topic for some people. The book is
Dog Inc. The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning a Man's
Best Friend. So we've been talking to John Weston Dick. John,
(30:12):
thanks for coming on to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio,
and we look forward to keeping up with your travels
and give Ace a big hug for us. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
And if I'm confused about as I'm going to give
you a call telling what's going on in that free
ahead of his Hey.
Speaker 8 (30:28):
We will.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
We'll let you know. And I'm sure he has plenty
to say, so we've looked forward to that.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, he's pretty wordy. I think.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Fantastic. All right, Well, so we've been talking to John
Weston Dick in the book once again is Dog Inc.
The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning a Man's Best Friend. John,
Thanks for coming on to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Thank you. It was fun, all right.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So we're coming up to the end of our show today,
so I'd like to thank everybody for listening to Animal
Rights on Pet Life Radio. At I also like to
thank what's again John Weston Dick for coming on board
and talking to us about all the wonderful that he
does and talking about the book Dog Inc. Thank you
to our sponsors and producers for making this show possible.
To find out more about me, Tim Blink and my
other podcast on pet Life Radio, go to the animal
(31:11):
rights blog and posting on pet Life Radio and make
sure you read the blogs and make sure that you
check out all the shows that we've had on board.
Go to petlife Radio dot com. While you're there, I'd
be sure to check out all the other hosts and
shows on pet Life Radio TUO. So if you have
any questions, comments, show ideas, people you would like to
see on board, drop me a line at timatpetlife radio
(31:34):
dot com. That's Tim at petlife radio dot com, and
I'll do my very best to answer your questions, entertain
your comments, and see if we can get the authors,
writers and bloggers on the show that you would like
to listen to and hear from. So until next time,
write a great story about the animals in your life
and share it on a blog, article, or in a book,
(31:55):
and who knows, you may be the next guest on
animal rights on pet Life Radio. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 10 (32:01):
Let's talk pets every week on demand only on Petlifradio
dot com
You're listening to Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. You're here
with your host Tim Link and we've got another great
show for you today. So I would like to thank
you first of all for joining us. My guest today
is pull Up Surprise winning investigative reporter John Westendick, and
he'll be talking to you with us today about it
recently released book, Dog inc. The Uncanny Inside Story of
(00:32):
Cloning a Man's Best Friend. So it's fascinating topic, could
be controversial, so you never know, so everybody's going to
have to listen and find out more about it. You know,
the story dog Inca The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning
Man's Best Friend. It illustrates the links that dog owners
will go to duplicate their beloved animals. So I'm really
(00:54):
fascinating and interested in talking to John more about the
book and everything that he does as well. But first
I'd like to talk to you about a study that
I found recently. There was a study recently that was published.
It was actually January twenty eleven and it was published
in the issue of Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association.
And the study which took place at Ohio State's Veterinarian
(01:16):
Medical Center. It documented sickness behaviors and healthy cats as
well as in cats with feline interstitial cystitis. Mouthful there,
but basically, it's a chronic illness that causes reoccurring discomfort
or pain in the bladder of your cats, and it
also leads to both urgent and frequent urination by the animals.
(01:41):
So it's a serious disease. But the study, which was
actually given a large grant to find out what causes
this and what causes your cat to not want to
urinate in their litterbox, the study concluded that basically, it's
something I already knew. But the study concluded that the
(02:02):
changes in a cat's routine can cause stress, and with
stress comes to unwanted sickness behaviors, as they call it,
sickness behaviors in your cats that tend to exhibit such
behavior as refusing to eat and we're not using their
litter box. So there's a large grant given for this
study to come back basically saying, keep your cat's life
(02:23):
stress free, keep it on a routine, and you're going
to have a better chance of your cat not getting
this illness. And actually using the litter box, or you
can call me and I'll be able to consult you
on it and we'll find out what's going on there
as well. As an animal communicator, I do do that often.
That's probably the the number one call I get is
why it's Fluffy no longer using the litter box And
(02:44):
perhaps Fluffy is stressed out a little bit, or you've
changed the behavior, or maybe Fluffy has gotten this chronic
illness called ICEE. So interesting study. You know, in the
study it talks about the pets and it went in
a lot of detail about studying the cats and mind
monitoring them on a daily basis. And you know, I
often tell clients that pets are like people. They love
(03:07):
their routines. They don't like to have their routines disrupted.
I know I have to have my first cup of
coffee in the morning for me to be able to function,
and I'm sure cats have to have their first routine
in place as well. So if you're going to change
the routines of your animals, I always recommend that you
talk to the animals and you explain to them how
the change is going to impact them and their normal routine.
(03:29):
You explain to them that what you would like for
them to do to be able to help out with
this situation is changing the routine, and most importantly, you
tell them why it's going to be a good thing.
Why is it going to be okay, Fluffy, that we're
going to change your routine today. So basically tell them,
you know, if you're going to be going on vacation,
you let them know that, Hey, I'm going to be
going on vacation and I'll be back in one week.
(03:51):
What I need you to do is be a great
kiddie for the pet sitter. Use your litter box only
because this is gonna make me really happy and it's
going to cast you a lot less stress. Simple sounds odd,
sounds different, but talking to animals, believe me, it works.
And that is the number one thing I get called
on all the time is about the cats. I found
out that by simply explaining these things your cat and
(04:13):
you can do it with your dog and your other
pets as well. It will ease their anxiety about the
changes and the routine and how they can adjust to
it and what you need from them and why it's
going to be a good thing for them and you know. Now,
if I can only get a major grant to study
this and talk about it as well, then we all
be happy. I know my bank account would be a
little happier too. But it's an interesting study. I think
(04:35):
it's something worthwhile. We're going to post it on the blog,
which is the Animal Rights blog on Petlife Radio. So
go to petlifradio dot com, click on animal rights and
go to the blog. I'll talk a little bit about
the particular study as well as we'll provide a link
to the full article about it. So kudos to Ohio
State University Veterinary School to at least caring about our
(04:55):
cats and wanting to find out how we can keep
their routines the same and keep their lifes rest free.
So interesting article. Interesting article. So we're gonna recome up
to a break, but we're gonna be right back with
John Westindick to talk about dog inc. The uncanny inside
story of cloning a man's best friend. You're listening to
Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
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Speaker 2 (07:52):
All right, welcome back to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
Thanks for joining me today. And on our show, we've
got John Westerdeck coming on and he's recently released his
first book, Dog Inc. The uncanny inside story of Cloning
a Man's Best Friend. So John, welcome to Animal Rights
on pet Life Radio.
Speaker 7 (08:11):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Oh, it's our pleasure. It's a fascinating book. I mean,
obviously you had a great you have a great long history,
Pulitzer Prize winning the Investigative Reporter, and now we're talking
about a wonderful book, a very intriguing book. Called Dog
inc The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning a Man's Best Friend.
So tell us a little bit about the book and
how it came about.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Sure, but we have to go back to the routine
to pets and their routine later because I need some
insights on that.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Okay, we can do that.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
I got started on the book back when I was
still a reporter with the Baltimore Sun and I was
doing their pet blog called Mutts. At the time, it
was mostly about dogs, and I did a short little
blog item on someone had reported that there was an
anonymous woman who was getting her dog cloned. There weren't
(09:01):
too many more details than that, which I found kind
of intriguing. I did a little light them on it,
and the next day I came to work and I
had like fifteen to twenty voicemails from the anonymous woman,
who wasn't anonymous anymore after that. So that's that's the
part of it that really intrigued me most, is that
it sort of struck me as the first time that
(09:24):
we as a society in our history were cloning for
love as opposed to you know, scientific experiment or agriculture.
And that seemed to come you know, kind of close,
especially with dogs who probably non animal closer to us,
as you know, perhaps leading the way to something even.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Scarier exactly, you know. And it's fascinating because I, like
you said, I think everybody heard of cloning of livestock,
and we heard about you know, the sheet that was cloned,
et cetera, and obviously we'd sort of been you know,
at least in my mind, is kind of an It
is very fascinating, but I didn't know it was actually happening.
I didn't know it was actually today present, they're actually
(10:06):
doing that, and people were paying top dollar and hopes
to hold on to their beloved pet in some fashion.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Yeah, and it was actually the whole, the whole impetus
behind it was pretty much to turn it into a
profit making business. And so that the effort to clone
a dog, I mean, everybody remembers Dolly the sheep pretty well.
But the effort to clone a dog started not too
long after that was announced, and the first research was
when it was underway at Texas A and M University,
(10:35):
where it was funded by a private citizen who wanted
his dog cloned. And they tried for several years and
couldn't quite pull it off because dogs proved to be
a lot more difficult to clone than any other animal.
They eventually the company that was funding the effort. Actually though,
even before a dog was cloned, they were selling the
(10:57):
idea of banking your dog's cells for when the day came,
so they were sort of doing business on the promise
that cloning was just around the corner and you should
bank your dog cells now, and a lot of people
did that.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, it's fascinating, but it's also mind boggling because I
love my pets. You know, we've got dogs. Of course,
we've got turtles and rabbits and everything in our birds,
you name it is in our household. We have cats.
But it never occurred to me to do that. You know,
I think I love my pet as well as anybody.
I'm sure you love your dog as well as better
than anybody. It's your best friend. But cloning, I mean,
(11:31):
is that something that you thought of after had been
anticipating since you wrote the book? Is this encountered in
your mind?
Speaker 6 (11:39):
I can understand the temptation to do it. I mean,
I think my dog is like extra special, as everybody
does with their own dogs. And he's about six years
old now, and so you know, every once in a
while I think about, you know, and he's a very
large dog, so he won't live a whole long time.
So I understand, you know, both the sense of loss
(12:02):
that people go through, having been you know, through a
few other dogs, and so I can relate to that.
But I wouldn't never clone my dog. Well, for in
the first place, it costs one hundred thousand dollars, so
that rules me out.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
But you know, even if I could, I wouldn't because I.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Think it would it wouldn't be fair to his memory,
and I probably wouldn't be fair to the clone who
i'd have, you know, all these expectations of you know,
weren't you more like Ace? Why can't you do this
like Ace did and be fair at anybody, including me?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, exactly. And that's a very good point because from
what I understand about the cloning process, you may get
an animal that looks a lot like the original animal,
like Ace in this case, but the personalities of the
two animals are still very unique. And so when people
find this out, what's their overall take, How the response
has been, They've been still just as thrilled because it
(12:57):
sort of still looks like the that had made its transition,
or are they very disappointed because the personality still much different.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
It's been a mixture, even like within the same person,
it's been a mixture. By that, I mean the first
customer who I talked to, you know, throughout the process,
while she was still waiting for it, and when she
meant to pick up her dogs, and after she got
them back, she kind of went back and forth, you know,
when they were pups on how much they physically resembled
the original and in terms of behavior as well.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I mean, the company's the company.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
There's only one that's doing it now in Korea.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
They pretty much guarantee.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
That they'll give you a dog that is physically identical.
But you're right as far as the personality and the
behavior and the temperament are all things that I think
anybody who has a dog knows that a lot of
that comes from the time that the two of you
spend together and how you spend it and.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
How you raise them.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
And I think that's something that sort of evolves over
time and doesn't have a whole lot to do with genes.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, exactly, And that's you know, to me that having
an animal that looks like an animal that I've had
in the past. Obviously, we were humans, so we're attracted
by things that attract our eye to begin with. But
when it boils down to it's really the personality, the
essence of that particular animal that you really, in my opinion,
you hold dear to your heart and you want them
(14:22):
to be identical. You want them to act and play
and get in trouble like your dog used to do.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
And the customers, I mean, there are some customers who
think it's going to be somehow the same dog, that
somehow the soul of their dog that died is going
to re enter the clone and they will have the
same dog again. And I don't know if they're fooling
themselves or wishful thinking or denial or what. But then
again there's others that know it's not the same dog
(14:51):
and it's just as close as they can come to
getting the same dog. So it varies from customer to customer.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Interesting. Interesting, I mean people are doing this. Do you
have they provide any numbers?
Speaker 6 (15:03):
I don't have a definite number. I know. Well, how
it got going was there There were two companies at first,
one that originally called itself Genetic Savings and Clone and that.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Was the one that that's a bad I'm sorry, that's
just bad.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
They were the ones that were hooked up with Texas.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
A and M and had hoped to like, you know,
get cloning accomplished here and clone the dog, clone pats
here for people. That didn't happen. That company went out
of business and then reopened as bio Arts and hooked
up with one of the lead scientists in South Korea
at Sole National University that managed to clone The first
(15:44):
dog was who was Snuppy. It was in Afghan Haan,
who's still around and I got to meet so the
American company. There was an American company and then a
Korean company that was working alongside Sole National University, and
they were both offering to clone dogs.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
The American company is one of the Korean scientists. The
American company.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Initially held an auction, an online auction to clone dogs
and took the highest bidders and sent the dog sells
to Korean had them clone. So they did like six clonings.
The Korean company, which is still in business and.
Speaker 12 (16:21):
Still cloning dogs, has done probably about a dozen and
they expect they say that they make clone as many
as like five hundred dogs in the next year, and
they're building a new facility laboratory.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
In which to do that.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
So you know, there's probably maybe worldwide twenty or so
people that have had this done so far.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Well, fascinating, has passed.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
A lot more have been cloned in connection with for
research purposes, for research.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Exactly, very fascinating. Talking Well, listen, we're going to take
a break here shortly and then come back and we're
going to talk more with John Westondick about his book
Dog Inc. As well as his blogs. I want to
talk about ace and the things that you're up to
there as well. So everybody, hangsight. You're listening to Animal
Rights on pet Life Radio.
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Speaker 2 (20:13):
All right, welcome back, Welcome back, your listen animal rights
on pet Life Radio. And this is Tim Link, your
host and I'm here with John Weston Dick, who is
the author of dog Inc. The Uncanny Inside Story of
Cloning a Man's Best Friend. John, I was reading a
little bit about your history with animal communicators, and as
you may or may not know, I'm an animal communicator
(20:33):
when I'm not doing this wonderful radio show, as well
as wearing hats as author, writer, speaker, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. But after reviewing your book, the thought occurred
to me that I know that you had spoken to
an animal communicator about I believe Ace or one of
your other pets, But did you. I thought it would
be interesting to communicate with one of the clone animals
(20:54):
get their viewpoint on their origination. Have you ever considered,
or have you, as anyone, ever considered an animal communicator
talk to one of the clone pets to get their
viewpoint on life.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Not that I know, but I think.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
That's an awesome idea. Yeah, Yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, I think it would be a real interesting topic
because I called, you know a lot of times and
do consultations, and especially when we're talking to individuals who
have rescued their animals from a shelter or a no
kill rescue, which I applaud. They always want to know
what was the history, you know. I heard a spot
went through all this tragedy in his life in the past,
and so I've had some interesting conversations with them. But
(21:32):
I was wondering, clone dog, what would they have to say.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, that would be fascinating.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
And that's that's sort of how I've taken Age to
an animal communicator twice, two different ones. And the first
time was back when I was a reporter. I did
a series after I adopted him from the shelter here
in Baltimore, trying to figure out his roots and what
his history was and what breeds he was. And so
I did like the DNA test you can do now,
(21:58):
and that determined I did three times actually basically terman.
He was rott Weiler, Akita, chow, and pitbull. But then
I like went back to the neighborhood where he had
been found and tried to find people that you know,
recognized him. And the sort of the last ditch thing
I did was was go to an animal communicator that
I had met earlier and just asked her, you know,
(22:21):
to get Ace to tell her his history. So that
was that's one part of this series I did about him.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Fantastic and so Ace has all the good stuff inside
of him. He's got all the best of everything.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
You know, if reputations were correct, which they're not, you
think he'd be totally vicious.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
But he's sweets me.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
He's a therapy dog, he works with kids a lot,
and he's he's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
There you go. You know, it just spells the rumors
we talk a lot about, you know, pitt Bulls. Obviously
the negative attention they're getting right now, but they're one
of the sweetest, loving family dogs you could possibly have.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
And then the second time I went was recently, and
this relates to the how much pets love their routine
because after I finished dogg Inc, I was still basically unemployed,
so just doing the websites that I do. So I
decided I could be unemployed and see the country at
the same time.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So so I put everything in storage and we took.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
Off on our journey in our car, trying to you know,
be really cheap and not spend much money, and been
at it like eight months now.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
We're still not settled. I'm not sure where we're going next, But.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
After, you know, all all along the way, I wondered,
you know, is Ace enjoying this? He seems to be,
you know, he seems always happy, and you know we're asleep.
But you know, I kept bugging me. You know, am
I am I putting him through too much by by
doing all this traveling. We'd go, you know, we'd stay
a place a night or two and then move on.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And so I.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Eventually ended up in Arizona and spent like a month
there living in a little trailer with Ace, and took
ran to another ANAMAL communicator and took as to her,
asking her, you know, does say like this? Because I
know dogs do love their routines. But I didn't know
whether this the traveling sort of had become the new routine,
(24:14):
if he was enjoying it, or if you really wanted
the old routine back, you know, going to the park
a couple times a day and seeing all the same dogs.
And so see, I got her answer was kind of
what I wanted to hear. I don't know if she
meant it to be what I wanted to do. She
said that Ace kind of saw the traveling, and we
got to a lot of shelters and sanctuaries and things
(24:35):
like that and meet people.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
He sort of saw that as his.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
Mission and job and really enjoyed it, and he liked traveling,
and yet at the same time, he did also look
forward to the day when we were settled in one place.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So yeah, and well, you know, I think that Ace
definitely understands what your goals are, why you're doing this.
I'm sure you've talked to him about it. I'm sure
you've projected it out out. Yeah, And every time you
pull out a map to go to the next place,
you're projecting that visualization and he's picking up on that
visualization as well. So once again, I think it's a
matter of he understands. I think he does want to
(25:12):
help you do your work, and more importantly, you're keeping
him abreast of what's going on. That's the important thing.
You know, there's a big difference when you change their routine.
If you let him know ahead of time what to
expect and what you need from them and why is
it going to be a good thing to do that,
then you're gonna have a lot less stress. But if
you don't do any explanation at all, and you just
throw ace in the back of the car and you're
(25:32):
on your way. Then you're gonna probably have a little
bit of a challenge.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Man, and I should explain to him what's going on now,
except I haven't figured that out myself.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Well, tell us a little bit about this escapade, because
I know you have a blog about it, Your travels
Wace is what the blog is. So tell us how
the journey got started, why'd you decide to do this,
and how's it going so far.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Well, I was.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
Doing when I left the newspaper and was working on
the book. I also started up my own sort of
dog news websit I called oh My Dog O h
M I d o G dot com and which is
a mix you know, news of dogs from around the
world and also you know, personal stories and you know
stories that I report around here in Baltimore. And so
(26:15):
I was doing that, but otherwise I was I was
also looking for a job, getting a lot of rejections,
and it was probably getting to me being unemployed and rejected,
and I felt a bit in a rut.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
So that's sort of what what led to it. So
we traveled.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Initially took off the idea that we'd travel for like
three months and we took like a southern route west
and sometimes we'd set things up, you know, go to
a rescue or shelter sanctuary. Other times we just you know,
sort of have impromptu adventures.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Uh. And it was it was really neat.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
We met really a lot of great people and a
lot of people that like were hospitable and put us.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Up and we Uh.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
One of the highlights was when we were in Dallas,
Ace got to ride in the car with one of
Michael Vick's former dogs who had been adopted by a
person there.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
So that was that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
And so we did like went all the way out west.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
Up to Utah, volunteered for a couple of days at
best Friends, and then came back to Baltimore. And after
that decided that because the whole idea was also kind
of inspired by John Steinbeck and travels with Charlie, decided
that we'd covered the route he covered as well.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So we went up and left.
Speaker 6 (27:38):
The same day he did fifty years later from his
cottage on Long Island, and took the northerly route west
again doing the same thing, stopping and looking for interesting
dog related stories and then came back down through California
back east again, and now I'm not sure it's been
(28:00):
eight or eight to nine months in all, and part
of me, and I think pretty big part of Ace,
wants to be situated for a while, at least in
one place. But he's back now in Baltimore, and even
though I'm not in the same house I used to
be in, we're close to his favorite park, so's he's
(28:21):
thrilled that we still go there every day.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Absolutely. So now you can take all those notes from
the journal that you obviously kept in your online journal
and create the book right travels with the A six.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
That's my hope.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
I haven't officially proposed it yet, but that's my next
task is to try and do that and make it more.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I mean, I love that book.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
And it's a classic, but I wanted to do something
that that's more dog specific than that was more the
dogs more than.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Just like a gimmick.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, personally, I think
it's a great route to go because people may know
the book if they're writers themselves or fans of his work.
But like you said, fifty years ago, so you've got
a whole new audience, a whole new bunch of pet
lovers out there, dog lovers, and they want to hear
things from the dog's point of view. So hey, I
look forward to having you on in about a year
or so to talk about that book.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
It's okay, we'll take you up on that. So, hey,
whatever happened to that idea for a.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Book you had and track you down somewhere on the
road as you're traveling still with Ace. That sounds great,
So tell us a little bit about give everybody the
websites once again. Then go out and check the blogs
out and they can of course know a little bit
more about the book as well as your other blogs
you have.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
Well, my website is oh my Dog. It's O H
M I D O G dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
And then the one I started.
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Up when our travels began, as you said, was is
travels with Ace dot com. And then the website for
my book is dog Incthebook dot com.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
So everybody check out those blogs and we'll have those
available too, and we'll have those posted so everybody can
check that as well. So it's fascinating work, and of
course the book is obviously fascinating, a very interest Stein
and somewhat controversial topic for some people. The book is
Dog Inc. The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning a Man's
Best Friend. So we've been talking to John Weston Dick. John,
(30:12):
thanks for coming on to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio,
and we look forward to keeping up with your travels
and give Ace a big hug for us. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
And if I'm confused about as I'm going to give
you a call telling what's going on in that free
ahead of his Hey.
Speaker 8 (30:28):
We will.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
We'll let you know. And I'm sure he has plenty
to say, so we've looked forward to that.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, he's pretty wordy. I think.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Fantastic. All right, Well, so we've been talking to John
Weston Dick in the book once again is Dog Inc.
The Uncanny Inside Story of Cloning a Man's Best Friend. John,
Thanks for coming on to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Thank you. It was fun, all right.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So we're coming up to the end of our show today,
so I'd like to thank everybody for listening to Animal
Rights on Pet Life Radio. At I also like to
thank what's again John Weston Dick for coming on board
and talking to us about all the wonderful that he
does and talking about the book Dog Inc. Thank you
to our sponsors and producers for making this show possible.
To find out more about me, Tim Blink and my
other podcast on pet Life Radio, go to the animal
(31:11):
rights blog and posting on pet Life Radio and make
sure you read the blogs and make sure that you
check out all the shows that we've had on board.
Go to petlife Radio dot com. While you're there, I'd
be sure to check out all the other hosts and
shows on pet Life Radio TUO. So if you have
any questions, comments, show ideas, people you would like to
see on board, drop me a line at timatpetlife radio
(31:34):
dot com. That's Tim at petlife radio dot com, and
I'll do my very best to answer your questions, entertain
your comments, and see if we can get the authors,
writers and bloggers on the show that you would like
to listen to and hear from. So until next time,
write a great story about the animals in your life
and share it on a blog, article, or in a book,
(31:55):
and who knows, you may be the next guest on
animal rights on pet Life Radio. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 10 (32:01):
Let's talk pets every week on demand only on Petlifradio
dot com
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