April 28, 2025 • 43 mins
*Part 1 of the trauma discussion* Morgan brings on Trauma Therapist & expert in all things trauma, Lauren Auer. She shares why it became important for her to explore this specialty in therapy, the technological advancements out there that can help with trauma, and why she dubbed the word "traumalescents." Lauren also shares an important analogy to understand trauma within people and why it looks different for everyone. She also shares why survival mode is important, but also how to stop the ruminating cycle as well as what it looks like when we don't heal our trauma.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personally with fuels Man. Happy Monday, friends, I'm really excited
to have you here this week. We are going to
change up the podcast just as much. I've always been
transparent honest with you guys. So usually we do two
people an episode, an expert and then someone to come
on and share their real life story. Now that concept
is not changing. I love it so much and I
(00:35):
love what it's doing for people, but we're gonna break
down the episode just a little bit further. So we're
gonna do one person a time for each episode, but
two back to back episodes, maybe even three. We'll have
a similar theme, the same concept, it's just broken down.
I felt like we were jamming so much good stuff
into one episode, and I'd love to start to go
(00:56):
into more depth with some of these interviews. Plus, if
I'm being totally transparent with you guys, I was starting
to get some very real burnout just trying to do
way too much that I don't even have hours in
the day to sleep or shower. So breaking this down
not only helps me, but I also feel like it's
gonna really allow me to continue this podcast in much broader,
(01:18):
bigger ways. So this week and next we are focused
on trauma and how that impacts our lives. This week,
I'm bringing on trauma therapist Lauren Hour. She has years
of experience working in trauma and this is truly her expertise,
So she has incredible knowledge for us and it'll be
really important not only hearing this, but going into next
(01:39):
week's episode with Hailey Dollar Hide. Lauren Ur is joining
me right now, and she is a trauma therapist. Lauren,
thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I'm really excited to know from you. What got you
into this line of work, specifically this specialty.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it was unintentional. Originally, when I was in graduate school,
I didn't really know who I wanted to work with.
I had some categories of I didn't want to work
with kids, and I was pretty sure I didn't want
to work with couples. But I really at the end
of the day, was like, whatever, I'll just try things out.
(02:22):
And I ended up getting an internship in a agency
that worked with both offenders, juvenile offenders as well as
victims of abuse and their families, and so I had
really wanted to work with kids. I definitely was like, ah,
that sounds like the scariest population to work with in
terms of abuse, and that sounds really heavy, but I
(02:44):
actually ended up really loving it. It was such a
unique learning experience, I think, especially working with kind of
the three layers of victims as well as offenders and
their family seen trauma from these different angles, and so
(03:05):
that was it was really fascinating to me, and kind
of from there, I just ended up landing in similar
situations in terms of where I was drawn to with
my work. So I worked at a women's domestic violent
shelter as well, and then a rape crisis center as
a therapist where we worked with people of all ages,
(03:27):
and then I became the director of that center, and
so at that point I was not only working with
clients that had experienced a lot of trauma, but I
was also very much in a role of community outreach.
So I was doing trainings for like police and medical staff,
(03:49):
and supervising interns and other therapists, and working with people
at that vicarious trauma level, so like people in the
field that we're dealing with maybe their own trauma, but
also maybe being traumatized by some of the populations they
were working with. And so it was very interesting to
(04:11):
me to see things from all these different angles, all
these different layers, and that center that I worked for,
we would see people in crisis situation, so we would
show up at the emergency room, let's say, if they're
getting like an evidence collection kit done, so like really
immediate trauma, all the way to people coming in for
(04:31):
therapy later in life when they hadn't dealt with something
that maybe happened in their childhood, so like very far
removed from the trauma. And so it just became these
put in became something I was really passionate about because
I feel like I learned so much just from doing
(04:52):
that work about trauma. Like I'd obviously learned about it
in grad school and read all the books, but really
just being in those environments and working with people, it
was just like the best education I think you could
possibly get in terms of what trauma is, how it looks,
all the different ways it can manifest and yeah, so
(05:16):
total crash course. And then I open my own practice
after that, so now that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Wow, Yeah, you really have seen it from just so
many different steps and angles, And that's so interesting to
me because trauma is one of those things that it's
not a one size fits all, even though it could
be a similar scenario. It's something that has so many
multifaceted layers to it. And that's why I'm so intrigued
(05:43):
and wanted to dedicate not only in like an entire
episode and few episodes to it. I have a guest
coming on after you in the following episode who's going
to share her story actually of some of these things
that you talked about that she had happened in her life.
And it's wild as we see people experience these things
and what it does not just in that moment, but
(06:05):
throughout the entire course of their life. So when you
go and you do this kind of work, especially frontlines,
and you have these initial moments and you're working with people,
what are those things that you're experiencing with people and
you're seeing them experience where you're like, other people should
know what this might look like in case it happens
(06:26):
to them.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, it's really interesting because if you would have asked
me that after doing graduate work and learning, reading books
or whatever, I probably would have been able to rattle
off some typical symptoms or things we might see. But
after doing this work for as long as I have.
I think one of the biggest things that stands out
(06:50):
to me is that it can look so many different ways.
I've been in emergency rooms with people getting evidence collection
kits done after sexual assaults, where we're like laughing and joking,
and that's like their way of coping, like that's their
trauma response. I've been with people that are their immediate
(07:12):
response is to take care of everybody else around them,
or just go into planning and doing mode where they're
being really productive and really advocating heavily or getting things done.
Of course, I've sat with people that are very emotional
or angry or dissociated, like checked out. It's incredible, I think,
(07:34):
just the human capacity to deal with things and those
automatic responses that we develop when it comes to trauma.
And I think maybe initially I would have thought that
those people that were taking care of others or seemed
really strong or laughing, that oh, those are like the
(07:54):
resilient people that aren't super affected by this. But that's
not necessarily the truth. I think sometimes those people that
have that trauma response of taking care of other people
or of putting the focus elsewhere, it's still living in them. Internally,
and sometimes that is harder to process through and heal
(08:18):
from when they're not just maybe doing what you would
typically expect somebody in a traumatic situation. And so I
guess that's a non answer.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
No, it's your question, but it's perfect actually because I
love to showcase that it doesn't look like you think
it would look always right.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And also to add to that, I think it's important
to keep in mind that when it comes to what
we would consider to be trauma, it's not really about
the event or events themselves or the circumstances as much
as it's about how that individual person, their nervous system,
(08:59):
their brain, and how they experience it. I often compare
it to like if two people were in a car
and gotten a car accident and vendor bender. Everyone's okay,
they get up. One of them might be shaken up
a little bit and just like we got through that
and really able to go on with their life. The
(09:19):
other person could be extremely anxious and panicky and not
want to drive and really having flashbacks in a hard
time or whatever it is, and they experience the exact
same event, but one of them might have experienced that
event as traumatic, whereas the other one maybe didn't. And
so keeping that in mind too, that we can't always
(09:42):
just look at a set of circumstances and assume how
somebody could feel and can you experience that?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, can you break that down even a little bit
further for me, because why is it that some people
This kind of goes more into maybe more of the
science side of things, but why is it that some
people can process trauma easier, quicker, or so we think,
while others really internalize it becomes a whole part of
their body, and it's this whole process. Is there things
(10:12):
that you've seen and experienced that makes sense for us
to describe why that happens?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, And I think it's it can be a little
bit complex and multifaceted, and there's so many factors at
play there, and so there's like the immediate things that
are going on. So for instance, in that example with
the car accident, maybe one of the people in the
(10:40):
car is having a hard time finding a job and
they don't have a lot of resources, or they are
going through some sort of upheaval or distress in their life,
or dealing with other mental health concerns, or like there's
all those immediate things that could be at play that
if they're baseline going into that experience, if they're already
(11:04):
dysregulated by a variety of other things going on, that
is going to impact them on a different level. But
it's also very historical. I think if they have dealt
with a lot of other traumatic things throughout their life,
if they've had access to processing those things and dealing
(11:27):
with them or not, what does the support system look
like going forward in the future. Are they going home
to a supportive and safe home where they have people
that they can talk to, do they have access to resources.
There's all of these factors like past, present, future that
(11:50):
kind of make up this unique circumstance around it. And
I'm such like an analogy person and I'm also like
a huge plant person. I have to buy plants all
the time, especially because it's becoming spring. But if you
think of your nervous system like a plant, like each
plant has very unique needs based on a genetic makeup
(12:11):
and growing conditions. You'll go to a nursery and this
one needs a lot of sun, and this one actually
does better with some shade, And this one needs to
be watered frequently, and that one, oh barely water it
at all. They all have this kind of makeup already
in their system of what they need. Humans are the
same way, but it's all of those things about how
(12:31):
consistent is the care that you're giving it. Are there
periods of drought our systems, we have our own individual
capacities for processing experiences. So some plants can become like
really hardy and maybe there's like lots of exposure to
wind and harsh conditions, while others are used to growing
in more like delicate or protected spaces. So some might
(12:55):
develop deeper roots from early stress while other create broader
leaves because they have abundance in their conditions and trauma
that can happen when we're flooded with either more than
we can absorb at once. So that would maybe look
like if you had a new little plant, had you
left it outside and there was a sudden downpour that
(13:18):
overwhelms the system rather than nourishes it, Like that could
be a really big I think a lot of times
when we think of trauma like a really big devastating
event happening, right, that's like that downpour. But it can
also occur when you're exposed to harsh conditions for too long.
So like maybe a plant could thrive in heat for
(13:44):
a day, but if it's in hot heat and it's
not designed for that for days or weeks, it's too
much for too long, and that could really hurt it,
or it could develop, trauma could develop if you're deprived
of what you need to thrive, going to too long
without water or light, like being neglected. It's not always
(14:04):
something happening around you or to you, but also it
can be like the absence of what you need for
too long, and so like even two plants of the
same species might need different amounts of care based on
their unique growing history. Too. There's not just like a
perfect formula around that. So it's not like about the
(14:26):
weather itself as much as it's about each individual plants
system and how it responds to that environment. It's really
the same way with how our nervous systems develop. We
have very unique requirements based on our genetic blueprint and
also all these other environmental factors around us.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I love an analogy. So the way that you just
painted that so perfectly with plants and allows people to
understand it just in this deeper way beautiful.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The reason my analogies don't hit, But I feel like
that one I think is pretty all encompassing of what
trauma is like.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
No, it definitely is. And the reason I even asked
that question is because I think it's really easy for
us to get caught up in this belief that I
didn't experience it that way, so why are they experiencing
it that way? We like to really just put people
in our own boxes instead of understanding that we are
(15:25):
individual and we have unique experiences, and so having you
share that in that way hopefully can really help people
just be a little bit more understanding of those experiences
and that it's not they're not going to react the
same way you choose to react.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's going to be different exactly. Yeah, And when you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
This too, it had me thinking of a lot of
what we see on social media is people talking about
little tea's and big teas. Do you feel like that's
really the case or is it just it's.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Just trauma or is that like little.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Tea Big Tea actually helpful and truthful in our experience
in our learning.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, I think there's a place for it. I used
to teach that and train that because that was the standard.
But I guess for me personally, I don't love the
language of little and big because I think it can suggest,
oh that one's not as serious as this other thing.
(16:27):
I think what it's really trying to say by using
little and big is more how I was describing with
the plants, like a sudden downpour, like all at once,
too much that is big, that would be an overwhelm
in a short period of time, whereas little ty, I
(16:48):
think is more the like could be like the neglect
or the just not having enough for too long. And
again there's so many. I think it goes so much
deeper than that, and so I shy away personally from
using that language just because I think it can create
some misconception and even some shame around maybe if people
(17:12):
are dealing with a lot of trauma responses, but on paper,
the things that they've experienced are quote little that they
may think that they there's something wrong with them, or
they're making too much of something, or other people don't
understand or invalidating their own experiences. It's just so personal
(17:33):
an individual to how somebody experiences something, and for there
to be any sort of outward perception of that is
basically impossible because we as an outsider, like I can't
know all of the environmental, genetic, circumstantial all of these things.
(17:55):
There's no way for me to know that unless that
person shares that with me.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
It totally came to my mind because I remember one time,
I think I was sitting in the therapy session and
I referred to something as like, oh, it's just like
a little tea, And I even felt weird saying it,
like I felt myself invalidating what I experienced. And I
don't know if it was because people made me feel
that way or if I just personally felt that way
because I had bigger traumas, But I remember just even
(18:24):
saying it, I'm like, you know what, No, it's not
Actually that was really traumatic, and why am I downplaying
that experience? So I'm glad that you shared that because
it's helpful. Just talking about everything in the mental health
space is helpful. We're communicating finally about something that's really important.
But using harmful language can also make it really difficult
(18:46):
on us to truly heal.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right, Yeah, And I think there's also an important thing
to keep in mind about how important like what happens
next is and what I mean by that is you
know there's a traumatic event itself. Let's just say abuse.
If a kid experiences abuse, and then that's a traumatic event.
(19:12):
But then they tell a parent, hey, this thing happened
to me, and if the parent's reaction is like they
don't believe them, or they're downplaying it, or they are
blaming them, or even if the parent's reaction is devastated
and very emotional, and then the parent can't function and
(19:35):
the parent like there's all of these kind of like
after effects. I think too that can create sometimes an
even bigger wound and there can be even more trauma
associated with that. Or maybe even being in an environment
where they feel like they can't share what happened to
them because they don't feel like either they have safe
(19:58):
adults or they don't think that the adults in their
life are able to handle that. Maybe they're trying to
protect that adult. There's so many things there too that
I think is also really important to consider when we're
talking about what trauma is and how we experience it.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I was just thinking about that when you were mentioning
in it, because so many of these very emotional topics
and things that are referred to as trauma do often
come around with this part of I don't believe your
experience or it's not.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
What you think it was, or invalidating.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
That, and I do believe that is trauma within itself.
To not have people understand or believe.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You, right, Yeah, And sometimes I mean the rupture that
can cause an attachment or even feeling safe enough to
heal through that, or the what happens next can be huge.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So yeah, when, yeah, when something happens, this piece of
trauma that happens in your life and it's going to
play out, maybe it's days, months, years, how do you
know that you're still living within that trauma versus being
healed from it?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah? Yeah, I know these are the complex I think
there's so many things that we experience that I think
a lot of times we don't even realize have anything
to do with trauma. Because a lot of times I'll
see people in therapy and maybe let's say they're dealing
(21:41):
with anxiety. That's something that comes up for them a lot,
maybe social anxiety, let's say, And maybe they've done therapy,
maybe they've done self help or read the books or
listen to all the podcasts or whatever, but they maybe
they get to a point where they understand logically why
they have social anxiety. Maybe they're able to say, okay,
(22:04):
that makes sense because I had some really close friends
and then we got in a big fight and then
I felt really abandoned or whatever. Like I can point
to things in my life that it makes sense that
when I'm in social situations now that I would be anxious.
That's great, But just having that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean
(22:26):
that all of a sudden the anxiety is gone, right,
And so I think sometimes people can feel really stuck
in that of wait, I've done all this work, I
can put logic behind it. It makes sense. But when
I get invited to a social event, my body is
tense and I'm breathing differently, and I am feeling like
I don't want to be there, and I'm second guessing
(22:48):
everything I say. They're still experiencing it, and so it's
not enough to just know the why around it, because
the parts of your brain that are activated when you're
experiencing something traumatic is not the logical part of your brain,
(23:08):
that prefrontal cortex that can give explanation and put sense
to it when you're actually experiencing those things. It is
like that deeper, more instinctual part of your brain, the
like fight flight freeze, the knee jerk emotion, the knee
jerk reaction, how your body braces in those moments, and
(23:31):
really your logical part of your brain goes offline when
that's happening. Just like I talk a lot about. To
illustrate this, if you've ever been driving in the car
and all of a sudden, the car in front of
you slams on their brake, and so you slam on
your brake and you like put the like phantom arm
out to just.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Stop, what we call the mom arm, like that right, and.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
There's like nothing there, Like it's just an empty seat.
But it's just that like instinctual reaction that we do.
And that's such a small little example, but it's a
really good illustration of the fact that logically there's nothing there,
Like it doesn't make sense, you're not protecting the invisible enough,
But it is just what your body does. It's just
(24:17):
that initial bracing and I think a lot of trauma
that we experience however that looks there is just those
instinctual reactions. That's how we're wired as humans who be
and so being able to actually heal from that and
go beyond that stuffness of I can make sense of it,
(24:39):
but I'm still having these reactions. A lot of that
really has to do with processing from the parts of
your brain that we're actually online during the trauma, and
so there's all sorts of therapy techniques and modalities that
get into that that kind of fall under this matic category.
(25:01):
But it's about being in tune with your body and
what's going on when you think about that, and what
are you feeling, and what are the sensations. And therapies
like EMDR and brain spotting and polyvagel therapy, there's a
ton that kind of fall in that category, but really
being able to bring your body into the therapy work
(25:24):
is what can really facilitate healing in the sense of
where those automatic reactions aren't coming up as strongly.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And I did see on your profile that you do
have work in EMDR, brain spotting, IFS somatic. Can you
just little kind of exerts of what each of these
things are because having resources and sometimes people don't even
know these things exist.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, And I think it can be very confusing looking
for a therapist because there's all these acronyms and all
these specialties, and I think people are like, oh, that
person there profile says their trauma informed, but that could
mean that they took a trauma class in college twenty
years ago. I think it is good to have some
level of understanding of maybe like what some of these
(26:11):
things are. Emdr and brain spotting are two techniques that
follow the same neuroscience, two different ways to go about it,
and it basically utilizes the neurobiology of how our nervous
system is connected to our brain and how we process
things and bilateral movements or eye position, because our eyes,
(26:38):
how they where they look, how they look, all of
that stuff is really how our brain is processing through
things and activating all those other parts of our brain
the left and the right hemisphere. And so it's like
these specific techniques that are designed to I guess, wake
up or activate those deeper parts of your brain while
(27:00):
you're doing the processing in a slow way, in a
controlled way. That's another thing. Like we say fast as
slow and slow as fast. You really can't rush through it.
I always say it's hard to explain it because it
sounds really weird. It'd be like me trying to explain
to somebody like how to ride a bike if they've
(27:21):
never even seen a bike. I really think there is
part of it. You almost have to do it because
you're activating the subcortical systems of your brain. Subcortical meaning
the parts that are without word and without logic, and
so to explain it in logical ways with words, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
But it's also cool because you're tapping into a part
of your brain that to us feels like it's not
active even though it is, but because it's not transferring
language in the way that we understand, this is a
way to access a piece of view. It's kind of
like plugging yourself into an outlet and being like the
whole thing actually finally turns on and it is how
I'm like seeing it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, basically, yeah, because if you think about it, how
often you're just going about your life and you know
you're walking, but you're not like going, okay, lift this
leg up, put this leg down, now this one. Like
it's just so automatic where we're not actually in our body,
we're not thinking about it. You could be off in
(28:19):
your mind thinking about something completely random or fully going
through a task physically, and so it's so natural for
humans to not actually fully be in their body when
they are just going about day to day life. But
especially I think sometimes when we're recalling things like memories
(28:41):
or emotional pieces of trauma, it's almost like we naturally
go away from our body and just go up to
our brain of like telling the story, and that feels
almost protective in a way, and it's not conscious, but
that is what we do. And so being able to
(29:03):
create that like slow it down and create that safety,
wake up the whole body and the whole presence while
being able to process through stuff, that's what's going to
create the change.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Is this also when you can access something because I
know and like the trauma that I've experienced, there'll be
moments where before I had really worked through a lot
of stuff where I really packed it down and pushed
it away. Does EMDR and brain spotting help you access
the stuff that you pushed out of your mind in
a way?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah? Sometimes, Okay, sometimes not. I think sometimes people are
afraid to do these types of therapies because they're fearful
about what if I recall memories or what if I've
blocked something out that comes up whatever. Sometimes that may happen. However,
our brains are incredible that when our brains do block
(29:59):
out memories or we don't have access to that, there's
a reason for that. Our brains are always trying to
protect us, and your brain is not going to recall
those things if it doesn't feel safe enough to do so.
So sometimes that is a slow process, and you can
trust easy in the fact that if memories are coming up,
(30:21):
it is because you are at a regulated enough place
to be able to handle those things. Also, there are
sometimes things like pre verbal memories or medical trauma where
maybe you're under anesthesia or something where you literally aren't
going to have active memory and you can't recall that,
(30:43):
but your body was still experiencing whatever that is. And
so sometimes there is truly no memory associated with trauma
that we've experienced, and it's not necessarily the goal. You
don't need to have the memory in order to heal
from it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Wow, it's so cool that we have access to these
things and to be able to do this to help ourselves.
I don't want to just slide past that because the
fact that we have technology and things like this in
place to start to heal ourselves is such a cool
place to be in in life. So that's just awesome
to me. As I'm sitting here thinking about this.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's incredible. I like geek out over what I do
every day and just the stuff that I like. The
healing I see is just incredible. I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So you're doing incredible work and making some very big
life changes for people on that flip side of trauma.
What happens if we don't heal our trauma? What happens
if we just go through our life and we just
keep shoving it down, pushing it away, not ever facing it.
It just stays down, never comes back out. Yeah, what
(31:53):
does that look like in somebody? Because I do think
a lot of people experience this, like with people in
their lives where they're like, you haven't worked through anything,
and I can feel this coming out at me. So
what can that look like for someone? Because I think
it helps us understand a little bit more just maybe
what people are going through.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Like those things. It doesn't just dissipate. I'll give you
another analogy because I just can't help it how my
brain works.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But I love analogies, so you can can't.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, it's if you had a room in your house
that it was like your junk room and everything. I'll
deal with that later. Went into that room, and then
you shut the door, like you could shut the door
and pretend it's not there. It's not going to just
go away, and eventually, like there is going to be
other consequences to that. In that sense, maybe it's like
(32:45):
eventually you need to sell your house, and now it's
this huge thing. Like sometimes there's something that happens where
it's like you can't avoid it because something so big happens.
I feel like I saw this a lot, like in
COVID times that people were able to manage or push
down whatever it was, but when this global thing was
(33:07):
happening for some people, that was the straw that broke
the camel's back. There is some unrelated thing and sometimes
even like a small thing that is just going to
tip that scale and then all of a sudden you
start feeling really overwhelming symptoms. I do think that sometimes
people can successfully shove it down for a period of time,
(33:33):
but it's like holding a beach ball underwater, like you can.
You really have to struggle to keep that in, and
eventually it might be too much to hold that down
whatever that looks like. And so a lot of times
it does even come out in little reactions, little moods,
or how we are doing in relationships with other people
(33:59):
are tended sees to maybe shut people out or like
all sorts of things. A lot of times it comes
out like we cope with things through things like addictions
or all these other things that might not be a
huge problem, and I don't like to pathologize even that stuff.
It might be an unpopular thing, but even addiction, right
(34:19):
if somebody leaned on an addiction or a substance to
numb themselves, Let's say after traumatic things happened because they
just maybe didn't have the capacity or the resources, or
they just straight up weren't ready to touch it, and
they found something that got them through that time to
(34:42):
where they could manage day to day hopefully to a
point where you know, usually that thing that helped them
manage becomes its own problem and then now they're dealing
with the consequences of that. I'm like, I'm so happy
that they found something to get them by when they
needed to. Also there's consequences to that, and sometimes then
(35:06):
it's a bigger problem. But we do need those things,
even if they're unhealthy, even if they aren't really serving
us long term. It's not always realistic to oh I
experienced a trauma, like going to go start journaling every
day and get into a yoga practice. That's not always possible.
So yeah, I think sometimes we do what we need
(35:27):
to do to get by, but sometimes those things we
do to get by become their own beast. And sometimes
people go to therapy I think because they think the
problem is the addiction or the relationship problems or whatever
it is, and it is the problem, but like, where
did that problem come from? Almost always it's going to
(35:49):
connect somewhere to some sort of trauma that they've experienced
at some point in their life. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
We talk a lot about root causes on this podcast,
and man if that ain't the cure all for just
about everything. Is like you got to get to the
root of something that's happening instead of just fixing something
with a band aid, right, mental, physical health, all the things.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, so something that's also very much involved with trauma.
I got a question about this from a few different
people actually, which makes me think a lot of people
are handling this in this way, but you end up
in a survival mode or a fight or flight, and
you just ruminate in this cycle of that for however long,
(36:36):
and it's really.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Hard to break yourself out of that.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
However that looks like for someone who's trying to get
out of survival mode or a fight or flight or
that freeze that you mentioned too, what are some first
steps they can take to break that ruminating cycle that.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Part of them that is, let's say we'll go with
fight being reactive or touchy or it has big emotions,
that part of them. It's not connected to the fact
that there's not that same level of threat in the moment.
It's like logically they might know this is different than
the trauma I experienced, but it's an automatic reaction that's
(37:17):
coming up because their system is just noticing things in
their environment, triggers whatever it may be, just regulation and
like ringing the alarm bell, and so those reactions come
up automatically, and so part of it is having that understanding,
(37:39):
so you're not adding fuel to the fire by blaming
yourself or being hard on yourself for that of this
is automatic. This is just it's happening. Detaching that extra
layer of shame and blame that you have, but also
trying to understand what purpose that might be. Certain, because
(38:02):
if your system thinks that it's going to be in danger,
your system is going to react. It just is and
that's wonderful because you want your system to react if
it feels like there's danger. But again, I think it
really goes back to being able to not just put
the logic behind it, but like connecting those parts of
the brain and helping bring your body into that processing
(38:27):
so that you can logically understand it, but you're really
what needs to happen is your cells, your nervous system,
your body needs to understand like this is different and
I'm safe now, and there's I think there's like some
self talk and stuff that can go along with that
as well, but it is a process and like allowing
(38:49):
yourself the time that it needs to get through that
period of time.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, for sure, I appreciate you answering that for some people,
because I do think actually coming out of COVID, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
That caused a lot for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
But more than that, we're just in some crazy times
right now and people are going through it. You dubbed
a new word in healing called trauma lessence.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Am I saying that correctly. Yeah, can you break.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That down for me and what it looks like, because
when I watched this content, I was like, Oh, this
is so cool and super important.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
How like when you become a parent, when you become
a mother, how it can feel almost like adolescence in
that you're like trying to figure out like who am I?
Where do I fit? Like what is my That kind
of like awkward new version of yourself, trying to figure
out the bridge between who you were and who you
(39:42):
now are. And I noticed that in trauma healing, I
was seeing a lot of that too, of this kind
of what felt like almost like adolescent period in the
healing process of like huh, now that I see this
thing differently, or now that I don't have those certain
(40:03):
reactions coming up as big anymore, or now that I'm
looking at this thing in a new light, who am
I without the identity of the trauma and the stuff
around me? And how it's a period of time that
can feel really vulnerable and really scary, but it's also
like really good and beautiful, and so I get excited
(40:25):
and when therapy, when people are like coming to me
and being like, man, like I don't know why I
all of a sudden, I don't know what to do
with myself. Who am I? Or ugh? I always used
to just you know, nod and smile in these certain situations,
and now I find myself like speaking up and that's scary,
(40:48):
and like what does that mean? Like all of these
things that almost freak them out about themselves, and I'm like, yay,
Like healing is happening. It's exciting, and I feel like
that's just people becoming who they are actually are without
all the junk that forced them to adapt in all
these different ways. It's like almost like refinding themselves.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah. I loved that word, and I love that so
thanks for coming up with it. And I do like
to end our episodes always with whether it's a piece
of advice, whether it's something that we didn't touch on
that you feel is so important. I leave it open
ended up to you that you like to leave us
on this place. So Flora is yours. Let me know
if there's anything that comes to mind for you.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Oh gosh, so much. I'm biased, obviously, but like I
think everybody can benefit from therapy, whether they feel like
they have quote little P trauma or big T trauma
or anything at all, Like being a human is hard,
and there's always going to be stuff. I know that
(41:53):
there can obviously be barriers for people finding a good therapist,
fit or feeling like they can and access those things.
At the end of the day, the best thing you
can do for yourself and all the people around you
is to get to know yourself and figure out who
you are without all of that other stuff getting in
(42:16):
the way. And you know, I always say trauma can
be passed down through generations, so can healing. It's never
too late. It's not like, oh, that happened forever ago.
It's truly never too late. I just really encourage anybody
that if they have any inkling of I should do that. Eventually.
Listen to that, do that. It's one of the best
(42:37):
things you can do for yourself.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yes, there's a perfect way to end one.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
We did it.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So thank you so much Lauren for being here, for
sharing your expertise and just helping change the world for
some people because it's important.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm always happy to
talk about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
If you want to follow Lauren on socials, her instagram
is your Trauma Therapist Underscore I'll put it in the
description too. Next week, my friend Hailey dollar Hie joins
me to share some of the trauma she's experienced and
how it's impacted her throughout her life. Her story is
one of a lot of resilience and so much strength,
so don't miss it. You can follow the podcast Instagram,
(43:15):
take this personally, and don't forget to hit subscribe and
rate five stars because we do have some trollers hanging
out in the reviews. As always, I'm really happy you're here,
thanks for listening, and you guys are awesome. We'll talk
next week.
Personally with fuels Man. Happy Monday, friends, I'm really excited
to have you here this week. We are going to
change up the podcast just as much. I've always been
transparent honest with you guys. So usually we do two
people an episode, an expert and then someone to come
on and share their real life story. Now that concept
is not changing. I love it so much and I
(00:35):
love what it's doing for people, but we're gonna break
down the episode just a little bit further. So we're
gonna do one person a time for each episode, but
two back to back episodes, maybe even three. We'll have
a similar theme, the same concept, it's just broken down.
I felt like we were jamming so much good stuff
into one episode, and I'd love to start to go
(00:56):
into more depth with some of these interviews. Plus, if
I'm being totally transparent with you guys, I was starting
to get some very real burnout just trying to do
way too much that I don't even have hours in
the day to sleep or shower. So breaking this down
not only helps me, but I also feel like it's
gonna really allow me to continue this podcast in much broader,
(01:18):
bigger ways. So this week and next we are focused
on trauma and how that impacts our lives. This week,
I'm bringing on trauma therapist Lauren Hour. She has years
of experience working in trauma and this is truly her expertise,
So she has incredible knowledge for us and it'll be
really important not only hearing this, but going into next
(01:39):
week's episode with Hailey Dollar Hide. Lauren Ur is joining
me right now, and she is a trauma therapist. Lauren,
thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I'm really excited to know from you. What got you
into this line of work, specifically this specialty.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it was unintentional. Originally, when I was in graduate school,
I didn't really know who I wanted to work with.
I had some categories of I didn't want to work
with kids, and I was pretty sure I didn't want
to work with couples. But I really at the end
of the day, was like, whatever, I'll just try things out.
(02:22):
And I ended up getting an internship in a agency
that worked with both offenders, juvenile offenders as well as
victims of abuse and their families, and so I had
really wanted to work with kids. I definitely was like, ah,
that sounds like the scariest population to work with in
terms of abuse, and that sounds really heavy, but I
(02:44):
actually ended up really loving it. It was such a
unique learning experience, I think, especially working with kind of
the three layers of victims as well as offenders and
their family seen trauma from these different angles, and so
(03:05):
that was it was really fascinating to me, and kind
of from there, I just ended up landing in similar
situations in terms of where I was drawn to with
my work. So I worked at a women's domestic violent
shelter as well, and then a rape crisis center as
a therapist where we worked with people of all ages,
(03:27):
and then I became the director of that center, and
so at that point I was not only working with
clients that had experienced a lot of trauma, but I
was also very much in a role of community outreach.
So I was doing trainings for like police and medical staff,
(03:49):
and supervising interns and other therapists, and working with people
at that vicarious trauma level, so like people in the
field that we're dealing with maybe their own trauma, but
also maybe being traumatized by some of the populations they
were working with. And so it was very interesting to
(04:11):
me to see things from all these different angles, all
these different layers, and that center that I worked for,
we would see people in crisis situation, so we would
show up at the emergency room, let's say, if they're
getting like an evidence collection kit done, so like really
immediate trauma, all the way to people coming in for
(04:31):
therapy later in life when they hadn't dealt with something
that maybe happened in their childhood, so like very far
removed from the trauma. And so it just became these
put in became something I was really passionate about because
I feel like I learned so much just from doing
(04:52):
that work about trauma. Like I'd obviously learned about it
in grad school and read all the books, but really
just being in those environments and working with people, it
was just like the best education I think you could
possibly get in terms of what trauma is, how it looks,
all the different ways it can manifest and yeah, so
(05:16):
total crash course. And then I open my own practice
after that, so now that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Wow, Yeah, you really have seen it from just so
many different steps and angles, And that's so interesting to
me because trauma is one of those things that it's
not a one size fits all, even though it could
be a similar scenario. It's something that has so many
multifaceted layers to it. And that's why I'm so intrigued
(05:43):
and wanted to dedicate not only in like an entire
episode and few episodes to it. I have a guest
coming on after you in the following episode who's going
to share her story actually of some of these things
that you talked about that she had happened in her life.
And it's wild as we see people experience these things
and what it does not just in that moment, but
(06:05):
throughout the entire course of their life. So when you
go and you do this kind of work, especially frontlines,
and you have these initial moments and you're working with people,
what are those things that you're experiencing with people and
you're seeing them experience where you're like, other people should
know what this might look like in case it happens
(06:26):
to them.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, it's really interesting because if you would have asked
me that after doing graduate work and learning, reading books
or whatever, I probably would have been able to rattle
off some typical symptoms or things we might see. But
after doing this work for as long as I have.
I think one of the biggest things that stands out
(06:50):
to me is that it can look so many different ways.
I've been in emergency rooms with people getting evidence collection
kits done after sexual assaults, where we're like laughing and joking,
and that's like their way of coping, like that's their
trauma response. I've been with people that are their immediate
(07:12):
response is to take care of everybody else around them,
or just go into planning and doing mode where they're
being really productive and really advocating heavily or getting things done.
Of course, I've sat with people that are very emotional
or angry or dissociated, like checked out. It's incredible, I think,
(07:34):
just the human capacity to deal with things and those
automatic responses that we develop when it comes to trauma.
And I think maybe initially I would have thought that
those people that were taking care of others or seemed
really strong or laughing, that oh, those are like the
(07:54):
resilient people that aren't super affected by this. But that's
not necessarily the truth. I think sometimes those people that
have that trauma response of taking care of other people
or of putting the focus elsewhere, it's still living in them. Internally,
and sometimes that is harder to process through and heal
(08:18):
from when they're not just maybe doing what you would
typically expect somebody in a traumatic situation. And so I
guess that's a non answer.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
No, it's your question, but it's perfect actually because I
love to showcase that it doesn't look like you think
it would look always right.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And also to add to that, I think it's important
to keep in mind that when it comes to what
we would consider to be trauma, it's not really about
the event or events themselves or the circumstances as much
as it's about how that individual person, their nervous system,
(08:59):
their brain, and how they experience it. I often compare
it to like if two people were in a car
and gotten a car accident and vendor bender. Everyone's okay,
they get up. One of them might be shaken up
a little bit and just like we got through that
and really able to go on with their life. The
(09:19):
other person could be extremely anxious and panicky and not
want to drive and really having flashbacks in a hard
time or whatever it is, and they experience the exact
same event, but one of them might have experienced that
event as traumatic, whereas the other one maybe didn't. And
so keeping that in mind too, that we can't always
(09:42):
just look at a set of circumstances and assume how
somebody could feel and can you experience that?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, can you break that down even a little bit
further for me, because why is it that some people
This kind of goes more into maybe more of the
science side of things, but why is it that some
people can process trauma easier, quicker, or so we think,
while others really internalize it becomes a whole part of
their body, and it's this whole process. Is there things
(10:12):
that you've seen and experienced that makes sense for us
to describe why that happens?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, And I think it's it can be a little
bit complex and multifaceted, and there's so many factors at
play there, and so there's like the immediate things that
are going on. So for instance, in that example with
the car accident, maybe one of the people in the
(10:40):
car is having a hard time finding a job and
they don't have a lot of resources, or they are
going through some sort of upheaval or distress in their life,
or dealing with other mental health concerns, or like there's
all those immediate things that could be at play that
if they're baseline going into that experience, if they're already
(11:04):
dysregulated by a variety of other things going on, that
is going to impact them on a different level. But
it's also very historical. I think if they have dealt
with a lot of other traumatic things throughout their life,
if they've had access to processing those things and dealing
(11:27):
with them or not, what does the support system look
like going forward in the future. Are they going home
to a supportive and safe home where they have people
that they can talk to, do they have access to resources.
There's all of these factors like past, present, future that
(11:50):
kind of make up this unique circumstance around it. And
I'm such like an analogy person and I'm also like
a huge plant person. I have to buy plants all
the time, especially because it's becoming spring. But if you
think of your nervous system like a plant, like each
plant has very unique needs based on a genetic makeup
(12:11):
and growing conditions. You'll go to a nursery and this
one needs a lot of sun, and this one actually
does better with some shade, And this one needs to
be watered frequently, and that one, oh barely water it
at all. They all have this kind of makeup already
in their system of what they need. Humans are the
same way, but it's all of those things about how
(12:31):
consistent is the care that you're giving it. Are there
periods of drought our systems, we have our own individual
capacities for processing experiences. So some plants can become like
really hardy and maybe there's like lots of exposure to
wind and harsh conditions, while others are used to growing
in more like delicate or protected spaces. So some might
(12:55):
develop deeper roots from early stress while other create broader
leaves because they have abundance in their conditions and trauma
that can happen when we're flooded with either more than
we can absorb at once. So that would maybe look
like if you had a new little plant, had you
left it outside and there was a sudden downpour that
(13:18):
overwhelms the system rather than nourishes it, Like that could
be a really big I think a lot of times
when we think of trauma like a really big devastating
event happening, right, that's like that downpour. But it can
also occur when you're exposed to harsh conditions for too long.
So like maybe a plant could thrive in heat for
(13:44):
a day, but if it's in hot heat and it's
not designed for that for days or weeks, it's too
much for too long, and that could really hurt it,
or it could develop, trauma could develop if you're deprived
of what you need to thrive, going to too long
without water or light, like being neglected. It's not always
(14:04):
something happening around you or to you, but also it
can be like the absence of what you need for
too long, and so like even two plants of the
same species might need different amounts of care based on
their unique growing history. Too. There's not just like a
perfect formula around that. So it's not like about the
(14:26):
weather itself as much as it's about each individual plants
system and how it responds to that environment. It's really
the same way with how our nervous systems develop. We
have very unique requirements based on our genetic blueprint and
also all these other environmental factors around us.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I love an analogy. So the way that you just
painted that so perfectly with plants and allows people to
understand it just in this deeper way beautiful.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The reason my analogies don't hit, But I feel like
that one I think is pretty all encompassing of what
trauma is like.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
No, it definitely is. And the reason I even asked
that question is because I think it's really easy for
us to get caught up in this belief that I
didn't experience it that way, so why are they experiencing
it that way? We like to really just put people
in our own boxes instead of understanding that we are
(15:25):
individual and we have unique experiences, and so having you
share that in that way hopefully can really help people
just be a little bit more understanding of those experiences
and that it's not they're not going to react the
same way you choose to react.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's going to be different exactly. Yeah, And when you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
This too, it had me thinking of a lot of
what we see on social media is people talking about
little tea's and big teas. Do you feel like that's
really the case or is it just it's.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Just trauma or is that like little.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Tea Big Tea actually helpful and truthful in our experience
in our learning.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, I think there's a place for it. I used
to teach that and train that because that was the standard.
But I guess for me personally, I don't love the
language of little and big because I think it can suggest,
oh that one's not as serious as this other thing.
(16:27):
I think what it's really trying to say by using
little and big is more how I was describing with
the plants, like a sudden downpour, like all at once,
too much that is big, that would be an overwhelm
in a short period of time, whereas little ty, I
(16:48):
think is more the like could be like the neglect
or the just not having enough for too long. And
again there's so many. I think it goes so much
deeper than that, and so I shy away personally from
using that language just because I think it can create
some misconception and even some shame around maybe if people
(17:12):
are dealing with a lot of trauma responses, but on paper,
the things that they've experienced are quote little that they
may think that they there's something wrong with them, or
they're making too much of something, or other people don't
understand or invalidating their own experiences. It's just so personal
(17:33):
an individual to how somebody experiences something, and for there
to be any sort of outward perception of that is
basically impossible because we as an outsider, like I can't
know all of the environmental, genetic, circumstantial all of these things.
(17:55):
There's no way for me to know that unless that
person shares that with me.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
It totally came to my mind because I remember one time,
I think I was sitting in the therapy session and
I referred to something as like, oh, it's just like
a little tea, And I even felt weird saying it,
like I felt myself invalidating what I experienced. And I
don't know if it was because people made me feel
that way or if I just personally felt that way
because I had bigger traumas, But I remember just even
(18:24):
saying it, I'm like, you know what, No, it's not
Actually that was really traumatic, and why am I downplaying
that experience? So I'm glad that you shared that because
it's helpful. Just talking about everything in the mental health
space is helpful. We're communicating finally about something that's really important.
But using harmful language can also make it really difficult
(18:46):
on us to truly heal.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right, Yeah, And I think there's also an important thing
to keep in mind about how important like what happens
next is and what I mean by that is you
know there's a traumatic event itself. Let's just say abuse.
If a kid experiences abuse, and then that's a traumatic event.
(19:12):
But then they tell a parent, hey, this thing happened
to me, and if the parent's reaction is like they
don't believe them, or they're downplaying it, or they are
blaming them, or even if the parent's reaction is devastated
and very emotional, and then the parent can't function and
(19:35):
the parent like there's all of these kind of like
after effects. I think too that can create sometimes an
even bigger wound and there can be even more trauma
associated with that. Or maybe even being in an environment
where they feel like they can't share what happened to
them because they don't feel like either they have safe
(19:58):
adults or they don't think that the adults in their
life are able to handle that. Maybe they're trying to
protect that adult. There's so many things there too that
I think is also really important to consider when we're
talking about what trauma is and how we experience it.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I was just thinking about that when you were mentioning
in it, because so many of these very emotional topics
and things that are referred to as trauma do often
come around with this part of I don't believe your
experience or it's not.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
What you think it was, or invalidating.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
That, and I do believe that is trauma within itself.
To not have people understand or believe.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You, right, Yeah, And sometimes I mean the rupture that
can cause an attachment or even feeling safe enough to
heal through that, or the what happens next can be huge.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So yeah, when, yeah, when something happens, this piece of
trauma that happens in your life and it's going to
play out, maybe it's days, months, years, how do you
know that you're still living within that trauma versus being
healed from it?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah? Yeah, I know these are the complex I think
there's so many things that we experience that I think
a lot of times we don't even realize have anything
to do with trauma. Because a lot of times I'll
see people in therapy and maybe let's say they're dealing
(21:41):
with anxiety. That's something that comes up for them a lot,
maybe social anxiety, let's say, And maybe they've done therapy,
maybe they've done self help or read the books or
listen to all the podcasts or whatever, but they maybe
they get to a point where they understand logically why
they have social anxiety. Maybe they're able to say, okay,
(22:04):
that makes sense because I had some really close friends
and then we got in a big fight and then
I felt really abandoned or whatever. Like I can point
to things in my life that it makes sense that
when I'm in social situations now that I would be anxious.
That's great, But just having that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean
(22:26):
that all of a sudden the anxiety is gone, right,
And so I think sometimes people can feel really stuck
in that of wait, I've done all this work, I
can put logic behind it. It makes sense. But when
I get invited to a social event, my body is
tense and I'm breathing differently, and I am feeling like
I don't want to be there, and I'm second guessing
(22:48):
everything I say. They're still experiencing it, and so it's
not enough to just know the why around it, because
the parts of your brain that are activated when you're
experiencing something traumatic is not the logical part of your brain,
(23:08):
that prefrontal cortex that can give explanation and put sense
to it when you're actually experiencing those things. It is
like that deeper, more instinctual part of your brain, the
like fight flight freeze, the knee jerk emotion, the knee
jerk reaction, how your body braces in those moments, and
(23:31):
really your logical part of your brain goes offline when
that's happening. Just like I talk a lot about. To
illustrate this, if you've ever been driving in the car
and all of a sudden, the car in front of
you slams on their brake, and so you slam on
your brake and you like put the like phantom arm
out to just.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Stop, what we call the mom arm, like that right, and.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
There's like nothing there, Like it's just an empty seat.
But it's just that like instinctual reaction that we do.
And that's such a small little example, but it's a
really good illustration of the fact that logically there's nothing there,
Like it doesn't make sense, you're not protecting the invisible enough,
But it is just what your body does. It's just
(24:17):
that initial bracing and I think a lot of trauma
that we experience however that looks there is just those
instinctual reactions. That's how we're wired as humans who be
and so being able to actually heal from that and
go beyond that stuffness of I can make sense of it,
(24:39):
but I'm still having these reactions. A lot of that
really has to do with processing from the parts of
your brain that we're actually online during the trauma, and
so there's all sorts of therapy techniques and modalities that
get into that that kind of fall under this matic category.
(25:01):
But it's about being in tune with your body and
what's going on when you think about that, and what
are you feeling, and what are the sensations. And therapies
like EMDR and brain spotting and polyvagel therapy, there's a
ton that kind of fall in that category, but really
being able to bring your body into the therapy work
(25:24):
is what can really facilitate healing in the sense of
where those automatic reactions aren't coming up as strongly.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And I did see on your profile that you do
have work in EMDR, brain spotting, IFS somatic. Can you
just little kind of exerts of what each of these
things are because having resources and sometimes people don't even
know these things exist.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, And I think it can be very confusing looking
for a therapist because there's all these acronyms and all
these specialties, and I think people are like, oh, that
person there profile says their trauma informed, but that could
mean that they took a trauma class in college twenty
years ago. I think it is good to have some
level of understanding of maybe like what some of these
(26:11):
things are. Emdr and brain spotting are two techniques that
follow the same neuroscience, two different ways to go about it,
and it basically utilizes the neurobiology of how our nervous
system is connected to our brain and how we process
things and bilateral movements or eye position, because our eyes,
(26:38):
how they where they look, how they look, all of
that stuff is really how our brain is processing through
things and activating all those other parts of our brain
the left and the right hemisphere. And so it's like
these specific techniques that are designed to I guess, wake
up or activate those deeper parts of your brain while
(27:00):
you're doing the processing in a slow way, in a
controlled way. That's another thing. Like we say fast as
slow and slow as fast. You really can't rush through it.
I always say it's hard to explain it because it
sounds really weird. It'd be like me trying to explain
to somebody like how to ride a bike if they've
(27:21):
never even seen a bike. I really think there is
part of it. You almost have to do it because
you're activating the subcortical systems of your brain. Subcortical meaning
the parts that are without word and without logic, and
so to explain it in logical ways with words, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
But it's also cool because you're tapping into a part
of your brain that to us feels like it's not
active even though it is, but because it's not transferring
language in the way that we understand, this is a
way to access a piece of view. It's kind of
like plugging yourself into an outlet and being like the
whole thing actually finally turns on and it is how
I'm like seeing it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, basically, yeah, because if you think about it, how
often you're just going about your life and you know
you're walking, but you're not like going, okay, lift this
leg up, put this leg down, now this one. Like
it's just so automatic where we're not actually in our body,
we're not thinking about it. You could be off in
(28:19):
your mind thinking about something completely random or fully going
through a task physically, and so it's so natural for
humans to not actually fully be in their body when
they are just going about day to day life. But
especially I think sometimes when we're recalling things like memories
(28:41):
or emotional pieces of trauma, it's almost like we naturally
go away from our body and just go up to
our brain of like telling the story, and that feels
almost protective in a way, and it's not conscious, but
that is what we do. And so being able to
(29:03):
create that like slow it down and create that safety,
wake up the whole body and the whole presence while
being able to process through stuff, that's what's going to
create the change.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Is this also when you can access something because I
know and like the trauma that I've experienced, there'll be
moments where before I had really worked through a lot
of stuff where I really packed it down and pushed
it away. Does EMDR and brain spotting help you access
the stuff that you pushed out of your mind in
a way?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah? Sometimes, Okay, sometimes not. I think sometimes people are
afraid to do these types of therapies because they're fearful
about what if I recall memories or what if I've
blocked something out that comes up whatever. Sometimes that may happen. However,
our brains are incredible that when our brains do block
(29:59):
out memories or we don't have access to that, there's
a reason for that. Our brains are always trying to
protect us, and your brain is not going to recall
those things if it doesn't feel safe enough to do so.
So sometimes that is a slow process, and you can
trust easy in the fact that if memories are coming up,
(30:21):
it is because you are at a regulated enough place
to be able to handle those things. Also, there are
sometimes things like pre verbal memories or medical trauma where
maybe you're under anesthesia or something where you literally aren't
going to have active memory and you can't recall that,
(30:43):
but your body was still experiencing whatever that is. And
so sometimes there is truly no memory associated with trauma
that we've experienced, and it's not necessarily the goal. You
don't need to have the memory in order to heal
from it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Wow, it's so cool that we have access to these
things and to be able to do this to help ourselves.
I don't want to just slide past that because the
fact that we have technology and things like this in
place to start to heal ourselves is such a cool
place to be in in life. So that's just awesome
to me. As I'm sitting here thinking about this.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's incredible. I like geek out over what I do
every day and just the stuff that I like. The
healing I see is just incredible. I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So you're doing incredible work and making some very big
life changes for people on that flip side of trauma.
What happens if we don't heal our trauma? What happens
if we just go through our life and we just
keep shoving it down, pushing it away, not ever facing it.
It just stays down, never comes back out. Yeah, what
(31:53):
does that look like in somebody? Because I do think
a lot of people experience this, like with people in
their lives where they're like, you haven't worked through anything,
and I can feel this coming out at me. So
what can that look like for someone? Because I think
it helps us understand a little bit more just maybe
what people are going through.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Like those things. It doesn't just dissipate. I'll give you
another analogy because I just can't help it how my
brain works.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But I love analogies, so you can can't.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, it's if you had a room in your house
that it was like your junk room and everything. I'll
deal with that later. Went into that room, and then
you shut the door, like you could shut the door
and pretend it's not there. It's not going to just
go away, and eventually, like there is going to be
other consequences to that. In that sense, maybe it's like
(32:45):
eventually you need to sell your house, and now it's
this huge thing. Like sometimes there's something that happens where
it's like you can't avoid it because something so big happens.
I feel like I saw this a lot, like in
COVID times that people were able to manage or push
down whatever it was, but when this global thing was
(33:07):
happening for some people, that was the straw that broke
the camel's back. There is some unrelated thing and sometimes
even like a small thing that is just going to
tip that scale and then all of a sudden you
start feeling really overwhelming symptoms. I do think that sometimes
people can successfully shove it down for a period of time,
(33:33):
but it's like holding a beach ball underwater, like you can.
You really have to struggle to keep that in, and
eventually it might be too much to hold that down
whatever that looks like. And so a lot of times
it does even come out in little reactions, little moods,
or how we are doing in relationships with other people
(33:59):
are tended sees to maybe shut people out or like
all sorts of things. A lot of times it comes
out like we cope with things through things like addictions
or all these other things that might not be a
huge problem, and I don't like to pathologize even that stuff.
It might be an unpopular thing, but even addiction, right
(34:19):
if somebody leaned on an addiction or a substance to
numb themselves, Let's say after traumatic things happened because they
just maybe didn't have the capacity or the resources, or
they just straight up weren't ready to touch it, and
they found something that got them through that time to
(34:42):
where they could manage day to day hopefully to a
point where you know, usually that thing that helped them
manage becomes its own problem and then now they're dealing
with the consequences of that. I'm like, I'm so happy
that they found something to get them by when they
needed to. Also there's consequences to that, and sometimes then
(35:06):
it's a bigger problem. But we do need those things,
even if they're unhealthy, even if they aren't really serving
us long term. It's not always realistic to oh I
experienced a trauma, like going to go start journaling every
day and get into a yoga practice. That's not always possible.
So yeah, I think sometimes we do what we need
(35:27):
to do to get by, but sometimes those things we
do to get by become their own beast. And sometimes
people go to therapy I think because they think the
problem is the addiction or the relationship problems or whatever
it is, and it is the problem, but like, where
did that problem come from? Almost always it's going to
(35:49):
connect somewhere to some sort of trauma that they've experienced
at some point in their life. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
We talk a lot about root causes on this podcast,
and man if that ain't the cure all for just
about everything. Is like you got to get to the
root of something that's happening instead of just fixing something
with a band aid, right, mental, physical health, all the things.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, so something that's also very much involved with trauma.
I got a question about this from a few different
people actually, which makes me think a lot of people
are handling this in this way, but you end up
in a survival mode or a fight or flight, and
you just ruminate in this cycle of that for however long,
(36:36):
and it's really.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Hard to break yourself out of that.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
However that looks like for someone who's trying to get
out of survival mode or a fight or flight or
that freeze that you mentioned too, what are some first
steps they can take to break that ruminating cycle that.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Part of them that is, let's say we'll go with
fight being reactive or touchy or it has big emotions,
that part of them. It's not connected to the fact
that there's not that same level of threat in the moment.
It's like logically they might know this is different than
the trauma I experienced, but it's an automatic reaction that's
(37:17):
coming up because their system is just noticing things in
their environment, triggers whatever it may be, just regulation and
like ringing the alarm bell, and so those reactions come
up automatically, and so part of it is having that understanding,
(37:39):
so you're not adding fuel to the fire by blaming
yourself or being hard on yourself for that of this
is automatic. This is just it's happening. Detaching that extra
layer of shame and blame that you have, but also
trying to understand what purpose that might be. Certain, because
(38:02):
if your system thinks that it's going to be in danger,
your system is going to react. It just is and
that's wonderful because you want your system to react if
it feels like there's danger. But again, I think it
really goes back to being able to not just put
the logic behind it, but like connecting those parts of
the brain and helping bring your body into that processing
(38:27):
so that you can logically understand it, but you're really
what needs to happen is your cells, your nervous system,
your body needs to understand like this is different and
I'm safe now, and there's I think there's like some
self talk and stuff that can go along with that
as well, but it is a process and like allowing
(38:49):
yourself the time that it needs to get through that
period of time.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, for sure, I appreciate you answering that for some people,
because I do think actually coming out of COVID, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
That caused a lot for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
But more than that, we're just in some crazy times
right now and people are going through it. You dubbed
a new word in healing called trauma lessence.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Am I saying that correctly. Yeah, can you break.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That down for me and what it looks like, because
when I watched this content, I was like, Oh, this
is so cool and super important.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
How like when you become a parent, when you become
a mother, how it can feel almost like adolescence in
that you're like trying to figure out like who am I?
Where do I fit? Like what is my That kind
of like awkward new version of yourself, trying to figure
out the bridge between who you were and who you
(39:42):
now are. And I noticed that in trauma healing, I
was seeing a lot of that too, of this kind
of what felt like almost like adolescent period in the
healing process of like huh, now that I see this
thing differently, or now that I don't have those certain
(40:03):
reactions coming up as big anymore, or now that I'm
looking at this thing in a new light, who am
I without the identity of the trauma and the stuff
around me? And how it's a period of time that
can feel really vulnerable and really scary, but it's also
like really good and beautiful, and so I get excited
(40:25):
and when therapy, when people are like coming to me
and being like, man, like I don't know why I
all of a sudden, I don't know what to do
with myself. Who am I? Or ugh? I always used
to just you know, nod and smile in these certain situations,
and now I find myself like speaking up and that's scary,
(40:48):
and like what does that mean? Like all of these
things that almost freak them out about themselves, and I'm like, yay,
Like healing is happening. It's exciting, and I feel like
that's just people becoming who they are actually are without
all the junk that forced them to adapt in all
these different ways. It's like almost like refinding themselves.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah. I loved that word, and I love that so
thanks for coming up with it. And I do like
to end our episodes always with whether it's a piece
of advice, whether it's something that we didn't touch on
that you feel is so important. I leave it open
ended up to you that you like to leave us
on this place. So Flora is yours. Let me know
if there's anything that comes to mind for you.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Oh gosh, so much. I'm biased, obviously, but like I
think everybody can benefit from therapy, whether they feel like
they have quote little P trauma or big T trauma
or anything at all, Like being a human is hard,
and there's always going to be stuff. I know that
(41:53):
there can obviously be barriers for people finding a good therapist,
fit or feeling like they can and access those things.
At the end of the day, the best thing you
can do for yourself and all the people around you
is to get to know yourself and figure out who
you are without all of that other stuff getting in
(42:16):
the way. And you know, I always say trauma can
be passed down through generations, so can healing. It's never
too late. It's not like, oh, that happened forever ago.
It's truly never too late. I just really encourage anybody
that if they have any inkling of I should do that. Eventually.
Listen to that, do that. It's one of the best
(42:37):
things you can do for yourself.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yes, there's a perfect way to end one.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
We did it.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So thank you so much Lauren for being here, for
sharing your expertise and just helping change the world for
some people because it's important.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm always happy to
talk about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
If you want to follow Lauren on socials, her instagram
is your Trauma Therapist Underscore I'll put it in the
description too. Next week, my friend Hailey dollar Hie joins
me to share some of the trauma she's experienced and
how it's impacted her throughout her life. Her story is
one of a lot of resilience and so much strength,
so don't miss it. You can follow the podcast Instagram,
(43:15):
take this personally, and don't forget to hit subscribe and
rate five stars because we do have some trollers hanging
out in the reviews. As always, I'm really happy you're here,
thanks for listening, and you guys are awesome. We'll talk
next week.
Host
Morgan Huelsman
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