November 5, 2025 • 12 mins
On the Wednesday November 5, 2025 edition of The Armstrong & Getty One More Thing Podcast...
- Get that beast out of that car...
- Is intelligence measured correctly?
Stupid Should Hurt: https://www.armstrongandgetty.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Defining intelligence. It's one more thing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm strong and one car. I don't they guy cad.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Before we get to the intelligence thing or whatever the
hell I'm talking about. We have this, Michael, can you
explain what we're about to hear?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, in Colorado, we have a driver who went out
to his car and there was a bear inside, and
that bear had gotten in and got trapped, and so
he calls the sheriff and the two of them try
and get this bear out of his car.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I find myself wondering how the bear got trapped exactly
did it shut the door behind itself.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I find myself wondering what I would do if I
walked out and there were a bear sitting in my
car with the doors closed. I might stand there for
a while and think, Hmmm, who do you call for
this problem? He called the sheriff. I'm not sure that's
the animal controller.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, I think I would lawyer. But if you're out
in the country. Yeah, let's hear how the manufacturer exactly,
the Ford dealer. Very large bear in the front seat.
Oh yeah, he looks pissed.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So we can type some type some para cord to
the door, and then we can get back and we
can pull it open. Yogi, calm down, I hit it
on auto car.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
You're fine that you can buff that out. You guys
are totally fine.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I think what's more impressive is that he opened it
and then pursued it to close it behind. Yeah, Yogi
has been released from the vehicle. I get it. The
idea is how we need to figure out a way
to open the doors but not be like so close
it if it comes out mad, Yeah, it tears our
faces off.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, the video is way longer than that, but yeah,
they come up with this plan and tie a couple
of things together and stand back and pull the handle open.
And couldn't do that with your mod Darren Tesla, could you? Huh? No?
The bear just stay in there. We drive away with
your car. That was charming, So as a were in
(02:00):
the car where the driver was, somebody's eating berries on
your feet.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
That's an example perhaps of what I'm about to talk
about with intelligence here is those police officers came across
the situation they've never had before and figured out a
way to handle it. I have always, not always as
an adult, been interested in what is smart mean, what
does intelligent even mean? And now that I'm a parent,
(02:26):
I really wonder about it because I blame academics. Academics
have mostly defined it, defined it clearly, Hello, not a
step in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Failed.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Academics have defined intelligence in a way that suits them.
It's the kind of intelligence they have. Oh, what a shock.
You came up with a way of measuring intelligence that
puts you at the top of the heap in that
grand And that is actually what has happened. And I
don't think we've we do at all. We don't have
(03:01):
the right words, We don't have the right concept. Even
shouldn't intelligence be whatever mental ability allows you to succeed
in the world best. I don't care about math or science,
or music, or maybe emotional intelligence, although I think that
is important to one. It doesn't matter whichever combination allows
(03:25):
you to succeed as a human being. That's what should
be called smart. Yeah, I know a couple of people
that are book smart that are just completely stupid when
it comes to everything. That's what I'm saying. We have
our labels. Our labels are so insufficient for what I
just defined, which should be the only way to define smart.
You're able to make your way in the world. We
(03:47):
all know plenty of people that are what we usually
define as smart who function horribly in the world, whether
whether it's with their own finances or relationships, or can't
hold the job or whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It is, right, and it pains me to admit this
is somebody is fairly verbal, but a verbal intelligence is
overrated being glib, being an effective communicator, although it is
a great skill, it is. I know people who are
fairly quiet, maybe a little bit shy, but they are
(04:23):
spectacularly effective at planning, running, growing a business.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
For instance, I'm working towards something with a guy who's
got a book out about this, but it just it's
you know, it scratched me where I itch because I've
wondered about this for a long time. And like I said,
now that I've got kids, I'm I'm only worried about
what kind of skills or way of looking at the
world they need to go out there and succeed. I
don't care about a score on any particular kind of
(04:51):
test or either. The test is living life and surviving
and being happy. That's the test.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
And really it's good to bottom line it like that,
because getting your kid into the perfect kindergarten there in
Manhattan or whatever. And then the perfect school seventy five
thousand dollars a year to get an Ivy League education
and a degree. Blah blah blah. It all boils down
to can they be successful at life? However you want
to define that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So I picked this up from Econ Talks Russ Roberts.
That's one of the best podcasts it's ever existed. He
is one of the first people to have a podcast
in two thousand and six, so it caught on Super
Smart Guy. It's almost never about economics. He went through
all the economics stuff like twenty years ago. It's called
Econ Talk still because that is the name of the
popular show, but he talks about everything, historians, musicians, whatever
(05:39):
the hell. And he had this author on yesterday, a
guy named Angus Fletcher who says we've misdefined intelligence, which
I've long believed, equating it with data driven reasoning in
place of what he calls primal intelligence, which is as
good a phrase as any for just what's going to
allow you to survive world the uniquely human ability to
(06:02):
think and plan in situations with incomplete information. That's about
as good a definition of what intelligence ought to be
is anything I can come up with the ability to
think and plan in situations with incomplete information, And people
who can do that well make it through life okay,
and people who can't don't.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Wow. Let's contrast that with a more conventional description of intelligence,
which might well be the ability to spout, which is
a prejudicial word. Accumulated knowledge, right, which is not a
terrible standard. I think more knowledge is good generally.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
But just another tool or something.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I love that definition.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, it's pretty good. And this guy has got a
bunch of degrees in a bunch of different things. But
he worked in Hollywood for quite a while. We're with
screenplays and stuff like that, how they hold together and
how it fits in with the human brain and understanding things,
which was really interesting. Drawing on years of work in
Hollywood and working with elite military operators, he showed how
(07:13):
narratives aren't just entertainment, they're the foundation of human intelligence.
He reveals why military special operations personnel need to create
new plans on the fly, and how a lot of
great literature movies and that sort of stuff, unexpected things
happen and people have to deal with them, and we
learn from those things about dealing with unexpected situations and
(07:34):
what to do in that circumstance. I just thought that
was a really fascinating way to look at a definition
of intelligence. He believes. Now, of course I like this
because I do this, so I have confirmation and bias
on this. Why reading challenging literature literally rewires your brain
(07:54):
for greater adaptability, He says, I read a lot of
complicated literature. I always have enjoy it. Has that improved
my life and in that manner? I don't know, but
he said he believes he has proof of that, and
also working with lots of military people whose whole thing
is all of a sudden, your plan ran up against reality.
(08:16):
Your plan no longer works. Now you've got to come
up with something new with what little information you have
to go forward. That's all of life. That's that's every
bit of life, the new job you started, the raising kids,
every day, it's raising kids, your marriage, you're just everything.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah. Wow, that's stuff provoking.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
It really is. I wonder how much you can get
better at it, though, he suggests in his book and
I listened to the podcast, that we can improve that skill. Normally,
the insufficient terms we use for intelligence is kind of
like baked in. You either are or aren't. I don't
know how much you could you can get. You can
get more knowledge, can't really change the wattage of your
(08:58):
brain power, but he's seems to believe that you could.
You can become much better at adapting to new storylines,
new narratives.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, I've often thrown around twenty percent just because I
don't know it seems right. You're an introvert. You can
probably get about twenty percent more extroverted if you work
at it and talk to yourself about why that's worth
it and how you're glad you went to the gathering
blah blah blah. But you're never going to becomm an extrovert.
(09:28):
And if you are, you know, bad at math, you
can bust your butt and get at least functional, but
you're never gonna, you know, start lecturing people on string
theory or whatever. Oh it's so different, you see my point.
I mean, if you have no musical talent. I've known
people who I remember this in grade school. It struck
(09:49):
me at the time, as we would do little melodies
on the xylophones and stuff. I had a great music
teacher as an elementary school kid. But there are some
kids who just had nothing.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That's shoe on the xylophone right there, and they.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Couldn't carry a tune. From childhood through adulthood. You might
be able to get twenty percent better, but you are
never going to sing at the met or even like
you know, busk on a street corner. You're just not.
So I can see that sort of problem solving ability
(10:22):
getting somewhat better, but I think that's probably one of
those distinct kinds of intelligence that either have it or
you don't. Of course, if you've got Boco Haram shooting
at you, and you can tell me if you do this,
you'll get twenty percent better at, you know, fixing problems,
overcoming obstacles, and staying alive. I'm really really interested in
(10:44):
that twenty percent. So I'm intrigued whether you can develop
it a lot or a little. It's worth developing.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Why do you think it's so well? I may have
answered the question the beginning academics measure it in such
a way that prizes what they're good at. That might
be a lot of it, But I understand why we
don't have a more clear cut way of kind of
ascertaining where people are on the gonna succeed at life
scale as opposed to you're gonna succeed in college. Whoopedi shit?
(11:16):
I mean you know whatever?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah right. I think part of it is that
it's much easier to measure, and it's not useless. I
mean you you throw around phrases like whoop de shit
and I quote which is a little dismissive.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's from my dad.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That was his phrase for things love. Yeah, because it's
not useless. But how how do you measure what you're
talking about? Like ability to thrive in life? Especially, here's
where it gets crazy complicated. You have that ability in spades,
(11:54):
and you decide to dedicate your life to educating poor kids.
So who's in charge of counting the number of little
kids whose lives you've changed? I mean, accumulating wealth obviously
comes to mind, but there are plenty of people who
decide that's not what I'm about, or having accumulated to
(12:16):
get rid of it all or most of it, So
I don't Maybe it's so difficult to measure far smarter
I could answer your question, but clearly I'm sorry I've failed.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Hum Well, I guess that's it.
Defining intelligence. It's one more thing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm strong and one car. I don't they guy cad.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Before we get to the intelligence thing or whatever the
hell I'm talking about. We have this, Michael, can you
explain what we're about to hear?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, in Colorado, we have a driver who went out
to his car and there was a bear inside, and
that bear had gotten in and got trapped, and so
he calls the sheriff and the two of them try
and get this bear out of his car.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I find myself wondering how the bear got trapped exactly
did it shut the door behind itself.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I find myself wondering what I would do if I
walked out and there were a bear sitting in my
car with the doors closed. I might stand there for
a while and think, Hmmm, who do you call for
this problem? He called the sheriff. I'm not sure that's
the animal controller.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, I think I would lawyer. But if you're out
in the country. Yeah, let's hear how the manufacturer exactly,
the Ford dealer. Very large bear in the front seat.
Oh yeah, he looks pissed.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So we can type some type some para cord to
the door, and then we can get back and we
can pull it open. Yogi, calm down, I hit it
on auto car.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
You're fine that you can buff that out. You guys
are totally fine.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I think what's more impressive is that he opened it
and then pursued it to close it behind. Yeah, Yogi
has been released from the vehicle. I get it. The
idea is how we need to figure out a way
to open the doors but not be like so close
it if it comes out mad, Yeah, it tears our
faces off.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, the video is way longer than that, but yeah,
they come up with this plan and tie a couple
of things together and stand back and pull the handle open.
And couldn't do that with your mod Darren Tesla, could you? Huh? No?
The bear just stay in there. We drive away with
your car. That was charming, So as a were in
(02:00):
the car where the driver was, somebody's eating berries on
your feet.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
That's an example perhaps of what I'm about to talk
about with intelligence here is those police officers came across
the situation they've never had before and figured out a
way to handle it. I have always, not always as
an adult, been interested in what is smart mean, what
does intelligent even mean? And now that I'm a parent,
(02:26):
I really wonder about it because I blame academics. Academics
have mostly defined it, defined it clearly, Hello, not a
step in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Failed.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Academics have defined intelligence in a way that suits them.
It's the kind of intelligence they have. Oh, what a shock.
You came up with a way of measuring intelligence that
puts you at the top of the heap in that
grand And that is actually what has happened. And I
don't think we've we do at all. We don't have
(03:01):
the right words, We don't have the right concept. Even
shouldn't intelligence be whatever mental ability allows you to succeed
in the world best. I don't care about math or science,
or music, or maybe emotional intelligence, although I think that
is important to one. It doesn't matter whichever combination allows
(03:25):
you to succeed as a human being. That's what should
be called smart. Yeah, I know a couple of people
that are book smart that are just completely stupid when
it comes to everything. That's what I'm saying. We have
our labels. Our labels are so insufficient for what I
just defined, which should be the only way to define smart.
You're able to make your way in the world. We
(03:47):
all know plenty of people that are what we usually
define as smart who function horribly in the world, whether
whether it's with their own finances or relationships, or can't
hold the job or whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It is, right, and it pains me to admit this
is somebody is fairly verbal, but a verbal intelligence is
overrated being glib, being an effective communicator, although it is
a great skill, it is. I know people who are
fairly quiet, maybe a little bit shy, but they are
(04:23):
spectacularly effective at planning, running, growing a business.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
For instance, I'm working towards something with a guy who's
got a book out about this, but it just it's
you know, it scratched me where I itch because I've
wondered about this for a long time. And like I said,
now that I've got kids, I'm I'm only worried about
what kind of skills or way of looking at the
world they need to go out there and succeed. I
don't care about a score on any particular kind of
(04:51):
test or either. The test is living life and surviving
and being happy. That's the test.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
And really it's good to bottom line it like that,
because getting your kid into the perfect kindergarten there in
Manhattan or whatever. And then the perfect school seventy five
thousand dollars a year to get an Ivy League education
and a degree. Blah blah blah. It all boils down
to can they be successful at life? However you want
to define that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So I picked this up from Econ Talks Russ Roberts.
That's one of the best podcasts it's ever existed. He
is one of the first people to have a podcast
in two thousand and six, so it caught on Super
Smart Guy. It's almost never about economics. He went through
all the economics stuff like twenty years ago. It's called
Econ Talk still because that is the name of the
popular show, but he talks about everything, historians, musicians, whatever
(05:39):
the hell. And he had this author on yesterday, a
guy named Angus Fletcher who says we've misdefined intelligence, which
I've long believed, equating it with data driven reasoning in
place of what he calls primal intelligence, which is as
good a phrase as any for just what's going to
allow you to survive world the uniquely human ability to
(06:02):
think and plan in situations with incomplete information. That's about
as good a definition of what intelligence ought to be
is anything I can come up with the ability to
think and plan in situations with incomplete information, And people
who can do that well make it through life okay,
and people who can't don't.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Wow. Let's contrast that with a more conventional description of intelligence,
which might well be the ability to spout, which is
a prejudicial word. Accumulated knowledge, right, which is not a
terrible standard. I think more knowledge is good generally.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
But just another tool or something.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I love that definition.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, it's pretty good. And this guy has got a
bunch of degrees in a bunch of different things. But
he worked in Hollywood for quite a while. We're with
screenplays and stuff like that, how they hold together and
how it fits in with the human brain and understanding things,
which was really interesting. Drawing on years of work in
Hollywood and working with elite military operators, he showed how
(07:13):
narratives aren't just entertainment, they're the foundation of human intelligence.
He reveals why military special operations personnel need to create
new plans on the fly, and how a lot of
great literature movies and that sort of stuff, unexpected things
happen and people have to deal with them, and we
learn from those things about dealing with unexpected situations and
(07:34):
what to do in that circumstance. I just thought that
was a really fascinating way to look at a definition
of intelligence. He believes. Now, of course I like this
because I do this, so I have confirmation and bias
on this. Why reading challenging literature literally rewires your brain
(07:54):
for greater adaptability, He says, I read a lot of
complicated literature. I always have enjoy it. Has that improved
my life and in that manner? I don't know, but
he said he believes he has proof of that, and
also working with lots of military people whose whole thing
is all of a sudden, your plan ran up against reality.
(08:16):
Your plan no longer works. Now you've got to come
up with something new with what little information you have
to go forward. That's all of life. That's that's every
bit of life, the new job you started, the raising kids,
every day, it's raising kids, your marriage, you're just everything.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah. Wow, that's stuff provoking.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
It really is. I wonder how much you can get
better at it, though, he suggests in his book and
I listened to the podcast, that we can improve that skill. Normally,
the insufficient terms we use for intelligence is kind of
like baked in. You either are or aren't. I don't
know how much you could you can get. You can
get more knowledge, can't really change the wattage of your
(08:58):
brain power, but he's seems to believe that you could.
You can become much better at adapting to new storylines,
new narratives.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, I've often thrown around twenty percent just because I
don't know it seems right. You're an introvert. You can
probably get about twenty percent more extroverted if you work
at it and talk to yourself about why that's worth
it and how you're glad you went to the gathering
blah blah blah. But you're never going to becomm an extrovert.
(09:28):
And if you are, you know, bad at math, you
can bust your butt and get at least functional, but
you're never gonna, you know, start lecturing people on string
theory or whatever. Oh it's so different, you see my point.
I mean, if you have no musical talent. I've known
people who I remember this in grade school. It struck
(09:49):
me at the time, as we would do little melodies
on the xylophones and stuff. I had a great music
teacher as an elementary school kid. But there are some
kids who just had nothing.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That's shoe on the xylophone right there, and they.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Couldn't carry a tune. From childhood through adulthood. You might
be able to get twenty percent better, but you are
never going to sing at the met or even like
you know, busk on a street corner. You're just not.
So I can see that sort of problem solving ability
(10:22):
getting somewhat better, but I think that's probably one of
those distinct kinds of intelligence that either have it or
you don't. Of course, if you've got Boco Haram shooting
at you, and you can tell me if you do this,
you'll get twenty percent better at, you know, fixing problems,
overcoming obstacles, and staying alive. I'm really really interested in
(10:44):
that twenty percent. So I'm intrigued whether you can develop
it a lot or a little. It's worth developing.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Why do you think it's so well? I may have
answered the question the beginning academics measure it in such
a way that prizes what they're good at. That might
be a lot of it, But I understand why we
don't have a more clear cut way of kind of
ascertaining where people are on the gonna succeed at life
scale as opposed to you're gonna succeed in college. Whoopedi shit?
(11:16):
I mean you know whatever?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah right. I think part of it is that
it's much easier to measure, and it's not useless. I
mean you you throw around phrases like whoop de shit
and I quote which is a little dismissive.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's from my dad.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That was his phrase for things love. Yeah, because it's
not useless. But how how do you measure what you're
talking about? Like ability to thrive in life? Especially, here's
where it gets crazy complicated. You have that ability in spades,
(11:54):
and you decide to dedicate your life to educating poor kids.
So who's in charge of counting the number of little
kids whose lives you've changed? I mean, accumulating wealth obviously
comes to mind, but there are plenty of people who
decide that's not what I'm about, or having accumulated to
(12:16):
get rid of it all or most of it, So
I don't Maybe it's so difficult to measure far smarter
I could answer your question, but clearly I'm sorry I've failed.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Hum Well, I guess that's it.
Hosts And Creators
Joe Getty
Jack Armstrong
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.