November 20, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 3 of A&G features...
- The Epstein Files
- Screaming because of a goat
- Ken Burns' American Revolution documentary
- More of the American Revolution documentary
Stupid Should Hurt: https://www.armstrongandgetty.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio of the
George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Arm Strong and get Katie and now he Armstrong and Getty.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
I just saw this from Peter Baker of the New
York Times. He's at the Dick Cheney funeral. We've been
we're talking about that last hour, all the people that
are there, Peter Baker, New York Times Rights. If anybody
needed more evidence of how politics have changed in America,
Rachel Maddow is at Dick Cheney's funeral. Wow, because he's
now he's now kind of seen as like the grown
(00:51):
up Republican Party as opposed to the evil, crazy Trump Party.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Because the Cheney family was anti Trump. Yes, yes, okay,
all right? Oh my god, why that took the wind
right out of my sales? Speaking of things that exhausted me,
the Epstein Document Release Act of twenty twenty five or
whatever they're calling it to pass both houses. The President
(01:15):
said he'll sign it. I think he did sign it.
But here's the problem. No one will ever be satisfied.
There are enormous loopholes for things that should not be
and probably will not be released, at least not now.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
To an extent that again, we'll leave everybody unhappy.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I think, well, there, Like I said, there's going to
be tremendous political pressure on everyone if there's a whole
bunch of stuff redacted to unredacted, and I think it'll
be enough that there'll be pressure on the President to
tell Pambondi to tell the Justice Department to get more
(01:54):
stuff out there.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I mean, what.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Passed what for twenty three to one in the Senate
didn't even bother to argue about it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean, it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Eighty five percent of Americans or something like that want
it all to come out. There's gonna be so much
political pressure to have as little hidden as possible. So
it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I
just read this from one of my favorite thinkers. The
Epstein files release sets a horrible precedent as cowardly politicians
(02:27):
abandoned long standing norms regarding privacy and the presumption of
innocence to the mob. And they've got a picture here
of Larry Summers. Yeah, Larry Summers driven out of his
final job. He'd quit everything, the former president at Harvard,
but was going to hang on to his teaching position
at Harvard.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know why, because he's an expert in the area.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
He was teaching, one of the best experts on planet
Earth in what he was teaching at Harvard. And we
found out something from many years ago that was very untoward.
I mean, it's definitely bad behavior.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
But that shouldn't have come out. He didn't commit a crime.
He wasn't He's not accused of a crime. He didn't.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
He just tangentially related to an investigation. And that could
happen over and over and over again, just on this
Epstein thing. And if it becomes the norm that we
release all this stuff with every investigation, well then forget it.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Any of us could get caught up in something.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
It reminds me metaphorically if you've got a really, really
good reason to murder somebody, Once you start murdering people,
oh my god, it's you know, Katie bar the door.
There are plenty of good reasons to want to know
are there more victims that are there more perpetrators you know,
sex trafficking, sexual exploiting underage girls and that sort of thing.
(03:43):
But at the same time, the government, the cops, local, state, federal.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
FBI, whatever.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
They have the right literally to go through your underwear drawer,
paw through all of your phone records and texts and emails,
all your financial records and everything, and the idea that
everybody's so pristine and has never done anything at all
embarrassing or untoward or immoral or at a momentary lapse
of whatever. And therefore the authorities ought to be able
(04:12):
to just broadcast that to whomever they want, any time
they want. I mean, that's anathema to our system. Well, yeah,
I was this bothers me, and I understand the desire
to look into it.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I really do.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, I was going to say, because I can hear
people saying, yeah, well I don't care, because I don't.
I wasn't emailing Jeffrey Epstein about how to get an
underling in bed, which Larry Summers was, and that's why
he's lost all of his jobs. Now he's completely he's
got out of public life. But that's not the way
(04:46):
we're Are you going to tell me you got nothing
in your past, nothing at any at any point in
your past, professionally, personally, romantically, anything that if it were
acts as criminal, and that if it were exposed it
wouldn't look bad without explanation.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Of course you do. Everybody does, and.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It could be part of an investigation where you're not
You didn't come in a crime, You have nothing to
do with the investigation at all. You just got emailed
the person once, or you know, you hired them once
to do a jobs here in their tax records or whatever.
The hell do you want all that sort of stuff
to come out every time there's an investigation.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, you do not well.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And we were talking more specifically the other day about
how both of us have been with people that seem
like they are super fun to hang out with, they
really like to party, and then as you got to
know them a little better, you realized, oh, they're going
well beyond my definition of a good party into something
I don't want to be part of.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But you could absolutely be tied.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
To that person he attended one of his several of
his parties. You of course had no idea that they
were doing cocaine with twelve year olds or whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But the minute you got a.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Hint that, wow, they're doing really bad stuff that I
have no interest in, you don't go back again. But
you could easily be tired with that information, and again
I get we're talking about exploitation of underage girls, and
there's absolutely the stench of the powerful protect each other.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But oh man, this is this is a line.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
If we cross it here and again, there are tons
of documents that are not going to come out for
various reasons. I want if we cross the line, I
hope it's just this. Once I walked home from a
party one time.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I thought it was just a regular whoopee party, like
a drink of beer and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
That's what we're doing, and that's the way it started.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
And then this guy was brought in that everybody was
talking about these people I knew and using They called
him the doctor, and he was coming over and he
got there and everybody's happy, and then all these crazy
things came out and it became a different party than
I want to be at.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And I left.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I just I will like sex toys or wild animals
or dru drugs.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I walked home and it was not long after that
that that guy is probably still in prison. He got
busted big at that kind of a party. The police
had been keeping an eye on him, and they all
came in and swarmed in.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I was always glad that I decided, Yeah, this is
not what I came here for, and I just walked home.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I staggered home.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That's like the it's five minutes to the bar and
fifteen minutes home. Why the difference is staggering? I staggered
home from that party, glad I did. There's lots of
people got caught up in that one total.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Change topic speaking of good judgment and bad mikey Manual
of Fox News here story just breaking.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I think in the last couple of days cliped fifty Michael.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Some prominent national security Democrats are preaching anti fascism while
urging US military personnel to defive President Trump.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
Right now, the threats to our constitution aren't just coming
from Rod but.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
From right here at home. Our laws are clear.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You can refuse illegal orders.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
You can refuse illegal orders.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Hmmm, So what is that more specific? Next clip Michael.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
White House Deputy chief of Staff Stephen Miller calling this
unbecoming of their office.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
There is nothing graver that you could possibly say. It
encouraging urging directing members of the armed forces of the
United States are the clandestine services of the United States
to defy their president, defy their chain of command.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
This has been burbling around for a couple of weeks.
Now I guess it's now out in the open more.
There've been opinion pieces and that sort of stuff urging. Well,
first it started with the people that are blasting the
boats down there by Venezuela. Are they guilty of a crime?
If it turns out the Supreme Court says the president
(08:49):
doesn't have the right to do this, doesn't have the
authorization to do this, Are they guilty of crime? Then
there was a ruling that no, they're not guilty of
a crime. But then there was the push out there
that you should these orders, it's a crime. Well, then
the obvious conversation started at how far down the road
are you going to go of people get to ignore
(09:10):
orders because they're afraid they might not be legal. And
what am I supposed to do if I'm a don't know,
what's a rank above private but slightly higher than that,
But what am I supposed to hire? I'm told to
do something, And then I got to get a lawyer,
have them look it over and write me a paper,
and then maybe run it by another lawyer to make
sure I'm on the right side of whatever I'm about
to do.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
It cares to me.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
This operation is going to destroy private property and I'd
rather not be prosecuted for you know, vandalism or whatever.
So I got to have my attorney look look at
this first. Thank you, sergeant. Yeah, no kidding. So here's
a Republican and Democrat commenting. First, this is Pat Fallon
of Texas, the Republican.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's just as broad. You don't follow illegal orders. Well,
guess what.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
As a former active duty member of the US military,
that's one of the first things they teach you is
that you don't follow illegal orders.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So they're being redundant as well.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Yeah, worth Worth pointing that out. That is the rule
constitutionally and in the military. You do not have to
fall in illegal order. But it has limits, obviously, or
the whole thing would fall apart. You couldn't You couldn't
run the military at all.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
He flies and steals things out of golf carts. He's
representative Jason Crowe, the Democrat of Colorado.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
As a military officer, what I think is important is
we train people, we give them information, We prepare people
for challenges coming down the pike. That is what I
did as a commander in the military. That's what I'm
doing now, as we are standing by our troops, we
are reminding them of their obligation.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
The Interestingly enough, nobody cited anything specific, and they didn't
say which service members might have received or have received
illegal orders.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It just the general.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
The crows seem to be calling his name said call
that's one of my favorite.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Tjope, hilarious.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I don't know that this has been really hot in
your left wing circles for the last week or so.
Should be defying orders from an illegal president?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Got this note from Henry.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Democrats encouraged American servicemen to disobey presidential orders if they
felt they were legal, but refused to give an example
of such an order from Trump. So grand standing from
the left, who risk nothing from encouraging others to violate
their sworn oaths. I hope no young soldier, sailor, or
airman gets deceived by these scoundrels to commit a foolish
decision that could ruin their life. Oh, the Left would
love their martyrdom and the media would make them celebrities,
(11:44):
But when it came to paying the price, these demagogues
would hide behind their lawyers that's true. Pity the young
sergeant who goes the way of uh, you know, Chelsea Manning.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
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There's a little talk about how the TSA is going
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week of the year coming up next week, and we
ought to check in on that story, among other things.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Stay with us.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Strong.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So I'm just looking at this. We got a clip.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Man screams when he runs into the neighborhood goat. Let's
hear what that sounds like.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Smokey, here is a neighborhood favorite.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
He's scared the female out of me. I mean, look
at them. Just looked at the window, make sure he
was okay. And my mom running outside with a knife.
But she's so scared of animals. Go trying to hump us.
Goat trying to hump us? Is that what he said?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Is the end? Mom ran outside with a knife. I'm
gonna stab the goat man. Card, Please hand it over
feel you overreacted to a goat. The goat we're talking
about now, if it were a substantial goat and it
were indeed trying to end I quote humph Us, that
would be alarming.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It would.
Speaker 8 (14:18):
I have a feeling this was like a pigmy goat.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Probably in a city area, they're almost always your little
dwarf goats.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Pigmy goes in there. Yeah, probably working sweater.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, he jumped on his car and then started screaming.
That's what goats do, man, they jump on top of
every vehicle you got. I think the guy jumped in
the guy jump in the car. He jumped on streaming goats,
screaming guy because of a goat. Well, you can't get
away from a goat that way. It'll just jump on
top of the car with you. Hey, what are you doing?
Cool up here in nice view?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Nice view? Mind? If I help you. That's some square
he's got. It's like goes. It scared the female out
of him.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I'm trying to think if there's a situation where I'd
ever scream like that.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I'm fortunate that well.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I've had some bad things happen or startling things happen,
and I've never screamed I don't think.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
No, I don't I.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Or something like many times in my life, but I've
never gone ah like that, like I have a like
I got a vagina. Wow, that was unnecessary. Yeah, tell
me more, Jack, I'll step back and let the lady
have some.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Just go ahead, Jack, keep going with that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Though, I think in general, screaming is more the female
persuasion than the male persuasion on the whole, on the whole,
not obviously working with Larry Summers right, disgusting misogie.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
On average, I think it's more often women than men
who scream.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
When I crested a small hill and him face to
face with a mountain lion a number of years ago, no,
I yelled, holy y yeah, yeah, and the mountain lion
turned and looked at me with a look at its
face like holy yes are you?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's Joe Getty from Armstrong and Geddy. Do you love
your shows? Do you have you ever screamed Katie been
startled and screamed No, I don't think so.
Speaker 8 (16:28):
I can think of two times I've been really startled.
My first reaction was to swing at whatever it was, So.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
There you go.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, you don't picture me as a screamer. You picture
me as more of a swing on whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, kick it in the face.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, pretty much went in doubt.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, kick it in the face. Do you have any
control over that? No?
Speaker 9 (16:49):
No.
Speaker 8 (16:50):
My one of one example, it was a dear friend
of mine and I was standing outside and he came
up behind me and thought it would be a good
idea to pinch the back of my neck and scream
really loud when he did it, and I came around
with an elbow and followed through and just clocked him
and I didn't realize it was him until laughter.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So so you're your reaction to fright, you don't think
you have any control over Maybe you don't.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
No, except through training, But it'd take a lot of
military training, police training, that sort of thing. And it
could be there's some people who just they for whatever
anthropological reason, they just can't.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Or a lot of experiences. Maybe you're not trained, but
it just happens to you a lot. I'll bet you
get numbed to it if you you know, I imagine
the first time a bomb hit your apartment complex in Kiev,
you might scream, but the tenth time, it's like here,
we go again.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
M hmm, yeah, speaking of which, there's a peace plan
in the works that will never work for a single second,
but Trump is trying anyway.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
I got a question about the ken Burns American Revolution documentary.
I only watched like three minutes, and I thought, that's weird.
I've never heard that. It's already turned into a controversy
the first three minutes. I think I'll see if Hanson
could grabbed the audio because I want to discuss this.
I'd never heard it before, and I'll see if Joe's
ever heard it before.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Armstrong and Getty.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So we're going to talk about this Ken Burns documentary,
the American Revolution, which I watched like five minutes of
It's twelve hours long. I've seen five minutes of it,
and already in the first five minutes, I was like, hm,
I never heard that before. I'll have to look into that,
and it's kind of erupted into a controversy already.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Now.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
I'm from South Dakota, so I'm well aware of how
the Indians got host I mean, I've been hearing that
my whole life and reading about it my whole life.
And I'm also called Kansas home and I think that's
where the last Indian battle was in American history, but uh,
yeah it was.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But I don't know. I just maybe it's.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Because I'm a white guy, or just because I think, yeah,
that's the history of the world. And one team wins
and one team loses, and I don't know, what do
you want me to do?
Speaker 6 (18:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, yeah, like we could go over the history of
the part of like you Germany slash Austria, a lot
of my family's from, and how many warrior tribes have
held it, taken it, slaughtered, somebody else gotten slaughtered, blah
blah blah. So I just it's it's unquestionably true, but
I just know. So what is my question? I mean,
(19:19):
some of the the dishonesty and double dealing by the
government was shameful back in the day.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
But again, what am I going to do?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Oh yeah, it's so horrifying, but probably very similar, if
not much less brutal than what those Indian tribes were
doing to other Indian tribes when they decided they wanted
their land. What's that Summer Moon book you read, Empire
the Summer Moon. Oh my god, is that a good book?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
But brutal right, very not for the kids. Get time story.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
God, that first chapter, I that's funny. It pops into
my head every now and then, like it gives me
a shudder. That's how bad it was. Any horrific torture.
That's all you need to know.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
So this is from the very like first couple of minutes.
This is a couple of minutes long, two minutes long.
Stick with it if you will, because we'll discuss afterwards.
I don't feel guilty about playing it since it's PBS
and my tax Paramonney.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Paid for it, at least partially. Anyway. So it's ken Burns.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's about the American Revolution, and I knew it was
going to have more how the Native Americans got hosed
than you usually get out of.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Founding Father stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I thought, yeah, that's probably fine, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Anyway, here's how it goes.
Speaker 9 (20:39):
This is the very ow we know our lands are
now become more valuable. The white people think we do
not know their value, but we are sensible that the
land is everlasting. Knastego, spokesman for the Six Nations.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Long before thirteen British colonies made themselves into the United States,
the Six Nations of the Iroquois confederacy Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Tuscarora, Oneida,
and Mohawk had created a union of their own that
they called the Hoda Nashone, a democracy that had flourished
(21:22):
for centuries.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We heartily recommend union.
Speaker 9 (21:27):
We are a powerful confederacy, and by your observing the
same methods our wise forefathers have taken, you will acquire
fresh strength and power. Therefore, whatever befalls you never fall
out one with another.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
In the spring of seventeen fifty four, the celebrated scientist
and writer Benjamin Franklin proposed that the British colonies form
a similar union.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Okay, so the implication being there that the Indians had
a democracy going for centuries.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's what they said a couple hundred.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Years before we got here, and we Benjamin Frankin took
our kind of cue from them on starting the similar thing.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'd never heard that before.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Specifically a union of separate entities.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
I'd never heard that before, and it made me go, hm,
have to look into that anyway. So it's kind of
turned into a controversy a little bit, with a variety
of my favorite thinkers arguing on Twitter, which is where
you argue if you're a part of the intelligence. Less
than three minutes into the Ken Burns documentary on the
American Revolution, we get one, white people are bad. Two
Native Americans had a centuries old democracy before British Collins arrived,
(22:45):
and three Benjamin Franklin copied the Native American Blueprint. A
different thinker with a different point of view said, the
League of the Iroquois being a framework for the Constitution
is pretty basic middle high school history textbook stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Sorry you didn't pay attention.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I hadn't heard that, and I've done a lot of
reading about this over my life that we took our
cue from the Indians on the whole democracy thing, it
was a model for the Constitution.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And then Charles C. W.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Cook, who we both like, from the National Review, said
it's also pretty basic nonsense. So I would like to
get Tim Sanderfer involved in this because I had never
heard that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And to lead with that, I.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Mean, the opening of the Twelve Hours is, you know,
it really came up with the idea from the Indians
who were already here and doing a democracy, and everything
was just hunky dory, and then we know killed them
all off and took their idea, is that what the
point of this is?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Wow? Wow? Is that a reach? That's what I sa
several different ways. That's what I thought.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It just seemed like such a reach, And to lead
with it makes me think. I was really looking forward
to this because he's such a great documentary filmmaker. I
was really looking forward to it. And I'm sure there's
a whole bunch of stuff in there that I'm gonna love.
But if you lead with that, how much? Oh, this
is gonna be hard to watch.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
The subtitle is how British colonists imitated the Indians and
built a country and kicked the Indians off their country?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, okay, great, all right?
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Had you ever heard that before that Benjamin Franklin got
his idea that he pitched to the colonists from the Indians.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
No, no, it doesn't ring a bell.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
You know, the fact that there were democratic systems quote
unquote among the tribes I'd known, but like as that was,
that was portrayed as a direct inspiration a b C.
As opposed to you know, the Roman and Greek republics
and the you know, the various philosophers and John Locke
(24:41):
and all sorts of you know, I could.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Go on and on John Stuart mill.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Later, ah, but to be no, that was there was
a way to direct a line to draw, and that's
an odd place to begin. That is not what the
the documentary is not about the receding of the Indian tribes.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Well, I'm willing to be corrected, but I've done scrunching
up my nose at the idea of a multi century
long successful democracy among the Indian nations.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I just don't buy that.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It could have been a confederation and there could have
been some sort of voting, but it's not like the
individual tribal members probably with regular wars to the death
in which they you know, redraw the boundaries and come
to some sort of truth for a little while, would
be my guess. Yeah, it's more likely that, you know,
the leaders of the various tribes got together and said, hey,
(25:33):
all right, four to three, we're gonna go to war
with the Sioux or whatever. But yeah, yeah, that's a stretch.
I tell you what if that's the beginning of the
very beginning, that's the first very minutes collect I know,
and I wanted to enjoy this. Why is everybody so
(25:55):
not everybody, But why are why is a certain crowd
so re existent to just tell him the story of
what happened.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Because they getting over from a.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, Ken Burns would get the hell beat out of
him by the people he holds dear the left if
he were just to tell the story of the formation
of the most successful country on.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Earth that change the world forever.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
They did have that in the run up.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
They did have that in the run up, Like the
previews before the thing started about how this is the
most important revolution in world history and this kicked off,
you know, an entirely different era from mankind, and all
the importance of it was not left out. And I've
heard him doing interviews where he talks about that. He doesn't,
I mean, he's definitely not leaning into the America as
(26:45):
a force for evil. It was founded on slavery. The
world would have been better off if we never happened.
Fang that the you know garbage Hannah Jones, whatever her
name is, pitches Howard's in filth. Bet he wouldn't have
been able to get the funding to even do the
damn thing if he hadn't leaned this hard into We
just copied the Indians really, ain't it.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
They'd already done it. Why didn't we just let them
keep it? All right?
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Eh, I'll watch a little more of it out before
I can get if that's what happened in the first
one hundred and eighty seconds, damn it. It was like
there have been a couple of shows that have been
fairly highly recommended, including one in particular, Slow Horses, which
(27:35):
is a really good British drama with what's his face?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
The actor, you know, the guy with two arms? Anyway,
what is it, Gary oldman?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You know it? And it became Rudy Calhoun.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And the plot was there'd been an Islamic extremist bombing
in London. But then the twist was quickly early that no,
it wasn't Islamic terrists. It was white nationalists, racists trying
to fake a Muslim attack to discredit them because there's
(28:13):
such bigots. I was like, I'm out, and it's set
in London. We'll test out an enormous problem with the
Islamization of the great cities of Britain, much like most
of Europe, having let in rampant immigration from North Africa
for years and years and years. I was like, okay,
come on, and I tell you what, Ken, you screw up.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Your woke little dwarf and you die your hair.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
What there's no reason to go through him and shot
him in this very studio.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
He dies his air. We saw it up clothes. I'm
not denying it's true. He's like eighty years old and
he protects thirty five. It's not salient, is my objection.
Well that's probably true.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, Oh, you're gonna make it about okay. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Maybe he feels like he has to buy off his
crowd so then he can get to the story of
the revolution.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I'd love to ask him that question. Dude, why would
you start with that? I mean, even if they had
a functioning democracy in you know that we modern people
would recognize as a quote.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Unquote demonscription out of my face. And it hasn't been
covered very well. I'll tell you that that may have.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Been one of many inspirations and examples that the Enlightenment
generation studied. Tact like it's abc. Like I said before,
it's just not true. The hair on your head doesn't
match your beard at tall All right, then I'm done.
I'm through here.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I've tried.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Any thoughts on this text line four one five two
nine five KFTC.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
In the spring of seventeen fifty four, the celebrated scientist
and writer Benjamin Franklin proposed that the British colonies form
a similar union.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
So that's from ken Burn's new twelve hour documentary The
American Revolution, which I was really really looking forward to,
and three minutes into it, they open with the Indian
tribes having had a democracy for several hundred years and
it worked fine, and Benjamin Franklin thought, man, that's a
good idea.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
We should try that here.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And it took that queue from the Indians to try
to create a democracy ourselves and.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Put at them off the land, which did their form
of government, which was news to me. I had never
heard that angle before, and I thought, and now it's
kind of turned into an online argument.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, Jack, I'd forgotten.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I've spent my life studying this and I totally didn't
just do an AI search on the question, and I'm
not reading that. I'm just recalling my schooling and reading.
So this is chat GPT. It's probably worth mentioning that
a new university study of mental health literature found that
chat GPT fabricated fabricated roughly one in five academic citation.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Hey, I've got a theory on that.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
By the way, the whole hallucination thing.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Since AI is learning from us, I wonder if it's
just that, since we found out years ago, like half
of papers and studies can't be replicated, maybe it's just
figured out that's the way humans do it.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
They make so AI has figured nobody checks anyway.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
People make stuff up all the time. They're like they're
called university professors.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah maybe so anyway, Yes, many North American natives had
sophisticated systems of governance that qualify as functioning democracies, often
more participatory and consensual than European models of the time.
Well yeah, that's because they're mostly monarchies. But anyway, they
varied enormously by region nation. But to the point of
(31:43):
the one that ken Burns was citing, the Iroquois Confederacy,
which indeed hung together for hundreds of years, there were
six Indian nations united under the Great Law of Peace.
Here is this so called democracy. They had a grand
end Council of fifty civil chiefs known as sachems, that
(32:04):
were chosen interestingly by clan mothers, so the women, the
senior women of the tribes, would choose their senators. In effect,
decisions required unanimity, not simple majority. Satams could be removed
by the clan mothers if they failed to serve the people.
And there was a separation of war chiefs and peace chiefs,
(32:26):
which was viewed.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
As something like civilian control of the military.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But the idea that fifty emissaries would get together it
could be described as an oligarchy as easily as a democracy.
I think these fifty chiefs got together and had a vote,
and it had to be unanimous over thousands of people,
thousands and thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I wouldn't call that a democracy exactly. Well, so that's
one thing that's just confederation.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Oh and Ben Franklin, John Adams and other founders explicitly
referenced the Confederacy as an example of the sort of
union that was possible.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
But well, anybody who's into this stuff has done enough
reading on all the founding fathers that they were super into,
as you already pointed out what the Greeks and the
Romans had done, and writers like John Locke and all
that sort of stuff. I don't remember regular references to
what the Indian tribes have pulled off well, right, And
it's easy to.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Imagine John Adams or Ben Franklin saying, I mean, for instance,
right here you witnessed that these tribes came together and
confederated and work out their differences.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But yeah, they studied the Greek and Roman systems in
particular in their strengths and weaknesses exhaustively. So again the
idea that hey, wait a minute, look at those what
there's Indians are doing. I got an idea, and that's
what launched the American Revolution.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's just silly, ken.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
So each of those representatives that would go in and vote,
were they taking a vote back at home with their
tribe or were they just decided what was best for them?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Oh, they were just you know, they were probably reflecting
the desires of the tribe.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Maybe they could be booted knowing human nature. Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
If the old gals of the tribe didn't think they
were doing a good job, they could say, no, you
don't get to be a satiem anymore. But yeah, to
call that a democracy is a hell of a stretch.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
And then the other stretch to say that's what gave
Ben Franklin the idea for forming a democracy in the colonies.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
It's trying way too hard, it really is. Yeah, Ken,
you're guilty of trying way.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
To art in the first three minutes of the show.
You're a little more excusable if that had come in
an hour eight. And by the way, the Indians had
done something similar that the Founding Fathers had fired among
the structural examples they followed happened to be. Now that
would be interesting, sure, but to act like that was
the uh, you know, what's the Latin phrase? That's the
(34:53):
moment of genesis, that is the seed of the American system.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
No, it's not. Hmmm, I'll watch more of it. See
what I think. Democracy is a terrible idea.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Speaking of history, I was told the new Netflix series
about the assassination of James Garfield is really really good,
like really good with big time actors and stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
You was that just last night? No?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
No, I hadn't, but a friend who's very very sophisticated
recommended it quite strongly.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I'll have to check that out. Maybe I'll get to
that before I get to the American Revolution.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Oh what I was it's starting to say was democracies
are a terrible idea just because the.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Mob rule is terrifying. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You have to have, you know, sober representatives who have
allegedly the good of the people in their hearts. I
think we've gotten a little off track with that, I'd
say anyway, Okay, well I'll check it out and report back.
So we do twenty hours of this show every single week.
(35:54):
There are lots of segments or lots of hours. Some
of them are so good you want to hear multiple
times and playing for your friends. So you just download
our podcasts or subscribe to it Armstrong and Getty on demand.
You'll have all those pieces coming to you on a
daily basis. Oh and head to Armstrong and Getty dot
com the superstore. Oh my gosh, people are loving the
kftc aprons and T shirts and the ruin the entire country.
(36:14):
Newsome twenty twenty eight t shirts, Armstrong and Getty dot Com.
Armstrong and Getty
Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio of the
George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Arm Strong and get Katie and now he Armstrong and Getty.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
I just saw this from Peter Baker of the New
York Times. He's at the Dick Cheney funeral. We've been
we're talking about that last hour, all the people that
are there, Peter Baker, New York Times Rights. If anybody
needed more evidence of how politics have changed in America,
Rachel Maddow is at Dick Cheney's funeral. Wow, because he's
now he's now kind of seen as like the grown
(00:51):
up Republican Party as opposed to the evil, crazy Trump Party.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Because the Cheney family was anti Trump. Yes, yes, okay,
all right? Oh my god, why that took the wind
right out of my sales? Speaking of things that exhausted me,
the Epstein Document Release Act of twenty twenty five or
whatever they're calling it to pass both houses. The President
(01:15):
said he'll sign it. I think he did sign it.
But here's the problem. No one will ever be satisfied.
There are enormous loopholes for things that should not be
and probably will not be released, at least not now.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
To an extent that again, we'll leave everybody unhappy.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I think, well, there, Like I said, there's going to
be tremendous political pressure on everyone if there's a whole
bunch of stuff redacted to unredacted, and I think it'll
be enough that there'll be pressure on the President to
tell Pambondi to tell the Justice Department to get more
(01:54):
stuff out there.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I mean, what.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Passed what for twenty three to one in the Senate
didn't even bother to argue about it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean, it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Eighty five percent of Americans or something like that want
it all to come out. There's gonna be so much
political pressure to have as little hidden as possible. So
it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I
just read this from one of my favorite thinkers. The
Epstein files release sets a horrible precedent as cowardly politicians
(02:27):
abandoned long standing norms regarding privacy and the presumption of
innocence to the mob. And they've got a picture here
of Larry Summers. Yeah, Larry Summers driven out of his
final job. He'd quit everything, the former president at Harvard,
but was going to hang on to his teaching position
at Harvard.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know why, because he's an expert in the area.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
He was teaching, one of the best experts on planet
Earth in what he was teaching at Harvard. And we
found out something from many years ago that was very untoward.
I mean, it's definitely bad behavior.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
But that shouldn't have come out. He didn't commit a crime.
He wasn't He's not accused of a crime. He didn't.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
He just tangentially related to an investigation. And that could
happen over and over and over again, just on this
Epstein thing. And if it becomes the norm that we
release all this stuff with every investigation, well then forget it.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Any of us could get caught up in something.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
It reminds me metaphorically if you've got a really, really
good reason to murder somebody, Once you start murdering people,
oh my god, it's you know, Katie bar the door.
There are plenty of good reasons to want to know
are there more victims that are there more perpetrators you know,
sex trafficking, sexual exploiting underage girls and that sort of thing.
(03:43):
But at the same time, the government, the cops, local, state, federal.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
FBI, whatever.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
They have the right literally to go through your underwear drawer,
paw through all of your phone records and texts and emails,
all your financial records and everything, and the idea that
everybody's so pristine and has never done anything at all
embarrassing or untoward or immoral or at a momentary lapse
of whatever. And therefore the authorities ought to be able
(04:12):
to just broadcast that to whomever they want, any time
they want. I mean, that's anathema to our system. Well, yeah,
I was this bothers me, and I understand the desire
to look into it.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I really do.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, I was going to say, because I can hear
people saying, yeah, well I don't care, because I don't.
I wasn't emailing Jeffrey Epstein about how to get an
underling in bed, which Larry Summers was, and that's why
he's lost all of his jobs. Now he's completely he's
got out of public life. But that's not the way
(04:46):
we're Are you going to tell me you got nothing
in your past, nothing at any at any point in
your past, professionally, personally, romantically, anything that if it were
acts as criminal, and that if it were exposed it
wouldn't look bad without explanation.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Of course you do. Everybody does, and.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It could be part of an investigation where you're not
You didn't come in a crime, You have nothing to
do with the investigation at all. You just got emailed
the person once, or you know, you hired them once
to do a jobs here in their tax records or whatever.
The hell do you want all that sort of stuff
to come out every time there's an investigation.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, you do not well.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And we were talking more specifically the other day about
how both of us have been with people that seem
like they are super fun to hang out with, they
really like to party, and then as you got to
know them a little better, you realized, oh, they're going
well beyond my definition of a good party into something
I don't want to be part of.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But you could absolutely be tied.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
To that person he attended one of his several of
his parties. You of course had no idea that they
were doing cocaine with twelve year olds or whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But the minute you got a.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Hint that, wow, they're doing really bad stuff that I
have no interest in, you don't go back again. But
you could easily be tired with that information, and again
I get we're talking about exploitation of underage girls, and
there's absolutely the stench of the powerful protect each other.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But oh man, this is this is a line.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
If we cross it here and again, there are tons
of documents that are not going to come out for
various reasons. I want if we cross the line, I
hope it's just this. Once I walked home from a
party one time.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I thought it was just a regular whoopee party, like
a drink of beer and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
That's what we're doing, and that's the way it started.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
And then this guy was brought in that everybody was
talking about these people I knew and using They called
him the doctor, and he was coming over and he
got there and everybody's happy, and then all these crazy
things came out and it became a different party than
I want to be at.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And I left.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I just I will like sex toys or wild animals
or dru drugs.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I walked home and it was not long after that
that that guy is probably still in prison. He got
busted big at that kind of a party. The police
had been keeping an eye on him, and they all
came in and swarmed in.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I was always glad that I decided, Yeah, this is
not what I came here for, and I just walked home.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I staggered home.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That's like the it's five minutes to the bar and
fifteen minutes home. Why the difference is staggering? I staggered
home from that party, glad I did. There's lots of
people got caught up in that one total.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Change topic speaking of good judgment and bad mikey Manual
of Fox News here story just breaking.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I think in the last couple of days cliped fifty Michael.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Some prominent national security Democrats are preaching anti fascism while
urging US military personnel to defive President Trump.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
Right now, the threats to our constitution aren't just coming
from Rod but.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
From right here at home. Our laws are clear.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You can refuse illegal orders.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
You can refuse illegal orders.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Hmmm, So what is that more specific? Next clip Michael.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
White House Deputy chief of Staff Stephen Miller calling this
unbecoming of their office.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
There is nothing graver that you could possibly say. It
encouraging urging directing members of the armed forces of the
United States are the clandestine services of the United States
to defy their president, defy their chain of command.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
This has been burbling around for a couple of weeks.
Now I guess it's now out in the open more.
There've been opinion pieces and that sort of stuff urging. Well,
first it started with the people that are blasting the
boats down there by Venezuela. Are they guilty of a crime?
If it turns out the Supreme Court says the president
(08:49):
doesn't have the right to do this, doesn't have the
authorization to do this, Are they guilty of crime? Then
there was a ruling that no, they're not guilty of
a crime. But then there was the push out there
that you should these orders, it's a crime. Well, then
the obvious conversation started at how far down the road
are you going to go of people get to ignore
(09:10):
orders because they're afraid they might not be legal. And
what am I supposed to do if I'm a don't know,
what's a rank above private but slightly higher than that,
But what am I supposed to hire? I'm told to
do something, And then I got to get a lawyer,
have them look it over and write me a paper,
and then maybe run it by another lawyer to make
sure I'm on the right side of whatever I'm about
to do.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
It cares to me.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
This operation is going to destroy private property and I'd
rather not be prosecuted for you know, vandalism or whatever.
So I got to have my attorney look look at
this first. Thank you, sergeant. Yeah, no kidding. So here's
a Republican and Democrat commenting. First, this is Pat Fallon
of Texas, the Republican.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's just as broad. You don't follow illegal orders. Well,
guess what.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
As a former active duty member of the US military,
that's one of the first things they teach you is
that you don't follow illegal orders.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So they're being redundant as well.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Yeah, worth Worth pointing that out. That is the rule
constitutionally and in the military. You do not have to
fall in illegal order. But it has limits, obviously, or
the whole thing would fall apart. You couldn't You couldn't
run the military at all.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
He flies and steals things out of golf carts. He's
representative Jason Crowe, the Democrat of Colorado.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
As a military officer, what I think is important is
we train people, we give them information, We prepare people
for challenges coming down the pike. That is what I
did as a commander in the military. That's what I'm
doing now, as we are standing by our troops, we
are reminding them of their obligation.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
The Interestingly enough, nobody cited anything specific, and they didn't
say which service members might have received or have received
illegal orders.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It just the general.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
The crows seem to be calling his name said call
that's one of my favorite.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Tjope, hilarious.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I don't know that this has been really hot in
your left wing circles for the last week or so.
Should be defying orders from an illegal president?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Got this note from Henry.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Democrats encouraged American servicemen to disobey presidential orders if they
felt they were legal, but refused to give an example
of such an order from Trump. So grand standing from
the left, who risk nothing from encouraging others to violate
their sworn oaths. I hope no young soldier, sailor, or
airman gets deceived by these scoundrels to commit a foolish
decision that could ruin their life. Oh, the Left would
love their martyrdom and the media would make them celebrities,
(11:44):
But when it came to paying the price, these demagogues
would hide behind their lawyers that's true. Pity the young
sergeant who goes the way of uh, you know, Chelsea Manning.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Or you know, yeah, person like that. We like telling
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Speaker 4 (13:08):
There's a little talk about how the TSA is going
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week of the year coming up next week, and we
ought to check in on that story, among other things.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Stay with us.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Strong.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So I'm just looking at this. We got a clip.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Man screams when he runs into the neighborhood goat. Let's
hear what that sounds like.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Smokey, here is a neighborhood favorite.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
He's scared the female out of me. I mean, look
at them. Just looked at the window, make sure he
was okay. And my mom running outside with a knife.
But she's so scared of animals. Go trying to hump us.
Goat trying to hump us? Is that what he said?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Is the end? Mom ran outside with a knife. I'm
gonna stab the goat man. Card, Please hand it over
feel you overreacted to a goat. The goat we're talking
about now, if it were a substantial goat and it
were indeed trying to end I quote humph Us, that
would be alarming.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It would.
Speaker 8 (14:18):
I have a feeling this was like a pigmy goat.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Probably in a city area, they're almost always your little
dwarf goats.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Pigmy goes in there. Yeah, probably working sweater.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, he jumped on his car and then started screaming.
That's what goats do, man, they jump on top of
every vehicle you got. I think the guy jumped in
the guy jump in the car. He jumped on streaming goats,
screaming guy because of a goat. Well, you can't get
away from a goat that way. It'll just jump on
top of the car with you. Hey, what are you doing?
Cool up here in nice view?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Nice view? Mind? If I help you. That's some square
he's got. It's like goes. It scared the female out
of him.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I'm trying to think if there's a situation where I'd
ever scream like that.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I'm fortunate that well.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I've had some bad things happen or startling things happen,
and I've never screamed I don't think.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
No, I don't I.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Or something like many times in my life, but I've
never gone ah like that, like I have a like
I got a vagina. Wow, that was unnecessary. Yeah, tell
me more, Jack, I'll step back and let the lady
have some.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Just go ahead, Jack, keep going with that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Though, I think in general, screaming is more the female
persuasion than the male persuasion on the whole, on the whole,
not obviously working with Larry Summers right, disgusting misogie.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
On average, I think it's more often women than men
who scream.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
When I crested a small hill and him face to
face with a mountain lion a number of years ago, no,
I yelled, holy y yeah, yeah, and the mountain lion
turned and looked at me with a look at its
face like holy yes are you?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's Joe Getty from Armstrong and Geddy. Do you love
your shows? Do you have you ever screamed Katie been
startled and screamed No, I don't think so.
Speaker 8 (16:28):
I can think of two times I've been really startled.
My first reaction was to swing at whatever it was, So.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
There you go.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, you don't picture me as a screamer. You picture
me as more of a swing on whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, kick it in the face.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, pretty much went in doubt.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, kick it in the face. Do you have any
control over that? No?
Speaker 9 (16:49):
No.
Speaker 8 (16:50):
My one of one example, it was a dear friend
of mine and I was standing outside and he came
up behind me and thought it would be a good
idea to pinch the back of my neck and scream
really loud when he did it, and I came around
with an elbow and followed through and just clocked him
and I didn't realize it was him until laughter.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So so you're your reaction to fright, you don't think
you have any control over Maybe you don't.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
No, except through training, But it'd take a lot of
military training, police training, that sort of thing. And it
could be there's some people who just they for whatever
anthropological reason, they just can't.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Or a lot of experiences. Maybe you're not trained, but
it just happens to you a lot. I'll bet you
get numbed to it if you you know, I imagine
the first time a bomb hit your apartment complex in Kiev,
you might scream, but the tenth time, it's like here,
we go again.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
M hmm, yeah, speaking of which, there's a peace plan
in the works that will never work for a single second,
but Trump is trying anyway.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
I got a question about the ken Burns American Revolution documentary.
I only watched like three minutes, and I thought, that's weird.
I've never heard that. It's already turned into a controversy
the first three minutes. I think I'll see if Hanson
could grabbed the audio because I want to discuss this.
I'd never heard it before, and I'll see if Joe's
ever heard it before.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Armstrong and Getty.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So we're going to talk about this Ken Burns documentary,
the American Revolution, which I watched like five minutes of
It's twelve hours long. I've seen five minutes of it,
and already in the first five minutes, I was like, hm,
I never heard that before. I'll have to look into that,
and it's kind of erupted into a controversy already.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Now.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
I'm from South Dakota, so I'm well aware of how
the Indians got host I mean, I've been hearing that
my whole life and reading about it my whole life.
And I'm also called Kansas home and I think that's
where the last Indian battle was in American history, but uh,
yeah it was.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But I don't know. I just maybe it's.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Because I'm a white guy, or just because I think, yeah,
that's the history of the world. And one team wins
and one team loses, and I don't know, what do
you want me to do?
Speaker 6 (18:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, yeah, like we could go over the history of
the part of like you Germany slash Austria, a lot
of my family's from, and how many warrior tribes have
held it, taken it, slaughtered, somebody else gotten slaughtered, blah
blah blah. So I just it's it's unquestionably true, but
I just know. So what is my question? I mean,
(19:19):
some of the the dishonesty and double dealing by the
government was shameful back in the day.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
But again, what am I going to do?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Oh yeah, it's so horrifying, but probably very similar, if
not much less brutal than what those Indian tribes were
doing to other Indian tribes when they decided they wanted
their land. What's that Summer Moon book you read, Empire
the Summer Moon. Oh my god, is that a good book?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
But brutal right, very not for the kids. Get time story.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
God, that first chapter, I that's funny. It pops into
my head every now and then, like it gives me
a shudder. That's how bad it was. Any horrific torture.
That's all you need to know.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
So this is from the very like first couple of minutes.
This is a couple of minutes long, two minutes long.
Stick with it if you will, because we'll discuss afterwards.
I don't feel guilty about playing it since it's PBS
and my tax Paramonney.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Paid for it, at least partially. Anyway. So it's ken Burns.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's about the American Revolution, and I knew it was
going to have more how the Native Americans got hosed
than you usually get out of.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Founding Father stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I thought, yeah, that's probably fine, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Anyway, here's how it goes.
Speaker 9 (20:39):
This is the very ow we know our lands are
now become more valuable. The white people think we do
not know their value, but we are sensible that the
land is everlasting. Knastego, spokesman for the Six Nations.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Long before thirteen British colonies made themselves into the United States,
the Six Nations of the Iroquois confederacy Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Tuscarora, Oneida,
and Mohawk had created a union of their own that
they called the Hoda Nashone, a democracy that had flourished
(21:22):
for centuries.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We heartily recommend union.
Speaker 9 (21:27):
We are a powerful confederacy, and by your observing the
same methods our wise forefathers have taken, you will acquire
fresh strength and power. Therefore, whatever befalls you never fall
out one with another.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
In the spring of seventeen fifty four, the celebrated scientist
and writer Benjamin Franklin proposed that the British colonies form
a similar union.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Okay, so the implication being there that the Indians had
a democracy going for centuries.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's what they said a couple hundred.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Years before we got here, and we Benjamin Frankin took
our kind of cue from them on starting the similar thing.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'd never heard that before.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Specifically a union of separate entities.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
I'd never heard that before, and it made me go, hm,
have to look into that anyway. So it's kind of
turned into a controversy a little bit, with a variety
of my favorite thinkers arguing on Twitter, which is where
you argue if you're a part of the intelligence. Less
than three minutes into the Ken Burns documentary on the
American Revolution, we get one, white people are bad. Two
Native Americans had a centuries old democracy before British Collins arrived,
(22:45):
and three Benjamin Franklin copied the Native American Blueprint. A
different thinker with a different point of view said, the
League of the Iroquois being a framework for the Constitution
is pretty basic middle high school history textbook stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Sorry you didn't pay attention.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I hadn't heard that, and I've done a lot of
reading about this over my life that we took our
cue from the Indians on the whole democracy thing, it
was a model for the Constitution.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And then Charles C. W.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Cook, who we both like, from the National Review, said
it's also pretty basic nonsense. So I would like to
get Tim Sanderfer involved in this because I had never
heard that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And to lead with that, I.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Mean, the opening of the Twelve Hours is, you know,
it really came up with the idea from the Indians
who were already here and doing a democracy, and everything
was just hunky dory, and then we know killed them
all off and took their idea, is that what the
point of this is?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Wow? Wow? Is that a reach? That's what I sa
several different ways. That's what I thought.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It just seemed like such a reach, And to lead
with it makes me think. I was really looking forward
to this because he's such a great documentary filmmaker. I
was really looking forward to it. And I'm sure there's
a whole bunch of stuff in there that I'm gonna love.
But if you lead with that, how much? Oh, this
is gonna be hard to watch.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
The subtitle is how British colonists imitated the Indians and
built a country and kicked the Indians off their country?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, okay, great, all right?
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Had you ever heard that before that Benjamin Franklin got
his idea that he pitched to the colonists from the Indians.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
No, no, it doesn't ring a bell.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
You know, the fact that there were democratic systems quote
unquote among the tribes I'd known, but like as that was,
that was portrayed as a direct inspiration a b C.
As opposed to you know, the Roman and Greek republics
and the you know, the various philosophers and John Locke
(24:41):
and all sorts of you know, I could.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Go on and on John Stuart mill.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Later, ah, but to be no, that was there was
a way to direct a line to draw, and that's
an odd place to begin. That is not what the
the documentary is not about the receding of the Indian tribes.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Well, I'm willing to be corrected, but I've done scrunching
up my nose at the idea of a multi century
long successful democracy among the Indian nations.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I just don't buy that.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It could have been a confederation and there could have
been some sort of voting, but it's not like the
individual tribal members probably with regular wars to the death
in which they you know, redraw the boundaries and come
to some sort of truth for a little while, would
be my guess. Yeah, it's more likely that, you know,
the leaders of the various tribes got together and said, hey,
(25:33):
all right, four to three, we're gonna go to war
with the Sioux or whatever. But yeah, yeah, that's a stretch.
I tell you what if that's the beginning of the
very beginning, that's the first very minutes collect I know,
and I wanted to enjoy this. Why is everybody so
(25:55):
not everybody, But why are why is a certain crowd
so re existent to just tell him the story of
what happened.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Because they getting over from a.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, Ken Burns would get the hell beat out of
him by the people he holds dear the left if
he were just to tell the story of the formation
of the most successful country on.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Earth that change the world forever.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
They did have that in the run up.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
They did have that in the run up, Like the
previews before the thing started about how this is the
most important revolution in world history and this kicked off,
you know, an entirely different era from mankind, and all
the importance of it was not left out. And I've
heard him doing interviews where he talks about that. He doesn't,
I mean, he's definitely not leaning into the America as
(26:45):
a force for evil. It was founded on slavery. The
world would have been better off if we never happened.
Fang that the you know garbage Hannah Jones, whatever her
name is, pitches Howard's in filth. Bet he wouldn't have
been able to get the funding to even do the
damn thing if he hadn't leaned this hard into We
just copied the Indians really, ain't it.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
They'd already done it. Why didn't we just let them
keep it? All right?
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Eh, I'll watch a little more of it out before
I can get if that's what happened in the first
one hundred and eighty seconds, damn it. It was like
there have been a couple of shows that have been
fairly highly recommended, including one in particular, Slow Horses, which
(27:35):
is a really good British drama with what's his face?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
The actor, you know, the guy with two arms? Anyway,
what is it, Gary oldman?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You know it? And it became Rudy Calhoun.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And the plot was there'd been an Islamic extremist bombing
in London. But then the twist was quickly early that no,
it wasn't Islamic terrists. It was white nationalists, racists trying
to fake a Muslim attack to discredit them because there's
(28:13):
such bigots. I was like, I'm out, and it's set
in London. We'll test out an enormous problem with the
Islamization of the great cities of Britain, much like most
of Europe, having let in rampant immigration from North Africa
for years and years and years. I was like, okay,
come on, and I tell you what, Ken, you screw up.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Your woke little dwarf and you die your hair.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
What there's no reason to go through him and shot
him in this very studio.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
He dies his air. We saw it up clothes. I'm
not denying it's true. He's like eighty years old and
he protects thirty five. It's not salient, is my objection.
Well that's probably true.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, Oh, you're gonna make it about okay. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Maybe he feels like he has to buy off his
crowd so then he can get to the story of
the revolution.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I'd love to ask him that question. Dude, why would
you start with that? I mean, even if they had
a functioning democracy in you know that we modern people
would recognize as a quote.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Unquote demonscription out of my face. And it hasn't been
covered very well. I'll tell you that that may have.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Been one of many inspirations and examples that the Enlightenment
generation studied. Tact like it's abc. Like I said before,
it's just not true. The hair on your head doesn't
match your beard at tall All right, then I'm done.
I'm through here.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I've tried.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Any thoughts on this text line four one five two
nine five KFTC.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
In the spring of seventeen fifty four, the celebrated scientist
and writer Benjamin Franklin proposed that the British colonies form
a similar union.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
So that's from ken Burn's new twelve hour documentary The
American Revolution, which I was really really looking forward to,
and three minutes into it, they open with the Indian
tribes having had a democracy for several hundred years and
it worked fine, and Benjamin Franklin thought, man, that's a
good idea.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
We should try that here.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And it took that queue from the Indians to try
to create a democracy ourselves and.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Put at them off the land, which did their form
of government, which was news to me. I had never
heard that angle before, and I thought, and now it's
kind of turned into an online argument.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, Jack, I'd forgotten.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I've spent my life studying this and I totally didn't
just do an AI search on the question, and I'm
not reading that. I'm just recalling my schooling and reading.
So this is chat GPT. It's probably worth mentioning that
a new university study of mental health literature found that
chat GPT fabricated fabricated roughly one in five academic citation.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Hey, I've got a theory on that.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
By the way, the whole hallucination thing.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Since AI is learning from us, I wonder if it's
just that, since we found out years ago, like half
of papers and studies can't be replicated, maybe it's just
figured out that's the way humans do it.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
They make so AI has figured nobody checks anyway.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
People make stuff up all the time. They're like they're
called university professors.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah maybe so anyway, Yes, many North American natives had
sophisticated systems of governance that qualify as functioning democracies, often
more participatory and consensual than European models of the time.
Well yeah, that's because they're mostly monarchies. But anyway, they
varied enormously by region nation. But to the point of
(31:43):
the one that ken Burns was citing, the Iroquois Confederacy,
which indeed hung together for hundreds of years, there were
six Indian nations united under the Great Law of Peace.
Here is this so called democracy. They had a grand
end Council of fifty civil chiefs known as sachems, that
(32:04):
were chosen interestingly by clan mothers, so the women, the
senior women of the tribes, would choose their senators. In effect,
decisions required unanimity, not simple majority. Satams could be removed
by the clan mothers if they failed to serve the people.
And there was a separation of war chiefs and peace chiefs,
(32:26):
which was viewed.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
As something like civilian control of the military.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But the idea that fifty emissaries would get together it
could be described as an oligarchy as easily as a democracy.
I think these fifty chiefs got together and had a vote,
and it had to be unanimous over thousands of people,
thousands and thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I wouldn't call that a democracy exactly. Well, so that's
one thing that's just confederation.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Oh and Ben Franklin, John Adams and other founders explicitly
referenced the Confederacy as an example of the sort of
union that was possible.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
But well, anybody who's into this stuff has done enough
reading on all the founding fathers that they were super into,
as you already pointed out what the Greeks and the
Romans had done, and writers like John Locke and all
that sort of stuff. I don't remember regular references to
what the Indian tribes have pulled off well, right, And
it's easy to.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Imagine John Adams or Ben Franklin saying, I mean, for instance,
right here you witnessed that these tribes came together and
confederated and work out their differences.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But yeah, they studied the Greek and Roman systems in
particular in their strengths and weaknesses exhaustively. So again the
idea that hey, wait a minute, look at those what
there's Indians are doing. I got an idea, and that's
what launched the American Revolution.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's just silly, ken.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
So each of those representatives that would go in and vote,
were they taking a vote back at home with their
tribe or were they just decided what was best for them?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Oh, they were just you know, they were probably reflecting
the desires of the tribe.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Maybe they could be booted knowing human nature. Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
If the old gals of the tribe didn't think they
were doing a good job, they could say, no, you
don't get to be a satiem anymore. But yeah, to
call that a democracy is a hell of a stretch.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
And then the other stretch to say that's what gave
Ben Franklin the idea for forming a democracy in the colonies.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
It's trying way too hard, it really is. Yeah, Ken,
you're guilty of trying way.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
To art in the first three minutes of the show.
You're a little more excusable if that had come in
an hour eight. And by the way, the Indians had
done something similar that the Founding Fathers had fired among
the structural examples they followed happened to be. Now that
would be interesting, sure, but to act like that was
the uh, you know, what's the Latin phrase? That's the
(34:53):
moment of genesis, that is the seed of the American system.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
No, it's not. Hmmm, I'll watch more of it. See
what I think. Democracy is a terrible idea.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Speaking of history, I was told the new Netflix series
about the assassination of James Garfield is really really good,
like really good with big time actors and stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
You was that just last night? No?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
No, I hadn't, but a friend who's very very sophisticated
recommended it quite strongly.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I'll have to check that out. Maybe I'll get to
that before I get to the American Revolution.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Oh what I was it's starting to say was democracies
are a terrible idea just because the.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Mob rule is terrifying. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You have to have, you know, sober representatives who have
allegedly the good of the people in their hearts. I
think we've gotten a little off track with that, I'd
say anyway, Okay, well I'll check it out and report back.
So we do twenty hours of this show every single week.
(35:54):
There are lots of segments or lots of hours. Some
of them are so good you want to hear multiple
times and playing for your friends. So you just download
our podcasts or subscribe to it Armstrong and Getty on demand.
You'll have all those pieces coming to you on a
daily basis. Oh and head to Armstrong and Getty dot
com the superstore. Oh my gosh, people are loving the
kftc aprons and T shirts and the ruin the entire country.
(36:14):
Newsome twenty twenty eight t shirts, Armstrong and Getty dot Com.
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