The Troubleshooter 1-16-25

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yea ridd you need advice? Who you don't help? Come
running shouses as we can. Shooter's gonna help coming man.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martine.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the show. Three oh three
seven one.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Three talk three oh three seven one three h five
five Here to help you solve problems, answer questions, take complaints,
make your life a little easier. Thanks for being here everyone,
And we love taking your phone calls talking about problems.
We really do, but we like solving you and then
I like making comments of the day Today, I'm Brad
O'Brien with me from ols or O'Brien Legal Services olslaw

(00:53):
dot com and Brad does real estate law, which is
really god it is. I think you know it used
to be real estate really was like okay, once or
twice in a lifetime, you buy a house. I mean
it's so ubiquitous right now, not just with of course
owning a home, buying a home, buying property, but also

(01:14):
being a landlord, being a tenant, and you know so
many things in between, eminent domain by a state or municipality,
adverse possession by a neighbor saying this is my swath
of land, swath of land, other people saying you're encroaching
on my property or whatever. So many issues in a

(01:35):
day title insurance could be Brad rather than me trying
to speculate you're on what.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Are what are some of the main issues these days? Brother?

Speaker 5 (01:46):
Well, I help people with buying and selling residential and
commercial real estate and any kind of dispute and involving
real estate. So it runs the gambit from you know, evictions,
to mechanics, leans to.

Speaker 6 (01:59):
Just anything that can come up with owning or using
real estate.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
Now, what's the number one though? The number one call Brad,
If you had to pick one by team.

Speaker 5 (02:10):
I would say probably landlord tenant, both residential and commercial.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Okay, and tell me about the challenges landlord's face right now.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Well, on the residential side, the laws have really change
in the last couple of years in a pro tenant way,
and it's very expensive frankly for the smaller landlord because
they're going to be going to court more often, They're
going to be in court longer if there's an eviction situation,
and that's just it's just more expensive.

Speaker 6 (02:39):
There's more overhead for being a landlord.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, I mean you have to know your way around,
and and there's almost what I.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Call a forever lease provision.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
Yeah, the landlord tenant laws in Colorado are very strictly
construed in favor of the tenants and against the landlords.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
So years ago it was just the opposite. I mean,
tenants had no rights. When I first came to Colorado,
I would tell people, you know, you don't have any rights,
not even for habitability.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
That all change.

Speaker 5 (03:09):
So if a landlord makes makes mistake by charging a
late fee that's more than what the law allows, or
tries to do an eviction without falling all the steps exactly,
that could be a defect that causes them to start
over or have to pay a fine.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Okay, Now, when it comes to this forever lease, what
I mean by that is you have to have a
just cause to end it.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Is that correct, right?

Speaker 5 (03:35):
The law recently changed where someone who's been in a
rental for longer than a year has the right to
have their least renewed when it comes up for renewal,
unless the landlord has one of a few stated reasons
for not renewing, and those are the exceptions.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Now I heard this brat, I don't know if it's true.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
I heard.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
That landlords are making leases three hundred and sixty days.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Now you know that the what's the ploy there? You
can read into that.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
Yeah, because the way this new statute was drafted in
twenty twenty four, as soon as the tenant has been
in a rental for a year, then they have this
right that that that kicks in that allows them. It
gives them the right to have a renewal of their lease.
So if but if they've been there for less than
a year. So that's that's why some landlords are writing
leases just short of a year, maybe eleven months or

(04:27):
a day short of a year.

Speaker 6 (04:29):
Then they don't have that. The Tennis don't have that
right yet.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Ah, then they can write it for another three hundred
and sixty day period or whatever.

Speaker 5 (04:37):
Well, no, but once they get into the industry, Oh,
then it's more than a year. At the one year mark,
then the Tennis do have that right to have their
lease renewing.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Oh, even if it's a new lease for three hundred
and sixty days, because cumulatively has been more than a year. Right, Okay,
got it? Got it all right? Well that's interesting. Three
oh three seven to one three talks seven one, three, eight,
two five. I'm going to go to the phones right
now and we'll talk to Craig and Mark's on the phone.
We started this yesterday. Craig is just very frustrating. We

(05:06):
can't seem to shake our response. You dropped off your vehicle,
a WRAPO Kia on October sixteenth, needed a tranny. It
wasn't going into fourth gear. They put in a tranny.
Then you had a problem going in the first gear.
And you said that you never needed the tranning, but
it turns out you probably did.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
They put in.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
A new PCM. You had to pay fifteen hundred for that.
What's the bottom line here? What are you looking for
right now? You just want your truck back. What is
going on right now?

Speaker 7 (05:42):
Well, it's my car, Kia Forte. They put in one
transmission and rebuilt transmission. Then that didn't fix it. It
was stuck in fourth year. Once they put that in,
it was stuck in first year. And then you know
that was in the first two weeks.

Speaker 8 (06:00):
The car was there and all.

Speaker 7 (06:01):
Of a sudden it's been.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
Then they put in Let's just get to the point,
where did they put in the PM.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Right?

Speaker 7 (06:11):
So they finally put in a used PM and then
they put in a new PCM and that didn't work
and that's why they put in the second transmission. Then
they said, yeah, also needs a new PCM, and so
that's where we're at. And they forgot to put in
the skid play and anyways, they finished that up. So
they finished it up tuesday.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Okay, so what's the issue now?

Speaker 7 (06:37):
Well, the thing is the big picture is it's not
just my car being in the shop, but what what
I've had to go through in three months?

Speaker 4 (06:47):
So what do you But what do you have your
Do you have your vehicle back?

Speaker 7 (06:53):
No, I need to go pick it up. I wanted
to talk to you first, and.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
So what do you want now? What? What? What do
you want?

Speaker 4 (07:00):
Now we get right to the point. What do you
want now? I mean, are they charging you from was
this under warranty?

Speaker 7 (07:07):
No?

Speaker 9 (07:10):
No?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
But okay, you know he's frustrated. What do you want?
Fix it over a three month period? Right? So it's
the frustration.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Okay, But I'm going to ask the same question, what
do you want?

Speaker 7 (07:29):
Well, I don't. I've lost over twenty thousand dollars in
pay because of this, because of them being incompetent.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Okay, how much did you pay for all the repairs?

Speaker 7 (07:43):
The total right now is forty five hundred minus the
fifteen hundred that I've already paid. So I owed them
three thousand and six dollars and change.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
But the whole bill was forty The whole bill was
forty five hundred. Yes, okay, I'm going to get give
you some straight upfront news based on forty five years
of experience. You're not going to get consequential damages from them.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
You're just not.

Speaker 9 (08:14):
Now.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
They can do a they can do a good will
for something or other, but Mark tell it like it
is marketing.

Speaker 10 (08:20):
I've left so many messages with that service manager now
it's crazy. So when he goes down there, before you pay,
you got to talk to the service manager.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
The only real issue I see that he might have.

Speaker 10 (08:32):
I don't want to say a leg to stand on
because I actually agree with the guy. I can't believe
one of deal in Doug's stores did him this way.
But the bottom line is I don't understand why he's
paying for the ECM or PCM, whichever it's called.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
That part drives me insane. It didn't do anything.

Speaker 10 (08:49):
They put a bad one in put the ECM in,
thinking it's that that didn't do anything. They replaced the transmission.
Vehicle works fine. Now evidently it was a transmission. I mean,
unless they're going to are you would need it both.
But that seems kind of strange. But it's possible.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
How much of the you have it, how much of
the repair, how much of the repair cost. How much
of the repair cost is the PCM. Okay, so I
kind of see where you're going. Would you be satisfied
if they did not charge for the PCM?

Speaker 7 (09:26):
Oh, that would be That'd be great.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Okay, it's mark is called the mark. I'm going to call.
I'm going to make another call on break.

Speaker 10 (09:38):
I'm going to see if I can't get with the
general manager. You know, I got the service manager's name
from somebody inside the organization that said the guy was
a decent guy. But when he doesn't call back after
all these things, I got to disagree with our friend.
So I'm going to try to reach out to the
GM over there. So I'll do that on break.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Okay. A couple things, Okay, A couple things. I want
to mention.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
I'm taking emails from people with all kinds of questions
about their house. Specifically, they're mechanical, their HVAC, their water heaters,
they're everything like that, plumbing, heating, cooling, electric trains. Let
me tell you why, because from time to time people
call with simple questions and they don't want to hang

(10:26):
on the phone, and they just have simple questions and
we will answer them. Okay, we'll answer every one of them,
and I'll even text you back. Now you can text
me any questions to do with your home, any questions
at seven four seven.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Nine fifty two eighty.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
Now, as you know, that's my personal text, and I
put these things away seven four seven nine nine nine
fifty two eighty. Okay, think of an airplane seven four
to seven that I love nine nine nine as close
as perfection you can get, and fifty to eighty for
the mile high city seven four seven nine nine.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Now listen.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
In addition to that, well, any questions okay on on
the house and we will answer them, so you don't
have to be on hold or anything for just simple questions.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Also, we have a question for Brad O'Brien. I'm gonna
let him think about it during the break. Keith, what
is the question.

Speaker 11 (11:23):
Is there a Hey, Tom, is there a reset?

Speaker 12 (11:27):
Yes?

Speaker 11 (11:27):
If you have a tenant in your apartment, is there
a reset time if you moved them out of three
hundred and sixty days? Could you say, well, you can
come back in six months or a year, But I'm
not going to rent you until then because I'm going
to preserve my my property rights.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Okay, hold on, we'll talk about that coming up. I'm
Tom Martine three three seven one three eight two five five.
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Speaker 3 (11:55):
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(12:28):
Tom Martino here three oh three seven one three talks
seven one three eight two five five. So this is
an interesting question Keith has. So I'm going to bring
up Brad O'Brien as well, Keith, go ahead, you you
you brought up a scenario because here's what Brad said. Originally,
if you are there less than a year, you don't

(12:49):
have If you have a tenant there less than a year,
you don't have to give a just cause to end
the lease. It's not automatically renewable in absence of a
just cause. But once you do renew it, even if
it was three hundred and sixty days, and you renew
it again for three sixty you are going to go
over the one year and then will be subject to

(13:11):
just cause after that.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
What you're saying is something else.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
What if you have a three hundred and sixty eight
day or sixty two day lease and then cease the lease,
have some kind of a brief respite in between, and
then revive the lease.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Is that what you're.

Speaker 11 (13:31):
Saying, Yes, sir, just just as a way to get
around that law and to maintain your personal property rights.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Okay, Brad, Well, is that valid?

Speaker 10 (13:43):
I mean, can you use that you built that loophole,
Brad and do a lease.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Well, I don't even know how you're going to get
to do it.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
I don't know how you're going to get a tenant
to do You're gonna ask the tenant after three hundred
and fifty or at three hundred and sixty days to
move out for thirty days?

Speaker 11 (14:01):
Well, my thought would be, would there be a six
month like if you waited six months, could you Yeah?

Speaker 3 (14:07):
No, I know, I know that's a good question, Brad.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
Is there a time that they wait and reinstitute a
lease so they can claim you haven't been there more
than a year?

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Well, this new statue does not get into how many
days it takes to the of the tenant being out
of there and then coming back.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
To establish a new tenancy.

Speaker 5 (14:28):
It's really a question of fact of is there a
new and different tendency from the tendancy that was there
for the first year.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
And that's not really written into the law.

Speaker 6 (14:37):
No, it's a question of fact.

Speaker 13 (14:38):
You know.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
It doesn't say if you move out for thirty days
and come back you start over.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
It doesn't. But it doesn't say you don't start over either.

Speaker 13 (14:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:45):
I think you probably could establish a new tenancy if
there's a thirty day break in the middle, if they
actually moved out. Now, if they didn't move out, I
don't think you're going to find any loopholes to this statue.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
What if you had the husband and wife team and
the first three sixty is the husband and the second
three sixty is the wife.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
That's just a question of fact that that's really you'd
have to convince judge that it was a new and
different tendancy. But you know, you'd be looking at who
was on the lease originally, was the second spouse there
for the first year. You know, it was a commonality
among the tenants.

Speaker 13 (15:18):
I understand that.

Speaker 11 (15:19):
Of course, if you were to move somebody out after
a year and say, hey, you can come back in
thirty days, I'll write you up a new lease.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Nobody's going to do that.

Speaker 11 (15:26):
It's impractical for the ten but the end probably for
the landlord. But I'm just trying to trying to come
up with waite.

Speaker 10 (15:34):
But wait a minute, it is at all if you
did do a lease for three hundred and sixty two
days or whatever it is, at least when when the
thirty days comes up to the end of that lease,
you could make a decision, right Brad, if you want
to keep these people in your apartment.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
I mean, there's is there anything wrong with that?

Speaker 5 (15:55):
Well, this news statute requires a ninety day notice prior
to not really doing someone.

Speaker 10 (16:00):
Okay, that's fine, then you still have nine months dealing
with leep.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Hold on, Mark, hold on, let them clarify.

Speaker 14 (16:06):
Go ahead.

Speaker 5 (16:06):
Actually, the ninety days does not apply to someone in
the first year. So probably if the lease says a
decision has to be made thirty days in advance of
the of the of the end of the first year,
you can get that thirty day notice. But once they're
into the second year, then there has to be this
ninety day notice of non renewal.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
So even if it was one year, if you give
a thirty day notice, it's not a just cause.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
You don't have to make it three hundred and sixty days,
do you.

Speaker 6 (16:33):
If you have a just cause, then you then you
give a ninety day notice.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Okay, I'm talking about very first year of tenancy. Yep,
you're in the eleventh month. You let them know you're
not renewing. Doesn't have to be a just cause they
haven't been there a year.

Speaker 5 (16:46):
No, because that just cause doesn't apply to a tenant
who's been there for less than a year.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
So therefore there's no reason to write the lease less
than a year, is there?

Speaker 5 (16:53):
Well, yes, because it's this one day problem that where okay,
the statute is ambiguous, where they don't have the right
until that three hundred and sixty fifth day, but the first,
the least, the one year lease does get the three
hundred and sixty Okay, I got the last day the
right kicks in.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
So on the very last day, the right kicks in. Okay.
So therefore, if you want at least.

Speaker 11 (17:13):
If tom, what if you if you give them, if
you give them that notice and you say, okay, your
lease will end on this day, which would be the
three hundred and sixty fourth day, let's say, just to
cut it close, and the tenant says I can't be
out there and they end up staying that day. Are
they now grandfathered in and say you you now have

(17:35):
to renew my lease and then I have to go
on a victor.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
That's a good point.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
Well, the statue does not get into that question, and
there's no case law on this today.

Speaker 6 (17:46):
So I would argue that no.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Proper notice, the tendency was terminated because the written notice
was given ahead of time that it was was going
to terminate, and it did terminate.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
So so or you could go with the sterra turnkey
and do rentals in a state that isn't crazy.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yep, that's very good point.

Speaker 10 (18:08):
This is I know Brad's gonna think this is silly,
but the way that's written, honestly, and I'm not kidding,
if it's leap year is at three hundred and sixty
six days.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
The statute point.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
I believe, is written in terms of one year, not
three hundred and sixty five days.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
So yeah, so it would leaves the calendar year. Yeah,
it's a calendar year. So if it is a year
where February has more days, it would have more days.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
If it's less, it would be less. You know, all,
what's going to do?

Speaker 10 (18:43):
And I said this and I'm not trying to get political,
but honestly, I don't even know what mark.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, people love when you do go ahead, it's gonna do.

Speaker 10 (18:51):
It's gonna do nothing but raise prices. Ultimately, it costs
more for landlords who would want to own property in
a state where you can't terminate a lease.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
The whole thing of having.

Speaker 10 (19:02):
A lease is that's why we agree to something for
a year, then it's done. How dare they come in
and do something so stupid? Well, I'll tell you why
this came about.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
There have been a lot of people who have been
in a place five or six or seven years.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Not just one, and it's their home, and.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
They're even willing to pay reasonable rent increases and all that,
and they just are moved out and because of something
and they feel it's not just Now, that's just the
way I'm talking about the spirit. I'm not saying it's
a good or bad reason. That's the spirit of the law.

Speaker 10 (19:40):
If you look at you thing, man, it take that
person you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
How about if I go, oh, wow, that.

Speaker 10 (19:47):
Area in Washington Park or wherever's really coming along, I
want to go ahead and put one hundred grand into
this house and rent it out for triple What I am?

Speaker 3 (19:55):
I can't even do that?

Speaker 6 (19:58):
Well, no, that just one of the exceptionally major renovation is.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
A major renovation is an exception?

Speaker 4 (20:03):
What about raising rents because that's okay, Look, okay, Now,
let's say there's a major fire somewhere in the state
or in the city, or let's say something changed and
the housing market is such that rents you could get
way more rent Are you restricted like in communists or Moscow?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Are you restricted on what you can raise your rent. Well,
there's gouging rights.

Speaker 5 (20:32):
Well, hold on, Mark, Colorado, a landlord can raise a
residential rental rate once every twelve months on rolling basis.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
But how much?

Speaker 5 (20:41):
Uh, well, presumably it's market somewhere, I mean the market.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Is there a law that says you can't raise it
too much?

Speaker 6 (20:47):
Well?

Speaker 5 (20:47):
Yes, this, this new statue says that the landlord cannot
raise the rent in the punitive way in order to
circumvent these protections that have been in.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
And what is it? What was he? What is that though?
Is there a percent?

Speaker 6 (20:59):
That's a question that.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Okay, So what Mark said it's like an anti gouging thing.

Speaker 10 (21:04):
Well, no, what I'm saying is in Colorado we have
laws if there's a natural disaster proclaim, just like California
and the kit Mark.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Yeah, I just Mark, I just gave that as an example.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
But I'm just saying, I'm just saying in general, go ahead, man.

Speaker 15 (21:21):
Tom, I'd like to add something that also, if you
move a tenant out for remodeling, then the laws states
that you are required to give them first writer refusal
to come.

Speaker 8 (21:32):
Back, so that.

Speaker 11 (21:36):
You don't have that you don't it's not a loophole.
Because you are supposed to give that tenant the first
writer's usual to come back to move back in after remodeling. Now,
if you want to raise the prices.

Speaker 9 (21:46):
That's different.

Speaker 11 (21:46):
That's one thing, But you still have to give that
tenant the first writer's fusal. I mean, it's a complete
it's a complete and utter usurpation of homeowner rights and
property rights in the state. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
So you know what people voted for that, dude, I.

Speaker 7 (22:06):
Know, I know.

Speaker 11 (22:07):
That's what I don't understand is people are too stupid
to realize that everything they vote for has consequences, but
they don't seem to They don't seem to care, because
all they care about is what suits me.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Right now, well, actually it's not even that. Well I've
said this before, and I think Mark even agreed with me.
It is incredible the amount of pain, now I'm not
talking about benefit, the amount of pain that someone will
endure to be politically correct. It's almost like they're willing

(22:40):
to endure it just because they Yeah.

Speaker 10 (22:43):
But again, I mean that it does get to a point,
and I'll give you an idea of Denver. In my opinion,
Denver is really getting to that point quick. You realize
we had another stabbing last night around.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Mark the point mark you mean the point where the
pendulum will swing the other way. Yes, okay, all right,
we got to take a break.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
I'm Tom Martino. Hold on quick.

Speaker 10 (23:06):
It could be for some people, it might be economics.
For some people, it might be crime. When you live
in a neighborhood where randoms are walking around stabbing people.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
There's an issue. Mark is saying, and I know what
he's saying.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
There are triggers that will jult you out of your
current political standing.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
If you heard enough.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
There are I say, yeah, there are, but they have
to be major because look at the pain that Californians
endure for there for there, I'm.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Just gonna say, for that.

Speaker 10 (23:40):
But this fire is gonna wake them up. You think
Newsom's gonna get re elected after this? How about that mayor?
I'll be shocked if she's not tossed out on her ass.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Okay, we got more coming up. I'm Tom Martino. Now
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Tin know plumbers charge six eight grand for this whole
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(25:04):
you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com
to list your home with Remax Alliance three all three
nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
What's the reality?

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Hi Tom Martine here, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Three oh three seven to one three Talks seven one
three eight two five to five.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
You know, real estate's a big topic. It's a hot topic.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
Brad O'Brien. You know we have a Vestera turnkey I
talk about now. I'm not trying to get you to
do anything except weigh in on issues. It's not a
pooled investment, by the way. The reason I say that
is in real you know, since I've had and I
opened my financial advisory firm, you can't do pooled investments

(25:49):
without calling it a security, and you have to have
all kinds of disclosures and safety measure and all that.
But when you do what VESTERAA is doing, and I'm
not saying they're doing it to get around securities, I'm
just saying that it's not a security period just like
an annuity is not a security, a fixed index annuity
that Kiano does and what Barry Miller does with Vestera
is not a security.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
What he does is he hooks people up with.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
The properties and they own the property, they have a
loan on the property, they have money in the property.
He finds markets where he finds good His research shows
people where there's good appreciation, It shows them where there's
good rents, and then he tells them when to sell
and he counsels them. So he makes his money on

(26:34):
commissions going in and coming out, but you're not even
obligated to use.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Them, but he hopes you do, and usually they do.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
And then he hooks up a management company and he
doesn't overcharge or mark up the management services. You work
directly with these top notch management companies. And then he
even has a service I think it's an extra two
hundred bucks a year or something where they take all
of your daily phone calls in if there are any,
and make decisions for you and help you make decisions. Now,

(27:03):
being a landlord, he says, it's being a landlord without
the conventional hassles and risks.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Overall.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
What do you I'm not asking for endorsement, I'm asking
like as a as a model.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
What do you think I mean? Have you heard me
advertise that. What do you think of that concept?

Speaker 5 (27:21):
Well, I think a lot of landlords at some point,
especially smaller landlords, do want to get out of the
business and out of the day to day management. They
don't want to fix in toilets or even hiring people
to fix.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Toilet especially in outside of the state markets.

Speaker 6 (27:33):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
So, so some landlords would like a way to stay
in the real estate investment game, and but let somebody
else do the daily work. And so that means hiring
so either buying a small piece of a real estate
investment or hiring a property management company to manage for them.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, so I like the concept personally, I do.

Speaker 16 (27:54):
Tom, Yeah, I do, And I know I've talked Yeah, yeah,
And I talked to BO about investing in general Bo
and I, and it's a good system.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Now, some people don't want to come up with a minimum.
I think it's around sixty five grand. So I've been
putting together in my I'm putting together to my investment company,
my financial management company, or my advisement company, smaller LLCs
that will be probably a security. We have to do

(28:29):
it in a certain way where people are chipping in,
and so instead of one person owning one property, we
have a small LLC that owns each property For people
who want to do that, but they don't want to
take out the big chunk. They just want to take
out They just want to be part of one. Of course,
you're not going to make as much as if you
did it all by yourself, but you don't have as
much risk either. But the concept I think is brilliant.

(28:52):
I think it's brilliant, and I do now. I think
fixed indextinuities have a place, you know, I even think,
by the way, variable annuities have a place. That's what
I love about all of the knowledge and the education
I've gotten in the financial world, because I used to

(29:12):
think variable annuities are evil. Then I looked into them.
Now I'm not, by the way, telling you to go
out and get one. I'm not telling you that. But
what I like about him is you get to invest
in a pool of money that earns tax free. It's
tax deferred actually when you start, but you get to
play with this fund, and it's variable. You make what

(29:33):
you make, you lose what you lose. There are some
protections you can put in for the floor and for
the ceiling, but you can just have a little pot
of money that you invest and it grows tax deferred,
no reporting every year, and what you made, and then
when you start drawing it, you turn it into a

(29:53):
regular annuity. Again I'm not saying it's the best thing.
Then there's the fixed index annuity, where it's again garantee growth.
You don't get the growth of the market but you
don't get the losses either. You get a sustained growth
and the missed opportunity. With us, the only risk to
a fixed indextinuity is the lack of upside. If you're

(30:15):
doing better on your own or in a portfolio, you
may not want to rest it right away. That's why
some people do the regular investing through their lives, and
as they get toward retirement they take a lump sum
and do an annuity immediately. So there's all different ways
to do stuff like that. Catherine, what is your question?

Speaker 17 (30:38):
I am an owner of a condo in Westminster and
recently there has been a complaint made against me, and
so I found out from the HOA manager and I
asked him to be able to see it, but he
says that this is not his to share. And at

(31:01):
the same time he is making references about something about
me being loud and not cooperating with the police.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
So it like, okay, you hold on, I will come
right back to you. No, No, you hang on, Catherine,
We're gonna come right back to I promise. Three O
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(31:35):
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Speaker 3 (31:37):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance Paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Lions three all
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hi Tom Martine,

(32:10):
your troubleshooter three oh three seven one three talk three
oh three seven one three eight two five five Catherine,
She said there was a complaint lodge against her at
the HOA. Did they say it was from another tenant
or another resident? Yes, okay, And they didn't say what

(32:31):
it was about. It was about being Did they tell
you what the complaint was?

Speaker 17 (32:37):
They told me that I am supposed to reduce my
level of noise and stop becoming a nuisance to my neighbors.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Oh do you think you make noise?

Speaker 17 (32:50):
I don't think so. Like I talked with all of
my neighbors except for the ones upstairs, and I used
to talk with them as well until some changes have happened.
But I after that happened, after the complaint, I talked
to my neighbor through the wall and I was like, Hey,
here's what happened. If you hear anything from my apartment,

(33:11):
please let me know, because like, if you hear it
through the wall, and if I just turn it down,
then definitely somebody above me through the floor will not
hear anything.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
But let me let me.

Speaker 4 (33:22):
Ask you a couple of things. Let me ask you.
I want to hear your problem. Go ahead, what did
you say? Your problem is? What?

Speaker 17 (33:29):
So I would like to know exactly what was written
in the complaint because when I asked the HI manager who, and.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
You want to know that so you can address it.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Exactly.

Speaker 17 (33:41):
I want to know because he mentioned something about me
not collaborating with the police, and it's like.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
What have you ever? Have you ever talked?

Speaker 4 (33:48):
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calls coming up. Go with a sure thing Denvers best Roofer,
Excel roofing dot com.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Three leave time for an insurance check up free, no obligation.
In comparison, call Compass Insurance. Pay too much your coverage
at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh
three seven seven to one help. You'll think you're his
only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate
Man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance.

(34:20):
Three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, rip.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
News.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Need advis who.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
You don't have?

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Come, run in just as fast as you can. Shooter's
gonna help.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Come man, This is the Troubleshooter Show. Now, Tom Martine, Hi.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Tom Martino here, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Three oh three seven one three talk seven one three
eight two five five.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
How are you doing? What can we do for you?

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Let me I know we are here to solve problems
and answer questions and take complaints and make your life
easier and just fight for truth justice in the American way.
So Brad O'Brien is with us, and I'll just go
right back to that shot.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
He is with us.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
He's a real estate attorney, but he knows a lot
about hua's and condominiums and all that. And so because
that's the part of real estate right so olslaw dot com.
Brad O'Brien, I'll give out a number later. And Catherine
says she had a complaint filed against her for being noisy.
She doesn't know specifically what the complaint said, but they
said she wasn't cooperating with police and she was noisy. So, Catherine,

(35:39):
I want to ask a few questions first and then
Brad does.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Want to weigh in on this on your rights.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
So, Catherine, do you never ever encountered the police regarding
a complaint for noise?

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Ever?

Speaker 17 (35:52):
I did want about a year?

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Okay, well during that how long ago? Catherine? Catherine, about
a year ago? And what was what was it like?
What did they say?

Speaker 17 (36:04):
So they came in and they told me I was
too noisy At the time I was. I know that
I had a huge role with my parents and I
was listening to music. Afterwards, I was stressed. I did
not realize. So they came in. They told me that
I turned it down. Everything is fine.

Speaker 13 (36:25):
They left.

Speaker 17 (36:26):
They were understanding too, like the police was, so I thought, and.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
You never and you never argued with them. You never
argued with them.

Speaker 17 (36:35):
No, Like I know I was loud, I did not
realize then.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Did you hear anything since then about noise?

Speaker 17 (36:45):
Not until this last complaint and that was from the HOA.
I never heard from the police.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Okay, And when did the one come in from the
h u A.

Speaker 17 (37:06):
Still, let me just just double check. That was in November,
end of November last year.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
And what has been doing? What? What?

Speaker 4 (37:14):
What is the consequence of this complaint? In other words,
what did they say you're fined? Did they say you're
still doing it? I mean, what if you got this
complaint in November, why are you calling me today?

Speaker 17 (37:28):
Because like there was no consequences. But it worries me,
Like I don't I was trying to figure out how
to get the complaint itself, how to look at it.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
Okay, so you're but but but basically since that, let
me get this straight. Since that notice, nothing else has happened.

Speaker 17 (37:51):
Nothing, nothing whatsoever. Okay, we just exchanged it.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Okay, that's good. H Well, that's good. That's good. That's good. Okay,
I would drop it. But but you worried because you
don't want to duplicate it.

Speaker 17 (38:06):
No, no, no, no, no. It worries me that they
are talking about the police. It's like I haven't done anything,
and this sounds like okurious accusation.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Okay, well, but nothing came of it. Nothing came of it.

Speaker 18 (38:23):
They didn't call the police again, Catherine, I would just
just let it go and make sure you keep your
radio over.

Speaker 4 (38:30):
Brad O'Brien down, Okay, let's weigh in with Brad O'Brien,
attorney at law.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
Hold on, Brad, Yeah, I think a HOA unit owner
is entitled to procedural due process if they're going to
be facing a fine by the HUA.

Speaker 6 (38:43):
But so that would include.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
A notice of violation in writing, and also to know
the facts of the complaint that was made against them.

Speaker 6 (38:51):
I don't believe that the KaiA Wa the Hoa statute.

Speaker 5 (38:54):
Gives you the right to see the actual complaint that
the other person made.

Speaker 6 (38:57):
But I think you should be able to know the
facts of.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
That, Okay, even now with just a notice.

Speaker 6 (39:03):
No not now, there's no controversy.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Right now, there's no controversy.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
So but unless they were taking action on it, then
you could know the details. But the details wouldn't be
who did it. The details would be the details might
have a few dates and specifics, but right now, because
it was simply a notice, but right now because it
was simply a notice.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Catherine, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
Yeah, there's gonna be a hearing on a noise complaint.
That's when she would have these discovery rights.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
Okay, I mean ken, Okay, Yeah, Going in.

Speaker 17 (39:43):
The future, if I have another complaint, what are my rights?

Speaker 13 (39:49):
Like?

Speaker 17 (39:50):
What where can I go if the HOA manager tells
me that he is not going to give me any
details about the complaints? Where can I go to get
that from?

Speaker 10 (40:01):
But if he's but if the manager is not doing
anything about it, what's different?

Speaker 17 (40:06):
Yes, yes, I need, I know, I know. But if
in the future, if something happens, I hope it won't,
I will make sure that I'm quiet and everything. But like,
I don't know what how to defend myself. I basically
I waited for so long because I feel powerless. I
feel like I don't know where to go. I don't

(40:27):
know who to ask about stuff like this. I read
the hol rules and regulations that we have for our
for our condo complex, but it doesn't specify what is
the course of action that the owner can take when
there is a complaint against them. It does say that

(40:47):
I have I believe it was like twelve days or
fifteen days to make a response, but I did not.
I that window has tasted already. But I would like
to know in the future if there is a complaint
against me or any of my friends who own or anything,
what can we do, Where can we find out about

(41:08):
the specifics?

Speaker 3 (41:09):
And is it only but that's going to be governed
if it's just a complaint.

Speaker 10 (41:15):
I still don't understand if they're not trying to take
any action. Who cares if someone complains, because I think
we should take a look at this letter.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
But they did not.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
And when at such time, at such time that they
take action is when you can ask for specifics, but
you're not going to find out who's doing it.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
I mean, I think you're you know what, Catherine, how
old are you right now? I'm just curious how old
are you?

Speaker 17 (41:43):
I'm thirty five?

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Oh, you're young? Young? Young? Okay, Okay. I think that
are people around you older.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Some of them.

Speaker 17 (41:56):
Some of them aren't the neighbors above me who started
the whole thing there about my age?

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
What I'm thinking is there could be there are people
sometimes that just lay low and look for problems.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
You know, And it depends sometimes when.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
There's if somebody, if somebody's much younger, or you know,
I mean, but sometimes that happens. But I don't get
the sense that's happening. You only had one complaints that
you've been there.

Speaker 17 (42:23):
Yeah that's true. Yeah, no, so don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
I would go about mcatherine.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
I think you're you're letting it take up too much
real estate right now in your brain.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
I mean, I really do.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
If it becomes a habit and these keep coming, if
there's a consequence.

Speaker 19 (42:40):
Then I heard something that Catherine said that's kind of concerning.
She said this letter she got a few months ago.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
It was in November.

Speaker 19 (42:48):
Yeah, gave her twelve days to respond to something.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Was there something that wanted to response?

Speaker 17 (42:56):
He said that the a joint manager said that I
have twelve days. I had twelve days to respond to
the complaint against me.

Speaker 19 (43:10):
Well complete, so multiple complaints.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
No the complaint because she said complaints there one.

Speaker 17 (43:16):
The one that's the one that they made about the
no one.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
So there's only been one. Yes, there has been one.
God I turned. I'd say they're too loud.

Speaker 10 (43:28):
I mean, just do it. Just go say hey, my
neighbors are being too loud. So I've gotten a letter.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
I got a letter from or an email from my
Hua saying and there was a little picture in there
saying that my my green garbage.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Can you know the one with the lid on? It
can be seen from the street.

Speaker 4 (43:46):
You know, now, as you're walking behind the sidewalk, if
you stop, literally, there's one spot two feet two feet
area that if you're in that two feet area and.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
You peek behind my gate, the metal gate, you can see.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
The corner of that. Can you really can? So I said,
I noted, and I moved it. Thank you for letting
me know now what I would say, Katherine, I would
have Did you respond.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
To them back then?

Speaker 17 (44:17):
No? I wanted to find out first what the complaint.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
Well now it's way late, it's way more. Yeah, well
it's too late now.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
So she knew what the complaint to leave it alone.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
I'd leave it alone, I just Catherine, I really would,
Honest to god, I don't think they're out for you.
I don't think they're out to get you. I think
you know, you might have had a period in there
where you were noisy and upset. It's done, it's over.
Forget it. If you get another complaint. What I would
say is this. Here's what I would say. This is
the second complaint I've gotten, and I want to cooperate

(44:50):
in every way possible. If I could have more specifics,
it could help me. Was it music? Was it walking?
Was it talking? Just help me get this rectified. People
like when you do that, they'll tell you. They'll say, Okay,
I mean you know what I'm saying. As opposed to
I demand details. I want to know who, I want
to know what I want to I would just if

(45:12):
you get it again, I promise you respond that way, like,
this is the second complaint I've gotten, and I'm curious
what I can do to help. If I had details,
it would help me rectify the situation. So you're asking
for information in a positive way. Was it walking talking?
Was it music? Because one time, years ago, I had

(45:36):
a penthouse apartment and excuse me, condo over at Landmark
storing my transition many years ago, and my kids would
come and stay with me, and these are rock solid units.
But I got a complain and they were very specific
running you know, pounty on the floors, and I knew it.

(45:57):
I knew it was when the kids come. So I said, oh,
I'm I'm very sorry. It's when my kids are here,
I'll make sure I address it. Because they were hardwood floors,
and they said, it's sometimes better if you have rugs
or whatever. But you just I don't think people are
out to get people. I really don't. I think it's
few and far between them. Yeah, because it's a congruent
with this topic. When Susanna and I first moved here,

(46:20):
we were in an apartment called Pebble Creek over in
Littleton or Lakewood, I forget which one. And the people
above us or I'm sorry, the people below us started
complaining because we both worked till seven or eight o'clock
at night, and we would do laundry at night, and
they didn't like the washer.

Speaker 10 (46:37):
They would complain that we were walking around we were
just too loud. They literally even called the cops on
us a couple times. Okay, so guess what she does.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Why?

Speaker 10 (46:48):
The woman has a baby, the most colicky child I've
ever heard in my life. So I would record her
kids screaming all night, and I called the cops on
her about twenty times. And that's I won the war.
She started the battle. I won the war. Oh Son
that's so big of you.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Thank you.

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(48:15):
real estate Man dot com to list your home with
Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Hi Tom Martino, you're troubleshooter three all three seven one
three talk three oh three seven one three eight two
five five.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Okay, So.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
We are discussing all kinds of stuff, but part of
its real estate, which a man, real estate enters into
so many areas of law, I'm gonna ask something silly,
It's not silly, I'm gonna ask it.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Real estate was never an area of law that really
had a lot of a not really, I.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
Mean like it does now because because now you people
don't stand houses their whole lives anymore. I mean, you know,
three to five years, sometimes seven years. Well landlartenant, uhtenant
totally different.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
We're not not a big thing historically, but uh, when
you're buying or selling property, or especially buying property, you
want to understand that the seller has good title to
what they're selling you. And so that's that's the core
thing that a real estate attorney helps you with, is
reviewing title and making sure you get what you think
you're buying.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
I think people misunderstand title insurance.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
And correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Title insurance says mister customer of ours, We're going to
search the property you're buying, and we're going to see
if there's anything recorded against the title or any dangers
to the title that could encroach upon your ownership or
diminish your ownership. If we find them, we're going to

(50:06):
list them, and then we're going to ensure that.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
We did an accurate search.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
So if something comes up that we missed, that is
the title insurance. It is not part of the stuff
they found and it is not part of something that
was not reported or recorded.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (50:29):
That is correct.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
Title insurance policies very limited. Yeah, they don't give you
the full history of the title back to patent, you know,
when it was opened by the federal government. That would
be called an abstract right only in some a few
jurisdictions across the country, like Oklahoma or perhaps eastern County
of Colorado.

Speaker 6 (50:49):
Would you actually do.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
Still do an abstract or title the shows every single
owner in all of its history. Now, title companies just
give you that stated history of what's relevant now on
the title of a property, and if they miss something
that causes title to be unmerchantable so not good title,
then that's what they're insuring against.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
But only if they only if they did not find it.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Right, if they disclosed it and put it on the
exceptions list, then you don't have Then it's out there,
it's disclosed, and you say you have title.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
Insurance for Yeah, you don't have title insurance for anything
they list. Now, here's always been the argument with title insurance.
We missed it, but it wasn't there. It wasn't anywhere
in cyberspace, it wasn't anywhere, so we're not ensuring it.

Speaker 6 (51:37):
Yeah, there are. Title policies have many exceptions, that's right.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
And one of them is if it's not of record,
and I say, well, I can do a surge. In
other words, so Brad, what could happen that was not
of record that they must ensure?

Speaker 3 (51:53):
I don't think they have to.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
Well, for example, a mechanics lean can actually work backwards
in time and can be recorded after a closing, and
it can actually have a retroactive effect to before the closing.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
So would that be covered, Yes, it would, It really would.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
So if it wasn't recorded at time of closing, so they.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Didn't, they didn't list it, they.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
Could say the customer could say you better ensure me,
and the title insurance company can't say, well, there was
no way for us to know.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
You know, some title policies insured against mechanics laens that
others don't. And it's important to have an attorney review
the title commitment that you're receiving.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Have you seen good and bad commitments?

Speaker 5 (52:34):
Yes, well, I've seen things on an exceptions list of
a title policy that you should not accept. But title
insurance companies will put those things on the exceptions list
that they're not going to ensure for, and many buyers
just go along with it, but they don't know that
they shouldn't access.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
So let's talk about coming up that retroactivity.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
But I want to take James first. James, what's going on? James?
What's happening? Brother? Yes? I Ken, James.

Speaker 7 (53:04):
Okay.

Speaker 13 (53:04):
So I'm down here in Colorado Springs and in May
I was in a traffic accident on I twenty five.
I got a ticket from the state patrol and I
didn't think I deserved the ticket. So I showed up
to court and said, I don't think I'm guilty of that,
and he said it for a hearing.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
What were you?

Speaker 14 (53:23):
What?

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Wait?

Speaker 4 (53:24):
Let me ask you a quick question bro a quick question.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
What was the ticket for.

Speaker 13 (53:29):
Following too closely?

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Okay, go ahead, keep going.

Speaker 13 (53:34):
Yeah, my my questions really aren't really related to the
traffic ticket, but more Okay, lawyer that I hired to
defend me, so I should can't keep going the first
hearing and I pled not guilty, and they set it
for a hearing. I show up for the hearing and

(53:56):
the State Patrol is there and I said, well, I'm
going to get a lawyer. So they re said it
and another month and a.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Half, Oh say so wait, wait, wait, so you hired
the attorney after you went alone?

Speaker 13 (54:10):
Correct, after my first appearance, I told god it Yeah,
so I got a lawyer to iaid the fee. I
met with the lawyer for about twenty minutes and he said, oh,
this sounds easy. I'm glad to do it. I paid
the fee.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
How much?

Speaker 14 (54:29):
Three thousand?

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Okay, so I paid.

Speaker 13 (54:33):
I paid that I met him.

Speaker 20 (54:35):
He said, why was it so?

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Why was it so important to you to fight this?
I'm just curious.

Speaker 13 (54:40):
Well, for a couple of things. One, I didn't do
what I was alleged to have done, and the state
Patrol at the time of the accident told me that
he was going to go to the hospital and possibly
give the guy that I maintained was the cause of
an accident. The state patrol said he was going to
the hospital and might give him a ticket.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
So I kind of thought, he wa, wait, let me
ask you something, James, James James, I need to ask something.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Did that guy.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
In what way did you feel that guy caused the accident?

Speaker 13 (55:14):
His hood came up on his jeet because it wasn't
latched on I twenty five, he slammed on.

Speaker 14 (55:21):
Oh behind him stand on his her brakes and I
smacked into the rear of her because I just changed
into the right lane and they were or stopping.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
So I James James, that plea wait.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
So that police officer didn't take that into consideration, for
God's sakes.

Speaker 13 (55:41):
Well he did, and he even said that our stories matched,
meaning the ladies in mine and my story was is
that he stopped in the lane, not on the shoulder.
She stopped behind him. I hit her and she hit him,
and he was going to the After he gave me
a ticket, I said, hey, wait, why I didn't cause

(56:04):
the accident? The guys whose hood came up caused the accident,
He said, Yeah, No, I'm gonna go to the hokit.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
You're right, You're right. You hold on, James, I'm with you.
Hang on. I will come right back.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
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sense to me on that eight eight eight Heating dot
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Put him to the challenge. Eight eight eight Heating dot.

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Speaker 3 (56:39):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
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(57:07):
music I demand music.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
I'm Tom Martinez.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
You're a troubleshooter, James, I'd be very now tell me so.
I'd be pissed off at being accused of this, But
now how do we get to the problem about the attorney.

Speaker 13 (57:24):
Yeah, so so I hired the attorney. He founded real
promising and I thought, well, this is great.

Speaker 20 (57:30):
He knows what he's doing.

Speaker 13 (57:31):
He's going to represent him well, and it seems like
an easy case to him. So the date that that
I was secondly given, he didn't show up because he
was in trial. And I told the judge, well, he's
in trial. And the state patrol said, well, you said

(57:54):
you were going to have a lawyer. I said no,
I said, I was getting on.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
He did not enter a delay or did not ask
for a continuance.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
He just didn't show.

Speaker 13 (58:04):
Up, correct, And he did that?

Speaker 3 (58:09):
No? No, no, yes, wait wait wait wait wait?

Speaker 4 (58:14):
But did he see what attorneys usually do once they're
representing you, They enter a continuance. Isn't that right, Brad?
I mean, isn't that up to the attorney? You know,
Brad's an attorney. But if you were going to go
to if you have a hearing, said and you can't
make it, you don't leave it to the client to
show up and say my attorney couldn't make it.

Speaker 6 (58:35):
No, an attorney would definitely ask for a continuance.

Speaker 13 (58:38):
Okay, so keep going, and that's that's exactly what happened.
So I showed up to court and I told him
I was getting there, so you.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
Had no idea. You had no idea this guy wasn't
going to be.

Speaker 13 (58:50):
There, correct. So we said it for a second court date,
and that would have been the eighteenth of November, and
sure enough, I'm there, I'm prepared, and I hadn't talked
to the attorney. I left him a couple of messages
that we should get together and talk about it. He

(59:11):
never responded, and then he didn't show up for our
trial date, which was eighteen November. So the judge told me,
he said, basically, lawyer or not pointing his finger at me,
you need to be ready next time, and he said
it for sixteen December. So between eighteen November and sixteen December,

(59:33):
I kind of realized I might not be able to
count on the attorney, so I went ahead and paid
another eight hundred and fifty dollars to the State Patrol
for bodycamp, dash camp and all the generated documents. So
then the sixteenth of December, which was a Monday, I
get up in the morning and there's a long text

(59:54):
on my phone from my attorney apologizing that he did
not make the eighteen November court date. And I didn't
respond on sixteen December Monday because I had lots of
things to do in my defense preparation. So I show
up to court December sixteenth, and I read the text

(01:00:18):
of him.

Speaker 11 (01:00:18):
Apologizes to this guy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Let me let me get this straight. Bro, let me
let me get this straight. I don't care about dates. Okay,
this man did not show up for any hearing ever.

Speaker 13 (01:00:30):
Well, yes, he did so the eighteen November.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
No, I don't want dates. Here's what I want. Hold on, listen, James,
just wait for helping you. The first hearing after you
hired him, he did not show up, is that right?

Speaker 13 (01:00:44):
Correct? And I just pled not guilty. The court said
it for eighteen November.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Yeah, but hold on, I'm talking not show James. James,
you said please just wait, Okay, just wait. I know
you're anxious.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Just wait.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
You said you pleaded not guilty. Correct, Please, James, you
said you pleaded not guilty and then hired him. Okay,
so after you hired no.

Speaker 13 (01:01:17):
I hired him and then showed up to my next
court date with an attorney with an attorney hired, and
he didn't show up. So at that point I played
not guilty, and the judge gave got it continuance to
eighteen November, which is a month later, a month got it?

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
So he didn't show up. That's the second hearing, and
he didn't show up then.

Speaker 13 (01:01:39):
Either, correct, So eighteen November.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
And then what about the third? What about the third hearing?

Speaker 13 (01:01:46):
The third hearing was actually the time after the judge
told me I needed to be ready. So between the
second kay, I did the work to find out what
the state Patrol had as far as his body cam
and death.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Okay, got it? And what did he show up for
the third hearing?

Speaker 13 (01:02:06):
Kind of so again Monday, I'm ready to go to
court with no attorney or an attorney. I just don't know.
I haven't heard from him. And that was Monday, sixteen December.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
But for the third hearing, for the third hearing?

Speaker 20 (01:02:24):
Correct, Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Then what the third time?

Speaker 13 (01:02:26):
I get into court and the judge says, where's your attorney?
And again I shrugged my shoulders and said I don't know,
So the judge had the state Patrol call my attorney.
The attorney answered and said I'm sorry, I'm on my way.
Do you still need me? And we're out in the

(01:02:48):
hall and the state patrol just needs to go back
in and tell the judge that he's on his way.
So I'm sitting there waiting for the attorney. The attorney
gets there, I show him the documents that I've got
that he said he couldn't get because he was asking
city police, not the State Patrol, for the documents. That

(01:03:09):
it was a staple issue, so he was looking for
the documents in the wrong part. He made a big
apology about not showing and not being prepared and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Blah blah blah, right right right then what he.

Speaker 13 (01:03:22):
Gets there late. I'm waiting with the last case, and
he said, well, do you feel comfortable testifying? He said, yeah,
that's no problem. So we get up there. The state
Patrol presents this case against me. The state Patrol had
a witness against me. And I get up there and
I answered the questions of the state patrol.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Now was this guy in court with you?

Speaker 7 (01:03:45):
Was he?

Speaker 13 (01:03:47):
Yes? He got there late, So the judge had the
state Patrol call him and asked him if he was conning.
And I didn't know if he was because he hadn't
showed up twice before, so I said, I don't know.
So finally, the attorneys on the phone with the state
patrol in the hall and we decide that the attorney's

(01:04:08):
on his way. So I'm waiting in the hall and
when the attorney gets there, we go over things briefly,
we go through the whole trial, and as we met
in the hall, he again apologized and said he can
get me some of my money back. So we did
the whole trial, and luckily the judge seen through the

(01:04:29):
gaps and the lies that were presented, and in the
end the judge dismissed my ticket.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
But oh good, I'll had.

Speaker 13 (01:04:39):
To go through the stress, the extra expense, and no,
I get it, the possibility of and he was but.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
Let me explain something. No, no, no, no, let me let me
explain something. You did go through a lot of crap.
And here's what I think. I'm on your side. But
those expenses, those court expenses would have been paid anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
You can't charge him for that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
That would have been part of your bill on top
of legal fees.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Okay, it would.

Speaker 13 (01:05:07):
Have been so, so how didn't discharge any court fees?
The fees that I paid were one to the attorney
and two to the State Patrol for the disclosure of
all the.

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
Jam James, James, let me reword it. James, any court
costs you paid or did not pay, that's fine. But
then any other document fees like to the state Police,
you would have had to pay anyway. It's not your
attorney's fault. If he had paid them, he would have
billed you for them. It's not your attorney's fault. Not

(01:05:39):
that part of it, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
The fact that you had to do it is BS. Okay,
that's BS.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
But now what I believe is you owe him fricking
nothing and he should refund your retainer. And I think
you should go to the Supreme Court Grievance Committee. Do
they still call it that, Brad, What do they call it?
Fee dispute Committee with the Barsosa. You absolutely should get
your money back in my opinion.

Speaker 13 (01:06:04):
Well, and that seems more than reasonable and generous to me.
So what I did, as I said, yes, I thought
about your offer to refund my money, and what I'm
willing to do is take half of your three thousand
dollars feedback, in half of the eight hundred and fifty
that I paid that you should have paid out of
the fee, or he.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Shouldn't have paid it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
Okay, See, James, James, we're at a disconnect. Okay, let's
just say, for argument's sake, let's say he did represent
you adequately and put in the time to earn three thousand.
Let's just say that, for arguments sake, you would have
been billed that three thousand on your retainer and the
eight hundred for evidence you would have been billed that

(01:06:50):
he does not owe that to you. I am all
for trying to get your three grand back. Did you
get your three grand back?

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
No?

Speaker 13 (01:06:58):
I told him. I told him in a test that yes,
I considered it, and of the thirty eight hundred on
into it, that I would be happy to get nineteen
hundred back. And he has not responded.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Wait, wait, wait, I don't understand this.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
You only want nineteen hundred back, and he's willing to
give you the retainer, the entire retainer back.

Speaker 13 (01:07:21):
Well, he said he was willing, but he has yet
to do anything.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Okay, but here's what I don't understand. James.

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
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(01:07:55):
choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com to
list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine
two zero sixteen twenty two. Hey, I'm Tom Martine, your
troubleshooter dot com. James, listen as I understand it, and

(01:08:16):
we don't have to go through I truly was listening
to each and every word as I understand it. Sir,
you are you are to me? You should get your
entire retainer back.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
The money you paid for evidence is an expense that
you would have paid any time. But as I understand it,
I know he didn't do anything. I know he didn't
do anything. I know he didn't do anything yet. But
at first he offered, as I'm understanding this, he offered
to give the retainer back, and you actually counter offered
saying you would take even less money.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Is that right?

Speaker 13 (01:08:50):
Essentially? Yees? So I paid him three thousand and he offered. Yeah,
the first time he didn't show, he offered.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
To refund that back.

Speaker 14 (01:09:00):
That's the third time he didn't show.

Speaker 13 (01:09:02):
We met in the hall and he again offered to
pay some.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Of that brand we need. We need to work on this.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
You should get your three grand back that and there's
a real easy way to do it. I want you
to hang on if you could for me, sir, you
have been totally abused.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
This is bull crap. I'm Tom Martino.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
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(01:09:41):
You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank
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home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero
sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
News need so you don't have as.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
You can shoot is gonna help?

Speaker 21 (01:10:09):
Come man, This is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
The Troubleshooter Show.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
No Tom Martinez Hi, Tom Martino here, I got Brad
O'Brien with me.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
O'Brien legal services, real estate.

Speaker 9 (01:10:21):
Love.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
We've been talking a lot about real estate, but anything
else you want and uh uh, this one thing really
pissed me off.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
Now, now, Brad did say, as an attorney, if you
can't make hearings, you file continuance. You don't leave it
to your your your client to show up and not
know where you are.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
I mean, that's ridiculous, right, And then.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
Brad says, you don't have to pull out the big
guns right now and go to the Supreme Court Gredienance
Committee or whatever, the oversight committee or the Bar Association.
Yet just ask where's my retainer? I want a refund.
So I'm gonna ask this caller. I mean, this caller
was done wrong. Okay, if everything he's telling me is true.
This guy hired an attorney, paid him three and then

(01:11:01):
did everything himself, and the judge took mercy on him
because the attorney stopped showing up, I mean, or not
stopped never showed up except once, so the charges were dropped,
thank goodness. So but he's out three grand. Of course,
he had to pay eight hundred for evidentiary stuff, which
he would have had to pay anyways, but the three
grand for legal fees should be totally refunded in my opinion,

(01:11:24):
if everything he says is true. So, James, when was
the last time he asked where's my money?

Speaker 13 (01:11:32):
So the court day that it was dismissed was sixteen December,
and right at the beginning of January or late late December,
I said, yes, I've considered it, and I want nineteen
hundred back, and he didn't respond, I will.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Why don't you take the whole three grand back? Why?

Speaker 13 (01:11:50):
Because because because he did something I'm I'm I don't
want him to go hungry.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
You're a good man, you're you're a good man, and
you know what, what? Why the hell does he deserve anything?

Speaker 9 (01:12:04):
Right?

Speaker 13 (01:12:04):
I thought nineteen hundred was reasonable, and he hasn't responded.
That's why I'm calling.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
You, James.

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
I want to help you, but I got to ask you.
This is the first time in history where I think
the consumer deserves more than he's asking for. Please tell
me why, Please tell me why you think he deserves
to keep anything.

Speaker 13 (01:12:28):
Well, he did show up after the State Patrol called
him for the actual trial. The last day he showed up,
and I'm not sure if I was super prepared or
a combination of him and me and then the judge
being able to use his discretion dismissed it. So I'm
not sure exactly how much to credit myself to judge or.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
What a good guy this guy is.

Speaker 13 (01:12:54):
Well, I thought less than two thousand from my cost
was reasonable. So I've spent three thousand a year.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
Yeah, but by the way, just just for just for
grins here when you when you ask for it, I
wouldn't say I want half of the evidentiary cost.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
I wouldn't say that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
I would say, I think you know, you might deserve
a grand for showing up the one day, but I
want two thousand dollars back. Please don't split it up,
because I'm going to tell you something. If it goes
to a hearing with the with the Bar Association, the
Fee Dispute Committee, you are not going to be awarded
any part of any kind of cost.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
You will not be awarded.

Speaker 13 (01:13:39):
Now I understand that, But so I again would feel
happy if he were funded two thousand or three thousands
of his feet forget to eight up.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
Okay, let's work on this. Let's work on this, and
I'm going to ask the sixty four thousand dollars question,
when was the last time you talked to him?

Speaker 13 (01:14:01):
I text him last probably a week and a half ago,
saying I need to know what you're planning to do,
and if you're not planning to do anything, I probably
need to reconsider my approach. And he didn't respond to that.
Say reconsidering of the approach was first ask him according
to what he offered, and he didn't respond. So now

(01:14:24):
my approach, which he still hasn't responded, is to talk
to you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
I did call the Now that was not the sixty
four thousand dollars question. That was the twenty five thousand
dollars question. Here's the sixty four thousand dollars question. Okay,
you're ready for it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Who is he?

Speaker 13 (01:14:46):
His name is Connor Stuartson, Connor Stuartson.

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
Correct, How did you find him? And is it Stuartson?
As an s T E W.

Speaker 13 (01:15:03):
A R T s O n.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
Okay? So it is s T s T E W.

Speaker 13 (01:15:14):
Got it A R T s O n.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Okay? Do you find him there?

Speaker 19 (01:15:20):
Yeah? Go ahead, he's uh, it looks like he's working
at a at a law firm down in the Springs.

Speaker 4 (01:15:27):
Okay, And I want to help. And he's not going
to talk.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
To us because he's going to say, you know all
of this.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
So you're going to text him a message and let
him know he can talk to us.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Oh, none in the Springs.

Speaker 19 (01:15:41):
I'd like to correct that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
There he is in the Springs, Denver, Denver, and I
is Connor? Is he in the Springs?

Speaker 13 (01:15:51):
He has an office where I initially met him.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
Yes, and he says he represents.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Go ahead, he represents first degree murder, sex assault on
a child, agrad robbery, felony, murder, d UI misdemeanors, electric
share guaranteed.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
This guy is just what a piece of work? What
a frickin piece of work? WHOA He has a one
star review?

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
Did you know that on this one attorney site?

Speaker 13 (01:16:24):
Yes? And I think, honestly, this man, well, I'm guessing that.
I mean honestly, I think he's a good lawyer in
front of the bench, but as far as logistics and scheduling,
I think that's where his problem is.

Speaker 4 (01:16:42):
But I don't know license for eight years. So he's
a baby lawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
James.

Speaker 19 (01:16:50):
This is Deputy d I just got a couple of
really quick questions for you, if i'm may Did you
and your lawyer ever actually agree on the amount of
a refund?

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
Well?

Speaker 13 (01:17:01):
He said in a long text that he could get
me a full refund, and that was after he didn't
show the second time.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
Did you keep did you wait?

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Did you keep those texts?

Speaker 8 (01:17:14):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:17:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 13 (01:17:17):
Oh yeah. He made a five point essay on the
apology for not showing up.

Speaker 4 (01:17:23):
Do you know he has a rating on all all
of the lawyer all of the lawyer sites of one star.

Speaker 19 (01:17:31):
Well cleared to me that they actually had an agreement,
okay for a refund, But let.

Speaker 4 (01:17:37):
Me just stop that right now, because you keep going
back to that he offered a refund. They didn't have
an agreement because he came back and said I even
want less money. It's still totally totally ridiculous that this
attorney is not addressing it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
I don't care if they had a contract or an
agreement or just a discussion.

Speaker 4 (01:17:56):
The guy has been texting him saying I want my money,
I want at least this much money, and he's being ghosted.
What difference does it make if they had an agreement.

Speaker 19 (01:18:06):
Here's the difference the lawyer offered him a refund before
the final trial where James was found innocent or had
a case dismissed. So could it be that the lawyer
said before the trial, said hey, man, I'll give you
your three grand back and we go our separate ways.
And James didn't accept that offer, and the lawyer finally,
after the cops called him, came to trial.

Speaker 3 (01:18:28):
Well, it wouldn't matter to me. It wouldn't matter. It
wouldn't matter.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
What I'm saying is you look at the case in
its totality, not each in every blow. Look at the
tot totality. The guy was a clown. Okay, the guy
gave him some service. In fact, I think this guy
is being nice James to say I'll take two grand back.
You can have a thousand for coming the last day.
Now did he do anything? James is the one who
gathered the evidence. For God's sakes, this guy came and

(01:18:53):
said I couldn't get the evidence. He was asking the
wrong police department.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Go ahead, bo games.

Speaker 18 (01:19:05):
So since this guy has GOHO seeing you not responding
to text, go directly to his office and knock on
the doors. The lawyers there and do a personal go
there personally and ask for the money, but he'd be
embarrassed and write yad check. Go there personally and then
maybe if that doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
I think you have to put it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
I think you have to put a I think you
have to make a formal ask in writing, and then
then you need to go to the UH. You need
to go to the Bar Association, the council committee.

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
You must the opposite.

Speaker 6 (01:19:37):
Of attorney regulation.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
No, I just hold on, guys, stop stop giving recommendations
right now, we're we're giving him too many. The very
first place he goes, the very first place is the
Fee Dispute Committee with the Bar Association. He can put
in attorney complaints. After that, we want to get his
money back. That's it, okay. The other place he's not

(01:20:00):
going to get his money back. They're going to file
a complaint and do an investigation and it will take
months and months and may not even do an investigation.
So right now, I want him to write a formal
request for his money back saying he didn't get quality representation,
and make it brief, and then you file a complaint,
a formal complaint with the Bar Association Fee Dispute Committee.

Speaker 20 (01:20:22):
CORL that's it.

Speaker 13 (01:20:23):
I'm fully willing to do that. I'm patient enough to
do that. But I hope that he gets win. That
we discussed this and he considers it not worth the
hassle and simply pays two thousand. I'll make a request
of two thousand to his office in writing, and if
somebody's there, I'll get a time stamp copy of it.

(01:20:43):
So I know that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
And here's what I want to ask, not that I
think it matters, but Deputy D had a point I
want to address, not anything about agreements beforehand, but after
you so called won your case, did he say to
you congratulations I knew I could do it, or any
indication that he felt proud of himself, because I think

(01:21:08):
that's what you're getting at that he might think.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
He might think, now, hey, I did a good job.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
Yes.

Speaker 13 (01:21:14):
As we met in the hall when he showed up late,
we were talking and then again he offered some of
my feedback, and then after it was dismissed, I said
thank you, and also he noted that well, something to
the effected, I'm good and I haven't lost the case.

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
Okay, So he was patting himself on the backs as
D's got good instincts. So even though he may have said,
I'm going to give your money back, blah blah blah,
he may have thought, you know what, now it's a
whole new ballgame.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
It's a whole new ball game. I won.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
Well, let me ask you something, just between you and me,
I want to ask you something. During that third hearing,
that third and five final hearing, when it was dismissed.

Speaker 3 (01:22:02):
Did he put up a good defense?

Speaker 8 (01:22:03):
Was?

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Was he? Was he good?

Speaker 13 (01:22:06):
You know, I have to admit that I think he
made them all his objections were sustained.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
Okay, he won?

Speaker 13 (01:22:16):
Well, yes he did one.

Speaker 10 (01:22:21):
You know, well, to wait, there is a twice's point
where he's going though. Just think about it. You just
said to the objections. You would have never have known
to do that. You might not have won that by yourself.
And really, D is the one deputy.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
D is the one that brought up the ultimate end result.
And I wasn't thinking of that because I don't want
to couple it with any previous agreements. But now he
might think, Okay, I really screwed up right up until
this point, but ultimately I won.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
So I did earn the three grand.

Speaker 13 (01:22:56):
No, because in the hall prior to going into the courtroom,
he again offered. After he was there to represent me,
he again offered to reimburse some of my feet regard.

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
Now I get it, I get it again.

Speaker 4 (01:23:12):
I do believe in my personal opinion that yeah, he
probably in my opinion that you know, he owes you
some something in my opinion, but he may think even
though I screwed up, I ultimately vindicated myself. And I
think de that was the point you were making more
so than they had an agreement. I mean, I think

(01:23:35):
that he believes that day was a whole new ball game.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
Yeah, I think that.

Speaker 19 (01:23:40):
What I've heard is both of these offers of refund
that mister Stewartson had made to the caller occurred before
the final trial, and I'm wondering if.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
Those offers were contention on if they were.

Speaker 19 (01:23:56):
Contingent on them just going their separate ways.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
By the way, when he.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
Did I'll give your money back and you can get
another attorney, did he say something like that.

Speaker 13 (01:24:05):
On the first text when he made a five point
essay with his apologies and offered a full refund, he
offered a refund. And then when he didn't show up
to the actual trial, and I waited for him in
the hall and showed him what I had from the
State Patrol. He again there prior to the judge, offered

(01:24:27):
some of my feedback.

Speaker 10 (01:24:29):
You know, I'd like to know he I'd like to
know what Bradley thinks, just simply not not on you know,
guilt or innocence or anything like that, but you know,
based upon everything you heard. You're an attorney, what do
you think?

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
Okay, I want to take I got to take a break,
Dragon said, So we'll come back to that, and then
I'm going to take Keaton, who has an issue with
an orthodontics place that used to advertise with us, and
we'll talk about that and more coming up on the
Troubleshooter Show three ZO three one three talk Frank durand
the real estate Man. Remember he does more than just

(01:25:04):
help you buy or sell property. Before you even think
about selling, he'll go a property analysis and he'll do
it for you on what you can on what you
can expect to get for your home based on his
vast experience and a detailed analysis of your home. It's
all free, uh and no obligation. Three oh three nine
two zero sixteen twenty two go with a sure thing

(01:25:31):
Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 4 (01:25:39):
Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. I like

(01:26:04):
with a little sense, Hi, Tom Martina here tho three
seven one three talk seven one three eight two five
five So okay, so so far. Now we're gonna going
back to James because he's gonna go do a formal
request of the attorney and then put in uh hearing
with the Supreme Heart Grievance Committee. But then when we

(01:26:24):
assign somebody to work with him, who wants this? Uh
if he comes back to us body, Dmitrie, what do
you think? Yeah, Dmitri could yeah uh he he uh
he certainly had a lot to say about it. But
well we'll do that now. Keaton, Keaton is calling about

(01:26:44):
neo ORTHODONICX. I believe that's what he's calling about. Neo now,
neo ORTHODONYX. I love the concept and and my both
of my children have gone through it with is it,
doctor Ken Lawson?

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
Is that who you use?

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
Keaton? Yes, sir, okay, I'll explain how it works with
my kids.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
You know what they believe in.

Speaker 4 (01:27:08):
They believe in doing I don't know how they do it,
but they do a long process rather than trying to
jam all the teeth with these harsh braces, and they
do incredible work. And it's a flat monthly FIA month
until you're done. And both of my children had wonderful results.
So I just want you to know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
That going in, I'm not automatically sicken up for them.
I'm just telling you my experience.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
So, Keaton, what happened with you?

Speaker 22 (01:27:32):
So we actually use them too because you had such
great luck, and so we use them for our oldest
child and had really great, amazing results. And so we
ended up referring to some of our good friends to them,
and they've been doing the same exact process and haven't
really hurt anything. And so they showed up to their

(01:27:53):
doctor's appointment today and the building is shut down, and
they said, there's nothing in the office. What and so no,
two offices. They went to both offices and both offices
appear to be completely empty, and they actually just read
withdrew out of their account yesterday for their appointment to today.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
But they well that that's automated. I'm sure, I'm sure
they're I'm sure they're not meant to. You know, he
would never cheat anyone, but I'm concerned about him.

Speaker 8 (01:28:30):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
Now he was getting he was getting up there in age.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
I mean, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that
as a bad thing because I think he was a
little older than me.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
And uh, I know he.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
Had a few you know, it's it's just a few
health issues here and there. God, I hope everything's Did
they answer their phones?

Speaker 7 (01:28:53):
No?

Speaker 22 (01:28:53):
So I actually tried calling myself as well today and
I wasn't able to get hold of either one of
the offices. It just want one just continued to ring
through their lo entry and then the Love and Office
actually have an answry machine and it said that it
would get back to you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
Mark. Do we have Did Mark step away? Did he
come back? Now, I'm here, I'm wondering if we say,
do we have in our go ahead? Sir?

Speaker 10 (01:29:22):
Okay, Well, first of all, can I interject here and
just put this into a real perspective. You ready, they're
in chapter eleven. They're in bankruptcy. It's been filed, so
it is what it is right now?

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
How do you know that? Mark? How do you know that?
Because I'm reading it? Okay, where'd you find it?

Speaker 10 (01:29:41):
He told the employees that, well, okay, just google neo
orthodonics bankruptcy.

Speaker 4 (01:29:48):
Okay, man, Well good, I'm at least we're getting you final.

Speaker 10 (01:29:51):
Well, he filed for chapter Listen, he filed for chapter eleven,
which is a business restructure. My guess is he had
a lot of debt that he ow personally too. Maybe uh,
you know, guarantees converted to chapter seven. Then it converted
to seven, and he told employees that he couldn't pay
them because he was bankrupt. Okay, Now the problem is

(01:30:18):
they can't be taking money each month.

Speaker 3 (01:30:19):
That's a little insane. No, no, of course not.

Speaker 4 (01:30:23):
And I'm sure, first of all, the trustee won't allow
that to happen, and it'd be actually filed, so that's
not going to be difficult, and and doctor Lawson wouldn't
do it intentionally. That is really here, here's you know
what your credit card company should be able to get
that back for you.

Speaker 10 (01:30:42):
But you know, other than that, there's nothing you're going
to do. When he's under Chapter eleven or Chapter seven,
the trustee is going to reach out to you with options.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
But if he can't pay his employees.

Speaker 10 (01:30:55):
I'll tell you right now, those employees in the IRS
and secure debt, there's all kinds of things that are
going to come way before you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 22 (01:31:06):
Yeah, Well, she admitted that I know another individual outside
of outside I guess waiting for their appointment too, or
showing up for their appointment, and that that gal had
explained to her that they had already paid twelve thousand
dollars in advance.

Speaker 9 (01:31:21):
Is that so?

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
Yeah? And again that'll be part of the hold on,
that'll be part of the that'll be part of the restructuring.
But unfortunately, unfortunately, it could end up that people are
going to lose money. Now, Mark, how long ago did
did we? I mean, we didn't part ways for anything
like that. Now, it was pre it was pre COVID.
If I had to guess because of the nature way

(01:31:44):
way before that, way before that.

Speaker 10 (01:31:46):
Well, the reason I bring that up I think, I think,
what not just the nail in the coffin. I think
the hole was dug, the coffin was built, and the
nail was put in it because of COVID.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
But man system.

Speaker 4 (01:32:02):
You know what's really weird is he kind of developed
this system. And I wish somebody would it's worth something,
you know what I'm saying. I just I would hate
to see the technology just go out the window.

Speaker 10 (01:32:16):
But to go back to the caller though, if there was,
like if there's any fraud, that's different. I don't see
that happening because I knew this doctor. But there's going
to be so many people in line. Really, the secure
debtors are going to be number one. The irs is
going to be number two if he owes either payroll taxes,
which he probably does, and you're just so far down

(01:32:39):
the line. It's crazy, and I know people hate to
hear that. But now this guy didn't lose anything. His
friend did. How much did he pull out of the account.

Speaker 22 (01:32:47):
I think there's their monthly bill. I think it was
like one hundred and fifty or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
It wasn't really what they better do. They better shut
that down. Now.

Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
Listen, here's the problem. If they originated it on his website,
not going to be able to shut it down, and
it might be doing it automatically. You got they got
to take action to shut it down.

Speaker 10 (01:33:08):
I would I would reach out to I'd figure out
who the trustee is and have that person reach out
and go, hey, you know you're the trustee on this account.

Speaker 3 (01:33:17):
This guy's still taking money from me.

Speaker 4 (01:33:20):
Okay, yeah, yeah, you know what, I'd like to get
Mike wink On just to ask him in general about
stuff like that.

Speaker 10 (01:33:29):
You know what, he can pull up Mike can actually
pull up the file and read it too.

Speaker 3 (01:33:33):
That'd be nice. So, Kachina, let's get Mike wink On. Keaton.

Speaker 4 (01:33:39):
You can hang out and listen, or you can hang
up and listen. We'll talk about it in general. But Keaton,
as I understand it, your case was was gone, was
done right, you're you're all your daughter, I know it.

Speaker 22 (01:33:52):
It's and they were thinking about pulling four or five
pep to make room, and so this was such a
much better idea and it worked, and it works fantastic, and.

Speaker 14 (01:34:02):
You liked that.

Speaker 4 (01:34:03):
So my daughter never My daughter never spent a day embraces,
and my son had to have some braces, but way
less because they.

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
Do that system of mouth things.

Speaker 4 (01:34:13):
Man, It's just it's like I said, I would hate
to see this technology die if the business model, you know,
if it was just for the business part of it.

Speaker 7 (01:34:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:26):
Anyway, gosh, I'm sorry to hear that. So we're gonna
get I want to get Mike wink On in general
to talk about this. Three oh three seven one three
talks seven one three A two five five. Go with
a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing dot com.

(01:34:47):
You don't pay a cent until you're content. Time for
an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison, call
Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of
insurance companies find out now three oh three seven seven
to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when
you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com

(01:35:07):
to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three
nine two zero sixteen twenty two plus.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
Miss new Lighting. We really trust, I mean, I think
to be trained to lighting. He's easy.

Speaker 10 (01:35:29):
Three oh three Martino don't forget that number works on
and off the air.

Speaker 3 (01:35:35):
Am I on the air or off? Yes, sir, maybe
I'm not on the air anymore. Hello, definitely on the air.

Speaker 6 (01:35:41):
Sh anyhow?

Speaker 3 (01:35:42):
Three oh three seven one three eight two s here.
I am sorry. It was my fault. I'm sorry, man,
I had my earpiece off. I was blaming Dragon this
whole time.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
Tom, totally, you can d You can blame me and
call me any names you want.

Speaker 10 (01:35:56):
I still think it was dragonway no matter what you say.

Speaker 3 (01:36:00):
Mike Wink is with us. Hey, Mike, this is always.

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
Unfortunate when a bankruptcy happens with a business and we
have a chapter. We have a chapter eleven. Can you
explain and then it turns seven. Explain what an eleven
is with a business and is it available only to businesses?
This is Mike Wink who is a bankruptcy attorney and expert.

Speaker 9 (01:36:23):
Go ahead, Mike, Yeah, Tom.

Speaker 12 (01:36:26):
Chapter eleven is essentially what's fined as a reorganization and
it is not only available.

Speaker 9 (01:36:34):
To businesses, but it is available to businesses and people
who the majority of their debt is business debt, and
it basically can enable the business or the individual to
restructure debt to be repaid under different terms that may
be more favorable to the debtor.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):
And do they end up usually paying one hundred percent
on the dollar or are they relieved of any.

Speaker 9 (01:37:00):
They're usually relieved right that.

Speaker 12 (01:37:02):
Essentially, creditors get classified based on their rights, so you
have like secured creditors and sometimes even shareholders get get
involved and then unsecured creditors and so typically the unsecured
creditors are taking less than is owed or maybe getting nothing,
depending on the facts and circumstances.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
So do business you know, I actually don't know this
and I should do. Businesses they usually don't come out
of it. Is that true or not true? Or is
it a last ditch effort or do people ever? Do
businesses ever come out of it and do well?

Speaker 9 (01:37:42):
Absolutely, businesses do.

Speaker 12 (01:37:44):
And there's some high profile cases of you know, big
businesses like United that have come out of bankruptcy in
very good shape.

Speaker 9 (01:37:53):
But it is a much higher.

Speaker 12 (01:37:54):
Risk bankruptcy than any type of consumer bankruptcy.

Speaker 9 (01:37:59):
And one of the big.

Speaker 12 (01:38:01):
Risks is that a lot of times the business has
a very rosy view of the future and a payment plan,
a reorganization plan gets set up based upon.

Speaker 9 (01:38:12):
That rosy view, and so we're going to pay these
secured creditors and this and that, and then they can't
meet those payments and the case either gets dismithed or
it maybe it sounds like in this case converted to
chapters help.

Speaker 4 (01:38:26):
Yeah, that's what I read about neo orthodontics. By the way,
doctor Lawson, what a great technology. I can't speak to
his business, you know, but my kids went through it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
I know numerous people that went through it.

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
Anyway, when it's converted to a seven, what does that
usually signal.

Speaker 23 (01:38:47):
Well, it's it's usually not a good thing for the
debtor because typically in those situations there's assets that the
creditors would be entitled to liquidate. The fundamental press of
a chapter eleven is, hey, everybody, you're going to do
better if you let us have the keep these assets,

(01:39:08):
make money and repay you over time, say five years,
then you would be if you came in and took
everything right. In other words, some is work.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
Who makes the choice to convert? Who makes the choice to.

Speaker 9 (01:39:21):
Convert the Typically it's it's creditors, they're not on board
with the plan.

Speaker 8 (01:39:27):
It could it could.

Speaker 23 (01:39:28):
I think it also could come from the trustee of
the court, depending on if the plan is being at
the plant at the terms of the plan aren't being
met by the debtor and.

Speaker 10 (01:39:37):
Tom the plan comes down to To get the initial
plan through, it basically comes down to a vote of the.

Speaker 12 (01:39:42):
Creditors correct correct. Typically the votes are classified by the
by the classes of.

Speaker 4 (01:39:51):
The Mike, Mike, I can think, I can't think of
many assets. This is not a regular dental office. I mean,
this is their system is so sparse. In fact, how
it works, it's a wonderful system, But I can't think
you know of a lot of assets that would be there,
you know, I mean offices, And they would rather.

Speaker 9 (01:40:15):
Dismiss the case.

Speaker 12 (01:40:16):
But conversion is driven by someone's perception. Some creditors trust
the court's perception that the assets are worth more than
the plan, and they'd rather just huh.

Speaker 3 (01:40:30):
And could part of that asset?

Speaker 4 (01:40:31):
Here's what I want to know, his technology, which I
believe he developed. Could that be in itself intellectual property
worth something to a bankruptcy court.

Speaker 12 (01:40:43):
Absolutely it could, you know, bankruptcy court bankruptcy trustees are
not the best liquidating things like that, and so even
if it has value, it can be difficult to sell.
But you know, if it's that good, absolutely it could
be an asset.

Speaker 10 (01:41:03):
Doesn't that mean though he would have to have a
patent on it? I mean just because you're good at
you know, I.

Speaker 4 (01:41:08):
Really no mark to the extent. Yeah, I don't know
the extent of his technology. I know, you know he
borrowed here, borrowed there, But I think he really developed
this new early orthodontics. Ah, it's such a shame. And Mike,
if you can hang on, I have a few more questions.
If so, because people that run up against this. I
just want to talk about priorities. And then Laurie, we

(01:41:30):
can take you too. I'm Tom Martine. Go with a
sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing dot com. You
don't pay a cent until you're content. Time for an
insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison, call Compass

(01:41:52):
insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance
companies find out now three O three, seven to seven
to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when
you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com
to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three
nine two zero sixteen twenty two TI Tom Martine Your

(01:42:21):
Troubleshooter three oh three seven one three talk three oh
three seven one three eight two five five again Mike
Wink from Wink and Wink Mike when in priority? How
do they set priority for liquidation and payouts? And what
would happen if payments were automatically drafted? Because he worked

(01:42:43):
on a monthly basis where he would draw a flat.

Speaker 3 (01:42:46):
Monthly fee from your account.

Speaker 4 (01:42:48):
And I'm sure this wasn't done intentionally, But after the
filing and they closed, some people are still getting tapped.
Will the trustee get I mean, how do how would
they work? First those of media payments do they go
into the hopper and they have to wait for everyone? Now?

Speaker 12 (01:43:05):
Well, so secure creditors are basically first in priority, so
they have a lean.

Speaker 9 (01:43:11):
Those assets are going with secure creditors.

Speaker 4 (01:43:15):
But even if money was just taken out, in other words,
if my ach payment for service was just taken out,
is that different or is that still going to the big.

Speaker 9 (01:43:25):
Hopper you talk about taken out prior to filing bankruptcy
or after no.

Speaker 4 (01:43:32):
After they closed the payment was just taken out after.

Speaker 9 (01:43:36):
I see if it reaches a threshold.

Speaker 12 (01:43:42):
Of seventy five hundred I think, and then in the
ninety days before filing bank.

Speaker 9 (01:43:49):
Payment, in which case the trustee can recover it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:53):
Now there's others okay involved with prep. Hey, Mike, try
to stay on with us. Okay, I'm so alry, Michael.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
We'll call you back. And for blasting that music, that
was really a good touch. We got more coming up
on the Troubleshooter Shows. Go with a sure thing Denver's
Best roofer Excel Roofing dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:44:11):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 4 (01:44:17):
Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance. Pay too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
Yeah, ripped.

Speaker 14 (01:44:45):
News.

Speaker 8 (01:44:47):
So you don't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
Run as fast as we can. Shooter's gonna help.

Speaker 8 (01:44:55):
Come man, this is.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
The Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martino, Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:45:04):
Tom Martino.

Speaker 4 (01:45:05):
Here Welcome to the show, solving problems, answering questions, taking complainants.
Let's go to the funds. It's been a very busy
day and we love that. We love answering questions and
taking care of problems for people.

Speaker 3 (01:45:19):
One and all.

Speaker 4 (01:45:19):
We have our expert on Mike Wink because something happened recently. Neo,
a new early orthodontics which is Neo ne EO I guess,
filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy and then chapter seven and
they used to advertise with us, and so people called us.

(01:45:41):
My children also went through the program, which is excellent technology.

Speaker 3 (01:45:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:45:46):
He would charge a flat monthly fee and then they
did a system of mouth things that would change teeth
and alter them dramatically without heavy bracing. Sometimes you needed
embrace us here and there, but it was just it
was drama. Add and my one daughter here and my
only daughter, Delci, went through never had a day embraces

(01:46:07):
and her teeth went perfectly. My son, on the other hand,
had some bracing, but way less than normal.

Speaker 3 (01:46:14):
It's just a good system.

Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
But hey, there was a bankruptcy then now it's turned
to a chapter seven, which means liquidation.

Speaker 3 (01:46:21):
Some of these.

Speaker 4 (01:46:22):
Accounts were tapped on their monthly payment after the filing
and after they closed. And I asked, Mike, if so,
if you pay a payment to someone right after they
filed and right after they closed, and they either inadvertently
or intentionally pulled payments from you, Mike, do those payments
get put into the bankruptcy estate and.

Speaker 3 (01:46:44):
Distributed like to secure creditors.

Speaker 4 (01:46:47):
First and all of that, or would those recent payments
be sent back to the people immediately.

Speaker 12 (01:46:52):
It depends on how the Chapter eleven was structured. So
typically when an eleven is filed, there's a bunch of
what they call first they motions that are filed to
give the debtor, to give whoever runs the business permission
to kind of control things. And part of that will
set out like this is a this is who we're
allowed to pay, you know, this is who we're going
to pay all that kind of stuff, and if it's approved,

(01:47:15):
then that money is not going to be and and
the payments were in line with the services provided, meaning
you know, if it's your AH, for example, right like
you need your AH, it's it's a critical so called
critical vendor, they're not going to recover the payments that
you made dear ah either before after as long as
they were in the ordinary course of business and there
was no kind of money business going on where you

(01:47:37):
you know, forked a bunch of money over to.

Speaker 4 (01:47:39):
So what about a pay What about a consumer who
paid for services? They're never going to get all So
they're a creditor, right, So that's different.

Speaker 9 (01:47:48):
And so they're paying the business as opposed to the
business paying someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:47:52):
Is that you're right? That's right?

Speaker 9 (01:47:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So they're a creditor and they're going
to be in line to get a distribution if they're
enough there. But there's gonna be.

Speaker 4 (01:48:02):
So in other words, even though it just happened, even
though it just happened, I have to go through that
whole rigamarole.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
Now I can't simply get it back.

Speaker 9 (01:48:14):
Correct, correct, you have to go home?

Speaker 12 (01:48:17):
Ok? Absolutely?

Speaker 9 (01:48:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
And what is the priority in a bankruptcy?

Speaker 12 (01:48:22):
Well, so, for example, a common one for business is
that much about what the dominics but would be like
sales taxes.

Speaker 9 (01:48:28):
My sales taxes are going to get paid before others.

Speaker 12 (01:48:31):
And then certain employees up to a certain amount of
payroll are also going to get paid before, say the
customer is going to get their money back, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:48:44):
And taxes they're right up there, right, yes.

Speaker 9 (01:48:48):
Payroll sales taxes, payroll taxes, definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
Okay. Is there is no winner here ever? Right? I
mean it's unfortunately the.

Speaker 9 (01:49:01):
Way it sounds like it's failed. Yeah, it's it's not.
It's usually that's not a good situation. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Why well, as a bankruptcy attorney, you really want to
bet the viability of the business before you, you know,
push it into an eleven, because there's a lot of
risks there, a lot of risk of a train wreck.

Speaker 3 (01:49:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Yeah, so that's probably why I went to a seven.

Speaker 3 (01:49:27):
Correct And okay, all right, well, thank you very much, Mike.
There's not much more. Did you look up this particular case?

Speaker 9 (01:49:36):
I have not, no, but you just gave me the names.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
Okay, yeah, but it.

Speaker 4 (01:49:40):
Is it is public record if people want to look
it up, right, correct?

Speaker 19 (01:49:44):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (01:49:45):
How do they look up a bankruptcy case?

Speaker 20 (01:49:48):
You know, as a as a layperson, I'm not sure
I think you could call the bankruptcy court and order
the documents. I don't think you get access to online,
which I have as an attorney, So I suppose another
thing you do would be to call us and we can.

Speaker 9 (01:50:02):
Look it up for you.

Speaker 6 (01:50:04):
I have recent experience with that.

Speaker 19 (01:50:06):
I had to look somebody up who had filed bankruptcy
at the Federal Court at Denver, and I did it
two ways. First of all, you can just show up
there in person and they have a little computer room
and you can look up the case and make prints
and make printouts, and they charge your ten cents a page.

Speaker 3 (01:50:24):
Okay, and they help you look it up.

Speaker 19 (01:50:26):
Yeah, they show you how to do it, and then
you use one of the terminals and then you can
print whatever documents.

Speaker 3 (01:50:32):
But every filing is in there.

Speaker 19 (01:50:33):
It's it's the BASER system, and every filing is in there,
and you hit print and then the ladies sell you
your printouts for ten cents a page.

Speaker 3 (01:50:43):
And that's thank you. Mike Wink Law Firm dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:50:47):
For Mike, it's seven to zero five to two three
zero six two zero. That's seven two zero five two
three zero six two zero Wink Law Firm dot Com. Hey, Mike,
has there been an uptick in bankruptcies over the past year?

Speaker 9 (01:51:04):
Yeah, definitely, definitely, we're seeing more. Yes, Yeah, there has been.
I think COVID created a kind of delayed, delayed reaction.

Speaker 12 (01:51:15):
I think, you know, all the stimulus sort of put
off days.

Speaker 9 (01:51:18):
Of reckoning which are coming do now. So we're seeing
a lot of small business failures similar to what we're
talking about here.

Speaker 12 (01:51:25):
That's driving a lot a lot of people are getting
sued more foreclosure activity all across the board.

Speaker 9 (01:51:30):
I think we're seeing our business tick up.

Speaker 3 (01:51:35):
Okay. And you think it all started with COVID and
then grew from there.

Speaker 9 (01:51:39):
I think so. I mean, I think that you know,
it just created a lot of hardship that was put
off because of stimul lissen things. Yeah, that's not a
criticism of just the reality of it.

Speaker 3 (01:51:51):
And yeah, no, I get it, I get it.

Speaker 7 (01:51:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:51:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:51:54):
And so now your business went through a hard time
and you borrowed money to get through it, but you're
not necessarily a position to pay that pour of money
that you probably couldn't have paid before. You know, all
I did was get you through. It's not like it
helped you grow your business or something.

Speaker 4 (01:52:09):
Thank you very much, Mike. I We'll see you around, man.
We'll call you again when we need some help. Thank
you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:52:14):
All right, Laurie, what's going on? Laurie?

Speaker 2 (01:52:18):
Yes, yes, what's happening?

Speaker 18 (01:52:21):
Hello?

Speaker 21 (01:52:23):
Yes, Lourie, Hi, Hi, thank you Tom. Last Thursday I
had made an appointment at Groove Forward to have my
car looked at because my engine sail light had come on.
I've made an appointment for one o'clock on Wednesday. Seeing
eight brought my car. They're in a timely manner. They

(01:52:48):
took the keys, they took the car. They didn't give
me anything to sign. They didn't give me anything for
receipt of my car, which I thought was peculiar. I said,
don't I get anything. Isn't there any paperwork? And he said, no,
that's our protocol. We'll call you in three to five
days to let you know what's wrong. So I really

(01:53:11):
would just like to have you know. The check engine
light come on. So I had lost my air tag
for my keys, and in doing that I called back
and he said he would look and then Thursday, so Thursday,
the night I won't say Brian Eric is his name anyway,

(01:53:36):
he called me and he said, we didn't find your
air tag, but the all wheel drive system needs to
be serviced on your cars and it's not covered by
Ford warranty. And I said, well, I don't have a
Ford Will warranty, and I have an aftermarket service warranty
and I have I don't have an all will drive car.

(01:53:59):
And he was used, and he said, well, it doesn't matter.
Before I said I don't have all over another drive card.
He said, it doesn't matter, it's not covered under Ford warranty. Anyway,
I said, but I don't have an all wheel direct car.
And so then he was confused. So I must have
you mixed up with someone else. I'm like, okay, so

(01:54:19):
you're going to let me know when I hear about
you know, when you know what's going on. So I
started calling for a Thursday.

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
What kind of a car do you have? What kind
of a car do you have?

Speaker 21 (01:54:30):
Twenty eighteen board escape?

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
Okay, got it? Keep going, yeah, okay, sure.

Speaker 21 (01:54:37):
And so on a Thursday call to just check in,
and then I got a text message that said this
is how we prefer you deal with us. So I responded,
I did call in, but then I got a text
message and said that this is the preferred method of contact.
So Monday, no, we don't have anything.

Speaker 4 (01:54:56):
Tuesday we have a right listen wait wait, wait, wait wait,
I don't want to go through every day.

Speaker 3 (01:55:00):
Can you just bring us up today today?

Speaker 13 (01:55:03):
Okay?

Speaker 21 (01:55:03):
So today is the first day I've done anything. So
it's a ninth day. They've had the car for three
or five days, is what I was told. Ninth day,
got it?

Speaker 13 (01:55:13):
Okay?

Speaker 21 (01:55:13):
I follow their link and it tells me thirteen items
our problem.

Speaker 20 (01:55:19):
Okay.

Speaker 21 (01:55:20):
So then I say okay, and I'm looking at this link,
and then he calls while I'm reviewing this document that
they had sent me by a text, and then they
followed up by sending the exact same document via email.
And I said, okay, so let's get down the list
in order. And he said, well, that's not the order

(01:55:40):
I have. I said, well, this is a documentary. Your
a fen with me.

Speaker 11 (01:55:44):
I mean, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:55:44):
Okay, where does it stand right now?

Speaker 21 (01:55:50):
Fifty seventy dollars and and yeah, it was the the
check engine Life.

Speaker 3 (01:56:01):
Now did they already do the work? Did they already
do the work?

Speaker 18 (01:56:05):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:56:06):
No, they did not.

Speaker 4 (01:56:07):
And they're recommending hold on, hold on, They're recommending eight
thousand dollars in work.

Speaker 21 (01:56:14):
Yes, they have thirteen items that they say need to
be worked on, none of which that I can tell
are the check engine life. Because they said the Bread
and Check Engine Life came on.

Speaker 20 (01:56:26):
It is because they're.

Speaker 3 (01:56:26):
Okay, rodent, how many items does eight grand represent thirteen items? Thirteen? Okay?
Now what are those items right.

Speaker 21 (01:56:42):
Front?

Speaker 13 (01:56:42):
Break?

Speaker 21 (01:56:43):
Breake flush. I don't have it in front of me.
I'm trying to give it in front of me so
I can read it to you.

Speaker 15 (01:56:51):
I can you get.

Speaker 3 (01:56:53):
It in front of you.

Speaker 4 (01:56:53):
I'll come right back to you. It's important. Get it
in front of you. Three h three seven one three
talks seven one three eight two five five. Let's get
Kevin Caulkin on if we can for this three oh
three seven to one three A two five five. As
I said, we have more coming up on the Troubleshooter Show.
Dan McKenzie can help you with a will within a state,
with a state planning, or anything in between.

Speaker 3 (01:57:13):
He's creative, he's.

Speaker 4 (01:57:14):
Very very hands on, and he's very very local and
personal and has a small firm to really super serve
his clients. McKenzie Law. That's Dan McKenzie. Just a great guy.
If you're looking for an estate plan, give him a call.
Eight three three co plans eight three three co plans

(01:57:41):
Go with a sure thing. Denver's best roofer excel Roofing
dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison,
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out Now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer

(01:58:03):
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hi Tom Martine,
you're a troubleshooter. Okay, so Lourie Kevin Calkins with us
our expert shared in autotech dot com. Laurie took her

(01:58:27):
Ford escape to groove and they came up. Her engine
light was on. They came up with eight grand worth
of suggestions for thirteen items, and I said, could you
tell us what those items were? And I want I
want Kevin to listen.

Speaker 3 (01:58:43):
So they came up.

Speaker 21 (01:58:44):
They've had it nineties, yeah, ninetays and I today is
the first day.

Speaker 4 (01:58:50):
Tell us, tell us very slowly, tell us the thirteen items.

Speaker 21 (01:58:56):
Okay, they have break job replace jobs, wrong rotors installed
on vehicles, too small, and pads overlap rotors nine hundred
twenty five dollars in eighty one cents, keep going, break
flush okay, okay, break flush one.

Speaker 3 (01:59:17):
Motor okay, go past the brakes.

Speaker 4 (01:59:20):
Now, let's just suffice it to say breaks keep going.

Speaker 21 (01:59:25):
Oh okay, okay, motor mount front wrong mounts warm leaking.
Four h five seventy seven battery replacement.

Speaker 3 (01:59:34):
Okay, keep going one.

Speaker 21 (01:59:36):
Sixty battery sixty six oil press it sending unit replacements
seven ninety five EF.

Speaker 3 (01:59:43):
Five Wait wait, wait, what is that oil sender? Oil pressure?
Got it? Okay?

Speaker 21 (01:59:49):
Sending unit replacement? If I cleaned five spark plug replacement?
If they don't tell me how many spark plugs they
just said that three seventy eight seventy one kept going
service stuck?

Speaker 3 (02:00:08):
How How how many miles on this car?

Speaker 21 (02:00:13):
Ninety six thousand miles? And it's been certain.

Speaker 3 (02:00:16):
And if you had regular maintenance done to it?

Speaker 21 (02:00:19):
Yes, that's correct, And I have all the maintenance records.

Speaker 3 (02:00:23):
You've had regular maintenance? I grew four done.

Speaker 21 (02:00:28):
No no, no, no, it was done through a different efforts,
through different different entities.

Speaker 4 (02:00:37):
How how often do you go in for service? How
often do you go in for service.

Speaker 21 (02:00:44):
Before the the number or the date, by the time
of the number, or the date, number of miles driven,
or the date to have the next oil.

Speaker 3 (02:00:53):
Change, or no, I got it, I got it. No,
I get it, I get it.

Speaker 4 (02:00:57):
Okay, So okay, because all of this, you know, I
don't even know what they mean, wrong breaks, but it
could be.

Speaker 3 (02:01:04):
And then they said, yeah, wrong breaks. I have no
idea what that is, and huh, yeah I know. And
then they said.

Speaker 4 (02:01:16):
Breaks motor mount, battery, oil pressure center. By the way,
I believe you want to know what caused the engine light?

Speaker 3 (02:01:23):
Keep going?

Speaker 4 (02:01:23):
So what I'm hearing now is breaks breaks, motormount battery,
oil pressure center, spark plugs, transmission flush, what else?

Speaker 8 (02:01:33):
They're not?

Speaker 21 (02:01:33):
Housing replacements, possible coolant link. And then there's a It
doesn't say what it is. It just has the part number.
It says lower shield damage that's thirty two. Then they
also have what was that?

Speaker 3 (02:01:51):
What was that for?

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
That?

Speaker 3 (02:01:54):
A lower lower shield.

Speaker 21 (02:01:56):
Lower damp the shield damage, But it just has a
part number. It doesn't say what what?

Speaker 3 (02:02:01):
Yeah, okay, what else? Keep going? Keep going?

Speaker 21 (02:02:03):
Thermost housing replacement possible?

Speaker 3 (02:02:06):
Yeah I got that six Yeah, got it?

Speaker 13 (02:02:11):
Cool?

Speaker 21 (02:02:12):
Okay? The check engine light default they think it's the auxilary.
This is what the bulb of the light is. Auxilary
coolant pump intermittent sticking. Four hundred and eighty nine dollars
and ninety sets. They say that is part of the
light coming on and all ambient air temperature, air charge

(02:02:36):
tool or sensor wiring has roady damage.

Speaker 16 (02:02:42):
That.

Speaker 21 (02:02:42):
Okay, well sixty.

Speaker 4 (02:02:44):
Now here's what I want you to do, is your car?
Is your car drivable?

Speaker 11 (02:02:49):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (02:02:52):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:02:53):
Now are they going to charge you if you want
to just pick it up and say I don't want any.

Speaker 3 (02:02:57):
Of it done?

Speaker 21 (02:02:57):
Yes, they want to charge me. Again, what are they
going to charge?

Speaker 3 (02:03:02):
What are they going to charge? What are they going
to charge?

Speaker 21 (02:03:06):
Twenty ninety five just to get my key in my car?
Also put a mechanic's plain.

Speaker 4 (02:03:13):
Wait a minute, So they want to charge you two
hundred and twenty Please let me ask the question.

Speaker 3 (02:03:18):
I got to get this out.

Speaker 4 (02:03:19):
How much if you want to pick it up today?

Speaker 21 (02:03:25):
Yes, two hundred and twenty nine dollars and ninety five cents.
And the cost of that they're putting for a diagnostic,
primary diagnostic, which I've been asking ever since the beginning.

Speaker 4 (02:03:39):
Okay, that Okay, hold on, that's not unreasonable. Listen, I
want you to take if you pay for that, I
want you to pay for it, and I want you
to get the list, and I want you to go
to Shardan Auto.

Speaker 3 (02:03:51):
I want you to go to Shardan Auto Tech.

Speaker 4 (02:03:55):
Okay, I'm telling you I would not get it done there.

Speaker 3 (02:04:00):
I would absolutely.

Speaker 4 (02:04:01):
I'm not telling I'm not telling you you don't need it,
but you need to get You need to get these
items looked at because if in fact there, you know,
I want him to verify what you really need and
what you don't need, and then and then you decide
what to do.

Speaker 3 (02:04:18):
Sure, we won't for that, and he won't even charge
you for that. But Lorie, yeah, where are you located?

Speaker 21 (02:04:28):
Generally that's the wrong, but I will come.

Speaker 4 (02:04:33):
Okay, okay, it's it's it's but you still need to
go there no matter what, because look, you just need
to go there.

Speaker 3 (02:04:40):
And this is honest and good assessment.

Speaker 4 (02:04:43):
And then we'll report. And it's it's on on Wadsworth.
It's on Collfax, west of Wadsworth. You can get the
exact address when you call them. Three oh three four
five five seventy two forty two three o three four

(02:05:06):
seventy forty two. Kachina, make sure she gets that off
the air. Kevin, thank you very much, appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (02:05:12):
We we we really.

Speaker 4 (02:05:14):
We really need to do that, okay, So Kevin, I
appreciate us. Kevin Calkin three oh three. And remember they're good,
honest people. They can even handle the road and damage
the electrical damage three oh three, four five five seventy
two forty two. Go with a sure thing Denver's best

(02:05:36):
roofer Excel Roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent
until you're content. Time for an insurance check up free,
no obligation. In comparison, call Compass Insurance paying too much
your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now
three oh three, seven to seven to one help. You'll
think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand

(02:05:58):
the real estate Man dot com to list your home
with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen
twenty two. I'm Tom Martino. You're a troubleshooter, Ernie. What's
going on with you?

Speaker 3 (02:06:12):
Ernie? What can we do?

Speaker 8 (02:06:15):
Tom? You remember you called me? You're on your way,
you say you don't call it a dude. What's your name?

Speaker 20 (02:06:23):
Rock?

Speaker 3 (02:06:25):
Yes, American Restoration.

Speaker 4 (02:06:28):
I talked to him at detail and I thought Mark
could handled this with you guys. Let me explain this
in a nutshell. Let me just explain it real quick.
You had a water loss at your home.

Speaker 3 (02:06:39):
Is that right?

Speaker 8 (02:06:42):
Yes, he said I have. He went in and he'd taken.

Speaker 7 (02:06:48):
All the.

Speaker 3 (02:06:50):
Ernie, you had a water loss at your home. What happened?

Speaker 8 (02:06:56):
Well, what happened? Is he done a demolation and it's
still there?

Speaker 3 (02:07:00):
I know, Ernie, I'm asking what happened? What? Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:07:04):
Ernie, Please, this is very complicated and we did look
into it.

Speaker 3 (02:07:09):
Okay, you had a water loss.

Speaker 4 (02:07:11):
Is that what first caused you to call American Restoration?

Speaker 8 (02:07:17):
Well, I had some damage to my roof. I don't
know if water is.

Speaker 3 (02:07:24):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:07:25):
You got paid from insurance for a certain amount of
water loss.

Speaker 3 (02:07:28):
Is that right?

Speaker 8 (02:07:31):
Oh that's what the complication is.

Speaker 3 (02:07:34):
Oh yes, and they did.

Speaker 4 (02:07:36):
Wait a minute, they did absolutely everything you asked them
to do, but they did not finish the job because
you ran out of insurance money.

Speaker 3 (02:07:45):
Mark, can you continue this?

Speaker 10 (02:07:47):
Well, I'm pretty sure that's where it's at. But Ernie,
I haven't really talked to you about it. I talked
to Rock about it. I mean, honestly, if you had
to sum it up in a sentence, what's going on?

Speaker 13 (02:07:59):
Well?

Speaker 3 (02:08:00):
Going on?

Speaker 8 (02:08:00):
He came in and he uh, he looked at the
damage and he said it was a call about water
and mold and he's tear down all.

Speaker 3 (02:08:11):
The Did he get in touch with your insurance.

Speaker 8 (02:08:16):
Right?

Speaker 3 (02:08:17):
And then did he do the work? Did he clean
everything up?

Speaker 8 (02:08:21):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:08:22):
So what didn't he do?

Speaker 8 (02:08:26):
Well? He got all the of the God man, I'm
so sorry, Mark, I'm so excited, and this thing is
going on.

Speaker 10 (02:08:41):
But Ernie, Ernie, here, here's my understanding of it. Let
me just put this out there. Then maybe this will
be a good starting point for you. My understanding is,
and I don't know the numbers, but let's pretend your
insurance claim was ten thousand dollars, a total made up number.

Speaker 3 (02:08:57):
Rock came in and.

Speaker 10 (02:08:59):
Did work up to the point of what he was
going to get paid for at ten thousand dollars, some
of the work that was included in that amount. Instead
of doing that work, he did other work for you
that at the insurance company was not going to pay for.
Is that correct or incorrect.

Speaker 8 (02:09:20):
I think correct.

Speaker 10 (02:09:21):
Okay, here's what I tom. This is going to be
just too hard to do on the air. What I
would really like to do is have like Dmitri or
Deputy Bou or deputy Doc to call up and it's
going to take about an hour long conversation with him
knowing you're out.

Speaker 3 (02:09:38):
I think Dmitri.

Speaker 4 (02:09:39):
I think Dmitri or actually Bo would be perfect for
the Actually Bo, do you want to do it?

Speaker 18 (02:09:45):
Yes, I'm happy to give Ernie a call and get
to the bottom of this and get it straightened out.

Speaker 4 (02:09:50):
Now here is let me explain what I think is
going on. Ernie is basically saying that American Restoration got
paid in full and did not complete the If I
had to summarize it is that it Ernie, they got
paid in full and did not complete the job.

Speaker 3 (02:10:07):
Is that right?

Speaker 8 (02:10:08):
That's the way I look at it.

Speaker 10 (02:10:10):
Right, Well, well, hold on, no, there's a big important
part there though. I want to understand, since we're on
the air right now, did they literally get paid in
full or are you guys withholding some payment.

Speaker 8 (02:10:25):
We are holding the check on it.

Speaker 3 (02:10:30):
That's what I'm saying. This seems so convoluted.

Speaker 4 (02:10:33):
Okay, I get it, Mark, Mark, let me handle right
this real quick, Ernie.

Speaker 3 (02:10:39):
How much money are you withholding?

Speaker 8 (02:10:42):
The check is for seventeen thousand dollars?

Speaker 4 (02:10:46):
Okay, you're withholding seventeen Okay, hold on, here's what I
need to know.

Speaker 3 (02:10:51):
How much have they been paid so far?

Speaker 8 (02:10:54):
Nothing?

Speaker 4 (02:10:57):
So American Restoration has not been paid a dime.

Speaker 8 (02:11:03):
No, not by me.

Speaker 3 (02:11:04):
No, how about your insurance? Did your insurance pay them directly?

Speaker 8 (02:11:10):
No? They they sent a check. They have to be
signed by.

Speaker 3 (02:11:13):
Me and the Okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (02:11:15):
Then my next question, why do you feel, Ernie? They
don't they they haven't earned a dime. Why do you
feel that.

Speaker 8 (02:11:24):
I don't feel that. I don't feel it.

Speaker 3 (02:11:27):
Then why haven't you paid? Why haven't they been?

Speaker 21 (02:11:30):
Ernie?

Speaker 3 (02:11:31):
Really?

Speaker 4 (02:11:31):
I need you to listen truly answer my question. Why
haven't you paid them anything?

Speaker 8 (02:11:39):
Because there's no partial payment thing. I can do what
they sent.

Speaker 4 (02:11:46):
Okay, So here's what I want to know, Ernie. Here, Ernie,
you got paid seventeen thousand from your insurance?

Speaker 3 (02:11:53):
Is that correct?

Speaker 8 (02:11:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:11:57):
And you're not okay, that's a yes or no. Yes.

Speaker 4 (02:12:01):
Now you're not paying American Restoration because you believe they
did not do seventeen thousand dollars worth of work.

Speaker 8 (02:12:13):
Right, Tom, here's what you got to understand. I am
legally blind. I can't see my daughter as she has
to do sign my checks. You know, she a power attorney.

Speaker 4 (02:12:26):
Ernie Ernie, listen, I understand, sir. I love you, You've
been listening to me for years. But I need to
get this out. You have not paid them seventeen thousand
because you believe they have not yet earned the entire
seventeen thousand.

Speaker 3 (02:12:45):
Is that right?

Speaker 8 (02:12:48):
That's right?

Speaker 3 (02:12:50):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:12:51):
Now here's what I want to know, by your estimation,
only your estimation, no nothing else but your opinion. How
much have they earned so far?

Speaker 8 (02:13:07):
Probably a third of that?

Speaker 3 (02:13:11):
M hmm. What have they done so far?

Speaker 8 (02:13:15):
They came in and my basement has uh it's finished
with partly finished it, it had it.

Speaker 4 (02:13:27):
I want to know what they did, Ernie, Ernie, Ernie.
I'm going to keep you on track. I need to
know what did they do so far?

Speaker 8 (02:13:40):
They they brought a crew in and they took out
all the uh, they script the whole basement, most of
it down and hauled out and they called it the
demolition part.

Speaker 3 (02:13:56):
Okay, okay, then what then?

Speaker 8 (02:14:00):
What and then they, uh, they said they couldn't complete
it because they needed to. I don't know if they
were gonna ask the insurance for more money, but they
had said the electrical part need to be done and
they couldn't. Uh, they had to get What I understood

(02:14:23):
was that they had to get, uh get permission from
the insurance company to pay the additional The electrical company
says that, okay, they needed they can't complete the job
until the electrics electrician electricianal part is done.

Speaker 3 (02:14:42):
Okay, And what about that? Is that true?

Speaker 8 (02:14:48):
Right? I don't know. I don't know how. Like I said,
I think we got.

Speaker 3 (02:14:52):
Tomorrow, Thomas, Now hold on, hold on.

Speaker 4 (02:14:55):
So they said they could not complete it because it
needed additional electrical work and probably more money, right right, good, Okay,
hold on.

Speaker 3 (02:15:08):
So now hold on.

Speaker 4 (02:15:09):
So you're withholding the seventeen thousand because you do not
believe the you're withholding the seventeen thousand because you do
not believe they've done seventeen thousand dollars worth of work.
In your estimation, they've done about fifty five hundred dollars
in work.

Speaker 8 (02:15:30):
That's just a conversational piece I liked. I don't know
how much of it?

Speaker 3 (02:15:35):
Okay, good, We're going to have that conversation.

Speaker 4 (02:15:37):
You've told us a lot. I appreciated, Ernie. I understand
your concern. Three oh three seven one three talks seven
one three eight two five five bo. I want you
to contact American Restoration. I know Rock was quite frustrated
and he was trying to work with Mark. We need
to get details, okay, and then we need to spell
it out here. I don't think, I do not think

(02:15:58):
that American Restoration will purpose cheat anyone.

Speaker 3 (02:16:01):
I don't know what's going on. I do know this.

Speaker 4 (02:16:03):
I do know that Ernie does not understand either, and
I think we would love to talk to his daughter.

Speaker 3 (02:16:09):
That would be wonderful.

Speaker 18 (02:16:11):
I may even go out to the job and look
at it.

Speaker 3 (02:16:14):
Yes, thank you so much.

Speaker 18 (02:16:16):
Thanking Ernie.

Speaker 4 (02:16:17):
Hang in there, hang in there and we'll talk about it.
We got more coming up. Go with a sure thing
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