August 5, 2025 • 41 mins
Together, Divya Parekh and author of Mindset Unlocked, Mike Sealy explore how self-doubt quietly sabotages even the most talented leaders, learners, and dreamers—and what it really takes to break free. With practical wisdom, a dash of humor, and a whole lot of truth, Mike shows us how to shift our mindset, silence the inner critic, and step into the bold, capable version of ourselves that’s been waiting to lead.
Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Beyond Confidence Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W Park.
Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do
you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,
and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvoparks Beyond Confidence,
you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers
who have steps into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and
are living the life they want. You will learn how
(00:48):
relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.
Moving your career business forward does not have to happen
at the expense of your personal or family life or
vice versa. Learn more at www. Don't Divpork dot com
and you can connect with div at contact Dan Divpark
dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host,
(01:09):
div Park.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Good morning, listeners, It's Tuesday morning and it's great to
be here with you all. So it's been quite a
rough month for me. A lot of you know, oral pain.
I'm sure you'll have gone through it too, some you know,
oral surgery, and some a lot of things happening and
(01:32):
you might be thinking, hmmm.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Why am I bringing that up?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So what I want to share with you is that
that while I was kind of going through that, and
there was this wonderful dental assistant and the dentist, like
you know, contrary to I know most of us don't
like going to the dentists, very kind and very nice.
So the idea is that, you know, it's not just
(01:56):
you can be kind while going out of the way,
you can be kind while doing your job and bringing
that kindness over there. So thank you to everyone for
those who have got our books, and especially Expert to
Influencer and the Entrepreneur's.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Gotten And I'm excited, Yes, I'm.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Excited to share I've finished my first draft of the
Artificial Intelligence Playbook. So it's around ninety thousand words plus.
It's super excited it's gone to the editors.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
It took me quite a bit of time.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I started last year and it's today, So just super
excited about that. And if you haven't got our books,
just remember, like you know, to get our books because
they will make a difference in your life and also
they'll make a difference in an entrepreneur across the globe.
Because here's what I'll share with you. We shared the
(02:55):
profits from the book with keywa dot org. So help
us help the entrepreneurs.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Let's bring in our guest, Malcolm Mike.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Hi there, Davia, How are you good?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
How are you? Glad to have you here?
Speaker 6 (03:11):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm really looking forward to the discussion.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Absolutely so, Mike.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Do you recall a moment then somebody left a positive
mark on you, or you know, an event that happened
in your life that stands out today as a positive
memorable moment.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
Suddenly, Yeah, there's quite a few, but I think one
of the most memorable moments was being mentored and coached
for a year by a very senior executive in one
of the previous companies. I've worked in and just watching
him for a year and taking his guidance has really
(03:53):
shaped my own career. So anytime I look back at
what I've achieved, I look back at that particular a
moment which was was really special for me.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Mm And so many times we underplay the influence of
our just being present and you are saying that you
know and just watching someone shadowing them as guided your life.
So tell us, I'm sure, like you know you come
across this and you know we all here, we all
(04:24):
have that self doubt and all that. So how did
you get into the arena of the doubts area?
Speaker 6 (04:33):
Yeah, it really one of the things I recognized, particularly
as I was in my early career as a manager
and a senior manager. I always recognized these moments of
fear and anxiety I had when it either came to
(04:54):
presenting a meeting or speaking to a senior leader. I
was selected by the company at the time I used
to work for HP and I was selected on what
was known as their Accelerated Development Program for High Potential Performers.
And it's a year long program that provides all types
(05:18):
of coaching and everything, which is that previous coach I
mentioned came through that program. But the very first week
when we had the orientation, we had dinner in the
evening and I found myself sitting next to the company's
group CEO. He was also the chairman and the president
of the company, and I found myself very fast shrinking
(05:43):
in my seat, not knowing what to say, wondering why
I was there. I was doubting myself, looking for things
to say, with these messages in my mind saying be
careful what you say because you may get found out
being a fraud. You know, you don't belong here. All
of these self limited beliefs were racing through my mind
(06:06):
and causing me a lot of anxiety during its probably
about a ninety minute dinner session, and it was probably
the most significant imposter syndrome moment in my life, which
really led me on too, I need to do something
about this. I need to figure out how to overcome
some of these fears. So that's that was probably the
(06:27):
real start. But then it took me a number of
years to really start to change how I am as
a person. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
No, and here's the thing. I don't think so anybody's untouched.
I know I go through that even now. Sometimes like
most of the times, you know you are at ease
and you know how to relate to it, and there
will be something. So I'll just give a quick example.
While I was writing this previous like current book, which
(06:56):
is in the draft format, so many times like I
would literally scrap my chapter and drop it, like, hmm,
I don't think so it fits here. I know, like
I have written fourteen fifteen books and have done really
good best selling books, and yet every time I write
a book, it's a piece of you that you're putting
(07:17):
out there, and whether you're writing a book or whether
you're sitting with the CEO presenting, and it's almost like
there's something that holds us back.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
And the key is so of course I have.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Learned to deal with it in my own way, So
tell us, like, you know, how did you deal in
that moment? And what could somebody do as soon as
that Gremlins raises its head.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Yeah, it's very interesting because I think we are our
own worst enemies when it comes to self criticism. It's
always a difficult thing to get over and I had
to do a number of different things. So I went
on a speaking course. It was actually a Dell Carnegie
Speaking program that I went on. It was for eight weeks.
(08:06):
That was that was really interesting. But one of the
main things that I did was I purposely try to
put myself outside of my comfort zone as often as
I possibly could. So if it came to doing a
presentation in front of a large audience, I would put
myself up for it. And it's about putting yourself outside
(08:31):
your comfort zone and that brings you straight into a
fear zone anyway. So it's how you do with that
when you're in that fear zone, and if you can
push through the fear zone, you get into a learning
and a growth zone. If you can't, you easily retreat
back into your comfort zone where everything is, you know,
what you're familiar with. So there was a number of
(08:53):
different things that I could do over the years. But
you know, for anybody else who were out in their
selves or limiting their beliefs, they just need to think about, well,
what are the things that you've you've achieved, you know,
it's almost like looking at your confidence bank. It's it's
coming up with a number of things that you have
been successful at in the past and you have achieved,
(09:16):
and then keep telling yourself with positive affirmations that you
know you can do this, You've got this, You've done
these things in the past, so you know you have
that confidence to push forward.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Absolutely. You know that's such a good point that you mentioned.
And exposure therapy that has been known too. You know,
we all have fears and folks, if you don't have it,
kudos to you, you're blessed. But I haven't come across
anyone like I still remember reading like you know so
(09:51):
many I forget who it was. It was Angela markl
she Jeremy's chancellor that I had read something about her.
She's said that, like you know, even after being the
chancellor twice or twice, that whenever she went she over prepared.
So we all have that. That's basically so one thing,
Like you know, a lot of people think that, oh,
(10:14):
how could I have this self doubt or how could
I have.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
This limiting belief?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So can you share, like, you know, how can we
let our audience know that it is very normal to
feel and it's okay.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Yeah, absolutely, And just coming back to what you said
earlier on, I mean, absolutely everybody at some time in
their life will have imposter syndrome, and some will get
it quite regularly, you know, And it just depends on,
you know, the situation you find yourself in. Normally, when
it's in unfamiliar territory that you find yourself in, that
(10:49):
that's when this comes up. But the way to get
through it is to just have these self affirmations. Just
say to yourself, you know why you're there, Like if
you're at a meeting, for example, rather than questioning do
you belong there, just say I know I belong there
because there is value that I know I'm bringing. You know,
(11:12):
when I was on this Accelerated Development program, I was
chosen on merit because of my previous performances, but I
didn't say to myself, look, I deserve to be here
and I've proved it through performance. People are recognizing that
that performance. So for anybody who is out there, you
(11:34):
have to look at those things that look at where
your strengths are and where you have things that you
need to improve on. Don't just say I can't do this,
or don't say you know this is not for me.
It could be I can't do this yet or you know,
just just set yourself some small goals that will help
(11:55):
you to get to where you need to. So if
you're trying to learn a new skill, for example, that
you don't have in place yet, just through practice and determination,
you can get there. And it's and it goes for anything,
any any situation. You can learn how to you know,
develop that strength within you. And it might be just
(12:16):
an internal strength that you're looking for. It might be
a physical skill. But you know, with with practice and
determination and the power of positive thought, you know, having
that what's known as a growth mindset, that will really
believe it or not, that will that will get you
to where you need to get to.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Absolutely, So.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Some of our audience may be thinking like hmm, I've
thought about self doubt, but maybe in them listening about
the imposter syndrome for the first time. So can you tell,
like you know, sometimes what happens is that that little
angst before speaking is good because you know it keeps
you a lot. But how can they tell the difference
(13:03):
if they do have them past your syndrome or if
they don't.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Well, certainly imposter syndrome. Will you can tell if you've
got imposter syndrome because you start to already question whether
you can do something or not. You know, you start
to add these self limiting beliefs that you know, oh,
I don't feel ready or I don't feel like I'm
(13:28):
good enough, and you end up doing things like comparing
yourself to other people who you may view as somebody
who is a lot more capable than you are. So
you're doing all of these things, you're comparing yourself to others,
you're limiting.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Your own beliefs.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
That that's really imposter syndrome really playing out in its
strongest way. You know, So someone who don't who does
not have imposter syndrome, And I do add that everybody
has at some stage, even the most successful CEOs and
sportsmen of the world have it.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
It's just about really looking, as I mentioned earlier on
at the things that you have achieved in the past,
or just having that growth mindset that says, you know,
every opportunity is a learning and a growth opportunity for you,
so you can get better at something until you know
it becomes almost normal behavior for you.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
So yeah, yeah, no, that's.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
A really good point.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
And I want to go back to what you had
said that you felt like a fraud and that like
you know, they feel like a fake. They feel like
I'm not good enough. So these are, like, you know,
the key things also to know, like, you know, besides
what you have showed that you are experiencing imposture syndrome
(14:58):
to some extent. And one thing is to like also
to know that it's completely okay. Like you said that,
you know CEOs are experiencing and so so many times
what happens is that when people receive compliments, it's almost like, oh,
you know what, fine, I'm getting this positive comment, But
(15:19):
next time I might get found out and they're not
taking that compliment.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
What could they do in that moment?
Speaker 6 (15:26):
I would say, take that compliment and celebrate it. Also
also make a note of it, because the more compliments
that you receive, the more moments of recognition and praise
that you receive, are really helping you to increase your confidence. Now,
(15:47):
many people may get praise and confidence and things like
that and then forget about it and move on. And
then they completely forget about those things because they're only
looking at the here and now. But it's always good
to look back at the things that you have done,
the praise that you have received, the recognition that you've
received in the past. It's almost like building that up
(16:09):
as a I would call it a brag file or
a confidence bank to always help you moving forward. These
little things will make such a significant difference. And you know,
coming back to you saying earlier on about the imposter
syndrome that everybody gets, you know, sometimes that starts as
early as childhood. You know, it starts maybe at school
(16:32):
if you you know, your homework was wrong and you
had a big red F put across it. Some of
these things, do you know, I guess affect people for
quite some time, or being you know, being told you
can't have something by your parents. It's almost like we're
brought up in a world that really does not accept failure.
(16:59):
Although everybody right, but failure is almost something that you
cannot do. It's wrong, but you can learn from failure.
Failure is not the opposite of success. It's one of
the things I always say, it's actually a prerequisite of success.
It is that point when you've failed at doing something
(17:20):
is a learning opportunity for you to look at, Okay,
well I felt this time, what can I do differently
for next time to be successful next time?
Speaker 5 (17:31):
And everybody goes for it.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Sports people go for it, you know, learning to maybe
throw a football or take a penalty or whatever it
might be, until they get really good at It's about
practice as well.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Absolutely, I really like the way you put it. Failure
is a prerequisite of success. So if you've talked about
at the individual level, then you also mentioned about you know,
you were selected for the high accelerated performance. So let's
look at it from a leader's perspective, from a man
in your perspective. Yeah, and it could be a parent,
(18:04):
it could be a coach, it could be anyone. What
can people do so that I'm not saying that they're
responsible for anybody else's confidence, but what kind of environment
we can create as a society regardless. And let's if
you have a couple of examples and the managers or
other of your clients, that would be great where you're creative,
(18:25):
like you know, safe space where you are able to
give that feedback, but it is given in a way
that you're not dripping a person apart.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
I mean, you know, as a leader, and I've been
a you know, a leader managing people for many years
in my career, giving feedback is important for sure, because
if you don't give any feedback at all. Then the
individual may not know whether they're doing good or whether
they're doing bad. But it's also how you give the feedback,
(18:58):
you know, and if it's really and negative, make sure
that that is also backed up with some of the
positive things the individual has done so that they will
feel right, well, I can see the things that I'm
good at, and now I know some of the things
I've still got to improve on.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
But you're right.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
As a leader, you've got to create that safe space
where people can be open and honest. But as a leader,
you have to have a level of what I call
emotional intelligence. You have to be empathetic with the individual.
You know, everybody is different. You know, you may have
five people in your team, all doing the same job,
(19:38):
but all doing it differently. They have a different approach
to how they solve a problem. Some may take longer
than others. Some people have neurodifferences, for example, which may
have an impact on how they work and the conditions
that they work in. So as a leader, you have
to really get to know each individual and not just
(20:01):
treat them like they're a number in your organization. Get
to know their backgrounds, who they are, where their strengths
are where they need to improve, where's the best place
for you to position them in your organization that will
maximize productivity. So all of these things, will you know,
are what well I say good leaders should be doing,
because there's a lot unfortunately that don't. But I think
(20:25):
as well, having what I call a continuous learning mindset
is also very very key to anybody. You know, there's
a lot of people that may come out of college
and university and think, wow, you know, four or five
years in education, I'm done with it now. But to
(20:45):
be honest that that's only the beginning. It's only the beginning,
and you just have to keep learning and moving forward.
And that's how you can remain you know, more confident
in your own abilities and have that, you know, have
that growth mindset as opposed to having what's known as
a fixed mindset.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Absolutely learning never stops. So do you have, like, you know,
a couple of experiences from your personal leadership, whether you
were either on the receiving end or on the giving
end of a good constructive feedback.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Yeah, I mean I can do both.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
I can take you back to a story when I
used to work for HP as a manager and we
were going through this huge change with our call centers,
and one of my managers who reported to me, was
running that particular project and she had said, like, we're ready,
(21:47):
you know, to go live, and I said, right, have
you know, checked everything and done everything you've needed to do,
and it was all, yeah, we're confident, we're good to go.
Flick the switch and you know, turned on that new
system and it fell down immediately, causing so many issues
with customers not being able to get through and having
(22:09):
you know, a major impact to you know, customers and
their equipment not being fixed. I had from my own
peers people having a go at me because it had
gone wrong and it had affected their client base without
them even understanding what went wrong and why it went wrong.
(22:30):
It was just my fault. You're the responsible person for
screwing everything up. Okay. I took that on the chin.
The individual was, you know, distraught, she was really concerned,
and I said to her, listen, this is a learning experience.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Don't worry.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
What we need to do as quickly as possible is
get this fixed and turned around. That's that's the most
important thing first. We can talk about everything afterwards. But
I said to her, listen, I trust you, and I
trust we'll get this right. And just simple words like
that can make a significant difference to an individual. It
(23:11):
could be the difference between breaking someone's career or breaking
their confidence completely to giving them hope knowing that you know,
it's a learning opportunity, they'll get it right next time.
She turned out to be an amazing manager going forward.
And it's funny. It's a really strange thing because I
(23:31):
only spoke to her two weeks ago. I'm not you know,
seen her for a long time, but she actually said
to me the way that she manages her team was
the way I used to manage her.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Ah, you know, which is for me.
Speaker 6 (23:44):
It's always great to hear things like that. So there's
always a good way, I think, and a bad way
to manage. And sometimes it's a thin line.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And that's beautiful, Mike, you know, telling her, I trust
you to do it right. It's so powerful because I
have quite a few clients who come to me and
will say that they're in a new job, they're doing
really well, and then they're still feeling this imposture syndrome. Yeah,
(24:17):
because of a previous toxic boss. I mean, who had
just kind of ripped them apart. And it's so, how
can leaders be cognizant that in the moment, right, I
loved what you shared that, I trust you, I know
you will get it right. Let's focus on turning the situation,
(24:38):
you know, making sure that we can fix it, and
then we will talk about it later. So taking that
pressure away from her, how can leaders be cognizant of
that of their influence?
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Yeah, that's a very good question actually, because you know leaders,
they're all different. You know, some of the are working
under extreme pressure. You know, they have to deliver results theirselves,
and maybe that's the only thing that they're focused on.
But I think in order to be really cognizant, you've
got to if you're managing a team. Right, Not everybody
(25:17):
is geared up or set up to be a leader
of people. You know, people that move into senior positions
sometimes get there for different reasons, like their own individual
ability as a high performer and moving into management might
have been the next logical step in their career. But
(25:37):
that doesn't make you or give you the ability or
capabilities to then all of a sudden start managing people,
real people who have real lives, who have real feelings
and emotions. So there needs to be an element of
really training and learning to develop those skills first and
(26:00):
foremost as a leader. And if you can begin to
do that and begin to have that level of empathy
that I mentioned, the emotional intelligence and also cultural intelligence
plays a significant part as well as well as kind
of having as a leader that self awareness of their
selves in terms of thinking about what they say and
(26:23):
when they say things and how they say it to individuals.
I think they have to be aware of how they're
making people feel when they're you know, when they're talking
to someone and if they're trying to throw somebody under
a bus or really giving them a you know, a
good telling off. I would reflect on that. I would think,
(26:43):
you know, they need to think, Okay, what good did
that do? Did that really help the situation? It might
have solved the immediate problem, but what does it do
long term? Not just for the individual but for them
as leaders? You know, will they have respect as a leader?
You know, will people trust them as a leader. So
(27:05):
it works in it works in both directions. You know,
if leaders are not trusted or respected, they're going to
fill theirselves, you know, So you have to really build
this level of trust, teamwork, collaboration when you're managing a team.
But the trust factor is the most important because it
will make people in your team feel that they can
(27:29):
do things, they can make mistakes and you know, not
be punished for it, allow them to be a little
bit more autonomous in their working. You know, if they
don't have that, then it's very difficult to manage any
team anywhere.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, very true, very true in it.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So it's having that emotional intelligence along with a lot
of self awareness. So you mentioned a couple of really
good things that which kind of brings me to succession planning.
As you mentioned about like you know, training those leaders
just because somebody has done a good performance, and that's
the case, like you know, there are high performers. Natural
(28:10):
progression is you become manager or manager to you know,
the whole trajectory up to c suite. But then where
is the training? So as the companies are planning about
succession planning, do you have one of the experiences to
share where you know it was done in a very
(28:31):
good way that you were building not only.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Top down, but.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
Yeah, I where.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
You're having like you know, good leader AFT a good
leader aft a good leader.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Yeah, I saw that most when I was at HP
coming off the Accelerated Development Program. They had really great
training programs that develop in people. It was it was
the culture of the company. But I've worked in many
other companies where you do not always see that level
(29:06):
of management training. When someone becomes a manager, they're more
focused on the business. They're more focused on the revenues
and the costs and all of those drivers. But they're
not really focused on what's known as the softest skills
in terms of actually, you know, leading people and managing
people in the right way. It's almost like they're expected
(29:27):
that that's a given. You know, they know how to
do this stuff, and they'll get on and do it.
And I think that's where a lot of organizations, unfortunately,
do do fall down because that level of you know,
expectation that they can do the job is where the
big mistakes are being made. So there needs to be
a level of effort just to encourage managers as well.
(29:49):
And they need help. You know a lot of them
do need help. You can't blame them if they're not
being given the right level of coaching and training along
the way to become better managed. And putting them under
pressure with you know, type deadlines and targets and all
of those things. That certainly doesn't help as well, because
what it does is it it drives a particular type
(30:13):
of behavior in individuals, you know, And if you're being
rewarded for achieving financial targets, the place that you're going
to focus is on those financial targets and hitting those numbers.
You're not going to worry about anything else. Yeah, So
that's what the challenge is there.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And so given let's say you have brought a very
realistic problem that the focus is on results, the focus
is on the bottom line. So given then there may
be companies who are startup and they may not have
the budgets. On one hand, you know, they're getting to
ready to lay off people. So given all the difficult circumstances,
(30:57):
what's the minimal any organization or are the top leader
could do that could help middle to senior managers lead
the way?
Speaker 5 (31:08):
First of all is trust.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
You have to trust that if you've got a set
of middle managers that you've charged to help drive the business,
you've got to understand where they are in their journeys,
what are their strengths, what do they need to focus
on to maximize their overall potential as leaders? And I
(31:32):
think that's important. And you know, sometimes that could be
as significant as sending them off to business school, or
it could be you know, just running some facilitated workshops
to tackle you know, specific topics for example. But it's
ensuring that there is that awareness and that level of
(31:55):
education and training that is applied rather than a blanket. Hey,
we're going to do this training and it's going to
apply to everybody. It may not be required by everybody,
So you've really got to get into where you're having
those performance and discussions and evaluations with those managers. That
is a point to understand, right from a development perspective,
(32:19):
where can we maximize, Where can we help you? What
do you need to strengthen your skills? You know, rather
than just talking about the performance objectives, you've got to
talk about their development objectives as well and ensuring that
you are investing in them as individuals. You know, I
came through my careers with so many companies that had
(32:40):
a policy of saying people are our most important asset, right,
and you didn't always see that play out in an
organization unfortunately. But if people are the most important asset
of a company. These are some of the basic things
that you need to be doing.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yes, absolutely, And just to throw another wrench in that saying,
is that before people would say that right, people are
at least there would be the optics of people our assets.
And now I've seen a lot of CEOs because following
artificial intelligence so closely that and that's one of the
(33:21):
reasons I'm writing that book, Like so many CEOs are
just coming out and saying that they're actually being very
clear and open about how they're optimizing. And I'm all
for optimizing and bringing efficiency in by reducing the.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Numbers of people.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So that's been a little I don't know for myself,
Like you know, I'm a person like you know, to
take people first, a little alarming. And so now the
key is like we're coming back to like full circle
to the individual, like things are changed, and the key
is that sometimes a lot of professionals get professional dollars
(34:07):
or sometimes it may be worth investing stuff in themselves.
Speaker 6 (34:11):
What are your thoughts on Yeah, no, I totally agree.
I think self investment is important. I mentioned earlier on
that continuous learning is key. I don't think any employee
should always expect that the company should be the organization
that gives them the training that they need. You know,
(34:33):
sometimes you need to figure out for yourself what do
I need and if it's something that the company can't provide,
then you've got to work out, I need to invest
in myself if I want to get from A to B.
If I want to you know, accelerate my career with
whatever ambition it is that I have or whatever skill
is I want to get. So self investment is really
(34:57):
important for sure, and whether that comes in the way
of training, having a coach or a mentor you've got
to figure out, right, it's important enough for me to
want to pay for it myself, because hey, the return
on investment might be fivefold or tenfold going forward. You know,
(35:21):
most people when they think about self investment, the first
thing they look at is the cost. Yeah, they're not
really looking at the outcome and what that can bring
you and what then the return on investment is. They
look initially at what the initial outlay is, right, and
sometimes that can be a little bit restrictive for people.
But if you look at, well, what will the real
(35:42):
outcomes be and how will I benefit from that, then
they may realize that, wow, this could be a you know,
significant investment, a worthwhile investment to do it.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Absolutely, so you have given some very powerful nuggets, you know,
people to implement in their lives. And I'm sure you
know some of our listeners are thinking like, Okay, how
can I contact Mike? Where can I connect with him?
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Any books?
Speaker 4 (36:10):
So, and what kind of coaching you provide? So we'd
love to hear about that.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
So I've written three books, two of the most relevant
ones to the conversation we have had. One of them
is called Leadership in Action. It's a handbook really, but
it provides fifty hacks that you can do as a
leader to increase your overall experience and your inclusive leadership
(36:41):
skills going forward. The other book is called Mindset Unlocked.
This is the one that helps people who have all
of these self doubt, self limiting beliefs. It talks about
having a growth mindset and becoming a lot more positive,
and it's filled with some case studies. It's filled with
(37:02):
some of my own personal experiences like the one I
mentioned earlier on, but some of the case studies are
really important both with companies and with individuals I've got,
you know, people like Maya Angelo and Serena Williams and
Albert Einstein who have all said that they have suffered
(37:22):
from imposter syndrome.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
You know. So it's a it's a great book to.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Actually read, and the final chapter I give ten essential
tips for achieving and maintaining a growth mindset. These books
are available on Amazon. But in addition to that, as
I mentioned that, I do coaching and also some leadership
(37:49):
training as well, you can reach me out on my
LinkedIn profile or my website, which hopefully you'll you'll show
what that that is. But yeah, I don't mind anybody
reaching out to me on LinkedIn and connecting and if
they want help or advice or just want to learn
(38:10):
more about my services and what I do, I can
always set up a discovery call and you know, spend
time talking to an individual about what I can do
and figuring out whether I can actually help them. Because
I'm not saying I can always help every individual, but
for this type of thing, I'm pretty sure I can say, yeah, absolutely, And.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Would you be open to spelling on.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Your let's say, yeah. The website is www. Dot Zinc,
which is spelled x hyphen I MC dot global G
L O B A L and that's it.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
Across the ticker right there now.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
So yeah, so any other thoughts before we up?
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Yeah, I mean, this is been a great conversation, and
I'd love to say to your listeners that you know,
if you ever do have these feelings of imposter syndrome
or you're lacking in confidence, first and foremost, you are
not alone. There are so many people who are in
the same situation as you. But don't be too hard
(39:23):
on yourself. These are things that you can overcome quite comfortably,
whether that's with help, whether that's reading a book, whether
that's talking to you know, friends and people that you trust.
But really take time to kind of reflect on what
you can do and where you're stuck and how you can.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
Get out of it.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
It's never always that bad. There's always a solution, what
I would say.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
So, yeah, well, thank you for joining us, Mike, and
we issue all the best in your next endavers. Thank
you listeners for being part of the show because you
are the life and bloodness. We appreciate you and let
us know how we can serve and support you. Thank
you one for making this show technically possible.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
I will see you next time. Take care.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host,
v Park, we hope you have learned more about how
to start living the life you want. Each week on
Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced
growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During
Beyond Confidence, Vapark shares what happened to her when she
stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with
(40:36):
people across the globe. She not only coaches people how
to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually
beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want.
If you are ready to live the life you want
and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dvpark
dot com and you can connect with dvat contact at
(40:57):
dvpark dot com. We look forward to you joining us
next week.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Hmm
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We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services,
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(00:20):
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four WN Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W Park.
Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do
you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,
and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvoparks Beyond Confidence,
you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers
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(00:48):
relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.
Moving your career business forward does not have to happen
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vice versa. Learn more at www. Don't Divpork dot com
and you can connect with div at contact Dan Divpark
dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host,
(01:09):
div Park.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Good morning, listeners, It's Tuesday morning and it's great to
be here with you all. So it's been quite a
rough month for me. A lot of you know, oral pain.
I'm sure you'll have gone through it too, some you know,
oral surgery, and some a lot of things happening and
(01:32):
you might be thinking, hmmm.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Why am I bringing that up?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So what I want to share with you is that
that while I was kind of going through that, and
there was this wonderful dental assistant and the dentist, like
you know, contrary to I know most of us don't
like going to the dentists, very kind and very nice.
So the idea is that, you know, it's not just
(01:56):
you can be kind while going out of the way,
you can be kind while doing your job and bringing
that kindness over there. So thank you to everyone for
those who have got our books, and especially Expert to
Influencer and the Entrepreneur's.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Gotten And I'm excited, Yes, I'm.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Excited to share I've finished my first draft of the
Artificial Intelligence Playbook. So it's around ninety thousand words plus.
It's super excited it's gone to the editors.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
It took me quite a bit of time.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I started last year and it's today, So just super
excited about that. And if you haven't got our books,
just remember, like you know, to get our books because
they will make a difference in your life and also
they'll make a difference in an entrepreneur across the globe.
Because here's what I'll share with you. We shared the
(02:55):
profits from the book with keywa dot org. So help
us help the entrepreneurs.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Let's bring in our guest, Malcolm Mike.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Hi there, Davia, How are you good?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
How are you? Glad to have you here?
Speaker 6 (03:11):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm really looking forward to the discussion.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Absolutely so, Mike.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Do you recall a moment then somebody left a positive
mark on you, or you know, an event that happened
in your life that stands out today as a positive
memorable moment.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
Suddenly, Yeah, there's quite a few, but I think one
of the most memorable moments was being mentored and coached
for a year by a very senior executive in one
of the previous companies. I've worked in and just watching
him for a year and taking his guidance has really
(03:53):
shaped my own career. So anytime I look back at
what I've achieved, I look back at that particular a
moment which was was really special for me.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Mm And so many times we underplay the influence of
our just being present and you are saying that you
know and just watching someone shadowing them as guided your life.
So tell us, I'm sure, like you know you come
across this and you know we all here, we all
(04:24):
have that self doubt and all that. So how did
you get into the arena of the doubts area?
Speaker 6 (04:33):
Yeah, it really one of the things I recognized, particularly
as I was in my early career as a manager
and a senior manager. I always recognized these moments of
fear and anxiety I had when it either came to
(04:54):
presenting a meeting or speaking to a senior leader. I
was selected by the company at the time I used
to work for HP and I was selected on what
was known as their Accelerated Development Program for High Potential Performers.
And it's a year long program that provides all types
(05:18):
of coaching and everything, which is that previous coach I
mentioned came through that program. But the very first week
when we had the orientation, we had dinner in the
evening and I found myself sitting next to the company's
group CEO. He was also the chairman and the president
of the company, and I found myself very fast shrinking
(05:43):
in my seat, not knowing what to say, wondering why
I was there. I was doubting myself, looking for things
to say, with these messages in my mind saying be
careful what you say because you may get found out
being a fraud. You know, you don't belong here. All
of these self limited beliefs were racing through my mind
(06:06):
and causing me a lot of anxiety during its probably
about a ninety minute dinner session, and it was probably
the most significant imposter syndrome moment in my life, which
really led me on too, I need to do something
about this. I need to figure out how to overcome
some of these fears. So that's that was probably the
(06:27):
real start. But then it took me a number of
years to really start to change how I am as
a person. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
No, and here's the thing. I don't think so anybody's untouched.
I know I go through that even now. Sometimes like
most of the times, you know you are at ease
and you know how to relate to it, and there
will be something. So I'll just give a quick example.
While I was writing this previous like current book, which
(06:56):
is in the draft format, so many times like I
would literally scrap my chapter and drop it, like, hmm,
I don't think so it fits here. I know, like
I have written fourteen fifteen books and have done really
good best selling books, and yet every time I write
a book, it's a piece of you that you're putting
(07:17):
out there, and whether you're writing a book or whether
you're sitting with the CEO presenting, and it's almost like
there's something that holds us back.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
And the key is so of course I have.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Learned to deal with it in my own way, So
tell us, like, you know, how did you deal in
that moment? And what could somebody do as soon as
that Gremlins raises its head.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Yeah, it's very interesting because I think we are our
own worst enemies when it comes to self criticism. It's
always a difficult thing to get over and I had
to do a number of different things. So I went
on a speaking course. It was actually a Dell Carnegie
Speaking program that I went on. It was for eight weeks.
(08:06):
That was that was really interesting. But one of the
main things that I did was I purposely try to
put myself outside of my comfort zone as often as
I possibly could. So if it came to doing a
presentation in front of a large audience, I would put
myself up for it. And it's about putting yourself outside
(08:31):
your comfort zone and that brings you straight into a
fear zone anyway. So it's how you do with that
when you're in that fear zone, and if you can
push through the fear zone, you get into a learning
and a growth zone. If you can't, you easily retreat
back into your comfort zone where everything is, you know,
what you're familiar with. So there was a number of
(08:53):
different things that I could do over the years. But
you know, for anybody else who were out in their
selves or limiting their beliefs, they just need to think about, well,
what are the things that you've you've achieved, you know,
it's almost like looking at your confidence bank. It's it's
coming up with a number of things that you have
been successful at in the past and you have achieved,
(09:16):
and then keep telling yourself with positive affirmations that you
know you can do this, You've got this, You've done
these things in the past, so you know you have
that confidence to push forward.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Absolutely. You know that's such a good point that you mentioned.
And exposure therapy that has been known too. You know,
we all have fears and folks, if you don't have it,
kudos to you, you're blessed. But I haven't come across
anyone like I still remember reading like you know so
(09:51):
many I forget who it was. It was Angela markl
she Jeremy's chancellor that I had read something about her.
She's said that, like you know, even after being the
chancellor twice or twice, that whenever she went she over prepared.
So we all have that. That's basically so one thing,
Like you know, a lot of people think that, oh,
(10:14):
how could I have this self doubt or how could
I have.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
This limiting belief?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So can you share, like, you know, how can we
let our audience know that it is very normal to
feel and it's okay.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Yeah, absolutely, And just coming back to what you said
earlier on, I mean, absolutely everybody at some time in
their life will have imposter syndrome, and some will get
it quite regularly, you know, And it just depends on,
you know, the situation you find yourself in. Normally, when
it's in unfamiliar territory that you find yourself in, that
(10:49):
that's when this comes up. But the way to get
through it is to just have these self affirmations. Just
say to yourself, you know why you're there, Like if
you're at a meeting, for example, rather than questioning do
you belong there, just say I know I belong there
because there is value that I know I'm bringing. You know,
(11:12):
when I was on this Accelerated Development program, I was
chosen on merit because of my previous performances, but I
didn't say to myself, look, I deserve to be here
and I've proved it through performance. People are recognizing that
that performance. So for anybody who is out there, you
(11:34):
have to look at those things that look at where
your strengths are and where you have things that you
need to improve on. Don't just say I can't do this,
or don't say you know this is not for me.
It could be I can't do this yet or you know,
just just set yourself some small goals that will help
(11:55):
you to get to where you need to. So if
you're trying to learn a new skill, for example, that
you don't have in place yet, just through practice and determination,
you can get there. And it's and it goes for anything,
any any situation. You can learn how to you know,
develop that strength within you. And it might be just
(12:16):
an internal strength that you're looking for. It might be
a physical skill. But you know, with with practice and
determination and the power of positive thought, you know, having
that what's known as a growth mindset, that will really
believe it or not, that will that will get you
to where you need to get to.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Absolutely, So.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Some of our audience may be thinking like hmm, I've
thought about self doubt, but maybe in them listening about
the imposter syndrome for the first time. So can you tell,
like you know, sometimes what happens is that that little
angst before speaking is good because you know it keeps
you a lot. But how can they tell the difference
(13:03):
if they do have them past your syndrome or if
they don't.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Well, certainly imposter syndrome. Will you can tell if you've
got imposter syndrome because you start to already question whether
you can do something or not. You know, you start
to add these self limiting beliefs that you know, oh,
I don't feel ready or I don't feel like I'm
(13:28):
good enough, and you end up doing things like comparing
yourself to other people who you may view as somebody
who is a lot more capable than you are. So
you're doing all of these things, you're comparing yourself to others,
you're limiting.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Your own beliefs.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
That that's really imposter syndrome really playing out in its
strongest way. You know, So someone who don't who does
not have imposter syndrome, And I do add that everybody
has at some stage, even the most successful CEOs and
sportsmen of the world have it.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
It's just about really looking, as I mentioned earlier on
at the things that you have achieved in the past,
or just having that growth mindset that says, you know,
every opportunity is a learning and a growth opportunity for you,
so you can get better at something until you know
it becomes almost normal behavior for you.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
So yeah, yeah, no, that's.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
A really good point.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
And I want to go back to what you had
said that you felt like a fraud and that like
you know, they feel like a fake. They feel like
I'm not good enough. So these are, like, you know,
the key things also to know, like, you know, besides
what you have showed that you are experiencing imposture syndrome
(14:58):
to some extent. And one thing is to like also
to know that it's completely okay. Like you said that,
you know CEOs are experiencing and so so many times
what happens is that when people receive compliments, it's almost like, oh,
you know what, fine, I'm getting this positive comment, But
(15:19):
next time I might get found out and they're not
taking that compliment.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
What could they do in that moment?
Speaker 6 (15:26):
I would say, take that compliment and celebrate it. Also
also make a note of it, because the more compliments
that you receive, the more moments of recognition and praise
that you receive, are really helping you to increase your confidence. Now,
(15:47):
many people may get praise and confidence and things like
that and then forget about it and move on. And
then they completely forget about those things because they're only
looking at the here and now. But it's always good
to look back at the things that you have done,
the praise that you have received, the recognition that you've
received in the past. It's almost like building that up
(16:09):
as a I would call it a brag file or
a confidence bank to always help you moving forward. These
little things will make such a significant difference. And you know,
coming back to you saying earlier on about the imposter
syndrome that everybody gets, you know, sometimes that starts as
early as childhood. You know, it starts maybe at school
(16:32):
if you you know, your homework was wrong and you
had a big red F put across it. Some of
these things, do you know, I guess affect people for
quite some time, or being you know, being told you
can't have something by your parents. It's almost like we're
brought up in a world that really does not accept failure.
(16:59):
Although everybody right, but failure is almost something that you
cannot do. It's wrong, but you can learn from failure.
Failure is not the opposite of success. It's one of
the things I always say, it's actually a prerequisite of success.
It is that point when you've failed at doing something
(17:20):
is a learning opportunity for you to look at, Okay,
well I felt this time, what can I do differently
for next time to be successful next time?
Speaker 5 (17:31):
And everybody goes for it.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Sports people go for it, you know, learning to maybe
throw a football or take a penalty or whatever it
might be, until they get really good at It's about
practice as well.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Absolutely, I really like the way you put it. Failure
is a prerequisite of success. So if you've talked about
at the individual level, then you also mentioned about you know,
you were selected for the high accelerated performance. So let's
look at it from a leader's perspective, from a man
in your perspective. Yeah, and it could be a parent,
(18:04):
it could be a coach, it could be anyone. What
can people do so that I'm not saying that they're
responsible for anybody else's confidence, but what kind of environment
we can create as a society regardless. And let's if
you have a couple of examples and the managers or
other of your clients, that would be great where you're creative,
(18:25):
like you know, safe space where you are able to
give that feedback, but it is given in a way
that you're not dripping a person apart.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
I mean, you know, as a leader, and I've been
a you know, a leader managing people for many years
in my career, giving feedback is important for sure, because
if you don't give any feedback at all. Then the
individual may not know whether they're doing good or whether
they're doing bad. But it's also how you give the feedback,
(18:58):
you know, and if it's really and negative, make sure
that that is also backed up with some of the
positive things the individual has done so that they will
feel right, well, I can see the things that I'm
good at, and now I know some of the things
I've still got to improve on.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
But you're right.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
As a leader, you've got to create that safe space
where people can be open and honest. But as a leader,
you have to have a level of what I call
emotional intelligence. You have to be empathetic with the individual.
You know, everybody is different. You know, you may have
five people in your team, all doing the same job,
(19:38):
but all doing it differently. They have a different approach
to how they solve a problem. Some may take longer
than others. Some people have neurodifferences, for example, which may
have an impact on how they work and the conditions
that they work in. So as a leader, you have
to really get to know each individual and not just
(20:01):
treat them like they're a number in your organization. Get
to know their backgrounds, who they are, where their strengths
are where they need to improve, where's the best place
for you to position them in your organization that will
maximize productivity. So all of these things, will you know,
are what well I say good leaders should be doing,
because there's a lot unfortunately that don't. But I think
(20:25):
as well, having what I call a continuous learning mindset
is also very very key to anybody. You know, there's
a lot of people that may come out of college
and university and think, wow, you know, four or five
years in education, I'm done with it now. But to
(20:45):
be honest that that's only the beginning. It's only the beginning,
and you just have to keep learning and moving forward.
And that's how you can remain you know, more confident
in your own abilities and have that, you know, have
that growth mindset as opposed to having what's known as
a fixed mindset.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Absolutely learning never stops. So do you have, like, you know,
a couple of experiences from your personal leadership, whether you
were either on the receiving end or on the giving
end of a good constructive feedback.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Yeah, I mean I can do both.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
I can take you back to a story when I
used to work for HP as a manager and we
were going through this huge change with our call centers,
and one of my managers who reported to me, was
running that particular project and she had said, like, we're ready,
(21:47):
you know, to go live, and I said, right, have
you know, checked everything and done everything you've needed to do,
and it was all, yeah, we're confident, we're good to go.
Flick the switch and you know, turned on that new
system and it fell down immediately, causing so many issues
with customers not being able to get through and having
(22:09):
you know, a major impact to you know, customers and
their equipment not being fixed. I had from my own
peers people having a go at me because it had
gone wrong and it had affected their client base without
them even understanding what went wrong and why it went wrong.
(22:30):
It was just my fault. You're the responsible person for
screwing everything up. Okay. I took that on the chin.
The individual was, you know, distraught, she was really concerned,
and I said to her, listen, this is a learning experience.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Don't worry.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
What we need to do as quickly as possible is
get this fixed and turned around. That's that's the most
important thing first. We can talk about everything afterwards. But
I said to her, listen, I trust you, and I
trust we'll get this right. And just simple words like
that can make a significant difference to an individual. It
(23:11):
could be the difference between breaking someone's career or breaking
their confidence completely to giving them hope knowing that you know,
it's a learning opportunity, they'll get it right next time.
She turned out to be an amazing manager going forward.
And it's funny. It's a really strange thing because I
(23:31):
only spoke to her two weeks ago. I'm not you know,
seen her for a long time, but she actually said
to me the way that she manages her team was
the way I used to manage her.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Ah, you know, which is for me.
Speaker 6 (23:44):
It's always great to hear things like that. So there's
always a good way, I think, and a bad way
to manage. And sometimes it's a thin line.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And that's beautiful, Mike, you know, telling her, I trust
you to do it right. It's so powerful because I
have quite a few clients who come to me and
will say that they're in a new job, they're doing
really well, and then they're still feeling this imposture syndrome. Yeah,
(24:17):
because of a previous toxic boss. I mean, who had
just kind of ripped them apart. And it's so, how
can leaders be cognizant that in the moment, right, I
loved what you shared that, I trust you, I know
you will get it right. Let's focus on turning the situation,
(24:38):
you know, making sure that we can fix it, and
then we will talk about it later. So taking that
pressure away from her, how can leaders be cognizant of
that of their influence?
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Yeah, that's a very good question actually, because you know leaders,
they're all different. You know, some of the are working
under extreme pressure. You know, they have to deliver results theirselves,
and maybe that's the only thing that they're focused on.
But I think in order to be really cognizant, you've
got to if you're managing a team. Right, Not everybody
(25:17):
is geared up or set up to be a leader
of people. You know, people that move into senior positions
sometimes get there for different reasons, like their own individual
ability as a high performer and moving into management might
have been the next logical step in their career. But
(25:37):
that doesn't make you or give you the ability or
capabilities to then all of a sudden start managing people,
real people who have real lives, who have real feelings
and emotions. So there needs to be an element of
really training and learning to develop those skills first and
(26:00):
foremost as a leader. And if you can begin to
do that and begin to have that level of empathy
that I mentioned, the emotional intelligence and also cultural intelligence
plays a significant part as well as well as kind
of having as a leader that self awareness of their
selves in terms of thinking about what they say and
(26:23):
when they say things and how they say it to individuals.
I think they have to be aware of how they're
making people feel when they're you know, when they're talking
to someone and if they're trying to throw somebody under
a bus or really giving them a you know, a
good telling off. I would reflect on that. I would think,
(26:43):
you know, they need to think, Okay, what good did
that do? Did that really help the situation? It might
have solved the immediate problem, but what does it do
long term? Not just for the individual but for them
as leaders? You know, will they have respect as a leader?
You know, will people trust them as a leader. So
(27:05):
it works in it works in both directions. You know,
if leaders are not trusted or respected, they're going to
fill theirselves, you know, So you have to really build
this level of trust, teamwork, collaboration when you're managing a team.
But the trust factor is the most important because it
will make people in your team feel that they can
(27:29):
do things, they can make mistakes and you know, not
be punished for it, allow them to be a little
bit more autonomous in their working. You know, if they
don't have that, then it's very difficult to manage any
team anywhere.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, very true, very true in it.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So it's having that emotional intelligence along with a lot
of self awareness. So you mentioned a couple of really
good things that which kind of brings me to succession planning.
As you mentioned about like you know, training those leaders
just because somebody has done a good performance, and that's
the case, like you know, there are high performers. Natural
(28:10):
progression is you become manager or manager to you know,
the whole trajectory up to c suite. But then where
is the training? So as the companies are planning about
succession planning, do you have one of the experiences to
share where you know it was done in a very
(28:31):
good way that you were building not only.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Top down, but.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
Yeah, I where.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
You're having like you know, good leader AFT a good
leader aft a good leader.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Yeah, I saw that most when I was at HP
coming off the Accelerated Development Program. They had really great
training programs that develop in people. It was it was
the culture of the company. But I've worked in many
other companies where you do not always see that level
(29:06):
of management training. When someone becomes a manager, they're more
focused on the business. They're more focused on the revenues
and the costs and all of those drivers. But they're
not really focused on what's known as the softest skills
in terms of actually, you know, leading people and managing
people in the right way. It's almost like they're expected
(29:27):
that that's a given. You know, they know how to
do this stuff, and they'll get on and do it.
And I think that's where a lot of organizations, unfortunately,
do do fall down because that level of you know,
expectation that they can do the job is where the
big mistakes are being made. So there needs to be
a level of effort just to encourage managers as well.
(29:49):
And they need help. You know a lot of them
do need help. You can't blame them if they're not
being given the right level of coaching and training along
the way to become better managed. And putting them under
pressure with you know, type deadlines and targets and all
of those things. That certainly doesn't help as well, because
what it does is it it drives a particular type
(30:13):
of behavior in individuals, you know, And if you're being
rewarded for achieving financial targets, the place that you're going
to focus is on those financial targets and hitting those numbers.
You're not going to worry about anything else. Yeah, So
that's what the challenge is there.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And so given let's say you have brought a very
realistic problem that the focus is on results, the focus
is on the bottom line. So given then there may
be companies who are startup and they may not have
the budgets. On one hand, you know, they're getting to
ready to lay off people. So given all the difficult circumstances,
(30:57):
what's the minimal any organization or are the top leader
could do that could help middle to senior managers lead
the way?
Speaker 5 (31:08):
First of all is trust.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
You have to trust that if you've got a set
of middle managers that you've charged to help drive the business,
you've got to understand where they are in their journeys,
what are their strengths, what do they need to focus
on to maximize their overall potential as leaders? And I
(31:32):
think that's important. And you know, sometimes that could be
as significant as sending them off to business school, or
it could be you know, just running some facilitated workshops
to tackle you know, specific topics for example. But it's
ensuring that there is that awareness and that level of
(31:55):
education and training that is applied rather than a blanket. Hey,
we're going to do this training and it's going to
apply to everybody. It may not be required by everybody,
So you've really got to get into where you're having
those performance and discussions and evaluations with those managers. That
is a point to understand, right from a development perspective,
(32:19):
where can we maximize, Where can we help you? What
do you need to strengthen your skills? You know, rather
than just talking about the performance objectives, you've got to
talk about their development objectives as well and ensuring that
you are investing in them as individuals. You know, I
came through my careers with so many companies that had
(32:40):
a policy of saying people are our most important asset, right,
and you didn't always see that play out in an
organization unfortunately. But if people are the most important asset
of a company. These are some of the basic things
that you need to be doing.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yes, absolutely, And just to throw another wrench in that saying,
is that before people would say that right, people are
at least there would be the optics of people our assets.
And now I've seen a lot of CEOs because following
artificial intelligence so closely that and that's one of the
(33:21):
reasons I'm writing that book, Like so many CEOs are
just coming out and saying that they're actually being very
clear and open about how they're optimizing. And I'm all
for optimizing and bringing efficiency in by reducing the.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Numbers of people.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So that's been a little I don't know for myself,
Like you know, I'm a person like you know, to
take people first, a little alarming. And so now the
key is like we're coming back to like full circle
to the individual, like things are changed, and the key
is that sometimes a lot of professionals get professional dollars
(34:07):
or sometimes it may be worth investing stuff in themselves.
Speaker 6 (34:11):
What are your thoughts on Yeah, no, I totally agree.
I think self investment is important. I mentioned earlier on
that continuous learning is key. I don't think any employee
should always expect that the company should be the organization
that gives them the training that they need. You know,
(34:33):
sometimes you need to figure out for yourself what do
I need and if it's something that the company can't provide,
then you've got to work out, I need to invest
in myself if I want to get from A to B.
If I want to you know, accelerate my career with
whatever ambition it is that I have or whatever skill
is I want to get. So self investment is really
(34:57):
important for sure, and whether that comes in the way
of training, having a coach or a mentor you've got
to figure out, right, it's important enough for me to
want to pay for it myself, because hey, the return
on investment might be fivefold or tenfold going forward. You know,
(35:21):
most people when they think about self investment, the first
thing they look at is the cost. Yeah, they're not
really looking at the outcome and what that can bring
you and what then the return on investment is. They
look initially at what the initial outlay is, right, and
sometimes that can be a little bit restrictive for people.
But if you look at, well, what will the real
(35:42):
outcomes be and how will I benefit from that, then
they may realize that, wow, this could be a you know,
significant investment, a worthwhile investment to do it.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Absolutely, so you have given some very powerful nuggets, you know,
people to implement in their lives. And I'm sure you
know some of our listeners are thinking like, Okay, how
can I contact Mike? Where can I connect with him?
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Any books?
Speaker 4 (36:10):
So, and what kind of coaching you provide? So we'd
love to hear about that.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
So I've written three books, two of the most relevant
ones to the conversation we have had. One of them
is called Leadership in Action. It's a handbook really, but
it provides fifty hacks that you can do as a
leader to increase your overall experience and your inclusive leadership
(36:41):
skills going forward. The other book is called Mindset Unlocked.
This is the one that helps people who have all
of these self doubt, self limiting beliefs. It talks about
having a growth mindset and becoming a lot more positive,
and it's filled with some case studies. It's filled with
(37:02):
some of my own personal experiences like the one I
mentioned earlier on, but some of the case studies are
really important both with companies and with individuals I've got,
you know, people like Maya Angelo and Serena Williams and
Albert Einstein who have all said that they have suffered
(37:22):
from imposter syndrome.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
You know. So it's a it's a great book to.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Actually read, and the final chapter I give ten essential
tips for achieving and maintaining a growth mindset. These books
are available on Amazon. But in addition to that, as
I mentioned that, I do coaching and also some leadership
(37:49):
training as well, you can reach me out on my
LinkedIn profile or my website, which hopefully you'll you'll show
what that that is. But yeah, I don't mind anybody
reaching out to me on LinkedIn and connecting and if
they want help or advice or just want to learn
(38:10):
more about my services and what I do, I can
always set up a discovery call and you know, spend
time talking to an individual about what I can do
and figuring out whether I can actually help them. Because
I'm not saying I can always help every individual, but
for this type of thing, I'm pretty sure I can say, yeah, absolutely, And.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Would you be open to spelling on.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Your let's say, yeah. The website is www. Dot Zinc,
which is spelled x hyphen I MC dot global G
L O B A L and that's it.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
Across the ticker right there now.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
So yeah, so any other thoughts before we up?
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Yeah, I mean, this is been a great conversation, and
I'd love to say to your listeners that you know,
if you ever do have these feelings of imposter syndrome
or you're lacking in confidence, first and foremost, you are
not alone. There are so many people who are in
the same situation as you. But don't be too hard
(39:23):
on yourself. These are things that you can overcome quite comfortably,
whether that's with help, whether that's reading a book, whether
that's talking to you know, friends and people that you trust.
But really take time to kind of reflect on what
you can do and where you're stuck and how you can.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
Get out of it.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
It's never always that bad. There's always a solution, what
I would say.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
So, yeah, well, thank you for joining us, Mike, and
we issue all the best in your next endavers. Thank
you listeners for being part of the show because you
are the life and bloodness. We appreciate you and let
us know how we can serve and support you. Thank
you one for making this show technically possible.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
I will see you next time. Take care.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host,
v Park, we hope you have learned more about how
to start living the life you want. Each week on
Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced
growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During
Beyond Confidence, Vapark shares what happened to her when she
stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with
(40:36):
people across the globe. She not only coaches people how
to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually
beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want.
If you are ready to live the life you want
and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dvpark
dot com and you can connect with dvat contact at
(40:57):
dvpark dot com. We look forward to you joining us
next week.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Hmm
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