December 16, 2025 • 29 mins
On this episode of Five to Thrive Live, we will navigate the stresses of the Holidays. While Holidays can be joyful, they can also be stressful. In this episode, our guest, Dr. Ellen Melton, a licensed professional Counselor, shares how an integrative, whole-person approach can help you stay centered, care for your mental health, and truly enjoy the season.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guests should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to five to Thrive Live, a podcast about thriving
for those who have been affected by cancer and chronic disease.
I'm doctor Lisau Schuler and a co host with my
good friend Carolyn Gazella. You can find all past show
podcasts on every major podcast outlet and also the schedule
on our web site, which is ithriveplan dot com. So
(01:03):
tonight I will be talking with doctor Ellen Milton, who
I have the privilege of working with at Sonoran University.
As some of you may know, I'm the president of
Snorin University and doctor Melton is the director of our
mental health counseling program. And we're going to be tapping
into her expertise about a very important and timely topic,
(01:24):
and that's holiday blues. So before we get to her,
let me tell you a little bit more about doctor Melton.
She's been a licensed professional counselor since twenty ten and
a licensed professional counselor supervisor since twenty twelve. She maintains
a private counseling practice where she sees clients in a
variety of situations with a variety of issues. Doctor Melton's
(01:47):
heart of service is always with her clients and with
her students and interns, and she believes that her most
important role with her client's interns and students is serving
as an ally and an advocate. And she currently is
the program director and an associate professor and the Master
of Science Clinical Mental Health Counseling program that we have
here at Sonoran University. So before we start talking with
(02:10):
doctor Milton, I want to thank our sponsors who make
this podcast possible. First, Cetria, a patented form of glutathion
clinically proven to raise blood gluteothion levels. Glutethion is the
master antioxidant in the body and is the body's primary
defense against free radicals. You can learn more at Cetria
(02:30):
glutithion dot com. We also thank cognizanceticoline, which helps to
keep the brain's energy producing centers firing on all cylinders.
So if you would like to enhance your brain function, memory, focus,
and attention, look for Cognizant on the label of your
favorite dietary supplement for brain health, and you can learn
more at Cognizan dot com. We also think pro thrivers
(02:54):
wellness supplements, including pro Thriver's Wellness Sleep, a supplement which
combines higher than new dose of melatonin and other sleep
supporting natural ingredients which is designed specifically for thrivers. You
can find pro Thrivers Well in the Sleep at Preurformulas
dot com. And finally, doctor or Hears Probiotics, a best
selling probiotic for over thirty years with twelve probiotic strains
(03:18):
which are shelf stable due to their unique fermentation process
and no refrigeration is required. You can learn more at
doctor or Heart Probiotics dot com. So with that, Doctor Melton,
welcome to five to Thrive Live.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Thank you so much and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Absolutely so, I want to jump right into this important
topic because this is a beautiful time of year, but
it's also a very stressful time of year, and you know,
I think you probably see a lot of this. So
what are some of the mixed emotions that you commonly
see in your patients?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You know, the holidays can be wonderful and hard at
the same time. The holiday season often brings people mix
of joy, nostalgia, stress, and expectation, and it's really common
to feel conflicting emotions at this time, excitement along with sadness, anxiety,
and gratitude, and certainly paired often with exhaustion and fatigue.
(04:17):
Acknowledging that duality is the first step toward caring for yourself.
You're allowed to feel all things and none are bad
or wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Duality the tension of opposites, I think is operational so
often so you know where this surface is. A lot
is in family gatherings for lots of reasons. Of course,
I'm wondering if you have any insight on how people
can recognize these dynamics surfacing as they experience the holidays.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Oh. Absolutely, family gatherings can bring connection, laughter, and tradition,
but they can also resurface old dynamics and emotional pressure.
You may experience warmth and belonging in one moment and
intention or overwhelm the next moment, and both can be true.
So giving yourself permission to notice what you're feeling without judgment,
(05:15):
set an intention to take care of yourself ahead of time,
and decide ahead of time what you can reasonably commit
to doing.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Mm hmm, yep, that's very good. So just sort of
I'm going to add a little bit to that perhaps
and here and listening to what you're saying, I'm thinking
that also implies a sense of being gentle with oneself
and kind of giving oneself a little grace as they
experience these ups and downs.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Absolutely practicing kindness to yourself. I'm taking small breaks, practicing
kind phrases such as I need a moment, I'm stepping
outside for fresh air. I'll join back in shortly, planning
for moments of rest and building in small recovery breaks
during gatherings and even during travel.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah. Great, So how can someone tell the difference between
sort of normal and amusing air quotes holiday blues versus
when it might be time to really seek some professional
mental health support? So something a little bit more serious.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
When those feelings of sadness, emptiness or hopelessness lasts longer
than expected. When you can ask yourself if this is
interfering with my ability to live my life after the holidays, right,
and am I coping in ways that concern me? Then
(06:45):
you might be looking at a place where you might
need a little bit of help, right, and some reframe
after or during the holidays. It doesn't mean that you're
weak or doesn't mean that you're failing. It can often
accumulated stress going into the holidays. We all have that
going into the holidays, unresolved grief for loss, burnout, and
(07:09):
then some underlying depression that our anxiety that maybe comes
to the forefront at this time.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, okay, good. I think that's a really important thing
you said, which is if the feelings of anxiety, for example,
or depression go on longer then one expects they should.
So for example, if it's holiday blues, you're with your family,
you're not normally spending so much time to your family,
you feel some anxiety start to surface, and then the
(07:40):
family gathering dissipates or you get a break and the
anxiety goes away. That's that's good, or that's okay, that's normal.
But if it just persists and persists into the new year,
then probably need some help, some support.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, if it interferes with the person's ability to function,
then that is probably the largest red.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Flag function at work, function in their day to day activities.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
In any important area of their life, work, relationships, school, right,
whatever those functions that they have to perform as an
adult are. If it's interfering with their ability to function
in one important area, then they might want to contact
somebody like me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Okay, so let's take this from an integrative health perspective,
which is what we try to focus on on this show.
So you, I know, have deep training and we'll get
to this in terms of counseling. But what roles do
things like sleep, movement, nutrition, play, and supporting mental health,
especially during the holiday season.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Well, they're huge, right. We have to care for our
bodies during these very stressful times, so prioritizing hydration, nourishing meals, movement,
being able to get up and move around, sleeping as
best you can. Holidays often interfere with a lot of
these things. We may prioritize hydration and nourishing meals at
(09:14):
home in our daily lives, but then when we get
to moms or we get to wherever we're going, it's
really easy to fall into habits that we're not used to.
Maybe a little too much alcohol, a little too much turkey, right,
not getting up and moving like we usually do, not
being in a place where we're comfortable sleeping, practicing well
(09:38):
being directly supports emotional resilience, So if you can keep
those two in balance, right, then you can make it
through these holidays.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah. You know, it's so interesting because hydration. I'm glad
you brought that up at the forefront. I think that's
something people don't recognize as much as perhaps they sh
do it in terms of the impact that being dehydrated
has on not only what we would consider to be
like physical health, but in fact mental health and wellbeing. So, yeah,
(10:11):
that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Absolutely. And alcohol is very dehydrating.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's also a central nervous system depressant. Right, So if
someone is already experiencing feelings of anxiety, stress, depression, right,
alcohol can just exacerbate those feelings.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Okay, good, good tip. So what are some sort of
transition a little bit and maybe you could share some simple,
sort of practical mind body practices that people can use
what I call just in time or in the moment
when they start to feel overwhelmed. They have the wherewithal
to recognize that they're starting to feel overwhelmed. They're in
(10:55):
the midst of their family gathering. Is there anything they
can do to make avert moving into a more deeper
feeling of anxiety or depression.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Well, and I think it comes down to again setting
an intention to take care of yourself ahead of time,
knowing what you can and can't do, knowing what you're
willing to do and not to do right, and then
practicing good boundaries. As a counselor, I couldn't make it
through this if I did not mention boundaries right and
(11:26):
knowing what your boundaries are right, and what healthy boundaries are,
and what healthy boundaries are not. They're not control right
of other people. They're choosing for ourselves how we're going
to spend our time and how we're going to take
care of ourselves, and that includes things like eating and
(11:46):
drinking and just being a part of conversations. If your
family is very conservative and you don't lean that way
and these conversations make you uncomfortable, remove yourself from this situation.
We have so much power and control of ourselves, but
when we go home often and we get back into
(12:09):
that family dynamic, we kind of forget all of those
things right, and we fall into the trap of other
people's expectations. What the expectations of the holidays are supposed
to look like or trying to recreate or create the
perfect holiday. I ran across something the other day and
(12:30):
it really stuck with me, and it's expectations are not invoices, right,
And that was just massive for me to really think
about that. Expectations are not invoices that have to be paid.
Our expectations are not Their expectations are not right, They're
(12:51):
simply expectations. And so maintaining those healthy boundaries around our
bodies and around what our bodies need at this time
time is paramount. Recognizing what those are for ourselves and
knowing that it's okay to enforce those and it's okay
to say no and supporting yourself is not selfish. It's
(13:15):
actually what makes deeper connection with other people possible. You know.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I want to just dive into this a little bit
more so. Boundaries so important, as you said, but I
would have to say easier said than done, I mean,
especially during the holidays. Like the example, I love that
quote too, that expectations are not invoices, meaning that just
because let's say in this case, a family member might
have an expectation of how you participate in the family
(13:46):
gathering doesn't mean you have to do it that way.
But I think when people get together with family of origin,
a lot of as you eluded, a lot of the
sort of patterns resurface, and it's hard. It's hard for
people to sometimes create boundaries. So I mean, how do
you counsel your clients on ways that they can be
(14:13):
sort of take that courageous step, if you will, to
assert their own needs first.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Right, And that comes with experience. You may not be
able to do it the first time you go home
right after you graduate from college, but as you become
an adult and have your own family and you're enforcing
your boundaries and your family's boundaries. Right, Helping people understand
that the choices are all theirs. They hold all the cards,
(14:43):
so choosing how and when and with whom they spend
their time is their choice and their option. And that
includes how to pick and choose where you're going to
spend what holiday, with what family. Right. It includes a
lot of different things, communicating ahead of time about your schedules,
(15:06):
about your traditions, because as we grow up and have
children and grandchildren of our own, we create our own traditions.
So being able to take those home to that family
of origin and into those dynamics are huge, right, and
maybe it's about creating new traditions in the family of origin, right,
(15:28):
bringing those home and saying here's what we do when
we'd like to do it here. And then protecting again,
protecting your own time for rest, recovery, Protecting time for
personal or family rituals, making decisions based on capacity rather
than expectations, Limiting exposure to conversations or dynamics that are
(15:53):
emotionally harmful, Allowing yourself to be yourself, going up authentically
and being able to be brave enough and have the
radical candor right to say I'm not comfortable doing this
right now, but maybe after a while.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Mm hmm, yeah, so good. And I think that you
know this is this is not easy, what you're what
you're talking about, No, it's not. But the payout is great,
you absolutely, and I think it's it's it's not just
(16:38):
for the person. So the person who's you know, kind
of getting their courage together to establish their sort of assert,
if you, for lack of a better word, their own
means in a situation, even though that might at first
be off putting to their family member or the family
at large. In the end, I think that gives the
(16:59):
family or the other a chance to really see the
person on their own terms and to develop a deeper,
more authentic relationship, which will also pay off in the
long run.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Absolutely, to grow the system, to grow the system, to
accept everyone.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, right, So what about for people who during the
holidays might be experiencing you know, pretty significant grief loneliness
comes up for a lot of people. There's oftentimes, for
whatever reason, I've noticed in my clinical practice that there's
can be a lot of death associated around this time
(17:38):
of year. So there's you know, definitely can be loss
that people are re experiencing just or other big life changes.
So they're kind of in a state already then they're
in the holidays. How can they do you have any
ways that they can still be in those legitimate experiences
of grief, loneliness, et cetera, but also feel the holidays
(18:02):
in a way that gives them maybe some peace, some joy,
some comfort.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Finding ways to honor their grief, finding ways to honor
their feelings. You know, the first year after I lost
my mom, we set a place for her at the table,
and we went around the table and we shared a
memory and it brought up a lot of tears. Even
on a very happy day, it brought up some tears,
(18:29):
but we were honoring those feelings of grief. So finding
ways to honor your feelings, whether those are grief or sadness, loss,
whatever those feelings are. Shoving feelings down is not a
good way to deal with them. They come out sideways.
I see people in my practice who've tried desperately to
(18:51):
shove those feelings out, and they will not be denied.
So finding ways to honor them openly and authentically and
again helping the system grow to accept that and to
embrace that.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, so good that that's a really good piece of advice.
I think just not suppressing so important. And I think
most others would really appreciate the opportunity to either experience
their own grief if it's a shared grief, or at
the very least to just support and be there while
(19:29):
that you know, you're experiencing the grief yourself. So yeah,
that's a really important thing for people to think about,
speaking of showing up for feeling kind of supportive for others,
you know, just showing up for others while at the
same time honoring your own limits is another challenge I
think at this time of the year, and so I'm
(19:50):
wondering if you have any advice around this area.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
You know, my advice to the people that I work
with who struggle with holidays is to touch base and
stay grounded to those people in their system outside right
who can help them stay grounded. Just a quick message
or check in can remind someone that they're not navigating
(20:18):
these things alone. They're not navigating a difficult dynamic. They're
not navigating joy or sadness or grief alone. So helping
people stay connected not only with the people that are there,
but with the people that may not be there for
them at that time, but they can still stay connected.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
To Yeah good. I wanted to take a moment to
give you a chance to describe to people what You're
a licensed professional counselor and you're running a master's program
in mental health counseling. So for somebody who's not familiar
(20:59):
with this field, what number one would they experience if
they went to see somebody who had a professional counseling
master's degree? And number two who goes into this program, like,
tell us a little bit about this. If you wouldn't mind.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
People go into a counseling program because they've recognized in
themselves that they want to be there on a deep
emotional level for other people. Not giving advice, right, not
telling someone how to navigate everything that they're going through
to me. And what I tell my students is that
(21:41):
what we do is we're connecting dots, because if an
individual sitting across from me could connect their own dots,
they wouldn't be there. So students come into this program
and they'll they'll tell me things like I'm a good listener.
Everyone says I'm a good lie. Everyone comes to me
(22:01):
for advice. We quickly have to work on that idea
that in this field, right, it's all just about listening,
or that it's about giving advice. It's really about the
connection that we have with our clients. It doesn't really
matter how we do this work, and there are lots
(22:22):
of different modalities and interventions and ways to do this work.
None of that matters at the end of the day.
What matters at the end of the day are those
two people in that room and the therapeutic human emotional
connection between the two of them. So students that come
into this program are looking for that deep connection. They're
(22:45):
looking to make that connection with other people. Knowing that
simply by sitting with someone hearing them deeply, responding authentically right,
that helps individuals make decisions for themselves and then connecting
dots across their experiences.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Mm hmm, beautifully said. So let's take it now from
the client's perspective. They walk into a counselor's office, what
would be I don't know, this is horrible to generalize,
but I'm going to ask you to do it anyway.
What would be a typical kind of experience for them?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
A typical first experience is going to be a pretty
generic getting to know that individual. One of the courses
that students take in a counseling program is research, and
they learn about collecting data. In that first session, we're
collecting data. We're collecting data in the form of stories,
(23:48):
in the form of life experiences. So when that person
sits down and we get the introductions out of the way,
we may say something like, tell me why you're here, right,
tell me what brought you in today, and tell me
what you're looking for from this experience, and that lets
(24:08):
me know then what questions that I can ask them,
So I'm hoping that they'll tell me their story, and
they usually do, and that's what we're looking for in
those first few sessions. We deepen as we get more data, right,
But at the end of the day, this is very
kind of research oriented in that we're collecting a lot
(24:32):
of data from our clients in order for us to
form schemas and theories of the patterns of their relationships
and their systems so that we can help them change
the patterns that they're not happy with. Did that make sense?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, very much so. Sounds like it would be good
for almost everyone.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Oh, definitely.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So let's go back to our theme of holidays for
a moment, and if someone listening wanted to create sort
of a holiday mental health plan for themselves and perhaps
their family, what would be some of the key elements.
I think you've alluded to this already, but what would
be some of the key elements that you would encourage
them to include?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record,
setting that intention for them to take care of themselves
ahead of time, deciding ahead of time what they're willing
to tolerate and what they're not willing to tolerate. Deciding
ahead of time what their schedule can look like and
what they can commit to right, and then managing their
(25:43):
own expectations so that it's okay if traditions evolve or
involve other people or other things, or if the holidays
don't match past years, focusing on what's meaningful for them
for now right rather than trying to recreate something perfect.
(26:05):
The holidays invite complexity, and they can be a time
of connection and joy, but also a time of stress
or emotional heaviness. Holding space for all of those emotions
allows people to move through the holiday season with more authenticity,
more care, and more intention and better self care.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
M HM very good advice, and I think that that
should hit home with most of our listeners in one
way or another. So ellen any final thoughts that you
would like to leave with our listeners.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
The final thought that I want to leave is something
that I alluded to before. Supporting yourself and setting that
intention and thinking about those boundaries is not selfish. It
is actually what allows us to make those connections with
the people that we love and care about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
M Setting boundaries is not selfish. That's a good quote.
And your other one is expectations are not invoices another
great one, and I'm going to add in there I
think we have talked about, but just this idea of
being gentle with oneself and practicing a little forgiveness because
(27:32):
you know, this is not easy stuff that we're talking about,
and so it's going to take a little trial and
error and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So this has been a great show. I really want
to thank you for taking time out of what I
know for sure is a very busy work life and
home life. And I so appreciate working with you at
Sonor and I'm really delighted that I had the chance
to showcase you you and your obvious obviously big heart
and mind to this topic. And where can our listeners
(28:07):
find out more about you? Do you have a website
or any social media that you would like to share.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Currently I do not have a website. I practice through
bright Side, which is a psychotherapy consortium. But my email,
my personal email is E. L. L E one two
four two at gmail dot com and I'm happy to
connect with individuals wonderful.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, that wraps up this episode of five to Thrive
Live Again. I want to thank our sponsors, First pro
Thrivers wellness sleep formula. I also thank Cetria gluta thion,
the superior glue to thion, cognizance of Colling for brain health,
and doctor Ohira Award winning shelf stable probiotic. And most importantly,
(28:59):
I want to thank you listener for joining us. It
is the holiday season, so if you're listening to this
before the holidays, I hope that you have beautiful, peaceful
and meaningful holidays. If you're catching this after the holidays,
I hope that you have a beautiful new year ahead
of you. And, as we always say, may you experience joy,
(29:21):
laughter and love. It's time to thrive. Everyone, have a
great night.
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guests should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to five to Thrive Live, a podcast about thriving
for those who have been affected by cancer and chronic disease.
I'm doctor Lisau Schuler and a co host with my
good friend Carolyn Gazella. You can find all past show
podcasts on every major podcast outlet and also the schedule
on our web site, which is ithriveplan dot com. So
(01:03):
tonight I will be talking with doctor Ellen Milton, who
I have the privilege of working with at Sonoran University.
As some of you may know, I'm the president of
Snorin University and doctor Melton is the director of our
mental health counseling program. And we're going to be tapping
into her expertise about a very important and timely topic,
(01:24):
and that's holiday blues. So before we get to her,
let me tell you a little bit more about doctor Melton.
She's been a licensed professional counselor since twenty ten and
a licensed professional counselor supervisor since twenty twelve. She maintains
a private counseling practice where she sees clients in a
variety of situations with a variety of issues. Doctor Melton's
(01:47):
heart of service is always with her clients and with
her students and interns, and she believes that her most
important role with her client's interns and students is serving
as an ally and an advocate. And she currently is
the program director and an associate professor and the Master
of Science Clinical Mental Health Counseling program that we have
here at Sonoran University. So before we start talking with
(02:10):
doctor Milton, I want to thank our sponsors who make
this podcast possible. First, Cetria, a patented form of glutathion
clinically proven to raise blood gluteothion levels. Glutethion is the
master antioxidant in the body and is the body's primary
defense against free radicals. You can learn more at Cetria
(02:30):
glutithion dot com. We also thank cognizanceticoline, which helps to
keep the brain's energy producing centers firing on all cylinders.
So if you would like to enhance your brain function, memory, focus,
and attention, look for Cognizant on the label of your
favorite dietary supplement for brain health, and you can learn
more at Cognizan dot com. We also think pro thrivers
(02:54):
wellness supplements, including pro Thriver's Wellness Sleep, a supplement which
combines higher than new dose of melatonin and other sleep
supporting natural ingredients which is designed specifically for thrivers. You
can find pro Thrivers Well in the Sleep at Preurformulas
dot com. And finally, doctor or Hears Probiotics, a best
selling probiotic for over thirty years with twelve probiotic strains
(03:18):
which are shelf stable due to their unique fermentation process
and no refrigeration is required. You can learn more at
doctor or Heart Probiotics dot com. So with that, Doctor Melton,
welcome to five to Thrive Live.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Thank you so much and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Absolutely so, I want to jump right into this important
topic because this is a beautiful time of year, but
it's also a very stressful time of year, and you know,
I think you probably see a lot of this. So
what are some of the mixed emotions that you commonly
see in your patients?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You know, the holidays can be wonderful and hard at
the same time. The holiday season often brings people mix
of joy, nostalgia, stress, and expectation, and it's really common
to feel conflicting emotions at this time, excitement along with sadness, anxiety,
and gratitude, and certainly paired often with exhaustion and fatigue.
(04:17):
Acknowledging that duality is the first step toward caring for yourself.
You're allowed to feel all things and none are bad
or wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Duality the tension of opposites, I think is operational so
often so you know where this surface is. A lot
is in family gatherings for lots of reasons. Of course,
I'm wondering if you have any insight on how people
can recognize these dynamics surfacing as they experience the holidays.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Oh. Absolutely, family gatherings can bring connection, laughter, and tradition,
but they can also resurface old dynamics and emotional pressure.
You may experience warmth and belonging in one moment and
intention or overwhelm the next moment, and both can be true.
So giving yourself permission to notice what you're feeling without judgment,
(05:15):
set an intention to take care of yourself ahead of time,
and decide ahead of time what you can reasonably commit
to doing.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Mm hmm, yep, that's very good. So just sort of
I'm going to add a little bit to that perhaps
and here and listening to what you're saying, I'm thinking
that also implies a sense of being gentle with oneself
and kind of giving oneself a little grace as they
experience these ups and downs.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Absolutely practicing kindness to yourself. I'm taking small breaks, practicing
kind phrases such as I need a moment, I'm stepping
outside for fresh air. I'll join back in shortly, planning
for moments of rest and building in small recovery breaks
during gatherings and even during travel.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah. Great, So how can someone tell the difference between
sort of normal and amusing air quotes holiday blues versus
when it might be time to really seek some professional
mental health support? So something a little bit more serious.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
When those feelings of sadness, emptiness or hopelessness lasts longer
than expected. When you can ask yourself if this is
interfering with my ability to live my life after the holidays, right,
and am I coping in ways that concern me? Then
(06:45):
you might be looking at a place where you might
need a little bit of help, right, and some reframe
after or during the holidays. It doesn't mean that you're
weak or doesn't mean that you're failing. It can often
accumulated stress going into the holidays. We all have that
going into the holidays, unresolved grief for loss, burnout, and
(07:09):
then some underlying depression that our anxiety that maybe comes
to the forefront at this time.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, okay, good. I think that's a really important thing
you said, which is if the feelings of anxiety, for example,
or depression go on longer then one expects they should.
So for example, if it's holiday blues, you're with your family,
you're not normally spending so much time to your family,
you feel some anxiety start to surface, and then the
(07:40):
family gathering dissipates or you get a break and the
anxiety goes away. That's that's good, or that's okay, that's normal.
But if it just persists and persists into the new year,
then probably need some help, some support.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, if it interferes with the person's ability to function,
then that is probably the largest red.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Flag function at work, function in their day to day activities.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
In any important area of their life, work, relationships, school, right,
whatever those functions that they have to perform as an
adult are. If it's interfering with their ability to function
in one important area, then they might want to contact
somebody like me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Okay, so let's take this from an integrative health perspective,
which is what we try to focus on on this show.
So you, I know, have deep training and we'll get
to this in terms of counseling. But what roles do
things like sleep, movement, nutrition, play, and supporting mental health,
especially during the holiday season.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Well, they're huge, right. We have to care for our
bodies during these very stressful times, so prioritizing hydration, nourishing meals, movement,
being able to get up and move around, sleeping as
best you can. Holidays often interfere with a lot of
these things. We may prioritize hydration and nourishing meals at
(09:14):
home in our daily lives, but then when we get
to moms or we get to wherever we're going, it's
really easy to fall into habits that we're not used to.
Maybe a little too much alcohol, a little too much turkey, right,
not getting up and moving like we usually do, not
being in a place where we're comfortable sleeping, practicing well
(09:38):
being directly supports emotional resilience, So if you can keep
those two in balance, right, then you can make it
through these holidays.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah. You know, it's so interesting because hydration. I'm glad
you brought that up at the forefront. I think that's
something people don't recognize as much as perhaps they sh
do it in terms of the impact that being dehydrated
has on not only what we would consider to be
like physical health, but in fact mental health and wellbeing. So, yeah,
(10:11):
that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Absolutely. And alcohol is very dehydrating.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's also a central nervous system depressant. Right, So if
someone is already experiencing feelings of anxiety, stress, depression, right,
alcohol can just exacerbate those feelings.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Okay, good, good tip. So what are some sort of
transition a little bit and maybe you could share some simple,
sort of practical mind body practices that people can use
what I call just in time or in the moment
when they start to feel overwhelmed. They have the wherewithal
to recognize that they're starting to feel overwhelmed. They're in
(10:55):
the midst of their family gathering. Is there anything they
can do to make avert moving into a more deeper
feeling of anxiety or depression.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Well, and I think it comes down to again setting
an intention to take care of yourself ahead of time,
knowing what you can and can't do, knowing what you're
willing to do and not to do right, and then
practicing good boundaries. As a counselor, I couldn't make it
through this if I did not mention boundaries right and
(11:26):
knowing what your boundaries are right, and what healthy boundaries are,
and what healthy boundaries are not. They're not control right
of other people. They're choosing for ourselves how we're going
to spend our time and how we're going to take
care of ourselves, and that includes things like eating and
(11:46):
drinking and just being a part of conversations. If your
family is very conservative and you don't lean that way
and these conversations make you uncomfortable, remove yourself from this situation.
We have so much power and control of ourselves, but
when we go home often and we get back into
(12:09):
that family dynamic, we kind of forget all of those
things right, and we fall into the trap of other
people's expectations. What the expectations of the holidays are supposed
to look like or trying to recreate or create the
perfect holiday. I ran across something the other day and
(12:30):
it really stuck with me, and it's expectations are not invoices, right,
And that was just massive for me to really think
about that. Expectations are not invoices that have to be paid.
Our expectations are not Their expectations are not right, They're
(12:51):
simply expectations. And so maintaining those healthy boundaries around our
bodies and around what our bodies need at this time
time is paramount. Recognizing what those are for ourselves and
knowing that it's okay to enforce those and it's okay
to say no and supporting yourself is not selfish. It's
(13:15):
actually what makes deeper connection with other people possible. You know.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I want to just dive into this a little bit
more so. Boundaries so important, as you said, but I
would have to say easier said than done, I mean,
especially during the holidays. Like the example, I love that
quote too, that expectations are not invoices, meaning that just
because let's say in this case, a family member might
have an expectation of how you participate in the family
(13:46):
gathering doesn't mean you have to do it that way.
But I think when people get together with family of origin,
a lot of as you eluded, a lot of the
sort of patterns resurface, and it's hard. It's hard for
people to sometimes create boundaries. So I mean, how do
you counsel your clients on ways that they can be
(14:13):
sort of take that courageous step, if you will, to
assert their own needs first.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Right, And that comes with experience. You may not be
able to do it the first time you go home
right after you graduate from college, but as you become
an adult and have your own family and you're enforcing
your boundaries and your family's boundaries. Right, Helping people understand
that the choices are all theirs. They hold all the cards,
(14:43):
so choosing how and when and with whom they spend
their time is their choice and their option. And that
includes how to pick and choose where you're going to
spend what holiday, with what family. Right. It includes a
lot of different things, communicating ahead of time about your schedules,
(15:06):
about your traditions, because as we grow up and have
children and grandchildren of our own, we create our own traditions.
So being able to take those home to that family
of origin and into those dynamics are huge, right, and
maybe it's about creating new traditions in the family of origin, right,
(15:28):
bringing those home and saying here's what we do when
we'd like to do it here. And then protecting again,
protecting your own time for rest, recovery, Protecting time for
personal or family rituals, making decisions based on capacity rather
than expectations, Limiting exposure to conversations or dynamics that are
(15:53):
emotionally harmful, Allowing yourself to be yourself, going up authentically
and being able to be brave enough and have the
radical candor right to say I'm not comfortable doing this
right now, but maybe after a while.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Mm hmm, yeah, so good. And I think that you
know this is this is not easy, what you're what
you're talking about, No, it's not. But the payout is great,
you absolutely, and I think it's it's it's not just
(16:38):
for the person. So the person who's you know, kind
of getting their courage together to establish their sort of assert,
if you, for lack of a better word, their own
means in a situation, even though that might at first
be off putting to their family member or the family
at large. In the end, I think that gives the
(16:59):
family or the other a chance to really see the
person on their own terms and to develop a deeper,
more authentic relationship, which will also pay off in the
long run.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Absolutely, to grow the system, to grow the system, to
accept everyone.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, right, So what about for people who during the
holidays might be experiencing you know, pretty significant grief loneliness
comes up for a lot of people. There's oftentimes, for
whatever reason, I've noticed in my clinical practice that there's
can be a lot of death associated around this time
(17:38):
of year. So there's you know, definitely can be loss
that people are re experiencing just or other big life changes.
So they're kind of in a state already then they're
in the holidays. How can they do you have any
ways that they can still be in those legitimate experiences
of grief, loneliness, et cetera, but also feel the holidays
(18:02):
in a way that gives them maybe some peace, some joy,
some comfort.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Finding ways to honor their grief, finding ways to honor
their feelings. You know, the first year after I lost
my mom, we set a place for her at the table,
and we went around the table and we shared a
memory and it brought up a lot of tears. Even
on a very happy day, it brought up some tears,
(18:29):
but we were honoring those feelings of grief. So finding
ways to honor your feelings, whether those are grief or sadness, loss,
whatever those feelings are. Shoving feelings down is not a
good way to deal with them. They come out sideways.
I see people in my practice who've tried desperately to
(18:51):
shove those feelings out, and they will not be denied.
So finding ways to honor them openly and authentically and
again helping the system grow to accept that and to
embrace that.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, so good that that's a really good piece of advice.
I think just not suppressing so important. And I think
most others would really appreciate the opportunity to either experience
their own grief if it's a shared grief, or at
the very least to just support and be there while
(19:29):
that you know, you're experiencing the grief yourself. So yeah,
that's a really important thing for people to think about,
speaking of showing up for feeling kind of supportive for others,
you know, just showing up for others while at the
same time honoring your own limits is another challenge I
think at this time of the year, and so I'm
(19:50):
wondering if you have any advice around this area.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
You know, my advice to the people that I work
with who struggle with holidays is to touch base and
stay grounded to those people in their system outside right
who can help them stay grounded. Just a quick message
or check in can remind someone that they're not navigating
(20:18):
these things alone. They're not navigating a difficult dynamic. They're
not navigating joy or sadness or grief alone. So helping
people stay connected not only with the people that are there,
but with the people that may not be there for
them at that time, but they can still stay connected.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
To Yeah good. I wanted to take a moment to
give you a chance to describe to people what You're
a licensed professional counselor and you're running a master's program
in mental health counseling. So for somebody who's not familiar
(20:59):
with this field, what number one would they experience if
they went to see somebody who had a professional counseling
master's degree? And number two who goes into this program, like,
tell us a little bit about this. If you wouldn't mind.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
People go into a counseling program because they've recognized in
themselves that they want to be there on a deep
emotional level for other people. Not giving advice, right, not
telling someone how to navigate everything that they're going through
to me. And what I tell my students is that
(21:41):
what we do is we're connecting dots, because if an
individual sitting across from me could connect their own dots,
they wouldn't be there. So students come into this program
and they'll they'll tell me things like I'm a good listener.
Everyone says I'm a good lie. Everyone comes to me
(22:01):
for advice. We quickly have to work on that idea
that in this field, right, it's all just about listening,
or that it's about giving advice. It's really about the
connection that we have with our clients. It doesn't really
matter how we do this work, and there are lots
(22:22):
of different modalities and interventions and ways to do this work.
None of that matters at the end of the day.
What matters at the end of the day are those
two people in that room and the therapeutic human emotional
connection between the two of them. So students that come
into this program are looking for that deep connection. They're
(22:45):
looking to make that connection with other people. Knowing that
simply by sitting with someone hearing them deeply, responding authentically right,
that helps individuals make decisions for themselves and then connecting
dots across their experiences.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Mm hmm, beautifully said. So let's take it now from
the client's perspective. They walk into a counselor's office, what
would be I don't know, this is horrible to generalize,
but I'm going to ask you to do it anyway.
What would be a typical kind of experience for them?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
A typical first experience is going to be a pretty
generic getting to know that individual. One of the courses
that students take in a counseling program is research, and
they learn about collecting data. In that first session, we're
collecting data. We're collecting data in the form of stories,
(23:48):
in the form of life experiences. So when that person
sits down and we get the introductions out of the way,
we may say something like, tell me why you're here, right,
tell me what brought you in today, and tell me
what you're looking for from this experience, and that lets
(24:08):
me know then what questions that I can ask them,
So I'm hoping that they'll tell me their story, and
they usually do, and that's what we're looking for in
those first few sessions. We deepen as we get more data, right,
But at the end of the day, this is very
kind of research oriented in that we're collecting a lot
(24:32):
of data from our clients in order for us to
form schemas and theories of the patterns of their relationships
and their systems so that we can help them change
the patterns that they're not happy with. Did that make sense?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, very much so. Sounds like it would be good
for almost everyone.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Oh, definitely.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So let's go back to our theme of holidays for
a moment, and if someone listening wanted to create sort
of a holiday mental health plan for themselves and perhaps
their family, what would be some of the key elements.
I think you've alluded to this already, but what would
be some of the key elements that you would encourage
them to include?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record,
setting that intention for them to take care of themselves
ahead of time, deciding ahead of time what they're willing
to tolerate and what they're not willing to tolerate. Deciding
ahead of time what their schedule can look like and
what they can commit to right, and then managing their
(25:43):
own expectations so that it's okay if traditions evolve or
involve other people or other things, or if the holidays
don't match past years, focusing on what's meaningful for them
for now right rather than trying to recreate something perfect.
(26:05):
The holidays invite complexity, and they can be a time
of connection and joy, but also a time of stress
or emotional heaviness. Holding space for all of those emotions
allows people to move through the holiday season with more authenticity,
more care, and more intention and better self care.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
M HM very good advice, and I think that that
should hit home with most of our listeners in one
way or another. So ellen any final thoughts that you
would like to leave with our listeners.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
The final thought that I want to leave is something
that I alluded to before. Supporting yourself and setting that
intention and thinking about those boundaries is not selfish. It
is actually what allows us to make those connections with
the people that we love and care about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
M Setting boundaries is not selfish. That's a good quote.
And your other one is expectations are not invoices another
great one, and I'm going to add in there I
think we have talked about, but just this idea of
being gentle with oneself and practicing a little forgiveness because
(27:32):
you know, this is not easy stuff that we're talking about,
and so it's going to take a little trial and
error and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So this has been a great show. I really want
to thank you for taking time out of what I
know for sure is a very busy work life and
home life. And I so appreciate working with you at
Sonor and I'm really delighted that I had the chance
to showcase you you and your obvious obviously big heart
and mind to this topic. And where can our listeners
(28:07):
find out more about you? Do you have a website
or any social media that you would like to share.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Currently I do not have a website. I practice through
bright Side, which is a psychotherapy consortium. But my email,
my personal email is E. L. L E one two
four two at gmail dot com and I'm happy to
connect with individuals wonderful.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, that wraps up this episode of five to Thrive
Live Again. I want to thank our sponsors, First pro
Thrivers wellness sleep formula. I also thank Cetria gluta thion,
the superior glue to thion, cognizance of Colling for brain health,
and doctor Ohira Award winning shelf stable probiotic. And most importantly,
(28:59):
I want to thank you listener for joining us. It
is the holiday season, so if you're listening to this
before the holidays, I hope that you have beautiful, peaceful
and meaningful holidays. If you're catching this after the holidays,
I hope that you have a beautiful new year ahead
of you. And, as we always say, may you experience joy,
(29:21):
laughter and love. It's time to thrive. Everyone, have a
great night.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.