May 27, 2025 • 29 mins
The liver is one of the hardest working organs in the human body performing hundreds of critical functions necessary for optimal health. It's also important to have the liver function properly during and after cancer treatment. On this show, Lise and Karolyn will describe how to support the liver so it can help you get through treatment and thrive after your cancer diagnosis.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello, this is Five to Thrive Live on doctor Lisa
Schuller and I'm joined by my awesome co host, Carolyn Gazilla. Carolyn,
how are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I am doing great, Lease, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
A little bits? To be honest, I've been on time
all day, which is a little unusual for me, as
you may or may not know, and then write until
now that I was a little bit late, and so
you know, I could not have a perfect track record today.
It just didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, that's okay. Well, you know after the holiday and
you're easing back in and I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I totally get it. Well, I appreciate your grace, Thank
you your bet.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Okay, So what is our topic today, Lise?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You know we are going to talk about the liver
and I love this topic. I have to a little
confession to make, which is that if I had chosen
not to become a nature pathic physician, and if I
had further chosen not to specialize in nature pathic oncology,
I think I might have specialized in hepatology, which is
the study of liver disease, only because the liver is
(01:49):
so fascinating and so integral to our health and well being.
And I think that, particularly in the world in which
we live, where there's so many toxic insults, the liver
has become even more and more important. So we're going
to dive in and talk about the liver.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I love this topic. I love this topic. But first
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Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yes, indeed, we love our sponsors. And Carolyn, you know
what I'm going to have you start us off because
I bet, in preparation for our show tonight, that you've
stored up some fun facts about liver function. So lead honest.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Oh my gosh, I'm with you. I think the liver
is really fascinating. I think one of the most fascinating
facts about the liver is that if part of it
is removed or damaged, it actually grows back to its
original size. Now that's fascinating. But here's the thing that
I didn't know. Lease, it's also constantly renewing itself. So
(04:01):
no matter how old you are, most liver cells are
replaced every three years. It's like getting a new liver
every three years. Now, that's really cool. It's also the
largest solid organ in the body, but it's also considered
a gland because it produces hormones and other chemicals. The
liver is involved in more than five hundred different critical
(04:24):
functions in the body, everything from filtering toxins to regulating
blood sugar levels and a lot more. But when I
think of the liver, as you mentioned in the beginning,
I think of the most important role it plays is
in detoxification because it breaks down and filters out harmful substances.
(04:46):
So the liver is one of the most hardworking organs
in the human body. So I think this is a
fascinating organ. And I'm wondering, least did I miss anything?
And I heard you say hmm about the.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, I didn't know that the liver regenerated itself basically
within every three years. That's very interesting to me, and
I think that that's probably true unless a certain degree
of disease sets in and it gets scarred. Yes, we
call fi boast. But that's so interesting. So yeah, that
was my home. So yes, let's see what else. There's
(05:21):
these cells in the body called macrophasis. They're like the
roving eyes of the immune system, so they're constantly on
the alert for threats and many of them set out
in organs and tissues, and eighty percent of those cells
are in the liver. They're called komphor cells in the liver.
So let the liver really important in our immune functioning,
(05:43):
both in terms of identifying threats. But interestingly, the role
of the immune system in the liver has a lot
to do with controlling an overactive immune response or reducing
sort of an immuno inflammatory response. And you mentioned deliver
is very active metabolically. It has to do with maintaining
our iron levels. It plays a role in vitamin A storage.
(06:07):
It has a very lot to do with blood sugar
regulation and fat distribution and fat metabolism. So it's actually
very integral to kind of energy production and nutrient homeostasis.
So with that all being said, the liver's clearly got
its fingers, so to speak, in a lot of pies.
(06:28):
So where should we go next, Well.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
You know what, I'd like to ask you a few
questions about liver function as it relates specifically to cancer
treatment and recovery. And I'd like to start with treatment.
So why is liver function so important during cancer treatment?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So chemotherapy especially is a toxic usually, you know, it
carries quite a bit of toxicity with it, so it
needs to be detoxified. And the toxicity is something we
rely on. We want it to be toxic to cancer cells,
but of course the toxicity to healthy cells can be problematic,
(07:06):
So the liver is very important to help manage some
of that toxicity, help kind of clean up some of
the inflammatory, residual toxic reaction. It's also true that most
of the chemo therapeutic drugs are what we call lipophilic,
so they're fat soluble, which means they are readily taken
(07:28):
up by the liver. So when people are getting chemotherapy,
the majority of people, like over eighty percent of people
getting during the time of chemotherapy, because all that uptake
in the liver, their liver gets a little bit inflamed,
and it's a condition called steatosis, and this is something
(07:48):
that's reversible. But during the time that the liver is overwhelmed,
let's say, with some of the toxic chemical metabolism and
this fatty deposition that happens in the liver, that can
impede liver function. So then when people are getting chemote therapy,
because their livers under dress basically all the other things
(08:10):
the liver does, maintaining blood sugar, maintaining fatty acid balance,
maintaining iron stores, maintaining immunity, all of that becomes somewhat compromised.
So that's why the liver and liver health and supporting
liver is so critical during chemotherapy. Okay, perfect, And before
we get to those practical strategies, what about after treatment?
(08:32):
How can the function of the liver influence recovery and
healing from cancer? Well, I guess I would say first
of all, that there are some people that are more
susceptible to developing this liver toxicity during chemotherapy. So these
would be people who are older, people who have poor
nutritional status, people who have other underlying diseases. There's certain
(08:57):
genetic predispositions, people who are also taking medications that have
liver toxic effects. So as people are recovering from the
additional liver toxicity from chemo, it's important to look at
those risk factors and to address anyone that we can,
so really look very carefully at nutritional status as a
(09:20):
way to help recover the liver function. Look very carefully
at whether there might be some other drugs or diseases
that could be modified, Look at alcohol use, which is
certainly a co factor in that, and you know, assess
liver function and make It's like, I guess the shortest
answer is to prioritize this. And I say this because surprisingly,
(09:42):
because it's so common, sometimes things that are common get
sort of brushed aside. And there are many people that
I have in my practice who have been through their
oncology treatment whose liver enzymes remain maybe just a little
bit elevated, not alarmingly so. And the response is, don't
worry about it. Your little will recover. But it's that
recovery period of time which is sort of extends this
(10:03):
window of susceptibility to things. And I think there's a
lot we can actually do to get that liver back
on track sooner, faster, and even stronger. Yeah, it's like
you said, it does regenerate, its amazing organ but we
need to support it in order for it to do
its job, because if it is to damage, then it
won't be able to regenerate and won't be able to
(10:23):
get its full function back. So let's talk about some
practical strategies to help support liver function, and I would
like to start with diet. Are there are there things
that we can do from a diet perspective to support
liver health?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So much good?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So I'm going to start with what I would consider
it to be the easier strategies because these are things
to add in to our diet. So there are some
foods that are very good at supporting and helping the
liver to regenerate, to reduce inflammation in the liver, to
support the flow of bile, which is where all that
(11:02):
sort of waste product gets excreted from the liver back
into the intestines for eventual elimination. So we want that
bio flowing really well. So some foods that help all
of that are beats. Beats are top of the list.
Some people don't like beats, but if you don't mind beats,
that's a really good food to eat during the recovery period.
Right up next to beats would be artichokes, and any
(11:26):
kind of artichoke is very very supportive to the liver.
And then dark leafy greens, charred collared kale, along with
some garlic. These are all foods that are very supportive
to liver recovery. So that would be the first sort
of area of intervention. And along with that addition of
(11:47):
those healthy foods, it's important to recognize that during this
acute phase or this you know, sort of more intensive
phase of liver recovery, is really helpful to reduce carbohydrate intake,
specifically simple or refined carbohydrates. So this would be a
good time. You know a lot of people when they're
getting chemo, they just have terrible appetite. It's hard to eat,
(12:08):
so they just go to comfort foods or often pastas
and breads and things. You know, I get it. But
after chemo, when appetite starts to return, it's really important
to sort of let those foods go to give the
liver a better chance at regenerating itself and balancing its
blood sugar balancing actions, and that in turn could contribute
(12:29):
to some weight reduction if there's been some excessive weight gain,
which also helps the liver quite a bit. And then
the final thing I'll say in terms of diet is
it's very important to have a healthy microbiome to help
support liver function. And so from a diet perspective, eating
fiber from great whole grains, fruits, vegetables, as many different
(12:50):
kinds of fruits and vegetables as possible to maintain that
microbiome diversity, and then also incorporating some probiotic or fermented
foods like backchroy and sour krowd and culture yogurt. These
are all things which help to build a health microbiome,
which in turn supports liver health.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. What about our lifestyle.
Are there things that we can do from a lifestyle
perspective to impact the liver.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, so the first one is one of your favorite topics,
so you might want to speak a little bit more
to this, but some strategies. But is the importance of sleep.
Most of the liver activity happens actually during sleep, so
making sure we get enough time asleep is really important
and then during the day, like everything, exercise is very
(13:38):
important to maintaining or encouraging good blood flow, good metabolism
of sugars and fatty acids. So those would be the
two kind of key lifestyle things. But I don't know
if you want to talk a little bit about sleep.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, because it makes a lot of sense to me
because we know that lack of sleep will negatively impact
bloodh levels, It will make us inflamed, we will gain weight,
our immune system will not function properly. So it makes
a lot of sense that sleep would in fact impact
(14:13):
liver health. So that's a good one, yes, And actually
I should mention one other thing, which is the ubiquitous
unraveler of health, and that's stress. There's actually been some
research that links high levels of stress and the hormonal
disruptions that occur under chronic stress with impaired liver function.
(14:35):
And so like every organ, when we're under chronic stress,
our body just doesn't function optimally, and so it's very
important to also engage in regular stress management. I mean,
these are all common sense things, but you know, looking
at it through the lens of preserving the liver health might.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Add just you know, one little extra piece of motivation
to get people engaging in these habits more regularly.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, speaking of habits, we like to talk a lot
about movement. Is there any direct connection between exercise and
physical activity and liver function.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yes, So I mentioned steatosis, which essentially is this the liver.
The ability of the liver to handle the flux of
fatty acid sort of storage and then breaking apart into
energy gets disrupted when it's under toxic assault, and with
that you get this fat accumulation in the liver. That's
(15:33):
the steatosis that happens when in the majority of people
getting chemotherapy hopefully temporary, right, But one of the things
that is most impactful in reducing fat accumulation in liver
is in fact exercise, and this has been probably best
studied in a different circumstance, But there are like in
(15:53):
a young person, a child who has excess weight, they
often will have fatty livers, which seens them up actually
in some ways for a lifetime of chronic disease because
of all the ways in which the livers involved in metabolism,
lu sureger regulation, inflammation, immunity, etc. So one of the
really important things to do for kids that have access weight,
(16:16):
even if they're still working on the weight loss. Is
to get them active so that they can start basically
metabolizing their fatty acids more effectively and start relieving some
of that fat storage in the liver.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Right, And we all know that movement, physical activity, being
out in nature, all those things are great stress relievers.
And you mentioned stress. When you're talking to your patients,
do you like to provide them with some options for
stress management or do you kind of let them figure
out what resonates most with them.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I mean it's a good question. I think it
depends on the person's own experience. Many people have a
history of successful stress manage. Perhaps they've just fallen off
that habit, so it's really just reacquainting them with their
own discoveries in the past. Some people really have never
prioritized it. They've tried one form of meditation, they come
(17:12):
away thinking they can't meditate, So it's about introducing them
to other ways to be mindful. Some people are most
mindful when they're moving, so it's really about introducing them
to mindful activities or as you said, being out in nature.
So I think mostly it's when people are stuck about
finding a strategy that they can stick with and that
(17:33):
makes a difference for them that I would give them suggestions.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
That makes a lot of sense. All right, I'd like
to move on to herbs and nutrients, But I have
a question for you. Do you have like an overarching
philosophy when it comes to utilizing herbs and nutrients for
liver health? Are just are there some general rules that
you follow or just some philosophies that you have regarding
(18:01):
using supplements.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yes. So, first of all, as much as I would
like to say that the lifestyle strategies that we've talked
about are sufficient, I think because of the especially for
people who have been through chemotherapy, the degree of toxicity
of that therapy, combined with the increasingly toxic world within
which we live, makes it really difficult to rely on
(18:26):
these kind of core lifestyle strategies. So, as much as
I would love for that to happen, I think in
many cases it is important, at least for a period
of time to give extra support that's more targeted to
kind of get the liver back online. So, first of all,
would say, as a general rule, I believe in the
value of supplementation in this situation, Secondly, because we're dealing
(18:50):
with toxicity, it's very important that people obtain high quality supplements.
The last thing we want to do is have somebody
take a supplement that is going to be poorly made
and maybe contaminated itself. So this is where, you know,
generally you would want to utilize the experience of a
qualified healthcare practitioner, a natropathic doctor, an integrative medicine provider
(19:14):
with training, you know, somebody that can guide you to
good brands. Short of that, there are some distributors that
carry good quality brands for the public. And in general
this is a big generalization, but in general, a dietary
supplement company that's been focused on producing dietary supplements for
decades is generally going to be pretty good quality because
(19:36):
that's their livelihood. So better to go with a solid,
you know, three four decade long company than a fresh
company that maybe has good advertisement, but it's only been
around for a little while. They might be great, but
just if you don't know, harder to guess.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So, yeah, those are such great points. So let's dig
into herbs and nutrients. Are there you know, specific go
to herbs and nutrients that can help support liver function,
and maybe you can also talk about cautions associated with
each specific herber nutrient that you bring up.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, well there are quite a few, so I'm just
gonna start with some heavy hitters. So one of the
actually the ingredients that has long sponsored our podcast is
Cetria and they make a product called Cetria glutathion. Glutathion
is the body's major antioxidant, and glutathion is particularly important
(20:33):
in the liver. It's one of the most important compounds
that the liver uses to detoxify and to rebuild to
do that regeneration that you talked about, So glutathion is
very important. Now as a caution, there are some chemotherapeutics
and even some types of radiation that would make gludithion
(20:55):
contraindicated because it is an antioxidant and some of those
therapies are oxidative in nature, so we don't want to
use necessary glutathon during treatment. But once treatment is over,
glutathone is invariably depleted in people and certainly in their livers,
So that would be one of the first things I
would consider is to use a good of thione supplement,
(21:19):
and you can use you can get goodethon in your
diet if you eat fresh foods, fresh fruits, fresh vegetables,
those all have glutathone in them, so that's great to do.
But again after chemo, this is a time when the
depletion is so significant, I would in fact recommend supplementation.
So that's my first one.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, and I like that one. And I always when
I'm talking about glutathione, I think it's always important to
bring up the fact that Cetria in particular has is
the brand that we're in the studies. So this is
another one of those cases where you want to actually
get the branded ingredient because it's the one that was
(21:58):
actually used in the studies. So when you're talking from
a quality standpoint and a research standpoint, such a glutathion
is the way to go.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yes. So then next I'm going to move I'll kind
of switch around a little bit here and there, but
I want to talk about a botanical or an herb
that's very, very important. Every integrated practitioner in nah pathic,
doctor Erbilis knows about this herb and thinks of it
first and foremost for liver health. And that's called milk
thistle or it's also called Saint Mary's thistle blessed thistle.
(22:30):
The botanical name is Sileibum marianum. This is a plant
that it's in the thistle family obviously, and we use
the seed extract from the seeds medicinally, and this is
basically a nature's nature's engineered solution to liver poor liver health.
So milk thistle is very good at restoring liver health.
(22:53):
It actually works in conjunction with glutathia on the compounds
in milk thistle, which is called sill maarn for those
about Chemistima on the podcast. But silamarin flabinoid complex works
in conjunction with gudathond to deal with oxative stress. At
the same time, there are these compounds and milk fissiles
(23:14):
stimulate the cells and the liver that are responsible for
regenerating the liver and also help to through other mechanisms,
repair damage that has occurred to liver cells. So it
kind of addresses the toxicity on every front. Now, because
it's so active in the liver, some people get concerned
that it might interfere with medications, for example, but it's
(23:37):
actually been studied in human what we call pharmokinetic studies.
These are studies in human volunteers where they give the
human volunteer a drug which they know, which the researchers
know is metabolize through the liver, and that things that
might interfere with its metabolism would therefore affect the marker
(23:58):
of these drugs and metabolis of these drugs. And in
those studies, milk thistle does not interfere with those drugs,
so it's considered to not have clinically relevant drug herb interactions,
even though in the pre clinical the studies in the
Petrie dishes you see those interactions. So it gets confusing.
Patients are given confusing messages about this. But I want
(24:19):
to be very clear that what's studied in the petrie
dish is not what the liver seeds because like every botanical,
you ingest a botanical, then your microbiome lunch is on it,
and then you kind of absorb components of it, which
is different than what's studied in the petri dish, and
once it gets into that form, plus the amount that
you're taking, it just doesn't produce interference. So that's kind
(24:41):
of one myth I'd like to clear up. Because it's
such an important herb for restoring liver health.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, and the research is just phenomenal with milk thistle.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yes, let's see what else. Well, there's so many other things,
but let me just say that one of the things
that people may not realize is that, so this is
a little bit of a little bit of a rabbit hole.
But bear with me just for a moment. So one
of the other functions of the liver that's really actually
(25:15):
critical to its detoxification properties, its metabolic properties is a
process called methylation. And methylation happens in every cell inar bodies,
but it's particularly important in the liver, and so methylation.
When people don't have effective methylation, that all those functions suffer.
And of course, if somebody has this chemotherapy induced liver toxicity,
(25:38):
they're going to have some methylation defects temporary. But we
can kind of get methylation back online by making sure
that the nutrients that that process requires are in supply.
So one of the other strategies to help regenerate liver
function is to provide these methylation codevectors, which include B vitamins.
(26:00):
There's an amino acid called or what we call the
methyl donors, but choline and methyanine. These are all things
that can be very helpful for a period of time
after chemotherapy to help the liver recover its methylation properties. Yeah,
so would that be when we're talking about an ingredient,
(26:23):
would it be samy? So samy is another methylation co
factor or provides a methylation co factor. So yes, samy.
And you'll see that a lot in liver support formulas
and used for liver support for this reason. So yep,
that's a that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Okay, cool, Okay, what else do you have? I think
we have time for, like maybe one one more?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
One more? Oh I got more than that? Okay, Well
I think I'm going to go with carnatine. So carnatine
is something that is involved in fatty acid oxidation. So
remember that what's happening in part in the liver that
you have this excessive triglycerides that these are, that's the
storage form of fat that's in the liver. So the
(27:07):
liver has to break that apart, and that process is
called beta oxidation. They have to free up those stored
fatty acids into three fatty acids that can be used
to make energy, and part of that process involves carnatine.
So carnatine is necessary to take those fatty acids and
put them into the mitochondria where they're made into energy.
(27:28):
So carnatine is very helpful and improving the beta oxidation
of fatty acids in the liver, which means that it's
going to help to help the liver get rid of
this excessive fat which is what's compromising the function in
the first place. So carnatine is quite important as well.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Okay, so we have one minute, and so I'm going
to let you I'm going to let you list a
couple like one or two more, but don't explain why
that's all you do.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, I'm going to break your roule, just the tiny bed.
I'll do a short explanations. Tumoric route just like milk
thistle is a very good liver antioxi and it will
just peg it that way. So I'll put that in there.
And then my last one, I'm going to give another
shout out. Actually do one of our sponsors, and that's
doctor or here is probiotic, which is kind of a
pre and a probiotic combined together. Because of their fermentation process.
(28:19):
And again I want to stress the importance of a
healthy microbiome in helping the liver regenerate its functionality and
not imposing more inflammatory insult on the liver. So a
probiotic probiotic mix like that would be helpful as well.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah. Great, those were great ones to end on. Well,
thank you Lise, this has been a great show. I
really appreciate you giving us this information.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, thank you Carolyn, and I thank you for your
questions as always, and I'd also like to thank our
sponsors pro Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Formula, Immuse post biotic to
give your immune system that extra boost, cognizance and Coline
to help in hans memory, focus and attention. And doctor
here is award winning shelf stable chromiotic and of course
(29:05):
Cetria glutathion for your liver anti accident and may you
experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone,
have a great night, have a great
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello, this is Five to Thrive Live on doctor Lisa
Schuller and I'm joined by my awesome co host, Carolyn Gazilla. Carolyn,
how are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I am doing great, Lease, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
A little bits? To be honest, I've been on time
all day, which is a little unusual for me, as
you may or may not know, and then write until
now that I was a little bit late, and so
you know, I could not have a perfect track record today.
It just didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, that's okay. Well, you know after the holiday and
you're easing back in and I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I totally get it. Well, I appreciate your grace, Thank
you your bet.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Okay, So what is our topic today, Lise?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You know we are going to talk about the liver
and I love this topic. I have to a little
confession to make, which is that if I had chosen
not to become a nature pathic physician, and if I
had further chosen not to specialize in nature pathic oncology,
I think I might have specialized in hepatology, which is
the study of liver disease, only because the liver is
(01:49):
so fascinating and so integral to our health and well being.
And I think that, particularly in the world in which
we live, where there's so many toxic insults, the liver
has become even more and more important. So we're going
to dive in and talk about the liver.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
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Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yes, indeed, we love our sponsors. And Carolyn, you know
what I'm going to have you start us off because
I bet, in preparation for our show tonight, that you've
stored up some fun facts about liver function. So lead honest.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Oh my gosh, I'm with you. I think the liver
is really fascinating. I think one of the most fascinating
facts about the liver is that if part of it
is removed or damaged, it actually grows back to its
original size. Now that's fascinating. But here's the thing that
I didn't know. Lease, it's also constantly renewing itself. So
(04:01):
no matter how old you are, most liver cells are
replaced every three years. It's like getting a new liver
every three years. Now, that's really cool. It's also the
largest solid organ in the body, but it's also considered
a gland because it produces hormones and other chemicals. The
liver is involved in more than five hundred different critical
(04:24):
functions in the body, everything from filtering toxins to regulating
blood sugar levels and a lot more. But when I
think of the liver, as you mentioned in the beginning,
I think of the most important role it plays is
in detoxification because it breaks down and filters out harmful substances.
(04:46):
So the liver is one of the most hardworking organs
in the human body. So I think this is a
fascinating organ. And I'm wondering, least did I miss anything?
And I heard you say hmm about the.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, I didn't know that the liver regenerated itself basically
within every three years. That's very interesting to me, and
I think that that's probably true unless a certain degree
of disease sets in and it gets scarred. Yes, we
call fi boast. But that's so interesting. So yeah, that
was my home. So yes, let's see what else. There's
(05:21):
these cells in the body called macrophasis. They're like the
roving eyes of the immune system, so they're constantly on
the alert for threats and many of them set out
in organs and tissues, and eighty percent of those cells
are in the liver. They're called komphor cells in the liver.
So let the liver really important in our immune functioning,
(05:43):
both in terms of identifying threats. But interestingly, the role
of the immune system in the liver has a lot
to do with controlling an overactive immune response or reducing
sort of an immuno inflammatory response. And you mentioned deliver
is very active metabolically. It has to do with maintaining
our iron levels. It plays a role in vitamin A storage.
(06:07):
It has a very lot to do with blood sugar
regulation and fat distribution and fat metabolism. So it's actually
very integral to kind of energy production and nutrient homeostasis.
So with that all being said, the liver's clearly got
its fingers, so to speak, in a lot of pies.
(06:28):
So where should we go next, Well.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
You know what, I'd like to ask you a few
questions about liver function as it relates specifically to cancer
treatment and recovery. And I'd like to start with treatment.
So why is liver function so important during cancer treatment?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So chemotherapy especially is a toxic usually, you know, it
carries quite a bit of toxicity with it, so it
needs to be detoxified. And the toxicity is something we
rely on. We want it to be toxic to cancer cells,
but of course the toxicity to healthy cells can be problematic,
(07:06):
So the liver is very important to help manage some
of that toxicity, help kind of clean up some of
the inflammatory, residual toxic reaction. It's also true that most
of the chemo therapeutic drugs are what we call lipophilic,
so they're fat soluble, which means they are readily taken
(07:28):
up by the liver. So when people are getting chemotherapy,
the majority of people, like over eighty percent of people
getting during the time of chemotherapy, because all that uptake
in the liver, their liver gets a little bit inflamed,
and it's a condition called steatosis, and this is something
(07:48):
that's reversible. But during the time that the liver is overwhelmed,
let's say, with some of the toxic chemical metabolism and
this fatty deposition that happens in the liver, that can
impede liver function. So then when people are getting chemote therapy,
because their livers under dress basically all the other things
(08:10):
the liver does, maintaining blood sugar, maintaining fatty acid balance,
maintaining iron stores, maintaining immunity, all of that becomes somewhat compromised.
So that's why the liver and liver health and supporting
liver is so critical during chemotherapy. Okay, perfect, And before
we get to those practical strategies, what about after treatment?
(08:32):
How can the function of the liver influence recovery and
healing from cancer? Well, I guess I would say first
of all, that there are some people that are more
susceptible to developing this liver toxicity during chemotherapy. So these
would be people who are older, people who have poor
nutritional status, people who have other underlying diseases. There's certain
(08:57):
genetic predispositions, people who are also taking medications that have
liver toxic effects. So as people are recovering from the
additional liver toxicity from chemo, it's important to look at
those risk factors and to address anyone that we can,
so really look very carefully at nutritional status as a
(09:20):
way to help recover the liver function. Look very carefully
at whether there might be some other drugs or diseases
that could be modified, Look at alcohol use, which is
certainly a co factor in that, and you know, assess
liver function and make It's like, I guess the shortest
answer is to prioritize this. And I say this because surprisingly,
(09:42):
because it's so common, sometimes things that are common get
sort of brushed aside. And there are many people that
I have in my practice who have been through their
oncology treatment whose liver enzymes remain maybe just a little
bit elevated, not alarmingly so. And the response is, don't
worry about it. Your little will recover. But it's that
recovery period of time which is sort of extends this
(10:03):
window of susceptibility to things. And I think there's a
lot we can actually do to get that liver back
on track sooner, faster, and even stronger. Yeah, it's like
you said, it does regenerate, its amazing organ but we
need to support it in order for it to do
its job, because if it is to damage, then it
won't be able to regenerate and won't be able to
(10:23):
get its full function back. So let's talk about some
practical strategies to help support liver function, and I would
like to start with diet. Are there are there things
that we can do from a diet perspective to support
liver health?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So much good?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So I'm going to start with what I would consider
it to be the easier strategies because these are things
to add in to our diet. So there are some
foods that are very good at supporting and helping the
liver to regenerate, to reduce inflammation in the liver, to
support the flow of bile, which is where all that
(11:02):
sort of waste product gets excreted from the liver back
into the intestines for eventual elimination. So we want that
bio flowing really well. So some foods that help all
of that are beats. Beats are top of the list.
Some people don't like beats, but if you don't mind beats,
that's a really good food to eat during the recovery period.
Right up next to beats would be artichokes, and any
(11:26):
kind of artichoke is very very supportive to the liver.
And then dark leafy greens, charred collared kale, along with
some garlic. These are all foods that are very supportive
to liver recovery. So that would be the first sort
of area of intervention. And along with that addition of
(11:47):
those healthy foods, it's important to recognize that during this
acute phase or this you know, sort of more intensive
phase of liver recovery, is really helpful to reduce carbohydrate intake,
specifically simple or refined carbohydrates. So this would be a
good time. You know a lot of people when they're
getting chemo, they just have terrible appetite. It's hard to eat,
(12:08):
so they just go to comfort foods or often pastas
and breads and things. You know, I get it. But
after chemo, when appetite starts to return, it's really important
to sort of let those foods go to give the
liver a better chance at regenerating itself and balancing its
blood sugar balancing actions, and that in turn could contribute
(12:29):
to some weight reduction if there's been some excessive weight gain,
which also helps the liver quite a bit. And then
the final thing I'll say in terms of diet is
it's very important to have a healthy microbiome to help
support liver function. And so from a diet perspective, eating
fiber from great whole grains, fruits, vegetables, as many different
(12:50):
kinds of fruits and vegetables as possible to maintain that
microbiome diversity, and then also incorporating some probiotic or fermented
foods like backchroy and sour krowd and culture yogurt. These
are all things which help to build a health microbiome,
which in turn supports liver health.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. What about our lifestyle.
Are there things that we can do from a lifestyle
perspective to impact the liver.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, so the first one is one of your favorite topics,
so you might want to speak a little bit more
to this, but some strategies. But is the importance of sleep.
Most of the liver activity happens actually during sleep, so
making sure we get enough time asleep is really important
and then during the day, like everything, exercise is very
(13:38):
important to maintaining or encouraging good blood flow, good metabolism
of sugars and fatty acids. So those would be the
two kind of key lifestyle things. But I don't know
if you want to talk a little bit about sleep.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, because it makes a lot of sense to me
because we know that lack of sleep will negatively impact
bloodh levels, It will make us inflamed, we will gain weight,
our immune system will not function properly. So it makes
a lot of sense that sleep would in fact impact
(14:13):
liver health. So that's a good one, yes, And actually
I should mention one other thing, which is the ubiquitous
unraveler of health, and that's stress. There's actually been some
research that links high levels of stress and the hormonal
disruptions that occur under chronic stress with impaired liver function.
(14:35):
And so like every organ, when we're under chronic stress,
our body just doesn't function optimally, and so it's very
important to also engage in regular stress management. I mean,
these are all common sense things, but you know, looking
at it through the lens of preserving the liver health might.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Add just you know, one little extra piece of motivation
to get people engaging in these habits more regularly.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, speaking of habits, we like to talk a lot
about movement. Is there any direct connection between exercise and
physical activity and liver function.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yes, So I mentioned steatosis, which essentially is this the liver.
The ability of the liver to handle the flux of
fatty acid sort of storage and then breaking apart into
energy gets disrupted when it's under toxic assault, and with
that you get this fat accumulation in the liver. That's
(15:33):
the steatosis that happens when in the majority of people
getting chemotherapy hopefully temporary, right, But one of the things
that is most impactful in reducing fat accumulation in liver
is in fact exercise, and this has been probably best
studied in a different circumstance, But there are like in
(15:53):
a young person, a child who has excess weight, they
often will have fatty livers, which seens them up actually
in some ways for a lifetime of chronic disease because
of all the ways in which the livers involved in metabolism,
lu sureger regulation, inflammation, immunity, etc. So one of the
really important things to do for kids that have access weight,
(16:16):
even if they're still working on the weight loss. Is
to get them active so that they can start basically
metabolizing their fatty acids more effectively and start relieving some
of that fat storage in the liver.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Right, And we all know that movement, physical activity, being
out in nature, all those things are great stress relievers.
And you mentioned stress. When you're talking to your patients,
do you like to provide them with some options for
stress management or do you kind of let them figure
out what resonates most with them.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I mean it's a good question. I think it
depends on the person's own experience. Many people have a
history of successful stress manage. Perhaps they've just fallen off
that habit, so it's really just reacquainting them with their
own discoveries in the past. Some people really have never
prioritized it. They've tried one form of meditation, they come
(17:12):
away thinking they can't meditate, So it's about introducing them
to other ways to be mindful. Some people are most
mindful when they're moving, so it's really about introducing them
to mindful activities or as you said, being out in nature.
So I think mostly it's when people are stuck about
finding a strategy that they can stick with and that
(17:33):
makes a difference for them that I would give them suggestions.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
That makes a lot of sense. All right, I'd like
to move on to herbs and nutrients, But I have
a question for you. Do you have like an overarching
philosophy when it comes to utilizing herbs and nutrients for
liver health? Are just are there some general rules that
you follow or just some philosophies that you have regarding
(18:01):
using supplements.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yes. So, first of all, as much as I would
like to say that the lifestyle strategies that we've talked
about are sufficient, I think because of the especially for
people who have been through chemotherapy, the degree of toxicity
of that therapy, combined with the increasingly toxic world within
which we live, makes it really difficult to rely on
(18:26):
these kind of core lifestyle strategies. So, as much as
I would love for that to happen, I think in
many cases it is important, at least for a period
of time to give extra support that's more targeted to
kind of get the liver back online. So, first of all,
would say, as a general rule, I believe in the
value of supplementation in this situation, Secondly, because we're dealing
(18:50):
with toxicity, it's very important that people obtain high quality supplements.
The last thing we want to do is have somebody
take a supplement that is going to be poorly made
and maybe contaminated itself. So this is where, you know,
generally you would want to utilize the experience of a
qualified healthcare practitioner, a natropathic doctor, an integrative medicine provider
(19:14):
with training, you know, somebody that can guide you to
good brands. Short of that, there are some distributors that
carry good quality brands for the public. And in general
this is a big generalization, but in general, a dietary
supplement company that's been focused on producing dietary supplements for
decades is generally going to be pretty good quality because
(19:36):
that's their livelihood. So better to go with a solid,
you know, three four decade long company than a fresh
company that maybe has good advertisement, but it's only been
around for a little while. They might be great, but
just if you don't know, harder to guess.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So, yeah, those are such great points. So let's dig
into herbs and nutrients. Are there you know, specific go
to herbs and nutrients that can help support liver function,
and maybe you can also talk about cautions associated with
each specific herber nutrient that you bring up.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, well there are quite a few, so I'm just
gonna start with some heavy hitters. So one of the
actually the ingredients that has long sponsored our podcast is
Cetria and they make a product called Cetria glutathion. Glutathion
is the body's major antioxidant, and glutathion is particularly important
(20:33):
in the liver. It's one of the most important compounds
that the liver uses to detoxify and to rebuild to
do that regeneration that you talked about, So glutathion is
very important. Now as a caution, there are some chemotherapeutics
and even some types of radiation that would make gludithion
(20:55):
contraindicated because it is an antioxidant and some of those
therapies are oxidative in nature, so we don't want to
use necessary glutathon during treatment. But once treatment is over,
glutathone is invariably depleted in people and certainly in their livers,
So that would be one of the first things I
would consider is to use a good of thione supplement,
(21:19):
and you can use you can get goodethon in your
diet if you eat fresh foods, fresh fruits, fresh vegetables,
those all have glutathone in them, so that's great to do.
But again after chemo, this is a time when the
depletion is so significant, I would in fact recommend supplementation.
So that's my first one.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, and I like that one. And I always when
I'm talking about glutathione, I think it's always important to
bring up the fact that Cetria in particular has is
the brand that we're in the studies. So this is
another one of those cases where you want to actually
get the branded ingredient because it's the one that was
(21:58):
actually used in the studies. So when you're talking from
a quality standpoint and a research standpoint, such a glutathion
is the way to go.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yes. So then next I'm going to move I'll kind
of switch around a little bit here and there, but
I want to talk about a botanical or an herb
that's very, very important. Every integrated practitioner in nah pathic,
doctor Erbilis knows about this herb and thinks of it
first and foremost for liver health. And that's called milk
thistle or it's also called Saint Mary's thistle blessed thistle.
(22:30):
The botanical name is Sileibum marianum. This is a plant
that it's in the thistle family obviously, and we use
the seed extract from the seeds medicinally, and this is
basically a nature's nature's engineered solution to liver poor liver health.
So milk thistle is very good at restoring liver health.
(22:53):
It actually works in conjunction with glutathia on the compounds
in milk thistle, which is called sill maarn for those
about Chemistima on the podcast. But silamarin flabinoid complex works
in conjunction with gudathond to deal with oxative stress. At
the same time, there are these compounds and milk fissiles
(23:14):
stimulate the cells and the liver that are responsible for
regenerating the liver and also help to through other mechanisms,
repair damage that has occurred to liver cells. So it
kind of addresses the toxicity on every front. Now, because
it's so active in the liver, some people get concerned
that it might interfere with medications, for example, but it's
(23:37):
actually been studied in human what we call pharmokinetic studies.
These are studies in human volunteers where they give the
human volunteer a drug which they know, which the researchers
know is metabolize through the liver, and that things that
might interfere with its metabolism would therefore affect the marker
(23:58):
of these drugs and metabolis of these drugs. And in
those studies, milk thistle does not interfere with those drugs,
so it's considered to not have clinically relevant drug herb interactions,
even though in the pre clinical the studies in the
Petrie dishes you see those interactions. So it gets confusing.
Patients are given confusing messages about this. But I want
(24:19):
to be very clear that what's studied in the petrie
dish is not what the liver seeds because like every botanical,
you ingest a botanical, then your microbiome lunch is on it,
and then you kind of absorb components of it, which
is different than what's studied in the petri dish, and
once it gets into that form, plus the amount that
you're taking, it just doesn't produce interference. So that's kind
(24:41):
of one myth I'd like to clear up. Because it's
such an important herb for restoring liver health.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, and the research is just phenomenal with milk thistle.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yes, let's see what else. Well, there's so many other things,
but let me just say that one of the things
that people may not realize is that, so this is
a little bit of a little bit of a rabbit hole.
But bear with me just for a moment. So one
of the other functions of the liver that's really actually
(25:15):
critical to its detoxification properties, its metabolic properties is a
process called methylation. And methylation happens in every cell inar bodies,
but it's particularly important in the liver, and so methylation.
When people don't have effective methylation, that all those functions suffer.
And of course, if somebody has this chemotherapy induced liver toxicity,
(25:38):
they're going to have some methylation defects temporary. But we
can kind of get methylation back online by making sure
that the nutrients that that process requires are in supply.
So one of the other strategies to help regenerate liver
function is to provide these methylation codevectors, which include B vitamins.
(26:00):
There's an amino acid called or what we call the
methyl donors, but choline and methyanine. These are all things
that can be very helpful for a period of time
after chemotherapy to help the liver recover its methylation properties. Yeah,
so would that be when we're talking about an ingredient,
(26:23):
would it be samy? So samy is another methylation co
factor or provides a methylation co factor. So yes, samy.
And you'll see that a lot in liver support formulas
and used for liver support for this reason. So yep,
that's a that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Okay, cool, Okay, what else do you have? I think
we have time for, like maybe one one more?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
One more? Oh I got more than that? Okay, Well
I think I'm going to go with carnatine. So carnatine
is something that is involved in fatty acid oxidation. So
remember that what's happening in part in the liver that
you have this excessive triglycerides that these are, that's the
storage form of fat that's in the liver. So the
(27:07):
liver has to break that apart, and that process is
called beta oxidation. They have to free up those stored
fatty acids into three fatty acids that can be used
to make energy, and part of that process involves carnatine.
So carnatine is necessary to take those fatty acids and
put them into the mitochondria where they're made into energy.
(27:28):
So carnatine is very helpful and improving the beta oxidation
of fatty acids in the liver, which means that it's
going to help to help the liver get rid of
this excessive fat which is what's compromising the function in
the first place. So carnatine is quite important as well.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Okay, so we have one minute, and so I'm going
to let you I'm going to let you list a
couple like one or two more, but don't explain why
that's all you do.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, I'm going to break your roule, just the tiny bed.
I'll do a short explanations. Tumoric route just like milk
thistle is a very good liver antioxi and it will
just peg it that way. So I'll put that in there.
And then my last one, I'm going to give another
shout out. Actually do one of our sponsors, and that's
doctor or here is probiotic, which is kind of a
pre and a probiotic combined together. Because of their fermentation process.
(28:19):
And again I want to stress the importance of a
healthy microbiome in helping the liver regenerate its functionality and
not imposing more inflammatory insult on the liver. So a
probiotic probiotic mix like that would be helpful as well.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah. Great, those were great ones to end on. Well,
thank you Lise, this has been a great show. I
really appreciate you giving us this information.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, thank you Carolyn, and I thank you for your
questions as always, and I'd also like to thank our
sponsors pro Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Formula, Immuse post biotic to
give your immune system that extra boost, cognizance and Coline
to help in hans memory, focus and attention. And doctor
here is award winning shelf stable chromiotic and of course
(29:05):
Cetria glutathion for your liver anti accident and may you
experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone,
have a great night, have a great
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