April 29, 2025 • 29 mins
There are many ways to achieve optimal wellness but one way that you may not have considered is congruence. What does it mean to be congruent and how can authenticity contribute to overall wellness? Karolyn and Lise not only talk about the science of authenticity, but they will also provide some practical strategies to enhance congruence. If you are looking for a unique and creative way to enhance your health, you won't want to miss this show!
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazella and I'm joined by my awesome co host
and good friend, doctor Lese Alschuler. Hello, Lise, how are
you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm doing pretty well. It's been one of those days,
to be honest, you know, like every thing I do,
I have had trouble. Like I went to do the
laundry and the little label of my vinegar slipped off
the bottle and then the vinegar and all the glass
went crashing down to the floor. Oh no, no, I
(01:14):
was trying to get on the show. I was having
tech tech issues. So one of those days to be honest. Okay, well,
you know what, it's all going to change right now
it is.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How are you there? They good? Yeah? I actually went golfing,
so they're doing great. Well, what are we going to
talk about today? You know what, least this is an
interesting one and it's maybe something that a lot of
people haven't even given a lot of thought too. So
we're going to be talking about how being congruent, authentic,
(01:49):
and genuine can benefit not only our mental, emotional, and
spiritual health, but also our physical health. And like I said,
this might not be a health stres strategy that people
have thought of, but I feel it's super powerful and
I can't wait to dig in. But first, Lise, why
don't you go ahead and think our wonderful sponsors.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We'll be happy to do that. So first, we have iMUSE,
which is a unique, patented post biotic that gives your
immune system a key advantage. Muse is found in many
immune supporting dietary supplements, so look forward on the label
or go to immusehealth dot com for more information. We
also thank Cognizance citicoline to keep your brain firing on
(02:32):
all cylinders to enhance your memory, focus, and attention, So
look for Cognizant on the label of a dietary supplement
for brain health or go to Cognizant dot com for
more information. We also thank Prothrivers Wellness Brain and pro
Thrivers Wellness supplements in general. Pro Thrivers Wellness Brain contains
(02:53):
cognizant and some other brain supporting nutrients, and you can
find pro Thriver's Wellness Brain at Pure Formulas dot com.
And you'll also find pro Thriver's Wellness Sleep which combines
higher dose melatonin and some other sleep supporting natural ingredients.
And finally, doctor or Heroes Probiotics a best selling probiotic
(03:14):
for more than three decades which contains twelve probiotic strains
that are shelf stable so no refrigeration is required due
to their unique three year fermentation process, and it is
a very effective probiotic and you can learn more at
doctor Orhireprobiotics dot com. Okay, Carolyn, where would you like
(03:34):
to begin when it comes to talking about congruence? O,
you know what, Let's begin by describing it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So when you look up the word congruent, you'll find
descriptors like harmony, agreement, consistency, things that fit together. But
more specifically, it's when our actions match our words and
are consistent with our values, beliefs, and personality. So when
we are congruent, we are authentic and genuine. So least,
(04:05):
when I'm evaluating and looking at my own congruence and authenticity,
I ask myself. Am I being transparent? Am I being
true to myself? Am I being consistent? Am I making
deliberate choices? And am I taking responsibility for those choices
and actions. So that's what congruence is to me, and
(04:27):
that's what we're going to be talking about. We're going
to be talking about how that impacts our health, but
least before we dig into the science, which you and
I love to do. Do you have anything else to
add to the description of today's show, Well, you know,
for me, in addition to what you said congruence, I
(04:48):
often talk about being in the right life. So that
might mean aligning ourselves with the right job, the right relationship,
the right location where we live, you know, all that
kind of stuff. And I think that kind of aligns
our inner drive with our outer expression.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
But in order to do that, we have to be
self aware. So we have to be have some degree
of self reflection and the ability to look within enough
to understand where the incongruence may lie. And you know,
we can maybe come back to this, but being in
congruence is not necessarily easier straightforward, I guess, is the
(05:29):
thing I would like to add. Yeah, it's very true
and I also would like to say that you know
that there are, of course, as you mentioned, there's research
associated with the benefits of being congruent and kind of
(05:50):
having this sense of transparency and being true to oneself.
So I'm wondering, Karen, if you have an example of
a paper that you've found that is a interest to
you one.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Are you kidding me? Actually was? I was surprised at
what I found. I mean, this is a somewhat vague
concept and it is isn't easy to grasp, but I
found a lot. So I'm going to focus on authenticity.
So in one study, and this was from twenty nineteen,
(06:22):
they looked at five dimensions of authenticity, you know, authenticity
and a relationship, you know, resisting external pressures, expressing your
true self, contentment, and owning your actions. And then they
also contrasted that to four dimensions of being inauthentic, and
(06:43):
that is phoniness, suppressing your feelings and emotions, self denigration.
I thought that was an interesting dimension of inauthenticity and conformity.
So what they've found is that the people who were
most authentic and the least inauthentic had higher levels of
(07:03):
self esteem, higher levels of psychological well being, more positive
affect and much higher levels of relationship quality. So I
think that that's an indication of the psychological benefits. But
another study that I thought was really interesting looked at
(07:24):
authenticity and healthcare, and this is where I think that
we really get to potential physical outcomes. So what the
study looked at is what impact did being authentic have
on patients? And they took it one step further, what
impact did it have on the health of the worker
(07:46):
the health of the healthcare worker. What they found is
that when the workers were the most authentic, patient outcomes
were improved dramatically, and they also found that staff well
being in the healthcare setting was improved dramatically when the
(08:08):
workers were more authentic as well. And I found this
interesting because the researcher concluded that one of the benefits,
the reason it was so beneficial to the staff, is
that authentic relationships are powerful drivers of trust. Yes, so
when we are authentic, we are trustworthy and that makes
(08:31):
a difference in not only our co workers, but also
in the patients that were helping. So I thought that
was a very fascinating study. And I just have one
more for you. This one was a little bit over
my head, but I want to bring it up anyway.
So in twenty twenty three, these researchers looked at how
authenticity impacted the physical functioning of the brain, and what
(08:57):
they found was that there's a region, there are regions
in the brain that support self awareness. Authenticity influences these regions,
which is related to what they're calling self alienation and
(09:17):
self reported anxiety. They describe self alienation as being aware
of physicological states, emotions, and just cognition in general. So
what they've found is that when you're authentic, these regions
in the brain are supported, and they have a lot
less self reported anxiety and much lower self alienation, so
(09:40):
they kind of go hand in hand. When you're more authentic,
you're actually physically enhancing brain function. And I thought that
was just really fascinating, so interesting. Yeah, I know, and
you know, there's a lot of great studies, So I'm
just wondering, you know, Lie, did you find anything that
you found interesting on this subject when it comes to
(10:02):
the science.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, Well, to sort of pick up where you left off,
I think that brain function improvement is maybe a reason
or it sort of jives with a study that was
published that looked at the possible similarity or overlap between
concepts or what they call the concept or we're describing
(10:25):
as the state of being authentic and mindfulness, and they
found that there was actually quite a bit of overlap,
so that when a so that generally an authentic person
is more mindful and a mindful person is more authentic.
Now that may seem kind of obvious, but if we
think about mindfulness and what we know about mindfulness practices,
(10:49):
which can include meditation, it's not just meditation, but mindful eating,
meditation practice, contemplative listening, you know, mindful listen, No, I'm
listening to music, like all sorts of ways when can
be mindful where it's really just when you pay attention
to all the thoughts in your head without getting attached
(11:10):
to them. For lack of a that's a very simplistic definition,
but let's just go at that for a moment, and
that effort of focus is actually something that exercises the
brain in new ways, so it increases neuroplasticity. And I
think maybe congruence is actually doing a similar thing since
they overlap, and that there may be ways in which
(11:31):
being authentic is almost similarly like a way of focusing
your thoughts so that you're aware of and almost like
accepting of yourself fully, which is also kind of what
happens when you're mindful. You're aware of your thoughts and
you just accept the thoughts without getting attached to them.
(11:53):
And so there's something happening on the brain side there
that makes that more more kind of sense. But regardless,
one path, if you will, or avenue to being authentic
is in fact, to be more mindful, to be more aware.
And I talked about this earlier, just having this sense
of self awareness and this willingness to look at who
(12:19):
we are, how we're bringing ourselves forward into any given situation.
Are we speaking with you words that actually reflect our feeling?
Are we responding in a way that's authentically real for us?
Like all these things require a certain amount of self awareness.
So I found that study very interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And let me just say, I love how you said
that that that mindfulness can be a path to increased authenticity.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I love that, Yeah, absolutely, I mean I've seen that
in my own life for sure. And kind of along
those lines, there was another study about the role of
honesty and integrity for one's health and so they looked
at whether this sort of the ability to be honest,
(13:13):
which is another way to describe being authentic, especially when
you combine it with integrity. So if you're just really honest,
very brutally honest, almost about who you are, what you feel,
how you are in a situation, and you have the
integrity to hold onto that honesty and to abide by it,
(13:33):
that the combination of those things actually can predict your
physical and mental health and that it is a factor
in how you feel about your life. So mental health,
so your sense of well being is higher when you
have that combined sense of honesty and integrity, and interestingly,
(13:56):
you have greater health. In fact, in this study, they
found that they surveyed almost ten thousand older adults, followed
them for four years, and they found that those who
had the highest levels of honesty and integrity or what
we were calling integrity, actually had a eighteen percent lower
risk of developing lung disease, an eleven percent lower risk
(14:18):
of developing depression. They were more physically mobile, they had
less interference with activities of daily living. And these are
just you know, some of the things they measured, But
that's kind of amazing, like really amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Actually, Oh, I agree, especially when you're talking about physical effects.
So it enhances physical health as well, because you know,
I think about mental health and spiritual health and all
these other things as it relates to congruence, but I
don't think I always thought about physical health. So that's
a great study.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, And you know what's so interesting about that too,
is if you think about this is like a feed
forward cycle, because if you are being authentic, then you
are really just bringing a sense of I mean it's obvious,
I think to most of people listening. If you're being
true to yourself, you're going to feel better about yourself.
You're just going to feel better because you're bringing your
(15:14):
whole self forward into the moment. And then with the
now findings of your physical health improving. When you have
greater physical health, it gives you more energy, physical energy,
which allows you then to engage in your life more.
So then you're going to feel mentally and emotionally better
about your life. So you're kind of compounding the benefits
(15:37):
over time.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Good point. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, So I kind of want to ask you a question, Carolyn.
I'd like to just before we go on well, first
of all, do you have any other studies you want
to bring forward, because you usually do.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I know, but I'm holding back because I do want
to get into the practical side of things. But yeah,
there was a lot out there that I found interesting. Okay, yeah,
well that's what I was going to do too, is
just go to that. So you start tell me about
some of the practical ways that you feel like people
can enhance their authenticity, encourage and be more genuine and
(16:16):
more congruent. Okay, great, thank you. So sometimes I like
to look at the opposite of something, because sometimes it
can be hard. You say, oh, I want to be
more authentic. It's like, oh, yeah, doesn't everybody. But sometimes
I think if I look at the opposite, that may
(16:37):
point me in the right direction. So in this case,
I feel like the opposite of being congruent and authentic
is being defensive and insecure. Those could be opposite things,
so that becomes my cue that something's off. So if
I find myself feeling or being defensive and or insecure,
(17:00):
it tells me that I'm not being authentic, which helps
me pause and then look at what's going on more closely.
You know, early on in the show. You brought up
such a good point. Self awareness is key. So what
I like to do is identify a trigger that triggers
this self awareness, and then I get to, you know,
(17:23):
make better choices. So my goal is to not be
defensive and insecure, because those are the polar opposites of
authenticity and congruence, you know. My goal in those moments
is to switch pause, be aware, and make choices, to
be transparent, to communicate clearly with compassion, and then take
(17:49):
responsibility for my actions. So I find sometimes it's easier
for me to identify when I'm being defensive and insecure
than it is when I'm being authentic. Almost so, these
these more what one might deem as negative characteristics or
negative qualities or negative emotions actually become a trigger to
(18:13):
transform them into something more positive like authenticity.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Well, I love that you.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
First of all, that's a really beautiful way to take
something that can otherwise cause you to kind of spury
yourself in spiral downs and instead sort of say, Okay, WHOA,
what's happening here? So, and I love that you're using
a trigger, like you're paying attention to something that will
then guide you towards a more authentic way of being,
(18:43):
and I do a similar thing. So for me, I
look for physical triggers. So when I'm in alignment with myself,
sometimes I can actually feel it in my body. And
so sometimes I feel it like if anybody knows about
the chakra system, it's a sort of an energy system
of energy centers throughout the body that go from kind
(19:06):
of the base of the spine all the way up
to the crown of the head, and you can I
can sometimes feel myself getting more energy in my energetic
centers when I'm in alignment with something, and the opposite
can be true as well. If I'm doing something that
doesn't feel physically right, I can sometimes get actually a
(19:26):
little nauseous, or my head gets not like a headache,
but it just kind of hurts a little bit, just
feels funny. Occasionally I'll have like a sort of a immediately,
like a stiff neck. So it's like the bodies can
react right away to something that you're kind of on
this level of things. So if I'm attuned enough to
(19:48):
my body, I can actually feel when I'm in alignment
with something and when I'm not, And if I pay
attention to that alignment. I can then dissect whatever's going on,
figure out what about the situation isn't right for me
at that moment, and obviously try to change it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Okay, I have a question for you because I love this.
I'm I'm a huge fan of the chakra system and
I sometimes meditate to it. And so how does this relate?
Can you pick up on other people's energy to help
you know how? There's that old saying you read the room.
(20:29):
So I'm trying to have my energy and intuition pick
up on other people's and see if I can evaluate
their authenticity and their congruence, because frankly, incongruence makes me nervous.
I'm just going to tell you. So if I can
(20:50):
pick up on somebody else's authenticity and congruence, I take
a deep breath. So do you apply that same concept
of what you were just talking about to kind of
read the room?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah? Such a good question. And I know you're really
good at reading the room, and you're also working really
hard to develop that ability within yourself, which is wonderful.
And I think that I do feel like, I mean,
I miss it sometimes for sure, So I'll be honest,
But there are definitely times when there's something about another
(21:29):
person that just makes my skin crawl a little bit,
and it's just this sense of inauthenticness coming from them.
So like, sometimes people are putting on a good face
and they're being really jovial, but I can tell they're
not feeling that way sort of so you might not
(21:50):
even see it, but you can feel the fakeness of
their emotion in the situation. That's one time I can
feel it usually, or another time I do feel it,
and others. I don't know about you, but sometimes people
will be saying something that I can tell they don't
really know very much about, or they don't believe in themselves,
so they're sort of talking inauthentically, do you know what
(22:13):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it's kind of like you can tell they're doing
the whole fake it till you make it kind of thing. Yeah,
which relates to my whole concept about insecurity. That to
me is insecure action and that is the opposite of authenticity.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, And I think in those situations, like you know,
it is possible to actually feel it in your body.
You can you just feel different ways depending on the circumstances.
But sometimes when I'm around that, I'll feel, like I said,
my skin will kind of feel like I just get
that skin crawly feeling, or I might literally just get
some physical discomfort somewhere. I mean, I've really started to
(22:55):
pay attention to the bodily response to these things, because
these sometimes are almost subconscious, Like we're not necessarily thinking
our way through this, we're not necessarily analyzing the situation.
Within seconds of interacting with somebody, the authenticity of the
interaction or the inauthenticity of the interaction we feel. So
(23:19):
I think the more we can become in tune with
our bodily reactions, the more we can get to that
sort of innate, subconscious way in which we all influence
each other.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I would agree, And I think that's the big
takeaway is to really trust your body, trust those sensations,
trust your intuition, trust yourself, and really allow your body,
your physical body, to become kind of an energetic gauge
(23:51):
not only for yourself the discomfort within yourself, but also
in trying to determine how others are are acting and
if you want to interact with them. I think that's
you know, that's that's important. Are there like when I
when I think about ways to build this muscle, this
(24:14):
authenticity muscle, and this congruence. You know, are there other
ways like it? You know? Uh, you know I've in
the past, not recently, but in the past, I have
done a lot of journaling, and I will write about
uh times when I'm not you know, feeling authentic, or
(24:37):
I'm not tapping into my intuition or just all of
these concepts that we're describing today journaling. I find that
being around animals is an amazing way to develop congruence.
So are there any other ways that we can develop
this muscle? Well, I love that you said being around animals.
(24:58):
That's so interesting, and it's true because when you around animals,
you are immediately brought into the present moment and there
is nothing but honestly in the present moment. And that's
really what I was going to say, is I think
going back to mindfulness, in a mindfulness practice or an
awareness practice, and so working hard to remove our disassociative behaviors, whether.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
That's you know, taking drugs or drinking too much alcohol
or mind mindlessly engaging in binge watching of some show
or I mean, these are all things we can do,
of course on occasion. I'm not saying these are never ever,
but they are not compatible with being present fully in
(25:47):
the moment, nor are they compatible with being able to
really go to that deep place within to find our
well of authenticity. So if we're struggling to understand is
that am I in the right job? Or am I
in the right career even or am I in the
right relationship? Instead of going to try to figure that
out by numbing ourselves to it, we really I think
(26:10):
the only answer we can find within is to be
present with ourselves and to be honest with ourselves, which
means we have to just let ourselves see what's in
there and feel what's in there, and pay attention to
how our body feels, let our thoughts emerge, journal what
we you know, free journal, free associate journal. All these
things help us to access our true inner core, true
(26:33):
inner knowing, and then we can, I think, find our authenticity.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yes, And if the question is can being congruent and
authentic help enhance your physical, mental, and spiritual health, I
say heck yeah. I mean, you know, so finding ways
to be more congruent and more authentic and more genuine
and more accountable really, I think finding ways to infuse
(27:03):
that into your life and your personality, your physical, mental,
and spiritual health will benefit. Once you Agreeleies, I would.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And I just want to add one other thing, which
is that there are many of us walking around this
world very traumatized. All of us have inner trauma that
we've carried around since we were children. All of us,
every single one of us, and some of us have
very significant traumas, and so there's a lot of self
protective layering that we've put into place that don't allow
(27:33):
ourselves to access that true authenticness because it's not safe
to do so, it doesn't feel safe to do so.
So I think even another step that we haven't really
talked about, but I just want to bring forward, is
that if it's really hard to if people are like
I just don't know, I just can't get there, then
that's maybe a time to find some therapy or a practice,
(27:55):
a yoga practice, or a mindfulness practice that will help
you develop a sense of safety. Maybe companion animal that
you mentioned, Carolyn, something that will allow you to create
a safe environment so that it feels safe to go
with it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Absolutely, that's a great, great way to end. So this
has been a great show. So once again, Lise, I'm
going to thank our sponsors, pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep Formula,
Immuse post biotic to give your immune system that extra boost,
Cognizancenicoli to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor
Ohira's award winning shelf Stable probiotic. This has been a
(28:32):
great show, Lise.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It has and Carolyn, I really compliment you on being
a beautifully authentic individual. I'm happy to have you in
my life and everyone listening, may you all experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time to thrive. Everyone have a
great names.
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazella and I'm joined by my awesome co host
and good friend, doctor Lese Alschuler. Hello, Lise, how are
you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm doing pretty well. It's been one of those days,
to be honest, you know, like every thing I do,
I have had trouble. Like I went to do the
laundry and the little label of my vinegar slipped off
the bottle and then the vinegar and all the glass
went crashing down to the floor. Oh no, no, I
(01:14):
was trying to get on the show. I was having
tech tech issues. So one of those days to be honest. Okay, well,
you know what, it's all going to change right now
it is.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How are you there? They good? Yeah? I actually went golfing,
so they're doing great. Well, what are we going to
talk about today? You know what, least this is an
interesting one and it's maybe something that a lot of
people haven't even given a lot of thought too. So
we're going to be talking about how being congruent, authentic,
(01:49):
and genuine can benefit not only our mental, emotional, and
spiritual health, but also our physical health. And like I said,
this might not be a health stres strategy that people
have thought of, but I feel it's super powerful and
I can't wait to dig in. But first, Lise, why
don't you go ahead and think our wonderful sponsors.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We'll be happy to do that. So first, we have iMUSE,
which is a unique, patented post biotic that gives your
immune system a key advantage. Muse is found in many
immune supporting dietary supplements, so look forward on the label
or go to immusehealth dot com for more information. We
also thank Cognizance citicoline to keep your brain firing on
(02:32):
all cylinders to enhance your memory, focus, and attention, So
look for Cognizant on the label of a dietary supplement
for brain health or go to Cognizant dot com for
more information. We also thank Prothrivers Wellness Brain and pro
Thrivers Wellness supplements in general. Pro Thrivers Wellness Brain contains
(02:53):
cognizant and some other brain supporting nutrients, and you can
find pro Thriver's Wellness Brain at Pure Formulas dot com.
And you'll also find pro Thriver's Wellness Sleep which combines
higher dose melatonin and some other sleep supporting natural ingredients.
And finally, doctor or Heroes Probiotics a best selling probiotic
(03:14):
for more than three decades which contains twelve probiotic strains
that are shelf stable so no refrigeration is required due
to their unique three year fermentation process, and it is
a very effective probiotic and you can learn more at
doctor Orhireprobiotics dot com. Okay, Carolyn, where would you like
(03:34):
to begin when it comes to talking about congruence? O,
you know what, Let's begin by describing it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So when you look up the word congruent, you'll find
descriptors like harmony, agreement, consistency, things that fit together. But
more specifically, it's when our actions match our words and
are consistent with our values, beliefs, and personality. So when
we are congruent, we are authentic and genuine. So least,
(04:05):
when I'm evaluating and looking at my own congruence and authenticity,
I ask myself. Am I being transparent? Am I being
true to myself? Am I being consistent? Am I making
deliberate choices? And am I taking responsibility for those choices
and actions. So that's what congruence is to me, and
(04:27):
that's what we're going to be talking about. We're going
to be talking about how that impacts our health, but
least before we dig into the science, which you and
I love to do. Do you have anything else to
add to the description of today's show, Well, you know,
for me, in addition to what you said congruence, I
(04:48):
often talk about being in the right life. So that
might mean aligning ourselves with the right job, the right relationship,
the right location where we live, you know, all that
kind of stuff. And I think that kind of aligns
our inner drive with our outer expression.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
But in order to do that, we have to be
self aware. So we have to be have some degree
of self reflection and the ability to look within enough
to understand where the incongruence may lie. And you know,
we can maybe come back to this, but being in
congruence is not necessarily easier straightforward, I guess, is the
(05:29):
thing I would like to add. Yeah, it's very true
and I also would like to say that you know
that there are, of course, as you mentioned, there's research
associated with the benefits of being congruent and kind of
(05:50):
having this sense of transparency and being true to oneself.
So I'm wondering, Karen, if you have an example of
a paper that you've found that is a interest to
you one.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Are you kidding me? Actually was? I was surprised at
what I found. I mean, this is a somewhat vague
concept and it is isn't easy to grasp, but I
found a lot. So I'm going to focus on authenticity.
So in one study, and this was from twenty nineteen,
(06:22):
they looked at five dimensions of authenticity, you know, authenticity
and a relationship, you know, resisting external pressures, expressing your
true self, contentment, and owning your actions. And then they
also contrasted that to four dimensions of being inauthentic, and
(06:43):
that is phoniness, suppressing your feelings and emotions, self denigration.
I thought that was an interesting dimension of inauthenticity and conformity.
So what they've found is that the people who were
most authentic and the least inauthentic had higher levels of
(07:03):
self esteem, higher levels of psychological well being, more positive
affect and much higher levels of relationship quality. So I
think that that's an indication of the psychological benefits. But
another study that I thought was really interesting looked at
(07:24):
authenticity and healthcare, and this is where I think that
we really get to potential physical outcomes. So what the
study looked at is what impact did being authentic have
on patients? And they took it one step further, what
impact did it have on the health of the worker
(07:46):
the health of the healthcare worker. What they found is
that when the workers were the most authentic, patient outcomes
were improved dramatically, and they also found that staff well
being in the healthcare setting was improved dramatically when the
(08:08):
workers were more authentic as well. And I found this
interesting because the researcher concluded that one of the benefits,
the reason it was so beneficial to the staff, is
that authentic relationships are powerful drivers of trust. Yes, so
when we are authentic, we are trustworthy and that makes
(08:31):
a difference in not only our co workers, but also
in the patients that were helping. So I thought that
was a very fascinating study. And I just have one
more for you. This one was a little bit over
my head, but I want to bring it up anyway.
So in twenty twenty three, these researchers looked at how
authenticity impacted the physical functioning of the brain, and what
(08:57):
they found was that there's a region, there are regions
in the brain that support self awareness. Authenticity influences these regions,
which is related to what they're calling self alienation and
(09:17):
self reported anxiety. They describe self alienation as being aware
of physicological states, emotions, and just cognition in general. So
what they've found is that when you're authentic, these regions
in the brain are supported, and they have a lot
less self reported anxiety and much lower self alienation, so
(09:40):
they kind of go hand in hand. When you're more authentic,
you're actually physically enhancing brain function. And I thought that
was just really fascinating, so interesting. Yeah, I know, and
you know, there's a lot of great studies, So I'm
just wondering, you know, Lie, did you find anything that
you found interesting on this subject when it comes to
(10:02):
the science.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, Well, to sort of pick up where you left off,
I think that brain function improvement is maybe a reason
or it sort of jives with a study that was
published that looked at the possible similarity or overlap between
concepts or what they call the concept or we're describing
(10:25):
as the state of being authentic and mindfulness, and they
found that there was actually quite a bit of overlap,
so that when a so that generally an authentic person
is more mindful and a mindful person is more authentic.
Now that may seem kind of obvious, but if we
think about mindfulness and what we know about mindfulness practices,
(10:49):
which can include meditation, it's not just meditation, but mindful eating,
meditation practice, contemplative listening, you know, mindful listen, No, I'm
listening to music, like all sorts of ways when can
be mindful where it's really just when you pay attention
to all the thoughts in your head without getting attached
(11:10):
to them. For lack of a that's a very simplistic definition,
but let's just go at that for a moment, and
that effort of focus is actually something that exercises the
brain in new ways, so it increases neuroplasticity. And I
think maybe congruence is actually doing a similar thing since
they overlap, and that there may be ways in which
(11:31):
being authentic is almost similarly like a way of focusing
your thoughts so that you're aware of and almost like
accepting of yourself fully, which is also kind of what
happens when you're mindful. You're aware of your thoughts and
you just accept the thoughts without getting attached to them.
(11:53):
And so there's something happening on the brain side there
that makes that more more kind of sense. But regardless,
one path, if you will, or avenue to being authentic
is in fact, to be more mindful, to be more aware.
And I talked about this earlier, just having this sense
of self awareness and this willingness to look at who
(12:19):
we are, how we're bringing ourselves forward into any given situation.
Are we speaking with you words that actually reflect our feeling?
Are we responding in a way that's authentically real for us?
Like all these things require a certain amount of self awareness.
So I found that study very interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And let me just say, I love how you said
that that that mindfulness can be a path to increased authenticity.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I love that, Yeah, absolutely, I mean I've seen that
in my own life for sure. And kind of along
those lines, there was another study about the role of
honesty and integrity for one's health and so they looked
at whether this sort of the ability to be honest,
(13:13):
which is another way to describe being authentic, especially when
you combine it with integrity. So if you're just really honest,
very brutally honest, almost about who you are, what you feel,
how you are in a situation, and you have the
integrity to hold onto that honesty and to abide by it,
(13:33):
that the combination of those things actually can predict your
physical and mental health and that it is a factor
in how you feel about your life. So mental health,
so your sense of well being is higher when you
have that combined sense of honesty and integrity, and interestingly,
(13:56):
you have greater health. In fact, in this study, they
found that they surveyed almost ten thousand older adults, followed
them for four years, and they found that those who
had the highest levels of honesty and integrity or what
we were calling integrity, actually had a eighteen percent lower
risk of developing lung disease, an eleven percent lower risk
(14:18):
of developing depression. They were more physically mobile, they had
less interference with activities of daily living. And these are
just you know, some of the things they measured, But
that's kind of amazing, like really amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Actually, Oh, I agree, especially when you're talking about physical effects.
So it enhances physical health as well, because you know,
I think about mental health and spiritual health and all
these other things as it relates to congruence, but I
don't think I always thought about physical health. So that's
a great study.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, And you know what's so interesting about that too,
is if you think about this is like a feed
forward cycle, because if you are being authentic, then you
are really just bringing a sense of I mean it's obvious,
I think to most of people listening. If you're being
true to yourself, you're going to feel better about yourself.
You're just going to feel better because you're bringing your
(15:14):
whole self forward into the moment. And then with the
now findings of your physical health improving. When you have
greater physical health, it gives you more energy, physical energy,
which allows you then to engage in your life more.
So then you're going to feel mentally and emotionally better
about your life. So you're kind of compounding the benefits
(15:37):
over time.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Good point. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, So I kind of want to ask you a question, Carolyn.
I'd like to just before we go on well, first
of all, do you have any other studies you want
to bring forward, because you usually do.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I know, but I'm holding back because I do want
to get into the practical side of things. But yeah,
there was a lot out there that I found interesting. Okay, yeah,
well that's what I was going to do too, is
just go to that. So you start tell me about
some of the practical ways that you feel like people
can enhance their authenticity, encourage and be more genuine and
(16:16):
more congruent. Okay, great, thank you. So sometimes I like
to look at the opposite of something, because sometimes it
can be hard. You say, oh, I want to be
more authentic. It's like, oh, yeah, doesn't everybody. But sometimes
I think if I look at the opposite, that may
(16:37):
point me in the right direction. So in this case,
I feel like the opposite of being congruent and authentic
is being defensive and insecure. Those could be opposite things,
so that becomes my cue that something's off. So if
I find myself feeling or being defensive and or insecure,
(17:00):
it tells me that I'm not being authentic, which helps
me pause and then look at what's going on more closely.
You know, early on in the show. You brought up
such a good point. Self awareness is key. So what
I like to do is identify a trigger that triggers
this self awareness, and then I get to, you know,
(17:23):
make better choices. So my goal is to not be
defensive and insecure, because those are the polar opposites of
authenticity and congruence, you know. My goal in those moments
is to switch pause, be aware, and make choices, to
be transparent, to communicate clearly with compassion, and then take
(17:49):
responsibility for my actions. So I find sometimes it's easier
for me to identify when I'm being defensive and insecure
than it is when I'm being authentic. Almost so, these
these more what one might deem as negative characteristics or
negative qualities or negative emotions actually become a trigger to
(18:13):
transform them into something more positive like authenticity.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Well, I love that you.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
First of all, that's a really beautiful way to take
something that can otherwise cause you to kind of spury
yourself in spiral downs and instead sort of say, Okay, WHOA,
what's happening here? So, and I love that you're using
a trigger, like you're paying attention to something that will
then guide you towards a more authentic way of being,
(18:43):
and I do a similar thing. So for me, I
look for physical triggers. So when I'm in alignment with myself,
sometimes I can actually feel it in my body. And
so sometimes I feel it like if anybody knows about
the chakra system, it's a sort of an energy system
of energy centers throughout the body that go from kind
(19:06):
of the base of the spine all the way up
to the crown of the head, and you can I
can sometimes feel myself getting more energy in my energetic
centers when I'm in alignment with something, and the opposite
can be true as well. If I'm doing something that
doesn't feel physically right, I can sometimes get actually a
(19:26):
little nauseous, or my head gets not like a headache,
but it just kind of hurts a little bit, just
feels funny. Occasionally I'll have like a sort of a immediately,
like a stiff neck. So it's like the bodies can
react right away to something that you're kind of on
this level of things. So if I'm attuned enough to
(19:48):
my body, I can actually feel when I'm in alignment
with something and when I'm not, And if I pay
attention to that alignment. I can then dissect whatever's going on,
figure out what about the situation isn't right for me
at that moment, and obviously try to change it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Okay, I have a question for you because I love this.
I'm I'm a huge fan of the chakra system and
I sometimes meditate to it. And so how does this relate?
Can you pick up on other people's energy to help
you know how? There's that old saying you read the room.
(20:29):
So I'm trying to have my energy and intuition pick
up on other people's and see if I can evaluate
their authenticity and their congruence, because frankly, incongruence makes me nervous.
I'm just going to tell you. So if I can
(20:50):
pick up on somebody else's authenticity and congruence, I take
a deep breath. So do you apply that same concept
of what you were just talking about to kind of
read the room?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah? Such a good question. And I know you're really
good at reading the room, and you're also working really
hard to develop that ability within yourself, which is wonderful.
And I think that I do feel like, I mean,
I miss it sometimes for sure, So I'll be honest,
But there are definitely times when there's something about another
(21:29):
person that just makes my skin crawl a little bit,
and it's just this sense of inauthenticness coming from them.
So like, sometimes people are putting on a good face
and they're being really jovial, but I can tell they're
not feeling that way sort of so you might not
(21:50):
even see it, but you can feel the fakeness of
their emotion in the situation. That's one time I can
feel it usually, or another time I do feel it,
and others. I don't know about you, but sometimes people
will be saying something that I can tell they don't
really know very much about, or they don't believe in themselves,
so they're sort of talking inauthentically, do you know what
(22:13):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it's kind of like you can tell they're doing
the whole fake it till you make it kind of thing. Yeah,
which relates to my whole concept about insecurity. That to
me is insecure action and that is the opposite of authenticity.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, And I think in those situations, like you know,
it is possible to actually feel it in your body.
You can you just feel different ways depending on the circumstances.
But sometimes when I'm around that, I'll feel, like I said,
my skin will kind of feel like I just get
that skin crawly feeling, or I might literally just get
some physical discomfort somewhere. I mean, I've really started to
(22:55):
pay attention to the bodily response to these things, because
these sometimes are almost subconscious, Like we're not necessarily thinking
our way through this, we're not necessarily analyzing the situation.
Within seconds of interacting with somebody, the authenticity of the
interaction or the inauthenticity of the interaction we feel. So
(23:19):
I think the more we can become in tune with
our bodily reactions, the more we can get to that
sort of innate, subconscious way in which we all influence
each other.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I would agree, And I think that's the big
takeaway is to really trust your body, trust those sensations,
trust your intuition, trust yourself, and really allow your body,
your physical body, to become kind of an energetic gauge
(23:51):
not only for yourself the discomfort within yourself, but also
in trying to determine how others are are acting and
if you want to interact with them. I think that's
you know, that's that's important. Are there like when I
when I think about ways to build this muscle, this
(24:14):
authenticity muscle, and this congruence. You know, are there other
ways like it? You know? Uh, you know I've in
the past, not recently, but in the past, I have
done a lot of journaling, and I will write about
uh times when I'm not you know, feeling authentic, or
(24:37):
I'm not tapping into my intuition or just all of
these concepts that we're describing today journaling. I find that
being around animals is an amazing way to develop congruence.
So are there any other ways that we can develop
this muscle? Well, I love that you said being around animals.
(24:58):
That's so interesting, and it's true because when you around animals,
you are immediately brought into the present moment and there
is nothing but honestly in the present moment. And that's
really what I was going to say, is I think
going back to mindfulness, in a mindfulness practice or an
awareness practice, and so working hard to remove our disassociative behaviors, whether.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
That's you know, taking drugs or drinking too much alcohol
or mind mindlessly engaging in binge watching of some show
or I mean, these are all things we can do,
of course on occasion. I'm not saying these are never ever,
but they are not compatible with being present fully in
(25:47):
the moment, nor are they compatible with being able to
really go to that deep place within to find our
well of authenticity. So if we're struggling to understand is
that am I in the right job? Or am I
in the right career even or am I in the
right relationship? Instead of going to try to figure that
out by numbing ourselves to it, we really I think
(26:10):
the only answer we can find within is to be
present with ourselves and to be honest with ourselves, which
means we have to just let ourselves see what's in
there and feel what's in there, and pay attention to
how our body feels, let our thoughts emerge, journal what
we you know, free journal, free associate journal. All these
things help us to access our true inner core, true
(26:33):
inner knowing, and then we can, I think, find our authenticity.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yes, And if the question is can being congruent and
authentic help enhance your physical, mental, and spiritual health, I
say heck yeah. I mean, you know, so finding ways
to be more congruent and more authentic and more genuine
and more accountable really, I think finding ways to infuse
(27:03):
that into your life and your personality, your physical, mental,
and spiritual health will benefit. Once you Agreeleies, I would.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And I just want to add one other thing, which
is that there are many of us walking around this
world very traumatized. All of us have inner trauma that
we've carried around since we were children. All of us,
every single one of us, and some of us have
very significant traumas, and so there's a lot of self
protective layering that we've put into place that don't allow
(27:33):
ourselves to access that true authenticness because it's not safe
to do so, it doesn't feel safe to do so.
So I think even another step that we haven't really
talked about, but I just want to bring forward, is
that if it's really hard to if people are like
I just don't know, I just can't get there, then
that's maybe a time to find some therapy or a practice,
(27:55):
a yoga practice, or a mindfulness practice that will help
you develop a sense of safety. Maybe companion animal that
you mentioned, Carolyn, something that will allow you to create
a safe environment so that it feels safe to go
with it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Absolutely, that's a great, great way to end. So this
has been a great show. So once again, Lise, I'm
going to thank our sponsors, pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep Formula,
Immuse post biotic to give your immune system that extra boost,
Cognizancenicoli to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor
Ohira's award winning shelf Stable probiotic. This has been a
(28:32):
great show, Lise.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It has and Carolyn, I really compliment you on being
a beautifully authentic individual. I'm happy to have you in
my life and everyone listening, may you all experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time to thrive. Everyone have a
great names.
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