May 21, 2024 • 30 mins
On this episode, I will be talking with Dr. Patricia StandTal Clarke, medical doctor, Protestant Priest, and Cherokee Medicine Healer. We will learn about Cherokee medicine and the training path of Cherokee Medicine Healers. We will also discuss the importance of nature, plant medicine and global ecology to the healing traditions of Native Americans.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello, Welcome toThrall Live. I'm doctor Lisath Schuler and
(00:45):
I co host the show with mygood buddy and co author Carolyn Gazelle.
Can find some of our past showpodcasts on iHeartRadio, Spotify, Pandora,
you name it your favorite podcasts podcastoutlet. We'll have five Thrive Live well
tonight. I will be talking withdoctor Patricius Stantall Clark about Cherokee medicine.
(01:08):
Vicious Dan Taal Clark is a Sammiand Eastern Band Cherokee. After seventeen years
of training from seven Elders, shewas made a Di Dana Whiskey, which
is a Cherokee medicine healer. She'sgonna tell us more about that. She
received her bachelor's ethnobotany from UC Berkeley. She also has a medical degree from
(01:32):
University of Minnesota and did her familymedicine residency at Dartmouth. She was ordained
as a Protestant priest in nineteen eightyone. She's trained with Sophie Freud Loewenstein,
whose granddaughter of Sigmund Freud, inpsychoanalysis. She's served over forty nine
years with the United Nations, theWorld Health Organization, World Council of Churches,
(01:57):
and she's a fellow with the AmericanAcademy of Family Physicians, a founding
diplomat of the American Board of IntegrativeHolistic Medicine and the American Board of Integrative
Medicine. So before I introduce her, I'm going to thank our sponsors.
Without them, we would not behere. First, American Biosciences the makers
of metatrol, a fermented reeacher extractfor enhanced mitochondrial function. They also make
(02:23):
empower AHCC to supercharge your immune system, and you can get some free samples
look at research and all of thatis at a discount if you go to
Theharmonycompany dot com forward slash Thrive.We also think ammuse a unique patented post
biotic that gives the immune system akey advantage, and immuse is found in
(02:46):
many dietary supplements. You can learnmore at amusehealth dot com and Cognizance oft
cooline. Nature's a way of keepingthe brain going on all cylinders. So
if you'd like to enhance your brainfunction, memory, focus, and attention,
look for Cognizant on a dietary supplementlabel for brain health. You can
also go to cognizan dot com foror information and doctor our Heroes Probiotics,
(03:08):
a best selling progotic for over thirtyyears with twelve probiotic strains, shall stable
with that refereration due to their uniquethree year fermentation process, and you can
learn more at doctor Ohira probiotics dotcom. So with that, Doctor Clark,
welcome to five to Thrive Live.Hello, Hello, Hi, Well,
(03:29):
you have training in conventional extensive trainingin conventional medicines. You also have
trained as a psycho analyst. Youhave received training in Cherokee medicine healing,
and we're going to focus in facton the ladder today you're Cherokee medicine training.
But before we do that, howgiven all that training, how do
(03:51):
you when somebody asks what kind ofhealer are you? What do you say?
What a delightful question. My goodfriend Elizabeth Coogler Ross taught me a
healer is one who midwives the achievingof wholeness as a person. In becoming
whole again, one is healed.In so doing, I collaborate with persons
(04:16):
in the clinic, in community,and on the global stage to enable access
for all to the tools required forour own birthing and rebirthing into sustained wellness
and wholeness. For me, ithas been the honor of my life to
serve in this way. Mm hmm, beautiful, say the first part of
(04:42):
the first the quote again, ahealer is one who midwives the achieving of
wholeness as a person. Yeah,that's beautiful. I think there's that's We
could unpack that statement alone for thenext thirty minutes. Yeah, we rick
to move on, and because Ireally want to talk about the Cherokee healing
(05:03):
tradition, something the unspoken about onthe show. But first, just to
orient our listeners, where is theCherokee trick located? Well, the Cherokee
Nation's original home was in what iscalled Georgia. In eighteen twenty eight,
when gold was discovered in the region, Colonial settlers brought to Georgia America's first
(05:28):
gold rush. In eighteen thirty,Andrew Jackson signed the Indian Removal Act.
In an effort to remove Native Americansfrom the land rich in gold, the
United States government offered land west ofthe Mississippi River in exchange for the Cherokee
people's homeland. When this did notwork, five years later, General William
(05:50):
carrl seated most of the Cherokee lands, claiming a fraudulent Treaty of New Ekota,
which was never signed by our leaders. This led to what is now
referred to as the Trail of Tears. More than sixteen thousand Cherokees were gathered,
stripped of all their possessions, andwalked for six months twelve hundred miles
(06:14):
west to lands far far less desirable. More than four thousand Cherokees died sircumbing
to starvation, disease, exposure,and all inclusive exhaustion. Scholars have called
it ethnic cleansing by the United Statesgovernment. My people are the Eastern Bend
Cherokee Indians. Our ancestors are theones who escaped into the Appalachian Mountains during
(06:41):
the Trail of Tears and eventually becamea sovereign nation in eighteen eighty nine.
So our land is located in QualaTerritory in western North Carolina. Right so
there are related tribes, for example, in Texas, all of whom are
(07:02):
Cherokee in a sense, but they'rethey're sort of spread out throughout the southern
part of the United States for themost part. Yeah, yes, m
okay. So let's let's talk alittle bit about how medicine healers are chosen.
This is a very unique way oftraining healers, and the process really
(07:25):
is unique from the very gecko soap. Can you kind of describe to us
in brief how medicine healers are chosenin the Cherokee tradition. Sure, in
our way, one does not chooseto become a healer. The elders select
the ones to be trained. Theywatch for what they call wounded healer,
(07:47):
often a baby with a difficult birthor a physical deformity. Once trained,
this chosen one becomes a divanavisky,a Cherokee medicine person through communal ceremony.
Mm hmm. So this is somethingthat since it happens so early, children
(08:11):
are essentially anointed for lack of abetter word, as such, and probably
I would imagine from an early ageare treated differently because their destinies is before
them. I mean, does theirtraining start in childhood or how does their
training continue? Well, it mightbe better put that one is picked out
(08:35):
of the larger community to be observedto see if they would make a good
healer. So they're not really anoyedat birth, but they're followed for the
next six years of their life tosee if indeed they are an appropriate person
to learn our ways. Got itokay? And then what happened in the
(08:58):
training of an and I realized,first of all this question is not something
you can summarize in detail, butcan you give us just a sense of
how when somebody moves into the positionof being a Cherokee medicine healer, how
does their training occur? Well,So, as I said, the first
six years of life, the eldersobserve a candidate's character, and if she
(09:24):
displays the heart of a healer andis chosen, then she'll receive fifteen to
twenty years of full time training withseven different elders. I should note from
the time of the Religious Crimes Codeof eighteen eighty three, all Native American
medicine practices and ceremonies were banned inthe United States until the American Indian Religious
(09:52):
Freedom Act of nineteen seventy eight.During this time, native healers of whom
I have met, were put inprison, never to be seen again,
just for the learning or doing ofour medicine and ceremonies. This was an
aggressive government attempt of cultural genocide andled to the loss of much of our
(10:13):
ancestral wisdom. My training from nineteenfifty nine to nineteen seventy six was done
in secret for this reason. Andyet the traditions persisted, They were maintained.
Did they change before significantly before theban and prepared to actor? Do
(10:37):
you know, well? Our waysare in Turtle Island are over four hundred
thousand, excuse me, forty thousandyears, And so the body of knowledge
evolved over time, and it washanded down from traditional healer to traditional healer.
We actually learn in Cherokee, aspecial Cherokee meta language, so not
(11:01):
just anybody can learn our ways.So I wouldn't say that it's changed.
It evolved like anybody of knowledge.But what happened when we were put in
prison and and punished for learning anddoing our ways? Obviously the knowledge began
(11:22):
to disappear, and so there isa strong move to bring that knowledge back
because there's such a need. Socan you are you able to break down
Cherokee medicine training into like areas oftraining? I mean, how how is
(11:43):
what? What are you trained in? You know, like a typical as
as a medical doctor, you weretrained in the pathophysiology of disease. You
were trained in the use of varioustypically medications, but not only kind of
modalities to treat the disease, andthen trained in ways to monitor patient's response
(12:07):
to those medications. So that's howI would sort of briefly describe conventional training.
How would you describe Cherokee medicine ina similar way. Well, we
see ourselves as Cherokee medicine keepers incharge of the protection of plant medicine,
which is the mother of all life. Land medicine, which is the caretaking
(12:28):
of and living and balance with allrelations. Physical medicine which is bodywork,
osteopathy, thorn puncture, minor surgery, dermatology, and midwi free dream work
which is the interpretation of messages fromCreator on right, living Cherokee language which
(12:50):
includes our myths and cultural codes,laws of nature which some call laws of
science, and ceremonies, the dvisual and communal expression of walking in right
relationship with creator m hm. Soit's really more a very different philosophical approach
(13:13):
to health and healing. And somaybe we can talk about a few things
that come out of that tradition andthen we'll come back to you. Sort
of unique because you're unique in howyou integrate this. But let's just carry
on with this for a moment.So you mentioned plant medicine as being the
(13:33):
mother of all health, healing,et cetera. So what is plant medicine
and the Cherokee tradition? So wesee plant people as part of the larger
arena of relations and they have madea covenant to give us what we need
(13:56):
for healing. So all the plantpeople that live on planet Earth have a
place in our healing m hm.And by training from the knowledge passed on
(14:16):
from your trainers, your elders,et cetera, you learn indications for certain
plants, and then is their ceremonyaround how to utilize those plants. Oh,
another great question. So you're anherbalist, so you understand that it's
not one plant for one problem.It's a combination a remedy for an individual.
(14:43):
But the relationship with plant and theenergy of the plant is empowered according
to our way of doing medicine byhaving relationship with the seed, with the
seed of my ancestors. And soyes, many Turtle Island Native American peoples
(15:05):
from both both the United States andfrom Central and Latin America have rituals,
communal rituals that would come and makerelationship with seeds and uh and and pass
them down from from son to daughterto to to other Cherokee medicine people.
(15:31):
So it's a relationship. Mm hmmm. Yeah, this is just so different.
So how let me just want tobelabor this for a moment, because
so different. So when you areworking with somebody using your plant medicine,
what's the responsibility of the recipient?Do they too have to as part of
(15:54):
their healing involve creating their own relationshipto the plants or acknowledging that relationship or
you know, how does that work? Well, here's the art of being
a healer, isn't it. SoI have the plant medicines that I like
to use and I have had arelationship with over my seventy years, and
(16:18):
I think they're more powerful than somebodywho just buys it at the store.
But then individuals may have an illnessthat would be benefited by a combination of
plant people, and I would encouragethem to develop a relationship with those plants
(16:42):
as part of your healing work.Absolutely, Now, not all people,
as you say, this is abit different, and so when I work
with Native Americans, they're much moreopen to this and oftentimes have experienced it
in their lifetime or their family.But non Native people sometimes needs some time
(17:03):
to adjust to the idea of plantshaving energy to heal them. Mm hmm.
Right, Well, what about themedicine wiel. This is sort of
the symbol that's become popularized as representingindigenous healing, and there's definitely a Cherokee
(17:26):
medicine wheel. Can you just describewhat that is? Well, the medicine
wheel is not a Cherokee term,but it's also called the sacred circle to
many Native people. It represents thenatural cycles of life and the basic way
in which the natural world, includinghumans, moves and evolves. It represents
(17:49):
the power of birth, death,and then rebirth into a stronger, more
energized life. For example, fromNative garden is the drought tolerant Echinasia cone
flower. After flowering for a longseason, this Queen of the Daisies dies,
(18:11):
only to come back next season stronger, more resilient, and infinitely elegant,
beautiful. So cycle birth and birth, etc. Okay, so you
know you are ordained as a Protestantpriest, and I would imagine that tradition
(18:33):
is quite different in many ways thanthe tradition of the Cherokee, and really,
in fact both of those being differentthan conventional medicine. So how do
you integrate all of that into yourhealing work. You might be surprised how
many Native Americans really feel comfortable inthe Christian tradition. As one of our
(18:56):
elders in the eighteen hundred said,there's nothing in that Bible that is incongruent
with our way of living. Soas a Cherokee medicine healer, it's my
duty to show others how to weavetheir spiritual world into a tapestry of balance
with their natural world throughout the journeyof their life, each step of the
(19:19):
way, listening to their ancestors andmaking decisions that result in a sustainable world
seven generations into the future. Tous, healing is not always curing.
It is a living in harmony withinourselves. And with all relations. We
call it the Red Road, adeep commitment to living life in a good
(19:42):
way with an intrinsic respect for others, oneself, and creation, enabled by
a dedication to walk the road asCreator teaches. In this way, we
are healed from disase. All peoplesare spiritual at their core. This is
(20:03):
a critical component of my work withpatients. M hm. Yes, So
I would say that definitely is anice there's a nice synergy between the Protestant
path or belief system and the Cherokeetradition conventionalism. I'm not sure conventional medicine
(20:25):
really takes on spirituality in that way, do you think. Well, that's
why I'm an integrated medicine practitioner.And although in our field it is we
call it body mind soul, youand I are teaching people more about the
(20:45):
soul m m yeah, right,which is I would say, really at
the heart or at the core ofhealing, even if people don't know it
as such. There's just you know, for true deep healing to happen,
it has to happen on more thana physical level in really almost every case.
(21:07):
So I think that you know thesesystems, these traditions and cultures have
codified in many ways a process thatcan get us their facilitate a deep healing
which is important and beautiful, doyou you know? And that kind of
speaks to the perspective of chercuments inwhich which you've talked about as being an
(21:27):
ecology of healing, and can youdescribe that a little bit, I'll try
so. Eco healing focuses on thesignificant role nature plays and the promotion,
the promotion and the maintenance of people'shealth and the health of the social system
in which we live. Indigenous peoplesbelieve we have a duty in protecting the
(21:52):
plant's diversity. It is our sophisticatedknowledge of the natural world that enables land
in incluting forests and biodiversity to flourish. Traditional indigenous knowledge has helped communities sustainably
manage territories and natural resources, frompredicting natural disasters to protecting biologically critical areas,
(22:18):
as well as identifying medicinal plants.For example, Indigenous forestry plays a
critical role in reducing global warming byrestoring biodiversity and health to these ecosystems,
including the management of culturally significant plants, animals, and fungi that contribute to
(22:40):
healthier soil. Our knowledge is basedon millennia of observations and a holistic kinship
based relationship with all of life.We understand the powerful medicine land offers for
healing ourselves. Land encompasses all lifeforms in spaces, all our living relatives
four legged, two legged, wingedones, swimmers, crawlers, plant and
(23:04):
rock people. Our regenitive relationships withland are based on generations of deep interconnectedness
that we Native people have been taught. Through our theologies, ceremonies, and
languages, and caring for the land, we are able to listen to Creator's
(23:25):
way of living. Land energy healsour body, mind and soul. The
idea of owning land is foreign tonational to Native people. Do we own
God? Land is our mother.Land is capable of sensing and feeling,
responsive to the sensations of seeing,hearing, feeling, tasting, and smelling.
(23:51):
Land holds the essence of healing energy. When land senses are disease,
she provides the healing in n energywe need. Our very bodies are made
up of waters and oxygen of land. We are land. We are the
green things that grow. If allof those were taken from Earth, there
(24:14):
would be no life. If allthe four legged creatures were taken from Earth,
there would be no life. Ifall the winged creatures were taken from
Earth, there could be no life. If all our relatives who crawl and
swim and live within the earth weretaken away, there could be no life.
If land were to die, therewould be no life. But if
(24:34):
all human beings were taken away,life on Earth would flourish. This is
what our grandmothers teach us as children. H Yeah, beautiful. I mean
that interconnectedness, the interdependency, theecology is really the right word, is
(24:56):
so important because the perspective that itprovides whatever we're contending with on a health
or illness level and really brings itout to such a perspective, how is
the health of the planet affecting?How am I taking on the health of
the planet. How is my conditionreflective what's going on in the other beings
(25:22):
around me? And I think withthat perspective, you know there's an opportunity
to bring about, if not greaterhealing, at least greater insight into the
condition and healing, which has itsown value. I mean, when you're
working with people, especially given yourcycle, your background and psychoanalysis. Do
you find yourself ever working on justthe physical body? Oh? Yes,
(25:49):
it's so intertwined, right, it'snot divided in these categories of mind,
body spirit. When you have aperson in front of you tilling their story
and sharing what they're concerned about,you know, it slips into body,
mind, soul. So for mehaving done this for what nearly fifty years,
(26:14):
it's all kind of one presentation andone tapestry of healing modalities. Yeah,
yeah, for sure. So Iguess you know, I'd like to
ask, I think you've described landmedicine. Do you have anything you'd like
to share about how you prescribe landmedicine. This is I literally take a
(26:41):
paper and write down time with nature. You know, humans have enjoyed forests,
prairie, desert, water environments forages because it's so beautiful. But
interestingly, in Japan, since twothousand and four, a series of studies
(27:02):
have been conducted to investigate the effectsof forest environment on human health. A
whole new science has emerged called forestmedicine and an innovative interdisciplinary science expanding our
knowledge of integrative medicine, environmental medicine, preventive medicine, even theology and methods
(27:22):
of healing can be encompassed in theeffects of forest environ on human health.
There are real, interesting, promisingstudies that look at how to reduce blood
pressure, heart rates, stress,stress hormones, anxiety, depression, anger,
(27:45):
fatigue, and confusion with time innature and increase vigor and positive psychological
effects. Indeed, land medicine canbe a powerful tool in any practitioner's tools.
Back one hundred percent agree absolutely well, we have a minute or so
(28:07):
left, So any final thoughts thatyou have to lead with our listeners.
Well, for cancer survivors and allthose seeking wellness and wholeness, I would
say check in with your primary caredoctor at least Yearly, eat organic fresh
fruits and vegetables, fine plant proteins. Learn to enjoy sardines, as Andy
(28:30):
Wilde tells us, exercise daily andlove wholeheartily because you are indeed worth it.
Beautiful and Patricia, where can peoplefind you? Can you share a
website so people can learn about youand your work? Well, my medical
practice website is she dot dot com. That's s h d oc dot com.
(29:00):
Okay, perfect, Well, thankyou so much for spending some of
your valuable time with us this eveningand for sharing some of your healing work
in the world. And thank youfor what you do. And that wraps
up this episode of five to ThriveLive Again. I want to thank our
sponsors Cognizance Aticoline for memory, focusand attention, Immuse a post biotic for
(29:23):
immune support, Doctor Aheres Probiotics awardwinning pre and probiotic formulas and American Biosciences,
the makers of Metatrol and Empower theperfect combination for mitochondrial health, immune
support and maximized energy. And againfor free samples with a discount go to
(29:44):
the Harmony coompany dot com forward slashThrive and in the meantime, thank you
listener for joining us made you experiencejoy, laughter and love. It's time
to thrive out everyone. Good Night'sgonna be lots, gonna be LOTSCU baby
(30:07):
good good laugh, per say thestream that j the city is fun.
Love Astray, love in love,
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello, Welcome toThrall Live. I'm doctor Lisath Schuler and
(00:45):
I co host the show with mygood buddy and co author Carolyn Gazelle.
Can find some of our past showpodcasts on iHeartRadio, Spotify, Pandora,
you name it your favorite podcasts podcastoutlet. We'll have five Thrive Live well
tonight. I will be talking withdoctor Patricius Stantall Clark about Cherokee medicine.
(01:08):
Vicious Dan Taal Clark is a Sammiand Eastern Band Cherokee. After seventeen years
of training from seven Elders, shewas made a Di Dana Whiskey, which
is a Cherokee medicine healer. She'sgonna tell us more about that. She
received her bachelor's ethnobotany from UC Berkeley. She also has a medical degree from
(01:32):
University of Minnesota and did her familymedicine residency at Dartmouth. She was ordained
as a Protestant priest in nineteen eightyone. She's trained with Sophie Freud Loewenstein,
whose granddaughter of Sigmund Freud, inpsychoanalysis. She's served over forty nine
years with the United Nations, theWorld Health Organization, World Council of Churches,
(01:57):
and she's a fellow with the AmericanAcademy of Family Physicians, a founding
diplomat of the American Board of IntegrativeHolistic Medicine and the American Board of Integrative
Medicine. So before I introduce her, I'm going to thank our sponsors.
Without them, we would not behere. First, American Biosciences the makers
of metatrol, a fermented reeacher extractfor enhanced mitochondrial function. They also make
(02:23):
empower AHCC to supercharge your immune system, and you can get some free samples
look at research and all of thatis at a discount if you go to
Theharmonycompany dot com forward slash Thrive.We also think ammuse a unique patented post
biotic that gives the immune system akey advantage, and immuse is found in
(02:46):
many dietary supplements. You can learnmore at amusehealth dot com and Cognizance oft
cooline. Nature's a way of keepingthe brain going on all cylinders. So
if you'd like to enhance your brainfunction, memory, focus, and attention,
look for Cognizant on a dietary supplementlabel for brain health. You can
also go to cognizan dot com foror information and doctor our Heroes Probiotics,
(03:08):
a best selling progotic for over thirtyyears with twelve probiotic strains, shall stable
with that refereration due to their uniquethree year fermentation process, and you can
learn more at doctor Ohira probiotics dotcom. So with that, Doctor Clark,
welcome to five to Thrive Live.Hello, Hello, Hi, Well,
(03:29):
you have training in conventional extensive trainingin conventional medicines. You also have
trained as a psycho analyst. Youhave received training in Cherokee medicine healing,
and we're going to focus in facton the ladder today you're Cherokee medicine training.
But before we do that, howgiven all that training, how do
(03:51):
you when somebody asks what kind ofhealer are you? What do you say?
What a delightful question. My goodfriend Elizabeth Coogler Ross taught me a
healer is one who midwives the achievingof wholeness as a person. In becoming
whole again, one is healed.In so doing, I collaborate with persons
(04:16):
in the clinic, in community,and on the global stage to enable access
for all to the tools required forour own birthing and rebirthing into sustained wellness
and wholeness. For me, ithas been the honor of my life to
serve in this way. Mm hmm, beautiful, say the first part of
(04:42):
the first the quote again, ahealer is one who midwives the achieving of
wholeness as a person. Yeah,that's beautiful. I think there's that's We
could unpack that statement alone for thenext thirty minutes. Yeah, we rick
to move on, and because Ireally want to talk about the Cherokee healing
(05:03):
tradition, something the unspoken about onthe show. But first, just to
orient our listeners, where is theCherokee trick located? Well, the Cherokee
Nation's original home was in what iscalled Georgia. In eighteen twenty eight,
when gold was discovered in the region, Colonial settlers brought to Georgia America's first
(05:28):
gold rush. In eighteen thirty,Andrew Jackson signed the Indian Removal Act.
In an effort to remove Native Americansfrom the land rich in gold, the
United States government offered land west ofthe Mississippi River in exchange for the Cherokee
people's homeland. When this did notwork, five years later, General William
(05:50):
carrl seated most of the Cherokee lands, claiming a fraudulent Treaty of New Ekota,
which was never signed by our leaders. This led to what is now
referred to as the Trail of Tears. More than sixteen thousand Cherokees were gathered,
stripped of all their possessions, andwalked for six months twelve hundred miles
(06:14):
west to lands far far less desirable. More than four thousand Cherokees died sircumbing
to starvation, disease, exposure,and all inclusive exhaustion. Scholars have called
it ethnic cleansing by the United Statesgovernment. My people are the Eastern Bend
Cherokee Indians. Our ancestors are theones who escaped into the Appalachian Mountains during
(06:41):
the Trail of Tears and eventually becamea sovereign nation in eighteen eighty nine.
So our land is located in QualaTerritory in western North Carolina. Right so
there are related tribes, for example, in Texas, all of whom are
(07:02):
Cherokee in a sense, but they'rethey're sort of spread out throughout the southern
part of the United States for themost part. Yeah, yes, m
okay. So let's let's talk alittle bit about how medicine healers are chosen.
This is a very unique way oftraining healers, and the process really
(07:25):
is unique from the very gecko soap. Can you kind of describe to us
in brief how medicine healers are chosenin the Cherokee tradition. Sure, in
our way, one does not chooseto become a healer. The elders select
the ones to be trained. Theywatch for what they call wounded healer,
(07:47):
often a baby with a difficult birthor a physical deformity. Once trained,
this chosen one becomes a divanavisky,a Cherokee medicine person through communal ceremony.
Mm hmm. So this is somethingthat since it happens so early, children
(08:11):
are essentially anointed for lack of abetter word, as such, and probably
I would imagine from an early ageare treated differently because their destinies is before
them. I mean, does theirtraining start in childhood or how does their
training continue? Well, it mightbe better put that one is picked out
(08:35):
of the larger community to be observedto see if they would make a good
healer. So they're not really anoyedat birth, but they're followed for the
next six years of their life tosee if indeed they are an appropriate person
to learn our ways. Got itokay? And then what happened in the
(08:58):
training of an and I realized,first of all this question is not something
you can summarize in detail, butcan you give us just a sense of
how when somebody moves into the positionof being a Cherokee medicine healer, how
does their training occur? Well,So, as I said, the first
six years of life, the eldersobserve a candidate's character, and if she
(09:24):
displays the heart of a healer andis chosen, then she'll receive fifteen to
twenty years of full time training withseven different elders. I should note from
the time of the Religious Crimes Codeof eighteen eighty three, all Native American
medicine practices and ceremonies were banned inthe United States until the American Indian Religious
(09:52):
Freedom Act of nineteen seventy eight.During this time, native healers of whom
I have met, were put inprison, never to be seen again,
just for the learning or doing ofour medicine and ceremonies. This was an
aggressive government attempt of cultural genocide andled to the loss of much of our
(10:13):
ancestral wisdom. My training from nineteenfifty nine to nineteen seventy six was done
in secret for this reason. Andyet the traditions persisted, They were maintained.
Did they change before significantly before theban and prepared to actor? Do
(10:37):
you know, well? Our waysare in Turtle Island are over four hundred
thousand, excuse me, forty thousandyears, And so the body of knowledge
evolved over time, and it washanded down from traditional healer to traditional healer.
We actually learn in Cherokee, aspecial Cherokee meta language, so not
(11:01):
just anybody can learn our ways.So I wouldn't say that it's changed.
It evolved like anybody of knowledge.But what happened when we were put in
prison and and punished for learning anddoing our ways? Obviously the knowledge began
(11:22):
to disappear, and so there isa strong move to bring that knowledge back
because there's such a need. Socan you are you able to break down
Cherokee medicine training into like areas oftraining? I mean, how how is
(11:43):
what? What are you trained in? You know, like a typical as
as a medical doctor, you weretrained in the pathophysiology of disease. You
were trained in the use of varioustypically medications, but not only kind of
modalities to treat the disease, andthen trained in ways to monitor patient's response
(12:07):
to those medications. So that's howI would sort of briefly describe conventional training.
How would you describe Cherokee medicine ina similar way. Well, we
see ourselves as Cherokee medicine keepers incharge of the protection of plant medicine,
which is the mother of all life. Land medicine, which is the caretaking
(12:28):
of and living and balance with allrelations. Physical medicine which is bodywork,
osteopathy, thorn puncture, minor surgery, dermatology, and midwi free dream work
which is the interpretation of messages fromCreator on right, living Cherokee language which
(12:50):
includes our myths and cultural codes,laws of nature which some call laws of
science, and ceremonies, the dvisual and communal expression of walking in right
relationship with creator m hm. Soit's really more a very different philosophical approach
(13:13):
to health and healing. And somaybe we can talk about a few things
that come out of that tradition andthen we'll come back to you. Sort
of unique because you're unique in howyou integrate this. But let's just carry
on with this for a moment.So you mentioned plant medicine as being the
(13:33):
mother of all health, healing,et cetera. So what is plant medicine
and the Cherokee tradition? So wesee plant people as part of the larger
arena of relations and they have madea covenant to give us what we need
(13:56):
for healing. So all the plantpeople that live on planet Earth have a
place in our healing m hm.And by training from the knowledge passed on
(14:16):
from your trainers, your elders,et cetera, you learn indications for certain
plants, and then is their ceremonyaround how to utilize those plants. Oh,
another great question. So you're anherbalist, so you understand that it's
not one plant for one problem.It's a combination a remedy for an individual.
(14:43):
But the relationship with plant and theenergy of the plant is empowered according
to our way of doing medicine byhaving relationship with the seed, with the
seed of my ancestors. And soyes, many Turtle Island Native American peoples
(15:05):
from both both the United States andfrom Central and Latin America have rituals,
communal rituals that would come and makerelationship with seeds and uh and and pass
them down from from son to daughterto to to other Cherokee medicine people.
(15:31):
So it's a relationship. Mm hmmm. Yeah, this is just so different.
So how let me just want tobelabor this for a moment, because
so different. So when you areworking with somebody using your plant medicine,
what's the responsibility of the recipient?Do they too have to as part of
(15:54):
their healing involve creating their own relationshipto the plants or acknowledging that relationship or
you know, how does that work? Well, here's the art of being
a healer, isn't it. SoI have the plant medicines that I like
to use and I have had arelationship with over my seventy years, and
(16:18):
I think they're more powerful than somebodywho just buys it at the store.
But then individuals may have an illnessthat would be benefited by a combination of
plant people, and I would encouragethem to develop a relationship with those plants
(16:42):
as part of your healing work.Absolutely, Now, not all people,
as you say, this is abit different, and so when I work
with Native Americans, they're much moreopen to this and oftentimes have experienced it
in their lifetime or their family.But non Native people sometimes needs some time
(17:03):
to adjust to the idea of plantshaving energy to heal them. Mm hmm.
Right, Well, what about themedicine wiel. This is sort of
the symbol that's become popularized as representingindigenous healing, and there's definitely a Cherokee
(17:26):
medicine wheel. Can you just describewhat that is? Well, the medicine
wheel is not a Cherokee term,but it's also called the sacred circle to
many Native people. It represents thenatural cycles of life and the basic way
in which the natural world, includinghumans, moves and evolves. It represents
(17:49):
the power of birth, death,and then rebirth into a stronger, more
energized life. For example, fromNative garden is the drought tolerant Echinasia cone
flower. After flowering for a longseason, this Queen of the Daisies dies,
(18:11):
only to come back next season stronger, more resilient, and infinitely elegant,
beautiful. So cycle birth and birth, etc. Okay, so you
know you are ordained as a Protestantpriest, and I would imagine that tradition
(18:33):
is quite different in many ways thanthe tradition of the Cherokee, and really,
in fact both of those being differentthan conventional medicine. So how do
you integrate all of that into yourhealing work. You might be surprised how
many Native Americans really feel comfortable inthe Christian tradition. As one of our
(18:56):
elders in the eighteen hundred said,there's nothing in that Bible that is incongruent
with our way of living. Soas a Cherokee medicine healer, it's my
duty to show others how to weavetheir spiritual world into a tapestry of balance
with their natural world throughout the journeyof their life, each step of the
(19:19):
way, listening to their ancestors andmaking decisions that result in a sustainable world
seven generations into the future. Tous, healing is not always curing.
It is a living in harmony withinourselves. And with all relations. We
call it the Red Road, adeep commitment to living life in a good
(19:42):
way with an intrinsic respect for others, oneself, and creation, enabled by
a dedication to walk the road asCreator teaches. In this way, we
are healed from disase. All peoplesare spiritual at their core. This is
(20:03):
a critical component of my work withpatients. M hm. Yes, So
I would say that definitely is anice there's a nice synergy between the Protestant
path or belief system and the Cherokeetradition conventionalism. I'm not sure conventional medicine
(20:25):
really takes on spirituality in that way, do you think. Well, that's
why I'm an integrated medicine practitioner.And although in our field it is we
call it body mind soul, youand I are teaching people more about the
(20:45):
soul m m yeah, right,which is I would say, really at
the heart or at the core ofhealing, even if people don't know it
as such. There's just you know, for true deep healing to happen,
it has to happen on more thana physical level in really almost every case.
(21:07):
So I think that you know thesesystems, these traditions and cultures have
codified in many ways a process thatcan get us their facilitate a deep healing
which is important and beautiful, doyou you know? And that kind of
speaks to the perspective of chercuments inwhich which you've talked about as being an
(21:27):
ecology of healing, and can youdescribe that a little bit, I'll try
so. Eco healing focuses on thesignificant role nature plays and the promotion,
the promotion and the maintenance of people'shealth and the health of the social system
in which we live. Indigenous peoplesbelieve we have a duty in protecting the
(21:52):
plant's diversity. It is our sophisticatedknowledge of the natural world that enables land
in incluting forests and biodiversity to flourish. Traditional indigenous knowledge has helped communities sustainably
manage territories and natural resources, frompredicting natural disasters to protecting biologically critical areas,
(22:18):
as well as identifying medicinal plants.For example, Indigenous forestry plays a
critical role in reducing global warming byrestoring biodiversity and health to these ecosystems,
including the management of culturally significant plants, animals, and fungi that contribute to
(22:40):
healthier soil. Our knowledge is basedon millennia of observations and a holistic kinship
based relationship with all of life.We understand the powerful medicine land offers for
healing ourselves. Land encompasses all lifeforms in spaces, all our living relatives
four legged, two legged, wingedones, swimmers, crawlers, plant and
(23:04):
rock people. Our regenitive relationships withland are based on generations of deep interconnectedness
that we Native people have been taught. Through our theologies, ceremonies, and
languages, and caring for the land, we are able to listen to Creator's
(23:25):
way of living. Land energy healsour body, mind and soul. The
idea of owning land is foreign tonational to Native people. Do we own
God? Land is our mother.Land is capable of sensing and feeling,
responsive to the sensations of seeing,hearing, feeling, tasting, and smelling.
(23:51):
Land holds the essence of healing energy. When land senses are disease,
she provides the healing in n energywe need. Our very bodies are made
up of waters and oxygen of land. We are land. We are the
green things that grow. If allof those were taken from Earth, there
(24:14):
would be no life. If allthe four legged creatures were taken from Earth,
there would be no life. Ifall the winged creatures were taken from
Earth, there could be no life. If all our relatives who crawl and
swim and live within the earth weretaken away, there could be no life.
If land were to die, therewould be no life. But if
(24:34):
all human beings were taken away,life on Earth would flourish. This is
what our grandmothers teach us as children. H Yeah, beautiful. I mean
that interconnectedness, the interdependency, theecology is really the right word, is
(24:56):
so important because the perspective that itprovides whatever we're contending with on a health
or illness level and really brings itout to such a perspective, how is
the health of the planet affecting?How am I taking on the health of
the planet. How is my conditionreflective what's going on in the other beings
(25:22):
around me? And I think withthat perspective, you know there's an opportunity
to bring about, if not greaterhealing, at least greater insight into the
condition and healing, which has itsown value. I mean, when you're
working with people, especially given yourcycle, your background and psychoanalysis. Do
you find yourself ever working on justthe physical body? Oh? Yes,
(25:49):
it's so intertwined, right, it'snot divided in these categories of mind,
body spirit. When you have aperson in front of you tilling their story
and sharing what they're concerned about,you know, it slips into body,
mind, soul. So for mehaving done this for what nearly fifty years,
(26:14):
it's all kind of one presentation andone tapestry of healing modalities. Yeah,
yeah, for sure. So Iguess you know, I'd like to
ask, I think you've described landmedicine. Do you have anything you'd like
to share about how you prescribe landmedicine. This is I literally take a
(26:41):
paper and write down time with nature. You know, humans have enjoyed forests,
prairie, desert, water environments forages because it's so beautiful. But
interestingly, in Japan, since twothousand and four, a series of studies
(27:02):
have been conducted to investigate the effectsof forest environment on human health. A
whole new science has emerged called forestmedicine and an innovative interdisciplinary science expanding our
knowledge of integrative medicine, environmental medicine, preventive medicine, even theology and methods
(27:22):
of healing can be encompassed in theeffects of forest environ on human health.
There are real, interesting, promisingstudies that look at how to reduce blood
pressure, heart rates, stress,stress hormones, anxiety, depression, anger,
(27:45):
fatigue, and confusion with time innature and increase vigor and positive psychological
effects. Indeed, land medicine canbe a powerful tool in any practitioner's tools.
Back one hundred percent agree absolutely well, we have a minute or so
(28:07):
left, So any final thoughts thatyou have to lead with our listeners.
Well, for cancer survivors and allthose seeking wellness and wholeness, I would
say check in with your primary caredoctor at least Yearly, eat organic fresh
fruits and vegetables, fine plant proteins. Learn to enjoy sardines, as Andy
(28:30):
Wilde tells us, exercise daily andlove wholeheartily because you are indeed worth it.
Beautiful and Patricia, where can peoplefind you? Can you share a
website so people can learn about youand your work? Well, my medical
practice website is she dot dot com. That's s h d oc dot com.
(29:00):
Okay, perfect, Well, thankyou so much for spending some of
your valuable time with us this eveningand for sharing some of your healing work
in the world. And thank youfor what you do. And that wraps
up this episode of five to ThriveLive Again. I want to thank our
sponsors Cognizance Aticoline for memory, focusand attention, Immuse a post biotic for
(29:23):
immune support, Doctor Aheres Probiotics awardwinning pre and probiotic formulas and American Biosciences,
the makers of Metatrol and Empower theperfect combination for mitochondrial health, immune
support and maximized energy. And againfor free samples with a discount go to
(29:44):
the Harmony coompany dot com forward slashThrive and in the meantime, thank you
listener for joining us made you experiencejoy, laughter and love. It's time
to thrive out everyone. Good Night'sgonna be lots, gonna be LOTSCU baby
(30:07):
good good laugh, per say thestream that j the city is fun.
Love Astray, love in love,
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