October 28, 2025 • 27 mins
Karolyn and Lise have embraced and discussed naturopathic medicine for decades, however, they continue to be surprised by the misconceptions that many people have about it. If you are confused and need clarification or if you want to help educate others about the value of naturopathic medicine, be sure to tune in. Lise is a highly respected naturopathic medicine expert and on this show she also discusses her new role as President of Sonoran University, a respected naturopathic medical school.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hello everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyne Gazella and I'm here with my co host and
good friend, doctor Lise Alschuler. Hello, Lise, how are you.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I'm great, I'm here talking with you. We're going to
talk about one of my favorite topics tonight, which is,
you know, near and dear to me nature pathic medicine.
So I'm excited. How are you? I'm great too, and
I love this topic too.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You know, I have been in this industry since nineteen
ninety two, and the first couple of doctors I met
when I was doing research about natural medicine were naturopathic physicians.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So I am just.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So thrilled to be even though I'm not a naturopathic doctor,
I'm so thrilled to be a part of the naturopathic
medical community since the nineties.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So yeah, it's great. Yeah, Well, I think you know
you're like, you're not you're not a doctor. You sort
of play one on the radio, right, I tell people.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But you know what, Before we dig in, I am
going to thank our sponsors, because we love our sponsors.
They've been with us forever. I'd like to start with Cetria,
a patented form of glutathione clinically proven to raise blood
gudothione levels. Gudathione is the master antioxidant and the body's
primary defense against free radicals. It also helps support respiratory health.
(02:16):
For more information, visits Cetriagodothione dot com. Also cognizance citicoline,
which is nature's way of keeping the brain's energy producing
centers firing on all cylinders. If you're looking for a
way to enhance your brain function, including memory, focus, and attention,
look for cognizant excuse me cognizant on the label or
go to cognizant dot com for more information. Prothriver's Wellness
(02:39):
Brain is a product that contains cognizant as well as
other brain supporting nutrients and herbs. You can find Prothrivers
Wellness Brain online at pure Formulas dot com. There's also
Prothrivers Wellness Sleep, which combines higher dose melatonin and other
sleep supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers. You can
find pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep also at Pure Formulas dot
(03:02):
com and doctor ohira is Probiotics. It's a best selling
probiotic for more than thirty years, and it contains twelve
programmic strains that are shelf stable so no refrigeration is
required because of a unique three year fermentation process. It's
a very effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira Probiotics
dot com. Okay, Lise, now, I wanted to talk about
(03:26):
natropathic medicine because even though we've been covering this for
a lot of years, there are still a few important
misconceptions that I'd like to clear up. And you obviously
are the perfect person to discuss this topic. You're a
highly respected naturopathic physician trained in oncology, you teach other
(03:48):
doctors about medicine, and now you're the president of Sonora
and University, which is a leading naturopathic medical school. So
you are perfect. So I'm going to be interviewing you.
Do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well? I love that you say I'm perfect. I'll just
keep that.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay, Well, let's get started now. My first question may
not be a true misconception, but it is confusing. So,
as I mentioned, I've been doing this for a lot
of years, and I have never come across the term
napra path nap r a pat until I moved to
(04:27):
Santa Fe, New Mexico, about six years ago. So what
is a napra path, How does that differ from a
naturopathic doctor?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And why did it take me so long to hear
about them? So I had never heard of a naprapath
until I moved to Illinois, to Chicago specifically because the
only I believe still the only school of nepropathy is
in Illinois, and it's actually quite different. It's only really
similar in terms of the a kind of But a
(05:02):
napopath is somebody who in a holistic way addresses muscular
skeletal issues and how muscular skeletal issues connect to whole health.
So it's not a chiropractic physician, but it's more similar
I think, to chiropractic than it is to naturopathic except
in name. And there's not very many napopaths. I believe
(05:25):
they do have regulation in Illinois because they're a very
old profession there, but they're really very far and few
between otherwise. In contrast, naturopathic medicine is a very old
tradition of medicine. Some would argue it precedes allopathic or
what we call conventional medicine, because it really emerged from
(05:51):
a combination of European herbalism, indigenous healing, some knowledge from
our Aveda, and traditional Asian medicine kind of combined all
of that and was really in some ways the predominant
form of medicine before conventional medical schools were established. Back
(06:12):
in that time, it was known as eclectic medicine or physiomedicalism,
and it started to evolve. And then as conventional medical
schools were established, which really focused on treating people using drugs,
is what kind of the distinguishing feature of allopathic medicine
back in the day, and so what was then the
(06:36):
sort of eclectics and medicalists stayed more on the natural
side of things, and over time it evolved into nature
pathic medicine. Today, modern nature pathic medicine is a profession
in and of itself and somewhat similar to conventional medicine.
In the education, especially the first two years, so students
(06:59):
have to do their pre med courses have a bachelor's degree.
Then they enter into naturopathic medical school, which is a
graduate program, a four year program, and there are about
six schools that offer naturopathic medical training in North America.
And the training in the first two years very similar
(07:20):
to that of conventional medicine. The students are learning how
the body works, essentially biochemistry, organic chemistry, physiology. They take labs,
you know, just kind of all anatomy, all the things
that they need to know about a human body, and
they start to learn the philosophy of nature pathic medicine,
which I'll talk about more in a moment. And then
(07:42):
their second two years is really where nature pathic medicine
training starts to differ from conventional medical training because as
conventional medical students are going into their internships and rotating
in hospitals, typically the matropathic medical students are learning how
to apply They're starting to learn about disease, you know,
(08:04):
same sort of understanding in terms of what diseases are,
how to diagnose them, but the treatments that nature pathic
students learn is very different. So we learn about how
to use the healing power of nature to stimulate the
innate healing capacity that we believe exists in every person,
and we try to find the least invasive, most natural
(08:25):
ways possible to stimulate that healing potential within each person.
And we finish our school, then there are residencies available
for some of our graduates. We don't have required residencies
because unlike conventional medical students that have to go through
residency to get licensed, those residencies are funded essentially by Medicare,
(08:50):
and Nature Pathic Medicine doesn't have access to Medicare funding
yet because we're not licensed in every state and so
Medicare covers all states, so therefore we can't access Medicare funding,
so we can't require residencies. But we do have privately
funded residencies available for about half of our graduates. The
other half either go into their own practice, join a practice,
(09:12):
and of course before they can practice, they have to
sit for a three day licensing examination to make sure
that they're safe and competent, and then they can go
out and practice and do their wonderful work in the world.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, that was a great overview at least, thank you.
So what are some of the misconceptions regarding training and
licensure because it seems like when I'm talking to people,
they don't understand the educational component. What are some of
the misconceptions regarding education and licensure.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Well, you know, I think, as I just described, the
education of a nature pathic doctor is quite rigorous, and
you know, there's lots of similarities between conventional medical school
and nature pathic medical school. For example, at Sonoran University,
round the President, our students get very nervous at several
time points in our education when they're kind of entering
(10:10):
into very universal between naturopathic and conventional medical school kind
of exams. For example, we have these standardized patient exams
called osci's where actors play patients and students have to
demonstrate their skills. They have to take one part of
their licensing exam during their education. So there's a lot
(10:31):
of rigor in nature pathic medicine. And then of course
once they finish, they have to complete over four thousand
hours of training seeing patients. They have a minimum number
of patient contacts they have to have, which are of
course supervised patient contacts. But you know, there's a lot
of education that goes into a training that goes into
(10:53):
being a nachopathic doctor. And even though the therapies that
we use are extensively less injurious than those that a
conventional doctor uses. We're still dealing with sick and ill individuals,
so it's very important that we have very well trained,
astute individuals who know how to diagnose disease and who
(11:16):
know when it's appropriate to recommend diet versus sending a
patient to a surgeon, for example. So that requires a
lot of training, and you know, I think that one
of the things that gets confusing too is that there
this is our origins come from herbal medicine and nutrition
and things that a lot of people have access to.
(11:38):
So there are also a group of people that are
called lay in nahe paths. These are individuals that are
self taught or may have done an online kind of
correspondence type of education, and they might in fact provide
some recommendations to people that's all finding good. Those individuals
are not natropathic doctors or nature pathic physicians. To be
(12:01):
a natropathic doctor, you have to go through this federally
recognized and accredited programmatically regionally accredited school or program for
nature pathic medicine. And that's really just sort of level up,
if you will, yeah doing things yeah, and that you
hit the nail rate on the head.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And that's what I was looking for because the biggest
misconception is that the training, the education is not as rigorous,
but it is quite similar and it's very different than
somebody who gets a naturopathic certification online, very very different.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
So thank you for clearing fighting that.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So when I talk to people about naturopathic medicine, sometimes
they say, well, there's not really any research that really
substantiates this form of medicine. Of course, you and I
know that that's a huge misconception, So tell us more
about the science behind naturopathic medicine.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
So the science has evolved so much, you know, I
think that they're First of all, there's a lot of
science about or on many of what we call modalities
that we use. So in nhepathic doctor is trained to
use diet and nutrition, botanical medicine, dietary supplements, can use
various physical therapy or manual medicine techniques, hydro therapy, you know,
(13:20):
all these different things. Each of those modalities has a
growing body of research that has helped us understand more
about how they work, who they work best for, when
they work, how to use all of these therapies in
a more sophisticated, individualized way. So there's most certainly a
(13:41):
very large body of evidence for the therapies that nature
pathic doctors use, and really a lot of that evidence
is or the research is coming from the nage pathic schools,
it's coming from niche pathic like training programs globally, it's
coming from academic center across the world. So it's coming
(14:01):
from a lot of different sources. And so we're so
what I like to say about nature pathic doctors is
that we apply evidence based natural medicine or evidence informed
natural medicine. And that's very important because you know, when
we're even though there's a sort of misconception that, oh,
(14:21):
you know, because it's natural, it's automatically safe, and that's
actually not the case. Anything can be toxic, of course
in high amounts, even water. But the idea is that
because something's natural in and of itself doesn't mean that
it's inherently safe. Number One, it needs to be used
(14:42):
in the right dose at the right time. Number two,
it has to be used in the right person. So
a natural therapy used in somebody that really needs a
different kind of therapy becomes an unsafe therapy. And number three,
there are some natural therapies that do in fact have
adverse toxicities or interact with other things. So these are
(15:04):
all the kind of things that naturopathic doctors have to learn.
So we have to be evidence based in how we
apply our therapies.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, that's why the training is so important, and I
would agree with you on the research I've of course,
I've been covering naturopathic medicine for decades and I've seen
that research increase dramatically over the years. So I like
to let people know that this is very much science based.
But I like your term evidence informed, which is what
(15:31):
naturopathic medicine is all about. I want to switch gears
a little bit. As I mentioned in the beginning of
this podcast, that you have a new role. You are
the president of Sonoran University in Arizona. It's considered a
leader when it comes to training future nauropathic doctors. So
(15:53):
tell us a little bit about Sonoran, but mostly I
want to hear from you what excites you most about
this new position of yours.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Well, thank you for asking. I'm very happy to answer
this question. So Sonorn University of Health Sciences is in Tempe, Arizona,
and you know we've been around since nineteen ninety two.
We offer a nachepathic medical program. We also offer a
master's program Masters of Science and Nutrition, and a Master's
(16:22):
of Science in Mental health. And we have several certificate
programs as well in areas related to those degrees. And
it's a vibrant community. And what I love most about
Snorn University, well, let me actually back up and say
that we have about five hundred students, six almost six
(16:44):
hundred students. We have a campus in Tempee that's quite beautiful.
We have a medical center there, so we offer nature
pathic care there. We have a research institute, the Rick
Scozel Research Institute, where we do botanical analysis. And so
there's a lot going on at the university. And what
(17:06):
I love about the community of our learners is that
these are individuals that are very committed to dedicating themselves
to understanding and applying the healing power of nature. And
we have some values at Sonoran and there are things
like we love, we achieve excellence, we are resilient. These
(17:27):
are the kind of values that we don't just have
them on the wall, We actually live these values and
it's a remarkable community. I've worked in many places that
are amazing communities, but I have to say Sonorin is
quite unique. Every staff member that I've interacted with, every employee,
every student, has this sort of shine to them when
(17:49):
I ask them about why they're here, and invariably they'll
answer with, well, I'm here because I want to be
a part of the healthcare solution for tomorrow. I love,
like an employee will say, I love that we are
helping to graduate amazing natropathic doctors, nutritionists, mental health counselors.
I love that I play a role in that the
(18:11):
students are just amazing. Some of these students have known
they've wanted to be a nature bathic doctor, for example,
since they were in high school. Like these are full
on committed individuals who are very committed to the health
of the human community. So for me, those are all
things that resonate deeply with me. So I find this
to be just such an exciting, exhilarating, really opportunity. It's
(18:35):
a big job, lots of challenges every day. I never
have I have not had one moment of boredom. But
I am just so excited and so grateful every day
to be a part of this, I really am. Yeah,
and I've known you now for over thirty years.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You are a big thinker, you think big, you do
big things. So what does the future, what would you
like to see happen for naturopathic medicine in the future.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
For Sonorian universities specifically, I feel like Sonoran will be
the global epicenter for natural healthcare. And there's lots of
ways in which we are going to become that, but
it's really through our dedication to the healing power of
nature into augmenting that through our academic offerings, are clinical offerings,
(19:29):
and our research offerings. So that is well underway at
Sonoran University and very excited to be leaving that effort.
Nature pathic medicine in general, I feel like the profession
itself is on the cusp of a big thing. So
right now, twenty six states and jurisdictions in the United
States license or regulate nature pathic medicine, so just over half.
(19:52):
So our next big hurdle as a profession is we
have to get universally licensed and regulated, because then we
have a access to all sorts of federal programs, the
access to people or people's ability to access our care
expands enormously when that happens. So that's a big next step,
and I think that we have you know, the profession
(20:14):
has a lot of efforts that we're putting forward to
make that happen on a state level, and the momentum
is there. I think globally, there's tremendous amount happening globally
with natural medicine and sort of different countries' versions of
nature pathic medicine, and were we in the US are
starting to connect ourselves more and more with our global
(20:36):
brothers and sisters, and so that there's really a community
of nature pathic medicine which is starting to coalesce and
to really preserve the important contribution that natural medicine has
to the health of humanity. And here's where I think
it's very important for people to kind of think about.
(20:57):
There is this thing we call convention medicine, which is amazing.
I mean, if I was in an accident, the hospital's
where I would want to go. And you know, we
talk a lot about people with cancer and we are
advocates for getting good conventional treatment. So there's absolutely a
critical role that conventional medicine has. But convention the system
(21:19):
of conventional healthcare is not sustainable. It's exorbitantly expensive. Physicians
are burning out, nurses are burning out, the experience for
the patient is getting worse and worse. That the whole
system is kind of imploding. And so in a way,
the fact that nature pathic medicine has been on the
(21:41):
outside of that imploding or sinking ship is actually, I think,
kind of a good thing, because we now what we
have to do is we have to continue to grow
so that we're ready to take all the people that
are looking for health and as they're jumping off that
sinking ship, we're ready to greet them and greet them
(22:01):
with health and wellness. So I think that, you know,
what we are doing is emerging in a very important
way alongside the conventional system that is going to have
to do some major rework in order to even survive.
And so there's kind of this interesting pattern of a
little bit of destruction happening on one side, growth happening
(22:24):
on the other side, and then together I think those
processes we will get to a place I hope where
maybe not my generation, but maybe in the next generation,
somebody who's sick or who's ill can actually have the
option to seek sort of care and support along this
continuum of care, and so that our part of the
(22:45):
continuum is they're kind of and we're building it stronger. Yeah,
it seems like there's an opening and there's an opportunity
for nantropathic medicine. Okay, so one last question. We only
have a couple of minutes left. If there is someone
listening who is on the fence and thinking about seeing
a naturopathic physician, what one minute final advice do you
(23:09):
have for that listener. You know, one thing I like
to say is that nature pathic doctors and I just
want to say, you know, other practitioners of holistic and
natural medicine, like the nutritionials that you're training, the mental
health counselors that you train, it snort, all of these
people have the idea that I want to find what
(23:31):
is working well in you and support that. I want
to build your wellness, I want to build your health.
That's a very different orientation than a conventional practitioner's going
to say, I want to find what the disease is
in you and eradicate that both things are important. And
you know, nature pathic doctors, for example, can certainly help
(23:53):
to eradicate certain diseases, no doubt we were very good
at that, in fact better than conventional medicine in certain arenas.
But I think what's really different about an hpathic medicine
orientation is that in the process of disease eradication, we
are all about finding out what's working well and building
that so rejuvenating health in an individual, and that is something.
(24:16):
If that appeals to you, that's what I would say,
you need to see an hpathic doctor. Yeah, I would agree.
I think that is the key difference.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And this has been an amazing show at least Where
can people find out more about sonorin?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
What's the website? Yeah, I'm going to give a couple websites.
So if you want to learn about Sonorin, it's sonorin
so nor a n dot edu. And if you want
to find out about hpathic medicine you want to find
an hpathic doctor near to you, you can go to
the National Association's website, which is Naturopathic dot org and
(24:56):
you can find a directory there. And then most states
also have a state Association of nature Pathic Medicine, So
those would be some good places to head. There's one
other place if you're listening, you're interested maybe in exploring
this as a career, you can certainly come to serve website.
You can also go to aa NMC dot org, which
is an organization that represents all of the nichepathic programs.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes, and on the consumer side for just general information.
Naturemed dot org is an organization, the Institute for Natural
Medicine that I write for. That's a great website as well,
so some great resources there. Well, at least this has
been a wonderful show. Thank you so much for helping
(25:41):
to clear up some of the misconceptions about naturopathic medicine,
a form of medicine that you and I both love.
And now I'd like to once again thank our sponsors.
First pro Thrivers, well Innes Sleep formula, Cetria Glutathione the
superior glutathione to support liver and immune health, Cognizance to
Colling to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor
(26:03):
or here is award winning shelf stable probiotic. And thanks again.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
To you Lease for your wonderful insights. Well, thank you, Carolyn.
I just want to point out that you were given
the what was the award called, that you were given
for the Champion awork. Yes, you were given a Champion
Award from the American Association of nature Pathic Doctors for
your consistent championing of nature pathic medicine and natural healthcare.
(26:32):
So thank you as well. Well, you're welcome, all right,
take us home? Lease all right? Well, I hope you
all enjoy your night. It's time to thrive. Have a
beautiful night.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Everyone, Have a good night.
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hello everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyne Gazella and I'm here with my co host and
good friend, doctor Lise Alschuler. Hello, Lise, how are you.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I'm great, I'm here talking with you. We're going to
talk about one of my favorite topics tonight, which is,
you know, near and dear to me nature pathic medicine.
So I'm excited. How are you? I'm great too, and
I love this topic too.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You know, I have been in this industry since nineteen
ninety two, and the first couple of doctors I met
when I was doing research about natural medicine were naturopathic physicians.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So I am just.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So thrilled to be even though I'm not a naturopathic doctor,
I'm so thrilled to be a part of the naturopathic
medical community since the nineties.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So yeah, it's great. Yeah, Well, I think you know
you're like, you're not you're not a doctor. You sort
of play one on the radio, right, I tell people.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But you know what, Before we dig in, I am
going to thank our sponsors, because we love our sponsors.
They've been with us forever. I'd like to start with Cetria,
a patented form of glutathione clinically proven to raise blood
gudothione levels. Gudathione is the master antioxidant and the body's
primary defense against free radicals. It also helps support respiratory health.
(02:16):
For more information, visits Cetriagodothione dot com. Also cognizance citicoline,
which is nature's way of keeping the brain's energy producing
centers firing on all cylinders. If you're looking for a
way to enhance your brain function, including memory, focus, and attention,
look for cognizant excuse me cognizant on the label or
go to cognizant dot com for more information. Prothriver's Wellness
(02:39):
Brain is a product that contains cognizant as well as
other brain supporting nutrients and herbs. You can find Prothrivers
Wellness Brain online at pure Formulas dot com. There's also
Prothrivers Wellness Sleep, which combines higher dose melatonin and other
sleep supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers. You can
find pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep also at Pure Formulas dot
(03:02):
com and doctor ohira is Probiotics. It's a best selling
probiotic for more than thirty years, and it contains twelve
programmic strains that are shelf stable so no refrigeration is
required because of a unique three year fermentation process. It's
a very effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira Probiotics
dot com. Okay, Lise, now, I wanted to talk about
(03:26):
natropathic medicine because even though we've been covering this for
a lot of years, there are still a few important
misconceptions that I'd like to clear up. And you obviously
are the perfect person to discuss this topic. You're a
highly respected naturopathic physician trained in oncology, you teach other
(03:48):
doctors about medicine, and now you're the president of Sonora
and University, which is a leading naturopathic medical school. So
you are perfect. So I'm going to be interviewing you.
Do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well? I love that you say I'm perfect. I'll just
keep that.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay, Well, let's get started now. My first question may
not be a true misconception, but it is confusing. So,
as I mentioned, I've been doing this for a lot
of years, and I have never come across the term
napra path nap r a pat until I moved to
(04:27):
Santa Fe, New Mexico, about six years ago. So what
is a napra path, How does that differ from a
naturopathic doctor?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And why did it take me so long to hear
about them? So I had never heard of a naprapath
until I moved to Illinois, to Chicago specifically because the
only I believe still the only school of nepropathy is
in Illinois, and it's actually quite different. It's only really
similar in terms of the a kind of But a
(05:02):
napopath is somebody who in a holistic way addresses muscular
skeletal issues and how muscular skeletal issues connect to whole health.
So it's not a chiropractic physician, but it's more similar
I think, to chiropractic than it is to naturopathic except
in name. And there's not very many napopaths. I believe
(05:25):
they do have regulation in Illinois because they're a very
old profession there, but they're really very far and few
between otherwise. In contrast, naturopathic medicine is a very old
tradition of medicine. Some would argue it precedes allopathic or
what we call conventional medicine, because it really emerged from
(05:51):
a combination of European herbalism, indigenous healing, some knowledge from
our Aveda, and traditional Asian medicine kind of combined all
of that and was really in some ways the predominant
form of medicine before conventional medical schools were established. Back
(06:12):
in that time, it was known as eclectic medicine or physiomedicalism,
and it started to evolve. And then as conventional medical
schools were established, which really focused on treating people using drugs,
is what kind of the distinguishing feature of allopathic medicine
back in the day, and so what was then the
(06:36):
sort of eclectics and medicalists stayed more on the natural
side of things, and over time it evolved into nature
pathic medicine. Today, modern nature pathic medicine is a profession
in and of itself and somewhat similar to conventional medicine.
In the education, especially the first two years, so students
(06:59):
have to do their pre med courses have a bachelor's degree.
Then they enter into naturopathic medical school, which is a
graduate program, a four year program, and there are about
six schools that offer naturopathic medical training in North America.
And the training in the first two years very similar
(07:20):
to that of conventional medicine. The students are learning how
the body works, essentially biochemistry, organic chemistry, physiology. They take labs,
you know, just kind of all anatomy, all the things
that they need to know about a human body, and
they start to learn the philosophy of nature pathic medicine,
which I'll talk about more in a moment. And then
(07:42):
their second two years is really where nature pathic medicine
training starts to differ from conventional medical training because as
conventional medical students are going into their internships and rotating
in hospitals, typically the matropathic medical students are learning how
to apply They're starting to learn about disease, you know,
(08:04):
same sort of understanding in terms of what diseases are,
how to diagnose them, but the treatments that nature pathic
students learn is very different. So we learn about how
to use the healing power of nature to stimulate the
innate healing capacity that we believe exists in every person,
and we try to find the least invasive, most natural
(08:25):
ways possible to stimulate that healing potential within each person.
And we finish our school, then there are residencies available
for some of our graduates. We don't have required residencies
because unlike conventional medical students that have to go through
residency to get licensed, those residencies are funded essentially by Medicare,
(08:50):
and Nature Pathic Medicine doesn't have access to Medicare funding
yet because we're not licensed in every state and so
Medicare covers all states, so therefore we can't access Medicare funding,
so we can't require residencies. But we do have privately
funded residencies available for about half of our graduates. The
other half either go into their own practice, join a practice,
(09:12):
and of course before they can practice, they have to
sit for a three day licensing examination to make sure
that they're safe and competent, and then they can go
out and practice and do their wonderful work in the world.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, that was a great overview at least, thank you.
So what are some of the misconceptions regarding training and
licensure because it seems like when I'm talking to people,
they don't understand the educational component. What are some of
the misconceptions regarding education and licensure.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Well, you know, I think, as I just described, the
education of a nature pathic doctor is quite rigorous, and
you know, there's lots of similarities between conventional medical school
and nature pathic medical school. For example, at Sonoran University,
round the President, our students get very nervous at several
time points in our education when they're kind of entering
(10:10):
into very universal between naturopathic and conventional medical school kind
of exams. For example, we have these standardized patient exams
called osci's where actors play patients and students have to
demonstrate their skills. They have to take one part of
their licensing exam during their education. So there's a lot
(10:31):
of rigor in nature pathic medicine. And then of course
once they finish, they have to complete over four thousand
hours of training seeing patients. They have a minimum number
of patient contacts they have to have, which are of
course supervised patient contacts. But you know, there's a lot
of education that goes into a training that goes into
(10:53):
being a nachopathic doctor. And even though the therapies that
we use are extensively less injurious than those that a
conventional doctor uses. We're still dealing with sick and ill individuals,
so it's very important that we have very well trained,
astute individuals who know how to diagnose disease and who
(11:16):
know when it's appropriate to recommend diet versus sending a
patient to a surgeon, for example. So that requires a
lot of training, and you know, I think that one
of the things that gets confusing too is that there
this is our origins come from herbal medicine and nutrition
and things that a lot of people have access to.
(11:38):
So there are also a group of people that are
called lay in nahe paths. These are individuals that are
self taught or may have done an online kind of
correspondence type of education, and they might in fact provide
some recommendations to people that's all finding good. Those individuals
are not natropathic doctors or nature pathic physicians. To be
(12:01):
a natropathic doctor, you have to go through this federally
recognized and accredited programmatically regionally accredited school or program for
nature pathic medicine. And that's really just sort of level up,
if you will, yeah doing things yeah, and that you
hit the nail rate on the head.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And that's what I was looking for because the biggest
misconception is that the training, the education is not as rigorous,
but it is quite similar and it's very different than
somebody who gets a naturopathic certification online, very very different.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
So thank you for clearing fighting that.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So when I talk to people about naturopathic medicine, sometimes
they say, well, there's not really any research that really
substantiates this form of medicine. Of course, you and I
know that that's a huge misconception, So tell us more
about the science behind naturopathic medicine.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
So the science has evolved so much, you know, I
think that they're First of all, there's a lot of
science about or on many of what we call modalities
that we use. So in nhepathic doctor is trained to
use diet and nutrition, botanical medicine, dietary supplements, can use
various physical therapy or manual medicine techniques, hydro therapy, you know,
(13:20):
all these different things. Each of those modalities has a
growing body of research that has helped us understand more
about how they work, who they work best for, when
they work, how to use all of these therapies in
a more sophisticated, individualized way. So there's most certainly a
(13:41):
very large body of evidence for the therapies that nature
pathic doctors use, and really a lot of that evidence
is or the research is coming from the nage pathic schools,
it's coming from niche pathic like training programs globally, it's
coming from academic center across the world. So it's coming
(14:01):
from a lot of different sources. And so we're so
what I like to say about nature pathic doctors is
that we apply evidence based natural medicine or evidence informed
natural medicine. And that's very important because you know, when
we're even though there's a sort of misconception that, oh,
(14:21):
you know, because it's natural, it's automatically safe, and that's
actually not the case. Anything can be toxic, of course
in high amounts, even water. But the idea is that
because something's natural in and of itself doesn't mean that
it's inherently safe. Number One, it needs to be used
(14:42):
in the right dose at the right time. Number two,
it has to be used in the right person. So
a natural therapy used in somebody that really needs a
different kind of therapy becomes an unsafe therapy. And number three,
there are some natural therapies that do in fact have
adverse toxicities or interact with other things. So these are
(15:04):
all the kind of things that naturopathic doctors have to learn.
So we have to be evidence based in how we
apply our therapies.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, that's why the training is so important, and I
would agree with you on the research I've of course,
I've been covering naturopathic medicine for decades and I've seen
that research increase dramatically over the years. So I like
to let people know that this is very much science based.
But I like your term evidence informed, which is what
(15:31):
naturopathic medicine is all about. I want to switch gears
a little bit. As I mentioned in the beginning of
this podcast, that you have a new role. You are
the president of Sonoran University in Arizona. It's considered a
leader when it comes to training future nauropathic doctors. So
(15:53):
tell us a little bit about Sonoran, but mostly I
want to hear from you what excites you most about
this new position of yours.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Well, thank you for asking. I'm very happy to answer
this question. So Sonorn University of Health Sciences is in Tempe, Arizona,
and you know we've been around since nineteen ninety two.
We offer a nachepathic medical program. We also offer a
master's program Masters of Science and Nutrition, and a Master's
(16:22):
of Science in Mental health. And we have several certificate
programs as well in areas related to those degrees. And
it's a vibrant community. And what I love most about
Snorn University, well, let me actually back up and say
that we have about five hundred students, six almost six
(16:44):
hundred students. We have a campus in Tempee that's quite beautiful.
We have a medical center there, so we offer nature
pathic care there. We have a research institute, the Rick
Scozel Research Institute, where we do botanical analysis. And so
there's a lot going on at the university. And what
(17:06):
I love about the community of our learners is that
these are individuals that are very committed to dedicating themselves
to understanding and applying the healing power of nature. And
we have some values at Sonoran and there are things
like we love, we achieve excellence, we are resilient. These
(17:27):
are the kind of values that we don't just have
them on the wall, We actually live these values and
it's a remarkable community. I've worked in many places that
are amazing communities, but I have to say Sonorin is
quite unique. Every staff member that I've interacted with, every employee,
every student, has this sort of shine to them when
(17:49):
I ask them about why they're here, and invariably they'll
answer with, well, I'm here because I want to be
a part of the healthcare solution for tomorrow. I love,
like an employee will say, I love that we are
helping to graduate amazing natropathic doctors, nutritionists, mental health counselors.
I love that I play a role in that the
(18:11):
students are just amazing. Some of these students have known
they've wanted to be a nature bathic doctor, for example,
since they were in high school. Like these are full
on committed individuals who are very committed to the health
of the human community. So for me, those are all
things that resonate deeply with me. So I find this
to be just such an exciting, exhilarating, really opportunity. It's
(18:35):
a big job, lots of challenges every day. I never
have I have not had one moment of boredom. But
I am just so excited and so grateful every day
to be a part of this, I really am. Yeah,
and I've known you now for over thirty years.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You are a big thinker, you think big, you do
big things. So what does the future, what would you
like to see happen for naturopathic medicine in the future.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
For Sonorian universities specifically, I feel like Sonoran will be
the global epicenter for natural healthcare. And there's lots of
ways in which we are going to become that, but
it's really through our dedication to the healing power of
nature into augmenting that through our academic offerings, are clinical offerings,
(19:29):
and our research offerings. So that is well underway at
Sonoran University and very excited to be leaving that effort.
Nature pathic medicine in general, I feel like the profession
itself is on the cusp of a big thing. So
right now, twenty six states and jurisdictions in the United
States license or regulate nature pathic medicine, so just over half.
(19:52):
So our next big hurdle as a profession is we
have to get universally licensed and regulated, because then we
have a access to all sorts of federal programs, the
access to people or people's ability to access our care
expands enormously when that happens. So that's a big next step,
and I think that we have you know, the profession
(20:14):
has a lot of efforts that we're putting forward to
make that happen on a state level, and the momentum
is there. I think globally, there's tremendous amount happening globally
with natural medicine and sort of different countries' versions of
nature pathic medicine, and were we in the US are
starting to connect ourselves more and more with our global
(20:36):
brothers and sisters, and so that there's really a community
of nature pathic medicine which is starting to coalesce and
to really preserve the important contribution that natural medicine has
to the health of humanity. And here's where I think
it's very important for people to kind of think about.
(20:57):
There is this thing we call convention medicine, which is amazing.
I mean, if I was in an accident, the hospital's
where I would want to go. And you know, we
talk a lot about people with cancer and we are
advocates for getting good conventional treatment. So there's absolutely a
critical role that conventional medicine has. But convention the system
(21:19):
of conventional healthcare is not sustainable. It's exorbitantly expensive. Physicians
are burning out, nurses are burning out, the experience for
the patient is getting worse and worse. That the whole
system is kind of imploding. And so in a way,
the fact that nature pathic medicine has been on the
(21:41):
outside of that imploding or sinking ship is actually, I think,
kind of a good thing, because we now what we
have to do is we have to continue to grow
so that we're ready to take all the people that
are looking for health and as they're jumping off that
sinking ship, we're ready to greet them and greet them
(22:01):
with health and wellness. So I think that, you know,
what we are doing is emerging in a very important
way alongside the conventional system that is going to have
to do some major rework in order to even survive.
And so there's kind of this interesting pattern of a
little bit of destruction happening on one side, growth happening
(22:24):
on the other side, and then together I think those
processes we will get to a place I hope where
maybe not my generation, but maybe in the next generation,
somebody who's sick or who's ill can actually have the
option to seek sort of care and support along this
continuum of care, and so that our part of the
(22:45):
continuum is they're kind of and we're building it stronger. Yeah,
it seems like there's an opening and there's an opportunity
for nantropathic medicine. Okay, so one last question. We only
have a couple of minutes left. If there is someone
listening who is on the fence and thinking about seeing
a naturopathic physician, what one minute final advice do you
(23:09):
have for that listener. You know, one thing I like
to say is that nature pathic doctors and I just
want to say, you know, other practitioners of holistic and
natural medicine, like the nutritionials that you're training, the mental
health counselors that you train, it snort, all of these
people have the idea that I want to find what
(23:31):
is working well in you and support that. I want
to build your wellness, I want to build your health.
That's a very different orientation than a conventional practitioner's going
to say, I want to find what the disease is
in you and eradicate that both things are important. And
you know, nature pathic doctors, for example, can certainly help
(23:53):
to eradicate certain diseases, no doubt we were very good
at that, in fact better than conventional medicine in certain arenas.
But I think what's really different about an hpathic medicine
orientation is that in the process of disease eradication, we
are all about finding out what's working well and building
that so rejuvenating health in an individual, and that is something.
(24:16):
If that appeals to you, that's what I would say,
you need to see an hpathic doctor. Yeah, I would agree.
I think that is the key difference.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And this has been an amazing show at least Where
can people find out more about sonorin?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
What's the website? Yeah, I'm going to give a couple websites.
So if you want to learn about Sonorin, it's sonorin
so nor a n dot edu. And if you want
to find out about hpathic medicine you want to find
an hpathic doctor near to you, you can go to
the National Association's website, which is Naturopathic dot org and
(24:56):
you can find a directory there. And then most states
also have a state Association of nature Pathic Medicine, So
those would be some good places to head. There's one
other place if you're listening, you're interested maybe in exploring
this as a career, you can certainly come to serve website.
You can also go to aa NMC dot org, which
is an organization that represents all of the nichepathic programs.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes, and on the consumer side for just general information.
Naturemed dot org is an organization, the Institute for Natural
Medicine that I write for. That's a great website as well,
so some great resources there. Well, at least this has
been a wonderful show. Thank you so much for helping
(25:41):
to clear up some of the misconceptions about naturopathic medicine,
a form of medicine that you and I both love.
And now I'd like to once again thank our sponsors.
First pro Thrivers, well Innes Sleep formula, Cetria Glutathione the
superior glutathione to support liver and immune health, Cognizance to
Colling to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor
(26:03):
or here is award winning shelf stable probiotic. And thanks again.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
To you Lease for your wonderful insights. Well, thank you, Carolyn.
I just want to point out that you were given
the what was the award called, that you were given
for the Champion awork. Yes, you were given a Champion
Award from the American Association of nature Pathic Doctors for
your consistent championing of nature pathic medicine and natural healthcare.
(26:32):
So thank you as well. Well, you're welcome, all right,
take us home? Lease all right? Well, I hope you
all enjoy your night. It's time to thrive. Have a
beautiful night.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Everyone, Have a good night.
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