February 13, 2024 • 30 mins
On this episode, we will hear from Jan Adrian, an amazing and truly inspirational cancer thriver, a patient advocate. Over 30 years, Jan has survived 3 cancers and multiple recurrences. Jan talks about her journey of living with cancer as a chronic disease and shares inspirational excerpts from her recently published memoir, Coloring Ouside the Lines.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguests should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Welcome to five toThrive Live, a podcast about thriving for
(00:44):
those who have been affected by cancerand chronic disease. I'm doctor Elise au
Schuler and I co host with mygood friend Carolyn Gazella. You can find
all of our past podcasts on everymajor podcast outlet, and you can also
find the schedule ithriveplan dot com,where you can sign up for our newsletter
as well. So tonight we're goingto hear from an amazing and truly inspirational
(01:07):
cancer thriver. I'm really delighted tohave Jan Adrian on the show this evening.
Jana's survivor of three primary cancers,breast cancer and both breasts and ocular
melanoma. She's had multiple recurrences andso she really has experienced cancer as a
chronic disease. Since nineteen eighty nine, she's been co director of Cancer Health
(01:30):
Awareness and she has also created Canceras a Turning point from Surviving to Thriving
conference and is the founder and directorof Healing Journeys, which is a nonprofit
form to produce this conference that Ijust mentioned. And she's offered these amazing
conferences which I've had the honor andprivilege to be a part of some nationwide
(01:53):
free of charge to over twenty fivethousand participants for twenty five years. Recently,
she has published a memoir Coloring Outsidethe Lines Surviving and Thriving with Cancer
for thirty plus us. And that'swhat we're going to talk about. But
before we get to that, letme thank our sponsors. First. We
have NFH, an innovative diary supplementmanufacturer that uses evidence based approaches to creating
(02:19):
high quality dietary supplements for integrative healthcareprofessionals. So if you want the highest
level of confidence in the dietary supplementsthat you take, ask your integrative practitioner
about NFH products. You can alsofind more information at NFH dot C.
We also think emuse, which isa unique patented post biotic that gives your
(02:40):
immune system a chiantage. Emuse isan ingredient in many immune supporting dietary supplements,
So look for Muse on the labelor go to Immusehealth dot com more
information and cognizanceticoline, which helps tokeep your brain firing on all cylinders.
So if you want more function includingmemory, focus and attention, look for
(03:05):
Cognizant on the label or go toCognizant dot com for more information. And
in fact, Prothriver's Brain is aproduct that contains Cognizant as well as some
other brain supporting nutrients and herbs.And you can find pro Thrivers Brain at
Pure Formulas dot com. And thenwe have doctor or Heroes Probiotics, a
best selling probiotic for over thirty years, contain's twelve probiotic strains which are shelf
(03:30):
stable without refrigeration due to a uniquethree year fermentation process. And you can
learn more at doctor Oherorobiotics dot com. And that brings me to you,
Jan, Welcome to five to ThriveLive. Thank you. It's so good
to be here. It's been manyyears since I've seen you, since we
did the conferences together, and I'vemissed you, so I'm glad to be
(03:53):
in your presence again. I knowlikewise i've missed you as well. You're
you know, You've always been sucha beauti full person and the work that
you do is just tremendous. Sowe're going to kind of dive into that
because other people deserve to know aboutyou as well. You know, your
journey is, in my opinion,rather heroic. You started with cancer in
(04:15):
nineteen eighty nine, and you know, without kind of going into every nitty
gritty detail, of which I'm sureeach detail deserves a lot of time,
give us a bit of a timelinejust so people can understand your experience of
cancer. So the first cancer innineteen eighty nine was in my left breast
(04:36):
and also under my left arm,and I had a mastectomy and a year
later it was back. I hadradiation. Then I kept having recurrences under
my left arm eventually, and Idon't even know how many. It's like
it's like cancer was just always withme. And then in two thousand and
(04:59):
two I had cancer in the otherbreast than in two thousand and seven,
ocular melanoma. In two thy elevenis when it metastasized to my lungs.
So I've had it in my lungsfor thirteen years. And I won't go
into all the different treatments that I'vedone. But that's kind of the cancer
(05:19):
history and the most I've ever been. They've never used the word in remission
with me. So it's been achronic disease. But there were sometimes four
years twice there were four years whenI didn't have an active cancer, but
other than that, it's been activefor thirty five years now. Yeah,
(05:42):
just really kind of a remarkable thing. And this is what we talk about
now you know that cancer can bea chronic disease rather than something that automatically
leads you down the path to deathor you know, remission, complete remission.
So I think that you are sucha good representation of the bit of
way. So you've just published amemoir, Coloring Outside the Lines, which
(06:06):
I read, and it's really quiteinsightful. It's very honest, you know,
I would say, almost a bitraw, like you just really talk
about your life and very frank terms. So why did you write this memoir
and what is it about? Sofor many years people have been told have
been telling me that I should writea book, and I always I always
(06:31):
pooh poot it because several reasons.One because I was never cancer free and
I thought I had to be cancerfree in order to write a book and
be inspirational. And then I alsothought there were way too many cancer books
on the market. It's like somany people have written the story about their
cancer and their healing process, andI thought, I just the market's glutted.
(06:56):
I don't want to add something elseto that. And then people can
convinced me one that living with cancerfor thirty years was inspirational, even though
I wasn't in remission. And theysaid, look at the books on the
market, and is there a bookabout somebody who lived with cancer for thirty
years? And I couldn't find one, So it seemed my story was unique.
(07:21):
And then and then the pandemic happened, And in a way that was
a gift because during the pandemic,I attended a memoir writing class on Zoom
every two weeks for two years,and so every week I would just write
(07:41):
another chapter in that class. AndI wasn't even sure it was going to
turn out to be a book,but after two years of writing it was
it was a book. Yeah,amazing. Well, you know, I
think you're absolutely right. They're reallyyou're giving voice to a growing, fortunately
grow number of people who live withcancer's chronic disease, and that's in and
(08:05):
of itself such a new concept forme. So I think it deserves voice,
which you give eloquently in this book, you know. And yeah,
you were going to say something,I think nope, just as so many
people have told me how inspired theyare that because so many of us,
(08:31):
when somebody has their first diagnosis,their biggest fear is ever recurrence, and
they're just so afraid it's going tocome back. And so many people have
told me that reading my book orhearing my story makes them realize that even
a recurrence is not a death sentence, and so they're no longer as afraid
every recurrence than they used to be. Yeah, that's right. Okay,
(08:54):
So you know your experience with cancerbegan in nineteen eighty nine, but you
actually attribute much of your learning tothe age of sixteen. So what happened
then that was so important to youlater? And I asked this question very
specifically because I think many times peoplewho have the diagnosis of cancer sort of
(09:16):
have this moment where they think,oh my gosh, I'm totally prepared for
this, or I don't know wherethis came from, or whatever. The
case might be, and it's likea start zero point in their life,
but actually it can my back.There can be things from the past that
influence how they experienced their disease anddiagnosis. So anyway, what happened to
sixteen? Why is that important?So? When I was sixteen, I
(09:39):
was homeschooled for a semester. Iwas a junior in high school, and
I was running a fever and feelingtired all the time, and I couldn't
go to school. I hardly didanything, but I was homeschooled and I
watched TV a lot, and myparents took me to several medical doctors and
(10:00):
they could not figure out what waswrong with me. It was during the
time that mononucleosis was very trendy,and they did the blood tests that I
did not have mono, and becausethey couldn't name it, they didn't know
how to treat it. They onedoctor tried something he thought maybe I had
a parasite, and he gave mesome medication that made me throw up and
(10:20):
get and lose and lose a bunchof weight and actually feel worse. So
anyhow, and desperation, my parentstook me to a chiropractor and he said
that it did not matter what weever named the illness, that my body
was fighting something and we needed tostrengthen my body's immune system to fight whatever
(10:41):
was going on. And he rubbedminerals into my body, and he put
me on a very strict diet.He told me I couldn't eat anything white,
no white flour, no sugar,which was devastating to me at sixteen.
I could go to a birth dayparty, but I couldn't eat the
carrot cake, and it was areally hard thing to do, but I
(11:07):
was desperate at the time, soI followed his diet, and after six
months, I was healthier than Ihad ever been. So all my symptoms
went away. My fatigue went away, my low grade fever went away,
my hair got curly. It hadbeen straight before that. My hair got
curly, and prior to that,I probably had had the flu every winter
(11:31):
of my life, and I don'tthink I had the flu for twenty years
after that six months diet change.So that was such a powerful experience that
when I was diagnosed with cancer,I knew that I had some belief in
the self healing abilities of the body, and that my immune system needed to
(11:52):
be supported and nourished in a waythat it could do the healing that it
was supposed to do. From thebeginning, I think, and always for
thirty five years, I've paid attentionto nutrition and to know that that makes
a difference in the health of thebody. Yeah. I had other experiences
(12:16):
when I was younger too, thatone of them that has to do with
intuition. And I can't tell allthe stories in a half an hour,
but they're in the book. Otherexperiences from when I was younger that really
influenced me when I was diagnosed withcancer, Yeah, which I think,
you know. Just the point you'remaking is that regardless of when the diagnosis
(12:39):
comes, we can rely on ouraccumulated life experiences to that point to help
us go forward in the journey.Yeah. So you also talk about you
have a chapter called cancer as aDisease of the Soul, and I'm just
wondering if you can describe briefly whatyou mean by that, hmm. Rather
(13:03):
than describing it briefly on what Iwant to do is tell you a story.
Okay, Because I prior to mydiagnosis, I had been through the
Center for Health Awareness. I hadbeen teaching nurses mind, body spirit stuff,
and so I knew when I wasdiagnosed that cancer was much more than
(13:26):
just a disease of the body.And I kind of felt like going to
the oncologist was like taking my carto a car mechanic, that they just
fixed the body and that was it. And I asked one of my earliest
oncologists, I said, you're whatall the treatments you're giving me our treatments
of the body, and how arewe going to treat the rest of me?
(13:48):
And he literally raised his voice,he yelled at me, and he
said, emotions have nothing to dowith us. I was thinking of emotions
and spirit of the soul. Andit was about that time that I went
to a conference at the Disneyland Hotelin Anaheim on healing and I was going
(14:09):
as a social worker to keep upmy license as an LCSW. And one
of the speakers was Jane Hinota Bolan, who was a prolific author, a
union analyst, and she talked aboutany disease as being a disease of the
soul, and she used mythology asa metaphor, and it seemed like she
(14:30):
was talking just to me. Shewas the first person I ever heard use
Tilhard Shardan's quote of where spiritual beingson a human path rather than human beings
who may or may not be ona spiritual path. So I was so
I was sitting there crying the wholetime because she was talking just to me.
(14:50):
And at the end of her talkthere was an immediate standing ovation of
nine hundred health professionals, and Irealized that everybody resonated with that information.
It wasn't just for me, andthat we do have to address the whole
person. We have to address thesoul, the spirit, the emotions,
(15:13):
our mental self as well as ourphysical self. So it was actually that
event that gave me the idea fordoing the conference Cancer as a Turning Point,
because that conference was so profound forme, and yet everyone in the
audience was health professionals, and Ithought, the people that really need to
(15:37):
hear this are those of us onthe front lines living with cancer. And
so that was the seed planted thatweekend for me to design the Cancer as
a Turning Point from Surviving to Thrivingconference, which took some of the same
kinds of things that I had experiencedat that conference out to the general public.
(15:58):
Yeah, yeah, I'm that conference. Are you still doing those conferences?
By the way, No, no, I kind of ran out of
steam when when we started doing them, the whole concept was really new.
Cancer centers did not have integrative departments, and so they were sponsoring our conference
(16:22):
because they had to provide something forsurvivorships. So they took our conference to
do that. And then gradually cancercenters have have woken up at least to
include some integrative treatments. So Idon't think our conference is as needed as
it was. And then the pandemicstarted. People don't want to be in
(16:45):
big groups anyhow, so I don'tI don't think we're going to do anymore.
Okay, Well it was an amazingthing. Well it lasted somber.
So your memoir includes, you know, a lot of chapters of life that
were challenging, painful, and yetthrough all these experiences in my reading it,
(17:07):
you really seem to keep finding away back your truth. And so
I'm wondering if you could just commenta little bit on living your own truth
in health and wellness and the impactthat that has health and wellness. Yes,
when when I again, here's alittle story when I when I first
(17:29):
started the conference, and I wantedto call it Cancer as a Turning Point.
And I was walking on a beachin Maui and I saw somebody reading
a book entitled Cancer as a TurningPoint, and I thought, Oh,
that means I'm going to have toget that author's permission to use that title.
It was by Larry Lashan, andI read that book and and Larry
(17:52):
Lashan's work was also very influential inmy cancer journey. And he's a therapist
who was doing research in New Yorkand a psychotherapist, and he wanted to
find out if doing therapy made adifference in the survival of cancer patients.
And he started out doing traditional psychotherapyand found that they may have died more
(18:19):
at peace, but they all continuedto die as predicted. And then he
changed the way of doing therapy andhe started really talking to people about what
their true path was. What songdid they come here to sing? What
was their bliss? Did they havedreams that they had never materialized? And
(18:42):
what made them excited to get upin the morning. And when he started
doing that to have people really lookat their soul and their truth and what
was meaningful to them, fifty percentof those terminal patients went into remission.
So reading his book book really helpedme. At the time, I was
(19:03):
working in my husband and I owneda furniture store, so I had I
think I had veered off my pathbecause it wasn't meaningful work for me.
And then based on the needs thatI felt as a cancer patient and what
I learned in Larry Lashan's book aboutabout singing your own song and doing what's
(19:27):
meaningful to you, it led meto starting healing journeys, which became a
very meaningful career for thirty years.And maybe part of the reason that I
that I survived because I was doingwhat was meaningful to me. Mm hmm,
(19:48):
yeah, okay, fair enough.I mean I think that that's actually
beautifully stated in that the way youdescribed living singing your song, or how
Larry described it as a answer myquestion about living your own truth and the
impact and the power that that has, you know, Easier said than done
for of course, but so important. So I'd like to let our listeners
(20:12):
hear a little bit from your books, So maybe you could read something you
have. You know, your book, you talk about what was important to
you when you were facing terrifying andoften unknown threat of cander. I'm wondering
if you might have an excerpt aroundthat theme that you could share. Yes,
(20:33):
I'm going to read just one pageout of a chapter called Spiritual Evolution.
Spirituality and my connection to the divinehas been a driving force in enabling
me to thrive with cancer for morethan thirty years. I believe in the
omnistions and omnipresence of God, meaningthat God is everywhere and everything. He
(20:57):
or she isn't up in the skyjudging us, but is the energy that
connects us and all of nature.A way of explaining this that resonates with
me is that I have a finiteself and an infinite self. My infinite
self is the individual called jan whofunctions in daily life. My infinite self
(21:21):
is the kingdom or energy of Godthat is within me. It is my
spiritual self or my soul. Whenthe finite and the infinite selves are connected,
this is my superpower. The infiniteme has all knowingness, is not
afraid and is at peace. Theinfinite me isn't anxious waiting for test results,
(21:44):
and doesn't panic when cancer market numbersgo up. The trick is not
to let finite events eclipse the infinite. I'm not saying this is easy to
do. The world around us addressesonly the finite self and reminds us constantly
of all the bad things that canhappen and how much we need to be
afraid. I have to consciously makean effort to stay in the peace of
(22:11):
the infinite self. There are manytools that can help me deep breathing,
meditation, prayer, nature, laughter, music, quiet, meaning and purpose
in life. I believe the versein the Bible that says all things work
together for good to those that loveGod. In practical terms, that means
(22:33):
that anything that washes up on mybeach, even cancer, is for my
good Things don't happen to me,they happen for me. I may not
immediately see the goodness in an eventor a diagnosis, but I know my
finite viewpoint is limited. I trustthat the goodness is there, and I
look for it. My spiritual lifeis an essential part of what has allowed
(22:57):
me to live with cancer for usfor thirty years. Prayer, meditation,
and daily reading of spiritual texts,along with a connection to the spiritual community,
are all crucial components of keeping myspirit enlivened, my attitude optimistic,
and my body healthy. Yeah.Beautiful, I mean beautifully written and read.
(23:22):
And you know, I think inthat description you also really kind of
go to the next question I wasgoing to ask you, which is the
difference between healing and curing? AndI would imagine that part of the healing
that happens is when your finite andinfinite self is in fact connected and integrated,
because in that beautiful state, beautifulunion, there really is only healing,
(23:49):
or that perhaps is the healing.Would you agree, I would agree,
yes. Yeah. So you know, on the finite level, you've
used both conventional and complementary natural therapies, and that too, I think is
something that's important because oftentimes there's alot of polarization in our world, including
(24:11):
in the world of cancer, andpeople get very polarized about just doing conventional
or just doing alternative. And Ithink you and I both share the philosophy
of really pulling forward the best ofboth. But how have you woven that
together the easiest time. I've hadso many doctors over the years, and
(24:33):
I've had actually only two that wereboth medical doctors and interested and knowledgeable about
complementary treatments. So the easiest timewas when I had a doctor who knew
both and brought both into play.But that's not usually the case. Most
medical doctors are using the only thingthey've learned in medical school, which is
(24:57):
how to use big farm and I'veused big Pharma, but that seems to
be all some of medical doctors know. So I've always also had a naturopathic
doctor, even though I've had topay for it out of pocket because unfortunately
they don't get covered by insurance.But for me, a naturopathic doctor has
(25:18):
skills that I really have needed tofind natural ways of healing. And in
fact, right right now, I'mworking with a naturopathic doctor, Mark Bricka,
who came up with a protocol thathe read about a study that he
(25:40):
read that my oncologist was willing tofollow. So that's what we're doing right
now. And I've over the years, I think I've fired seven oncologists because
if they weren't willing to support meand what else I was doing, then
I had a hard time working withthem. So I have an oncologist now
(26:03):
who who doesn't know anything about complimentarytreatments or treatments that don't involve big pharma,
but she's willing to support me inwhat I'm doing. Yeah, good
and good at what she does.That's fastic. So we only have a
couple minutes left. So I'm wonderingif there's a last excerpt that you might
(26:26):
want to share with the listeners.So I want to talk, just if
I can, for a minute aboutwhere I am now, because because that
will lead to this last excerpt thatI want to read. So I'm going
to say something that that may beshocking to you and everybody. But in
(26:48):
July of last year, my oncologistssaid that things were changing and she expected
me to be dead in six months. Of course, I'm not dead.
I'm still alive. But I've beenfocusing on that and the protocol that I'm
on right now seems to be keepingthe progression at bay. But the last
(27:12):
couple chapters, I mean, thelast couple of paragraphs in my books,
say one of our past conference speakers, Jeremy Geffen, MD, said,
the essence of healing is focused intentionwrapped in the arms of surrender. So
I am focusing my intention on healing, and I want to be at peace
(27:33):
with either outcome, living or dying, knowing that dying is guaranteed at some
point. Dying is not a failure. It doesn't mean I didn't try hard
enough or it wasn't positive enough.It just means I'm going on to the
next adventure. I've been told thatwe didn't want to be born. We
were very comfortable in the warm womb, and any other life was an unknown.
(28:00):
Didn't have a choice in that transitioneither, and it turned out okay.
I'm hoping that the next one willtoo beautiful. Well, I can
pretty much guarantee Jan that your nexttrans the transition or where you're it,
is going to be beautiful. Ithink it's beautiful for everyone, and for
you in particular. You have beensuch a light in this world. Just
(28:26):
the grace and the generosity that you'vebrought forth around cancer, demystifying it,
giving hope and courage to thousands ofindividuals quite amazing, remarkable and really something
you should be very very proud about. And I'm very honored. I'm yes,
(28:49):
I know, I know I wasgoing to use grateful, but you
already had that in your lexicon.But I think you should also be proud.
It's you know, it's no easytask what you did, and I'm
really just honored to walk the pathwith you here and there and delighted that
you have been on the show.I really encourage listeners to purchase this book,
(29:11):
Coloring Outside the Lines. It's justa beautiful you heard her read some
excerpts. The whole thing's written likethat, very honest, very just humbly
insightful. So where can they findthe book Healing Journeys dot org. But
if you can order it on Amazonor thrift Books or any any bookstore,
(29:34):
it's it's out there in the world. Wonderful. Well, we are out
of time unfortunately, so Jan thankyou so much for spending It's been a
pleasure. Thank you absolutely, Andthat wraps up this episode of five to
Thrive Live again. We thank oursponsors and Age the professional supplement line bridging
(29:57):
the gap between nutraceuticals and evidence basedmedicine, cognizance andicoline to help enhance memory,
focus and attention. Immuse a postbiotic for immune support and doctor or
Here's probiotics award winning pre and probaticformulas. And thank you listeners for joining
us. May you experience joy,laughter and love. It's time to thrive
(30:21):
everyone, great nights, the
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguests should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Welcome to five toThrive Live, a podcast about thriving for
(00:44):
those who have been affected by cancerand chronic disease. I'm doctor Elise au
Schuler and I co host with mygood friend Carolyn Gazella. You can find
all of our past podcasts on everymajor podcast outlet, and you can also
find the schedule ithriveplan dot com,where you can sign up for our newsletter
as well. So tonight we're goingto hear from an amazing and truly inspirational
(01:07):
cancer thriver. I'm really delighted tohave Jan Adrian on the show this evening.
Jana's survivor of three primary cancers,breast cancer and both breasts and ocular
melanoma. She's had multiple recurrences andso she really has experienced cancer as a
chronic disease. Since nineteen eighty nine, she's been co director of Cancer Health
(01:30):
Awareness and she has also created Canceras a Turning point from Surviving to Thriving
conference and is the founder and directorof Healing Journeys, which is a nonprofit
form to produce this conference that Ijust mentioned. And she's offered these amazing
conferences which I've had the honor andprivilege to be a part of some nationwide
(01:53):
free of charge to over twenty fivethousand participants for twenty five years. Recently,
she has published a memoir Coloring Outsidethe Lines Surviving and Thriving with Cancer
for thirty plus us. And that'swhat we're going to talk about. But
before we get to that, letme thank our sponsors. First. We
have NFH, an innovative diary supplementmanufacturer that uses evidence based approaches to creating
(02:19):
high quality dietary supplements for integrative healthcareprofessionals. So if you want the highest
level of confidence in the dietary supplementsthat you take, ask your integrative practitioner
about NFH products. You can alsofind more information at NFH dot C.
We also think emuse, which isa unique patented post biotic that gives your
(02:40):
immune system a chiantage. Emuse isan ingredient in many immune supporting dietary supplements,
So look for Muse on the labelor go to Immusehealth dot com more
information and cognizanceticoline, which helps tokeep your brain firing on all cylinders.
So if you want more function includingmemory, focus and attention, look for
(03:05):
Cognizant on the label or go toCognizant dot com for more information. And
in fact, Prothriver's Brain is aproduct that contains Cognizant as well as some
other brain supporting nutrients and herbs.And you can find pro Thrivers Brain at
Pure Formulas dot com. And thenwe have doctor or Heroes Probiotics, a
best selling probiotic for over thirty years, contain's twelve probiotic strains which are shelf
(03:30):
stable without refrigeration due to a uniquethree year fermentation process. And you can
learn more at doctor Oherorobiotics dot com. And that brings me to you,
Jan, Welcome to five to ThriveLive. Thank you. It's so good
to be here. It's been manyyears since I've seen you, since we
did the conferences together, and I'vemissed you, so I'm glad to be
(03:53):
in your presence again. I knowlikewise i've missed you as well. You're
you know, You've always been sucha beauti full person and the work that
you do is just tremendous. Sowe're going to kind of dive into that
because other people deserve to know aboutyou as well. You know, your
journey is, in my opinion,rather heroic. You started with cancer in
(04:15):
nineteen eighty nine, and you know, without kind of going into every nitty
gritty detail, of which I'm sureeach detail deserves a lot of time,
give us a bit of a timelinejust so people can understand your experience of
cancer. So the first cancer innineteen eighty nine was in my left breast
(04:36):
and also under my left arm,and I had a mastectomy and a year
later it was back. I hadradiation. Then I kept having recurrences under
my left arm eventually, and Idon't even know how many. It's like
it's like cancer was just always withme. And then in two thousand and
(04:59):
two I had cancer in the otherbreast than in two thousand and seven,
ocular melanoma. In two thy elevenis when it metastasized to my lungs.
So I've had it in my lungsfor thirteen years. And I won't go
into all the different treatments that I'vedone. But that's kind of the cancer
(05:19):
history and the most I've ever been. They've never used the word in remission
with me. So it's been achronic disease. But there were sometimes four
years twice there were four years whenI didn't have an active cancer, but
other than that, it's been activefor thirty five years now. Yeah,
(05:42):
just really kind of a remarkable thing. And this is what we talk about
now you know that cancer can bea chronic disease rather than something that automatically
leads you down the path to deathor you know, remission, complete remission.
So I think that you are sucha good representation of the bit of
way. So you've just published amemoir, Coloring Outside the Lines, which
(06:06):
I read, and it's really quiteinsightful. It's very honest, you know,
I would say, almost a bitraw, like you just really talk
about your life and very frank terms. So why did you write this memoir
and what is it about? Sofor many years people have been told have
been telling me that I should writea book, and I always I always
(06:31):
pooh poot it because several reasons.One because I was never cancer free and
I thought I had to be cancerfree in order to write a book and
be inspirational. And then I alsothought there were way too many cancer books
on the market. It's like somany people have written the story about their
cancer and their healing process, andI thought, I just the market's glutted.
(06:56):
I don't want to add something elseto that. And then people can
convinced me one that living with cancerfor thirty years was inspirational, even though
I wasn't in remission. And theysaid, look at the books on the
market, and is there a bookabout somebody who lived with cancer for thirty
years? And I couldn't find one, So it seemed my story was unique.
(07:21):
And then and then the pandemic happened, And in a way that was
a gift because during the pandemic,I attended a memoir writing class on Zoom
every two weeks for two years,and so every week I would just write
(07:41):
another chapter in that class. AndI wasn't even sure it was going to
turn out to be a book,but after two years of writing it was
it was a book. Yeah,amazing. Well, you know, I
think you're absolutely right. They're reallyyou're giving voice to a growing, fortunately
grow number of people who live withcancer's chronic disease, and that's in and
(08:05):
of itself such a new concept forme. So I think it deserves voice,
which you give eloquently in this book, you know. And yeah,
you were going to say something,I think nope, just as so many
people have told me how inspired theyare that because so many of us,
(08:31):
when somebody has their first diagnosis,their biggest fear is ever recurrence, and
they're just so afraid it's going tocome back. And so many people have
told me that reading my book orhearing my story makes them realize that even
a recurrence is not a death sentence, and so they're no longer as afraid
every recurrence than they used to be. Yeah, that's right. Okay,
(08:54):
So you know your experience with cancerbegan in nineteen eighty nine, but you
actually attribute much of your learning tothe age of sixteen. So what happened
then that was so important to youlater? And I asked this question very
specifically because I think many times peoplewho have the diagnosis of cancer sort of
(09:16):
have this moment where they think,oh my gosh, I'm totally prepared for
this, or I don't know wherethis came from, or whatever. The
case might be, and it's likea start zero point in their life,
but actually it can my back.There can be things from the past that
influence how they experienced their disease anddiagnosis. So anyway, what happened to
sixteen? Why is that important?So? When I was sixteen, I
(09:39):
was homeschooled for a semester. Iwas a junior in high school, and
I was running a fever and feelingtired all the time, and I couldn't
go to school. I hardly didanything, but I was homeschooled and I
watched TV a lot, and myparents took me to several medical doctors and
(10:00):
they could not figure out what waswrong with me. It was during the
time that mononucleosis was very trendy,and they did the blood tests that I
did not have mono, and becausethey couldn't name it, they didn't know
how to treat it. They onedoctor tried something he thought maybe I had
a parasite, and he gave mesome medication that made me throw up and
(10:20):
get and lose and lose a bunchof weight and actually feel worse. So
anyhow, and desperation, my parentstook me to a chiropractor and he said
that it did not matter what weever named the illness, that my body
was fighting something and we needed tostrengthen my body's immune system to fight whatever
(10:41):
was going on. And he rubbedminerals into my body, and he put
me on a very strict diet.He told me I couldn't eat anything white,
no white flour, no sugar,which was devastating to me at sixteen.
I could go to a birth dayparty, but I couldn't eat the
carrot cake, and it was areally hard thing to do, but I
(11:07):
was desperate at the time, soI followed his diet, and after six
months, I was healthier than Ihad ever been. So all my symptoms
went away. My fatigue went away, my low grade fever went away,
my hair got curly. It hadbeen straight before that. My hair got
curly, and prior to that,I probably had had the flu every winter
(11:31):
of my life, and I don'tthink I had the flu for twenty years
after that six months diet change.So that was such a powerful experience that
when I was diagnosed with cancer,I knew that I had some belief in
the self healing abilities of the body, and that my immune system needed to
(11:52):
be supported and nourished in a waythat it could do the healing that it
was supposed to do. From thebeginning, I think, and always for
thirty five years, I've paid attentionto nutrition and to know that that makes
a difference in the health of thebody. Yeah. I had other experiences
(12:16):
when I was younger too, thatone of them that has to do with
intuition. And I can't tell allthe stories in a half an hour,
but they're in the book. Otherexperiences from when I was younger that really
influenced me when I was diagnosed withcancer, Yeah, which I think,
you know. Just the point you'remaking is that regardless of when the diagnosis
(12:39):
comes, we can rely on ouraccumulated life experiences to that point to help
us go forward in the journey.Yeah. So you also talk about you
have a chapter called cancer as aDisease of the Soul, and I'm just
wondering if you can describe briefly whatyou mean by that, hmm. Rather
(13:03):
than describing it briefly on what Iwant to do is tell you a story.
Okay, Because I prior to mydiagnosis, I had been through the
Center for Health Awareness. I hadbeen teaching nurses mind, body spirit stuff,
and so I knew when I wasdiagnosed that cancer was much more than
(13:26):
just a disease of the body.And I kind of felt like going to
the oncologist was like taking my carto a car mechanic, that they just
fixed the body and that was it. And I asked one of my earliest
oncologists, I said, you're whatall the treatments you're giving me our treatments
of the body, and how arewe going to treat the rest of me?
(13:48):
And he literally raised his voice,he yelled at me, and he
said, emotions have nothing to dowith us. I was thinking of emotions
and spirit of the soul. Andit was about that time that I went
to a conference at the Disneyland Hotelin Anaheim on healing and I was going
(14:09):
as a social worker to keep upmy license as an LCSW. And one
of the speakers was Jane Hinota Bolan, who was a prolific author, a
union analyst, and she talked aboutany disease as being a disease of the
soul, and she used mythology asa metaphor, and it seemed like she
(14:30):
was talking just to me. Shewas the first person I ever heard use
Tilhard Shardan's quote of where spiritual beingson a human path rather than human beings
who may or may not be ona spiritual path. So I was so
I was sitting there crying the wholetime because she was talking just to me.
(14:50):
And at the end of her talkthere was an immediate standing ovation of
nine hundred health professionals, and Irealized that everybody resonated with that information.
It wasn't just for me, andthat we do have to address the whole
person. We have to address thesoul, the spirit, the emotions,
(15:13):
our mental self as well as ourphysical self. So it was actually that
event that gave me the idea fordoing the conference Cancer as a Turning Point,
because that conference was so profound forme, and yet everyone in the
audience was health professionals, and Ithought, the people that really need to
(15:37):
hear this are those of us onthe front lines living with cancer. And
so that was the seed planted thatweekend for me to design the Cancer as
a Turning Point from Surviving to Thrivingconference, which took some of the same
kinds of things that I had experiencedat that conference out to the general public.
(15:58):
Yeah, yeah, I'm that conference. Are you still doing those conferences?
By the way, No, no, I kind of ran out of
steam when when we started doing them, the whole concept was really new.
Cancer centers did not have integrative departments, and so they were sponsoring our conference
(16:22):
because they had to provide something forsurvivorships. So they took our conference to
do that. And then gradually cancercenters have have woken up at least to
include some integrative treatments. So Idon't think our conference is as needed as
it was. And then the pandemicstarted. People don't want to be in
(16:45):
big groups anyhow, so I don'tI don't think we're going to do anymore.
Okay, Well it was an amazingthing. Well it lasted somber.
So your memoir includes, you know, a lot of chapters of life that
were challenging, painful, and yetthrough all these experiences in my reading it,
(17:07):
you really seem to keep finding away back your truth. And so
I'm wondering if you could just commenta little bit on living your own truth
in health and wellness and the impactthat that has health and wellness. Yes,
when when I again, here's alittle story when I when I first
(17:29):
started the conference, and I wantedto call it Cancer as a Turning Point.
And I was walking on a beachin Maui and I saw somebody reading
a book entitled Cancer as a TurningPoint, and I thought, Oh,
that means I'm going to have toget that author's permission to use that title.
It was by Larry Lashan, andI read that book and and Larry
(17:52):
Lashan's work was also very influential inmy cancer journey. And he's a therapist
who was doing research in New Yorkand a psychotherapist, and he wanted to
find out if doing therapy made adifference in the survival of cancer patients.
And he started out doing traditional psychotherapyand found that they may have died more
(18:19):
at peace, but they all continuedto die as predicted. And then he
changed the way of doing therapy andhe started really talking to people about what
their true path was. What songdid they come here to sing? What
was their bliss? Did they havedreams that they had never materialized? And
(18:42):
what made them excited to get upin the morning. And when he started
doing that to have people really lookat their soul and their truth and what
was meaningful to them, fifty percentof those terminal patients went into remission.
So reading his book book really helpedme. At the time, I was
(19:03):
working in my husband and I owneda furniture store, so I had I
think I had veered off my pathbecause it wasn't meaningful work for me.
And then based on the needs thatI felt as a cancer patient and what
I learned in Larry Lashan's book aboutabout singing your own song and doing what's
(19:27):
meaningful to you, it led meto starting healing journeys, which became a
very meaningful career for thirty years.And maybe part of the reason that I
that I survived because I was doingwhat was meaningful to me. Mm hmm,
(19:48):
yeah, okay, fair enough.I mean I think that that's actually
beautifully stated in that the way youdescribed living singing your song, or how
Larry described it as a answer myquestion about living your own truth and the
impact and the power that that has, you know, Easier said than done
for of course, but so important. So I'd like to let our listeners
(20:12):
hear a little bit from your books, So maybe you could read something you
have. You know, your book, you talk about what was important to
you when you were facing terrifying andoften unknown threat of cander. I'm wondering
if you might have an excerpt aroundthat theme that you could share. Yes,
(20:33):
I'm going to read just one pageout of a chapter called Spiritual Evolution.
Spirituality and my connection to the divinehas been a driving force in enabling
me to thrive with cancer for morethan thirty years. I believe in the
omnistions and omnipresence of God, meaningthat God is everywhere and everything. He
(20:57):
or she isn't up in the skyjudging us, but is the energy that
connects us and all of nature.A way of explaining this that resonates with
me is that I have a finiteself and an infinite self. My infinite
self is the individual called jan whofunctions in daily life. My infinite self
(21:21):
is the kingdom or energy of Godthat is within me. It is my
spiritual self or my soul. Whenthe finite and the infinite selves are connected,
this is my superpower. The infiniteme has all knowingness, is not
afraid and is at peace. Theinfinite me isn't anxious waiting for test results,
(21:44):
and doesn't panic when cancer market numbersgo up. The trick is not
to let finite events eclipse the infinite. I'm not saying this is easy to
do. The world around us addressesonly the finite self and reminds us constantly
of all the bad things that canhappen and how much we need to be
afraid. I have to consciously makean effort to stay in the peace of
(22:11):
the infinite self. There are manytools that can help me deep breathing,
meditation, prayer, nature, laughter, music, quiet, meaning and purpose
in life. I believe the versein the Bible that says all things work
together for good to those that loveGod. In practical terms, that means
(22:33):
that anything that washes up on mybeach, even cancer, is for my
good Things don't happen to me,they happen for me. I may not
immediately see the goodness in an eventor a diagnosis, but I know my
finite viewpoint is limited. I trustthat the goodness is there, and I
look for it. My spiritual lifeis an essential part of what has allowed
(22:57):
me to live with cancer for usfor thirty years. Prayer, meditation,
and daily reading of spiritual texts,along with a connection to the spiritual community,
are all crucial components of keeping myspirit enlivened, my attitude optimistic,
and my body healthy. Yeah.Beautiful, I mean beautifully written and read.
(23:22):
And you know, I think inthat description you also really kind of
go to the next question I wasgoing to ask you, which is the
difference between healing and curing? AndI would imagine that part of the healing
that happens is when your finite andinfinite self is in fact connected and integrated,
because in that beautiful state, beautifulunion, there really is only healing,
(23:49):
or that perhaps is the healing.Would you agree, I would agree,
yes. Yeah. So you know, on the finite level, you've
used both conventional and complementary natural therapies, and that too, I think is
something that's important because oftentimes there's alot of polarization in our world, including
(24:11):
in the world of cancer, andpeople get very polarized about just doing conventional
or just doing alternative. And Ithink you and I both share the philosophy
of really pulling forward the best ofboth. But how have you woven that
together the easiest time. I've hadso many doctors over the years, and
(24:33):
I've had actually only two that wereboth medical doctors and interested and knowledgeable about
complementary treatments. So the easiest timewas when I had a doctor who knew
both and brought both into play.But that's not usually the case. Most
medical doctors are using the only thingthey've learned in medical school, which is
(24:57):
how to use big farm and I'veused big Pharma, but that seems to
be all some of medical doctors know. So I've always also had a naturopathic
doctor, even though I've had topay for it out of pocket because unfortunately
they don't get covered by insurance.But for me, a naturopathic doctor has
(25:18):
skills that I really have needed tofind natural ways of healing. And in
fact, right right now, I'mworking with a naturopathic doctor, Mark Bricka,
who came up with a protocol thathe read about a study that he
(25:40):
read that my oncologist was willing tofollow. So that's what we're doing right
now. And I've over the years, I think I've fired seven oncologists because
if they weren't willing to support meand what else I was doing, then
I had a hard time working withthem. So I have an oncologist now
(26:03):
who who doesn't know anything about complimentarytreatments or treatments that don't involve big pharma,
but she's willing to support me inwhat I'm doing. Yeah, good
and good at what she does.That's fastic. So we only have a
couple minutes left. So I'm wonderingif there's a last excerpt that you might
(26:26):
want to share with the listeners.So I want to talk, just if
I can, for a minute aboutwhere I am now, because because that
will lead to this last excerpt thatI want to read. So I'm going
to say something that that may beshocking to you and everybody. But in
(26:48):
July of last year, my oncologistssaid that things were changing and she expected
me to be dead in six months. Of course, I'm not dead.
I'm still alive. But I've beenfocusing on that and the protocol that I'm
on right now seems to be keepingthe progression at bay. But the last
(27:12):
couple chapters, I mean, thelast couple of paragraphs in my books,
say one of our past conference speakers, Jeremy Geffen, MD, said,
the essence of healing is focused intentionwrapped in the arms of surrender. So
I am focusing my intention on healing, and I want to be at peace
(27:33):
with either outcome, living or dying, knowing that dying is guaranteed at some
point. Dying is not a failure. It doesn't mean I didn't try hard
enough or it wasn't positive enough.It just means I'm going on to the
next adventure. I've been told thatwe didn't want to be born. We
were very comfortable in the warm womb, and any other life was an unknown.
(28:00):
Didn't have a choice in that transitioneither, and it turned out okay.
I'm hoping that the next one willtoo beautiful. Well, I can
pretty much guarantee Jan that your nexttrans the transition or where you're it,
is going to be beautiful. Ithink it's beautiful for everyone, and for
you in particular. You have beensuch a light in this world. Just
(28:26):
the grace and the generosity that you'vebrought forth around cancer, demystifying it,
giving hope and courage to thousands ofindividuals quite amazing, remarkable and really something
you should be very very proud about. And I'm very honored. I'm yes,
(28:49):
I know, I know I wasgoing to use grateful, but you
already had that in your lexicon.But I think you should also be proud.
It's you know, it's no easytask what you did, and I'm
really just honored to walk the pathwith you here and there and delighted that
you have been on the show.I really encourage listeners to purchase this book,
(29:11):
Coloring Outside the Lines. It's justa beautiful you heard her read some
excerpts. The whole thing's written likethat, very honest, very just humbly
insightful. So where can they findthe book Healing Journeys dot org. But
if you can order it on Amazonor thrift Books or any any bookstore,
(29:34):
it's it's out there in the world. Wonderful. Well, we are out
of time unfortunately, so Jan thankyou so much for spending It's been a
pleasure. Thank you absolutely, Andthat wraps up this episode of five to
Thrive Live again. We thank oursponsors and Age the professional supplement line bridging
(29:57):
the gap between nutraceuticals and evidence basedmedicine, cognizance andicoline to help enhance memory,
focus and attention. Immuse a postbiotic for immune support and doctor or
Here's probiotics award winning pre and probaticformulas. And thank you listeners for joining
us. May you experience joy,laughter and love. It's time to thrive
(30:21):
everyone, great nights, the
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