November 24, 2023 • 29 mins
These are difficult times we live in and some people are struggling more than others. On this show, Karolyn talks with mental health expert Tara Peyman, ND, who utilizes an integrative, natural approach to treating anxiety with her patients. There is no need to struggle in silence. Help is available. Dr. Peyman will describe practical strategies to help ease anxiety naturally. If you or someone you love is struggling right now, you won't want to miss this show!
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:43):
Carolyn Gazilla and I co host theshow with my good friend, doctor Lisa
Olschuler. So are you feeling anxiousthese days? I know I am,
But what can we do about ouranxiety? We'll find out in today's show.
But first I'd like to thank oursponsors, beginning with NFH, an
innovative dietary supplement manufacturer that uses anevidence based approach to creating dietary supplements for
(01:07):
integrative healthcare professionals. If you wanthigh quality dietary supplements, ask your integrative
practitioner about NFH products so you canalso find more information at NFH dot CAA
immuse is a unique, patented postbiotic that gives your immune system a key
advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient inmany immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for
ammuse on the label or go toammusehealth dot com for more information. Also
(01:32):
cognizance citicoline, which is nature's wayof keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing
on all cylinders. If you're lookingfor a way to enhance your brain function
including memory, focus, and attention, look for Cognizant on the label or
go to cognizan dot com for moreinformation. And doctor Oheres Probiotics. It's
a best selling probiotic for more thanthirty years. It contains twelve prootic strains
(01:53):
that are shelf stable, so norefrigeration is required because of a unique three
year fermentation process. Very effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira probiotics dot
com. With me today is mentalhealth expert doctor Tarah Payman, who is
the clinical director of the Integrated MentalHealth Center in Scottsdale, Arizona. She
(02:14):
specializes in a variety of mental healthissues and is a certified clinical trauma professional.
She is also the vice president ofthe Psychiatric Association of Naturopathic Physicians.
Doctor Payman, Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here. Solet's just dive right in. How big
of a problem is anxiety? Dowe have any statistics. Oh sure,
(02:38):
so well, anxiety is extremely common. It's actually the most common mental health
condition in the United States. Sowhen you were saying earlier, you know
you've been feeling anxious, many otherpeople have been feeling anxious as well.
In fact, about thirty percent ofAmerican adults have had a significant level of
(02:59):
anxiety in their lifetime, enough tocause impairment in their ability to function at
times. And so, you know, even though many people feel alone in
their experience of anxiety, they think, oh, I must be you know,
the only one who goes through this, and I and there's something wrong
with me. In fact, ifyou're in a group of people, chances
are that one in three people inthat room have also experienced similar symptoms.
(03:23):
So you're not at all alone.Yeah, that's such a good point,
because sometimes we can get isolated inour feelings of anxiety, and that causes
us not to get the help thatwe need. So it's a really good
point. How does conventional medicine typicallytreat anxiety? So conventional medicine can treat
(03:44):
anxiety, sometimes very effectively. Thereare different types of anxiety medications, different
classes of medications. Some of themthe most commonly used ones are SSRI medication
like fluoxetine, et cetera. Thosetypes of medications are sometimes very effective for
(04:05):
some people. Sometimes they're not effective, and in other cases they can cause
some side effects. They can alsotake a little bit of time to work.
There are other types of medications likebenzodiazepine medications. Those can help very
rapidly to reduce anxiety, but theyhave some downsides potentially as well. Yeah,
(04:30):
let's talk about those downsides. Whatare some of the downsides specifically when
it comes to the conventional strategy,which you're saying basically relies on a pharmaceutical
approach. Yeah, so the pharmaceuticalsto treat anxiety. When I was talking
about the benzodiazepine class of anxiety medications, those are there's a lot of different
(04:55):
ones, but they're all within thatsame class. An example would be like
raz apam, kloonazipam. Those typesof medications can be very effective immediately in
many cases for reducing the distress thata person is feeling. And yet the
downside is that they can be veryaddictive because they work really rapidly to reduce
(05:19):
the negative effects of the anxiety conditionor panic attacks. They can be so
effective, but then they wear offreally quickly and the anxiety floods back,
and then the person needs to takeit again, and then it floods back
again, and then they often willneed more and more and more, and
(05:39):
it can actually turn into a trueaddiction, or at least if it's not
a true addiction, with cravings andaddictive patterns, there can be a physical
dependency that the person often develops whenthey utilize these benzodiazepine medications over a period
of more than two or three weeks. And so when you're treating something,
(06:02):
especially a chronic anxiety condition, it'soften not recommended to utilize benzodiazepines when it
comes to other medication options like SSRIor s nrII those are types of different
types of anti anxiety prescription medications.It's a specific class. So within those
(06:24):
are like I mentioned fuluoxetine, ctalpram, scetalopram, those are just different names
of anti anxiety medications that are it'sthose the same ones are also used to
treat depression in many cases, sothey can be helpful. The downsides or
that sometimes they don't work. Theycan also take two to four weeks to
(06:46):
start working, So if you're goingthrough a really stressful experience, sometimes they
won't even kick in until after thatexperience has already been going on for several
weeks. Some other downsides are theycan cause waking. They can also affect
your libido and cause low libido ora sexual dysfunction. They can also cause
(07:06):
fatigue or an emotional numbing sort ofexperience where instead of like, you may
not feel as anxious, but thensometimes you can't feel joy either, or
you can't really feel anything, andso that's often not a very pleasant experience.
Yeah. I mean, given thefact that these are kind of hit
and miss and that the side effectprofile is pretty extensive, it seems like
(07:30):
it would be a good idea tomaybe look at other strategies before resorting to
some of these pharmaceuticals. And Iknow, as a naturopathic physician who specializes
in mental health, you use anatural approach. So how is your approach
different from the conventional approach. Well, one way that it's different is that
(07:54):
we have a lot more options ofthings that we can utilize, such as
different natural these homeopathic medicines, acupuncture, cranio sacral therapy, different herbal medicines
and nutritional supplements. Dietary changes sometimescan be helpful in certain cases. Mindfulness
(08:15):
practices, we can incorporate so manythings. As a naturopathic doctor, I'm
really I'm trained both to understand theconventional and be able to prescribe the conventional
medicines if they are absolutely necessary,but I also am trained to be able
to offer a whole host of naturalalternatives that or you know, I say
(08:39):
alternatives, but in fact, sometimesmany of my patients come in to my
practice already taking prescription medications, andsometimes those medications are helping in some ways,
and they don't want to necessarily stopthem altogether, but they want to
add something else to help improve theoverall sort of outcomes and help them,
(09:03):
you know, reduce the symptoms thatthey're experiencing because they're getting partial improvement from
the conventional medicines, and so wecan offer a lot of different options to
help complement or possibly use instead ofthe conventional options. Yeah. I think
this is a really good point toemphasize, because the naturopathic approach is not
(09:26):
an either or. You're not saying, oh, stop taking your meds.
What you're doing is you're expanding,and when somebody works with a naturopathic physician
who's trained in mental health, thatdoctor knows about contry indications, what's safe,
what's not safe, and you know, what can be given with a
(09:46):
medication, and it's complex, youknow. So I think working with a
naturopath like yourself is pretty critical,right, Yeah, I think it's quite
helpful and in some cases really important, you know, especially if somebody is
taking a lot of or even youknow, even one or two prescription medications,
(10:09):
or if they have a chronic conditionof anxiety that they consult with a
well trained, well versed doctor,you know, a natropathic doctor, versus
trying, you know, rather thantrying to do it on your own,
which can have its risks and itsdownsides. And it's really stressful to figure
this stuff out on your own.You know, there's so much information out
(10:31):
there. It's there's a lot ofa lot of books and podcasts and you
know, YouTube videos, and there'sso many opinions and fads and things,
you know, people telling you youhave to try this or this is the
best diet or this is the bestsupplement, and it's hard to know what
to believe, and so it's reallyimportant to be able to have an expert
(10:52):
who can guide you, you know, hold your hand through the whole process
and make sure that you do itsafely. Yeah. I agree. So
let's dig in. You mentioned alot of tools in your toolbox, and
I want to highlight some of those. You know, some of the natural
strategies, and you already mentioned thatthe medications can take weeks to kick in,
(11:13):
and some of the natural strategies likediet and lifetime lifestyle, which we're
going to talk about, also taketime. So if you ever use dietary
supplements to help provide symptom relief asthe other strategies are kicking in, and
if you do, what are someof your go to new chants and herbs
that might help with the symptoms ofanxiety and might help quickly. Yeah,
(11:35):
absolutely, so I have so manyoptions and lots of different favorites. One
of the things I do use withjust about everybody is an individualized homeopathic remedy.
And I won't get too detailed intothat because it's there's not one homeopathic
medicine that's used, you know,for everybody with anxiety. It's very individualized
(12:00):
to each particular patient. So butthat is a big part of what I
find to be helpful. And oftenit can work really quickly, like with
in some cases it can work withina day or sometimes even with you know,
within a few days. It canmake a big difference. So that's
something that I find helpful as faras can I stop you once after payment,
(12:22):
because this is really important. Sowhat you're talking about with a home
an individualized homeopathic remedy that is prescribedby someone with the knowledge. You're not
talking about going to the health foodstore and picking up arnica. You know,
you know what I mean you're talkingabout. And I've actually gone through
the process right with the trained homeopath. It's extensive, it's deep, and
(12:43):
it's really valuable. And so thisis very different than than you know,
buying article it is. It's verydifferent even than you know if you go
to the health food store. Thething about homeopathic medicines is their FDA regulated
and the companies who make them putan indication for use on the label,
(13:05):
and that indication for use is justone of many symptoms that the homeopathic medicine
may be able to treat. Andsome of those indications for use are anxiety
and so it'll say anxiety, anticipationanxiety or apprehension or stage fright or clusterrophobia
(13:26):
or something like that. Some ofthose remedies actually say that in the vials
that you could find at a healthfood store. And so sometimes I'll get
a patient coming to me saying,oh, I've tried different homopathic medicines and
they don't work for me. Andthen I'll ask them of what did you
try And did you actually see atrained, you know, homeopathic expert in
(13:48):
this or did you just kind ofgo by what you read on the label.
And the thing about homeopathic medicine is, as you said, it goes
really deep into a really comprehensive lookat not just you know, are you
diagnosed with anxiety, but what areall of the ins and outs of how
you experience that, What types ofthoughts go through your head? What does
(14:11):
it feel like in your body?Do you tend to, you know,
get hot fleshes with anxiety? Doyou tend to get restless or do you
freeze? And do you want companyor do you need to be alone?
Et cetera. All of these detailsmake your case unique and and you know,
different from the next person who maycome in with the exactame diagnosis,
(14:31):
and so it's based on those uniquedetails that I can find a homeopathic medicine
that really matches you, and thenthat can provide a lot of relief.
So that's my favorite way to treatpeople because it also truly treats a deeper
underlying cause rather than just kind ofband dating. But if we do,
you know, I don't. I'mnot opposed to band aids. Sometimes we
(14:54):
need them, right if we're reallysuffering. And so as far as treatments
that can be just sort of quickfixes without the downsides of the conventional,
you know, like the addictive medications. One of my favorites is elthionine,
which is a natural supplement. It'sactually a constituent that's found in green tea,
(15:15):
and it's the part of green teathat causes like a zen sort of
feeling. So it reduces cortisol andit helps with improving balance of serotonin and
dopamine. It helps you feel kindof like this calm, relaxed feeling,
and yet you can still focus andyou still feel alert. So that's a
really nice option that I use witha lot of people. I've also used
(15:37):
passionflower extract, sometimes kava. SometimesI'll use lemon balm. Lemon balm is
a really nice option for people thathave anxiety and digestive problems. Because lemon
balm is an herbal, it's anherbal remedy. It's very very safe.
It is used for irritable bells ornausea, and so it has that nice
(16:03):
benefit of kind of calming the wholenervous system in the gut as well as
calming the brain. So that's anice kind of link. There are a
lot of people with anxiety also feeltheir kind of a stomach nervousness, and
so lemon volm is a nice optionfor those folks. I also use magnesium.
I sometimes use GABBA and n acetylcysteine or NAC is another nutritional supplement
(16:30):
that I find to be helpful,especially if somebody has anxiety with an obsessive
kind of quality or anxiety and OCD. Yeah, these are great, and
some of these will help with sleep, Like I take alfaianine at night before.
Yes, and I combined myl withmagnesium. Yeah, absolutely, that
can be very helpful. Yeah.Okay, well let's switch gears and talk
(16:52):
a little bit about diet. Sohow can diet impact anxiety, either positively
or negatively. You get to choosewhat you'd like to focus on. Well,
maybe I'll talk a little bit aboutboth. So one of the ways
that diet can influence anxiety is it'sjust what we eat impacts our gut health,
(17:14):
and our gut is connected to ourbrain. There's so much research that's
coming out now about the gut brainconnection, and so how we nourish our
body and the kinds of foods thatwe put into our digestive system not only
affects us in terms of you know, whether we're nutritionally deficient or nutritionally abundant,
(17:37):
or you know, whether we havethe right type of nutrients to balance
our brain health, but it alsosignificantly impacts our gut health. So,
for example, if we eat alot of inflammatory foods, like if we
go out to a restaurant and wehave a burger in French fries, I'm
not opposed to eating a burger inFrench fries, and it's also a pretty
inflammatory meal. So a lot ofthe time that goes into the body and
(18:02):
it creates a pretty inflamed state inthe stomach and in the intestines and then
when the intestines are inflamed, there'san immune reaction that happens where everything gets
kind of irritated in the whole gut. And then when your gut is irritated,
your body produces this inflammation kind ofstate, and when your gut is
(18:25):
inflamed, it actually affects your wholenervous system, and your nervous system becomes
more irritated. There's a lot ofresearch that's showing this connection now. So
then there's often a relationship that peopledon't necessarily always tune into that's present in
many cases where somebody eats something andthen their gut gets irritated and then they
(18:51):
get anxious. You know, laterthat day or even within a few minutes
or sometimes within a few hours ofconsuming that meal, they'll start to not
feel good. Sometimes they'll feel kindof sluggish and anxious at the same time,
tired and anxious at the same time, headachey and anxious at the same
time. Those are all really commonsigns that you might be allergic or sensitive
(19:12):
or just inflamed from what you justeat. So that's a connection. There's
also and so on the flip sideof that, if you eat anti inflammatory
foods or foods that are very nutritionallydense, then you can help improve your
gut health and help reduce the riskof creating that inflamed sort of state in
(19:34):
your digestive system, and thus yourbrain health can also improve. The other
factor I really want to mention isblood sugar regulation. So when it comes
to diet, if you're eating ina really erratic way, or you're eating
let's say, you know, youwake up in the morning and you have
a cup of coffee and then youdon't eat anything for four hours, and
(19:56):
then you have a donut, andthen you don't eat anything for you know,
an hour, and then you eatsomething, you know, chips or
some kind of you know, notvery nutritious meal. Then your blood sugar
is going to be going through likedrops and spikes. And when you have
(20:17):
low blood sugar and then high bloodsugar, you are so much more likely
to have anxiety. There's a verystrong correlation between hypoglycemia, low blood sugar,
and increased levels of anxiety. Whenyour blood sugar drops, your stress
hormones go way up, and youcan get a surge of adrenaline that tells
(20:40):
your body basically puts your body intoa fight or flight state, which feels
exactly like an anxiety attack, butin fact it's actually a low blood sugar
attack, so to speak. Soit's something to just really be aware of
and you can you can check forthis, you know, if you tend
to have low blood sugar, it'ssomething that your doctor can test for.
(21:03):
The first thing to do is justtry. You know, maybe you need
help with regulating your diet or ifyou notice that you know, you're not
eating consistent meals or your meals aresort of erratic. If you can work
on regulating your meal times, thatcan make a huge difference for a lot
of people with regulating and reducing anxiety. Yeah, it's such a good point.
(21:25):
I'm obsessed with the gut and themicrobiome and how it's connected to everything
and how it communicates constantly with thebrain, and the research is just so
robust in that area. So whatlifestyle factors should people pay attention to if
they're experiencing anxiety. Well, likeI said, the eating schedule is a
(21:48):
significant one. Sleep schedule is anotherthing that people often kind of just take
for granted or they think it doesn'treally matter, but it matters. So
much. Having enough sleep is huge. Protecting your sleep schedules so that you
go to beout at a reasonable timeand just get as much sleep as you
can. Exercise is a huge factoras well, and you know, you
(22:10):
can incorporate specific anxiety reducing types ofexercise, and for some people that's like
vigorous exercise and that helps them.For other people it's more calming, gentle
exercise, so you can kind oflisten to your body and figure out what
helps you best. Another factor,which I don't know if people would consider
this lifestyle, but I think ofit basically as lifestyle is social connections.
(22:33):
You know, having healthy social connectionsand also having a healthy spiritual life.
And that doesn't necessarily mean like areligion, but tapping into whatever helps you
feel connected to more of like ahigher sense of purpose or meaning in your
life. So in some cases thatmight be volunteering in your community, or
(22:56):
it could be even connecting to naturelike gardening or hiking, or it could
be a meta citation practice. Havingsome sort of good self care, you
know that includes a sense of mind, body, and spirit, I think
is really important. Yeah, it'sso cool that you mentioned social connection and
connection because doctor Alschuler and I aregoing to do an entire show next Tuesday
(23:18):
on the power of connection and thehealth benefits of connection. There's some new
research that's just fascinating in this area. So yeah, I'm glad that you
mentioned that. So let's stick withmind body strategies. I know as a
naturopathic physician, that's a part ofyour toolbox and you and something that you
focus on. So what mind bodystrategies do you discuss with your patients who
(23:41):
are experiencing anxiety And do you havefavorites? I know that there's a few
to choose from. I have somany different different favorites at different times.
One of one of my favorites thatI've recently been recommending a lot is called
rain are ai N. It's ameditation or mindfulness kind of strategy that was
(24:06):
developed by a meditation teacher named TaraBrock and it stands for Recognize, accept,
Investigate and nurture And it's the ideaof basically just practicing mindfulness, mindful
awareness, and self compassion. Soyou recognize what you're experiencing and then you
(24:26):
allow and accept the AA can beallowed or accept allow yourself to really experience
it without shoving it away or tellingyourself to stop feeling anxiety. You know
it shouldn't be feeling that way ifyou just allow yourself, yes, I'm
feeling this anxiety, accept it.You know it's hard to do, but
(24:47):
if you can just be present toit and then investigate why am I feeling
this way? What is this feeling? Kind of trying to tell me or
what do I what do I needright now? And then nurture give yourself
what you need, you know,do I need a hug, Do I
need some quiet time, some justme time? Do I need a vacation?
(25:11):
What do I need to ask for? Do I need you know,
whatever it is in that moment?Do I just need to take a breath?
You know? So anyway, that'sone of my favorites. I love
it. I'm going to look thatup doctor payment because I have not heard
about rain and that's like right upmy alley. I love it. It's
great. Another another one that's reallysimple and is more of a somatic technique,
(25:36):
meaning like a body anxiety reduction techniqueis a butterfly hug or the butterfly
tapping technique, where you cross yourhands across your chest and you put your
hands on the opposite shoulders and thenyou tap your hand on each shoulder,
alternating left right, left, right, about one tap per second. And
(26:00):
the idea with this, it's calledbilateral stimulation, and that helps to regulate
the nervous system by activating both hemispheresof the brain alternating back and forth.
And this increases certain neurotransmitters in thebrain like serotonin, endopamine. It's very
regulating and it can help a lotwith anxiety, and it's very helpful.
(26:23):
I find if somebody is in astate of overwhelm, like panicky anxiety,
sometimes they can't think through a processlike that rain technique. They're too overwhelmed,
they can't even think, and sodoing something like the butterfly tapping,
especially if you incorporate just breathing withthat, maybe you know, breathing along
with the tapping and kind of countingyour breaths, that is often simple enough
(26:48):
that you can do it without havingto think through a process. So that's
one of my favorites. Another oneis a grounding technique called the five four
three two one technique, which isyou this is helpful if you're really in
your head and you're overwhelmed with justtoo many thoughts or you're feeling really overstimulated.
You can look around the room,name in your head five things you
(27:12):
can see, and then name fourthings you can hear, and then three
things you can feel, two thingsyou can smell, and one thing you
can taste. And by grounding yourselfinto your senses, you can be more
present in the moment, and itcan help to reduce that kind of overthinking
(27:34):
about the future or about the past. Wow, that's great. I love
these. I think that these areperfect, and I think that I could
see where they would help. Andunfortunately we're almost out of time, but
I would where could people find outmore about you and your work? Do
you have a website that you'd liketo share with us? Sure? Yeah,
(27:55):
So I work at Integrative Mental HealthCenter and our website is i am
HCAZ dot com and so that hasall the information about our practice, about
me and my coworkers there, andwe have tons of information about what we
do. So I would be happyto help. We offer a free fifteen
(28:17):
minute film consultation as well if youjust want to learn more. And so,
yeah, we're happy to be hereto help. Yeah, so that's
I am HCAZ dot com. Checkit out. Thanks again, doctor Payman
for this important conversation. You're sowelcome. Well that wraps up this episode
of five to Thrive Live once again. I'd like to thank our sponsors n
FH, the professional supplement Line bridgingthe gap between nutraceuticals and evidence based medicine.
(28:44):
Immuse post biotic to give your immunesystem that extra boost, Cognizan Citicola
to help enhance memory, focus andattention. And doctor ohre is Award winning
shelf Stable probiotic. Maybe experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to
thrive. Everyone, have a greatnight. Siscamp Lois copy Lonski, baby
(29:07):
good good lad the state ach thecity is fun of strips, God,
love in life.
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:43):
Carolyn Gazilla and I co host theshow with my good friend, doctor Lisa
Olschuler. So are you feeling anxiousthese days? I know I am,
But what can we do about ouranxiety? We'll find out in today's show.
But first I'd like to thank oursponsors, beginning with NFH, an
innovative dietary supplement manufacturer that uses anevidence based approach to creating dietary supplements for
(01:07):
integrative healthcare professionals. If you wanthigh quality dietary supplements, ask your integrative
practitioner about NFH products so you canalso find more information at NFH dot CAA
immuse is a unique, patented postbiotic that gives your immune system a key
advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient inmany immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for
ammuse on the label or go toammusehealth dot com for more information. Also
(01:32):
cognizance citicoline, which is nature's wayof keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing
on all cylinders. If you're lookingfor a way to enhance your brain function
including memory, focus, and attention, look for Cognizant on the label or
go to cognizan dot com for moreinformation. And doctor Oheres Probiotics. It's
a best selling probiotic for more thanthirty years. It contains twelve prootic strains
(01:53):
that are shelf stable, so norefrigeration is required because of a unique three
year fermentation process. Very effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira probiotics dot
com. With me today is mentalhealth expert doctor Tarah Payman, who is
the clinical director of the Integrated MentalHealth Center in Scottsdale, Arizona. She
(02:14):
specializes in a variety of mental healthissues and is a certified clinical trauma professional.
She is also the vice president ofthe Psychiatric Association of Naturopathic Physicians.
Doctor Payman, Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here. Solet's just dive right in. How big
of a problem is anxiety? Dowe have any statistics. Oh sure,
(02:38):
so well, anxiety is extremely common. It's actually the most common mental health
condition in the United States. Sowhen you were saying earlier, you know
you've been feeling anxious, many otherpeople have been feeling anxious as well.
In fact, about thirty percent ofAmerican adults have had a significant level of
(02:59):
anxiety in their lifetime, enough tocause impairment in their ability to function at
times. And so, you know, even though many people feel alone in
their experience of anxiety, they think, oh, I must be you know,
the only one who goes through this, and I and there's something wrong
with me. In fact, ifyou're in a group of people, chances
are that one in three people inthat room have also experienced similar symptoms.
(03:23):
So you're not at all alone.Yeah, that's such a good point,
because sometimes we can get isolated inour feelings of anxiety, and that causes
us not to get the help thatwe need. So it's a really good
point. How does conventional medicine typicallytreat anxiety? So conventional medicine can treat
(03:44):
anxiety, sometimes very effectively. Thereare different types of anxiety medications, different
classes of medications. Some of themthe most commonly used ones are SSRI medication
like fluoxetine, et cetera. Thosetypes of medications are sometimes very effective for
(04:05):
some people. Sometimes they're not effective, and in other cases they can cause
some side effects. They can alsotake a little bit of time to work.
There are other types of medications likebenzodiazepine medications. Those can help very
rapidly to reduce anxiety, but theyhave some downsides potentially as well. Yeah,
(04:30):
let's talk about those downsides. Whatare some of the downsides specifically when
it comes to the conventional strategy,which you're saying basically relies on a pharmaceutical
approach. Yeah, so the pharmaceuticalsto treat anxiety. When I was talking
about the benzodiazepine class of anxiety medications, those are there's a lot of different
(04:55):
ones, but they're all within thatsame class. An example would be like
raz apam, kloonazipam. Those typesof medications can be very effective immediately in
many cases for reducing the distress thata person is feeling. And yet the
downside is that they can be veryaddictive because they work really rapidly to reduce
(05:19):
the negative effects of the anxiety conditionor panic attacks. They can be so
effective, but then they wear offreally quickly and the anxiety floods back,
and then the person needs to takeit again, and then it floods back
again, and then they often willneed more and more and more, and
(05:39):
it can actually turn into a trueaddiction, or at least if it's not
a true addiction, with cravings andaddictive patterns, there can be a physical
dependency that the person often develops whenthey utilize these benzodiazepine medications over a period
of more than two or three weeks. And so when you're treating something,
(06:02):
especially a chronic anxiety condition, it'soften not recommended to utilize benzodiazepines when it
comes to other medication options like SSRIor s nrII those are types of different
types of anti anxiety prescription medications.It's a specific class. So within those
(06:24):
are like I mentioned fuluoxetine, ctalpram, scetalopram, those are just different names
of anti anxiety medications that are it'sthose the same ones are also used to
treat depression in many cases, sothey can be helpful. The downsides or
that sometimes they don't work. Theycan also take two to four weeks to
(06:46):
start working, So if you're goingthrough a really stressful experience, sometimes they
won't even kick in until after thatexperience has already been going on for several
weeks. Some other downsides are theycan cause waking. They can also affect
your libido and cause low libido ora sexual dysfunction. They can also cause
(07:06):
fatigue or an emotional numbing sort ofexperience where instead of like, you may
not feel as anxious, but thensometimes you can't feel joy either, or
you can't really feel anything, andso that's often not a very pleasant experience.
Yeah. I mean, given thefact that these are kind of hit
and miss and that the side effectprofile is pretty extensive, it seems like
(07:30):
it would be a good idea tomaybe look at other strategies before resorting to
some of these pharmaceuticals. And Iknow, as a naturopathic physician who specializes
in mental health, you use anatural approach. So how is your approach
different from the conventional approach. Well, one way that it's different is that
(07:54):
we have a lot more options ofthings that we can utilize, such as
different natural these homeopathic medicines, acupuncture, cranio sacral therapy, different herbal medicines
and nutritional supplements. Dietary changes sometimescan be helpful in certain cases. Mindfulness
(08:15):
practices, we can incorporate so manythings. As a naturopathic doctor, I'm
really I'm trained both to understand theconventional and be able to prescribe the conventional
medicines if they are absolutely necessary,but I also am trained to be able
to offer a whole host of naturalalternatives that or you know, I say
(08:39):
alternatives, but in fact, sometimesmany of my patients come in to my
practice already taking prescription medications, andsometimes those medications are helping in some ways,
and they don't want to necessarily stopthem altogether, but they want to
add something else to help improve theoverall sort of outcomes and help them,
(09:03):
you know, reduce the symptoms thatthey're experiencing because they're getting partial improvement from
the conventional medicines, and so wecan offer a lot of different options to
help complement or possibly use instead ofthe conventional options. Yeah. I think
this is a really good point toemphasize, because the naturopathic approach is not
(09:26):
an either or. You're not saying, oh, stop taking your meds.
What you're doing is you're expanding,and when somebody works with a naturopathic physician
who's trained in mental health, thatdoctor knows about contry indications, what's safe,
what's not safe, and you know, what can be given with a
(09:46):
medication, and it's complex, youknow. So I think working with a
naturopath like yourself is pretty critical,right, Yeah, I think it's quite
helpful and in some cases really important, you know, especially if somebody is
taking a lot of or even youknow, even one or two prescription medications,
(10:09):
or if they have a chronic conditionof anxiety that they consult with a
well trained, well versed doctor,you know, a natropathic doctor, versus
trying, you know, rather thantrying to do it on your own,
which can have its risks and itsdownsides. And it's really stressful to figure
this stuff out on your own.You know, there's so much information out
(10:31):
there. It's there's a lot ofa lot of books and podcasts and you
know, YouTube videos, and there'sso many opinions and fads and things,
you know, people telling you youhave to try this or this is the
best diet or this is the bestsupplement, and it's hard to know what
to believe, and so it's reallyimportant to be able to have an expert
(10:52):
who can guide you, you know, hold your hand through the whole process
and make sure that you do itsafely. Yeah. I agree. So
let's dig in. You mentioned alot of tools in your toolbox, and
I want to highlight some of those. You know, some of the natural
strategies, and you already mentioned thatthe medications can take weeks to kick in,
(11:13):
and some of the natural strategies likediet and lifetime lifestyle, which we're
going to talk about, also taketime. So if you ever use dietary
supplements to help provide symptom relief asthe other strategies are kicking in, and
if you do, what are someof your go to new chants and herbs
that might help with the symptoms ofanxiety and might help quickly. Yeah,
(11:35):
absolutely, so I have so manyoptions and lots of different favorites. One
of the things I do use withjust about everybody is an individualized homeopathic remedy.
And I won't get too detailed intothat because it's there's not one homeopathic
medicine that's used, you know,for everybody with anxiety. It's very individualized
(12:00):
to each particular patient. So butthat is a big part of what I
find to be helpful. And oftenit can work really quickly, like with
in some cases it can work withina day or sometimes even with you know,
within a few days. It canmake a big difference. So that's
something that I find helpful as faras can I stop you once after payment,
(12:22):
because this is really important. Sowhat you're talking about with a home
an individualized homeopathic remedy that is prescribedby someone with the knowledge. You're not
talking about going to the health foodstore and picking up arnica. You know,
you know what I mean you're talkingabout. And I've actually gone through
the process right with the trained homeopath. It's extensive, it's deep, and
(12:43):
it's really valuable. And so thisis very different than than you know,
buying article it is. It's verydifferent even than you know if you go
to the health food store. Thething about homeopathic medicines is their FDA regulated
and the companies who make them putan indication for use on the label,
(13:05):
and that indication for use is justone of many symptoms that the homeopathic medicine
may be able to treat. Andsome of those indications for use are anxiety
and so it'll say anxiety, anticipationanxiety or apprehension or stage fright or clusterrophobia
(13:26):
or something like that. Some ofthose remedies actually say that in the vials
that you could find at a healthfood store. And so sometimes I'll get
a patient coming to me saying,oh, I've tried different homopathic medicines and
they don't work for me. Andthen I'll ask them of what did you
try And did you actually see atrained, you know, homeopathic expert in
(13:48):
this or did you just kind ofgo by what you read on the label.
And the thing about homeopathic medicine is, as you said, it goes
really deep into a really comprehensive lookat not just you know, are you
diagnosed with anxiety, but what areall of the ins and outs of how
you experience that, What types ofthoughts go through your head? What does
(14:11):
it feel like in your body?Do you tend to, you know,
get hot fleshes with anxiety? Doyou tend to get restless or do you
freeze? And do you want companyor do you need to be alone?
Et cetera. All of these detailsmake your case unique and and you know,
different from the next person who maycome in with the exactame diagnosis,
(14:31):
and so it's based on those uniquedetails that I can find a homeopathic medicine
that really matches you, and thenthat can provide a lot of relief.
So that's my favorite way to treatpeople because it also truly treats a deeper
underlying cause rather than just kind ofband dating. But if we do,
you know, I don't. I'mnot opposed to band aids. Sometimes we
(14:54):
need them, right if we're reallysuffering. And so as far as treatments
that can be just sort of quickfixes without the downsides of the conventional,
you know, like the addictive medications. One of my favorites is elthionine,
which is a natural supplement. It'sactually a constituent that's found in green tea,
(15:15):
and it's the part of green teathat causes like a zen sort of
feeling. So it reduces cortisol andit helps with improving balance of serotonin and
dopamine. It helps you feel kindof like this calm, relaxed feeling,
and yet you can still focus andyou still feel alert. So that's a
really nice option that I use witha lot of people. I've also used
(15:37):
passionflower extract, sometimes kava. SometimesI'll use lemon balm. Lemon balm is
a really nice option for people thathave anxiety and digestive problems. Because lemon
balm is an herbal, it's anherbal remedy. It's very very safe.
It is used for irritable bells ornausea, and so it has that nice
(16:03):
benefit of kind of calming the wholenervous system in the gut as well as
calming the brain. So that's anice kind of link. There are a
lot of people with anxiety also feeltheir kind of a stomach nervousness, and
so lemon volm is a nice optionfor those folks. I also use magnesium.
I sometimes use GABBA and n acetylcysteine or NAC is another nutritional supplement
(16:30):
that I find to be helpful,especially if somebody has anxiety with an obsessive
kind of quality or anxiety and OCD. Yeah, these are great, and
some of these will help with sleep, Like I take alfaianine at night before.
Yes, and I combined myl withmagnesium. Yeah, absolutely, that
can be very helpful. Yeah.Okay, well let's switch gears and talk
(16:52):
a little bit about diet. Sohow can diet impact anxiety, either positively
or negatively. You get to choosewhat you'd like to focus on. Well,
maybe I'll talk a little bit aboutboth. So one of the ways
that diet can influence anxiety is it'sjust what we eat impacts our gut health,
(17:14):
and our gut is connected to ourbrain. There's so much research that's
coming out now about the gut brainconnection, and so how we nourish our
body and the kinds of foods thatwe put into our digestive system not only
affects us in terms of you know, whether we're nutritionally deficient or nutritionally abundant,
(17:37):
or you know, whether we havethe right type of nutrients to balance
our brain health, but it alsosignificantly impacts our gut health. So,
for example, if we eat alot of inflammatory foods, like if we
go out to a restaurant and wehave a burger in French fries, I'm
not opposed to eating a burger inFrench fries, and it's also a pretty
inflammatory meal. So a lot ofthe time that goes into the body and
(18:02):
it creates a pretty inflamed state inthe stomach and in the intestines and then
when the intestines are inflamed, there'san immune reaction that happens where everything gets
kind of irritated in the whole gut. And then when your gut is irritated,
your body produces this inflammation kind ofstate, and when your gut is
(18:25):
inflamed, it actually affects your wholenervous system, and your nervous system becomes
more irritated. There's a lot ofresearch that's showing this connection now. So
then there's often a relationship that peopledon't necessarily always tune into that's present in
many cases where somebody eats something andthen their gut gets irritated and then they
(18:51):
get anxious. You know, laterthat day or even within a few minutes
or sometimes within a few hours ofconsuming that meal, they'll start to not
feel good. Sometimes they'll feel kindof sluggish and anxious at the same time,
tired and anxious at the same time, headachey and anxious at the same
time. Those are all really commonsigns that you might be allergic or sensitive
(19:12):
or just inflamed from what you justeat. So that's a connection. There's
also and so on the flip sideof that, if you eat anti inflammatory
foods or foods that are very nutritionallydense, then you can help improve your
gut health and help reduce the riskof creating that inflamed sort of state in
(19:34):
your digestive system, and thus yourbrain health can also improve. The other
factor I really want to mention isblood sugar regulation. So when it comes
to diet, if you're eating ina really erratic way, or you're eating
let's say, you know, youwake up in the morning and you have
a cup of coffee and then youdon't eat anything for four hours, and
(19:56):
then you have a donut, andthen you don't eat anything for you know,
an hour, and then you eatsomething, you know, chips or
some kind of you know, notvery nutritious meal. Then your blood sugar
is going to be going through likedrops and spikes. And when you have
(20:17):
low blood sugar and then high bloodsugar, you are so much more likely
to have anxiety. There's a verystrong correlation between hypoglycemia, low blood sugar,
and increased levels of anxiety. Whenyour blood sugar drops, your stress
hormones go way up, and youcan get a surge of adrenaline that tells
(20:40):
your body basically puts your body intoa fight or flight state, which feels
exactly like an anxiety attack, butin fact it's actually a low blood sugar
attack, so to speak. Soit's something to just really be aware of
and you can you can check forthis, you know, if you tend
to have low blood sugar, it'ssomething that your doctor can test for.
(21:03):
The first thing to do is justtry. You know, maybe you need
help with regulating your diet or ifyou notice that you know, you're not
eating consistent meals or your meals aresort of erratic. If you can work
on regulating your meal times, thatcan make a huge difference for a lot
of people with regulating and reducing anxiety. Yeah, it's such a good point.
(21:25):
I'm obsessed with the gut and themicrobiome and how it's connected to everything
and how it communicates constantly with thebrain, and the research is just so
robust in that area. So whatlifestyle factors should people pay attention to if
they're experiencing anxiety. Well, likeI said, the eating schedule is a
(21:48):
significant one. Sleep schedule is anotherthing that people often kind of just take
for granted or they think it doesn'treally matter, but it matters. So
much. Having enough sleep is huge. Protecting your sleep schedules so that you
go to beout at a reasonable timeand just get as much sleep as you
can. Exercise is a huge factoras well, and you know, you
(22:10):
can incorporate specific anxiety reducing types ofexercise, and for some people that's like
vigorous exercise and that helps them.For other people it's more calming, gentle
exercise, so you can kind oflisten to your body and figure out what
helps you best. Another factor,which I don't know if people would consider
this lifestyle, but I think ofit basically as lifestyle is social connections.
(22:33):
You know, having healthy social connectionsand also having a healthy spiritual life.
And that doesn't necessarily mean like areligion, but tapping into whatever helps you
feel connected to more of like ahigher sense of purpose or meaning in your
life. So in some cases thatmight be volunteering in your community, or
(22:56):
it could be even connecting to naturelike gardening or hiking, or it could
be a meta citation practice. Havingsome sort of good self care, you
know that includes a sense of mind, body, and spirit, I think
is really important. Yeah, it'sso cool that you mentioned social connection and
connection because doctor Alschuler and I aregoing to do an entire show next Tuesday
(23:18):
on the power of connection and thehealth benefits of connection. There's some new
research that's just fascinating in this area. So yeah, I'm glad that you
mentioned that. So let's stick withmind body strategies. I know as a
naturopathic physician, that's a part ofyour toolbox and you and something that you
focus on. So what mind bodystrategies do you discuss with your patients who
(23:41):
are experiencing anxiety And do you havefavorites? I know that there's a few
to choose from. I have somany different different favorites at different times.
One of one of my favorites thatI've recently been recommending a lot is called
rain are ai N. It's ameditation or mindfulness kind of strategy that was
(24:06):
developed by a meditation teacher named TaraBrock and it stands for Recognize, accept,
Investigate and nurture And it's the ideaof basically just practicing mindfulness, mindful
awareness, and self compassion. Soyou recognize what you're experiencing and then you
(24:26):
allow and accept the AA can beallowed or accept allow yourself to really experience
it without shoving it away or tellingyourself to stop feeling anxiety. You know
it shouldn't be feeling that way ifyou just allow yourself, yes, I'm
feeling this anxiety, accept it.You know it's hard to do, but
(24:47):
if you can just be present toit and then investigate why am I feeling
this way? What is this feeling? Kind of trying to tell me or
what do I what do I needright now? And then nurture give yourself
what you need, you know,do I need a hug, Do I
need some quiet time, some justme time? Do I need a vacation?
(25:11):
What do I need to ask for? Do I need you know,
whatever it is in that moment?Do I just need to take a breath?
You know? So anyway, that'sone of my favorites. I love
it. I'm going to look thatup doctor payment because I have not heard
about rain and that's like right upmy alley. I love it. It's
great. Another another one that's reallysimple and is more of a somatic technique,
(25:36):
meaning like a body anxiety reduction techniqueis a butterfly hug or the butterfly
tapping technique, where you cross yourhands across your chest and you put your
hands on the opposite shoulders and thenyou tap your hand on each shoulder,
alternating left right, left, right, about one tap per second. And
(26:00):
the idea with this, it's calledbilateral stimulation, and that helps to regulate
the nervous system by activating both hemispheresof the brain alternating back and forth.
And this increases certain neurotransmitters in thebrain like serotonin, endopamine. It's very
regulating and it can help a lotwith anxiety, and it's very helpful.
(26:23):
I find if somebody is in astate of overwhelm, like panicky anxiety,
sometimes they can't think through a processlike that rain technique. They're too overwhelmed,
they can't even think, and sodoing something like the butterfly tapping,
especially if you incorporate just breathing withthat, maybe you know, breathing along
with the tapping and kind of countingyour breaths, that is often simple enough
(26:48):
that you can do it without havingto think through a process. So that's
one of my favorites. Another oneis a grounding technique called the five four
three two one technique, which isyou this is helpful if you're really in
your head and you're overwhelmed with justtoo many thoughts or you're feeling really overstimulated.
You can look around the room,name in your head five things you
(27:12):
can see, and then name fourthings you can hear, and then three
things you can feel, two thingsyou can smell, and one thing you
can taste. And by grounding yourselfinto your senses, you can be more
present in the moment, and itcan help to reduce that kind of overthinking
(27:34):
about the future or about the past. Wow, that's great. I love
these. I think that these areperfect, and I think that I could
see where they would help. Andunfortunately we're almost out of time, but
I would where could people find outmore about you and your work? Do
you have a website that you'd liketo share with us? Sure? Yeah,
(27:55):
So I work at Integrative Mental HealthCenter and our website is i am
HCAZ dot com and so that hasall the information about our practice, about
me and my coworkers there, andwe have tons of information about what we
do. So I would be happyto help. We offer a free fifteen
(28:17):
minute film consultation as well if youjust want to learn more. And so,
yeah, we're happy to be hereto help. Yeah, so that's
I am HCAZ dot com. Checkit out. Thanks again, doctor Payman
for this important conversation. You're sowelcome. Well that wraps up this episode
of five to Thrive Live once again. I'd like to thank our sponsors n
FH, the professional supplement Line bridgingthe gap between nutraceuticals and evidence based medicine.
(28:44):
Immuse post biotic to give your immunesystem that extra boost, Cognizan Citicola
to help enhance memory, focus andattention. And doctor ohre is Award winning
shelf Stable probiotic. Maybe experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to
thrive. Everyone, have a greatnight. Siscamp Lois copy Lonski, baby
(29:07):
good good lad the state ach thecity is fun of strips, God,
love in life.
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