May 6, 2025 • 28 mins
On this show, Karolyn talks with highly respected naturopathic oncologist Dr. Jen Green, who is the creator of BeLoved Guided Imagery for Cancer. Dr. Green will explain how guided imagery can help people with cancer and describe the research associated with this powerful healing tool. If you're curious to learn more about guided imagery, you won't want to miss this show!
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I co host this show with my
good friend doctor lise Al Schuler. Today our topic is
guided imagery and positive Affirmations, which I have used in
my own healing journey. So this topic is near and
dear to me and I have the perfect expert to
(01:02):
discuss this topic. Doctor Jengreen, is not only one of
my favorite naturopathic oncologists that I have known for many years,
she is also a cancer survivor and the creator of
Beloved Guided Imagery for Cancer. She is also the research
director for no Oncology dot org, the Knowledge in Integrative
Oncology website, and a clinician with Mtira Integrative Clinic. But
(01:26):
before we dive in, I'd like to thank our sponsors.
Beginning with Cetria, a patented form of glutathione clinically proven
to raise blood glutethione levels. Glutathione is the mastrant to
accident and the body's primary defense against free radicals. It
also helps support respiratory health. For more information, visit Cetria
Glutathione dot com. Also cognizance citicoline, which is nature's way
(01:49):
of keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing on all cylinders.
If you're looking for a way to enhance your brain function,
including memory, focus, and attention, look for cognizant on the
label or go to Conison dot com for more information.
Prothriver's Wellness Brain is a product that contains Cognizant as
well as other brain supporting nutrients and herbs. You can
(02:09):
find Prothriver's Wellness Brain online at pureformulas dot com. There's
also Prothriver's Wellness Sleep, which combines higher nose melatonin, and
other sleep supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers. You
can find Prothriver's Wellness Sleep also at pureformulas dot com
and doctor Ohere is Probiotics. It's a best selling probiotic
(02:30):
for more than thirty years. It contains twelve probiotic strains
that are shelf stable, so no refrigeration is required. Because
of a unique three year fermentation process. It's a very
effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Oheer probiotics dot com.
Doctor Green, welcome and thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Thank you so much for having me, Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I know it's been a while, but I'm so excited
about this topic, and I know you are too. But
let's start with the base. What is guided imagery.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
So guided imagery is an audio track, So it's listening
to words that are guiding you through an experience, almost
always beginning with a relaxation section, So bringing ourselves into
the relaxation response, either using the breath or using progressive
(03:25):
muscle relaxation or a combination of both. And then you know,
instead of imagining the worst possible outcomes, which is what
our anxiety brain does, it's imagining the best possible outcomes,
the outcomes that we're looking to achieve. So it's harnessing
the power of the unconscious. It's bringing into alignment our
(03:47):
unconscious and our conscious mind to direct ourselves where we
want to go.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, and we're also going to be such a great explanation,
by the way, and we're also going to be talking
about affirmation, so speak a little about that. What are affirmations.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, so affirmations are adjacent are similar to guided imagery.
In guided imagery, the language is you language, so you
picture yourself walking down a set of stairs. With each step,
you know that kind of language, whereas with affirmations, it's
eye statements, so I am capable of facing the challenges
(04:26):
ahead of me those kinds of statements. Another key difference
between affirmations and guided imagery is affirmations won't put you
into a semi hypnotic state first, so you can listen
to them while you're driving, or while you're you know,
cooking dinner or doing other things. You can just have
them playing passively in the background, so that your unconscious
(04:47):
is hearing them and you don't need to even pay
it much mind. To be honest, although you can also
listen to affirmations and repeat it in your own mind
to strengthen that message, whereas with guided imagery you don't
want to do that when you're driving. You don't want
to put yourself in a semi hypnotic state when your
attention needs to be somewhere specific.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Absolutely, I would agree. Is guided imagery a form of meditation.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
It's a separate category, But I would say, it's a
little more accessible than general meditation, So emptying the mind
is not always an easy task, whereas giving the mind
somewhere to focus, especially in a positive direction, is I
find often more accessible for people, which is why bother
(05:35):
to record an album for guided imagery. Not that meditation
isn't incredibly valuable, but it's really a separate skill. And
when you're dealing either with a new diagnosis or in
the thick of treatment and whatnot, the sort of stresses
of cancer, it is hard to learn a brand new
skill like meditation if you had a previous meditation practice, absolutely,
(05:56):
but it can be a little bit tricky to learn
a whole new skill. Where is guided imagery I think
of as a little bit lower hanging fruit because it's
more accessible to people. It's easier to kind of pop
in and pop out and get sort of immediate benefit
from it and not get Perhaps there aren't the stumbling
blocks that there are with meditation. Let's say that.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I would agree with you, and I love the
word accessible. You know, when I was healing, I did
guided imagery first and then I did move into meditation,
so I would I would agree. I think guided imagery
is a little bit easier. As you mentioned. Now, as
a physician and a naturopathic oncologist, why are you so
(06:39):
passionate about this specific healing tool. What interests you the
most about guided imagery?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, that is a great question. The reason why it
sort of pops up to the top of the pile
for me because there are many mind body interventions is
a few factors. The accessibility, I'll return to that. So
it's free or almost free. I mean my album is
free and lots of other ones are free, so I
would say that's very accessible to cancer patients. There's no
(07:08):
financial burden. It is unlikely to do harm. You know,
we'd have to work really hard to try and find
a harm. Obviously, you want to be mindful that the
messages you're giving yourself or messages you agree with. But
other than that, you don't have a risk of harm
or interact with medication or that sort of thing. And
(07:32):
it's bringing you The last piece I would say is
it's bringing you in a closer relationship with yourself. It's
strengthening this alliance that you have with your own belief system,
your own internal resources. It strengthens my experience anyways of
receipt of doing guided imagery myself. It's just that it
strengthened me in ways that I didn't expect it too.
(07:58):
It was more effective than I thought it would be
in the cancer process. And you know, we were speaking
of no oncology. We're always trying to match the level
of evidence to the level of risk. So in other words,
and Donald Abrams, doctor Donald Abrams, the integrated oncologist, has
pioneered this in an article he has hosted on Cancer Choices,
(08:18):
which is a wonderful website, and he talks about how
the level of risk should equal the level of evidence,
and with guided imagery, the risk is so so low.
You know, how much evidence do we even really need?
And yet there are seven randomized control trials in cancer
(08:39):
patients showing that guided imagery all, you know, all well
constructed studies showing that guided imagery really impacts anxiety and
depression and cancer patients. And then some of the more
recent trials have shown that it also helps with chemotherapy
induce nausea and vomiting. It improves health related quality of life,
which is sort of the big picture outcome that we
(09:01):
look at in populations, and these really tangible improvements in mood,
in anxiety and depression are valuable in and of themselves, Carolyn,
But also, you know, one of the things I don't
think we talk about enough of, or is a gap
in our cancer care, is addressing distress in people living
(09:24):
with cancer and newly diagnosed and all of the above,
because it also affects our immune system. Our inflammation. Anxiety
and depression are not good for our health and we
know that, and we know that it's going to impact
cancer outcomes as well. So to me, guided imagery is
just the lowest hanging fruit. Why would we not include
(09:46):
this in part of our routine care? Because we have
strong evidence that it is effective, there isn't a risk
to the patient to do it, there isn't a financial burden,
and it's helping to address this really unmet need of
helping support people emotionally through a very distressing time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I'm so glad that you're talking about the science because
I know that you're very much a science person and
evidence is important. I mean, seven randomized clinical trials, that's
the gold standard. So that's surprising, But do we know
how it works? Like oftentimes when we look at these studies,
we want to look at mechanisms of action and we
want to understand how it works. Do we know that
(10:28):
about guided imagery or do we just know that it works? Yeah,
a little bit of both. So guided imagery because it.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Incorporates a relaxation aspect, we know it's going to impact
our physiology to calm our nervous system. So we know
that it reduces cord is all for example, which is
you know, our chronic stress hormone. That is definitely a
goal of most of ours to reduce our cordisol levels.
But then it gets so there's broad effects that you
can assume of all guided imagery. But what's interesting is
(10:57):
to look at some of the research, for example, on
the affect on the immune system and how this was
a breast cancer trial. Women who vividly could picture their
natural killer cells actually had higher levels of natural killer
cells in the blood measurably and higher levels of natural
killer cell activity. So you can actually strive for a
(11:21):
specific health outcome, and by rehearsing it in our minds
and by picturing it very vividly, because our imaginations are powerful,
we can impact our physiology in these very specific ways.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, so it has physical benefits It's interesting because when
I was recovering from my ovarian cancer, I had a
friend who was a runner, and she told me, you know,
I think about you every time I run, and I
visualize that with every step my foot is crushing your
cancer cells. Oh wow, yeah, I thought, Wow, that's a
(11:59):
good friend. But this is this is you know how
how as you mentioned our imagination and how how guided
imagery works, can you describe one of your favorite guided
imagery tracks that you created? Can you take us through?
(12:19):
What what is it like?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah? I mean actually my favorite one. I didn't even uh,
I'm not in love with the title. And I love
the track because I never would have thought of it
if I hadn't gone through cancer myself. So that the
track is called Receiving Spiritual Healing. But what it's really
about it and it starts with broader healing, connecting with nature,
(12:43):
receiving healing from there, connecting with you know, moving up
to higher levels of energy and into the spiritual realm
to receive healing. But you realize one realizes that you've
got a team of people praying for you, exactly like
your friend with crushing cancer. These people are directing thoughts
(13:07):
sometimes even on a daily basis dedicated towards your healing,
and so we don't often pause to receive those prayers
to receive those Yeah, so that guided imagery is about
creating space, you know, fourteen minutes in the day or
in the week, to take a moment to really take
(13:29):
in all of the love and spiritual healing that is
being directed to you in this distressing time, and that
we can sort of complete the circuit, is how I
think of it. And by actually taking time to soak
in the energy that's being sent your way to get
(13:52):
the full benefit of it.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I love that. And you know what popped into my
head when you were talking about that. It also courage
is the sense of gratitude, Like you're thinking about all
these people who are you know, you're and you're opening
up to receive their healing energy and there and it
makes me feel such gratitude that you are open to
that and receiving that. And I love it, And I'm
(14:16):
glad that you mentioned the length. So typically, so this
one is fourteen minutes. Typically, how long are they?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I mean mine I kept all around the fifteen minute mark.
The sleep one is maybe nineteen minutes, but that's mostly
because it has a very slow fade out with the music.
I did it over theda wave music to sort of
again encourage that hypnotic state. I love theta music, but
(14:47):
I deliberately kept the visualization short because our attention span
is not super long when we're going through treatment. So
there's a track for surgery, there's a track for chemotherapy,
there's a track for or radiation. There's a sleep on
the sleep one actually is the only one that doesn't
have any mention of cancer. There's a series of affirmations,
(15:09):
and the affirmations are connected. There is a focus on
self compassion and affirmations, but the affirmations are also connected
to an article I had written on managing mindset in cancer,
which looks at different parts of ourselves that come to
bear like the warrior or the stoic, these different aspects
(15:31):
or ways of coping or parts of ourselves. And so
the affirmations you don't really notice it consciously when you're
going through it, but the affirmations call upon different strengths
within us and different mindsets connected to cancers. So yeah,
(15:53):
that's sort of happening on the background of the affirmations
track is because some people are more in the warrior mindset,
and some people are more in the stoic or some
in the mindfulness mindset, or some more in a spiritual mindset.
Or then there's one I call the er doc mindset,
which is very practical and sort of focused on problem solving.
(16:13):
So all these different parts of us can come to bear.
And so the affirmations deliberately use language to speak to
people who are coping in different ways.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, so give us an example of what some of
the affirmations are.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Oh, great question, I should pull that up. Let me
let me pull that up on my documents because I
can't actually remember.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh I know, but that second, yeah, because I do
want to talk about the be loved guided imagery. And
while you're pulling that up, why did you name it that?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Oh? Beloved?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Uh yeah, love it?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yes, that means so it's a combination of beloved and
be loved. So I I I don't know how it
came to me, but I think one of the lessons,
one of the many lessons that I got out of
going through cancer, was that a being is enough, that
we are inherently worthy, and that being loved is part
(17:14):
of why I were here. You know, I always thought
of myself as being here to love others, but I
didn't get that it was also my job to be
loved and to receive love and support from community through
a hard time like this. So that's that's sort of
where the title of the of the album came from.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, okay, so I've got some I've got some affirmation.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So it's.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Some examples are I embrace myself wholeheartedly and dedicate myself
to being a kind and gentle friend to myself along
this healing journey. I am capable, strong, and naturally resilient.
I can handle whatever comes my way. That's a great one.
(18:03):
I call upon my intention to heal my physical body,
my emotional body, and my spiritual body. I engage my
powerful will to assist me in doing this, and then
I'm going to find one of my favorites. I don't
know why I love it so much, but when I
listen to this myself, this is always one of my favorites.
(18:26):
Like gathering flowers in a meadow, I gather loving, kindness
and self compassion and place them in my body, feeling
them fill my arms and legs, my belly, chest, and head. Ah,
very good.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, I love that. The reason I love that one
is because it also adds in such a such a
wonderful visual you know, So it's not only a really
positive effort, but and I'm a I'm a flower girl
love flowers. So yes, that that is. That is great. Okay,
(19:09):
So what advice do you have for people who've never
tried guided imagery?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
M m hmm. That there is no skill required, uh
that even though people will differ a little bit in
how richly they imagine, So there is you know, some
people are natural writers and and whatnot. That the same
(19:36):
thing that happens which with anxiety, which is imagining something scary,
is a wonderful skill we can harness for our well being,
which is imagining ourselves strong and resilient and capable and
and well equipped. Really that, whether you're a child or
(19:57):
whether you're adult, guided imagery is easy to slip on
because thankfully, as humans, we are naturally imaginative beings.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, we really are, and this takes advantage of that
natural skill that we have.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, you've brought up sports before, and I mean all
of the pretty much all of the professional level sports
people engage in some form of guided imagery as preparation.
They rehearse in their minds, and actually they've done interesting
studies on the brain and what areas light up. And
when people, let's say professional basketball player is visualizing a
(20:43):
game and visualizing what's happening even though their body isn't moving,
the parts in their brain are lighting up connected to that,
so that there is again real activation happening in the body,
real immune activation, or real preparation for surgery when we
visualize these things happening. And it's not just a tool
that professional athletes use, it's a tool that all of
(21:05):
us can use.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, back to my friend who
was jogging and visualizing my cancer cells, do you encourage
caregivers and family members to participate and join in and
do guided imagery with their loved one.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Oh, thank you so much for saying that, because I
will say I do think guided imagery is a wonderful
way to protect against caregiver burnout, which you know is
a very real and yeah and sucky. Yeah, yeah, it's
anyone who's experienced it and just like you know, your
(21:45):
life force kind of getting drained out. So absolutely, because
part of the challenge when you're a caregiver, is it's
very tempting to throw away self care and prioritize another
since needs first, and so carving out even something small
(22:05):
like fourteen minutes is a way to, yeah, be in
allegiance with oneself or to be in that self care
mode where some of the energy is cycling into you
rather than out of you. And there are, I mean,
there's there are a ton of amazing guided imageries out there.
(22:29):
I'm pretty sure that Belaruth Napperstack has a guided imagery
for specifically for caregiver burnout. And I know that I
had many years ago for one of the conferences on
GAMP conferences, I had hired Gail Evo prat Tricolo, who's
does customized guided imagery here in Michigan, to do a
(22:50):
caregiver burnout prevention guided imagery for naturopathic doctors working in oncology.
So yeah, I think there are just much broad applications.
Were really at the tip of the iceberg with the
potential of guided imagery. I'm pretty sure. In one of
your previous episodes, Carolyn, you talked about that guided imagery
(23:12):
study for surgery for breast cancer surgery where they actually saved.
It was I think seven hundred and forty dollars for
every in surgical time for every woman who did guided
imagery and preppery. It was actually was a self hypnosis study,
That's what it was. They did self hypnosis right before surgery.
They and the healthcare system saves so much money per person,
(23:37):
not to mention the benefits of lowering cortisol and helping
the person experience less stress before their surgery.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, I can see a lot of applications. And I'm
so g glad that you brought up caregiver burnout because
I've been on both sides of that equation. I've been
a cancer patient and I've also been a caregiver, and
I can tell tell you that being a caregiver was
far more challenging. I mean, it's one of the most
stressful things that a person can go through. So this
(24:08):
is a great tool be loved or beloved guided imagery.
I mean truly, it's a gift, Doctor Green And the
fact that you're making it available free of charge, it's
very accessible. So where can people find more about a
beloved guided imagery? And you had mentioned that it's free,
(24:32):
Where can they? Where can they find it.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, great, it is. So it's on Amazon Music, it's
on YouTube. It's also on Spotify, and then there's a
sort of landing page on a website Beloved Cancer Support
dot Com backslash Guided Imagery. But whatever people, whatever system
people are on Spotify or YouTube or Amazon, they can
(24:57):
also search d r gen Green or you can search
be Loved Guided Imagery for cancer and either of those
will will bring it right up. And the logos sort
of purplish, and there's an image of mountains that my
daughter had created. It was a whole family affair.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That's nice. I would imagine. I would imagine that creating
something like this was quite healing for yourself as well,
because because it is a gift, you've you've created something
quite special. So for your own personal journey, how did
that feel?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah? I mean, so I recorded an early version of
the affirmations to listen to every day during chemo radiation,
and so I had a chance to sort of listen
and refine over time. And then because I had I
had a net cancer, my voice was very affected by
treatment for a time. And so when I finally got
to get in the studio a few months later and
(25:58):
record it. It just it was deeply, deeply healing on
many levels to use my voice and also to it
was such a wonderful, magical day in the recording studio.
It was, you know, a I was in a very
hypnotic state because I was listening to this staatea wave
music and doing all of these recordings, and the team
(26:21):
that I worked with was so, you know, just beyond wonderful.
And yeah, there's a lot of energy that gets captured
in the voice and in music and in recording that
I hadn't really appreciated before that experience. And that's something
that you do on this podcast that there's so much
(26:42):
that gets communicated about your mood and your smile and
your loving nature and the desire to help. All of
that is also getting communicated in your words on this podcast.
So yeah, just to acknowledge that, and thank you also
for the powerful work that you're doing in supper arding
people on their cancer journey and with their healthcare challenges,
(27:05):
because it makes a difference.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Well, thank you, thank you, and I highly recommend it.
Look it up beloved or Beloved Guided Imagery uh D
r j E N G R e E N dot
com and yeah, check it out. You're gonna love this
guided imagery and the affirmations are wonderful. Doctor Green, thank
you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Oh, thank you for having me, Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Well, that wraps up this episode of five to Thrive
Live once again. I'd like to thank our sponsors pro
Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Formula, Cetria Glutathione the superior glutath ione
to support liver and immune health, Cognizanceticoline to help enhance memory,
focus and attention, and Doctor or Heroes Award winning shelf
Stable Probiotic.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
This has been a great show. May you experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone, have a
great nights.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
S
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I co host this show with my
good friend doctor lise Al Schuler. Today our topic is
guided imagery and positive Affirmations, which I have used in
my own healing journey. So this topic is near and
dear to me and I have the perfect expert to
(01:02):
discuss this topic. Doctor Jengreen, is not only one of
my favorite naturopathic oncologists that I have known for many years,
she is also a cancer survivor and the creator of
Beloved Guided Imagery for Cancer. She is also the research
director for no Oncology dot org, the Knowledge in Integrative
Oncology website, and a clinician with Mtira Integrative Clinic. But
(01:26):
before we dive in, I'd like to thank our sponsors.
Beginning with Cetria, a patented form of glutathione clinically proven
to raise blood glutethione levels. Glutathione is the mastrant to
accident and the body's primary defense against free radicals. It
also helps support respiratory health. For more information, visit Cetria
Glutathione dot com. Also cognizance citicoline, which is nature's way
(01:49):
of keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing on all cylinders.
If you're looking for a way to enhance your brain function,
including memory, focus, and attention, look for cognizant on the
label or go to Conison dot com for more information.
Prothriver's Wellness Brain is a product that contains Cognizant as
well as other brain supporting nutrients and herbs. You can
(02:09):
find Prothriver's Wellness Brain online at pureformulas dot com. There's
also Prothriver's Wellness Sleep, which combines higher nose melatonin, and
other sleep supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers. You
can find Prothriver's Wellness Sleep also at pureformulas dot com
and doctor Ohere is Probiotics. It's a best selling probiotic
(02:30):
for more than thirty years. It contains twelve probiotic strains
that are shelf stable, so no refrigeration is required. Because
of a unique three year fermentation process. It's a very
effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Oheer probiotics dot com.
Doctor Green, welcome and thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Thank you so much for having me, Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I know it's been a while, but I'm so excited
about this topic, and I know you are too. But
let's start with the base. What is guided imagery.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
So guided imagery is an audio track, So it's listening
to words that are guiding you through an experience, almost
always beginning with a relaxation section, So bringing ourselves into
the relaxation response, either using the breath or using progressive
(03:25):
muscle relaxation or a combination of both. And then you know,
instead of imagining the worst possible outcomes, which is what
our anxiety brain does, it's imagining the best possible outcomes,
the outcomes that we're looking to achieve. So it's harnessing
the power of the unconscious. It's bringing into alignment our
(03:47):
unconscious and our conscious mind to direct ourselves where we
want to go.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, and we're also going to be such a great explanation,
by the way, and we're also going to be talking
about affirmation, so speak a little about that. What are affirmations.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, so affirmations are adjacent are similar to guided imagery.
In guided imagery, the language is you language, so you
picture yourself walking down a set of stairs. With each step,
you know that kind of language, whereas with affirmations, it's
eye statements, so I am capable of facing the challenges
(04:26):
ahead of me those kinds of statements. Another key difference
between affirmations and guided imagery is affirmations won't put you
into a semi hypnotic state first, so you can listen
to them while you're driving, or while you're you know,
cooking dinner or doing other things. You can just have
them playing passively in the background, so that your unconscious
(04:47):
is hearing them and you don't need to even pay
it much mind. To be honest, although you can also
listen to affirmations and repeat it in your own mind
to strengthen that message, whereas with guided imagery you don't
want to do that when you're driving. You don't want
to put yourself in a semi hypnotic state when your
attention needs to be somewhere specific.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Absolutely, I would agree. Is guided imagery a form of meditation.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
It's a separate category, But I would say, it's a
little more accessible than general meditation, So emptying the mind
is not always an easy task, whereas giving the mind
somewhere to focus, especially in a positive direction, is I
find often more accessible for people, which is why bother
(05:35):
to record an album for guided imagery. Not that meditation
isn't incredibly valuable, but it's really a separate skill. And
when you're dealing either with a new diagnosis or in
the thick of treatment and whatnot, the sort of stresses
of cancer, it is hard to learn a brand new
skill like meditation if you had a previous meditation practice, absolutely,
(05:56):
but it can be a little bit tricky to learn
a whole new skill. Where is guided imagery I think
of as a little bit lower hanging fruit because it's
more accessible to people. It's easier to kind of pop
in and pop out and get sort of immediate benefit
from it and not get Perhaps there aren't the stumbling
blocks that there are with meditation. Let's say that.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I would agree with you, and I love the
word accessible. You know, when I was healing, I did
guided imagery first and then I did move into meditation,
so I would I would agree. I think guided imagery
is a little bit easier. As you mentioned. Now, as
a physician and a naturopathic oncologist, why are you so
(06:39):
passionate about this specific healing tool. What interests you the
most about guided imagery?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, that is a great question. The reason why it
sort of pops up to the top of the pile
for me because there are many mind body interventions is
a few factors. The accessibility, I'll return to that. So
it's free or almost free. I mean my album is
free and lots of other ones are free, so I
would say that's very accessible to cancer patients. There's no
(07:08):
financial burden. It is unlikely to do harm. You know,
we'd have to work really hard to try and find
a harm. Obviously, you want to be mindful that the
messages you're giving yourself or messages you agree with. But
other than that, you don't have a risk of harm
or interact with medication or that sort of thing. And
(07:32):
it's bringing you The last piece I would say is
it's bringing you in a closer relationship with yourself. It's
strengthening this alliance that you have with your own belief system,
your own internal resources. It strengthens my experience anyways of
receipt of doing guided imagery myself. It's just that it
strengthened me in ways that I didn't expect it too.
(07:58):
It was more effective than I thought it would be
in the cancer process. And you know, we were speaking
of no oncology. We're always trying to match the level
of evidence to the level of risk. So in other words,
and Donald Abrams, doctor Donald Abrams, the integrated oncologist, has
pioneered this in an article he has hosted on Cancer Choices,
(08:18):
which is a wonderful website, and he talks about how
the level of risk should equal the level of evidence,
and with guided imagery, the risk is so so low.
You know, how much evidence do we even really need?
And yet there are seven randomized control trials in cancer
(08:39):
patients showing that guided imagery all, you know, all well
constructed studies showing that guided imagery really impacts anxiety and
depression and cancer patients. And then some of the more
recent trials have shown that it also helps with chemotherapy
induce nausea and vomiting. It improves health related quality of life,
which is sort of the big picture outcome that we
(09:01):
look at in populations, and these really tangible improvements in mood,
in anxiety and depression are valuable in and of themselves, Carolyn,
But also, you know, one of the things I don't
think we talk about enough of, or is a gap
in our cancer care, is addressing distress in people living
(09:24):
with cancer and newly diagnosed and all of the above,
because it also affects our immune system. Our inflammation. Anxiety
and depression are not good for our health and we
know that, and we know that it's going to impact
cancer outcomes as well. So to me, guided imagery is
just the lowest hanging fruit. Why would we not include
(09:46):
this in part of our routine care? Because we have
strong evidence that it is effective, there isn't a risk
to the patient to do it, there isn't a financial burden,
and it's helping to address this really unmet need of
helping support people emotionally through a very distressing time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I'm so glad that you're talking about the science because
I know that you're very much a science person and
evidence is important. I mean, seven randomized clinical trials, that's
the gold standard. So that's surprising, But do we know
how it works? Like oftentimes when we look at these studies,
we want to look at mechanisms of action and we
want to understand how it works. Do we know that
(10:28):
about guided imagery or do we just know that it works? Yeah,
a little bit of both. So guided imagery because it.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Incorporates a relaxation aspect, we know it's going to impact
our physiology to calm our nervous system. So we know
that it reduces cord is all for example, which is
you know, our chronic stress hormone. That is definitely a
goal of most of ours to reduce our cordisol levels.
But then it gets so there's broad effects that you
can assume of all guided imagery. But what's interesting is
(10:57):
to look at some of the research, for example, on
the affect on the immune system and how this was
a breast cancer trial. Women who vividly could picture their
natural killer cells actually had higher levels of natural killer
cells in the blood measurably and higher levels of natural
killer cell activity. So you can actually strive for a
(11:21):
specific health outcome, and by rehearsing it in our minds
and by picturing it very vividly, because our imaginations are powerful,
we can impact our physiology in these very specific ways.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, so it has physical benefits It's interesting because when
I was recovering from my ovarian cancer, I had a
friend who was a runner, and she told me, you know,
I think about you every time I run, and I
visualize that with every step my foot is crushing your
cancer cells. Oh wow, yeah, I thought, Wow, that's a
(11:59):
good friend. But this is this is you know how
how as you mentioned our imagination and how how guided
imagery works, can you describe one of your favorite guided
imagery tracks that you created? Can you take us through?
(12:19):
What what is it like?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah? I mean actually my favorite one. I didn't even uh,
I'm not in love with the title. And I love
the track because I never would have thought of it
if I hadn't gone through cancer myself. So that the
track is called Receiving Spiritual Healing. But what it's really
about it and it starts with broader healing, connecting with nature,
(12:43):
receiving healing from there, connecting with you know, moving up
to higher levels of energy and into the spiritual realm
to receive healing. But you realize one realizes that you've
got a team of people praying for you, exactly like
your friend with crushing cancer. These people are directing thoughts
(13:07):
sometimes even on a daily basis dedicated towards your healing,
and so we don't often pause to receive those prayers
to receive those Yeah, so that guided imagery is about
creating space, you know, fourteen minutes in the day or
in the week, to take a moment to really take
(13:29):
in all of the love and spiritual healing that is
being directed to you in this distressing time, and that
we can sort of complete the circuit, is how I
think of it. And by actually taking time to soak
in the energy that's being sent your way to get
(13:52):
the full benefit of it.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I love that. And you know what popped into my
head when you were talking about that. It also courage
is the sense of gratitude, Like you're thinking about all
these people who are you know, you're and you're opening
up to receive their healing energy and there and it
makes me feel such gratitude that you are open to
that and receiving that. And I love it, And I'm
(14:16):
glad that you mentioned the length. So typically, so this
one is fourteen minutes. Typically, how long are they?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I mean mine I kept all around the fifteen minute mark.
The sleep one is maybe nineteen minutes, but that's mostly
because it has a very slow fade out with the music.
I did it over theda wave music to sort of
again encourage that hypnotic state. I love theta music, but
(14:47):
I deliberately kept the visualization short because our attention span
is not super long when we're going through treatment. So
there's a track for surgery, there's a track for chemotherapy,
there's a track for or radiation. There's a sleep on
the sleep one actually is the only one that doesn't
have any mention of cancer. There's a series of affirmations,
(15:09):
and the affirmations are connected. There is a focus on
self compassion and affirmations, but the affirmations are also connected
to an article I had written on managing mindset in cancer,
which looks at different parts of ourselves that come to
bear like the warrior or the stoic, these different aspects
(15:31):
or ways of coping or parts of ourselves. And so
the affirmations you don't really notice it consciously when you're
going through it, but the affirmations call upon different strengths
within us and different mindsets connected to cancers. So yeah,
(15:53):
that's sort of happening on the background of the affirmations
track is because some people are more in the warrior mindset,
and some people are more in the stoic or some
in the mindfulness mindset, or some more in a spiritual mindset.
Or then there's one I call the er doc mindset,
which is very practical and sort of focused on problem solving.
(16:13):
So all these different parts of us can come to bear.
And so the affirmations deliberately use language to speak to
people who are coping in different ways.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, so give us an example of what some of
the affirmations are.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Oh, great question, I should pull that up. Let me
let me pull that up on my documents because I
can't actually remember.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh I know, but that second, yeah, because I do
want to talk about the be loved guided imagery. And
while you're pulling that up, why did you name it that?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Oh? Beloved?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Uh yeah, love it?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yes, that means so it's a combination of beloved and
be loved. So I I I don't know how it
came to me, but I think one of the lessons,
one of the many lessons that I got out of
going through cancer, was that a being is enough, that
we are inherently worthy, and that being loved is part
(17:14):
of why I were here. You know, I always thought
of myself as being here to love others, but I
didn't get that it was also my job to be
loved and to receive love and support from community through
a hard time like this. So that's that's sort of
where the title of the of the album came from.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, okay, so I've got some I've got some affirmation.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So it's.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Some examples are I embrace myself wholeheartedly and dedicate myself
to being a kind and gentle friend to myself along
this healing journey. I am capable, strong, and naturally resilient.
I can handle whatever comes my way. That's a great one.
(18:03):
I call upon my intention to heal my physical body,
my emotional body, and my spiritual body. I engage my
powerful will to assist me in doing this, and then
I'm going to find one of my favorites. I don't
know why I love it so much, but when I
listen to this myself, this is always one of my favorites.
(18:26):
Like gathering flowers in a meadow, I gather loving, kindness
and self compassion and place them in my body, feeling
them fill my arms and legs, my belly, chest, and head. Ah,
very good.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, I love that. The reason I love that one
is because it also adds in such a such a
wonderful visual you know, So it's not only a really
positive effort, but and I'm a I'm a flower girl
love flowers. So yes, that that is. That is great. Okay,
(19:09):
So what advice do you have for people who've never
tried guided imagery?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
M m hmm. That there is no skill required, uh
that even though people will differ a little bit in
how richly they imagine, So there is you know, some
people are natural writers and and whatnot. That the same
(19:36):
thing that happens which with anxiety, which is imagining something scary,
is a wonderful skill we can harness for our well being,
which is imagining ourselves strong and resilient and capable and
and well equipped. Really that, whether you're a child or
(19:57):
whether you're adult, guided imagery is easy to slip on
because thankfully, as humans, we are naturally imaginative beings.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, we really are, and this takes advantage of that
natural skill that we have.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, you've brought up sports before, and I mean all
of the pretty much all of the professional level sports
people engage in some form of guided imagery as preparation.
They rehearse in their minds, and actually they've done interesting
studies on the brain and what areas light up. And
when people, let's say professional basketball player is visualizing a
(20:43):
game and visualizing what's happening even though their body isn't moving,
the parts in their brain are lighting up connected to that,
so that there is again real activation happening in the body,
real immune activation, or real preparation for surgery when we
visualize these things happening. And it's not just a tool
that professional athletes use, it's a tool that all of
(21:05):
us can use.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, back to my friend who
was jogging and visualizing my cancer cells, do you encourage
caregivers and family members to participate and join in and
do guided imagery with their loved one.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Oh, thank you so much for saying that, because I
will say I do think guided imagery is a wonderful
way to protect against caregiver burnout, which you know is
a very real and yeah and sucky. Yeah, yeah, it's
anyone who's experienced it and just like you know, your
(21:45):
life force kind of getting drained out. So absolutely, because
part of the challenge when you're a caregiver, is it's
very tempting to throw away self care and prioritize another
since needs first, and so carving out even something small
(22:05):
like fourteen minutes is a way to, yeah, be in
allegiance with oneself or to be in that self care
mode where some of the energy is cycling into you
rather than out of you. And there are, I mean,
there's there are a ton of amazing guided imageries out there.
(22:29):
I'm pretty sure that Belaruth Napperstack has a guided imagery
for specifically for caregiver burnout. And I know that I
had many years ago for one of the conferences on
GAMP conferences, I had hired Gail Evo prat Tricolo, who's
does customized guided imagery here in Michigan, to do a
(22:50):
caregiver burnout prevention guided imagery for naturopathic doctors working in oncology.
So yeah, I think there are just much broad applications.
Were really at the tip of the iceberg with the
potential of guided imagery. I'm pretty sure. In one of
your previous episodes, Carolyn, you talked about that guided imagery
(23:12):
study for surgery for breast cancer surgery where they actually saved.
It was I think seven hundred and forty dollars for
every in surgical time for every woman who did guided
imagery and preppery. It was actually was a self hypnosis study,
That's what it was. They did self hypnosis right before surgery.
They and the healthcare system saves so much money per person,
(23:37):
not to mention the benefits of lowering cortisol and helping
the person experience less stress before their surgery.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, I can see a lot of applications. And I'm
so g glad that you brought up caregiver burnout because
I've been on both sides of that equation. I've been
a cancer patient and I've also been a caregiver, and
I can tell tell you that being a caregiver was
far more challenging. I mean, it's one of the most
stressful things that a person can go through. So this
(24:08):
is a great tool be loved or beloved guided imagery.
I mean truly, it's a gift, Doctor Green And the
fact that you're making it available free of charge, it's
very accessible. So where can people find more about a
beloved guided imagery? And you had mentioned that it's free,
(24:32):
Where can they? Where can they find it.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, great, it is. So it's on Amazon Music, it's
on YouTube. It's also on Spotify, and then there's a
sort of landing page on a website Beloved Cancer Support
dot Com backslash Guided Imagery. But whatever people, whatever system
people are on Spotify or YouTube or Amazon, they can
(24:57):
also search d r gen Green or you can search
be Loved Guided Imagery for cancer and either of those
will will bring it right up. And the logos sort
of purplish, and there's an image of mountains that my
daughter had created. It was a whole family affair.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That's nice. I would imagine. I would imagine that creating
something like this was quite healing for yourself as well,
because because it is a gift, you've you've created something
quite special. So for your own personal journey, how did
that feel?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah? I mean, so I recorded an early version of
the affirmations to listen to every day during chemo radiation,
and so I had a chance to sort of listen
and refine over time. And then because I had I
had a net cancer, my voice was very affected by
treatment for a time. And so when I finally got
to get in the studio a few months later and
(25:58):
record it. It just it was deeply, deeply healing on
many levels to use my voice and also to it
was such a wonderful, magical day in the recording studio.
It was, you know, a I was in a very
hypnotic state because I was listening to this staatea wave
music and doing all of these recordings, and the team
(26:21):
that I worked with was so, you know, just beyond wonderful.
And yeah, there's a lot of energy that gets captured
in the voice and in music and in recording that
I hadn't really appreciated before that experience. And that's something
that you do on this podcast that there's so much
(26:42):
that gets communicated about your mood and your smile and
your loving nature and the desire to help. All of
that is also getting communicated in your words on this podcast.
So yeah, just to acknowledge that, and thank you also
for the powerful work that you're doing in supper arding
people on their cancer journey and with their healthcare challenges,
(27:05):
because it makes a difference.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Well, thank you, thank you, and I highly recommend it.
Look it up beloved or Beloved Guided Imagery uh D
r j E N G R e E N dot
com and yeah, check it out. You're gonna love this
guided imagery and the affirmations are wonderful. Doctor Green, thank
you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Oh, thank you for having me, Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Well, that wraps up this episode of five to Thrive
Live once again. I'd like to thank our sponsors pro
Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Formula, Cetria Glutathione the superior glutath ione
to support liver and immune health, Cognizanceticoline to help enhance memory,
focus and attention, and Doctor or Heroes Award winning shelf
Stable Probiotic.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
This has been a great show. May you experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone, have a
great nights.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
S
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