May 7, 2024 • 29 mins
Naturopathic medicine is gaining popularity because it is a safe, natural way to gain better health and reduce the risk of illness. But how much do you know about this form of medicine? On this show, Karolyn talks with naturopathic medicine expert Michelle Simon, PhD, ND, about what naturopathic medicine is and how it helps people heal. If you are thinking about giving naturopathic medicine a try, you won't want to miss this show!
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(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:43):
Carolyn Gazella and I co host thisshow with my good friend, doctor Lisa
Alschuler. Today we're going to betalking about one of my favorite subjects,
and that's naturopathic medicine. But firstI'd like to thank our sponsors, Beginning
with American Biosciences, makers of Metatrolpremented weak GERM exstract for enhanced mitochondrial function
and empower AHCC Supercharge your Immune System. For free samples, research and an
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Ammuse is an ingredient in many immunesupporting dietary supplements. Look for Amuse
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at doctor Ohira Probiotics dot com.So today we're going to be talking about
naturopathic medicine, and I have tosay we've mentioned naturopathic medicine a lot on
(02:22):
the show because doctor al Schilder isa naturopathic doctor. We have the naturopathic
doctors who are experts, but we'venever taken a really deep dive into naturopathic
medicine. And today I have theperfect Expert with me is doctor Michelle Simon,
who is a naturopathic physician with aPhD in biomedical engineering. She is
(02:44):
also the president and CEO of theInstitute of Natural Medicine. Doctor Simon,
Welcome to the show. Thank you, Carol. I'm so happy to be
here with you today. Yeah,and you know, before we dig in,
why did you personally want to becomea natural doctor? Good question.
You know. I was that kidthat just wanted to know how things work.
(03:06):
I would take things apart put inthat together. And I come from
an engineering family. So I wentto college and graduated with a bachelor's in
mechanical engineering, and it was franklya little dry. So I learned about
biomedical engineering, and I went aheadand got a fellowship at the Duke Engineering
National Science Foundation Research Center and enrolledin the University North Kline Tackle Hill for
(03:27):
a doctorate in biomedical engineering. Andthen part way through that program, I
realized it really wasn't a fit forme, and how my knowledge was growing
about how the body healed, andI felt like I was kind of working
on end term solutions used in hospitals, kind of in the last six months
of life, where the bulk ofmedical spending happened in America when really what
(03:50):
those folks could have been doing perhapsis doing things differently decades earlier, that
they may not have ended up inthe hospital. So I didn't feel like
for me personally, it was actuallygetting to the root cause of And my
great uncle Louis knew John Bastiir,and he introduced me to naturopathic medicine.
So I came out to the PacificNorthwest and I visited the school, and
(04:10):
I really felt like it was afit for me. So after getting the
doctorate, I actually moved to Seattle, Washington and became a student in natropathic
medicine. And actually, for me, the evolution for mechanical engineer to biomedical
to end makes sense. And Ireally think of naturopathic medicine as the engineering
of whole health. We actually takea look at all the variables that might
(04:33):
be affecting somebody's health, and wetake a systemized approach looking for the root
cause of the issue. And whenconsidering like the whole of a patient,
there's a lot going on, andso every patient gets a different treatment plan.
Right. It's very patient center andit's very nuanced that way, and
this is how I think healthcare shouldbe practiced. Like it's a great profession
(04:56):
and everyday patients are different and anew adventure begins and you don't get bored
as an end, that's for sure. And new researchers coming out every year
to understand how the body works andhow you know, it's evolving, and
so we practice differently every year,and I'll admit it's you know, it's
still a relatively emerging profession that's nowavailable in about half the states and territories,
(05:17):
and I think people seeking out thisprofession need to have kind of a
revolutionary streak and be confident and awarethat they're going to be swimming upstream per
se or kind of going against thequote unquote norm. But actually this approach
is on the upswing, and soI think, actually it's a really great
time to join the profession. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's a great time
(05:39):
for us for us to educate ourlisteners. You know, I've been in
this field since nineteen ninety two andthat first year is when I met my
first naturopathic doctor, and I havebeen in love with the nantropathic profession ever
since. And whow has it changed, And you are absolutely right. We
are on an upstream, an upswingwhen it comes to naturopathic medicine, and
(05:59):
we're going to talk a little bitmore about that, but I want to
get down to some nuts and boltsfirst. So how do you define or
describe naturopathic medicine to people? Yeah, so it is a distinct healthcare profession
that combines the wisdom of nature,so a recognition of the body's inherent ability
to heal itself with the rigors ofmodern science. So it emphasizes prevention and
(06:25):
the promotion of optimal health through theuse of therapeutic methods and substances that really
encourage and individual's inherent self healing process. We consider ourselves to be kind of
partners with nature. So natural doctorsor else say, nds, are trained
as primary care providers who really treatthe whole person, so taking into account
their physical, their mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of health. And
(06:47):
it's guided by six principles and I'lljust speak to them briefly. One of
them, the first one of mymy favorite one is the healing power of
nature. We call this medicatrix nature, and this means that naturo protagmas recognizes
that inherent ability to heal, andwe want to support and enhance the healing
process whenever possible and using natural therapiesas a primary intervention, and we then
(07:13):
identify and treat the cause. Sonatropadic medicine really seeks to address that underlying
cause of the illness when possible touncover it's not always possible. What we
do look for that primarily and thenfirst do no harm. So we like
to utilize the least invasive and leastharmful therapies necessary for effective treatment, so
(07:34):
that minimizes the risk of side effects. It also often minimizes cost if you
would think about like on a scaleof different kinds of interventions. And then
doctor is teacher docere, So doctoractually comes from the Latin word desserre,
which means to teach. All doctorsare teachers and should actually empower their patients
and educate them to take responsibility fortheir own health and provide guidance on lifestyle
(07:58):
changes, nutrition and self care practices. That does take times, or our
appointments are typically a little bit longer. Then there's two more treat the whole
person. So natropodig MESIG takes intoacount the physical, mental, emotional,
and spiritual aspects of health when diagnosingand treating patients that whole person. And
then the last one is probably themost important, which is prevention. So
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natropodity doctors emphasize the importance of preventivehealth care measures helping patients make lifestyle changes
that promote their long term health andwell being. And we also use a
variety of treatment modalities including clinic nutrition, botanical medicine, physical medicine, lifestyle
counseling, hydrotherapy which is like hotand cold alternating water treatments, among a
(08:41):
lot of other different modalities. Wealso can compliment these treatments with conventional medical
therapies as we learn all of thatas well. So in many states where
primary care providers, like my stateof Washington here where I live, you
know, I can actually prescribe prescriptionmedications. It's just typically not where I
start unless it's really you know,like an acute need and has to happen.
(09:01):
But overall, natropathic medicine offers patientcentered approach to healthcare, focusing on
the tree and the root cause ofthe illness and promoting overall wellness and vitality,
and I think it ought to bethe future of healthcare. Really yeah,
I would definitely agree. So whattype of education and training did naturopathic
doctors go through to get their doctorate? Yeah, it's pretty rigorous. I
(09:24):
mean I will say I got aPhD en biomedical engineering and getting the natroprilic
doctorate was way harder. So matropathletmedical education curriculum is a comprehensive, rigorous,
well rounded scientific medical education. It'sreally comparable to that of what mds
and doos go through where trained asprimary care providers who diagnose, treat,
and manage patients with acute and chronicconditions while addressing disease and the dysfunction hopefully
(09:48):
at the level of the body mindedspirit when possible. I think of us
as the original patient centered, wholehealth specialists. So the education incorporates like
a foundation, a basic foundation ofbiomedicine, physiology, anatomy, all of
that stuff, but also cutting edgenutritional therapies and supervise clinical application of that
classroom knowledge. So we get aboutone hundred and forty class hours of the
(10:11):
clinical nutrition and a comparable amount inherbal medicine and in counseling. We're the
only primary care physician level practitioner groupto have this depth of training, and
it really uniquely situates us to beable to engage with patients and engage them
in their lifestyle changes, because ifyou can't, you can't really engage a
patient I have a therapeutic relationship.It's really really hard to get them to
(10:35):
change their habits. Diet has gotto be the hardest thing you're asking people
to change, in fact, Soit really it focuses on natropolitic therapeutic order
as well. And I don't thinkI mentioned that yet, but that's kind
of our kind of the philosophy thatguides practice for us. So it suggests
that the least amount of four shouldbe employed at the beginning of a therapeutic
(10:58):
relationship, and we start with thefundamental so diet, lifestyle, nutrition,
that kind of stuff, and thenas send with a natural progression of the
therapeutic kind of like the strength ofthe intervention. So we start with lower
forces and then move up as sendan order. So at the very top
is sort of drugs and surgery andthat sort of thing, and hopefully you
(11:20):
don't have to get there if youdo all the levels below that well,
so that the diet, lifestyle andnatural supplements, maybe some physical medicine if
possible. So it's a nice kindof orderly approach, and I really think
it should be the foundation of theway healthcare is practiced. It's kind of
a common sense approach really. Yeah, And I'd like to talk about myths
and misconceptions regarding naturopathic medicine. Onethat I've heard over the years is that
(11:46):
naturopathic doctors don't go to school aslong and the amount of training that they
get is not as rigorous. Hasthat been what you've heard over the years?
I have heard that, But youknow, it's the same length of
time. So it's four or fiveyears. You have to have a bachelor
(12:07):
undergraduate degree to go to natropathic school. It's hard, Like, let's be
honest, like these are full leveldoctors. That's actually one of the myths
that we're not real doctors, Right, there's this misconception out there. In
reality, undergow very rigorous training andwhere licensed health care providers in many states
and countries. I think a lotof the confusion comes in is that there
(12:28):
are some states that are not yetlicensed and regulated, where someone can actually
call themselves a naturopathic doctor without havinggone to one of the accredited medical institutions.
And so that to me is actuallya public health concern, and it's
an argument for why I think nationwidelicensee of ends should happen. We are
about halfway there, so we're definitelymaking progress. Oh, I would agree
(12:50):
with you. That has been myconcern for so long, where somebody can
call themselves a nautopathic doctor. Andyou know, being with after Elshielder for
going on thirty years, I knowthe type of training she's had and it's
just upsetting, honestly to think thatsomebody can call himself a naturopathic doctor.
So I agree, I think thatwe're headed in the right direction. And
(13:11):
just to our listeners, if you'regoing to a naturopathic doctor, find out
where they receive their doctorate, becausethere are only I think doctor Simon like
maybe seven that's right credited. Yeah, so find out where they've gotten their
license. Then do your research beforesaying yes to that naturopath. But I'll
tell you there's some great naturopathic doctorsout there. So are there any other
(13:33):
myths or misconceptions that you like togo through before I talk about the next
question. Yeah, I mean there'slots of them. I think one is
that we're not evidence based. That'sreally common myths that naturopathic medicine isn't focused
on evidence, and that's so nottrue. Like I think, many natural
therapies are used by nat doctors havebeen studied and they've been shown to be
(13:54):
effective through scientific research. And youjust can go on to PubMed which is
a a research database that you canfind on the Internet and search for any
natural treatment for any condition. You'lllikely find lots and lots of answers,
and the volume of results is actuallygoing up every year for this sector of
kind of research. That the problemcomes in with the actual system of medicine
(14:18):
that naturopathic medicine is. So theresearch is challenged in that we are a
system of medicine and not just asingle intervention, and those are harder to
study the way research is set upright now. That's one of the problems
I think. And then another Ithink myth is that it's unsafe or unregulated.
Some people think it's unregulated, andthat's just not true either. We
(14:41):
are licensed and regulated as other doctorsare in many states, and in fact,
we're primary care providers in many stateslike my state of Washington, where
I can prescribe, diagnose, Ican refer for diagnostic imaging, you know,
if I play the role of medicalkind of home for patients in a
way. So there's a lot theregulation involved in that, for sure.
(15:01):
Yeah, I would agree. Andback to the evidence space. One thing
that I've noticed, so as ahealth journalist and a research journalist, I'm
looking at the research every week,and what I have noticed is just the
increase in the amount of really rigorousresearch that's being done on integrative medicine,
(15:22):
which is really the foundation of natropathicmedicine, integrating you know, the best
of both worlds. So is thereenough research to validate this form of medicine?
Talk a little bit about that,like what would you like to what's
what's the state of the research rightnow and what would you like to see
in the future. Ah, yeah, Well, so's the yes and no
(15:43):
answer. Is there enough? Thereis some? I think there is opportunity
for more, and I do thinkresearch is a really foundational aspect of any
system of medicine. I think we'renot as evolved as some of the other
systems are, partly because there hasn'tbeen as much funding available for are relatively
small and somewhat emerging profession and thereare a lot of separate research institutes now
(16:07):
and research being conducted by different groups. There's some journals and worldwide journals that
are dedicated to research. I thinkone could just go to the World Metropathic
Federation. They are a nice convenerof metropathic research that's happening around the globe
in the US as well, andwe're making a lot of strides I think,
in research, but it is noteasy. So the big drawback I
(16:27):
alluded to it earlier is the inherentchallenge in investigating how end's practice is that
we individualize our care. We don'ttypically follow a disease based model of care,
meaning if someone comes in for hypertension, they're not automatically placed on a
pharma focused protocol, so you don'thave just lots of patients doing the same
(16:48):
thing. We follow the therapeutic orderand that aims to uncover the root cause
of that condition when possible, takinginto account the terrain like they're internal and
external train, so their diet,their life style, their relationships, environmental
exposures or organ health system, allof this stuff, and they all require
different treatment approaches that go beyond treatingjust the presenting symptom. Medication might be
(17:11):
part of the plans. Sometimes itis, but the goal is cure when
possible, instead of just staying onthe medication for the remainder of your life.
And so we actually find ourselves inthe role of deep prescribing medication as
patients improve their overall health, andthat's part of the therapeutic order as well,
when you're looking at the whole person'shealth system. It's difficult to study
just one intervention with the current doubleblind, placebo controlled trial as the research
(17:37):
gold standard, so that's our challenge. I think the opportunities are to work
with groups like there's an Integrative MedicineResearch Institute at RAND that's just starting up
and they are interested in helping investigatethese clinical networks where you're looking at outcomes
research, and I think we havea really nice opportunity to look at outcomes
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resecace of naturopathic primary care, sokind of regardless of the intervention, knowing
that it's a naturopathic philosophy that treatedthis patient. How did they do?
Like, that's what the kind ofresearch I think needs to be conducted in
greater volume for us. Yeah,I would agree with that. So for
our listeners who are thinking about seeinga naturopathic doctor, what advice do you
(18:26):
have for them in terms of choosingthe right doctor for them. That's such
a good question, Carolyn, Soof course I would give it a try.
I am biased, but I don'tthink there have anything to lose.
And of course, like you mentionedbefore, making sure that your natropolitic doctor
is licensed. Regardless of the statethat they practice in. They should hold
(18:47):
a license in some state. Thatmeans that they've gone to a uncredited school,
they've taken a board exam, andthey're keeping up on their continuing education,
and you should be able to lookthem up either by the school they
graduate from or use a vetted databased search service like find a naturaldoctor dot
com. And that's the one thatI in m Are our organization puts out
there and we vet to make sureall the doctors on that database are licensed.
(19:11):
So in some insurance companies also includecoverage. You can find your doctors
through your insurance plans. Sometimes theywould obviously have to be licensed as well,
so those things are important. Andalso insurance because it covers latro project
medicine, it doesn't do it inall states, so you should know if
your if your plan might include coverageor not, and deep prepared to engage
(19:33):
with a treatment plan is my lastbase of advice. It's not going to
be the same as going to youknow a doctor for ten minutes and leading
with a prescription. Your treatment planis going to involve some diet and lifestyle
recommendations likely and maybe some natural supplementationand maybe a prescription of it's indicated acutely.
But I'd like you know, anew patient to think of their end
(19:53):
as their partner and whole health.They're a great resource for a second opinion
when things are maybe just not gettingbetter with your conventional provider, or you've
got a chronic health condition. Youneed another fresh to look at what might
be really at the root cause ofyour issue, and be prepared to talk
because you're going to be talking quitea bit. The first visit is usually
an hour, and return office callsare often thirty minutes. It takes time,
(20:17):
and solutions really do take time,so root cause medicine is sometimes slower,
but the result is the goal ofthe result is a cure and not
just medication of like symptoms for life. So this is what the investment of
time can really provide. Yeah,and I'm so glad that you mentioned partnership
because that's one of the key thingsthat I like. It's more of a
collaboration. So if you're a proactivepatient who wants to collaborate with your physician,
(20:45):
naturopathic medicine is really right for you. Now you mentioned your organization,
the Institute for Natural Medicine. Thewebsite is naturemed dot org, and I
want to talk about that more soby way of full disclosure, I want
to let our listeners know that Iam an author with the Institute for Natural
Medicine. Some of my favorite researchand writing that I do. To be
(21:07):
honest with you, doctor Simon,so you tell us a little bit about
what your Your whole website is abouteducating people about natural medicine and naturopathic medicine.
And it's it's really a movement.Why is education so important and why
do they need to go to atrusted source versus just willing really online?
(21:32):
Yeah, I feel really passionate aboutthis, so thank you for asking about
this question. You know, inour country right now, the braining paradigm
is conventional care, but our outcomesare dismal. We're thirty six in the
world on health outcomes. One ofthe three people born this year will develop
diabetes, and the average seventy yearolds on like something like seven different prescription
medications, and still our life expectancyis dropped for the past three years.
(21:55):
So something's not right. And it'snot a matter of finances. We spend
one point five times more than thesecond highest huntter in healthcare spending, so
it's not a shortage of resources thatway. It's our approach, and I
and M we believe there is anotherway. We believe that naturopathic medicine should
be the model for how patient centered, whole health can be delivered. We
think the therapeutic order approach is alogic logical orderly approach. I mean prioritizing
(22:22):
diet and lifestyle, seeking to solvethe root causes when possible, and then
ascending the scale of intervention se verityif necessary. You know what, we
don't always start with the prescription runout of the gate, but it's sometimes
it is what you need, butI think it's common sense care. It
doesn't feed the business of health care, but it helps saves lives, and
I think it helps save money aswell because the interventions are generally less complicated.
(22:48):
So educating the public is how we'regoing to help drive the demand at
the grassroots level. It also helpsempower patients to take control of their health
since there are so many websites thatit to natural health that are invested in
selling supplements and programs, and Ithink it's really wise for the consumer to
seek out information that is non commercialand rooted in scientific evidence, and that's
(23:11):
what we produce. It's we're theonly national nonprofit dedicated to raising awareness about
natural medicine, and we're super proudof our success. And so people can
join at naturemed dot org and joinour newsletter list and gain information about whole
health and how to access it anduse our find natural Doctor database to find
a natural product doctum near them.But we think it's a movement and we're
(23:33):
really super happy to be proud tobe part of that movement. Yeah.
I kind of look at you guysas being right now, you're like the
web MD of natural medicine. Butyou're going to become like the health resource,
So that's where that's our goal.Yeah, that's where people are going
to go for information. And Ithink that that's that's that's where you're headed.
Now. You mentioned some of thethings like the newsletter and such,
(23:55):
But as we were talking, itoccurred to me like if I was thinking
about, you know, seeing anachepathic doctor, but I didn't know what
questions to ask. Tell me alittle bit more about the information that I
will find if I go to naturemeddot org. Yeah, so it there
(24:15):
we can we give information about naturaltherapy approaches to health conditions. We also
promote some of the research about naturaltherapeutics as well. We introduce people to
patient story so you can kind ofget a sense of what somebody else's experience
has been with a natropolite doctor andtheir success and how that can be inspirational
(24:37):
to drive you to maybe want tosee a natro polite doctor for yourself.
We also talk a little bit aboutour programs. So we've got a program
called naturally Well, which is akid's nutritional program. We just actually got
a national award from the Harkin Instituteas having one of the twelve premiere programs
in the country that's doing good thingsto help wellness and children, and that's
(25:00):
we're super proud about that. Wealso have a residency consortium. We educate
doctors fresh out of school and givea two year residency to them. And
we also have a primary care Outreachtask Force where we're working on getting naturopathic
doctors employed in conventional health settings inFQHCs and community health centers, because we
(25:22):
really think having a naturopathic doctor atthe front lines of primary care with this
focus on prevention and diet and lifestylechange is a really smart strategy for community
health. So that's some of thestuff we have there. Yeah, I
would agree with you about primary care. I mean, we're in the conventional
medical model. We're running into ashortages and it's just not working, and
(25:47):
I think that natropathic doctors can reallyfill an important gap there. I highly
recommend our listeners to go to naturemeddot org org nature meed dot org.
Okay, last question, doctor Simon, but you can take your time with
it. What does the future holdfor naturopathic medicine. Well, I will
(26:07):
tell you what my vision is whetherthe future is going to line up with
it. It is yet to bedetermined, But I think there's a movement
happening in this country, particularly notonly in this country, but globally,
where folks are getting back to understandingthat humans are complex. We can't just
reduce our medical therapies to a singleintervention and expect all things to change.
(26:29):
We are three dimensional, very complex, interactive, biochemical, physical, emotional,
spiritual beings and you can't disregard anyone of those things. So a
whole person health approach is what iscoming our way, and natropathic doctors are
specialists in this. We have beenlicensed for over one hundred years in Washington
State. This is not a newkind of approach. We've been doing it
(26:53):
for a long time. But thereally great thing about natropathic medicine is that
while holding onto the roots in thewisdom of nature, we also embrace the
modern science and we meld the two. In fact, one of the really
unique things about natropathic doctors is they'reable to take the latest scientific discoveries,
understand them in the context of howwe view the view the body and the
(27:18):
ability to heal itself, and thenemploy those changes right away. That typically
is not what happens in conventional medicine. The average time for a scientific discovery
to reach mainstream health practice is twentyyears, and that's a long time.
Like lots of things have already changedin twenty years. But nutropothic doctors are
(27:38):
I think lucky in that we areable to change our practice much more quickly
and we take advantage of those right. Yeah. Genetic testing became so widespread,
you know, d's were at thefront lines of helping people understand their
own genome and understand how to implementthat to improve their health and their prevention
(28:02):
as well. Great. Yeah,I would agree, a whole person approach.
That's what nature pathic medicine is allabout. Well, thank you so
much, doctor Simon for joining me. Yeah, thank you, Carolyn.
I've been an honor to speak withyou again, and thank you so much
for your work here in this podcastand also with our organization. We really
value you. Well, thank youso much. Well, that wraps up
this episode of Five to Thrive Liveonce again. I'd like to thank our
(28:22):
sponsors, American Biosciences, makers ofMetatrol and Empower products that contain whek germ
extract and AHCC to supercharge your immunesystem. Immuse post biotic to give your
immune system that extra boost, CognizenCiticolon to help enhance memory, focus and
attention. And of course doctor Ohreis Award winning shelf Stable probiotic. This
(28:45):
has been a great show. Mayyou experience joy, laughter and love.
It's time to thrive. Everyone havea good name. The statement the city
is bannstrative in
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:43):
Carolyn Gazella and I co host thisshow with my good friend, doctor Lisa
Alschuler. Today we're going to betalking about one of my favorite subjects,
and that's naturopathic medicine. But firstI'd like to thank our sponsors, Beginning
with American Biosciences, makers of Metatrolpremented weak GERM exstract for enhanced mitochondrial function
and empower AHCC Supercharge your Immune System. For free samples, research and an
(01:08):
exclusive Thrive discount, go to Theharmonycompanydot com forward slash Thrive. Also Amuse,
a unique, patented post biotic thatgives your immune system a key advantage.
Ammuse is an ingredient in many immunesupporting dietary supplements. Look for Amuse
on the label or go to immusehealthdot com for more information and cognizance.
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at doctor Ohira Probiotics dot com.So today we're going to be talking about
naturopathic medicine, and I have tosay we've mentioned naturopathic medicine a lot on
(02:22):
the show because doctor al Schilder isa naturopathic doctor. We have the naturopathic
doctors who are experts, but we'venever taken a really deep dive into naturopathic
medicine. And today I have theperfect Expert with me is doctor Michelle Simon,
who is a naturopathic physician with aPhD in biomedical engineering. She is
(02:44):
also the president and CEO of theInstitute of Natural Medicine. Doctor Simon,
Welcome to the show. Thank you, Carol. I'm so happy to be
here with you today. Yeah,and you know, before we dig in,
why did you personally want to becomea natural doctor? Good question.
You know. I was that kidthat just wanted to know how things work.
(03:06):
I would take things apart put inthat together. And I come from
an engineering family. So I wentto college and graduated with a bachelor's in
mechanical engineering, and it was franklya little dry. So I learned about
biomedical engineering, and I went aheadand got a fellowship at the Duke Engineering
National Science Foundation Research Center and enrolledin the University North Kline Tackle Hill for
(03:27):
a doctorate in biomedical engineering. Andthen part way through that program, I
realized it really wasn't a fit forme, and how my knowledge was growing
about how the body healed, andI felt like I was kind of working
on end term solutions used in hospitals, kind of in the last six months
of life, where the bulk ofmedical spending happened in America when really what
(03:50):
those folks could have been doing perhapsis doing things differently decades earlier, that
they may not have ended up inthe hospital. So I didn't feel like
for me personally, it was actuallygetting to the root cause of And my
great uncle Louis knew John Bastiir,and he introduced me to naturopathic medicine.
So I came out to the PacificNorthwest and I visited the school, and
(04:10):
I really felt like it was afit for me. So after getting the
doctorate, I actually moved to Seattle, Washington and became a student in natropathic
medicine. And actually, for me, the evolution for mechanical engineer to biomedical
to end makes sense. And Ireally think of naturopathic medicine as the engineering
of whole health. We actually takea look at all the variables that might
(04:33):
be affecting somebody's health, and wetake a systemized approach looking for the root
cause of the issue. And whenconsidering like the whole of a patient,
there's a lot going on, andso every patient gets a different treatment plan.
Right. It's very patient center andit's very nuanced that way, and
this is how I think healthcare shouldbe practiced. Like it's a great profession
(04:56):
and everyday patients are different and anew adventure begins and you don't get bored
as an end, that's for sure. And new researchers coming out every year
to understand how the body works andhow you know, it's evolving, and
so we practice differently every year,and I'll admit it's you know, it's
still a relatively emerging profession that's nowavailable in about half the states and territories,
(05:17):
and I think people seeking out thisprofession need to have kind of a
revolutionary streak and be confident and awarethat they're going to be swimming upstream per
se or kind of going against thequote unquote norm. But actually this approach
is on the upswing, and soI think, actually it's a really great
time to join the profession. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's a great time
(05:39):
for us for us to educate ourlisteners. You know, I've been in
this field since nineteen ninety two andthat first year is when I met my
first naturopathic doctor, and I havebeen in love with the nantropathic profession ever
since. And whow has it changed, And you are absolutely right. We
are on an upstream, an upswingwhen it comes to naturopathic medicine, and
(05:59):
we're going to talk a little bitmore about that, but I want to
get down to some nuts and boltsfirst. So how do you define or
describe naturopathic medicine to people? Yeah, so it is a distinct healthcare profession
that combines the wisdom of nature,so a recognition of the body's inherent ability
to heal itself with the rigors ofmodern science. So it emphasizes prevention and
(06:25):
the promotion of optimal health through theuse of therapeutic methods and substances that really
encourage and individual's inherent self healing process. We consider ourselves to be kind of
partners with nature. So natural doctorsor else say, nds, are trained
as primary care providers who really treatthe whole person, so taking into account
their physical, their mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of health. And
(06:47):
it's guided by six principles and I'lljust speak to them briefly. One of
them, the first one of mymy favorite one is the healing power of
nature. We call this medicatrix nature, and this means that naturo protagmas recognizes
that inherent ability to heal, andwe want to support and enhance the healing
process whenever possible and using natural therapiesas a primary intervention, and we then
(07:13):
identify and treat the cause. Sonatropadic medicine really seeks to address that underlying
cause of the illness when possible touncover it's not always possible. What we
do look for that primarily and thenfirst do no harm. So we like
to utilize the least invasive and leastharmful therapies necessary for effective treatment, so
(07:34):
that minimizes the risk of side effects. It also often minimizes cost if you
would think about like on a scaleof different kinds of interventions. And then
doctor is teacher docere, So doctoractually comes from the Latin word desserre,
which means to teach. All doctorsare teachers and should actually empower their patients
and educate them to take responsibility fortheir own health and provide guidance on lifestyle
(07:58):
changes, nutrition and self care practices. That does take times, or our
appointments are typically a little bit longer. Then there's two more treat the whole
person. So natropodig MESIG takes intoacount the physical, mental, emotional,
and spiritual aspects of health when diagnosingand treating patients that whole person. And
then the last one is probably themost important, which is prevention. So
(08:20):
natropodity doctors emphasize the importance of preventivehealth care measures helping patients make lifestyle changes
that promote their long term health andwell being. And we also use a
variety of treatment modalities including clinic nutrition, botanical medicine, physical medicine, lifestyle
counseling, hydrotherapy which is like hotand cold alternating water treatments, among a
(08:41):
lot of other different modalities. Wealso can compliment these treatments with conventional medical
therapies as we learn all of thatas well. So in many states where
primary care providers, like my stateof Washington here where I live, you
know, I can actually prescribe prescriptionmedications. It's just typically not where I
start unless it's really you know,like an acute need and has to happen.
(09:01):
But overall, natropathic medicine offers patientcentered approach to healthcare, focusing on
the tree and the root cause ofthe illness and promoting overall wellness and vitality,
and I think it ought to bethe future of healthcare. Really yeah,
I would definitely agree. So whattype of education and training did naturopathic
doctors go through to get their doctorate? Yeah, it's pretty rigorous. I
(09:24):
mean I will say I got aPhD en biomedical engineering and getting the natroprilic
doctorate was way harder. So matropathletmedical education curriculum is a comprehensive, rigorous,
well rounded scientific medical education. It'sreally comparable to that of what mds
and doos go through where trained asprimary care providers who diagnose, treat,
and manage patients with acute and chronicconditions while addressing disease and the dysfunction hopefully
(09:48):
at the level of the body mindedspirit when possible. I think of us
as the original patient centered, wholehealth specialists. So the education incorporates like
a foundation, a basic foundation ofbiomedicine, physiology, anatomy, all of
that stuff, but also cutting edgenutritional therapies and supervise clinical application of that
classroom knowledge. So we get aboutone hundred and forty class hours of the
(10:11):
clinical nutrition and a comparable amount inherbal medicine and in counseling. We're the
only primary care physician level practitioner groupto have this depth of training, and
it really uniquely situates us to beable to engage with patients and engage them
in their lifestyle changes, because ifyou can't, you can't really engage a
patient I have a therapeutic relationship.It's really really hard to get them to
(10:35):
change their habits. Diet has gotto be the hardest thing you're asking people
to change, in fact, Soit really it focuses on natropolitic therapeutic order
as well. And I don't thinkI mentioned that yet, but that's kind
of our kind of the philosophy thatguides practice for us. So it suggests
that the least amount of four shouldbe employed at the beginning of a therapeutic
(10:58):
relationship, and we start with thefundamental so diet, lifestyle, nutrition,
that kind of stuff, and thenas send with a natural progression of the
therapeutic kind of like the strength ofthe intervention. So we start with lower
forces and then move up as sendan order. So at the very top
is sort of drugs and surgery andthat sort of thing, and hopefully you
(11:20):
don't have to get there if youdo all the levels below that well,
so that the diet, lifestyle andnatural supplements, maybe some physical medicine if
possible. So it's a nice kindof orderly approach, and I really think
it should be the foundation of theway healthcare is practiced. It's kind of
a common sense approach really. Yeah, And I'd like to talk about myths
and misconceptions regarding naturopathic medicine. Onethat I've heard over the years is that
(11:46):
naturopathic doctors don't go to school aslong and the amount of training that they
get is not as rigorous. Hasthat been what you've heard over the years?
I have heard that, But youknow, it's the same length of
time. So it's four or fiveyears. You have to have a bachelor
(12:07):
undergraduate degree to go to natropathic school. It's hard, Like, let's be
honest, like these are full leveldoctors. That's actually one of the myths
that we're not real doctors, Right, there's this misconception out there. In
reality, undergow very rigorous training andwhere licensed health care providers in many states
and countries. I think a lotof the confusion comes in is that there
(12:28):
are some states that are not yetlicensed and regulated, where someone can actually
call themselves a naturopathic doctor without havinggone to one of the accredited medical institutions.
And so that to me is actuallya public health concern, and it's
an argument for why I think nationwidelicensee of ends should happen. We are
about halfway there, so we're definitelymaking progress. Oh, I would agree
(12:50):
with you. That has been myconcern for so long, where somebody can
call themselves a nautopathic doctor. Andyou know, being with after Elshielder for
going on thirty years, I knowthe type of training she's had and it's
just upsetting, honestly to think thatsomebody can call himself a naturopathic doctor.
So I agree, I think thatwe're headed in the right direction. And
(13:11):
just to our listeners, if you'regoing to a naturopathic doctor, find out
where they receive their doctorate, becausethere are only I think doctor Simon like
maybe seven that's right credited. Yeah, so find out where they've gotten their
license. Then do your research beforesaying yes to that naturopath. But I'll
tell you there's some great naturopathic doctorsout there. So are there any other
(13:33):
myths or misconceptions that you like togo through before I talk about the next
question. Yeah, I mean there'slots of them. I think one is
that we're not evidence based. That'sreally common myths that naturopathic medicine isn't focused
on evidence, and that's so nottrue. Like I think, many natural
therapies are used by nat doctors havebeen studied and they've been shown to be
(13:54):
effective through scientific research. And youjust can go on to PubMed which is
a a research database that you canfind on the Internet and search for any
natural treatment for any condition. You'lllikely find lots and lots of answers,
and the volume of results is actuallygoing up every year for this sector of
kind of research. That the problemcomes in with the actual system of medicine
(14:18):
that naturopathic medicine is. So theresearch is challenged in that we are a
system of medicine and not just asingle intervention, and those are harder to
study the way research is set upright now. That's one of the problems
I think. And then another Ithink myth is that it's unsafe or unregulated.
Some people think it's unregulated, andthat's just not true either. We
(14:41):
are licensed and regulated as other doctorsare in many states, and in fact,
we're primary care providers in many stateslike my state of Washington, where
I can prescribe, diagnose, Ican refer for diagnostic imaging, you know,
if I play the role of medicalkind of home for patients in a
way. So there's a lot theregulation involved in that, for sure.
(15:01):
Yeah, I would agree. Andback to the evidence space. One thing
that I've noticed, so as ahealth journalist and a research journalist, I'm
looking at the research every week,and what I have noticed is just the
increase in the amount of really rigorousresearch that's being done on integrative medicine,
(15:22):
which is really the foundation of natropathicmedicine, integrating you know, the best
of both worlds. So is thereenough research to validate this form of medicine?
Talk a little bit about that,like what would you like to what's
what's the state of the research rightnow and what would you like to see
in the future. Ah, yeah, Well, so's the yes and no
(15:43):
answer. Is there enough? Thereis some? I think there is opportunity
for more, and I do thinkresearch is a really foundational aspect of any
system of medicine. I think we'renot as evolved as some of the other
systems are, partly because there hasn'tbeen as much funding available for are relatively
small and somewhat emerging profession and thereare a lot of separate research institutes now
(16:07):
and research being conducted by different groups. There's some journals and worldwide journals that
are dedicated to research. I thinkone could just go to the World Metropathic
Federation. They are a nice convenerof metropathic research that's happening around the globe
in the US as well, andwe're making a lot of strides I think,
in research, but it is noteasy. So the big drawback I
(16:27):
alluded to it earlier is the inherentchallenge in investigating how end's practice is that
we individualize our care. We don'ttypically follow a disease based model of care,
meaning if someone comes in for hypertension, they're not automatically placed on a
pharma focused protocol, so you don'thave just lots of patients doing the same
(16:48):
thing. We follow the therapeutic orderand that aims to uncover the root cause
of that condition when possible, takinginto account the terrain like they're internal and
external train, so their diet,their life style, their relationships, environmental
exposures or organ health system, allof this stuff, and they all require
different treatment approaches that go beyond treatingjust the presenting symptom. Medication might be
(17:11):
part of the plans. Sometimes itis, but the goal is cure when
possible, instead of just staying onthe medication for the remainder of your life.
And so we actually find ourselves inthe role of deep prescribing medication as
patients improve their overall health, andthat's part of the therapeutic order as well,
when you're looking at the whole person'shealth system. It's difficult to study
just one intervention with the current doubleblind, placebo controlled trial as the research
(17:37):
gold standard, so that's our challenge. I think the opportunities are to work
with groups like there's an Integrative MedicineResearch Institute at RAND that's just starting up
and they are interested in helping investigatethese clinical networks where you're looking at outcomes
research, and I think we havea really nice opportunity to look at outcomes
(17:59):
resecace of naturopathic primary care, sokind of regardless of the intervention, knowing
that it's a naturopathic philosophy that treatedthis patient. How did they do?
Like, that's what the kind ofresearch I think needs to be conducted in
greater volume for us. Yeah,I would agree with that. So for
our listeners who are thinking about seeinga naturopathic doctor, what advice do you
(18:26):
have for them in terms of choosingthe right doctor for them. That's such
a good question, Carolyn, Soof course I would give it a try.
I am biased, but I don'tthink there have anything to lose.
And of course, like you mentionedbefore, making sure that your natropolitic doctor
is licensed. Regardless of the statethat they practice in. They should hold
(18:47):
a license in some state. Thatmeans that they've gone to a uncredited school,
they've taken a board exam, andthey're keeping up on their continuing education,
and you should be able to lookthem up either by the school they
graduate from or use a vetted databased search service like find a naturaldoctor dot
com. And that's the one thatI in m Are our organization puts out
there and we vet to make sureall the doctors on that database are licensed.
(19:11):
So in some insurance companies also includecoverage. You can find your doctors
through your insurance plans. Sometimes theywould obviously have to be licensed as well,
so those things are important. Andalso insurance because it covers latro project
medicine, it doesn't do it inall states, so you should know if
your if your plan might include coverageor not, and deep prepared to engage
(19:33):
with a treatment plan is my lastbase of advice. It's not going to
be the same as going to youknow a doctor for ten minutes and leading
with a prescription. Your treatment planis going to involve some diet and lifestyle
recommendations likely and maybe some natural supplementationand maybe a prescription of it's indicated acutely.
But I'd like you know, anew patient to think of their end
(19:53):
as their partner and whole health.They're a great resource for a second opinion
when things are maybe just not gettingbetter with your conventional provider, or you've
got a chronic health condition. Youneed another fresh to look at what might
be really at the root cause ofyour issue, and be prepared to talk
because you're going to be talking quitea bit. The first visit is usually
an hour, and return office callsare often thirty minutes. It takes time,
(20:17):
and solutions really do take time,so root cause medicine is sometimes slower,
but the result is the goal ofthe result is a cure and not
just medication of like symptoms for life. So this is what the investment of
time can really provide. Yeah,and I'm so glad that you mentioned partnership
because that's one of the key thingsthat I like. It's more of a
collaboration. So if you're a proactivepatient who wants to collaborate with your physician,
(20:45):
naturopathic medicine is really right for you. Now you mentioned your organization,
the Institute for Natural Medicine. Thewebsite is naturemed dot org, and I
want to talk about that more soby way of full disclosure, I want
to let our listeners know that Iam an author with the Institute for Natural
Medicine. Some of my favorite researchand writing that I do. To be
(21:07):
honest with you, doctor Simon,so you tell us a little bit about
what your Your whole website is abouteducating people about natural medicine and naturopathic medicine.
And it's it's really a movement.Why is education so important and why
do they need to go to atrusted source versus just willing really online?
(21:32):
Yeah, I feel really passionate aboutthis, so thank you for asking about
this question. You know, inour country right now, the braining paradigm
is conventional care, but our outcomesare dismal. We're thirty six in the
world on health outcomes. One ofthe three people born this year will develop
diabetes, and the average seventy yearolds on like something like seven different prescription
medications, and still our life expectancyis dropped for the past three years.
(21:55):
So something's not right. And it'snot a matter of finances. We spend
one point five times more than thesecond highest huntter in healthcare spending, so
it's not a shortage of resources thatway. It's our approach, and I
and M we believe there is anotherway. We believe that naturopathic medicine should
be the model for how patient centered, whole health can be delivered. We
think the therapeutic order approach is alogic logical orderly approach. I mean prioritizing
(22:22):
diet and lifestyle, seeking to solvethe root causes when possible, and then
ascending the scale of intervention se verityif necessary. You know what, we
don't always start with the prescription runout of the gate, but it's sometimes
it is what you need, butI think it's common sense care. It
doesn't feed the business of health care, but it helps saves lives, and
I think it helps save money aswell because the interventions are generally less complicated.
(22:48):
So educating the public is how we'regoing to help drive the demand at
the grassroots level. It also helpsempower patients to take control of their health
since there are so many websites thatit to natural health that are invested in
selling supplements and programs, and Ithink it's really wise for the consumer to
seek out information that is non commercialand rooted in scientific evidence, and that's
(23:11):
what we produce. It's we're theonly national nonprofit dedicated to raising awareness about
natural medicine, and we're super proudof our success. And so people can
join at naturemed dot org and joinour newsletter list and gain information about whole
health and how to access it anduse our find natural Doctor database to find
a natural product doctum near them.But we think it's a movement and we're
(23:33):
really super happy to be proud tobe part of that movement. Yeah.
I kind of look at you guysas being right now, you're like the
web MD of natural medicine. Butyou're going to become like the health resource,
So that's where that's our goal.Yeah, that's where people are going
to go for information. And Ithink that that's that's that's where you're headed.
Now. You mentioned some of thethings like the newsletter and such,
(23:55):
But as we were talking, itoccurred to me like if I was thinking
about, you know, seeing anachepathic doctor, but I didn't know what
questions to ask. Tell me alittle bit more about the information that I
will find if I go to naturemeddot org. Yeah, so it there
(24:15):
we can we give information about naturaltherapy approaches to health conditions. We also
promote some of the research about naturaltherapeutics as well. We introduce people to
patient story so you can kind ofget a sense of what somebody else's experience
has been with a natropolite doctor andtheir success and how that can be inspirational
(24:37):
to drive you to maybe want tosee a natro polite doctor for yourself.
We also talk a little bit aboutour programs. So we've got a program
called naturally Well, which is akid's nutritional program. We just actually got
a national award from the Harkin Instituteas having one of the twelve premiere programs
in the country that's doing good thingsto help wellness and children, and that's
(25:00):
we're super proud about that. Wealso have a residency consortium. We educate
doctors fresh out of school and givea two year residency to them. And
we also have a primary care Outreachtask Force where we're working on getting naturopathic
doctors employed in conventional health settings inFQHCs and community health centers, because we
(25:22):
really think having a naturopathic doctor atthe front lines of primary care with this
focus on prevention and diet and lifestylechange is a really smart strategy for community
health. So that's some of thestuff we have there. Yeah, I
would agree with you about primary care. I mean, we're in the conventional
medical model. We're running into ashortages and it's just not working, and
(25:47):
I think that natropathic doctors can reallyfill an important gap there. I highly
recommend our listeners to go to naturemeddot org org nature meed dot org.
Okay, last question, doctor Simon, but you can take your time with
it. What does the future holdfor naturopathic medicine. Well, I will
(26:07):
tell you what my vision is whetherthe future is going to line up with
it. It is yet to bedetermined, But I think there's a movement
happening in this country, particularly notonly in this country, but globally,
where folks are getting back to understandingthat humans are complex. We can't just
reduce our medical therapies to a singleintervention and expect all things to change.
(26:29):
We are three dimensional, very complex, interactive, biochemical, physical, emotional,
spiritual beings and you can't disregard anyone of those things. So a
whole person health approach is what iscoming our way, and natropathic doctors are
specialists in this. We have beenlicensed for over one hundred years in Washington
State. This is not a newkind of approach. We've been doing it
(26:53):
for a long time. But thereally great thing about natropathic medicine is that
while holding onto the roots in thewisdom of nature, we also embrace the
modern science and we meld the two. In fact, one of the really
unique things about natropathic doctors is they'reable to take the latest scientific discoveries,
understand them in the context of howwe view the view the body and the
(27:18):
ability to heal itself, and thenemploy those changes right away. That typically
is not what happens in conventional medicine. The average time for a scientific discovery
to reach mainstream health practice is twentyyears, and that's a long time.
Like lots of things have already changedin twenty years. But nutropothic doctors are
(27:38):
I think lucky in that we areable to change our practice much more quickly
and we take advantage of those right. Yeah. Genetic testing became so widespread,
you know, d's were at thefront lines of helping people understand their
own genome and understand how to implementthat to improve their health and their prevention
(28:02):
as well. Great. Yeah,I would agree, a whole person approach.
That's what nature pathic medicine is allabout. Well, thank you so
much, doctor Simon for joining me. Yeah, thank you, Carolyn.
I've been an honor to speak withyou again, and thank you so much
for your work here in this podcastand also with our organization. We really
value you. Well, thank youso much. Well, that wraps up
this episode of Five to Thrive Liveonce again. I'd like to thank our
(28:22):
sponsors, American Biosciences, makers ofMetatrol and Empower products that contain whek germ
extract and AHCC to supercharge your immunesystem. Immuse post biotic to give your
immune system that extra boost, CognizenCiticolon to help enhance memory, focus and
attention. And of course doctor Ohreis Award winning shelf Stable probiotic. This
(28:45):
has been a great show. Mayyou experience joy, laughter and love.
It's time to thrive. Everyone havea good name. The statement the city
is bannstrative in
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