November 19, 2024 • 27 mins
How much influence does food have on our mental health? As it turns out, a great deal. On this show, Karolyn talks with integrative health pioneer Ronald Hoffman, MD, about how our diet affects our mental health including creating intense emotions like anger. Food is powerful and Dr. Hoffman shares how we can use diet as a means to gain better mental health.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I co host this show with my
good friend, doctor lese aul Schuler. So some would say
we live in angry times right now, and I would
actually agree with that. Could it be that a person's
diet is contributing to that anger? We're gonna out, but
(01:00):
before we dive in, I'd like to thank our sponsors.
Beginning with Amuse, a unique, patented post biotic that gives
your immune system a key advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient
in many immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for Amuse on
the label or go to ammusehealth dot com for more information.
Also cognizanceticoline, which is nature's way of keeping the brain's
(01:21):
energy producing centers firing on all cylinders. If you're looking
for a way to enhance your brain function, including memory, focus,
and attention, look for cognizant on the label or go
to Cognizant dot com for more information. Prothriver's Wellness Brain
is a product that contains Cognizant as well as other
brain supporting nutrients and herbs. You can find Prothriver's Wellness
Brain online at pure formulas dot com. There's also Prothriver's
(01:45):
Wellness Sleep, which combines higher dose melatonin and other sleep
supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers. You can find
Prothriver's Wellness Sleep also at pure formulas dot com. And
doctor ohere is probiotics that's a best selling probiotic for
more thirty years. It contains twelve probatic strains that our
shelf stable so no refrigeration is required because of a
(02:06):
unique three year fermentation process. It's a very effective probiotic.
Learn more at doctor Ohira probiotics dot com. So my
guest is one of my favorite regulars, doctor Ronald Hoffman,
who is really a pioneer in the field of integrative medicine.
He is the author of numerous books and the host
of the popular podcast Intelligent Medicine. Doctor Hoffman, welcome back
(02:29):
to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's a pleasure, Carolyn. It's nice to be back.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, so I love our topic. But before we dig
into the details, why is this topic of how diet
could be contributing to emotions like anger? Why is this
topic even important?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, it's important in the context of what appears to
be an epidemic of mental disorders and violence. Now, surely
some of that has to do with the fact that
our political discourse has devolved to the love of a
punch and judy Shiphow there was recently a term that's
been battied about, but it's actually not a new term.
It's called a migdala hijack, and it's a great term.
(03:11):
It's how a certain part of our brain that's associated
with fear and mistrust can be hijacked by the media,
by politicians, but perhaps by our toxic environment. And at
some level this is about our society, But at another level,
(03:32):
it may have to do with the actual physiology of
our brains that's being undermined in some way by factors
such as our diet.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Right, And that's the fascinating part. And you know, doctor Hoffman,
I was thinking about this, remember a few years ago
when the term angry got popularized. Yeah, so that actually
is something where people get angry when they're hungry. It's
more of a blood sugar issue. We're not talking about that,
We're talking about something different.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Right, Well, no, to some extent, I part and parsival
of this phenomenon is fluctuations in blood sugar. The problem
with the hangry campaign, for I guess it was Snickers,
was that they provided exactly the wrong solution. Is, if
you're feeling angry, you turn from a raging monster into
(04:22):
gentle Betty White, you know, harmless popular figure by taking
a big influx of sugar. And that's precisely the wrong
thing to do, because that'll temporary alleviate your angry send
your blood sugar up, but then you know, what goes
up must come down, and you'll have reactive hypoglycemia and
you'll be even more subject to problems in your thinking
(04:46):
and in your emotions.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, such a good point. So okay, from a mechanistic standpoint,
how does our diet make us angry?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So there may be several reasons for it. One is
that but brain metabolism has a lot to do with
the nutrients we consume. You know, you are what you
eat and your brain functions as well as the fuel
that you provided with one of the dimensions is essential
(05:15):
fatty acids. You know that they're very, very important for
brain function. There are many studies that suggest that EPA
can relieve anxiety and depression, various psychiatric disorders, and there
are actually some studies that look at the link between
aggressiveness and criminality and administration of EPA. In fact, there's
some prison programs that have been undertaken in the UK
(05:37):
and now in Australia where they're giving violent offenders higher
doses of OMEGA three and there's some remarkable testimonials by
individuals who are very violence prone who feel that it's
really made a difference in their impulsivity.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Interesting, and I've been reading a lot and writing a
lot about the gut brain act. What's the connection there?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yes, this is also important because studies and animals suggest
that imbalances in the microbiome are associated with aggressive behavior.
And certainly an ultraprocessed diet can create by virtue of
the lack of fiber and lack of beneficial nutrients, but
also by virtue of the chemicalized constituents of that diet,
(06:27):
can harm the microbiome, can actually change the balance of
bacteria there creating a form of gut toxicity. Shall we
say that creates encephalopathy. There's a known connection between the
gut and the brain in terms of mental disorders, and
so that may be part and parcel of that story.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, the research that I've been writing about is actually
regarding resilience and stress management. So when we have a
healthy gut, less dysbiosis, less leaky gut, we're better able
to manage. I just did a whole show on this
with Doctor Church and it was fascinating. So when it
comes to this whole gut brain access, what surprises you
(07:10):
the most? Or you know, maybe as a physician, nothing
surprises you the most because you've been in integrative medicine
dealing with the gut for you know, decades. But is
there anything that's surprising you a lot with this?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, there's a prospect that we can develop what are
called psychobiotics, which are probiotics that are specifically tailored for
various mental disorders. So it'd be great if we could
find the precise elixir that could be used to tame violence, aggressiveness,
and impulsivity. So far, it may be unfortunately different strokes
(07:43):
for different folks. People have different guts, they have different genetics,
different brains, and it may be that what works for
one person may not work for another. There's another aspect
to this that I want to mention, and it's a
little different. It's the environmental aspect when it comes to
environmental toxins. And it is well known, and this is
(08:03):
a very very established literature that lead toxicity is associated
with the higher levels of criminality, you know, what used
to be referred to as juvenile delinquency. That it really
does change the alter the brain in a way that
predisposes to violence. So it may be that, you know,
(08:26):
that's just one among the cavalcade of chemicals that assault
our brains that may create problems. I mean, there's also
you know, we've we've heard about the twinkie defense. You know,
the notion that blood sugar can can be responsible for
mood changes. People have tried that out, unsuccessfully fortunately for
(08:50):
our judicial system, because that sounds like that's become synonymous
with a ridiculous legal defense, But there is actually something
to that. There's even been a case which where the
defen had lost but claimed an msg connection to an
episode of violence. He massacred people famously at a fast
(09:13):
food eatery in southern California and claimed that it was
caused by the MSG that was laced into the food.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, that's extreme examples. But let's get back to the diet,
because you know, we know that the diet can play
a role. So what are some practical ways to improve
the diet to actually reduce anger. What's at the top
of your list when it comes to dietary changes.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I would say essential fatty acids. I think they're ultra important.
And we know we think of the diets especially of
you know, people who are disadvantaged, people who are in
food deserts, the homeless, and it's virtually bereft of essential
fatty acids and they're very, very important for affecting mood.
So if we could administer fish oil or you know,
(10:03):
increase the amount of EFAs and the diet of these people,
which is generally very poor, that can make a difference.
Magnesium could make a difference because magnesium stabilizes neuronal activity
in the brain and could have a colmative effect. We
know that magnesium before bedtime is a recipe for sleep
(10:25):
and relaxation. That could be important. Adequate fiber to support
the microbiome that I think could be an important addition
and avoidance of ultra processed foods ultimately, because they really,
you know, have so many deleterious effects and they don't
provide any of the beneficial nutrients.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Okay, Oh sorry, I wanted to get a couple of
clarifications from you, because you've brought up a couple of
good points. Remind our listeners when it comes to process foods,
what are we talking about? What should they be avoiding.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Well process foods. Yeah, it's actually a good question because
recently the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee that's supposed to set
up the Dietary Guidelines for America for twenty twenty five
to twenty thirty, they whift on recommending that Americans to
avoid ultra processed foods because they said, oh, the definition
is so controversial, you know that we can't really speak
(11:22):
to that. But look, I mean there are certain commonalities
and they're actually definitions which talk about highly processed refined
oils as an ingredient, multiple colorings and additives and flavorings
that are artificial food that is highly processed so that
(11:44):
the fiber is virtually taken out of it. Foods that
have you know, ingredients that really are foreign to our
human digestive systems, know, are not part of our heritage
of food intake. These are the food you know and
(12:05):
highly and sugar. You know, sugar I think is the
number one aberration in our diet. The amount of sugar
that we now consume is so far away from our
evolutionary origins that you know, highly sugar foods which are
ubiquitous really fall into the category of process And there's
some surprises here too, because bread, for example, it's a
(12:26):
processed food, and you know, there are healthy breads, but
there are also many breads that are trojan horses for
hydrogenated fats, lots of sugar, lots of chemicalized flavorings and colorings,
so that they're ultimately, you know, not that wholesome.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, and I would add fast foods. You know, Lisa
and I have a Yeah, we have a saying that
if you have to drive through to get it, keep driving.
Try to try to re reduce those fast foods. So
back to e fase essential fatty acids. I know that
you and I have written about and talked a lot
about supplements, but what are some great food sources of
(13:05):
essential fatty acids that can help with mood and this
whole gut brain connection.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, if you're a vegetarian, of you know, flax oil
is a great source of alphaline olenic acid, which is
a precursor to E p A and DHA, which is
essential for the brain. But if you are on an
omni diet, fish that's rich in omega threees such as
salmon is a great choice. And also to the extent
(13:36):
that you choose grass fed animal proteins, eggs and so on,
or naturally pastured eggs and dairy products, you're going to
get some of those omega threes to a greater extent
than if the animals are grain fed, so that's one
(13:57):
of the major sources. Then of course there's the supplementation
with fish oil capsules containing EPA DHA. If you're vegetarian,
you can take algae based products which provide high levels
of DHA, so there's always a workaround.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, and I'm glad that you mentioned grass fed beef
because I think sometimes red meat gets a little vilified,
and the research actually shows that grass fed beef has
an equal amount of E fas to fish, so it
is very high in essential fatty acids, which I think
(14:38):
is an important clarification for people who do like to
eat grass fed beef kind of in moderation. What about
nutritional deficiencies that come from a poor diet. Is that
something that's on your radar?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Well, absolutely, And I think the number one I mentioned
earlier magnesium, and magnesium is a stabilizer for nerve impulses
and to the extent that violent impulses are sort of
a seizure of the emotional part of the brain. Magnesium
has been shown to have an anti seizure activity and
(15:15):
it therefore may have a stabilizing effect for people who
are prone to violent behaviors, So that I think is important.
I also think that you know, you could claim a
role for the B vitamins, you know, which also have
an important role in brain metabolism. And of course ultra
(15:36):
processed diets are often bereft of magnesium, b vitamins, critical
minerals like zinc, so that I think complicates the problem.
You know, I would really love to see, you know,
when we're doing an investigation criminal justice system to do
for every violent crime that's committed, you know, these mass
(15:59):
shootings and so on, to do a post mortem from
the standpoint of nutrition, but also from the standpoint unfortunately
of some of the psychiatric medications, which I believe have
benefits in terms of their antidepressant anti anxiety effects, but
there is documentation that they can take individuals who are,
(16:19):
you know, perhaps hesitant about committing act to violence and
turning them into stone cold killers. It's sort of making
them dispassionate about and kind of abstracted from the emotions
associated with taking a life.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Such a good point. Yeah, and the medications don't you know,
impact nutrients, status or do they have any of those
contraindications at all.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Well, they do to some extent, and you know, and
I think that, you know, we have to look at
a medication history in some cases, but it is intrinsic
to the medications that they may cause people to become
zombie like or have lack of affect. Affect is what
(17:06):
sometimes prevents us from doing heinous things, and by depriving
us of the restraint associated with fear and loathing, we
may have less in the way of anxiety, but it
may also propel us into the realm of violent X.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah. So we've talked about things to avoid and we
talked about specific nutrients and fiber and things like that.
How beneficial are fruits and vegetables and what do they
bring to the game when it comes to mental health.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Well, I think what we're talking about here is the
beneficial polyphenols. We know that they're helpful for brain health,
also the fiver that they impart to the gastro intestinal tract.
But to flip the argument a little bit on its head,
some people are advocating for a keto diet, and a
keto diet actually may downplay fruits which contain natural sugars
(18:04):
and which may be salutary for certain types of brain disorders,
even things as severe as a schizophrenia, psychosis, obsessive compulsive disorder,
and bipolar disorder. And there's a burgeoning literature that looks
at diets which are kind of towards the carnivorouside. Not necessarily,
but it's hard to achieve ketosis on a purely plant
(18:27):
based diet where you switch brain chemistry to not bring
metallism to not depending on ups and downs of blood sugar,
but a more of a steady state reliance on ketones,
which may stabilize brain impulses.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, It's a really good point. So back to dietary supplements.
You mentioned magnesium essential fatty acids of fish oil as
a dietary supplement. You briefly mentioned probiotics. Are there any
other dietariors supplements that you'd like to mention before I
move on?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I think that zinc may have a beneficial effects for
branin and you know, and I think a generous complement
of B vitamins. I would also suggest that people consume
adequate to iron because iron, especially for young women who
are menstruating or child bearing age, these can affect brain
(19:26):
function in a big way.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Hmm. Yeah. Absolutely, So when it comes to your bottom line,
can diet actually increase anger and other intense emotions?
Speaker 3 (19:43):
There's no question in my mind, and I really like
to see you know, look, prison food is notoriously bad.
And I think that one of the great reforms that
we could initiate to our you know, criminal just a
system is to introduce better quality foods, even supplements into
(20:06):
our prisons and you know, our juvenile facilities as a
way of facilitating not just punishment, but meaningful recovery. I
think that that is and this is being tried in
other places Australia, the UK, other countries are exploring this.
I think it's really worth at least some pilot projects
(20:27):
to see if it makes a difference. It may sound frivolous,
you know, you know, giving health food to people who
are basically in punitive situation. You know, we shouldn't be
giving them the luxury of like these, you know, arugula
and avocados. But I think would make sense, and it
would actually save us money that we're expending on warehousing
(20:49):
a lot of people in these facilities and mental health
facilities as well.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh, I agree, and it would benefit the community in
the long haul, just because there would be less potential violence.
I think that. I think I would love to see
that as well. So let's say somebody is not having
an anger issue, but they have a loved one who
has an anger issue, and now after hearing you, they
(21:14):
realize that, oh boy, this could be dietary related. How
does that loved one help influence this angry loved one.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It's tough. You know, you can bring a horse to water,
but you can't make them drink. But I think that
you know, it's it really it's almost like a form
of bottoming out. You know, when people join AA, it's
usually after you know, some terrible experience where they have
a revelation that this is a path that's going to
lead them to destruction and death. And I think that
(21:48):
you people have to have an epiphany, personal epiphany that
they need to change. It's it's hard to impose change
from the outside. And you know, so a lot of
like you say, a lot of well, many people will say, oh,
you know, I know someone who is in this predicament,
you know, a child or grandchild. Uh, it's going to
be tough unless that person really hits the wall in
(22:11):
terms of, you know, running out of options and wants
to explore something new. Unfortunately, I think that's the way
people change.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, it's a good point. So where can people find
out more about you and your work? Do you have
a website you'd like to share?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Well? Absolutely, Dear Hoffman dot com is the hub for
all things related to podcasts and interviews that I do,
my radio program, my social media, uh, and a newsletter
where we take up subjects like this. You know this,
the relationship between diet and mental health has been a
hot topic over the past couple of years, and you know,
(22:48):
We've interviewed quite a few people, doctor Chris Palmer, doctor
Drew Ramsey, who are really pioneers in exploring the link
between diet UH and mental health. And I think this
is a really burgeoning area in the field of psychiatry.
And hopefully he applied to criminal justice because we're a
very very violent country and you know, we got to
(23:11):
really do something about it. And I'm not sure that
you know, simply putting more people in prison or you know,
even gun control is going to curb that epidemic.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I would agree, And that is d R. Hoffman
h O F F M A N dot com. I
highly recommend you go there and sign up for the newsletter. H.
I actually got this idea, doctor Hoffman, from your newsletter.
I'm an avid, avid reader of your newsletter. I'm also
I have been a guest on your podcast Intelligent Medicine,
(23:43):
and I know doctor Alschuler has been a guest on
your podcast Intelligent Medicine. If people want to tune into that,
what can they expect to what what kind of topics
can they expect to learn about on your podcast Intelligent Medicine, Well,
we run.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
The gamut, you know, from h you know we're talking
a little bit about the politics of medicine, you know,
especially with what's happening on the on the political front,
but we also talk about specific supplements, and we talk
about topics related you know, digestive health, heart health, mental health,
universally every organ system of the body, exercises a big topic,
(24:20):
sleep and so on. All the components that you know,
put together we put under the rubric of intelligent medicine.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, absolutely definitely listen to Intelligent Medicine and definitely go
to doctor Hoffman dot com and sign up for the newsletter.
Doctor Hoffman, I'm going to give you one last chance
to give us any more information about how people can
help reduce their anger issues through diet.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Stabilized blood sugar, take essential fatty acids, avoid exposure to
toxins like lead, and be judicious about the use of
psychiatric medications which and actually in some cases backfire when
it comes to violent episodes according to what we're seeing, right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I know that our topic today is diet, but
I also know that you are a huge athlete, so
I would imagine that you encourage your patience to exercise.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Thank you for mentioning that because I think exercise is
actually a great outlet, and especially for young people. You know,
if you can get a kid involved in organized sports,
you know, swimming, football, team sports, it can really be
their salvation because it channels a lot of that aggressive
energy into a structured experience where people learn the rules
(25:38):
and can abide by them.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Absolutely, and there's so many health benefits as well. So well,
this has been great. Thanks again, doctor Hoffman for joining
me to talk about this important subject.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Indeed, it's always a pleasure. We are a mutual admiration society.
I enjoy having you on as well.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yes, right, well I'm sure i'll have you back on
early next year because well, I think we're going to
be doing this once a quarter, so our listeners are
getting used to you. So thanks again for joining me,
and that wraps up this episode of five to Thrive Live.
Once again. I'd like to thank our sponsors, pro Thriver's
Wellness Sleep Formula, Immuse post biotic to give your immune
(26:17):
system that extra boost, cognizance, Citicoline to help enhance memory,
focus and attention, pro Thriver's Wellness Brain, and of course
doctor Ohira's award winning shelf stable Probiotic. This has been
a great show. Maybe you experience joy, laughter and love.
It's time to thrive. Everyone, have a good night, and
(27:00):
ye
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I co host this show with my
good friend, doctor lese aul Schuler. So some would say
we live in angry times right now, and I would
actually agree with that. Could it be that a person's
diet is contributing to that anger? We're gonna out, but
(01:00):
before we dive in, I'd like to thank our sponsors.
Beginning with Amuse, a unique, patented post biotic that gives
your immune system a key advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient
in many immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for Amuse on
the label or go to ammusehealth dot com for more information.
Also cognizanceticoline, which is nature's way of keeping the brain's
(01:21):
energy producing centers firing on all cylinders. If you're looking
for a way to enhance your brain function, including memory, focus,
and attention, look for cognizant on the label or go
to Cognizant dot com for more information. Prothriver's Wellness Brain
is a product that contains Cognizant as well as other
brain supporting nutrients and herbs. You can find Prothriver's Wellness
Brain online at pure formulas dot com. There's also Prothriver's
(01:45):
Wellness Sleep, which combines higher dose melatonin and other sleep
supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers. You can find
Prothriver's Wellness Sleep also at pure formulas dot com. And
doctor ohere is probiotics that's a best selling probiotic for
more thirty years. It contains twelve probatic strains that our
shelf stable so no refrigeration is required because of a
(02:06):
unique three year fermentation process. It's a very effective probiotic.
Learn more at doctor Ohira probiotics dot com. So my
guest is one of my favorite regulars, doctor Ronald Hoffman,
who is really a pioneer in the field of integrative medicine.
He is the author of numerous books and the host
of the popular podcast Intelligent Medicine. Doctor Hoffman, welcome back
(02:29):
to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's a pleasure, Carolyn. It's nice to be back.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, so I love our topic. But before we dig
into the details, why is this topic of how diet
could be contributing to emotions like anger? Why is this
topic even important?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, it's important in the context of what appears to
be an epidemic of mental disorders and violence. Now, surely
some of that has to do with the fact that
our political discourse has devolved to the love of a
punch and judy Shiphow there was recently a term that's
been battied about, but it's actually not a new term.
It's called a migdala hijack, and it's a great term.
(03:11):
It's how a certain part of our brain that's associated
with fear and mistrust can be hijacked by the media,
by politicians, but perhaps by our toxic environment. And at
some level this is about our society, But at another level,
(03:32):
it may have to do with the actual physiology of
our brains that's being undermined in some way by factors
such as our diet.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Right, And that's the fascinating part. And you know, doctor Hoffman,
I was thinking about this, remember a few years ago
when the term angry got popularized. Yeah, so that actually
is something where people get angry when they're hungry. It's
more of a blood sugar issue. We're not talking about that,
We're talking about something different.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Right, Well, no, to some extent, I part and parsival
of this phenomenon is fluctuations in blood sugar. The problem
with the hangry campaign, for I guess it was Snickers,
was that they provided exactly the wrong solution. Is, if
you're feeling angry, you turn from a raging monster into
(04:22):
gentle Betty White, you know, harmless popular figure by taking
a big influx of sugar. And that's precisely the wrong
thing to do, because that'll temporary alleviate your angry send
your blood sugar up, but then you know, what goes
up must come down, and you'll have reactive hypoglycemia and
you'll be even more subject to problems in your thinking
(04:46):
and in your emotions.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, such a good point. So okay, from a mechanistic standpoint,
how does our diet make us angry?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So there may be several reasons for it. One is
that but brain metabolism has a lot to do with
the nutrients we consume. You know, you are what you
eat and your brain functions as well as the fuel
that you provided with one of the dimensions is essential
(05:15):
fatty acids. You know that they're very, very important for
brain function. There are many studies that suggest that EPA
can relieve anxiety and depression, various psychiatric disorders, and there
are actually some studies that look at the link between
aggressiveness and criminality and administration of EPA. In fact, there's
some prison programs that have been undertaken in the UK
(05:37):
and now in Australia where they're giving violent offenders higher
doses of OMEGA three and there's some remarkable testimonials by
individuals who are very violence prone who feel that it's
really made a difference in their impulsivity.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Interesting, and I've been reading a lot and writing a
lot about the gut brain act. What's the connection there?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yes, this is also important because studies and animals suggest
that imbalances in the microbiome are associated with aggressive behavior.
And certainly an ultraprocessed diet can create by virtue of
the lack of fiber and lack of beneficial nutrients, but
also by virtue of the chemicalized constituents of that diet,
(06:27):
can harm the microbiome, can actually change the balance of
bacteria there creating a form of gut toxicity. Shall we
say that creates encephalopathy. There's a known connection between the
gut and the brain in terms of mental disorders, and
so that may be part and parcel of that story.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, the research that I've been writing about is actually
regarding resilience and stress management. So when we have a
healthy gut, less dysbiosis, less leaky gut, we're better able
to manage. I just did a whole show on this
with Doctor Church and it was fascinating. So when it
comes to this whole gut brain access, what surprises you
(07:10):
the most? Or you know, maybe as a physician, nothing
surprises you the most because you've been in integrative medicine
dealing with the gut for you know, decades. But is
there anything that's surprising you a lot with this?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, there's a prospect that we can develop what are
called psychobiotics, which are probiotics that are specifically tailored for
various mental disorders. So it'd be great if we could
find the precise elixir that could be used to tame violence, aggressiveness,
and impulsivity. So far, it may be unfortunately different strokes
(07:43):
for different folks. People have different guts, they have different genetics,
different brains, and it may be that what works for
one person may not work for another. There's another aspect
to this that I want to mention, and it's a
little different. It's the environmental aspect when it comes to
environmental toxins. And it is well known, and this is
(08:03):
a very very established literature that lead toxicity is associated
with the higher levels of criminality, you know, what used
to be referred to as juvenile delinquency. That it really
does change the alter the brain in a way that
predisposes to violence. So it may be that, you know,
(08:26):
that's just one among the cavalcade of chemicals that assault
our brains that may create problems. I mean, there's also
you know, we've we've heard about the twinkie defense. You know,
the notion that blood sugar can can be responsible for
mood changes. People have tried that out, unsuccessfully fortunately for
(08:50):
our judicial system, because that sounds like that's become synonymous
with a ridiculous legal defense, But there is actually something
to that. There's even been a case which where the
defen had lost but claimed an msg connection to an
episode of violence. He massacred people famously at a fast
(09:13):
food eatery in southern California and claimed that it was
caused by the MSG that was laced into the food.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, that's extreme examples. But let's get back to the diet,
because you know, we know that the diet can play
a role. So what are some practical ways to improve
the diet to actually reduce anger. What's at the top
of your list when it comes to dietary changes.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I would say essential fatty acids. I think they're ultra important.
And we know we think of the diets especially of
you know, people who are disadvantaged, people who are in
food deserts, the homeless, and it's virtually bereft of essential
fatty acids and they're very, very important for affecting mood.
So if we could administer fish oil or you know,
(10:03):
increase the amount of EFAs and the diet of these people,
which is generally very poor, that can make a difference.
Magnesium could make a difference because magnesium stabilizes neuronal activity
in the brain and could have a colmative effect. We
know that magnesium before bedtime is a recipe for sleep
(10:25):
and relaxation. That could be important. Adequate fiber to support
the microbiome that I think could be an important addition
and avoidance of ultra processed foods ultimately, because they really,
you know, have so many deleterious effects and they don't
provide any of the beneficial nutrients.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Okay, Oh sorry, I wanted to get a couple of
clarifications from you, because you've brought up a couple of
good points. Remind our listeners when it comes to process foods,
what are we talking about? What should they be avoiding.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Well process foods. Yeah, it's actually a good question because
recently the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee that's supposed to set
up the Dietary Guidelines for America for twenty twenty five
to twenty thirty, they whift on recommending that Americans to
avoid ultra processed foods because they said, oh, the definition
is so controversial, you know that we can't really speak
(11:22):
to that. But look, I mean there are certain commonalities
and they're actually definitions which talk about highly processed refined
oils as an ingredient, multiple colorings and additives and flavorings
that are artificial food that is highly processed so that
(11:44):
the fiber is virtually taken out of it. Foods that
have you know, ingredients that really are foreign to our
human digestive systems, know, are not part of our heritage
of food intake. These are the food you know and
(12:05):
highly and sugar. You know, sugar I think is the
number one aberration in our diet. The amount of sugar
that we now consume is so far away from our
evolutionary origins that you know, highly sugar foods which are
ubiquitous really fall into the category of process And there's
some surprises here too, because bread, for example, it's a
(12:26):
processed food, and you know, there are healthy breads, but
there are also many breads that are trojan horses for
hydrogenated fats, lots of sugar, lots of chemicalized flavorings and colorings,
so that they're ultimately, you know, not that wholesome.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, and I would add fast foods. You know, Lisa
and I have a Yeah, we have a saying that
if you have to drive through to get it, keep driving.
Try to try to re reduce those fast foods. So
back to e fase essential fatty acids. I know that
you and I have written about and talked a lot
about supplements, but what are some great food sources of
(13:05):
essential fatty acids that can help with mood and this
whole gut brain connection.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, if you're a vegetarian, of you know, flax oil
is a great source of alphaline olenic acid, which is
a precursor to E p A and DHA, which is
essential for the brain. But if you are on an
omni diet, fish that's rich in omega threees such as
salmon is a great choice. And also to the extent
(13:36):
that you choose grass fed animal proteins, eggs and so on,
or naturally pastured eggs and dairy products, you're going to
get some of those omega threes to a greater extent
than if the animals are grain fed, so that's one
(13:57):
of the major sources. Then of course there's the supplementation
with fish oil capsules containing EPA DHA. If you're vegetarian,
you can take algae based products which provide high levels
of DHA, so there's always a workaround.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, and I'm glad that you mentioned grass fed beef
because I think sometimes red meat gets a little vilified,
and the research actually shows that grass fed beef has
an equal amount of E fas to fish, so it
is very high in essential fatty acids, which I think
(14:38):
is an important clarification for people who do like to
eat grass fed beef kind of in moderation. What about
nutritional deficiencies that come from a poor diet. Is that
something that's on your radar?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Well, absolutely, And I think the number one I mentioned
earlier magnesium, and magnesium is a stabilizer for nerve impulses
and to the extent that violent impulses are sort of
a seizure of the emotional part of the brain. Magnesium
has been shown to have an anti seizure activity and
(15:15):
it therefore may have a stabilizing effect for people who
are prone to violent behaviors, So that I think is important.
I also think that you know, you could claim a
role for the B vitamins, you know, which also have
an important role in brain metabolism. And of course ultra
(15:36):
processed diets are often bereft of magnesium, b vitamins, critical
minerals like zinc, so that I think complicates the problem.
You know, I would really love to see, you know,
when we're doing an investigation criminal justice system to do
for every violent crime that's committed, you know, these mass
(15:59):
shootings and so on, to do a post mortem from
the standpoint of nutrition, but also from the standpoint unfortunately
of some of the psychiatric medications, which I believe have
benefits in terms of their antidepressant anti anxiety effects, but
there is documentation that they can take individuals who are,
(16:19):
you know, perhaps hesitant about committing act to violence and
turning them into stone cold killers. It's sort of making
them dispassionate about and kind of abstracted from the emotions
associated with taking a life.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Such a good point. Yeah, and the medications don't you know,
impact nutrients, status or do they have any of those
contraindications at all.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Well, they do to some extent, and you know, and
I think that, you know, we have to look at
a medication history in some cases, but it is intrinsic
to the medications that they may cause people to become
zombie like or have lack of affect. Affect is what
(17:06):
sometimes prevents us from doing heinous things, and by depriving
us of the restraint associated with fear and loathing, we
may have less in the way of anxiety, but it
may also propel us into the realm of violent X.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah. So we've talked about things to avoid and we
talked about specific nutrients and fiber and things like that.
How beneficial are fruits and vegetables and what do they
bring to the game when it comes to mental health.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Well, I think what we're talking about here is the
beneficial polyphenols. We know that they're helpful for brain health,
also the fiver that they impart to the gastro intestinal tract.
But to flip the argument a little bit on its head,
some people are advocating for a keto diet, and a
keto diet actually may downplay fruits which contain natural sugars
(18:04):
and which may be salutary for certain types of brain disorders,
even things as severe as a schizophrenia, psychosis, obsessive compulsive disorder,
and bipolar disorder. And there's a burgeoning literature that looks
at diets which are kind of towards the carnivorouside. Not necessarily,
but it's hard to achieve ketosis on a purely plant
(18:27):
based diet where you switch brain chemistry to not bring
metallism to not depending on ups and downs of blood sugar,
but a more of a steady state reliance on ketones,
which may stabilize brain impulses.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, It's a really good point. So back to dietary supplements.
You mentioned magnesium essential fatty acids of fish oil as
a dietary supplement. You briefly mentioned probiotics. Are there any
other dietariors supplements that you'd like to mention before I
move on?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I think that zinc may have a beneficial effects for
branin and you know, and I think a generous complement
of B vitamins. I would also suggest that people consume
adequate to iron because iron, especially for young women who
are menstruating or child bearing age, these can affect brain
(19:26):
function in a big way.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Hmm. Yeah. Absolutely, So when it comes to your bottom line,
can diet actually increase anger and other intense emotions?
Speaker 3 (19:43):
There's no question in my mind, and I really like
to see you know, look, prison food is notoriously bad.
And I think that one of the great reforms that
we could initiate to our you know, criminal just a
system is to introduce better quality foods, even supplements into
(20:06):
our prisons and you know, our juvenile facilities as a
way of facilitating not just punishment, but meaningful recovery. I
think that that is and this is being tried in
other places Australia, the UK, other countries are exploring this.
I think it's really worth at least some pilot projects
(20:27):
to see if it makes a difference. It may sound frivolous,
you know, you know, giving health food to people who
are basically in punitive situation. You know, we shouldn't be
giving them the luxury of like these, you know, arugula
and avocados. But I think would make sense, and it
would actually save us money that we're expending on warehousing
(20:49):
a lot of people in these facilities and mental health
facilities as well.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh, I agree, and it would benefit the community in
the long haul, just because there would be less potential violence.
I think that. I think I would love to see
that as well. So let's say somebody is not having
an anger issue, but they have a loved one who
has an anger issue, and now after hearing you, they
(21:14):
realize that, oh boy, this could be dietary related. How
does that loved one help influence this angry loved one.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It's tough. You know, you can bring a horse to water,
but you can't make them drink. But I think that
you know, it's it really it's almost like a form
of bottoming out. You know, when people join AA, it's
usually after you know, some terrible experience where they have
a revelation that this is a path that's going to
lead them to destruction and death. And I think that
(21:48):
you people have to have an epiphany, personal epiphany that
they need to change. It's it's hard to impose change
from the outside. And you know, so a lot of
like you say, a lot of well, many people will say, oh,
you know, I know someone who is in this predicament,
you know, a child or grandchild. Uh, it's going to
be tough unless that person really hits the wall in
(22:11):
terms of, you know, running out of options and wants
to explore something new. Unfortunately, I think that's the way
people change.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, it's a good point. So where can people find
out more about you and your work? Do you have
a website you'd like to share?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Well? Absolutely, Dear Hoffman dot com is the hub for
all things related to podcasts and interviews that I do,
my radio program, my social media, uh, and a newsletter
where we take up subjects like this. You know this,
the relationship between diet and mental health has been a
hot topic over the past couple of years, and you know,
(22:48):
We've interviewed quite a few people, doctor Chris Palmer, doctor
Drew Ramsey, who are really pioneers in exploring the link
between diet UH and mental health. And I think this
is a really burgeoning area in the field of psychiatry.
And hopefully he applied to criminal justice because we're a
very very violent country and you know, we got to
(23:11):
really do something about it. And I'm not sure that
you know, simply putting more people in prison or you know,
even gun control is going to curb that epidemic.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I would agree, And that is d R. Hoffman
h O F F M A N dot com. I
highly recommend you go there and sign up for the newsletter. H.
I actually got this idea, doctor Hoffman, from your newsletter.
I'm an avid, avid reader of your newsletter. I'm also
I have been a guest on your podcast Intelligent Medicine,
(23:43):
and I know doctor Alschuler has been a guest on
your podcast Intelligent Medicine. If people want to tune into that,
what can they expect to what what kind of topics
can they expect to learn about on your podcast Intelligent Medicine, Well,
we run.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
The gamut, you know, from h you know we're talking
a little bit about the politics of medicine, you know,
especially with what's happening on the on the political front,
but we also talk about specific supplements, and we talk
about topics related you know, digestive health, heart health, mental health,
universally every organ system of the body, exercises a big topic,
(24:20):
sleep and so on. All the components that you know,
put together we put under the rubric of intelligent medicine.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, absolutely definitely listen to Intelligent Medicine and definitely go
to doctor Hoffman dot com and sign up for the newsletter.
Doctor Hoffman, I'm going to give you one last chance
to give us any more information about how people can
help reduce their anger issues through diet.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Stabilized blood sugar, take essential fatty acids, avoid exposure to
toxins like lead, and be judicious about the use of
psychiatric medications which and actually in some cases backfire when
it comes to violent episodes according to what we're seeing, right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I know that our topic today is diet, but
I also know that you are a huge athlete, so
I would imagine that you encourage your patience to exercise.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Thank you for mentioning that because I think exercise is
actually a great outlet, and especially for young people. You know,
if you can get a kid involved in organized sports,
you know, swimming, football, team sports, it can really be
their salvation because it channels a lot of that aggressive
energy into a structured experience where people learn the rules
(25:38):
and can abide by them.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Absolutely, and there's so many health benefits as well. So well,
this has been great. Thanks again, doctor Hoffman for joining
me to talk about this important subject.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Indeed, it's always a pleasure. We are a mutual admiration society.
I enjoy having you on as well.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yes, right, well I'm sure i'll have you back on
early next year because well, I think we're going to
be doing this once a quarter, so our listeners are
getting used to you. So thanks again for joining me,
and that wraps up this episode of five to Thrive Live.
Once again. I'd like to thank our sponsors, pro Thriver's
Wellness Sleep Formula, Immuse post biotic to give your immune
(26:17):
system that extra boost, cognizance, Citicoline to help enhance memory,
focus and attention, pro Thriver's Wellness Brain, and of course
doctor Ohira's award winning shelf stable Probiotic. This has been
a great show. Maybe you experience joy, laughter and love.
It's time to thrive. Everyone, have a good night, and
(27:00):
ye
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