November 16, 2023 • 29 mins
On this show Karolyn talks with pharmacist, best-selling author, and natural health expert Ross Pelton, RPh, about the importance of a healthy gut microbiome. In simple terms, Ross explains this complex system and how it impacts nearly every major body system from immunity to mood and even appetite. Ross then provides practice advice on how to naturally support a healthy gut microbiome.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:45):
Carolyn Gazella and I co host theshow with my good friend, doctor lesh
Olschuler. Okay, I'm gonna admitsomething. I am obsessed with the gut
microbiome. It seems like every monthI'm reading a new research study about the
wonerful impact that gut microbiome has onhealth. And that's our topic today.
But first I'd like to thank oursponsors, beginning with NFH, an innovative
(01:10):
dietary supplement manufacturer that uses an evidencebased approach to creating dietary supplements for integrative
healthcare professionals. If you want highquality dietary supplements, ask your integrative practitioner
about NFH products. You can alsofind more information at NFH dot ca.
Emmuse is a unique, patented postbiotic that gives your immune system a key
(01:30):
advantage. Immuse is an ingredient inmany immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for
Ammuse on the label or go toImmusehealth dot com for more information. Also
cognizance citicoli, which is nature's answerto keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing
and all cylinders. If you're lookingfor a way to enhance your brain function
(01:51):
including memory, focus and attention,look for cognizant on the label or go
to cognizm dot com for more information. And dot du oheres probi It's a
best selling probiotic for more than thirtyyears. It contains twelve probiotic strains that
are shelf stable, so no refrigerationis required. Because of a unique three
year fermentation process, It's a veryeffective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira
(02:14):
probiotics dot com. So with MeToday is one of my regular guests who
happens to be an expert on thegut microbiome. Ross Pelton is also known
as the Natural Pharmacist. Not onlyis he a registered pharmacist and clinical nutrition
expert, he is the author ofmany popular books. Ross Welcome back to
the show. Hi, Carolyn.It's always a pleasure to be on your
(02:36):
show. With you and I too, am obsessed by the gut microbiome.
I know we share that, weshare that passion. So let's start out
very broad because some of our listenersmay not know what the gut microbiome is.
So tell us about what the gutmicrobiome is. Well, sure,
Carolyn, the gut microbiome is anecosystem in the gastro testinal track. And
(03:01):
everybody knows that. Most people knowabout the good bacteria, the probiotics,
but that's not the whole story.The whole ecosystem is the bacteria and the
foods that we ingest that feed thebacteria, and the whole lining of the
gastrointestinal track that has to be ingood shape. So that's the whole ecosystem,
(03:21):
the lining, the bacteria, andthe foods that we feed the bacteria.
And then the next step in thisprocess is the compounds that the bacteria
create if they are fed correctly.And I regularly tell people, if you
don't feed your probiotic bacteria, well, they will not thrive and survive.
(03:42):
That's really critical. And I thinkwe're finding out ross that the scientific literature
is bearing that out, that it'snot just about probiotics. It's about the
food that we feed those probiotics andthe good bacteria. And as always with
you, Ross, I like tobegin with talk about research, and I
want to start discussing a paper yourecently published titled the Microbiome Theory of Aging.
(04:05):
Really great paper, by the way, give us a few of the
key takeaways from that paper, sure, Carolyn, I'm happy to, and
in the show notes we can posta link to that so everybody can get
in a copy of this paper.But one of the things I highlight in
this paper I wrote is that fora long time, people have intuitively known
(04:27):
that probiotic bacteria provide health benefits,but nobody really understood the mechanism of action.
So that's what I'm trying to elucidatein my paper. And turns out
that the job of your probiotic bacteriais to break down compounds in the food
that we supply them and create secondarycompounds that we call post biotic metabolites.
(04:50):
So what we're learning is that it'sthese post biotic metabolites that are master health
regulating compounds, not just for thegas intestinal tract, but they get absorbed
systemically and influence every single organ systemin your body, especially your brain and
your immune system. So it's notspecifically just the probiotic bacteria, but at
(05:13):
the compounds that bacteria create, thesepost biotic metabolites that really regulate your health.
But a really disturbing fact, Carolyn, is that I have multiple studies
that say that from ninety to ninetyfive percent of American children and adults are
not consuming adequate amounts of the typesof foods that feed their probiotic bacteria.
(05:36):
And the two basic food groups forprobiotic bacteria are dietary fibers and compounds called
polyphenols. And for people that aren'tfamiliar with polyphenols, there are a lot
of the compounds that are responsible forthe color and fruits and vegetables, and
there's over eighty thousand of them,excuse me, eight thousand of them that
(05:57):
have been structurally identified. But thesepolyphenols and also dietary fibers, we do
not digest them well. Polyphenols aremammoth large molecules and many of them go
straight through the digestive fact unchanged,and we do not contain the enzymes that
enable us to digest dietary fibers fromplant based foods and so those dietary fibers
(06:21):
also go all the way through yourdigestive tract. But when these polyphenols and
dietary fibers reach your colon, they'rethe food for your probiotic bacteria, and
the probiotic bacteria break them down intosmall, smaller compounds, these post biotic
metabolites that have a wide range ofdifferent types of biological activities. So this
(06:43):
is a critical part of our health. Yeah, you mentioned so many good
things. First of all, thefact that the gut health influences all these
other organ systems, in particular brainand immune, and we've been reading about
the gut immune gut brain connection,and I want to talk about diet in
more detail. But what happens whenthe microbiome is not healthy, Well,
(07:09):
that's the real crux of the microbiometheory of aging, educating people about what
happens when they don't maintain an optimalpopulation of good bacteria in their digestive tract.
When you get out of balance withyour bacteria, if you have too
many bad bacteria not enough good bacteria, that creates a condition that we call
(07:30):
dysbiosis. And when this bacterial imbalanceoccurs, common symptoms are gas and bloating,
inflammation and pain, often diarrhea,sometimes constipation. So those are the
symptoms that are associated with this bacterialimbalance that we call dysbiosis. But the
(07:53):
gut inflammation that is caused by thisimbalance in the bacteria, when you get
too many of the bad bacteria,they cause inflammation in the gastonetestinal track and
that results in a breakdown of thetight junctions that hold the cells that line
the gastrointestinal track tight together. Thatallows compounds to leak from your gastonetestinal track
(08:16):
into your systemic circulation. And someof these compounds, especially ones called lipopolysaccharider
LPs, they are highly inflammatory andthey're associated with conditions of neurological conditions like
Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease and cardiovasculardiseases, and so the whole range of
(08:39):
common diseases are associated with chronic inflammation. And there's one study I like to
quote in some of my presentations thatwas published in twenty twenty one. The
title of it is Modern World Influenceson the Microbiome and their Consequences for Immune
mediated Disease, And one of theconclusion the authors made in this study,
(09:01):
they say, it is now clearthat the depletion of microbial metabolites beneficial to
host health is associated with a rapidrise in non communicable chronic diseases. So
here's a study in the Journal ofImmunology that's telling us that it's the lack
or the depletion of these post bioticmetabolites it's really associated with a lot of
(09:24):
our chronic diseases. Yeah, andyou brought up a really critical point because
I think when people hear gut theythink about gut symptoms, you know,
oh, gas floating and whatnot.But what you're telling us is that this
gut inflammation does it necessarily cause thosetypes of symptoms all the time. In
fact, the symptoms can be subtle, there can be no symptoms, or
(09:46):
there can be brain symptoms, therecan be a weakened immune symptoms. I've
read connections between the gut and theliver. I wrote an article about gut
and bone health recently, So Ithink that's critical in establishing the fact that
this gut inflammation is very far reachingand it doesn't necessarily mean you've got gas.
(10:07):
Right, That's right. You've broughtup some good points there. We've
got there got brain axis, andthey've got lung axis, and got liver
and the gut kidney access. Thesemetabolites from the gastro intestino truck are communicating
with all areas of our body.Okay, perfect. So from a practical
standpoint, I want to talk abouta healthy microbiome diet. I mean,
(10:31):
you mentioned dietary fibers and polyphenols.You know what gives color to our fruits
and vegetables. But what does ahealthy microbiome diet look like from a practical
standpoint. Sure, well, thecompounds that your bacteria require, these dietary
fibers and polyphenols. The best sourcesof them are plant based food, specifically
(10:54):
vegetables and fruits, and some herbsand spices in some whole grains. But
the best sources are your fruits andvegetables. But one thing I really want
to emphasize when they're talking about dietand feeding your gut microbiome diversity. Diversity
diversity. All ecosystems are stronger andmore resilient when they have a higher level
(11:18):
of diversity, whether it's the Amazonrainforest or the coral reefs in the ocean
or your gut microbiome. And inthe gut microbiome, diversity means a wide
range of different types of bacteria.And the only way you can get this
wide range of different types of bacteriais by feeding a diverse range of dietary
fibers and polyphenols. So you cannotget a diverse microbiome by taking commercial probiotics.
(11:46):
And so that's why I emphasize howimportant diet is, and I like
to get people to understand the importanceof eating a little bit of as many
different types of fruits and vegetables everyday to get this diversity to promote a
diverse microbiome. And people can goonline on YouTube and look for my free
eight minute YouTube video. Just doa Google search for Ross Salad buzz be
(12:09):
u Zz and I've got an eightminute YouTube video that shows people how I
make my microbiome supporting salad. Andit's a great time saver as well as
having a wide range of vegetables init. I know, I love that.
I love the buzz. So evenif somebody can't do an exclusive plant
based diet so they're not going tobe vegan or vegetarian, what I hear
(12:31):
you saying, is that that hasto be emphasized, whereas meat and other
products needs to be de emphasized,and processed foods, certainly, especially ultra
processed foods, needs to be minimalin this plant based diet. I go
one step farther. I think processedfoods are one of the greatest sins on
(12:52):
the planet. I agree it's reallydetrimental because that lacking the fiber that feeds
your microbiome. But you've brought upa good point. I'm not suggesting that
everybody be a vegetarian, but theyshould put a great deal of focus on
plant based foods. But healthy proteinsand healthy fats are also very critical for
(13:13):
a healthy individual, and so wedon't want to eliminate those things. But
a majority of the diet should behealthy organically range and a diverse range of
plant based foods. Okay, perfect. So in addition to diet, what
else can we do to have ahealthy microbiome? Because what you're telling us
is that a healthy gut means we'regoing to have a healthy brain, healthy
(13:37):
immunity, healthy everything. So thisis critical. So what else can we
do? Well, there's a lotof other things that can influence the gut
microbiome. We know about antibiotics andhow harmful they are, and also sleep
deprivation and excess alcohol intake and badfats. There's a wide rain environmental toxins
(13:58):
are you know, big topic.So there's a lot of things that can
upset the gun microbiome. But themain thing to really focus on is consuming
a diverse range a plant based foodso you can feed your microbiome and a
diverse range of bacteria create a diverserange of these post biotic metabolites. Because
(14:20):
the post biodic metabolites have a widerange of different types of functions. Some
of them are anti inflammatory, someof them are called antimicrobial peptides. They
suppress or kill pathogens. Many ofthem adjust the acid base level in the
gastro intestinal track, and that's reallya critical factor because a healthy microbiome has
(14:41):
just a slightly acidic acid base level, and many of the post biotic metabolites
are slightly acidic. There's short chainfatty acids and fulvoc acids, and organic
acids and nucleic acids and amino acids. All these weakly acidic post biotic metabolites
help maintain the for slightly acidic pHin the gastro intestinal tract. That promotes
(15:05):
the growth and proliferation of your goodbacteria, and it suppresses the growth of
pathogens. So let's spend some timeon probiotics and prebiotics. I've been reading
a lot about prebiotics. I've cometo believe that the food that the probiotics
eat is probably more critical than theprobotics themselves. So take us through your
(15:28):
opinion on prebiotics, probiotics and howthat relates to the post biotic metabolites that
are so critical. Sure, well, in simple terms, probiotics are the
friendly or beneficial bacteria. Prebiotics arethe foods that they require, and many
of these prebiotics occur in foods.But now we have companies that are actually
(15:52):
taking prebiotics and putting into their probioticformulation. And that's not necessarily bad,
but it's missing the point of diversity. Putting one or two types of probiotics
into a probiotic formulation is not accomplishingdiversity. And that's the same argument I
have against these high dose probiotics thatpeople are producing and buying. Americans oftentimes
(16:18):
think more is better, so there'smine's got thirty billions, mine's got one
hundred billion, mine's got two hundredbillion. Those high potency commercial probiotics are
actually working against balance and diversity.And sometimes these high dose probiotics can actually
cause your immune system to mount analarm reaction. It's not necessarily that it's
(16:40):
bad bacteria, but it's way toomuch of bad bacteria, so it's throwing
things out of balance and alarming theimmune system. So high dose probiotics are
really not the way to go.And in fact, a very esteemed medical
doctor and microbiology researcher, doctor EmernMayer, has made a comment in his
(17:00):
latest book, The Gut Immune Connection. He says, taking the popular and
highly advertised shortcut, popping a dailysupplement pill containing billions of colony forming units,
will not do the job. Sothis is just my opinion one of
the most esteemed microbiologists and gastroinrologists inthe world, doctor Emmon Mayer, is
(17:22):
making this statement. Yeah, andI would agree, And I follow this
topic in the scientific literature pretty closely. And I also have seen a shift
in multi strain probiotics. It seemslike we now know that and this speaks
to the diversity issue that you bringup and you emphasize so much. So
what's your view on multiple strains.Well, certainly multiple strain probiotics would probably
(17:48):
be better than single strains. Butthe thing I like to get people to
realize is that most commercial probiotics arenot going to be effective because the level
of acidity in the stomach is aboutten thousand times stronger acid than the acid
level in the small intestine. Theacidity in your stomach is the frontline of
(18:08):
your immune system, the designed tokill things that get into your system,
and so most of the probiotic bacteriaare going to be killed before they can
ever get through the stomach and intothe small intestine. So and if people
are taking enter coated commercial probiotics,then they probably can get through the gastric
(18:30):
acidity and get into the small intestine. But when they reach the colon,
most people are not consuming a diverseplant based diet, so they're not feeding
those bacteria. Well, those bacteriaaren't going to find the foods they need
when they arrive in the colon,So commercial probiotics are not giving people the
benefit they think they are. Thebetter thing to do is supply directly post
(18:52):
biotic metabolites, and Doctor hers Probioticsis we've talked about previously on our show.
Here, Doctor Here's Probiotics is thenumber one product in the world to
directly deliver post biotic metabolites. Amulti year fermentation process in the production of
Doctor Oher's probiotics results in over fivehundred of these post biotic metabolites in every
(19:17):
single dose. I know and youI've made you know very clear that I've
been taking that probiotic for a lotof years. And one of the things
that I was drawn to when Ivery first learned about it is that the
probiotics are fermented, as you mentioned, for three years, which I think
is brilliant, But it's they're fermentedwith foods, aren't they like, yeah,
(19:42):
mushrooms, So that isn't that theway to go because those actual foods
are with the probiotics and make thoseprobiotic bacteria stronger and stronger and stronger.
You're right. That is the foundationof Doctor Here's production system for making Doctor
Here's probiotics. They start out withtwelve strains of starter bacteria and they add
(20:07):
dozens of different types of Japanese fruitsand vegetables and mushrooms and seaweeds that are
all healthily grown, and then thebacteria are allowed to digest and ferment the
foods in these fermentation vets for threeyears. And if you stop to think
about it, food in the humandigestive track spends an average of about thirty
(20:27):
six hours before it's eliminated, goinganywhere from twenty four to seventy two hours
going through the digestive track. Sobacteria in the human colon has about an
average of thirty six hours to fermentthe food and produce post biotic metabolites.
And doctor ohre is three year fermentationprocess. The bacteria have twenty six two
(20:48):
hundred and eighty hours to break downall those food stuffs and create the post
biotic metabolites. And I like toemphasize that over ninety nine point nine percent
of the bacteria in the human gastrointestinalsystem reside in the colon, which is
an anaerobic environment where the fermentation takesplace. And doctor Hero's fermentation process is
(21:12):
an external system that mimics the naturalprocesses that go on in the fermentation in
the colon in the human digestive tract. Yeah, that's what I think is
so cool because those foods are prebiotics. I wanted to I want to spend
a little bit more time on prebioticsbecause, as I mentioned, I'm just
reading so much about prebiotics and theimportance of prebiotics. So the prebiotics are
(21:38):
these dietary fibers and polyphenales that arein the foods. Those are actually prebiotics.
Correct, that's correct. The prebioticsare the food for your probiotic bacteria,
and the best sources of them arevegetables and fruits. Right. So
I read a study the other dayand I think I sent this to you,
which I found this kind of fascinating. The research was they put people
(22:03):
on a high prebiotic diet, sothey had a lot of these prebiotics in
the diet, and they found thatit changed the gut microbiome, which actually
was linked to appetite control in thebrain, and they lost weight, not
because they were eating a lot offiber, but because the prebiotics changed this
(22:26):
ecosystem that you mentioned in the beginningof the show, which then caused them
not to crave these high processed,crappy foods and they ate healthier foods.
They craved the healthier foods and theylost weight. Now, come on,
Ross, that's pretty fascinating, don'tyou know? It is fascinating. And
that is the gut brain axis andthe gut brain communication in live real time.
(22:53):
These materials, they post biotic metabolitescommunicate with your brain through the circulatory
system and through the vagus nerve.And so your gut is communicating with your
brain and it does have an influenceon your mood and your food choices and
your energy. That's a wide rangeof things that we're starting to learn about
(23:15):
how the gut influences the brain andnow overall well being. I know,
I mean the research on mood,Like you just mentioned cognition, Like somebody
who's having fuzzy thinking. You know, that's kind of a random, vague
symptom, but you probably would havethat person look at the health of their
gut microbiome. You got, absolutelyit would. And one thing I'd like
(23:36):
to share with our listeners is thatI'm proposing a new condition. I'm proposing
dys biosis is affecting many more peoplethan we really realize. I think there's
a condition of low clinical dys biosiswhere people have low levels of dys biosis,
(24:00):
so there's no symptoms, but they'restill having significant chronic inflammation as a
result of that dys biosis. Andthere's a study that was published that was
phenomenal. It's called the double blind, placebo controlled crossover trial where everybody at
one time in Part A or PartB was injected with low dose polysaccharides,
(24:22):
and the dose was so low thatnobody had any observable or noticeable symptoms.
But when they examined the blood workwhen people got the low dose lifel polysaccharides,
there was a twenty five fold increasein tumin crosis factor of alpha,
a one hundredfold increase in interluken six. These are highly inflammatory markers in the
body people having significant inflammation even thoughthere's no symptoms. So it just emphasized
(24:48):
how important it is for people toeat a plant based diet with a diverse
range of these plant based foods toget the dietary fibers and polyphenols so that
they can create and maintain a healthymicrobiome. And the fastest way to induce
changes and get improvement in the gutmicrobiome is to take doctor here's probiotics and
(25:10):
get these five hundred post biotic metabolitesin every single dose. Yeah, and
that probiotic is in terrat coded,correct, I say that I'm sorry one
more time, Uh the doctor,Here's probiotic is in tarot coded. And
that's it's not specifically in tarot coded, but it's especially patent design capsule that
(25:30):
stays hard in the high level ofa city in stomach and then it dissolves
in the lower city in the gasto intestino track in the small intestine,
so it releases all the contents onceit arrives in the small intestine. It's
not classically an enterot coded tablet Okay. It is a patented special design that
(25:52):
delivers the contents to the small intestine. You got it. And I like
the fact that it doesn't have tobe refrigerated because I travel quite out of
it. And it's really really convenienttoo. Okay. So I want to
talk a little bit more about lifestyle, anything more about probiotics probiotics before I
move on from that. Well,yes, there's some studies that show that
(26:15):
your bacteria enjoy or like exercise.People that exercise regularly have a more diverse
and a healthier microbiome. Say,that's another lifestyle factor that really ties directly
into microbiome health and overall health.What about stress and stress management? Does
that impact our gut microbiome? Yes, that's a big one. Now there's
(26:38):
some recent studies that show that stresscauses the brain to send signals to the
gut that release licopolysaccharide. So that'sthe new understanding of how stress can really
impact aging through the gut. Andpeople say, you know, I feel
(26:59):
like my gut is tighten knots whenthey're under stress, And well, they
really are tight and knots. They'recreating damage to the gi track and releasing
licopolysaccharides into the system through this stressresponse from the brain to the gut.
And so that's now a more wellunderstood linked to health problems, the stress
(27:22):
gut communication. Okay, so beforeI let you go, if you had
to pick one stress management technique totell a patient, what would that one
be. Oh, that's a goodone, hard question. There's a lot
of information on meditation, so Iwould say that's a good thing for people
to do. Exercising regularly is reallygood. I mean, I think strenuous
(27:48):
exercise is one of the best stressreduction in terms of emotional and psychological stress,
but I think that it probably dependson the individual. Yeah, very
very much. So, well,this has been very helpful. I want
to remind our listeners that you canfind more information about Ross his books and
his work at his website naturalpharmacist dotnet. And Ross, you've also written
(28:15):
a booklet that you're giving away topeople free, and that's at Naturalpharmacist dot
net. Backsplash, Oh, Heirabook and that's o h h I r
A b oh okay correct? Yes, I actually say forward slash, so
it's Natural Pharmace. Oh, yes, forward slash. Oh here a book,
(28:37):
Yes, forward slash. The bookthat is doctor Heros Probiotics and post
Biotic Metabolize, and it really teachespeople about these post biotic metabolites and why
they're so critically important to their health. Perfect. Well, this has been
great, Ross, thanks again forthis great conversation. Well, thanks,
Carolyn, I really appreciate the chanceto talk with you and share all this
information. Great. Well, thatwraps up up this episode of five to
(29:00):
Thrive Live. Once again, I'dlike to thank our sponsors n f H,
the Professional Supplement Line Bridging the gapbetween nutraceuticals and evidence based medicine.
Immused post biotic to give your immunesystem that extra boost, prognizance, citicoline
to help enhance memory, focus andattention, and of course doctor oher is
award winning shelf stable probiotic. Mayyou experience joy, laughter and love.
(29:23):
It's time to thrive. Everyone havea good name. The
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:45):
Carolyn Gazella and I co host theshow with my good friend, doctor lesh
Olschuler. Okay, I'm gonna admitsomething. I am obsessed with the gut
microbiome. It seems like every monthI'm reading a new research study about the
wonerful impact that gut microbiome has onhealth. And that's our topic today.
But first I'd like to thank oursponsors, beginning with NFH, an innovative
(01:10):
dietary supplement manufacturer that uses an evidencebased approach to creating dietary supplements for integrative
healthcare professionals. If you want highquality dietary supplements, ask your integrative practitioner
about NFH products. You can alsofind more information at NFH dot ca.
Emmuse is a unique, patented postbiotic that gives your immune system a key
(01:30):
advantage. Immuse is an ingredient inmany immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for
Ammuse on the label or go toImmusehealth dot com for more information. Also
cognizance citicoli, which is nature's answerto keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing
and all cylinders. If you're lookingfor a way to enhance your brain function
(01:51):
including memory, focus and attention,look for cognizant on the label or go
to cognizm dot com for more information. And dot du oheres probi It's a
best selling probiotic for more than thirtyyears. It contains twelve probiotic strains that
are shelf stable, so no refrigerationis required. Because of a unique three
year fermentation process, It's a veryeffective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira
(02:14):
probiotics dot com. So with MeToday is one of my regular guests who
happens to be an expert on thegut microbiome. Ross Pelton is also known
as the Natural Pharmacist. Not onlyis he a registered pharmacist and clinical nutrition
expert, he is the author ofmany popular books. Ross Welcome back to
the show. Hi, Carolyn.It's always a pleasure to be on your
(02:36):
show. With you and I too, am obsessed by the gut microbiome.
I know we share that, weshare that passion. So let's start out
very broad because some of our listenersmay not know what the gut microbiome is.
So tell us about what the gutmicrobiome is. Well, sure,
Carolyn, the gut microbiome is anecosystem in the gastro testinal track. And
(03:01):
everybody knows that. Most people knowabout the good bacteria, the probiotics,
but that's not the whole story.The whole ecosystem is the bacteria and the
foods that we ingest that feed thebacteria, and the whole lining of the
gastrointestinal track that has to be ingood shape. So that's the whole ecosystem,
(03:21):
the lining, the bacteria, andthe foods that we feed the bacteria.
And then the next step in thisprocess is the compounds that the bacteria
create if they are fed correctly.And I regularly tell people, if you
don't feed your probiotic bacteria, well, they will not thrive and survive.
(03:42):
That's really critical. And I thinkwe're finding out ross that the scientific literature
is bearing that out, that it'snot just about probiotics. It's about the
food that we feed those probiotics andthe good bacteria. And as always with
you, Ross, I like tobegin with talk about research, and I
want to start discussing a paper yourecently published titled the Microbiome Theory of Aging.
(04:05):
Really great paper, by the way, give us a few of the
key takeaways from that paper, sure, Carolyn, I'm happy to, and
in the show notes we can posta link to that so everybody can get
in a copy of this paper.But one of the things I highlight in
this paper I wrote is that fora long time, people have intuitively known
(04:27):
that probiotic bacteria provide health benefits,but nobody really understood the mechanism of action.
So that's what I'm trying to elucidatein my paper. And turns out
that the job of your probiotic bacteriais to break down compounds in the food
that we supply them and create secondarycompounds that we call post biotic metabolites.
(04:50):
So what we're learning is that it'sthese post biotic metabolites that are master health
regulating compounds, not just for thegas intestinal tract, but they get absorbed
systemically and influence every single organ systemin your body, especially your brain and
your immune system. So it's notspecifically just the probiotic bacteria, but at
(05:13):
the compounds that bacteria create, thesepost biotic metabolites that really regulate your health.
But a really disturbing fact, Carolyn, is that I have multiple studies
that say that from ninety to ninetyfive percent of American children and adults are
not consuming adequate amounts of the typesof foods that feed their probiotic bacteria.
(05:36):
And the two basic food groups forprobiotic bacteria are dietary fibers and compounds called
polyphenols. And for people that aren'tfamiliar with polyphenols, there are a lot
of the compounds that are responsible forthe color and fruits and vegetables, and
there's over eighty thousand of them,excuse me, eight thousand of them that
(05:57):
have been structurally identified. But thesepolyphenols and also dietary fibers, we do
not digest them well. Polyphenols aremammoth large molecules and many of them go
straight through the digestive fact unchanged,and we do not contain the enzymes that
enable us to digest dietary fibers fromplant based foods and so those dietary fibers
(06:21):
also go all the way through yourdigestive tract. But when these polyphenols and
dietary fibers reach your colon, they'rethe food for your probiotic bacteria, and
the probiotic bacteria break them down intosmall, smaller compounds, these post biotic
metabolites that have a wide range ofdifferent types of biological activities. So this
(06:43):
is a critical part of our health. Yeah, you mentioned so many good
things. First of all, thefact that the gut health influences all these
other organ systems, in particular brainand immune, and we've been reading about
the gut immune gut brain connection,and I want to talk about diet in
more detail. But what happens whenthe microbiome is not healthy, Well,
(07:09):
that's the real crux of the microbiometheory of aging, educating people about what
happens when they don't maintain an optimalpopulation of good bacteria in their digestive tract.
When you get out of balance withyour bacteria, if you have too
many bad bacteria not enough good bacteria, that creates a condition that we call
(07:30):
dysbiosis. And when this bacterial imbalanceoccurs, common symptoms are gas and bloating,
inflammation and pain, often diarrhea,sometimes constipation. So those are the
symptoms that are associated with this bacterialimbalance that we call dysbiosis. But the
(07:53):
gut inflammation that is caused by thisimbalance in the bacteria, when you get
too many of the bad bacteria,they cause inflammation in the gastonetestinal track and
that results in a breakdown of thetight junctions that hold the cells that line
the gastrointestinal track tight together. Thatallows compounds to leak from your gastonetestinal track
(08:16):
into your systemic circulation. And someof these compounds, especially ones called lipopolysaccharider
LPs, they are highly inflammatory andthey're associated with conditions of neurological conditions like
Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease and cardiovasculardiseases, and so the whole range of
(08:39):
common diseases are associated with chronic inflammation. And there's one study I like to
quote in some of my presentations thatwas published in twenty twenty one. The
title of it is Modern World Influenceson the Microbiome and their Consequences for Immune
mediated Disease, And one of theconclusion the authors made in this study,
(09:01):
they say, it is now clearthat the depletion of microbial metabolites beneficial to
host health is associated with a rapidrise in non communicable chronic diseases. So
here's a study in the Journal ofImmunology that's telling us that it's the lack
or the depletion of these post bioticmetabolites it's really associated with a lot of
(09:24):
our chronic diseases. Yeah, andyou brought up a really critical point because
I think when people hear gut theythink about gut symptoms, you know,
oh, gas floating and whatnot.But what you're telling us is that this
gut inflammation does it necessarily cause thosetypes of symptoms all the time. In
fact, the symptoms can be subtle, there can be no symptoms, or
(09:46):
there can be brain symptoms, therecan be a weakened immune symptoms. I've
read connections between the gut and theliver. I wrote an article about gut
and bone health recently, So Ithink that's critical in establishing the fact that
this gut inflammation is very far reachingand it doesn't necessarily mean you've got gas.
(10:07):
Right, That's right. You've broughtup some good points there. We've
got there got brain axis, andthey've got lung axis, and got liver
and the gut kidney access. Thesemetabolites from the gastro intestino truck are communicating
with all areas of our body.Okay, perfect. So from a practical
standpoint, I want to talk abouta healthy microbiome diet. I mean,
(10:31):
you mentioned dietary fibers and polyphenols.You know what gives color to our fruits
and vegetables. But what does ahealthy microbiome diet look like from a practical
standpoint. Sure, well, thecompounds that your bacteria require, these dietary
fibers and polyphenols. The best sourcesof them are plant based food, specifically
(10:54):
vegetables and fruits, and some herbsand spices in some whole grains. But
the best sources are your fruits andvegetables. But one thing I really want
to emphasize when they're talking about dietand feeding your gut microbiome diversity. Diversity
diversity. All ecosystems are stronger andmore resilient when they have a higher level
(11:18):
of diversity, whether it's the Amazonrainforest or the coral reefs in the ocean
or your gut microbiome. And inthe gut microbiome, diversity means a wide
range of different types of bacteria.And the only way you can get this
wide range of different types of bacteriais by feeding a diverse range of dietary
fibers and polyphenols. So you cannotget a diverse microbiome by taking commercial probiotics.
(11:46):
And so that's why I emphasize howimportant diet is, and I like
to get people to understand the importanceof eating a little bit of as many
different types of fruits and vegetables everyday to get this diversity to promote a
diverse microbiome. And people can goonline on YouTube and look for my free
eight minute YouTube video. Just doa Google search for Ross Salad buzz be
(12:09):
u Zz and I've got an eightminute YouTube video that shows people how I
make my microbiome supporting salad. Andit's a great time saver as well as
having a wide range of vegetables init. I know, I love that.
I love the buzz. So evenif somebody can't do an exclusive plant
based diet so they're not going tobe vegan or vegetarian, what I hear
(12:31):
you saying, is that that hasto be emphasized, whereas meat and other
products needs to be de emphasized,and processed foods, certainly, especially ultra
processed foods, needs to be minimalin this plant based diet. I go
one step farther. I think processedfoods are one of the greatest sins on
(12:52):
the planet. I agree it's reallydetrimental because that lacking the fiber that feeds
your microbiome. But you've brought upa good point. I'm not suggesting that
everybody be a vegetarian, but theyshould put a great deal of focus on
plant based foods. But healthy proteinsand healthy fats are also very critical for
(13:13):
a healthy individual, and so wedon't want to eliminate those things. But
a majority of the diet should behealthy organically range and a diverse range of
plant based foods. Okay, perfect. So in addition to diet, what
else can we do to have ahealthy microbiome? Because what you're telling us
is that a healthy gut means we'regoing to have a healthy brain, healthy
(13:37):
immunity, healthy everything. So thisis critical. So what else can we
do? Well, there's a lotof other things that can influence the gut
microbiome. We know about antibiotics andhow harmful they are, and also sleep
deprivation and excess alcohol intake and badfats. There's a wide rain environmental toxins
(13:58):
are you know, big topic.So there's a lot of things that can
upset the gun microbiome. But themain thing to really focus on is consuming
a diverse range a plant based foodso you can feed your microbiome and a
diverse range of bacteria create a diverserange of these post biotic metabolites. Because
(14:20):
the post biodic metabolites have a widerange of different types of functions. Some
of them are anti inflammatory, someof them are called antimicrobial peptides. They
suppress or kill pathogens. Many ofthem adjust the acid base level in the
gastro intestinal track, and that's reallya critical factor because a healthy microbiome has
(14:41):
just a slightly acidic acid base level, and many of the post biotic metabolites
are slightly acidic. There's short chainfatty acids and fulvoc acids, and organic
acids and nucleic acids and amino acids. All these weakly acidic post biotic metabolites
help maintain the for slightly acidic pHin the gastro intestinal tract. That promotes
(15:05):
the growth and proliferation of your goodbacteria, and it suppresses the growth of
pathogens. So let's spend some timeon probiotics and prebiotics. I've been reading
a lot about prebiotics. I've cometo believe that the food that the probiotics
eat is probably more critical than theprobotics themselves. So take us through your
(15:28):
opinion on prebiotics, probiotics and howthat relates to the post biotic metabolites that
are so critical. Sure, well, in simple terms, probiotics are the
friendly or beneficial bacteria. Prebiotics arethe foods that they require, and many
of these prebiotics occur in foods.But now we have companies that are actually
(15:52):
taking prebiotics and putting into their probioticformulation. And that's not necessarily bad,
but it's missing the point of diversity. Putting one or two types of probiotics
into a probiotic formulation is not accomplishingdiversity. And that's the same argument I
have against these high dose probiotics thatpeople are producing and buying. Americans oftentimes
(16:18):
think more is better, so there'smine's got thirty billions, mine's got one
hundred billion, mine's got two hundredbillion. Those high potency commercial probiotics are
actually working against balance and diversity.And sometimes these high dose probiotics can actually
cause your immune system to mount analarm reaction. It's not necessarily that it's
(16:40):
bad bacteria, but it's way toomuch of bad bacteria, so it's throwing
things out of balance and alarming theimmune system. So high dose probiotics are
really not the way to go.And in fact, a very esteemed medical
doctor and microbiology researcher, doctor EmernMayer, has made a comment in his
(17:00):
latest book, The Gut Immune Connection. He says, taking the popular and
highly advertised shortcut, popping a dailysupplement pill containing billions of colony forming units,
will not do the job. Sothis is just my opinion one of
the most esteemed microbiologists and gastroinrologists inthe world, doctor Emmon Mayer, is
(17:22):
making this statement. Yeah, andI would agree, And I follow this
topic in the scientific literature pretty closely. And I also have seen a shift
in multi strain probiotics. It seemslike we now know that and this speaks
to the diversity issue that you bringup and you emphasize so much. So
what's your view on multiple strains.Well, certainly multiple strain probiotics would probably
(17:48):
be better than single strains. Butthe thing I like to get people to
realize is that most commercial probiotics arenot going to be effective because the level
of acidity in the stomach is aboutten thousand times stronger acid than the acid
level in the small intestine. Theacidity in your stomach is the frontline of
(18:08):
your immune system, the designed tokill things that get into your system,
and so most of the probiotic bacteriaare going to be killed before they can
ever get through the stomach and intothe small intestine. So and if people
are taking enter coated commercial probiotics,then they probably can get through the gastric
(18:30):
acidity and get into the small intestine. But when they reach the colon,
most people are not consuming a diverseplant based diet, so they're not feeding
those bacteria. Well, those bacteriaaren't going to find the foods they need
when they arrive in the colon,So commercial probiotics are not giving people the
benefit they think they are. Thebetter thing to do is supply directly post
(18:52):
biotic metabolites, and Doctor hers Probioticsis we've talked about previously on our show.
Here, Doctor Here's Probiotics is thenumber one product in the world to
directly deliver post biotic metabolites. Amulti year fermentation process in the production of
Doctor Oher's probiotics results in over fivehundred of these post biotic metabolites in every
(19:17):
single dose. I know and youI've made you know very clear that I've
been taking that probiotic for a lotof years. And one of the things
that I was drawn to when Ivery first learned about it is that the
probiotics are fermented, as you mentioned, for three years, which I think
is brilliant, But it's they're fermentedwith foods, aren't they like, yeah,
(19:42):
mushrooms, So that isn't that theway to go because those actual foods
are with the probiotics and make thoseprobiotic bacteria stronger and stronger and stronger.
You're right. That is the foundationof Doctor Here's production system for making Doctor
Here's probiotics. They start out withtwelve strains of starter bacteria and they add
(20:07):
dozens of different types of Japanese fruitsand vegetables and mushrooms and seaweeds that are
all healthily grown, and then thebacteria are allowed to digest and ferment the
foods in these fermentation vets for threeyears. And if you stop to think
about it, food in the humandigestive track spends an average of about thirty
(20:27):
six hours before it's eliminated, goinganywhere from twenty four to seventy two hours
going through the digestive track. Sobacteria in the human colon has about an
average of thirty six hours to fermentthe food and produce post biotic metabolites.
And doctor ohre is three year fermentationprocess. The bacteria have twenty six two
(20:48):
hundred and eighty hours to break downall those food stuffs and create the post
biotic metabolites. And I like toemphasize that over ninety nine point nine percent
of the bacteria in the human gastrointestinalsystem reside in the colon, which is
an anaerobic environment where the fermentation takesplace. And doctor Hero's fermentation process is
(21:12):
an external system that mimics the naturalprocesses that go on in the fermentation in
the colon in the human digestive tract. Yeah, that's what I think is
so cool because those foods are prebiotics. I wanted to I want to spend
a little bit more time on prebioticsbecause, as I mentioned, I'm just
reading so much about prebiotics and theimportance of prebiotics. So the prebiotics are
(21:38):
these dietary fibers and polyphenales that arein the foods. Those are actually prebiotics.
Correct, that's correct. The prebioticsare the food for your probiotic bacteria,
and the best sources of them arevegetables and fruits. Right. So
I read a study the other dayand I think I sent this to you,
which I found this kind of fascinating. The research was they put people
(22:03):
on a high prebiotic diet, sothey had a lot of these prebiotics in
the diet, and they found thatit changed the gut microbiome, which actually
was linked to appetite control in thebrain, and they lost weight, not
because they were eating a lot offiber, but because the prebiotics changed this
(22:26):
ecosystem that you mentioned in the beginningof the show, which then caused them
not to crave these high processed,crappy foods and they ate healthier foods.
They craved the healthier foods and theylost weight. Now, come on,
Ross, that's pretty fascinating, don'tyou know? It is fascinating. And
that is the gut brain axis andthe gut brain communication in live real time.
(22:53):
These materials, they post biotic metabolitescommunicate with your brain through the circulatory
system and through the vagus nerve.And so your gut is communicating with your
brain and it does have an influenceon your mood and your food choices and
your energy. That's a wide rangeof things that we're starting to learn about
(23:15):
how the gut influences the brain andnow overall well being. I know,
I mean the research on mood,Like you just mentioned cognition, Like somebody
who's having fuzzy thinking. You know, that's kind of a random, vague
symptom, but you probably would havethat person look at the health of their
gut microbiome. You got, absolutelyit would. And one thing I'd like
(23:36):
to share with our listeners is thatI'm proposing a new condition. I'm proposing
dys biosis is affecting many more peoplethan we really realize. I think there's
a condition of low clinical dys biosiswhere people have low levels of dys biosis,
(24:00):
so there's no symptoms, but they'restill having significant chronic inflammation as a
result of that dys biosis. Andthere's a study that was published that was
phenomenal. It's called the double blind, placebo controlled crossover trial where everybody at
one time in Part A or PartB was injected with low dose polysaccharides,
(24:22):
and the dose was so low thatnobody had any observable or noticeable symptoms.
But when they examined the blood workwhen people got the low dose lifel polysaccharides,
there was a twenty five fold increasein tumin crosis factor of alpha,
a one hundredfold increase in interluken six. These are highly inflammatory markers in the
body people having significant inflammation even thoughthere's no symptoms. So it just emphasized
(24:48):
how important it is for people toeat a plant based diet with a diverse
range of these plant based foods toget the dietary fibers and polyphenols so that
they can create and maintain a healthymicrobiome. And the fastest way to induce
changes and get improvement in the gutmicrobiome is to take doctor here's probiotics and
(25:10):
get these five hundred post biotic metabolitesin every single dose. Yeah, and
that probiotic is in terrat coded,correct, I say that I'm sorry one
more time, Uh the doctor,Here's probiotic is in tarot coded. And
that's it's not specifically in tarot coded, but it's especially patent design capsule that
(25:30):
stays hard in the high level ofa city in stomach and then it dissolves
in the lower city in the gasto intestino track in the small intestine,
so it releases all the contents onceit arrives in the small intestine. It's
not classically an enterot coded tablet Okay. It is a patented special design that
(25:52):
delivers the contents to the small intestine. You got it. And I like
the fact that it doesn't have tobe refrigerated because I travel quite out of
it. And it's really really convenienttoo. Okay. So I want to
talk a little bit more about lifestyle, anything more about probiotics probiotics before I
move on from that. Well,yes, there's some studies that show that
(26:15):
your bacteria enjoy or like exercise.People that exercise regularly have a more diverse
and a healthier microbiome. Say,that's another lifestyle factor that really ties directly
into microbiome health and overall health.What about stress and stress management? Does
that impact our gut microbiome? Yes, that's a big one. Now there's
(26:38):
some recent studies that show that stresscauses the brain to send signals to the
gut that release licopolysaccharide. So that'sthe new understanding of how stress can really
impact aging through the gut. Andpeople say, you know, I feel
(26:59):
like my gut is tighten knots whenthey're under stress, And well, they
really are tight and knots. They'recreating damage to the gi track and releasing
licopolysaccharides into the system through this stressresponse from the brain to the gut.
And so that's now a more wellunderstood linked to health problems, the stress
(27:22):
gut communication. Okay, so beforeI let you go, if you had
to pick one stress management technique totell a patient, what would that one
be. Oh, that's a goodone, hard question. There's a lot
of information on meditation, so Iwould say that's a good thing for people
to do. Exercising regularly is reallygood. I mean, I think strenuous
(27:48):
exercise is one of the best stressreduction in terms of emotional and psychological stress,
but I think that it probably dependson the individual. Yeah, very
very much. So, well,this has been very helpful. I want
to remind our listeners that you canfind more information about Ross his books and
his work at his website naturalpharmacist dotnet. And Ross, you've also written
(28:15):
a booklet that you're giving away topeople free, and that's at Naturalpharmacist dot
net. Backsplash, Oh, Heirabook and that's o h h I r
A b oh okay correct? Yes, I actually say forward slash, so
it's Natural Pharmace. Oh, yes, forward slash. Oh here a book,
(28:37):
Yes, forward slash. The bookthat is doctor Heros Probiotics and post
Biotic Metabolize, and it really teachespeople about these post biotic metabolites and why
they're so critically important to their health. Perfect. Well, this has been
great, Ross, thanks again forthis great conversation. Well, thanks,
Carolyn, I really appreciate the chanceto talk with you and share all this
information. Great. Well, thatwraps up up this episode of five to
(29:00):
Thrive Live. Once again, I'dlike to thank our sponsors n f H,
the Professional Supplement Line Bridging the gapbetween nutraceuticals and evidence based medicine.
Immused post biotic to give your immunesystem that extra boost, prognizance, citicoline
to help enhance memory, focus andattention, and of course doctor oher is
award winning shelf stable probiotic. Mayyou experience joy, laughter and love.
(29:23):
It's time to thrive. Everyone havea good name. The
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