February 25, 2025 • 29 mins
Have you heard of the new book The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins? It's all the rage! It has quickly become one of the most popular self-help books of our generation. On this show, Lise and Karolyn discuss the book and share some additional thoughts on how to put these concepts into action. Whether you've read the book or not, you won't want to miss this show. You'll learn practical ways to build better boundaries, feel empowered, and enhance your relationships.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I'm here with my co host and
good friend, doctor Lise Olschuler. Hello, Lise, how are you?
I'm good?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm great. I'm a little tired. I'm a little tired
because of the new but I'm great.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I know. I can't believe you're raising a puppy. That
is not easy. No, it is not.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I have I've forgotten more than I remembered. So but
she's adorable. Oh good, yeah, good.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well. I just got back from a vacation in Spain.
I was on the Brava Coast, which is north a
little bit north of Barcelona, and that is truly a
beautiful part of the world. Was just amazingly gorgeous. Oh good.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'll have to put it on my bucket list for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
All right, Well, you know I'm excited about our show tonight.
We're going to be talking about a new and very
popular book by no Robbins called The Let Them Theory.
We both read it, Yes, we're excited to talk about it.
We found it very very thought provoking, I would say
(01:56):
even kind of life changing. But before we dig in,
one like to thank our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, I found it to be one of the
best self help books that I've read in a very,
very long time. So I'm excited to dig in too.
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(03:29):
doctor Ohira Probiotics dot com. Okay, Lise, let's dig into
the Let Them theory for listeners who have not heard
of the book or read the book yet, give us
your quick take on what the let Them theory is about.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Well, you know, at its core, it's really based on
a very simple idea that has been that mel Robbins
does not claim as her own, but really a theory
that she can across and then went on to do
a lot of additional research about and interviewed various people
around this concept, So the title really is a big
(04:12):
part of it. Let them So. The idea is essentially
this way of living life where you stop trying to
change what other people do, how they behave, stop trying
to rescue others from their own behaviors. You essentially let
(04:32):
people be who they are, and in exchange or along
with that, you let me so. It's let them let
me so. Then in response, you also are freed up
to then just do you and respond to their behavior,
not in a way that tries to change their behavior
or excuse their behavior or work around their behavior, but
(04:56):
really seeing their behavior as it is, letting yourself then Okay,
ask yourself, what am I going to do at this
point in time? And so with that very basic concept,
mel Robbins gives a lot of different scenarios in which
that theory can be very transformative, ranging from managing your
(05:17):
social interactions, managing work conflicts, managing relationship decisions. So she
really takes a lot of time and space in her
book to give her own personal life examples, examples from
her friends, and kind of takes the theory and crystallizes
(05:38):
it into these various applications, all the while staying true
to this concept of just let them and then let me.
How do I do?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You did great? And I'm going to add yeah, I
found the book to be I really enjoyed it. I
actually did the audiobook because I was doing a road Yeah. Yeah,
she's quite entertaining, a wonderful narrator. So I feel that
the book is all about awareness and empowerment, and it's
very practical in nature. So let Them is all about
(06:12):
the awareness part. But I feel like the true gold
within the theory is that let me part that you
talked about. I almost wish it was called the let
me theory because that's really the important part. I think
Mel does a great job explaining that a person's words
and actions are meant to be information that we then
(06:33):
take in. It's not meant to change those those actions,
or person or anything else. It's not meant to take
things personally. It's meant to act as information. That's the
awareness part. So then we take that information in and
then we use that information to make wise and healthy
choices for ourselves, and that's the empowering part. So at first,
(06:55):
when I got into the book, I was a little
skeptical because it's like, wait, a minute, I'm just supposed
to let them do whatever the heck they want, and
that's not really what it's about at all. You let
people be who they are and do what they're going
to do, but then you use that information to let
you make decisions, and it could be where you decide, oh,
(07:17):
you know what, that's not working for me, so I'm
going to go in a different direction. You don't take
it personally. You just use that to make different choices.
And that's where I feel like the book is very empowering,
and it's about choices, and it's about our choices, and
you know what else, it's about taking responsibility. So I
(07:38):
love the fact that she kind of puts it back
on us and helps us to be empowered. So what
how did I do.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
You be great? I do that they let me part? Is?
I think that's actually well, there's you know, it's funny
because I had two reactions listening to the book. I
listened to it as well. On the one hand, I thought, gosh,
this is such a simple concept. Let them just like,
let people be who they are and then just let
me be who I am. No big deal, easy peasy.
But on the other hand, of course, it's not easy,
(08:13):
and I found myself, especially in listening to her examples
and thinking of similar situations in my own life, I
found myself challenged. And so I think that, and she
makes the point several times that this is not easy.
I think you make the good point that, you know,
she talks a lot about awareness is the first step,
just being really aware of how people are acting on
(08:36):
their own accord and how we are responding to that.
I think the next part is the courage it takes
to then do the let me part, which you know
is not always easy, because in many of her examples
she talks about even with an awareness of somebody doing
something that let's say you find hurtful. Let's say somebody
(08:56):
a good friend of yours is ghosting you and they're
not respond into your text, they're not calling you, and
you feel let down by that, and in fact, you
feel like anxious, like what did I do wrong? How
come she's how come this person's not responding to her?
Or whatever the care might be. So you know, Mel
would say, yeah, you just have to just let them
not respond and not necessarily assign reason to it. But
(09:20):
then you can choose what you do with that Are
you going to wallow in it and feel bad about yourself?
Or are you going to get on the phone and
call them, or are you going just just maybe this
friendship has kind of lived its life and I can
pay attention to something else. But that step, I think
is actually much harder to do in real life than
(09:41):
it is, you know, when just reading about it. So
I found that kind of the challenging part consistently.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, I'm still finding that part challenging because I'm trying
to obviously put this into practice, and I have an
example for you, and I would like us to use
some practical examples if we can. So you know that
I have this this group of callgirls that I go
horseback riding with, and it seems like I'm oftentimes the
ring leader and I'm like, hey, who wants to ride? Well,
(10:08):
there were certain people in the group that would just
not respond. So I took this one person aside and
I said, Okay, here's the deal. If I take the
time to invite you to do something with me, my
expectation is that you will respond, And if you continue
(10:30):
not to respond, then maybe I won't want to invite you.
So I really hope that you respond and you respect
the fact that I'm inviting you to do something with me.
I want you to say yay or nay so we
can plan accordingly. I mean, obviously, when it comes to
horseback riding, we need to know how many riders, what
type of ride. I mean, it all comes together, and
(10:52):
we need that information. But I think that's the other
thing that I'm really focusing on, being transparent and clearly
communicating my expectations when it comes to the let me part.
So what stands out these as something that you've taken
from the book and put into practice in your life.
(11:12):
Is there anything?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Oh? Gosh, yeah, A ton yeah. And I think probably
one of the more challenging examples is I was talking
with somebody who I a great deal about, and this
person explained to me that they have been feeling a
lot of hurt about my inattention to them and had
(11:39):
some really good points about why they felt disregarded by me,
ignored by me, disrespected even my inattention, and yet within
that there was also a lot of their own story
around my behavior. And at first, when I was listening
to this, I started to kind of try to defend myself,
(11:59):
and then I remember the let them there, and I thought,
you know what, this is just their story, This is
their this is the way they're reconciling their hurt about
me not respond not reaching out in the way that
they wanted. So let them let them feel that, let
them have this reaction, and then let me do is
(12:22):
how I want to respond to that. So in that situation,
I basically said, you know, I really see that how
I've behaved has been hurtful to you. I see and
I hear how hurt you are. And I have my
own no sort of explanations for why some of this happened,
(12:42):
but I also can now see how my behavior affects you,
and I'm going to go back into my life and
think about if and how I can change to meet
your needs. I may or I may not be able to.
But it was like such, It was the least sort
of interactive with this person around that is almost felt
a little cold. I did it in a very loving way,
(13:04):
but it was just it was very much for me
about to let them let me very in action, and
not a way I would have necessarily handled that prior
to reading the book.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean, especially in that example, I think that
when difficult conversations come up and one person does get
a little defensive. It's so easy to match that defensiveness
with defensiveness, and then that becomes such an unhealthy cycle.
I think you're right. It does almost seem like I'm
(13:37):
being cold, or like I'm being too direct, or I
mean I had to draw. Another example for me is
I had to draw a boundary with a friend who's
just addicted to drama and it was just driving me crazy.
And I'm actually doing a Psychology Today article on addicted
to drama just because it's just so prevalent. And the
(13:58):
interesting thing these is when I drew that boundary and
I said, Okay, this is how, this is how I
would like our conversations to go, and this is what
I what I don't want to have happen because it
doesn't feel healthy for me. It doesn't feel good for me.
She stopped calling. Isn't that interesting? So I think being
(14:19):
aware that sometimes when we are transparent, we're clear about
our expectations, we communicate clearly with love and compassion, but
we're clear and we're direct. Sometimes some people just can't that,
They just can't handle that it and it can be
(14:40):
a struggle for them, and now you know what, I'm
letting her. I'm letting her go and we'll see what happens.
But I think that the thing that I am putting
into practice is just trying to be better at identifying
(15:01):
my feelings about conversations energy like reading the room when
I get into when I walk into a room, and
just like how am I feeling and how do my
interactions impact me my health, my mental, physical, spiritual health,
and take that information and then make choices based on
(15:24):
that information. I have a tendency lease to be very
black and white, and that can be challenging for the
let them let me theory because it can be very
easy to say, oh, yeah, well you're going to act
that way, well, then forget it. I don't want you
in my life, you know. And I mean, I'm not
(15:45):
that definitive, but I think that we have to have
cautioned and do this all with compassion. But I feel
like this book has helped me create better boundaries, and
I feel like my relationships are actually getting better because
of this book.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah. Well, and I think she makes the case like
her last chapter is about the real relationship is the
one we have with ourselves, and I think that's really
at the heart of all this, which is why I
think let me is a good idea. So but you know,
like another example I'll share just to kind of get
(16:25):
to the point I'm trying to make, is that there's
a conversation that I had with somebody and they referenced
a conversation that they had had with another friend of mine,
and I immediately felt left out. I have this thing
about fomo, like I always fear of missing out, Like
it's just the thing I have, right, So I was like, aw, well,
why didn't I get included in that? And how do
(16:47):
they not love me enough? Like were they talking about me?
Were they purposely like leaving like all these crazy, crazy thoughts,
Like I knew they were crazy thoughts as I was
having them. And yet that's what our brain does. It
just goes into this kind of panic mode. So I'm like, WHOA.
So I took a breath, and I think this is
(17:07):
part of this theory too, is being responsive instead of
being reactive. So I just took a breath and I said, Okay,
you know what, let them let them have their time together.
I can't change them. I can't change anything. About them.
If they want to change on their own time and
their own way, great, I can't do it. I can't
change them. So they will continue to do this or
(17:30):
they did this and that's their choice. That's great. Let them. Now,
how do I want to feel about this? Like? Am
I really hurt as a result of may any different?
Do I feel any different in this moment not being
part of that conversation? No? And who am I left
with me? So? What is it about me that I
can embrace and step forward? And kind of where's my
(17:51):
own resilience and where's my own sense of belonging? And
I think you know, tho's the that's the hard part again,
But I think that's the beauty of this theory, is
really just giving yourself a moment to sort of pull
back the power we just give to others and pull
it back into ourselves and take responsibility as you said
for that.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, that's such a good point because she does hit
home on this this idea that we have been giving
up our power to other people for a long time.
And it's interesting because I'm rereading Four Agreements by Don
Miguel Ruiz and he talks about how we have been
conditioned to be afraid of how people will treat us
(18:36):
and how they feel about us, and we need to
kind of create a new agreement, like, Okay, I don't
need to be afraid anymore that someone's not going to
like me, and I need to not take things personally,
and you know, so I feel like this is something
that let them. Theory does a really great job because,
(19:00):
like you said, she gives such great examples, and she
even talks about like if you have a friend who
is struggling with addiction, you know, and she talks about
making new friends at different times in our lives and
you know, like making an effort and having things not
be one sided or lopsided and standing up for yourself
(19:24):
and all of those things. And I think you're right
if we can go back to the core of why
we're acting that way, Like I've had similar situations as
you describe, where I've I've felt left out, and the
fear in that is like nobody's going to love me.
I'm going to be alone, you know, I'm I'm not
(19:45):
going to have any friends and blah blah blah blah blah.
You know where our mind goes. So I think that
when we can pause and say, Okay, Carolyn, that's a
fear based response, and you know, people love you, you
have a lot of love, you know what I mean,
and just kind of take a step back, take a pause,
and kind of reassure ourselves that's our responsibility. I think
(20:07):
that that is very helpful, and I think that mel
does a really great job of bringing that point home.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, you make a really good point there,
And you know, again, I think that it's the the ultimately,
the challenge is to love ourselves enough to let ourselves
to do the let me part, and to feel really
strong in that because she also brings a lot of
(20:34):
science in and she brings a lot of science into
like the stress response. Early in the book, she talks
about that and how we when we're in a stressed
feeling about something, our brain chemistry just doesn't work the
way it normally does. So the fear that you just
talked about kind of predominates, and she talks about, you know,
it's important to be aware of that, to take space
(20:55):
from it and yourself just sort of take some time
away from it. And in her chapter about relationships, she
talks about the you know the fact that our nervous
system literally wires itself around our relationship. So when there's
a change in the relationship, our nervous system just needs
times sometimes to kind of adjust and catch up to
(21:17):
the difference. And so I think there's like correct, there's
really this very sweet element of gives up a break
and you know you're not going to get it right
undred percent, but just try and recognize that you're doing
your best and keep on prioritizing yourself to do your best.
Like that. That came through in a lot of different ways,
(21:38):
which I appreciated in the book too.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and I love the science. And actually there were
a lot of concepts that Mel talks about in her
podcast and in the book that are similar to what
we've been talking about for years with five to Thrive.
You know, she talks about small steps, don't beat yourself up,
you know, small steps in that up. And she's also
talked a lot about self respect, respecting yourself and not
(22:05):
allowing others to, you know, take advantage of you, and
and not not flipping into that victim mode because you know,
at the end of the day, it's our responsibility, it's
not that it's not that other person. And I love
that part. So it's not the other person, it's our responsibility.
We get to choose what we will tolerate and what
(22:28):
we won't, and tolerates kind of a strong word, but
we get to choose, and we also get to choose
when we want to talk to that person and how
we want to talk to that person, and what we
want to do. And so I felt that that whole part,
the the awareness and the empowerment of it. But it
does take practice, and it takes a reminder. I have
(22:49):
a group of women here who are have either read
it or are reading it, so we're doing like a
little book cluby kind of thing and ye just to
remind us. So it's kind of cool when you have
your friends read it because then then you, you know,
you kind of put it into action and they're like, oh,
there goes the let them theory. But here's a question
(23:12):
for you, Lise. To say that her book is popular
right now is quite an understatement. I mean, she's just
she's going on tour, her podcast has exploded. So why
do you think the let them theory is resonating with
so many people right now?
Speaker 3 (23:29):
What's your theory?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Speaking of theories, Well.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I think as I was reading it, I was thinking,
you know, what is it about this book that's so compelling?
And I think there's a couple of things. Number One,
I think that it it doesn't candy coat anything, so
it's like she just calls it as it is. And
I think there's a certain realism there that people are craving, Like, yeah,
(23:53):
I get that it's hard to just live a life
that feels filling and to have loving, healthy relationships most
of the time. I get it's hard, but I don't
want somebody to placate me in trying to move my
life towards a closer than my ideal. And I think
she just really does it in a very kind but
(24:17):
you know, those are the facts kind of way. So
I think there's an appeal to that. And I think
that I think there's a lot of fear in our
society right now. There's so much uncertainty for so many reasons,
and I think that there's something about this book which
just is giving people permission to disengage with their fear,
(24:40):
step away from it, and choose how to re enter
their life. And I think that's very appealing too. I
don't know, why do you think it's so popular.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Well, first of all, you made some great points, you know,
the you know realism that people are creating and this empowerment,
And yeah, I think you're absolutely correct. So I don't
know why everybody else is loving it, but I do
know why I love it. And it's kind of a
(25:09):
mantra of mine for a very long time, and it's
been a mantra of ours for a very long time.
And that's that information is power, and I love information.
I love to write about stuff. I'd love to read
about stuff. I love information, and I do feel that
information is power. So it's very empowering to know that
(25:30):
I can gather information and make choices accordingly. The other
thing that I love about this is it really focuses
on observing observing people mostly she talks about their actions, like,
you know, don't necessarily listen to their words, how are
they acting? And I think that that's powerful as well,
(25:53):
So that's why it's resonating for me. The other thing
is it's practical and when you do it right, it works,
I mean, and that's a good recipe for a good
book for sure.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And I love how personal it is. She gives a
lot of her own examples, which makes it very vulnerable
almost and really gives challenging examples like things like the
one that I think would resonate a lot with our
audience is that she talks. She refers several times to
the scenario of a spouse really seeing unhealthy behavior in
(26:30):
their spouse and wanting their spouse to change, you know,
maybe they need to start working out, as kind of
the examples she goes on and how you can kind
of navigate that situation when you have every right to
fear for their health and you know it affects you greatly,
maybe it affects your kids, and who knows what. But
she kind of brings in motivational interviewing concepts and how
(26:53):
to deal with that, but just weaves in and let
them theory, and I think a very challenging circumstances which
I'm sure many of our loose confront too, because we hear,
you know, people who have loved guns who are diagnosed
with difficult disease, they want them to do certain things
the person may or may not want to do them themselves.
How do you handle that? How do you move forward
in that situation? So I think this book in that
(27:14):
way can give people very clear, not easy, but clear guidance.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh, I would agree. I love that section and you're right,
it's very practical and you can and she tells you
what not to do, you know, in those areas as well.
So I think that's yeah, it's I mean, bottom line, Lise,
is it is a book that I have recommended to friends.
It's a book I would recommend. I congratulate, thank you
(27:40):
to me, and congratulations to Mel Robbins and her success
well deserved, great book and I highly recommend it. So, Lise,
this has been a great show. I'm wondering if you
have any final one second words, and then maybe you
could thank our sponsors again.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, well, you know, we don't often do shows where
we're sort of promoting a book. Mel Robbins did not
ask us to do this. If Mel, if you're listening,
you want to come on our show, we'd be delighted
to have you. But I think what we're really doing
this for is because you and I were both impacted
by this book. We feel like it's helpful and it
can be helpful to you. So yeah, we just wanted
(28:23):
to give you a little preview if it feels like
it's something would resonate with you, go for it and
we hope it's helpful. And as Carolyn said, a lot
of the concepts are sort of touched on this podcast
in any case. But with that, I would like to
thank our sponsors pro Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Formula cetreaut gluet
(28:44):
to Thion Superior Glutathion to support liver and immune health,
Cognizance to the Coling to enhance memory, focus and attention,
and doctor Hira's award winning shelf Stable Probiotic. And thanks
to you Carolyn for your recommendation of the book and
your amazing insights and your commitment to living a real,
(29:07):
honest and self fulfilled life.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh well, thank you and right back at you, my friend. Okay, everyone,
may you experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive.
Have a great night.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
S
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I'm here with my co host and
good friend, doctor Lise Olschuler. Hello, Lise, how are you?
I'm good?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm great. I'm a little tired. I'm a little tired
because of the new but I'm great.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I know. I can't believe you're raising a puppy. That
is not easy. No, it is not.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I have I've forgotten more than I remembered. So but
she's adorable. Oh good, yeah, good.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well. I just got back from a vacation in Spain.
I was on the Brava Coast, which is north a
little bit north of Barcelona, and that is truly a
beautiful part of the world. Was just amazingly gorgeous. Oh good.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'll have to put it on my bucket list for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
All right, Well, you know I'm excited about our show tonight.
We're going to be talking about a new and very
popular book by no Robbins called The Let Them Theory.
We both read it, Yes, we're excited to talk about it.
We found it very very thought provoking, I would say
(01:56):
even kind of life changing. But before we dig in,
one like to thank our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, I found it to be one of the
best self help books that I've read in a very,
very long time. So I'm excited to dig in too.
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doctor Ohira Probiotics dot com. Okay, Lise, let's dig into
the Let Them theory for listeners who have not heard
of the book or read the book yet, give us
your quick take on what the let Them theory is about.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Well, you know, at its core, it's really based on
a very simple idea that has been that mel Robbins
does not claim as her own, but really a theory
that she can across and then went on to do
a lot of additional research about and interviewed various people
around this concept, So the title really is a big
(04:12):
part of it. Let them So. The idea is essentially
this way of living life where you stop trying to
change what other people do, how they behave, stop trying
to rescue others from their own behaviors. You essentially let
(04:32):
people be who they are, and in exchange or along
with that, you let me so. It's let them let
me so. Then in response, you also are freed up
to then just do you and respond to their behavior,
not in a way that tries to change their behavior
or excuse their behavior or work around their behavior, but
(04:56):
really seeing their behavior as it is, letting yourself then Okay,
ask yourself, what am I going to do at this
point in time? And so with that very basic concept,
mel Robbins gives a lot of different scenarios in which
that theory can be very transformative, ranging from managing your
(05:17):
social interactions, managing work conflicts, managing relationship decisions. So she
really takes a lot of time and space in her
book to give her own personal life examples, examples from
her friends, and kind of takes the theory and crystallizes
(05:38):
it into these various applications, all the while staying true
to this concept of just let them and then let me.
How do I do?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You did great? And I'm going to add yeah, I
found the book to be I really enjoyed it. I
actually did the audiobook because I was doing a road Yeah. Yeah,
she's quite entertaining, a wonderful narrator. So I feel that
the book is all about awareness and empowerment, and it's
very practical in nature. So let Them is all about
(06:12):
the awareness part. But I feel like the true gold
within the theory is that let me part that you
talked about. I almost wish it was called the let
me theory because that's really the important part. I think
Mel does a great job explaining that a person's words
and actions are meant to be information that we then
(06:33):
take in. It's not meant to change those those actions,
or person or anything else. It's not meant to take
things personally. It's meant to act as information. That's the
awareness part. So then we take that information in and
then we use that information to make wise and healthy
choices for ourselves, and that's the empowering part. So at first,
(06:55):
when I got into the book, I was a little
skeptical because it's like, wait, a minute, I'm just supposed
to let them do whatever the heck they want, and
that's not really what it's about at all. You let
people be who they are and do what they're going
to do, but then you use that information to let
you make decisions, and it could be where you decide, oh,
(07:17):
you know what, that's not working for me, so I'm
going to go in a different direction. You don't take
it personally. You just use that to make different choices.
And that's where I feel like the book is very empowering,
and it's about choices, and it's about our choices, and
you know what else, it's about taking responsibility. So I
(07:38):
love the fact that she kind of puts it back
on us and helps us to be empowered. So what
how did I do.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
You be great? I do that they let me part? Is?
I think that's actually well, there's you know, it's funny
because I had two reactions listening to the book. I
listened to it as well. On the one hand, I thought, gosh,
this is such a simple concept. Let them just like,
let people be who they are and then just let
me be who I am. No big deal, easy peasy.
But on the other hand, of course, it's not easy,
(08:13):
and I found myself, especially in listening to her examples
and thinking of similar situations in my own life, I
found myself challenged. And so I think that, and she
makes the point several times that this is not easy.
I think you make the good point that, you know,
she talks a lot about awareness is the first step,
just being really aware of how people are acting on
(08:36):
their own accord and how we are responding to that.
I think the next part is the courage it takes
to then do the let me part, which you know
is not always easy, because in many of her examples
she talks about even with an awareness of somebody doing
something that let's say you find hurtful. Let's say somebody
(08:56):
a good friend of yours is ghosting you and they're
not respond into your text, they're not calling you, and
you feel let down by that, and in fact, you
feel like anxious, like what did I do wrong? How
come she's how come this person's not responding to her?
Or whatever the care might be. So you know, Mel
would say, yeah, you just have to just let them
not respond and not necessarily assign reason to it. But
(09:20):
then you can choose what you do with that Are
you going to wallow in it and feel bad about yourself?
Or are you going to get on the phone and
call them, or are you going just just maybe this
friendship has kind of lived its life and I can
pay attention to something else. But that step, I think
is actually much harder to do in real life than
(09:41):
it is, you know, when just reading about it. So
I found that kind of the challenging part consistently.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, I'm still finding that part challenging because I'm trying
to obviously put this into practice, and I have an
example for you, and I would like us to use
some practical examples if we can. So you know that
I have this this group of callgirls that I go
horseback riding with, and it seems like I'm oftentimes the
ring leader and I'm like, hey, who wants to ride? Well,
(10:08):
there were certain people in the group that would just
not respond. So I took this one person aside and
I said, Okay, here's the deal. If I take the
time to invite you to do something with me, my
expectation is that you will respond, And if you continue
(10:30):
not to respond, then maybe I won't want to invite you.
So I really hope that you respond and you respect
the fact that I'm inviting you to do something with me.
I want you to say yay or nay so we
can plan accordingly. I mean, obviously, when it comes to
horseback riding, we need to know how many riders, what
type of ride. I mean, it all comes together, and
(10:52):
we need that information. But I think that's the other
thing that I'm really focusing on, being transparent and clearly
communicating my expectations when it comes to the let me part.
So what stands out these as something that you've taken
from the book and put into practice in your life.
(11:12):
Is there anything?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Oh? Gosh, yeah, A ton yeah. And I think probably
one of the more challenging examples is I was talking
with somebody who I a great deal about, and this
person explained to me that they have been feeling a
lot of hurt about my inattention to them and had
(11:39):
some really good points about why they felt disregarded by me,
ignored by me, disrespected even my inattention, and yet within
that there was also a lot of their own story
around my behavior. And at first, when I was listening
to this, I started to kind of try to defend myself,
(11:59):
and then I remember the let them there, and I thought,
you know what, this is just their story, This is
their this is the way they're reconciling their hurt about
me not respond not reaching out in the way that
they wanted. So let them let them feel that, let
them have this reaction, and then let me do is
(12:22):
how I want to respond to that. So in that situation,
I basically said, you know, I really see that how
I've behaved has been hurtful to you. I see and
I hear how hurt you are. And I have my
own no sort of explanations for why some of this happened,
(12:42):
but I also can now see how my behavior affects you,
and I'm going to go back into my life and
think about if and how I can change to meet
your needs. I may or I may not be able to.
But it was like such, It was the least sort
of interactive with this person around that is almost felt
a little cold. I did it in a very loving way,
(13:04):
but it was just it was very much for me
about to let them let me very in action, and
not a way I would have necessarily handled that prior
to reading the book.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean, especially in that example, I think that
when difficult conversations come up and one person does get
a little defensive. It's so easy to match that defensiveness
with defensiveness, and then that becomes such an unhealthy cycle.
I think you're right. It does almost seem like I'm
(13:37):
being cold, or like I'm being too direct, or I
mean I had to draw. Another example for me is
I had to draw a boundary with a friend who's
just addicted to drama and it was just driving me crazy.
And I'm actually doing a Psychology Today article on addicted
to drama just because it's just so prevalent. And the
(13:58):
interesting thing these is when I drew that boundary and
I said, Okay, this is how, this is how I
would like our conversations to go, and this is what
I what I don't want to have happen because it
doesn't feel healthy for me. It doesn't feel good for me.
She stopped calling. Isn't that interesting? So I think being
(14:19):
aware that sometimes when we are transparent, we're clear about
our expectations, we communicate clearly with love and compassion, but
we're clear and we're direct. Sometimes some people just can't that,
They just can't handle that it and it can be
(14:40):
a struggle for them, and now you know what, I'm
letting her. I'm letting her go and we'll see what happens.
But I think that the thing that I am putting
into practice is just trying to be better at identifying
(15:01):
my feelings about conversations energy like reading the room when
I get into when I walk into a room, and
just like how am I feeling and how do my
interactions impact me my health, my mental, physical, spiritual health,
and take that information and then make choices based on
(15:24):
that information. I have a tendency lease to be very
black and white, and that can be challenging for the
let them let me theory because it can be very
easy to say, oh, yeah, well you're going to act
that way, well, then forget it. I don't want you
in my life, you know. And I mean, I'm not
(15:45):
that definitive, but I think that we have to have
cautioned and do this all with compassion. But I feel
like this book has helped me create better boundaries, and
I feel like my relationships are actually getting better because
of this book.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah. Well, and I think she makes the case like
her last chapter is about the real relationship is the
one we have with ourselves, and I think that's really
at the heart of all this, which is why I
think let me is a good idea. So but you know,
like another example I'll share just to kind of get
(16:25):
to the point I'm trying to make, is that there's
a conversation that I had with somebody and they referenced
a conversation that they had had with another friend of mine,
and I immediately felt left out. I have this thing
about fomo, like I always fear of missing out, Like
it's just the thing I have, right, So I was like, aw, well,
why didn't I get included in that? And how do
(16:47):
they not love me enough? Like were they talking about me?
Were they purposely like leaving like all these crazy, crazy thoughts,
Like I knew they were crazy thoughts as I was
having them. And yet that's what our brain does. It
just goes into this kind of panic mode. So I'm like, WHOA.
So I took a breath, and I think this is
(17:07):
part of this theory too, is being responsive instead of
being reactive. So I just took a breath and I said, Okay,
you know what, let them let them have their time together.
I can't change them. I can't change anything. About them.
If they want to change on their own time and
their own way, great, I can't do it. I can't
change them. So they will continue to do this or
(17:30):
they did this and that's their choice. That's great. Let them. Now,
how do I want to feel about this? Like? Am
I really hurt as a result of may any different?
Do I feel any different in this moment not being
part of that conversation? No? And who am I left
with me? So? What is it about me that I
can embrace and step forward? And kind of where's my
(17:51):
own resilience and where's my own sense of belonging? And
I think you know, tho's the that's the hard part again,
But I think that's the beauty of this theory, is
really just giving yourself a moment to sort of pull
back the power we just give to others and pull
it back into ourselves and take responsibility as you said
for that.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, that's such a good point because she does hit
home on this this idea that we have been giving
up our power to other people for a long time.
And it's interesting because I'm rereading Four Agreements by Don
Miguel Ruiz and he talks about how we have been
conditioned to be afraid of how people will treat us
(18:36):
and how they feel about us, and we need to
kind of create a new agreement, like, Okay, I don't
need to be afraid anymore that someone's not going to
like me, and I need to not take things personally,
and you know, so I feel like this is something
that let them. Theory does a really great job because,
(19:00):
like you said, she gives such great examples, and she
even talks about like if you have a friend who
is struggling with addiction, you know, and she talks about
making new friends at different times in our lives and
you know, like making an effort and having things not
be one sided or lopsided and standing up for yourself
(19:24):
and all of those things. And I think you're right
if we can go back to the core of why
we're acting that way, Like I've had similar situations as
you describe, where I've I've felt left out, and the
fear in that is like nobody's going to love me.
I'm going to be alone, you know, I'm I'm not
(19:45):
going to have any friends and blah blah blah blah blah.
You know where our mind goes. So I think that
when we can pause and say, Okay, Carolyn, that's a
fear based response, and you know, people love you, you
have a lot of love, you know what I mean,
and just kind of take a step back, take a pause,
and kind of reassure ourselves that's our responsibility. I think
(20:07):
that that is very helpful, and I think that mel
does a really great job of bringing that point home.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, you make a really good point there,
And you know, again, I think that it's the the ultimately,
the challenge is to love ourselves enough to let ourselves
to do the let me part, and to feel really
strong in that because she also brings a lot of
(20:34):
science in and she brings a lot of science into
like the stress response. Early in the book, she talks
about that and how we when we're in a stressed
feeling about something, our brain chemistry just doesn't work the
way it normally does. So the fear that you just
talked about kind of predominates, and she talks about, you know,
it's important to be aware of that, to take space
(20:55):
from it and yourself just sort of take some time
away from it. And in her chapter about relationships, she
talks about the you know the fact that our nervous
system literally wires itself around our relationship. So when there's
a change in the relationship, our nervous system just needs
times sometimes to kind of adjust and catch up to
(21:17):
the difference. And so I think there's like correct, there's
really this very sweet element of gives up a break
and you know you're not going to get it right
undred percent, but just try and recognize that you're doing
your best and keep on prioritizing yourself to do your best.
Like that. That came through in a lot of different ways,
(21:38):
which I appreciated in the book too.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and I love the science. And actually there were
a lot of concepts that Mel talks about in her
podcast and in the book that are similar to what
we've been talking about for years with five to Thrive.
You know, she talks about small steps, don't beat yourself up,
you know, small steps in that up. And she's also
talked a lot about self respect, respecting yourself and not
(22:05):
allowing others to, you know, take advantage of you, and
and not not flipping into that victim mode because you know,
at the end of the day, it's our responsibility, it's
not that it's not that other person. And I love
that part. So it's not the other person, it's our responsibility.
We get to choose what we will tolerate and what
(22:28):
we won't, and tolerates kind of a strong word, but
we get to choose, and we also get to choose
when we want to talk to that person and how
we want to talk to that person, and what we
want to do. And so I felt that that whole part,
the the awareness and the empowerment of it. But it
does take practice, and it takes a reminder. I have
(22:49):
a group of women here who are have either read
it or are reading it, so we're doing like a
little book cluby kind of thing and ye just to
remind us. So it's kind of cool when you have
your friends read it because then then you, you know,
you kind of put it into action and they're like, oh,
there goes the let them theory. But here's a question
(23:12):
for you, Lise. To say that her book is popular
right now is quite an understatement. I mean, she's just
she's going on tour, her podcast has exploded. So why
do you think the let them theory is resonating with
so many people right now?
Speaker 3 (23:29):
What's your theory?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Speaking of theories, Well.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I think as I was reading it, I was thinking,
you know, what is it about this book that's so compelling?
And I think there's a couple of things. Number One,
I think that it it doesn't candy coat anything, so
it's like she just calls it as it is. And
I think there's a certain realism there that people are craving, Like, yeah,
(23:53):
I get that it's hard to just live a life
that feels filling and to have loving, healthy relationships most
of the time. I get it's hard, but I don't
want somebody to placate me in trying to move my
life towards a closer than my ideal. And I think
she just really does it in a very kind but
(24:17):
you know, those are the facts kind of way. So
I think there's an appeal to that. And I think
that I think there's a lot of fear in our
society right now. There's so much uncertainty for so many reasons,
and I think that there's something about this book which
just is giving people permission to disengage with their fear,
(24:40):
step away from it, and choose how to re enter
their life. And I think that's very appealing too. I
don't know, why do you think it's so popular.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Well, first of all, you made some great points, you know,
the you know realism that people are creating and this empowerment,
And yeah, I think you're absolutely correct. So I don't
know why everybody else is loving it, but I do
know why I love it. And it's kind of a
(25:09):
mantra of mine for a very long time, and it's
been a mantra of ours for a very long time.
And that's that information is power, and I love information.
I love to write about stuff. I'd love to read
about stuff. I love information, and I do feel that
information is power. So it's very empowering to know that
(25:30):
I can gather information and make choices accordingly. The other
thing that I love about this is it really focuses
on observing observing people mostly she talks about their actions, like,
you know, don't necessarily listen to their words, how are
they acting? And I think that that's powerful as well,
(25:53):
So that's why it's resonating for me. The other thing
is it's practical and when you do it right, it works,
I mean, and that's a good recipe for a good
book for sure.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And I love how personal it is. She gives a
lot of her own examples, which makes it very vulnerable
almost and really gives challenging examples like things like the
one that I think would resonate a lot with our
audience is that she talks. She refers several times to
the scenario of a spouse really seeing unhealthy behavior in
(26:30):
their spouse and wanting their spouse to change, you know,
maybe they need to start working out, as kind of
the examples she goes on and how you can kind
of navigate that situation when you have every right to
fear for their health and you know it affects you greatly,
maybe it affects your kids, and who knows what. But
she kind of brings in motivational interviewing concepts and how
(26:53):
to deal with that, but just weaves in and let
them theory, and I think a very challenging circumstances which
I'm sure many of our loose confront too, because we hear,
you know, people who have loved guns who are diagnosed
with difficult disease, they want them to do certain things
the person may or may not want to do them themselves.
How do you handle that? How do you move forward
in that situation? So I think this book in that
(27:14):
way can give people very clear, not easy, but clear guidance.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh, I would agree. I love that section and you're right,
it's very practical and you can and she tells you
what not to do, you know, in those areas as well.
So I think that's yeah, it's I mean, bottom line, Lise,
is it is a book that I have recommended to friends.
It's a book I would recommend. I congratulate, thank you
(27:40):
to me, and congratulations to Mel Robbins and her success
well deserved, great book and I highly recommend it. So, Lise,
this has been a great show. I'm wondering if you
have any final one second words, and then maybe you
could thank our sponsors again.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, well, you know, we don't often do shows where
we're sort of promoting a book. Mel Robbins did not
ask us to do this. If Mel, if you're listening,
you want to come on our show, we'd be delighted
to have you. But I think what we're really doing
this for is because you and I were both impacted
by this book. We feel like it's helpful and it
can be helpful to you. So yeah, we just wanted
(28:23):
to give you a little preview if it feels like
it's something would resonate with you, go for it and
we hope it's helpful. And as Carolyn said, a lot
of the concepts are sort of touched on this podcast
in any case. But with that, I would like to
thank our sponsors pro Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Formula cetreaut gluet
(28:44):
to Thion Superior Glutathion to support liver and immune health,
Cognizance to the Coling to enhance memory, focus and attention,
and doctor Hira's award winning shelf Stable Probiotic. And thanks
to you Carolyn for your recommendation of the book and
your amazing insights and your commitment to living a real,
(29:07):
honest and self fulfilled life.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh well, thank you and right back at you, my friend. Okay, everyone,
may you experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive.
Have a great night.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
S
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