June 24, 2025 • 28 mins
Not sleeping well? You're not alone. Estimates show that one in three Americans are not getting the recommended amount of sleep, which can be harmful to overall health in many ways. On this show, Lise and Karolyn talk about the health benefits of sound sleep and discuss some interesting strategies on how you can get the Zzzzs you need. If you or someone you love struggles with sleep, you won't want to miss this show!
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I'm here with my good friend and
co host, doctor Lese Alschuller.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Hello, Lise already, Hello Carolyn. I'm very well. Thank you.
How about you? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm great. Yeah, I'm gonna go camping tomorrow. I totally
into camping this year. Exciting, I know, I'm super psyched. Yeah,
I'm happy to hear that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Hey, I'm excited about our show at tonight, and I'm
sure you are because we've talked. We've had this topic
come up before. You and I, in fact, have talked
about this very thing. And I think it's because you're
a little obsessed about the topic, because you're a little
obsessed about getting enough sleep.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It's true, it's true.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, you know what you come by it. Honestly, I
am as well, and I think the more sleep deprived
we get, for whatever reason the more obsessed we get
with trying to get good sleep. And you know, one
in three Americans are not getting the recommended seven hours
of sleep each night. So that means one out of
every three people listening to this show are not getting
enough sleep. It's a big problem. So we're going to
(01:47):
just dive in and give us some strategies to folks.
But before we do that, can you thank our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I would love to beginning with Cetria, patented form of
glutathion clinically proven to raise black gludo thione levels. Glutethione
is the master antioxidant and the body's primary defense against
free radicals. It also helps support respiratory health. For more information,
visit Cetria Gludothione dot com. Also cognizanceiticoline, which is nature's
(02:13):
way of keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing on
all cylinders. If you're looking for a way to enhance
your brain function, including memory, focus, and attention, look for
cognizant on the label or go to cognizan dot com
for more information. Prothriver's Wellness Brain is a product that
contains cognizant as well as other brain supporting nutrients. And herbs.
You can find Prothrivers Wellness Brain online at Pureformulas dot com.
(02:38):
There's also Prothrivers Wellness Sleep, which combines higher dose melatonin
and other sleep supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers.
You can find Prothrivers Wellness Sleep also at pureformulas dot
com and doctor ohiras Probiotics. It's a best selling probiotic
for more than thirty years, and it contains twelve probiotic
(02:59):
strains that our shelf stable, so no refrigeration is required
because of a unique three year fermentation process. It's a
very effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira Probiotics dot com. Okay, Lise,
as you mentioned, the reason I'm so sleep obsessed is
because I have really struggled over the years, just like
(03:19):
so many other people. But based on the research, I've
made getting a good night's sleep a top priority. So
before we dive into our strategies, let's talk about why
sleep is so important. So, Lise, what does the research
tell us about the health benefits of sound sleep, or
if you would like, tell us about what happens to
(03:40):
our health when we don't get enough sleep, you.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Know, So we've Actually, this is a very fair question
because it wasn't until relatively recently that we the collective
greater we determined that in fact there was a health
benefit to sleep. Almost every living space these sleeps, so
obviously it serves some function, but nobody can really figure
(04:05):
out like why why do we have to sleep? And
what we have discovered is that there are very important
things that happen during sleep, that only happen during sleep,
and that are essential to our health. So, for example,
there are certain genes which are called clock genes, which
are regulated by the two primary hormones that control our
(04:28):
circadian rhythm, melatonin and cortisol. And the secretion of melatonin
is really only occurs in the dark and at night,
and then the secretion of coursol tends to occur during
the day. And so when ourselves buying these two different hormones,
there's messages that are translated intracellularly, and then various genes
(04:50):
are turned on or off. And in fact, a lot
of the genes that are turned on during sleep, which
is the time of melatonin. Our genes that are involved
in very critical functions related to sell repair, clean up,
restoring our antioxidant levels, the glymphatic system in the brain,
(05:14):
which is a way that our brain kind of cleanses itself.
So a lot of very important maintenance functions occur only
during sleep. So that's one critical thing. And another thing
that we know that there's all these different parts of sleep.
There's these sleep cycles, and these sleep cycles are actually
very important as well. They are different things happen during
(05:38):
those different parts of the cycle. And one of the
things that happens during sleep is dreaming. And we used
to think of dreaming as just kind of a nice,
cool thing, you know, there's some ways we can interpret dreams,
et cetera, et cetera. But in fact, dreaming is a
very important way for us to organize, to orporate, to
(06:01):
kind of come to terms with, if you will, the
experiences of our day. Some people argue that it's also
a way that we tap into the greater collective unconscious
and regardless, dreaming is a very important way to maintain
sanity that kind of processing. So really, in the end,
(06:22):
sleep is important for health maintenance and for maintaining sanity.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
M I do find it interesting that even though you're sleeping,
it's really one of the most active times of the body.
And it's I also find it interesting that lack of
sleep can be so detrimental. You know, you your body
goes into insulin resistance, you gain weight if you have
h uh, poor sleep, you have a weakened immune system.
(06:51):
You know, you mentioned the brain. You know, our cognizance
can suffer. Our mental health obviously can can suffer. So yes,
sleep is really it's really significant, and it's really really important.
If you're going to do one thing for your health,
focusing on sleep is a great place to start. So okay, Lise,
when you're talking to your patients about sound of sleep strategies,
(07:16):
what are some of your favorites that may apply to many,
if not most, of your patients.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Okay, So first, I would actually counsel patients not to
rely on certain medications for especially the benzodiazepines. These are
things which include drugs like adavan that's commonly recommended for sleep.
That's lurazepam, or alprazolam which is xanax, or that's another
(07:48):
common one, estezolam which is pro sum like. These are
all things that people are recommended or prescribed to help
them sleep, and they are sedatives, but they're very addictive,
and they're very hard to stop taking. Once you start,
it's very very difficult to get off those. People become
dependent on them. And interestingly, the more often people use
(08:14):
these will call them hypnotics. That's another way that this
category of drugs is referred to. The more often that
people take hypnotics, the higher their risk of death, and
specifically their higher the risk of death from things like cancer.
So they actually adversely affect our health, which is peculiar.
(08:36):
You would think, why would something that increases sleep actually
decrease our longevity? And in fact, it's thought that the
reason for that is that these hypnotics don't support a
healthy sleep cycle. So they cause sort of a certain
ability to fall asleep and go into maybe shallower forms
of sleep, but not cycle into rim and to deep sleep.
(09:00):
Been up and out, and that because we're not actually
cycling through as we sleep on these hypnotics, we're not
getting the benefits of sleep. So that's one of the
first things that I councel my patients about. And I
know that was probably not what you were looking for,
but you know, I'm going to give you a shot
at this. What do you think that is important?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I actually really am glad that you brought that up,
because I was shocked when I read the research about
these medications and the fact that they increase cancer and
that they decrease longevity. And it is in fact because
of the quality of sleep. So when we're looking at
sleep strategies, we want to look at not just quantity
(09:40):
the number of hours, but also quality. So I'm very
happy that you brought that up as a memor. Okay,
so I am going to talk about magnesium and L fianine.
So I personally have noticed over the years that there's
a big difference when I take four hundred milligrams of
magnesium for sleep at night and then I combine it
with two hundred to three hundred milligrams of lthnin. And
here's why let's start with magnesium. Magnesium is so critical.
(10:05):
It's involved in more than three hundred different enzyme systems
in the body, which impact such a diverse variety of
chemical reactions that influence our health on many levels, including sleep.
So specific to sleep, magnesium does help with not only
the quantity but the quality of our sleep. But what
I like about magnesium the most is that it helps
(10:29):
with all of these other issues you know, brain function,
mental health, and just a lot more. So you're really
getting a big bang for your book with magnesium. And
the reason I have added elthianine in the past, I
specifically use some theanine because that's the brand that's been
used in a lot of the studies, is because my
(10:49):
sleep issues have often been related to anxiety, and the
research is clear that el faianine helps ease anxiety. But
elthianine and sleep is not just about anxiety. Elthianine has
many mechanisms of action when it comes to sleep. You know,
it slows our brain activity, It increases relaxation, newer transmitters
(11:12):
like BABA, it increases melatonin levels, which is important in
which we've discussed. And interestingly, new research is showing that
the combination of magnesium and elthianine is really helpful. And
there was a study that was done in twenty twenty
two showing that magnesium, when it's combined with el theanine,
(11:37):
it actually enhances the effectiveness of the althianine, specifically when
it comes to sleep. So I feel like magnesium and
el theanine are so beneficial on so many levels that
adding it to your regimen before you go to bed
at night is pretty powerful and it's going to benefit
(11:58):
your health in a lot of different ways, not just
helping you get it sold sleep.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Love it, and I love that you mentioned the combination
of these two things because I think that this is important.
In fact, I was just having a conversation with somebody
who is an avid Instagram listener watcher, and a lot
of times people, you know, whether they have expertise or not,
will tout a particular thing and if you look up
(12:23):
the if you just look up a magnesium, you look
at a monograph if you will of magnesium, you'll see
all sorts of benefits. And so these Instagram people will
talk about all these benefits and then people will listen
and think, Okay, I need to take magnesium. But that's
sort of out of context because usually these compounds work
best in combination with other things. That's particularly true of
(12:46):
vitamins and minerals. They almost always work in concert with
other vitamins and minerals. So you're not going to get
the full benefit if you just take one thing. So
that's one aspect. The other is that sometimes there are
these synergisms between for example, althenian and magnesium, where they
really work in concert much more effectively. So in reality,
(13:06):
as much as you can say magnesium is associated with
better sleep, which is true, it's really going to be
more effective if you combine it with something like Althenians.
I'm really happy you talked about both of them.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Good. What about you? Do you have another strategy?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, so I'm going to talk about one thing and
just to contradict myself. No, actually, I'm going to context
it to be truthful. I want to talk about botanicals
because I think there are some plants that have really
a beautiful way of interacting with our nervous system to
improve sleep without any habituation effects, without any addictive qualities,
(13:47):
without any hangover or side effects. And again, there are
many botanical formulas on the market that combine of these
herbs together, and those synergistic formulas can be magical. So
you might see an herbal formula that has things like
passion flower camea mile scutl area or American skull cap,
(14:12):
California poppy, Ashwagandha cavacava. So look for these things because
even though these formulas necessarily have less of each one,
that synergism that happens we sometimes call this the entourage effect,
where there's like this this combination of things that create
a greater effect than any one little component or one herb,
(14:34):
and these combination products can be quite remarkable. Having said that,
one I would like to highlight for a moment is covacava. So,
cavacava is part of the pepper family, and it comes
from the Polynesian islands the South Pacific. It's used there
ceremonially as a way to encourage people to develop a
(14:59):
relax socialization with one another. And there's a whole ceremonial
way in which kava is prepared, which involves how it's
harvested very respectfully to the kava plant. It's you use
the roots, so the way it's dug up is very ceremonial.
The cleaning process is very ceremonial. And then it's a
(15:19):
very traditional form is the kava root is sort of chewed.
Then the action, the interaction of the kava and the
saliva activates the kava to some extent, and then people
spit into this communal bowl and then the next person
spits in. You get this kind of communal kava that's
then used. That's an example of sort of a traditional
ceremonial use. And I just want to say that because
(15:41):
a lot of our modern used plants actually do have
this rich and important historical tradition. The modern use or
the Western I should say, use of kava is in
fact as a sedative. But kava is unique, so it
has the ability to create a feeling of calmness. It's
very good to reducing zeniety, and it's also a muscle relaxant.
(16:03):
So a lot of people who hold their tension, their
anxiety in their muscles, they get tight neck, tight shoulders
when they're anxious. Cova is kind of perfect for them,
and it typically and it can be used in a
very dose sensitive way. So a smaller dose of kava
is more anxiolytic or anxiety reducing, a slightly larger dose
(16:26):
within therapeutic range is more sedative. But it affects the
limbic system, so it actually not only creates sedation, but
it creates a sense of almost not euphoria, but well being.
So it improves people's mood. And I think a lot
of times when people don't sleep well, they just start
(16:47):
to feel lousy about life. And this is a very
useful plant to address that despondency and that tendency to
be kind of withdrawn from their own life. Cove can
re store an engagement in living at the same time
having this very gentle but very noticeable sedative effect, anxiolytic effect.
(17:11):
There's a little bit of concern about kava being toxic
to the liver, but in fact, if you're getting your
kava from a reputable company, company that's been around for
many decades and sells products and has sold products for
a long time, they're going to be very careful about
their cova and how they prepare it. Good quality kava
that's prepared appropriately and then dost appropriately is quite safe
(17:35):
and is really not a concern. And yeah, and you'll
see oftentimes covas combined with Valerian, those two together are
particularly potent. They kind of address the anxiety and the
sleep together in a really nice way. So that's one
of my favorite plants. Wow, that's really cool. You know,
cava has not been on my radar. I have not
(17:56):
written about kava in years. I'm really glad that you
brought kava up. And I would agree about the botanicals
and the botanical combinations. There are just some really great
formulations out there, so very good, very good. Yeah, and
just when one quick comment on that, because some people
(18:17):
listening might be, you know, still thinking about but it's
supposed to be toxic. And just to say one other
thing on that, the research on the reported cases on
kava toxicity really only occurred when people were using excessive
doses or they were also doing something else that was
very livertoxic, drinking excessive amounts of alcohol or taking a
(18:41):
head drug damaging medication. But when cova is used in
the therapeutic dosage range, which is typically recommended on the
bottle that you're using or by your healthcare practitioner who's
trained in this, there's really no reported or known safety concerns.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, good, thank you for clarifying that. Well, I would
like to talk about melatonin, but I want to talk
about melatonin from a little different perspective. So melatonin is
perhaps one of the most well known nutrients for sleep,
wouldn't you agree, Lees, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So melatonin I have had a paradoxical effect. About twenty
percent of the population can have a paradoxical effect when
taking melatonin, which means that the melatonin actually makes you jittery,
and it doesn't help you fall asleep. So for years
(19:41):
I avoided melatonin because of that paradoxical effect. What I
have found out lately, like over the last two years,
is that a very small dose of melatonin is actually
actually does in fact work for me. So Lise, I
would I would love to have your thoughts on this
(20:02):
and if you think that I'm just super unique, or
if this is something that you've noticed where dosing becomes
significant when it comes to melotonin, and maybe you could
even say a few words about high dose melatonin for
cancer Survivors's I've weaved three questions into one. Okay, I
(20:27):
I think I just remember too actually, but look so
low dose melotony, Yes, some people are sensitive to higher doses,
and low doses are can be quite effective for some people. Also,
some people don't do well with a regular melatonin, but
when they use a time release melatonin, they actually experience.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Really good quality sleep. So that's another way to sort
of approach melatonin. Sometimes, uh, melatonin from a play to
derive sources more effective and more tolerable than other melotone
in which a little dirty little secret in the market
is that the vast majority of melatonin that sold as
(21:12):
a dietary supplement is actually synthesized. It's sort of a
molecule that was originally found in natural products and then
it's manufactured essentially, so it's relatively rare to find true
naturally derived melatonin. There is a company that only and
exclusively sells plant drive melatonin. There's some products out there
(21:36):
that are full of concentrated cherry juice, which is somewhat
higher melotone, still small dose, but you would get some
natural melotone in that way, So that's another way to
improve the toleration. And then, of course large doses, relatively
large which in oncology, most people with cancer are recommended.
(21:56):
If they're seeing an integrative practitioner, they're probably going to
be recommended to take melatonin at some point in a
dose of twenty milligrams, which is much higher than what
is required for sleep. But the reason for that dose
is that there have been over four hundred clinical trials
on that dose of melatonin in the oncology setting, and
(22:17):
the melatonin is associated with improved survival, reduce risk of recurrence,
and better toleration of chemotherapy and radiation in almost all
cancer types so it's a very useful adjunct, and it
has this really great side effect, which is it helps
(22:37):
people have a good night's sleep at twenty just as
if they were taking one, three, five, whatever. So unless
you have a paradoxical reaction, that's a very legitimate dose
in the context of oncology.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right. I'm so glad that you brought that up, because that,
I mean similar to magnesium. I think that when we
think of melatonin, we think of, oh, well, it helps
us sleep, and that's it. But melatona is a very
powerful molecule, and you've just described it's anti cancer effect.
You know, it has a lot of other health benefits.
So incorporating it into a sleep routine, either at a
(23:16):
higher dose if you're a cancer survivor, or at a
very low dose if you're like me and you can't
tolerate a high dose, it's very effective nutrient.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, one hundred percent, I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Okay, So do you have another strategy before we wrap
this sleep show up?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Well, I'm kind of torn, to be honest, because I
want to talk about too, So I'll mention one and
then I'll do a little bit of a deeper dive
into the second. I want to mention mindfulness because although
I think it's something we you and I both talk
a lot about. We've had shows on mindfulness in various forms.
It's very important to obtaining good quality sleep when people
(23:59):
have in mindfulness practice, and it doesn't even have to
be at bedtime. Just having a regular practice of gaining
presence and focus and calm attentive mind can help the
neurological workings of the brain in such a way that
it's easier to fall asleep and stay asleep. So I
(24:19):
would just encourage people to develop a mindfulness practice. And
the one I want to do spend a fraction of
a bit more time on is ashwaganda. This is another
herb that's very popular right now and deservedly so. It
comes from the Arivatic tradition, and there's certain you know, constitutions,
(24:40):
if you will, in Ariveda that are more likely to
benefit from ashwaganda than others. So I'm going to put
that aside for a moment. I just want to give
that a shout out. But I'm not an aerobatic trained practitioner,
so that being said. In Western medicine, we use asha ganda.
The botanical name is whythenia somniff for us some niferas
(25:00):
its second name gives you a clue. It's soomni is
the Latin derivative for sleep, and it really has a
very sedative effect. But it's also unique because it's in
the category of plants we call adaptogens, and adaptogens are
plants that help to mitigate or reset the stress response.
So in the face of stress, if you're taking an adaptagen,
(25:22):
you're less likely to get stuck in the turned on
position response to stress. So your body is more likely
under the influence of an adaptogen to respond to stressors,
but then to quiet itself down and to not get
stuck in this hyper cortosolemic state, which is what people
get stuck in when they're in chronic stress. Now, if
(25:44):
you're in hyperchortosolemic state, that means you have too much
cortosol circulating. So that's going to very much disrupt your
circadian rhythm, which is what I talked about at the beginning,
which is the primary kind of input into the sleep cycle,
melatonein cortisol during the day. If you have a stuck
on stress response system too much cortisol, it's hard for
(26:05):
your body to get enough melatonin secrete it at the
right time at night to get you to sleep. So
adaptogen herbs are really helpful for sleep. And Ashwa gun
is nice because it has this additional sedative effect. So
it's unique in adaptogens in that it can be dosed
at bedtime or in the evening. It'll still help you
(26:26):
reset that stress response system, but you'll also get the
added sedative benefit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I mean, we've done entire shows on adaptogens. I'm so
glad that you brought this one up. And there's kind
of a theme here least, because the strategies that we've
mentioned today, you get a lot of bang for your buck,
you know, like with Ashra Ganda that you're just mentioning,
you know, to help you cope with stress, help you sleep,
help you with a lot of different things, and what
(26:54):
we were talking about with magnesium and melotonin. And I
think that that's the beauty of natural medicine. That's the
beauty of these botanicals and these nutrients. They actually benefit
health on many different levels. So yeah, any final words
before you thank our sponsors again.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Lise, Well, I just love that we brought this up.
I think this should be kind of an annual conversation
for us because there's always new insights and it is
such a problem for folks. So I appreciate you bringing
this to our attention, and I also appreciate our sponsors.
Once again, we thank pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep formula, Cetria glutathione,
(27:36):
the superior glutathione to support liver and immune health, cognizanceticoline
to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor Ohira's
award winning shelf stable probiotic. And thank you Carolyn for
your great insights tonight. Always a pleasure to talk with you,
(27:57):
absolutely and thank you as well. So this has been
a great show. Okay everyone, may you experience joy, laughter, love,
and of course sound asleep.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's time to thrive. Everyone, have a great night.
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazilla and I'm here with my good friend and
co host, doctor Lese Alschuller.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Hello, Lise already, Hello Carolyn. I'm very well. Thank you.
How about you? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm great. Yeah, I'm gonna go camping tomorrow. I totally
into camping this year. Exciting, I know, I'm super psyched. Yeah,
I'm happy to hear that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Hey, I'm excited about our show at tonight, and I'm
sure you are because we've talked. We've had this topic
come up before. You and I, in fact, have talked
about this very thing. And I think it's because you're
a little obsessed about the topic, because you're a little
obsessed about getting enough sleep.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It's true, it's true.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, you know what you come by it. Honestly, I
am as well, and I think the more sleep deprived
we get, for whatever reason the more obsessed we get
with trying to get good sleep. And you know, one
in three Americans are not getting the recommended seven hours
of sleep each night. So that means one out of
every three people listening to this show are not getting
enough sleep. It's a big problem. So we're going to
(01:47):
just dive in and give us some strategies to folks.
But before we do that, can you thank our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I would love to beginning with Cetria, patented form of
glutathion clinically proven to raise black gludo thione levels. Glutethione
is the master antioxidant and the body's primary defense against
free radicals. It also helps support respiratory health. For more information,
visit Cetria Gludothione dot com. Also cognizanceiticoline, which is nature's
(02:13):
way of keeping the brain's energy producing centers firing on
all cylinders. If you're looking for a way to enhance
your brain function, including memory, focus, and attention, look for
cognizant on the label or go to cognizan dot com
for more information. Prothriver's Wellness Brain is a product that
contains cognizant as well as other brain supporting nutrients. And herbs.
You can find Prothrivers Wellness Brain online at Pureformulas dot com.
(02:38):
There's also Prothrivers Wellness Sleep, which combines higher dose melatonin
and other sleep supporting natural ingredients specifically designed for thrivers.
You can find Prothrivers Wellness Sleep also at pureformulas dot
com and doctor ohiras Probiotics. It's a best selling probiotic
for more than thirty years, and it contains twelve probiotic
(02:59):
strains that our shelf stable, so no refrigeration is required
because of a unique three year fermentation process. It's a
very effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor Ohira Probiotics dot com. Okay, Lise,
as you mentioned, the reason I'm so sleep obsessed is
because I have really struggled over the years, just like
(03:19):
so many other people. But based on the research, I've
made getting a good night's sleep a top priority. So
before we dive into our strategies, let's talk about why
sleep is so important. So, Lise, what does the research
tell us about the health benefits of sound sleep, or
if you would like, tell us about what happens to
(03:40):
our health when we don't get enough sleep, you.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Know, So we've Actually, this is a very fair question
because it wasn't until relatively recently that we the collective
greater we determined that in fact there was a health
benefit to sleep. Almost every living space these sleeps, so
obviously it serves some function, but nobody can really figure
(04:05):
out like why why do we have to sleep? And
what we have discovered is that there are very important
things that happen during sleep, that only happen during sleep,
and that are essential to our health. So, for example,
there are certain genes which are called clock genes, which
are regulated by the two primary hormones that control our
(04:28):
circadian rhythm, melatonin and cortisol. And the secretion of melatonin
is really only occurs in the dark and at night,
and then the secretion of coursol tends to occur during
the day. And so when ourselves buying these two different hormones,
there's messages that are translated intracellularly, and then various genes
(04:50):
are turned on or off. And in fact, a lot
of the genes that are turned on during sleep, which
is the time of melatonin. Our genes that are involved
in very critical functions related to sell repair, clean up,
restoring our antioxidant levels, the glymphatic system in the brain,
(05:14):
which is a way that our brain kind of cleanses itself.
So a lot of very important maintenance functions occur only
during sleep. So that's one critical thing. And another thing
that we know that there's all these different parts of sleep.
There's these sleep cycles, and these sleep cycles are actually
very important as well. They are different things happen during
(05:38):
those different parts of the cycle. And one of the
things that happens during sleep is dreaming. And we used
to think of dreaming as just kind of a nice,
cool thing, you know, there's some ways we can interpret dreams,
et cetera, et cetera. But in fact, dreaming is a
very important way for us to organize, to orporate, to
(06:01):
kind of come to terms with, if you will, the
experiences of our day. Some people argue that it's also
a way that we tap into the greater collective unconscious
and regardless, dreaming is a very important way to maintain
sanity that kind of processing. So really, in the end,
(06:22):
sleep is important for health maintenance and for maintaining sanity.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
M I do find it interesting that even though you're sleeping,
it's really one of the most active times of the body.
And it's I also find it interesting that lack of
sleep can be so detrimental. You know, you your body
goes into insulin resistance, you gain weight if you have
h uh, poor sleep, you have a weakened immune system.
(06:51):
You know, you mentioned the brain. You know, our cognizance
can suffer. Our mental health obviously can can suffer. So yes,
sleep is really it's really significant, and it's really really important.
If you're going to do one thing for your health,
focusing on sleep is a great place to start. So okay, Lise,
when you're talking to your patients about sound of sleep strategies,
(07:16):
what are some of your favorites that may apply to many,
if not most, of your patients.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Okay, So first, I would actually counsel patients not to
rely on certain medications for especially the benzodiazepines. These are
things which include drugs like adavan that's commonly recommended for sleep.
That's lurazepam, or alprazolam which is xanax, or that's another
(07:48):
common one, estezolam which is pro sum like. These are
all things that people are recommended or prescribed to help
them sleep, and they are sedatives, but they're very addictive,
and they're very hard to stop taking. Once you start,
it's very very difficult to get off those. People become
dependent on them. And interestingly, the more often people use
(08:14):
these will call them hypnotics. That's another way that this
category of drugs is referred to. The more often that
people take hypnotics, the higher their risk of death, and
specifically their higher the risk of death from things like cancer.
So they actually adversely affect our health, which is peculiar.
(08:36):
You would think, why would something that increases sleep actually
decrease our longevity? And in fact, it's thought that the
reason for that is that these hypnotics don't support a
healthy sleep cycle. So they cause sort of a certain
ability to fall asleep and go into maybe shallower forms
of sleep, but not cycle into rim and to deep sleep.
(09:00):
Been up and out, and that because we're not actually
cycling through as we sleep on these hypnotics, we're not
getting the benefits of sleep. So that's one of the
first things that I councel my patients about. And I
know that was probably not what you were looking for,
but you know, I'm going to give you a shot
at this. What do you think that is important?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I actually really am glad that you brought that up,
because I was shocked when I read the research about
these medications and the fact that they increase cancer and
that they decrease longevity. And it is in fact because
of the quality of sleep. So when we're looking at
sleep strategies, we want to look at not just quantity
(09:40):
the number of hours, but also quality. So I'm very
happy that you brought that up as a memor. Okay,
so I am going to talk about magnesium and L fianine.
So I personally have noticed over the years that there's
a big difference when I take four hundred milligrams of
magnesium for sleep at night and then I combine it
with two hundred to three hundred milligrams of lthnin. And
here's why let's start with magnesium. Magnesium is so critical.
(10:05):
It's involved in more than three hundred different enzyme systems
in the body, which impact such a diverse variety of
chemical reactions that influence our health on many levels, including sleep.
So specific to sleep, magnesium does help with not only
the quantity but the quality of our sleep. But what
I like about magnesium the most is that it helps
(10:29):
with all of these other issues you know, brain function,
mental health, and just a lot more. So you're really
getting a big bang for your book with magnesium. And
the reason I have added elthianine in the past, I
specifically use some theanine because that's the brand that's been
used in a lot of the studies, is because my
(10:49):
sleep issues have often been related to anxiety, and the
research is clear that el faianine helps ease anxiety. But
elthianine and sleep is not just about anxiety. Elthianine has
many mechanisms of action when it comes to sleep. You know,
it slows our brain activity, It increases relaxation, newer transmitters
(11:12):
like BABA, it increases melatonin levels, which is important in
which we've discussed. And interestingly, new research is showing that
the combination of magnesium and elthianine is really helpful. And
there was a study that was done in twenty twenty
two showing that magnesium, when it's combined with el theanine,
(11:37):
it actually enhances the effectiveness of the althianine, specifically when
it comes to sleep. So I feel like magnesium and
el theanine are so beneficial on so many levels that
adding it to your regimen before you go to bed
at night is pretty powerful and it's going to benefit
(11:58):
your health in a lot of different ways, not just
helping you get it sold sleep.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Love it, and I love that you mentioned the combination
of these two things because I think that this is important.
In fact, I was just having a conversation with somebody
who is an avid Instagram listener watcher, and a lot
of times people, you know, whether they have expertise or not,
will tout a particular thing and if you look up
(12:23):
the if you just look up a magnesium, you look
at a monograph if you will of magnesium, you'll see
all sorts of benefits. And so these Instagram people will
talk about all these benefits and then people will listen
and think, Okay, I need to take magnesium. But that's
sort of out of context because usually these compounds work
best in combination with other things. That's particularly true of
(12:46):
vitamins and minerals. They almost always work in concert with
other vitamins and minerals. So you're not going to get
the full benefit if you just take one thing. So
that's one aspect. The other is that sometimes there are
these synergisms between for example, althenian and magnesium, where they
really work in concert much more effectively. So in reality,
(13:06):
as much as you can say magnesium is associated with
better sleep, which is true, it's really going to be
more effective if you combine it with something like Althenians.
I'm really happy you talked about both of them.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Good. What about you? Do you have another strategy?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, so I'm going to talk about one thing and
just to contradict myself. No, actually, I'm going to context
it to be truthful. I want to talk about botanicals
because I think there are some plants that have really
a beautiful way of interacting with our nervous system to
improve sleep without any habituation effects, without any addictive qualities,
(13:47):
without any hangover or side effects. And again, there are
many botanical formulas on the market that combine of these
herbs together, and those synergistic formulas can be magical. So
you might see an herbal formula that has things like
passion flower camea mile scutl area or American skull cap,
(14:12):
California poppy, Ashwagandha cavacava. So look for these things because
even though these formulas necessarily have less of each one,
that synergism that happens we sometimes call this the entourage effect,
where there's like this this combination of things that create
a greater effect than any one little component or one herb,
(14:34):
and these combination products can be quite remarkable. Having said that,
one I would like to highlight for a moment is covacava. So,
cavacava is part of the pepper family, and it comes
from the Polynesian islands the South Pacific. It's used there
ceremonially as a way to encourage people to develop a
(14:59):
relax socialization with one another. And there's a whole ceremonial
way in which kava is prepared, which involves how it's
harvested very respectfully to the kava plant. It's you use
the roots, so the way it's dug up is very ceremonial.
The cleaning process is very ceremonial. And then it's a
(15:19):
very traditional form is the kava root is sort of chewed.
Then the action, the interaction of the kava and the
saliva activates the kava to some extent, and then people
spit into this communal bowl and then the next person
spits in. You get this kind of communal kava that's
then used. That's an example of sort of a traditional
ceremonial use. And I just want to say that because
(15:41):
a lot of our modern used plants actually do have
this rich and important historical tradition. The modern use or
the Western I should say, use of kava is in
fact as a sedative. But kava is unique, so it
has the ability to create a feeling of calmness. It's
very good to reducing zeniety, and it's also a muscle relaxant.
(16:03):
So a lot of people who hold their tension, their
anxiety in their muscles, they get tight neck, tight shoulders
when they're anxious. Cova is kind of perfect for them,
and it typically and it can be used in a
very dose sensitive way. So a smaller dose of kava
is more anxiolytic or anxiety reducing, a slightly larger dose
(16:26):
within therapeutic range is more sedative. But it affects the
limbic system, so it actually not only creates sedation, but
it creates a sense of almost not euphoria, but well being.
So it improves people's mood. And I think a lot
of times when people don't sleep well, they just start
(16:47):
to feel lousy about life. And this is a very
useful plant to address that despondency and that tendency to
be kind of withdrawn from their own life. Cove can
re store an engagement in living at the same time
having this very gentle but very noticeable sedative effect, anxiolytic effect.
(17:11):
There's a little bit of concern about kava being toxic
to the liver, but in fact, if you're getting your
kava from a reputable company, company that's been around for
many decades and sells products and has sold products for
a long time, they're going to be very careful about
their cova and how they prepare it. Good quality kava
that's prepared appropriately and then dost appropriately is quite safe
(17:35):
and is really not a concern. And yeah, and you'll
see oftentimes covas combined with Valerian, those two together are
particularly potent. They kind of address the anxiety and the
sleep together in a really nice way. So that's one
of my favorite plants. Wow, that's really cool. You know,
cava has not been on my radar. I have not
(17:56):
written about kava in years. I'm really glad that you
brought kava up. And I would agree about the botanicals
and the botanical combinations. There are just some really great
formulations out there, so very good, very good. Yeah, and
just when one quick comment on that, because some people
(18:17):
listening might be, you know, still thinking about but it's
supposed to be toxic. And just to say one other
thing on that, the research on the reported cases on
kava toxicity really only occurred when people were using excessive
doses or they were also doing something else that was
very livertoxic, drinking excessive amounts of alcohol or taking a
(18:41):
head drug damaging medication. But when cova is used in
the therapeutic dosage range, which is typically recommended on the
bottle that you're using or by your healthcare practitioner who's
trained in this, there's really no reported or known safety concerns.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, good, thank you for clarifying that. Well, I would
like to talk about melatonin, but I want to talk
about melatonin from a little different perspective. So melatonin is
perhaps one of the most well known nutrients for sleep,
wouldn't you agree, Lees, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So melatonin I have had a paradoxical effect. About twenty
percent of the population can have a paradoxical effect when
taking melatonin, which means that the melatonin actually makes you jittery,
and it doesn't help you fall asleep. So for years
(19:41):
I avoided melatonin because of that paradoxical effect. What I
have found out lately, like over the last two years,
is that a very small dose of melatonin is actually
actually does in fact work for me. So Lise, I
would I would love to have your thoughts on this
(20:02):
and if you think that I'm just super unique, or
if this is something that you've noticed where dosing becomes
significant when it comes to melotonin, and maybe you could
even say a few words about high dose melatonin for
cancer Survivors's I've weaved three questions into one. Okay, I
(20:27):
I think I just remember too actually, but look so
low dose melotony, Yes, some people are sensitive to higher doses,
and low doses are can be quite effective for some people. Also,
some people don't do well with a regular melatonin, but
when they use a time release melatonin, they actually experience.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Really good quality sleep. So that's another way to sort
of approach melatonin. Sometimes, uh, melatonin from a play to
derive sources more effective and more tolerable than other melotone
in which a little dirty little secret in the market
is that the vast majority of melatonin that sold as
(21:12):
a dietary supplement is actually synthesized. It's sort of a
molecule that was originally found in natural products and then
it's manufactured essentially, so it's relatively rare to find true
naturally derived melatonin. There is a company that only and
exclusively sells plant drive melatonin. There's some products out there
(21:36):
that are full of concentrated cherry juice, which is somewhat
higher melotone, still small dose, but you would get some
natural melotone in that way, So that's another way to
improve the toleration. And then, of course large doses, relatively
large which in oncology, most people with cancer are recommended.
(21:56):
If they're seeing an integrative practitioner, they're probably going to
be recommended to take melatonin at some point in a
dose of twenty milligrams, which is much higher than what
is required for sleep. But the reason for that dose
is that there have been over four hundred clinical trials
on that dose of melatonin in the oncology setting, and
(22:17):
the melatonin is associated with improved survival, reduce risk of recurrence,
and better toleration of chemotherapy and radiation in almost all
cancer types so it's a very useful adjunct, and it
has this really great side effect, which is it helps
(22:37):
people have a good night's sleep at twenty just as
if they were taking one, three, five, whatever. So unless
you have a paradoxical reaction, that's a very legitimate dose
in the context of oncology.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right. I'm so glad that you brought that up, because that,
I mean similar to magnesium. I think that when we
think of melatonin, we think of, oh, well, it helps
us sleep, and that's it. But melatona is a very
powerful molecule, and you've just described it's anti cancer effect.
You know, it has a lot of other health benefits.
So incorporating it into a sleep routine, either at a
(23:16):
higher dose if you're a cancer survivor, or at a
very low dose if you're like me and you can't
tolerate a high dose, it's very effective nutrient.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, one hundred percent, I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Okay, So do you have another strategy before we wrap
this sleep show up?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Well, I'm kind of torn, to be honest, because I
want to talk about too, So I'll mention one and
then I'll do a little bit of a deeper dive
into the second. I want to mention mindfulness because although
I think it's something we you and I both talk
a lot about. We've had shows on mindfulness in various forms.
It's very important to obtaining good quality sleep when people
(23:59):
have in mindfulness practice, and it doesn't even have to
be at bedtime. Just having a regular practice of gaining
presence and focus and calm attentive mind can help the
neurological workings of the brain in such a way that
it's easier to fall asleep and stay asleep. So I
(24:19):
would just encourage people to develop a mindfulness practice. And
the one I want to do spend a fraction of
a bit more time on is ashwaganda. This is another
herb that's very popular right now and deservedly so. It
comes from the Arivatic tradition, and there's certain you know, constitutions,
(24:40):
if you will, in Ariveda that are more likely to
benefit from ashwaganda than others. So I'm going to put
that aside for a moment. I just want to give
that a shout out. But I'm not an aerobatic trained practitioner,
so that being said. In Western medicine, we use asha ganda.
The botanical name is whythenia somniff for us some niferas
(25:00):
its second name gives you a clue. It's soomni is
the Latin derivative for sleep, and it really has a
very sedative effect. But it's also unique because it's in
the category of plants we call adaptogens, and adaptogens are
plants that help to mitigate or reset the stress response.
So in the face of stress, if you're taking an adaptagen,
(25:22):
you're less likely to get stuck in the turned on
position response to stress. So your body is more likely
under the influence of an adaptogen to respond to stressors,
but then to quiet itself down and to not get
stuck in this hyper cortosolemic state, which is what people
get stuck in when they're in chronic stress. Now, if
(25:44):
you're in hyperchortosolemic state, that means you have too much
cortosol circulating. So that's going to very much disrupt your
circadian rhythm, which is what I talked about at the beginning,
which is the primary kind of input into the sleep cycle,
melatonein cortisol during the day. If you have a stuck
on stress response system too much cortisol, it's hard for
(26:05):
your body to get enough melatonin secrete it at the
right time at night to get you to sleep. So
adaptogen herbs are really helpful for sleep. And Ashwa gun
is nice because it has this additional sedative effect. So
it's unique in adaptogens in that it can be dosed
at bedtime or in the evening. It'll still help you
(26:26):
reset that stress response system, but you'll also get the
added sedative benefit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I mean, we've done entire shows on adaptogens. I'm so
glad that you brought this one up. And there's kind
of a theme here least, because the strategies that we've
mentioned today, you get a lot of bang for your buck,
you know, like with Ashra Ganda that you're just mentioning,
you know, to help you cope with stress, help you sleep,
help you with a lot of different things, and what
(26:54):
we were talking about with magnesium and melotonin. And I
think that that's the beauty of natural medicine. That's the
beauty of these botanicals and these nutrients. They actually benefit
health on many different levels. So yeah, any final words
before you thank our sponsors again.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Lise, Well, I just love that we brought this up.
I think this should be kind of an annual conversation
for us because there's always new insights and it is
such a problem for folks. So I appreciate you bringing
this to our attention, and I also appreciate our sponsors.
Once again, we thank pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep formula, Cetria glutathione,
(27:36):
the superior glutathione to support liver and immune health, cognizanceticoline
to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor Ohira's
award winning shelf stable probiotic. And thank you Carolyn for
your great insights tonight. Always a pleasure to talk with you,
(27:57):
absolutely and thank you as well. So this has been
a great show. Okay everyone, may you experience joy, laughter, love,
and of course sound asleep.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's time to thrive. Everyone, have a great night.
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