April 2, 2024 • 29 mins
On this show, Karolyn talks with integrative oncologist Mary Hardy, MD, about innovative ways to enhance the immune system. She'll discuss two ingredients in particular that have been researched extensively and shown to enhance immunity and mitochondrial function. Dr. Hardy is the former medical director of the UCLA Center for Integrative Oncology and is considered a leading expert on integrative cancer treatment and botanical medicine.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Sister, Hello,everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive
(00:42):
Live. I'm Carolyn Gazella and Ico host the show with my good friend
doctor LESE. Olschuler. Today we'regoing to be talking about ways to boost
your immune system, which is avery important subject. But first I'd like
to thank our sponsors, beginning withAmerican Biosciences, makers of Metatrol fermented wheat
germ extract for enhanced mitochondrial function andEmpower AHCC to supercharge your immune system.
(01:07):
For free samples, research and anexclusive Thrive discount, go to Theharmonycompany dot
com forward slash Thrive. That's theHarmony coompany dot com Forward slash Thrive.
Also Ammuse a unique, patented postbiotic that gives your immune system a key
advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient inmany immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for
ammuse on the label or go toImmusehealth dot com for more information and cognizance
(01:34):
citicoline, which is nature's way ofkeeping the brain's energy producing centers firing on
all cylinders. If you're looking fora way to enhance your brain function,
including memory, focus, and attention, look for Cognizant on the label or
go to Cognizan dot com for moreinformation. Prothriver's Brain is a product that
contains Cognizant as well as other brainsupporting nutrients and nerves. You can find
Prothriver's Brain online at Pureformulas dot comand finally dot com. Here is Probiotics.
(02:00):
It's a best selling probiotic for morethan thirty years and it contains twelve
probiotic strains that are shelf stable sono refrigeration is required Because of a unique
three year fermentation process, It's avery effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor
Ohira probiotics dot com. So withme today is doctor Mary Hardy, who
(02:21):
is a leading integrative oncologist and botanicalexpert. She is also the former medical
director of the UCLA Center for IntegrativeOncology, which is where I met her.
Doctor Hardy, Welcome back to theshow. Hey there, how are
you, Carolyn? I'm doing great. I'm happy to be with you today,
very happy to be with you,guys. I know, I know
this is this is such a pleasurefor me because it's been a while since
(02:44):
you and I have chatted, Sothis is great, it's super wild.
I'm very glad to have a chanceto share my knowledge with this research because
I think it's it's about as closeto a free lunch as you get any
place in the universe. Well,great, Well, I want you to
start just with something very basic.Okay, why is this topic enhancing immunity
(03:07):
so important? Well, I thinkthere's a couple of reasons. The first
is that we're getting all kinds ofchallenges to our immune system that we didn't
really know about or have much ofa beat on before. So, for
example, just looking at the pandemicthat kind of burst on the world like
a giant bomb. And one ofthe ways to sort of besides doing all
(03:32):
the conventional medical things that were appropriatein the face of that, like you
know, taking your vaccines when theybecame available, et cetera, was these
non specific treatments that would boost yourimmune system and boost your resistance to infection.
So that's one thing resistance to infection. The second major place that enhancing
(03:54):
immune function has become very important recentlyis in resistance to cancer. We know
that in some ways immune surveillance hasto fail for cancer to take hold,
and so I think that people havethe sense that if they could just make
their immune system function better, thatthey would be more resistant to cancer.
(04:16):
And so those two areas, resistanceto infection resistance to cancer are perhaps the
two biggest places that I've seen interestin the in these in getting your immune
system up to speed in the lastlet's say five years or so. Yeah,
yeah, very critical points, youknow. And I also want to
(04:39):
touch on mitochondrial function. The gablesare just a brief overview on how mitochondrial
function is related to the immune systemand why optimal mitochondrial function is also important.
The mitochondria have When you were ingrammar school or junior middle school,
whatever whichever place you learned about this, you learned that the mitochondria or the
(04:59):
power house of the cell, andthey produce the energy that the cell used
to survive. And in a normalmammalian cell, we use oxygen to create
that fuel and it goes back andforth inside the mitochondria, changing electrons back
and forth between specialized cells, specializedmolecules, and we end up with something
(05:24):
called ATP, which is the powerthat the cell burns. This is in
marked difference to what happens with cancercells because they can't use oxygen to make
energy, so they are very inefficientwith this. So the mitochondria control the
production of energy in an efficient waythe proper use of oxygen. But the
(05:46):
mitochondria also are a control center forthe cell in lots of other ways.
They keep track of the cell andwhen and how the cell becomes damaged,
let's say, either by an invasionor by an infection, or by toxic
damage, or by genetic damage,development into an abnormal cell, cancer cell,
(06:11):
and the mitochondria the place that keeptrack of that and when that process
becomes irreversible, the mitochondria the partof the body that says to the rest,
to the cell, you have todie now you're irreparably damaged, and
so it's called apoptosis programmed cell death. So that's one way that the mitochondria
(06:34):
really functioned with respect to the immunesystem, is that they when damage has
become too great, the immune systemhasn't protected the cell, then the cell
can have a projected cell death,So I think that's the one of the
major ways. And then also afunctioning immune system depends on the proper transfer
(06:59):
of innate immunity. The immunity thatcomes that just comes non specifically. You
know, the cell has it ischallenged and it responds in non specific ways.
But that immunity is then transferred fromthings like natural killer cells, macrofages
cells, it in gulf and killbacteria non specifically. The body then makes
(07:23):
anigens. Uh, it takes theanigens and makes antibodies so that it can
remember this is acquired immunity, rememberedimmunity, and the mitochondria has a point
a place in it in keeping trackof that as well. So yeah,
that's perfect, and it seems likesupporting both when a chondria function and immune
function is kind of the one twopunch, ye keeping us healthy hand in
(07:46):
glove, hand and glove, youneed both absolutely right, exactly, And
the and the mitochondria, you know, they're involved in all kinds of cell
signaling, and there really are theorganelle in the cell that that that's supervises
how well the cell is doing,how balanced the cell is so when your
mitochondria out of whack or they've beendisabled by for example, cancer or some
(08:09):
metabolic poisons, then you know thatcell is going to die. That's just
not healthy. So right, yeah, and you know there are there are
two ingredients that I want to talkabout as it relates to immune function and
mitochondrial function, and I'm just goingto jump right in first. The first
ingredient is fermented wheat germ extract.I've been reading about fermented wheat erm extract
(08:33):
for a lot of years, Sotell our listeners what is fermented wheat term
extract? How does it work?Okay? It it was a almost a
serendipitous discovery, but it started outfrom this this understanding that the cancer cells
metabolize differently. That's called the Warburgeffect. That the cancer cell. As
(08:56):
a cancer cell develops, it startsto lose lose a lot of it's a
lot of it's natural uh or moreadvanced tendencies. So more advanced breast cancer
becomes estrogen in, estrogen incensor,estrogen negative. So one of the first
things that a cancer cell loses isthis ability to metabolize oxygen and create fuel.
(09:20):
So so the ferment to reach yournextect was thought to be a compound
that would block the cancer cells abilityto pick up and use sugar, and
in fact it does, and itmakes the because the cancer cell has to
pick up lots and lots of sugarsince it's ineffissient at making energy. So
(09:41):
by blocking part of all of thatsugar uptake, it cripples the cell and
and it makes its metabolism, whichis primitive, function less well, and
then hopefully the cell dies, thecancer dize, the patient survives. Because
what's really key here, back tomy comment about the free lunch, this
is very interesting because it doesn't affectnormal cells. Since normal cells have a
(10:05):
normal ability to pick up oxygen anduse oxygen, they don't need a lot
of sugar to make a lot ofenergy, and therefore they're not affected by
fermented REACHERM extract. And that's beenThat's one of the ways in which it's
particularly useful because it doesn't have abad side effect profile. You know,
chemotherapy, although useful, is harshusually and sometimes the discrimination between the normal
(10:31):
cell and the abnormal cell isn't thatacute, isn't that well done, so
that the normal cells get damaged alongwith the cancer cells. We just hope
that the cancer cells get damaged alot more and die before the damage to
the person is irreversible, like neuropathyor something like that. So that's so
(10:52):
it blocks the cancer's ability to pickup sugar. It has other enzymes that
affect the cancer's ability to grow andto differentiate, not differentiate, but grow
in an unrestrained way. Because normallycells when they can butt up against each
other, like when you're sitting ina crowded airplane and your elbows going to
the person on either side of you. You know, when when cells do
(11:15):
that, they stop growing because they'vefound out the limits. But cancer cells
don't have loss that ability. Theyjust grow over over everything and the again,
a functioning mitochondria helps to restore thatfunction so that the cells regain the
ability to to feel, to feeleach other's edges, as it were.
(11:37):
The other thing that's kind of coolabout about this fermented retro extract is it
helps it helps defeat this the cancer'sability to hide. So the cancer puts
up a false flag. It putsup some some chemicals, some proteins on
the outside of the cell that tellthat tell the that tell the survey that
(11:58):
tell the surveillance cell you know thatwe're normal. You know we're not the
George you're looking for. And soone thing that fermented wheat germ does is
take away that that shielding, andso that means surveillance cells, like natural
killer cells macropages, can find theabnormal cells and ingest them and kill them
basically. So there's a several differentways that this process works, and these
(12:22):
various mechanisms of action build up oneach other like nice layers, so you
get multiple different ways to get thesame activity. Yeah, that's interesting,
And I know that you're a researcheras well as being a clinician. So
are there human studies demonstrating these effectsthat you just described. Yes, yes,
and thank you for asking me,Because we have a lot of natural
(12:46):
substances that we think are effective andwe are fairly sure or safe, but
we don't have evidence about safety.If so, for fermented wheat dterm extract
as well as HCC, we haveevidence in humans that these substances work in
the ways that I've described to you. So there have been a number of
(13:07):
studies in a number of different conditionshad net cancer, melanomas, before the
new drugs from melanoma. Pretty much, melanoma was a very challenging diagnosis,
and these materials given for a yearafter diagnosis in the first year of treatment,
along with the best conventional therapy,provided a much better outcome than patients
(13:33):
who didn't have this therapy. Sothat was melanoma and colon cancer in particular
were ones that showed that breast canceras well, they've also been helpful in
reducing some of the side effect profileshad net cancer for sure, and also
in children who had a variety ofsolid tumors, they didn't get their white
(13:54):
cells didn't get pushed down as far, so they didn't get the very very
dangerous fevers. Again, back tothe immune system. When you when you're
white celles are suppressed, your immunesystem is suppressed. You can't fight off
things that would normally be not verychallenging or might be a mild cold,
could develop into a life threatening infection. And the fermented reachrim extract was protective
(14:16):
for the children, so they didnot get these serious nutropenic fevers and didn't
require rehospitalization or potentially a more adverseoutcome than that. So again, same
kind of thing A couple of differentways it can be applied. Yeah,
that's great. So the second ingredientI want to discuss is called a h
(14:37):
c C. What is a HCCand how does that work? Okay,
this is an extract of one ofmy favorite natural substances, medicinal mushrooms.
This is particularly an extract of shitake. You've heard about this before then.
Toydes is the species name, andmushrooms again are relatively gentle substances. They
(15:05):
don't have a lot of side effects. They provide, in this case a
more general stimulant to the immune system. It helps white cells that are kind
of hanging around waiting for a job. It kicks them off the walls where
they're hanging around the walls of theblood vessels usually and gets them activated to
go to an area of infection orin this case abnormal tumor cells. And
(15:30):
these again have been shown to behelpful in humans as well and to be
non toxic. So it's another oneof those close to a free lunch that
you get the benefit without a bigside effect profile. And again I think
HGC is another nice mushroom product.It's well controlled, it's grown and prepared
(15:50):
in a very organized way, sothat you know that what you're getting is
a very dependable, reliable, repeatabledietary supplement, so that when you get
an effect, you get it againand again every time you use it.
So I think that again has asimilar kind of benefit. Yeah, yeah,
(16:11):
and I know you and I knowthat you would not be so excited
about an ingredient if it didn't havethe solid research. So, just like
for mental extract, are there humanstudies with AC, Yeah, there have
been as well, and they've beenused. It's been used again in studies,
for example, with infections as wellas cancer studies. In addition and
(16:36):
again showing this showing this same UHgeneralized stimulant effect, which again is nice
because you don't always need this rememberedimmunity. You can also use the basic
effects of white cells activated mocrifrages etcetera. Going into an area picking up
all the broken down products of adestroyed cell, or helping to UH trigger
(17:03):
apoptosis program cell death or to actuallyattack invaving molecules, viruses, bacteria,
et cetera and neutralize those. Soyeah, there have been human studies as
well for AGEC and the safety again, the safety profile of both of these
substances is very robust, and that, especially for me, is important because
(17:27):
people who are either in the middleof treatment for cancer and or people who
are under you know, have aserious uh bronchitis, pneumonia, et cetera.
They're not and they're not their strongest, and you don't want to give
them something that's so harsh to usethat it it's it further depletes their energy.
(17:49):
But rather something that is non toxic, works with natural natural processes in
the body, amplifies those and thendoes and have a toxic effect on normal
self. So those are the reasonswhy I think these products, both of
them are particularly particularly exciting for me. Yeah, it's such a such a
(18:11):
great point. Now it occurs tome after hearing you talk about both of
these ingredients, I'm curious if theywork synergistically, does it make any sense
to combine them? And when wouldyou use the combination? Yeah, you
you absolutely asked the best questions,because I think you want when when things
have a similar mechanism of action,you don't want to pile them up on
(18:34):
top of each other, because yeah, you'd like to have one plus one
equal too, that's additive, Butone plus one equals four. That's synergistic.
They that they tend to vault offof each other, and if the
mechanism of action is too similar,then they may not give you and anything
additional in addition to what the onesubstance by itself will. These actually have
(18:56):
different mechanisms of action general supportive immunityversus this highly specific effects through the Warburg
effect, you know, attacking cancer, picking up sugar through the mitochondril effect.
So yes, in fact, Ithink there is the potential to add
these two together. The way Imake that decision is in part how acute
(19:23):
my particular patient's issue is. Soif it's somebody who, for example,
has this who maybe I wasn't givingfermented term too, and they get this
neutropenic fever, then I might startthem on the fermented re term that takes
a little while to act, butthe AHCC will help de marginalizing white cells
(19:44):
and getting the non specific immune systemrevved up to start to attack whatever is
causing the fever. So that's oneway in which you could combine these two
together. And likewise, the slower'reacting more specific metatrol would benefit from acute
births of the use of the medicinalmushroom again as as needed for us to
(20:10):
help support the activities of metatrol througha different mechanism. And now what about
a person who has through with cancertreatment and they're trying to reduce the risk
of a recurrence. Yeah, that'sa great question too. I mean,
honestly, you just asked the bestquestions, thank you. So I think
(20:32):
the way I'm going to answer thatquestion, I'm gonna go back to the
literature, and I'm going to lookat the literature. For example, the
the the literature looking at the melanomapatients and some of the other human clinical
trials. What was very interesting tome was the patients were told to use
the metatrol for the first year oftreatment, and then they didn't continue taking
(20:53):
it, and yet the effect waslasted over many years. So I would
say what I've often done to patientseither who have finished their treatment or who
don't have an adjunctive treatment like,for example, estragen positive breast cancer patients
can take to maximin a remedex aromataseinhibitors some other different medicine to modify their
(21:15):
body to make them more cancer resistant. But for example, if you have
a triple negative cancer, then youdon't have an adjunctive treatment that's already been
developed. So in that case,that's a perfect patient for me to take
this metatrol for the year of treatmentand then the year after treatment. I
think that's very logical, very simple, and we have suggestions from a literature
(21:41):
that that will provide you with benefitthat could potentially last a long time after
treatment is concluded. So that's myadvice about that that that year, that
first year after treatment is probably criticalto reduce your risk of recurrence. Yeah,
that makes so much sense to me, and I love the fact that
(22:02):
it does have a lasting effect.And I'm glad that you brought up triple
negative because my sister is a triplenegative cancer survivor. And yeah, and
you're absolutely correct. To have accessto this type of product for triple negative
is incredible, right because you're basicallytold bye bye, good luck, see
you if and when you recur.But for most patients that's a horrible place
(22:27):
to be. They really want todo something to help themselves, and unfortunately
the conventional oncologists in large part don'tunderstand about these natural therapies. There are
a group of oncologists that have beeneducating themselves and getting actively involved, but
still the majority of the's you're goingto have to teach your doctor about this
(22:48):
to allow them to feel comfortable withyour using it. But honestly, it's
such a low risk. I don'tsee why they would object. Yeah,
your sister, this would be awonderful thing to do. To take this
for a year and at least andthen see what happens. I also don't
like to tell people to take somethingforever and ever, although you know,
(23:08):
if you did, If you did, sorry, that's okay. If you
did, that's probably someone calling meabout this right now. If you did
decide to take this for a longerperiod of time, the safety profile is
really sufficient that it would be itcould be a very good thing for you
(23:32):
to go ahead, and it won'tbe harmful for you to take this for
a longer period of time, rightright. And I do have to say,
my sister is doing phenomenal. She'samazing. Yeah, a long term
survivor. Yeah, so that's that'sgreat news. Long maybe I continue,
yeah, exactly. So I wouldlike to talk a little bit about other
(23:52):
ways to enhandsome unity and support mitochondrialfunction. So what are your goats like
if you have to focus in ona few things in addition to supporting immune
immediate Yeah, with fermented HHCC.What's your recommendation for other ways that we
(24:14):
can support our immune system. Oneof the first thing I always ask patients
to do, whether they're infectious diseasepatients or cancer patients, is to know
their vitamin D level, because weknow that an adequate vitamin D level is
necessary to allow the immune system tofunction optimally. And the kind of things
I'm going to talk about now arekind of bars to entry, Like if
(24:37):
your vitamin D level is low,if your zinc is low, if your
micronutrients are poor, then your immunesystem is not going to be functioning optimally.
So vitamin D is the first thing. Your level I like to have
in around fifteen nanograms per m mail. That's a that's a level that's going
to be measured in your in yourblood. And if you're listening from other
(25:02):
countries beside the United States, youmight you might have a different level of
measurement, a different a different adifferent UH measurement standard, So you should
just double check in it. Youshould be not just barely adequate, but
robustly adequate, but not too highbecause there is evidence that at very high
levels there may be a detrimental effectfrom too much vitamin D. So it's
(25:23):
the goldilocks right in the middle,a good, nice, robust level.
That's the first thing. Then Ilike to make sure people's micro micronutrients,
which are minerals like zinc and amagnesium and stuff like that, are normal
because there are parts of many,many different enzyme systems, so they may
be part of the enzyme systems thatare used to attack and and create vacuals
(25:48):
and then dissolve the abnormal bacteria orstuff like that that get ingested. That's
one kind of a thing I liketo see. I also think it's important
that you're diet is adequate. Uhwe've found out from the pandemic that clearly
we've talked about this a lot.Eating a diet that's varied fruits and vegetables,
(26:10):
not too low and refined car Imean, not too high and refined
carbohydrates, but also adequate amounts ofhigh quality protein which can be either plant
or animal sourced, allows again yourimmune function optimally. If you know you
have an active something from the outsidethat's that's delimiting your immune system, like
(26:33):
a toxic exposure. Then you wantto stop that toxic exposure, probably most
easily by eating organic food and thendo some simple detox routines like eating a
fiber so that your digestive system workswell and binds toxins in the gut and
eliminates them. Drink lots of fluidso your kidney's flesh out. Stuff like
(26:55):
that. Yeah, that's that's perfect. We're all great advice. I also
want to remind our listeners that youcan get free samples and more information about
the two ingredients we profiled on tonight'sshow by going to the harmonycompany dot com
forward slash thrive. So if thishas peaked your curiosity and you want more
information, just go to the Harmonycoompany dot com forward slash thrive. All
(27:21):
right, doctor Hardy, we haveabout a minute left, any parting final
words for our listeners. When itcomes to enhancing and supercharging your immune system,
you are powerful, you are nothelpless. There are things you can
do to help yourself. And aswe're developing the sense that the lonely cell
is the cancer cell, so embedyourself in a healthy healing community. Eat
(27:44):
well, sleep well, enjoy theworld you're in, spend time in nature,
and choose supplements to help to helpenhance your native immunity. That's excellent,
excellent advice, and what a greatway to end. Thank you so
much, doctor Hardy for joining me. It's so great to be with you,
Carolyn, and I really look forwardto doing this again with you sometime
(28:07):
soon. Absolutely. Well, thatwraps up this episode of five to Thrive
Live once again. I'd like tothank our sponsors, American Biosciences, makers
of Metrogol and Empower products that containwe term extract and a HCC to supercharge
your immune system. Also amuse postbiotic to give your immune system that extra
boost, Cognizan citicolon to help enhancememory, focus and attention, and doctor
(28:30):
Ohira's award winning shelf stable probiotic.Well, this has been great. May
you experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone, have
a great night.
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Sister, Hello,everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive
(00:42):
Live. I'm Carolyn Gazella and Ico host the show with my good friend
doctor LESE. Olschuler. Today we'regoing to be talking about ways to boost
your immune system, which is avery important subject. But first I'd like
to thank our sponsors, beginning withAmerican Biosciences, makers of Metatrol fermented wheat
germ extract for enhanced mitochondrial function andEmpower AHCC to supercharge your immune system.
(01:07):
For free samples, research and anexclusive Thrive discount, go to Theharmonycompany dot
com forward slash Thrive. That's theHarmony coompany dot com Forward slash Thrive.
Also Ammuse a unique, patented postbiotic that gives your immune system a key
advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient inmany immune supporting dietary supplements. Look for
ammuse on the label or go toImmusehealth dot com for more information and cognizance
(01:34):
citicoline, which is nature's way ofkeeping the brain's energy producing centers firing on
all cylinders. If you're looking fora way to enhance your brain function,
including memory, focus, and attention, look for Cognizant on the label or
go to Cognizan dot com for moreinformation. Prothriver's Brain is a product that
contains Cognizant as well as other brainsupporting nutrients and nerves. You can find
Prothriver's Brain online at Pureformulas dot comand finally dot com. Here is Probiotics.
(02:00):
It's a best selling probiotic for morethan thirty years and it contains twelve
probiotic strains that are shelf stable sono refrigeration is required Because of a unique
three year fermentation process, It's avery effective probiotic. Learn more at doctor
Ohira probiotics dot com. So withme today is doctor Mary Hardy, who
(02:21):
is a leading integrative oncologist and botanicalexpert. She is also the former medical
director of the UCLA Center for IntegrativeOncology, which is where I met her.
Doctor Hardy, Welcome back to theshow. Hey there, how are
you, Carolyn? I'm doing great. I'm happy to be with you today,
very happy to be with you,guys. I know, I know
this is this is such a pleasurefor me because it's been a while since
(02:44):
you and I have chatted, Sothis is great, it's super wild.
I'm very glad to have a chanceto share my knowledge with this research because
I think it's it's about as closeto a free lunch as you get any
place in the universe. Well,great, Well, I want you to
start just with something very basic.Okay, why is this topic enhancing immunity
(03:07):
so important? Well, I thinkthere's a couple of reasons. The first
is that we're getting all kinds ofchallenges to our immune system that we didn't
really know about or have much ofa beat on before. So, for
example, just looking at the pandemicthat kind of burst on the world like
a giant bomb. And one ofthe ways to sort of besides doing all
(03:32):
the conventional medical things that were appropriatein the face of that, like you
know, taking your vaccines when theybecame available, et cetera, was these
non specific treatments that would boost yourimmune system and boost your resistance to infection.
So that's one thing resistance to infection. The second major place that enhancing
(03:54):
immune function has become very important recentlyis in resistance to cancer. We know
that in some ways immune surveillance hasto fail for cancer to take hold,
and so I think that people havethe sense that if they could just make
their immune system function better, thatthey would be more resistant to cancer.
(04:16):
And so those two areas, resistanceto infection resistance to cancer are perhaps the
two biggest places that I've seen interestin the in these in getting your immune
system up to speed in the lastlet's say five years or so. Yeah,
yeah, very critical points, youknow. And I also want to
(04:39):
touch on mitochondrial function. The gablesare just a brief overview on how mitochondrial
function is related to the immune systemand why optimal mitochondrial function is also important.
The mitochondria have When you were ingrammar school or junior middle school,
whatever whichever place you learned about this, you learned that the mitochondria or the
(04:59):
power house of the cell, andthey produce the energy that the cell used
to survive. And in a normalmammalian cell, we use oxygen to create
that fuel and it goes back andforth inside the mitochondria, changing electrons back
and forth between specialized cells, specializedmolecules, and we end up with something
(05:24):
called ATP, which is the powerthat the cell burns. This is in
marked difference to what happens with cancercells because they can't use oxygen to make
energy, so they are very inefficientwith this. So the mitochondria control the
production of energy in an efficient waythe proper use of oxygen. But the
(05:46):
mitochondria also are a control center forthe cell in lots of other ways.
They keep track of the cell andwhen and how the cell becomes damaged,
let's say, either by an invasionor by an infection, or by toxic
damage, or by genetic damage,development into an abnormal cell, cancer cell,
(06:11):
and the mitochondria the place that keeptrack of that and when that process
becomes irreversible, the mitochondria the partof the body that says to the rest,
to the cell, you have todie now you're irreparably damaged, and
so it's called apoptosis programmed cell death. So that's one way that the mitochondria
(06:34):
really functioned with respect to the immunesystem, is that they when damage has
become too great, the immune systemhasn't protected the cell, then the cell
can have a projected cell death,So I think that's the one of the
major ways. And then also afunctioning immune system depends on the proper transfer
(06:59):
of innate immunity. The immunity thatcomes that just comes non specifically. You
know, the cell has it ischallenged and it responds in non specific ways.
But that immunity is then transferred fromthings like natural killer cells, macrofages
cells, it in gulf and killbacteria non specifically. The body then makes
(07:23):
anigens. Uh, it takes theanigens and makes antibodies so that it can
remember this is acquired immunity, rememberedimmunity, and the mitochondria has a point
a place in it in keeping trackof that as well. So yeah,
that's perfect, and it seems likesupporting both when a chondria function and immune
function is kind of the one twopunch, ye keeping us healthy hand in
(07:46):
glove, hand and glove, youneed both absolutely right, exactly, And
the and the mitochondria, you know, they're involved in all kinds of cell
signaling, and there really are theorganelle in the cell that that that's supervises
how well the cell is doing,how balanced the cell is so when your
mitochondria out of whack or they've beendisabled by for example, cancer or some
(08:09):
metabolic poisons, then you know thatcell is going to die. That's just
not healthy. So right, yeah, and you know there are there are
two ingredients that I want to talkabout as it relates to immune function and
mitochondrial function, and I'm just goingto jump right in first. The first
ingredient is fermented wheat germ extract.I've been reading about fermented wheat erm extract
(08:33):
for a lot of years, Sotell our listeners what is fermented wheat term
extract? How does it work?Okay? It it was a almost a
serendipitous discovery, but it started outfrom this this understanding that the cancer cells
metabolize differently. That's called the Warburgeffect. That the cancer cell. As
(08:56):
a cancer cell develops, it startsto lose lose a lot of it's a
lot of it's natural uh or moreadvanced tendencies. So more advanced breast cancer
becomes estrogen in, estrogen incensor,estrogen negative. So one of the first
things that a cancer cell loses isthis ability to metabolize oxygen and create fuel.
(09:20):
So so the ferment to reach yournextect was thought to be a compound
that would block the cancer cells abilityto pick up and use sugar, and
in fact it does, and itmakes the because the cancer cell has to
pick up lots and lots of sugarsince it's ineffissient at making energy. So
(09:41):
by blocking part of all of thatsugar uptake, it cripples the cell and
and it makes its metabolism, whichis primitive, function less well, and
then hopefully the cell dies, thecancer dize, the patient survives. Because
what's really key here, back tomy comment about the free lunch, this
is very interesting because it doesn't affectnormal cells. Since normal cells have a
(10:05):
normal ability to pick up oxygen anduse oxygen, they don't need a lot
of sugar to make a lot ofenergy, and therefore they're not affected by
fermented REACHERM extract. And that's beenThat's one of the ways in which it's
particularly useful because it doesn't have abad side effect profile. You know,
chemotherapy, although useful, is harshusually and sometimes the discrimination between the normal
(10:31):
cell and the abnormal cell isn't thatacute, isn't that well done, so
that the normal cells get damaged alongwith the cancer cells. We just hope
that the cancer cells get damaged alot more and die before the damage to
the person is irreversible, like neuropathyor something like that. So that's so
(10:52):
it blocks the cancer's ability to pickup sugar. It has other enzymes that
affect the cancer's ability to grow andto differentiate, not differentiate, but grow
in an unrestrained way. Because normallycells when they can butt up against each
other, like when you're sitting ina crowded airplane and your elbows going to
the person on either side of you. You know, when when cells do
(11:15):
that, they stop growing because they'vefound out the limits. But cancer cells
don't have loss that ability. Theyjust grow over over everything and the again,
a functioning mitochondria helps to restore thatfunction so that the cells regain the
ability to to feel, to feeleach other's edges, as it were.
(11:37):
The other thing that's kind of coolabout about this fermented retro extract is it
helps it helps defeat this the cancer'sability to hide. So the cancer puts
up a false flag. It putsup some some chemicals, some proteins on
the outside of the cell that tellthat tell the that tell the survey that
(11:58):
tell the surveillance cell you know thatwe're normal. You know we're not the
George you're looking for. And soone thing that fermented wheat germ does is
take away that that shielding, andso that means surveillance cells, like natural
killer cells macropages, can find theabnormal cells and ingest them and kill them
basically. So there's a several differentways that this process works, and these
(12:22):
various mechanisms of action build up oneach other like nice layers, so you
get multiple different ways to get thesame activity. Yeah, that's interesting,
And I know that you're a researcheras well as being a clinician. So
are there human studies demonstrating these effectsthat you just described. Yes, yes,
and thank you for asking me,Because we have a lot of natural
(12:46):
substances that we think are effective andwe are fairly sure or safe, but
we don't have evidence about safety.If so, for fermented wheat dterm extract
as well as HCC, we haveevidence in humans that these substances work in
the ways that I've described to you. So there have been a number of
(13:07):
studies in a number of different conditionshad net cancer, melanomas, before the
new drugs from melanoma. Pretty much, melanoma was a very challenging diagnosis,
and these materials given for a yearafter diagnosis in the first year of treatment,
along with the best conventional therapy,provided a much better outcome than patients
(13:33):
who didn't have this therapy. Sothat was melanoma and colon cancer in particular
were ones that showed that breast canceras well, they've also been helpful in
reducing some of the side effect profileshad net cancer for sure, and also
in children who had a variety ofsolid tumors, they didn't get their white
(13:54):
cells didn't get pushed down as far, so they didn't get the very very
dangerous fevers. Again, back tothe immune system. When you when you're
white celles are suppressed, your immunesystem is suppressed. You can't fight off
things that would normally be not verychallenging or might be a mild cold,
could develop into a life threatening infection. And the fermented reachrim extract was protective
(14:16):
for the children, so they didnot get these serious nutropenic fevers and didn't
require rehospitalization or potentially a more adverseoutcome than that. So again, same
kind of thing A couple of differentways it can be applied. Yeah,
that's great. So the second ingredientI want to discuss is called a h
(14:37):
c C. What is a HCCand how does that work? Okay,
this is an extract of one ofmy favorite natural substances, medicinal mushrooms.
This is particularly an extract of shitake. You've heard about this before then.
Toydes is the species name, andmushrooms again are relatively gentle substances. They
(15:05):
don't have a lot of side effects. They provide, in this case a
more general stimulant to the immune system. It helps white cells that are kind
of hanging around waiting for a job. It kicks them off the walls where
they're hanging around the walls of theblood vessels usually and gets them activated to
go to an area of infection orin this case abnormal tumor cells. And
(15:30):
these again have been shown to behelpful in humans as well and to be
non toxic. So it's another oneof those close to a free lunch that
you get the benefit without a bigside effect profile. And again I think
HGC is another nice mushroom product.It's well controlled, it's grown and prepared
(15:50):
in a very organized way, sothat you know that what you're getting is
a very dependable, reliable, repeatabledietary supplement, so that when you get
an effect, you get it againand again every time you use it.
So I think that again has asimilar kind of benefit. Yeah, yeah,
(16:11):
and I know you and I knowthat you would not be so excited
about an ingredient if it didn't havethe solid research. So, just like
for mental extract, are there humanstudies with AC, Yeah, there have
been as well, and they've beenused. It's been used again in studies,
for example, with infections as wellas cancer studies. In addition and
(16:36):
again showing this showing this same UHgeneralized stimulant effect, which again is nice
because you don't always need this rememberedimmunity. You can also use the basic
effects of white cells activated mocrifrages etcetera. Going into an area picking up
all the broken down products of adestroyed cell, or helping to UH trigger
(17:03):
apoptosis program cell death or to actuallyattack invaving molecules, viruses, bacteria,
et cetera and neutralize those. Soyeah, there have been human studies as
well for AGEC and the safety again, the safety profile of both of these
substances is very robust, and that, especially for me, is important because
(17:27):
people who are either in the middleof treatment for cancer and or people who
are under you know, have aserious uh bronchitis, pneumonia, et cetera.
They're not and they're not their strongest, and you don't want to give
them something that's so harsh to usethat it it's it further depletes their energy.
(17:49):
But rather something that is non toxic, works with natural natural processes in
the body, amplifies those and thendoes and have a toxic effect on normal
self. So those are the reasonswhy I think these products, both of
them are particularly particularly exciting for me. Yeah, it's such a such a
(18:11):
great point. Now it occurs tome after hearing you talk about both of
these ingredients, I'm curious if theywork synergistically, does it make any sense
to combine them? And when wouldyou use the combination? Yeah, you
you absolutely asked the best questions,because I think you want when when things
have a similar mechanism of action,you don't want to pile them up on
(18:34):
top of each other, because yeah, you'd like to have one plus one
equal too, that's additive, Butone plus one equals four. That's synergistic.
They that they tend to vault offof each other, and if the
mechanism of action is too similar,then they may not give you and anything
additional in addition to what the onesubstance by itself will. These actually have
(18:56):
different mechanisms of action general supportive immunityversus this highly specific effects through the Warburg
effect, you know, attacking cancer, picking up sugar through the mitochondril effect.
So yes, in fact, Ithink there is the potential to add
these two together. The way Imake that decision is in part how acute
(19:23):
my particular patient's issue is. Soif it's somebody who, for example,
has this who maybe I wasn't givingfermented term too, and they get this
neutropenic fever, then I might startthem on the fermented re term that takes
a little while to act, butthe AHCC will help de marginalizing white cells
(19:44):
and getting the non specific immune systemrevved up to start to attack whatever is
causing the fever. So that's oneway in which you could combine these two
together. And likewise, the slower'reacting more specific metatrol would benefit from acute
births of the use of the medicinalmushroom again as as needed for us to
(20:10):
help support the activities of metatrol througha different mechanism. And now what about
a person who has through with cancertreatment and they're trying to reduce the risk
of a recurrence. Yeah, that'sa great question too. I mean,
honestly, you just asked the bestquestions, thank you. So I think
(20:32):
the way I'm going to answer thatquestion, I'm gonna go back to the
literature, and I'm going to lookat the literature. For example, the
the the literature looking at the melanomapatients and some of the other human clinical
trials. What was very interesting tome was the patients were told to use
the metatrol for the first year oftreatment, and then they didn't continue taking
(20:53):
it, and yet the effect waslasted over many years. So I would
say what I've often done to patientseither who have finished their treatment or who
don't have an adjunctive treatment like,for example, estragen positive breast cancer patients
can take to maximin a remedex aromataseinhibitors some other different medicine to modify their
(21:15):
body to make them more cancer resistant. But for example, if you have
a triple negative cancer, then youdon't have an adjunctive treatment that's already been
developed. So in that case,that's a perfect patient for me to take
this metatrol for the year of treatmentand then the year after treatment. I
think that's very logical, very simple, and we have suggestions from a literature
(21:41):
that that will provide you with benefitthat could potentially last a long time after
treatment is concluded. So that's myadvice about that that that year, that
first year after treatment is probably criticalto reduce your risk of recurrence. Yeah,
that makes so much sense to me, and I love the fact that
(22:02):
it does have a lasting effect.And I'm glad that you brought up triple
negative because my sister is a triplenegative cancer survivor. And yeah, and
you're absolutely correct. To have accessto this type of product for triple negative
is incredible, right because you're basicallytold bye bye, good luck, see
you if and when you recur.But for most patients that's a horrible place
(22:27):
to be. They really want todo something to help themselves, and unfortunately
the conventional oncologists in large part don'tunderstand about these natural therapies. There are
a group of oncologists that have beeneducating themselves and getting actively involved, but
still the majority of the's you're goingto have to teach your doctor about this
(22:48):
to allow them to feel comfortable withyour using it. But honestly, it's
such a low risk. I don'tsee why they would object. Yeah,
your sister, this would be awonderful thing to do. To take this
for a year and at least andthen see what happens. I also don't
like to tell people to take somethingforever and ever, although you know,
(23:08):
if you did, If you did, sorry, that's okay. If you
did, that's probably someone calling meabout this right now. If you did
decide to take this for a longerperiod of time, the safety profile is
really sufficient that it would be itcould be a very good thing for you
(23:32):
to go ahead, and it won'tbe harmful for you to take this for
a longer period of time, rightright. And I do have to say,
my sister is doing phenomenal. She'samazing. Yeah, a long term
survivor. Yeah, so that's that'sgreat news. Long maybe I continue,
yeah, exactly. So I wouldlike to talk a little bit about other
(23:52):
ways to enhandsome unity and support mitochondrialfunction. So what are your goats like
if you have to focus in ona few things in addition to supporting immune
immediate Yeah, with fermented HHCC.What's your recommendation for other ways that we
(24:14):
can support our immune system. Oneof the first thing I always ask patients
to do, whether they're infectious diseasepatients or cancer patients, is to know
their vitamin D level, because weknow that an adequate vitamin D level is
necessary to allow the immune system tofunction optimally. And the kind of things
I'm going to talk about now arekind of bars to entry, Like if
(24:37):
your vitamin D level is low,if your zinc is low, if your
micronutrients are poor, then your immunesystem is not going to be functioning optimally.
So vitamin D is the first thing. Your level I like to have
in around fifteen nanograms per m mail. That's a that's a level that's going
to be measured in your in yourblood. And if you're listening from other
(25:02):
countries beside the United States, youmight you might have a different level of
measurement, a different a different adifferent UH measurement standard, So you should
just double check in it. Youshould be not just barely adequate, but
robustly adequate, but not too highbecause there is evidence that at very high
levels there may be a detrimental effectfrom too much vitamin D. So it's
(25:23):
the goldilocks right in the middle,a good, nice, robust level.
That's the first thing. Then Ilike to make sure people's micro micronutrients,
which are minerals like zinc and amagnesium and stuff like that, are normal
because there are parts of many,many different enzyme systems, so they may
be part of the enzyme systems thatare used to attack and and create vacuals
(25:48):
and then dissolve the abnormal bacteria orstuff like that that get ingested. That's
one kind of a thing I liketo see. I also think it's important
that you're diet is adequate. Uhwe've found out from the pandemic that clearly
we've talked about this a lot.Eating a diet that's varied fruits and vegetables,
(26:10):
not too low and refined car Imean, not too high and refined
carbohydrates, but also adequate amounts ofhigh quality protein which can be either plant
or animal sourced, allows again yourimmune function optimally. If you know you
have an active something from the outsidethat's that's delimiting your immune system, like
(26:33):
a toxic exposure. Then you wantto stop that toxic exposure, probably most
easily by eating organic food and thendo some simple detox routines like eating a
fiber so that your digestive system workswell and binds toxins in the gut and
eliminates them. Drink lots of fluidso your kidney's flesh out. Stuff like
(26:55):
that. Yeah, that's that's perfect. We're all great advice. I also
want to remind our listeners that youcan get free samples and more information about
the two ingredients we profiled on tonight'sshow by going to the harmonycompany dot com
forward slash thrive. So if thishas peaked your curiosity and you want more
information, just go to the Harmonycoompany dot com forward slash thrive. All
(27:21):
right, doctor Hardy, we haveabout a minute left, any parting final
words for our listeners. When itcomes to enhancing and supercharging your immune system,
you are powerful, you are nothelpless. There are things you can
do to help yourself. And aswe're developing the sense that the lonely cell
is the cancer cell, so embedyourself in a healthy healing community. Eat
(27:44):
well, sleep well, enjoy theworld you're in, spend time in nature,
and choose supplements to help to helpenhance your native immunity. That's excellent,
excellent advice, and what a greatway to end. Thank you so
much, doctor Hardy for joining me. It's so great to be with you,
Carolyn, and I really look forwardto doing this again with you sometime
(28:07):
soon. Absolutely. Well, thatwraps up this episode of five to Thrive
Live once again. I'd like tothank our sponsors, American Biosciences, makers
of Metrogol and Empower products that containwe term extract and a HCC to supercharge
your immune system. Also amuse postbiotic to give your immune system that extra
boost, Cognizan citicolon to help enhancememory, focus and attention, and doctor
(28:30):
Ohira's award winning shelf stable probiotic.Well, this has been great. May
you experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone, have
a great night.
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