November 26, 2024 • 29 mins
Some would argue that we live in fearful times. On this show, Karolyn and Lise talk about the negative health effects that living in fear can have on our physical, mental, and emotional health. They also discuss the importance of transforming that fear into more positive feelings of love, empathy, compassion, curiosity, and others. They also provide practical strategies to consider when trying to ease fearful feelings.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET and Music on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gizella, and I'm joined by my awesome co host
and good friend, doctor Lese Alschuler. Hello, Lise, how are
you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm doing very well today. How are you, Carolyn?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm great. HEADO yeah, i head of a horse backgrid
this afternoon. I'm leaving town to be with family tomorrow.
I'm really living the dream over here, Lise.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
I love it. Well, Carolyn. I want to know a
little bit more about our topic today. What are we
talking about today?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, it's interesting because I got to choose the topic.
I'm super psyched about it. It's an interesting one. We're
going to be talking about how to transform fear into love. So,
you know, to me, the world feels a little bit
more fearful. I don't know if you feel that way, Lese.
If you've noticed a heightened the level of fear in
(01:37):
the world today.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
For sure. Yeah, I think it's yes, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So we're gonna be digging in and just finding out
what that does to our body and how we can
switch that up. And it's not just love, it's other emotions.
It's the opposite of fear. It's faith and hope and
joy and contentment. And so that's our topic. But first, lease,
(02:02):
why don't you go ahead and thank our wonderful sponsors.
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you can learn more at doctor Orhira Probiotics dot com. Okay, Carolyn,
where should we begin when it comes to talking about fear? Okay?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, you know, Lise, you and I are self admitted
science geek, so I'd like to start with the science,
and I want to acknowledge that fear is not necessarily
a bad thing. You know, it's a feeling that we
can actually keep us safe. You know, when we experience
the emotion of fear at triggers, you know, a feeling
like we want to flee or hide or escape or
(03:58):
other basic instincts that are heartwired in us, which is
a good thing. But Lise, the research is pretty clear
that when we feel fearful often or chronically, fear can
become detrimental to our physical, mental, and emotional health. So, Lise,
why is that and what type of specific damage can
(04:19):
it do to us?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
So there's lots of ways to answer this question, but
maybe I'll start with the physical or the physiological component
of fear. So, when we're in a fear state, evolutionarily speaking,
that fearful state was really programmed to allow us to
mobilize ourselves to escape from whatever is causing the fear.
I e. Back in the day a line in the
(04:43):
grass on the savannah, for example, we needed to be
able to run from the lion. So when we're in
a fear state, our heart beats faster, the blood sort
of flows into our muscles, away from our digestive system.
We're on the alert and so that we can mobilize
ourselves away from that fear. All great when it's a
(05:03):
lyne in the grass, But if what's creating fear is
just this underlying angst about how the world is working,
or fear of not having enough, fear of not being enough,
fear of not the world, not being safe, all of
the things that are kind of in our modern life.
More so, that same physiological reaction can occur, and yet
(05:27):
we're not running away from anything physically, so we're not
dispelling all that energy and all those stress and fear
associated chemicals. So as a result, we can start to
experience negative effects from our fear response, and we can
over time develop high blood pressure, we can develop some
(05:47):
digestive disorders, we can develop some anxiety, we can develop
some issues related to our immune system not functioning as well.
So all of these things are considered responses to chronic stress,
which in many cases really is an expression of chronic fear.
So from a sort of physiological perspective, that's one component
(06:10):
of fear. Yes, I don't know if you want to
take it from there, but there's you know, spiritual components
to it, psychological components.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, I would like you to continue it because I
would like you to also get to the place where
what kind of health ramifications can I have? And I
will say one thing before you go there. It also
seems like when we're in a chronic state of fear,
when this becomes problematic and we're feeling this feeling. Often
(06:43):
we can kind of lose our perspective and all of
a sudden, the fear has more power than it actually is.
It's inflated, it feels worse than it actually is, and
we lose our perspective. So I think that there's danger
in this chronicness, of this feeling of fearfulnes right, yes,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Well, you know, so what I mentioned earlier will if
it stays around long enough, though, that fear reaction will
start to set us up to experience certain kinds of
ill health. So, for example, we will have dysregulation of
our immune system, and being in a chronic state of
fear aka chronic stress, we will experience a greater susceptibility
(07:28):
to chronic infections, to autoimmune diseases, even potentially to things
like cancer. We in a sort of an endocrine sense,
we have a greater predisposition to experiencing autoimmune disease in
the endocrine system, which sometimes or most commonly shows up
(07:50):
as autoimmune thyroid disease. We can develop cortosol related dysfunction
which can disrupt our sleep, so we can have in
some or that can manifest as trouble falling asleep, trouble
staying asleep, being fatigued during the day. So that's like
a circadian disruption or an alteration, and what's called the
(08:11):
hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. It can affect our digestion and
our ability to digest comfortably, which in turn can cause
some eating disorders, and sometimes we start to eat emotionally,
so we are trying to feed ourselves into a state
of security rather than feeling our way into a state
of security, and that can lead to issues with obesity
(08:32):
and blood sugar problems. So you know, there's quite a
lot that actually can start to occur as a result
of chronic fear.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yes, And it does make sense, and it just really
clearly illustrates that chronic fear can have a negative effect
on our physical, mental, and emotional health. Now you mentioned spiritual,
like there's a spiritual component for you in this transformation
and that we're going to be talking about tonight. Do
you want to talk a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
More about that, yes, So you know, in some ways,
fear really underlies every what we would what some people
characterize as negative. I don't really like that word, but
it underlies every non loving emotion. So when we're let's say,
angry at somebody, you know, the question to ask underneath
(09:24):
us is what are we afraid of about that person
not doing? Not saying? What are we afraid of that
person having done? Or you know, whatever the case might be.
Fear underlies the sense of you can even underlie violence.
We're afraid of losing resources that we feel are ours
(09:44):
or belong to us. I mean, it just underlies a
lot of other more destructive emotions. And so I think
that there's you know, a very significant consequence to fear.
And really when people are afraid, essentially they also feel
very alone and very isolated, and that can start to
become a spiritual sense of isolation, so that people don't
(10:07):
feel connected to the cosmos, connected to the beyond, to
the you know, to God, whatever word we want to
call it. And so people start to kind of lose
their way. And when they're feeling that, it's really hard
to re emerge into one's life with feelings instead of love,
of connection, of compassion, of empathy, and so from us,
(10:33):
from that perspective, fear I think is a very spiritually
destructive emotion or state of being. And I just want
to acknowledge something too that you know, fear, and we'll
talk of course, we're going to get to strategies to
help us not be so fearful. But when we think
about fear, I want to just acknowledge the fact that
(10:55):
people grow up, many of us grew up in situations
that are essentially feel unsafe and are fearful. And these
situations are called adverse childhood traumas or events. And the
more unsafe our environment feels as a child, the more
we kind of hardwire a fear response in our bodies physiologically.
(11:17):
So people who have traumatic childhood tend to have a
much easier or it's much easier for them to slip
into a state of fear. And so I just want
to acknowledge that because this is not like a quick, easy,
fixed situation for a lot of people. That can really
require some pretty deep work that can go you know,
(11:38):
for some people have to go all the way back
and to explore you know, even childhood life.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, such good points that you brought up. I love
how you mentioned non loving emotions. What a great way
to describe that. And I also like the fact that
you brought up isolation because I think that when we
are fearful, we can be isolated and the health ramifications
of isolation. I was just talking about that on another show.
(12:04):
I mean, it's it's significant, So I think that's really
that's really important. So you're you know, we're talking about
transforming fear into some of the more positive, health affirming
emotions that you mentioned, love, empathy, compassion, curiosity, joy, So
these positive emotions can actually become the antidote for fear.
(12:27):
So I would argue least that the first step towards
true transformation of our fears is recognition. And I want
to emphasize something that you just brought up to. If
this feels difficult and something that you can't do on
your own, there are therapists who can help with this
type of transformation. You know, get support, talk to friends,
(12:50):
you know, whatever it takes. But definitely if it feels heavy,
then then get some help. But I really feel like
transforming our fears is all about recognition. So recognition of
the fears shines a light on it, and without that light,
we can't see it, and we may try to hide it.
(13:11):
It could potentially fester, and that's when it can become
worse and we you know, we start stacking our fears
on top of each other and it just becomes heavy.
So my first strategy is recognition and awareness. Now we
can do this by like I mentioned, talking to a
therapist or you know, having that good friend or journaling
(13:33):
or meditating or some other action that stimulates this awareness
of our fears. Now, I you know this lease. I'm
a big nature girl, and I find that if I
set an intention before I go on my hike and
it's just me and the dog and I'm out in nature,
(13:56):
it's amazing the insights that I can have in this
processing of the fear. I don't know what it is.
I think it's something to do with you know, my
feet are hitting the ground in that pace and then
I've got nature. But all of a sudden, I'm like,
I have these aha moments that happens to work for me.
(14:16):
But find some way for you to recognize and be
aware of the fears that you're feeling. And you know,
we're going to give you some tips on how to
process that as well. But what do you think les
about my first strategy, recognition and awareness?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Love it? Totally agree with you. I think awareness is
absolutely the first step there's a practice that I'm starting
to utilize more in my own life which is around
this idea of awareness. And it's also a way to
adopt the idea that we are not our emotions, that
(14:57):
we are having our emotion or we are having an
emotiontional experience, and that the I who is having this
emotional experience is much bigger than the emotion itself. And
one of the ways to kind of work that into
your thinking processes just with language. So instead of saying
I am afraid, you can use language like I is
(15:22):
experiencing a feeling of fear, So it's sort of now
I is experiencing a feeling of fear is like a
third person I. So it sort of allows you, just
through your languaging to kind of step outside of the
experience just enough to gain a little separation from it.
And that's a form of awareness because when we have
(15:43):
that level of awareness, then we give ourselves a little
bit more flexibility to not be taken up and be
sort of controlled by the emotion, but rather we can
respond to the emotional situation. We're not so reactive, We're
a little bit more proactive in how we can then
(16:04):
move forward. We can with that sense of separation, I
is experiencing fear, Well, what did I experience that created
that fear? What is I responding to that caused this
sense of fear? So it just allows a little bit
of a kind of a calmer way to move forward.
So I've been doing this myself a lot lately, and
(16:26):
I've found it to be actually quite transformative for all
kinds of emotions, but certainly fear.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh absolutely, we are not our emotions. I love that,
and I think that's that's you know, that's a really
great perspective. And language is powerful, you know, the words,
the words that we use to describe things and to
describe ourselves are powerful. And speaking of that, lately, I've
been thinking a lot about this idea of what am
(16:55):
I inviting into my life? For some reason, I just
like that phrame what are you inviting in Carolyn? And
it could be people, it could be activities, and it
could be feelings. And I think that this concept is
so powerful. But before I talk about my strategy associated
(17:16):
with that, do you have another, like a strategy that
helps you, you know, other than language, or should I
just move right into this whole idea about inviting things in.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, I do have one thing I would say, which
is just that you know, we have a body that
we inhabit, our spirit, our soul's inhabit, or whatever your
belief system is. And usually, like we've just gone through
at the beginning of the show, when we experience an
emotion like fear, there's a physical experience of that emotion too,
And fear is very distinctive for people. You know, there's
(17:50):
typically clear indications that your body is in a a
feeling of fear. You start to sweat, you get antsy,
or maybe you're stomach start, you know, your testine start
to cramp, your neck might get tight, you know, whatever
the case might be. So I think just having sort
of some body awareness is very helpful because then that
(18:12):
gives you yet another avenue to sort of give yourself
a moment. Okay, my body's getting tight, I'm getting antsy,
so let me just take a moment. Let me just
feel my feet on the ground, let me position myself
in a nice rooted way, take a couple of deep breaths.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
So it helps your.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Body kind of separate from the emotion as well. So
I would just add that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh, I love it, I love it because it also
when you're thinking about your physical body, you're more in
touch with your intuition. It makes me think about something
that you told me a long time ago when we
were first public speaking, and I would get nervous and
I think it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Was you, and I think I know what you're gonna say.
What wiggle your toes? You aggle your toes.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And it's very grounding. It has I feel my feet.
I'm not up in my head. I'm very you know. So, yeah,
we can do that same thing.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Now.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
One thing that you and I have been talking about
for years is to change behavior, we need consistent small steps.
I would like to talk about how we can consistently
invite love into our lives by focusing on gratitude. Now,
there was an analysis of sixty four randomized clinical trials
(19:25):
that was published last year. That's a lot of trials.
It consistently found that people who practice gratitude interventions had
fewer symptoms of anxiety and depression and better overall mental health.
Gratitude is powerful, and I'm going to go back to
this whole concept about what are we inviting in I
(19:46):
would suggest that when we invite more gratitude into our lives,
we get more love and there's no room for fear.
And I think that we have choices, and when we
make these types of choices, like I'm going to start
my day by thinking about gratitude and what I'm going
(20:09):
to be grateful for today, I think that empowers us
to try to lead with more love during the course
of our day.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Love it, love it.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I have a quick little metaphor for you to illustrate this,
and I want okay, So I've got a box. In
the bottom of the box, I put a deflated balloon.
A lot of room in that box, right, But as
I fill up that balloon, the balloon starts taking up
more and more space. And when the balloon is filled,
there's no more room for anything else other than that balloon.
(20:43):
So I propose to you, lease, we can choose what
type of air we put into that balloon. When we
put in love and compassion and hope and calmness and joy,
there's no room for fear. You think of my metaphor,
I like it. It's good.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
It's good. And you know, I think that your idea
about gratitude being you know, an evidence based antidote to
fear is beautiful whenever we talk about gratitude, I immediately
think of brother David steinel Rast who's ninety eight years old.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
He's a Benedict monk, and he has been talking about
gratitude for most of his adult life. He's a beautiful man,
and he has a website actually it's Grateful Living.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
But he.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I read about a practice that he does recently, and
it is that you know, now, mind you, he's been
talking about feeling grateful for years and years and years decades,
and every day he comes up with something to feel
grateful about that he's never expressed gratitude about before, which
(21:58):
is amazing. Like ninety eight years old, this is you know,
he'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.
But it's such a beautiful practice because it creates awareness,
which is what we opened with, because he has to
be aware right of things that he hasn't thought about
before and that he's grateful. So it can be little things,
the ability to take a breath comfortably, the way that
(22:21):
you know, the tree outside his window looks like whatever
the case might be. But I just think that's such
a beautiful little practice, and it kind of is a
nice way into gratitude and would fill that balloon with
some nice things.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I love that, and it's something that I don't do.
I'm always like repeating my same gratitude list every morning,
you know, right, So introducing especially small things, I think
that's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's sweet.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So yeah, you know, I think that in addition to
gratitude and you know, kind of other positive emotions, we
have to really also focus on love because love is
such a beautiful antidote to fear. And I think that
with gratitude there's sort of a sense of love, but
naming it, naming love more directly, I think is a
(23:10):
really important way to approach this to you know, when
I am in my most fearful state, or I'm feeling
afraid about something, and sometimes for me, I get afraid
of things that are not even happened yet. Like I
just start to go down this track of a potential
outcome of a situation, and I think about it and
(23:31):
I start to imagine it, and I've pretty soon I've
got this whole stream of events that I'm now afraid
about happening, and it's all in my head. You know,
it's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Oh, it's I boy, I can relate. It's so true.
We create these stories and I'm like often ten steps
ahead of myself and I'm like, whoa car right?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
So I found that the really the best, sometimes the
only way to pull myself back from doing that is
through this idea of love. So I just sort of
when I can remember, I take a breath and I
just ask myself, what do I most love about this
(24:15):
moment this world? You know, if it's a if I've
kind of spun off about a certain situation, about that
situation or somebody in that situation or something, I just realized,
what do I love? And because typically there's the fear
is about losing something in that scenario or I'm afraid
of something happening to something I really value. So it
(24:38):
just refocuses me a little bit and it tends to
kind of calm me down and kind of shatters that
whole crazy illusion in story that I'm creating.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, I would agree, And for me, I have these
mantras like I'll just say, okay, Carolyn, let it go,
just let it go be in the moment. And I'm
doing this whole thing about inviting, like when you're spinning
Carolyn what are you inviting in? And is that what
you want to invite in right now? And so I
(25:09):
have this whole conversation with myself, as you know these
I like to talk to myself a lot. I'm a
really I'm a great conversationalist with myself.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, well we have that in common. And you know,
I mean, let's be real, Like I think, anxiety and
fear is very we all have it, and we're never
going to get rid of it completely. So it's it's
something I think we have to make peace with the
fact that we will experience. So really, what you and
I are talking about is acknowledging that, yes, we're going
to all have experiences of fear and anxiety. So let's
(25:40):
also be able to reach into our pocket and pull
out a strategy here and there, gratitude, awareness, love, inviting
in other things to just get ourselves out of that
state so we don't spin into really prolonged, protracted, disabling anxiety,
(26:00):
which I mean, let's be real. Let's look around the world.
There's a lot of anxiety and fear which are provoking violence,
are provoking a lot of things that are very hurtful
to others. So we're kind of all gripped in this
state of fear. And I think I would argue I
would go so far as to say that acknowledging our
fear on an individual level, and then as more of
(26:22):
us do this more and more doing it societally and
culturally and then globally, I think this is potentially the
key to living a peaceful, healthy life as a human species.
I mean it's very important.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree. And I know that things
are challenging, and you know, I go back to my
balloon because you know that I like the balloon. If
in fact, I've filled my balloon up with fear, I
always have the opportunity to let the air out of
that balloon and start again. And I think that's what
I'm going to do. I'm gonna, you know, if my
(27:01):
balloon is filled with fear, I'm going to let that
out and I'm gonna fill it up with love and
all of these other faith and hope, and you know,
letting things go and being in the moment, and that's
what's going to fill my balloon. And you know, we
can be there for each other too. I think that
if you know you and I I know we do this,
but if you have a friend that you see is
(27:24):
really spiraling into fear, is kind of stuck in some anxiety.
I think being somebody who expresses gratitude to them for
something that they give to you in your life, or
expressing your love for them just by example, or even
just sharing a moment of gratitude, you know, looking at something,
(27:44):
experiencing something. Together, we can support each other in this
effort as well. Yeah, that's where the compassion comes in,
compassion for ourselves and compassion for others. And you're right,
try to find that person and and get some support
for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
So, Carolyn, any last words of wisdom on this topic.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I love this topic, and I think what I love
most about it is that we do, in fact have
choice and we can we can do this transforming work.
I think that it is possible to transform fear into love,
and that's what I love about this.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
I agree. Yeah, I think that, you know, we try
to in this show give people hope and encouragement to
just take one little baby step. So even if it's
just practicing a little gratitude in a new way or
trying the different languaging that we've talked about using the
balloon in the box, whatever it is, just take one
little step and just see what happens in your life.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes, I agree, well Lis, this has been a great show.
Once again, I'd like to thank our wonderful sponsors pro
Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Immuse post Biotic to give your immune
system that extra boost, Cognizancetic Willing to help enhance memory,
focus and attention, and doctor here is award winning shelf
Stable Probiotics. Great show, Lise, I agree, what fun and
(29:10):
I hope that you have a beautiful day of gratitude
and love and that you listeners that you experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone, have a
great night
Speaker 3 (29:35):
To see jas
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gizella, and I'm joined by my awesome co host
and good friend, doctor Lese Alschuler. Hello, Lise, how are
you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm doing very well today. How are you, Carolyn?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm great. HEADO yeah, i head of a horse backgrid
this afternoon. I'm leaving town to be with family tomorrow.
I'm really living the dream over here, Lise.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
I love it. Well, Carolyn. I want to know a
little bit more about our topic today. What are we
talking about today?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, it's interesting because I got to choose the topic.
I'm super psyched about it. It's an interesting one. We're
going to be talking about how to transform fear into love. So,
you know, to me, the world feels a little bit
more fearful. I don't know if you feel that way, Lese.
If you've noticed a heightened the level of fear in
(01:37):
the world today.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
For sure. Yeah, I think it's yes, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So we're gonna be digging in and just finding out
what that does to our body and how we can
switch that up. And it's not just love, it's other emotions.
It's the opposite of fear. It's faith and hope and
joy and contentment. And so that's our topic. But first, lease,
(02:02):
why don't you go ahead and thank our wonderful sponsors.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
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you can learn more at doctor Orhira Probiotics dot com. Okay, Carolyn,
where should we begin when it comes to talking about fear? Okay?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, you know, Lise, you and I are self admitted
science geek, so I'd like to start with the science,
and I want to acknowledge that fear is not necessarily
a bad thing. You know, it's a feeling that we
can actually keep us safe. You know, when we experience
the emotion of fear at triggers, you know, a feeling
like we want to flee or hide or escape or
(03:58):
other basic instincts that are heartwired in us, which is
a good thing. But Lise, the research is pretty clear
that when we feel fearful often or chronically, fear can
become detrimental to our physical, mental, and emotional health. So, Lise,
why is that and what type of specific damage can
(04:19):
it do to us?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
So there's lots of ways to answer this question, but
maybe I'll start with the physical or the physiological component
of fear. So, when we're in a fear state, evolutionarily speaking,
that fearful state was really programmed to allow us to
mobilize ourselves to escape from whatever is causing the fear.
I e. Back in the day a line in the
(04:43):
grass on the savannah, for example, we needed to be
able to run from the lion. So when we're in
a fear state, our heart beats faster, the blood sort
of flows into our muscles, away from our digestive system.
We're on the alert and so that we can mobilize
ourselves away from that fear. All great when it's a
(05:03):
lyne in the grass, But if what's creating fear is
just this underlying angst about how the world is working,
or fear of not having enough, fear of not being enough,
fear of not the world, not being safe, all of
the things that are kind of in our modern life.
More so, that same physiological reaction can occur, and yet
(05:27):
we're not running away from anything physically, so we're not
dispelling all that energy and all those stress and fear
associated chemicals. So as a result, we can start to
experience negative effects from our fear response, and we can
over time develop high blood pressure, we can develop some
(05:47):
digestive disorders, we can develop some anxiety, we can develop
some issues related to our immune system not functioning as well.
So all of these things are considered responses to chronic stress,
which in many cases really is an expression of chronic fear.
So from a sort of physiological perspective, that's one component
(06:10):
of fear. Yes, I don't know if you want to
take it from there, but there's you know, spiritual components
to it, psychological components.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, I would like you to continue it because I
would like you to also get to the place where
what kind of health ramifications can I have? And I
will say one thing before you go there. It also
seems like when we're in a chronic state of fear,
when this becomes problematic and we're feeling this feeling. Often
(06:43):
we can kind of lose our perspective and all of
a sudden, the fear has more power than it actually is.
It's inflated, it feels worse than it actually is, and
we lose our perspective. So I think that there's danger
in this chronicness, of this feeling of fearfulnes right, yes,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Well, you know, so what I mentioned earlier will if
it stays around long enough, though, that fear reaction will
start to set us up to experience certain kinds of
ill health. So, for example, we will have dysregulation of
our immune system, and being in a chronic state of
fear aka chronic stress, we will experience a greater susceptibility
(07:28):
to chronic infections, to autoimmune diseases, even potentially to things
like cancer. We in a sort of an endocrine sense,
we have a greater predisposition to experiencing autoimmune disease in
the endocrine system, which sometimes or most commonly shows up
(07:50):
as autoimmune thyroid disease. We can develop cortosol related dysfunction
which can disrupt our sleep, so we can have in
some or that can manifest as trouble falling asleep, trouble
staying asleep, being fatigued during the day. So that's like
a circadian disruption or an alteration, and what's called the
(08:11):
hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. It can affect our digestion and
our ability to digest comfortably, which in turn can cause
some eating disorders, and sometimes we start to eat emotionally,
so we are trying to feed ourselves into a state
of security rather than feeling our way into a state
of security, and that can lead to issues with obesity
(08:32):
and blood sugar problems. So you know, there's quite a
lot that actually can start to occur as a result
of chronic fear.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yes, And it does make sense, and it just really
clearly illustrates that chronic fear can have a negative effect
on our physical, mental, and emotional health. Now you mentioned spiritual,
like there's a spiritual component for you in this transformation
and that we're going to be talking about tonight. Do
you want to talk a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
More about that, yes, So you know, in some ways,
fear really underlies every what we would what some people
characterize as negative. I don't really like that word, but
it underlies every non loving emotion. So when we're let's say,
angry at somebody, you know, the question to ask underneath
(09:24):
us is what are we afraid of about that person
not doing? Not saying? What are we afraid of that
person having done? Or you know, whatever the case might be.
Fear underlies the sense of you can even underlie violence.
We're afraid of losing resources that we feel are ours
(09:44):
or belong to us. I mean, it just underlies a
lot of other more destructive emotions. And so I think
that there's you know, a very significant consequence to fear.
And really when people are afraid, essentially they also feel
very alone and very isolated, and that can start to
become a spiritual sense of isolation, so that people don't
(10:07):
feel connected to the cosmos, connected to the beyond, to
the you know, to God, whatever word we want to
call it. And so people start to kind of lose
their way. And when they're feeling that, it's really hard
to re emerge into one's life with feelings instead of love,
of connection, of compassion, of empathy, and so from us,
(10:33):
from that perspective, fear I think is a very spiritually
destructive emotion or state of being. And I just want
to acknowledge something too that you know, fear, and we'll
talk of course, we're going to get to strategies to
help us not be so fearful. But when we think
about fear, I want to just acknowledge the fact that
(10:55):
people grow up, many of us grew up in situations
that are essentially feel unsafe and are fearful. And these
situations are called adverse childhood traumas or events. And the
more unsafe our environment feels as a child, the more
we kind of hardwire a fear response in our bodies physiologically.
(11:17):
So people who have traumatic childhood tend to have a
much easier or it's much easier for them to slip
into a state of fear. And so I just want
to acknowledge that because this is not like a quick, easy,
fixed situation for a lot of people. That can really
require some pretty deep work that can go you know,
(11:38):
for some people have to go all the way back
and to explore you know, even childhood life.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, such good points that you brought up. I love
how you mentioned non loving emotions. What a great way
to describe that. And I also like the fact that
you brought up isolation because I think that when we
are fearful, we can be isolated and the health ramifications
of isolation. I was just talking about that on another show.
(12:04):
I mean, it's it's significant, So I think that's really
that's really important. So you're you know, we're talking about
transforming fear into some of the more positive, health affirming
emotions that you mentioned, love, empathy, compassion, curiosity, joy, So
these positive emotions can actually become the antidote for fear.
(12:27):
So I would argue least that the first step towards
true transformation of our fears is recognition. And I want
to emphasize something that you just brought up to. If
this feels difficult and something that you can't do on
your own, there are therapists who can help with this
type of transformation. You know, get support, talk to friends,
(12:50):
you know, whatever it takes. But definitely if it feels heavy,
then then get some help. But I really feel like
transforming our fears is all about recognition. So recognition of
the fears shines a light on it, and without that light,
we can't see it, and we may try to hide it.
(13:11):
It could potentially fester, and that's when it can become
worse and we you know, we start stacking our fears
on top of each other and it just becomes heavy.
So my first strategy is recognition and awareness. Now we
can do this by like I mentioned, talking to a
therapist or you know, having that good friend or journaling
(13:33):
or meditating or some other action that stimulates this awareness
of our fears. Now, I you know this lease. I'm
a big nature girl, and I find that if I
set an intention before I go on my hike and
it's just me and the dog and I'm out in nature,
(13:56):
it's amazing the insights that I can have in this
processing of the fear. I don't know what it is.
I think it's something to do with you know, my
feet are hitting the ground in that pace and then
I've got nature. But all of a sudden, I'm like,
I have these aha moments that happens to work for me.
(14:16):
But find some way for you to recognize and be
aware of the fears that you're feeling. And you know,
we're going to give you some tips on how to
process that as well. But what do you think les
about my first strategy, recognition and awareness?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Love it? Totally agree with you. I think awareness is
absolutely the first step there's a practice that I'm starting
to utilize more in my own life which is around
this idea of awareness. And it's also a way to
adopt the idea that we are not our emotions, that
(14:57):
we are having our emotion or we are having an
emotiontional experience, and that the I who is having this
emotional experience is much bigger than the emotion itself. And
one of the ways to kind of work that into
your thinking processes just with language. So instead of saying
I am afraid, you can use language like I is
(15:22):
experiencing a feeling of fear, So it's sort of now
I is experiencing a feeling of fear is like a
third person I. So it sort of allows you, just
through your languaging to kind of step outside of the
experience just enough to gain a little separation from it.
And that's a form of awareness because when we have
(15:43):
that level of awareness, then we give ourselves a little
bit more flexibility to not be taken up and be
sort of controlled by the emotion, but rather we can
respond to the emotional situation. We're not so reactive, We're
a little bit more proactive in how we can then
(16:04):
move forward. We can with that sense of separation, I
is experiencing fear, Well, what did I experience that created
that fear? What is I responding to that caused this
sense of fear? So it just allows a little bit
of a kind of a calmer way to move forward.
So I've been doing this myself a lot lately, and
(16:26):
I've found it to be actually quite transformative for all
kinds of emotions, but certainly fear.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh absolutely, we are not our emotions. I love that,
and I think that's that's you know, that's a really
great perspective. And language is powerful, you know, the words,
the words that we use to describe things and to
describe ourselves are powerful. And speaking of that, lately, I've
been thinking a lot about this idea of what am
(16:55):
I inviting into my life? For some reason, I just
like that phrame what are you inviting in Carolyn? And
it could be people, it could be activities, and it
could be feelings. And I think that this concept is
so powerful. But before I talk about my strategy associated
(17:16):
with that, do you have another, like a strategy that
helps you, you know, other than language, or should I
just move right into this whole idea about inviting things in.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, I do have one thing I would say, which
is just that you know, we have a body that
we inhabit, our spirit, our soul's inhabit, or whatever your
belief system is. And usually, like we've just gone through
at the beginning of the show, when we experience an
emotion like fear, there's a physical experience of that emotion too,
And fear is very distinctive for people. You know, there's
(17:50):
typically clear indications that your body is in a a
feeling of fear. You start to sweat, you get antsy,
or maybe you're stomach start, you know, your testine start
to cramp, your neck might get tight, you know, whatever
the case might be. So I think just having sort
of some body awareness is very helpful because then that
(18:12):
gives you yet another avenue to sort of give yourself
a moment. Okay, my body's getting tight, I'm getting antsy,
so let me just take a moment. Let me just
feel my feet on the ground, let me position myself
in a nice rooted way, take a couple of deep breaths.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
So it helps your.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Body kind of separate from the emotion as well. So
I would just add that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh, I love it, I love it because it also
when you're thinking about your physical body, you're more in
touch with your intuition. It makes me think about something
that you told me a long time ago when we
were first public speaking, and I would get nervous and
I think it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Was you, and I think I know what you're gonna say.
What wiggle your toes? You aggle your toes.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And it's very grounding. It has I feel my feet.
I'm not up in my head. I'm very you know. So, yeah,
we can do that same thing.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Now.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
One thing that you and I have been talking about
for years is to change behavior, we need consistent small steps.
I would like to talk about how we can consistently
invite love into our lives by focusing on gratitude. Now,
there was an analysis of sixty four randomized clinical trials
(19:25):
that was published last year. That's a lot of trials.
It consistently found that people who practice gratitude interventions had
fewer symptoms of anxiety and depression and better overall mental health.
Gratitude is powerful, and I'm going to go back to
this whole concept about what are we inviting in I
(19:46):
would suggest that when we invite more gratitude into our lives,
we get more love and there's no room for fear.
And I think that we have choices, and when we
make these types of choices, like I'm going to start
my day by thinking about gratitude and what I'm going
(20:09):
to be grateful for today, I think that empowers us
to try to lead with more love during the course
of our day.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Love it, love it.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I have a quick little metaphor for you to illustrate this,
and I want okay, So I've got a box. In
the bottom of the box, I put a deflated balloon.
A lot of room in that box, right, But as
I fill up that balloon, the balloon starts taking up
more and more space. And when the balloon is filled,
there's no more room for anything else other than that balloon.
(20:43):
So I propose to you, lease, we can choose what
type of air we put into that balloon. When we
put in love and compassion and hope and calmness and joy,
there's no room for fear. You think of my metaphor,
I like it. It's good.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
It's good. And you know, I think that your idea
about gratitude being you know, an evidence based antidote to
fear is beautiful whenever we talk about gratitude, I immediately
think of brother David steinel Rast who's ninety eight years old.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
He's a Benedict monk, and he has been talking about
gratitude for most of his adult life. He's a beautiful man,
and he has a website actually it's Grateful Living.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
But he.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I read about a practice that he does recently, and
it is that you know, now, mind you, he's been
talking about feeling grateful for years and years and years decades,
and every day he comes up with something to feel
grateful about that he's never expressed gratitude about before, which
(21:58):
is amazing. Like ninety eight years old, this is you know,
he'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.
But it's such a beautiful practice because it creates awareness,
which is what we opened with, because he has to
be aware right of things that he hasn't thought about
before and that he's grateful. So it can be little things,
the ability to take a breath comfortably, the way that
(22:21):
you know, the tree outside his window looks like whatever
the case might be. But I just think that's such
a beautiful little practice, and it kind of is a
nice way into gratitude and would fill that balloon with
some nice things.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I love that, and it's something that I don't do.
I'm always like repeating my same gratitude list every morning,
you know, right, So introducing especially small things, I think
that's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's sweet.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So yeah, you know, I think that in addition to
gratitude and you know, kind of other positive emotions, we
have to really also focus on love because love is
such a beautiful antidote to fear. And I think that
with gratitude there's sort of a sense of love, but
naming it, naming love more directly, I think is a
(23:10):
really important way to approach this to you know, when
I am in my most fearful state, or I'm feeling
afraid about something, and sometimes for me, I get afraid
of things that are not even happened yet. Like I
just start to go down this track of a potential
outcome of a situation, and I think about it and
(23:31):
I start to imagine it, and I've pretty soon I've
got this whole stream of events that I'm now afraid
about happening, and it's all in my head. You know,
it's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Oh, it's I boy, I can relate. It's so true.
We create these stories and I'm like often ten steps
ahead of myself and I'm like, whoa car right?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
So I found that the really the best, sometimes the
only way to pull myself back from doing that is
through this idea of love. So I just sort of
when I can remember, I take a breath and I
just ask myself, what do I most love about this
(24:15):
moment this world? You know, if it's a if I've
kind of spun off about a certain situation, about that
situation or somebody in that situation or something, I just realized,
what do I love? And because typically there's the fear
is about losing something in that scenario or I'm afraid
of something happening to something I really value. So it
(24:38):
just refocuses me a little bit and it tends to
kind of calm me down and kind of shatters that
whole crazy illusion in story that I'm creating.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, I would agree, And for me, I have these
mantras like I'll just say, okay, Carolyn, let it go,
just let it go be in the moment. And I'm
doing this whole thing about inviting, like when you're spinning
Carolyn what are you inviting in? And is that what
you want to invite in right now? And so I
(25:09):
have this whole conversation with myself, as you know these
I like to talk to myself a lot. I'm a
really I'm a great conversationalist with myself.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, well we have that in common. And you know,
I mean, let's be real, Like I think, anxiety and
fear is very we all have it, and we're never
going to get rid of it completely. So it's it's
something I think we have to make peace with the
fact that we will experience. So really, what you and
I are talking about is acknowledging that, yes, we're going
to all have experiences of fear and anxiety. So let's
(25:40):
also be able to reach into our pocket and pull
out a strategy here and there, gratitude, awareness, love, inviting
in other things to just get ourselves out of that
state so we don't spin into really prolonged, protracted, disabling anxiety,
(26:00):
which I mean, let's be real. Let's look around the world.
There's a lot of anxiety and fear which are provoking violence,
are provoking a lot of things that are very hurtful
to others. So we're kind of all gripped in this
state of fear. And I think I would argue I
would go so far as to say that acknowledging our
fear on an individual level, and then as more of
(26:22):
us do this more and more doing it societally and
culturally and then globally, I think this is potentially the
key to living a peaceful, healthy life as a human species.
I mean it's very important.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree. And I know that things
are challenging, and you know, I go back to my
balloon because you know that I like the balloon. If
in fact, I've filled my balloon up with fear, I
always have the opportunity to let the air out of
that balloon and start again. And I think that's what
I'm going to do. I'm gonna, you know, if my
(27:01):
balloon is filled with fear, I'm going to let that
out and I'm gonna fill it up with love and
all of these other faith and hope, and you know,
letting things go and being in the moment, and that's
what's going to fill my balloon. And you know, we
can be there for each other too. I think that
if you know you and I I know we do this,
but if you have a friend that you see is
(27:24):
really spiraling into fear, is kind of stuck in some anxiety.
I think being somebody who expresses gratitude to them for
something that they give to you in your life, or
expressing your love for them just by example, or even
just sharing a moment of gratitude, you know, looking at something,
(27:44):
experiencing something. Together, we can support each other in this
effort as well. Yeah, that's where the compassion comes in,
compassion for ourselves and compassion for others. And you're right,
try to find that person and and get some support
for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
So, Carolyn, any last words of wisdom on this topic.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I love this topic, and I think what I love
most about it is that we do, in fact have
choice and we can we can do this transforming work.
I think that it is possible to transform fear into love,
and that's what I love about this.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
I agree. Yeah, I think that, you know, we try
to in this show give people hope and encouragement to
just take one little baby step. So even if it's
just practicing a little gratitude in a new way or
trying the different languaging that we've talked about using the
balloon in the box, whatever it is, just take one
little step and just see what happens in your life.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes, I agree, well Lis, this has been a great show.
Once again, I'd like to thank our wonderful sponsors pro
Thrivers Wellness, Sleep Immuse post Biotic to give your immune
system that extra boost, Cognizancetic Willing to help enhance memory,
focus and attention, and doctor here is award winning shelf
Stable Probiotics. Great show, Lise, I agree, what fun and
(29:10):
I hope that you have a beautiful day of gratitude
and love and that you listeners that you experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time to thrive everyone, have a
great night
Speaker 3 (29:35):
To see jas
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