May 11, 2023 • 28 mins
What should you eat if you have cancer? That's one of the most popular and important questions people diagnosed with cancer often ask. On this show, Karolyn talks with oncology nutrition expert Jess Higgins Kelley to find out how nutrition and diet can help you heal from cancer. As the founder and director of the Oncology Nutrition Institute, Jess helps train healthcare professionals. On this show, she'll talk about how food can help enhance health and healing.
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Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:42):
Carolyn Gazella and I co host fiveto Thrive Live with my good friend doctor
Lise Olschuler. Today we'll be talkingabout how to heal from cancer using nutrition.
But first I'd like to thank oursponsors. Amuse, a unique,
patented postbiotic that gives your immune systema key advantage. Muse is an ingredient
in many immune supporting dietary supplements.Look for a Muse on the label or
(01:04):
go to amusehealth dot com for moreinformation. Also cognizancedcoline, which is nature's
way of keeping the brain's energy producingcenters firing on all cylinders. If you're
looking for a way to enhance yourbrain function, including memory, focus,
and attention, look for Cognizen onthe label or go to Cognizan dot com
for more information. And doctor Oherra'sProbiotics. It's a best selling probiotic for
(01:26):
more than thirty years. It containstwelve probiotic strains that are shelf stable,
so no refrigeration is required because ofa unique three year fermentation process, It's
a very effective probiotic. Learn moreat doctor Ohero Probiotics dot com and for
more than thirty five years. GuyaErbs has extensive experience manufacturing high quality herbal
products for healthcare consumers and they havea dedicated product line named Gaya Pro tailored
(01:52):
to healthcare practitioners. Healthcare practitioners canlearn more at Gaya erbspro dot com and
consumers can visit Gaya Erbs dot com. Finally, Prothriver's Wellness Sleep, a
melotonein based sleep formula specifically created forthrivers. Pro Thrivers Sleep is available through
your healthcare provider or online at PureFormulas dot com. So with me today
(02:15):
is nutritionist Jess Higgins Kelly, whowas also an accomplished author and the founder
and director of the Oncology Nutrition Institute, where she teaches other healthcare professionals about
how to effectively use nutrition to healfrom cancer. Jess, thanks for joining
me. Thank you so much forhaving me. It's an Honor. Well,
(02:36):
before we dig into today's topic,I want our listeners to learn a
little bit more about you. You'vedevoted pretty much of your career to cancer
care. So why cancer and whyspecifically nutrition? Yeah, well, I
probably started back when I was akid and my dad was a respiratory therapist
who did home healthcare, and Iused to drive around with him and go
(02:58):
into people's houses or he hooked himup to oxygen tanks and there they were
still smoking cigarettes. And it wasreally a first and really powerful insight into
how how extreme addiction can be.And then fast forward, you know,
I got my undergrad degree in journalism, and you know, I'd always been
drawn to food, and after I'dbeen working in the world of outdoor sports,
(03:23):
I wanted to do something, youknow, learn about a therapeutic that
could help people, like respiratory therapy. So I got my MMT in Denver
and I went into what I kindof call family practice nutrition. And after
a number of years of bouncing betweenclients that you know, someone will come
in with weight loss, and thensomeone will come in with autoimmune and then
come in with a gut health anyway, I was seeing clients and writing the
(03:46):
metabolic approach the cancer book, andmy dad got diagnosed with GBM, which
is a stage four high grade braintumor, and so I really jumped two
feet into learning everything I could aboutnutrition and brain cancer. And you know,
looking around for any type of trainingand oncology nutrition, there's really nothing
unless you are a registered dietitian,in which case you could take an exam.
So, you know, fast forward, my dad was dying, I
(04:10):
was writing this book and started developingwhat's now the Oncology Nutrition Consulting Program,
which launched about six years ago,and here we are today. Yeah,
well, I'm sorry about your dad, Jess. I didn't know that,
and I know that's very, very, a very challenging cancer. Okay,
so so now let's talk about food. Let's really dig in, but just
in general, before we dig in, how do you respond when a cancer
(04:32):
survivor asks you what they should eator what diet they should follow. I
know, when doctor Elshuer and Iwere doing our book tours and everything,
that was like the top question,what diet? What should I eat?
You know, So how do youjust in general respond to that? Yeah,
you know, Karen, that's areally personal question. I'm joking.
(04:56):
You know, personal life nutrition reallyis everything, especially in the oncology field.
You know, we've learned that takingjust one sort of broad stroke diet
doesn't work. Esments are that ninetypercent of all quote unquote diet fails and
the goating answer here and it reallydrives our new students crazy. Is it
really depends so determining what type oftherapeutic nutrition interventions are the place to start.
(05:18):
There are so many factors age.You know, is it a child
or is it an elderly person.They could have a different basal metabolic rate,
are they overweight or underweight? Whattype of cancer did they have?
And is there a high rate ofrecurrence? You know, someone who had
a stage four brain cancer could havea different focus than someone recovering from,
(05:39):
say an early stage thyroid cancer.What treatments did they have? Do they
have side effects like neuropathy? Howabout digestive function? Are they on a
tube? Are they having bowel movementsor they nauseus? Are they experienced dysphasia?
I mean, there's just so manyfactors that you know, in order
to safely recommend mend dietary in anytype of the intervention, we really need
(06:04):
to learn a lot more about aperson. Yeah, and that's really where
it's at, and that's honestly whyyou're helping to train these healthcare professionals because
it is very personalized. And youmentioned your book. You wrote an entire
book on a metabolic approach to cancer. What is a metabolic approach to cancer?
(06:26):
Right? A metabolic approach uses therapeuticnutrition to affect the processes the bodies
used to convert food to energy,which is the definition of metabolits. So
in essence, it's just a nutritionapproach. So we're focusing on macronutrients,
micronutrients and other secondary metabolites that havebeen shown to positively impact the health and
(06:47):
function of the biological terrain. Youknow, food choices can either provoke a
cancer process or help to inhibit it. And the Metabolic Approached to Cancer book
really gets deep into what moods toavoid and buy. You know, why
should you avoid sugar and why shouldyou focus on nutrient dense, anti inflammatory
foods like spinach. You know,the evidence is there and that's what was
(07:11):
really exciting about writing this book wasall the research that was out there.
And you know, one example intwenty fifteen something super extraordinary was published in
the review journal Seminars of Cancer Biologytitled Designing a Broad Spectrum Integrative Approach for
Cancer Prevention and Treatment, and itwas an international task force of one hundred
(07:33):
and eighty biochemical and medical researchers andscientists, and it was led by doctor
Keith Block. I'm sure you're familiar, you know his pioneering book just like
yours, Life Over Cancer, backin twenty two thousand and nine. But
they they identified a lot of lowtoxicity, nutrition specific approaches that could target
(07:57):
the hallmarks of cancer, which arethe wide the accepted ten anti cancer defense
mechanisms that are hardwired into ourselves.And you know, they found really exciting
evidence to support thinks like vitamin Dor you know, when it comes to
genomic instability or for tissue invasion andmetastasis. You know, the combination between
(08:22):
mushroom derivatives like from a Garius blasecombined with you know, EPA to have
the potential to inhibit metastasis. Andso, you know, the data was
there and that was a big thrustof the book is to bring nutrition and
a focus on metabolic function into theforefront. Is the key therapeutic modality and
(08:43):
cancer prevention and management, because Imean, we know that nutrition matters,
right, So it's a metabolic approachof nutrition basically. And I love that
too, Jess. I mean asa as an author and a writer,
I love the fact that there's researchto substantiate these things, and the research
is continuing to grow. I mean, I'm in the research journals on a
(09:07):
weekly basis, and I love it. They're like finding kernels of gold when
you when you are run across thesestudies. Oh, I would get so
excited reading these papers that I'm goingthrough now, and it's, you know,
stuff that we were reading six sevenyears ago. It's been updated now
today, twenty twenty, twenty twentyone, twenty twenty two. You know
in some of these bigger journals wherewe're seeing we've gone from test tubes to
(09:31):
animals and now we're seeing some humantrials. And I think, you know,
in the nutrition world, that's justreally exciting for us because it's becoming
substantiated in the evidence, which iswhat we really need to be speaking with
oncologists and working safely, you knowwith this population is critical that we're following
the data. Yeah. Absolutely,Another thing that we talk a lot about
(09:54):
and I write a lot about isthe meta tranean diet. What are your
thoughts on the Mediterranean diet? Yeah, hands down. You know, there's
the most data out there pointing tothe Mediterranean diet as the best baseline disease
prevention diet across the board. Ithink it won the best diet again in
twenty twenty three by the US Newsand World Report. It's considered one of
(10:15):
the most healthy dietary patterns, andmainly because of the combination of foods really
rich in antioxidants and anti inflammatory nutrients. And I love it for cancer prevention.
I mean, the focus on allthese incredible herbs and clean fish and
good oils, and you know,just quickly on oils. One place I
find that people can get a littlebit off track is with something as simple
(10:39):
as salad dressing. I mean,you probably hear this all the time,
people say, oh my gosh,I eat so healthy, But what you
know, we're not really realizing isthat even an organic salad dressing could be
using inflammatory oils, you know.And so what I love about the Mediterranean
diet is and probably either the reasonit's been identified is the Health Center post
(11:03):
of the Mediterranean diet is olive oilbecause of all the polythenos like apigenin and
ludiolin, and you know they've allbeen shown to the antioxidants and anti inflammatory
and nutrients. So yes, theMediterranean diet great focus, really chemopreventative herbs
and oils and yeah, big fanhealthy fats. Yeah, I love it.
(11:24):
I'm trying to. I'm trying todefinitely focus on that in my own
life right now and really focus oncooking and eating more exclusively Mediterranean. You
know. Another thing that I've beenfollowing is the research on ultra processed foods,
and I think sometimes it's it's asimportant to talk about what not to
eat as it is what to eat. What are your thoughts on the research
(11:48):
associated with ultraprocessed foods and ultra processedfoods in general. Yeah, processed foods
I think now is responsible for morecancer cases today than cigarettes. It's processed
foods. They're toxic, they're addictive, they're not really food. It's more
(12:09):
chemical based that the body doesn't recognize. You don't really have enzymes or detox
pathways sort of designed for you know, processed foods. Cheap it's fast,
it's legal, so like cigarettes havebeen, and it's a smoking addiction of
today. So that's the thing isthat these highly processed foods, they're addictive.
So you know, I said earlierabout getting this insight into how smoking.
(12:31):
You know, people can they knowhow bad some of these processed foods
are, but they still going,you know, keep eating them. So
it seems like a no brainer thatno processed foods should come with warning labels,
I versus this massive marketing push andmisleading health creams. You know,
it's hard to believe that a breakfastcereal that contains sugar, corn starch,
(12:54):
and canola oil could lower your cholesterol. You know, And I just you
know, I just moving through thistoday. I'm working another presentation this food
marketing story. Maybe you're familiar withit, but during the Great Depression,
the cartoonist ec Seeger who picks spinachto give to Popeye as who's you know,
give them like a superhuman powers.So you know, it's during the
(13:16):
Great Depression, and as soon asPopeye came out, the consumption of spirits
to the US skyrocketed by like thirtythree percent. And the most remarkable thing
is that children surveyed at that timelisted spinaches their third favorite food, and
so cancer prevention has to start withkids. And I'm like, why can't
(13:37):
we see some of these marketing campaignsgeared towards vegetables instead of all this processed
food. I mean, it's it'sjust fub sad. So, yeah,
it's the processed food. If youdon't know what it is, it's a
chemical label. I mean, thefurther we've gotten away from a whole foods,
you know, Mediterranean diet, youknow, the more our health has
(13:58):
declined. So yeah, not advice, right, yeah, And a big
source of processed foods are fast foodrestaurants. Yeah right, Yeah, give
us some examples of processed foods,like I know, soda pop and m
are there ones that are surprising toyou, Like somebody told me, um
(14:22):
the other day that um, theyeat a lot of granola bars. Um.
But yeah, I know, right, So talk to us a little
bit about that. Give us someexamples. Sure, you know, I
think that the first place to start, you know, start in the morning
with what people are eating for breakfast. So these cereals, So any time
(14:43):
you're getting anything out of a boxor a package and you have to read
a label and there's you know,ingredients on the labels that say, you
know, added to preserve freshness,or chemical names you don't understand. You
know, a lot of these breakfastcereals and are I was mentioning earlier,
a lot of these they have thesefalse health misleading health claims on them,
(15:03):
like lower's cholesterol. You know,I don't want to name any name brands,
but you know, breakfast cereals area big one. You know,
people say, oh, I hada piece of avocado toast, that must
be healthy. Well you really haveto look at the toast, so your
bread should get moldy after a coupledays or a week, you know.
And a lot of these shelf stablefoods that are you're like, wow,
(15:26):
they have an expiration date that's prettyfar out and they're not in the refrigerator.
You know, you can put avocado, which is wonderful, on a
piece of toast, but if thetoast has a lot of inflammatory oils and
sugar, you know, it maynegate it a little bit. So those
I think breads were you know itmight say whole grain or you know what
(15:48):
I mean. I think that peoplesay oh wow, yeah, no,
whole grains good and they choose that, So I think that that can be
really misleading. Breakfast cereals, thesegranolas, I think, any type of
bar. You know, it's it'ssort of it's misleading. You know,
we've gotten so in this overeaten mentality, and I see it a lot with
a pediatric population, like, oh, gotta make sure you have a snack,
(16:11):
have a snack, have a snack. We don't need snacks, you
have a mini meal. So alot of these snacks foods that we get
marketed are a really processed. Ithink coffee drinks. You know, they
say we get a lot of oursugar and our calories from drinks. So
if you're like, well i'm alittle sleepy, I'm going to go through
(16:32):
and get you know, a latteor something, you could be getting exposed
to all sorts of different chemicals andprocessed foods. So you know, chips,
candy, soda, bread, anythingthat comes in a box or a
bag that has a label is youknow, could be processed to some extent.
And of course, you know goingthrough the drive through, which is
(16:52):
challenging for families. I mean,it's fast, it's cheap. Everybody's busy,
they're burnt out. It's you know, it's easy default. You can
see why. And then it's gotthis lovely combination of sugar and fat and
oils that you know, our brainsare like young dopamine. We get addicted
to it, and you know,we keep going back for you know,
(17:12):
for more, you know, microwavedinners, these different kind of instance,
through anything instant. You know,the slow food movements so beautiful because anything
that's fast and cheap, it couldbe processed though. Yeah, yeah,
And the other thing about all theseprocessed foods is they cause weight gain.
So I do want to talk aboutweight gain. And I'm so glad that
(17:34):
you mentioned children because I read astatistic the other day from I think it
was the CDC or somebody said thatif a child is overweight by age five,
that's very young. They have amuch much higher chance of being an
overweight teen, and overweight young adult, and an overweight adult, and then
they have all the risk factors associatedwith obesity. So so weight loss is
(17:56):
something I want to focus a littlebit of time on. You know,
it's been in the news a lotlately with all of these new prescription medications
coming out and I've actually written anarticle for integrative Practitioner. I've been following
this really closely. I have alot of concerns, So how do you
help your clients lose weight safely withoutresorting to some of these extreme drugs?
(18:25):
Right? Yeah, So weight managementis so critical in any case, and
it's a huge part of what weteach our students. And you know,
some people need help keeping weight onand some people need to lose weight.
And I think, you know,the number one place to start is you
know, know thyself. So wedeveloped a basil metabolic rate and caloric calculators
(18:49):
that's actually free us on our website. But we need to determine target caloric
goals for an individual, a sortof the first priority, and then pre
sort of a macronutrient framework around that. You know, so many people have
no idea how many calories if theyconsume in a day, and a calories,
not a calories, a calorie.But you know, I think a
(19:11):
great place for folks to start isjust calling awareness to what they're consuming and
how that translates into a little bitof data. You know, wow,
ate five thousand calories today. Ihad no idea how fast it adds up,
so you know, just starting totrack. You know, we like
programming a chronometer or some of theseother things you can plug your your daily
(19:33):
food log into and just see,you know, just get a sense of
where you're at right now. Andyou know, a healthy, sustainable weight
loss is around two pounds a week. But I can tell you that a
lot of people who start on likea Whole Foods sort of anti inflammatory diet,
they can lose a lot of weightreally fast, like ten to fifteen
(19:53):
pounds fast, and that freaks peopleout. But a lot of times,
you know it's inflammation and that peopleare losing, and you know, it's
sort of just a general guide post. You know, we want people to
be sort of around the weight andsitness level they were when they graduated high
school. That's when most people weresort of at their metabolic you know venus
of health and UM and so ofcourse with cancer is the concern about cachexia.
(20:18):
You know, the image of thereally underweight UM. You know,
cancertia. It's really scary, soum, you know, we need to
be looking at cachexia labs. UM. You know, before we start any
type of weight loss program with someone, you know, especially folks who are
eating a standard American diet and youknow, they may have a lot of
(20:41):
inflammation. Um, it's really importantto sort of start low and slow.
Um. You know. Unfortunately,a lot of you know, the most
common advice that we hear is thatpeople say, oh, you know,
I asked my doctor, my oncologistwhat to eat, and they say,
eat whatever you want, just don'tlose weight. And it's like, oh,
no, you know, we havewe have to sort of change that.
(21:03):
That's sort of trajectory. But um, you know, safe weight loss
there again, there's there's a lotto it. We have whole classes dedicated
to doing it safely and making surethat, you know, people are sort
of following some guidelines so that thingsdon't happen too fat. You know,
As you know, there's so manydifferent toxins that can be stored in those
(21:25):
adipose tissues. So if you getpeople losing weight really fast, they can
get fairly sick. It's sort ofa bit of a toxin release in some
cases. So you want to makesure people are you know, their digestion
is good, they're they're pooping,and um, you know, there's just
a lot of things, a lotto that weight management part. Yeah.
(21:47):
Absolutely, And yeah, you bringup some great points, especially about the
cachexia, because that that weight lossleads to muscle wasting and it's very dangerous
and um so you know, peopleneed to be aware of that. You
know, obesity is a significant riskfactor for cancer. And what you're mentioning
is spot on because fat tissue isvery inflammatory. Um. You know,
(22:14):
in the scientific literature, fat tissueis referred to as a whole nother endocrine
organism. It's very dynamic and ithas hormonal implications. And so I think
it's I think it's really good thatyou know, you're you're focusing on that
with your educational process. There.Yeah, there's a lot to all of
(22:36):
this beyond sort of just these broadstrokes that we hear. You know,
we see it a lot in theoncology nutrition world. You know also too
when it comes to dietary therapy.It's like, you know, ketogetic diets
the only way, or vegan dietsthe only way, or you know,
we're we're pigeonholing ourselves into these justwe need to become more personalized. We
(22:56):
need to do a lot more assessmentsthan the individual in order to make nutritions
therapy safe and effective. And that'sreally what our aim is on the education
front. So yeah, yeah,and I know, I know it's a
very personalized approach that you and thatyour in your institute take. Talk a
little bit about keto. What what'syour what's your thoughts on keto? Because
honestly a lot of people are askingabout keto and and there's some some pretty
(23:21):
solid research, but what what's yourview on keto? Right? So,
you know, where we were talkingabout, the Mediterranean diet is really just
a wonderful preventative recovery diet. There'syou know, a lot of therapeutic diet
modalities out there. So the ketogenicdiet is one most evidence there for brain
cancer. So you know, hey, someone's better brain cancer process going on.
(23:45):
We're probably you know, going toconsider that after we test a few
different things. You know, ketogenicdiet is not for everyone. There's there's
genetics for some people where they can'tprocess that hive of fat diet. You
know, we have people who areon a tube feed that a ketogenic diet
through too not a good idea,especially if they're constipated. You know,
(24:07):
we teach low FOD maps, weteach gaps, we teach AIP, we
teach you know, so many there'sso many different therapeutic diets. And I
love the ketogenic diet just because braincancer is really what got me into oncology.
But I don't think it's the endall, be all, and I
think that we need to make surethat, you know, just like any
(24:29):
any therapy, you know, youget someone going on it, and they
check in and run some markers aftera few months and see what's going on
and if it's really working, andif it's not, then we change direction.
It's just I see so many peoplegetting just shoved into these dietary therapies
and sticking with it when it's whenit's maybe backfiring on them. So I
(24:51):
think we need to use caution inany type of dietary therapy. Yeah,
yeah, I would agree. Nowyou mentioned the BMI calculator that's on your
website. Which website is that,Yeah, the Oncology Nutrition Institute dot com,
So you can you know, tryingto assess someone's basil metabolic rate is
(25:11):
just a good place to start withweight management, so you can plug in,
you know, your height, weightactivity level, that kind of thing
age and then it gives you,you know, your basic calories that you're
going to need a date to maintainyour weight, and then from there you
can adjust the percentages if you wantto gain weight or lose weight, and
(25:33):
then if you want to do aketogenic diet, it kind of auto populates
into a sort of a ketogenic dietformula. We have a more comprehensive calculator
for our students and grads that sortof know how to manipulate these formulas a
little bit, but just a stonestarting out, and they're like, you
know, when I was practicing,I don't see clients anymore, but you
know, I'd be trying to figureout with a client like Okay, these
are caloric goals for the day,and there just wasn't a good calculator out
(25:56):
there for you to kind of doit in real time. So I wanted
to have a tool for petitioners touse on the fly. So yeah,
and is there do you have awebsite where they where our listeners can find
out more about you and your bookand um all about your work. Yeah,
the best spot for that is theOncology and Nutrition Institute dot com.
(26:18):
We've got some free and small feed, public and practitioner trainings there that calculators
there, our news lists, Carol, as you go, we're trying to
get that, you know, kindof more going, but getting good information
out there every month and then youknow, everything coming out about social media.
I've always been pretty adverse to socialmedia, but if you want to
(26:38):
find us, we're most active onlinked In. We have a student group
on there, we have a schoolpage, so those are are are kind
of the two spots. Okay,perfect, Well, this has been great,
Jess. Thank you so much forjoining me in and thank you for
sharing this information because we know thatnutrition can help people heal from answer.
(27:00):
It's so critical and I'm so gladthat you're doing your work at the Oncology
Nutrition Institute, So thank you somuch for joining me. Well, that
wraps up this episode of Five toThrive Live once again. I'd like to
thank our sponsors. Amused postbiotic togive your immune system that extra boost,
Cognizancecholine to help enhance memory, focusat attention doctor or Here is award winning
(27:22):
shelf stable probiotic dia herbs, makersof exceptional quality herbal products and pro thrivers
Wellness sleep formula. Thanks for joiningus. Everyone. May you experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time tothrive. Everyone, have a great night.
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Hello everyone, andwelcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
(00:42):
Carolyn Gazella and I co host fiveto Thrive Live with my good friend doctor
Lise Olschuler. Today we'll be talkingabout how to heal from cancer using nutrition.
But first I'd like to thank oursponsors. Amuse, a unique,
patented postbiotic that gives your immune systema key advantage. Muse is an ingredient
in many immune supporting dietary supplements.Look for a Muse on the label or
(01:04):
go to amusehealth dot com for moreinformation. Also cognizancedcoline, which is nature's
way of keeping the brain's energy producingcenters firing on all cylinders. If you're
looking for a way to enhance yourbrain function, including memory, focus,
and attention, look for Cognizen onthe label or go to Cognizan dot com
for more information. And doctor Oherra'sProbiotics. It's a best selling probiotic for
(01:26):
more than thirty years. It containstwelve probiotic strains that are shelf stable,
so no refrigeration is required because ofa unique three year fermentation process, It's
a very effective probiotic. Learn moreat doctor Ohero Probiotics dot com and for
more than thirty five years. GuyaErbs has extensive experience manufacturing high quality herbal
products for healthcare consumers and they havea dedicated product line named Gaya Pro tailored
(01:52):
to healthcare practitioners. Healthcare practitioners canlearn more at Gaya erbspro dot com and
consumers can visit Gaya Erbs dot com. Finally, Prothriver's Wellness Sleep, a
melotonein based sleep formula specifically created forthrivers. Pro Thrivers Sleep is available through
your healthcare provider or online at PureFormulas dot com. So with me today
(02:15):
is nutritionist Jess Higgins Kelly, whowas also an accomplished author and the founder
and director of the Oncology Nutrition Institute, where she teaches other healthcare professionals about
how to effectively use nutrition to healfrom cancer. Jess, thanks for joining
me. Thank you so much forhaving me. It's an Honor. Well,
(02:36):
before we dig into today's topic,I want our listeners to learn a
little bit more about you. You'vedevoted pretty much of your career to cancer
care. So why cancer and whyspecifically nutrition? Yeah, well, I
probably started back when I was akid and my dad was a respiratory therapist
who did home healthcare, and Iused to drive around with him and go
(02:58):
into people's houses or he hooked himup to oxygen tanks and there they were
still smoking cigarettes. And it wasreally a first and really powerful insight into
how how extreme addiction can be.And then fast forward, you know,
I got my undergrad degree in journalism, and you know, I'd always been
drawn to food, and after I'dbeen working in the world of outdoor sports,
(03:23):
I wanted to do something, youknow, learn about a therapeutic that
could help people, like respiratory therapy. So I got my MMT in Denver
and I went into what I kindof call family practice nutrition. And after
a number of years of bouncing betweenclients that you know, someone will come
in with weight loss, and thensomeone will come in with autoimmune and then
come in with a gut health anyway, I was seeing clients and writing the
(03:46):
metabolic approach the cancer book, andmy dad got diagnosed with GBM, which
is a stage four high grade braintumor, and so I really jumped two
feet into learning everything I could aboutnutrition and brain cancer. And you know,
looking around for any type of trainingand oncology nutrition, there's really nothing
unless you are a registered dietitian,in which case you could take an exam.
So, you know, fast forward, my dad was dying, I
(04:10):
was writing this book and started developingwhat's now the Oncology Nutrition Consulting Program,
which launched about six years ago,and here we are today. Yeah,
well, I'm sorry about your dad, Jess. I didn't know that,
and I know that's very, very, a very challenging cancer. Okay,
so so now let's talk about food. Let's really dig in, but just
in general, before we dig in, how do you respond when a cancer
(04:32):
survivor asks you what they should eator what diet they should follow. I
know, when doctor Elshuer and Iwere doing our book tours and everything,
that was like the top question,what diet? What should I eat?
You know, So how do youjust in general respond to that? Yeah,
you know, Karen, that's areally personal question. I'm joking.
(04:56):
You know, personal life nutrition reallyis everything, especially in the oncology field.
You know, we've learned that takingjust one sort of broad stroke diet
doesn't work. Esments are that ninetypercent of all quote unquote diet fails and
the goating answer here and it reallydrives our new students crazy. Is it
really depends so determining what type oftherapeutic nutrition interventions are the place to start.
(05:18):
There are so many factors age.You know, is it a child
or is it an elderly person.They could have a different basal metabolic rate,
are they overweight or underweight? Whattype of cancer did they have?
And is there a high rate ofrecurrence? You know, someone who had
a stage four brain cancer could havea different focus than someone recovering from,
(05:39):
say an early stage thyroid cancer.What treatments did they have? Do they
have side effects like neuropathy? Howabout digestive function? Are they on a
tube? Are they having bowel movementsor they nauseus? Are they experienced dysphasia?
I mean, there's just so manyfactors that you know, in order
to safely recommend mend dietary in anytype of the intervention, we really need
(06:04):
to learn a lot more about aperson. Yeah, and that's really where
it's at, and that's honestly whyyou're helping to train these healthcare professionals because
it is very personalized. And youmentioned your book. You wrote an entire
book on a metabolic approach to cancer. What is a metabolic approach to cancer?
(06:26):
Right? A metabolic approach uses therapeuticnutrition to affect the processes the bodies
used to convert food to energy,which is the definition of metabolits. So
in essence, it's just a nutritionapproach. So we're focusing on macronutrients,
micronutrients and other secondary metabolites that havebeen shown to positively impact the health and
(06:47):
function of the biological terrain. Youknow, food choices can either provoke a
cancer process or help to inhibit it. And the Metabolic Approached to Cancer book
really gets deep into what moods toavoid and buy. You know, why
should you avoid sugar and why shouldyou focus on nutrient dense, anti inflammatory
foods like spinach. You know,the evidence is there and that's what was
(07:11):
really exciting about writing this book wasall the research that was out there.
And you know, one example intwenty fifteen something super extraordinary was published in
the review journal Seminars of Cancer Biologytitled Designing a Broad Spectrum Integrative Approach for
Cancer Prevention and Treatment, and itwas an international task force of one hundred
(07:33):
and eighty biochemical and medical researchers andscientists, and it was led by doctor
Keith Block. I'm sure you're familiar, you know his pioneering book just like
yours, Life Over Cancer, backin twenty two thousand and nine. But
they they identified a lot of lowtoxicity, nutrition specific approaches that could target
(07:57):
the hallmarks of cancer, which arethe wide the accepted ten anti cancer defense
mechanisms that are hardwired into ourselves.And you know, they found really exciting
evidence to support thinks like vitamin Dor you know, when it comes to
genomic instability or for tissue invasion andmetastasis. You know, the combination between
(08:22):
mushroom derivatives like from a Garius blasecombined with you know, EPA to have
the potential to inhibit metastasis. Andso, you know, the data was
there and that was a big thrustof the book is to bring nutrition and
a focus on metabolic function into theforefront. Is the key therapeutic modality and
(08:43):
cancer prevention and management, because Imean, we know that nutrition matters,
right, So it's a metabolic approachof nutrition basically. And I love that
too, Jess. I mean asa as an author and a writer,
I love the fact that there's researchto substantiate these things, and the research
is continuing to grow. I mean, I'm in the research journals on a
(09:07):
weekly basis, and I love it. They're like finding kernels of gold when
you when you are run across thesestudies. Oh, I would get so
excited reading these papers that I'm goingthrough now, and it's, you know,
stuff that we were reading six sevenyears ago. It's been updated now
today, twenty twenty, twenty twentyone, twenty twenty two. You know
in some of these bigger journals wherewe're seeing we've gone from test tubes to
(09:31):
animals and now we're seeing some humantrials. And I think, you know,
in the nutrition world, that's justreally exciting for us because it's becoming
substantiated in the evidence, which iswhat we really need to be speaking with
oncologists and working safely, you knowwith this population is critical that we're following
the data. Yeah. Absolutely,Another thing that we talk a lot about
(09:54):
and I write a lot about isthe meta tranean diet. What are your
thoughts on the Mediterranean diet? Yeah, hands down. You know, there's
the most data out there pointing tothe Mediterranean diet as the best baseline disease
prevention diet across the board. Ithink it won the best diet again in
twenty twenty three by the US Newsand World Report. It's considered one of
(10:15):
the most healthy dietary patterns, andmainly because of the combination of foods really
rich in antioxidants and anti inflammatory nutrients. And I love it for cancer prevention.
I mean, the focus on allthese incredible herbs and clean fish and
good oils, and you know,just quickly on oils. One place I
find that people can get a littlebit off track is with something as simple
(10:39):
as salad dressing. I mean,you probably hear this all the time,
people say, oh my gosh,I eat so healthy, But what you
know, we're not really realizing isthat even an organic salad dressing could be
using inflammatory oils, you know.And so what I love about the Mediterranean
diet is and probably either the reasonit's been identified is the Health Center post
(11:03):
of the Mediterranean diet is olive oilbecause of all the polythenos like apigenin and
ludiolin, and you know they've allbeen shown to the antioxidants and anti inflammatory
and nutrients. So yes, theMediterranean diet great focus, really chemopreventative herbs
and oils and yeah, big fanhealthy fats. Yeah, I love it.
(11:24):
I'm trying to. I'm trying todefinitely focus on that in my own
life right now and really focus oncooking and eating more exclusively Mediterranean. You
know. Another thing that I've beenfollowing is the research on ultra processed foods,
and I think sometimes it's it's asimportant to talk about what not to
eat as it is what to eat. What are your thoughts on the research
(11:48):
associated with ultraprocessed foods and ultra processedfoods in general. Yeah, processed foods
I think now is responsible for morecancer cases today than cigarettes. It's processed
foods. They're toxic, they're addictive, they're not really food. It's more
(12:09):
chemical based that the body doesn't recognize. You don't really have enzymes or detox
pathways sort of designed for you know, processed foods. Cheap it's fast,
it's legal, so like cigarettes havebeen, and it's a smoking addiction of
today. So that's the thing isthat these highly processed foods, they're addictive.
So you know, I said earlierabout getting this insight into how smoking.
(12:31):
You know, people can they knowhow bad some of these processed foods
are, but they still going,you know, keep eating them. So
it seems like a no brainer thatno processed foods should come with warning labels,
I versus this massive marketing push andmisleading health creams. You know,
it's hard to believe that a breakfastcereal that contains sugar, corn starch,
(12:54):
and canola oil could lower your cholesterol. You know, And I just you
know, I just moving through thistoday. I'm working another presentation this food
marketing story. Maybe you're familiar withit, but during the Great Depression,
the cartoonist ec Seeger who picks spinachto give to Popeye as who's you know,
give them like a superhuman powers.So you know, it's during the
(13:16):
Great Depression, and as soon asPopeye came out, the consumption of spirits
to the US skyrocketed by like thirtythree percent. And the most remarkable thing
is that children surveyed at that timelisted spinaches their third favorite food, and
so cancer prevention has to start withkids. And I'm like, why can't
(13:37):
we see some of these marketing campaignsgeared towards vegetables instead of all this processed
food. I mean, it's it'sjust fub sad. So, yeah,
it's the processed food. If youdon't know what it is, it's a
chemical label. I mean, thefurther we've gotten away from a whole foods,
you know, Mediterranean diet, youknow, the more our health has
(13:58):
declined. So yeah, not advice, right, yeah, And a big
source of processed foods are fast foodrestaurants. Yeah right, Yeah, give
us some examples of processed foods,like I know, soda pop and m
are there ones that are surprising toyou, Like somebody told me, um
(14:22):
the other day that um, theyeat a lot of granola bars. Um.
But yeah, I know, right, So talk to us a little
bit about that. Give us someexamples. Sure, you know, I
think that the first place to start, you know, start in the morning
with what people are eating for breakfast. So these cereals, So any time
(14:43):
you're getting anything out of a boxor a package and you have to read
a label and there's you know,ingredients on the labels that say, you
know, added to preserve freshness,or chemical names you don't understand. You
know, a lot of these breakfastcereals and are I was mentioning earlier,
a lot of these they have thesefalse health misleading health claims on them,
(15:03):
like lower's cholesterol. You know,I don't want to name any name brands,
but you know, breakfast cereals area big one. You know,
people say, oh, I hada piece of avocado toast, that must
be healthy. Well you really haveto look at the toast, so your
bread should get moldy after a coupledays or a week, you know.
And a lot of these shelf stablefoods that are you're like, wow,
(15:26):
they have an expiration date that's prettyfar out and they're not in the refrigerator.
You know, you can put avocado, which is wonderful, on a
piece of toast, but if thetoast has a lot of inflammatory oils and
sugar, you know, it maynegate it a little bit. So those
I think breads were you know itmight say whole grain or you know what
(15:48):
I mean. I think that peoplesay oh wow, yeah, no,
whole grains good and they choose that, So I think that that can be
really misleading. Breakfast cereals, thesegranolas, I think, any type of
bar. You know, it's it'ssort of it's misleading. You know,
we've gotten so in this overeaten mentality, and I see it a lot with
a pediatric population, like, oh, gotta make sure you have a snack,
(16:11):
have a snack, have a snack. We don't need snacks, you
have a mini meal. So alot of these snacks foods that we get
marketed are a really processed. Ithink coffee drinks. You know, they
say we get a lot of oursugar and our calories from drinks. So
if you're like, well i'm alittle sleepy, I'm going to go through
(16:32):
and get you know, a latteor something, you could be getting exposed
to all sorts of different chemicals andprocessed foods. So you know, chips,
candy, soda, bread, anythingthat comes in a box or a
bag that has a label is youknow, could be processed to some extent.
And of course, you know goingthrough the drive through, which is
(16:52):
challenging for families. I mean,it's fast, it's cheap. Everybody's busy,
they're burnt out. It's you know, it's easy default. You can
see why. And then it's gotthis lovely combination of sugar and fat and
oils that you know, our brainsare like young dopamine. We get addicted
to it, and you know,we keep going back for you know,
(17:12):
for more, you know, microwavedinners, these different kind of instance,
through anything instant. You know,the slow food movements so beautiful because anything
that's fast and cheap, it couldbe processed though. Yeah, yeah,
And the other thing about all theseprocessed foods is they cause weight gain.
So I do want to talk aboutweight gain. And I'm so glad that
(17:34):
you mentioned children because I read astatistic the other day from I think it
was the CDC or somebody said thatif a child is overweight by age five,
that's very young. They have amuch much higher chance of being an
overweight teen, and overweight young adult, and an overweight adult, and then
they have all the risk factors associatedwith obesity. So so weight loss is
(17:56):
something I want to focus a littlebit of time on. You know,
it's been in the news a lotlately with all of these new prescription medications
coming out and I've actually written anarticle for integrative Practitioner. I've been following
this really closely. I have alot of concerns, So how do you
help your clients lose weight safely withoutresorting to some of these extreme drugs?
(18:25):
Right? Yeah, So weight managementis so critical in any case, and
it's a huge part of what weteach our students. And you know,
some people need help keeping weight onand some people need to lose weight.
And I think, you know,the number one place to start is you
know, know thyself. So wedeveloped a basil metabolic rate and caloric calculators
(18:49):
that's actually free us on our website. But we need to determine target caloric
goals for an individual, a sortof the first priority, and then pre
sort of a macronutrient framework around that. You know, so many people have
no idea how many calories if theyconsume in a day, and a calories,
not a calories, a calorie.But you know, I think a
(19:11):
great place for folks to start isjust calling awareness to what they're consuming and
how that translates into a little bitof data. You know, wow,
ate five thousand calories today. Ihad no idea how fast it adds up,
so you know, just starting totrack. You know, we like
programming a chronometer or some of theseother things you can plug your your daily
(19:33):
food log into and just see,you know, just get a sense of
where you're at right now. Andyou know, a healthy, sustainable weight
loss is around two pounds a week. But I can tell you that a
lot of people who start on likea Whole Foods sort of anti inflammatory diet,
they can lose a lot of weightreally fast, like ten to fifteen
(19:53):
pounds fast, and that freaks peopleout. But a lot of times,
you know it's inflammation and that peopleare losing, and you know, it's
sort of just a general guide post. You know, we want people to
be sort of around the weight andsitness level they were when they graduated high
school. That's when most people weresort of at their metabolic you know venus
of health and UM and so ofcourse with cancer is the concern about cachexia.
(20:18):
You know, the image of thereally underweight UM. You know,
cancertia. It's really scary, soum, you know, we need to
be looking at cachexia labs. UM. You know, before we start any
type of weight loss program with someone, you know, especially folks who are
eating a standard American diet and youknow, they may have a lot of
(20:41):
inflammation. Um, it's really importantto sort of start low and slow.
Um. You know. Unfortunately,a lot of you know, the most
common advice that we hear is thatpeople say, oh, you know,
I asked my doctor, my oncologistwhat to eat, and they say,
eat whatever you want, just don'tlose weight. And it's like, oh,
no, you know, we havewe have to sort of change that.
(21:03):
That's sort of trajectory. But um, you know, safe weight loss
there again, there's there's a lotto it. We have whole classes dedicated
to doing it safely and making surethat, you know, people are sort
of following some guidelines so that thingsdon't happen too fat. You know,
As you know, there's so manydifferent toxins that can be stored in those
(21:25):
adipose tissues. So if you getpeople losing weight really fast, they can
get fairly sick. It's sort ofa bit of a toxin release in some
cases. So you want to makesure people are you know, their digestion
is good, they're they're pooping,and um, you know, there's just
a lot of things, a lotto that weight management part. Yeah.
(21:47):
Absolutely, And yeah, you bringup some great points, especially about the
cachexia, because that that weight lossleads to muscle wasting and it's very dangerous
and um so you know, peopleneed to be aware of that. You
know, obesity is a significant riskfactor for cancer. And what you're mentioning
is spot on because fat tissue isvery inflammatory. Um. You know,
(22:14):
in the scientific literature, fat tissueis referred to as a whole nother endocrine
organism. It's very dynamic and ithas hormonal implications. And so I think
it's I think it's really good thatyou know, you're you're focusing on that
with your educational process. There.Yeah, there's a lot to all of
(22:36):
this beyond sort of just these broadstrokes that we hear. You know,
we see it a lot in theoncology nutrition world. You know also too
when it comes to dietary therapy.It's like, you know, ketogetic diets
the only way, or vegan dietsthe only way, or you know,
we're we're pigeonholing ourselves into these justwe need to become more personalized. We
(22:56):
need to do a lot more assessmentsthan the individual in order to make nutritions
therapy safe and effective. And that'sreally what our aim is on the education
front. So yeah, yeah,and I know, I know it's a
very personalized approach that you and thatyour in your institute take. Talk a
little bit about keto. What what'syour what's your thoughts on keto? Because
honestly a lot of people are askingabout keto and and there's some some pretty
(23:21):
solid research, but what what's yourview on keto? Right? So,
you know, where we were talkingabout, the Mediterranean diet is really just
a wonderful preventative recovery diet. There'syou know, a lot of therapeutic diet
modalities out there. So the ketogenicdiet is one most evidence there for brain
cancer. So you know, hey, someone's better brain cancer process going on.
(23:45):
We're probably you know, going toconsider that after we test a few
different things. You know, ketogenicdiet is not for everyone. There's there's
genetics for some people where they can'tprocess that hive of fat diet. You
know, we have people who areon a tube feed that a ketogenic diet
through too not a good idea,especially if they're constipated. You know,
(24:07):
we teach low FOD maps, weteach gaps, we teach AIP, we
teach you know, so many there'sso many different therapeutic diets. And I
love the ketogenic diet just because braincancer is really what got me into oncology.
But I don't think it's the endall, be all, and I
think that we need to make surethat, you know, just like any
(24:29):
any therapy, you know, youget someone going on it, and they
check in and run some markers aftera few months and see what's going on
and if it's really working, andif it's not, then we change direction.
It's just I see so many peoplegetting just shoved into these dietary therapies
and sticking with it when it's whenit's maybe backfiring on them. So I
(24:51):
think we need to use caution inany type of dietary therapy. Yeah,
yeah, I would agree. Nowyou mentioned the BMI calculator that's on your
website. Which website is that,Yeah, the Oncology Nutrition Institute dot com,
So you can you know, tryingto assess someone's basil metabolic rate is
(25:11):
just a good place to start withweight management, so you can plug in,
you know, your height, weightactivity level, that kind of thing
age and then it gives you,you know, your basic calories that you're
going to need a date to maintainyour weight, and then from there you
can adjust the percentages if you wantto gain weight or lose weight, and
(25:33):
then if you want to do aketogenic diet, it kind of auto populates
into a sort of a ketogenic dietformula. We have a more comprehensive calculator
for our students and grads that sortof know how to manipulate these formulas a
little bit, but just a stonestarting out, and they're like, you
know, when I was practicing,I don't see clients anymore, but you
know, I'd be trying to figureout with a client like Okay, these
are caloric goals for the day,and there just wasn't a good calculator out
(25:56):
there for you to kind of doit in real time. So I wanted
to have a tool for petitioners touse on the fly. So yeah,
and is there do you have awebsite where they where our listeners can find
out more about you and your bookand um all about your work. Yeah,
the best spot for that is theOncology and Nutrition Institute dot com.
(26:18):
We've got some free and small feed, public and practitioner trainings there that calculators
there, our news lists, Carol, as you go, we're trying to
get that, you know, kindof more going, but getting good information
out there every month and then youknow, everything coming out about social media.
I've always been pretty adverse to socialmedia, but if you want to
(26:38):
find us, we're most active onlinked In. We have a student group
on there, we have a schoolpage, so those are are are kind
of the two spots. Okay,perfect, Well, this has been great,
Jess. Thank you so much forjoining me in and thank you for
sharing this information because we know thatnutrition can help people heal from answer.
(27:00):
It's so critical and I'm so gladthat you're doing your work at the Oncology
Nutrition Institute, So thank you somuch for joining me. Well, that
wraps up this episode of Five toThrive Live once again. I'd like to
thank our sponsors. Amused postbiotic togive your immune system that extra boost,
Cognizancecholine to help enhance memory, focusat attention doctor or Here is award winning
(27:22):
shelf stable probiotic dia herbs, makersof exceptional quality herbal products and pro thrivers
Wellness sleep formula. Thanks for joiningus. Everyone. May you experience joy,
laughter and love. It's time tothrive. Everyone, have a great night.
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