March 12, 2024 • 29 mins
When you think of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) you may think first of soldiers on the battlefield. But the fact is trauma surfaces in many ways. On this show, Karolyn talks with integrative mental health expert Tara Peyman, ND, about what PTSD is, how it can surface, and most importantly, how to address this serious issue with a holistic approach. If you or someone you know suffers from PTSD, help is available!
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive Live.
(00:43):
I'm Carolyn Gazilla and I co hostthis show with my good friend doctor
Lise Alschuler. Today we're going tobe talking about post traumatic stress disorder,
which is a very important mental healthissue that many people experience. But first
I'd like to thank our sponsors,beginning with American Biosciences, makers of Metatrol
fermented wheat germ extract for enhanced mitochondrialfunction and IMpower AHCC to supercharge your immune
(01:10):
system. For free samples, researchand an exclusive Thrive discount, go to
the Harmonycompany dot com slash Thrive.Also Amuse, a unique, patented post
biotic that gives your immune system akey advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient in
many immune supporting dietaries supplements. Lookfor Amuse on the label or go to
immusehealth dot com for more information andcognizance. Citicoline, which is nature's way
(01:34):
of keeping the brain's energy producing centersfiring on all cylinders. If you're looking
for a way to enhance your brainfunction, including memory, focus, and
attention, look for Cognizant on thelabel or go to Cognizant dot com for
more information. Prothriver's Brain is aproduct that contains Cognizant as well as other
brain supporting nutrients and herbs. Youcan find Prothriver's Brain online at pure Formulas
(01:57):
dot com and finally, doctor Oheraspro Biotics. It's a best selling probiotic
for more than thirty years and itcontained twelve probiotic strains that are shelf stable
so no refrigeration is required. Becauseof a unique three year fermentation process,
It's a very effective probiotic. Learnmore at doctor ohiraprobiotics dot com. So
with me today is doctor Tara Payman, who is a naturopathic physician specializing in
(02:21):
mental health issues. She is thevice president of the Psychiatric Association of Naturopathic
Physicians and the medical director of theIntegrative Mental Health Center in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Doctor Payman, welcome back to theshow. Thank you so much for
having me. So this is animportant one. So let's start by having
you tell us what's the technical definitionof PTSD and what are the symptoms.
(02:46):
Sure, so, PTSD is posttraumatic stress disorder, and this can occur
after experiencing a traumatic event or aseries of traumatic events that involve a life
threatening experience or a serious injury ora sexual violence. And this can be
either from directly experiencing the trauma yourselfor witnessing the event in as it happened
(03:10):
live to another person, or itcould also happen even from just learning of
a traumatic or accidental death or seriousinjury to a loved one, or even
experiencing repeated exposure to the details oftraumatic events. So that could involve first
responders who are collecting evidence at crimescenes, or even doctors or therapists who
(03:34):
are hearing repeated detailed stories of traumaor child abuse. And so that's the
first thing, is that there needsto be a serious traumatic event that has
occurred, and then this has tohave happened for at least a month where
a person has experienced this traumatic eventand then has at least a month of
(03:58):
specific symptom relating to that traumatic event. So that would be re experiencing the
symptoms as intrusive thoughts, intrusive memories, dissociative flashbacks where the person feels as
if they're back there at the traumaticexperience, and nightmares can also be a
(04:19):
common way to re experience this traumaticevent. There's also avoidance behaviors, meaning
that the person may need may feelthe need to avoid certain places, certain
triggers that remind them of the traumaticexperiences, and then negative mood or negative
(04:40):
thought processes ever since this traumatic event, experiencing more sadness, excessive guilt,
feelings of anger or resentment, feelingsof extreme fear or panic attacks, lack
of joy, and then sometimes blackand white thinking, broad sort of generalizations
as if thoughts like no one canbe trusted or bad things are always going
(05:05):
to happen to me, loss ofloss of interest, and then also sometimes
to associate of amnesia, which isspecific forgetfulness or lack of ability to remember
certain aspects of the traumatic event,and that happens as a coping mechanism in
the brain to kind of block outexcessive negative experiences mentally. And then there's
(05:29):
a third or fourth aspect of thePTSD symptoms, which are hyper arousal,
so that's startling easily, experiencing extremeanxiety challenges, concentrating where you're having a
hard time focusing either at work orat school, and then difficulty sleeping,
so a lot of difficulty either fallingasleep or staying asleep. And as I
(05:51):
mentioned, this has to be happeningfor at least a month. It's very
normal for anybody who's experienced a serioustraumatic event to experience any or all of
these symptoms for some amount of time. You know, for a day or
two you can be in shock oryou know, anybody would be expected to
experience these things for a very shortamount of time, but if it prolongs
(06:14):
to a month or more, thenit could be diagnosed as PTSD. Okay,
yeah, that was very comprehensive,Thank you. So what are some
common misconceptions associated with PTSD? AndI think this is a this is a
big eie. Yeah, indeed,so PTSD is it is something that people
have a lot of misconceptions about.One of the most important things I think
(06:38):
about PTSD is people have this ideathat they should be over it by now,
like something that happened let's say,you know, twenty years ago,
and they're they're hard on themselves thinkingthat, you know, why am I
still affected by this? It happenedso long ago. And the reality is
(06:59):
that our nervous system has no ideawhat year it is. Something could have
happened decades ago, but if wenever really processed through it properly in therapy
or with other treatments, it canliterally feel as if it just happened yesterday.
So that's one important myth that Iwant to bust in this conversation.
(07:21):
Another myth that I think is importantis the idea that PTSD is a sign
of weakness, and that's just nottrue at all. You know, these
sort of trauma reactions are a normalresponse to an abnormal situation. So having
PTSD is not at all a signof weakness. It's simply a sign that
(07:42):
your nervous system is actually functioning andresponsive to an extreme threat. And now
if the threat is no longer happeninganymore, then it's basically that your nervous
system got stuck in that fighter flightmode and we just need to do certain
therapies to help you get out ofthat fight or flight mode. There's a
few other misconceptions that I'd like tomention. One of them is that life
(08:05):
threatening events always lead to PTSD,and that's not true. People go through
things in different ways and internalize experiencesin different ways, so the same traumatic
event can happen to multiple people andnot everyone will develop PTSD. So there's
a really wonderful quote by Gabor Matewho says, trauma is not what happened
(08:28):
to you, it's what happens insideof you as a result of what happened
to you. So I think that'sreally important to identify that it's really not
what happened, it's how we internalizeour beliefs, our ideas about what it
means, kind of how we makemeaning of what happened to us. And
that's why therapy afterwards and how wekind of get support, you know,
(08:52):
group therapy or individual counseling and differenttypes of therapies to stabilize our nervous systems.
It's so essential. And lastly,there's a myth that PTSD is only
for veterans or first responders, andthat's just not true at all. We
all can experience severe trauma in regularlife. I mean, you know,
(09:15):
physical assault or sexual assault happens topeople and natural disasters happen to people.
There are serious injuries witnessing, youknow, traumatic events, traumatic deaths,
accidents, even bullying can cause PTSDin young people in particular, so or
(09:37):
you know, abuse can cause PTSDin a chronic way. So it's really
not just for veterans. This happens, unfortunately to way too many people.
Yeah, and along those same lines, I remember some reading some startling statistics
about the large number of people diagnosedwith cancer who experience PTS, and I
(10:01):
in my talks and meeting a numberof cancer survivors over the past several decades,
I hear this as as well.So what does PTSD look like or
show up like for a cancer survivor? Well, that's a great question.
You know, it's obviously it's goingto be very different for every person because
(10:24):
every person's story is unique and andevery you know that that runs across across
the board, you know, regardlessof what is causing the PTSD, it
can look very different for different people. But I do think this is a
really good point that even a diagnosisof cancer can be can feel like like
(10:45):
a life threatening experience. You know, the word cancer has so much stigma
and there's such an expectation around itthat especially if you don't know all of
the details yet. Even if youhave a diagnosed of basal cell carcinoma,
for example, which is you know, very curable and very it's an excellent
(11:05):
prognosis. If someone tells you youhave skin cancer, you know, that
can be that can be traumatic.And let alone, you know, somebody
who has much more serious cancer,and then they have to deal with managing
the symptoms, and then the sideeffects of the treatments themselves can feel or
(11:26):
literally be life threatening. So thewhole that whole experience is very traumatic on
many levels. And then it canalso be socially isolated, socially isolating in
different ways. To have you know, gone through the experiences of dealing with
cancer can really alter a person's lifein so many ways. So and that
(11:52):
is true of many conditions. Infact, you know, any any kind
of very serious illness can can betraumatic, both for the person going through
it as well as their caregivers orloved ones. Yeah, it's such a
good point. I remember with mydiagnosis, every time I would have to
go in for blood work or haveto go for a test, I was
(12:13):
just reminded about the fear and soyet it's but it's a good point that
other chronic illnesses too can can affectthis. So let's talk about a holistic
approach, because I know that's whatyou're all about, a holistic, integrative
approach. What do you address firstwhen it comes to helping your patients who
are experiencing PTSD. So, asI said before, there are so many
(12:35):
different ways that this can show up. So what I do for any patient
is, first of all, I'lltake their entire case history and I ask
them, you know, I'm reallytrying to figure out what are the underlying
causes here, and what is themain thing for this person? What is
the worst part for them? Andthen I'll work on addressing that, and
(12:56):
you know, trying to address theunderlying causes. In PTSD, there's always
nervous system destabilization or impairment, orthe person is in a fight, flight
or freeze mode and or all ofthe above. For some people, it's
more of a fight mode where they'remore aggressive and irritable and angry, and
(13:16):
in other people it's more of aflight mode where they're more anxious, and
so that's a different kind of presentation. And in other people, it's more
of a freeze mode, which isnot talked about as much, but it's
very common, and that's often moredissociative experiences and depressive experiences. And so
(13:37):
first, you know, it's sortof analyzing the case and figuring out what
do I need to know, whatdoes this really look like, what are
the underlying causes, and what's thepresentation, And then that's going to give
me different insights into which remedies orherbal medicines to try, so an overview.
What what I'm always doing is focusingon stabilizing the nervous system, and
(14:00):
do that using herbal medicine, usinghomeopathic remedies, individually selected homeopathic like one
homeopathic remedy for each patient at anygiven time based on the specific symptoms of
their case. And then in additionto that, nutritional supplementation can be very
supportive making sure that they understand what'shappening in their nervous system. I do
(14:24):
a lot of psycho education around,like polyvagal theory, which is the idea
of the vagus nerve regulating that fightflight freeze kind of response, helping the
person understand what's happening to them,Like why, for example, you know,
every time I go for a blooddraw, why do I have such
a fight or flight reaction? Whyis my heart rate going through the roof
(14:48):
and I'm sweating and I'm so scared. And I'll help them understand, this
is why, this is what's happeningin your body. It's just adrenaline,
you know, and you are actuallysafe. You are safe now, you
know, And so helping them tounderstand that and then giving them some tools
and skills to cope with that inthe moment is definitely part of my protocols.
(15:13):
And then I'll refer for therapy almostalways in cases of especially in cases
of complex or chronic PTSD, Ialways refer for counseling so that we can
have a really comprehensive approach. Irefer for EMDR a lot, which is
a specific form of therapy that hasbeen found to be especially beneficial for PTSD,
(15:35):
and acupuncture can also be beneficial insome cases. And then there's one
other form of therapy that we offerat our clinic and that other clinics offer
as well, called craniosacral therapy,which can be especially beneficial for stabilizing the
nervous system. In cases of PTSD. Yeah, and I think that's really
the critical factor here, because thecentral nervous system is destabilized and you're trying
(16:00):
to stabilize it and bring everything backinto balance or homeostasis, and your integrative
holistic approach really addresses that from acomprehensive standpoint. You know, you mentioned
homeopathic you mentioned herbs, dietary supplements, you know from a diet standpoint.
From a dietary standpoint, are therecommendations that you could make to help stabilize
(16:22):
the nervous system. Sure, So, firstly, one of the most important
things is stabilization of blood sugar.So that can be done with making sure
the person is actually eating. Firstof all, sometimes people lose their appetite
when they're really anxious, or ifthey're really depressed, they don't eat,
or they eat really poorly and irregularly, And so helping the person to understand,
(16:49):
you know, food is not justsomething to fill you up, it's
actually something to help you to feelgood, like you can use food as
medicine in many ways. And soI'll talk to them about it and really
help them understand the key connections betweenblood sugar regularity and anxiety reduction, and
(17:10):
that a lot of the time,for a lot of people, if their
blood sugar drops, their anxiety spikesup, and they didn't even realize that
that was a huge cause of anxietyor brain fog or fatigue on a daily
basis. And so just stabilizing theirblood sugar with healthy, regular, nutritious
meals throughout the day is the mostimportant foundational thing when it comes to dietary
(17:36):
interventions. And then on top ofthat, I'll give them, you know,
specific guidelines for improving their nutritional wellness. So making sure that they're getting
enough protein, healthy fats, youknow, good omega threes at at each
meal or each day, making surethey have enough fiber in their diet is
keep their blood sugar stable. It'svery helpful to just have that nourishment.
(18:03):
It can so foundational, and it'soften overlooked. Yeah, I would agree,
And I've been reading a lot ofresearch about ultra processed foods and the
dangers of ultra process foods. Ihaven't read anything specific to PTSD, but
I would assume that these ultra processedfoods, I mean, they're the antithesis
of a whole food's healthy diet sowe should be trying to reduce these ultra
(18:25):
process foods. Yeah, in anycase we should, in any case of
you know, even if somebody isnot ill with anything, they should try
to reduce those ultraprocessed foods for longevityand overall, you know, long term
health prevention of disease. There's somuch information now coming out about inflammation and
gut microbiome function and health and howthat has so much to do with chronic
(18:49):
disease or lack thereof. You know, if a person is consuming ultra processed
foods, their body is going tobe more inflamed, and they're going to
be more at risk for answer,they're going to be more at risk for
heart disease, for diabetes, forjust about any kind of chronic illness.
And the opposite is also true fromthe other direction, where if we can
(19:10):
eliminate those ultraprocessed foods and focus onmore of an anti inflammatory, well balanced,
nourishing diet, that it's going toreduce our risk of diseases and actually
potentially reverse of some of those diseaseprocesses that are going on, and that
includes mental health as well as physicalhealth. Yeah. Absolutely, we talk
(19:32):
a lot about the Mediterranean diet andthe whole food you know, colorful Mediterranean
diet, and I know I've readstudies on how the Mediterranean diet can positively
impact mental health. So let's talkabout lifestyle habits, mind body spirit techniques.
You know, you mentioned the vagusnerve, and I have written about
(19:52):
that and I love it. Ithink that these are some very simple things
that people can employ, Like inthe moment, talk to us a little
bit about lifestyle and mind, bodyspirit. Sure, yeah, so one
of the I mean meditation. Mindfulnessmeditation is such a valuable tool to learn
(20:14):
for everything. I mean, Irecommend it to almost all of my patients
for a variety of reasons, andI teach them mindfulness meditation practices that are
very simple. You know, evenjust noticing your breath, even just a
practice of literally taking three seconds topause and breathe and notice how your breath
(20:40):
shifts your nervous system in that onebreath, that's effective. I mean,
you can do something with a singlebreath, and then if you can link
you know, ten breaths together,you can actually change your nervous system.
You can change the way that youfeel in even just one minute. And
(21:00):
then if you can do even youknow, ten minutes of breath work or
breathing exercises, that can be verypowerful. And then the mental aspect of
meditation, mindfulness meditation. The keywith mindfulness meditation is non judgmental awareness of
the moment, of the present moment. So what that really translates to,
(21:23):
or ends up creating in the inthe mind and in the body, is
a feeling of acceptance of how thingsare right now. And then with the
feeling of acceptance, there's this sortof relaxation that can happen that is the
(21:48):
opposite of what happens when a personis in a fight or flight or freeze
mode. So that whole, youknow, the whole experience of PTSD is
that there's this horrible event that happened, and there's this immense amount of resistance
against experiencing that horror right or thatfear, or that whatever it creates.
(22:10):
And so if we can kind oftitrate these experiences where we can allow ourselves
to feel a little bit of discomfortand be okay with that discomfort instead of
pushing it away or running away ornumbing or you know, just zoning out,
(22:30):
if we can actually tune in andtune into our breath and focus on
mindful non judgmental awareness, meaning I'mnot judging this moment as bad. I'm
not judging this feeling as bad.It's just there. I'm just feeling this,
and I accept and love myself withthis feeling. That can shift things
(22:55):
in a huge way. And ifyou can practice that, it's very It
sounds sort of simple, but it'svery hard to do, actually, especially
if you're in a really distressed state. So I don't expect anybody to just
get this right away, but ifyou can practice it in little moments,
kind of bit by bit, andthen you can build up to more of
a you know, complete practice,like ten or twenty minutes at a time,
(23:18):
and you can do guided meditations,mindfulness meditations. There's a lot of
apps that I recommend, like insightTimer, for example, is a great
resource and it's free and people cango to that as a and there's other
apps as well, like Headspace andall sorts of other ones that are very
good, and or books, andso that can make a huge difference in
(23:40):
terms of stabilizing your kind of yourmind body connection and helping you to feel
more at ease with whatever comes up. Even if you are feeling really,
you know, worn out or overwhelmedby the symptoms that are experience that you're
experiencing, you can you can experiencea state of kind of compassion for yourself
(24:03):
amidst that, and it can changeeverything. So I recommend that quite a
lot. Yoga is another another thingthat's very tied into meditation and can It's
been studied to be quite beneficial foranxiety reduction, depression reduction. It can
make a huge difference for people withPTSD. So those are some of the
(24:23):
main lifestyle habits. And then obviouslyexercise in general. Everyone's a little different
with what kind of exercise works bestfor them, and so it's important to
kind of know yourself and know yourbody and work with your doctor if you
have certain limitations. But getting intosome sort of regular exercise, especially out
(24:47):
in nature if possible, it canbe very beneficial for anxiety and depression reduction.
It can help improve There's a neurochemicalcalled BDNF which can help to actually
heal the brain from various injuries,and it can help to reduce the symptoms
(25:08):
of depression. So that is increasedwith exercise and so it's very important to
incorporate any kind of exercise that you'reable to do. Yeah, and being
out in nature. I'm so gladthat you mentioned that, and as you
as you mentioned these techniques actually rewireour brain, so it will help.
(25:30):
So before I let you go,I would like you to speak for a
minute or two about sleep. Whatrole does sleep? Because I know if
I don't get a good seven eighthours of sleep, I feel a bit
crazy, you know, I feellike my mental health is just really gone
in the tank. So what aboutsleep? And that we have about a
minute or so. Yeah, Sosleep is very essential for just about it,
(25:53):
you know, for everybody, butit's very important for people with PTSD
to help improve their sleep quality.So I always I really love to use
certain specific nutrients and herbs for sleep. One of my favorites is Ealthy nine.
It's a nutritional supplement. You canfind it just about anywhere, and
(26:14):
I'll use a couple hundred milligrams ofthat at night. Some people need pretty
high doses, like six hundred milligrams. Some people only need a couple hundred
milligrams, but it can really helpto reduce cortisol levels. Reduce adrenaline and
help improve sleep quality. So that'sone of my favorites. I sometimes use
Valerian roots some people respond really wellto that. Other people like to use
(26:37):
passionflower extract. Some people like gabbaas a sleep aid. Magnesium is a
very helpful sleep aid as well.And then I'll sometimes utilize certain meditations or
hypnosis as a way to help kindof guide people into sleep like audio have
(26:59):
no they can do on their ownat home, and acupuncture and Chinese erbal
medicine can also be really beneficial toimprove sleep quality. Yeah, and I
love that combination of elthy union andmagnesium before bad. I think that that's
great. So this has been veryinformational. Where can people find out more
about you and your work? Doyou have a website that you'd like to
(27:21):
share? Yeah? So my websiteis I am HCAs dot com. That's
as an integrative mental health center asySo I am HCAs dot com that has
all of my information on it.You can book a free consult as well.
We talk to people all the timeabout whether we can help them with
(27:45):
their with their mental health concerns,and we would be happy to talk to
you and see if you would bea good candidate. Perfect. I am
HCAZ dot com. Well, doctorPayman, you have become my newst favorite
mental health expert for such a wealthof information. Thank you again for joining
(28:06):
me and talking to me about thisreally important topic. Absolutely, it's been
my pleasure. Well, that wrapsup this episode of five to Thrive Live
once again. I'd like to thankour sponsors, American Biosciences, makers of
Metatrol and IMpower, the perfect combinationfor mitochondrial health, immune system support and
maximized energy. Also, immuse postbiotic to give your immune system that extra
(28:30):
boost. Fabin is in Citicolon tohelp enhance memory, focus and attention.
And Doctor or Heroes Award winning shelfstable probiotic. All right, well may
you experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive. Everyone,
have a great night. The Citiesban had stray been in li
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguest should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to five to Thrive Live.
(00:43):
I'm Carolyn Gazilla and I co hostthis show with my good friend doctor
Lise Alschuler. Today we're going tobe talking about post traumatic stress disorder,
which is a very important mental healthissue that many people experience. But first
I'd like to thank our sponsors,beginning with American Biosciences, makers of Metatrol
fermented wheat germ extract for enhanced mitochondrialfunction and IMpower AHCC to supercharge your immune
(01:10):
system. For free samples, researchand an exclusive Thrive discount, go to
the Harmonycompany dot com slash Thrive.Also Amuse, a unique, patented post
biotic that gives your immune system akey advantage. Ammuse is an ingredient in
many immune supporting dietaries supplements. Lookfor Amuse on the label or go to
immusehealth dot com for more information andcognizance. Citicoline, which is nature's way
(01:34):
of keeping the brain's energy producing centersfiring on all cylinders. If you're looking
for a way to enhance your brainfunction, including memory, focus, and
attention, look for Cognizant on thelabel or go to Cognizant dot com for
more information. Prothriver's Brain is aproduct that contains Cognizant as well as other
brain supporting nutrients and herbs. Youcan find Prothriver's Brain online at pure Formulas
(01:57):
dot com and finally, doctor Oheraspro Biotics. It's a best selling probiotic
for more than thirty years and itcontained twelve probiotic strains that are shelf stable
so no refrigeration is required. Becauseof a unique three year fermentation process,
It's a very effective probiotic. Learnmore at doctor ohiraprobiotics dot com. So
with me today is doctor Tara Payman, who is a naturopathic physician specializing in
(02:21):
mental health issues. She is thevice president of the Psychiatric Association of Naturopathic
Physicians and the medical director of theIntegrative Mental Health Center in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Doctor Payman, welcome back to theshow. Thank you so much for
having me. So this is animportant one. So let's start by having
you tell us what's the technical definitionof PTSD and what are the symptoms.
(02:46):
Sure, so, PTSD is posttraumatic stress disorder, and this can occur
after experiencing a traumatic event or aseries of traumatic events that involve a life
threatening experience or a serious injury ora sexual violence. And this can be
either from directly experiencing the trauma yourselfor witnessing the event in as it happened
(03:10):
live to another person, or itcould also happen even from just learning of
a traumatic or accidental death or seriousinjury to a loved one, or even
experiencing repeated exposure to the details oftraumatic events. So that could involve first
responders who are collecting evidence at crimescenes, or even doctors or therapists who
(03:34):
are hearing repeated detailed stories of traumaor child abuse. And so that's the
first thing, is that there needsto be a serious traumatic event that has
occurred, and then this has tohave happened for at least a month where
a person has experienced this traumatic eventand then has at least a month of
(03:58):
specific symptom relating to that traumatic event. So that would be re experiencing the
symptoms as intrusive thoughts, intrusive memories, dissociative flashbacks where the person feels as
if they're back there at the traumaticexperience, and nightmares can also be a
(04:19):
common way to re experience this traumaticevent. There's also avoidance behaviors, meaning
that the person may need may feelthe need to avoid certain places, certain
triggers that remind them of the traumaticexperiences, and then negative mood or negative
(04:40):
thought processes ever since this traumatic event, experiencing more sadness, excessive guilt,
feelings of anger or resentment, feelingsof extreme fear or panic attacks, lack
of joy, and then sometimes blackand white thinking, broad sort of generalizations
as if thoughts like no one canbe trusted or bad things are always going
(05:05):
to happen to me, loss ofloss of interest, and then also sometimes
to associate of amnesia, which isspecific forgetfulness or lack of ability to remember
certain aspects of the traumatic event,and that happens as a coping mechanism in
the brain to kind of block outexcessive negative experiences mentally. And then there's
(05:29):
a third or fourth aspect of thePTSD symptoms, which are hyper arousal,
so that's startling easily, experiencing extremeanxiety challenges, concentrating where you're having a
hard time focusing either at work orat school, and then difficulty sleeping,
so a lot of difficulty either fallingasleep or staying asleep. And as I
(05:51):
mentioned, this has to be happeningfor at least a month. It's very
normal for anybody who's experienced a serioustraumatic event to experience any or all of
these symptoms for some amount of time. You know, for a day or
two you can be in shock oryou know, anybody would be expected to
experience these things for a very shortamount of time, but if it prolongs
(06:14):
to a month or more, thenit could be diagnosed as PTSD. Okay,
yeah, that was very comprehensive,Thank you. So what are some
common misconceptions associated with PTSD? AndI think this is a this is a
big eie. Yeah, indeed,so PTSD is it is something that people
have a lot of misconceptions about.One of the most important things I think
(06:38):
about PTSD is people have this ideathat they should be over it by now,
like something that happened let's say,you know, twenty years ago,
and they're they're hard on themselves thinkingthat, you know, why am I
still affected by this? It happenedso long ago. And the reality is
(06:59):
that our nervous system has no ideawhat year it is. Something could have
happened decades ago, but if wenever really processed through it properly in therapy
or with other treatments, it canliterally feel as if it just happened yesterday.
So that's one important myth that Iwant to bust in this conversation.
(07:21):
Another myth that I think is importantis the idea that PTSD is a sign
of weakness, and that's just nottrue at all. You know, these
sort of trauma reactions are a normalresponse to an abnormal situation. So having
PTSD is not at all a signof weakness. It's simply a sign that
(07:42):
your nervous system is actually functioning andresponsive to an extreme threat. And now
if the threat is no longer happeninganymore, then it's basically that your nervous
system got stuck in that fighter flightmode and we just need to do certain
therapies to help you get out ofthat fight or flight mode. There's a
few other misconceptions that I'd like tomention. One of them is that life
(08:05):
threatening events always lead to PTSD,and that's not true. People go through
things in different ways and internalize experiencesin different ways, so the same traumatic
event can happen to multiple people andnot everyone will develop PTSD. So there's
a really wonderful quote by Gabor Matewho says, trauma is not what happened
(08:28):
to you, it's what happens insideof you as a result of what happened
to you. So I think that'sreally important to identify that it's really not
what happened, it's how we internalizeour beliefs, our ideas about what it
means, kind of how we makemeaning of what happened to us. And
that's why therapy afterwards and how wekind of get support, you know,
(08:52):
group therapy or individual counseling and differenttypes of therapies to stabilize our nervous systems.
It's so essential. And lastly,there's a myth that PTSD is only
for veterans or first responders, andthat's just not true at all. We
all can experience severe trauma in regularlife. I mean, you know,
(09:15):
physical assault or sexual assault happens topeople and natural disasters happen to people.
There are serious injuries witnessing, youknow, traumatic events, traumatic deaths,
accidents, even bullying can cause PTSDin young people in particular, so or
(09:37):
you know, abuse can cause PTSDin a chronic way. So it's really
not just for veterans. This happens, unfortunately to way too many people.
Yeah, and along those same lines, I remember some reading some startling statistics
about the large number of people diagnosedwith cancer who experience PTS, and I
(10:01):
in my talks and meeting a numberof cancer survivors over the past several decades,
I hear this as as well.So what does PTSD look like or
show up like for a cancer survivor? Well, that's a great question.
You know, it's obviously it's goingto be very different for every person because
(10:24):
every person's story is unique and andevery you know that that runs across across
the board, you know, regardlessof what is causing the PTSD, it
can look very different for different people. But I do think this is a
really good point that even a diagnosisof cancer can be can feel like like
(10:45):
a life threatening experience. You know, the word cancer has so much stigma
and there's such an expectation around itthat especially if you don't know all of
the details yet. Even if youhave a diagnosed of basal cell carcinoma,
for example, which is you know, very curable and very it's an excellent
(11:05):
prognosis. If someone tells you youhave skin cancer, you know, that
can be that can be traumatic.And let alone, you know, somebody
who has much more serious cancer,and then they have to deal with managing
the symptoms, and then the sideeffects of the treatments themselves can feel or
(11:26):
literally be life threatening. So thewhole that whole experience is very traumatic on
many levels. And then it canalso be socially isolated, socially isolating in
different ways. To have you know, gone through the experiences of dealing with
cancer can really alter a person's lifein so many ways. So and that
(11:52):
is true of many conditions. Infact, you know, any any kind
of very serious illness can can betraumatic, both for the person going through
it as well as their caregivers orloved ones. Yeah, it's such a
good point. I remember with mydiagnosis, every time I would have to
go in for blood work or haveto go for a test, I was
(12:13):
just reminded about the fear and soyet it's but it's a good point that
other chronic illnesses too can can affectthis. So let's talk about a holistic
approach, because I know that's whatyou're all about, a holistic, integrative
approach. What do you address firstwhen it comes to helping your patients who
are experiencing PTSD. So, asI said before, there are so many
(12:35):
different ways that this can show up. So what I do for any patient
is, first of all, I'lltake their entire case history and I ask
them, you know, I'm reallytrying to figure out what are the underlying
causes here, and what is themain thing for this person? What is
the worst part for them? Andthen I'll work on addressing that, and
(12:56):
you know, trying to address theunderlying causes. In PTSD, there's always
nervous system destabilization or impairment, orthe person is in a fight, flight
or freeze mode and or all ofthe above. For some people, it's
more of a fight mode where they'remore aggressive and irritable and angry, and
(13:16):
in other people it's more of aflight mode where they're more anxious, and
so that's a different kind of presentation. And in other people, it's more
of a freeze mode, which isnot talked about as much, but it's
very common, and that's often moredissociative experiences and depressive experiences. And so
(13:37):
first, you know, it's sortof analyzing the case and figuring out what
do I need to know, whatdoes this really look like, what are
the underlying causes, and what's thepresentation, And then that's going to give
me different insights into which remedies orherbal medicines to try, so an overview.
What what I'm always doing is focusingon stabilizing the nervous system, and
(14:00):
do that using herbal medicine, usinghomeopathic remedies, individually selected homeopathic like one
homeopathic remedy for each patient at anygiven time based on the specific symptoms of
their case. And then in additionto that, nutritional supplementation can be very
supportive making sure that they understand what'shappening in their nervous system. I do
(14:24):
a lot of psycho education around,like polyvagal theory, which is the idea
of the vagus nerve regulating that fightflight freeze kind of response, helping the
person understand what's happening to them,Like why, for example, you know,
every time I go for a blooddraw, why do I have such
a fight or flight reaction? Whyis my heart rate going through the roof
(14:48):
and I'm sweating and I'm so scared. And I'll help them understand, this
is why, this is what's happeningin your body. It's just adrenaline,
you know, and you are actuallysafe. You are safe now, you
know, And so helping them tounderstand that and then giving them some tools
and skills to cope with that inthe moment is definitely part of my protocols.
(15:13):
And then I'll refer for therapy almostalways in cases of especially in cases
of complex or chronic PTSD, Ialways refer for counseling so that we can
have a really comprehensive approach. Irefer for EMDR a lot, which is
a specific form of therapy that hasbeen found to be especially beneficial for PTSD,
(15:35):
and acupuncture can also be beneficial insome cases. And then there's one
other form of therapy that we offerat our clinic and that other clinics offer
as well, called craniosacral therapy,which can be especially beneficial for stabilizing the
nervous system. In cases of PTSD. Yeah, and I think that's really
the critical factor here, because thecentral nervous system is destabilized and you're trying
(16:00):
to stabilize it and bring everything backinto balance or homeostasis, and your integrative
holistic approach really addresses that from acomprehensive standpoint. You know, you mentioned
homeopathic you mentioned herbs, dietary supplements, you know from a diet standpoint.
From a dietary standpoint, are therecommendations that you could make to help stabilize
(16:22):
the nervous system. Sure, So, firstly, one of the most important
things is stabilization of blood sugar.So that can be done with making sure
the person is actually eating. Firstof all, sometimes people lose their appetite
when they're really anxious, or ifthey're really depressed, they don't eat,
or they eat really poorly and irregularly, And so helping the person to understand,
(16:49):
you know, food is not justsomething to fill you up, it's
actually something to help you to feelgood, like you can use food as
medicine in many ways. And soI'll talk to them about it and really
help them understand the key connections betweenblood sugar regularity and anxiety reduction, and
(17:10):
that a lot of the time,for a lot of people, if their
blood sugar drops, their anxiety spikesup, and they didn't even realize that
that was a huge cause of anxietyor brain fog or fatigue on a daily
basis. And so just stabilizing theirblood sugar with healthy, regular, nutritious
meals throughout the day is the mostimportant foundational thing when it comes to dietary
(17:36):
interventions. And then on top ofthat, I'll give them, you know,
specific guidelines for improving their nutritional wellness. So making sure that they're getting
enough protein, healthy fats, youknow, good omega threes at at each
meal or each day, making surethey have enough fiber in their diet is
keep their blood sugar stable. It'svery helpful to just have that nourishment.
(18:03):
It can so foundational, and it'soften overlooked. Yeah, I would agree,
And I've been reading a lot ofresearch about ultra processed foods and the
dangers of ultra process foods. Ihaven't read anything specific to PTSD, but
I would assume that these ultra processedfoods, I mean, they're the antithesis
of a whole food's healthy diet sowe should be trying to reduce these ultra
(18:25):
process foods. Yeah, in anycase we should, in any case of
you know, even if somebody isnot ill with anything, they should try
to reduce those ultraprocessed foods for longevityand overall, you know, long term
health prevention of disease. There's somuch information now coming out about inflammation and
gut microbiome function and health and howthat has so much to do with chronic
(18:49):
disease or lack thereof. You know, if a person is consuming ultra processed
foods, their body is going tobe more inflamed, and they're going to
be more at risk for answer,they're going to be more at risk for
heart disease, for diabetes, forjust about any kind of chronic illness.
And the opposite is also true fromthe other direction, where if we can
(19:10):
eliminate those ultraprocessed foods and focus onmore of an anti inflammatory, well balanced,
nourishing diet, that it's going toreduce our risk of diseases and actually
potentially reverse of some of those diseaseprocesses that are going on, and that
includes mental health as well as physicalhealth. Yeah. Absolutely, we talk
(19:32):
a lot about the Mediterranean diet andthe whole food you know, colorful Mediterranean
diet, and I know I've readstudies on how the Mediterranean diet can positively
impact mental health. So let's talkabout lifestyle habits, mind body spirit techniques.
You know, you mentioned the vagusnerve, and I have written about
(19:52):
that and I love it. Ithink that these are some very simple things
that people can employ, Like inthe moment, talk to us a little
bit about lifestyle and mind, bodyspirit. Sure, yeah, so one
of the I mean meditation. Mindfulnessmeditation is such a valuable tool to learn
(20:14):
for everything. I mean, Irecommend it to almost all of my patients
for a variety of reasons, andI teach them mindfulness meditation practices that are
very simple. You know, evenjust noticing your breath, even just a
practice of literally taking three seconds topause and breathe and notice how your breath
(20:40):
shifts your nervous system in that onebreath, that's effective. I mean,
you can do something with a singlebreath, and then if you can link
you know, ten breaths together,you can actually change your nervous system.
You can change the way that youfeel in even just one minute. And
(21:00):
then if you can do even youknow, ten minutes of breath work or
breathing exercises, that can be verypowerful. And then the mental aspect of
meditation, mindfulness meditation. The keywith mindfulness meditation is non judgmental awareness of
the moment, of the present moment. So what that really translates to,
(21:23):
or ends up creating in the inthe mind and in the body, is
a feeling of acceptance of how thingsare right now. And then with the
feeling of acceptance, there's this sortof relaxation that can happen that is the
(21:48):
opposite of what happens when a personis in a fight or flight or freeze
mode. So that whole, youknow, the whole experience of PTSD is
that there's this horrible event that happened, and there's this immense amount of resistance
against experiencing that horror right or thatfear, or that whatever it creates.
(22:10):
And so if we can kind oftitrate these experiences where we can allow ourselves
to feel a little bit of discomfortand be okay with that discomfort instead of
pushing it away or running away ornumbing or you know, just zoning out,
(22:30):
if we can actually tune in andtune into our breath and focus on
mindful non judgmental awareness, meaning I'mnot judging this moment as bad. I'm
not judging this feeling as bad.It's just there. I'm just feeling this,
and I accept and love myself withthis feeling. That can shift things
(22:55):
in a huge way. And ifyou can practice that, it's very It
sounds sort of simple, but it'svery hard to do, actually, especially
if you're in a really distressed state. So I don't expect anybody to just
get this right away, but ifyou can practice it in little moments,
kind of bit by bit, andthen you can build up to more of
a you know, complete practice,like ten or twenty minutes at a time,
(23:18):
and you can do guided meditations,mindfulness meditations. There's a lot of
apps that I recommend, like insightTimer, for example, is a great
resource and it's free and people cango to that as a and there's other
apps as well, like Headspace andall sorts of other ones that are very
good, and or books, andso that can make a huge difference in
(23:40):
terms of stabilizing your kind of yourmind body connection and helping you to feel
more at ease with whatever comes up. Even if you are feeling really,
you know, worn out or overwhelmedby the symptoms that are experience that you're
experiencing, you can you can experiencea state of kind of compassion for yourself
(24:03):
amidst that, and it can changeeverything. So I recommend that quite a
lot. Yoga is another another thingthat's very tied into meditation and can It's
been studied to be quite beneficial foranxiety reduction, depression reduction. It can
make a huge difference for people withPTSD. So those are some of the
(24:23):
main lifestyle habits. And then obviouslyexercise in general. Everyone's a little different
with what kind of exercise works bestfor them, and so it's important to
kind of know yourself and know yourbody and work with your doctor if you
have certain limitations. But getting intosome sort of regular exercise, especially out
(24:47):
in nature if possible, it canbe very beneficial for anxiety and depression reduction.
It can help improve There's a neurochemicalcalled BDNF which can help to actually
heal the brain from various injuries,and it can help to reduce the symptoms
(25:08):
of depression. So that is increasedwith exercise and so it's very important to
incorporate any kind of exercise that you'reable to do. Yeah, and being
out in nature. I'm so gladthat you mentioned that, and as you
as you mentioned these techniques actually rewireour brain, so it will help.
(25:30):
So before I let you go,I would like you to speak for a
minute or two about sleep. Whatrole does sleep? Because I know if
I don't get a good seven eighthours of sleep, I feel a bit
crazy, you know, I feellike my mental health is just really gone
in the tank. So what aboutsleep? And that we have about a
minute or so. Yeah, Sosleep is very essential for just about it,
(25:53):
you know, for everybody, butit's very important for people with PTSD
to help improve their sleep quality.So I always I really love to use
certain specific nutrients and herbs for sleep. One of my favorites is Ealthy nine.
It's a nutritional supplement. You canfind it just about anywhere, and
(26:14):
I'll use a couple hundred milligrams ofthat at night. Some people need pretty
high doses, like six hundred milligrams. Some people only need a couple hundred
milligrams, but it can really helpto reduce cortisol levels. Reduce adrenaline and
help improve sleep quality. So that'sone of my favorites. I sometimes use
Valerian roots some people respond really wellto that. Other people like to use
(26:37):
passionflower extract. Some people like gabbaas a sleep aid. Magnesium is a
very helpful sleep aid as well.And then I'll sometimes utilize certain meditations or
hypnosis as a way to help kindof guide people into sleep like audio have
(26:59):
no they can do on their ownat home, and acupuncture and Chinese erbal
medicine can also be really beneficial toimprove sleep quality. Yeah, and I
love that combination of elthy union andmagnesium before bad. I think that that's
great. So this has been veryinformational. Where can people find out more
about you and your work? Doyou have a website that you'd like to
(27:21):
share? Yeah? So my websiteis I am HCAs dot com. That's
as an integrative mental health center asySo I am HCAs dot com that has
all of my information on it.You can book a free consult as well.
We talk to people all the timeabout whether we can help them with
(27:45):
their with their mental health concerns,and we would be happy to talk to
you and see if you would bea good candidate. Perfect. I am
HCAZ dot com. Well, doctorPayman, you have become my newst favorite
mental health expert for such a wealthof information. Thank you again for joining
(28:06):
me and talking to me about thisreally important topic. Absolutely, it's been
my pleasure. Well, that wrapsup this episode of five to Thrive Live
once again. I'd like to thankour sponsors, American Biosciences, makers of
Metatrol and IMpower, the perfect combinationfor mitochondrial health, immune system support and
maximized energy. Also, immuse postbiotic to give your immune system that extra
(28:30):
boost. Fabin is in Citicolon tohelp enhance memory, focus and attention.
And Doctor or Heroes Award winning shelfstable probiotic. All right, well may
you experience joy, laughter and love. It's time to thrive. Everyone,
have a great night. The Citiesban had stray been in li
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