September 9, 2025 • 29 mins
On this show Karolyn talks with saliva expert—yes, saliva!—Patti Milligan, PhD, RD, CNS, about how the science of saliva can influence our health. Dr. Milligan is an accomplished author and researcher and has taught corporate wellness programs through the US and Europe. She has even done a TedTalk about how understanding our saliva can help us make informed health decisions. It's time to find out what messages our saliva is sending us!
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Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazella and I co host this show with my
good friend doctor Lise Olschuler. Wow, what an interesting show
we have lined up for you. Today we'll be talking
about saliva. Yes, saliva. My expert guest on this topic says,
our saliva is sending us messages and it's time to
(01:02):
listen up with me todays doctor Patti Milligan, who holds
a doctorate in the neuroscience of taste. She is also
a registered dietitian and a nutrition expert who has been
in the nutrition field for forty years. In fact, I
met Patty a very long time ago, and I'm so
glad we recently connected. But before we start this fascinating conversation,
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(02:31):
three year fermentation process. It's a very effective probiotic. Learn
more at Doctorohiraproadics dot com. Well, doctor Pattymilligan, thank you
so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yes, thank you for having me. It's my honor to
be in this spot.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yes, yes, it's great. And I just love this topic.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So I also love that you call yourself a saliva
enthusiast and you even have done the Ted talk on
this topic. So tell us why you got so interested
in saliva of all things.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I know it sounds crazy and just a little context.
So I've been in the field for so long and
I was getting ready to work with high level executives
and they were always like, you know, Patty, I can
do high performance nutrition at home. I can do it
at work. Kind of it's when I travel that everything goes,
(03:26):
you know, terrible in a handbag, if you will. And
I thought that was so interesting. And then here in Scottsdale,
as you know, we have a male clinic and I
was meeting with one of the aeronautical medicine docs and
I was kind of, you know, battling with this because
jet leg has always been a big issue and He's like,
(03:46):
you know, I'm curious because we found out from NASA
that our saliva drops thirty to fifty percent when we travel,
and that really got my got my antenna up. And
then I went over to school. No disrespect to any
schools in the US, but I was trying to find
a neuroscience of taste doctorate program that worked out on
(04:08):
the brain side of things, not necessarily tied to the
food industry. And there I sat down with some professors
because I wanted to study taste buds because I'm thinking, oh, heavens,
if we understood the natural progression of a taste bud,
maybe we could marry healthier eating and compliance to healthier
eating faster. Maybe it would be kind of the secret sauce,
(04:31):
if you will. So there was a French professor and
he sat up and he said, Madam, you can study
taste bloods till you're blue in the face. It's not
about your taste buds. It's the quality of saliva. And
I was like, oh my gosh, these are two different
people commenting about saliva. So then I took a deep
dive and I was amazed. And you'll appreciate this because
(04:54):
of all the great work that you do. That the
saliva flow is attached to the side of the nervous
system that's all about rest and relaxation and regeneration. So
a drop in saliva when we travel signals the nervous
system to stay in fight or flight. So I think
(05:15):
it's kind of curious that it all kind of came
full circle back to the nervous system, which I think
kind of runs our life.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I have to tell you, Patty, I am fascinated by this.
I mean, you know, I've been in this industry since
nineteen ninety two. I've written about saliva testing and everything else.
I had no idea that the quantity and quality of
our saliva it was linked to the central nervous system
so intimately, so I can't wait to dive in. So
(05:46):
when you see that our saliva is talking to us
and we should listen, what actually can our saliva tell us?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So it's interesting. There's four silos right now in bit world,
in saliva world. Okay, I think it's curious, And I
really consider myself a town crier. I really don't have
that high of expertise in any of the clinical or
biochemistry of saliva. But I can talk to all the
researchers to get them to talk to each other. So
(06:17):
the first is near and dear to my heart. I
worked pediatric oncology for years and you probably can appreciate.
The nutritionist was always called in right before the patient
was able to go home. And this was very young
kids eighteen months, two years, and it would be refeeding.
How quickly can you get them to keep a meal
(06:39):
settled in their body because then they could be discharged home.
So that was a big burden. And I never thought
about saliva. So there's a there's a group in clinical
research that studies zeroestomia, which is a fancy big word,
but it really means dry mouth. And so they're looking
at ways to enhance and increase saliva flow because it's
(07:03):
so related to the digestive tract. And then really quickly
in that saliva or in that silo, I should say,
there's also a piece. As we age, we lose saliva
flow and the risk of choke. Now I'm going to choke, sorry.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
On cue right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And it's saliva flow, and so the risk of choke
goes up almost eighty percent. And so what happens and
you can think about all these people and nursing homes.
When there's a risk of choke that's high, they start
to separate themselves from wanting to go to the dining
hall because they don't want to be embarrassed and choke
(07:45):
over the meal. And so then the clinicians have said
that leads to social isolation, malnourishment, and perish. So we
have both ends of the spectrum. Little kids in this
dry mouth and elder in drymouth. And that's why I
want to be a town crier. So that's the first
saliva or silo, sorry, second silo is related to the
(08:08):
biochemical chemistry. So you're like, you say, what can it
tell us? Right now? It's a great frontier of trailblazing
work identifying saliva biomarkers as it relates to degenerative disease.
So a shout out. There's a great physician in Florida
and in California that are studying it related to breast
(08:31):
cancer and also Alzheimer's and they right now are saying
five years before mammogram or by the time that you
have TAO protein in your brain signaling that you have
memory deficit, they can pick up a metabolite in saliva
to dictate that you are on the path right now
(08:53):
for breast cancer or Alzheimer's. So that's exciting work. I
believe one day we'll have a spit hit at home
and we'll spit. And so the third silo is related
to nutritional deficiencies and how critical would that be? As
you wake up you spit, You're like, oh, heavens, today
is a day for magnesium. Today is for glutathion, Today
(09:17):
is for vitamin D because it reflects what's going on
so quickly, within six hours, your cellular levels get communicated
to your saliva. And the fourth is kind of my
sweet spot, which is travel resilience. So this is related
(09:37):
to saliva flow and that nervous system switch. I always
think of the two sides of nervous system, and I
would appreciate any feedback from you. Is the fight or flight,
or what we call sympathetic as being one side of
the teeter totter, and then this rest, relaxation, regenerative side
is the other side of the teeter totter, And all
(09:59):
day long we go between the two when we're on Earth,
but when we fly, we get stuck on high We
get stuck in that way of the fight or flight system,
and in that there's all sorts of correlations. So I'll
stop here and let you ask any more questions.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, yeah, because this is a lot, but it is fascinating,
and like I meant, like I mentioned, you know, I'm
used to writing and reading about cortisol levels and doing
saliva testing to judge cortisol levels, and we know that
cortisol is the stress hormone, and so it makes sense
to me that there would be other things in there
(10:36):
that we can look at. But when you're talking about
these areas of interest, these silos as you call them,
how far along are we? Are we about the same
in all four silos? Or are I mean are we
just in the preliminary research phase?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Are we are we.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Able to use this information in a practical manner? Where
are we at when it comes to the actual research
associated with these silos?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yes, incredibly great question. And I have to tell you that,
as you well know, because you've written so much, there's
many phases that research goes through, and we are coming
out of the clinical research into the practical consumer So
I would say, I mean, I don't want to predict
so any saliva researchers out there, please have grace. But
(11:26):
I believe within eighteen months we will see these tests
be available for consumer use. Now the dry mouth, which
we can go into, because there's so many ways that
you can stimulate your saliva flow and switch that nervous
system into rest and relaxation. And you know, as you know,
we're in turbulent times that I think there's a way
(11:49):
that we can check in with our saliva four times
a day. And if you recognize that, ooh, I'm not
as juicy as I would like. There's definitely foods that
you can consume and in a traditional Chinese medicine way
to stimulate your saliva flow. And again the benefit is
it's bi directional for the nervous system. So by stimulating
(12:11):
saliva flow, you help shift the body into that delicious
side of the nervous system that's rest and relaxation and
vice versa. When we're in that rest and relaxation, you know,
I always say when people are on the massage table
and they get up, when their faces down and there's
a pool of strowl.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, you have a saliva flow when you're in that
side of the nervous system. So by directional meaning, it
can stimulate a saliva flow or not and tell you
you're in that form of the nervous system or not,
or you can check in with that nervous system and
get your saliva flow back. So that's the good news.
(12:53):
So anyway, long explanation, just to say, just hang in there.
We're very close. So there's saliva simplesseums and some saliva
institutes that I can share with people if they want
to stay in touch with the research because it's getting close.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, that's great, Yeah we can. We can definitely circle
back on that towards the end of the show. I
want to get into some practical things because sure, right
now you've been focusing more or I mean you just
were now focusing more on quantity saliva flow.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Is there a quality issue or is it?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Is it primarily saliva flow? And is it is it
quantity or is it the quality of our spit does
that come into place?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And again another great question, and honestly, we really don't know.
That's a little of the Pandora's box. We know that
just like in blood testing, there's a whole set of
constituents that we can study everything from inflammatory markers to
biomarkers for cancer, to vitamin you know, vitamin deficiencies. So
(13:58):
that's same avenue is being looked in saliva. It's just
that it's really the technology of the testing machines to
be so sophisticated to measure something so small in saliva
that tends to be much more robust in blood. So yeah, yeah,
(14:19):
that answers it.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It did, Yeah, it did.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So I'd like to go back to quantity because it
seems like even if, even if it's not a dry
mo mouth situation, what I hear you say is that
the quantity of our saliva makes a difference. Even if
you are not diagnosed with dry mouth, we still need
to have juicy saliva, as you mentioned, and you mentioned
that there's foods and traditional Chinese medicine. What are some
(14:45):
practical things that we can do to actually enhance the
quantity and increase saliva in our mouths?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yes, great question.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
So I love the word that they call the saliva
producing food fods. It's called se alagogues. It's kind of
a fun word to say, and it comes in four categories.
And none of this will surprise anyone because you can
just recall the last time you've had this food item
and you're like, oh, yeah, it was juicy afterwards. Number One,
(15:16):
anything with citrus, so a squeeze of lime or lemon
and water, even though it seems innocuous, is enough to
stimulate saliva flow, and grapefruit and orange in all of
that category, so citrus is number one. Second, interestingly enough,
is the chewing aspect of chewing gogieberries, dried cranberries and
(15:40):
pomegranate seeds stimulate the flow of saliva, So that's the
second category of foods. Third, just to throw one other
sassy term out there, is, as you know, in taste buds,
there's a fifth category of taste called umami, which is
just so satisfying to the taste buds, and the overall
(16:03):
body foods that have umami are things like mushroom soup,
miso soup, Thai soup, and all of these soups also
produce saliva flow. And then last category is tease, so
cinnamon tea, African red bush tea, roboiceed tea, peppermint tea,
(16:28):
all of those teas also produce saliva flow. And if
I may share, just a darling story that really got
me into this was, oh gracious. Now, it's like eight
years ago. I went down to the oldest wellness resort
in the world and it's called Rancho Laporta. I don't
(16:48):
know if you've heard of it. It's in Ticat, Mexico.
And I was giving a presentation to parents and I
was just entering this work. So at the end of it,
I kind of flippantly said, you know, I believe there'll
be a day where saliva will be appreciated in everyone's life,
especially children. And afterwards, I have this young Korean couple
(17:10):
that walks up and as they walk up, now the
wife starts to cry, and I'm feeling O goodness. What
did I say? And the fellow introduced himself and said,
you know, this is my wife and the reason why
she's crying is we have three children, and our middle
child has been diagnosed with failure to thrive. And for
all of those that have children out there, that is
(17:32):
the most devastating diagnosis in the world, that your child's
head circumference and weight ratio to height is not meeting
the gross standards. And he then said he goes and
we're up at Stanford and now when we go meet.
At the meet with the pediatrician, they bring in a
social worker and a protective services person. That's why my
(17:56):
wife is crying. They are thinking we are doing something
to Colin. And he goes, we've never heard about saliva
and what he was doing. And hopefully nobody's enjoying a
meal at this point. But he was chewing his food
and spitting it out instead of swallowing it. And so
he said, we're going to try your saliva protocol. So
(18:18):
they went away. Six months later, Oh, I get so
emotional about this. Six months later he sends me an
email and he says, you have changed her life. Colin
is no longer failure to thrive. And a pediatrician is embarrassed.
He hasn't thought about this. And I don't think you know,
but I'm a private equity funder. I will buy anything
(18:40):
you do. I mean the beautiful part. I don't really
have anything that I needed funding for.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I got in touch with a pediatrician of itt Stanford
and he's like, well, you know what, Stanford, we got
money to spend. He goes, I got two million dollars.
Let's do a study and study this and that's right
when COVID hit, so all of that went kind of
on suspension, so I just haven't revisited that. But interestingly enough,
what we did, what they did was before breakfast, Colin
(19:11):
was given a handful and literally a handful only ten
goji berries and he chewed that and that produced enough
saliva that he ate an egg the first time in
his life instead of depositing it once he had chewed it.
And then before lunch and dinner. Thank goodness, he was Korean,
so he was very accepting of soups, so he did
(19:33):
a Korean style me so soup for lunch and dinner.
And while he was able to eat all the.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Foods, that's great. Yeah, that's who I was onto something.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, exactly. That's a great story. So when you talk
about the saliva protocol, which I love the fact that
you've created a protocol for this, is it primarily food
based or are there other aspects of the saliva protocol?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
You know it is food based. However, I did discover
in traditional Chinese medicine there's tongue movements. There's four positions
of tongue. So now I've included that in the protocol
because that so quickly shifts the nervous system. And probably
you could speak, you know, volumes about the vegus nerve,
(20:19):
the twelfth the tenth nerve in our body that regulates
all the autonomic or automatic systems in our body. And often,
as you know, the vegas nerve gets hijacked because of
the stress in the world. And that's when that does.
Then saliva begins shutting down, immune system is suspended, and
(20:42):
digestive function is suspended. So I can teach you these
four movements. They're very quick. We can do it right
here on air.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I mean, let's let's do Let's take a minute
to have you describe, like maybe your favorite movement.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Okay, yeah, So it has four positions with your tongue,
so I will say them and then if you agree,
then we'll do two rounds of them and see if
we produce juiciness. So the first tongue position is at
the roof of your mouth, The second position is underneath
your bottom teeth, then your right cheek and left cheek,
(21:19):
so it goes roof bottom, right cheek, left cheek, and
you do that four times. And ideally, the traditional Chinese
medicine way is that you do it nine times to
be able to shift your vagus nerve. But for quick
purposes here, why don't we just do two rounds and
see again, you know, to the audience if they feel
(21:43):
the juiciness and some way. Yeah, And I really do think,
and I'm pushing the envelope here, but I do think
that sleep experts this is something to get on board
because I think some of the sleep issues are related
to the vegus nerve hijacked away, and so we need
to bring the vegus nerve back into positions so we
(22:06):
can produce and induce good sleep.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well, while you were talking, I was doing it and
I did, in fact produce more saliva. So I want
to remind our listeners this is just something you know.
We also we often talk about deep breathing and just
simple things people can do. So this is just I
love it, Patty, because this is so simple. So roof
of the mouth, behind the bottom teeth to the right,
(22:29):
to the left, Yes, and do it. And you're saying
in TCM traditional Chinese medicine, they say do it like
eight or nine times.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Correct exactly. And the other thing is, which I think
is funny. During COVID, I was getting all these clients
that were we would be up on zoom right to
do nutrition, and many times I would be speaking to
the mom or the woman who's a high level executive,
and she goes, I am losing it. She goes, my
(22:57):
kids are on zoom all day long for school, meet
for dinner, and there's all these fights and difficulty and
poor moods at the table. I don't care about my nutrition.
I'm more concerned about my kids. And at that point,
I said, you know what humming before a meal does
deliciousness for engaging saliva and engaging the vegas nerve. So
(23:23):
I don't know if that's something to introduce to everyone,
but a humming so hum you know, the birthday song,
whatever your favorite song is.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
So and I love it.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And I'm happy to report that families that did that
number one, they got such a kick out of the
humming of everyone that they soon began laughing. And laughing
also engages and produces the vegas nerve to come out
and saliva flow.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's awesome, Very simple things. Okay, so we have about
five minutes left. I want to talk about your renewal
kit for travelers, because that's really when you were talking
earlier about the connection between saliva and travel. I had
no idea that the saliva production is reduced by that
fifty's amazing. So what does the Renewal travel Kit do
(24:17):
for travelers?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, so I studied it and I wanted to because
of that saliva flow being cut. I wanted to know
if I could reverse the trend, if I could do
something to mitigate saliva drop that would produce a better
effect on the body and then ultimately mitigate jet like
and so what I created it. And interestingly enough, since
(24:39):
we have set all this up, I am very happy
to report I sold the company and they rebranded it
to gold Time Be ready when you get there.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Oh that's right, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
And they have three new trents and they're all whole
food space because when I created this, I wanted to
make sure if you're an Olympic athlete at a high
level executive going to speak in front of Congress, whatever
it may be, that there wasn't any nutraceutical pharmaceutical impact
of this. So it has three ingredients and the whole
(25:11):
idea is one is a chewable lozenge that is all
essentral oils and produces saliva flow. And then as you
well know and I know, and thankfully we have ce
glue thion in there.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Oh good, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
And we have an elderberry and broccoli sprouts that has
the e cetera glue de thion and selfair fane, which
also is a fancy word, but it's just it helps
the cells take out the trash, which I really think
is the secret ingredient quite frankly, and elderberry, as you
well know, and all the plethora of studies has been
(25:47):
studied to protect the lung and the respiratory tract. So
taking these three ingredients prior to getting on the flight
and then as you depart the flight helps your body
regulate that nervous system. So because the saliva flow is
happening and your body goes, oh chill, everything's good. I'm
just like I'm on earth.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah that's great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Anyway, well I want to yeah, well no, that's great,
and we only have a few minutes left, but I
want to give listeners some practical things like websites, like
where do they find out information about goal time? And
where do they find out more information about you and
your work?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yes? Yes, so the goal Time has the website of
get goal time dot com. So that's the first second
is probably LinkedIn. Quite frankly, I've been so poor on
social media. Probably embarrassing to say, but I mean I
do have a social media profile and it's just my name,
(26:45):
Patty Milligan, but most of my research or things that
I want to town cry about I put on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
That's great, Okay, so we have a couple of minutes left.
How can we take this information and use it practice.
We talked about the saliva protocol. I think that's great.
We talked about the travel what's some final advice on
how we can listen to our saliva.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Sure, I would say four times a day, check in
with your saliva. Check in to see how juicy are
You wake up in the morning and you check in
and you're like, oh gosh, I'm a little bit dry.
I'm going to take a squirt of lemon and water
before I begin my day. Get that saliva flowing right
before lunch. Now, you might have had a hectic morning
and you might have camped and shut down your saliva
(27:32):
with your nervous system. So check in right before lunch,
check in before dinner. And then check in before bed
and you can do the TCM, the traditional Chinese medicine
way to get saliva flow if you realize you're low,
or you can do one of those sleg Oh excuse me,
see amigog foods.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, and I tonight when I eat my dinner, I'm
gonna do a little I'm gonna hum a little tune
before I eat my dinner. So yeah, well this has
been great. Thank you so much Patty for joining me
and talking about this interesting conversation. Uh it's doctor Patty
Milligan on LinkedIn and it's get goaltime dot com. Check
(28:12):
it out, do the check in with your saliva four
times a day and this is perfect.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Thanks again, Patty, sure, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Have a marvelous juicy evening.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Absolutely Okay, Well that wraps up this episode of five
to Thrive Live once again. I'd like to thank our
sponsors pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep Formula, Cetria Glutathione, the superior
glutathione to support liver and immune health. Cognizantea of Colling
to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor ohere
is award winning shelf stable probiotic. This has been a
(28:43):
great show. May you experience joy, laughter and love. It's
time to thrive. Everyone, have a great night.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Sh
Any health related information on the following show provides general
information only. Content presented on any show by any host
or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
or treatment program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live. I'm
Carolyn Gazella and I co host this show with my
good friend doctor Lise Olschuler. Wow, what an interesting show
we have lined up for you. Today we'll be talking
about saliva. Yes, saliva. My expert guest on this topic says,
our saliva is sending us messages and it's time to
(01:02):
listen up with me todays doctor Patti Milligan, who holds
a doctorate in the neuroscience of taste. She is also
a registered dietitian and a nutrition expert who has been
in the nutrition field for forty years. In fact, I
met Patty a very long time ago, and I'm so
glad we recently connected. But before we start this fascinating conversation,
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three year fermentation process. It's a very effective probiotic. Learn
more at Doctorohiraproadics dot com. Well, doctor Pattymilligan, thank you
so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yes, thank you for having me. It's my honor to
be in this spot.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yes, yes, it's great. And I just love this topic.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So I also love that you call yourself a saliva
enthusiast and you even have done the Ted talk on
this topic. So tell us why you got so interested
in saliva of all things.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I know it sounds crazy and just a little context.
So I've been in the field for so long and
I was getting ready to work with high level executives
and they were always like, you know, Patty, I can
do high performance nutrition at home. I can do it
at work. Kind of it's when I travel that everything goes,
(03:26):
you know, terrible in a handbag, if you will. And
I thought that was so interesting. And then here in Scottsdale,
as you know, we have a male clinic and I
was meeting with one of the aeronautical medicine docs and
I was kind of, you know, battling with this because
jet leg has always been a big issue and He's like,
(03:46):
you know, I'm curious because we found out from NASA
that our saliva drops thirty to fifty percent when we travel,
and that really got my got my antenna up. And
then I went over to school. No disrespect to any
schools in the US, but I was trying to find
a neuroscience of taste doctorate program that worked out on
(04:08):
the brain side of things, not necessarily tied to the
food industry. And there I sat down with some professors
because I wanted to study taste buds because I'm thinking, oh, heavens,
if we understood the natural progression of a taste bud,
maybe we could marry healthier eating and compliance to healthier
eating faster. Maybe it would be kind of the secret sauce,
(04:31):
if you will. So there was a French professor and
he sat up and he said, Madam, you can study
taste bloods till you're blue in the face. It's not
about your taste buds. It's the quality of saliva. And
I was like, oh my gosh, these are two different
people commenting about saliva. So then I took a deep
dive and I was amazed. And you'll appreciate this because
(04:54):
of all the great work that you do. That the
saliva flow is attached to the side of the nervous
system that's all about rest and relaxation and regeneration. So
a drop in saliva when we travel signals the nervous
system to stay in fight or flight. So I think
(05:15):
it's kind of curious that it all kind of came
full circle back to the nervous system, which I think
kind of runs our life.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I have to tell you, Patty, I am fascinated by this.
I mean, you know, I've been in this industry since
nineteen ninety two. I've written about saliva testing and everything else.
I had no idea that the quantity and quality of
our saliva it was linked to the central nervous system
so intimately, so I can't wait to dive in. So
(05:46):
when you see that our saliva is talking to us
and we should listen, what actually can our saliva tell us?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So it's interesting. There's four silos right now in bit world,
in saliva world. Okay, I think it's curious, And I
really consider myself a town crier. I really don't have
that high of expertise in any of the clinical or
biochemistry of saliva. But I can talk to all the
researchers to get them to talk to each other. So
(06:17):
the first is near and dear to my heart. I
worked pediatric oncology for years and you probably can appreciate.
The nutritionist was always called in right before the patient
was able to go home. And this was very young
kids eighteen months, two years, and it would be refeeding.
How quickly can you get them to keep a meal
(06:39):
settled in their body because then they could be discharged home.
So that was a big burden. And I never thought
about saliva. So there's a there's a group in clinical
research that studies zeroestomia, which is a fancy big word,
but it really means dry mouth. And so they're looking
at ways to enhance and increase saliva flow because it's
(07:03):
so related to the digestive tract. And then really quickly
in that saliva or in that silo, I should say,
there's also a piece. As we age, we lose saliva
flow and the risk of choke. Now I'm going to choke, sorry.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
On cue right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And it's saliva flow, and so the risk of choke
goes up almost eighty percent. And so what happens and
you can think about all these people and nursing homes.
When there's a risk of choke that's high, they start
to separate themselves from wanting to go to the dining
hall because they don't want to be embarrassed and choke
(07:45):
over the meal. And so then the clinicians have said
that leads to social isolation, malnourishment, and perish. So we
have both ends of the spectrum. Little kids in this
dry mouth and elder in drymouth. And that's why I
want to be a town crier. So that's the first
saliva or silo, sorry, second silo is related to the
(08:08):
biochemical chemistry. So you're like, you say, what can it
tell us? Right now? It's a great frontier of trailblazing
work identifying saliva biomarkers as it relates to degenerative disease.
So a shout out. There's a great physician in Florida
and in California that are studying it related to breast
(08:31):
cancer and also Alzheimer's and they right now are saying
five years before mammogram or by the time that you
have TAO protein in your brain signaling that you have
memory deficit, they can pick up a metabolite in saliva
to dictate that you are on the path right now
(08:53):
for breast cancer or Alzheimer's. So that's exciting work. I
believe one day we'll have a spit hit at home
and we'll spit. And so the third silo is related
to nutritional deficiencies and how critical would that be? As
you wake up you spit, You're like, oh, heavens, today
is a day for magnesium. Today is for glutathion, Today
(09:17):
is for vitamin D because it reflects what's going on
so quickly, within six hours, your cellular levels get communicated
to your saliva. And the fourth is kind of my
sweet spot, which is travel resilience. So this is related
(09:37):
to saliva flow and that nervous system switch. I always
think of the two sides of nervous system, and I
would appreciate any feedback from you. Is the fight or flight,
or what we call sympathetic as being one side of
the teeter totter, and then this rest, relaxation, regenerative side
is the other side of the teeter totter, And all
(09:59):
day long we go between the two when we're on Earth,
but when we fly, we get stuck on high We
get stuck in that way of the fight or flight system,
and in that there's all sorts of correlations. So I'll
stop here and let you ask any more questions.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, yeah, because this is a lot, but it is fascinating,
and like I meant, like I mentioned, you know, I'm
used to writing and reading about cortisol levels and doing
saliva testing to judge cortisol levels, and we know that
cortisol is the stress hormone, and so it makes sense
to me that there would be other things in there
(10:36):
that we can look at. But when you're talking about
these areas of interest, these silos as you call them,
how far along are we? Are we about the same
in all four silos? Or are I mean are we
just in the preliminary research phase?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Are we are we.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Able to use this information in a practical manner? Where
are we at when it comes to the actual research
associated with these silos?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yes, incredibly great question. And I have to tell you that,
as you well know, because you've written so much, there's
many phases that research goes through, and we are coming
out of the clinical research into the practical consumer So
I would say, I mean, I don't want to predict
so any saliva researchers out there, please have grace. But
(11:26):
I believe within eighteen months we will see these tests
be available for consumer use. Now the dry mouth, which
we can go into, because there's so many ways that
you can stimulate your saliva flow and switch that nervous
system into rest and relaxation. And you know, as you know,
we're in turbulent times that I think there's a way
(11:49):
that we can check in with our saliva four times
a day. And if you recognize that, ooh, I'm not
as juicy as I would like. There's definitely foods that
you can consume and in a traditional Chinese medicine way
to stimulate your saliva flow. And again the benefit is
it's bi directional for the nervous system. So by stimulating
(12:11):
saliva flow, you help shift the body into that delicious
side of the nervous system that's rest and relaxation and
vice versa. When we're in that rest and relaxation, you know,
I always say when people are on the massage table
and they get up, when their faces down and there's
a pool of strowl.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, you have a saliva flow when you're in that
side of the nervous system. So by directional meaning, it
can stimulate a saliva flow or not and tell you
you're in that form of the nervous system or not,
or you can check in with that nervous system and
get your saliva flow back. So that's the good news.
(12:53):
So anyway, long explanation, just to say, just hang in there.
We're very close. So there's saliva simplesseums and some saliva
institutes that I can share with people if they want
to stay in touch with the research because it's getting close.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, that's great, Yeah we can. We can definitely circle
back on that towards the end of the show. I
want to get into some practical things because sure, right
now you've been focusing more or I mean you just
were now focusing more on quantity saliva flow.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Is there a quality issue or is it?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Is it primarily saliva flow? And is it is it
quantity or is it the quality of our spit does
that come into place?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And again another great question, and honestly, we really don't know.
That's a little of the Pandora's box. We know that
just like in blood testing, there's a whole set of
constituents that we can study everything from inflammatory markers to
biomarkers for cancer, to vitamin you know, vitamin deficiencies. So
(13:58):
that's same avenue is being looked in saliva. It's just
that it's really the technology of the testing machines to
be so sophisticated to measure something so small in saliva
that tends to be much more robust in blood. So yeah, yeah,
(14:19):
that answers it.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It did, Yeah, it did.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So I'd like to go back to quantity because it
seems like even if, even if it's not a dry
mo mouth situation, what I hear you say is that
the quantity of our saliva makes a difference. Even if
you are not diagnosed with dry mouth, we still need
to have juicy saliva, as you mentioned, and you mentioned
that there's foods and traditional Chinese medicine. What are some
(14:45):
practical things that we can do to actually enhance the
quantity and increase saliva in our mouths?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yes, great question.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
So I love the word that they call the saliva
producing food fods. It's called se alagogues. It's kind of
a fun word to say, and it comes in four categories.
And none of this will surprise anyone because you can
just recall the last time you've had this food item
and you're like, oh, yeah, it was juicy afterwards. Number One,
(15:16):
anything with citrus, so a squeeze of lime or lemon
and water, even though it seems innocuous, is enough to
stimulate saliva flow, and grapefruit and orange in all of
that category, so citrus is number one. Second, interestingly enough,
is the chewing aspect of chewing gogieberries, dried cranberries and
(15:40):
pomegranate seeds stimulate the flow of saliva, So that's the
second category of foods. Third, just to throw one other
sassy term out there, is, as you know, in taste buds,
there's a fifth category of taste called umami, which is
just so satisfying to the taste buds, and the overall
(16:03):
body foods that have umami are things like mushroom soup,
miso soup, Thai soup, and all of these soups also
produce saliva flow. And then last category is tease, so
cinnamon tea, African red bush tea, roboiceed tea, peppermint tea,
(16:28):
all of those teas also produce saliva flow. And if
I may share, just a darling story that really got
me into this was, oh gracious. Now, it's like eight
years ago. I went down to the oldest wellness resort
in the world and it's called Rancho Laporta. I don't
(16:48):
know if you've heard of it. It's in Ticat, Mexico.
And I was giving a presentation to parents and I
was just entering this work. So at the end of it,
I kind of flippantly said, you know, I believe there'll
be a day where saliva will be appreciated in everyone's life,
especially children. And afterwards, I have this young Korean couple
(17:10):
that walks up and as they walk up, now the
wife starts to cry, and I'm feeling O goodness. What
did I say? And the fellow introduced himself and said,
you know, this is my wife and the reason why
she's crying is we have three children, and our middle
child has been diagnosed with failure to thrive. And for
all of those that have children out there, that is
(17:32):
the most devastating diagnosis in the world, that your child's
head circumference and weight ratio to height is not meeting
the gross standards. And he then said he goes and
we're up at Stanford and now when we go meet.
At the meet with the pediatrician, they bring in a
social worker and a protective services person. That's why my
(17:56):
wife is crying. They are thinking we are doing something
to Colin. And he goes, we've never heard about saliva
and what he was doing. And hopefully nobody's enjoying a
meal at this point. But he was chewing his food
and spitting it out instead of swallowing it. And so
he said, we're going to try your saliva protocol. So
(18:18):
they went away. Six months later, Oh, I get so
emotional about this. Six months later he sends me an
email and he says, you have changed her life. Colin
is no longer failure to thrive. And a pediatrician is embarrassed.
He hasn't thought about this. And I don't think you know,
but I'm a private equity funder. I will buy anything
(18:40):
you do. I mean the beautiful part. I don't really
have anything that I needed funding for.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I got in touch with a pediatrician of itt Stanford
and he's like, well, you know what, Stanford, we got
money to spend. He goes, I got two million dollars.
Let's do a study and study this and that's right
when COVID hit, so all of that went kind of
on suspension, so I just haven't revisited that. But interestingly enough,
what we did, what they did was before breakfast, Colin
(19:11):
was given a handful and literally a handful only ten
goji berries and he chewed that and that produced enough
saliva that he ate an egg the first time in
his life instead of depositing it once he had chewed it.
And then before lunch and dinner. Thank goodness, he was Korean,
so he was very accepting of soups, so he did
(19:33):
a Korean style me so soup for lunch and dinner.
And while he was able to eat all the.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Foods, that's great. Yeah, that's who I was onto something.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, exactly. That's a great story. So when you talk
about the saliva protocol, which I love the fact that
you've created a protocol for this, is it primarily food
based or are there other aspects of the saliva protocol?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
You know it is food based. However, I did discover
in traditional Chinese medicine there's tongue movements. There's four positions
of tongue. So now I've included that in the protocol
because that so quickly shifts the nervous system. And probably
you could speak, you know, volumes about the vegus nerve,
(20:19):
the twelfth the tenth nerve in our body that regulates
all the autonomic or automatic systems in our body. And often,
as you know, the vegas nerve gets hijacked because of
the stress in the world. And that's when that does.
Then saliva begins shutting down, immune system is suspended, and
(20:42):
digestive function is suspended. So I can teach you these
four movements. They're very quick. We can do it right
here on air.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I mean, let's let's do Let's take a minute
to have you describe, like maybe your favorite movement.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Okay, yeah, So it has four positions with your tongue,
so I will say them and then if you agree,
then we'll do two rounds of them and see if
we produce juiciness. So the first tongue position is at
the roof of your mouth, The second position is underneath
your bottom teeth, then your right cheek and left cheek,
(21:19):
so it goes roof bottom, right cheek, left cheek, and
you do that four times. And ideally, the traditional Chinese
medicine way is that you do it nine times to
be able to shift your vagus nerve. But for quick
purposes here, why don't we just do two rounds and
see again, you know, to the audience if they feel
(21:43):
the juiciness and some way. Yeah, And I really do think,
and I'm pushing the envelope here, but I do think
that sleep experts this is something to get on board
because I think some of the sleep issues are related
to the vegus nerve hijacked away, and so we need
to bring the vegus nerve back into positions so we
(22:06):
can produce and induce good sleep.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well, while you were talking, I was doing it and
I did, in fact produce more saliva. So I want
to remind our listeners this is just something you know.
We also we often talk about deep breathing and just
simple things people can do. So this is just I
love it, Patty, because this is so simple. So roof
of the mouth, behind the bottom teeth to the right,
(22:29):
to the left, Yes, and do it. And you're saying
in TCM traditional Chinese medicine, they say do it like
eight or nine times.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Correct exactly. And the other thing is, which I think
is funny. During COVID, I was getting all these clients
that were we would be up on zoom right to
do nutrition, and many times I would be speaking to
the mom or the woman who's a high level executive,
and she goes, I am losing it. She goes, my
(22:57):
kids are on zoom all day long for school, meet
for dinner, and there's all these fights and difficulty and
poor moods at the table. I don't care about my nutrition.
I'm more concerned about my kids. And at that point,
I said, you know what humming before a meal does
deliciousness for engaging saliva and engaging the vegas nerve. So
(23:23):
I don't know if that's something to introduce to everyone,
but a humming so hum you know, the birthday song,
whatever your favorite song is.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
So and I love it.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And I'm happy to report that families that did that
number one, they got such a kick out of the
humming of everyone that they soon began laughing. And laughing
also engages and produces the vegas nerve to come out
and saliva flow.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's awesome, Very simple things. Okay, so we have about
five minutes left. I want to talk about your renewal
kit for travelers, because that's really when you were talking
earlier about the connection between saliva and travel. I had
no idea that the saliva production is reduced by that
fifty's amazing. So what does the Renewal travel Kit do
(24:17):
for travelers?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, so I studied it and I wanted to because
of that saliva flow being cut. I wanted to know
if I could reverse the trend, if I could do
something to mitigate saliva drop that would produce a better
effect on the body and then ultimately mitigate jet like
and so what I created it. And interestingly enough, since
(24:39):
we have set all this up, I am very happy
to report I sold the company and they rebranded it
to gold Time Be ready when you get there.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Oh that's right, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
And they have three new trents and they're all whole
food space because when I created this, I wanted to
make sure if you're an Olympic athlete at a high
level executive going to speak in front of Congress, whatever
it may be, that there wasn't any nutraceutical pharmaceutical impact
of this. So it has three ingredients and the whole
(25:11):
idea is one is a chewable lozenge that is all
essentral oils and produces saliva flow. And then as you
well know and I know, and thankfully we have ce
glue thion in there.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Oh good, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
And we have an elderberry and broccoli sprouts that has
the e cetera glue de thion and selfair fane, which
also is a fancy word, but it's just it helps
the cells take out the trash, which I really think
is the secret ingredient quite frankly, and elderberry, as you
well know, and all the plethora of studies has been
(25:47):
studied to protect the lung and the respiratory tract. So
taking these three ingredients prior to getting on the flight
and then as you depart the flight helps your body
regulate that nervous system. So because the saliva flow is
happening and your body goes, oh chill, everything's good. I'm
just like I'm on earth.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah that's great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Anyway, well I want to yeah, well no, that's great,
and we only have a few minutes left, but I
want to give listeners some practical things like websites, like
where do they find out information about goal time? And
where do they find out more information about you and
your work?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yes? Yes, so the goal Time has the website of
get goal time dot com. So that's the first second
is probably LinkedIn. Quite frankly, I've been so poor on
social media. Probably embarrassing to say, but I mean I
do have a social media profile and it's just my name,
(26:45):
Patty Milligan, but most of my research or things that
I want to town cry about I put on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
That's great, Okay, so we have a couple of minutes left.
How can we take this information and use it practice.
We talked about the saliva protocol. I think that's great.
We talked about the travel what's some final advice on
how we can listen to our saliva.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Sure, I would say four times a day, check in
with your saliva. Check in to see how juicy are
You wake up in the morning and you check in
and you're like, oh gosh, I'm a little bit dry.
I'm going to take a squirt of lemon and water
before I begin my day. Get that saliva flowing right
before lunch. Now, you might have had a hectic morning
and you might have camped and shut down your saliva
(27:32):
with your nervous system. So check in right before lunch,
check in before dinner. And then check in before bed
and you can do the TCM, the traditional Chinese medicine
way to get saliva flow if you realize you're low,
or you can do one of those sleg Oh excuse me,
see amigog foods.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, and I tonight when I eat my dinner, I'm
gonna do a little I'm gonna hum a little tune
before I eat my dinner. So yeah, well this has
been great. Thank you so much Patty for joining me
and talking about this interesting conversation. Uh it's doctor Patty
Milligan on LinkedIn and it's get goaltime dot com. Check
(28:12):
it out, do the check in with your saliva four
times a day and this is perfect.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Thanks again, Patty, sure, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Have a marvelous juicy evening.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Absolutely Okay, Well that wraps up this episode of five
to Thrive Live once again. I'd like to thank our
sponsors pro Thrivers Wellness Sleep Formula, Cetria Glutathione, the superior
glutathione to support liver and immune health. Cognizantea of Colling
to help enhance memory, focus and attention, and doctor ohere
is award winning shelf stable probiotic. This has been a
(28:43):
great show. May you experience joy, laughter and love. It's
time to thrive. Everyone, have a great night.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Sh
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