December 1, 2025 • 45 mins
Omar and Jessie join Dr. Doug to share their journey from burnout and identity loss to awakening and purpose. Through their podcast A Soul’s Quest and their book A Soul’s Quest: A Transformational Approach to Life, they guide others using their PEP model—Perspective, Experience, Philosophy. This powerful episode invites listeners to explore the question “Who am I?” and begin their own soul’s quest for meaning and authenticity.
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Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Inspire Vision Podcast is broadcast on K4HD Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Do the same.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Omer Jesse, how are you doing fantastic?
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Ler doing excellent. Thank you so much for having us,
doctor Doug.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Rt to have you on the podcast. And obviously you
have your own podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yes, we do the ASQ podcast.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna have to listen to that one. Yeah, definitely,
I think we talk about a lot of similar.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Things we do.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 6 (01:16):
So what I'd love for you to do is I
really would love for you to kind of share how
you got to this point because it's always so fascinating.
I know you've had other careers and all of that
type of stuff, and what what happened in your life
you bring you to the point where you're doing what
you're doing now.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Absolutely, you want to take that over first.
Speaker 7 (01:39):
I know, I think you should take it on first.
This is sort of his baby.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
So about four years ago, after a career youth development
and management, middle management, I kind of like hit a
point in which the organization that I was with, our
values no longer aligned, you know, that were going through
a change in which I felt that the heart of
(02:07):
the organization was going away and it was being changed
by this methodical way of thinking and this way of
not really living from it within. It was more process
and outcomes and things of that nature, which although those
things are important, they were taken away from the real
job and the mission of what we were doing in
(02:28):
my opinion, and it was a it was a tough
break breakup. It's one of the soul crushing things because
you dedicate your early stage in life to find that
thing that career that's going to define your your life,
and when that dissolution comes, it takes you to for
(02:49):
for a whirlwind because your identity is no longer tied
to what you are doing. So for me, it was
soul shaking. Yeah, it was devastating, and that led to
a source quest and a source quest. The premise behind it,
it goes right into what you talked about. It's a
(03:09):
combination of ideas from psychology, philosophy, heavily influenced by mythology,
in particularly the hero's journey, because we come to a
point in which we're departing from what we're accustomed to do,
going into something that is new, and that is super scary,
very threatening because it goes at the foundation of identity
(03:32):
and when you lose that or will you perceive that
you lose that identity, two things happen. One do you
either withdraw into depression or darkness because it is so
much easier to identify with the pain, or two you
go out there in the world then go into a
quest to redefine who you are and find out what
you're going to do in the hero now, So that
(03:55):
was the foundation of what we started with a source
quest that idea that life doesn't stop life. It's a
series of transitions, a series of crisises that we face
when we're not aware that everything in the universe is
a cycle beginning an end. So that, in a nutshell,
is what the catalyst to creating a solid quest.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Well and Jesse, how do you fit into this whole thing?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Actually my story is a little bit funnier than his.
Speaker 7 (04:25):
I don't want to take away from his experience because
it was It was a lot for him at that time,
but for me it was I like to tell people
that I was very much living in the matrix. I
was normal for all intents and purposes. I was an
empty nester at this point. You know, kids are grown now.
(04:46):
I was working in higher education at that time. I
was probably there about eleven or twelve years.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
You know.
Speaker 7 (04:53):
I saw myself in like a capacity as a as
an instructor, a faculty member, you know. I I just
had my whole life planned out for me. I'm going
to retire when i'm you know, sixty two or whatever
the age is, and just going to enjoy retirement. I'm
doing great. I, you know, worked hard on my education.
I earned a terminal degree, you know, when I became
(05:16):
a doctor, I was like, oh my gosh, I've I'm
I'm a doctor. And unfortunately, it wasn't the same experience
that people think that they're going to have.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know, you go through being a really good.
Speaker 7 (05:29):
Employee, being loyal, dedicated, doing everything right for family, meeting
all the expectations, being a good wife, a good you know, mother,
a good all these things. So I was very much
living that role, and I started to see little glimpses
of like doors closing on me. And so even after
(05:50):
achieving these high achievements, right, I mean, you're getting a doctorate,
you're you're working in higher education, you're just you're you're
feeling like you're successful, your kids doing fantastic, you know,
I felt a little bit of an empty nest, like
not empty nest, empty miss so yeah, an empty nest.
So what happened for me is Omar was going through
(06:14):
his thing and we're doing this thing at the same time,
and out of nowhere, he's like, I'm going to start
a podcast and you're going to be the host. And
I was like, wait, what time out? I know, I
don't like to be on camera. I don't want to
be on a camera. I don't want to do this.
At first, I thought it was just going to be audio.
I'm like, oh okay, and he's like, no, it's video too,
and I'm like, oh god. And so we started this
(06:35):
whole thing and I still wasn't one hundred percent in.
I had one foot in, one foot out, because I
was for all intents.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
And purposes, is fine.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
And so just recently, literally just recently, I had a
lot of negative experiences with toxic work environments and a
lot of toxicity from you know, people that I worked
with or for, and it was really starting this.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Little these little holes were starting to get bigger and bigger,
and it.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
Was like coming literally like coming out of the matrix
the same way that Neo comes out of it is
the same way that I felt. I felt vulnerable and
I was just questioning everything in my life. And it
was disheartening and it was sad, and it was a
very traumatic experience for me because you have to go
it alone, you know. And I had support, right, I
(07:27):
had support from Omar because he had already gone through
this process or was going through it. But you can't
that experience. You have to do it alone. That call
to the adventure is a solo journey. It's very lonely,
and so that's basically what happened for me. I mean,
I'm saying it very lightly, but basically, I now understand
(07:50):
what a soul's quest is about. And I am one
hundred percent committed to helping other people guide other people
through this experience because it is an experience.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's a beautiful experience, you know.
Speaker 6 (08:03):
Well you know, and what's interesting And as you were
talking about your story, it reminds me of my daughter's story,
only a little bit different. She was getting a degree
in sociology and she was doing so well that they
were fast tracking her to her doctorate, and so she
went through that. I think it was three years undergrad
(08:24):
then she was moving into the graduate was getting her
master's degree, and all of a sudden, she called me
up one day and she said, Dad, I'm not sure I.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Want to go get my doctorate.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
And I'm going, well, why not, sweetie, because you know
I went to yours. I went so many years to
get my doctor's degree. And she said, because as I'm
now observing, because you're really close to the people and
they were good to her is but I'm observing what
they're going through and what they have to do on a.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Daily basis, and that's not me.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
And you know, because of my past experiences and so forth,
we've done all these personality profiling and behavioral analyzes and
so forth.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
And she's very much left her and right.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Brain, so she's very strong, well, but she's very much
right brain and loves to be with people and so forth.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
And she said, Dad, they have no time for anybody.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
They're so busy at a doctor level, trying to do
this and trying to do that. And so ultimately, bless her,
she made the decision to stop at her you know,
her message degree and then went off and got a
job that she's loving right now that has nothing to
do with her degree, although they have prepared.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Her for it.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
But you know, it's interesting how people. It's interesting how
people move forward in their lives and try to achieve
certain things because in some respects they're told that this
is what is good for us.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Too, exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And did you kind of feel that way as you
were going towards your doctorate, that this was just absolutely
that you needed to do in order to Oh, yeah.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
Able, yes, I feel like I'm so glad I do
ask that question. That's a great question, because what happens
with us is that we're so conditioned and it's almost
like we've received this to do list, this checklist of
things that you need to do in order to be
an accomplished individual, right in order to have arrived.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And we all know that we never arrive. Right.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
That in and of itself is a contradiction, because you
just don't arrive. You're always transitioning, you're always doing, You're
always going through what.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I like to call a metamorphosis. Right.
Speaker 7 (10:30):
And so for me, yeah, I was like, I'm working
in higher education. Clearly I need to get a master's degree.
And then when I got my master's degree, I was like, no,
I'm not going to go out, you know, I'm not
going to do this. But then I was like, but
I want to be like all these other people that
have PhDs, and I'm passionate about leadership and toxic work environments.
I could write my dissertation on this. This is great,
(10:53):
and then I will have arrived and they'll see me
and they'll give me a raise and a promotion and
they're gonna just love me an a dormy and I'm
just gonna be.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Everything's gonna be perfect. That didn't happen. That didn't happen
at all.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah, it's so interesting.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
I came from My dad actually taught Northwestern University there
in Chicago, Okay, and he was a passical voice teacher.
So but anyway, you know, I have four brothers. There's
five boys in the family and one one girl. She's
the youngest. And it was interesting because my dad basically
said to us, all you will get a higher degree,
(11:31):
and you're gonna pay for yourselves because I'm not paying.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
For it, which is what happened.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
So, yeah, I've got a brother that got got his
message of great at Harvard, and I've got two brothers
that are attorneys and one one brother decided not to
go to college. And my dad was so unhappy with that.
And as I talked to my brother, Now, of course
my dad's passed away, but as I talked to my brother,
he really received some very unfortunate comments from dad during
(12:00):
that time.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Now, guess who's the one in the family that owns
the jet?
Speaker 8 (12:04):
And yeah, you So it's interesting how we can be
so programmed, you know, as you shared to achieve whatever
this happens to be in our lives rather than as
you talk about.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Soul quest, I love I love that that terminology. So
as as you started to go through that process, what
what were some of the challenges you faced, What were
some of the steps you realized you had to take
in order to number want to overcome that loss, overcome
the fear of I don't know what's going to happen next,
(12:45):
and then transition, as you say, with that journey to
reach a point where you're back on target, but now
you're doing something that you really love to do and
are making a difference.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
Well, before I get into that, I want to touch
something on on what you both talked about, that that
need to belong right and society is is a structure
that is it's it's problematic, not because it's evil, but
because it is it is something that needs to function right.
(13:18):
But what happens a lot of the time is that
we live our lives as it is meant to maintain society,
rather than society working for us. You know, you mentioned
a lot of the personality tests. Those personality tests. When
you do anythingle Myers, brigs uh Pi Index, anything of
those things, it will tell you that not everyone fits
(13:42):
you know, as a doctor, as an engineer, as this.
There's artists, there's there's there's I'm an I n F
P and the Meyers brigs. So I got flowers all
over the place and a lot being alone. So society
looks for certain types of people to perform the functions
of maintaining this as the problem lies that that's only
(14:02):
a certain percentage of the population. What about the rest.
So in the education system, which I spent some times
working on, you call them the bottom twenty five percent,
So we don't pay as much attention to them. Like
your brother, you know, those were skills and sets that
needed to be nurtured for young people to be able
to find and create things that will enhance society, rather
(14:25):
I take it away from it. So we get too
cut up in the idea. And I think politicians and
our leaders need to expand their consciousness about the function
of society, which is to serve us rather than for
us to serve them or it. And that's kind of
like the problem that most people in our lives not
like if you could tell them the philosophical in the house.
She's the practical woman, right, She's the one that's practical right.
(14:49):
But one of the things that happened when you really
come to that point of confronting that dissolution of identity right,
which is what we call it, is that you have
to face it. And one of the things that you
really truly have to ask is if I am not that,
(15:09):
If I am not the functions that I play in society,
if I am not the roles of a father or
brother or sister. Those things are all important, but professional
they are very important. But when those things go away,
when the family begins to go on their own way,
when our parents begin to pass away, when a dissolution
of that, then the question is an existential question, am
(15:30):
I really right? It goes to that particular point that
then that we have to go ahead and figure out
what that looks like. And that is painful. It's not
for the faint of heart. But I always use the
analogy if you look at any any person that has
made an impact, a very important consciousness expanding impact in
(15:51):
our inner world, Buddha Jesus Muhammad moses those people had
to spend a lot of time in solitude right forty nights,
and then how to go within right to be able
to identify with something more universal. That way that you
that universality of what that is helps you transcend those things.
(16:14):
And that is the core of what most people don't
want to look into that abyss. It's like Callium talks
about if you go don't run away from your shadow,
face it, because once you face it, you start seeing
the light that actually comes from it. And that's the idea.
But it's painful. I cried a lot. You know you
(16:35):
your question is like, am I a loser? You know?
Speaker 7 (16:38):
What?
Speaker 5 (16:38):
What am I doing? Is this? Whatever? You know? You
you save money and then you lose money because you're
not sure exactly where are you going to do? And
you're thinking and you're waiting so and then you know
you you have society's noise in the back constantly. You're
not you're being irresponsible. You're not doing what you're supposed
(16:58):
to do. You should be producing, you should be busy
all the time, you should be doing this and that.
So you have all that noise constantly berating you. You
know that, waking up at three o'clock in the morning
just because your brain won't stop. You know, So all
those things is what you're feeling. And the idea is
to be able to walk with that, with that that
(17:19):
pain a little bit and ask that question constantly insight
of this, who am I?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And you know it's interesting for you. For both of you,
it had to do with your professions.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
And you know, I think for a lot of people
they may not be able to identify with that.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
But the reality is is that we all go through
different experiences in our lives.
Speaker 6 (17:41):
And I remember a number of years ago I went
through some tough experiences and ultimately it took me getting
into a process of meditation and understanding that and studying
with the top meditation teacher and all of a sudden realizing,
you know what, this is what I need to do.
This is what I really choose to do, and that process,
(18:04):
as you say, can be very difficult. But I think
for people to understand that, and I'd love for you
to share because I.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Know you work with a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
As you think about it, if it's just not work
that's causing the stress, but it's life events. How do
people number one finally come to realize that, hey, this
is what I'm going through and how do they get
to the point where they actually will take the desire,
the courage and the awareness to start that transformational journey
would have been your experiences with that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So I want to answer that really quick.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
From my perspective, Yes, a lot of the things that
I experience are what turned me to my quest. Was
a lot to do with professions and how I was
treated and how I was overlooked and door with closing.
But I also had a lot of ordinary life, you know,
experiences too. And one thing that stands out for me
(19:01):
is and Omar is the one he's you know, he's
my philosophical personal teacher. Here is I was really feeling like,
oh my god, you know, I'm I'm an empty.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Nester and I love it. I don't.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
I'm good with not having kids at home. I'm glad
that they're doing their own things and they're off, you know,
they're there.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I have a granddaughter.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
She's amazing, she's beautiful, and you know, I keep in
touch with him and we talk and whatnot. But I'm
no longer serving the purpose or the role that I was.
I'm not a mother the way I'm not needed the
way that I was needed before, right, And that was
hard for me because and I didn't realize it was
hard for me until I started realizing, oh my gosh,
(19:41):
he's doing like all his own things. He's going on
vacations and he's having these little get togethers and I'm
not invited or you know, they're going out for dinners
and I'm getting pictures, and I was really feeling like
left out, you know, and I was like crying and upset.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Like he doesn't need me. What's going on? Is he
upset with me?
Speaker 7 (19:59):
Like a lot of really crazy questions came up for
me in terms of what my role was now because
I didn't serve in the same capacity anymore. And one
of the things that Omar said to me that helped
me and pushed me towards, and this is that awareness
part that you mentioned, was that our children are not
They don't come they don't come from us.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
They go through us. Right.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
So we birth them and we guide them and we
give them the tools and the resources to become independent individuals, right,
and then they go off and they formulate their own life,
they create their own family or whatever that looks like.
So for me, that was an awareness moment, and it
wasn't easy to accept that because you always want to
(20:46):
be needed, right, but you also know that again we're
going through this hero's journey.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's a transition. And this has ended for me.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I've done.
Speaker 7 (20:56):
My role is complete when it comes to being a mother.
I'm still a mom, but I'm just a mom in
a different capacity. And that was really really difficult for me,
really difficult.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I have the fortune of always working with people, and
that's been one of the things that as a young
person deciding a career I kind of like came across that.
So I do a lot of work right now with
with males and also with uh male survivors of sexual
abuse and and and people that have unfortunately have survived
(21:29):
that that that interaction and in my interactions with men
in particular, there's a dissolution of roles. They don't you know.
It's a really challenging time right now for men to
define what what does it mean to be a man
in a in a in a place in which brute
force no longer is required, right, in which those things
(21:50):
of taming nature no longer required.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
Right.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
And so the despair and the loneliness that men feel
because we are so condition and not to express what's
going on inside us because it shows like it's a
sign of weakness or something of that nature. So I
the work that I do with Man, I see that consistently,
the questioning of I'm feeling this, but if I say it,
(22:16):
I'm going to be ridiculed, you know, if I if
I open up about Man, I'm frustrated because I can't
figure out how to interact with my kid, you know. Man,
I'm frou frustrated because I don't want to get divorced,
but I have to go through a divorce. Man, I'm
frustrated because at work, I have supervisors that I write
(22:38):
in my back you know, even though I'm doing what
I'm supposed to do. And then also all these other
things that men haven't been able to confront because our
society hasn't allowed it. So my advice to them is
always goes back to the first question. And every time
I do a presentation and every time I do some
kind of talk, I always ask that question, who am I?
(23:00):
Because again, fund foundationally, we have to be able to
be confident and comfortable exploring that question, to define it
in our own terms. Because then from that point of view,
once you discover what that looks like, it's like an epiphany.
Oh okay, you know, now you could ride your actions.
(23:21):
Now you could align your desires and the things that
you want to base on that answer. So that is
what I see when it comes to the people that
I work with. We live in a society that is
super technologically advanced. Right, we produce food at a hire
a place that any other time in history. The places
that we live are just the basic stuff. Right. You
(23:42):
could go into your shower to have a warm shower.
Yet with all those advances, why are we going to
an epidemic of mental health?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Why?
Speaker 6 (23:52):
And it's fascinating now how society has brought us to
that point. And we see such anger that this is
existing now, and you know, and and it's such a shame.
And what I want to find out from you guys, is,
you know, always reading a little bit about you use
a blend of psycho spiritual insight, which I'd love for
you to define practical tools and grounded conversation as you
(24:17):
work with people to help them, And I'd love for
the audience to kind of understand a little bit more
in depth what you do, how you use those processes,
and how it's affective for people.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Yeah, So the term psycho spiritual is a combination of
obviously some psychology and spirituality. So psychology, I love the
archetypes framework the young developed right because he shows different
aspects of what he means to be us. Right, there
is a dual nature within us and we we we
(24:51):
always we are paradox of conflicting impulses, conflicting thoughts, conflicting desires.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
Right.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
So this psychology, particularly in Ung's framework, is to be
able to understand those conflicting forces and be able to
find the balance between the two. You know, this is
what meditation is good for, to be able to see
those extremes. But this is all psychology, you know, the
archetypes of the collective unconscious, they actually symbolize energies within us.
(25:20):
Right when you look at Eric Erickson and the cycles
of life, right, very most of us don't understand that
there are different natural stages of life that we go
through from childhood to adolescens, from adolessons to young adult,
from young adult to maturity to maturity to departure. And
if we don't understand the psychology the emotions that comes
(25:45):
in those transitions, then what he just fines as a
crisis takes place.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Right.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
The more we understand, the more conscious that we are
about that crisis, the easier we can navigate through it, right,
the confused us and it's kind of let dissipate it
because we'd understand. So that's as psychology part spirituality. I
have a it's a challenge to to understand spirituality from
(26:11):
a non pop culture point of view. You know, we
say a lot of things about spirituality, which is not
feeling desires, you know, avoiding. You know, I don't want
to feel I want to be spiritual. I want to
see these angels, I want to see all this different
stuff personally speaking, and the way that we talk about it,
if spirituality is a practical thing, it's something that happens
(26:32):
in the here and now, because our lives for our
average of seventy two seventy five years, happens in the
here and now. Right in the way that I look
at spirituality is I give you the analogy of the
Sun and us. We do not exist without the sun, right,
we are an aspect of the Sun, of that energy. Right,
so it's an aspect of that. We have to understand
(26:54):
our divinity when it comes to that. But also more importantly,
how do we contribute in the here in the now?
Because everything in the universe contributes in one way or
the other. We just have to find our point of
expression by understanding all the dualities within us, find our
point of expression so that we could actually contribute in
(27:15):
the here now. And that's when you get into that
float state that wow, this is awesome. I'm enjoying this
and it could be anything. I can't tell you what
it is because it has to be yours. You know
what mine is. And what we do is that we
guide people through that process.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
And helps them to understand. You know, as you mentioned,
as you mentioned Buddha, as you mentioned Jesus, as you
were mentioning those there's what I found is there's one
common thing that comes from all of them, and that
is to become. You know, I am that I am,
and you know with Buddha, become free yourself from the suffering,
(27:55):
just become. And it's fascinating to me that some other
along the line we've forgotten that that's what it's really
all about, is to really, as you say, find out
who you really are, become and it isn't something that
you just suddenly say, oh this is who I am.
It's a process of Number one, I think overcoming all
of those imprints that have focused our lives and then
(28:19):
being able to move in a direction where we truly
become and as you say, find that sense of peace
and joy. So there's this psycho spiritual Now what are
the practical tools that you use?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
So that was the next step. That's where I come in.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
I think for us, really, when a soul's quest was born,
and as it's evolved, because it's definitely become, it's evolved tremendously.
Is what we do is we offer our own lives
and a look into what we're going through as a platform,
(28:57):
a safe platform for people to be open, express themselves.
I like to say that we offer a frequency to
people to let them into our space.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Right.
Speaker 7 (29:10):
So we call those people's soul questers because those are
the people that want to know, who are committed to
going through this through the hero's journey, right, And so
we we offer a variety of tools.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
We you know, we offer guiding. We don't call it coaching.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
We call it guiding because we guide people through this process.
I walk with people because I'm just recently going through
this transition, right, so it's really raw for me and
it's really you know, it's it's a it's been a
an eye opening experience. And I think when you allow
people to come into your space and you go with
(29:47):
them and you feel with them and you become and
you know you have that empathy because you're experiencing it
or you have experienced it, there's a different type of
relationship that happens.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
They're a bond that happens, you know.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
And so there you know the guide and from a
practical standpoint, you know, what is it that we that
we do right. There's a concept that I used that
I found actually a Greek concept called psychle pump right
and is a guide. It used to be a guide
from life to death. And so our role is really
to be able to walk along with people and let
(30:22):
them know what the post signs are to help them
understand the process of walking. We do that by courses
that we have on our on our membership, which are
really targeted at understanding the different forces that you have inside.
Like for instance, I we define the soul because the
soul has a definition, and we use the Greek definition
(30:43):
of it. So the first one is your impulses, your
natural impulses, the urge for a production that's something that
we have to understand because it's very problematic when we don't. Right.
The urge to power, which is something else that we
have inside of us, the earth urg like we talked
about society, the urge to belong to something. Those are
(31:04):
things that we need to understand because we really don't
talk about that. So some of the things that we
practically do, so we explore those aspects, right. The second
part is our emotions, right. So Jesse in her doctorate
did a lot of work with emotional intelligence. In my
work as well, I did a lot of work with
emotional intelligence. And again, the emotions are the compass that
(31:27):
kind of I tell you what the urges are doing, right,
So you have to understand the urges, and then with
the emotions right, you be able to not eliminate them,
but to be able to find the equilibrium between the
two opposing forces. So you have to understand that right.
And the final thing is understanding your thoughts and your
(31:48):
mind right. So in order for you to transform the
way that you see the world, you have to use
your mind. Our mind is the most powerful tool that
we possess. Are the only creatures on Earth that hasn't
expanded level of consciousness and expand the level of thinking.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Right.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
So we use philosophy right as a spectrum, and you
have to define what your philosophy, what we call your
approach to life that is. And it all starts by
first understanding that that you know, the mammalian brain, which
is called right, those impulses and the stuff your emotions,
and then how do you use the power of your
(32:28):
mind to focus and pay attention to what it is
that you will like to see. So the process goes
through all that because again, I've always been a lifelong seeker.
I love learning new things. But very seldom do I
see people talking about these things that we talk about
our impulse, the libido, the serpent power, as congleaning power,
(32:50):
as something that is like, eugh, you don't want to
talk about that, I'm too spiritual for that. But the
reality is that in every single religion and every single mythology,
that's an in power important power to understand because it
is the power of creation and the power of destruction.
And if we don't know how to balance that, right,
that's what problems begin to happen in our life. And
(33:11):
I had to learn all this. I had to understand
the First, I had to be able to see, like, oh,
my impulses that made me make bad decisions, you know,
that need that idea to belong. I make bad decisions
when it came to money because I wanted to feel
like I belong right, So all this thing's important to understand.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
And it's interesting is you talk about impulses and the
emotions and emotional intelligence, you know, and I love the
emotional scales that I've seen and studied. And what's fascinating
about it is that you know there will be times
that all of a sudden, I'm getting really frustrated here
in kind of number one because I don't speak the
language and they don't speak English, and miscommunication can be
(33:54):
really frustrating. But then I had to sit back and go, okay,
why what what is that? As you urge or I say,
what is that imprint within me that is causing me
to experience this emotion? And I find that that if
someone will just observe their emotions, they can suddenly realize, Okay,
(34:14):
you know what, I don't need to have this emotion,
But why am I experiencing it? And being able to
do that deep dive into that and figuring out all right,
this is why it's happening, or that's why it's happening,
and you call urges. But you know what's fascinating. Sometimes
we have no idea where they come from. They come
from childhood, which is subconscious, they come from DNA, they
(34:36):
come so from eridity, they come from epigenetics, they come
from all those things, and in many cases we have
no control over that essentially, But then we do have
the control because once we realize it and can recognize
it and become aware of it, then we can start
(34:57):
to take control. And I love how we can move
from being a victim of all of that to being
empowered by all of that. Now, you use a framework
called PEP. Could you explain to me what that is?
Speaker 5 (35:10):
Sure? So, so we still and this is going to
be this is in our book. It's so squad as
a transformational approach to life, and this is the foundation
of a other things that we do. So PEP stars
stands for perspective, experience and philosophy. Right, So one of
the things that we urge people to do is to
(35:30):
broaden their perspective. Why in your gaze right, look at
the universe? I love I love Carl Sagan, I love
our our honeymoon. We went to Kennedy Space Center. So
that does to show you like exactly how how how
we look at into the universe, because it is important
to look at the universe at nature to understand its
(35:52):
energies and understand it's it's it's how it works.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
The universe is impartial.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Right.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
You you have asteroids called lighting in space and they
go in different directions.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
You have starts that dissipate but then come back together,
and you have galaxies that come together. So when you
start looking at what in your gates and getting a
border perspective almost like as above, so below, you start
really truly understanding the cyclical nature of life. You start
understanding that nothing is evil for us. It's for us
(36:26):
to be more aware of it, which is what science does.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Science is not a religion like trying to make it.
Science is a process, right, to be able to look outside,
to be able to recognize and deduce and then be
able to formulate an approach based on that observation.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
So that's what perspectives experience is. We experience life in
many different things, in many different ways. We just talked
about it as how we respond to the stimulus from
the outside. Right, So our experiences, the things that happen
to us, we have to take all that information from
a different perspective, cosmic perspective, so that we could distill
(37:07):
exactly what not why this happened, But what is it
that I'm learning from this? Yes, because the why question,
when you think, oh, why did this happen to me,
it's a never ending question and it puts you down
in the pit. And I learned that when I was
going through all this stuff where you ask what am
I learning for this? What can I gain from this?
(37:28):
What new perspective can I get? How can I learn
and take something from this? So the experience is being
able to look at life, at the situations that happened.
How I looked that within my impulses to be able
to formulate, gain the lessons, astract the lessons from it
the experiences. Right, and then you go into philosophy, and
(37:49):
philosophy is creating your own approach to life.
Speaker 6 (37:52):
Right.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
I use in a lot of the trainings that I use,
I use Nietzchees a metamorphosis or the spirit is in
the product to those books that are two strike He
talks about the camel, the lion, the dragon, and the
k and the child. Right, and the idea that when
we're we're conditioned, we're a camel. A camel is a beast,
a bird, and put a load on me. This is
what happens because we're just pitched into existence. Right. You
(38:15):
don't choose your family, you don't choose where you were born,
you don't choose your body. The universe just pitches you. Right,
So everything is given to your social conditioning this idea.
But then you because this is something inside of you
that tells you you have to go and confront this.
And if you don't listen to that, you're you're not
going to be okay. So you go into the desert.
You get transformed into a lion, and the goal of
(38:36):
that linon needs to kill a dragon. You need to
scale of the dragon. There's a doubt, shout or you
should do this, you should do that, you should be
like this. You have to kill that dragon. And once
you do that, then you get transformed into a child. Right.
It's like in the Bible says and a child shall
lead them. Right, we have to get to a point
as a child in which we are curious again, we
(38:57):
are open to the possibilities of the universe, we are
open to the possibilities of life, and only from that
point can you really begin your quest.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Right.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
So the objective of PEP is to get you to
that launching point right in which you are understanding your experiences,
understanding that everything that happened led you to this point,
so that now you could go out there find more
about what you are, and then live from that point
of view. So those are the things that that that's
(39:27):
what that means.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Okay, And I love that.
Speaker 6 (39:29):
You know, as you talk, I think about this concept
that I just learned from one of my other podcasts
that you know, our experiences are there to teach us.
You know, we can either become a victim of our
experiences or we can allow that to teach us. And
as we allow that to teach us, and as you say,
as you get back to that final P and realize that, Okay,
(39:52):
I can actually use these and develop a gift and
the develop and ability to help.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
And it's just like what you guys want through with
your story.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
I mean, here you are now and you've done all
of the study, and you've done all of this stuff.
And you've used that event or those events to develop
a gift that then you give to other people. And
that perspective I think is so important for people to understand.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
You know. And and what that leads to is again,
I'm the philosophy, I'm the nerd in the family. Is
in Hinduism, there's the web of Indra, the web of gem, right,
that idea, and then every every intersection of a of
a of a web of a net, there's a gem.
That gem is us. So we reflect who we are
(40:40):
from that gem, and that reflection affects everything around us. Right,
So that we're not advocating you're going to go ahead
and change the world. Is what when you begin to
live from you, you automatically radiates and everything around you
gets affected by it.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
And the idea is that it doesn't matter what you do.
Speaker 7 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Again, our point of expression is a resous quest. Right. It
could be you making the best sandwich that ever existed,
you know, or you have to find that for you.
I can't prescribe to go into real estate and do
this and do that. It's like the beauty of life
is in the diversity of life. Right. You go in
(41:21):
nature and you see all the beautiful colors and everything
else that's out there. You have that as well, right,
and you have to we have to help people get
to that. And again, unfortunately, in my experience with the
education system, going through it and working in it, that's
not what we do. We actually are taking away the
(41:43):
beauty of what it means to be a human being,
and we are creating functions things that this is who
you are. And then and we have to shift that,
you know, we have to shift that.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
So true, so true.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
And you know, the thought that comes to my mind
and the question that comes to my mind with your
book Assault Quest, Okay, when people read that book, what
are they going to gain?
Speaker 4 (42:07):
What you're going to do for them?
Speaker 7 (42:09):
Essentially, what we've talked about today, what we do is
what or what we've done, is we've taken all of
the thoughts that we've talked about today, all of the processes,
the experiences, the shadow work, the integration, the hero's journey
is in those pages, and we invite the reader into
(42:30):
taking this quest, taking this journey.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
It's it's a transformational approach to life.
Speaker 7 (42:36):
We're trying to get people to understand we're bringing them
into our world, into our experiences so that they can
now take a journey of their own, a quest of
their own.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
Okay, And it goes back to also to be an aware, right, Yeah,
it's being aware. I mean, if I had to boil
it down to one thing, it's like, you know, the
more you know, the more you're able to understand things
and life, the better that the better you could discover
where you fit in, you know, independently, like Wayne Dyer said,
(43:09):
independently of the good opinion of other people.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, so how do people find your book?
Speaker 7 (43:14):
Well, we are going to be launching our book and
I think we're doing it.
Speaker 5 (43:19):
And our book is out already, our book, Yeah, okay,
it's out already, and they could go to s Q
empowerment dot com. You'll be able to see the book
in there. You'll be able to connect with us. We
we we do what do you call it, some some
lessons that we put out on the regular basis. But
if you want to take a look at the book,
(43:40):
just go to our website at sq empowerment dot com
and just stay connected with us. We'd love to hear.
Speaker 6 (43:45):
Okay, so say that a little slower, please here your website.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
It's a SQ empowerment dot Com.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
Okay, because I have a soul quest a Soul's quest
dot com.
Speaker 7 (43:59):
Yeah, well we where we're integrating. Yeah, it's eight Oh
really okay, Yeah, it's ASQ empowerment dot Com.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Sorry for that.
Speaker 7 (44:08):
Yeah, And our book will be available at this point, yes,
and you can find it on our website and with
all the other materials and curriculum. You know, people can
be members, uh and receive our newsletters interact with us.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
That's great, and that was gonna be my next question.
So going to that website, they can find you, they
can find your book. That's wonderful, and so kind of
as we close, what would be a final message that
you want to share with the audience.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
The final message will be listen to that voice inside.
There's a voice that tells you when you're on the path,
and there's a voice that tells you that you're on
the path. It tells you by how the way you
feel your emotions. Well that listen to that voice, follow
that voice, and explore more importantly, the question as to
who am I explore that question, see what answers should
(44:57):
come up, and I challenge you to go beyond on
the normal responses go beyond your roles, go beyond your functions,
and find a deeper meaning of who you truly are.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
I love it. Well, guys, thanks so much. This has
been a great conversation. I love it.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Thank you so much for having us. It's been a
great conversation.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
Thank you well.
Speaker 6 (45:17):
I really appreciate it. Folks, thanks for listening. I hope
you've enjoyed it and we look forward to having you
join us again soon. And this is doctor Doug saying,
now must day I
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Must say thank you.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Do the same.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Omer Jesse, how are you doing fantastic?
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Ler doing excellent. Thank you so much for having us,
doctor Doug.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Rt to have you on the podcast. And obviously you
have your own podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yes, we do the ASQ podcast.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna have to listen to that one. Yeah, definitely,
I think we talk about a lot of similar.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Things we do.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 6 (01:16):
So what I'd love for you to do is I
really would love for you to kind of share how
you got to this point because it's always so fascinating.
I know you've had other careers and all of that
type of stuff, and what what happened in your life
you bring you to the point where you're doing what
you're doing now.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Absolutely, you want to take that over first.
Speaker 7 (01:39):
I know, I think you should take it on first.
This is sort of his baby.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
So about four years ago, after a career youth development
and management, middle management, I kind of like hit a
point in which the organization that I was with, our
values no longer aligned, you know, that were going through
a change in which I felt that the heart of
(02:07):
the organization was going away and it was being changed
by this methodical way of thinking and this way of
not really living from it within. It was more process
and outcomes and things of that nature, which although those
things are important, they were taken away from the real
job and the mission of what we were doing in
(02:28):
my opinion, and it was a it was a tough
break breakup. It's one of the soul crushing things because
you dedicate your early stage in life to find that
thing that career that's going to define your your life,
and when that dissolution comes, it takes you to for
(02:49):
for a whirlwind because your identity is no longer tied
to what you are doing. So for me, it was
soul shaking. Yeah, it was devastating, and that led to
a source quest and a source quest. The premise behind it,
it goes right into what you talked about. It's a
(03:09):
combination of ideas from psychology, philosophy, heavily influenced by mythology,
in particularly the hero's journey, because we come to a
point in which we're departing from what we're accustomed to do,
going into something that is new, and that is super scary,
very threatening because it goes at the foundation of identity
(03:32):
and when you lose that or will you perceive that
you lose that identity, two things happen. One do you
either withdraw into depression or darkness because it is so
much easier to identify with the pain, or two you
go out there in the world then go into a
quest to redefine who you are and find out what
you're going to do in the hero now, So that
(03:55):
was the foundation of what we started with a source
quest that idea that life doesn't stop life. It's a
series of transitions, a series of crisises that we face
when we're not aware that everything in the universe is
a cycle beginning an end. So that, in a nutshell,
is what the catalyst to creating a solid quest.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Well and Jesse, how do you fit into this whole thing?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Actually my story is a little bit funnier than his.
Speaker 7 (04:25):
I don't want to take away from his experience because
it was It was a lot for him at that time,
but for me it was I like to tell people
that I was very much living in the matrix. I
was normal for all intents and purposes. I was an
empty nester at this point. You know, kids are grown now.
(04:46):
I was working in higher education at that time. I
was probably there about eleven or twelve years.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
You know.
Speaker 7 (04:53):
I saw myself in like a capacity as a as
an instructor, a faculty member, you know. I I just
had my whole life planned out for me. I'm going
to retire when i'm you know, sixty two or whatever
the age is, and just going to enjoy retirement. I'm
doing great. I, you know, worked hard on my education.
I earned a terminal degree, you know, when I became
(05:16):
a doctor, I was like, oh my gosh, I've I'm
I'm a doctor. And unfortunately, it wasn't the same experience
that people think that they're going to have.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know, you go through being a really good.
Speaker 7 (05:29):
Employee, being loyal, dedicated, doing everything right for family, meeting
all the expectations, being a good wife, a good you know, mother,
a good all these things. So I was very much
living that role, and I started to see little glimpses
of like doors closing on me. And so even after
(05:50):
achieving these high achievements, right, I mean, you're getting a doctorate,
you're you're working in higher education, you're just you're you're
feeling like you're successful, your kids doing fantastic, you know,
I felt a little bit of an empty nest, like
not empty nest, empty miss so yeah, an empty nest.
So what happened for me is Omar was going through
(06:14):
his thing and we're doing this thing at the same time,
and out of nowhere, he's like, I'm going to start
a podcast and you're going to be the host. And
I was like, wait, what time out? I know, I
don't like to be on camera. I don't want to
be on a camera. I don't want to do this.
At first, I thought it was just going to be audio.
I'm like, oh okay, and he's like, no, it's video too,
and I'm like, oh god. And so we started this
(06:35):
whole thing and I still wasn't one hundred percent in.
I had one foot in, one foot out, because I
was for all intents.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
And purposes, is fine.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
And so just recently, literally just recently, I had a
lot of negative experiences with toxic work environments and a
lot of toxicity from you know, people that I worked
with or for, and it was really starting this.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Little these little holes were starting to get bigger and bigger,
and it.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
Was like coming literally like coming out of the matrix
the same way that Neo comes out of it is
the same way that I felt. I felt vulnerable and
I was just questioning everything in my life. And it
was disheartening and it was sad, and it was a
very traumatic experience for me because you have to go
it alone, you know. And I had support, right, I
(07:27):
had support from Omar because he had already gone through
this process or was going through it. But you can't
that experience. You have to do it alone. That call
to the adventure is a solo journey. It's very lonely,
and so that's basically what happened for me. I mean,
I'm saying it very lightly, but basically, I now understand
(07:50):
what a soul's quest is about. And I am one
hundred percent committed to helping other people guide other people
through this experience because it is an experience.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's a beautiful experience, you know.
Speaker 6 (08:03):
Well you know, and what's interesting And as you were
talking about your story, it reminds me of my daughter's story,
only a little bit different. She was getting a degree
in sociology and she was doing so well that they
were fast tracking her to her doctorate, and so she
went through that. I think it was three years undergrad
(08:24):
then she was moving into the graduate was getting her
master's degree, and all of a sudden, she called me
up one day and she said, Dad, I'm not sure I.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Want to go get my doctorate.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
And I'm going, well, why not, sweetie, because you know
I went to yours. I went so many years to
get my doctor's degree. And she said, because as I'm
now observing, because you're really close to the people and
they were good to her is but I'm observing what
they're going through and what they have to do on a.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Daily basis, and that's not me.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
And you know, because of my past experiences and so forth,
we've done all these personality profiling and behavioral analyzes and
so forth.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
And she's very much left her and right.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Brain, so she's very strong, well, but she's very much
right brain and loves to be with people and so forth.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
And she said, Dad, they have no time for anybody.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
They're so busy at a doctor level, trying to do
this and trying to do that. And so ultimately, bless her,
she made the decision to stop at her you know,
her message degree and then went off and got a
job that she's loving right now that has nothing to
do with her degree, although they have prepared.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Her for it.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
But you know, it's interesting how people. It's interesting how
people move forward in their lives and try to achieve
certain things because in some respects they're told that this
is what is good for us.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Too, exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And did you kind of feel that way as you
were going towards your doctorate, that this was just absolutely
that you needed to do in order to Oh, yeah.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
Able, yes, I feel like I'm so glad I do
ask that question. That's a great question, because what happens
with us is that we're so conditioned and it's almost
like we've received this to do list, this checklist of
things that you need to do in order to be
an accomplished individual, right in order to have arrived.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And we all know that we never arrive. Right.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
That in and of itself is a contradiction, because you
just don't arrive. You're always transitioning, you're always doing, You're
always going through what.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I like to call a metamorphosis. Right.
Speaker 7 (10:30):
And so for me, yeah, I was like, I'm working
in higher education. Clearly I need to get a master's degree.
And then when I got my master's degree, I was like, no,
I'm not going to go out, you know, I'm not
going to do this. But then I was like, but
I want to be like all these other people that
have PhDs, and I'm passionate about leadership and toxic work environments.
I could write my dissertation on this. This is great,
(10:53):
and then I will have arrived and they'll see me
and they'll give me a raise and a promotion and
they're gonna just love me an a dormy and I'm
just gonna be.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Everything's gonna be perfect. That didn't happen. That didn't happen
at all.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah, it's so interesting.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
I came from My dad actually taught Northwestern University there
in Chicago, Okay, and he was a passical voice teacher.
So but anyway, you know, I have four brothers. There's
five boys in the family and one one girl. She's
the youngest. And it was interesting because my dad basically
said to us, all you will get a higher degree,
(11:31):
and you're gonna pay for yourselves because I'm not paying.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
For it, which is what happened.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
So, yeah, I've got a brother that got got his
message of great at Harvard, and I've got two brothers
that are attorneys and one one brother decided not to
go to college. And my dad was so unhappy with that.
And as I talked to my brother, Now, of course
my dad's passed away, but as I talked to my brother,
he really received some very unfortunate comments from dad during
(12:00):
that time.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Now, guess who's the one in the family that owns
the jet?
Speaker 8 (12:04):
And yeah, you So it's interesting how we can be
so programmed, you know, as you shared to achieve whatever
this happens to be in our lives rather than as
you talk about.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Soul quest, I love I love that that terminology. So
as as you started to go through that process, what
what were some of the challenges you faced, What were
some of the steps you realized you had to take
in order to number want to overcome that loss, overcome
the fear of I don't know what's going to happen next,
(12:45):
and then transition, as you say, with that journey to
reach a point where you're back on target, but now
you're doing something that you really love to do and
are making a difference.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
Well, before I get into that, I want to touch
something on on what you both talked about, that that
need to belong right and society is is a structure
that is it's it's problematic, not because it's evil, but
because it is it is something that needs to function right.
(13:18):
But what happens a lot of the time is that
we live our lives as it is meant to maintain society,
rather than society working for us. You know, you mentioned
a lot of the personality tests. Those personality tests. When
you do anythingle Myers, brigs uh Pi Index, anything of
those things, it will tell you that not everyone fits
(13:42):
you know, as a doctor, as an engineer, as this.
There's artists, there's there's there's I'm an I n F
P and the Meyers brigs. So I got flowers all
over the place and a lot being alone. So society
looks for certain types of people to perform the functions
of maintaining this as the problem lies that that's only
(14:02):
a certain percentage of the population. What about the rest.
So in the education system, which I spent some times
working on, you call them the bottom twenty five percent,
So we don't pay as much attention to them. Like
your brother, you know, those were skills and sets that
needed to be nurtured for young people to be able
to find and create things that will enhance society, rather
(14:25):
I take it away from it. So we get too
cut up in the idea. And I think politicians and
our leaders need to expand their consciousness about the function
of society, which is to serve us rather than for
us to serve them or it. And that's kind of
like the problem that most people in our lives not
like if you could tell them the philosophical in the house.
She's the practical woman, right, She's the one that's practical right.
(14:49):
But one of the things that happened when you really
come to that point of confronting that dissolution of identity right,
which is what we call it, is that you have
to face it. And one of the things that you
really truly have to ask is if I am not that,
(15:09):
If I am not the functions that I play in society,
if I am not the roles of a father or
brother or sister. Those things are all important, but professional
they are very important. But when those things go away,
when the family begins to go on their own way,
when our parents begin to pass away, when a dissolution
of that, then the question is an existential question, am
(15:30):
I really right? It goes to that particular point that
then that we have to go ahead and figure out
what that looks like. And that is painful. It's not
for the faint of heart. But I always use the
analogy if you look at any any person that has
made an impact, a very important consciousness expanding impact in
(15:51):
our inner world, Buddha Jesus Muhammad moses those people had
to spend a lot of time in solitude right forty nights,
and then how to go within right to be able
to identify with something more universal. That way that you
that universality of what that is helps you transcend those things.
(16:14):
And that is the core of what most people don't
want to look into that abyss. It's like Callium talks
about if you go don't run away from your shadow,
face it, because once you face it, you start seeing
the light that actually comes from it. And that's the idea.
But it's painful. I cried a lot. You know you
(16:35):
your question is like, am I a loser? You know?
Speaker 7 (16:38):
What?
Speaker 5 (16:38):
What am I doing? Is this? Whatever? You know? You
you save money and then you lose money because you're
not sure exactly where are you going to do? And
you're thinking and you're waiting so and then you know
you you have society's noise in the back constantly. You're
not you're being irresponsible. You're not doing what you're supposed
(16:58):
to do. You should be producing, you should be busy
all the time, you should be doing this and that.
So you have all that noise constantly berating you. You
know that, waking up at three o'clock in the morning
just because your brain won't stop. You know, So all
those things is what you're feeling. And the idea is
to be able to walk with that, with that that
(17:19):
pain a little bit and ask that question constantly insight
of this, who am I?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And you know it's interesting for you. For both of you,
it had to do with your professions.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
And you know, I think for a lot of people
they may not be able to identify with that.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
But the reality is is that we all go through
different experiences in our lives.
Speaker 6 (17:41):
And I remember a number of years ago I went
through some tough experiences and ultimately it took me getting
into a process of meditation and understanding that and studying
with the top meditation teacher and all of a sudden realizing,
you know what, this is what I need to do.
This is what I really choose to do, and that process,
(18:04):
as you say, can be very difficult. But I think
for people to understand that, and I'd love for you
to share because I.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Know you work with a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
As you think about it, if it's just not work
that's causing the stress, but it's life events. How do
people number one finally come to realize that, hey, this
is what I'm going through and how do they get
to the point where they actually will take the desire,
the courage and the awareness to start that transformational journey
would have been your experiences with that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So I want to answer that really quick.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
From my perspective, Yes, a lot of the things that
I experience are what turned me to my quest. Was
a lot to do with professions and how I was
treated and how I was overlooked and door with closing.
But I also had a lot of ordinary life, you know,
experiences too. And one thing that stands out for me
(19:01):
is and Omar is the one he's you know, he's
my philosophical personal teacher. Here is I was really feeling like,
oh my god, you know, I'm I'm an empty.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Nester and I love it. I don't.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
I'm good with not having kids at home. I'm glad
that they're doing their own things and they're off, you know,
they're there.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I have a granddaughter.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
She's amazing, she's beautiful, and you know, I keep in
touch with him and we talk and whatnot. But I'm
no longer serving the purpose or the role that I was.
I'm not a mother the way I'm not needed the
way that I was needed before, right, And that was
hard for me because and I didn't realize it was
hard for me until I started realizing, oh my gosh,
(19:41):
he's doing like all his own things. He's going on
vacations and he's having these little get togethers and I'm
not invited or you know, they're going out for dinners
and I'm getting pictures, and I was really feeling like
left out, you know, and I was like crying and upset.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Like he doesn't need me. What's going on? Is he
upset with me?
Speaker 7 (19:59):
Like a lot of really crazy questions came up for
me in terms of what my role was now because
I didn't serve in the same capacity anymore. And one
of the things that Omar said to me that helped
me and pushed me towards, and this is that awareness
part that you mentioned, was that our children are not
They don't come they don't come from us.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
They go through us. Right.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
So we birth them and we guide them and we
give them the tools and the resources to become independent individuals, right,
and then they go off and they formulate their own life,
they create their own family or whatever that looks like.
So for me, that was an awareness moment, and it
wasn't easy to accept that because you always want to
(20:46):
be needed, right, but you also know that again we're
going through this hero's journey.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's a transition. And this has ended for me.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I've done.
Speaker 7 (20:56):
My role is complete when it comes to being a mother.
I'm still a mom, but I'm just a mom in
a different capacity. And that was really really difficult for me,
really difficult.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I have the fortune of always working with people, and
that's been one of the things that as a young
person deciding a career I kind of like came across that.
So I do a lot of work right now with
with males and also with uh male survivors of sexual
abuse and and and people that have unfortunately have survived
(21:29):
that that that interaction and in my interactions with men
in particular, there's a dissolution of roles. They don't you know.
It's a really challenging time right now for men to
define what what does it mean to be a man
in a in a in a place in which brute
force no longer is required, right, in which those things
(21:50):
of taming nature no longer required.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
Right.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
And so the despair and the loneliness that men feel
because we are so condition and not to express what's
going on inside us because it shows like it's a
sign of weakness or something of that nature. So I
the work that I do with Man, I see that consistently,
the questioning of I'm feeling this, but if I say it,
(22:16):
I'm going to be ridiculed, you know, if I if
I open up about Man, I'm frustrated because I can't
figure out how to interact with my kid, you know. Man,
I'm frou frustrated because I don't want to get divorced,
but I have to go through a divorce. Man, I'm
frustrated because at work, I have supervisors that I write
(22:38):
in my back you know, even though I'm doing what
I'm supposed to do. And then also all these other
things that men haven't been able to confront because our
society hasn't allowed it. So my advice to them is
always goes back to the first question. And every time
I do a presentation and every time I do some
kind of talk, I always ask that question, who am I?
(23:00):
Because again, fund foundationally, we have to be able to
be confident and comfortable exploring that question, to define it
in our own terms. Because then from that point of view,
once you discover what that looks like, it's like an epiphany.
Oh okay, you know, now you could ride your actions.
(23:21):
Now you could align your desires and the things that
you want to base on that answer. So that is
what I see when it comes to the people that
I work with. We live in a society that is
super technologically advanced. Right, we produce food at a hire
a place that any other time in history. The places
that we live are just the basic stuff. Right. You
(23:42):
could go into your shower to have a warm shower.
Yet with all those advances, why are we going to
an epidemic of mental health?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Why?
Speaker 6 (23:52):
And it's fascinating now how society has brought us to
that point. And we see such anger that this is
existing now, and you know, and and it's such a shame.
And what I want to find out from you guys, is,
you know, always reading a little bit about you use
a blend of psycho spiritual insight, which I'd love for
you to define practical tools and grounded conversation as you
(24:17):
work with people to help them, And I'd love for
the audience to kind of understand a little bit more
in depth what you do, how you use those processes,
and how it's affective for people.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Yeah, So the term psycho spiritual is a combination of
obviously some psychology and spirituality. So psychology, I love the
archetypes framework the young developed right because he shows different
aspects of what he means to be us. Right, there
is a dual nature within us and we we we
(24:51):
always we are paradox of conflicting impulses, conflicting thoughts, conflicting desires.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
Right.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
So this psychology, particularly in Ung's framework, is to be
able to understand those conflicting forces and be able to
find the balance between the two. You know, this is
what meditation is good for, to be able to see
those extremes. But this is all psychology, you know, the
archetypes of the collective unconscious, they actually symbolize energies within us.
(25:20):
Right when you look at Eric Erickson and the cycles
of life, right, very most of us don't understand that
there are different natural stages of life that we go
through from childhood to adolescens, from adolessons to young adult,
from young adult to maturity to maturity to departure. And
if we don't understand the psychology the emotions that comes
(25:45):
in those transitions, then what he just fines as a
crisis takes place.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Right.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
The more we understand, the more conscious that we are
about that crisis, the easier we can navigate through it, right,
the confused us and it's kind of let dissipate it
because we'd understand. So that's as psychology part spirituality. I
have a it's a challenge to to understand spirituality from
(26:11):
a non pop culture point of view. You know, we
say a lot of things about spirituality, which is not
feeling desires, you know, avoiding. You know, I don't want
to feel I want to be spiritual. I want to
see these angels, I want to see all this different
stuff personally speaking, and the way that we talk about it,
if spirituality is a practical thing, it's something that happens
(26:32):
in the here and now, because our lives for our
average of seventy two seventy five years, happens in the
here and now. Right in the way that I look
at spirituality is I give you the analogy of the
Sun and us. We do not exist without the sun, right,
we are an aspect of the Sun, of that energy. Right,
so it's an aspect of that. We have to understand
(26:54):
our divinity when it comes to that. But also more importantly,
how do we contribute in the here in the now?
Because everything in the universe contributes in one way or
the other. We just have to find our point of
expression by understanding all the dualities within us, find our
point of expression so that we could actually contribute in
(27:15):
the here now. And that's when you get into that
float state that wow, this is awesome. I'm enjoying this
and it could be anything. I can't tell you what
it is because it has to be yours. You know
what mine is. And what we do is that we
guide people through that process.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
And helps them to understand. You know, as you mentioned,
as you mentioned Buddha, as you mentioned Jesus, as you
were mentioning those there's what I found is there's one
common thing that comes from all of them, and that
is to become. You know, I am that I am,
and you know with Buddha, become free yourself from the suffering,
(27:55):
just become. And it's fascinating to me that some other
along the line we've forgotten that that's what it's really
all about, is to really, as you say, find out
who you really are, become and it isn't something that
you just suddenly say, oh this is who I am.
It's a process of Number one, I think overcoming all
of those imprints that have focused our lives and then
(28:19):
being able to move in a direction where we truly
become and as you say, find that sense of peace
and joy. So there's this psycho spiritual Now what are
the practical tools that you use?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
So that was the next step. That's where I come in.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
I think for us, really, when a soul's quest was born,
and as it's evolved, because it's definitely become, it's evolved tremendously.
Is what we do is we offer our own lives
and a look into what we're going through as a platform,
(28:57):
a safe platform for people to be open, express themselves.
I like to say that we offer a frequency to
people to let them into our space.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Right.
Speaker 7 (29:10):
So we call those people's soul questers because those are
the people that want to know, who are committed to
going through this through the hero's journey, right, And so
we we offer a variety of tools.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
We you know, we offer guiding. We don't call it coaching.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
We call it guiding because we guide people through this process.
I walk with people because I'm just recently going through
this transition, right, so it's really raw for me and
it's really you know, it's it's a it's been a
an eye opening experience. And I think when you allow
people to come into your space and you go with
(29:47):
them and you feel with them and you become and
you know you have that empathy because you're experiencing it
or you have experienced it, there's a different type of
relationship that happens.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
They're a bond that happens, you know.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
And so there you know the guide and from a
practical standpoint, you know, what is it that we that
we do right. There's a concept that I used that
I found actually a Greek concept called psychle pump right
and is a guide. It used to be a guide
from life to death. And so our role is really
to be able to walk along with people and let
(30:22):
them know what the post signs are to help them
understand the process of walking. We do that by courses
that we have on our on our membership, which are
really targeted at understanding the different forces that you have inside.
Like for instance, I we define the soul because the
soul has a definition, and we use the Greek definition
(30:43):
of it. So the first one is your impulses, your
natural impulses, the urge for a production that's something that
we have to understand because it's very problematic when we don't. Right.
The urge to power, which is something else that we
have inside of us, the earth urg like we talked
about society, the urge to belong to something. Those are
(31:04):
things that we need to understand because we really don't
talk about that. So some of the things that we
practically do, so we explore those aspects, right. The second
part is our emotions, right. So Jesse in her doctorate
did a lot of work with emotional intelligence. In my
work as well, I did a lot of work with
emotional intelligence. And again, the emotions are the compass that
(31:27):
kind of I tell you what the urges are doing, right,
So you have to understand the urges, and then with
the emotions right, you be able to not eliminate them,
but to be able to find the equilibrium between the
two opposing forces. So you have to understand that right.
And the final thing is understanding your thoughts and your
(31:48):
mind right. So in order for you to transform the
way that you see the world, you have to use
your mind. Our mind is the most powerful tool that
we possess. Are the only creatures on Earth that hasn't
expanded level of consciousness and expand the level of thinking.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Right.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
So we use philosophy right as a spectrum, and you
have to define what your philosophy, what we call your
approach to life that is. And it all starts by
first understanding that that you know, the mammalian brain, which
is called right, those impulses and the stuff your emotions,
and then how do you use the power of your
(32:28):
mind to focus and pay attention to what it is
that you will like to see. So the process goes
through all that because again, I've always been a lifelong seeker.
I love learning new things. But very seldom do I
see people talking about these things that we talk about
our impulse, the libido, the serpent power, as congleaning power,
(32:50):
as something that is like, eugh, you don't want to
talk about that, I'm too spiritual for that. But the
reality is that in every single religion and every single mythology,
that's an in power important power to understand because it
is the power of creation and the power of destruction.
And if we don't know how to balance that, right,
that's what problems begin to happen in our life. And
(33:11):
I had to learn all this. I had to understand
the First, I had to be able to see, like, oh,
my impulses that made me make bad decisions, you know,
that need that idea to belong. I make bad decisions
when it came to money because I wanted to feel
like I belong right, So all this thing's important to understand.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
And it's interesting is you talk about impulses and the
emotions and emotional intelligence, you know, and I love the
emotional scales that I've seen and studied. And what's fascinating
about it is that you know there will be times
that all of a sudden, I'm getting really frustrated here
in kind of number one because I don't speak the
language and they don't speak English, and miscommunication can be
(33:54):
really frustrating. But then I had to sit back and go, okay,
why what what is that? As you urge or I say,
what is that imprint within me that is causing me
to experience this emotion? And I find that that if
someone will just observe their emotions, they can suddenly realize, Okay,
(34:14):
you know what, I don't need to have this emotion,
But why am I experiencing it? And being able to
do that deep dive into that and figuring out all right,
this is why it's happening, or that's why it's happening,
and you call urges. But you know what's fascinating. Sometimes
we have no idea where they come from. They come
from childhood, which is subconscious, they come from DNA, they
(34:36):
come so from eridity, they come from epigenetics, they come
from all those things, and in many cases we have
no control over that essentially, But then we do have
the control because once we realize it and can recognize
it and become aware of it, then we can start
(34:57):
to take control. And I love how we can move
from being a victim of all of that to being
empowered by all of that. Now, you use a framework
called PEP. Could you explain to me what that is?
Speaker 5 (35:10):
Sure? So, so we still and this is going to
be this is in our book. It's so squad as
a transformational approach to life, and this is the foundation
of a other things that we do. So PEP stars
stands for perspective, experience and philosophy. Right, So one of
the things that we urge people to do is to
(35:30):
broaden their perspective. Why in your gaze right, look at
the universe? I love I love Carl Sagan, I love
our our honeymoon. We went to Kennedy Space Center. So
that does to show you like exactly how how how
we look at into the universe, because it is important
to look at the universe at nature to understand its
(35:52):
energies and understand it's it's it's how it works.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
The universe is impartial.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Right.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
You you have asteroids called lighting in space and they
go in different directions.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
You have starts that dissipate but then come back together,
and you have galaxies that come together. So when you
start looking at what in your gates and getting a
border perspective almost like as above, so below, you start
really truly understanding the cyclical nature of life. You start
understanding that nothing is evil for us. It's for us
(36:26):
to be more aware of it, which is what science does.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Science is not a religion like trying to make it.
Science is a process, right, to be able to look outside,
to be able to recognize and deduce and then be
able to formulate an approach based on that observation.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
So that's what perspectives experience is. We experience life in
many different things, in many different ways. We just talked
about it as how we respond to the stimulus from
the outside. Right, So our experiences, the things that happen
to us, we have to take all that information from
a different perspective, cosmic perspective, so that we could distill
(37:07):
exactly what not why this happened, But what is it
that I'm learning from this? Yes, because the why question,
when you think, oh, why did this happen to me,
it's a never ending question and it puts you down
in the pit. And I learned that when I was
going through all this stuff where you ask what am
I learning for this? What can I gain from this?
(37:28):
What new perspective can I get? How can I learn
and take something from this? So the experience is being
able to look at life, at the situations that happened.
How I looked that within my impulses to be able
to formulate, gain the lessons, astract the lessons from it
the experiences. Right, and then you go into philosophy, and
(37:49):
philosophy is creating your own approach to life.
Speaker 6 (37:52):
Right.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
I use in a lot of the trainings that I use,
I use Nietzchees a metamorphosis or the spirit is in
the product to those books that are two strike He
talks about the camel, the lion, the dragon, and the
k and the child. Right, and the idea that when
we're we're conditioned, we're a camel. A camel is a beast,
a bird, and put a load on me. This is
what happens because we're just pitched into existence. Right. You
(38:15):
don't choose your family, you don't choose where you were born,
you don't choose your body. The universe just pitches you. Right,
So everything is given to your social conditioning this idea.
But then you because this is something inside of you
that tells you you have to go and confront this.
And if you don't listen to that, you're you're not
going to be okay. So you go into the desert.
You get transformed into a lion, and the goal of
(38:36):
that linon needs to kill a dragon. You need to
scale of the dragon. There's a doubt, shout or you
should do this, you should do that, you should be
like this. You have to kill that dragon. And once
you do that, then you get transformed into a child. Right.
It's like in the Bible says and a child shall
lead them. Right, we have to get to a point
as a child in which we are curious again, we
(38:57):
are open to the possibilities of the universe, we are
open to the possibilities of life, and only from that
point can you really begin your quest.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Right.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
So the objective of PEP is to get you to
that launching point right in which you are understanding your experiences,
understanding that everything that happened led you to this point,
so that now you could go out there find more
about what you are, and then live from that point
of view. So those are the things that that that's
(39:27):
what that means.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Okay, And I love that.
Speaker 6 (39:29):
You know, as you talk, I think about this concept
that I just learned from one of my other podcasts
that you know, our experiences are there to teach us.
You know, we can either become a victim of our
experiences or we can allow that to teach us. And
as we allow that to teach us, and as you say,
as you get back to that final P and realize that, Okay,
(39:52):
I can actually use these and develop a gift and
the develop and ability to help.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
And it's just like what you guys want through with
your story.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
I mean, here you are now and you've done all
of the study, and you've done all of this stuff.
And you've used that event or those events to develop
a gift that then you give to other people. And
that perspective I think is so important for people to understand.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
You know. And and what that leads to is again,
I'm the philosophy, I'm the nerd in the family. Is
in Hinduism, there's the web of Indra, the web of gem, right,
that idea, and then every every intersection of a of
a of a web of a net, there's a gem.
That gem is us. So we reflect who we are
(40:40):
from that gem, and that reflection affects everything around us. Right,
So that we're not advocating you're going to go ahead
and change the world. Is what when you begin to
live from you, you automatically radiates and everything around you
gets affected by it.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
And the idea is that it doesn't matter what you do.
Speaker 7 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Again, our point of expression is a resous quest. Right. It
could be you making the best sandwich that ever existed,
you know, or you have to find that for you.
I can't prescribe to go into real estate and do
this and do that. It's like the beauty of life
is in the diversity of life. Right. You go in
(41:21):
nature and you see all the beautiful colors and everything
else that's out there. You have that as well, right,
and you have to we have to help people get
to that. And again, unfortunately, in my experience with the
education system, going through it and working in it, that's
not what we do. We actually are taking away the
(41:43):
beauty of what it means to be a human being,
and we are creating functions things that this is who
you are. And then and we have to shift that,
you know, we have to shift that.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
So true, so true.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
And you know, the thought that comes to my mind
and the question that comes to my mind with your
book Assault Quest, Okay, when people read that book, what
are they going to gain?
Speaker 4 (42:07):
What you're going to do for them?
Speaker 7 (42:09):
Essentially, what we've talked about today, what we do is
what or what we've done, is we've taken all of
the thoughts that we've talked about today, all of the processes,
the experiences, the shadow work, the integration, the hero's journey
is in those pages, and we invite the reader into
(42:30):
taking this quest, taking this journey.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
It's it's a transformational approach to life.
Speaker 7 (42:36):
We're trying to get people to understand we're bringing them
into our world, into our experiences so that they can
now take a journey of their own, a quest of
their own.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
Okay, And it goes back to also to be an aware, right, Yeah,
it's being aware. I mean, if I had to boil
it down to one thing, it's like, you know, the
more you know, the more you're able to understand things
and life, the better that the better you could discover
where you fit in, you know, independently, like Wayne Dyer said,
(43:09):
independently of the good opinion of other people.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, so how do people find your book?
Speaker 7 (43:14):
Well, we are going to be launching our book and
I think we're doing it.
Speaker 5 (43:19):
And our book is out already, our book, Yeah, okay,
it's out already, and they could go to s Q
empowerment dot com. You'll be able to see the book
in there. You'll be able to connect with us. We
we we do what do you call it, some some
lessons that we put out on the regular basis. But
if you want to take a look at the book,
(43:40):
just go to our website at sq empowerment dot com
and just stay connected with us. We'd love to hear.
Speaker 6 (43:45):
Okay, so say that a little slower, please here your website.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
It's a SQ empowerment dot Com.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
Okay, because I have a soul quest a Soul's quest
dot com.
Speaker 7 (43:59):
Yeah, well we where we're integrating. Yeah, it's eight Oh
really okay, Yeah, it's ASQ empowerment dot Com.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Sorry for that.
Speaker 7 (44:08):
Yeah, And our book will be available at this point, yes,
and you can find it on our website and with
all the other materials and curriculum. You know, people can
be members, uh and receive our newsletters interact with us.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
That's great, and that was gonna be my next question.
So going to that website, they can find you, they
can find your book. That's wonderful, and so kind of
as we close, what would be a final message that
you want to share with the audience.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
The final message will be listen to that voice inside.
There's a voice that tells you when you're on the path,
and there's a voice that tells you that you're on
the path. It tells you by how the way you
feel your emotions. Well that listen to that voice, follow
that voice, and explore more importantly, the question as to
who am I explore that question, see what answers should
(44:57):
come up, and I challenge you to go beyond on
the normal responses go beyond your roles, go beyond your functions,
and find a deeper meaning of who you truly are.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
I love it. Well, guys, thanks so much. This has
been a great conversation. I love it.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Thank you so much for having us. It's been a
great conversation.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
Thank you well.
Speaker 6 (45:17):
I really appreciate it. Folks, thanks for listening. I hope
you've enjoyed it and we look forward to having you
join us again soon. And this is doctor Doug saying,
now must day I
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Must say thank you.
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