November 24, 2025 • 43 mins
Lisa Tahir, author of The Chiron Effect, joins Dr. Doug to explore how Chiron in astrology reveals core emotional wounds and the path to healing through empathy, self-forgiveness, and conscious transformation. Blending psychotherapy with spiritual insight, Lisa shares practical tools and personal stories that help us rewire limiting beliefs and reclaim our inner worth. https://www.nolatherapy.com
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Inspire Vision Podcast is broadcast on K4HD Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Denzel Washington, welcome.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
To Inspire Vision.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others
and to inspire you to do the same.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Lisa, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Doctor Doug, thank you so much for having me. It's
my delight to meet you and be here today.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh and I see you have a friend already.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
This is Smellie Katch. She loves being in the podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh that's great. Well, you know what I find interesting
is I've done a little bit of research on this
is that one of the comments that talks about how
as we start to discover certain things, it not only
shows us what's going on, but it also reflects a
potential for healing and so on and so forth. What
(01:28):
I'd love for you to do share with the audience
number one, the name of your book, but also what
did you experience in your life that brought you to
the point that you're doing this?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Okay, really good question.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
So my book title is called The Chiron Effect chi
Ron keeling our core wounds meaning emotional wounds through astrology,
empathy and self forgiveness. And the reason why this work
is so important to me and why I am a therapist.
I from six years old, doctor Doug. My parents remembered
(02:05):
me saying I want to be a psychiatrist. And I've
always been so curious about people and what makes us tick,
like our habits, our patterns. And I know that our
lives are composed of the thoughts that we think every
day on repeat that become our beliefs. Those beliefs in
form the actions that we take and that we don't take.
(02:27):
And I really am inspired to help people expand those parameters,
those boundaries that we put upon ourselves believing we can't
or shouldn't. And that's why I really love working with
people to help them heal, because as we heal ourselves,
we're able to step more into the life that we
really want to have and life meets us there.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And what do what you think about that?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Even well, and you know as you say that, I'm
going to ask you to be real transparent if you're
comfortable with it. Is what I find is that so
often we are able to help others because of the
actual experiences that we have had in our own lives.
And for you, were there certain items or experiences that
(03:12):
you had all that brought you to the point of
being able to do that self discovery, heal and move
into this direction.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
When I was younger, in fourth fifth grade, I was
bullied for being slow, and I remember how painful that was,
being the last kid picked to be on, say, the
kickball team, and feeling like nobody wanted nobody wanted to
play with me, and that was reinforced by in my family.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
There was a.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Period of like some really good times and then my
parents just started to not get along.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
They ended up divorcing, and there was a lot of
verbal abuse. There was some domestic violence.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
There was some physical abuse, and so I felt like
my home wasn't safe. And I didn't know those words
when I was young, or even an adolescent. I just
knew when i'd come home, i'd kind of scan the
environment to see, like how are mom and Dad?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Like how can I how do.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
I need to show up and be I know today
it's called hypervigilance when we scan our environment to see
if it's safe or not.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And so I started to slowly kind.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Of minimize and diminish my likes, needs and even interest
to just kind of see is it, how is the
family tonight? Like what do I need to do to
try to keep the peace, and what do I need
to do for.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
My brother and sister?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Not knowing that these things when you're older can create
some issues for you, like.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
You might become a real big people pleaser.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
You might not know what you even like or want
because you're used to deferring to others as a coping
mechanism to just keep things kosher, keep things as peaceful
as they can. And I didn't even know that that
really wasn't even up to me. I thought it was
by me doing certain things that pleased my parents that
things stayed peaceful, but it wasn't at all. So I
(05:00):
really outsourced a lot of my self esteem and things
I had to rebuild when I entered therapy at the
young age of twenty one. And I knew when I
entered therapy at twenty one, this is what I'm going
to do with my life, because I knew I had
a path to walk to heal, and yet I wasn't
afraid of it because I felt really excited to be
(05:22):
able to do this for myself and then help others.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So how did you come across this concept of chirn
and explain to the audience what that is?
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Sure, So I've been a psychotherapist since two thousand is
when I got my license. I started practicing in nineteen
ninety eight, so over twenty five years now that I've
been a therapist, and about ten years ago I started
to get really frustrated Doctor Doug and wondering why do
I have so many successful clients that are experiencing anxiety
(05:57):
and depression, and why after I had been in therapy
as a client for twenty years, really self aware, really
like about my own personal growth and development, why was
I still feeling anxious and depressed. And ten years ago
I started meditating as a daily practice, and when I
was meditating, I was asking God, I was asking the
(06:19):
universe these two questions, why is this happening with.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Clients and myself?
Speaker 5 (06:23):
And I just heard this kind of whisper Chiron c
hi Ron, And I was not very impressed, and I
ignored it at first, But I learned enough to know
that when there's something meant for you to have information,
it's going to keep coming up, and the sooner you
answer that call, the easier it's going to be, rather
than if you keep ignoring your intuition, ignoring the signpost,
(06:47):
they tend to get louder and more dramatic. So I
was like, Okay, I'm just going to start googling this
Chiron thing. And I learned that Chiron was in Greek
mythology a healer. And when you go to the doctor's
office in the UI and you see the staff of medicine,
the snakes wrapped around the staff, that's the staff of
Asclepias that Chiron gave to Asclepias. Chiron was his tutor.
(07:11):
So Chiron in mythology was the founding father of the
healing arts, a pharmacy, a botany, of medicine, of therapy.
Chyn is also in our solar system, orbiting between the
planets of Saturn and Uranus. And in astronomy, Chiron was
given that name to reference the mythological healer. It was
(07:32):
the first in its class to have an odd elliptical.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Orbit rather than a round orbit, and an third.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
In astrology, Chiron is a placement in your birth chart.
Just like you might know your son sign is a
Leo or Sagittarius or Gemini, this Chiron placement is in
your birth chart, and it actually reveals an area of
vulnerability in your thought patterns, a thought pattern that we
perpetuate that doesn't necessarily serve us, and it's where we
(08:03):
tend to encounter emotional and psychological wounding, even sometimes financial issues,
relationship issues.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And that's when I started to really.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Research and integrate the chiron astrology into psychology and taking
personal responsibility. And I trademarked the word psychoastrology as a result.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, and that's wonderful. And you know what I find interesting.
Obviously I come from a scientific background, Yeah right, and
you do too, if you're a psychotherapist. All right. And
one of the first questions that came to my mind
is I was reviewing things for the podcast today, was
how on earth do they come up with these different
wounds that chiron astrology suggests based on your birth chart.
(08:49):
And as I researched it out, I found it fascinating
because you know, my first question as well as this scientific,
and it's like, well, no, there's no scientific. But at
the same time, as I was researching it out, I
discovered that there were a number of people early on
that started looking at this that had a number of
different clients or patients, and over a period of time
(09:10):
they started to identify some commonality and ultimately they were
able to pinpoint based on going back to the chiron chart,
they were able to pinpoint those particular moons or whatever
you want to call them, impress pattern whatever that happens
to be based on that. I found that so fascinating.
(09:32):
They say it's not scientific, but yet that's how science works.
As you do the research, you do the comparisons, you
find the commonality, and you come to the conclusions.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
And doctor Doug, I want to share with you and
our audience that I really struggled with this astrology component.
When I started researching and knew I wanted to write
a book because I was I was struggling with the
issue are you telling me that when I was born
and the stars being in the sky means that I
am X, Y and Z. I'm a really big believer
(10:01):
in free will and taking personal responsibility. And finally in meditation,
it was this huge download. It was like, no, Lisa,
you wrote your chart. You chose these aspects and attributes
before you came into your physical incarnation that you wanted
to explore as a human being. And now that you're here,
you do have free will, and you do have the
(10:24):
ability to learn skills you might not have or know
today to change and shape your life.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So this isn't dictated to you.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
It was written by you kind of how you thought
you wanted to explore this planet. And it's absolutely up
to all of us to take our twists and turns
and choose those experience.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
How does that land with you?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well? It does. And in fact, as I was researching,
I realized that even Carl Jung, who is a renowned psychotherapist,
used astrology and again the way he approached it, which
I really appreciated was not that he's going to predict
future events and so forth, but he used it in
order to discover that inner self and what was doing it.
(11:08):
I happened to do a behavioral analysis that comes up
with a similar concept of what's your greatest fear or
what's your greatest wound? And what I did, and you
love this is I did my own chart, all right.
I went in and researched it and found it, and
I found that it was so similar from what Chiron
(11:31):
said versus what my personal behavioral analysis said as far
as what is that wound. The other thing that I
really love and I want to get into this more
is Melanie Reinhardt, who I think was one of the
beginning people who really researched this out, made a comment,
and I think it's important for the audience to understand
(11:52):
what this is really all about. She says. Hyron's placement
shows us where we are wounded, but also where we
have the potential to heal ourselves and to help others heal.
And so it's not just a matter of discovering that
personal imprint or those type of discoveries subconsciously, but also
(12:13):
by allowing us then to take that and as we
overcome it to be able to be a gift to others.
So I'd love for you to share how you've helped
people and maybe share some examples of people that have
experienced some things how you've used this to help people
not only overcome those beliefs, but also to really become Yes.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
I love this question, and many people just like you,
Doctor Doug, that are in the healing arts, you've already
been about your self discovery and personal transformation that when
you learn about your chiron, it's more of a confirmation
that you're on your path.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
You've been on your path.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
This lines up with the other modalities that have resonated
with you, and it's really kind of like very affirming,
I think, and that's been the case for a lot
of my clients. I work with a lot of therapists
in fact in my practice, and it's really been clarifying
and affirming for them to know that they've been healing
this and wounding has been the word that we're using.
(13:18):
I'm going to also put out here wounding is on
a spectrum, so for some people it is deep wounding.
When you've experienced some traumas like sexual abuse and domestic
violence and neglect. That's a big wound for others that
haven't experience that. Fortunately, it's more of an ouch, it's
more of a ooh like when this comes up, it's
(13:40):
it's uncomfortable, but it's not necessarily a wound. So be
aware of that because I don't want people to be
afraid to learn about their chiron. It really reveals where
we might even feel like we have some low self
esteem or we might want to hide that part of
ourselves that it might not be outwardly obvious that go
on paper, were really successful with the chiron and ares placement. Inwardly,
(14:04):
you might feel like you're not good enough, and you
keep performing and you keep achieving, hoping to feel better
about yourself. But it takes you making that connection that
I'm trying to value myself to achievement, rather than okay,
you can achieve all you want, but first and foremost,
let's just approve of ourselves and let's give ourselves a
(14:24):
break and not be so harsh for example. So it's
really personal discovery. You know, so many of my clients
have loved hearing and learning about this to apply it
to what they're going through in their lives to just
have a clearer roadmap moving forward.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So any examples you can share where you had a
client coming without obviously using names, and the process that
you took them through to the point where not only
did they discover the wound overcome it, but then we're
able to use it as is a gift to others.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
I have actually quite a few very prolific clients that
are also podcasters and they've used the work we've done
together to start their podcast, write a book, you know,
really be able to offer and serve more in the
community and in their world by understanding that there wasn't
really anything wrong with them, that they had some natural responses,
(15:23):
natural and healthy responses too painful things, and to forgive themselves.
My book centers upon self forgiveness and empathy. So this
client in particular and others, it's really the self forgiveness
piece that sets them free. I think we weren't really
taught after Doug that forgiveness is for ourselves also.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It's not just for others.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
And that's been really life changing for the people I
work with to learn forgive themselves, especially women.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, and how do they do that? I mean, you know,
we talk at certain levels about what was what they
need to do, is what they need to do, and
so forth. But how do you help an individual to
learn self forgiveness? Because that's not really easy.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
We can do it right now.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
There's a beautiful practice that I offer and share with
clients when and all of you listening or watching, think
of something right now in fact, that's a struggle for
you where you really don't feel good about how things
turned out. It's like this pain point and I'm even
recalling something in my life where it's been hard to
like move on from it, even though it's been several years,
(16:29):
like I've judged myself for it.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So something like that, And if you can just kind
of even close your.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Eyes and settle into that space you were in when
you said or did or showed up in this way
that just you know, feels so painful and comfortable for you,
And if you can just even put your hands over
your heart and speak to that part of you. I'm
just so sorry you went through that. And maybe it
was a loss, maybe someone left you, a relationship ended
(16:56):
really abruptly, it was it was painful.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I'm just so you went through.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
That to yourself, like to really connect with that part
of you and give him, her, them that empathy. I'm
just so sorry you went through that, and what do
you need from me? And next step is like what
do you need to know from me about that? Like
what do you need to hear? And often it's and
I'm and I'm sorry. And if that person isn't in
(17:22):
your life to say I'm sorry. So often things happen
a rupture and a relationship and the appropriate amends aren't made,
So you don't need it from that person. You can
give it to yourself, I'm just so sorry, and even
say to yourself what you wish they would have said
to you. And again, you're gonna slow this down. I'm
rushing through it in the interest of time, but you're
(17:42):
going to really slow this down and even write about it,
write what you wanted to hear, what you needed to
hear and didn't. And I invite you then to burn
that in your sink as a way to release, to
really release from yourself this judgment, this pain, this criticism.
And I walk clients through doing that with different occurrences
in their lives to really let themselves off this hook.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So as we talk about that, what comes to my mind,
is the client that I had. Yeah, we used NLP
and I was I'm certified in NLP. And as we
went back and I'm looking at reframing, so I used
the word reframing. So in his case, you know very much,
I'm not good enough. His experience comes from a childhood
(18:26):
experience in school where the teacher was abusive mentally and
emotionally put him in the back of the room, you know,
your stupid type of thing. So it wasn't an event
that pause that he was the result or he was
the cause of the pain, but rather it was his
perception of what was happening. And as we went in
(18:49):
and reframed that, and you know, he understood that had
nothing to do with him, had everything to do with
the teacher, Yes, because he was very bright. But as
we went through that, how how do you work with that?
And what's the differentiation between are perceived limiting our limiting beliefs,
which I believe have a lot to do with perception
(19:11):
as a young child versus the actual wounds that may
occur to us that we need to forgive ourselves for
or forget maybe forgive others.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Yes, and I think I hear you talk about.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
On one hand, there's there's the the reframing, using our mind,
using our intellect and our intelligence to see other possibilities
besides the one that we decided was true, and and
that is a necessary step in healing. I think often
before people can get there, they need to just feel
attuned to and really just feel like, I'm just sorry
(19:44):
you went through that.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
And often that person isn't here.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Anymore, like in the in the when it pertains to
this client, it was when he was younger, So the
people aren't here to the teacher isn't here to make
the amends.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
So I think the.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Reframe is excellent is well as if that ever comes
up again and it starts to release, it's like the
volume of a stereo turns down.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Of these triggers. It's less, it's less.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Intense, it's a shorter duration that I'm sure over time
now if this comes up for him, it's turned way
down than what it was before. And I think with
men different than women as well, I don't work with
everyone the same, like I'm really everyone resonates with different things,
so I would work with him, for example, I think
(20:29):
much like you did, and ask like is there any
part of.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
You that feels like you really need.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Like an amends to that younger boy that you were,
that younger child, like to really connect with him. And
only the client knows that if that would be helpful
or not.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Well, but how important would it be for him to
forgive her?
Speaker 5 (20:48):
Oh, I'm not talking about actually, See, that's where people
get really mixed up. They think all this forgiveness is
for others, And what I'm really talking about here, like
forget the teacher, and the forgiveness this is, you know,
for him, for you, like that can come later, and
I think the forgiving of others, we rush through it
too fast on this fearing like if I don't something
(21:08):
bad's gonna happen, rather than really taking our time with
to forgive, say that teacher. I think it would take
some real growth and him to really feel solid again
like I am not wounded by this, like actually this,
like I'm not shaken by And this teacher clearly had
some mental health problems, serious issues going on to maybe
(21:29):
just even that's enough, Like forgiveness doesn't necessarily have to
be like oh I'm so sorry this person was that
unhealthy and you know, like but just to even have
it not feel so so powerful.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
So I think forgiveness is in layers I talk about
in my book.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, so sometimes it's just awareness. Yeah, forgiveness is one element.
What are some of the other elements you talked about
in your book?
Speaker 5 (21:55):
I talk about empathy and self empathy and really, again,
this attunement to ourselves. When when you grow up in
a healthy family, your caretakers attune to you appropriately. When
you fall and skin your knee, they're right there on
the ground, come on, you know, let me get you up,
let me clean you up. However, that doesn't happen a
lot of the time with every situation, and many people
(22:17):
grow up having navigated really big things a parent dying,
and no one thinks to pull the child aside and
be like, how are you because they're in so much
grief themselves, and you just kind of grow up and
time moves on and all.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Of a sudden you're adult.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
But all these things have happened and they never really
feel like they've been healed or resolved. So that's where
the self attune meant, really being empathetic towards yourself, understanding
how some of your experiences are influencing you today, like
the personal responsibility piece and what you want to do
about it, if there's anything you feel like you really
(22:52):
want to address and work on from your past so
that you're showing up really authentically, being kind, being yourself,
you know, not hurting others.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Like you were hurt.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
So that all My book addresses all of those aspects
as well of who do you want to be now
that you have this awareness that there could be some
things to heal.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Okay, so you have your core room, you recognize that,
and then the process is number one, you know, to
forgive yourself if for whatever that happens to be have
that empathy. What else is there? What are the steps
that your clients will take to actually get to the
point where not only have they overcome that, but now
(23:36):
they have discovered that, oh, here's a gift that because
of this I have become and I can become. Maybe
they haven't necessarily, but they can and realize that here's
a way that I can now take that experience and
rather become the victim of it, I can become empowered
by it.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Yes, it is so individualized.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
So there are twelve placements Chiron in the twelve signs
aries all the way through pisces. So for every single
one of these placements, all twelve, I give five to
six affirmations tailored specifically for your Chiron, for your experience
that you are wanting to heal, the strengthen.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And support, as well as I give three to.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Six takeaway steps that pertain specifically to this vulnerability slash
up to.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
And including a wound.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
It's a vulnerability for some, it's a wound for others.
So it's really specific on what I suggest, And I
really I spent three and a half years writing and researching,
so I experience all twelve of these placements to really
really tune into what do people need to know and
do so you can take a chapter and start today
(24:49):
changing behaviors and thoughts based on what's in here.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So, Mike, Chiron is in the scorpio, in the first house.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Okay, yes, I have it opening to Chiron in Scorpio,
So here we are.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
It's open right there.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
So this has to do with the wounding in the
experience of power, and it's in your first house of
personal identity, of self identity, so something not obvious to
anyone else but you. And so some affirmations for you
would center around using your power for goodness and also
your trust somehow is disrupted along the way, learning who
(25:27):
and where you can trust, who's safe. You know, that
might have been something that was challenging for you, doctor Doug.
Learning learning about trust and even believing that things are
going to work out. You see injustice like it really
stands out to you. And to know that there's good people.
I believe you're one of them. I feel your energy.
(25:48):
I feel like you're also like a really strong and
powerful man. So for you with this chirin and scorpio,
you enjoy being generous and it's looking for opportunities to volunteer,
to assist, to help. That's something that's really meaningful for you.
Is that accurate?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
And as I read, you know, really the ability to
help to help others and so on and so forth.
That is so accurate And I was fascinated as I
got into that and recognize that. So for you, where's yours?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (26:22):
It was so the chirin and aris this in my
first house as well my personal identity. I've always been
achievement oriented.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Because I really love it.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
It makes me excited and happy to accomplish goals that
serve others and our world.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yet I never felt like I was good enough doing it.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
It was this very weird disconnection for so many years
until I understood my healing is to really whenever I'm
feeling less than or not enough, it's.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Like, so, how are you overperforming?
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Like can you please take like sit down, Everything's all right,
Like you're doing more than enough to really comfort myself,
go for a hike, like do something that's not always
about like some kind of work thing that's bettering something
or someone, to really like be gentle with myself, like
smell the roses literally and enjoy myself more and praise myself.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Now, what are the affirmations for you?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Let me see, let me look and see, and then.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
You give me the affirmations for me.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
And there's a reason for this, absolutely, let's see iron
and ares affirmations are I own, my right to exist,
my value wise within That was a big one for me.
I am enough. I actually am enough, and I am worthy.
And that's so important for those of you that that
(27:44):
overperform and feel like it's based in doing more.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
It's knowing you're worthy and enough right.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Now, Okay, and then Scorpio.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yes, let's see the Scorpio affirmations.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
They're different. They're about I use my power for goodness.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Because there is the possibility of a Chirine and Scorpio
person that's not aligned, that's not you know, really in
their self awareness, that they could use their power to
hurt others. So the affirmation is, I use my power
for goodness. I'm learning to trust, I am safe, everything
is always working out for me, and I am generous.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And kind well, and you know, I love the words
I am. And as we get theologically into that whole thing,
you know, I am, I am the great, I am.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
The great, I am yes.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And as we look at that, and I look at
that and realize, you know what, here's the teaching that
most of us miss is. It's not that we have
to do this, do this, do this, but we become
and as we become, then we naturally do things. And
let's talk about affirmations, because you know, there's so many
(28:56):
concepts about affirmations. You put them up on a board
in front of you or whatever that happens to be.
But scientifically, and we're going to get into that a
little bit when we talk about affirmations. We talk about meditation. What,
in your opinion, what do affirmations do for an individual
from a standpoint of changing their mindset and actually changing
(29:19):
those neurological pathways in their brain.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
For an affirmation to truly change your subconscious mind and
upgrade it, it has to be an affirmation. I babystep
it progressively. It's hard to just start saying I'm rich
when there's no money in your bank account.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
So a better start.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Would be things like looking for the abundance that does
surround you. I'm going to look for the abundance that's
in my life and even noticing, I'm noticing the abundance
that I have and feeling the feeling of abundance and
baby something, you know, show me, and I really draw
on what people believes, like God, show me that I
(30:02):
am abundant, show me that you are providing for me,
show me that I can and and I'm going to
be rich, like show me. And it's in that way
the affirmation really has some traction in our subconscious mind
to start shifting what we believed. And then different things
show up, new opportunities show up.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
How do you see that?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Well, as you're talking about that what comes to my
mind is the word gratitude. And as we as we
start to really look at and I don't like the
concept of money, I just don't.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
But yeah, we can use another one.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, but from the concept of gratitude and as you said,
the gratitude for the abundance that I have, you know,
living here in Thailand. One of the things that has
just really struck me is culturally, I mean, people here
or maybe i'm us dollars, the average person makes maybe
you know, five, two, three, four hundred dollars a month
(31:01):
and they live on that and and what fascinates me
is they're happy, at least they appear to be on
the outside, you know, and they're they're friendly, they're kind
and so forth. And I think that as we start
to recognize that abundance that we have been given, even
if it's small, and then I love how you talk
(31:21):
about writing it down that literally we start to appreciate
our life and change our perspective of our life and
recognize that, you know, there's so many things to be grateful.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
For, doctor Doug.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
There are, and I think an important step is to
really act authentically be happy with where we are and
what we have to really appreciate, to really see how
blessed to see whatever and stop comparing and really tune
in to the abundance. Like I love taking walks and
the flowers, the grass in Santa Monica.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
I went to the beach yesterday.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Here in California, it's like the abundance of sand, like
it's everywhere in nature, abundance that's just beaming around. And
when you really start to feel that, it soothe, it
harmonizes us with something bigger and greater that then does
allow us to change our lives well.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
And then I love the nature thing. I try to
walk at least two to three times a week and
walking around and just looking at the rice fields and
the lakes and just the nature that is not necessarily everywhere,
but I found a place to walk where I see
that and to appreciate the nature and to recognize that,
(32:37):
you know, what is an abundance in our lives. To
be able to recognize that here's this creation of beauty
and of nature and that it exists there to help
us to feel better.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
And I love Thailand.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
When I was there, people were so kind, so nice,
like you said, happiness, and it was just like really
life changing to go and when I was somebody would
take me to where I needed to be, just really
going out of their way. But they didn't think a
thing about it was like their natural impulse to like
see I was an American obviously lost looking at a
(33:13):
map or whatever, and like ask and try to communicate
even to help. It was like wonderful that people would
take their time to do that. I think we have
a lot to learn in America about kindness and generosity
and just pausing to take some time out for someone
else instead of rushing to.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
The next thing.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
It's amazing as I walk in if I'm shopping and
I'm walking into a store and I'm going, okay, and
I have to show my picture because I don't speak tie,
so I'm sayta right, here's what I'm looking for, and
that individual literally walks me all the way through all
the aisles and then introduces me to the person who
(33:51):
happens to be in charge of that area, and then
they sit there and they stay there to make sure
then I'm able to find what I can find what
I need to find is So that's awesome, it's fascinating.
So we've got the forgiveness we've got the empathy, we've
got the affirmations. Anything else in your book, you.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
Know, I do talk about gratitude like you were saying,
it's it's so important. It's for me a daily thing.
I start my day with gratitude. I end my day
with gratitude.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
There's so much to appreciate when we really have eyes
for that.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So any specific examples of someone who literally was self
sabotaging because of those wounds and ultimately with your help
you were able to guide them through that process to
where they came out on the other end really experiencing
life in a positive way. Can you share a specific example?
Speaker 5 (34:41):
And yeah, a female client that comes to mind was
self harming, like cutting for self horribly. It was so scary,
the cutting and damaged physically she was doing to her
body and because of self loathing and just like hating
herself and not having any other way to express And
it was several years and working with her she was
(35:02):
able to completely stop doing that to herself and became
involved with animals and then became a teacher and like
she emailed me years later, just thanking me, and it
was such a it was like amazing to hear from
her about how good her life, how good her life
was flowing, how much she appreciated my patience, and and
(35:22):
just not being afraid of what she was doing. That
a lot of therapists even get afraid when there's something
like self harm happening. And she just had really loves
her life, and it was like wow, like that's why
I do this to you know, know what the life
and like generations are changed by what we do and
by what you do. Even someone listening and watch it,
(35:42):
the kindness that you speak and show it. It affects
people in profoundly positive ways.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, it does. And you know what fascinates me is
so often you know you're fortunate because you get feedback
from your clients so often I think excuse me as
as we seek to touch the lives of others and
recognizing that, you know, it's just about the one. It's
not about the masses, it's just about the one. We
(36:10):
don't always get that feedback of what we happen to do,
whether it was a smile or whether it was just
something that we did for another individual that literally changed
their lives, and we don't all get that feedback that
that's what happened, and yet it happens.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
So to keep taking your time with others and as
you feel, lad, we all have an intuition. To honor
your intuition and do what it directs you to do,
even if it doesn't make any logical sense to trust.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Okay, so let's talk about those affirmations again, and let's
talk about the neurological pathways. Okay, what happens if you've
done and I'm sure you've studied this, what happens when
someone is experiencing those wounds and continuing to experience it,
what happened? Because what's occurred is they have developed neurological
(37:03):
pathways that it's literally a habit. This is how I am.
And what happens when you start to use those affirmations
in a way that it starts to change those neurological
pathways instead aside some of the negative ones and start
to develop the positive ones. How does that occur?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Well, it occurs first and foremost because it's about healing
the disruption that happened. That when people have these beliefs
about themselves that are harsh, critical and just awful, it's
because something's happened in their lives, that we aren't born
thinking these thoughts. Another human being ninety nine percent of
the time has said something, done something that disrupted your
(37:45):
sense of trust and safety in the world. So before
we're speaking affirmations, we're doing some deep healing work around
you know, what happened and what meaning did you make
of yourself when this happened. And once they're able to fully,
you know, release any feelings they might not have been
able to share with others at the time, it's like, Okay,
what if let's look at this. The reframe is so important,
(38:07):
Like let's look at this in some other possibilities, and
like might it be that you were always good enough?
But this person was really wounded and damaged and they
hurt you because they were wounded, not because you're not valuable?
And like how do you want to believe about yourself
instead of being like I'm not worthy of or valuable?
Like how do you want to feel? And I'll have
(38:28):
clients write down statements. I write it down with them
so I have a copy, they have a copy and
will make like, say three to five to keep it manageable,
Like how you'd really like to believe about yourself? And
I encourage people then to take those statements and put
it on a sticky note and keep it in their wallet,
like I have some in mind so that you're encountering it.
(38:48):
So your subconscious mind is encountering these statements of new
beliefs you want to feel about yourself and about life,
and it gradually starts to get some traction again as
your continuing to maybe make some changes. Maybe you need
to heal an addiction, maybe you need to stop talking
to someone that's not treating you well, or maybe you
(39:09):
need to go hang out with some people that love
you that I've been reaching out that you haven't answered
their text or calls. So it's the thought and the
affirmation along with the new behaviors and healing, healing with
something altogether.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And how does meditation fit into all of this?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Well, I'm a or do you meditate that?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Oh yes, oh yes, yes, you know it took me.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
I really believe in two week experiments. So ten years ago,
I just simply did a two week experiment. I'm going
to meditate every morning. I'm going to start with five minutes,
and in two weeks, if I don't feel anything different,
I never have to do it again. But I feel
like I knew I could show up for two weeks
each morning. I believe most people can when you really
prioritize something that's important to you. So for two weeks,
(39:57):
I just would meditate for five minutes, and by the
end of two weeks it had become fifteen minutes, and
I was doing a mix of silent meditations and guided
YouTube meditations, and I felt so much happier, so much
just richer emotionally and my ability to access my range
of emotions. Like I just felt like I'm changing, and
(40:19):
I'm just going to keep doing this, Like the evidence
of my experience showed me that this is valuable, and
I encourage I encourage you to try a meditation. There's
so many ways. You can do a walking meditation listening
to some soft music. You can do a YouTube guided
meditation for four or five minutes. You can go somewhere
(40:41):
and participate in group meditation and.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Just see and it's amazing what comes up. I mean,
you experienced it with a chira. It's amazing in my
experience and others that I've interviewed that true meditation, all
of a sudden, these items come up and as you
become aware of that allows you then if it happens
to be a you know, self sabotaging belief, you recognize, wow,
(41:06):
that's that's there, and you're able to start to set
it aside or as you say, sometimes just meditating to
experience that peace and happiness and joy in our lives. Yes,
to me, it's just amazing.
Speaker 5 (41:20):
Yeah, it's worth trying. If someone's listening or watching and
they haven't.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, and it helps.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
It helped me to go to some group meditations doctor
Doug as well.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Really learn with others to really like dive into this
and see what works for.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
You and and different things. For me, is walking meditation, Yeah,
and yeah, and you know it goes on for an
hour or sometimes so me too.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I love walking meditation my thing.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I love it. I love it. So anyway, as
we get to the end, what how do people find
your book?
Speaker 5 (41:53):
It's on Amazon, It's at Barnes and Noble dot com.
You can just google Lisa ta here my name and
it will come up, or the title of the book.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
It's on Walmart dot com.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
And I'm I'm the audio voice on the audible the audiobook.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
It's my voice. So it's also available that way and
on Kindle?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
And how do people find you if they want some help?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Thank you, doctor Doug.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
You can find me. You can google my name again.
Lisa tie here t a h i R. My website
is NOLA Therapy n O l A t h e
r a p y dot com and it stands for
New Orleans Los Angeles Therapy, the two places that I live.
And that's my instagram NOLA.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Therapy wonderful, wonderful. And as a closing thought, what would
you want to share with the audience what came up.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
A moment ago?
Speaker 5 (42:43):
It was not planned. Is this notion around being happy
over being right? And it's a time we're living in.
I think people are trying to be right, feeling like
somehow that's going to change minds. And I invite you
instead to invite in what your happiness is. Ask what
is my happiness today? And notice what you're.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Led to do, say to experience.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
And do that every week as much as you can.
What is my happiness instead.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Of being right?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
I love it? Lisa, Thank you so much. This has
been a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Thank you, doctor Doug. You're awesome well.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
And so are you. I appreciate it so much. Folks,
please go get that book. I've gone through it a
bit and it is just fascinating. And again here's a
fascinating approach that might change your lives. So again, Lisa,
thank you so much for making a difference in other
people's lives.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Thank you, doctor Doug, you as well, Thank you doctor
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Doug, saying no mistake
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Denzel Washington, welcome.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
To Inspire Vision.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others
and to inspire you to do the same.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Lisa, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Doctor Doug, thank you so much for having me. It's
my delight to meet you and be here today.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh and I see you have a friend already.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
This is Smellie Katch. She loves being in the podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh that's great. Well, you know what I find interesting
is I've done a little bit of research on this
is that one of the comments that talks about how
as we start to discover certain things, it not only
shows us what's going on, but it also reflects a
potential for healing and so on and so forth. What
(01:28):
I'd love for you to do share with the audience
number one, the name of your book, but also what
did you experience in your life that brought you to
the point that you're doing this?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Okay, really good question.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
So my book title is called The Chiron Effect chi
Ron keeling our core wounds meaning emotional wounds through astrology,
empathy and self forgiveness. And the reason why this work
is so important to me and why I am a therapist.
I from six years old, doctor Doug. My parents remembered
(02:05):
me saying I want to be a psychiatrist. And I've
always been so curious about people and what makes us tick,
like our habits, our patterns. And I know that our
lives are composed of the thoughts that we think every
day on repeat that become our beliefs. Those beliefs in
form the actions that we take and that we don't take.
(02:27):
And I really am inspired to help people expand those parameters,
those boundaries that we put upon ourselves believing we can't
or shouldn't. And that's why I really love working with
people to help them heal, because as we heal ourselves,
we're able to step more into the life that we
really want to have and life meets us there.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And what do what you think about that?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Even well, and you know as you say that, I'm
going to ask you to be real transparent if you're
comfortable with it. Is what I find is that so
often we are able to help others because of the
actual experiences that we have had in our own lives.
And for you, were there certain items or experiences that
(03:12):
you had all that brought you to the point of
being able to do that self discovery, heal and move
into this direction.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
When I was younger, in fourth fifth grade, I was
bullied for being slow, and I remember how painful that was,
being the last kid picked to be on, say, the
kickball team, and feeling like nobody wanted nobody wanted to
play with me, and that was reinforced by in my family.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
There was a.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Period of like some really good times and then my
parents just started to not get along.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
They ended up divorcing, and there was a lot of
verbal abuse. There was some domestic violence.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
There was some physical abuse, and so I felt like
my home wasn't safe. And I didn't know those words
when I was young, or even an adolescent. I just
knew when i'd come home, i'd kind of scan the
environment to see, like how are mom and Dad?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Like how can I how do.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
I need to show up and be I know today
it's called hypervigilance when we scan our environment to see
if it's safe or not.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And so I started to slowly kind.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Of minimize and diminish my likes, needs and even interest
to just kind of see is it, how is the
family tonight? Like what do I need to do to
try to keep the peace, and what do I need
to do for.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
My brother and sister?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Not knowing that these things when you're older can create
some issues for you, like.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
You might become a real big people pleaser.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
You might not know what you even like or want
because you're used to deferring to others as a coping
mechanism to just keep things kosher, keep things as peaceful
as they can. And I didn't even know that that
really wasn't even up to me. I thought it was
by me doing certain things that pleased my parents that
things stayed peaceful, but it wasn't at all. So I
(05:00):
really outsourced a lot of my self esteem and things
I had to rebuild when I entered therapy at the
young age of twenty one. And I knew when I
entered therapy at twenty one, this is what I'm going
to do with my life, because I knew I had
a path to walk to heal, and yet I wasn't
afraid of it because I felt really excited to be
(05:22):
able to do this for myself and then help others.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So how did you come across this concept of chirn
and explain to the audience what that is?
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Sure, So I've been a psychotherapist since two thousand is
when I got my license. I started practicing in nineteen
ninety eight, so over twenty five years now that I've
been a therapist, and about ten years ago I started
to get really frustrated Doctor Doug and wondering why do
I have so many successful clients that are experiencing anxiety
(05:57):
and depression, and why after I had been in therapy
as a client for twenty years, really self aware, really
like about my own personal growth and development, why was
I still feeling anxious and depressed. And ten years ago
I started meditating as a daily practice, and when I
was meditating, I was asking God, I was asking the
(06:19):
universe these two questions, why is this happening with.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Clients and myself?
Speaker 5 (06:23):
And I just heard this kind of whisper Chiron c
hi Ron, And I was not very impressed, and I
ignored it at first, But I learned enough to know
that when there's something meant for you to have information,
it's going to keep coming up, and the sooner you
answer that call, the easier it's going to be, rather
than if you keep ignoring your intuition, ignoring the signpost,
(06:47):
they tend to get louder and more dramatic. So I
was like, Okay, I'm just going to start googling this
Chiron thing. And I learned that Chiron was in Greek
mythology a healer. And when you go to the doctor's
office in the UI and you see the staff of medicine,
the snakes wrapped around the staff, that's the staff of
Asclepias that Chiron gave to Asclepias. Chiron was his tutor.
(07:11):
So Chiron in mythology was the founding father of the
healing arts, a pharmacy, a botany, of medicine, of therapy.
Chyn is also in our solar system, orbiting between the
planets of Saturn and Uranus. And in astronomy, Chiron was
given that name to reference the mythological healer. It was
(07:32):
the first in its class to have an odd elliptical.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Orbit rather than a round orbit, and an third.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
In astrology, Chiron is a placement in your birth chart.
Just like you might know your son sign is a
Leo or Sagittarius or Gemini, this Chiron placement is in
your birth chart, and it actually reveals an area of
vulnerability in your thought patterns, a thought pattern that we
perpetuate that doesn't necessarily serve us, and it's where we
(08:03):
tend to encounter emotional and psychological wounding, even sometimes financial issues,
relationship issues.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And that's when I started to really.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Research and integrate the chiron astrology into psychology and taking
personal responsibility. And I trademarked the word psychoastrology as a result.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, and that's wonderful. And you know what I find interesting.
Obviously I come from a scientific background, Yeah right, and
you do too, if you're a psychotherapist. All right. And
one of the first questions that came to my mind
is I was reviewing things for the podcast today, was
how on earth do they come up with these different
wounds that chiron astrology suggests based on your birth chart.
(08:49):
And as I researched it out, I found it fascinating
because you know, my first question as well as this scientific,
and it's like, well, no, there's no scientific. But at
the same time, as I was researching it out, I
discovered that there were a number of people early on
that started looking at this that had a number of
different clients or patients, and over a period of time
(09:10):
they started to identify some commonality and ultimately they were
able to pinpoint based on going back to the chiron chart,
they were able to pinpoint those particular moons or whatever
you want to call them, impress pattern whatever that happens
to be based on that. I found that so fascinating.
(09:32):
They say it's not scientific, but yet that's how science works.
As you do the research, you do the comparisons, you
find the commonality, and you come to the conclusions.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
And doctor Doug, I want to share with you and
our audience that I really struggled with this astrology component.
When I started researching and knew I wanted to write
a book because I was I was struggling with the
issue are you telling me that when I was born
and the stars being in the sky means that I
am X, Y and Z. I'm a really big believer
(10:01):
in free will and taking personal responsibility. And finally in meditation,
it was this huge download. It was like, no, Lisa,
you wrote your chart. You chose these aspects and attributes
before you came into your physical incarnation that you wanted
to explore as a human being. And now that you're here,
you do have free will, and you do have the
(10:24):
ability to learn skills you might not have or know
today to change and shape your life.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So this isn't dictated to you.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
It was written by you kind of how you thought
you wanted to explore this planet. And it's absolutely up
to all of us to take our twists and turns
and choose those experience.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
How does that land with you?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well? It does. And in fact, as I was researching,
I realized that even Carl Jung, who is a renowned psychotherapist,
used astrology and again the way he approached it, which
I really appreciated was not that he's going to predict
future events and so forth, but he used it in
order to discover that inner self and what was doing it.
(11:08):
I happened to do a behavioral analysis that comes up
with a similar concept of what's your greatest fear or
what's your greatest wound? And what I did, and you
love this is I did my own chart, all right.
I went in and researched it and found it, and
I found that it was so similar from what Chiron
(11:31):
said versus what my personal behavioral analysis said as far
as what is that wound. The other thing that I
really love and I want to get into this more
is Melanie Reinhardt, who I think was one of the
beginning people who really researched this out, made a comment,
and I think it's important for the audience to understand
(11:52):
what this is really all about. She says. Hyron's placement
shows us where we are wounded, but also where we
have the potential to heal ourselves and to help others heal.
And so it's not just a matter of discovering that
personal imprint or those type of discoveries subconsciously, but also
(12:13):
by allowing us then to take that and as we
overcome it to be able to be a gift to others.
So I'd love for you to share how you've helped
people and maybe share some examples of people that have
experienced some things how you've used this to help people
not only overcome those beliefs, but also to really become Yes.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
I love this question, and many people just like you,
Doctor Doug, that are in the healing arts, you've already
been about your self discovery and personal transformation that when
you learn about your chiron, it's more of a confirmation
that you're on your path.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
You've been on your path.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
This lines up with the other modalities that have resonated
with you, and it's really kind of like very affirming,
I think, and that's been the case for a lot
of my clients. I work with a lot of therapists
in fact in my practice, and it's really been clarifying
and affirming for them to know that they've been healing
this and wounding has been the word that we're using.
(13:18):
I'm going to also put out here wounding is on
a spectrum, so for some people it is deep wounding.
When you've experienced some traumas like sexual abuse and domestic
violence and neglect. That's a big wound for others that
haven't experience that. Fortunately, it's more of an ouch, it's
more of a ooh like when this comes up, it's
(13:40):
it's uncomfortable, but it's not necessarily a wound. So be
aware of that because I don't want people to be
afraid to learn about their chiron. It really reveals where
we might even feel like we have some low self
esteem or we might want to hide that part of
ourselves that it might not be outwardly obvious that go
on paper, were really successful with the chiron and ares placement. Inwardly,
(14:04):
you might feel like you're not good enough, and you
keep performing and you keep achieving, hoping to feel better
about yourself. But it takes you making that connection that
I'm trying to value myself to achievement, rather than okay,
you can achieve all you want, but first and foremost,
let's just approve of ourselves and let's give ourselves a
(14:24):
break and not be so harsh for example. So it's
really personal discovery. You know, so many of my clients
have loved hearing and learning about this to apply it
to what they're going through in their lives to just
have a clearer roadmap moving forward.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So any examples you can share where you had a
client coming without obviously using names, and the process that
you took them through to the point where not only
did they discover the wound overcome it, but then we're
able to use it as is a gift to others.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
I have actually quite a few very prolific clients that
are also podcasters and they've used the work we've done
together to start their podcast, write a book, you know,
really be able to offer and serve more in the
community and in their world by understanding that there wasn't
really anything wrong with them, that they had some natural responses,
(15:23):
natural and healthy responses too painful things, and to forgive themselves.
My book centers upon self forgiveness and empathy. So this
client in particular and others, it's really the self forgiveness
piece that sets them free. I think we weren't really
taught after Doug that forgiveness is for ourselves also.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It's not just for others.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
And that's been really life changing for the people I
work with to learn forgive themselves, especially women.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, and how do they do that? I mean, you know,
we talk at certain levels about what was what they
need to do, is what they need to do, and
so forth. But how do you help an individual to
learn self forgiveness? Because that's not really easy.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
We can do it right now.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
There's a beautiful practice that I offer and share with
clients when and all of you listening or watching, think
of something right now in fact, that's a struggle for
you where you really don't feel good about how things
turned out. It's like this pain point and I'm even
recalling something in my life where it's been hard to
like move on from it, even though it's been several years,
(16:29):
like I've judged myself for it.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So something like that, And if you can just kind
of even close your.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Eyes and settle into that space you were in when
you said or did or showed up in this way
that just you know, feels so painful and comfortable for you,
And if you can just even put your hands over
your heart and speak to that part of you. I'm
just so sorry you went through that. And maybe it
was a loss, maybe someone left you, a relationship ended
(16:56):
really abruptly, it was it was painful.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I'm just so you went through.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
That to yourself, like to really connect with that part
of you and give him, her, them that empathy. I'm
just so sorry you went through that, and what do
you need from me? And next step is like what
do you need to know from me about that? Like
what do you need to hear? And often it's and
I'm and I'm sorry. And if that person isn't in
(17:22):
your life to say I'm sorry. So often things happen
a rupture and a relationship and the appropriate amends aren't made,
So you don't need it from that person. You can
give it to yourself, I'm just so sorry, and even
say to yourself what you wish they would have said
to you. And again, you're gonna slow this down. I'm
rushing through it in the interest of time, but you're
(17:42):
going to really slow this down and even write about it,
write what you wanted to hear, what you needed to
hear and didn't. And I invite you then to burn
that in your sink as a way to release, to
really release from yourself this judgment, this pain, this criticism.
And I walk clients through doing that with different occurrences
in their lives to really let themselves off this hook.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So as we talk about that, what comes to my mind,
is the client that I had. Yeah, we used NLP
and I was I'm certified in NLP. And as we
went back and I'm looking at reframing, so I used
the word reframing. So in his case, you know very much,
I'm not good enough. His experience comes from a childhood
(18:26):
experience in school where the teacher was abusive mentally and
emotionally put him in the back of the room, you know,
your stupid type of thing. So it wasn't an event
that pause that he was the result or he was
the cause of the pain, but rather it was his
perception of what was happening. And as we went in
(18:49):
and reframed that, and you know, he understood that had
nothing to do with him, had everything to do with
the teacher, Yes, because he was very bright. But as
we went through that, how how do you work with that?
And what's the differentiation between are perceived limiting our limiting beliefs,
which I believe have a lot to do with perception
(19:11):
as a young child versus the actual wounds that may
occur to us that we need to forgive ourselves for
or forget maybe forgive others.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Yes, and I think I hear you talk about.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
On one hand, there's there's the the reframing, using our mind,
using our intellect and our intelligence to see other possibilities
besides the one that we decided was true, and and
that is a necessary step in healing. I think often
before people can get there, they need to just feel
attuned to and really just feel like, I'm just sorry
(19:44):
you went through that.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
And often that person isn't here.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Anymore, like in the in the when it pertains to
this client, it was when he was younger, So the
people aren't here to the teacher isn't here to make
the amends.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
So I think the.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Reframe is excellent is well as if that ever comes
up again and it starts to release, it's like the
volume of a stereo turns down.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Of these triggers. It's less, it's less.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Intense, it's a shorter duration that I'm sure over time
now if this comes up for him, it's turned way
down than what it was before. And I think with
men different than women as well, I don't work with
everyone the same, like I'm really everyone resonates with different things,
so I would work with him, for example, I think
(20:29):
much like you did, and ask like is there any
part of.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
You that feels like you really need.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Like an amends to that younger boy that you were,
that younger child, like to really connect with him. And
only the client knows that if that would be helpful
or not.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Well, but how important would it be for him to
forgive her?
Speaker 5 (20:48):
Oh, I'm not talking about actually, See, that's where people
get really mixed up. They think all this forgiveness is
for others, And what I'm really talking about here, like
forget the teacher, and the forgiveness this is, you know,
for him, for you, like that can come later, and
I think the forgiving of others, we rush through it
too fast on this fearing like if I don't something
(21:08):
bad's gonna happen, rather than really taking our time with
to forgive, say that teacher. I think it would take
some real growth and him to really feel solid again
like I am not wounded by this, like actually this,
like I'm not shaken by And this teacher clearly had
some mental health problems, serious issues going on to maybe
(21:29):
just even that's enough, Like forgiveness doesn't necessarily have to
be like oh I'm so sorry this person was that
unhealthy and you know, like but just to even have
it not feel so so powerful.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
So I think forgiveness is in layers I talk about
in my book.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, so sometimes it's just awareness. Yeah, forgiveness is one element.
What are some of the other elements you talked about
in your book?
Speaker 5 (21:55):
I talk about empathy and self empathy and really, again,
this attunement to ourselves. When when you grow up in
a healthy family, your caretakers attune to you appropriately. When
you fall and skin your knee, they're right there on
the ground, come on, you know, let me get you up,
let me clean you up. However, that doesn't happen a
lot of the time with every situation, and many people
(22:17):
grow up having navigated really big things a parent dying,
and no one thinks to pull the child aside and
be like, how are you because they're in so much
grief themselves, and you just kind of grow up and
time moves on and all.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Of a sudden you're adult.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
But all these things have happened and they never really
feel like they've been healed or resolved. So that's where
the self attune meant, really being empathetic towards yourself, understanding
how some of your experiences are influencing you today, like
the personal responsibility piece and what you want to do
about it, if there's anything you feel like you really
(22:52):
want to address and work on from your past so
that you're showing up really authentically, being kind, being yourself,
you know, not hurting others.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Like you were hurt.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
So that all My book addresses all of those aspects
as well of who do you want to be now
that you have this awareness that there could be some
things to heal.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Okay, so you have your core room, you recognize that,
and then the process is number one, you know, to
forgive yourself if for whatever that happens to be have
that empathy. What else is there? What are the steps
that your clients will take to actually get to the
point where not only have they overcome that, but now
(23:36):
they have discovered that, oh, here's a gift that because
of this I have become and I can become. Maybe
they haven't necessarily, but they can and realize that here's
a way that I can now take that experience and
rather become the victim of it, I can become empowered
by it.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Yes, it is so individualized.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
So there are twelve placements Chiron in the twelve signs
aries all the way through pisces. So for every single
one of these placements, all twelve, I give five to
six affirmations tailored specifically for your Chiron, for your experience
that you are wanting to heal, the strengthen.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And support, as well as I give three to.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Six takeaway steps that pertain specifically to this vulnerability slash
up to.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
And including a wound.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
It's a vulnerability for some, it's a wound for others.
So it's really specific on what I suggest, And I
really I spent three and a half years writing and researching,
so I experience all twelve of these placements to really
really tune into what do people need to know and
do so you can take a chapter and start today
(24:49):
changing behaviors and thoughts based on what's in here.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So, Mike, Chiron is in the scorpio, in the first house.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Okay, yes, I have it opening to Chiron in Scorpio,
So here we are.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
It's open right there.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
So this has to do with the wounding in the
experience of power, and it's in your first house of
personal identity, of self identity, so something not obvious to
anyone else but you. And so some affirmations for you
would center around using your power for goodness and also
your trust somehow is disrupted along the way, learning who
(25:27):
and where you can trust, who's safe. You know, that
might have been something that was challenging for you, doctor Doug.
Learning learning about trust and even believing that things are
going to work out. You see injustice like it really
stands out to you. And to know that there's good people.
I believe you're one of them. I feel your energy.
(25:48):
I feel like you're also like a really strong and
powerful man. So for you with this chirin and scorpio,
you enjoy being generous and it's looking for opportunities to volunteer,
to assist, to help. That's something that's really meaningful for you.
Is that accurate?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
And as I read, you know, really the ability to
help to help others and so on and so forth.
That is so accurate And I was fascinated as I
got into that and recognize that. So for you, where's yours?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (26:22):
It was so the chirin and aris this in my
first house as well my personal identity. I've always been
achievement oriented.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Because I really love it.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
It makes me excited and happy to accomplish goals that
serve others and our world.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yet I never felt like I was good enough doing it.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
It was this very weird disconnection for so many years
until I understood my healing is to really whenever I'm
feeling less than or not enough, it's.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Like, so, how are you overperforming?
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Like can you please take like sit down, Everything's all right,
Like you're doing more than enough to really comfort myself,
go for a hike, like do something that's not always
about like some kind of work thing that's bettering something
or someone, to really like be gentle with myself, like
smell the roses literally and enjoy myself more and praise myself.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Now, what are the affirmations for you?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Let me see, let me look and see, and then.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
You give me the affirmations for me.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
And there's a reason for this, absolutely, let's see iron
and ares affirmations are I own, my right to exist,
my value wise within That was a big one for me.
I am enough. I actually am enough, and I am worthy.
And that's so important for those of you that that
(27:44):
overperform and feel like it's based in doing more.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
It's knowing you're worthy and enough right.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Now, Okay, and then Scorpio.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yes, let's see the Scorpio affirmations.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
They're different. They're about I use my power for goodness.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Because there is the possibility of a Chirine and Scorpio
person that's not aligned, that's not you know, really in
their self awareness, that they could use their power to
hurt others. So the affirmation is, I use my power
for goodness. I'm learning to trust, I am safe, everything
is always working out for me, and I am generous.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And kind well, and you know, I love the words
I am. And as we get theologically into that whole thing,
you know, I am, I am the great, I am.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
The great, I am yes.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And as we look at that, and I look at
that and realize, you know what, here's the teaching that
most of us miss is. It's not that we have
to do this, do this, do this, but we become
and as we become, then we naturally do things. And
let's talk about affirmations, because you know, there's so many
(28:56):
concepts about affirmations. You put them up on a board
in front of you or whatever that happens to be.
But scientifically, and we're going to get into that a
little bit when we talk about affirmations. We talk about meditation. What,
in your opinion, what do affirmations do for an individual
from a standpoint of changing their mindset and actually changing
(29:19):
those neurological pathways in their brain.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
For an affirmation to truly change your subconscious mind and
upgrade it, it has to be an affirmation. I babystep
it progressively. It's hard to just start saying I'm rich
when there's no money in your bank account.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
So a better start.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Would be things like looking for the abundance that does
surround you. I'm going to look for the abundance that's
in my life and even noticing, I'm noticing the abundance
that I have and feeling the feeling of abundance and
baby something, you know, show me, and I really draw
on what people believes, like God, show me that I
(30:02):
am abundant, show me that you are providing for me,
show me that I can and and I'm going to
be rich, like show me. And it's in that way
the affirmation really has some traction in our subconscious mind
to start shifting what we believed. And then different things
show up, new opportunities show up.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
How do you see that?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Well, as you're talking about that what comes to my
mind is the word gratitude. And as we as we
start to really look at and I don't like the
concept of money, I just don't.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
But yeah, we can use another one.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, but from the concept of gratitude and as you said,
the gratitude for the abundance that I have, you know,
living here in Thailand. One of the things that has
just really struck me is culturally, I mean, people here
or maybe i'm us dollars, the average person makes maybe
you know, five, two, three, four hundred dollars a month
(31:01):
and they live on that and and what fascinates me
is they're happy, at least they appear to be on
the outside, you know, and they're they're friendly, they're kind
and so forth. And I think that as we start
to recognize that abundance that we have been given, even
if it's small, and then I love how you talk
(31:21):
about writing it down that literally we start to appreciate
our life and change our perspective of our life and
recognize that, you know, there's so many things to be grateful.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
For, doctor Doug.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
There are, and I think an important step is to
really act authentically be happy with where we are and
what we have to really appreciate, to really see how
blessed to see whatever and stop comparing and really tune
in to the abundance. Like I love taking walks and
the flowers, the grass in Santa Monica.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
I went to the beach yesterday.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Here in California, it's like the abundance of sand, like
it's everywhere in nature, abundance that's just beaming around. And
when you really start to feel that, it soothe, it
harmonizes us with something bigger and greater that then does
allow us to change our lives well.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
And then I love the nature thing. I try to
walk at least two to three times a week and
walking around and just looking at the rice fields and
the lakes and just the nature that is not necessarily everywhere,
but I found a place to walk where I see
that and to appreciate the nature and to recognize that,
(32:37):
you know, what is an abundance in our lives. To
be able to recognize that here's this creation of beauty
and of nature and that it exists there to help
us to feel better.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
And I love Thailand.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
When I was there, people were so kind, so nice,
like you said, happiness, and it was just like really
life changing to go and when I was somebody would
take me to where I needed to be, just really
going out of their way. But they didn't think a
thing about it was like their natural impulse to like
see I was an American obviously lost looking at a
(33:13):
map or whatever, and like ask and try to communicate
even to help. It was like wonderful that people would
take their time to do that. I think we have
a lot to learn in America about kindness and generosity
and just pausing to take some time out for someone
else instead of rushing to.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
The next thing.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
It's amazing as I walk in if I'm shopping and
I'm walking into a store and I'm going, okay, and
I have to show my picture because I don't speak tie,
so I'm sayta right, here's what I'm looking for, and
that individual literally walks me all the way through all
the aisles and then introduces me to the person who
(33:51):
happens to be in charge of that area, and then
they sit there and they stay there to make sure
then I'm able to find what I can find what
I need to find is So that's awesome, it's fascinating.
So we've got the forgiveness we've got the empathy, we've
got the affirmations. Anything else in your book, you.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
Know, I do talk about gratitude like you were saying,
it's it's so important. It's for me a daily thing.
I start my day with gratitude. I end my day
with gratitude.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
There's so much to appreciate when we really have eyes
for that.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So any specific examples of someone who literally was self
sabotaging because of those wounds and ultimately with your help
you were able to guide them through that process to
where they came out on the other end really experiencing
life in a positive way. Can you share a specific example?
Speaker 5 (34:41):
And yeah, a female client that comes to mind was
self harming, like cutting for self horribly. It was so scary,
the cutting and damaged physically she was doing to her
body and because of self loathing and just like hating
herself and not having any other way to express And
it was several years and working with her she was
(35:02):
able to completely stop doing that to herself and became
involved with animals and then became a teacher and like
she emailed me years later, just thanking me, and it
was such a it was like amazing to hear from
her about how good her life, how good her life
was flowing, how much she appreciated my patience, and and
(35:22):
just not being afraid of what she was doing. That
a lot of therapists even get afraid when there's something
like self harm happening. And she just had really loves
her life, and it was like wow, like that's why
I do this to you know, know what the life
and like generations are changed by what we do and
by what you do. Even someone listening and watch it,
(35:42):
the kindness that you speak and show it. It affects
people in profoundly positive ways.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, it does. And you know what fascinates me is
so often you know you're fortunate because you get feedback
from your clients so often I think excuse me as
as we seek to touch the lives of others and
recognizing that, you know, it's just about the one. It's
not about the masses, it's just about the one. We
(36:10):
don't always get that feedback of what we happen to do,
whether it was a smile or whether it was just
something that we did for another individual that literally changed
their lives, and we don't all get that feedback that
that's what happened, and yet it happens.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
So to keep taking your time with others and as
you feel, lad, we all have an intuition. To honor
your intuition and do what it directs you to do,
even if it doesn't make any logical sense to trust.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Okay, so let's talk about those affirmations again, and let's
talk about the neurological pathways. Okay, what happens if you've
done and I'm sure you've studied this, what happens when
someone is experiencing those wounds and continuing to experience it,
what happened? Because what's occurred is they have developed neurological
(37:03):
pathways that it's literally a habit. This is how I am.
And what happens when you start to use those affirmations
in a way that it starts to change those neurological
pathways instead aside some of the negative ones and start
to develop the positive ones. How does that occur?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Well, it occurs first and foremost because it's about healing
the disruption that happened. That when people have these beliefs
about themselves that are harsh, critical and just awful, it's
because something's happened in their lives, that we aren't born
thinking these thoughts. Another human being ninety nine percent of
the time has said something, done something that disrupted your
(37:45):
sense of trust and safety in the world. So before
we're speaking affirmations, we're doing some deep healing work around
you know, what happened and what meaning did you make
of yourself when this happened. And once they're able to fully,
you know, release any feelings they might not have been
able to share with others at the time, it's like, Okay,
what if let's look at this. The reframe is so important,
(38:07):
Like let's look at this in some other possibilities, and
like might it be that you were always good enough?
But this person was really wounded and damaged and they
hurt you because they were wounded, not because you're not valuable?
And like how do you want to believe about yourself
instead of being like I'm not worthy of or valuable?
Like how do you want to feel? And I'll have
(38:28):
clients write down statements. I write it down with them
so I have a copy, they have a copy and
will make like, say three to five to keep it manageable,
Like how you'd really like to believe about yourself? And
I encourage people then to take those statements and put
it on a sticky note and keep it in their wallet,
like I have some in mind so that you're encountering it.
(38:48):
So your subconscious mind is encountering these statements of new
beliefs you want to feel about yourself and about life,
and it gradually starts to get some traction again as
your continuing to maybe make some changes. Maybe you need
to heal an addiction, maybe you need to stop talking
to someone that's not treating you well, or maybe you
(39:09):
need to go hang out with some people that love
you that I've been reaching out that you haven't answered
their text or calls. So it's the thought and the
affirmation along with the new behaviors and healing, healing with
something altogether.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And how does meditation fit into all of this?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Well, I'm a or do you meditate that?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Oh yes, oh yes, yes, you know it took me.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
I really believe in two week experiments. So ten years ago,
I just simply did a two week experiment. I'm going
to meditate every morning. I'm going to start with five minutes,
and in two weeks, if I don't feel anything different,
I never have to do it again. But I feel
like I knew I could show up for two weeks
each morning. I believe most people can when you really
prioritize something that's important to you. So for two weeks,
(39:57):
I just would meditate for five minutes, and by the
end of two weeks it had become fifteen minutes, and
I was doing a mix of silent meditations and guided
YouTube meditations, and I felt so much happier, so much
just richer emotionally and my ability to access my range
of emotions. Like I just felt like I'm changing, and
(40:19):
I'm just going to keep doing this, Like the evidence
of my experience showed me that this is valuable, and
I encourage I encourage you to try a meditation. There's
so many ways. You can do a walking meditation listening
to some soft music. You can do a YouTube guided
meditation for four or five minutes. You can go somewhere
(40:41):
and participate in group meditation and.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Just see and it's amazing what comes up. I mean,
you experienced it with a chira. It's amazing in my
experience and others that I've interviewed that true meditation, all
of a sudden, these items come up and as you
become aware of that allows you then if it happens
to be a you know, self sabotaging belief, you recognize, wow,
(41:06):
that's that's there, and you're able to start to set
it aside or as you say, sometimes just meditating to
experience that peace and happiness and joy in our lives. Yes,
to me, it's just amazing.
Speaker 5 (41:20):
Yeah, it's worth trying. If someone's listening or watching and
they haven't.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, and it helps.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
It helped me to go to some group meditations doctor
Doug as well.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Really learn with others to really like dive into this
and see what works for.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
You and and different things. For me, is walking meditation, Yeah,
and yeah, and you know it goes on for an
hour or sometimes so me too.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I love walking meditation my thing.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I love it. I love it. So anyway, as
we get to the end, what how do people find
your book?
Speaker 5 (41:53):
It's on Amazon, It's at Barnes and Noble dot com.
You can just google Lisa ta here my name and
it will come up, or the title of the book.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
It's on Walmart dot com.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
And I'm I'm the audio voice on the audible the audiobook.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
It's my voice. So it's also available that way and
on Kindle?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
And how do people find you if they want some help?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Thank you, doctor Doug.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
You can find me. You can google my name again.
Lisa tie here t a h i R. My website
is NOLA Therapy n O l A t h e
r a p y dot com and it stands for
New Orleans Los Angeles Therapy, the two places that I live.
And that's my instagram NOLA.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Therapy wonderful, wonderful. And as a closing thought, what would
you want to share with the audience what came up.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
A moment ago?
Speaker 5 (42:43):
It was not planned. Is this notion around being happy
over being right? And it's a time we're living in.
I think people are trying to be right, feeling like
somehow that's going to change minds. And I invite you
instead to invite in what your happiness is. Ask what
is my happiness today? And notice what you're.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Led to do, say to experience.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
And do that every week as much as you can.
What is my happiness instead.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Of being right?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
I love it? Lisa, Thank you so much. This has
been a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Thank you, doctor Doug. You're awesome well.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
And so are you. I appreciate it so much. Folks,
please go get that book. I've gone through it a
bit and it is just fascinating. And again here's a
fascinating approach that might change your lives. So again, Lisa,
thank you so much for making a difference in other
people's lives.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Thank you, doctor Doug, you as well, Thank you doctor
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Doug, saying no mistake
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