November 4, 2025 • 44 mins
Join Dr. Doug as he talks with Amber Lavin, a relationship coach specializing in mindful dating and neural rewiring, about how childhood experiences shape our relationship choices—and how we can break free of repeating painful patterns. Amber shares her own story of transformation from ten years in an unfulfilling relationship to finding a secure, loving partnership and the steps you can duplicate.
Inspire Vision Podcast is broadcast on K4HD Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Inspire Vision Podcast is broadcast on K4HD Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
(00:51):
to do the same.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Ember, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Oh I died to have you on the show. You know,
this whole topic about relationships I think is so important,
and you know there's a few people to talk about it,
but I think you have some interesting insights, so you know,
i'd love I'm going to look forward to this, but
would you just kind of share with the audience.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Your background, sure, Yeah. I'm a relationship coach based out
of Asheville, North Carolina, and my focus is on mind
body connection and understanding how when we have body awareness
and use mindfulness on our relationships, it actually creates more
presence and more vulnerability and we're able to connect more fully.
(01:36):
And I also me and my husband own our business together.
He does counseling and I do coaching, and sometimes we
refer each other out or vice versa well.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
And that's interesting because he's a psychiatrist or psychologist, right.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
The therapist, he's a therapist.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Interesting how you have the therapy and have you have
the coaching.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And that's an interesting distinction, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah. I think that there's a lot of people who it's. Yeah,
it's becoming more and more of a thing. People are
interested in coaching and interested in therapy and they can
kind of be adjacent and so understanding that it's it
is different, and they can actually work very closely together.
I work with a lot of therapists and I think
(02:22):
that's the best way to do it of having wrap
around support. We all just we all need it.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, true.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
So you on your website, you you had an interesting story,
and I think to get this started, I'd love for
you to share your story behind quote true connection.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah. So I kind of grew up as most of us,
did not much knowledge about how to have a successful relationship,
just kind of watching movies or watching people around me.
But no one really was like, this is how you
have a healthy connection and reallylationship, and so I would
(03:02):
just kind of, you know, bump into people and just
be like, oh, this, this seems like it's working. And
I experienced a lot of painful experiences and was in
a lot of based on my own dynamics and you
know development, neural pathway development, I ended up being in
a lot of relationships with emotionally unavailable men, and I
(03:26):
just thought, as many clients I have, think like, oh,
this is just the way it is, like this is
how men are, or this is just how you know
my hand that I'm dealt. And I ended a ten
year relationship. We were never married, and it was a
great relationship within of itself, but there was a lot
lacking for me emotionally in that relationship and I just
(03:51):
had this kind of like alcoholics have, I just had
this breakdown moment of being like there has to be
something different because I started dating because I thought, oh,
it's going to be different. It's a different person. It
was the same type of person, it was just changing
the name. And so I started doing all kinds of
(04:13):
healing modalities, trainings, and I created my own path for
rewiring my neural pathway for who I attract and how
I present in a relationship and in dating, and everything changed.
It was kind of amazing. And I met my husband
and he was just enamored with me. And he's just
(04:37):
a very like, wonderful, securely attached person and we have
a beautiful marriage. We have two children, we own a
business together, and it's beyond my wildest dreams.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Wow. And you know, it's so interesting.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
We always talk about marriages and divorce and the divorce
rate in the US is so high.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I mean, what is it now, six or so? And
yet you know, it was interesting.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
In my previous life. Yeah, I was a dentist and
I used to work with different modalities, but one of
the areas that I just had a subspecialty in was
in people who had chronic had neck pain. And unfortunately,
in dentistry they called it TMJ, you know, and so
(05:25):
people would walk in and go, okay, doctor, I have
TMJ and I'm going no, no, no, no, no, you
have two. You got one on one side and one
on the other side, So tell me what's your problem.
And as we got into that and delved in the
actual problem, then we were able to come up with
a solution that actually worked, which was really wonderful to do.
And I think it's the same thing here that you
(05:46):
just shared that you know so often we don't get
to the cause of what's happening with these relationships, and
it sounded like, ultimately, after your ten years and other relationships,
that you finally kind of broke down. And by the way,
I've been through the same thing to the point that
you've done that inner work and literally changed who you are,
(06:12):
and that's not easy to do. But as you change that,
you attracted an entirely different person. So what I'd like
for you to do is share with the audience what
are some of the changes that you had to make,
and what are some of the changes that you as
you work with and I assume you work mainly with
ladies from what I could tell from your website, what
(06:34):
are some of the changes you work with them? To
make so that they can start getting into a healthier relationship.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, I have created a very specific six step process
and it's exactly what I did, and that's what I
walk women through, and I think anyone can really do it.
Even a listener right now could do it on their own.
And what I did is I to take a complete
inventory of my love life and my relationships and find
(07:06):
specific patterns of what was happening. Because there's always a pattern,
there's always a cycle to what's happening, and so it
could be, you know, a specific type of person or
a specific type of personality, and so I had to
do that audit, a relationship audit of my past relationships.
(07:26):
The next step is to get really clear about who
you are and what you want in your life and
your values, because if you're someone who is religious, you
need to probably be with someone who's also religious. That's
a very important value to some people, and not everyone
does that deep dive of their own values and who
(07:48):
they want in their lives. And that's what I had
to do, was really get clear about what my values were.
The next parts were creating very specific habits around my
dating so that I could have a regulated nervous system,
because if we're just regulated and in fight or flight
(08:09):
when we go on a date, we do not have
clear thinking or being flooded with so many chemicals and hormones,
it just shuts offs offline. And especially if you have
relational wounds and you get triggered, you're not making very
good choices in that moment. And so I had to
put very specific habits, like you know, a really simple
(08:31):
example is doing a five minute meditation before a date.
And everyone has these ways now that we're optimizing, like
our sleep and our eating, and people know about these
types of ways to regulate their nervous systems, but not
everyone is putting them specifically in that dating part to
where they can start a date that way and end
(08:53):
a date that way. And so that's what I did
as well, is I created self soothing habits so that
I had to regulate a nervous system during the dating journey.
And the next part was that I made sure that
I had a continuation of presence and mindfulness. I really
believe in mindful dating and present dating, so that you're
(09:14):
able to actually see this new person in front of
you because you're meeting someone for the first time, and
even if it's not a match, it still can be
an extraordinary experience just to like view someone new for
the first time with fresh eyes. And the last part
that I had to do for myself is create a
(09:35):
support system and accountability, because we don't change unless we
have that, unless we have accountability. As you know, you know,
it takes three months to change a habit, So this
is a skill set and if you want to change,
it does take time to put those things into place.
And that's what I had to do and that's what
(09:56):
I walk my clients through.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
So if you look at at the age of your clients,
do you find that there's a general age pattern that
you work with and if so.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, it tends to be women in their forties and fifties.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Women that have been married and divorced.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Yeah, So here's my question, you know, as we get
into the very first part of this, which is really
all of those things that occurred that are lodged there
in the subconscious mind, because you talk about neural plasticity
and the fact that we have developed these neural pathways
in our younger life to the point where we don't
(10:38):
even realize that they're controlling us, and we end up
attracting the very things that we wish we were avoiding,
but we don't know why. So here's my question, at
what age should someone really start looking at this? And
how do we help prevent such a high divorce rate
by getting to the cause here and working with young
(11:01):
people at a particular age. What age do you think
people should start really looking at this and parents should
start helping their children to start looking at this.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
That's a wonderful question. I really appreciate you asking that
because I would love to work with younger women. I
think it's just the demographic that tends to be drawn
to my work. And people go through a lot of
pain and they're like, Okay, you know, I'm ready to change.
But I on the earlier, the better teach your children
(11:37):
how to understand what they want and need, and I
do think there's a movement in that direction. I'm not
one hundred percent on board with gentle parenting, but I
think like respectful parenting and gentle parenting, those are actually
ways that we're teaching our children to feel safe in
their bodies so that they can actually give and receive
(11:58):
love to others. But definitely young women learning how to
I met with a young woman the other day at
an event who she was like, I know this doesn't
fully apply to me, but what's your advice for men?
Like this applies all to you, Like this is the
time you know, I don't want to meet you ten
(12:19):
years after an abusive relationship, like this is the time
to really understand who you are and what you want.
And the biggest takeaway really is having a regulated nervous system.
The more you are not in fight or flight, the
more you can connect easily with other people and understand
(12:41):
what your boundaries are and understand when something doesn't feel
like a good fit.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Well, and you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
I mean, I'm so tired of all the things they've
been teaching or young people in school that they shouldn't
be teaching. But the one thing that they should be
teaching is a very thing that you're talking about. Particularly,
you get to that age of eighteen, nineteen, twenty and
twenty one, and for some I think for women, their
(13:08):
brains form a little.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Bit faster than for men.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
But at the same time, how do you help these
young people to recognize at that age that they have
this myriad of subconscious experiences that are literally affecting their
life and their choices, and how do you help them
(13:32):
to become aware of that?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Number one?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
And then number two, what is your process because it's
got to be the same for the women that you
work with versus these younger people for them to actually
get in there, dive in and find out Number one,
what are these things that are really affecting me negatively
that shouldn't be? And number two, who am I really?
And I think that becomes the key to discover who
(13:57):
not who we are, but who we can become us
we get rid of a lot of that neural pathways
that have been affected by our childhood.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, And you know, I think it's so interesting because
with the rise of TikTok, I do think there's a
movement for young people with mental health because I think
a lot of older people right like, we're talking about
these things, and so I do think there is a
huge movement around mental health and how to cope with
(14:28):
day to day life. But it's a really good question
of how do you at that age especially I know
I was like this way, you couldn't tell me anything. Yeah,
But I really think it starts with the parents and
parents being able to do parenting in a way that
(14:51):
really values a child. That doesn't mean you just let
them do whatever they want or they get to, you know,
break the rules. We all need boundaries, but really starting
at a young age, understanding that it's okay to have feelings,
that you're safe, and that you're allowed to know what
you want and ask for what you want. I think
(15:14):
with some of the older generation parenting models it was
very much like, you know, don't talk, sit in a corner,
don't speak until you're spoken to, which was maybe worked
during that time, but I think it created a lot
of adults who were then like I don't know who
I am, I don't know who you are as my partner,
and it just creates a lot of conflict. And so
(15:36):
I do think there's a movement that's happening in that direction.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So what would you say the first step for a
young person who's in their early twenties that are getting
out there and dating and so forth, what are some
of the steps that if they were self aware enough
that they would actually start to do some of that
introspective work. What would be some of the first steps
you'd work with them to do, because I guarantee you
(16:01):
that that's what you do with your older clients. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Yeah, So the first step would really be get clear
about your values, what your belief systems are, who you are,
what your values are, what you're okay with, what you're
not okay with, because once you understand that, it's a
lot easier to when you meet someone out and about
and they just you know, because when we have chemistry
(16:28):
and attraction, it kind of just they gets us in
this different state of mind to where we don't fully
see someone for who they are and we're like, oh,
they're a smoker. I never wanted to be with a smoker,
but I'm really attracted in them, So maybe maybe they're
going to quit, right, But that should be a hard
line of that that is a very important value to you,
(16:50):
and you want someone in your life who doesn't smoke.
And even if you're young and not looking to get married,
you want people in your life that enhance the best
parts of you. And so knowing who you are, knowing
what your values are, then you can invite those people
into your life. And this type of process. I have
(17:11):
women who I have a support group too that goes
through the exact same process, who are like I apply
this to my friendships. I applied this to my coworkers
because it seems really simplistic, but it really is just
a matter of knowing what you are and knowing what
you want and inviting that into your life.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Well, and you talked a little bit about meditation, but
I want to go in a little bit deeper because values,
I agree with you, is totally extremely important. But that
doesn't necessarily yet in my opinion, at least into the
root causes. It's a part of the root cause. But
you have so many situations where people stay in relationships
(17:53):
that they should never stay in. They're codependent, and you
have situations where people feel like, you know what, I'm
just not worthy of someone really good, so they'll settle
for something different. How do you help these women to
get into that root cause of you know what, these
are the imprints that I have experienced from childhood that
(18:18):
are subconscious.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I don't even.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Recognize they're there, and yet it's affecting the outcome of
my life. How do you help them to recognize what
they are number one and number two changing and move
them away in the neural pathways and bring in new
neural pathways.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. The values part is just the
surface level. Really, it's a core wound of feeling unworthy
and that's what keeps people stuck in bad relationships and
toxic relationships. And the way that I do that is
very early on we do a relationship audit and relationship inventory,
(18:59):
which people hate, like this is horrible, but very quickly
we are able to see that, Okay, there's a very
core belief that. For example, something that comes up pretty
often is I don't get what I want, right, I don't.
I don't get what I want. And so the way
(19:22):
we work on that in session, a belief is something
that is very ingrained. Yeah, it's a neural pathway. We
try to confirm our beliefs constantly. That's what we all do.
We're all creating our reality. We're just walking around trying
to confirm our beliefs. And so really the first step
is understanding that neural plasticity. I really have to have
(19:45):
a conversation with my clients in the beginning that you
can change this neural pathway, you can change what you're perceiving.
And once I get by in where they can start
to see that yes, I'm starting to see that this
perse is changing a little bit. We take teeny tiny
micro steps of how that shows up. For example, going
(20:09):
to a coffee shop and you know this is from
a past client and wanting a specific being with a
group of people and wanting a specific thing and not
saying anything, and then get a resentful that no one
noticed that you wanted a specific thing. That is such
a such a small, beautiful moment of a way to
change that neural pathway, the ability to speak up and
(20:29):
say I want this thing, and then taking those tiny,
tiny steps and then being able to apply it on
a bigger scale of understanding that you are allowed to
ask for what you want.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
Well, you know, the word that comes to my mind
is discovery. How do you help these women to discover
those self sabotaging beliefs? How how do they become aware?
You know, you talked a little bit about mindfulness, and
we'll talk about that a little bit further hopefully, But
how do you help them to become mindful enough that
(21:05):
they are aware when those perceptions come up and those
emotions come up, recognizing that wow, you know that's not
who I am. This is something that has been imprinted
on me from early childhood and it's not doing me
any favors. How do you help them to recognize all
of those little items so that they can start to
(21:27):
really actually work on the problem.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, a lot of it is getting knee deep, knitty,
gritty in the dirt, and it's uncomfortable to have a
long conversation with someone just for an hour of and
some people some people show up and they're ready. They're ready,
like I want to go there and I want to
figure this out. Yeah, And the way I do that
(21:53):
is motivational interviewing, essentially asking questions because truly only we
know the answers of how to heal and what's going on.
And I would say ninety percent of people that I
work with have some sort of understanding of what's happening,
and sitting through an hour long conversation of someone just
being like, Oh, what did that mean? Why did you
(22:16):
do that? What did that bring up for you? Similar
to therapy, but we don't go too far into trauma.
But as I sit with women, and we truly start
to uncover pretty early on. With the women I work with,
we find a core belief like I don't deserve love,
or I'm unworthy of love, and we just hatch away
(22:38):
at that belief and I shouldn't use that kind of
language because I don't like that. Really, we hold the
belief and allow it and bring it to awareness and
even nurture it, because the more we avoid something, the
more it's going to come up. And so if we
allow those uncomfortable feelings, that's where the change actually happens.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
And you know, it's interesting as you say, you know,
and you don't like the words, but it's true, I'm
not good enough, you know, so on and so forth,
and when you think about that, people have to be right.
And so what I find interesting is we will do
the very things we're trying to avoid because subconsciously we're
(23:20):
trying to.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Prove ourselves right. And you know, you.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Talk about trauma, and as you know from the research,
there's a huge percentage of young people that have experienced trauma,
whether it's it's all different types of trauma, emotional, whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
That happens to be.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
How often do you find as you're working with clients
that they have experienced or at least their perception has been.
Sometimes it's real, and sometimes it's a perception that they
have experienced trauma in their early childhood and that literally
is affecting their ability to choose a positive, healthy relationship.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I would say most of my clients even just like
a you know, there's big T trauma and there's small
T trauma, and I would say most of my clients
have had some sort of small T trauma. And I
do a lot of work around attachment theory as well.
That's something that I do try to understand in the
beginning of what their attachment style is because it could
have been as simple as feeling ignored as a child, right,
(24:27):
you just feel ignored all the time, and then what
do you do. You're an adult and you're getting with
people who ignore you and you're you're like, I don't
want to do this, but there's just something that's happening.
And so that's that's a big thing that I focus on,
is understanding attachment style. And I think that's a really
(24:49):
good way and it can it really simplifies it because
there's there's three styles and most people can pretty quickly
put them themselves in those categories.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Well, and you know, as you.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Talk about trauma and the big tea and the load
and the small tea and I, you know, appreciate how
you say that your husband's a therapist. Yeah, okay, at
what point in time if someone has experienced a bad relationship,
they just got out of it, they're seeking some help,
They're looking to get some help from you, and you
recognize that, Wow, this is a big ta.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
What why would they want to go to.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
A therapist instead, if that's what you would suggest, And
if so, what's that therapist going to do that you
could not do?
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Great question. I love that you asked.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
That only because your husband's a therapist.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah, Well, I think it's really important. I think there's
there in the coaching world. I think there needs to
be some really good distinctions between that and not everyone
agrees with that, but that's for me. I think there's
some ethical questions with coaching, especially when you start coaching
in this internal way. And so if your trauma, like
even if it's a little teacher trauma, is affecting your
(26:02):
day to day life to where you can't get out
of bed or you're having a hard time going to work,
that would probably be more for therapy. Also for me,
if I have a client who has a diagnosed mental
health issue and they're not seeing a therapist, I will
refer out. I will not work with someone who unless
(26:24):
they've sought treatment, they have a treatment plan and they
know their treatment plan. But if they have a significant
mental health diagnosis, I will typically refer out if they
don't already have a therapist. I do work with a
lot of people who have a therapist, and me and
the therapists work together. And so the benefit of doing
(26:46):
that is that a therapist can diagnose, they can talk
about medication. They also do that deeper trauma work, and
some coaches will do that. But the difference is a
therapist has a supervisor typically or they're seeking outside council,
(27:06):
and so they have a treatment plan and so they
have a beginning, middle, and end, and they also use
modalities such as EMDR cognitive based therapy, and coaches can
get in that. But therapists have very very intensive training
of how to help someone process a trauma, and so
(27:30):
that would be the benefit of seeing a therapist. And
they can take insurance, so typically it's cheaper.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Well, and you know, as you look at it, how
many how many women have married their fathers, how many
men have married their mothers?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And obviously you work mainly with the women.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
But you know, I look at that and recognize that,
you know, so often we tend to and not even
recognizing because we all love our parents just some degree,
but not recognizing that we've married someone very similar, and
as we get a little bit older, recognizing that it's
those negative things that are really causing the challenge and
a relationship.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
What do you find with that?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Yeah, so we all have wounds that happen, and typically
they're caused by our parents. And I'm not trying to,
you know, talk bad about parents. It's just the reality,
especially in our relationships, that's what we're recreating is our
family dynamics, and so that wound, we're just looking for
(28:35):
the right fit for that wound. So, using the ignoring example,
if you felt ignored as a child, and you're a
woman and you're dating, and you're on a date with
a guy and he's on his phone the whole time.
Even though someone else might be like, oh, that is
not cool, that's rude for them to do that, somewhere
in your nervous system that feels right, and so you
(29:00):
might actually start having this anxious feeling like, oh, I
really want his attention I'm going to do more to
get his attention, or I'm going to text him the
next day really quickly because now I feel like I
need his attention. And so, yeah, I think that most
of us are recreating our family dynamics, and most family
dynamics are aren't that bad, really, but there's always stuff.
(29:24):
And so I think in general, the more we can
understand ourselves and understand what's happened to us, the more
we can create healthy, long lasting relationships. And I don't
think people some people think that relationships are meant to
be a roller coaster with ups and downs and fighting
and then which fighting is part of it, but it
(29:47):
relationships do not have to be a roller coaster that
doesn't have Families don't have to be a roller coaster.
And really, if you want to go even earlier, getting
into family therapy, if you're if you're you know, a
mom and you have a you're listening to this and
you're like, this is how me and my husband are
get into family therapy so that your kiddo can understand
(30:10):
what a healthy relationship looks like, because they are going
to make their partners based on how they see you.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Well, and you just hit my next point, and that's
his parents. I think so often. You know, we talk
about epigenetics, which is literally being able to change the
way things are. And I look at my own personal
family and recognize that I saw my dad and my
mom literally, at least my dad particularly literally change some
(30:40):
of those parenting patterns that he had experienced and it
made all the difference in the world for his children.
And I think we've done that. As I look at
my kids, my boys that have children, and we talk
about it, I've seen that they literally consciously are even
changing some things that from their person they wanted to
(31:01):
change as a parent. And I think, as you say,
there's a lot of people listening to this that are married,
that are struggling and don't realize that they literally can
be the foundation if they'd be willing to make those
changes themselves and those relationships to affect their children and
(31:21):
their grandchildren and their posterity beyond because they've been able
to change that habitual situation.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, and that's you know, people, there's a whole thing
about breaking generational curses, which kind of sounds extreme, and
I don't fully agree with that because it sounds but
there is a lineage that we all carry and a
trauma that we all carry with our family dynamics and
family history and being that person who breaks that cycle. Yeah,
(31:53):
you could be changing that for every generation to come,
which is really powerful.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, it really is.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
And you know, as you talk about as we start
getting into relationships, what is the main motivation in your experience,
what's the main motivation for two people to get into
a relationship as they get to be young adults.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, I mean, really it's connection. And I when I'm
working with people, I really try to hammer home the
idea that we're animals and we want to be together.
And this is the main thing, is that this is
(32:42):
inherently a part of who we are, is to connect
and love each other, and this is available to all
of us. There's just been some things I think messed
up in our society at some point, but we are
meant to be together and there's some things that out
now and I don't disagree with it fully, but I
(33:03):
have women who are like, you know, oh, I need
to be happy single. Yes, we should all be okay
when we're alone. We shouldn't be in fight or flight
when we're alone. But it's really so normal to have
a very intense desire to be with another person romantically.
This is a part of our DNA and finding ways
(33:27):
where you can do that and feel safe and healthy,
because I think people don't want to do it because
they're like, oh, it's always you know, drama or hard.
It does not have to be that way. That's that's
not the truth of who we are.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
Well, And you know, I think you've hit a good
point because society, at least the years past, have really
emphasized this, okay to be single and you know, just
be single, on and on and on, and yet I think
that desire for connection, that desire for intimacy. And when
we use the word intimacy, I'm not just talking about sex.
(34:04):
I'm talking about that intimate connection with another person where
you just feel connected, you feel loved, you feel one
with them. How do we recognize in another person, Number one,
that that is genuine intimacy as we just defined it.
(34:24):
How can you help someone as they're working with you
and all of a sudden they meet, you know, a guy,
and you're trying to help them to recognize that, Okay,
either this is ingenuine intimacy or this is truly a
genuine connection that if you really work at it together,
it can end up being a lasting relationship.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yeah, that's that's a great question. And this is where
I think it's so important. This mindfulness piece comes in.
And also, you know now people are starting to talk
about embodiment and really that that's that's like a cousin
to mindfulness. Understanding your body's signals is life changing, especially
(35:11):
as you meet people. So for example, and I love
that you talked about TMJ two because I think that
that's you know, and I'm sure you know you know
that whole tension it's just a queue from our bodies,
right like, hey, something you're something's not going right, Like,
let's let's talk about this. And so it's the same
when you meet someone. So if you're feeling really tense
(35:35):
and some anxiety is normal. But if you're feeling and
really scared, a dropping feeling in your stomach, if you're
having a lot of tension, even if on paper, this
person checks all the boxes, really tune into what your
body is telling you and slow down it. You know,
(35:55):
potentially it could be just anxiety or if you're having
some things come up on your own. But the more
you're ape because our bodies are constantly communicating with us
what's safe. And you know, people had experiences where they're,
you know, somewhere and they had a feeling and then
something happened. That's that's that's normal. That's not something that's
(36:18):
way out there. We're our bodies are constantly communicating with us,
and that is a really powerful tool in dating and relationships.
And that's another thing that we've kind of forgotten about
or ignored. And that's what I help women learn how
to do. Learn how to listen to themselves, that small
inner voice that's communicating with them, and also learn what's
(36:41):
happening in their body body wisdom, because if you're on
a date and you're just tense all over and you
have a headache after the date, there's a reason for that.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
You may not even.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, and you might not have an answer ever,
but but it's so important and to listen to well.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
And how do you help your clients to become mindful?
Because mindfulness is not necessarily an easy thing to accomplish.
I believe me, I understand that, and you know I try.
I try to meditate at least three to four times
a week for over an hour as I do my walking,
and you know, how do you help these women to
(37:27):
truly understand number one, what mindfulness is, and then number
two to be able to develop it to the point
that when that and I call them red flags start
to come up, they're able to go, Okay, this is
a red flag, I'm out of here.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Yeah. Mindfulness was a big part of my journey, and
I've been a practitioner for a long time meditation practitioner,
and one of the reasons why I corporate it into
my work is that whenever I was starting this journey,
I'd gone to a long retreat and I started doing
a thirty meditation and I was in this dynamic and
I was just so confused, and I kept using my
(38:05):
mental brain to be trying to figure it out, figure
it out, figure it out. And then I would sit
in meditation and slow down and get in touch with
my body, and all of a sudden, the answer became
very clear to me. And so I tell women who
have never meditated right that essentially it's slowing down, it's
(38:28):
getting out of the virtual reality that's happening here and
really tuning in to your body, your breath, allowing things
to slow down. Our brains are not always helpful. They're
really just constantly trying to solve a problem and to
fix something. And sometimes that's great, right if you have
(38:52):
a problem at work, But when you're trying to understand
complexities of relationships and really get in tune with what's happening,
slowing down being able to understand what is happening for
you and so essentially it's slowing down. That's that's where
(39:15):
I start.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Well, and it's interesting as I look at meditation, it
can literally change your life. It can move you into
an entirely different direction if you allow it to and
if you trust it.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Yeah, it allows us to be our true selves essentially,
and that's you know, that sounds hokey, but I do
think we live in this very fast paced society and
you know, all about success and getting to the next
thing and being really busy, which is okay too. You know,
there's there's there's times for that. But if you want to,
(39:54):
you know, understand, if you have a problem, any kind
of problem, it might not be a relationship. If you're
having a problem out work, If you allow yourself to
slow down a little bit, there's you're able to actually
listen to yourself and hear how you feel about something
and if you're just go go go in our brains
(40:15):
have started doing that too, just go go, go, go, go,
go go, and we are not listening to other people,
to ourselves, to our world, to our environment. And so
the ability to do that can definitely change everything.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
And how do you help your women clients to trust
themselves as they go through that process?
Speaker 4 (40:39):
Yeah, that's hard. Yeah. What comes up around this is
that for me with my clients is I've I've built
this story that I attract these certain types of men,
and so when I meet someone, how do I I
(41:00):
know the difference between a fight or flight response, normal anxiety,
red flag? And essentially it's time, it's time and practice.
This is a skill set. This is something that can
be taught. And as you're slowing down learning how to
(41:21):
listen to that small, still voice inside of you, over
time you'll start to build new memories of meeting someone
picking up on a red flag, coming back to me
or someone else and being like, oh, I noticed that
he was doing that thing, so I decided not to
go back out with him, and it's like, oh, you
did it. And so you build a new memory. And
(41:44):
that's how we build new neuropathways is by creating new memories.
And that's why it's so important to work with someone,
either a therapist or a coach, so that you can
start to notice those new memories and recreate them because
you want to come back to that. You want to
be like, oh, yeah, I did did that thing. I
was able to say no, even though it all looked
good on paper. I was able to say no. And
(42:06):
sometimes you're like, oh, I was able to get out
a really bad relationship even though I loved him so much,
and now I'm so much happier. That's building a new
neural pathway. And that's how we begin to trust ourselves
is by doing these things and seeing the reward and benefit.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
So if you were to stop and just share one
final message with the audience that you want them to understand,
what would that be.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah, My message is, and I share this with my
clients and when I do events, is to embrace where
you are. It's exactly where you need to be.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Well, that's quick and short, Amber, I can't believe we're
out of time. I mean, this is a wonderful discussion
and it just fascinates me how quickly time goes by?
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, thank you so much. How do people find you?
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, you can go to www. Dot true connection dash
sorry www dot true connection sorry true connection, dot com.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yes, a www. Dot true.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Connection.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Dot dot net is a dot com or dot net.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Dot net Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I just got a new website, so I'm still figuring
figuring out what exactly it is, all.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
Right, I'll try to make sure that's in the comments.
Thank you so much. This this has been fascinating. And
you know what I find fascinating is you know, you
experienced that ten year situation and you came out of
that and have found yourself an incredible relationship, and you've
taken that experience and rather than becoming the victim of it,
(43:57):
you've now become the person to help others to go
through those similar type of situations and become the victor
of those situations. And to me, that's what it's really
all about. So kudos to you for doing that.
Speaker 4 (44:15):
Thank you, Thank you, Doug Well, thanks yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
And thanks for being on the show. And folks, thanks
for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it. I think you
will and get to that website if you find that.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
There's some areas that you really need some help with.
Speaker 5 (44:30):
So this is doctor Doug saying, now lets stay
Speaker 4 (44:41):
With
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
(00:51):
to do the same.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Ember, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Oh I died to have you on the show. You know,
this whole topic about relationships I think is so important,
and you know there's a few people to talk about it,
but I think you have some interesting insights, so you know,
i'd love I'm going to look forward to this, but
would you just kind of share with the audience.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Your background, sure, Yeah. I'm a relationship coach based out
of Asheville, North Carolina, and my focus is on mind
body connection and understanding how when we have body awareness
and use mindfulness on our relationships, it actually creates more
presence and more vulnerability and we're able to connect more fully.
(01:36):
And I also me and my husband own our business together.
He does counseling and I do coaching, and sometimes we
refer each other out or vice versa well.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
And that's interesting because he's a psychiatrist or psychologist, right.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
The therapist, he's a therapist.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Interesting how you have the therapy and have you have
the coaching.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And that's an interesting distinction, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah. I think that there's a lot of people who it's. Yeah,
it's becoming more and more of a thing. People are
interested in coaching and interested in therapy and they can
kind of be adjacent and so understanding that it's it
is different, and they can actually work very closely together.
I work with a lot of therapists and I think
(02:22):
that's the best way to do it of having wrap
around support. We all just we all need it.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, true.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
So you on your website, you you had an interesting story,
and I think to get this started, I'd love for
you to share your story behind quote true connection.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah. So I kind of grew up as most of us,
did not much knowledge about how to have a successful relationship,
just kind of watching movies or watching people around me.
But no one really was like, this is how you
have a healthy connection and reallylationship, and so I would
(03:02):
just kind of, you know, bump into people and just
be like, oh, this, this seems like it's working. And
I experienced a lot of painful experiences and was in
a lot of based on my own dynamics and you
know development, neural pathway development, I ended up being in
a lot of relationships with emotionally unavailable men, and I
(03:26):
just thought, as many clients I have, think like, oh,
this is just the way it is, like this is
how men are, or this is just how you know
my hand that I'm dealt. And I ended a ten
year relationship. We were never married, and it was a
great relationship within of itself, but there was a lot
lacking for me emotionally in that relationship and I just
(03:51):
had this kind of like alcoholics have, I just had
this breakdown moment of being like there has to be
something different because I started dating because I thought, oh,
it's going to be different. It's a different person. It
was the same type of person, it was just changing
the name. And so I started doing all kinds of
(04:13):
healing modalities, trainings, and I created my own path for
rewiring my neural pathway for who I attract and how
I present in a relationship and in dating, and everything changed.
It was kind of amazing. And I met my husband
and he was just enamored with me. And he's just
(04:37):
a very like, wonderful, securely attached person and we have
a beautiful marriage. We have two children, we own a
business together, and it's beyond my wildest dreams.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Wow. And you know, it's so interesting.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
We always talk about marriages and divorce and the divorce
rate in the US is so high.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I mean, what is it now, six or so? And
yet you know, it was interesting.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
In my previous life. Yeah, I was a dentist and
I used to work with different modalities, but one of
the areas that I just had a subspecialty in was
in people who had chronic had neck pain. And unfortunately,
in dentistry they called it TMJ, you know, and so
(05:25):
people would walk in and go, okay, doctor, I have
TMJ and I'm going no, no, no, no, no, you
have two. You got one on one side and one
on the other side, So tell me what's your problem.
And as we got into that and delved in the
actual problem, then we were able to come up with
a solution that actually worked, which was really wonderful to do.
And I think it's the same thing here that you
(05:46):
just shared that you know so often we don't get
to the cause of what's happening with these relationships, and
it sounded like, ultimately, after your ten years and other relationships,
that you finally kind of broke down. And by the way,
I've been through the same thing to the point that
you've done that inner work and literally changed who you are,
(06:12):
and that's not easy to do. But as you change that,
you attracted an entirely different person. So what I'd like
for you to do is share with the audience what
are some of the changes that you had to make,
and what are some of the changes that you as
you work with and I assume you work mainly with
ladies from what I could tell from your website, what
(06:34):
are some of the changes you work with them? To
make so that they can start getting into a healthier relationship.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, I have created a very specific six step process
and it's exactly what I did, and that's what I
walk women through, and I think anyone can really do it.
Even a listener right now could do it on their own.
And what I did is I to take a complete
inventory of my love life and my relationships and find
(07:06):
specific patterns of what was happening. Because there's always a pattern,
there's always a cycle to what's happening, and so it
could be, you know, a specific type of person or
a specific type of personality, and so I had to
do that audit, a relationship audit of my past relationships.
(07:26):
The next step is to get really clear about who
you are and what you want in your life and
your values, because if you're someone who is religious, you
need to probably be with someone who's also religious. That's
a very important value to some people, and not everyone
does that deep dive of their own values and who
(07:48):
they want in their lives. And that's what I had
to do, was really get clear about what my values were.
The next parts were creating very specific habits around my
dating so that I could have a regulated nervous system,
because if we're just regulated and in fight or flight
(08:09):
when we go on a date, we do not have
clear thinking or being flooded with so many chemicals and hormones,
it just shuts offs offline. And especially if you have
relational wounds and you get triggered, you're not making very
good choices in that moment. And so I had to
put very specific habits, like you know, a really simple
(08:31):
example is doing a five minute meditation before a date.
And everyone has these ways now that we're optimizing, like
our sleep and our eating, and people know about these
types of ways to regulate their nervous systems, but not
everyone is putting them specifically in that dating part to
where they can start a date that way and end
(08:53):
a date that way. And so that's what I did
as well, is I created self soothing habits so that
I had to regulate a nervous system during the dating journey.
And the next part was that I made sure that
I had a continuation of presence and mindfulness. I really
believe in mindful dating and present dating, so that you're
(09:14):
able to actually see this new person in front of
you because you're meeting someone for the first time, and
even if it's not a match, it still can be
an extraordinary experience just to like view someone new for
the first time with fresh eyes. And the last part
that I had to do for myself is create a
(09:35):
support system and accountability, because we don't change unless we
have that, unless we have accountability. As you know, you know,
it takes three months to change a habit, So this
is a skill set and if you want to change,
it does take time to put those things into place.
And that's what I had to do and that's what
(09:56):
I walk my clients through.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
So if you look at at the age of your clients,
do you find that there's a general age pattern that
you work with and if so.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, it tends to be women in their forties and fifties.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Women that have been married and divorced.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Yeah, So here's my question, you know, as we get
into the very first part of this, which is really
all of those things that occurred that are lodged there
in the subconscious mind, because you talk about neural plasticity
and the fact that we have developed these neural pathways
in our younger life to the point where we don't
(10:38):
even realize that they're controlling us, and we end up
attracting the very things that we wish we were avoiding,
but we don't know why. So here's my question, at
what age should someone really start looking at this? And
how do we help prevent such a high divorce rate
by getting to the cause here and working with young
(11:01):
people at a particular age. What age do you think
people should start really looking at this and parents should
start helping their children to start looking at this.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
That's a wonderful question. I really appreciate you asking that
because I would love to work with younger women. I
think it's just the demographic that tends to be drawn
to my work. And people go through a lot of
pain and they're like, Okay, you know, I'm ready to change.
But I on the earlier, the better teach your children
(11:37):
how to understand what they want and need, and I
do think there's a movement in that direction. I'm not
one hundred percent on board with gentle parenting, but I
think like respectful parenting and gentle parenting, those are actually
ways that we're teaching our children to feel safe in
their bodies so that they can actually give and receive
(11:58):
love to others. But definitely young women learning how to
I met with a young woman the other day at
an event who she was like, I know this doesn't
fully apply to me, but what's your advice for men?
Like this applies all to you, Like this is the
time you know, I don't want to meet you ten
(12:19):
years after an abusive relationship, like this is the time
to really understand who you are and what you want.
And the biggest takeaway really is having a regulated nervous system.
The more you are not in fight or flight, the
more you can connect easily with other people and understand
(12:41):
what your boundaries are and understand when something doesn't feel
like a good fit.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Well, and you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
I mean, I'm so tired of all the things they've
been teaching or young people in school that they shouldn't
be teaching. But the one thing that they should be
teaching is a very thing that you're talking about. Particularly,
you get to that age of eighteen, nineteen, twenty and
twenty one, and for some I think for women, their
(13:08):
brains form a little.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Bit faster than for men.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
But at the same time, how do you help these
young people to recognize at that age that they have
this myriad of subconscious experiences that are literally affecting their
life and their choices, and how do you help them
(13:32):
to become aware of that?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Number one?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
And then number two, what is your process because it's
got to be the same for the women that you
work with versus these younger people for them to actually
get in there, dive in and find out Number one,
what are these things that are really affecting me negatively
that shouldn't be? And number two, who am I really?
And I think that becomes the key to discover who
(13:57):
not who we are, but who we can become us
we get rid of a lot of that neural pathways
that have been affected by our childhood.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, And you know, I think it's so interesting because
with the rise of TikTok, I do think there's a
movement for young people with mental health because I think
a lot of older people right like, we're talking about
these things, and so I do think there is a
huge movement around mental health and how to cope with
(14:28):
day to day life. But it's a really good question
of how do you at that age especially I know
I was like this way, you couldn't tell me anything. Yeah,
But I really think it starts with the parents and
parents being able to do parenting in a way that
(14:51):
really values a child. That doesn't mean you just let
them do whatever they want or they get to, you know,
break the rules. We all need boundaries, but really starting
at a young age, understanding that it's okay to have feelings,
that you're safe, and that you're allowed to know what
you want and ask for what you want. I think
(15:14):
with some of the older generation parenting models it was
very much like, you know, don't talk, sit in a corner,
don't speak until you're spoken to, which was maybe worked
during that time, but I think it created a lot
of adults who were then like I don't know who
I am, I don't know who you are as my partner,
and it just creates a lot of conflict. And so
(15:36):
I do think there's a movement that's happening in that direction.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So what would you say the first step for a
young person who's in their early twenties that are getting
out there and dating and so forth, what are some
of the steps that if they were self aware enough
that they would actually start to do some of that
introspective work. What would be some of the first steps
you'd work with them to do, because I guarantee you
(16:01):
that that's what you do with your older clients. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Yeah, So the first step would really be get clear
about your values, what your belief systems are, who you are,
what your values are, what you're okay with, what you're
not okay with, because once you understand that, it's a
lot easier to when you meet someone out and about
and they just you know, because when we have chemistry
(16:28):
and attraction, it kind of just they gets us in
this different state of mind to where we don't fully
see someone for who they are and we're like, oh,
they're a smoker. I never wanted to be with a smoker,
but I'm really attracted in them, So maybe maybe they're
going to quit, right, But that should be a hard
line of that that is a very important value to you,
(16:50):
and you want someone in your life who doesn't smoke.
And even if you're young and not looking to get married,
you want people in your life that enhance the best
parts of you. And so knowing who you are, knowing
what your values are, then you can invite those people
into your life. And this type of process. I have
(17:11):
women who I have a support group too that goes
through the exact same process, who are like I apply
this to my friendships. I applied this to my coworkers
because it seems really simplistic, but it really is just
a matter of knowing what you are and knowing what
you want and inviting that into your life.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Well, and you talked a little bit about meditation, but
I want to go in a little bit deeper because values,
I agree with you, is totally extremely important. But that
doesn't necessarily yet in my opinion, at least into the
root causes. It's a part of the root cause. But
you have so many situations where people stay in relationships
(17:53):
that they should never stay in. They're codependent, and you
have situations where people feel like, you know what, I'm
just not worthy of someone really good, so they'll settle
for something different. How do you help these women to
get into that root cause of you know what, these
are the imprints that I have experienced from childhood that
(18:18):
are subconscious.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I don't even.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Recognize they're there, and yet it's affecting the outcome of
my life. How do you help them to recognize what
they are number one and number two changing and move
them away in the neural pathways and bring in new
neural pathways.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. The values part is just the
surface level. Really, it's a core wound of feeling unworthy
and that's what keeps people stuck in bad relationships and
toxic relationships. And the way that I do that is
very early on we do a relationship audit and relationship inventory,
(18:59):
which people hate, like this is horrible, but very quickly
we are able to see that, Okay, there's a very
core belief that. For example, something that comes up pretty
often is I don't get what I want, right, I don't.
I don't get what I want. And so the way
(19:22):
we work on that in session, a belief is something
that is very ingrained. Yeah, it's a neural pathway. We
try to confirm our beliefs constantly. That's what we all do.
We're all creating our reality. We're just walking around trying
to confirm our beliefs. And so really the first step
is understanding that neural plasticity. I really have to have
(19:45):
a conversation with my clients in the beginning that you
can change this neural pathway, you can change what you're perceiving.
And once I get by in where they can start
to see that yes, I'm starting to see that this
perse is changing a little bit. We take teeny tiny
micro steps of how that shows up. For example, going
(20:09):
to a coffee shop and you know this is from
a past client and wanting a specific being with a
group of people and wanting a specific thing and not
saying anything, and then get a resentful that no one
noticed that you wanted a specific thing. That is such
a such a small, beautiful moment of a way to
change that neural pathway, the ability to speak up and
(20:29):
say I want this thing, and then taking those tiny,
tiny steps and then being able to apply it on
a bigger scale of understanding that you are allowed to
ask for what you want.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
Well, you know, the word that comes to my mind
is discovery. How do you help these women to discover
those self sabotaging beliefs? How how do they become aware?
You know, you talked a little bit about mindfulness, and
we'll talk about that a little bit further hopefully, But
how do you help them to become mindful enough that
(21:05):
they are aware when those perceptions come up and those
emotions come up, recognizing that wow, you know that's not
who I am. This is something that has been imprinted
on me from early childhood and it's not doing me
any favors. How do you help them to recognize all
of those little items so that they can start to
(21:27):
really actually work on the problem.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, a lot of it is getting knee deep, knitty,
gritty in the dirt, and it's uncomfortable to have a
long conversation with someone just for an hour of and
some people some people show up and they're ready. They're ready,
like I want to go there and I want to
figure this out. Yeah, And the way I do that
(21:53):
is motivational interviewing, essentially asking questions because truly only we
know the answers of how to heal and what's going on.
And I would say ninety percent of people that I
work with have some sort of understanding of what's happening,
and sitting through an hour long conversation of someone just
being like, Oh, what did that mean? Why did you
(22:16):
do that? What did that bring up for you? Similar
to therapy, but we don't go too far into trauma.
But as I sit with women, and we truly start
to uncover pretty early on. With the women I work with,
we find a core belief like I don't deserve love,
or I'm unworthy of love, and we just hatch away
(22:38):
at that belief and I shouldn't use that kind of
language because I don't like that. Really, we hold the
belief and allow it and bring it to awareness and
even nurture it, because the more we avoid something, the
more it's going to come up. And so if we
allow those uncomfortable feelings, that's where the change actually happens.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
And you know, it's interesting as you say, you know,
and you don't like the words, but it's true, I'm
not good enough, you know, so on and so forth,
and when you think about that, people have to be right.
And so what I find interesting is we will do
the very things we're trying to avoid because subconsciously we're
(23:20):
trying to.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Prove ourselves right. And you know, you.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Talk about trauma, and as you know from the research,
there's a huge percentage of young people that have experienced trauma,
whether it's it's all different types of trauma, emotional, whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
That happens to be.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
How often do you find as you're working with clients
that they have experienced or at least their perception has been.
Sometimes it's real, and sometimes it's a perception that they
have experienced trauma in their early childhood and that literally
is affecting their ability to choose a positive, healthy relationship.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I would say most of my clients even just like
a you know, there's big T trauma and there's small
T trauma, and I would say most of my clients
have had some sort of small T trauma. And I
do a lot of work around attachment theory as well.
That's something that I do try to understand in the
beginning of what their attachment style is because it could
have been as simple as feeling ignored as a child, right,
(24:27):
you just feel ignored all the time, and then what
do you do. You're an adult and you're getting with
people who ignore you and you're you're like, I don't
want to do this, but there's just something that's happening.
And so that's that's a big thing that I focus on,
is understanding attachment style. And I think that's a really
(24:49):
good way and it can it really simplifies it because
there's there's three styles and most people can pretty quickly
put them themselves in those categories.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Well, and you know, as you.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Talk about trauma and the big tea and the load
and the small tea and I, you know, appreciate how
you say that your husband's a therapist. Yeah, okay, at
what point in time if someone has experienced a bad relationship,
they just got out of it, they're seeking some help,
They're looking to get some help from you, and you
recognize that, Wow, this is a big ta.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
What why would they want to go to.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
A therapist instead, if that's what you would suggest, And
if so, what's that therapist going to do that you
could not do?
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Great question. I love that you asked.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
That only because your husband's a therapist.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah, Well, I think it's really important. I think there's
there in the coaching world. I think there needs to
be some really good distinctions between that and not everyone
agrees with that, but that's for me. I think there's
some ethical questions with coaching, especially when you start coaching
in this internal way. And so if your trauma, like
even if it's a little teacher trauma, is affecting your
(26:02):
day to day life to where you can't get out
of bed or you're having a hard time going to work,
that would probably be more for therapy. Also for me,
if I have a client who has a diagnosed mental
health issue and they're not seeing a therapist, I will
refer out. I will not work with someone who unless
(26:24):
they've sought treatment, they have a treatment plan and they
know their treatment plan. But if they have a significant
mental health diagnosis, I will typically refer out if they
don't already have a therapist. I do work with a
lot of people who have a therapist, and me and
the therapists work together. And so the benefit of doing
(26:46):
that is that a therapist can diagnose, they can talk
about medication. They also do that deeper trauma work, and
some coaches will do that. But the difference is a
therapist has a supervisor typically or they're seeking outside council,
(27:06):
and so they have a treatment plan and so they
have a beginning, middle, and end, and they also use
modalities such as EMDR cognitive based therapy, and coaches can
get in that. But therapists have very very intensive training
of how to help someone process a trauma, and so
(27:30):
that would be the benefit of seeing a therapist. And
they can take insurance, so typically it's cheaper.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Well, and you know, as you look at it, how
many how many women have married their fathers, how many
men have married their mothers?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And obviously you work mainly with the women.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
But you know, I look at that and recognize that,
you know, so often we tend to and not even
recognizing because we all love our parents just some degree,
but not recognizing that we've married someone very similar, and
as we get a little bit older, recognizing that it's
those negative things that are really causing the challenge and
a relationship.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
What do you find with that?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Yeah, so we all have wounds that happen, and typically
they're caused by our parents. And I'm not trying to,
you know, talk bad about parents. It's just the reality,
especially in our relationships, that's what we're recreating is our
family dynamics, and so that wound, we're just looking for
(28:35):
the right fit for that wound. So, using the ignoring example,
if you felt ignored as a child, and you're a
woman and you're dating, and you're on a date with
a guy and he's on his phone the whole time.
Even though someone else might be like, oh, that is
not cool, that's rude for them to do that, somewhere
in your nervous system that feels right, and so you
(29:00):
might actually start having this anxious feeling like, oh, I
really want his attention I'm going to do more to
get his attention, or I'm going to text him the
next day really quickly because now I feel like I
need his attention. And so, yeah, I think that most
of us are recreating our family dynamics, and most family
dynamics are aren't that bad, really, but there's always stuff.
(29:24):
And so I think in general, the more we can
understand ourselves and understand what's happened to us, the more
we can create healthy, long lasting relationships. And I don't
think people some people think that relationships are meant to
be a roller coaster with ups and downs and fighting
and then which fighting is part of it, but it
(29:47):
relationships do not have to be a roller coaster that
doesn't have Families don't have to be a roller coaster.
And really, if you want to go even earlier, getting
into family therapy, if you're if you're you know, a
mom and you have a you're listening to this and
you're like, this is how me and my husband are
get into family therapy so that your kiddo can understand
(30:10):
what a healthy relationship looks like, because they are going
to make their partners based on how they see you.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Well, and you just hit my next point, and that's
his parents. I think so often. You know, we talk
about epigenetics, which is literally being able to change the
way things are. And I look at my own personal
family and recognize that I saw my dad and my
mom literally, at least my dad particularly literally change some
(30:40):
of those parenting patterns that he had experienced and it
made all the difference in the world for his children.
And I think we've done that. As I look at
my kids, my boys that have children, and we talk
about it, I've seen that they literally consciously are even
changing some things that from their person they wanted to
(31:01):
change as a parent. And I think, as you say,
there's a lot of people listening to this that are married,
that are struggling and don't realize that they literally can
be the foundation if they'd be willing to make those
changes themselves and those relationships to affect their children and
(31:21):
their grandchildren and their posterity beyond because they've been able
to change that habitual situation.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, and that's you know, people, there's a whole thing
about breaking generational curses, which kind of sounds extreme, and
I don't fully agree with that because it sounds but
there is a lineage that we all carry and a
trauma that we all carry with our family dynamics and
family history and being that person who breaks that cycle. Yeah,
(31:53):
you could be changing that for every generation to come,
which is really powerful.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, it really is.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
And you know, as you talk about as we start
getting into relationships, what is the main motivation in your experience,
what's the main motivation for two people to get into
a relationship as they get to be young adults.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, I mean, really it's connection. And I when I'm
working with people, I really try to hammer home the
idea that we're animals and we want to be together.
And this is the main thing, is that this is
(32:42):
inherently a part of who we are, is to connect
and love each other, and this is available to all
of us. There's just been some things I think messed
up in our society at some point, but we are
meant to be together and there's some things that out
now and I don't disagree with it fully, but I
(33:03):
have women who are like, you know, oh, I need
to be happy single. Yes, we should all be okay
when we're alone. We shouldn't be in fight or flight
when we're alone. But it's really so normal to have
a very intense desire to be with another person romantically.
This is a part of our DNA and finding ways
(33:27):
where you can do that and feel safe and healthy,
because I think people don't want to do it because
they're like, oh, it's always you know, drama or hard.
It does not have to be that way. That's that's
not the truth of who we are.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
Well, And you know, I think you've hit a good
point because society, at least the years past, have really
emphasized this, okay to be single and you know, just
be single, on and on and on, and yet I think
that desire for connection, that desire for intimacy. And when
we use the word intimacy, I'm not just talking about sex.
(34:04):
I'm talking about that intimate connection with another person where
you just feel connected, you feel loved, you feel one
with them. How do we recognize in another person, Number one,
that that is genuine intimacy as we just defined it.
(34:24):
How can you help someone as they're working with you
and all of a sudden they meet, you know, a guy,
and you're trying to help them to recognize that, Okay,
either this is ingenuine intimacy or this is truly a
genuine connection that if you really work at it together,
it can end up being a lasting relationship.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yeah, that's that's a great question. And this is where
I think it's so important. This mindfulness piece comes in.
And also, you know now people are starting to talk
about embodiment and really that that's that's like a cousin
to mindfulness. Understanding your body's signals is life changing, especially
(35:11):
as you meet people. So for example, and I love
that you talked about TMJ two because I think that
that's you know, and I'm sure you know you know
that whole tension it's just a queue from our bodies,
right like, hey, something you're something's not going right, Like,
let's let's talk about this. And so it's the same
when you meet someone. So if you're feeling really tense
(35:35):
and some anxiety is normal. But if you're feeling and
really scared, a dropping feeling in your stomach, if you're
having a lot of tension, even if on paper, this
person checks all the boxes, really tune into what your
body is telling you and slow down it. You know,
(35:55):
potentially it could be just anxiety or if you're having
some things come up on your own. But the more
you're ape because our bodies are constantly communicating with us
what's safe. And you know, people had experiences where they're,
you know, somewhere and they had a feeling and then
something happened. That's that's that's normal. That's not something that's
(36:18):
way out there. We're our bodies are constantly communicating with us,
and that is a really powerful tool in dating and relationships.
And that's another thing that we've kind of forgotten about
or ignored. And that's what I help women learn how
to do. Learn how to listen to themselves, that small
inner voice that's communicating with them, and also learn what's
(36:41):
happening in their body body wisdom, because if you're on
a date and you're just tense all over and you
have a headache after the date, there's a reason for that.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
You may not even.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, and you might not have an answer ever,
but but it's so important and to listen to well.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
And how do you help your clients to become mindful?
Because mindfulness is not necessarily an easy thing to accomplish.
I believe me, I understand that, and you know I try.
I try to meditate at least three to four times
a week for over an hour as I do my walking,
and you know, how do you help these women to
(37:27):
truly understand number one, what mindfulness is, and then number
two to be able to develop it to the point
that when that and I call them red flags start
to come up, they're able to go, Okay, this is
a red flag, I'm out of here.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Yeah. Mindfulness was a big part of my journey, and
I've been a practitioner for a long time meditation practitioner,
and one of the reasons why I corporate it into
my work is that whenever I was starting this journey,
I'd gone to a long retreat and I started doing
a thirty meditation and I was in this dynamic and
I was just so confused, and I kept using my
(38:05):
mental brain to be trying to figure it out, figure
it out, figure it out. And then I would sit
in meditation and slow down and get in touch with
my body, and all of a sudden, the answer became
very clear to me. And so I tell women who
have never meditated right that essentially it's slowing down, it's
(38:28):
getting out of the virtual reality that's happening here and
really tuning in to your body, your breath, allowing things
to slow down. Our brains are not always helpful. They're
really just constantly trying to solve a problem and to
fix something. And sometimes that's great, right if you have
(38:52):
a problem at work, But when you're trying to understand
complexities of relationships and really get in tune with what's happening,
slowing down being able to understand what is happening for
you and so essentially it's slowing down. That's that's where
(39:15):
I start.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Well, and it's interesting as I look at meditation, it
can literally change your life. It can move you into
an entirely different direction if you allow it to and
if you trust it.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Yeah, it allows us to be our true selves essentially,
and that's you know, that sounds hokey, but I do
think we live in this very fast paced society and
you know, all about success and getting to the next
thing and being really busy, which is okay too. You know,
there's there's there's times for that. But if you want to,
(39:54):
you know, understand, if you have a problem, any kind
of problem, it might not be a relationship. If you're
having a problem out work, If you allow yourself to
slow down a little bit, there's you're able to actually
listen to yourself and hear how you feel about something
and if you're just go go go in our brains
(40:15):
have started doing that too, just go go, go, go, go,
go go, and we are not listening to other people,
to ourselves, to our world, to our environment. And so
the ability to do that can definitely change everything.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
And how do you help your women clients to trust
themselves as they go through that process?
Speaker 4 (40:39):
Yeah, that's hard. Yeah. What comes up around this is
that for me with my clients is I've I've built
this story that I attract these certain types of men,
and so when I meet someone, how do I I
(41:00):
know the difference between a fight or flight response, normal anxiety,
red flag? And essentially it's time, it's time and practice.
This is a skill set. This is something that can
be taught. And as you're slowing down learning how to
(41:21):
listen to that small, still voice inside of you, over
time you'll start to build new memories of meeting someone
picking up on a red flag, coming back to me
or someone else and being like, oh, I noticed that
he was doing that thing, so I decided not to
go back out with him, and it's like, oh, you
did it. And so you build a new memory. And
(41:44):
that's how we build new neuropathways is by creating new memories.
And that's why it's so important to work with someone,
either a therapist or a coach, so that you can
start to notice those new memories and recreate them because
you want to come back to that. You want to
be like, oh, yeah, I did did that thing. I
was able to say no, even though it all looked
good on paper. I was able to say no. And
(42:06):
sometimes you're like, oh, I was able to get out
a really bad relationship even though I loved him so much,
and now I'm so much happier. That's building a new
neural pathway. And that's how we begin to trust ourselves
is by doing these things and seeing the reward and benefit.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
So if you were to stop and just share one
final message with the audience that you want them to understand,
what would that be.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah, My message is, and I share this with my
clients and when I do events, is to embrace where
you are. It's exactly where you need to be.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Well, that's quick and short, Amber, I can't believe we're
out of time. I mean, this is a wonderful discussion
and it just fascinates me how quickly time goes by?
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, thank you so much. How do people find you?
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, you can go to www. Dot true connection dash
sorry www dot true connection sorry true connection, dot com.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yes, a www. Dot true.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Connection.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Dot dot net is a dot com or dot net.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Dot net Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I just got a new website, so I'm still figuring
figuring out what exactly it is, all.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
Right, I'll try to make sure that's in the comments.
Thank you so much. This this has been fascinating. And
you know what I find fascinating is you know, you
experienced that ten year situation and you came out of
that and have found yourself an incredible relationship, and you've
taken that experience and rather than becoming the victim of it,
(43:57):
you've now become the person to help others to go
through those similar type of situations and become the victor
of those situations. And to me, that's what it's really
all about. So kudos to you for doing that.
Speaker 4 (44:15):
Thank you, Thank you, Doug Well, thanks yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
And thanks for being on the show. And folks, thanks
for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it. I think you
will and get to that website if you find that.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
There's some areas that you really need some help with.
Speaker 5 (44:30):
So this is doctor Doug saying, now lets stay
Speaker 4 (44:41):
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