May 26, 2025 • 42 mins
Join Rich Alderton as he shares powerful insights on adaptability, overcoming fear, and embracing change as a path to success. Learn how to shift your mindset, conquer imposter syndrome, and turn challenges into opportunities. Discover the key to thriving in an ever-changing world!
https://www.highperformancechange.com
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https://www.highperformancechange.com
Inspire Vision Podcast is broadcast on K4HD Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
(00:51):
to do the same.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Rich welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Well, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey, I'm excited to have you here. So where are
you from?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Uh? From Tebridge, England's okay?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
And so that's where you're located now?
Speaker 4 (01:03):
That is right now, yep, just between Cambridge and London. Oh,
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
The other day I interviewed someone from Peru, so it's
just like it's becoming worldwide.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I love it. Yeah, that's slightly more exhaustic.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Yeah, So what I'd love for you to do is
to kind of share with the audience your background, who
you are, some of the things that you've accomplished, because
you have quite an amazing background, and then kind of
the journey that led you to this point in writing
your book, your ebook, and also just doing what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Oh cricky, Okay, sure. Well. Look, when I left university,
I wanted leadership experience as soon as I could. So
the fastest way to get that was to get my
hands dirty in the supply chain, and I ended up
starting off working the night shift on the strips or
(01:55):
packing line in a factory, and I work my way
out and ended up running a billion dollar global supply chain,
sitting on the board of a listed company. And look,
on my journey, what I realized was that I seem
to enjoy change, and that seemed to be quite rare,
(02:16):
not certainly not unique, But most people, I found, resist
most change most of the time. And that doesn't really
matter where you are, what your background is, what your
job title says, how many stripes you've got on your arm.
In fact, sometimes senior leaders can be the most most
resistant to change. So yeah, I kind of decided to
(02:39):
to kind of make that, make that my life. So
I had, I had climbed a corporate ladder. I ran
that supply chain, I was CEO of a few companies.
I lived in Sweden. I spent nine years in New
Zealand before coming back here. So yeah, I've been around
a bit and I've worked in most corporate functions. I've
(03:00):
been very lucky to do that. I've done manufacturing, purchasing, logistics, sales, marketing,
so I've you know, I've worked from Aberdeen to Auckland,
so I've subjected myself to a fair better change. And
what I realized was, ultimately, although I enjoyed being a CEO,
(03:22):
getting up every morning to make rich people slightly richer,
wasn't really doing it for me. And when I realized
that actually my vocation was, you know, to help as
many people as I could enjoy, rather than endure the
life of change that surely lies ahead for us all,
then it became a easy decision actually just to jump
(03:44):
off the wheel and take that big leap that I'd
always been too scared to do of setting up on
my own, which I did ten years ago, and dedicating
my career to developing mys and techniques and training and
teaching that helps people become more open to the idea
(04:07):
of change, which is adaptability is all about my subject.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yeah, And you know what I find interesting is that
you know, I'm never to the level you are, believe me.
But you know, for a while I was working with
very small businesses as a business consultant and mentor, and
what I found was that everything that they were experiencing
in business relative to certain areas they were experiencing in life.
(04:36):
And when we changed an element in their business, it
changed an element in their life. And so today, as
I mentioned earlier before it came on the show, I
really want to focus on all of those concepts that
you've developed that I know are just helping the leaders
of these big companies and so forth. But I guarantee
you these concepts would help anyone who is listening today
(04:59):
as far as how can they become more adaptable to change?
Because as you said, and you made the comment, you
know you were so fearful and making that change, and
yet you did it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You did it, okay, and so let's talk.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
About that as far as change and why is it
so difficult for people to make changes? And we'll talk
about you know, your focus on that adaptability, But what
is so difficult for us to make change in our lives.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Well, the good news is that it's not our fault. Well,
it kind of is. It's an evolutionary reaction that we have.
We've developed over the last fifty thousand years to as
a self protecting mechanism to perceive any change as a
potential threat to our security. Whatever situation we're in right
(05:54):
now might not be ideal. We might only just be
able to cover the mortgage, we might have all the
we might we're having a few arguments with friends or
family or you know, But whatever is going on in
our lives, we are actually safe and secure. And if
we're not, then we're very prepared to change to get
to that base level of the bottom levels of Maslow's hierarchy.
(06:15):
But for most of us lucky enough to have a
roof over our heads and enjoy the basics, what we
really want to do is just blacken down the hatches,
because any change could threaten to take that away from us.
So we actually have mechanisms that the fear mechanism neurologically
(06:36):
is designed to stop us from thinking. So when we
are faced with fear, when we are faced with a
clear and present danger, that is the cause of fear,
that saber tooth tiger jumping out in front of us.
And what our brain does at that moment is it
actually shuts itself down from thinking. Imagine that the world's
(06:57):
largest supercomputer. Imagine what size the off switch must be.
But that's exactly what we do, and we stop thinking,
and we go into this kneejer fight or flight or
freeze response that everybody knows, we're all biochemists, and we
actually just kneeda respond. And you know, that was a
(07:20):
self protecting mechanism that made us move rather than think,
which could have been the difference between being life and
lunch back in the day. But actually, if you look
in your HR manual at work, sorry to go back
to work, but you know both of those things, fighting
or fleeing from work are both entreplineary offenses. These days,
(07:41):
they're not terribly helpful. So we've got to find ways
to override that. And just coming back to your very
first point in your question, there what I love about
talking to people and helping people become more adaptable. Is
You're absolutely right. Even if I'm doing this in a
corporate environment, I say to them, I say to my leaders,
(08:04):
this is a skill that doesn't stop at five point
thirty in the afternoon. You know, this is the way
that most organizations deal with change is that they treat
it like a business process. You know, we're going to
put in a new IT system and it's going to
have a beginning, a middle, and an end. It's a project.
But actually change adaptability isn't isn't a business process. It's
(08:25):
an attitude to life. And when you start exploring what
gets me very excited is when you start exploring our
relationship with change, when you can start to see even
negative change as the opportunity to make a positive difference,
then you start seeing change for what it really is,
which is that it's the chance to make a difference
(08:48):
in life. And then you get into a whole existential
debate about why are we here and if the answer
to that is anything other than we just want to
sit on our hands until the pension of the four
one K kicks in, then if you're actually here to
make any kind of difference, then grabbing hold of change,
embracing change, even the worst kind of change, you know,
(09:10):
the loss of a loved one, losing your job, whatever
it is. You know, it's not just about resilience. This
resilience is designed as having the ability to bounce back.
Adaptability is all about having the ability to bounce higher
and to take whatever that negative was and actually emerge
from that bigger, faster, better, stronger than you were before.
(09:34):
And I believe that anybody can do that in any
situation if they so have the will, and there are
the means to learn that.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, and you know it's interesting. I remember that when
I was working with Dennis in particular. One of the
first things I'd say to them when I started working
with them as a client, as I said, you know it,
you've got five employees. I can guarantee you one of
them is going to be gone within six weeks. And
the reason I knew that is because within that percentage,
(10:07):
there was always one person that really didn't want to
be there, and to some degree they were actually shooting
everybody else in the back without anyone knowing it. And
it always happened, It always happened. But when you think
about business, when we think about people in their lives,
how often do we find ourselves stuck in a situation
(10:28):
and we keep living our life, keep experiencing whatever we're
experiencing our business, keep experience that same thing, and the
fear of change, of the unknown is so strong that
oftentimes it prevents us from doing anything about it. My
daughter was getting her master's degree in sociology and was
(10:48):
ready to move on to a PhD. And she called me,
she says, Dad, I'm just not feeling right about something.
And it took her probably six months to realize that
that she didn't want to go on and get that PhD.
She wanted to get out into the business world and
did wanted more of a balanced life than what.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
She saw was going to happen. And what I found
was the fear of the unknown for her was so.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Great that it really took her a long time to
make that decision. So, as you work with businesses, or
if you're working with people in general, how do you
help them to understand number one, that change can be
valuable in their lives. It can literally change their experiences
of life or of business. And number two, how to
(11:35):
overcome that fear of change and become adaptable to where
they can make the change and make it a positive
experience for themselves.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Sure, so what I do is I start off talking
to people about their fears and anxieties. Now, it's important
to differentiate between the two. We use those two terms
interchangeably in common parlance, but actually they are different things.
And that's not just a you know, from the flature
(12:06):
point of intellectual impress If we understand that they are different,
then we can actually treat them differently too. So fear
is your reaction to a clear and present danger, it's
that saber tooth tiger that appears. Anxiety is what you
feel when that saber tooth tiger disappears back off into
the long grass and you don't know where he is anymore,
(12:28):
and all of a sudden, you're wondering if you're the
fastest runner in the village, or more or more appropriately,
the slowest. Anxiety is your reaction to your future perceived
negative state. So immediately there are differences right between fear
and anxiety. Fear is your reaction to something that's real
(12:48):
and something that's actually happening. Right now, You've just been
told that you're going to be let go. Anxiety is
making up y stuff in your mind about what could
possibly go wrong in the future. And here's how here's again,
it's another self protecting mechanism. Anxiety is a car crash
(13:10):
of two absolutely brilliant things that we have going for
us as humans. The first is, and it's one of
the reasons we run the planet for better or worse,
is that we have this ability to imagine a future
that doesn't yet exist. We have imagination. And the other
is this self protecting mechanism where we have negativity bias,
(13:32):
as the psychologists call it, which is we tend to
think about what could possibly go wrong. Again, that's really
good if you're out on the savannah hanging around with
saber toothed tigers on their own. Each of those is
really useful. But as you can see, put those two
things together, a highly active imagination with the ability to
(13:53):
see the negative or the focus on the negative, and
all of a sudden, what we do is we take
a potential negative scenario, then we multiply that by another
potential negative scenario. Then eventually we multiply that by our
phone number. And what we've created for ourselves is a
cliff and we end up perceiving ourselves at rock bottom
(14:16):
at the bottom of that. And a study and State
University said that ninety percent of what we worry about
never actually happens. Now, that's not to dismiss the anxiety
that is one hundred percent real that results from that,
but we consume a huge amount of energy worrying about
stuff that doesn't matter. So one of the one of
(14:39):
the antidotes to anxiety is what psychologists call rational emotional
behavior therapy or what I call rational thoughtfulness, which is
you have to sit as judge and jury on yourself
and actually question is this thought that I'm having, is
it really real? Is it likely to happen? Or am
(15:00):
I just playing it so safe that it's affecting my
ability to actually do anything about controlling my future? Right. So,
once we've once we've understood that that in itself, gales
fall from people's eyes. Clients I've had, when they understand
and they've got a label and they can better understand
(15:22):
why they're feeling what they're feeling and why they're feeling it,
that is half the journey. And look, I've got a
whole bunch of antidotes to combat the reasons that we
resist change that generate fear and anxiety. But once once
you've done that, what you're effectively doing is helping people
to get out of their own way. Fear can be controlled.
(15:43):
You can't stop feeling fear, but you can control it.
You can absolutely manage your anxiety. The American Psychological Association
says that anxiety is imminently treatable. The problem is identifying it,
of course, because we're all really world class keeping our
anxieties hidden, aren't we. And once you've got out of
(16:04):
your way, then you can start seeing change for what
it is, which are a couple of things, the ability
to make a difference, to be relevant, to add value,
and the other one. Ultimately, it gives us the freedom
to grow as individuals, to take that negativity or whatever
it was. We can go from negative to neutral, we
can go from good to great. Change gives us the
(16:25):
opportunity to learn about ourselves in ways that the status
quo can only dream of. And that's what I'm really
try and instill in people is that even when bad
things happen to you, look good things might happen to you.
Bad things are definitely going to happen to you. If
you've already got friends and loved ones, at some point
you're going to lose friends or you're going to physically
(16:48):
lose loved ones. These things happen, but it's how It's
not what happens to your life, of course, it's how
you deal with it and your attitude towards those of
If you can see change in those terms, then that
kind of changes everything. Well.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
And you know, one of the things that I have found,
and I love the philosophy on this, is that as
we're living our lives, we set certain goals, we may
reach them and all of a sudden, it's like, what
do we do next? I just achieved what I wanted
to do achieve and again then you get into this
whole concept of change, and I use the word adventure,
and for me, it's like, you know what, when you
(17:28):
can get to the point that you're going to be
willing to have an adventure in your life, it makes
an entire difference in your experience of life. It creates curiosity,
it creates excitement, and as you say so often, it
gives us the ability to make a difference in other
people's lives.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
That's absolutely spot on, Because let's go to definitions, because
you've used the word curiosity there. If you look up
adaptability in the dictionary, it says something like the ability
to adjust to new conditions, which is entirely correct, a
little bit dry, and almost entirely useless at explaining to
(18:08):
us what it is and what it feels like to
be more adaptable. So I've redefined it along three lines.
It is about having the curiosity you'll bang on to
see the need or opportunity for change. It is about
having the courage to actually make that change happen, and
that speaks to your word adventure. And it's about having
(18:30):
the velocity to make the right turn in the right
direction at the right time, because, as we all know,
if you do the right thing at the wrong time,
it can still yield the wrong result unfortunately. So if
you've got all of those three things, and if you
can see any change that you face in those terms,
then you're absolutely right. I wouldn't agree with you more.
(18:53):
Life is an adventure, and adventures don't always go according
to plan.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Yeah, And as you say that, when you know we
do the right thing at the right time, sometimes we'll
do the wrong thing at the right time, or we'll
do the right thing at the wrong time, and you know,
when that occurs, then you get into this concept of
gratitude and the fact that you know, what, I just
made a mistake, and rather than beating myself up about it,
(19:18):
what did I learn? Because we're not perfect in our decisions.
We're not one hundred percent perfect ever, so to be
able to move forward and to keep on that adventure
and recognize, Okay, I'm going to make some mistakes, but
I'm going to learn from them and readapt and that's
where you get into the adaptability again. All of a sudden,
you find yourself on that path of moving this way
(19:39):
and that way, and this way and that way, but
ultimately you're going on a straight line.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
If you were to do that, you don't want. This
is a point again, I completely agree. It's a point
of frustration for me back to my corporate environment that
there's there's a lot of talk by people like me
and you on on shows like saying, look, it's okay
to fail. And I absolutely believe that, you know, fail
(20:06):
stands for first attempt in learning and Nelson Mandela, I
either win or I learn, you know, either way, I
win and all of these things are true. The trouble
is that in the real world I see an awful
lot of leaders and even if people are only putting
the context of this discussion in their personal lives, you know,
(20:27):
we most of us go to work that there is
still there is still a resistance to change our attitude
that we were brought up. I maybe my generation, we
were brought up with the idea that all failure is bad,
all failure is negative, and I think for a lot
of people in the real world, it's still very difficult
(20:47):
for them to accept that failure is part of success,
the journey towards success and let alone. You know, they
had to grit their teeth to pat somebody on the back.
I can say, you know, you failed, but you tried hard,
and you're made of the right stuff, and we really
want our people to model this behavior and ultimately we
(21:09):
will succeed if we keep failing forwards. You know, there's
a lot of people that read articles about that stuff,
listen to things like this and just can't bring themselves
to actually do it in the real world. But myself
and people like you hopefully can get that message out there.
That's you know, if you fail, if you fail in
a small way, If you fail in a small way
(21:30):
that is reversible, where you can you go down the
wrong path and you can come back up and go
back down a different route. That's the kind of spirit
of adventure that you need to embrace change and for
that to end up being successful.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well, And it's really a mindset change.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
It's really you know, we talk about emotional intelligence, we
talk about general intelligence. I know you talk about adaptability intelligence,
but the reality is it's a mindset that we have
to change. So as you're working with corporate leaders and
you see that they're so resistant to change, and you
know that it really is a focus of that mindset
(22:10):
that they have, and regardless of what's underneath that's causing that,
how do you help them to change their mindset and
begin to understand truly that change is okay and it's
an adventure.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
It's this, it's this kind of two two step approach.
I suppose there's it's not written. It's not really carrot
and stick, but it is. It is about helping people
get out of their own way. That in itself is
big news for a lot of people who feel that
that kind of fear and anxiety when when you when
(22:45):
you even say the words change, it unges up. All
sorts of your brain comes alive. You're an MRI scan
of people who hear the word change. You know it
will be a complete light show going on in there.
What people have really struggled to understand inherently is that
even negative change can be an opportunity for you to
(23:09):
learn and grow and make a difference. That's the big difference.
And I suppose when I say to people, when you
remember the last time that you became more adaptable, I've
only ever had one person say I can remember exactly
when I became more adaptable, and it was the day
after my best friend died and I realized that life
(23:30):
was for living and I better start doing things pretty
differently right now. You know, it's pretty profound. For most people.
They either don't believe it's possible or they've never really
thought about it, which is strange when you do think
about it, given the world of increasing uncertainty and complexity
that we live in. Our relationship with change is really
(23:54):
about our relationship with life. And when you start painting
a bigger picture like that, for people, it helps them
to become more comfortable with the idea. Ultimately, what we're
trying to do here is get people to come outside
of their comfort zone, and that, by definition, is an
uncomfortable thing to do. Yes, So what you've got, what
(24:15):
you've got to do is convince people that they can
get out of their own way, that there is a
pot of honey at the end of the rainbow. There
are reasons to embrace it. Oh and by the way,
if you don't, if you wait until the platform is burning,
then you are you are going to get burned. And
(24:36):
it's better to jump on your own terms than be
pushed when you absolutely have no option but to embrace change,
so that the motto of that you hear is change
will be changed is absolutely true.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
Well, and you know, as you talk about then a
smile and big when you said, you know, convince people
that they have to make a change or that they
can make a change, Well, in my mind, we can
never convince anyone of anything. They need to convince themselves.
So here's my question is you're working with individuals, whether
they're be in business or otherwise, how do you help
(25:11):
them to understand that number one change needs to occur
and number two, they can internally make that change.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
So what you have to do well. The way I
do it, anyway, is to tap into people's popes and dreams.
I suppose it is maybe a bit a bit of
a flowery way of saying it, but what is it
that people want to achieve? Now? If the kind of
people that I deal with are normally reasonably ambitious people,
(25:42):
they haven't They haven't called me just to tell me
that their life is fine and that they don't want
to change anything. So the people that I normally deal
with do want some form of change. What I also
find out is that the issue is never the issue,
and the reason that people contact is never the real
reason when we when we get down to it. But
(26:04):
if you talk to people about what is it that
blank canvas? What is it that you actually want to achieve?
And then and then they will paint some picture for
you that involves either a small or large degree of change.
And then we then we go back to, well, okay,
what's the reality right now? And then what are the
hurdles that are stopping you? And then we just gently
(26:29):
break down those hurdles we understand what they are. Lots
and lots of questioning why do you think this is
a hurdle. Why do you think it's something that you
that either exists, because it might may not. And if
it does exist, why do you think that you can't
overcome it? And then we'll look at examples in their
their life and we'll talk about the best things that
(26:50):
have happened to them, the worst things that have happened
to them, and how they've coped. And what you'll always
find is that people people tend to underestimate themselves. And
if you actually go digging, you don't have to do
too much digging in the past. You know, I'm not
a psychoanalyst or anything. I'm just an x CEO who
got excited about helping people deal with change. But what
(27:11):
you'll find is people have actually been through probably more
than they realize, and come out the other side, maybe
even stronger. So the path that they want to go
on is actually a path they've already started along. And
all I'm going to do is boost them and catalyze
that journey with you know, a few antidotes who combat
(27:33):
the reasons they resist change, and a few stimulants to
boost the reasons they love it. And then you know, you.
You you help them find what that roadmap is and
then gently help them along that and there you go,
it's not you know, it's not a difficult model.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Well, and you know, I was We were having a
discussion like this in a previous podcast, and they brought
up the concept of a ladder, and I brought up
a kind of scept Okay, here's the goals that we're
trying to achieve. And this sent me as you were
talking that here is one possible way for people to
really develop this courage and the bravery to make that change,
(28:11):
because all right, here's my goal. It's at the top
of the ladder. So if we go to the previous rung,
what happens to what has to happen there in order
to achieve that goal? And all of a sudden you
go to wrong previous rung, previous rung, previous rung, and
all of a sudden you get down to the here
and now, and they're going, Wow, I have got to
(28:31):
make this change if I really wanted to accomplish that goal.
And I think it's so wonderful when people can become
a little bit of analytical and work backwards from that
goal rather than jumping forward and realizing, you know, it's
step by step I can climb that ladder, but I've
got to be willing at this rung to do what
(28:51):
I have to do in order to get to the
next rung. Up.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, absolutely, the Stephen Covey start with the end in mind.
Absolutely right. So yeah, I couldn't. Again, I couldn't. I
couldn't agree more that the model that I've developed for
adaptability intelligence is also a ladder. It's only got four rungs.
But the basic philosophy says that if you can learn
(29:17):
to control your fear, and you can, then you are
much less likely to feel the benctious or feel anxiety
about whatever it is that you think and imagine might
be waiting for you over the horizon or around the corner.
And once you've managed to control your fear and manage
your anxiety, then you can start seeing change as an
(29:39):
opportunity for relevance, to make a difference and to add
value to society, if we're not getting too overblown here.
And then ultimately it is about then using change as
a vehicle to explore the boundaries of what you yourself
are capable of doing. And if that is in any
(30:00):
way translated into what your personal goal is. Then absolutely
you work backwards and say, well, if you want to
see changes, even negative change is something positive. We need
to figure out how you're going to work on your
fear and anxiety. Otherwise you're never going to get past
those stages and you're going to be perpetually in a
vicious cycle, digging yourself a big deep hole that becomes
(30:25):
too big, too deep for you to pull yourself out
of it. Which is why lots of anxiety therapies, like
talking therapies, being open and transparent and vulnerable. They all
rely on the energy of others, which is which is
one of the key things that I that I help
my clients with that. You know, porking is talking.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
Is good well, and it always does it. It always boils
down to that fear and anxiety. And I really I
love how you've kind of separated the two because one is,
as you say, real to some degree, but the anxiety
is the emotion that we have allowed to occur in
our lives because of that fear. And to be able
to change that mindset and be able to recognize that, Okay,
(31:11):
I'm starting to feel anxious. Why Why and all of
a sudden as you start to look at that and
kind of step outside of yourself and start to really
analyze what's going on.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
That can make such a difference.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
Now, I know you've got some good stories, do you
any of them that you can share? As far as
working with clients and what has happened for them?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
I suppose the most common generic one that I deal
with with corporate class. The biggest problem that people have
and non smiling is that they get promoted, not that
they lose their job. Because if people lose their job,
it's pretty simple as to what you have to do
and helping them. And you know, all of those mechanisms
(31:52):
that are in place in corporate society, recruitment consultants and cvs,
and you know, there's a kind of set process. But
what happens when you actually get what you wish for
and you're or don't and you're promoted into a role
that is way beyond you. You know, when you know
that people like Michelle Obama have got imposter syndrome, then
(32:15):
then you know that anybody can get it right. And
imposter syndrome is absolutely I am. I am surprised in
the time that I've set up this business. I had
no idea just how prevalent imposter syndrome is.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Define impasture syndrome through the artist.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Oh, I'm not I'm not good enough. I am not
as good as everybody thinks I am. I don't deserve
to be here, I don't deserve to have what I've got,
and I'm a complete fraud. And at some point somebody
is going to find me out. And if I'm if
I'm promoted, then they're going to find out faster.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
And yeah, they want their promotion. They want their promotion.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, because they've had that conversation with me. They define
what the heart of gold looks like at the end
of their rainbow where they're trying to get to in
their life. And this is this role is absolutely part
of the roadmap. So I know I want it, but
I don't want it. I want it, but I don't
want I can do this. I haven't got a clue
how to do this. You know, all these all these
(33:17):
things are going on in our minds. So the thing
to do is really to help people just rationalize, tether
them back to planet and just say why do you think?
Why do you think you? And I have done this.
I did this just quite recently actually with somebody. But
I'm trying to keep it reasonably generic that that that
(33:39):
person was saying exactly all of those things, I'm going
to get found out. And I said, Okay, why do
you think you've been promoted? So don't use their words,
use their bosses, their new bosses words. So why why
were they given so you somebody else's words? Because we're
much more likely to believe other people than ourselves. I'm
(34:00):
the least trustworthy person here. I don't know what I'm
talking about, and I don't deserve this role. You know,
that's the mindset that we're in. So why do they
think that you were worthy? Can you call on any
experience that you've been through that would make you think that,
actually you've got the basic foundations and the gap here, Yeah,
there's a gap. There should be a gap. Nobody goes
(34:22):
into a new role fully competent. Otherwise it's not a
challenge and it's not an adventure. But that gap may
be smaller than you think. And it's really just a
question of talking them through, working through with their fears
and their anxieties. And you know, I've got a whole
bunch of tools that can help people deal with that,
and I mentioned rational thoughtfulness. That's a really useful one
(34:47):
because it forces people to have a rational conversation with
them and most of the time anxiety is not rational.
In small doses, anxiety can actually be really helpful. Problem is,
we're not very good at containing anxiety to to small doses.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
So one of the things I'm sorry, go ahead, sorry, oh,
I was going to say.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
One of the things that you mentioned that I saw
in one of your talking points was talking about a
client that you that was self sabotaging.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
And that really struck me.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Because I think so often in life we find ourselves
self sabotaging and preventing ourselves from actually.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Accomplishing what we could accomplish. Can you share the story?
Can you Can you share that story with the ideas?
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yeah? I can. I can absolutely share that. So, yeah,
this this this person. It's quite kind of tiring, and
it's frustrating when somebody doesn't see you know. I've been
a CEO. I've led teams with hundreds of people based
on four continents, and the hardest and easiest part of
(35:53):
my job has been pulling the ego maniacs down off
their misguided pedestals, you know, when they think that they're
so much better than they actually are. It's frustrating to
do the other way around though, when you are trying
to convince really good talented people that they are they
are better than they are. And you see that if
(36:17):
you don't solve this problem, and if this problem doesn't
get solved, then the trajectory that you can see for
that person, for where they're going versus what their potential
could take them to, that those lines are just company
who diverge exponentially, and this person is going to be
a waste of talent and dare I say it, in
(36:39):
my opinion, a waste of life. And that's why I'm
so keen that people embrace change, even the tough stuff,
because it's really existential about why we're here. So anyway,
this person just wasn't having a bar of it. That
they wouldn't they wouldn't accept that they were ready to
(37:01):
step up, that they were as good as I was saying.
They thought I was just you know, being a nice coach. Sorry,
and yeah, so it was really again just a question
of talking through and when their mind was running away
with them. I used another of my favorite tools, which
(37:24):
is mindfulness with them. Now, everyone, it's good. These days,
everyone knows what mindfulness is. And I don't claim to
be an expert. I certainly don't do any of the
technical stuff yoga and breathing and meditation and all of that.
For me, even at its most base level, which is
just that concept of living in the moment, it is
(37:46):
the perfect antidotes to anxiety. And here's why. Remember I said,
anxiety is about your negative, your perceived negative future states.
So what we what we make for ourselves is this
exponential curve going into the future where we fall off
a cliff. Well, the more that we can live in
(38:06):
the moment, the further back up that cliff we bring
our mind and our thoughts. Now, I don't claim to
be perfectly mindful. I don't always live just in the moment.
But the more that you can live in today and
understand that mindfulness is about letting go of the future,
letting go of the past, letting go of judgment, and
(38:28):
just accepting things and appreciating things for what they are
right here, right now, then by definition, the more that
you're doing that, the less, by definition that you can
feel anxious, and it's that anxiety about if I accept
this job, if I dare to believe that I'm as
good as this guy is saying I am, then all
(38:51):
of these expectations will be upon me, and that's a burden.
I just don't think that this person just didn't think
that they were capable of doing those things. And what
you've got to do is rationalize with them, make them
live in the moment, make them turn all of that
energy in their mind that was going towards the anxiety.
(39:12):
Here's the thing, right. Your brain only weighs three percent
of your body weight, but it consumes twenty percent of
your energy. So when people say that anxiety is exhausting,
they're not talking metaphorically. It actually consumes calories and it
is genuinely exhausting. And if Penn State University are right,
then most of that energy is wasted. And my job
(39:36):
is to help people the self sabotages or the people
who think they've got impostera syndrome, is to help them
use all of that energy and turn it on its head.
It becomes a double whammy. Not only have we neutralized
that negative, but we've then got all of that energy
available to us to actually do the rational thoughtfulness so
(39:59):
that I can have a proper conversation with myself about
am I really thinking the right thoughts when I say
I'm not good enough? And and nine times out of ten,
if I'm telling somebody that they're good I'm pretty tough,
you know, as a pretty tough CEO. If I'm telling
people they're good enough, then then the chances are they
probably are and they'll come to that conclusion. You know.
(40:19):
In this case, I got most of the way there.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Great, So so let me ask you a question.
Speaker 5 (40:24):
How do people find you? And I know you've written
an ebook. What's the name of that book? And how
can people access that book? As far as what is
it called? Mastering Adaptability?
Speaker 4 (40:34):
That's right? Yeah, So everything you need to know about
the work that I do is on high Performance Change
dot com. That's all one word, high Performance change dot com.
There's the ebook on there, there's access to the ebook,
there's lots of blogs on there, there's videos, it's all
it's all free. The ebook is free. It's for anybody
(40:57):
who wants it. It's there, and I'm I'm delighted to
open the doors to whoever is interested. Oh, wonderful.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
So as we're close, is there a final message.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
That you'd like to share with the idea? Well, there is,
and it is this and what really excites me, and
it comes back to an earlier point. The only thing
that I would want anyone to take away and remember
about anything that I've said is this. It is entirely
possible to become more adaptable. It is not something that
is baked into your DNA and that you're just lucky
(41:29):
or not lucky enough to be born with. We call
it a form of intelligence because it can be learned
and applied. Looks like maths or musical or martial art.
Adaptability intelligence is just another form of intelligence, and you
can learn it. We've provided a roadmap that will take
you from the fear of change through to the freedom
(41:49):
to change. And although there's only four steps on that ladder,
it's life changing and anybody who can do it if
they want to.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Wonderful, Well, Rich, thanks so much. Is this has been
a great conversation.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
I've really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for having me on. Well,
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
And folks, I hope, I hope this has made a
difference for you and get get on that website. I've
actually gone there is fascinating and to have an ebook
that you can download is really tremendous and thank you
for that Rich. So meanwhile, folks, thanks for listening. Hope
you'll join us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying
no mistay
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
(00:51):
to do the same.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Rich welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Well, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey, I'm excited to have you here. So where are
you from?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Uh? From Tebridge, England's okay?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
And so that's where you're located now?
Speaker 4 (01:03):
That is right now, yep, just between Cambridge and London. Oh,
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
The other day I interviewed someone from Peru, so it's
just like it's becoming worldwide.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I love it. Yeah, that's slightly more exhaustic.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Yeah, So what I'd love for you to do is
to kind of share with the audience your background, who
you are, some of the things that you've accomplished, because
you have quite an amazing background, and then kind of
the journey that led you to this point in writing
your book, your ebook, and also just doing what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Oh cricky, Okay, sure. Well. Look, when I left university,
I wanted leadership experience as soon as I could. So
the fastest way to get that was to get my
hands dirty in the supply chain, and I ended up
starting off working the night shift on the strips or
(01:55):
packing line in a factory, and I work my way
out and ended up running a billion dollar global supply chain,
sitting on the board of a listed company. And look,
on my journey, what I realized was that I seem
to enjoy change, and that seemed to be quite rare,
(02:16):
not certainly not unique, But most people, I found, resist
most change most of the time. And that doesn't really
matter where you are, what your background is, what your
job title says, how many stripes you've got on your arm.
In fact, sometimes senior leaders can be the most most
resistant to change. So yeah, I kind of decided to
(02:39):
to kind of make that, make that my life. So
I had, I had climbed a corporate ladder. I ran
that supply chain, I was CEO of a few companies.
I lived in Sweden. I spent nine years in New
Zealand before coming back here. So yeah, I've been around
a bit and I've worked in most corporate functions. I've
(03:00):
been very lucky to do that. I've done manufacturing, purchasing, logistics, sales, marketing,
so I've you know, I've worked from Aberdeen to Auckland,
so I've subjected myself to a fair better change. And
what I realized was, ultimately, although I enjoyed being a CEO,
(03:22):
getting up every morning to make rich people slightly richer,
wasn't really doing it for me. And when I realized
that actually my vocation was, you know, to help as
many people as I could enjoy, rather than endure the
life of change that surely lies ahead for us all,
then it became a easy decision actually just to jump
(03:44):
off the wheel and take that big leap that I'd
always been too scared to do of setting up on
my own, which I did ten years ago, and dedicating
my career to developing mys and techniques and training and
teaching that helps people become more open to the idea
(04:07):
of change, which is adaptability is all about my subject.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yeah, And you know what I find interesting is that
you know, I'm never to the level you are, believe me.
But you know, for a while I was working with
very small businesses as a business consultant and mentor, and
what I found was that everything that they were experiencing
in business relative to certain areas they were experiencing in life.
(04:36):
And when we changed an element in their business, it
changed an element in their life. And so today, as
I mentioned earlier before it came on the show, I
really want to focus on all of those concepts that
you've developed that I know are just helping the leaders
of these big companies and so forth. But I guarantee
you these concepts would help anyone who is listening today
(04:59):
as far as how can they become more adaptable to change?
Because as you said, and you made the comment, you
know you were so fearful and making that change, and
yet you did it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You did it, okay, and so let's talk.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
About that as far as change and why is it
so difficult for people to make changes? And we'll talk
about you know, your focus on that adaptability, But what
is so difficult for us to make change in our lives.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Well, the good news is that it's not our fault. Well,
it kind of is. It's an evolutionary reaction that we have.
We've developed over the last fifty thousand years to as
a self protecting mechanism to perceive any change as a
potential threat to our security. Whatever situation we're in right
(05:54):
now might not be ideal. We might only just be
able to cover the mortgage, we might have all the
we might we're having a few arguments with friends or
family or you know, But whatever is going on in
our lives, we are actually safe and secure. And if
we're not, then we're very prepared to change to get
to that base level of the bottom levels of Maslow's hierarchy.
(06:15):
But for most of us lucky enough to have a
roof over our heads and enjoy the basics, what we
really want to do is just blacken down the hatches,
because any change could threaten to take that away from us.
So we actually have mechanisms that the fear mechanism neurologically
(06:36):
is designed to stop us from thinking. So when we
are faced with fear, when we are faced with a
clear and present danger, that is the cause of fear,
that saber tooth tiger jumping out in front of us.
And what our brain does at that moment is it
actually shuts itself down from thinking. Imagine that the world's
(06:57):
largest supercomputer. Imagine what size the off switch must be.
But that's exactly what we do, and we stop thinking,
and we go into this kneejer fight or flight or
freeze response that everybody knows, we're all biochemists, and we
actually just kneeda respond. And you know, that was a
(07:20):
self protecting mechanism that made us move rather than think,
which could have been the difference between being life and
lunch back in the day. But actually, if you look
in your HR manual at work, sorry to go back
to work, but you know both of those things, fighting
or fleeing from work are both entreplineary offenses. These days,
(07:41):
they're not terribly helpful. So we've got to find ways
to override that. And just coming back to your very
first point in your question, there what I love about
talking to people and helping people become more adaptable. Is
You're absolutely right. Even if I'm doing this in a
corporate environment, I say to them, I say to my leaders,
(08:04):
this is a skill that doesn't stop at five point
thirty in the afternoon. You know, this is the way
that most organizations deal with change is that they treat
it like a business process. You know, we're going to
put in a new IT system and it's going to
have a beginning, a middle, and an end. It's a project.
But actually change adaptability isn't isn't a business process. It's
(08:25):
an attitude to life. And when you start exploring what
gets me very excited is when you start exploring our
relationship with change, when you can start to see even
negative change as the opportunity to make a positive difference,
then you start seeing change for what it really is,
which is that it's the chance to make a difference
(08:48):
in life. And then you get into a whole existential
debate about why are we here and if the answer
to that is anything other than we just want to
sit on our hands until the pension of the four
one K kicks in, then if you're actually here to
make any kind of difference, then grabbing hold of change,
embracing change, even the worst kind of change, you know,
(09:10):
the loss of a loved one, losing your job, whatever
it is. You know, it's not just about resilience. This
resilience is designed as having the ability to bounce back.
Adaptability is all about having the ability to bounce higher
and to take whatever that negative was and actually emerge
from that bigger, faster, better, stronger than you were before.
(09:34):
And I believe that anybody can do that in any
situation if they so have the will, and there are
the means to learn that.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, and you know it's interesting. I remember that when
I was working with Dennis in particular. One of the
first things I'd say to them when I started working
with them as a client, as I said, you know it,
you've got five employees. I can guarantee you one of
them is going to be gone within six weeks. And
the reason I knew that is because within that percentage,
(10:07):
there was always one person that really didn't want to
be there, and to some degree they were actually shooting
everybody else in the back without anyone knowing it. And
it always happened, It always happened. But when you think
about business, when we think about people in their lives,
how often do we find ourselves stuck in a situation
(10:28):
and we keep living our life, keep experiencing whatever we're
experiencing our business, keep experience that same thing, and the
fear of change, of the unknown is so strong that
oftentimes it prevents us from doing anything about it. My
daughter was getting her master's degree in sociology and was
(10:48):
ready to move on to a PhD. And she called me,
she says, Dad, I'm just not feeling right about something.
And it took her probably six months to realize that
that she didn't want to go on and get that PhD.
She wanted to get out into the business world and
did wanted more of a balanced life than what.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
She saw was going to happen. And what I found
was the fear of the unknown for her was so.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Great that it really took her a long time to
make that decision. So, as you work with businesses, or
if you're working with people in general, how do you
help them to understand number one, that change can be
valuable in their lives. It can literally change their experiences
of life or of business. And number two, how to
(11:35):
overcome that fear of change and become adaptable to where
they can make the change and make it a positive
experience for themselves.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Sure, so what I do is I start off talking
to people about their fears and anxieties. Now, it's important
to differentiate between the two. We use those two terms
interchangeably in common parlance, but actually they are different things.
And that's not just a you know, from the flature
(12:06):
point of intellectual impress If we understand that they are different,
then we can actually treat them differently too. So fear
is your reaction to a clear and present danger, it's
that saber tooth tiger that appears. Anxiety is what you
feel when that saber tooth tiger disappears back off into
the long grass and you don't know where he is anymore,
(12:28):
and all of a sudden, you're wondering if you're the
fastest runner in the village, or more or more appropriately,
the slowest. Anxiety is your reaction to your future perceived
negative state. So immediately there are differences right between fear
and anxiety. Fear is your reaction to something that's real
(12:48):
and something that's actually happening. Right now, You've just been
told that you're going to be let go. Anxiety is
making up y stuff in your mind about what could
possibly go wrong in the future. And here's how here's again,
it's another self protecting mechanism. Anxiety is a car crash
(13:10):
of two absolutely brilliant things that we have going for
us as humans. The first is, and it's one of
the reasons we run the planet for better or worse,
is that we have this ability to imagine a future
that doesn't yet exist. We have imagination. And the other
is this self protecting mechanism where we have negativity bias,
(13:32):
as the psychologists call it, which is we tend to
think about what could possibly go wrong. Again, that's really
good if you're out on the savannah hanging around with
saber toothed tigers on their own. Each of those is
really useful. But as you can see, put those two
things together, a highly active imagination with the ability to
(13:53):
see the negative or the focus on the negative, and
all of a sudden, what we do is we take
a potential negative scenario, then we multiply that by another
potential negative scenario. Then eventually we multiply that by our
phone number. And what we've created for ourselves is a
cliff and we end up perceiving ourselves at rock bottom
(14:16):
at the bottom of that. And a study and State
University said that ninety percent of what we worry about
never actually happens. Now, that's not to dismiss the anxiety
that is one hundred percent real that results from that,
but we consume a huge amount of energy worrying about
stuff that doesn't matter. So one of the one of
(14:39):
the antidotes to anxiety is what psychologists call rational emotional
behavior therapy or what I call rational thoughtfulness, which is
you have to sit as judge and jury on yourself
and actually question is this thought that I'm having, is
it really real? Is it likely to happen? Or am
(15:00):
I just playing it so safe that it's affecting my
ability to actually do anything about controlling my future? Right. So,
once we've once we've understood that that in itself, gales
fall from people's eyes. Clients I've had, when they understand
and they've got a label and they can better understand
(15:22):
why they're feeling what they're feeling and why they're feeling it,
that is half the journey. And look, I've got a
whole bunch of antidotes to combat the reasons that we
resist change that generate fear and anxiety. But once once
you've done that, what you're effectively doing is helping people
to get out of their own way. Fear can be controlled.
(15:43):
You can't stop feeling fear, but you can control it.
You can absolutely manage your anxiety. The American Psychological Association
says that anxiety is imminently treatable. The problem is identifying it,
of course, because we're all really world class keeping our
anxieties hidden, aren't we. And once you've got out of
(16:04):
your way, then you can start seeing change for what
it is, which are a couple of things, the ability
to make a difference, to be relevant, to add value,
and the other one. Ultimately, it gives us the freedom
to grow as individuals, to take that negativity or whatever
it was. We can go from negative to neutral, we
can go from good to great. Change gives us the
(16:25):
opportunity to learn about ourselves in ways that the status
quo can only dream of. And that's what I'm really
try and instill in people is that even when bad
things happen to you, look good things might happen to you.
Bad things are definitely going to happen to you. If
you've already got friends and loved ones, at some point
you're going to lose friends or you're going to physically
(16:48):
lose loved ones. These things happen, but it's how It's
not what happens to your life, of course, it's how
you deal with it and your attitude towards those of
If you can see change in those terms, then that
kind of changes everything. Well.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
And you know, one of the things that I have found,
and I love the philosophy on this, is that as
we're living our lives, we set certain goals, we may
reach them and all of a sudden, it's like, what
do we do next? I just achieved what I wanted
to do achieve and again then you get into this
whole concept of change, and I use the word adventure,
and for me, it's like, you know what, when you
(17:28):
can get to the point that you're going to be
willing to have an adventure in your life, it makes
an entire difference in your experience of life. It creates curiosity,
it creates excitement, and as you say so often, it
gives us the ability to make a difference in other
people's lives.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
That's absolutely spot on, Because let's go to definitions, because
you've used the word curiosity there. If you look up
adaptability in the dictionary, it says something like the ability
to adjust to new conditions, which is entirely correct, a
little bit dry, and almost entirely useless at explaining to
(18:08):
us what it is and what it feels like to
be more adaptable. So I've redefined it along three lines.
It is about having the curiosity you'll bang on to
see the need or opportunity for change. It is about
having the courage to actually make that change happen, and
that speaks to your word adventure. And it's about having
(18:30):
the velocity to make the right turn in the right
direction at the right time, because, as we all know,
if you do the right thing at the wrong time,
it can still yield the wrong result unfortunately. So if
you've got all of those three things, and if you
can see any change that you face in those terms,
then you're absolutely right. I wouldn't agree with you more.
(18:53):
Life is an adventure, and adventures don't always go according
to plan.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Yeah, And as you say that, when you know we
do the right thing at the right time, sometimes we'll
do the wrong thing at the right time, or we'll
do the right thing at the wrong time, and you know,
when that occurs, then you get into this concept of
gratitude and the fact that you know, what, I just
made a mistake, and rather than beating myself up about it,
(19:18):
what did I learn? Because we're not perfect in our decisions.
We're not one hundred percent perfect ever, so to be
able to move forward and to keep on that adventure
and recognize, Okay, I'm going to make some mistakes, but
I'm going to learn from them and readapt and that's
where you get into the adaptability again. All of a sudden,
you find yourself on that path of moving this way
(19:39):
and that way, and this way and that way, but
ultimately you're going on a straight line.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
If you were to do that, you don't want. This
is a point again, I completely agree. It's a point
of frustration for me back to my corporate environment that
there's there's a lot of talk by people like me
and you on on shows like saying, look, it's okay
to fail. And I absolutely believe that, you know, fail
(20:06):
stands for first attempt in learning and Nelson Mandela, I
either win or I learn, you know, either way, I
win and all of these things are true. The trouble
is that in the real world I see an awful
lot of leaders and even if people are only putting
the context of this discussion in their personal lives, you know,
(20:27):
we most of us go to work that there is
still there is still a resistance to change our attitude
that we were brought up. I maybe my generation, we
were brought up with the idea that all failure is bad,
all failure is negative, and I think for a lot
of people in the real world, it's still very difficult
(20:47):
for them to accept that failure is part of success,
the journey towards success and let alone. You know, they
had to grit their teeth to pat somebody on the back.
I can say, you know, you failed, but you tried hard,
and you're made of the right stuff, and we really
want our people to model this behavior and ultimately we
(21:09):
will succeed if we keep failing forwards. You know, there's
a lot of people that read articles about that stuff,
listen to things like this and just can't bring themselves
to actually do it in the real world. But myself
and people like you hopefully can get that message out there.
That's you know, if you fail, if you fail in
a small way, If you fail in a small way
(21:30):
that is reversible, where you can you go down the
wrong path and you can come back up and go
back down a different route. That's the kind of spirit
of adventure that you need to embrace change and for
that to end up being successful.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well, And it's really a mindset change.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
It's really you know, we talk about emotional intelligence, we
talk about general intelligence. I know you talk about adaptability intelligence,
but the reality is it's a mindset that we have
to change. So as you're working with corporate leaders and
you see that they're so resistant to change, and you
know that it really is a focus of that mindset
(22:10):
that they have, and regardless of what's underneath that's causing that,
how do you help them to change their mindset and
begin to understand truly that change is okay and it's
an adventure.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
It's this, it's this kind of two two step approach.
I suppose there's it's not written. It's not really carrot
and stick, but it is. It is about helping people
get out of their own way. That in itself is
big news for a lot of people who feel that
that kind of fear and anxiety when when you when
(22:45):
you even say the words change, it unges up. All
sorts of your brain comes alive. You're an MRI scan
of people who hear the word change. You know it
will be a complete light show going on in there.
What people have really struggled to understand inherently is that
even negative change can be an opportunity for you to
(23:09):
learn and grow and make a difference. That's the big difference.
And I suppose when I say to people, when you
remember the last time that you became more adaptable, I've
only ever had one person say I can remember exactly
when I became more adaptable, and it was the day
after my best friend died and I realized that life
(23:30):
was for living and I better start doing things pretty
differently right now. You know, it's pretty profound. For most people.
They either don't believe it's possible or they've never really
thought about it, which is strange when you do think
about it, given the world of increasing uncertainty and complexity
that we live in. Our relationship with change is really
(23:54):
about our relationship with life. And when you start painting
a bigger picture like that, for people, it helps them
to become more comfortable with the idea. Ultimately, what we're
trying to do here is get people to come outside
of their comfort zone, and that, by definition, is an
uncomfortable thing to do. Yes, So what you've got, what
(24:15):
you've got to do is convince people that they can
get out of their own way, that there is a
pot of honey at the end of the rainbow. There
are reasons to embrace it. Oh and by the way,
if you don't, if you wait until the platform is burning,
then you are you are going to get burned. And
(24:36):
it's better to jump on your own terms than be
pushed when you absolutely have no option but to embrace change,
so that the motto of that you hear is change
will be changed is absolutely true.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
Well, and you know, as you talk about then a
smile and big when you said, you know, convince people
that they have to make a change or that they
can make a change, Well, in my mind, we can
never convince anyone of anything. They need to convince themselves.
So here's my question is you're working with individuals, whether
they're be in business or otherwise, how do you help
(25:11):
them to understand that number one change needs to occur
and number two, they can internally make that change.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
So what you have to do well. The way I
do it, anyway, is to tap into people's popes and dreams.
I suppose it is maybe a bit a bit of
a flowery way of saying it, but what is it
that people want to achieve? Now? If the kind of
people that I deal with are normally reasonably ambitious people,
(25:42):
they haven't They haven't called me just to tell me
that their life is fine and that they don't want
to change anything. So the people that I normally deal
with do want some form of change. What I also
find out is that the issue is never the issue,
and the reason that people contact is never the real
reason when we when we get down to it. But
(26:04):
if you talk to people about what is it that
blank canvas? What is it that you actually want to achieve?
And then and then they will paint some picture for
you that involves either a small or large degree of change.
And then we then we go back to, well, okay,
what's the reality right now? And then what are the
hurdles that are stopping you? And then we just gently
(26:29):
break down those hurdles we understand what they are. Lots
and lots of questioning why do you think this is
a hurdle. Why do you think it's something that you
that either exists, because it might may not. And if
it does exist, why do you think that you can't
overcome it? And then we'll look at examples in their
their life and we'll talk about the best things that
(26:50):
have happened to them, the worst things that have happened
to them, and how they've coped. And what you'll always
find is that people people tend to underestimate themselves. And
if you actually go digging, you don't have to do
too much digging in the past. You know, I'm not
a psychoanalyst or anything. I'm just an x CEO who
got excited about helping people deal with change. But what
(27:11):
you'll find is people have actually been through probably more
than they realize, and come out the other side, maybe
even stronger. So the path that they want to go
on is actually a path they've already started along. And
all I'm going to do is boost them and catalyze
that journey with you know, a few antidotes who combat
(27:33):
the reasons they resist change, and a few stimulants to
boost the reasons they love it. And then you know, you.
You you help them find what that roadmap is and
then gently help them along that and there you go,
it's not you know, it's not a difficult model.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Well, and you know, I was We were having a
discussion like this in a previous podcast, and they brought
up the concept of a ladder, and I brought up
a kind of scept Okay, here's the goals that we're
trying to achieve. And this sent me as you were
talking that here is one possible way for people to
really develop this courage and the bravery to make that change,
(28:11):
because all right, here's my goal. It's at the top
of the ladder. So if we go to the previous rung,
what happens to what has to happen there in order
to achieve that goal? And all of a sudden you
go to wrong previous rung, previous rung, previous rung, and
all of a sudden you get down to the here
and now, and they're going, Wow, I have got to
(28:31):
make this change if I really wanted to accomplish that goal.
And I think it's so wonderful when people can become
a little bit of analytical and work backwards from that
goal rather than jumping forward and realizing, you know, it's
step by step I can climb that ladder, but I've
got to be willing at this rung to do what
(28:51):
I have to do in order to get to the
next rung. Up.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, absolutely, the Stephen Covey start with the end in mind.
Absolutely right. So yeah, I couldn't. Again, I couldn't. I
couldn't agree more that the model that I've developed for
adaptability intelligence is also a ladder. It's only got four rungs.
But the basic philosophy says that if you can learn
(29:17):
to control your fear, and you can, then you are
much less likely to feel the benctious or feel anxiety
about whatever it is that you think and imagine might
be waiting for you over the horizon or around the corner.
And once you've managed to control your fear and manage
your anxiety, then you can start seeing change as an
(29:39):
opportunity for relevance, to make a difference and to add
value to society, if we're not getting too overblown here.
And then ultimately it is about then using change as
a vehicle to explore the boundaries of what you yourself
are capable of doing. And if that is in any
(30:00):
way translated into what your personal goal is. Then absolutely
you work backwards and say, well, if you want to
see changes, even negative change is something positive. We need
to figure out how you're going to work on your
fear and anxiety. Otherwise you're never going to get past
those stages and you're going to be perpetually in a
vicious cycle, digging yourself a big deep hole that becomes
(30:25):
too big, too deep for you to pull yourself out
of it. Which is why lots of anxiety therapies, like
talking therapies, being open and transparent and vulnerable. They all
rely on the energy of others, which is which is
one of the key things that I that I help
my clients with that. You know, porking is talking.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
Is good well, and it always does it. It always boils
down to that fear and anxiety. And I really I
love how you've kind of separated the two because one is,
as you say, real to some degree, but the anxiety
is the emotion that we have allowed to occur in
our lives because of that fear. And to be able
to change that mindset and be able to recognize that, Okay,
(31:11):
I'm starting to feel anxious. Why Why and all of
a sudden as you start to look at that and
kind of step outside of yourself and start to really
analyze what's going on.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
That can make such a difference.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
Now, I know you've got some good stories, do you
any of them that you can share? As far as
working with clients and what has happened for them?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
I suppose the most common generic one that I deal
with with corporate class. The biggest problem that people have
and non smiling is that they get promoted, not that
they lose their job. Because if people lose their job,
it's pretty simple as to what you have to do
and helping them. And you know, all of those mechanisms
(31:52):
that are in place in corporate society, recruitment consultants and cvs,
and you know, there's a kind of set process. But
what happens when you actually get what you wish for
and you're or don't and you're promoted into a role
that is way beyond you. You know, when you know
that people like Michelle Obama have got imposter syndrome, then
(32:15):
then you know that anybody can get it right. And
imposter syndrome is absolutely I am. I am surprised in
the time that I've set up this business. I had
no idea just how prevalent imposter syndrome is.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Define impasture syndrome through the artist.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Oh, I'm not I'm not good enough. I am not
as good as everybody thinks I am. I don't deserve
to be here, I don't deserve to have what I've got,
and I'm a complete fraud. And at some point somebody
is going to find me out. And if I'm if
I'm promoted, then they're going to find out faster.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
And yeah, they want their promotion. They want their promotion.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, because they've had that conversation with me. They define
what the heart of gold looks like at the end
of their rainbow where they're trying to get to in
their life. And this is this role is absolutely part
of the roadmap. So I know I want it, but
I don't want it. I want it, but I don't
want I can do this. I haven't got a clue
how to do this. You know, all these all these
(33:17):
things are going on in our minds. So the thing
to do is really to help people just rationalize, tether
them back to planet and just say why do you think?
Why do you think you? And I have done this.
I did this just quite recently actually with somebody. But
I'm trying to keep it reasonably generic that that that
(33:39):
person was saying exactly all of those things, I'm going
to get found out. And I said, Okay, why do
you think you've been promoted? So don't use their words,
use their bosses, their new bosses words. So why why
were they given so you somebody else's words? Because we're
much more likely to believe other people than ourselves. I'm
(34:00):
the least trustworthy person here. I don't know what I'm
talking about, and I don't deserve this role. You know,
that's the mindset that we're in. So why do they
think that you were worthy? Can you call on any
experience that you've been through that would make you think that,
actually you've got the basic foundations and the gap here, Yeah,
there's a gap. There should be a gap. Nobody goes
(34:22):
into a new role fully competent. Otherwise it's not a
challenge and it's not an adventure. But that gap may
be smaller than you think. And it's really just a
question of talking them through, working through with their fears
and their anxieties. And you know, I've got a whole
bunch of tools that can help people deal with that,
and I mentioned rational thoughtfulness. That's a really useful one
(34:47):
because it forces people to have a rational conversation with
them and most of the time anxiety is not rational.
In small doses, anxiety can actually be really helpful. Problem is,
we're not very good at containing anxiety to to small doses.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
So one of the things I'm sorry, go ahead, sorry, oh,
I was going to say.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
One of the things that you mentioned that I saw
in one of your talking points was talking about a
client that you that was self sabotaging.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
And that really struck me.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Because I think so often in life we find ourselves
self sabotaging and preventing ourselves from actually.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Accomplishing what we could accomplish. Can you share the story?
Can you Can you share that story with the ideas?
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yeah? I can. I can absolutely share that. So, yeah,
this this this person. It's quite kind of tiring, and
it's frustrating when somebody doesn't see you know. I've been
a CEO. I've led teams with hundreds of people based
on four continents, and the hardest and easiest part of
(35:53):
my job has been pulling the ego maniacs down off
their misguided pedestals, you know, when they think that they're
so much better than they actually are. It's frustrating to
do the other way around though, when you are trying
to convince really good talented people that they are they
are better than they are. And you see that if
(36:17):
you don't solve this problem, and if this problem doesn't
get solved, then the trajectory that you can see for
that person, for where they're going versus what their potential
could take them to, that those lines are just company
who diverge exponentially, and this person is going to be
a waste of talent and dare I say it, in
(36:39):
my opinion, a waste of life. And that's why I'm
so keen that people embrace change, even the tough stuff,
because it's really existential about why we're here. So anyway,
this person just wasn't having a bar of it. That
they wouldn't they wouldn't accept that they were ready to
(37:01):
step up, that they were as good as I was saying.
They thought I was just you know, being a nice coach. Sorry,
and yeah, so it was really again just a question
of talking through and when their mind was running away
with them. I used another of my favorite tools, which
(37:24):
is mindfulness with them. Now, everyone, it's good. These days,
everyone knows what mindfulness is. And I don't claim to
be an expert. I certainly don't do any of the
technical stuff yoga and breathing and meditation and all of that.
For me, even at its most base level, which is
just that concept of living in the moment, it is
(37:46):
the perfect antidotes to anxiety. And here's why. Remember I said,
anxiety is about your negative, your perceived negative future states.
So what we what we make for ourselves is this
exponential curve going into the future where we fall off
a cliff. Well, the more that we can live in
(38:06):
the moment, the further back up that cliff we bring
our mind and our thoughts. Now, I don't claim to
be perfectly mindful. I don't always live just in the moment.
But the more that you can live in today and
understand that mindfulness is about letting go of the future,
letting go of the past, letting go of judgment, and
(38:28):
just accepting things and appreciating things for what they are
right here, right now, then by definition, the more that
you're doing that, the less, by definition that you can
feel anxious, and it's that anxiety about if I accept
this job, if I dare to believe that I'm as
good as this guy is saying I am, then all
(38:51):
of these expectations will be upon me, and that's a burden.
I just don't think that this person just didn't think
that they were capable of doing those things. And what
you've got to do is rationalize with them, make them
live in the moment, make them turn all of that
energy in their mind that was going towards the anxiety.
(39:12):
Here's the thing, right. Your brain only weighs three percent
of your body weight, but it consumes twenty percent of
your energy. So when people say that anxiety is exhausting,
they're not talking metaphorically. It actually consumes calories and it
is genuinely exhausting. And if Penn State University are right,
then most of that energy is wasted. And my job
(39:36):
is to help people the self sabotages or the people
who think they've got impostera syndrome, is to help them
use all of that energy and turn it on its head.
It becomes a double whammy. Not only have we neutralized
that negative, but we've then got all of that energy
available to us to actually do the rational thoughtfulness so
(39:59):
that I can have a proper conversation with myself about
am I really thinking the right thoughts when I say
I'm not good enough? And and nine times out of ten,
if I'm telling somebody that they're good I'm pretty tough,
you know, as a pretty tough CEO. If I'm telling
people they're good enough, then then the chances are they
probably are and they'll come to that conclusion. You know.
(40:19):
In this case, I got most of the way there.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Great, So so let me ask you a question.
Speaker 5 (40:24):
How do people find you? And I know you've written
an ebook. What's the name of that book? And how
can people access that book? As far as what is
it called? Mastering Adaptability?
Speaker 4 (40:34):
That's right? Yeah, So everything you need to know about
the work that I do is on high Performance Change
dot com. That's all one word, high Performance change dot com.
There's the ebook on there, there's access to the ebook,
there's lots of blogs on there, there's videos, it's all
it's all free. The ebook is free. It's for anybody
(40:57):
who wants it. It's there, and I'm I'm delighted to
open the doors to whoever is interested. Oh, wonderful.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
So as we're close, is there a final message.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
That you'd like to share with the idea? Well, there is,
and it is this and what really excites me, and
it comes back to an earlier point. The only thing
that I would want anyone to take away and remember
about anything that I've said is this. It is entirely
possible to become more adaptable. It is not something that
is baked into your DNA and that you're just lucky
(41:29):
or not lucky enough to be born with. We call
it a form of intelligence because it can be learned
and applied. Looks like maths or musical or martial art.
Adaptability intelligence is just another form of intelligence, and you
can learn it. We've provided a roadmap that will take
you from the fear of change through to the freedom
(41:49):
to change. And although there's only four steps on that ladder,
it's life changing and anybody who can do it if
they want to.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Wonderful, Well, Rich, thanks so much. Is this has been
a great conversation.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
I've really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for having me on. Well,
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
And folks, I hope, I hope this has made a
difference for you and get get on that website. I've
actually gone there is fascinating and to have an ebook
that you can download is really tremendous and thank you
for that Rich. So meanwhile, folks, thanks for listening. Hope
you'll join us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying
no mistay
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