March 17, 2025 • 42 mins
Join Dr. Doug and Susan Hensley, author of Art for Your Sanity, as they explore the transformative power of art journaling. Discover how this creative practice helps process emotions, navigate life transitions, and uncover personal values. Susan shares her journey from corporate life to coaching and explains how anyone can use art journaling—even without artistic skills—to tap into inner wisdom, expand possibilities, and embrace authenticity.
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Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Inspire Vision Podcast is broadcast on K4HD Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Inspire Vision Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
(00:51):
to do the same.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Susan, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Oh thank you for having me. Doug, I'm thrilled to
be here.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm really pleased. This is going to be an interesting
topic and I'm excited to really learn about what you're
doing and while you're doing it. So forth, I'd love
for you to share with the on Age your journey,
what brought you to this point and go ahead and
take the time to kind of share with your life
and how it all came to this point.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Sure, well, given my age termed sixty the past year,
it's a bit of a winding path. But I professionally,
I started off as a broadcast journalist and did that
for a number of years. And then, as happens, life
(01:39):
takes a veer and our first professions no longer fit us.
And what happened is, you know, children are having a
child and I was anchoring. You know, it's eleven thirty
five at night, and you work weekends and news, and
that just wasn't compatible with you know, my view. It
(02:01):
was one thing to work, but it was another thing
not to be around at nights and holidays and to
be called out urgently. So really switched careers, took up
a sharp turn, moved across the country and started a
career in corporate America, where I did a number of things.
I initially started in training in human resources, then worked
(02:23):
in strategy, did some time overseas as an expad and
a business unit in Asia. Came back sort of really
to work in HR and fell in love with with coaching,
executive coaching, career coaching, business coaching within that and really
(02:45):
really enjoyed that. During that time, I took up a
hobby quite by accident of art journaling. Now that isn't
I have to always pause because that's going to be
I'm going.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
To ask you. Well, I'm going to ask you that
definition later on.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Okay, perfect, I'll just say now, it's not about making art.
You know, to get your head initially wrapping around it,
think of what most people understand what a written journal is,
or you know, keeping a diary. This is using art, crayons, paints,
collage in that same way. So I yeah, so it's
(03:23):
never about the end product. It's a what I call colorful, visual,
right brained way to journal so deeply private. I started
that during the last I don't know five plus years
of my corporate career, and that also hit during the pandemic,
and it really I realized art journaling was such a
(03:47):
great way to tap into my inner wisdom to process emotions.
You know, all that coaching experience I had and all
the tools that I was fortunate enough to gain doing
that professionally and certifications sort of really taught me to
(04:07):
pay attention when you both love something and it's giving
you insights into yourself and really guiding you. So the
Art Journal helped me to recognize it was time to
leave that career. Now, the Art Journal didn't say write
a book about me because that's what happened. Let's be clear,
it's not like the oracle. Life is not that easy,
(04:28):
but it definitely started to show me that it was
time for a change. And that was now three years ago,
and in that half I ended up as I've continued
doing both business coaching meaning executive coaching and career coaching,
but I got more into life transition coaching. The Art
(04:51):
Journal continued to be such a powerful tool. I started
with client to do it and then ended up doing
a book about it, which is Art for Your Sanity
and online training and now I do workshops because it's
so simple and for the right people right where all
individual can really be a major unlock in a fun way.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So when you talk about transitions, okay, what are you
talking about there?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Yeah, So we all go as humans in this world
through a number of life transitions almost every twelve to
eighteen months. It can be anything from a career transition.
That's one of the easiest for us to get our
head around to moving right, a physical change, a relationship change.
(05:41):
If you think of my story about when my husband
I realized after having my son that that career no
longer fit right, becoming a parent or becoming an empty nester,
those are what I mean by life transitions. It can
also be losing a loved one or becoming a caregiver,
(06:03):
empty nest. Right, There's any number of them. But easiest
way to think about it is you have ones in
your professional life. You have various ones around your relationships,
You have them around where you live, You have them
around your body and the sort of stages of our body.
In many cases, what we can or can't do anymore.
(06:26):
If we've ever had a diagnosis we need to work through,
that's certainly a transition.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Okay, how many times as you've done coaching, executive coaching,
or individual coaching, have you found that a transition has
occurred because they've gone ahead and changed their mindset to
the point that they're actually moving in an entirely different
direction than what they have before, or at least they
want to.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, so in almost every case, in some of it, right,
So it's in there are transitions that can happen to us, right,
an empty nest, or a diagnosis or caregiving, or you
lose a job. Those are ones that in essence happened us.
(07:11):
But in all the ones that we create, right, the
ones that are sort of intrinsic, It is a mindset change.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
You can get into a little bit of chicken out,
but anything that we're really initiating is a recognition that
something isn't fitting now. Sometimes fortunately you recognize an old
way of thinking is no longer working, and as part
of your new way, you start to see these behaviors
in this life. The shell you're wearing, you know, you
(07:42):
sort of it no longer fits. So anyone, any transition
that we really choose, has a mindset component, either at
the very beginning or in order to make it, you
have to switch your mindset.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And you know, I'm fascinated by the art journal ad
because you're saying and it's really art. Now, I'm someone
that cannot draw, as they say, the broadside of a barn.
I've never been artistic in that way. I love photography,
but never been artistic where I can sit and draw
or any of that type of thing. So how do
you start? People? And I guess kind of explain what
(08:20):
is art journaling exactly, and how do you help people
to start that if it's something that they really don't
have a tendency to have ever done.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
So those are the best people for it, I and
that was me. So I will go back to how
it started and I'll explain why people who don't think
they have any artistic ability it's best for And so
my story with our journaling starts because I would have
described myself and still do the way you are because
(08:52):
it's really not about making art that I'm going to
show you. It's about play. And so they said it's
working full time. And one of my coworkers had and
still has a wholeside business as an artist, legitimately talented
individual who sells her work. Her goal is to create
(09:14):
work people commission or buy. And some of us were saying,
what you just said, I can't paint a side of
a barn, and she goes, oh, everyone, you know, come
over on a Saturday. We'll spend a couple hours. I'll
teach you a little you know, teach you some shape.
So I'm one of about five people go over. Right,
it's a little maybe wine and cheese thing. It's a
rainy Saturday, and it's two hours and she's explaining the colors,
(09:37):
and there's some paints and I'm sort of in the corner,
and I make a huge mess. I mean, I'm not
patient enough. My paints run together. I create brown, which
is very easy. I have found out talking to artists
that's just an impatient person, and that fits me. I'm
an invasion in general person. But I have a great
time and I love this brown splot which I've created.
(10:02):
I actually take my little soggy piece of paper home,
I hang it on my refrigerator, let it dry. And
with all the coaching, what I tell everyone right this
is that you got to take your own advice. Is
when you do something that you really love, that sparks
that like little glimmer of joy or excitement, pay attention
(10:25):
because as adults we can go on autopilot with routines
or dismiss things. So I started paying attention. And at
the time, we still had things in our house like
crayons and watercolors, very inexpensive things. So I took out
the crans and just started playing with them. I circles, doodles,
(10:46):
the sort of things I drew when I was five
smiley faces, flowers hearts right, and then fast forward why
I love art journaling as a tool for art for
self discovery and why the people I work with have
loved it. As adults, Many times we don't do a
(11:07):
lot of things for pure play and pure creative outlet.
We may have a hobby, but in that hobby many
cases we're trying to get better for trying to improve,
and there can be a lot of self judgment there.
I advise people, if they're at all curious, to start
(11:28):
with the least expensive art supplies they can find, right,
try a crown, because it's very hard as an adult
to have two crayons in your hand and take yourself
seriously to think that you are about to create a masterpiece.
You come to the page to play is where this
whole thing starts. And from that place of play their
(11:52):
curiosity right, and you build that practice from there. So
it is never about end product. It's all about the process,
and in this case with art journaling, staying with really
inexpensive fun materials that remind you of what you loved
(12:14):
to play with between probably five and eight. Research has
shown that by about age eight or nine, a lot
of people who don't define themselves as artists or creative
have gotten messages that they're not right. They've either looked
at someone else's page and felt discouraged. But this is
about when you did it for the pure fun and joy,
when you weren't judging whatever you loved to doodle.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
So when we talk about art, I mean there's all
sorts of different types of art. As I mentioned, I
love photography, and yeah, I'm probably guilty of what you
were talking about of always wanting to be better at
that that I love doing that, and to me that
was my and that is my expression of art, although
I haven't been able to do it recently. So when
(12:59):
you're talking, are you talking specifically about the crowns and
the paints and all of that type of thing, or
are there other aspects to art that could be involved
in that based on your.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Experience, So based on my experience, you can use any
aspect of art. But the key here is to use
it as a written as you would think of a
written journal. There are a lot of people who read
about the benefits of journaling.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yes, rather it's.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Gratitude journaling or that, but many times either get hung up.
I'll share that I still keep a written journal as
well as an art journal. I have found both to
be very helpful. So when I talk about art journaling,
it's as much the right brain creative place for processing
(13:53):
emotions for a little outlet. It's like ten minutes a
day for tapping into inner wisdom. It's not it can
be anything you want it to be. I want to
be very very clear. The way I've been using it
with people and the book is as a visual means
(14:13):
to help them better understand themselves. Now, you could certainly
say through your photography and the way you see the world,
it also helps you to understand yourself. So people can
art journal if you will, with photography, with images. Part
of it is just being really aware of what's going
on yourself. But I've used it and that the book
(14:36):
is really a tool. It's a creative tool to help
you during one of those life transitions. So something's happening
in your life. You either want to start a new
career or you're moving, or something has changed, and we
can overthink during the change and we can get impatient.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Change has three really big, well studied parts. There's the ending,
the great big law messy middle which we all hate.
We want to go straight through that messy middle and
the new beginning. Art journaling is a really great outlet
to help us with the ending, rather we chose the
ending or not. There's a lot of processing and letting
(15:15):
go of who we were, where we lived, what we did,
whatever that looks like. It then really helps in the
messy middle where we can feel like will never sort
of feel settled again or have that same mastery. So
that's how I like, and I've seen the most power
for people to use it.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So how do you work with someone like me who
like I say, I'm just I'm you know I And
you say you meet a lot of us. You know,
I'm not an artist and to sit down. I can
barely dry anything, even stick figures. So what is art journaling?
Am I just sitting down for five minutes a day
and trying to draw out stick figures? Or what is it?
(15:59):
Because I know that as you talk about it, you're
talking about how it actually helps individuals with self discovery,
with mindfulness, mindset, all of those type of things.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, so I think where we would start, if you're curious, right,
is I would say, okay, think back to when you
were a kid five to eight, and what your art supplies.
If you had art supplies like glue stick, magazine pictures
or collage, crayons, watercolors, which of those three would you choose?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Probably watercolors, but I didn't have those as a kid.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Okay, that's okay. We can still find you some inexpensive
water colors. They're in all the kids stores. So we'll
find you some couple couple dollars and we'll start you there.
If that's a pealing, So the very first exercise, if
you're curious, is get you a blank piece of paper
(16:56):
or in a little book, and I'd say, choose two colors.
Just three minutes, and I want you just to fill
this page with colors three minutes is all, and you're
just putting color on the page, and see what happens.
So you start super simpling. You're just getting some color
on the page. And then we stop, and then the
(17:19):
question of how'd you feel? What was that experience? Now
you may say it was messy, it was wet, or
it was freeing. It was fun to see it, right,
And that's where we start to get into how did
it make you feel? If it wasn't all fun. If
you think of my story about sort of I've created
(17:42):
this brown blob that was actually fun because there was
some surprise, there was play. I didn't have any expectation,
so depending and then you could let it draw on
or dry and ask the questions like how did it
make you feel? Would your body feel like during that?
So that's where some of the initial exploration. So you
don't need to actually draw anything. A lot of people
(18:05):
like Kollagh, we do in the workshops because water paint
water colors take a little bit of time to dry
a lot with just two crayons, so it really can
just be scribbling or making a mess. But you're processing.
You're thinking about why did I choose those two colors?
They're just my favorite they remind me of a happy memory.
(18:27):
Or I felt frustrated and so I wanted that dark purple. Right,
I feel that this is silly, So your your sort
of pain, attention to why you're making those choices. That's
where it becomes. If you will a little bit on
the therapeutic, all right.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
And if I were doing it with crawons, let's say,
and I'm going to I don't really like crowns, and
I don't I would rather use water colors. What does that?
What does that tell you about me? What does that
tell me about me? As far as starting to get
that self discovery going.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
On, Well, I think i'd ask you a question. So
I love water colors too, And that's one of my
go tos is just filling journal sized pages with colors.
I can tell you what I love, and you tell
me if it's why you think you might love water colors.
I have found for me, what looks a certain way
(19:27):
on the page at the moment is totally different when.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
It dries, and there's a bit of surprise to me
and delight, and it reminds me it's an interesting psychological
reminder that what we experience in the moment is really
not any.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
More reality a day later or ten minutes later, right,
because the colors have softened and dried. That's actually why
I'm a pretty big fan of water colors. But what
about you, because you've a few times gone to them.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, you know what I I mean. As I was
visualizing in my mind while we were chatting and you
were saying water colors, I was just visualizing taking a
couple of really great bright colors and drawing kind of
wide open lines coming up and kind of curving and
bringing the next one into it. So I'm just kind
of blending them together. Whereas if I look at crayons,
(20:21):
just a little line with the crown, I can't stand that.
So that's what I was doing, is I was just
looking at more of an expansive type of drawing from
the standpoint of just drawing some lines and so forth,
and curves, not lines, but more curves and wide curves.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah. So I love that. And when you talk about
the lines and curves, because I'm watching you, we've got
the magic of zoom. You're smiling, you seem light and
I can see a picture right above your head with
like a line and a curve. So there's there's it's
an interesting symbol for you. So I might ask one
(21:02):
you lightened up and it was appeeling. You started smiling immediately,
So that's a little bit where I think you dig
into it. It's like, what is it about that? The motion,
the shape? Is it the expansiveness? Is it the blend?
I'm curious and you don't have to answer, but I
would ask that the question is in your life. As
(21:26):
I repeat that back to you. Where does that resonate
how how do you view your life as expansive, as
blended or is that something you're aspiring to versus currently have.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, and I think for me, I mean I don't
mind sharing. I think for me it would be the expansiveness.
I like that word. It would be just the expansiveness
of things. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well, I love that you shared. Thank you. I was
you know, I hate to surprise put you on the spot,
but that's a little bit where you where your person
starts to go. So, say your working through a transition
and a lot of your images and as you describe
them to mean you draw them and what you're wanting
to create are about expansion or blending. You start to say,
(22:11):
but I don't know what that looks many cases, I
don't know what that looks like. I know my current
career or where I'm living feels constricted. Right, So this
is during a lot of transition. So then we start
to play with images, right, this is where people could
collause or what's the next shape or symbol or color.
So that's a little bit how we play with it
(22:33):
is and that's why it's all process, not perfection or
not end creation because we all go different places. Plus,
I thought it was so interesting. And tell me if
you don't want to go there that you didn't like
how restricting a crayon felt to you, because other people
(22:53):
will will love what you could do. Right, there was
something about the I don't know density the line, and
that's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, and and and again you know, and as we're
talking about expansive, I'm a big fan and I talk
a lot about new adventures, that life is an adventure
and we always need to find new adventures in our lives.
And so I think that's where the expansive idea comes in.
Uh And yeah, I mean you haven't thought about the
(23:21):
restriction of the of the crayon, but yeah, I don't
like restrictions.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Yeah, well so and just it's interesting just in those
few moments because one of the thing on the online
training and one on one coach, this is a little
harder to do in a group as you start to
get some values work. So think of your your life
at this point, your your podcast, what you're doing, it
is about expansion possibility. So you see how that visual
(23:48):
aspect is just mirroring a value, I mean, a really
base core foundational piece of who you are right now.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Well, and you know, you bring up something interesting that
comes to my mind. And I've talked about this a
lot with other folks on the podcast, is that you know,
we all have the ability to some degree for that
self development. You know, we can be reading, we can
be doing the meditating, we can go to different workshops
and so forth, and that type of thing. But a
(24:18):
lot of times, ultimately it boils down to having a coach,
having someone there to help you. And you know, for me,
I've done that periodically throughout my life. And as you
talk about this, I'm thinking, Okay, I could read your book,
but is the book going to really be the coach
(24:40):
or is that going to just be the instigation for
me to find you online so that you can help
me and coach me through this because not many people
do it.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah. You know what I have found since the book
has come out is it probably depends on how a
person already views certain creative things. There are some people
can read the book and start immediately. I have a
free pdf on the website. They can download it and
(25:12):
if they're all ready sort of playing in that space,
just run with it. Others, to your point, really benefit
from a workshop or online training or the coaching. So
I think one of the things that's really nice, and
it can be with even a trusted friend, is reflection
(25:33):
and someone mirroring back what you're looking for. So in
a time of deep transition, I always think a coach
is a really helpful thing, right, whoever that is, I've
used them, You've used them, just because we can get
going in our head. What I have seen the art
journal do for people, and things hit differently right for
(25:55):
different people, is over time really help people better understand
their emotions. They may take to an art turtle page
feeling very frustrated or angry. They may realize after scribbling
all over the page or using dark colored water colors,
whatever it is, slashing away, it's a good safe place
(26:17):
to process that emotion at the time, and it holds
it very quickly and helps us get rid of it
or process it then you can go back. So I
think there's some value just in that, and I think
people can read the book or play with it and
get that for themselves. So it really depends on what
(26:37):
a person's working through. Rather they want more coaching or
doing online.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Course well, And it's interesting because you talk about colors
and colors reflecting emotion, and do you find that that's
a reasonably accurate thing as you've worked with people, so
you know all these I'm more in a dark blue
shirt right now, But if I'm putting out black, brown
and so forth versus the yellows and the reds and
(27:03):
the oranges and that, do you find that that really
is reflective of our emotions at that point in time?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
It is? But with the question, so I say, if
a person's at all curious, you need to bring sense
of play and real curiosity, Like if you want to
give this a try to it. Because we all have
different color codes, like even culturally, so red, let's just
chuse red. Red can be love, Red can be you know, holidays.
(27:33):
Red can also be anger, passion. Blue, blue can be tranquill,
blue can be depressed. So you are and I try
and work with people on this and the course your
own best color decoder of what it symbolizes to you.
For some people, browns may feel very earthy and grounded.
For other it's muddy and depressing and without light. Right,
(27:58):
So there's a real individual aspect. And I would say,
if you ever take to water coloring or doing an
art journal, crayons, collaging in a moment, pay attention to
how you're feeling. If you're angry, I know I tend
to choose blacks, grays, purples, sometimes some red for me,
(28:21):
those colors if I'm feeling really angry or frustrated, symbolize it.
It's so interesting because when they dry in many cases
or you look at them afterwards, they can be quite mellow.
They don't have that same power, which is why I
sort of laugh when we use ourselves like we know
(28:42):
and I've drawn little screaming faces what we're feeling at
the moment. You look back even a few hours, but
certainly a few days or a few weeks, and it
does give you a sense of real self compassion, and
it helps us remember that our emotions, we're not our emotions.
Our emotions are just like momentary visitors that we can
(29:03):
process and move on from. So I also really like
it for that, and people can absolutely do that without
a coach. You can do that right now after listening.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, so here's what comes to my mind. Have you,
as you've worked with different clients, have you actually observed
some major changes take place in their lives from a
standpoint of mindfulness and habits and all of those types
of things. I mean, can you see someone go from
A to B and go Wow, that is amazing what
(29:35):
they've been able to accomplish through the art journaling.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yeah, I think I have one of the biggest changes
I have seen, and I've seen it now in a
handful of clients is a much better understanding of strong
(29:59):
emotion when they're coming through them right, irritation. Three of
the five people I'm thinking of or processing some work
frustrations with this, like you know something that triggers them
every time, and it's the same thing. And they would scribble,
use images, do that to process and what each one
(30:21):
recognized it in a different way. It was less about
the other person and more about their fear of themselves
looking bad, their need for perfection, their need for control.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
And it was really interesting because you could, as a
coach say to them, you know, what's this about? You
could ask them that question. It was only through some
of the images that I think some of the if
you will fear the current people, I'm thinking of our
three women, I'll tell you about the other two. You
get a lot of that imposter syndrome. And so what
(30:58):
starts as like frustration is they played with the images,
started to uncover a little bit of am I good enough?
Is this about me? And when it happened more visually
and we worked through it, it was a much bigger release
(31:19):
because then when the whoever it is right, we all
have the perpetrator the challenger out there when it would
occur again, instead of trying all these ways to parry
the person, what would work is some affirmations and recognizing
I'm successful, this is not about my competency my job.
(31:42):
And it really lessened that emotion in that case, so
you asked there. The other it was interesting is like
five different people popped up that they sort of split
and I won't worry with that. The other two examples
are really about the need for a change to come right.
It was I talked earlier I used the analogy of
(32:06):
a shell, but one of the people was using a
shell that was too small, right if you think of
like sea creatures when you've outgrow and you just needed
a new shell. And the images that kept choosing they
were doing a lot of collage and shells are just circular.
It was like wanting to expand you know, if you
think of almost where you started, it's like, I need
(32:28):
to get out of this confine. So those are a
couple of examples where imagery and this weren't These weren't
long sessions. These are not years, not even I mean
within the case of a month or two of doing it,
but they were all working through sort of a repeated
sense of Rather it was frustration or stuckness.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Well, and you know you talk about imposture syndrome, and
I appreciate that. You know, the definition you gave is
the well known one. I've come up with another definition
a couple of times, and that's when you're living someone
else's life. Oh, absolutely, living the life of your family,
your parents, you know what all these expectations are. What
(33:13):
have you found when we look at that, and also
when we look at the fact that in that case,
most of them are not really recognizing or living their
true values. And subconsciously they don't even they don't know
why they're unhappy or frustrated or angry. But yet if
you get to it, you know the values that are
genuine values for them, they're not living them, they're not
(33:36):
really being who they are. Have you found with your
experience with working with people through the art journaling, that
you've been able to help people to discover their true
values and to actually discover that, you know what, this
is not the life that is truly me.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, So thank you for that definition, because you're absolutely right.
I worked with so many people, even back when I
was in a corporation and I was doing it was
so sad. Sometimes I would be doing executive coaching with
an up and coming female in finance. This was a
number of years ago, and she was trying to get
(34:16):
to the next level and we're talking about how to
unbreak and we're talking about values, and what comes out is,
you know, her dad always wanted her go into something safe.
She would have loved to have been an animator for
Disney and the only reason she'd built an amazing career,
but was struggling to get to that next level. And
all answer outcomes with art churling. But what you said
(34:38):
is so common that we end up living the life.
We turn around and we are living a life that
through society, our family, how we grew up, we thought
we were supposed to live and we don't even know
because until later in life that it doesn't fit us,
and so art journaling can be hugely powerful, as can
(35:02):
any form of counseling, meditation. Right when we end up
living a life that is not true to our values,
and so many people end up there and at different points,
I think we all experience aspects of that and it's
part of growth. And so it's okay, yes, using art
journaling coaching to really get clear on what are your
(35:22):
values and then to work through the fear, because it
can be so paralyzing. In the navigating transitions work I
do we talk about this triple threat of like community expectations,
family sort of expectations, and then like what you've sought
and how you break free of that and really challenge
(35:47):
you know, what you want versus how everyone sees you.
So are in the images of breaking out of shells,
of building a foundation, if you will, based on your values, right,
what do you value expression? And part of it is
how does that value show up for you? Like I
could say authenticity and you could say authenticity, but it
(36:12):
could look different to each of us, right, or integrity,
And so it's important to put either words or images
with that. You know, I'll keep going back to your
first answer, about what you would watercolor, right, blended arches,
things that go to exxpansion. That's mean that sounds like
(36:33):
a person who wants to look at a lot of possibilities,
not shut things down, be open minded, right, right, But
that could show up differently for different people.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Well, and you know, what I find is really interesting
is that you know, here's a methodology that you have
developed that's worked so well for you, and that you've
been able to reach people who have somehow connected with
that perspective and that approach and you've been able to
help them. And what I find interesting in why I'm
(37:10):
doing what I'm doing with all the different people that
I talk to is because everybody has a slightly different approach.
And what I find is for you know, I'm starting
to play golf again, and I'm not a good golfer, right,
and so I'm watching YouTube and all these things and
all these different people talking about do it this way,
do it that way, And so I've been trying and
(37:31):
practicing and so forth, and finally I watched the video
that was like, you got to be kidding me. That
is so not how people would tell me to do it.
And I went to the range the other day, and
sure enough, the way I was holding the club and
how I was doing the whole thing, it all of
a sudden started working for me, and I thought to myself,
you know, it's so true that as individuals, we need
(37:53):
to find that methodology, that approach that resonates with us,
connext with us. And I love the fact that different
people have come up with different approaches and been able
to find people who that resonates with so that you
can help them. And that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
Yeah, I love the way you describe that. Gosh, that
golf makes me want to take up golf. So I
could come up with that analogy because it's such a
good example in that sometimes it's just a tweak, a
different way of explaining it, a different process that fits us. Right.
We are each so unique, but we're you know, we're
(38:37):
tied with a common desire to be happy, right, quite honestly.
But the way we hear things, the way we interpret things,
what speaks to us is so deeply individual. And you know,
that's one of things I love to tell people. It's like,
if you're all intrigued, try it. If it's not for you,
you know, no real money loss, no real time time loss.
(39:00):
This is not what I love about art journaling. Is
it low barrier to entry, and so if it's doesn't
spark any joy or curiosity in you don't worry about right.
This is not a shot. This is a for the
people that works for it is freeing and liberating and terrific.
(39:23):
For someone that doesn't speak to it just doesn't speak
to and you can move on with no guilt. It's
not like, oh, I bought all this expensive exercise equipment
and that found out was me. No, it's like you bought,
you know, a couple dollars thing of watercolors or a
few crayons. It's very low barrier, and I think that's
really important because you want to start with a lot
(39:44):
of playing curiosity.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Oh amen to that. Well, if if you were to
share with the audience just a very short message of
what you would want to gain, have them gained from
this podcast today? What would that be?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Okay? Well, I think from today's podcast it was a
great conversation. I love your questions. It really is. If
it has sparked any curiosity, just give it a try,
don't overcomplicate it, just play with it. Start playful, ask
(40:22):
yourself a few questions, think about how it feels, have
some fun ten minutes, and I think allowing yourself that
little bit of play and curiosity is really important. And
I don't think we have we take enough time in
our day to do a little bit of play.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
And that's specifically with the art.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Yeah, very yeah, very specifically with that. But I mean
I would even challenge you if the whole time you're
listening to this, you're thinking, yeah, I want to go
bang on some drums, and you should go bang on
some drums, because that would be a a glimmer. So
not that I want to take people away of it,
but I don't think we should ignore our voices when
(41:06):
we get a little excited about doing something, because to me,
that's the true definition of expansion is to follow that
voice when you get a little bit of that joy glimmer.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, I love it. So, so how do people find you?
And how do they find your book? And reiterate again
the name of your book so the audience knows is.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
It's art for your sanity And you can find any
where you buy books. My website's the easiest way to
find me. And it's just Susan dash Hensley dot com
and on it there's like a starter. There's the free
guide how to get started. You could pdf, you know
it's pdf. You download books there, video online course, that's
(41:46):
all there.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Fantastic.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Well Susan, thanks, oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
It's been a fun conversation.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, I've baoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
And yeah, you do have my curiosity up a little
bit as I start thinking of out watercolor.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Perfect. Give it a try when you have a few minutes,
maybe one day after golf.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well I have to try that. And if I don't
like it, I'll just send it off to my grandkids exactly.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
They would love it.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
All right. Hey, well, folks, thanks for listening. And again, Susan,
thanks so much for being on the show. I really
appreciate it. Thank you, it's been great you betting folks,
hope you join us again soon. This is a doctor
Doug saying no mistay
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
At the end of the day, it's not about what
you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
(00:51):
to do the same.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Susan, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Oh thank you for having me. Doug, I'm thrilled to
be here.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm really pleased. This is going to be an interesting
topic and I'm excited to really learn about what you're
doing and while you're doing it. So forth, I'd love
for you to share with the on Age your journey,
what brought you to this point and go ahead and
take the time to kind of share with your life
and how it all came to this point.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Sure, well, given my age termed sixty the past year,
it's a bit of a winding path. But I professionally,
I started off as a broadcast journalist and did that
for a number of years. And then, as happens, life
(01:39):
takes a veer and our first professions no longer fit us.
And what happened is, you know, children are having a
child and I was anchoring. You know, it's eleven thirty
five at night, and you work weekends and news, and
that just wasn't compatible with you know, my view. It
(02:01):
was one thing to work, but it was another thing
not to be around at nights and holidays and to
be called out urgently. So really switched careers, took up
a sharp turn, moved across the country and started a
career in corporate America, where I did a number of things.
I initially started in training in human resources, then worked
(02:23):
in strategy, did some time overseas as an expad and
a business unit in Asia. Came back sort of really
to work in HR and fell in love with with coaching,
executive coaching, career coaching, business coaching within that and really
(02:45):
really enjoyed that. During that time, I took up a
hobby quite by accident of art journaling. Now that isn't
I have to always pause because that's going to be
I'm going.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
To ask you. Well, I'm going to ask you that
definition later on.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Okay, perfect, I'll just say now, it's not about making art.
You know, to get your head initially wrapping around it,
think of what most people understand what a written journal is,
or you know, keeping a diary. This is using art, crayons, paints,
collage in that same way. So I yeah, so it's
(03:23):
never about the end product. It's a what I call colorful, visual,
right brained way to journal so deeply private. I started
that during the last I don't know five plus years
of my corporate career, and that also hit during the pandemic,
and it really I realized art journaling was such a
(03:47):
great way to tap into my inner wisdom to process emotions.
You know, all that coaching experience I had and all
the tools that I was fortunate enough to gain doing
that professionally and certifications sort of really taught me to
(04:07):
pay attention when you both love something and it's giving
you insights into yourself and really guiding you. So the
Art Journal helped me to recognize it was time to
leave that career. Now, the Art Journal didn't say write
a book about me because that's what happened. Let's be clear,
it's not like the oracle. Life is not that easy,
(04:28):
but it definitely started to show me that it was
time for a change. And that was now three years ago,
and in that half I ended up as I've continued
doing both business coaching meaning executive coaching and career coaching,
but I got more into life transition coaching. The Art
(04:51):
Journal continued to be such a powerful tool. I started
with client to do it and then ended up doing
a book about it, which is Art for Your Sanity
and online training and now I do workshops because it's
so simple and for the right people right where all
individual can really be a major unlock in a fun way.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So when you talk about transitions, okay, what are you
talking about there?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Yeah, So we all go as humans in this world
through a number of life transitions almost every twelve to
eighteen months. It can be anything from a career transition.
That's one of the easiest for us to get our
head around to moving right, a physical change, a relationship change.
(05:41):
If you think of my story about when my husband
I realized after having my son that that career no
longer fit right, becoming a parent or becoming an empty nester,
those are what I mean by life transitions. It can
also be losing a loved one or becoming a caregiver,
(06:03):
empty nest. Right, There's any number of them. But easiest
way to think about it is you have ones in
your professional life. You have various ones around your relationships,
You have them around where you live, You have them
around your body and the sort of stages of our body.
In many cases, what we can or can't do anymore.
(06:26):
If we've ever had a diagnosis we need to work through,
that's certainly a transition.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Okay, how many times as you've done coaching, executive coaching,
or individual coaching, have you found that a transition has
occurred because they've gone ahead and changed their mindset to
the point that they're actually moving in an entirely different
direction than what they have before, or at least they
want to.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, so in almost every case, in some of it, right,
So it's in there are transitions that can happen to us, right,
an empty nest, or a diagnosis or caregiving, or you
lose a job. Those are ones that in essence happened us.
(07:11):
But in all the ones that we create, right, the
ones that are sort of intrinsic, It is a mindset change.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
You can get into a little bit of chicken out,
but anything that we're really initiating is a recognition that
something isn't fitting now. Sometimes fortunately you recognize an old
way of thinking is no longer working, and as part
of your new way, you start to see these behaviors
in this life. The shell you're wearing, you know, you
(07:42):
sort of it no longer fits. So anyone, any transition
that we really choose, has a mindset component, either at
the very beginning or in order to make it, you
have to switch your mindset.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And you know, I'm fascinated by the art journal ad
because you're saying and it's really art. Now, I'm someone
that cannot draw, as they say, the broadside of a barn.
I've never been artistic in that way. I love photography,
but never been artistic where I can sit and draw
or any of that type of thing. So how do
you start? People? And I guess kind of explain what
(08:20):
is art journaling exactly, and how do you help people
to start that if it's something that they really don't
have a tendency to have ever done.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
So those are the best people for it, I and
that was me. So I will go back to how
it started and I'll explain why people who don't think
they have any artistic ability it's best for And so
my story with our journaling starts because I would have
described myself and still do the way you are because
(08:52):
it's really not about making art that I'm going to
show you. It's about play. And so they said it's
working full time. And one of my coworkers had and
still has a wholeside business as an artist, legitimately talented
individual who sells her work. Her goal is to create
(09:14):
work people commission or buy. And some of us were saying,
what you just said, I can't paint a side of
a barn, and she goes, oh, everyone, you know, come
over on a Saturday. We'll spend a couple hours. I'll
teach you a little you know, teach you some shape.
So I'm one of about five people go over. Right,
it's a little maybe wine and cheese thing. It's a
rainy Saturday, and it's two hours and she's explaining the colors,
(09:37):
and there's some paints and I'm sort of in the corner,
and I make a huge mess. I mean, I'm not
patient enough. My paints run together. I create brown, which
is very easy. I have found out talking to artists
that's just an impatient person, and that fits me. I'm
an invasion in general person. But I have a great
time and I love this brown splot which I've created.
(10:02):
I actually take my little soggy piece of paper home,
I hang it on my refrigerator, let it dry. And
with all the coaching, what I tell everyone right this
is that you got to take your own advice. Is
when you do something that you really love, that sparks
that like little glimmer of joy or excitement, pay attention
(10:25):
because as adults we can go on autopilot with routines
or dismiss things. So I started paying attention. And at
the time, we still had things in our house like
crayons and watercolors, very inexpensive things. So I took out
the crans and just started playing with them. I circles, doodles,
(10:46):
the sort of things I drew when I was five
smiley faces, flowers hearts right, and then fast forward why
I love art journaling as a tool for art for
self discovery and why the people I work with have
loved it. As adults, Many times we don't do a
(11:07):
lot of things for pure play and pure creative outlet.
We may have a hobby, but in that hobby many
cases we're trying to get better for trying to improve,
and there can be a lot of self judgment there.
I advise people, if they're at all curious, to start
(11:28):
with the least expensive art supplies they can find, right,
try a crown, because it's very hard as an adult
to have two crayons in your hand and take yourself
seriously to think that you are about to create a masterpiece.
You come to the page to play is where this
whole thing starts. And from that place of play their
(11:52):
curiosity right, and you build that practice from there. So
it is never about end product. It's all about the process,
and in this case with art journaling, staying with really
inexpensive fun materials that remind you of what you loved
(12:14):
to play with between probably five and eight. Research has
shown that by about age eight or nine, a lot
of people who don't define themselves as artists or creative
have gotten messages that they're not right. They've either looked
at someone else's page and felt discouraged. But this is
about when you did it for the pure fun and joy,
when you weren't judging whatever you loved to doodle.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
So when we talk about art, I mean there's all
sorts of different types of art. As I mentioned, I
love photography, and yeah, I'm probably guilty of what you
were talking about of always wanting to be better at
that that I love doing that, and to me that
was my and that is my expression of art, although
I haven't been able to do it recently. So when
(12:59):
you're talking, are you talking specifically about the crowns and
the paints and all of that type of thing, or
are there other aspects to art that could be involved
in that based on your.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Experience, So based on my experience, you can use any
aspect of art. But the key here is to use
it as a written as you would think of a
written journal. There are a lot of people who read
about the benefits of journaling.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yes, rather it's.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Gratitude journaling or that, but many times either get hung up.
I'll share that I still keep a written journal as
well as an art journal. I have found both to
be very helpful. So when I talk about art journaling,
it's as much the right brain creative place for processing
(13:53):
emotions for a little outlet. It's like ten minutes a
day for tapping into inner wisdom. It's not it can
be anything you want it to be. I want to
be very very clear. The way I've been using it
with people and the book is as a visual means
(14:13):
to help them better understand themselves. Now, you could certainly
say through your photography and the way you see the world,
it also helps you to understand yourself. So people can
art journal if you will, with photography, with images. Part
of it is just being really aware of what's going
on yourself. But I've used it and that the book
(14:36):
is really a tool. It's a creative tool to help
you during one of those life transitions. So something's happening
in your life. You either want to start a new
career or you're moving, or something has changed, and we
can overthink during the change and we can get impatient.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Change has three really big, well studied parts. There's the ending,
the great big law messy middle which we all hate.
We want to go straight through that messy middle and
the new beginning. Art journaling is a really great outlet
to help us with the ending, rather we chose the
ending or not. There's a lot of processing and letting
(15:15):
go of who we were, where we lived, what we did,
whatever that looks like. It then really helps in the
messy middle where we can feel like will never sort
of feel settled again or have that same mastery. So
that's how I like, and I've seen the most power
for people to use it.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So how do you work with someone like me who
like I say, I'm just I'm you know I And
you say you meet a lot of us. You know,
I'm not an artist and to sit down. I can
barely dry anything, even stick figures. So what is art journaling?
Am I just sitting down for five minutes a day
and trying to draw out stick figures? Or what is it?
(15:59):
Because I know that as you talk about it, you're
talking about how it actually helps individuals with self discovery,
with mindfulness, mindset, all of those type of things.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, so I think where we would start, if you're curious, right,
is I would say, okay, think back to when you
were a kid five to eight, and what your art supplies.
If you had art supplies like glue stick, magazine pictures
or collage, crayons, watercolors, which of those three would you choose?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Probably watercolors, but I didn't have those as a kid.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Okay, that's okay. We can still find you some inexpensive
water colors. They're in all the kids stores. So we'll
find you some couple couple dollars and we'll start you there.
If that's a pealing, So the very first exercise, if
you're curious, is get you a blank piece of paper
(16:56):
or in a little book, and I'd say, choose two colors.
Just three minutes, and I want you just to fill
this page with colors three minutes is all, and you're
just putting color on the page, and see what happens.
So you start super simpling. You're just getting some color
on the page. And then we stop, and then the
(17:19):
question of how'd you feel? What was that experience? Now
you may say it was messy, it was wet, or
it was freeing. It was fun to see it, right,
And that's where we start to get into how did
it make you feel? If it wasn't all fun. If
you think of my story about sort of I've created
(17:42):
this brown blob that was actually fun because there was
some surprise, there was play. I didn't have any expectation,
so depending and then you could let it draw on
or dry and ask the questions like how did it
make you feel? Would your body feel like during that?
So that's where some of the initial exploration. So you
don't need to actually draw anything. A lot of people
(18:05):
like Kollagh, we do in the workshops because water paint
water colors take a little bit of time to dry
a lot with just two crayons, so it really can
just be scribbling or making a mess. But you're processing.
You're thinking about why did I choose those two colors?
They're just my favorite they remind me of a happy memory.
(18:27):
Or I felt frustrated and so I wanted that dark purple. Right,
I feel that this is silly, So your your sort
of pain, attention to why you're making those choices. That's
where it becomes. If you will a little bit on
the therapeutic, all right.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
And if I were doing it with crawons, let's say,
and I'm going to I don't really like crowns, and
I don't I would rather use water colors. What does that?
What does that tell you about me? What does that
tell me about me? As far as starting to get
that self discovery going.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
On, Well, I think i'd ask you a question. So
I love water colors too, And that's one of my
go tos is just filling journal sized pages with colors.
I can tell you what I love, and you tell
me if it's why you think you might love water colors.
I have found for me, what looks a certain way
(19:27):
on the page at the moment is totally different when.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
It dries, and there's a bit of surprise to me
and delight, and it reminds me it's an interesting psychological
reminder that what we experience in the moment is really
not any.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
More reality a day later or ten minutes later, right,
because the colors have softened and dried. That's actually why
I'm a pretty big fan of water colors. But what
about you, because you've a few times gone to them.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, you know what I I mean. As I was
visualizing in my mind while we were chatting and you
were saying water colors, I was just visualizing taking a
couple of really great bright colors and drawing kind of
wide open lines coming up and kind of curving and
bringing the next one into it. So I'm just kind
of blending them together. Whereas if I look at crayons,
(20:21):
just a little line with the crown, I can't stand that.
So that's what I was doing, is I was just
looking at more of an expansive type of drawing from
the standpoint of just drawing some lines and so forth,
and curves, not lines, but more curves and wide curves.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah. So I love that. And when you talk about
the lines and curves, because I'm watching you, we've got
the magic of zoom. You're smiling, you seem light and
I can see a picture right above your head with
like a line and a curve. So there's there's it's
an interesting symbol for you. So I might ask one
(21:02):
you lightened up and it was appeeling. You started smiling immediately,
So that's a little bit where I think you dig
into it. It's like, what is it about that? The motion,
the shape? Is it the expansiveness? Is it the blend?
I'm curious and you don't have to answer, but I
would ask that the question is in your life. As
(21:26):
I repeat that back to you. Where does that resonate
how how do you view your life as expansive, as
blended or is that something you're aspiring to versus currently have.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, and I think for me, I mean I don't
mind sharing. I think for me it would be the expansiveness.
I like that word. It would be just the expansiveness
of things. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well, I love that you shared. Thank you. I was
you know, I hate to surprise put you on the spot,
but that's a little bit where you where your person
starts to go. So, say your working through a transition
and a lot of your images and as you describe
them to mean you draw them and what you're wanting
to create are about expansion or blending. You start to say,
(22:11):
but I don't know what that looks many cases, I
don't know what that looks like. I know my current
career or where I'm living feels constricted. Right, So this
is during a lot of transition. So then we start
to play with images, right, this is where people could
collause or what's the next shape or symbol or color.
So that's a little bit how we play with it
(22:33):
is and that's why it's all process, not perfection or
not end creation because we all go different places. Plus,
I thought it was so interesting. And tell me if
you don't want to go there that you didn't like
how restricting a crayon felt to you, because other people
(22:53):
will will love what you could do. Right, there was
something about the I don't know density the line, and
that's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, and and and again you know, and as we're
talking about expansive, I'm a big fan and I talk
a lot about new adventures, that life is an adventure
and we always need to find new adventures in our lives.
And so I think that's where the expansive idea comes in.
Uh And yeah, I mean you haven't thought about the
(23:21):
restriction of the of the crayon, but yeah, I don't
like restrictions.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Yeah, well so and just it's interesting just in those
few moments because one of the thing on the online
training and one on one coach, this is a little
harder to do in a group as you start to
get some values work. So think of your your life
at this point, your your podcast, what you're doing, it
is about expansion possibility. So you see how that visual
(23:48):
aspect is just mirroring a value, I mean, a really
base core foundational piece of who you are right now.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Well, and you know, you bring up something interesting that
comes to my mind. And I've talked about this a
lot with other folks on the podcast, is that you know,
we all have the ability to some degree for that
self development. You know, we can be reading, we can
be doing the meditating, we can go to different workshops
and so forth, and that type of thing. But a
(24:18):
lot of times, ultimately it boils down to having a coach,
having someone there to help you. And you know, for me,
I've done that periodically throughout my life. And as you
talk about this, I'm thinking, Okay, I could read your book,
but is the book going to really be the coach
(24:40):
or is that going to just be the instigation for
me to find you online so that you can help
me and coach me through this because not many people
do it.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah. You know what I have found since the book
has come out is it probably depends on how a
person already views certain creative things. There are some people
can read the book and start immediately. I have a
free pdf on the website. They can download it and
(25:12):
if they're all ready sort of playing in that space,
just run with it. Others, to your point, really benefit
from a workshop or online training or the coaching. So
I think one of the things that's really nice, and
it can be with even a trusted friend, is reflection
(25:33):
and someone mirroring back what you're looking for. So in
a time of deep transition, I always think a coach
is a really helpful thing, right, whoever that is, I've
used them, You've used them, just because we can get
going in our head. What I have seen the art
journal do for people, and things hit differently right for
(25:55):
different people, is over time really help people better understand
their emotions. They may take to an art turtle page
feeling very frustrated or angry. They may realize after scribbling
all over the page or using dark colored water colors,
whatever it is, slashing away, it's a good safe place
(26:17):
to process that emotion at the time, and it holds
it very quickly and helps us get rid of it
or process it then you can go back. So I
think there's some value just in that, and I think
people can read the book or play with it and
get that for themselves. So it really depends on what
(26:37):
a person's working through. Rather they want more coaching or
doing online.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Course well, And it's interesting because you talk about colors
and colors reflecting emotion, and do you find that that's
a reasonably accurate thing as you've worked with people, so
you know all these I'm more in a dark blue
shirt right now, But if I'm putting out black, brown
and so forth versus the yellows and the reds and
(27:03):
the oranges and that, do you find that that really
is reflective of our emotions at that point in time?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
It is? But with the question, so I say, if
a person's at all curious, you need to bring sense
of play and real curiosity, Like if you want to
give this a try to it. Because we all have
different color codes, like even culturally, so red, let's just
chuse red. Red can be love, Red can be you know, holidays.
(27:33):
Red can also be anger, passion. Blue, blue can be tranquill,
blue can be depressed. So you are and I try
and work with people on this and the course your
own best color decoder of what it symbolizes to you.
For some people, browns may feel very earthy and grounded.
For other it's muddy and depressing and without light. Right,
(27:58):
So there's a real individual aspect. And I would say,
if you ever take to water coloring or doing an
art journal, crayons, collaging in a moment, pay attention to
how you're feeling. If you're angry, I know I tend
to choose blacks, grays, purples, sometimes some red for me,
(28:21):
those colors if I'm feeling really angry or frustrated, symbolize it.
It's so interesting because when they dry in many cases
or you look at them afterwards, they can be quite mellow.
They don't have that same power, which is why I
sort of laugh when we use ourselves like we know
(28:42):
and I've drawn little screaming faces what we're feeling at
the moment. You look back even a few hours, but
certainly a few days or a few weeks, and it
does give you a sense of real self compassion, and
it helps us remember that our emotions, we're not our emotions.
Our emotions are just like momentary visitors that we can
(29:03):
process and move on from. So I also really like
it for that, and people can absolutely do that without
a coach. You can do that right now after listening.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, so here's what comes to my mind. Have you,
as you've worked with different clients, have you actually observed
some major changes take place in their lives from a
standpoint of mindfulness and habits and all of those types
of things. I mean, can you see someone go from
A to B and go Wow, that is amazing what
(29:35):
they've been able to accomplish through the art journaling.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yeah, I think I have one of the biggest changes
I have seen, and I've seen it now in a
handful of clients is a much better understanding of strong
(29:59):
emotion when they're coming through them right, irritation. Three of
the five people I'm thinking of or processing some work
frustrations with this, like you know something that triggers them
every time, and it's the same thing. And they would scribble,
use images, do that to process and what each one
(30:21):
recognized it in a different way. It was less about
the other person and more about their fear of themselves
looking bad, their need for perfection, their need for control.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
And it was really interesting because you could, as a
coach say to them, you know, what's this about? You
could ask them that question. It was only through some
of the images that I think some of the if
you will fear the current people, I'm thinking of our
three women, I'll tell you about the other two. You
get a lot of that imposter syndrome. And so what
(30:58):
starts as like frustration is they played with the images,
started to uncover a little bit of am I good enough?
Is this about me? And when it happened more visually
and we worked through it, it was a much bigger release
(31:19):
because then when the whoever it is right, we all
have the perpetrator the challenger out there when it would
occur again, instead of trying all these ways to parry
the person, what would work is some affirmations and recognizing
I'm successful, this is not about my competency my job.
(31:42):
And it really lessened that emotion in that case, so
you asked there. The other it was interesting is like
five different people popped up that they sort of split
and I won't worry with that. The other two examples
are really about the need for a change to come right.
It was I talked earlier I used the analogy of
(32:06):
a shell, but one of the people was using a
shell that was too small, right if you think of
like sea creatures when you've outgrow and you just needed
a new shell. And the images that kept choosing they
were doing a lot of collage and shells are just circular.
It was like wanting to expand you know, if you
think of almost where you started, it's like, I need
(32:28):
to get out of this confine. So those are a
couple of examples where imagery and this weren't These weren't
long sessions. These are not years, not even I mean
within the case of a month or two of doing it,
but they were all working through sort of a repeated
sense of Rather it was frustration or stuckness.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Well, and you know you talk about imposture syndrome, and
I appreciate that. You know, the definition you gave is
the well known one. I've come up with another definition
a couple of times, and that's when you're living someone
else's life. Oh, absolutely, living the life of your family,
your parents, you know what all these expectations are. What
(33:13):
have you found when we look at that, and also
when we look at the fact that in that case,
most of them are not really recognizing or living their
true values. And subconsciously they don't even they don't know
why they're unhappy or frustrated or angry. But yet if
you get to it, you know the values that are
genuine values for them, they're not living them, they're not
(33:36):
really being who they are. Have you found with your
experience with working with people through the art journaling, that
you've been able to help people to discover their true
values and to actually discover that, you know what, this
is not the life that is truly me.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, So thank you for that definition, because you're absolutely right.
I worked with so many people, even back when I
was in a corporation and I was doing it was
so sad. Sometimes I would be doing executive coaching with
an up and coming female in finance. This was a
number of years ago, and she was trying to get
(34:16):
to the next level and we're talking about how to
unbreak and we're talking about values, and what comes out is,
you know, her dad always wanted her go into something safe.
She would have loved to have been an animator for
Disney and the only reason she'd built an amazing career,
but was struggling to get to that next level. And
all answer outcomes with art churling. But what you said
(34:38):
is so common that we end up living the life.
We turn around and we are living a life that
through society, our family, how we grew up, we thought
we were supposed to live and we don't even know
because until later in life that it doesn't fit us,
and so art journaling can be hugely powerful, as can
(35:02):
any form of counseling, meditation. Right when we end up
living a life that is not true to our values,
and so many people end up there and at different points,
I think we all experience aspects of that and it's
part of growth. And so it's okay, yes, using art
journaling coaching to really get clear on what are your
(35:22):
values and then to work through the fear, because it
can be so paralyzing. In the navigating transitions work I
do we talk about this triple threat of like community expectations,
family sort of expectations, and then like what you've sought
and how you break free of that and really challenge
(35:47):
you know, what you want versus how everyone sees you.
So are in the images of breaking out of shells,
of building a foundation, if you will, based on your values, right,
what do you value expression? And part of it is
how does that value show up for you? Like I
could say authenticity and you could say authenticity, but it
(36:12):
could look different to each of us, right, or integrity,
And so it's important to put either words or images
with that. You know, I'll keep going back to your
first answer, about what you would watercolor, right, blended arches,
things that go to exxpansion. That's mean that sounds like
(36:33):
a person who wants to look at a lot of possibilities,
not shut things down, be open minded, right, right, But
that could show up differently for different people.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Well, and you know, what I find is really interesting
is that you know, here's a methodology that you have
developed that's worked so well for you, and that you've
been able to reach people who have somehow connected with
that perspective and that approach and you've been able to
help them. And what I find interesting in why I'm
(37:10):
doing what I'm doing with all the different people that
I talk to is because everybody has a slightly different approach.
And what I find is for you know, I'm starting
to play golf again, and I'm not a good golfer, right,
and so I'm watching YouTube and all these things and
all these different people talking about do it this way,
do it that way, And so I've been trying and
(37:31):
practicing and so forth, and finally I watched the video
that was like, you got to be kidding me. That
is so not how people would tell me to do it.
And I went to the range the other day, and
sure enough, the way I was holding the club and
how I was doing the whole thing, it all of
a sudden started working for me, and I thought to myself,
you know, it's so true that as individuals, we need
(37:53):
to find that methodology, that approach that resonates with us,
connext with us. And I love the fact that different
people have come up with different approaches and been able
to find people who that resonates with so that you
can help them. And that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
Yeah, I love the way you describe that. Gosh, that
golf makes me want to take up golf. So I
could come up with that analogy because it's such a
good example in that sometimes it's just a tweak, a
different way of explaining it, a different process that fits us. Right.
We are each so unique, but we're you know, we're
(38:37):
tied with a common desire to be happy, right, quite honestly.
But the way we hear things, the way we interpret things,
what speaks to us is so deeply individual. And you know,
that's one of things I love to tell people. It's like,
if you're all intrigued, try it. If it's not for you,
you know, no real money loss, no real time time loss.
(39:00):
This is not what I love about art journaling. Is
it low barrier to entry, and so if it's doesn't
spark any joy or curiosity in you don't worry about right.
This is not a shot. This is a for the
people that works for it is freeing and liberating and terrific.
(39:23):
For someone that doesn't speak to it just doesn't speak
to and you can move on with no guilt. It's
not like, oh, I bought all this expensive exercise equipment
and that found out was me. No, it's like you bought,
you know, a couple dollars thing of watercolors or a
few crayons. It's very low barrier, and I think that's
really important because you want to start with a lot
(39:44):
of playing curiosity.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Oh amen to that. Well, if if you were to
share with the audience just a very short message of
what you would want to gain, have them gained from
this podcast today? What would that be?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Okay? Well, I think from today's podcast it was a
great conversation. I love your questions. It really is. If
it has sparked any curiosity, just give it a try,
don't overcomplicate it, just play with it. Start playful, ask
(40:22):
yourself a few questions, think about how it feels, have
some fun ten minutes, and I think allowing yourself that
little bit of play and curiosity is really important. And
I don't think we have we take enough time in
our day to do a little bit of play.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
And that's specifically with the art.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Yeah, very yeah, very specifically with that. But I mean
I would even challenge you if the whole time you're
listening to this, you're thinking, yeah, I want to go
bang on some drums, and you should go bang on
some drums, because that would be a a glimmer. So
not that I want to take people away of it,
but I don't think we should ignore our voices when
(41:06):
we get a little excited about doing something, because to me,
that's the true definition of expansion is to follow that
voice when you get a little bit of that joy glimmer.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, I love it. So, so how do people find you?
And how do they find your book? And reiterate again
the name of your book so the audience knows is.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
It's art for your sanity And you can find any
where you buy books. My website's the easiest way to
find me. And it's just Susan dash Hensley dot com
and on it there's like a starter. There's the free
guide how to get started. You could pdf, you know
it's pdf. You download books there, video online course, that's
(41:46):
all there.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Fantastic.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Well Susan, thanks, oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
It's been a fun conversation.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, I've baoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
And yeah, you do have my curiosity up a little
bit as I start thinking of out watercolor.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Perfect. Give it a try when you have a few minutes,
maybe one day after golf.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well I have to try that. And if I don't
like it, I'll just send it off to my grandkids exactly.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
They would love it.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
All right. Hey, well, folks, thanks for listening. And again, Susan,
thanks so much for being on the show. I really
appreciate it. Thank you, it's been great you betting folks,
hope you join us again soon. This is a doctor
Doug saying no mistay
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