October 29, 2025 • 47 mins
Dr. Sara Ruebelt is a Multicultural Family Therapist who has worked with immigrants & refugees since 2002. She later focused on cross-cultural relationships & multicultural family therapy & completed her Ph.D in 2009 on success in intermarriages & raising bi-cultural children. Her research was published in the Journal of Current Psychology. She is an active community member, serving as a volunteer for The Davis Schools Foundation & a strong advocate for mental health, building community & unity.
It's Your Voice is broadcast live Wednesdays at 8PM ET Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). It's Your Voice is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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It's Your Voice is broadcast live Wednesdays at 8PM ET Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). It's Your Voice is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
It's Your Voice Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:20):
for choosing W four c Y Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Lot chic Let's Greek not Chick, Let's Speak show.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
In loic Let's Breech, lot Let's Breach.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
O, the.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Lot That's Breech and lot Let.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Lot, Hello, and welcome to It's Your Voice, the show
that hosts enriching conversations in diversity. My name is Kamika
Edwards Avobero and I am standing in as guest host
for Bahia Yachson today. You can find Bahia's website at
Know what you Want Coaching dot WordPress for descriptions of
(01:15):
the diversity education courses and coaching opportunities. She offers, I'm
excited to be a guest host again. And so to
remind you of who I am. My name is Kamika.
My personal life, to call me mother, to call me sister,
and one calls me WiFi. In my professional life, I
have worked in the public education school system since nineteen
(01:36):
ninety nine, first as a teacher, and I've been a
school counselor since twenty sixteen. The title of our show
today is Building Community Unity, and our guest is doctor
Sarah Rublt. Doctor Sarah Rubelt is a multicultural family therapist.
She has worked with immigrants and refugees since obtaining her
master's degree in counseling in two thousand and two. She
(01:59):
later focused on cross cultural relationships and multicultural family therapy
in her PhD program, completed in two thousand and nine,
focusing on success in intermarriage and raising bicultural children. Her
research has been published in Journal of Current Psychology. She
is a very active member in her community. She serves
(02:22):
as a volunteer board member for the Davis Schools Foundation
and as a strong advocate for mental health and building
community and unity. Welcome Sarah, thank you for being here.
Please tell us about your efforts.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, of course, of course, and I like to add
that I'm also a counselor at university and work closely
with Manasa at least her North African South Asian students,
as well as international students and scholars. Although I'm here
as a community member and not a representative, I wanted
to just include that. But yes, I have been very
(02:59):
much involved and passionately focused on the idea of community.
I think is extremely important to break the barriers to
create bridges. Our world, as you may have recognized, is
more polarized than ever, and these walls, these separations, cause
(03:19):
a great deal of harm and disconnect for the psychological
well being of others in our community, and it's important
to take that seriously and to do the opposite to
build connection.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, look got you started in the work, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I think you know being an immigrant myself, I grew
up in the Midwest, my parents, I grew up in
a bicultural household myself, and just recognizing the importance of
bridging and integrating my two backgrounds and creating a deeper
(03:55):
level of understanding to people who potentially wanted to put
me in a category that I don't belong And you
see this, it's no, this is not about villainizing any
single person or any entity. I think we all have
a lot to learn from each other. And the stance
of curiosity became sort of that hallmark of what I
(04:18):
recognize is missing is to to show curiosity and to
allow people to be curious so that they can learn.
And you know, from from the moment I knew I
wanted to pursue psychology, sociology, anthropology. I've double majored in
psychology and sociology and minored in anthropology because I cared
about all of these questions that context matters, narrative matters,
(04:42):
and yeah, so the curiosity began there. And see from
the line of work that I've done that it really.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Is okay, you're back, Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes, sorry, I can go on and on, but I
rather you ask the questions and I can be more
specific in answering that.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Lived experiences your background. You know, we bring all of
ourselves into our work, and so when you were talking
about your your background, I was thinking about how people
perceive me. And there's so many stereotypes, you know, that
that break down community and build and put up more walls,
(05:23):
and so I'm pretty sure that people perceive me in
a way that's not how I identify myself, So what
what is? What?
Speaker 4 (05:31):
How are you the or that.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
That's not connected to your identity?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I have so many, you know, I think it's not
only my own personal stories since I was young, growing
up and being misunderstood or you know, assumptions that were
made about me that were inaccurate, but also I think
I have a self place in my heart for my clients,
my students, my you know, families that I work with,
(05:58):
who also bring that into focus into a whare the
other the overgeneralizations, the you know, assumption makings, the jump
into conclusions, I mean as we know now. And this
is what I love about psychology is that it holds
so much, so many answers around this topic, you know,
I mean cognitive HRO therapy in particular. I always say
(06:20):
it has to do with I think, therefore I feel.
And there are ten thoughts that are identified as invalid,
and among those thoughts are all or nothing, thinking, over generalizing, jumping,
digging conclusions. So I think these assumptions are made, particularly
oftentimes out of our limited knowledge and information. We make
(06:41):
associations based on something we've seen or heard, and to
break that cycle is to come from a not knowing stance.
What does that mean? That means throw away all the
assumptions we hold that we think is solute and show
more curiosity. Yeah, show more curious city.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Right, And so you're asking people, you're asking your clients,
you're asking those in your circle to not be afraid
to ask questions. Is that how you recommend approaching with curiosity?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And if that is not the approach that is given
to a person who's already being overgeneralized or you know,
other to activate that curiosity, heay like, would you like
to know about me? Would you like me to share
my narrative, my story? Because I'm more than happy to
(07:33):
do so.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yes, how do you do that? In so you described
how you do that professionally. What's what does your community
work look like, your activism and advocacy.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
It's a very good question. I think just being a
parent in our community, recognizing the immense need for support
in our schools with our education curriculum program is that
you know need funding all the way to teacher support
(08:04):
and above all, mental health support access the mental health
for students. Because a little bit goes a long way
and someone is going through a tough time or through vulnerability,
you know having the support there makes it makes a difference. Yes,
and yeah I can. I can go on and on
about that, but I think it's it's extremely important to
(08:25):
address challenges. I think I've always been an observer of needs.
Perhaps it's that caring personality that you know is required
to be a counselor, to hold empathy, to hold compassion,
to put yourself in other people's shoes. It is something
that I think I learned from my mother. She was
(08:47):
a nurse, and from early on I remember that teaching
became very natural to me, the practice of considering what
someone else feels, not just my own.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yes, yes, I can, I shout out Davis Schools Foundation.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
You do work with them, right, do you still do?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, zoo, They're amazing organization. Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
At the part of the pandemic, as a school counselor,
we saw the needs skyrocket and so David Schools Foundation
helped us as school counselors here in the city of
Davis support our students with their mental health needs. And
so your philanthropic, philanthropic work with David Schools Foundation, I
(09:28):
have personally witnessed and my students have benefited from you know,
prioritizing that student mental health matters. You know, mental health
matters above well, I don't know above or equal to academics,
but in its college town sometimes it gets overlooked for
you know, the pursuit of academia. And we know that
(09:51):
we do better when we're stable in our physical and
mental health. It's harder to get things done if we're
not feeling well inside our hearts and outside in our bodies.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So thank you for thank you for that support.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Thank you very much. Absolutely, you said it so beautifully
about all that encompass this mission of David School's foundation.
It is indeed important to prioritize emotional mental health in
our community. You know, Academics is what this is. Even
as a college community counselor, I give the same sort
(10:24):
of message, which is, yes, academics is important, but in
order to be successful in your academic goals, you want
to be grounded and you want to have emotional health
and emotional wellness as a priority. So it's it's absolutely
the foundation for living a healthy life, balanced life. To
(10:47):
take that seriously.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And the stronger the individual, the stronger the family, the
stronger the community.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
What kind of activities bring, help bring people together, or
help close divisions that you're that you've been a part of,
or that you're recommending that you know reinforces and emphasizes unity.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So thank you for asking that question. You know, I
think anytime people come together and share and are welcoming
and create spaces for all to feel welcomed, included, accepted.
Back to that curiosity stance, right like whether I attend
(11:28):
an event that is held in the community or the
university of it just warms my counselor heart to see
how much community can make a difference. I you know,
there is an incredible community that cares about building these bridges.
(11:53):
I wanted to a shout out for some of these
organizations that create that. For example, I House the International
House of Davis. I'm really fond of them. I see
that through the years of living here, they've organized events
that brought people together. I hope they continue doing that,
and I hope that there is more and more funding
towards that because it is important to build bridges. It
(12:15):
is important to you know, feed the thirst of curiosity
of people who want to know, who want to learn,
who want to plunge in to an experience. One of
my professors in grad school taught us, you know, it
gave us a project. It was called a cultural plunge project,
and we were supposed to pick an experience we've never had,
(12:40):
whether that is walking into a synagogue, to a mosque,
to a church, to a you know, gay bar, I
don't know, just anything that would would be a complete
unknown and we might have a set of assumptions connected
to it. She empowered us to not be afraid and
to just be carious, go with a list of questions
(13:01):
and observe. And years later, when I became a professor
and taught that exact course Multicultural Family Therapy, you know,
I adapted the same exact assignment for my students. It's
about getting to know an experience and figure out and
make your own decision.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Taking that pledge I think requires bravery and courage.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Do you agree one hundred percent? Absolutely? And I think
if you have a choice between living and fear or learning,
I mean I promote growth mindset. This is something as
a mom and as a counselor, I promote and teach
all the time. And I'm learning for as long as
I live until my dying breath. You know I'm going
to be learning. I mean that will never stop. If
(13:47):
you are open to learn, you are going to be curious.
And you know at some point you want to put
fear aside and say, what is the harm of knowledge? Education?
If it aligns with my values, it is something that
I might you know, benefit from. But if it is
something that is absolutely all that I feared it to be,
(14:07):
what's the worst that could happen? You just choose not
to adapt or learn or but but knowledge is power.
Knowledge is you know, is absolutely important for our growth
and development.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
That's one of my favorite phrases, knowledge is power. I
love it too.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I was learning. I'm also a lifelong learner. I enjoy learning.
I enjoy uh building new neural pathways and neuroplasticity.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
You were never too old.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
To learn something new, and so yes, you can teach
an old dog new tricks and so encouraging people to
get out of their silos. And I'm a firm believer
in going to different places, new spaces, and talking to
people and getting to know their story. A training that
I did on restorative practices, restorative practices where they're repairing harm,
(15:00):
bringing people together that have harmed each other and getting
them to see each other's perspectives. At that seminar, at
that workshop, they were saying, it's really hard to hurt.
People want to know their story, yes, and so part
of building bridges is storytelling and listening and empathizing and
just realizing that the world is not like how you
see it. And so a big fan of storytelling and
(15:22):
big fan of the plunge into new spaces.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that,
and thank you for doing the things you do to
make a difference in that realm.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
It's important, I mean, but it's hard, right because you
started we started the podcast today about the current environment, right,
the geo political, spatial environmental It's not easy, and so
because of divisions, because of all that separates us.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You're so glad bringing it up. There's so many things
that separate us. But I'm a firm believer that the
humanity within us has a lot more commonalities that we
need to realize and we need to build the foundation
on that. And one of the things I'm recognizing is
warming my heart to see in our community is you know,
(16:11):
little kind of groups and circles that are created to
to come together in solidarity for whatever cause, whatever belief, whatever,
that is inspirational to them and and it's it's in
the making of what, you know, what is needed to
cope with the fears and the uncertainties and the anxieties
(16:35):
of our times today. And my hope is that we
create more of that. I think it's it's an absolute
necessity not only for our survival, but are back to again,
my counselor had is coming on the coping with the
challenges and the adversities of life always brings people together,
(16:59):
brings people together. That's why as counselors we have things
like support groups, you know, therapy groups. Community is healing,
connection is healing, Belonging is healing, and so tapping into
that is going to be our saving grace because no
one can make it alone in this world. Now, that's
(17:19):
a statement that Salvador Minuccin mentioned in his Lifetime Achievement Award.
I happened to be there at the net Networker Symposium
in Washington, d C. A few years ago when he
was getting his Lifetime Achievement Award. One of the grandfathers
of family therapy for those who don't know, but yeah,
here he was Argentinian count you know, psychiatrists later developing
(17:40):
family therapy, one of the family therapy foundations in structural
family therapy. And he was somebody I taught and studied in,
you know, obtaining my doctoral degree. And here I was
in this lifetime achievement award celebration and I go and
introduce myself. I got the microphone and I said, I
am a multicultural family therapist, and I want to know
(18:01):
what is your message to how that's made possible to
build bridges and create There's so much disconnect and there's
so much sometimes it feels impossible. And he's with his
argent beautiful Argentinian accident. He said, well, Sarah, I tell
you one thing. You can't do it alone. And it
just to this day is like this huge message, significant
(18:23):
message in my mind, you know, bringing importance, attention and
focus to unity. Back to the topic of our podcast.
No one can do it alone. We need each other.
We are stronger together. And our pain, our suffering, belongs
to the human family. It is not one individual's pain.
(18:46):
It is not unique, it is not isolated. It's relatable
and as long as we connect with that relatability. Back
to the power of empathy and compassion. We can stand
strong and unity will rise and make it happen, make
it possible for for people to to overcome pain.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
And thank you for sharing that direct quote and want
to honor to be there in person, to to hear
from someone who's doing the work, who lives you know,
who lives the work. And so is that one of
the ways that you stay motivated, because, like I said,
the divisions are everywhere, it's easy to get discouraged.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
How do you stay motivated?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Absolutely? I I do stay motivated with inspirational figures. You know,
there's my favorite book that I read to my kids
every night, or at this point my daughter she's younger,
is in basically bed Time Stories for Rebel Girls, and
it's it's it's designed to give little synopsies one page
(19:50):
of biographies of significant people face adversities, who face hardship
but manage to overcome. And sometimes there's significant people known
in the world, and sometimes it's people nobody's ever heard of,
but their story is magnificent and inspirational. So we learn
from each other, We learn from stories. We look up
and your question of what inspires me, it's stories stories
(20:14):
of people who have come before me in history and
have been through things that I am going through as
an individual today. And knowing that I am not the
first and probably won't be ever the last who's going
through that already connects me to the belonging of that big,
larger family of humanity. And I think it's inspiring to
(20:37):
learn from those who face unimaginable challenges but strength within them.
The power of the human strength is what we all possess,
and we can learn from each other that.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
They can do it. I can do it.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Absolutely, absolutely, And there are remarkable people among us know,
in our own communities, in our circle. I'm a huge
fan of Sandy Homan. I just love this woman. She's
done tremendous work here in our community, and her book
we all have a heritage, really resonated, and to this
day sometimes when I give talks or presentations, I use
(21:18):
that book to build grounding that we are all the same.
We are one, you know, each and every one of
us is unique in our own way, but we belong
to the family of humanity. Yeah, it's really important, And
of course Bahia is another person having such a podcast
(21:39):
to bring the voices of experiences and bring narratives into
life so people can hear it and get exposed to
it and be welcome to also share.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yeah, just making space for making space you see and
hear someone who doesn't look like you, doesn't sound like you,
doesn't live like you.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
It grows us, It grows our depth.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Absolutely absolutely, And I just want to do a shout
out to all the counselors in our world today, you know,
I mean all all caregivers, teachers included, what I feel like, particularly,
I think counselors and mental health workers just don't often
get enough kudos for the amount of heart they provide
(22:29):
in this line of work and the amount of exposure
to to pain and suffering and vicarious trauma, and you know,
it's just it's a lot, and it's yeah, I just
wanted I just had to take a moment and to
say thank you for the counselors who are making the
world a better place, to giving space for exactly this
(22:50):
voices to be heard, to be the you know, to
be the advocates, to be the advocate of the people
who don't have a voice. All of that is so
critical and so important. Yeh.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, So that's a good plug for you reduce the
stigma for therapy. Go get therapy, do your work, because
where else I will.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Tell you, I tell you I do a lot of
outreach about you.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
The therapy is all about you and your needs and
your goals.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Where else can you get.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
That I do a lot of outreach on that exact topic.
And me go, it has to do with a couple
of things that's extremely important too, And I think individuals
resonate with you matter. I cite a poetry poem of Roomy.
It's one of my favorite poets in the world, and
he says in this poem, you are not a drop
(23:40):
in the ocean. You're an entire ocean in a drop.
Every one of us matter, and our struggles, our challenges,
our pain, our difficulties doesn't define us, and it doesn't
need a label. It doesn't need a blame. It just
is exists, and therefore evenings its own space for opportunities
(24:01):
of healing. Because counseling is collaboration with another human being
to process your experience, so many things are not discussed,
mostly because of shame. Most of the times people assume
that you know by by acknowledging that this problem is there,
or that they need support, not even problem that they
need support, that they need help, but somehow it's a
(24:24):
sign of weakness, it's a sign that they're not capable,
or that it's going to be used against them.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yep, where they're crazy or they're weird, or there something's
wrong with them.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Somehow it's going to affect their future in a negative
way and couldn't be the farthest thing from the truth. Yes,
back to that original message, no one can do it alone.
We're hardwired to need connection, to need support, and you
know all the things that makes us long for that
(24:57):
is already innate in us. One t to receive kindness
but also to be kind to others. It's like how
you fail your bucket right, you give and you receive
all the time in this that's what makes the world
go around in terms of being there for others and
then being there for you. Yes, so it is important
to take it seriously when we need more and we
(25:20):
need support.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And I'm a big fan of self care. Self care
has become overly used, you know, but and it's important
to prioritize what you need. And so especially if we're
in the work as counselors, to not get burnt out
on that secondary or vicarious trauma and holding space for
(25:41):
people and their experiences and their stories. It's very important
to take time for yourself and to work your self
care routine. Whatever that looks like. What does your self
care look like? How do you prevent burnout? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, I absolutely live, breathe right poetry. I can't get
enough of that. I love poetry, So that's something I
do for myself to get grounded. I get inspired by
homes that is meaningful and grounding and speaks to the
human experience. I love nature. Nature is absolutely a healing source,
(26:18):
healing power. Anytime I see trees dancing in the wind,
if I spot a hummingbird, oh that definitely sparks some
serious soothing mechanism in me. When I see animals being
loving like you know, there's so much that I learned
from my own puppy, my own dog. She's not a
puppy anymore, but I still call her my puppy. But
(26:38):
just learning from animals and spending time looking at how
unconditionally they love you, know, and how they don't care
about you being perfect. There's that gift of imperfection that
I highly recommend the book the gift of imperfection. But
it's just a lot of connection with inspirational people, community
(27:05):
in the community, and loved ones and people who really
are they have the gift of putting you at ease.
You know that to me is self care.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That calm, calming, comforting, energy, soothing. So you have your
support people. Who's who's in your support part of your
support system.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I love walking in nature and I love movement. I
think dancing is really another form. Dancing in music is
also part of my routine of self care.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
You mentioned leaning on people, and so you can't do
it alone, and so who are the people that you
lean on to support you when you're feeling depleted.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
No, I have good friends who are there for me,
whether we go for a walk or just have an
exchange of thought or expression. I have also people that
I get inspired by. I know, I know that there
is a lot of you know, talk about social media
and things, but sometimes you know, we feed off of
(28:08):
each other's energy. And if you are inspired by someone
who produces positive energy, whether that is online, whether that
is in person, it doesn't matter if they produce positive energy.
I mean it's contagious. Yes, you're going to feel it right,
and so those things definitely something that I lean on
(28:29):
and I like to produce that too. So I have
an Instagram on my own that I post some whether
you know it's a nature scene that captured, you know,
captured in time, because it touched my heart, I think
to myself, hey, it might touch another person's heart too,
So I you know, whether it's a poem I read
that that really gave me the gift for the day
(28:49):
to be able to survive some challenges. I think maybe
that could lift up another soul spirit, you know. So
it's just that sharing is carrying that saying really goes
a long way. I think that positive energy is something
that the world needs now more than ever. It always
needed it, But I think, yeah, if we can produce it,
(29:10):
if we can take part in it, and if we
can find people who do that and produce it, it's powerful.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Agreed. Agreed.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And so we have similar routines of nature and dance
and getting inspiration from social media and positive people. Are
there any practical tips that you can give our listeners
to build community and to reinforce unity.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Absolutely, you know, I'm I love both narrative therapy and
cognitive viriau therapy, and despite its long name, it's really simple.
I think. Therefore, I feel that's the heart of CBT
cognitive viraaual therapy, that cognition. Our thoughts matter, and they
are connected to the way they make us feel. If
(29:57):
we are ruminating on negative thoughts, thoughts that you know,
is labeling situations or ourselves or others. If we are,
you know, drowning in a bunch of should statements like
I should know that better, or I should I should this.
If we are discounting the positives in our life, and
that's all we do is see that half the glass
half empty, we can do something about it. The tip
(30:22):
is the first step is to become aware that we're
doing this, that we're on the right of some sort
right like mindfulness awareness. That's the first step, and once
that happens, learning how to do it differently. For every
you know. For example, for every negative thought that you have,
push yourself to produce a few positive ones, even one.
(30:43):
Like for every label that you produce to conclude some
scenario or situation with force yourself, if it's a negative label,
force yourself to also come up with a positive yeah,
you know, or to just say, what if it's not
it's not this label? What if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Be caring?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
What if you're missing something here? Curiosity again, absolutely the
what if? You know. I have a good friend who
created this whole entrepreneurship idea of asking the what if
question in every realm. So I think he just goes
around giving a lot of inspirational messages about challenging how
we think and what if there's another way to think?
(31:23):
Look at that what if? Right, we start with such
a statement and activate our curiosity to wonder, our sense
of wonder, we can we can unlock these these prisons
we create in our own heads because we assume that
it is this, and we fit ourselves in these boxes
that end up being prisons within our mind, and our
(31:45):
story can get reauthored. Now I'm jumping into narrative therapy,
which is another modality and a tip that I can
offer through that lens. Find out what is your story?
See if it's negatively saturated? Right, become your very own
author and reauthor your story. Find the positive in it,
and if you can't find it, be curious as to
(32:06):
how you can find it. Maybe somebody else can find
it for you with their support. And that's where potentially
a counselor could be helpful, right or somebody that can't
that you trust and look at that and kind of
offer you another suggestion another person.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So for those in the audience taking notes, doctor Rublt
is suggesting awareness, self awareness, mindfulness and accepting of being
aware of our thoughts and accepting the positive and the negative.
And because our brains are naturally going to look for
the negative to keep us safe. You know, we're stressed, overwhelmed,
(32:45):
our brain's become bottom heavy and that and that part
of our brain picks into survival mode, and so we're
going to be searching and scanning for the negative. So
I heard you say, force yourself be intentional to look
for the opposite, the positive, and challenge those thoughts, asking
what if. Tip number two is asking what if and
empowering yourself to write your own rewrite your own story.
(33:08):
And you reminded me of inner child work, inner child healing.
You know, we have those early experiences, adverse childhood experiences
that can stay with us. And so would you also
suggest as a practical tip to kind of care for
little Kamika, little Sarah, the.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Person I'm so glad you brought that up, comicap because
one of the things that I do acknowledge and encourage
oftentimes my clients to do, is to recognize that inside
all of us, there is a child within. There's an
adult within, and there is a parent with it. The
child within is exactly that vulnerability state, that raw emotional
(33:53):
voice of you know, I hate this, I don't want
to go there, I don't want to do that, you
know what's wrong with me? Right? It's a very innocent,
vulnerable voice, and it needs to be allowed to to
be acknowledged. Oftentimes people go straight to the adult voice
when the smallest amount of the child voice within them surfaces,
(34:13):
where the adult is like telling them, you know, the
adult voice in our societies a bunch of dos and don'ts.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
And it's right.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It's a lot of all or nothing right, and so
it puts oftentimes just shuts down, silences the in our voice,
the child within, and ultimately makes it dismissed and invalidating.
You know, it's not embracing of its existence. And there's
something really really wrong when we do that, because we
(34:43):
are kind of not allowing that part of that vulnerability
to be embraced and accepted, and it doesn't go away
by dismissing it. We don't just know, it doesn't vanish,
it's just silenced. Yeah, and it adds to resentment, It
adds to to more intense emotions of anger and frustration.
(35:04):
So here comes where the parent voice is supposed to come.
And by parent voice not talking about an authoritarian style
of parenting, I'm talking about authoritative the most loving, nurturing
parental figure you can think of. We have seen them
in action, whether it was our direct parent who was
falling in this category, or a grandparent, or a teacher,
(35:25):
or a kind, nurturing, loving, caring human being. Where they
see us, they make us feel seen and accepted. They
provide empathy and compassion, but they also help us reflect,
help us connect the dots. So yes, I activate not
silencing in our child's voice and allowing a nurturing parental
(35:48):
voice within us to give the child within us big hugs.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Met with us.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So the restorative practices has a model social discipline window.
And there's these quadrants and the one that you're talking
about the doing the parenting that's with the child, not
to the child, not for the child, or not against
the child, but it's more partnering and it's restorative and
(36:17):
it's it's not permissive and it's not demanding. And so
that just also reminds me of restorative practices to restore
our wholeness within us and so.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Practical lots of practical tips.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I'm taking notes over here too, So I hope the
audience is taking notes too, because the work is ongoing,
you know, license or ud license, whether we have the
degree or not, Like, the work still.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Continues as absolutely growth mindset, that self actualization journey of
getting to know who we are, what is our strengths,
what is an area that we want more support with,
you know, whether we want to label it as a
weakness or we want to label it as an area
we want more growth, more attention, more support. It's just
(37:02):
ongoing via a long, lifelong learner. And don't shy away
from having that growth mindset because this makes life worth
living and we're learning and we're growing and we're connecting
the dots.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
So would you say, like these processes of doing our
inner work, our inner healing, can happen at the same
time as we're showing up whole in our communities. Whether
we feel healed and whole or not. Do you feel
like one has to precede the other to help the
community be stronger and to help the community be more unified.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Not at all. It goes hand in hand. It's it's
something you know. I love the word synergy. Sometimes we activate,
we we activate growth in each other. Sometimes sharing vulnerability
is what activates growth in another person who resonates. As
you said, it takes courage to show up in spaces
(37:56):
and to sometimes share vulnerabilities and share even curiosity to
plunge into the unknown. Fears can hold us back. But
when we dare greatly I'm really citing Bernie Brown a
lot today. Daring greatly is another around just like the
other one give them and perfection. But when we dare
(38:17):
greatly to leap into our courage, to discover, to be curious,
to have a sense of wonder, to learn how else
another person is coping with this right, Sometimes it's about
learning from each other. It's about sharing vulnerability so that
it puts us at ease to share tips, to connect
(38:41):
and to say this is what's working for me. You know,
maybe maybe consider doing that too, or yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Like, because I just don't.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I want to?
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Is the pressure.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I just want to reassure people that you don't have
to like be this heeled, complete person before you help
the community. You it's in tandem. It's it's and are
just it. You can do both.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Absolutely, you can do both, and don't isolate. The worst
thing you can do is pull away, shut down, retrieve, isolate, disconnect,
ruminate with those thoughts I mentioned by the way, you
can look this stuff up. It's my favorite realm of
framework of cognitive BABO therapy is through the lens of
doctor David Burns. He's written books like When Panic Attacks
(39:25):
or his website Feeling Good Feeling good dot com. You
can go on this website and retrieve a lot of
knowledge and resources and information about what it means to
be mindful of your thoughts and how these thoughts are
connected to your feelings. Because if I think all day
that I am flawed, I have limits, I am whatever
(39:49):
label I give myself. Okay, if I blame myself, of course,
ione I feel horrible. How can I not? How can
anybody feel good if they think like that most of
the time in their day to day experiences. The key
here is recognizing and being mindful that I or any
given person is thinking through those lenses, and that's why
(40:10):
those references of knowing what those invalid, distorted thoughts are
is powerful. It's a tool in your toolbox.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
No better, do better.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yeah, you can't change something that you're not aware of it,
that you don't know is happening.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, if you start recognizing, Wow, I sure do jump
into the conclusion a lot. I sure do look through
the lens of all or nothingness a lot.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
You know, I sure do tend to blame like it's
got to be someone's fault yep. Right, if I discount
the positives in my life quite often and I only
see it through the doom and gloom hm, which, by
the way, research shows directly feeds into depression clearly, Right,
then how can I recognize that these thoughts are what
(40:56):
I'm producing? And what if I work a little bit
more on on finding outlets and experiences that could produce
a little bit more of other thoughts? Yeah, you know,
And that's different for every given person. Sometimes people can
get challenged by interaction with others. Sometimes it's about energy,
it's about space. Is where am I? Where's the context
(41:17):
of my life? How can I unplug myself from the
negative energy and tapping to some positive ones.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
And is that another practical tip that you're kind of.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Culture plunge doesn't have to be extreme. Yeah, cultural plunges
doesn't need to be extreme stuff. You know. Sometimes I
tell young people, like go spend some time with the elderly,
Like go volunteer for an hour a week at a
nursing home. Will be amazed what it does for you. You
would love that for me. I was when I was
an undergrad. I was going through a lot, and I
(41:50):
was working as an activity assistant in Alzheimer's unit. And
my gosh, talk about the most powerful life classroom ever held,
not in a university but in my weekend you know
role and showing up once a week at this at
this place. It just was such a powerful perspective of
life and all this stuff that I was, you know, sweat,
(42:14):
don't sweat the small stuff. That's also book. But you know,
your cultural plunge could be an environment and a reality
of someone else in a different stage of life cycle
that you're so far away from because you're so isolated
in your own right. Young people are usually generally surrounded
by other young people, especially fair a colored student. But
(42:35):
if you unplug yourself and actually allow your weekly schedule
to have just one hour of cultural plunge in a
different life stage, talk about perspective change, Yes, and it
inspires you. Suddenly you realize when you leave that one
hour that I'm sure, I am glad, I'm young, and
I can do a lot of things, and a lot
of the wisdom that these people gave me is really
(42:58):
powerful and priceless. For their sake, I'm going to go
and use them because you know that that is just powerful.
It's yes, and vice versa. I tell people sometimes who
are far away from little kids, they haven't there's no no, nothing,
no energy like that around them, that that could be
very therapeutic, whether you love here or if you become
(43:18):
a mom's helper, or because just the way that kids,
you know, laugh about stuff, for find the funniest things
to you know, observing that, Yeah, it's it's really refreshing.
I mean, this is this is because I love as
a family therapist connecting these stages of life cycle because
we can all relate and whether we've been through it
or we're hitting that way, that is the evolution of
(43:41):
like our existence and the connection of what what what
human development is all about mm hm.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
And if you're focusing on the elderly or senior citizens,
or you're focusing on the littles, it takes very attention
off of your own struggles, your own challenges and just
makes them a little bit smaller one percent.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And for the elderly population, you know, being there, they're needed.
Our society is not utilizing their wisdom enough. When they're
able to just offer some of their wisdom right and
provide support or the level of empathy they offer because
they've been through so much already in their lifetime, it
carries so much weight. When a young person hears that,
(44:23):
it's like, Wow, this person is telling me that's not
something I should worry about. That I will regret worrying
about that if I go that direction. They know something.
There's a reason they you know, it qualifies them to
sometimes have more of that life wisdom experience shared. Yes,
So yes, back to connection, community and unity. Try to
bring your circle to touch the stages of a life
(44:46):
cycle in our human experience. They will do wonder in
terms of creating community, unity and sharing and feeling empowered
that we all need each other.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
And is that your vision for you know, is that
your vision for us as the human race.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Absolutely, I think that's That's the reason I took this
role at u C. Davis is to bring more of
that bridging and community and connection. I think that. I mean,
this is a college town, but I feel like the
community of Davis has so much to offer to the
university and vice versa. And I think that students, you know,
and again I'm speaking only from my own personal experiences
(45:25):
as a counselor who's worked in the community of Davis
and also at the university, I think there is so
much opportunity for sharing and connecting and community building, to
heal each other, to to be inspired, to to be curious,
and to have that sense of wonder to learn from
each other.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
It will be.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
It will make a better place, It will. I do
believe that.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Your your passion is coming through and it's I'm feeling it,
and I feel hopeful that you know, we can be
stronger together and we can build a more united community
if we take time and make the space to see
each other and hear each other and share our stories.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
And do you have any final thoughts for our audience
as we say goodbye.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I hope that every person who did listen to this
podcast gets inspired to make a difference in someone else's
life in a small way. Whether that is, you know,
creating more connection by just simply smiling too people walking
by right on the on the walks, whether it's it's
greeting and making more eye contact something small, to wanting
(46:40):
to relate and connect by sharing vulnerabilities to one another.
I mean those small steps. All of it is about
community building and the opposite of disconnect and isolation.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yes, yes, well, thank you doctor Sarah Ruberlt. I've enjoyed
mark our conversation and the topic of building a unity
in the community has left me inspired and so thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Pleasure Mika, thank you so much for inviting me on
this show.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Everyone be sure to tune in to It's Your Voice
next Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Time on W four
c Y dot com or talk for TV. May we
all have enriching conversations and diversity this week. Thank you
for listening.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Chic Let's preech lo chic, Let's speak in logic, Let's
speech in logic, Let's preach all the.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Logic. Let's preach lot let's preach
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you
(00:20):
for choosing W four c Y Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Lot chic Let's Greek not Chick, Let's Speak show.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
In loic Let's Breech, lot Let's Breach.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
O, the.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Lot That's Breech and lot Let.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Lot, Hello, and welcome to It's Your Voice, the show
that hosts enriching conversations in diversity. My name is Kamika
Edwards Avobero and I am standing in as guest host
for Bahia Yachson today. You can find Bahia's website at
Know what you Want Coaching dot WordPress for descriptions of
(01:15):
the diversity education courses and coaching opportunities. She offers, I'm
excited to be a guest host again. And so to
remind you of who I am. My name is Kamika.
My personal life, to call me mother, to call me sister,
and one calls me WiFi. In my professional life, I
have worked in the public education school system since nineteen
(01:36):
ninety nine, first as a teacher, and I've been a
school counselor since twenty sixteen. The title of our show
today is Building Community Unity, and our guest is doctor
Sarah Rublt. Doctor Sarah Rubelt is a multicultural family therapist.
She has worked with immigrants and refugees since obtaining her
master's degree in counseling in two thousand and two. She
(01:59):
later focused on cross cultural relationships and multicultural family therapy
in her PhD program, completed in two thousand and nine,
focusing on success in intermarriage and raising bicultural children. Her
research has been published in Journal of Current Psychology. She
is a very active member in her community. She serves
(02:22):
as a volunteer board member for the Davis Schools Foundation
and as a strong advocate for mental health and building
community and unity. Welcome Sarah, thank you for being here.
Please tell us about your efforts.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, of course, of course, and I like to add
that I'm also a counselor at university and work closely
with Manasa at least her North African South Asian students,
as well as international students and scholars. Although I'm here
as a community member and not a representative, I wanted
to just include that. But yes, I have been very
(02:59):
much involved and passionately focused on the idea of community.
I think is extremely important to break the barriers to
create bridges. Our world, as you may have recognized, is
more polarized than ever, and these walls, these separations, cause
(03:19):
a great deal of harm and disconnect for the psychological
well being of others in our community, and it's important
to take that seriously and to do the opposite to
build connection.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, look got you started in the work, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I think you know being an immigrant myself, I grew
up in the Midwest, my parents, I grew up in
a bicultural household myself, and just recognizing the importance of
bridging and integrating my two backgrounds and creating a deeper
(03:55):
level of understanding to people who potentially wanted to put
me in a category that I don't belong And you
see this, it's no, this is not about villainizing any
single person or any entity. I think we all have
a lot to learn from each other. And the stance
of curiosity became sort of that hallmark of what I
(04:18):
recognize is missing is to to show curiosity and to
allow people to be curious so that they can learn.
And you know, from from the moment I knew I
wanted to pursue psychology, sociology, anthropology. I've double majored in
psychology and sociology and minored in anthropology because I cared
about all of these questions that context matters, narrative matters,
(04:42):
and yeah, so the curiosity began there. And see from
the line of work that I've done that it really.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Is okay, you're back, Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes, sorry, I can go on and on, but I
rather you ask the questions and I can be more
specific in answering that.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Lived experiences your background. You know, we bring all of
ourselves into our work, and so when you were talking
about your your background, I was thinking about how people
perceive me. And there's so many stereotypes, you know, that
that break down community and build and put up more walls,
(05:23):
and so I'm pretty sure that people perceive me in
a way that's not how I identify myself, So what
what is? What?
Speaker 4 (05:31):
How are you the or that.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
That's not connected to your identity?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I have so many, you know, I think it's not
only my own personal stories since I was young, growing
up and being misunderstood or you know, assumptions that were
made about me that were inaccurate, but also I think
I have a self place in my heart for my clients,
my students, my you know, families that I work with,
(05:58):
who also bring that into focus into a whare the
other the overgeneralizations, the you know, assumption makings, the jump
into conclusions, I mean as we know now. And this
is what I love about psychology is that it holds
so much, so many answers around this topic, you know,
I mean cognitive HRO therapy in particular. I always say
(06:20):
it has to do with I think, therefore I feel.
And there are ten thoughts that are identified as invalid,
and among those thoughts are all or nothing, thinking, over generalizing, jumping,
digging conclusions. So I think these assumptions are made, particularly
oftentimes out of our limited knowledge and information. We make
(06:41):
associations based on something we've seen or heard, and to
break that cycle is to come from a not knowing stance.
What does that mean? That means throw away all the
assumptions we hold that we think is solute and show
more curiosity. Yeah, show more curious city.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Right, And so you're asking people, you're asking your clients,
you're asking those in your circle to not be afraid
to ask questions. Is that how you recommend approaching with curiosity?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And if that is not the approach that is given
to a person who's already being overgeneralized or you know,
other to activate that curiosity, heay like, would you like
to know about me? Would you like me to share
my narrative, my story? Because I'm more than happy to
(07:33):
do so.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yes, how do you do that? In so you described
how you do that professionally. What's what does your community
work look like, your activism and advocacy.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
It's a very good question. I think just being a
parent in our community, recognizing the immense need for support
in our schools with our education curriculum program is that
you know need funding all the way to teacher support
(08:04):
and above all, mental health support access the mental health
for students. Because a little bit goes a long way
and someone is going through a tough time or through vulnerability,
you know having the support there makes it makes a difference. Yes,
and yeah I can. I can go on and on
about that, but I think it's it's extremely important to
(08:25):
address challenges. I think I've always been an observer of needs.
Perhaps it's that caring personality that you know is required
to be a counselor, to hold empathy, to hold compassion,
to put yourself in other people's shoes. It is something
that I think I learned from my mother. She was
(08:47):
a nurse, and from early on I remember that teaching
became very natural to me, the practice of considering what
someone else feels, not just my own.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yes, yes, I can, I shout out Davis Schools Foundation.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
You do work with them, right, do you still do?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, zoo, They're amazing organization. Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
At the part of the pandemic, as a school counselor,
we saw the needs skyrocket and so David Schools Foundation
helped us as school counselors here in the city of
Davis support our students with their mental health needs. And
so your philanthropic, philanthropic work with David Schools Foundation, I
(09:28):
have personally witnessed and my students have benefited from you know,
prioritizing that student mental health matters. You know, mental health
matters above well, I don't know above or equal to academics,
but in its college town sometimes it gets overlooked for
you know, the pursuit of academia. And we know that
(09:51):
we do better when we're stable in our physical and
mental health. It's harder to get things done if we're
not feeling well inside our hearts and outside in our bodies.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So thank you for thank you for that support.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Thank you very much. Absolutely, you said it so beautifully
about all that encompass this mission of David School's foundation.
It is indeed important to prioritize emotional mental health in
our community. You know, Academics is what this is. Even
as a college community counselor, I give the same sort
(10:24):
of message, which is, yes, academics is important, but in
order to be successful in your academic goals, you want
to be grounded and you want to have emotional health
and emotional wellness as a priority. So it's it's absolutely
the foundation for living a healthy life, balanced life. To
(10:47):
take that seriously.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And the stronger the individual, the stronger the family, the
stronger the community.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
What kind of activities bring, help bring people together, or
help close divisions that you're that you've been a part of,
or that you're recommending that you know reinforces and emphasizes unity.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So thank you for asking that question. You know, I
think anytime people come together and share and are welcoming
and create spaces for all to feel welcomed, included, accepted.
Back to that curiosity stance, right like whether I attend
(11:28):
an event that is held in the community or the
university of it just warms my counselor heart to see
how much community can make a difference. I you know,
there is an incredible community that cares about building these bridges.
(11:53):
I wanted to a shout out for some of these
organizations that create that. For example, I House the International
House of Davis. I'm really fond of them. I see
that through the years of living here, they've organized events
that brought people together. I hope they continue doing that,
and I hope that there is more and more funding
towards that because it is important to build bridges. It
(12:15):
is important to you know, feed the thirst of curiosity
of people who want to know, who want to learn,
who want to plunge in to an experience. One of
my professors in grad school taught us, you know, it
gave us a project. It was called a cultural plunge project,
and we were supposed to pick an experience we've never had,
(12:40):
whether that is walking into a synagogue, to a mosque,
to a church, to a you know, gay bar, I
don't know, just anything that would would be a complete
unknown and we might have a set of assumptions connected
to it. She empowered us to not be afraid and
to just be carious, go with a list of questions
(13:01):
and observe. And years later, when I became a professor
and taught that exact course Multicultural Family Therapy, you know,
I adapted the same exact assignment for my students. It's
about getting to know an experience and figure out and
make your own decision.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Taking that pledge I think requires bravery and courage.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Do you agree one hundred percent? Absolutely? And I think
if you have a choice between living and fear or learning,
I mean I promote growth mindset. This is something as
a mom and as a counselor, I promote and teach
all the time. And I'm learning for as long as
I live until my dying breath. You know I'm going
to be learning. I mean that will never stop. If
(13:47):
you are open to learn, you are going to be curious.
And you know at some point you want to put
fear aside and say, what is the harm of knowledge? Education?
If it aligns with my values, it is something that
I might you know, benefit from. But if it is
something that is absolutely all that I feared it to be,
(14:07):
what's the worst that could happen? You just choose not
to adapt or learn or but but knowledge is power.
Knowledge is you know, is absolutely important for our growth
and development.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
That's one of my favorite phrases, knowledge is power. I
love it too.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I was learning. I'm also a lifelong learner. I enjoy learning.
I enjoy uh building new neural pathways and neuroplasticity.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
You were never too old.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
To learn something new, and so yes, you can teach
an old dog new tricks and so encouraging people to
get out of their silos. And I'm a firm believer
in going to different places, new spaces, and talking to
people and getting to know their story. A training that
I did on restorative practices, restorative practices where they're repairing harm,
(15:00):
bringing people together that have harmed each other and getting
them to see each other's perspectives. At that seminar, at
that workshop, they were saying, it's really hard to hurt.
People want to know their story, yes, and so part
of building bridges is storytelling and listening and empathizing and
just realizing that the world is not like how you
see it. And so a big fan of storytelling and
(15:22):
big fan of the plunge into new spaces.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that,
and thank you for doing the things you do to
make a difference in that realm.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
It's important, I mean, but it's hard, right because you
started we started the podcast today about the current environment, right,
the geo political, spatial environmental It's not easy, and so
because of divisions, because of all that separates us.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You're so glad bringing it up. There's so many things
that separate us. But I'm a firm believer that the
humanity within us has a lot more commonalities that we
need to realize and we need to build the foundation
on that. And one of the things I'm recognizing is
warming my heart to see in our community is you know,
(16:11):
little kind of groups and circles that are created to
to come together in solidarity for whatever cause, whatever belief, whatever,
that is inspirational to them and and it's it's in
the making of what, you know, what is needed to
cope with the fears and the uncertainties and the anxieties
(16:35):
of our times today. And my hope is that we
create more of that. I think it's it's an absolute
necessity not only for our survival, but are back to again,
my counselor had is coming on the coping with the
challenges and the adversities of life always brings people together,
(16:59):
brings people together. That's why as counselors we have things
like support groups, you know, therapy groups. Community is healing,
connection is healing, Belonging is healing, and so tapping into
that is going to be our saving grace because no
one can make it alone in this world. Now, that's
(17:19):
a statement that Salvador Minuccin mentioned in his Lifetime Achievement Award.
I happened to be there at the net Networker Symposium
in Washington, d C. A few years ago when he
was getting his Lifetime Achievement Award. One of the grandfathers
of family therapy for those who don't know, but yeah,
here he was Argentinian count you know, psychiatrists later developing
(17:40):
family therapy, one of the family therapy foundations in structural
family therapy. And he was somebody I taught and studied in,
you know, obtaining my doctoral degree. And here I was
in this lifetime achievement award celebration and I go and
introduce myself. I got the microphone and I said, I
am a multicultural family therapist, and I want to know
(18:01):
what is your message to how that's made possible to
build bridges and create There's so much disconnect and there's
so much sometimes it feels impossible. And he's with his
argent beautiful Argentinian accident. He said, well, Sarah, I tell
you one thing. You can't do it alone. And it
just to this day is like this huge message, significant
(18:23):
message in my mind, you know, bringing importance, attention and
focus to unity. Back to the topic of our podcast.
No one can do it alone. We need each other.
We are stronger together. And our pain, our suffering, belongs
to the human family. It is not one individual's pain.
(18:46):
It is not unique, it is not isolated. It's relatable
and as long as we connect with that relatability. Back
to the power of empathy and compassion. We can stand
strong and unity will rise and make it happen, make
it possible for for people to to overcome pain.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
And thank you for sharing that direct quote and want
to honor to be there in person, to to hear
from someone who's doing the work, who lives you know,
who lives the work. And so is that one of
the ways that you stay motivated, because, like I said,
the divisions are everywhere, it's easy to get discouraged.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
How do you stay motivated?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Absolutely? I I do stay motivated with inspirational figures. You know,
there's my favorite book that I read to my kids
every night, or at this point my daughter she's younger,
is in basically bed Time Stories for Rebel Girls, and
it's it's it's designed to give little synopsies one page
(19:50):
of biographies of significant people face adversities, who face hardship
but manage to overcome. And sometimes there's significant people known
in the world, and sometimes it's people nobody's ever heard of,
but their story is magnificent and inspirational. So we learn
from each other, We learn from stories. We look up
and your question of what inspires me, it's stories stories
(20:14):
of people who have come before me in history and
have been through things that I am going through as
an individual today. And knowing that I am not the
first and probably won't be ever the last who's going
through that already connects me to the belonging of that big,
larger family of humanity. And I think it's inspiring to
(20:37):
learn from those who face unimaginable challenges but strength within them.
The power of the human strength is what we all possess,
and we can learn from each other that.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
They can do it. I can do it.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Absolutely, absolutely, And there are remarkable people among us know,
in our own communities, in our circle. I'm a huge
fan of Sandy Homan. I just love this woman. She's
done tremendous work here in our community, and her book
we all have a heritage, really resonated, and to this
day sometimes when I give talks or presentations, I use
(21:18):
that book to build grounding that we are all the same.
We are one, you know, each and every one of
us is unique in our own way, but we belong
to the family of humanity. Yeah, it's really important, And
of course Bahia is another person having such a podcast
(21:39):
to bring the voices of experiences and bring narratives into
life so people can hear it and get exposed to
it and be welcome to also share.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yeah, just making space for making space you see and
hear someone who doesn't look like you, doesn't sound like you,
doesn't live like you.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
It grows us, It grows our depth.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Absolutely absolutely, And I just want to do a shout
out to all the counselors in our world today, you know,
I mean all all caregivers, teachers included, what I feel like, particularly,
I think counselors and mental health workers just don't often
get enough kudos for the amount of heart they provide
(22:29):
in this line of work and the amount of exposure
to to pain and suffering and vicarious trauma, and you know,
it's just it's a lot, and it's yeah, I just
wanted I just had to take a moment and to
say thank you for the counselors who are making the
world a better place, to giving space for exactly this
(22:50):
voices to be heard, to be the you know, to
be the advocates, to be the advocate of the people
who don't have a voice. All of that is so
critical and so important. Yeh.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, So that's a good plug for you reduce the
stigma for therapy. Go get therapy, do your work, because
where else I will.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Tell you, I tell you I do a lot of
outreach about you.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
The therapy is all about you and your needs and
your goals.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Where else can you get.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
That I do a lot of outreach on that exact topic.
And me go, it has to do with a couple
of things that's extremely important too, And I think individuals
resonate with you matter. I cite a poetry poem of Roomy.
It's one of my favorite poets in the world, and
he says in this poem, you are not a drop
(23:40):
in the ocean. You're an entire ocean in a drop.
Every one of us matter, and our struggles, our challenges,
our pain, our difficulties doesn't define us, and it doesn't
need a label. It doesn't need a blame. It just
is exists, and therefore evenings its own space for opportunities
(24:01):
of healing. Because counseling is collaboration with another human being
to process your experience, so many things are not discussed,
mostly because of shame. Most of the times people assume
that you know by by acknowledging that this problem is there,
or that they need support, not even problem that they
need support, that they need help, but somehow it's a
(24:24):
sign of weakness, it's a sign that they're not capable,
or that it's going to be used against them.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yep, where they're crazy or they're weird, or there something's
wrong with them.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Somehow it's going to affect their future in a negative
way and couldn't be the farthest thing from the truth. Yes,
back to that original message, no one can do it alone.
We're hardwired to need connection, to need support, and you
know all the things that makes us long for that
(24:57):
is already innate in us. One t to receive kindness
but also to be kind to others. It's like how
you fail your bucket right, you give and you receive
all the time in this that's what makes the world
go around in terms of being there for others and
then being there for you. Yes, so it is important
to take it seriously when we need more and we
(25:20):
need support.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And I'm a big fan of self care. Self care
has become overly used, you know, but and it's important
to prioritize what you need. And so especially if we're
in the work as counselors, to not get burnt out
on that secondary or vicarious trauma and holding space for
(25:41):
people and their experiences and their stories. It's very important
to take time for yourself and to work your self
care routine. Whatever that looks like. What does your self
care look like? How do you prevent burnout? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, I absolutely live, breathe right poetry. I can't get
enough of that. I love poetry, So that's something I
do for myself to get grounded. I get inspired by
homes that is meaningful and grounding and speaks to the
human experience. I love nature. Nature is absolutely a healing source,
(26:18):
healing power. Anytime I see trees dancing in the wind,
if I spot a hummingbird, oh that definitely sparks some
serious soothing mechanism in me. When I see animals being
loving like you know, there's so much that I learned
from my own puppy, my own dog. She's not a
puppy anymore, but I still call her my puppy. But
(26:38):
just learning from animals and spending time looking at how
unconditionally they love you, know, and how they don't care
about you being perfect. There's that gift of imperfection that
I highly recommend the book the gift of imperfection. But
it's just a lot of connection with inspirational people, community
(27:05):
in the community, and loved ones and people who really
are they have the gift of putting you at ease.
You know that to me is self care.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That calm, calming, comforting, energy, soothing. So you have your
support people. Who's who's in your support part of your
support system.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I love walking in nature and I love movement. I
think dancing is really another form. Dancing in music is
also part of my routine of self care.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
You mentioned leaning on people, and so you can't do
it alone, and so who are the people that you
lean on to support you when you're feeling depleted.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
No, I have good friends who are there for me,
whether we go for a walk or just have an
exchange of thought or expression. I have also people that
I get inspired by. I know, I know that there
is a lot of you know, talk about social media
and things, but sometimes you know, we feed off of
(28:08):
each other's energy. And if you are inspired by someone
who produces positive energy, whether that is online, whether that
is in person, it doesn't matter if they produce positive energy.
I mean it's contagious. Yes, you're going to feel it right,
and so those things definitely something that I lean on
(28:29):
and I like to produce that too. So I have
an Instagram on my own that I post some whether
you know it's a nature scene that captured, you know,
captured in time, because it touched my heart, I think
to myself, hey, it might touch another person's heart too,
So I you know, whether it's a poem I read
that that really gave me the gift for the day
(28:49):
to be able to survive some challenges. I think maybe
that could lift up another soul spirit, you know. So
it's just that sharing is carrying that saying really goes
a long way. I think that positive energy is something
that the world needs now more than ever. It always
needed it, But I think, yeah, if we can produce it,
(29:10):
if we can take part in it, and if we
can find people who do that and produce it, it's powerful.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Agreed. Agreed.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And so we have similar routines of nature and dance
and getting inspiration from social media and positive people. Are
there any practical tips that you can give our listeners
to build community and to reinforce unity.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Absolutely, you know, I'm I love both narrative therapy and
cognitive viriau therapy, and despite its long name, it's really simple.
I think. Therefore, I feel that's the heart of CBT
cognitive viraaual therapy, that cognition. Our thoughts matter, and they
are connected to the way they make us feel. If
(29:57):
we are ruminating on negative thoughts, thoughts that you know,
is labeling situations or ourselves or others. If we are,
you know, drowning in a bunch of should statements like
I should know that better, or I should I should this.
If we are discounting the positives in our life, and
that's all we do is see that half the glass
half empty, we can do something about it. The tip
(30:22):
is the first step is to become aware that we're
doing this, that we're on the right of some sort
right like mindfulness awareness. That's the first step, and once
that happens, learning how to do it differently. For every
you know. For example, for every negative thought that you have,
push yourself to produce a few positive ones, even one.
(30:43):
Like for every label that you produce to conclude some
scenario or situation with force yourself, if it's a negative label,
force yourself to also come up with a positive yeah,
you know, or to just say, what if it's not
it's not this label? What if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Be caring?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
What if you're missing something here? Curiosity again, absolutely the
what if? You know. I have a good friend who
created this whole entrepreneurship idea of asking the what if
question in every realm. So I think he just goes
around giving a lot of inspirational messages about challenging how
we think and what if there's another way to think?
(31:23):
Look at that what if? Right, we start with such
a statement and activate our curiosity to wonder, our sense
of wonder, we can we can unlock these these prisons
we create in our own heads because we assume that
it is this, and we fit ourselves in these boxes
that end up being prisons within our mind, and our
(31:45):
story can get reauthored. Now I'm jumping into narrative therapy,
which is another modality and a tip that I can
offer through that lens. Find out what is your story?
See if it's negatively saturated? Right, become your very own
author and reauthor your story. Find the positive in it,
and if you can't find it, be curious as to
(32:06):
how you can find it. Maybe somebody else can find
it for you with their support. And that's where potentially
a counselor could be helpful, right or somebody that can't
that you trust and look at that and kind of
offer you another suggestion another person.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So for those in the audience taking notes, doctor Rublt
is suggesting awareness, self awareness, mindfulness and accepting of being
aware of our thoughts and accepting the positive and the negative.
And because our brains are naturally going to look for
the negative to keep us safe. You know, we're stressed, overwhelmed,
(32:45):
our brain's become bottom heavy and that and that part
of our brain picks into survival mode, and so we're
going to be searching and scanning for the negative. So
I heard you say, force yourself be intentional to look
for the opposite, the positive, and challenge those thoughts, asking
what if. Tip number two is asking what if and
empowering yourself to write your own rewrite your own story.
(33:08):
And you reminded me of inner child work, inner child healing.
You know, we have those early experiences, adverse childhood experiences
that can stay with us. And so would you also
suggest as a practical tip to kind of care for
little Kamika, little Sarah, the.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Person I'm so glad you brought that up, comicap because
one of the things that I do acknowledge and encourage
oftentimes my clients to do, is to recognize that inside
all of us, there is a child within. There's an
adult within, and there is a parent with it. The
child within is exactly that vulnerability state, that raw emotional
(33:53):
voice of you know, I hate this, I don't want
to go there, I don't want to do that, you
know what's wrong with me? Right? It's a very innocent,
vulnerable voice, and it needs to be allowed to to
be acknowledged. Oftentimes people go straight to the adult voice
when the smallest amount of the child voice within them surfaces,
(34:13):
where the adult is like telling them, you know, the
adult voice in our societies a bunch of dos and don'ts.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
And it's right.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It's a lot of all or nothing right, and so
it puts oftentimes just shuts down, silences the in our voice,
the child within, and ultimately makes it dismissed and invalidating.
You know, it's not embracing of its existence. And there's
something really really wrong when we do that, because we
(34:43):
are kind of not allowing that part of that vulnerability
to be embraced and accepted, and it doesn't go away
by dismissing it. We don't just know, it doesn't vanish,
it's just silenced. Yeah, and it adds to resentment, It
adds to to more intense emotions of anger and frustration.
(35:04):
So here comes where the parent voice is supposed to come.
And by parent voice not talking about an authoritarian style
of parenting, I'm talking about authoritative the most loving, nurturing
parental figure you can think of. We have seen them
in action, whether it was our direct parent who was
falling in this category, or a grandparent, or a teacher,
(35:25):
or a kind, nurturing, loving, caring human being. Where they
see us, they make us feel seen and accepted. They
provide empathy and compassion, but they also help us reflect,
help us connect the dots. So yes, I activate not
silencing in our child's voice and allowing a nurturing parental
(35:48):
voice within us to give the child within us big hugs.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Met with us.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So the restorative practices has a model social discipline window.
And there's these quadrants and the one that you're talking
about the doing the parenting that's with the child, not
to the child, not for the child, or not against
the child, but it's more partnering and it's restorative and
(36:17):
it's it's not permissive and it's not demanding. And so
that just also reminds me of restorative practices to restore
our wholeness within us and so.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Practical lots of practical tips.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I'm taking notes over here too, So I hope the
audience is taking notes too, because the work is ongoing,
you know, license or ud license, whether we have the
degree or not, Like, the work still.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Continues as absolutely growth mindset, that self actualization journey of
getting to know who we are, what is our strengths,
what is an area that we want more support with,
you know, whether we want to label it as a
weakness or we want to label it as an area
we want more growth, more attention, more support. It's just
(37:02):
ongoing via a long, lifelong learner. And don't shy away
from having that growth mindset because this makes life worth
living and we're learning and we're growing and we're connecting
the dots.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
So would you say, like these processes of doing our
inner work, our inner healing, can happen at the same
time as we're showing up whole in our communities. Whether
we feel healed and whole or not. Do you feel
like one has to precede the other to help the
community be stronger and to help the community be more unified.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Not at all. It goes hand in hand. It's it's
something you know. I love the word synergy. Sometimes we activate,
we we activate growth in each other. Sometimes sharing vulnerability
is what activates growth in another person who resonates. As
you said, it takes courage to show up in spaces
(37:56):
and to sometimes share vulnerabilities and share even curiosity to
plunge into the unknown. Fears can hold us back. But
when we dare greatly I'm really citing Bernie Brown a
lot today. Daring greatly is another around just like the
other one give them and perfection. But when we dare
(38:17):
greatly to leap into our courage, to discover, to be curious,
to have a sense of wonder, to learn how else
another person is coping with this right, Sometimes it's about
learning from each other. It's about sharing vulnerability so that
it puts us at ease to share tips, to connect
(38:41):
and to say this is what's working for me. You know,
maybe maybe consider doing that too, or yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Like, because I just don't.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I want to?
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Is the pressure.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I just want to reassure people that you don't have
to like be this heeled, complete person before you help
the community. You it's in tandem. It's it's and are
just it. You can do both.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Absolutely, you can do both, and don't isolate. The worst
thing you can do is pull away, shut down, retrieve, isolate, disconnect,
ruminate with those thoughts I mentioned by the way, you
can look this stuff up. It's my favorite realm of
framework of cognitive BABO therapy is through the lens of
doctor David Burns. He's written books like When Panic Attacks
(39:25):
or his website Feeling Good Feeling good dot com. You
can go on this website and retrieve a lot of
knowledge and resources and information about what it means to
be mindful of your thoughts and how these thoughts are
connected to your feelings. Because if I think all day
that I am flawed, I have limits, I am whatever
(39:49):
label I give myself. Okay, if I blame myself, of course,
ione I feel horrible. How can I not? How can
anybody feel good if they think like that most of
the time in their day to day experiences. The key
here is recognizing and being mindful that I or any
given person is thinking through those lenses, and that's why
(40:10):
those references of knowing what those invalid, distorted thoughts are
is powerful. It's a tool in your toolbox.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
No better, do better.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yeah, you can't change something that you're not aware of it,
that you don't know is happening.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, if you start recognizing, Wow, I sure do jump
into the conclusion a lot. I sure do look through
the lens of all or nothingness a lot.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
You know, I sure do tend to blame like it's
got to be someone's fault yep. Right, if I discount
the positives in my life quite often and I only
see it through the doom and gloom hm, which, by
the way, research shows directly feeds into depression clearly, Right,
then how can I recognize that these thoughts are what
(40:56):
I'm producing? And what if I work a little bit
more on on finding outlets and experiences that could produce
a little bit more of other thoughts? Yeah, you know,
And that's different for every given person. Sometimes people can
get challenged by interaction with others. Sometimes it's about energy,
it's about space. Is where am I? Where's the context
(41:17):
of my life? How can I unplug myself from the
negative energy and tapping to some positive ones.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
And is that another practical tip that you're kind of.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Culture plunge doesn't have to be extreme. Yeah, cultural plunges
doesn't need to be extreme stuff. You know. Sometimes I
tell young people, like go spend some time with the elderly,
Like go volunteer for an hour a week at a
nursing home. Will be amazed what it does for you. You
would love that for me. I was when I was
an undergrad. I was going through a lot, and I
(41:50):
was working as an activity assistant in Alzheimer's unit. And
my gosh, talk about the most powerful life classroom ever held,
not in a university but in my weekend you know
role and showing up once a week at this at
this place. It just was such a powerful perspective of
life and all this stuff that I was, you know, sweat,
(42:14):
don't sweat the small stuff. That's also book. But you know,
your cultural plunge could be an environment and a reality
of someone else in a different stage of life cycle
that you're so far away from because you're so isolated
in your own right. Young people are usually generally surrounded
by other young people, especially fair a colored student. But
(42:35):
if you unplug yourself and actually allow your weekly schedule
to have just one hour of cultural plunge in a
different life stage, talk about perspective change, Yes, and it
inspires you. Suddenly you realize when you leave that one
hour that I'm sure, I am glad, I'm young, and
I can do a lot of things, and a lot
of the wisdom that these people gave me is really
(42:58):
powerful and priceless. For their sake, I'm going to go
and use them because you know that that is just powerful.
It's yes, and vice versa. I tell people sometimes who
are far away from little kids, they haven't there's no no, nothing,
no energy like that around them, that that could be
very therapeutic, whether you love here or if you become
(43:18):
a mom's helper, or because just the way that kids,
you know, laugh about stuff, for find the funniest things
to you know, observing that, Yeah, it's it's really refreshing.
I mean, this is this is because I love as
a family therapist connecting these stages of life cycle because
we can all relate and whether we've been through it
or we're hitting that way, that is the evolution of
(43:41):
like our existence and the connection of what what what
human development is all about mm hm.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
And if you're focusing on the elderly or senior citizens,
or you're focusing on the littles, it takes very attention
off of your own struggles, your own challenges and just
makes them a little bit smaller one percent.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And for the elderly population, you know, being there, they're needed.
Our society is not utilizing their wisdom enough. When they're
able to just offer some of their wisdom right and
provide support or the level of empathy they offer because
they've been through so much already in their lifetime, it
carries so much weight. When a young person hears that,
(44:23):
it's like, Wow, this person is telling me that's not
something I should worry about. That I will regret worrying
about that if I go that direction. They know something.
There's a reason they you know, it qualifies them to
sometimes have more of that life wisdom experience shared. Yes,
So yes, back to connection, community and unity. Try to
bring your circle to touch the stages of a life
(44:46):
cycle in our human experience. They will do wonder in
terms of creating community, unity and sharing and feeling empowered
that we all need each other.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
And is that your vision for you know, is that
your vision for us as the human race.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Absolutely, I think that's That's the reason I took this
role at u C. Davis is to bring more of
that bridging and community and connection. I think that. I mean,
this is a college town, but I feel like the
community of Davis has so much to offer to the
university and vice versa. And I think that students, you know,
and again I'm speaking only from my own personal experiences
(45:25):
as a counselor who's worked in the community of Davis
and also at the university, I think there is so
much opportunity for sharing and connecting and community building, to
heal each other, to to be inspired, to to be curious,
and to have that sense of wonder to learn from
each other.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
It will be.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
It will make a better place, It will. I do
believe that.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Your your passion is coming through and it's I'm feeling it,
and I feel hopeful that you know, we can be
stronger together and we can build a more united community
if we take time and make the space to see
each other and hear each other and share our stories.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
And do you have any final thoughts for our audience
as we say goodbye.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I hope that every person who did listen to this
podcast gets inspired to make a difference in someone else's
life in a small way. Whether that is, you know,
creating more connection by just simply smiling too people walking
by right on the on the walks, whether it's it's
greeting and making more eye contact something small, to wanting
(46:40):
to relate and connect by sharing vulnerabilities to one another.
I mean those small steps. All of it is about
community building and the opposite of disconnect and isolation.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yes, yes, well, thank you doctor Sarah Ruberlt. I've enjoyed
mark our conversation and the topic of building a unity
in the community has left me inspired and so thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Pleasure Mika, thank you so much for inviting me on
this show.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Everyone be sure to tune in to It's Your Voice
next Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Time on W four
c Y dot com or talk for TV. May we
all have enriching conversations and diversity this week. Thank you
for listening.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Chic Let's preech lo chic, Let's speak in logic, Let's
speech in logic, Let's preach all the.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Logic. Let's preach lot let's preach
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