September 4, 2025 • 49 mins
"HELICONIAN OPTIVISOR" - THE JUDGE THE JUROR
TJTJ‘s release plans for the EPs will be Fall 2025 “Primitive Minds”, early 2026 “Medieval Institutions”, and mid-2026 “Godlike Technologies”. Each release will build on the last, culminating in a sweeping narrative about societal collapse, technological alienation, and the search for meaning.
In addition to unveiling the new single, The Judge The Juror will be hitting the road for an August tour in Alberta and BC with The Hallowed Catharsis & Plague Doctor.
Their sound—described in five words as Psychedelic Progressive Techdeath—combines technical riffage, intricate drum grooves, and experimental synthesis to dazzle the mind.
Click Here to Subscribe to The Adventures of Pipeman for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Take some zany and serious journeys with The Pipeman aka Dean K. Piper, CST on The Adventures of Pipeman also known as Pipeman Radio syndicated globally “Where Who Knows And Anything Goes.”
Check out our segment Positively Pipeman dedicated to Business, Motivation, Spiritual, and Health & Wellness.
Check out our segment Pipeman in the Pit dedicated to Music, Artistry and Entertainment.
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TJTJ‘s release plans for the EPs will be Fall 2025 “Primitive Minds”, early 2026 “Medieval Institutions”, and mid-2026 “Godlike Technologies”. Each release will build on the last, culminating in a sweeping narrative about societal collapse, technological alienation, and the search for meaning.
In addition to unveiling the new single, The Judge The Juror will be hitting the road for an August tour in Alberta and BC with The Hallowed Catharsis & Plague Doctor.
Their sound—described in five words as Psychedelic Progressive Techdeath—combines technical riffage, intricate drum grooves, and experimental synthesis to dazzle the mind.
Click Here to Subscribe to The Adventures of Pipeman for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Take some zany and serious journeys with The Pipeman aka Dean K. Piper, CST on The Adventures of Pipeman also known as Pipeman Radio syndicated globally “Where Who Knows And Anything Goes.”
Check out our segment Positively Pipeman dedicated to Business, Motivation, Spiritual, and Health & Wellness.
Check out our segment Pipeman in the Pit dedicated to Music, Artistry and Entertainment.
Would you like to be a sponsor of the show?
Would you like to have your business, products, services, merch, programs, books, music or any other professional or artistic endeavors promoted on the show?
Would you like interviewed as a professional or music guest on The Adventures of Pipeman, Positively Pipeman and/or Pipeman in the Pit?
Would you like to host your own Radio Show, Streaming TV Show, or Podcast?
Click Here to Subscribe for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Follow @pipemanradio on all socials & Pipeman Radio Requests & Info at www.linktr.ee/pipemanradio
Stream The Adventures of Pipeman daily & live Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays at 1PM ET on W4CY Radio & Talk 4 TV.
Download, Rate & Review the Podcast at The Adventures of Pipeman, Pipeman Radio, Talk 4 Media, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, YouTube & All Podcast Apps.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, you have done to censure.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm for wow for you you oh.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Your how you tell your lunch out? Saw you last
shot a shy?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
This is the pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe
Man W four C Y Radio, and I'm here with
the next guest that the has some badass music that
kind of kind of combines two of my personalities. Really yeah,
and you're gonna find out about why. So let's welcome
David from the Judge the juror.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Hello, folks, where'd the executioner go? We decided early on
to drop them?
Speaker 6 (01:24):
So now, oh yeah, I love it though.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
So the reason I said that is because when I
when I saw what they call your genre, okay, and
I hate genres because it just lumps artists into something.
And it's like I almost do this thing when I
go on tour and do interviews at festivals, like I
have bands, tell me what would your genre be? Because
(01:52):
it's pretty ridiculous nowadays, like the genres are so microscopic
that one band could fit into it.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
It becomes like a funny but.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yours I read as psychedelic, progressive tech.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Death nailed it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
And you know, I'm somebody that is both a metal head, well,
a metal head, a punk and hippie like dig psychedelic music.
I dig metal, I dig punk, I dig all kinds
of metal. I dig good musicianship. So your genre there
(02:34):
just fits everything.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
That'll end.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
It's it's kind of like if Possessed in the Grateful
Dead had a baby.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Oh now that's that's a pretty high high.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
So thank you, right, you know, because I have somebody
like back in the eighties. Yeah, ago on like Friday
night to go see a Slayer show and on Saturday
go to a Dead show.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Hell yeah, love that, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, it's like fuck the gatekeeper shit too. Music is music.
If you like music, you like music. I'm more of
a metal head than most anybody there is. It doesn't
mean I don't like other music.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I could not agree more. We're very much like that.
Like while we play in you know, kind of the
tech death space with that, we're very influenced by a
lot of other music that isn't metal, you know self,
especially with like the kind of electronic psychedelic side like
our our lead guitarists favorite band in the world is
Dance Gavin Dance. Now I'm kind of like, yeah, like
(03:38):
an emo alternative, you know, so very outside of what
we do, but that influence has definitely come into the
music as well. And I agree. I think like we're
blessed in the metal genre also that you can make
so many things metal, you know, yeah, it's it just
works so well. So it's just like what can we
just kind of throw together? And I love how you
(04:00):
said about the genretization of metal because you hit it
exactly on the head. So side deaf tech progue is
a term that we made up nice and you hit
it on the head exactly. Because originally the idea was
like all this genretization, there's so much of it, right,
(04:21):
and you go to a metal head man, you're like,
oh you like that band? I also like death metal,
and they're like, they're black and grind. So we thought
it like, we should have a genre that's super hyper
specific to help you. But but then it's also kind
of like a tongue in cheek zab at that exact thing,
(04:42):
you know. So I'm glad that you pick that up.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
I love it well.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
You know, what you just said reminds me because you know,
I come from the days of the eighties or the
gatekeeper bullshit. And I remember I was at a show.
It was Venom, Slayer.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
And Exodus, oh sh.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
And Kronos got into a fistfight with Tom.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Because he's like, you guys aren't black metal. We're black metal.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
It's like, come on, dude, Like, and in twenty twenty five,
Venom wouldn't even be considered black metal.
Speaker 6 (05:18):
It's it's funny. I thought it was so.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Like evil and dark and heavy and fast back then,
and now I listen to him, I'm like, man, it
sounds kind of poppy to me.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
It's amazing how things evolve right.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
Right totally, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And then, like I mentioned Possessed before, arguably the first
death metal band ever, and I can say that they
still stand up to most death metal today.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Oh, I would agree too. I'm a big fan of
a lot of the old school stuff too, and they're
up there for me as.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well, totally. And you know, let's talk about the progressive part.
To me, Rush has some metal songs, a lot of
metal songs before they put the synth in.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
It holy toly agree.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, Like I love Rush like to me, twenty one
to twelve is one of the most metal fucking songs
ever to me, like I remember lasting it through my guitar,
ample bar and freaking headbanging to to Temples of Searings
and shit.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Hell yeah. I also love Rush though, and I agree
it does have a more metal tinge to it than
I think people realize, because.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Most people don't know nowadays, don't know the old Rush
like they know post Moving Pictures, and I'm not a
big post Moving Pictures person.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Like, yes, there was quite a.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Away from them.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
You know, they're great artists, but like I like before that,
like I love the first album, I love Carressive Steel,
I love Permanent Waves and you know, yeah, like Moving Pictures.
Everybody that you know is the the popular Rush fan. No,
(07:11):
but I love all the shit before Moving Pictures man,
Hell yeah. And you're Canadian, so like you would get
to Canada if you didn't like Rush.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Well exactly, we can't claim to be any sort of
prog band and say we don't like Rush, so you
would never catch me doing that. Don't worry.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
There you go, there you go, So tell me about
I love the story of what you're doing, because I
think you can even add to that genre that you
made up and call yourselves like power psychedelic, progressive tech death.
You got that whole concept thing going on, and that's.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
Quote unquote the power metal thing.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, but I think concepts are great because listen to
a song an album. To me, it's no different than
a book and a chapter.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
Couldn't agree more with that either. Yeah, you're you're telling
people something, whether you're thinking about it conceptually or just
as a one off piece, right, You're you're conveying something
to people through what you're doing musically. So absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I love how you have this whole thing of you
already have everything set up. It's almost like the the
the chapters are set up between these EPs that you're
putting out, and so tell us a little bit about
the story of how they're all connected and why this
one goes now, this one goes then, and so forth
(08:47):
for sure.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
So so the three EPs are based around actually a quote.
The gentleman's name is, I believe it's Edward Oh Moro.
I hope I didn't get that wrong. Edward Oh, I
think Moro. I'll have to confirm that. I should know
it off the top of my head. I know that anyway,
he was quoted as saying it was in a discussion
(09:12):
where they were kind of philosophizing about, you know, the
modern state of us as humans and why we're kind
of feeling like things around us sort of are coming
to this weird crux that's a little bit scary, and
he he chalked it up to there's a reason that
humanity is sort of heading down this path, and he
(09:35):
labeled it as three different, three different pieces of the
human puzzle that we deal with right now that really
don't kind of drive together when you think about it.
And so what those are and the names of the
EPs are going to be primitive minds. We have the
basically the same brain we've had since we've you know,
stepped out of caves. We have these medieval institutions the
(09:57):
second EP name, so all these instanttions around us that
still operate in these old ways that don't really serve
us too well. And then the third one, the third EP,
will be called godlike technology. Now we have these bones
and everything in our pocket, and we have this level
of technology that's unlike anything we've ever seen. Is a
race and these three things kind of coming together. His
(10:21):
theory is that this is causing a lot of human
suffering right now. In our world, and I very much agree,
I very relate to that. So that's kind of what
we're trying to do with these EPs is so Primitive
Minds is going to be this first one. That's what
Heliconian Optiviser is going to be from, So it's going
to be sort of a dive into some of our
(10:43):
human primitive emotions and things like that that kind of
can betray us in our modern world. Next, in the
We're thinking Early you know, twenty twenty six, we'll be
looking at medieval institutions and same kind of thing, will
dive further into some of these ideas about what we
think these institutions are, how we feel like they're negatively
(11:06):
impacting it. And then eventually we'll do the godlike technology
section as well, and we're kind of planning to encapsulate
that whole idea, hopefully between all three of these songs
and sorry, pardon me, all three of these EPs, and
be able to kind of put them together in a
sort of vision of that statement.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
So that's pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It's like it's kind of like when you have, you know,
books and then the follow up book and then the
follow up book, and you know, when you said the technology.
Something really hit home for me because I am a techie,
always have been. But I also know, like I'm a
gen xer. I built this stupid shit we use now
(11:46):
like right, and and just like you see in the movies,
I'm kind of sorry that we did.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You know.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
It's like I told my daughter one day.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I was on the phone with my youngest daughter and
I was like, you know, some days I just want
to drive down the road and throw my laptop, my phone,
and my iPad out the window and keep driving.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
She goes dead, Who are you kidding? You're just as
addicted as everybody else.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I'm like, yeah, you're right, except I lived in time
when we didn't have any of it, and it was
a better time, you know. I remember when I was
learning programming languages to build all this technology, and the
talk was always how it's going to make our life
so much easier and blah blah blah blah blah bullshit.
Because I'm here now in it. Life ain't easier. It's
(12:42):
more stressful. This is why everybody has stress anxiety, because
there is no off switch gone.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
It's like, just you know, like you can.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
I have clients that text me at three am, Like
what happened to the day is when a business is
and you couldn't get a hold of them at three am,
you know, and it's like people just assume. Another thing
really bugs me is people, especially the people that are
not tech oriented, they assume that because we have this technology,
(13:13):
you have to use it all and use it all
at once, like zoom. I can't tell you how many
times I've had appointments with somebody that would take like
a thirty second phone call and they're like.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
Okay, well let me send you a zoom link.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I'm like, it would take you longer to send the
zoom link than to have the phone call just become
to the phone call me okay, And then you know,
there's so many things like that. It's like I have
clients that will text me to let me know that
they just emailed me, and then they'll Facebook message me
(13:49):
to tell me that they text me that they emailed me.
And I'm just like, listen, I use all the technology,
I only need one. Okay, if you send me an email,
I'll get a notification that email. I don't need a
text to tell me you sent me an email. Like,
what is the freaking point of that.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Yeah, I agreed.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I think that's the destruction in the world right there,
we're talking, we talk about apocalypse.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
I think that's the pop apocalypse.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
We're like, all I look outside the window of my
studio and I see people walking around on their phones
like we're in the zombie apocalypse. Like I've literally watched
somebody walk right into a cement pole because they're too
busy on their phone.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
It's so true. We're so addicted to it, right And
and I mean this circles back with this whole idea
of these these three concepts together, right, This this technology
and stuff with especially you know, the social media stuff
is what a lot of people are addicted to their
phones about. And these institutions we're kind of talking about,
you know, they're they're setting these up to hit your
(14:55):
primitive brain. They know exactly what they're doing doing this.
They know that that stimulus is something in our brain
that's still from our you know, days of being more
animalistic and not a society like we are now, and
they know how to hit it. And so that's exactly
that's why I think again, these all tie together, right,
It's it's yeah, it's all these combinations of what they're
(15:19):
doing and nefarious purposes behind it. Even the ones that
don't have necessarily a nefarious intent become nefarious, is what
it's seeming like, you know. So it's just it's a
very it's a bizarre time, you know. And like I'm
an I'm an older millennial, right, I was born in
eighty seven, so I at least too kind of had
(15:40):
a little bit of the the gift of mostly technology
free childhood. A lot of people my age kind of
that was us. It was more when we were in
like I remember kind of first really being on like
a computer doing anything close what we do now MSN Messenger,
like when I was in junior high, maybe maybe mid
(16:02):
junior high, you know, so I still got to have
that kind of childhood experience where we didn't have that.
And I think about I see like kids today with it,
and I can't even imagine what being a kid must
be like in this day and age with with it's crazy,
like totally just wild.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah, And you know, to your point, like my two
older kids, they're born eighty five, eighty six, Oh yeah, okay,
and I remember the day this happened. But so we
had cell phones, but as a parent, you didn't limb
have it all the time. They couldn't bring it to school,
(16:44):
or they didn't have one. Like my kids were going
to school and no, you can't have a cell phone. No. Yeah,
like they didn't even have one. And then one day
I remember so clearly dropping them off at school and
it was like, out of nowhere, every kid cell phone.
And now I'm like, oh, fuck, now I gotta buy
my kids a cell phone because they can't be the
(17:05):
only ones in school without a cell phone.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Right, And that's part of it too.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Right, you know, it's yeah, you got the pressure.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
And speaking of social media, same thing, Like social media
is not social, it's anti social, attacking, bullying, everything that
was the worst things about my childhood, it's now expanded
because of social media. Like I can't even imagine what
these kids have to go through. Because I had bullies
(17:36):
that waited for me when I was walking home from school,
I didn't have cyber bullies.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
That's like a whole nother realm right there.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, it's and it's unbelievable how the depths people will
go on online to do that kind of stuff. It's
pretty upsetting.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, I even okay, so like even now, the the
idea of a president of the United States of America
using social media to take jabs at people just blows
my mind.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
It just blows my mind.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
I don't care who the president is, anybody that would
do just that you could actually do. I don't even
think they should be able to use social media for
stuff like that in a sense that maybe that's old me,
maybe that's me be an old fashioned, but like, come on, man,
it's like you're bullying world leaders with your ex account.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Yeah, and that part that we don't need, right It's
like it'd be one thing if we as a species
could be responsible with some of these things. But I
don't think that, unfortunately, coming anytime soon.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
And so you know, yeah, I mean, what's next.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Like listen, in the eighties, I was like, the machines
are going to take over. Everything I remember from the
seventies and the eighties that was sci fi is now
real life or outdated. Like the idea of a flip
phone is now outdated. And I remember watching Star Trek
and going whoa, yeah, what it is or what we're
doing right now is also from Star Trek. You know,
(19:15):
it's like it's real life and you thought it was
something that could never happen, you know. And then now
you take movies like I Robot or other movies like that,
and we're living that now with the whole AI thing,
you know. Oh yeah, and here's one.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
How about this.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I don't know if you ever thought of this, but
I mean, have you ever seen the movie Demolition Man?
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Oh? I you know what's funny is I literally watched
it two three days ago.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Okay, tell me that's not COVID.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Oh you know what I I literally kind of had
that same thought of like, yeah, this kind of could
have definitely could have been what society became, you know, right,
it's quite wild.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Think about no exchange, bodily fluids and like the idea
of having sex the real way of put you know,
and an electrog and I think there's a lot of
times I do think that we are just being programmed
for all this, you know, everything that happens, Like listen,
(20:26):
I also gotta laugh at with the COVID thing. You
know that people were spreading this saying, oh no, I'm
not gonna get the shot because it's you know, they're
going to inject the five G chip.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
But they're posting this on Facebook, and I would tell these.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
People, I'm like, dude, you are using a five G
phone to post this. They don't need.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
To chip you.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
You are chipping yourself literally right right.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
It's like people don't some people don't get it. It's
like even with the AI thing, Okay, so AI is
really popular now, but guess who's training the AI?
Speaker 6 (21:10):
We are being being these companies.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Have no costs involved in the research and development because
we're it for free.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Exactly. Yeah, right, it's it tested on the public. Is
kind of what it feels like, right, no matter what
the consequences of that are, socially or otherwise. And that's
a scary. It is a scary kind of world to
live in when you just see it so blatantly. You know,
(21:41):
I think we all kind of know what you know,
corporate and larger scale interests think about uh, the average person.
But I feel like with some of this tech stuff,
it's it's even more blatant than before. You know, you
are our product. We have you, and we're gonna use
(22:01):
you as said product. And that's it's it's a scary
world to live in.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Well, here's the problem. There's two problems. One is I
tell this people all the time. Why do you think
they give us this stuff for free like you think
because right it isn't some altruistic thing. No, that's number one.
Number two okay, so hmm. You take the smartest minds
(22:30):
in the world. They're creating this technology. They can do
things that you can't even imagine they can do. It's like,
I remember you talk about, you know, my son in
the beginning of the internet, you know, and he was
on his computer, he was doing stuff. I'm like, listen,
you need to be careful because people can get into
(22:53):
your computer and steal your shit. He's like, you know,
and typical of your generation and further general rations. You know,
stuff just works. They don't realize like like that, yeah,
actual programming behind this that makes it work. It doesn't
just work. So I said to him, I'm like, hey,
(23:13):
I said. He said to me, ah, come on, you
know they get to oh really. And I called up
a friend of mine and I'm like, hey, do me
a favor. Can you go on my son's computer right
now and start deleting files? And then all of a sudden,
popping up deleted file, deleted. My son's asking me what's
(23:34):
going on? Oh that thing you told me can't be done.
It's being done right now. You just let me know
when you want it to stop.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
That's amazing, right, you know that's.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
Really the way to teach your kids because like.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, they don't get sometimes experience, right, You
got to you gotta see that it's going to happen,
because it's easy to be like, well, maybe it does,
but not to me or or no. And then when you're.
Speaker 6 (24:01):
Old, you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I love it when you're like in your twenties and
your kids call you old. That's that's something, right, It's
it's why. But what's even wilder is like, Okay, I
have grandkids now, and like they can they could do
stuff their parents can't do on technology for.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Sure, and with a question.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And they have that same attitude and I kind of laugh,
like they love me, and that's because I'm like the
cool grandpa that brings them to mosh pits and and
teaches them how to use this technology and stuff. And
they're like and their parents are like, yeah, they're too old.
My kids are too old for my grandkids.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
That's wild.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
It's just a it's a trip, man, And you know
there's good and bad, like they're definitely is than bad totally.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
It's made my life easier.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
I think it's made it where I could do something
like this instead of having to do an interview where
you come into the studio or what have you. Yeah,
that made it better. But the fact that you know,
you see kids nowadays more and more have been mental illness,
having anxiety, having panic attacks.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
Stress.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Man, they got plenty of years for that crap.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
That's totally it, right. It's it's like we, yes, we
definitely get some conveniences, some things that do make our
lives easier from this stuff. But at some point where
where it starts to come down to me is like
at some point we kind of have to ask ourselves
as a society like okay, sure, but what are we
willing to give up for this?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (25:49):
And I don't think that's always part of the conversation.
It's always oh, what's coming and what's coming. It's like,
but where we're going with this, something else is going
to have to give. It just can't become this and
and everything stay the same, you know, So it's like,
what are we willing to sacrifice here? And what's starting
to get sacrificed, is like what scares me about people,
(26:09):
you know, and where we're going.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I think humanity is getting sacrificed because.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
This is exactly it, our humanity. That's exactly the perfect
word for it, right, And I don't think we all
necessarily can see it.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You know, we don't see it because it's like anything
else in life, when you're in the thick of it,
you don't really know.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
It isn't until you look bad.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
And that's why when you're a kid and then you
become a parent, you start to understand your parents, you
know type of thing. And now I understand my dad
in the respect of, you know, my forty year old
son saying shit to me. I'm like, oh, now I
get it. Now, I get how I was an idiot
(26:53):
with my dad. And they think they all think, like,
you don't understand things, you haven't lived their life for whatever.
And I think of this, okay, with what we're talking about.
People in my grandparents' generation were like, oh, life was
better when we churned our own butter, when we did
(27:14):
stuff like that, And You're like, you're insane. Why would
I want to churn my own butter when I could
go to a star buy and now all the sickness
that we have physical and mental from all the garbage
that we consume in our body, and really we have
more stress doing it this so called easy way with
(27:38):
food then the old times when it was very simple times, Hey,
farm your farmland, churn your butter.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
But yeah, there was.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Family stuff going on. There was also the passing of generations.
You know. More and more nowadays, less kids are getting
involved in a family business, you know, yeah, and less
kids are having that you know, family mentality or care.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
You know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
We take these social media things and use them to
become antisocial, you know.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Yeah, it's amazing how the things. You know, something is
set up to be something and then it becomes the
antithesis of what it was meant to be. That's it
seems to be a common thread with us as people
sometimes too.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah, look at TikTok Okay. During COVID, TikTok was the
fun app. Everybody was getting off of Facebook as all
emotion and getting on TikTok because it was just fun.
And now TikTok is exactly what people ran away from,
like the same negativity. And that's the thing all this
technology has created way more negativity, not way more positivity.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Yeah, And I sometimes think that that's the right. Like,
you know, you're talking about the food analogy about how
you know, we have it easier, but then now with
getting food, but then you've traded all this stuff. I
think that's the perfect analogy for this too. Right, It's
like you are you are when we get when things
(29:13):
get easier, maybe it's easier for us in terms of
our existence and stuff, but I think as things get easier,
we're having a harder time, you know, keeping our brains
in a place that's reasonable. I think because things are
so easy, then it's like, well, you know, I don't
(29:34):
have to worry about my food, and I don't have
to worry if I'm going to get clean water, if
I have this and that I should go bitch at
somebody on the internet, right, And yeah, I think that's
part of it. Like we're very you know, we're very
fortunate in like our in society here, we we have
a lot, you know. And I think that exactly, Yeah,
(29:57):
that thing when it's this internet, So it's what we
were saying about the socialness of it, right, it's making
it so easy to be social via these things. That's
it's flipped into this anti social thing without kind of
right before our eyes, right, yeah, and yeah, it's very
fascinating how as we progress as a society and things
(30:19):
do get easier, like you said, we find these new
ways to be kind of self destructive is what it
feels like, totally.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
And that's where music, to me, is one of the
most important things out there, because music is the best
therapy there is and it's the one that thing that
binds us together, especially in the metal community. Okay, we're
one big family. There are no outsiders, there's no hate,
there's none of that crap, and you get to escape.
(30:47):
That's why sometimes I just wish some of these people
would just go experience a live show instead of filming
the whole thing, Like come over.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Watch it on YouTube. You're never even gonna watch it,
like these people that feel never even watch it, Like, right,
so you missed the whole show, the whole experience. For
what there's time since media, like I have to do
stuff like that. It's funny, like I'll take a picture
and then I'll pull my camera down. I'm like, man,
it looks so much cooler this way without the camera.
Speaker 5 (31:18):
Right, I always think that too. Anytime I like, you know,
take a picture of one of our shows and stuff,
I'm like the picture of Like, the picture looks cool,
but I remember the moment, and that moment was way
more fun than what this picture captures.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
You know.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
It's a nice reminder of it, but it doesn't It's
it's not the same as a real spirit attack tile
right in front of you. You're there getting blasted by
the speaker and the singer sweat hits you in the face.
It's just never going to be the same thing, right, I.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Haven't think about Moshpitz. Okay.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Back in the eighties, I'd go into Mashpitz, didn't worry
about nothing. Now when I go into Moshpitz, it's like here,
hold my phone, here hold this, you know, like and
it's like, man, it's kind of a pain in the
ass to go into marshpit now because I got all
this shit I gotta worry about where Then it was
just just jump in and not even think about it
(32:09):
and go for it anything. You didn't break anything and
lose anything, you know, you just had fun in the moment.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Yeah, And you know, one thing that's nice with a
lot of the shows we've been playing, I've definitely noticed
there's way more uptic I see of kids, younger people,
even adults and stuff. Depending on the shows, I'm noticing
a lot more people getting in there and like doing
(32:38):
their mosh thing and looking out for each other, but
like having a good time, and I have kind of
It's funny, I thought I felt the same kind of
things for a long time, Like I go to these
shows and no one's really that into it, or like
they are, but they're not into like moving around and yeah,
over the last couple of years, like especially around like
(32:58):
Alberta here where we're from, and like we've been into
Saskatchewan a little bit in BC, noticing way more people
are coming out to these shows and getting right in there,
and I like, I'm saying, I love to see it,
Like that's music's expression at the end of the day,
and getting out into the mosh pit and just flailing
doing what you gotta do and with all the homies
(33:19):
who are there to do the same thing. I mean,
that's it's one of the most raw, purest forms of expression.
I think you can get out there and it's super valuable,
and I think there are people who are thankfully who
are coming around and being like, no, I do want
that real experience at this show. I'm not going to
sit on my phone. I'm going to be mashing. I'm
going to be interacting with the band and other people.
And it's nice to see that that is at least
(33:41):
starting to happen. Hopefully we'll continue.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
What I think is cool. Okay, So back in my
gatekeeper days, okay, where it's like you could only mash
this bla lah bullshit, mashing is some of the best
therapy too. Like people think you go in people. Now, no,
you don't hurt main people in the out the outside world,
you know, like get all your ship out in the
(34:05):
pit and then you don't want to kick somebody's ass
in the real world totally. So like I've been to
like a Whiz Khalifa show and there were mash bits,
and if you caught me in my early days, I'd
be like, now that's stupid. And now I'm like, now
that's freaking cool, and you know what, go for it.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Genre youan mash, Yeah, freaking.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Mash feel the music out and express yourself. Oh yeah,
that's the.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Move and that's what we need nowadays. That is our
escape from all the bull crap in the world, especially
music like yours. Like that's why I love about the
psychedelic progressive part of the psychedelic progressive tech death because
the psychedelic progressive part is the one that makes your
(35:00):
drift away from everything.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
I completely agree, you know, you know space, yes, for sure,
and I mean that I'm I'm glad that it comes
off that way. You know, like that's definitely where my
mind sort of goes to too when working, especially in
that psychedelic progressive space. You know, it's trying to trying
(35:24):
to find something like especially for me with doing the
synth and stuff like that, I really like stuff like
sound and sound textures stuff to kind of like tickle
my brain, you know. I want that little bit of
like ooh ooh. So I'm glad that comes through because
that's definitely kind of what we're trying to go for,
something that kind of grabs you a little bit more
(35:46):
and gives you a little bit extra to chew on.
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Well, it's kind of like, okay, so you take Dark
Side of the Moon. Nobody's gonna just listen to a
couple of minutes of Dark side of the Moon. They're
gonna let's say, dark side of Boon and they're gonna
experience it and they're gonna go off into the never
never Land.
Speaker 6 (36:03):
Yes, right, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
I find that a lot with metal nowadays is there's
a lot of the very specific genres that they use
its formula and this is the way it needs to be,
And I'm like, no, the way it needs to be
is like I remember some of my favorite metal songs
were like, holy shit, where did that come from? Like,
(36:27):
all of a sudden in the miller's song, something happens
and you're like, I didn't expect that at all.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
Or you go back to a lot.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Of early metal where the intros would fool you like
fast as a Shark and battery and like you're like,
what the fuck is this and then all of a
sudden you're like whoa you know, and it catches you
by surprise. I don't think we have that much anymore.
Like people are in this track track track mentality. They
don't give that ten seconds to get into that.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
I could not agree more. And you know, for that's
that's a really big thing too, like working in in
that space that we do of of sort of you know,
the technical death metal. There's a lot of exactly what
you were just talking about out there in that space.
There's a lot of talented people and like everything in
it and totally but there's a lot of like I
(37:20):
feel like the tech death and death coore space right
now are kind of like this is what they are
and I need to now do this. Yeah, and it's
sort of like, uh, what the hell is happening here?
Can we do something unique? And so we've kind of
part in making that, you know, fake genre is part
(37:42):
of being like what are the things that influence us
and what can we draw from? And then how can
we take anything outside of that and make it feel
more metal?
Speaker 6 (37:51):
Right now?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Even take tech as a word in and of itself,
to me, it has two meanings. What meaning is you're
a really good freaking musician, Like you're technically a great musician.
It also tells me you're taking yourself way too seriously
because some of the best bands in the world screwedle true.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
True, I completely agree with that too. You cannot in
that space of like everything is I'm creating, you know,
I'm creating this art and it's oh, like, yeah, you
are and it's art and that's great and where but
we also are are doing music and music's about good
(38:35):
times and expression and feeling and feeling it. You know,
we don't have to get into this up tidy space
about it.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Well, think about too, some of the most talent and
most not talented but most well known musicians and well
known bands were not the most talented necessarily exactly, I
mean especially technically. Yes, one of my favorite bands, their
(39:04):
drummer gets a lot of shit from every other MU
musician on the face of the earth that he's like
the worst drummer ever, but they're still the biggest band
in the world. Like come on, that's kinda tell you so.
Or look at yeah, like Ozzie was all heart, you know,
(39:24):
that's what made the difference.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
And you just hit it right on the on the
head for me, because this is something we talk about
as a band too, and I think why why we
have been able to make some more kind of unique
sounding stuff and we're like I always try and push
the guys in myself to just be like, be unapologetically
(39:48):
authentic to who you are, because there you said it right,
Like you can get these musicians who maybe they're not
on paper the greatest musician you've ever heard, but they
their authentic them comes through their instrument or their voice
or whatever it is, and people go instantly, I am
(40:10):
on board with this. It could be the most you know,
on paper, worst singer, let's say, ever, but you know,
if they if they hit that doleful authentic and they
bring it out in a way that makes people feel
that that's that's it, you know, And for us, like
(40:31):
being in a you know, technical death metal band, that's
kind of the the balance we're trying to go for.
It's like, you know, we do want to write stuff
that has musicality to it and be able to use
that knowledge, but we also want it to feel like
it's something that comes from us and wasn't just the like,
oh I could switch this scale from mix alodianto blah
(40:53):
blah blah blah ooh and people will be like yay.
You know, like sometimes you hope, like music nerd people
pick up that kind of stuff right of course, Like,
but at the end of the day, it's like, I
just want something that feels authentically like us and represents
who we are to come out of us, because then
the people who are going to resonate with it. Are
the people you want to resonate with it, because.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
You're not going to please everybody in anything exactly, So
the first person you need to please is yourself and
then your tribe will follow.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
That is exactly, yes, one hundred percent. I'm a very
firm believer of that. Like, and you know, circling back
to what we were saying about, you know, things nowadays
the easy way, I also kind of feel like, you know,
we we could just shift into like a death core
tech death band, and maybe it would be easier for
(41:46):
more people to listen to us, maybe easier to play
more shows, go on the road, But would we feel
really good about it?
Speaker 6 (41:54):
Not really exactly.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Yeah, look at musicians in time that really they weren't
really happy with it, you know, And I think that's
the saddest thing, because if you're not having fun being
a musician, you're in the wrong industry because there ain't
nothing else fun about it than that part, you know.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Exactly. We're blessed in this industry that we get to
do something that has that air of fun and joy
in it, too, right, And yeah, we can't lose that
because we're so lucky to have that as musicians and
people in the music industry, like, not a lot of
people get that with what they're doing, you know, and
it's I think it's really important to stop and just
(42:38):
be like, man, this is so cool. I'm so lucky
to be doing this. It's amazing that people like this
song or came to this show, and like, you know,
you got to take those moments to stop and be like, wow,
this is fun and that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Well, even like when Rush changed course, a lot of
people gave them crap, but at the end of in
every interview I've ever seen or anything where they're talking
about they just did what they wanted to do exactly,
And to me, I'm the most.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
Respect for that totally.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
Because why not If you don't do what you want
to do, don't be a musician. That's what it's about.
I remember I was playing guitar. I tell his story
because it's funny, you know. I was playing guitar as
a teenager, and my dad's like.
Speaker 6 (43:30):
You should give that up, you suck. But he didn't
know what I was doing.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
I was bored to death with the scales bullshit, So
I just wanted to find out what sounds I could
make out of the guitar, Like I wasn't trying to
play something. I was trying to experiment to see what
I can make happen. And that's how you become iconic.
Like you take somebody like Tony Iomi. You know, he
(43:56):
created a whole genre by experimenting over something bad that
happened to him and.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
Switching gears exactly right. Yeah, the I think the experimentation
thing is so important to not being afraid to just
kind of try something out and throw some ideas at
the wall and some of them, like you know, some
of them aren't going to stick, but it's just the
trying to throw them out there, you know. Like again,
the playing it safe is is the easy way. Yeah,
(44:26):
sometimes it's more than it. It pays off better to
take a challenge, I think.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
And I think too, the whole Psychicaelic progressive part there
is all experimentation. I view both those ronros as experimentation,
like that's just there, like you're just creating this musical
journey and a lot of times you don't even know
(44:56):
where it's taking you as the musician. The song the post, oh.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Okay, I gotta do this at this time and this
at this time.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
And and it's so much more rewarding and exciting as
a musician. I feel too to be able to do that,
And like you said, even when you're on like that
journey that you don't even totally know, Like, that's a
very common thing when I sit down to like write
a lot of our synth and stuff. You know, sometimes
maybe I have an idea of something, but I always
(45:24):
try to do that. I try to sit down an
experiment and just see what kind of comes out, because
you might all of a sudden hit something you're like, wow,
I never thought I should. I mean, there's there's going
to be a song on our EP on Primitive Minds
that has this breakdown part with this one of my
favorite synth parts on it, and it was a total
saying exact thing. I'm sitting there kind of experimenting. I
(45:46):
had these ideas, and I'm like, this is not kind
of clicking where I want, you know, And I just
sort of sat back and then this idea sort of
hit me. I don't want to give away too much
because the song's going to come out so people get
to hear this, but this sort of idea hit me.
And I went, that would be really weird if I
could make this work. So I, you know, same thing,
(46:10):
experiment around with it a little bit, and I remember
sending it to the guys so nervously, right, I'm like, okay,
here's a bit of a swing. Tell me what you
guys think, honestly, right, And our guitar player, Scottie, all
he messaged back was oh my god, I got chills,
and that right there just went Okay, Yes, I have
(46:32):
to lean into doing the stuff that's more out there
and letting it happen, because that's where the money parts
are going to come from, right, Just that letting something
inside you come out that you don't necessarily know is there,
and then all of a sudden go, whoa, that's it.
It's it's beautiful. That's one of my favorite parts about writing.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
So that's where I think Sid Barrett was a genius
because he just was like putting shit into songs.
Speaker 6 (46:59):
That yeah, no way would put into songs.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
It was like, and they just work, and just work
so nicely.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
You know.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
That's always so amazing to me totally.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
So tell everybody how they can connect to you guys
on socials and how they can get a new EPs
when they drop and check out this new song that
you didn't give them the intel on.
Speaker 5 (47:22):
Absolutely So the new song is entitled Heliconian Oup Devisor.
It is going to be from our Primitive Minds EP,
which you can expect this fall. We'll have a data
announcement coming soon. So if you'd like to follow us,
you know we're on the usual suspects. You can get
us on Instagram at the Judge the Juror Official, Facebook
at the Judge the Juror YouTube dot com, slash at
(47:43):
the Judge the Juror Official. We also have a website
which is just the Judge the jur dot com. It'll
direct you to all our stuff there any other ones
I'm missing? Oh, band camp, you can find us on there.
If you'd like to purchase the new track, it's on
there on band camp. What is it the Judge the
jur dot bamcamp dot com. I believe?
Speaker 6 (48:03):
And yeah about how about MySpace? You know what?
Speaker 5 (48:08):
We should probably get back on my space. Someone once
told me, actually that we said. Someone told me one
time that the type of metal we do sounds like
the MySpace era of metal and looking at them being
like that makes sense because I basically grew up listening
to metal on MySpace.
Speaker 6 (48:24):
So yeah, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
How fi you would it be if like music like
bands start bringing back my space?
Speaker 5 (48:32):
We should do it. I think you're onto something here.
I'm gonna go maybe go do some research on it tonight.
Maybe I see if I can make them a sweet
deal or something.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Right, that would be so cool. But what's even cooler
is your music. So everybody's got to check you out,
and uh, it's definitely badass. And if you need to
escape the world, this is the music to do it with.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
That's where we're hoping to provide people with a little
reflection and a little escape all in one and some joy.
So thank you so much. Thank you to everybody who
goes and listens to it and has. So far, we've
been getting a lot of really good response, so thank
you all so much.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
Well, thank you for giving us great music, and thanks
for being on the Adventures of pipe Man.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
Oh I'm more than happy to be here. Pipe Man.
Thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure of
meeting here, and thanks for taking the time yourself. So
hopefully we'll get to do it again.
Speaker 6 (49:24):
Absolutely, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Likewise, my friend, take care.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Thank you so much, Thank you for listening to the
adventures of pipe Man. I'm w for CUI Radio.
Hey, you have done to censure.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm for wow for you you oh.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Your how you tell your lunch out? Saw you last
shot a shy?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
This is the pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe
Man W four C Y Radio, and I'm here with
the next guest that the has some badass music that
kind of kind of combines two of my personalities. Really yeah,
and you're gonna find out about why. So let's welcome
David from the Judge the juror.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Hello, folks, where'd the executioner go? We decided early on
to drop them?
Speaker 6 (01:24):
So now, oh yeah, I love it though.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
So the reason I said that is because when I
when I saw what they call your genre, okay, and
I hate genres because it just lumps artists into something.
And it's like I almost do this thing when I
go on tour and do interviews at festivals, like I
have bands, tell me what would your genre be? Because
(01:52):
it's pretty ridiculous nowadays, like the genres are so microscopic
that one band could fit into it.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
It becomes like a funny but.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yours I read as psychedelic, progressive tech.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Death nailed it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
And you know, I'm somebody that is both a metal head, well,
a metal head, a punk and hippie like dig psychedelic music.
I dig metal, I dig punk, I dig all kinds
of metal. I dig good musicianship. So your genre there
(02:34):
just fits everything.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
That'll end.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
It's it's kind of like if Possessed in the Grateful
Dead had a baby.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Oh now that's that's a pretty high high.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
So thank you, right, you know, because I have somebody
like back in the eighties. Yeah, ago on like Friday
night to go see a Slayer show and on Saturday
go to a Dead show.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Hell yeah, love that, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, it's like fuck the gatekeeper shit too. Music is music.
If you like music, you like music. I'm more of
a metal head than most anybody there is. It doesn't
mean I don't like other music.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I could not agree more. We're very much like that.
Like while we play in you know, kind of the
tech death space with that, we're very influenced by a
lot of other music that isn't metal, you know self,
especially with like the kind of electronic psychedelic side like
our our lead guitarists favorite band in the world is
Dance Gavin Dance. Now I'm kind of like, yeah, like
(03:38):
an emo alternative, you know, so very outside of what
we do, but that influence has definitely come into the
music as well. And I agree. I think like we're
blessed in the metal genre also that you can make
so many things metal, you know, yeah, it's it just
works so well. So it's just like what can we
just kind of throw together? And I love how you
(04:00):
said about the genretization of metal because you hit it
exactly on the head. So side deaf tech progue is
a term that we made up nice and you hit
it on the head exactly. Because originally the idea was
like all this genretization, there's so much of it, right,
(04:21):
and you go to a metal head man, you're like,
oh you like that band? I also like death metal,
and they're like, they're black and grind. So we thought
it like, we should have a genre that's super hyper
specific to help you. But but then it's also kind
of like a tongue in cheek zab at that exact thing,
(04:42):
you know. So I'm glad that you pick that up.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
I love it well.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
You know, what you just said reminds me because you know,
I come from the days of the eighties or the
gatekeeper bullshit. And I remember I was at a show.
It was Venom, Slayer.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
And Exodus, oh sh.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
And Kronos got into a fistfight with Tom.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Because he's like, you guys aren't black metal. We're black metal.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
It's like, come on, dude, Like, and in twenty twenty five,
Venom wouldn't even be considered black metal.
Speaker 6 (05:18):
It's it's funny. I thought it was so.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Like evil and dark and heavy and fast back then,
and now I listen to him, I'm like, man, it
sounds kind of poppy to me.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
It's amazing how things evolve right.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
Right totally, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And then, like I mentioned Possessed before, arguably the first
death metal band ever, and I can say that they
still stand up to most death metal today.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Oh, I would agree too. I'm a big fan of
a lot of the old school stuff too, and they're
up there for me as.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well, totally. And you know, let's talk about the progressive part.
To me, Rush has some metal songs, a lot of
metal songs before they put the synth in.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
It holy toly agree.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, Like I love Rush like to me, twenty one
to twelve is one of the most metal fucking songs
ever to me, like I remember lasting it through my guitar,
ample bar and freaking headbanging to to Temples of Searings
and shit.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Hell yeah. I also love Rush though, and I agree
it does have a more metal tinge to it than
I think people realize, because.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Most people don't know nowadays, don't know the old Rush
like they know post Moving Pictures, and I'm not a
big post Moving Pictures person.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Like, yes, there was quite a.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Away from them.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
You know, they're great artists, but like I like before that,
like I love the first album, I love Carressive Steel,
I love Permanent Waves and you know, yeah, like Moving Pictures.
Everybody that you know is the the popular Rush fan. No,
(07:11):
but I love all the shit before Moving Pictures man,
Hell yeah. And you're Canadian, so like you would get
to Canada if you didn't like Rush.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Well exactly, we can't claim to be any sort of
prog band and say we don't like Rush, so you
would never catch me doing that. Don't worry.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
There you go, there you go, So tell me about
I love the story of what you're doing, because I
think you can even add to that genre that you
made up and call yourselves like power psychedelic, progressive tech death.
You got that whole concept thing going on, and that's.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
Quote unquote the power metal thing.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, but I think concepts are great because listen to
a song an album. To me, it's no different than
a book and a chapter.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
Couldn't agree more with that either. Yeah, you're you're telling
people something, whether you're thinking about it conceptually or just
as a one off piece, right, You're you're conveying something
to people through what you're doing musically. So absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I love how you have this whole thing of you
already have everything set up. It's almost like the the
the chapters are set up between these EPs that you're
putting out, and so tell us a little bit about
the story of how they're all connected and why this
one goes now, this one goes then, and so forth
(08:47):
for sure.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
So so the three EPs are based around actually a quote.
The gentleman's name is, I believe it's Edward Oh Moro.
I hope I didn't get that wrong. Edward Oh, I
think Moro. I'll have to confirm that. I should know
it off the top of my head. I know that anyway,
he was quoted as saying it was in a discussion
(09:12):
where they were kind of philosophizing about, you know, the
modern state of us as humans and why we're kind
of feeling like things around us sort of are coming
to this weird crux that's a little bit scary, and
he he chalked it up to there's a reason that
humanity is sort of heading down this path, and he
(09:35):
labeled it as three different, three different pieces of the
human puzzle that we deal with right now that really
don't kind of drive together when you think about it.
And so what those are and the names of the
EPs are going to be primitive minds. We have the
basically the same brain we've had since we've you know,
stepped out of caves. We have these medieval institutions the
(09:57):
second EP name, so all these instanttions around us that
still operate in these old ways that don't really serve
us too well. And then the third one, the third EP,
will be called godlike technology. Now we have these bones
and everything in our pocket, and we have this level
of technology that's unlike anything we've ever seen. Is a
race and these three things kind of coming together. His
(10:21):
theory is that this is causing a lot of human
suffering right now. In our world, and I very much agree,
I very relate to that. So that's kind of what
we're trying to do with these EPs is so Primitive
Minds is going to be this first one. That's what
Heliconian Optiviser is going to be from, So it's going
to be sort of a dive into some of our
(10:43):
human primitive emotions and things like that that kind of
can betray us in our modern world. Next, in the
We're thinking Early you know, twenty twenty six, we'll be
looking at medieval institutions and same kind of thing, will
dive further into some of these ideas about what we
think these institutions are, how we feel like they're negatively
(11:06):
impacting it. And then eventually we'll do the godlike technology
section as well, and we're kind of planning to encapsulate
that whole idea, hopefully between all three of these songs
and sorry, pardon me, all three of these EPs, and
be able to kind of put them together in a
sort of vision of that statement.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
So that's pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It's like it's kind of like when you have, you know,
books and then the follow up book and then the
follow up book, and you know, when you said the technology.
Something really hit home for me because I am a techie,
always have been. But I also know, like I'm a
gen xer. I built this stupid shit we use now
(11:46):
like right, and and just like you see in the movies,
I'm kind of sorry that we did.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You know.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
It's like I told my daughter one day.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I was on the phone with my youngest daughter and
I was like, you know, some days I just want
to drive down the road and throw my laptop, my phone,
and my iPad out the window and keep driving.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
She goes dead, Who are you kidding? You're just as
addicted as everybody else.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I'm like, yeah, you're right, except I lived in time
when we didn't have any of it, and it was
a better time, you know. I remember when I was
learning programming languages to build all this technology, and the
talk was always how it's going to make our life
so much easier and blah blah blah blah blah bullshit.
Because I'm here now in it. Life ain't easier. It's
(12:42):
more stressful. This is why everybody has stress anxiety, because
there is no off switch gone.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
It's like, just you know, like you can.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
I have clients that text me at three am, Like
what happened to the day is when a business is
and you couldn't get a hold of them at three am,
you know, and it's like people just assume. Another thing
really bugs me is people, especially the people that are
not tech oriented, they assume that because we have this technology,
(13:13):
you have to use it all and use it all
at once, like zoom. I can't tell you how many
times I've had appointments with somebody that would take like
a thirty second phone call and they're like.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
Okay, well let me send you a zoom link.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I'm like, it would take you longer to send the
zoom link than to have the phone call just become
to the phone call me okay, And then you know,
there's so many things like that. It's like I have
clients that will text me to let me know that
they just emailed me, and then they'll Facebook message me
(13:49):
to tell me that they text me that they emailed me.
And I'm just like, listen, I use all the technology,
I only need one. Okay, if you send me an email,
I'll get a notification that email. I don't need a
text to tell me you sent me an email. Like,
what is the freaking point of that.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Yeah, I agreed.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I think that's the destruction in the world right there,
we're talking, we talk about apocalypse.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
I think that's the pop apocalypse.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
We're like, all I look outside the window of my
studio and I see people walking around on their phones
like we're in the zombie apocalypse. Like I've literally watched
somebody walk right into a cement pole because they're too
busy on their phone.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
It's so true. We're so addicted to it, right And
and I mean this circles back with this whole idea
of these these three concepts together, right, This this technology
and stuff with especially you know, the social media stuff
is what a lot of people are addicted to their
phones about. And these institutions we're kind of talking about,
you know, they're they're setting these up to hit your
(14:55):
primitive brain. They know exactly what they're doing doing this.
They know that that stimulus is something in our brain
that's still from our you know, days of being more
animalistic and not a society like we are now, and
they know how to hit it. And so that's exactly
that's why I think again, these all tie together, right,
It's it's yeah, it's all these combinations of what they're
(15:19):
doing and nefarious purposes behind it. Even the ones that
don't have necessarily a nefarious intent become nefarious, is what
it's seeming like, you know. So it's just it's a
very it's a bizarre time, you know. And like I'm
an I'm an older millennial, right, I was born in
eighty seven, so I at least too kind of had
(15:40):
a little bit of the the gift of mostly technology
free childhood. A lot of people my age kind of
that was us. It was more when we were in
like I remember kind of first really being on like
a computer doing anything close what we do now MSN Messenger,
like when I was in junior high, maybe maybe mid
(16:02):
junior high, you know, so I still got to have
that kind of childhood experience where we didn't have that.
And I think about I see like kids today with it,
and I can't even imagine what being a kid must
be like in this day and age with with it's crazy,
like totally just wild.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah, And you know, to your point, like my two
older kids, they're born eighty five, eighty six, Oh yeah, okay,
and I remember the day this happened. But so we
had cell phones, but as a parent, you didn't limb
have it all the time. They couldn't bring it to school,
(16:44):
or they didn't have one. Like my kids were going
to school and no, you can't have a cell phone. No. Yeah,
like they didn't even have one. And then one day
I remember so clearly dropping them off at school and
it was like, out of nowhere, every kid cell phone.
And now I'm like, oh, fuck, now I gotta buy
my kids a cell phone because they can't be the
(17:05):
only ones in school without a cell phone.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Right, And that's part of it too.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Right, you know, it's yeah, you got the pressure.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
And speaking of social media, same thing, Like social media
is not social, it's anti social, attacking, bullying, everything that
was the worst things about my childhood, it's now expanded
because of social media. Like I can't even imagine what
these kids have to go through. Because I had bullies
(17:36):
that waited for me when I was walking home from school,
I didn't have cyber bullies.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
That's like a whole nother realm right there.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, it's and it's unbelievable how the depths people will
go on online to do that kind of stuff. It's
pretty upsetting.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, I even okay, so like even now, the the
idea of a president of the United States of America
using social media to take jabs at people just blows
my mind.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
It just blows my mind.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
I don't care who the president is, anybody that would
do just that you could actually do. I don't even
think they should be able to use social media for
stuff like that in a sense that maybe that's old me,
maybe that's me be an old fashioned, but like, come on, man,
it's like you're bullying world leaders with your ex account.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Yeah, and that part that we don't need, right It's
like it'd be one thing if we as a species
could be responsible with some of these things. But I
don't think that, unfortunately, coming anytime soon.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
And so you know, yeah, I mean, what's next.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Like listen, in the eighties, I was like, the machines
are going to take over. Everything I remember from the
seventies and the eighties that was sci fi is now
real life or outdated. Like the idea of a flip
phone is now outdated. And I remember watching Star Trek
and going whoa, yeah, what it is or what we're
doing right now is also from Star Trek. You know,
(19:15):
it's like it's real life and you thought it was
something that could never happen, you know. And then now
you take movies like I Robot or other movies like that,
and we're living that now with the whole AI thing,
you know. Oh yeah, and here's one.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
How about this.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I don't know if you ever thought of this, but
I mean, have you ever seen the movie Demolition Man?
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Oh? I you know what's funny is I literally watched
it two three days ago.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Okay, tell me that's not COVID.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Oh you know what I I literally kind of had
that same thought of like, yeah, this kind of could
have definitely could have been what society became, you know, right,
it's quite wild.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Think about no exchange, bodily fluids and like the idea
of having sex the real way of put you know,
and an electrog and I think there's a lot of
times I do think that we are just being programmed
for all this, you know, everything that happens, Like listen,
(20:26):
I also gotta laugh at with the COVID thing. You
know that people were spreading this saying, oh no, I'm
not gonna get the shot because it's you know, they're
going to inject the five G chip.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
But they're posting this on Facebook, and I would tell these.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
People, I'm like, dude, you are using a five G
phone to post this. They don't need.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
To chip you.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
You are chipping yourself literally right right.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
It's like people don't some people don't get it. It's
like even with the AI thing, Okay, so AI is
really popular now, but guess who's training the AI?
Speaker 6 (21:10):
We are being being these companies.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Have no costs involved in the research and development because
we're it for free.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Exactly. Yeah, right, it's it tested on the public. Is
kind of what it feels like, right, no matter what
the consequences of that are, socially or otherwise. And that's
a scary. It is a scary kind of world to
live in when you just see it so blatantly. You know,
(21:41):
I think we all kind of know what you know,
corporate and larger scale interests think about uh, the average person.
But I feel like with some of this tech stuff,
it's it's even more blatant than before. You know, you
are our product. We have you, and we're gonna use
(22:01):
you as said product. And that's it's it's a scary
world to live in.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Well, here's the problem. There's two problems. One is I
tell this people all the time. Why do you think
they give us this stuff for free like you think
because right it isn't some altruistic thing. No, that's number one.
Number two okay, so hmm. You take the smartest minds
(22:30):
in the world. They're creating this technology. They can do
things that you can't even imagine they can do. It's like,
I remember you talk about, you know, my son in
the beginning of the internet, you know, and he was
on his computer, he was doing stuff. I'm like, listen,
you need to be careful because people can get into
(22:53):
your computer and steal your shit. He's like, you know,
and typical of your generation and further general rations. You know,
stuff just works. They don't realize like like that, yeah,
actual programming behind this that makes it work. It doesn't
just work. So I said to him, I'm like, hey,
(23:13):
I said. He said to me, ah, come on, you
know they get to oh really. And I called up
a friend of mine and I'm like, hey, do me
a favor. Can you go on my son's computer right
now and start deleting files? And then all of a sudden,
popping up deleted file, deleted. My son's asking me what's
(23:34):
going on? Oh that thing you told me can't be done.
It's being done right now. You just let me know
when you want it to stop.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
That's amazing, right, you know that's.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
Really the way to teach your kids because like.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, they don't get sometimes experience, right, You
got to you gotta see that it's going to happen,
because it's easy to be like, well, maybe it does,
but not to me or or no. And then when you're.
Speaker 6 (24:01):
Old, you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I love it when you're like in your twenties and
your kids call you old. That's that's something, right, It's
it's why. But what's even wilder is like, Okay, I
have grandkids now, and like they can they could do
stuff their parents can't do on technology for.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Sure, and with a question.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And they have that same attitude and I kind of laugh,
like they love me, and that's because I'm like the
cool grandpa that brings them to mosh pits and and
teaches them how to use this technology and stuff. And
they're like and their parents are like, yeah, they're too old.
My kids are too old for my grandkids.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
That's wild.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
It's just a it's a trip, man, And you know
there's good and bad, like they're definitely is than bad totally.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
It's made my life easier.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
I think it's made it where I could do something
like this instead of having to do an interview where
you come into the studio or what have you. Yeah,
that made it better. But the fact that you know,
you see kids nowadays more and more have been mental illness,
having anxiety, having panic attacks.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
Stress.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Man, they got plenty of years for that crap.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
That's totally it, right. It's it's like we, yes, we
definitely get some conveniences, some things that do make our
lives easier from this stuff. But at some point where
where it starts to come down to me is like
at some point we kind of have to ask ourselves
as a society like okay, sure, but what are we
willing to give up for this?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (25:49):
And I don't think that's always part of the conversation.
It's always oh, what's coming and what's coming. It's like,
but where we're going with this, something else is going
to have to give. It just can't become this and
and everything stay the same, you know, So it's like,
what are we willing to sacrifice here? And what's starting
to get sacrificed, is like what scares me about people,
(26:09):
you know, and where we're going.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I think humanity is getting sacrificed because.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
This is exactly it, our humanity. That's exactly the perfect
word for it, right, And I don't think we all
necessarily can see it.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You know, we don't see it because it's like anything
else in life, when you're in the thick of it,
you don't really know.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
It isn't until you look bad.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
And that's why when you're a kid and then you
become a parent, you start to understand your parents, you
know type of thing. And now I understand my dad
in the respect of, you know, my forty year old
son saying shit to me. I'm like, oh, now I
get it. Now, I get how I was an idiot
(26:53):
with my dad. And they think they all think, like,
you don't understand things, you haven't lived their life for whatever.
And I think of this, okay, with what we're talking about.
People in my grandparents' generation were like, oh, life was
better when we churned our own butter, when we did
(27:14):
stuff like that, And You're like, you're insane. Why would
I want to churn my own butter when I could
go to a star buy and now all the sickness
that we have physical and mental from all the garbage
that we consume in our body, and really we have
more stress doing it this so called easy way with
(27:38):
food then the old times when it was very simple times, Hey,
farm your farmland, churn your butter.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
But yeah, there was.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Family stuff going on. There was also the passing of generations.
You know. More and more nowadays, less kids are getting
involved in a family business, you know, yeah, and less
kids are having that you know, family mentality or care.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
You know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
We take these social media things and use them to
become antisocial, you know.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Yeah, it's amazing how the things. You know, something is
set up to be something and then it becomes the
antithesis of what it was meant to be. That's it
seems to be a common thread with us as people
sometimes too.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah, look at TikTok Okay. During COVID, TikTok was the
fun app. Everybody was getting off of Facebook as all
emotion and getting on TikTok because it was just fun.
And now TikTok is exactly what people ran away from,
like the same negativity. And that's the thing all this
technology has created way more negativity, not way more positivity.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Yeah, And I sometimes think that that's the right. Like,
you know, you're talking about the food analogy about how
you know, we have it easier, but then now with
getting food, but then you've traded all this stuff. I
think that's the perfect analogy for this too. Right, It's
like you are you are when we get when things
(29:13):
get easier, maybe it's easier for us in terms of
our existence and stuff, but I think as things get easier,
we're having a harder time, you know, keeping our brains
in a place that's reasonable. I think because things are
so easy, then it's like, well, you know, I don't
(29:34):
have to worry about my food, and I don't have
to worry if I'm going to get clean water, if
I have this and that I should go bitch at
somebody on the internet, right, And yeah, I think that's
part of it. Like we're very you know, we're very
fortunate in like our in society here, we we have
a lot, you know. And I think that exactly, Yeah,
(29:57):
that thing when it's this internet, So it's what we
were saying about the socialness of it, right, it's making
it so easy to be social via these things. That's
it's flipped into this anti social thing without kind of
right before our eyes, right, yeah, and yeah, it's very
fascinating how as we progress as a society and things
(30:19):
do get easier, like you said, we find these new
ways to be kind of self destructive is what it
feels like, totally.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
And that's where music, to me, is one of the
most important things out there, because music is the best
therapy there is and it's the one that thing that
binds us together, especially in the metal community. Okay, we're
one big family. There are no outsiders, there's no hate,
there's none of that crap, and you get to escape.
(30:47):
That's why sometimes I just wish some of these people
would just go experience a live show instead of filming
the whole thing, Like come over.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Watch it on YouTube. You're never even gonna watch it,
like these people that feel never even watch it, Like, right,
so you missed the whole show, the whole experience. For
what there's time since media, like I have to do
stuff like that. It's funny, like I'll take a picture
and then I'll pull my camera down. I'm like, man,
it looks so much cooler this way without the camera.
Speaker 5 (31:18):
Right, I always think that too. Anytime I like, you know,
take a picture of one of our shows and stuff,
I'm like the picture of Like, the picture looks cool,
but I remember the moment, and that moment was way
more fun than what this picture captures.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
You know.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
It's a nice reminder of it, but it doesn't It's
it's not the same as a real spirit attack tile
right in front of you. You're there getting blasted by
the speaker and the singer sweat hits you in the face.
It's just never going to be the same thing, right, I.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Haven't think about Moshpitz. Okay.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Back in the eighties, I'd go into Mashpitz, didn't worry
about nothing. Now when I go into Moshpitz, it's like here,
hold my phone, here hold this, you know, like and
it's like, man, it's kind of a pain in the
ass to go into marshpit now because I got all
this shit I gotta worry about where Then it was
just just jump in and not even think about it
(32:09):
and go for it anything. You didn't break anything and
lose anything, you know, you just had fun in the moment.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Yeah, And you know, one thing that's nice with a
lot of the shows we've been playing, I've definitely noticed
there's way more uptic I see of kids, younger people,
even adults and stuff. Depending on the shows, I'm noticing
a lot more people getting in there and like doing
(32:38):
their mosh thing and looking out for each other, but
like having a good time, and I have kind of
It's funny, I thought I felt the same kind of
things for a long time, Like I go to these
shows and no one's really that into it, or like
they are, but they're not into like moving around and yeah,
over the last couple of years, like especially around like
(32:58):
Alberta here where we're from, and like we've been into
Saskatchewan a little bit in BC, noticing way more people
are coming out to these shows and getting right in there,
and I like, I'm saying, I love to see it,
Like that's music's expression at the end of the day,
and getting out into the mosh pit and just flailing
doing what you gotta do and with all the homies
(33:19):
who are there to do the same thing. I mean,
that's it's one of the most raw, purest forms of expression.
I think you can get out there and it's super valuable,
and I think there are people who are thankfully who
are coming around and being like, no, I do want
that real experience at this show. I'm not going to
sit on my phone. I'm going to be mashing. I'm
going to be interacting with the band and other people.
And it's nice to see that that is at least
(33:41):
starting to happen. Hopefully we'll continue.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
What I think is cool. Okay, So back in my
gatekeeper days, okay, where it's like you could only mash
this bla lah bullshit, mashing is some of the best
therapy too. Like people think you go in people. Now, no,
you don't hurt main people in the out the outside world,
you know, like get all your ship out in the
(34:05):
pit and then you don't want to kick somebody's ass
in the real world totally. So like I've been to
like a Whiz Khalifa show and there were mash bits,
and if you caught me in my early days, I'd
be like, now that's stupid. And now I'm like, now
that's freaking cool, and you know what, go for it.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Genre youan mash, Yeah, freaking.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Mash feel the music out and express yourself. Oh yeah,
that's the.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Move and that's what we need nowadays. That is our
escape from all the bull crap in the world, especially
music like yours. Like that's why I love about the
psychedelic progressive part of the psychedelic progressive tech death because
the psychedelic progressive part is the one that makes your
(35:00):
drift away from everything.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
I completely agree, you know, you know space, yes, for sure,
and I mean that I'm I'm glad that it comes
off that way. You know, like that's definitely where my
mind sort of goes to too when working, especially in
that psychedelic progressive space. You know, it's trying to trying
(35:24):
to find something like especially for me with doing the
synth and stuff like that, I really like stuff like
sound and sound textures stuff to kind of like tickle
my brain, you know. I want that little bit of
like ooh ooh. So I'm glad that comes through because
that's definitely kind of what we're trying to go for,
something that kind of grabs you a little bit more
(35:46):
and gives you a little bit extra to chew on.
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Well, it's kind of like, okay, so you take Dark
Side of the Moon. Nobody's gonna just listen to a
couple of minutes of Dark side of the Moon. They're
gonna let's say, dark side of Boon and they're gonna
experience it and they're gonna go off into the never
never Land.
Speaker 6 (36:03):
Yes, right, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
I find that a lot with metal nowadays is there's
a lot of the very specific genres that they use
its formula and this is the way it needs to be,
And I'm like, no, the way it needs to be
is like I remember some of my favorite metal songs
were like, holy shit, where did that come from? Like,
(36:27):
all of a sudden in the miller's song, something happens
and you're like, I didn't expect that at all.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
Or you go back to a lot.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Of early metal where the intros would fool you like
fast as a Shark and battery and like you're like,
what the fuck is this and then all of a
sudden you're like whoa you know, and it catches you
by surprise. I don't think we have that much anymore.
Like people are in this track track track mentality. They
don't give that ten seconds to get into that.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
I could not agree more. And you know, for that's
that's a really big thing too, like working in in
that space that we do of of sort of you know,
the technical death metal. There's a lot of exactly what
you were just talking about out there in that space.
There's a lot of talented people and like everything in
it and totally but there's a lot of like I
(37:20):
feel like the tech death and death coore space right
now are kind of like this is what they are
and I need to now do this. Yeah, and it's
sort of like, uh, what the hell is happening here?
Can we do something unique? And so we've kind of
part in making that, you know, fake genre is part
(37:42):
of being like what are the things that influence us
and what can we draw from? And then how can
we take anything outside of that and make it feel
more metal?
Speaker 6 (37:51):
Right now?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Even take tech as a word in and of itself,
to me, it has two meanings. What meaning is you're
a really good freaking musician, Like you're technically a great musician.
It also tells me you're taking yourself way too seriously
because some of the best bands in the world screwedle true.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
True, I completely agree with that too. You cannot in
that space of like everything is I'm creating, you know,
I'm creating this art and it's oh, like, yeah, you
are and it's art and that's great and where but
we also are are doing music and music's about good
(38:35):
times and expression and feeling and feeling it. You know,
we don't have to get into this up tidy space
about it.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Well, think about too, some of the most talent and
most not talented but most well known musicians and well
known bands were not the most talented necessarily exactly, I
mean especially technically. Yes, one of my favorite bands, their
(39:04):
drummer gets a lot of shit from every other MU
musician on the face of the earth that he's like
the worst drummer ever, but they're still the biggest band
in the world. Like come on, that's kinda tell you so.
Or look at yeah, like Ozzie was all heart, you know,
(39:24):
that's what made the difference.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
And you just hit it right on the on the
head for me, because this is something we talk about
as a band too, and I think why why we
have been able to make some more kind of unique
sounding stuff and we're like I always try and push
the guys in myself to just be like, be unapologetically
(39:48):
authentic to who you are, because there you said it right,
Like you can get these musicians who maybe they're not
on paper the greatest musician you've ever heard, but they
their authentic them comes through their instrument or their voice
or whatever it is, and people go instantly, I am
(40:10):
on board with this. It could be the most you know,
on paper, worst singer, let's say, ever, but you know,
if they if they hit that doleful authentic and they
bring it out in a way that makes people feel
that that's that's it, you know, And for us, like
(40:31):
being in a you know, technical death metal band, that's
kind of the the balance we're trying to go for.
It's like, you know, we do want to write stuff
that has musicality to it and be able to use
that knowledge, but we also want it to feel like
it's something that comes from us and wasn't just the like,
oh I could switch this scale from mix alodianto blah
(40:53):
blah blah blah ooh and people will be like yay.
You know, like sometimes you hope, like music nerd people
pick up that kind of stuff right of course, Like,
but at the end of the day, it's like, I
just want something that feels authentically like us and represents
who we are to come out of us, because then
the people who are going to resonate with it. Are
the people you want to resonate with it, because.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
You're not going to please everybody in anything exactly, So
the first person you need to please is yourself and
then your tribe will follow.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
That is exactly, yes, one hundred percent. I'm a very
firm believer of that. Like, and you know, circling back
to what we were saying about, you know, things nowadays
the easy way, I also kind of feel like, you know,
we we could just shift into like a death core
tech death band, and maybe it would be easier for
(41:46):
more people to listen to us, maybe easier to play
more shows, go on the road, But would we feel
really good about it?
Speaker 6 (41:54):
Not really exactly.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Yeah, look at musicians in time that really they weren't
really happy with it, you know, And I think that's
the saddest thing, because if you're not having fun being
a musician, you're in the wrong industry because there ain't
nothing else fun about it than that part, you know.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Exactly. We're blessed in this industry that we get to
do something that has that air of fun and joy
in it, too, right, And yeah, we can't lose that
because we're so lucky to have that as musicians and
people in the music industry, like, not a lot of
people get that with what they're doing, you know, and
it's I think it's really important to stop and just
(42:38):
be like, man, this is so cool. I'm so lucky
to be doing this. It's amazing that people like this
song or came to this show, and like, you know,
you got to take those moments to stop and be like, wow,
this is fun and that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Well, even like when Rush changed course, a lot of
people gave them crap, but at the end of in
every interview I've ever seen or anything where they're talking
about they just did what they wanted to do exactly,
And to me, I'm the most.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
Respect for that totally.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
Because why not If you don't do what you want
to do, don't be a musician. That's what it's about.
I remember I was playing guitar. I tell his story
because it's funny, you know. I was playing guitar as
a teenager, and my dad's like.
Speaker 6 (43:30):
You should give that up, you suck. But he didn't
know what I was doing.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
I was bored to death with the scales bullshit, So
I just wanted to find out what sounds I could
make out of the guitar, Like I wasn't trying to
play something. I was trying to experiment to see what
I can make happen. And that's how you become iconic.
Like you take somebody like Tony Iomi. You know, he
(43:56):
created a whole genre by experimenting over something bad that
happened to him and.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
Switching gears exactly right. Yeah, the I think the experimentation
thing is so important to not being afraid to just
kind of try something out and throw some ideas at
the wall and some of them, like you know, some
of them aren't going to stick, but it's just the
trying to throw them out there, you know. Like again,
the playing it safe is is the easy way. Yeah,
(44:26):
sometimes it's more than it. It pays off better to
take a challenge, I think.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
And I think too, the whole Psychicaelic progressive part there
is all experimentation. I view both those ronros as experimentation,
like that's just there, like you're just creating this musical
journey and a lot of times you don't even know
(44:56):
where it's taking you as the musician. The song the post, oh.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Okay, I gotta do this at this time and this
at this time.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
And and it's so much more rewarding and exciting as
a musician. I feel too to be able to do that,
And like you said, even when you're on like that
journey that you don't even totally know, Like, that's a
very common thing when I sit down to like write
a lot of our synth and stuff. You know, sometimes
maybe I have an idea of something, but I always
(45:24):
try to do that. I try to sit down an
experiment and just see what kind of comes out, because
you might all of a sudden hit something you're like, wow,
I never thought I should. I mean, there's there's going
to be a song on our EP on Primitive Minds
that has this breakdown part with this one of my
favorite synth parts on it, and it was a total
saying exact thing. I'm sitting there kind of experimenting. I
(45:46):
had these ideas, and I'm like, this is not kind
of clicking where I want, you know, And I just
sort of sat back and then this idea sort of
hit me. I don't want to give away too much
because the song's going to come out so people get
to hear this, but this sort of idea hit me.
And I went, that would be really weird if I
could make this work. So I, you know, same thing,
(46:10):
experiment around with it a little bit, and I remember
sending it to the guys so nervously, right, I'm like, okay,
here's a bit of a swing. Tell me what you
guys think, honestly, right, And our guitar player, Scottie, all
he messaged back was oh my god, I got chills,
and that right there just went Okay, Yes, I have
(46:32):
to lean into doing the stuff that's more out there
and letting it happen, because that's where the money parts
are going to come from, right, Just that letting something
inside you come out that you don't necessarily know is there,
and then all of a sudden go, whoa, that's it.
It's it's beautiful. That's one of my favorite parts about writing.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
So that's where I think Sid Barrett was a genius
because he just was like putting shit into songs.
Speaker 6 (46:59):
That yeah, no way would put into songs.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
It was like, and they just work, and just work
so nicely.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
You know.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
That's always so amazing to me totally.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
So tell everybody how they can connect to you guys
on socials and how they can get a new EPs
when they drop and check out this new song that
you didn't give them the intel on.
Speaker 5 (47:22):
Absolutely So the new song is entitled Heliconian Oup Devisor.
It is going to be from our Primitive Minds EP,
which you can expect this fall. We'll have a data
announcement coming soon. So if you'd like to follow us,
you know we're on the usual suspects. You can get
us on Instagram at the Judge the Juror Official, Facebook
at the Judge the Juror YouTube dot com, slash at
(47:43):
the Judge the Juror Official. We also have a website
which is just the Judge the jur dot com. It'll
direct you to all our stuff there any other ones
I'm missing? Oh, band camp, you can find us on there.
If you'd like to purchase the new track, it's on
there on band camp. What is it the Judge the
jur dot bamcamp dot com. I believe?
Speaker 6 (48:03):
And yeah about how about MySpace? You know what?
Speaker 5 (48:08):
We should probably get back on my space. Someone once
told me, actually that we said. Someone told me one
time that the type of metal we do sounds like
the MySpace era of metal and looking at them being
like that makes sense because I basically grew up listening
to metal on MySpace.
Speaker 6 (48:24):
So yeah, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
How fi you would it be if like music like
bands start bringing back my space?
Speaker 5 (48:32):
We should do it. I think you're onto something here.
I'm gonna go maybe go do some research on it tonight.
Maybe I see if I can make them a sweet
deal or something.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Right, that would be so cool. But what's even cooler
is your music. So everybody's got to check you out,
and uh, it's definitely badass. And if you need to
escape the world, this is the music to do it with.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
That's where we're hoping to provide people with a little
reflection and a little escape all in one and some joy.
So thank you so much. Thank you to everybody who
goes and listens to it and has. So far, we've
been getting a lot of really good response, so thank
you all so much.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
Well, thank you for giving us great music, and thanks
for being on the Adventures of pipe Man.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
Oh I'm more than happy to be here. Pipe Man.
Thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure of
meeting here, and thanks for taking the time yourself. So
hopefully we'll get to do it again.
Speaker 6 (49:24):
Absolutely, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Likewise, my friend, take care.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Thank you so much, Thank you for listening to the
adventures of pipe Man. I'm w for CUI Radio.
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