October 29, 2023 • 53 mins
Join Dr. Lewis in a conversation with Dr. Nicole A. Bryan. Dr. Bryan is a certified leadership career coach, organizational consultant, and psychotherapist, with 25+ years of experience helping women define their own success, lead confidently, expertly navigate company politics, and secure their executive seat to maximize their income, influence, and impact. Email: team@thechangedoc.com Website: www.thechangedoc.com
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Success 4 Women is broadcast live Thursdays at 2PM ET.
Success 4 Women TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Success 4 Women Radio Show is broadcast on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Success 4 Women Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-4-women--3126970/support.
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The topics and opinions expressed on thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
and their guests, and not thoseof W four WN Radio It's employees or
affiliates. We make no recommendations orendorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or onour web. No liability, explicit or
implied shall be extended to W fourWN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any
questions or comment should be directed tothose show hosts. Thank you for choosing
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W four WN Radio. I gotthe OFT's and did you know women represent
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just three percent of Fortune five hundredCEOs and less than fifteen of corporate executives
at top companies worldwide. Have youwondered what the secrets are to getting into
the top ranks, whether in theprivate or public sector. Do you want
to figure out how to stop beingheld back in your career? Are passed
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over for promotion, then you're inthe right place. Hi. I'm doctor
Mattlanann Lewis, President and CEO ofthe Executive Women's Success Institute. I have
decades of experience in the military,the federal government, and corporate America,
and my mission is to help womensucceed and tap into their full potential.
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I want to reach a million pluswomen around the world to become the leaders
they are meant to be. Soif you want to move into a management
or executive level position, or maybeyou are a female veteran transitioning out of
the military into business entrepreneurship, thenreach out to the Executive Women's Success Institute
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at three zero one six nine threethree two eight four let us get you
on the fast track to success.Well. Hello, and welcome to the
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Success for Women's Show, where youcan view us on Talk for TV and
listen to us on the Women forWomen Network. I am doctor Madeline Ann
Lewis your host, and my missionis to help women accelerate the path to
success. Well. Today's topic isthe Change Doc and my guest is doctor
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Nicole A. Brian. Let mejust give you a little background on doctor
Brian. Doctor Nicole A. Brianis a certified leadership career coach, organizational
consultant, and psychotherapists with twenty fiveplus years experience helping women define their own
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success, lead with confidence, expertlynavigate company politics, and secure their executive
seat to maximize their income influence andimpact. Doctor Brian's clients and their results
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span several industries, including the healthcareindustry, technology, communications, financial services,
consumer goods, and education. She'sher world class programs at the Change
doc LLC integrate psychology, key businessprinciples, organizational behavior, and decades of
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real world experience as a core executiveto empower women to make a difference,
lead Boulder, and create positive,positive change for themselves, their teams,
and the world. I'd like tointroduce to all of you, doctor Nicole
A. Brian. Welcome to thesea so much, Thank you so much.
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It's good to have you here.Actually, we just found out we're
in the same Neckati Woods. Sothat's great, right there. Uh to
be able to have a conversation withsomeone that's just almost right across the street
from me. Okay, yes,yes, absolutely, Oh I know,
so tell me. I usually readthe standard bio on my guests, but
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then I'd like to us my guest, to just tell us what you want
us to know about doctor Nicole A. Brian. Wow, that's such as
it's a broad question. I wishI could tell my whole story from beginning
to end, but I think whatI would want everyone to know. Are
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a couple of things. One iswhat you already stated, but I probably
could state it much simpler and saythat my work is to help women get
into the executive suite so to achievetheir executive level goals and succeed once they
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get there. So that's probably thesimplest way to put it. I would
also say that for me, it'sall about access. I think, you
know, given women people of color, we have not always had access to
do the things that we know wecan do, and so part of my
mission is ensuring that those of uswho are ready and able to serve at
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that level have the ability to doso and get the opportunity to do so.
So that's that's what I would say, Absolutely sounds good. That's always
my mission to to get them there. So tell us, you know,
tell us a little bit about whatled you to even get into a career,
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coach, and especially with on theexecutive level. Sure, So I
am originally from well, I willsay, I represent usually my two countries
or my country and my city.I would say, so Barbados is where
my parents are from. So Iam a child of immigrants who and I
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say that that's an important part ofmy story. One just to demonstrate the
drive. I think any children ofimmigrants would be able to relate to that.
But then two, I didn't growup in a community where having a
corporate career was even a thing,and so probably like many of your views,
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I was the first first person inmy family, and in many cases
the first person even when I gotinto a corporate environment, the first person
of color, the first female onthe team. And so it became my
mission even then, you know,to just help other women who might have
been starting out their careers, justas a you know, a peer,
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as a you know, a soundingboard. And I think throughout my career
I got so passionate about it thatwhat very quickly realized was that all of
the important decisions, all of thethings from what the company might be doing
in the next year, two years, ten years from now, as well
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as you've been simple things like whatwe might have in the cafeteria, the
corporate cafeteria, those decisions were beingmade at the executive level. And when
there wasn't representation from women or peopleof color in those discussions, we felt
it in the corporate ranks, right, and so it became it was you
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know, it became very easy forme to understand and to see that without
us being a part of those dialogues, that nothing was going to change.
Uh. And so I have madeit my mission to be to focus at
that level, not that you knowthere. I think people all along the
career path need help and support.There was a time where people we wouldn't
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reach out for help and support that, but I think now that we are
normalizing the fact that getting support inwhatever way that you can get it,
whether it be a mentor or apeer, or a formal coach or your
boss, regardless of what that helpedwould look like. Now it's more it's
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more normalized to do that, whichis why I kind of set up my
business to help women in particular atthat executive level, because every decision that
gets made there has a downstream effectinto everything else that we all experience in
those workplaces. Absolutely, Now,the majority of your clients they are women?
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Or do you have a mixture ofboth men and women? So I
do? I do the majority,vast majority of my clients are in fact
women. I do serve. Everyonce in a while, I will serve
or help a man who might bea man of color, but the ninety
is women. Yeah, absolutely,I understand. I can definitely relate to
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what you're saying because when I wascoming through, especially in my career,
you know, I always say,you never know who's watching you, because
as I was, you know,moving up in my career, I had
women coming to me wanting to know, well, how did you do that?
How did you get this promotion?You know, you know, and
so they wanted me to look attheir resumes and different things like that,
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and that's how you realize, youknow, you know that the women are
there, but sometimes I guess youdon't realize until you actually start to focus
that they're really not progressing the waysay the men are progressing. How they
tend seem to move their careers justtend to just you know, just keep
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moving, and the women sometimes theyjust get stuck and a lot of times
they just can't figure out what's goingon. What do I need to do
to get from point A to pointB? And so I think, you
know, I definitely kudos to you, because anyone who's trying to get women
up that career ladder is always oneof my favorite people. So you know,
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I love what you're doing absolutely,So tell us what do you think
or what have you seen has beenor maybe has been your biggest challenge in
helping your clients to move forward intheir careers. So the things that I
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really focused on help my clients withare things that I personally experienced coming through
the ranks, things that my peershave experienced, and frankly, things that
are still exists, right. Andso one thing that I will always acknowledge
is there are systemic issues and challengesthat prevent women from accelerating in their careers
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and achieving the career goals that theyhave for themselves. So I never want
to discount that the things that Iwork with women on is acknowledging that those
things exist and then so what arewe going to do about them? And
one of the things one of thereasons why you know, I coined myself
the change doc is because I recognizethat change has to happen at a systemic
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level as well as at the individuallevel. And so to answer your question,
some of the common patterns that Isee women experiencing even today is having
to deal with those biases, thesethose systemic biases that they encounter. So
that's that's one. The second ishaving a brand. So we I think
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many of us now talk about personalbrands a lot. We obviously know about
company brands. But one thing thatleaders that I tend to work with don't
know a lot about is their leadershipbrand. And that's just essentially the combination
of your personal brand and your leadershipstyle and how that how people see that,
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how they engage with you around thosetwo things. So I work with
them on their leadership brand number butthat's number one. Another thing that we
focus on is their level of visibility. And so in a to the point
that you just made, doctor Lewis, in terms of when women were,
you know, women were coming toyou of their own accord to kind of
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get your help and your advice onhow to move forward. That's because from
their vantage point, you were visible. They knew about you, they heard
about you, they they knew aboutyour reputation, and so they came to
you. What I'm finding is manyof the women that I work with,
the decision makers in the organization,don't know who they are. They don't
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know what they what they can contribute, They don't know their backgrounds, and
so they so many of us womenare working hard. I mean, we
are killing every day on the job. But maybe our boss knows and maybe
our colleagues know, but the decisionmaker, who's who is deciding what our
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merit increase will be or what bonuswe will get or don't get, they
don't know. So that visibility orlack of visibility is another area that is
common that I think women women findthemselves in. And then the third is
more of a something that we cancontrol more so, and that's about advocating
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for ourselves. So a lot ofthe discourse these days is about, you
know, women being more confident.I'm finding that women are pretty confident,
but in terms of what they dowith that confidence in the workplace is a
whole nother story. And so Itend to help my women leaders. I
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tend to help them with figuring outwhen and how to advocate for themselves for
whatever it is that they want.It might be a promotion, it might
be the new project that's coming on. It might be they want to,
you know, lead a different teamor work with this you know, high
profile client or customer, whatever itis. But being comfortable enough to make
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that ask and make the ask ina way that is showcasing your ability to
do more for the organization and foryourself. But those are some of the
themes that I'm seeing. Yeah,wow, you know that that is so
interesting because I do remember, likelike I said, with the women coming
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to me, and I didn't realizeanyone was looking at me or who you
know who was looking at me,but I do I always felt like,
and this is uh And I don'tknow if you do this, but I
tell women that no one is responsiblefor your career but you. And so
sometimes you have to put yourself outthere. You have to take you know,
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maybe take on something like you said, to make yourself visible that nobody
else may want. You know,that may that may be a time and
everybody's like backing away from and that'sthe one maybe that you should take so
that you could put yourself on theforefront. I remember when I was working
for one organization and I saw ontheir website that they had a recruitment team,
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and so I got on the recruitmentteam. And that provided an opportunity
where I was representing the organization andI was going out to different colleges and
everything to you know, recruit otherindividuals to come in but that also gives
you an opportunity to see how theorganization works, sometimes on the back end,
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to see what's going on. AndI even had some women that come
to me and wanted to know,well, how did you do that?
We didn't even know you had thatwe had a recruitment team. But like,
okay, you're working for an organizationand sometimes you have to do your
research. I mean, it's rightthere, it was on the website.
It wasn't like they were hiding itor anything, but that you wouldn't believe
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some of the people didn't even knowthat they literally had a recruitment team that
they would put people together just togo out and do that. And from
that it was almost like a coupleother things just you know, kind of
came about because you step into onething sometimes that provide other, you know,
avenues for you. And that's whyI always tell women, don't be
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afraid to toot your own horn.If you know how to do something,
don't sit there and pretend that youdon't know how to do it. You
know, let them know, Hey, do this, Yeah, I'm capable
of doing it, So I seewhat you're saying. I mean, it's
sometimes I think you know. Anotherthing that kind of gets me a little
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upset is that when women get complacentin where they are, what they're doing,
and because they feel like okay,especially in the federal government where they
have the GS levels, and theyfeel like, oh, well, my
position goes up to you know,seven, ninet eleven, whatever, and
once they get to hit that,they just feel like it's automatic. Well,
i'm a seven, now I'm goingto a nine. I'm a nine
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now I'm going to But that's notautomatic because if you haven't or put you
like you said, put yourself outthere, be visible so that they could
see that you're working at the nextlevel, you're capable of handling the next
level. They don't have to giveit to you just because that's you know,
you're in that position that says itgoes up to that level. So
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you know, once you hit thatfifteen and the next level is executive status,
then you definitely have to make surethat you're visible. You definitely have
to take on more to put yourselfout there because once you're at that level,
at that point, you're you're goingto be representing the organization, so
they need to know that you'll speakup that you will be capable of going
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out there and talking for the organization. So absolutely. Yeah. It's so
interesting because so as you were justdescribing that, I had tons of thoughts,
but one was this sense of entitlement, right, and the sense of
entitlement and that we hate to seeit in other people, right, we
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don't. We doesn't matter where youcome from. You hate to see someone
else thinking that they can be ordo or get something just on the basis
of what they might have done tenyears ago. But we sometimes find ourselves
in that situation ourselves, but wecan't see it in ourselves, right.
So I think that's one of thebenefits of having a coach or having a
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mentor who is willing to challenge youand make you hold the mirror up and
make you think a little bit differently. So that's one thing I was That's
one thought that came through my mind. The other thought that came to my
mind was the concept of hitting aglass ceiling. And that's that's really the
women that I work with. Whenwomen who are high achievers, highly motivated,
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but for some reason they get toa certain level, whether it be
gs six, yes, seven,or they get to you know, a
assistant vice president in their organization manageror whatever, and they can't seem to
get past that. Right, They'vedone all the things that they want to
do and they just can't seem toget past that. That's when I will
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come in and ask the question,is it you, Is it what you're
doing that you can can get pastthat, or is it those systemic issues
that are preventing you from getting pastthat. And again, when you're when
you're navigating it on your own,you just know you can't get past It's
hard to determine what the actual causeis. And so what you will find,
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and I'm sure you find this aswell with your clients, is that
people just start trying to work harder, they work more hours, They you
know, try to take on everyproject they can get their hands on.
But a year later, they stillhave not been able to move past whatever
level that they're their past. Andso for me, it's really about understanding
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what's truly holding you back, whichagain it's hard to do when you're in
it every day, it's really hardto see. So understanding what's truly holding
you back and being strategic about howyou get yourself out of that. I'm
stressing that word strategic, and Irealize that in some environments it's a buzzword.
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But what I find is so manyof us women are strategic about everything
else. We are strategic about whatwe do on the job. We're strategic
about how we manage our households,We're strategic about all these other things,
taking care of our parents, takingcare of our kids. But when it
comes to managing our own career trajectory, somehow we lose that strategic approach.
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And so that's another thing that andbeing strategic isn't just about planning. It's
truly being about and if anybody's familiarwith all the old school video games like
the pac Man and the you usedto have to know, Okay, that
path is going this way, themonsters are coming from here. I'm going
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to take this alternate route, andif I see someone the monster coming right
like you have to be strategic isabout thinking about all the different external pressures,
the internal pressures, making alternative plansand directions that you can take,
how you can navigate differently that beforeyou find yourself in those troubling situations.
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And so that's you ask me aboutpatterns that I'm seeing these days with the
women that I work with. That'sprobably another significant pattern that I'm encountering is
that we are not leveraging our strategicthinking skills for growing our own careers.
Absolutely. Wow, yeah, wow, Yeah, you're absolutely right about that.
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And I like the analogy which yousaid about the pac man because it
does come from you know, sometimesin all directions, you never know where
it's going to come from. Soyou have to be able to sort of
think fast and move on your feet, so to speak. You know,
you just you know, you can'tbe uh small mind that are small not
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maybe not small minded, small thinkingin in your decisions. Uh, but
absolutely when you make that decision,you definitely have to own up to it,
you know, when you uh,whatever that decision may be. But
yeah, that's a good analogy usingthe pack band, and uh, I
know we're gonna we can see thoseyes, women like yeah, I remember
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that the blue monster the teeth comingat you. Yeah yeah wow. Okay,
So tell us now we talked aboutthe career moving in our careers,
but what are some obstacles facing uhwomen, I, especially since the pandemic,
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do you see a lot of changethat they need to to make especially
with their careers or to move theircareers forward. And I say that because
of the long span that they wereworking from home and maybe feeling now because
they were working from home and maybenot as visible or not maybe not being
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able to be as visible. Whatkind of challenges do you think they'll face
now to start getting that career backon track. Yeah, so I have,
so I think and I believe thatthe data actually does show this already.
Where I mean, frankly, youknow, women were unrepresented at the
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senior levels of the organization pre pandemic. We have kind of hit a plateau
for lack of a better word,that we were talking about plateaus and careers.
But as a you know, asa universal system, women's career growth
have plateaued as since the pandemic.And one of the reasons it has been
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because of remote work. Right,So, what I'm finding with my clients
is that many of them prefer remotework, Yeah, vastly right. They
do not want to go back inthe office at all, or not even
on a hybrid situation and what thatAnd that's fine, Like I totally get
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it. So what that means though, however, particularly as you move more
into more senior leadership roles. Companiesdo need and want more senior leaders to
be present in the actual af physicaloffice environment. And so what I'm finding
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is women are self selecting out.It's another reason women will self select out
because they do not want to havethey need the flexibility to take care of
what's going at home, personal preference, you know, whatever it is.
They're not willing to take on theroles that require them to go into the
office, even on a part timebasis, and so that's shrinking the number
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of opportunities that are available to themto move up into their in their own
companies or even in other companies.So we are definitely seeing that some women
are having to face that choice,right, and some women are thinking ahead
of time and say, Okay,if I have to make that choice,
then I'm going to opt out.Right. The other thing that I'm seeing
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is that it is hard for womento connect or stay connected. We have
to work extra harder to remain connectedwhen we are working remote again remote on
a full time basis or on apart time basis. So the zoom meetings,
you know, is when they getthis FaceTime with their teams and with
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other leaders within the organization, butthey're not able to necessarily network, they're
not able to necessarily deepen the relationshipsthat they might have, and that is
playing a role because cognizantly or youknow, not people when people are making
decisions about who's getting promoted or who'sgoing to get assigned that special project,
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they are basing it on what theyknow and existing relationships that they have with
their their workforce. And so itmight not be a blatant, you know,
exclusion from that pool of people,but we need the data does show
that women are being excluded and they'rethey're they're missing out on opportunities, and
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it's one of the reasons is becausewe're not being able to connect in in
the same manner that we used tobe able to connect in pre pandemic.
Right, absolutely, you're absolutely rightabout that. And and you know,
with a lot of people, likeyou said, said not wanting to go
back into the office, and evensome of them don't even want to,
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like you said, do the hybrid, you know, to maybe three days
a week. They some of themdon't even want to do that because I
guess being out so long and changingtheir whole routine and lifestyle now they want
to continue to keep it the wayit is, but it does, as
you say, make it harder forthem to in some cases, remain visible
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and to showcase a lot of timeswhat they can do. They really,
you know, have to kind ofput forth an effort now, especially if
they're working from home all the time. And like you say, senior leadership.
And that's another question I had withthe challenges that they're facing as leaders,
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especially females, you know, femalesleaders that they have to face since
the pandemic, because how do youyou kind of handle that you have these
people, all these people that areat home and I'm going to the office
every day, but I'm still supervisinga whole lot of people that are at
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home. So how is that goingto affect my work? You know as
the leader of all these people becausenow they're looking at me, well,
you can't get any of them tocome into the office. So you know,
it's that also becomes a challenge forlike you say, as a female
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leader, if you know, howdo you handle that? What do you
do? I mean, that's gotto be frustrating too, because you understand
why they want to stay home,but you also you're probably getting a little
pressure from the top, you knowthat you need to bring some of them
or maybe all of them in fora certain amount of time to come into
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the brick and mortar to be there, you know. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, the one thing I willso so that's absolutely true. I think
the one thing I will say aboutabout that is and my clients hate when
I say this, but some ofsome of our viewers will hate when I
say this too, But it's theabsolute truth. Right. So we all
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know the the people who you know, we all have worked with someone at
some point in time where we're like, how did they get that job?
Like? What did they do tolike because I know what they actually do,
yes, but somehow they've gotten thisrole and people believe the height that
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they are like really good. Right, we all have worked with that person
before, right, and there's areason why that is, right, So
we know behind the scenes that theymay not be a you know, a
good uh. They may not bethe best expert in their field. You
know, they may not be youknow, the top leader in the you
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know, in the amongst our colleagues, but they're doing something right right,
and in that something right, theyhave convinced their brand. The brand that
they have has convinced the senior leadersto see them in a way where they
continue to get rewarded. What Isay to my uh, and that's it's
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just part of the right, it'sjust part of the ecosystem that we all
find ourselves in. What I tellmy clients is it's not enough for you
to work hard. Yes, whatpeople are seeing, well, how they
view you. Not gonna say whatyou think about yourself. What do you
think about yourself is one thing,but what everybody else views you as,
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what they see, what they believe. You actually have control over that.
You do have control over that.But we get so into putting our heads
down, working hard, getting thejob done. We work on the job.
We don't work on our careers,right, so we work in the
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job, but we do not workon our careers. And you probably seem
to be getting animated here. Butbecause this is such a big point,
particularly for women, particularly for womenof color, we're so into we got
to get we have to be thebest at what we do, and we
do. But if other people don'tsee that we are the best, and
other people don't know that what weare delivering, then us being the best
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at what we do is only goingto get us so far. And what
John is doing right, and he'snot the best at what he does,
but he is working and making surethat other people view him as that.
He's leveraging his team to build himup. He's putting himself in those communes
he's making and put himself in thoseconversations where he's talking to the clients like
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he has found a way to havethis image of himself projected in the organization
where when people here whatever, theythink, Okay, John, because John
told me he was good he deliveredthis for the client, or John said
he was X, Y and Z. We do, there's no doubt about
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it. Will tell my clients tillthey their ears won't hear me anymore.
We as women have to deliver thegoods. We have to be great.
Oh yeah, But on top ofthat, you have to make sure other
people know how great we are.And that's where we miss the boat,
and that's where other people. Peopledo it very well. They may not
(34:49):
be do the great part very well, but they do the other part very
well. And that's what recognized andrewarded. While we're still fighting for the
scraps of what we need to have. It's an unpopular I know, we
don't like to talk about that veryoften, but it's the truth of working
within any type of middle to largeenvironment. The truth of the matter is
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women are not represented at the top. The top is highly dominated by men.
And when it's highly dominated by men, then we are still going to
feel we are still feeling the effectsof that and all the decision making included
who gets promoted to the next tothe next generation of executives. Absolutely,
you're absolutely correct about that, andit's it's it's it's very true, it
(35:43):
really is. So tell me whatdo you think or what are some ways
do you think that women can seekout new career opportunities, especially with the
job market seemingly unpredictable right now.Yeah. So, the one thing that
(36:05):
the I specialize and I'm glad youasked this question, doctor lewis because the
thing that I specialize in is notjust helping women get into the executive levels,
but to help women get into theexecutive levels without having to leave their
organization. I fully support people leavein the organization if you if you want
to go and do something new,or you know you've done everything you can
(36:28):
do within an organization. You wantto go, I say go, and
I'll hope you get there. Butit's not the only way, particularly when
you move when you're moving into thesenior leadership ranks. The data again,
data clearly shows that when you're whenyou move into that VP level of an
organization, you are more likely toget promoted in the organization that you are
(36:53):
in versus having to leave and gosomewhere else. When you're trying to get
to the senior VP executive EP level, you are likely going to your your
chances are better if you stay inthe organization that you are in, right,
Okay, So if you want toif you want to go, go,
But if you want to stay there, there are things that you can
(37:15):
do to be able to move upwithout necessarily having to leave the company.
And to answer your question, whatare some of the things that people can
do to get new job opportunities?Particularly and we are recession bound, let's
just say right where the economy isis contracting versus expanding at this point in
(37:38):
time. And so what I wouldsay is to anyone who is trying to
move up in their organization, toexcuse me, move up to the next
level of their career. I wouldsay, don't necessarily put yourself out on
the market yet until you've explored everythingyou need to explore within unless you're unless
your environment is toxic. If it'stoxic, you don't have to talk about
(38:00):
it anymore. Get out and don'teven look back. Absolutely. But if
your if your organization is not toxic, and you've had if you've built a
good care you spent time contributing tothat organization, You've given it all of
your energy for the past few years, you have a great internal network there,
then I say, continue to investin the investment that you've already made.
(38:24):
The things that will help you movethe needle and expand your career opportunities
even within your company. Is tothink about expanding your career in different ways.
It doesn't Expanding your career doesn't necessarilyonly meant getting a promotion in that
(38:45):
moment in time. Some of myclients want to expand their careers. Some
of them are looking for career changechanges, and so what I will do
is help them talk to and otherpeople within their organization in the new discipline
that they want to get into.Right, So, I have a woman
who it has a fifteen year careerin human resources. She's interested actually in
(39:09):
doing some marketing, and so I'vehad her go and talk to the head
of marketing and a couple of acouple of other people in the marketing department,
one to truly understand is marketing reallywhat I want to do? And
two to see if there's any opportunitiesthat she can work on a marketing project,
(39:30):
to really understand what that looks like, is you know, to help
her validate her interests. Essentially,right, So, expanding your career could
be about changing your changing your careerfield. Expanding your career could be about
getting promoted. And the other thing. The thing that I will advise people
who are staying within their organization isto network internally. So many of us
(39:55):
when we think about networking, weonly think about it when we're looking for
a new job, or we thinkabout it externally to the company that we're
currently in. Whereas the matter isbusiness happens through relationships exactly, you don't
have relationships, is not going tohappen. That is what I will always
(40:16):
right Like, so what I willalways advise my clients is just because you
got the job and you've been doingwell in the current role doesn't mean that
there's not other opportunities for you tonetwork within your current company, because listen,
all you need is some person toconnect you into whatever it is that
you want to get into, andso I will always start them on a
(40:39):
path of Again, strategically networking.Networking isn't necessarily going, you know,
getting your girlfriend from the other departmentto go to go to lunch at whatever
whatever it is. Let it know, whatever restaurant, right, it's not,
(40:59):
it's not it's not it's that's notnetworking. Networking is thinking about,
Okay, what are the goals thatI'm trying to accomplish. Who is your
organization already does that or might knowsomeone who does that? How can I
actually connect with that person so thatI can just have a I mean,
it really just takes fifteen minutes tohave a conversation about this is what I'm
trying to accomplish. Do you happento know anybody? This is why I
(41:22):
heard you were really good at this. Can you show me what or tell
me how you might get started?Can you recommend some books? Can you
whatever it is? But strategically thinkingabout who you can connect with that and
who can help you expand your careerwithin your organization. And then the third
one I'll say is and people don't. Again, I'm unpopular when I say
(41:45):
this, but leveraging your boss isreally important. And I will always tell
someone you don't have to like yourboss. And that's what any of my
clients will say. I don't likethem, they don't like me here to
like. We're here to do thejob and to take our career forward.
(42:06):
And I think many of us havethe skills to navigate relationships that are not
to work with people that we don'tnecessarily like, and to navigate relationships that
are tough. We do that inour personal lives every day. Like we
our cousin Susu. We don't likeher, but we sit down with her
every Thanksgiving, we have a meal. Nobody gets we're not fighting. We
(42:27):
move on those same relationship management skills. You can leveraging to manage up to
your boss, who can be yourbiggest advocate or your walker. Absolutely,
So that's another way, in myopinion, when we say advance our careers,
these are all stepping What I'm talkingabout here are all stepping stones,
(42:52):
are all levers that we can pullto be able to advance ourselves in our
current work environment versus necessarily having togo outside. Absolutely, And you know,
I tell I tell my clients thesame thing that, especially when you
know that you are looking to progressin your career. I always tell them
too that they need to have.When you say network, I said,
(43:15):
you need to know someone that's inHR. You need to know someone that's
in EEO, you need to knowsomeone that's in accounting, because all these
different departments you need to have.You know, if something is going on
and you get into a position andyou know you need to find something out,
you can pick up the phone andcall that person say hey, you
(43:36):
know, I have a question foryou. Can you answer this or can
you tell me what you think aboutthis? Can you tell me how I
should do this? Or what paperworkI need to get to provide this?
You know, you need to have. Like you said, those are our
networking opportunities, but those are somethings that you should have in your back
(43:57):
pocket as you're trying to move upin your career. And I say the
same thing. I mean, youcan't stress those things too much. It's
not networking with your girlfriend going tolunch it's you know, really getting someone
in that department, in those differentdepartments that if you need to pick up
the phone and call someone to askthem a question, you have that person.
(44:21):
And the same likewise, if theyneed to pick up the phone and
call you and ask you a question, then they have you as someone as
a reference to a resource. Wow, that is so key. So tell
me what's coming up now in thehorizon. What do you have next?
Anything you want to share with us? Oh so yeah, so actually so
(44:45):
I do have a few things comingup. So first I would I would
invite anyone watching this and all ofyour viewers, if you are interested in
connecting, please connect with me.I am on LinkedIn, That's my primary
platform. I also I see thethank you doctor Lewis for putting my web
(45:05):
address in the chat, and soI'm also at wwwthechange dot com you can
learn about me and my programs.The thing that I am offering next is
two things. Actually, one isI am this is problem. I'm revealing
this here and I haven't shared ityet widely, but I am putting together
(45:29):
a free training on executive presence,and I'm going to be releasing that in
the next couple of weeks. So, and the reason why I'm doing that
is we happen to be at thismoment in time in performance review season,
and what I'm hearing from my clientsis the number one piece of feedback that
they're getting in their work environments isthat they need to have a stronger executive
(45:54):
presence. And so I thought thatputting something together to help women think about
understand what executive presence is, howthey might be able to build that on
their own, would be a reallyimportant resource for them to have. So
that's the first thing that's coming up, and then I am going to be
(46:15):
launching on Her Rise Program. OnHer Rise Program is a group program for
mid career women who want to getinto the executive suite. So if you're
a manager, or a director ora VP and you are looking to get
to the VP level and above,then this is the program for you.
(46:38):
It teaches us, teaches you allthe things that we talked about today,
teaches you about building your leadership brand, It teaches you how to get more
visible, It teaches you about selfadvocacy. It teaches you how to make
the strategic business case for your promotion. So it's everything that you would need
in order to be able to advanceyour career again and within the organization that
(47:00):
you're already in. Wow, andjust tell us quickly again your how to
reach you, your email address,how can they help to you? So
LinkedIn is probably the best way toreach me. And I'm doctor Nicole A.
Brian on LinkedIn. And then ifyou want to learn more about the
(47:21):
programs that I just mentioned, youcan find all of that information and more
on my website which is www.The change doc dot com. Thank you
so much. It has been apleasure being able to have you here to
share some of the great nuggets thatyou shared with us today on women in
(47:43):
their careers. I have just you'veeven given me some information or some nuggets
that I can kind of use myself. So thank you again for taking time
out of your schedule to share withus. We truly appreciate it, and
hopefully we'll be able to have youback again to talk about some things that,
(48:06):
like you said, your programs thatyou have coming up. You'll be
able to come back and tell usabout some of those things and how it's
working out and how the ladies areprogressing in those things too. So thank
you for sharing with us, andI'll just let everyone know what I have
coming up and real quick. Don'tforget to get your copies of the On
(48:31):
It Anthology. If you'd like toget a copy of the on It Anthology
Unapologetically and the Journal three hundred andsixty five Days to Transformation, you can
go to my website which is wwwdot EXWSI dot com to purchase each one
(48:52):
separately. It's twenty four ninety nineboth books together, the book and the
Journal is forty nine nine. Makesure to tune in to the Black Business
Olympics that's taking place this week startedMonday and it's going all the way through
Sunday, October twenty ninth. Andof course, the Black Business Olympics is
(49:15):
a fundraiser to provide scholarships and laptopsto high school seniors going to college and
K through twelve entrepreneurs. The BlackBusiness Olympics showcases black businesses, black business
owners and corporations all around the world. And if you'd like to be a
speaker on the Black Business Olympics toshowcase your business, you can email me
(49:37):
at info at EXWSI dot com andjust put in the subject line black Business
Olympics speaker, and make sure youtune in tonight at seven pm as I
will be speaking on the Black BusinessOlympics. You can go onto YouTube if
you put in Black Business Olympics aroundseven p you'll be able to pull it
(50:00):
up and watch it live. I'llbe talking about how to have a successful
mindset. Also coming up on thearising January twenty fifth through the twenty seven,
twenty twenty four is my show upto Rise Up Women's Summit. If
you want to be a speaker atthe event, you can email me at
(50:20):
info at EXWSI dot com, Somake sure to If you want to find
out more information about that, ofcourse, just contact me and I'll be
glad to send you the information.Don't forget to take a listen to my
TEDx talk. It is still movingout there. I am still so excited
(50:43):
the tep. My TEDx talk nowhas one hundred ninety thousand, three hundred
and eighty five views, so ifyou have not watched it, make sure
to do so. You can goto YouTube put my name doctor Madelinanne Lewis
in the search box, or ifyou want there link, you can email
me at info at e X wSI dot com. My goal, as
(51:07):
you know, is to reach amillion plus views, So thank you in
advance for your support. Thank youto those who have already viewed it and
have shared the video. I reallydo appreciate it because, as I said,
it's still moving out there, soso excited about that. Again,
(51:28):
I would like to thank my guests, doctor Nicole A. Bryan, and
my viewers and my listeners for joiningme today. This is the successful women's
show. I am doctor Madeline andLewis your host and if you'd like to
reach out to me, you canemail me at info at EXWSI dot com
or go to my website www dote xw SI dot com. And if
(51:53):
you do, make sure you downloadmy free three part video series on three
things every woman should do to positionherself for executive leadership. Again, don't
forget to subscribe to our channel,both the YouTube channel and the talk for
TV channel. Subscribe to the channel. Make sure that you like and share
(52:16):
this episode with others. We hadsome great nuggets today that doctor Brian shared
with us. Again, this isthe success for women's show. We are
here every week. I am yourhost, Doctor Madeline and lewis helping women
to accelerate the path to success.Thank you again for joining me. I
(52:38):
love you all to life and asalways, be well and stay safe out
there. Got the hat manhis haveend
The topics and opinions expressed on thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
and their guests, and not thoseof W four WN Radio It's employees or
affiliates. We make no recommendations orendorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or onour web. No liability, explicit or
implied shall be extended to W fourWN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any
questions or comment should be directed tothose show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:22):
W four WN Radio. I gotthe OFT's and did you know women represent
(00:55):
just three percent of Fortune five hundredCEOs and less than fifteen of corporate executives
at top companies worldwide. Have youwondered what the secrets are to getting into
the top ranks, whether in theprivate or public sector. Do you want
to figure out how to stop beingheld back in your career? Are passed
(01:17):
over for promotion, then you're inthe right place. Hi. I'm doctor
Mattlanann Lewis, President and CEO ofthe Executive Women's Success Institute. I have
decades of experience in the military,the federal government, and corporate America,
and my mission is to help womensucceed and tap into their full potential.
(01:38):
I want to reach a million pluswomen around the world to become the leaders
they are meant to be. Soif you want to move into a management
or executive level position, or maybeyou are a female veteran transitioning out of
the military into business entrepreneurship, thenreach out to the Executive Women's Success Institute
(01:59):
at three zero one six nine threethree two eight four let us get you
on the fast track to success.Well. Hello, and welcome to the
(02:23):
Success for Women's Show, where youcan view us on Talk for TV and
listen to us on the Women forWomen Network. I am doctor Madeline Ann
Lewis your host, and my missionis to help women accelerate the path to
success. Well. Today's topic isthe Change Doc and my guest is doctor
(02:46):
Nicole A. Brian. Let mejust give you a little background on doctor
Brian. Doctor Nicole A. Brianis a certified leadership career coach, organizational
consultant, and psychotherapists with twenty fiveplus years experience helping women define their own
(03:09):
success, lead with confidence, expertlynavigate company politics, and secure their executive
seat to maximize their income influence andimpact. Doctor Brian's clients and their results
(03:29):
span several industries, including the healthcareindustry, technology, communications, financial services,
consumer goods, and education. She'sher world class programs at the Change
doc LLC integrate psychology, key businessprinciples, organizational behavior, and decades of
(03:57):
real world experience as a core executiveto empower women to make a difference,
lead Boulder, and create positive,positive change for themselves, their teams,
and the world. I'd like tointroduce to all of you, doctor Nicole
A. Brian. Welcome to thesea so much, Thank you so much.
(04:25):
It's good to have you here.Actually, we just found out we're
in the same Neckati Woods. Sothat's great, right there. Uh to
be able to have a conversation withsomeone that's just almost right across the street
from me. Okay, yes,yes, absolutely, Oh I know,
so tell me. I usually readthe standard bio on my guests, but
(04:48):
then I'd like to us my guest, to just tell us what you want
us to know about doctor Nicole A. Brian. Wow, that's such as
it's a broad question. I wishI could tell my whole story from beginning
to end, but I think whatI would want everyone to know. Are
(05:09):
a couple of things. One iswhat you already stated, but I probably
could state it much simpler and saythat my work is to help women get
into the executive suite so to achievetheir executive level goals and succeed once they
(05:29):
get there. So that's probably thesimplest way to put it. I would
also say that for me, it'sall about access. I think, you
know, given women people of color, we have not always had access to
do the things that we know wecan do, and so part of my
mission is ensuring that those of uswho are ready and able to serve at
(05:57):
that level have the ability to doso and get the opportunity to do so.
So that's that's what I would say, Absolutely sounds good. That's always
my mission to to get them there. So tell us, you know,
tell us a little bit about whatled you to even get into a career,
(06:17):
coach, and especially with on theexecutive level. Sure, So I
am originally from well, I willsay, I represent usually my two countries
or my country and my city.I would say, so Barbados is where
my parents are from. So Iam a child of immigrants who and I
(06:40):
say that that's an important part ofmy story. One just to demonstrate the
drive. I think any children ofimmigrants would be able to relate to that.
But then two, I didn't growup in a community where having a
corporate career was even a thing,and so probably like many of your views,
(07:00):
I was the first first person inmy family, and in many cases
the first person even when I gotinto a corporate environment, the first person
of color, the first female onthe team. And so it became my
mission even then, you know,to just help other women who might have
been starting out their careers, justas a you know, a peer,
(07:24):
as a you know, a soundingboard. And I think throughout my career
I got so passionate about it thatwhat very quickly realized was that all of
the important decisions, all of thethings from what the company might be doing
in the next year, two years, ten years from now, as well
(07:45):
as you've been simple things like whatwe might have in the cafeteria, the
corporate cafeteria, those decisions were beingmade at the executive level. And when
there wasn't representation from women or peopleof color in those discussions, we felt
it in the corporate ranks, right, and so it became it was you
(08:09):
know, it became very easy forme to understand and to see that without
us being a part of those dialogues, that nothing was going to change.
Uh. And so I have madeit my mission to be to focus at
that level, not that you knowthere. I think people all along the
career path need help and support.There was a time where people we wouldn't
(08:33):
reach out for help and support that, but I think now that we are
normalizing the fact that getting support inwhatever way that you can get it,
whether it be a mentor or apeer, or a formal coach or your
boss, regardless of what that helpedwould look like. Now it's more it's
(08:54):
more normalized to do that, whichis why I kind of set up my
business to help women in particular atthat executive level, because every decision that
gets made there has a downstream effectinto everything else that we all experience in
those workplaces. Absolutely, Now,the majority of your clients they are women?
(09:18):
Or do you have a mixture ofboth men and women? So I
do? I do the majority,vast majority of my clients are in fact
women. I do serve. Everyonce in a while, I will serve
or help a man who might bea man of color, but the ninety
is women. Yeah, absolutely,I understand. I can definitely relate to
(09:43):
what you're saying because when I wascoming through, especially in my career,
you know, I always say,you never know who's watching you, because
as I was, you know,moving up in my career, I had
women coming to me wanting to know, well, how did you do that?
How did you get this promotion?You know, you know, and
so they wanted me to look attheir resumes and different things like that,
(10:07):
and that's how you realize, youknow, you know that the women are
there, but sometimes I guess youdon't realize until you actually start to focus
that they're really not progressing the waysay the men are progressing. How they
tend seem to move their careers justtend to just you know, just keep
(10:31):
moving, and the women sometimes theyjust get stuck and a lot of times
they just can't figure out what's goingon. What do I need to do
to get from point A to pointB? And so I think, you
know, I definitely kudos to you, because anyone who's trying to get women
up that career ladder is always oneof my favorite people. So you know,
(10:56):
I love what you're doing absolutely,So tell us what do you think
or what have you seen has beenor maybe has been your biggest challenge in
helping your clients to move forward intheir careers. So the things that I
(11:20):
really focused on help my clients withare things that I personally experienced coming through
the ranks, things that my peershave experienced, and frankly, things that
are still exists, right. Andso one thing that I will always acknowledge
is there are systemic issues and challengesthat prevent women from accelerating in their careers
(11:45):
and achieving the career goals that theyhave for themselves. So I never want
to discount that the things that Iwork with women on is acknowledging that those
things exist and then so what arewe going to do about them? And
one of the things one of thereasons why you know, I coined myself
the change doc is because I recognizethat change has to happen at a systemic
(12:11):
level as well as at the individuallevel. And so to answer your question,
some of the common patterns that Isee women experiencing even today is having
to deal with those biases, thesethose systemic biases that they encounter. So
that's that's one. The second ishaving a brand. So we I think
(12:39):
many of us now talk about personalbrands a lot. We obviously know about
company brands. But one thing thatleaders that I tend to work with don't
know a lot about is their leadershipbrand. And that's just essentially the combination
of your personal brand and your leadershipstyle and how that how people see that,
(13:00):
how they engage with you around thosetwo things. So I work with
them on their leadership brand number butthat's number one. Another thing that we
focus on is their level of visibility. And so in a to the point
that you just made, doctor Lewis, in terms of when women were,
you know, women were coming toyou of their own accord to kind of
(13:24):
get your help and your advice onhow to move forward. That's because from
their vantage point, you were visible. They knew about you, they heard
about you, they they knew aboutyour reputation, and so they came to
you. What I'm finding is manyof the women that I work with,
the decision makers in the organization,don't know who they are. They don't
(13:48):
know what they what they can contribute, They don't know their backgrounds, and
so they so many of us womenare working hard. I mean, we
are killing every day on the job. But maybe our boss knows and maybe
our colleagues know, but the decisionmaker, who's who is deciding what our
(14:11):
merit increase will be or what bonuswe will get or don't get, they
don't know. So that visibility orlack of visibility is another area that is
common that I think women women findthemselves in. And then the third is
more of a something that we cancontrol more so, and that's about advocating
(14:35):
for ourselves. So a lot ofthe discourse these days is about, you
know, women being more confident.I'm finding that women are pretty confident,
but in terms of what they dowith that confidence in the workplace is a
whole nother story. And so Itend to help my women leaders. I
(14:58):
tend to help them with figuring outwhen and how to advocate for themselves for
whatever it is that they want.It might be a promotion, it might
be the new project that's coming on. It might be they want to,
you know, lead a different teamor work with this you know, high
profile client or customer, whatever itis. But being comfortable enough to make
(15:22):
that ask and make the ask ina way that is showcasing your ability to
do more for the organization and foryourself. But those are some of the
themes that I'm seeing. Yeah,wow, you know that that is so
interesting because I do remember, likelike I said, with the women coming
(15:46):
to me, and I didn't realizeanyone was looking at me or who you
know who was looking at me,but I do I always felt like,
and this is uh And I don'tknow if you do this, but I
tell women that no one is responsiblefor your career but you. And so
sometimes you have to put yourself outthere. You have to take you know,
(16:07):
maybe take on something like you said, to make yourself visible that nobody
else may want. You know,that may that may be a time and
everybody's like backing away from and that'sthe one maybe that you should take so
that you could put yourself on theforefront. I remember when I was working
for one organization and I saw ontheir website that they had a recruitment team,
(16:33):
and so I got on the recruitmentteam. And that provided an opportunity
where I was representing the organization andI was going out to different colleges and
everything to you know, recruit otherindividuals to come in but that also gives
you an opportunity to see how theorganization works, sometimes on the back end,
(16:55):
to see what's going on. AndI even had some women that come
to me and wanted to know,well, how did you do that?
We didn't even know you had thatwe had a recruitment team. But like,
okay, you're working for an organizationand sometimes you have to do your
research. I mean, it's rightthere, it was on the website.
It wasn't like they were hiding itor anything, but that you wouldn't believe
(17:18):
some of the people didn't even knowthat they literally had a recruitment team that
they would put people together just togo out and do that. And from
that it was almost like a coupleother things just you know, kind of
came about because you step into onething sometimes that provide other, you know,
avenues for you. And that's whyI always tell women, don't be
(17:42):
afraid to toot your own horn.If you know how to do something,
don't sit there and pretend that youdon't know how to do it. You
know, let them know, Hey, do this, Yeah, I'm capable
of doing it, So I seewhat you're saying. I mean, it's
sometimes I think you know. Anotherthing that kind of gets me a little
(18:06):
upset is that when women get complacentin where they are, what they're doing,
and because they feel like okay,especially in the federal government where they
have the GS levels, and theyfeel like, oh, well, my
position goes up to you know,seven, ninet eleven, whatever, and
once they get to hit that,they just feel like it's automatic. Well,
i'm a seven, now I'm goingto a nine. I'm a nine
(18:27):
now I'm going to But that's notautomatic because if you haven't or put you
like you said, put yourself outthere, be visible so that they could
see that you're working at the nextlevel, you're capable of handling the next
level. They don't have to giveit to you just because that's you know,
you're in that position that says itgoes up to that level. So
(18:49):
you know, once you hit thatfifteen and the next level is executive status,
then you definitely have to make surethat you're visible. You definitely have
to take on more to put yourselfout there because once you're at that level,
at that point, you're you're goingto be representing the organization, so
they need to know that you'll speakup that you will be capable of going
(19:15):
out there and talking for the organization. So absolutely. Yeah. It's so
interesting because so as you were justdescribing that, I had tons of thoughts,
but one was this sense of entitlement, right, and the sense of
entitlement and that we hate to seeit in other people, right, we
(19:40):
don't. We doesn't matter where youcome from. You hate to see someone
else thinking that they can be ordo or get something just on the basis
of what they might have done tenyears ago. But we sometimes find ourselves
in that situation ourselves, but wecan't see it in ourselves, right.
So I think that's one of thebenefits of having a coach or having a
(20:06):
mentor who is willing to challenge youand make you hold the mirror up and
make you think a little bit differently. So that's one thing I was That's
one thought that came through my mind. The other thought that came to my
mind was the concept of hitting aglass ceiling. And that's that's really the
women that I work with. Whenwomen who are high achievers, highly motivated,
(20:30):
but for some reason they get toa certain level, whether it be
gs six, yes, seven,or they get to you know, a
assistant vice president in their organization manageror whatever, and they can't seem to
get past that. Right, They'vedone all the things that they want to
do and they just can't seem toget past that. That's when I will
(20:53):
come in and ask the question,is it you, Is it what you're
doing that you can can get pastthat, or is it those systemic issues
that are preventing you from getting pastthat. And again, when you're when
you're navigating it on your own,you just know you can't get past It's
hard to determine what the actual causeis. And so what you will find,
(21:18):
and I'm sure you find this aswell with your clients, is that
people just start trying to work harder, they work more hours, They you
know, try to take on everyproject they can get their hands on.
But a year later, they stillhave not been able to move past whatever
level that they're their past. Andso for me, it's really about understanding
(21:42):
what's truly holding you back, whichagain it's hard to do when you're in
it every day, it's really hardto see. So understanding what's truly holding
you back and being strategic about howyou get yourself out of that. I'm
stressing that word strategic, and Irealize that in some environments it's a buzzword.
(22:06):
But what I find is so manyof us women are strategic about everything
else. We are strategic about whatwe do on the job. We're strategic
about how we manage our households,We're strategic about all these other things,
taking care of our parents, takingcare of our kids. But when it
comes to managing our own career trajectory, somehow we lose that strategic approach.
(22:33):
And so that's another thing that andbeing strategic isn't just about planning. It's
truly being about and if anybody's familiarwith all the old school video games like
the pac Man and the you usedto have to know, Okay, that
path is going this way, themonsters are coming from here. I'm going
(22:53):
to take this alternate route, andif I see someone the monster coming right
like you have to be strategic isabout thinking about all the different external pressures,
the internal pressures, making alternative plansand directions that you can take,
how you can navigate differently that beforeyou find yourself in those troubling situations.
(23:19):
And so that's you ask me aboutpatterns that I'm seeing these days with the
women that I work with. That'sprobably another significant pattern that I'm encountering is
that we are not leveraging our strategicthinking skills for growing our own careers.
Absolutely. Wow, yeah, wow, Yeah, you're absolutely right about that.
(23:45):
And I like the analogy which yousaid about the pac man because it
does come from you know, sometimesin all directions, you never know where
it's going to come from. Soyou have to be able to sort of
think fast and move on your feet, so to speak. You know,
you just you know, you can'tbe uh small mind that are small not
(24:07):
maybe not small minded, small thinkingin in your decisions. Uh, but
absolutely when you make that decision,you definitely have to own up to it,
you know, when you uh,whatever that decision may be. But
yeah, that's a good analogy usingthe pack band, and uh, I
know we're gonna we can see thoseyes, women like yeah, I remember
(24:33):
that the blue monster the teeth comingat you. Yeah yeah wow. Okay,
So tell us now we talked aboutthe career moving in our careers,
but what are some obstacles facing uhwomen, I, especially since the pandemic,
(24:55):
do you see a lot of changethat they need to to make especially
with their careers or to move theircareers forward. And I say that because
of the long span that they wereworking from home and maybe feeling now because
they were working from home and maybenot as visible or not maybe not being
(25:18):
able to be as visible. Whatkind of challenges do you think they'll face
now to start getting that career backon track. Yeah, so I have,
so I think and I believe thatthe data actually does show this already.
Where I mean, frankly, youknow, women were unrepresented at the
(25:40):
senior levels of the organization pre pandemic. We have kind of hit a plateau
for lack of a better word,that we were talking about plateaus and careers.
But as a you know, asa universal system, women's career growth
have plateaued as since the pandemic.And one of the reasons it has been
(26:03):
because of remote work. Right,So, what I'm finding with my clients
is that many of them prefer remotework, Yeah, vastly right. They
do not want to go back inthe office at all, or not even
on a hybrid situation and what thatAnd that's fine, Like I totally get
(26:23):
it. So what that means though, however, particularly as you move more
into more senior leadership roles. Companiesdo need and want more senior leaders to
be present in the actual af physicaloffice environment. And so what I'm finding
(26:44):
is women are self selecting out.It's another reason women will self select out
because they do not want to havethey need the flexibility to take care of
what's going at home, personal preference, you know, whatever it is.
They're not willing to take on theroles that require them to go into the
office, even on a part timebasis, and so that's shrinking the number
(27:04):
of opportunities that are available to themto move up into their in their own
companies or even in other companies.So we are definitely seeing that some women
are having to face that choice,right, and some women are thinking ahead
of time and say, Okay,if I have to make that choice,
then I'm going to opt out.Right. The other thing that I'm seeing
(27:30):
is that it is hard for womento connect or stay connected. We have
to work extra harder to remain connectedwhen we are working remote again remote on
a full time basis or on apart time basis. So the zoom meetings,
you know, is when they getthis FaceTime with their teams and with
(27:53):
other leaders within the organization, butthey're not able to necessarily network, they're
not able to necessarily deepen the relationshipsthat they might have, and that is
playing a role because cognizantly or youknow, not people when people are making
decisions about who's getting promoted or who'sgoing to get assigned that special project,
(28:18):
they are basing it on what theyknow and existing relationships that they have with
their their workforce. And so itmight not be a blatant, you know,
exclusion from that pool of people,but we need the data does show
that women are being excluded and they'rethey're they're missing out on opportunities, and
(28:41):
it's one of the reasons is becausewe're not being able to connect in in
the same manner that we used tobe able to connect in pre pandemic.
Right, absolutely, you're absolutely rightabout that. And and you know,
with a lot of people, likeyou said, said not wanting to go
back into the office, and evensome of them don't even want to,
(29:06):
like you said, do the hybrid, you know, to maybe three days
a week. They some of themdon't even want to do that because I
guess being out so long and changingtheir whole routine and lifestyle now they want
to continue to keep it the wayit is, but it does, as
you say, make it harder forthem to in some cases, remain visible
(29:29):
and to showcase a lot of timeswhat they can do. They really,
you know, have to kind ofput forth an effort now, especially if
they're working from home all the time. And like you say, senior leadership.
And that's another question I had withthe challenges that they're facing as leaders,
(29:51):
especially females, you know, femalesleaders that they have to face since
the pandemic, because how do youyou kind of handle that you have these
people, all these people that areat home and I'm going to the office
every day, but I'm still supervisinga whole lot of people that are at
(30:12):
home. So how is that goingto affect my work? You know as
the leader of all these people becausenow they're looking at me, well,
you can't get any of them tocome into the office. So you know,
it's that also becomes a challenge forlike you say, as a female
(30:34):
leader, if you know, howdo you handle that? What do you
do? I mean, that's gotto be frustrating too, because you understand
why they want to stay home,but you also you're probably getting a little
pressure from the top, you knowthat you need to bring some of them
or maybe all of them in fora certain amount of time to come into
(30:57):
the brick and mortar to be there, you know. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, the one thing I willso so that's absolutely true. I think
the one thing I will say aboutabout that is and my clients hate when
I say this, but some ofsome of our viewers will hate when I
say this too, But it's theabsolute truth. Right. So we all
(31:19):
know the the people who you know, we all have worked with someone at
some point in time where we're like, how did they get that job?
Like? What did they do tolike because I know what they actually do,
yes, but somehow they've gotten thisrole and people believe the height that
(31:41):
they are like really good. Right, we all have worked with that person
before, right, and there's areason why that is, right, So
we know behind the scenes that theymay not be a you know, a
good uh. They may not bethe best expert in their field. You
know, they may not be youknow, the top leader in the you
(32:06):
know, in the amongst our colleagues, but they're doing something right right,
and in that something right, theyhave convinced their brand. The brand that
they have has convinced the senior leadersto see them in a way where they
continue to get rewarded. What Isay to my uh, and that's it's
(32:29):
just part of the right, it'sjust part of the ecosystem that we all
find ourselves in. What I tellmy clients is it's not enough for you
to work hard. Yes, whatpeople are seeing, well, how they
view you. Not gonna say whatyou think about yourself. What do you
think about yourself is one thing,but what everybody else views you as,
(32:52):
what they see, what they believe. You actually have control over that.
You do have control over that.But we get so into putting our heads
down, working hard, getting thejob done. We work on the job.
We don't work on our careers,right, so we work in the
(33:15):
job, but we do not workon our careers. And you probably seem
to be getting animated here. Butbecause this is such a big point,
particularly for women, particularly for womenof color, we're so into we got
to get we have to be thebest at what we do, and we
do. But if other people don'tsee that we are the best, and
other people don't know that what weare delivering, then us being the best
(33:40):
at what we do is only goingto get us so far. And what
John is doing right, and he'snot the best at what he does,
but he is working and making surethat other people view him as that.
He's leveraging his team to build himup. He's putting himself in those communes
he's making and put himself in thoseconversations where he's talking to the clients like
(34:04):
he has found a way to havethis image of himself projected in the organization
where when people here whatever, theythink, Okay, John, because John
told me he was good he deliveredthis for the client, or John said
he was X, Y and Z. We do, there's no doubt about
(34:25):
it. Will tell my clients tillthey their ears won't hear me anymore.
We as women have to deliver thegoods. We have to be great.
Oh yeah, But on top ofthat, you have to make sure other
people know how great we are.And that's where we miss the boat,
and that's where other people. Peopledo it very well. They may not
(34:49):
be do the great part very well, but they do the other part very
well. And that's what recognized andrewarded. While we're still fighting for the
scraps of what we need to have. It's an unpopular I know, we
don't like to talk about that veryoften, but it's the truth of working
within any type of middle to largeenvironment. The truth of the matter is
(35:15):
women are not represented at the top. The top is highly dominated by men.
And when it's highly dominated by men, then we are still going to
feel we are still feeling the effectsof that and all the decision making included
who gets promoted to the next tothe next generation of executives. Absolutely,
you're absolutely correct about that, andit's it's it's it's very true, it
(35:43):
really is. So tell me whatdo you think or what are some ways
do you think that women can seekout new career opportunities, especially with the
job market seemingly unpredictable right now.Yeah. So, the one thing that
(36:05):
the I specialize and I'm glad youasked this question, doctor lewis because the
thing that I specialize in is notjust helping women get into the executive levels,
but to help women get into theexecutive levels without having to leave their
organization. I fully support people leavein the organization if you if you want
to go and do something new,or you know you've done everything you can
(36:28):
do within an organization. You wantto go, I say go, and
I'll hope you get there. Butit's not the only way, particularly when
you move when you're moving into thesenior leadership ranks. The data again,
data clearly shows that when you're whenyou move into that VP level of an
organization, you are more likely toget promoted in the organization that you are
(36:53):
in versus having to leave and gosomewhere else. When you're trying to get
to the senior VP executive EP level, you are likely going to your your
chances are better if you stay inthe organization that you are in, right,
Okay, So if you want toif you want to go, go,
But if you want to stay there, there are things that you can
(37:15):
do to be able to move upwithout necessarily having to leave the company.
And to answer your question, whatare some of the things that people can
do to get new job opportunities?Particularly and we are recession bound, let's
just say right where the economy isis contracting versus expanding at this point in
(37:38):
time. And so what I wouldsay is to anyone who is trying to
move up in their organization, toexcuse me, move up to the next
level of their career. I wouldsay, don't necessarily put yourself out on
the market yet until you've explored everythingyou need to explore within unless you're unless
your environment is toxic. If it'stoxic, you don't have to talk about
(38:00):
it anymore. Get out and don'teven look back. Absolutely. But if
your if your organization is not toxic, and you've had if you've built a
good care you spent time contributing tothat organization, You've given it all of
your energy for the past few years, you have a great internal network there,
then I say, continue to investin the investment that you've already made.
(38:24):
The things that will help you movethe needle and expand your career opportunities
even within your company. Is tothink about expanding your career in different ways.
It doesn't Expanding your career doesn't necessarilyonly meant getting a promotion in that
(38:45):
moment in time. Some of myclients want to expand their careers. Some
of them are looking for career changechanges, and so what I will do
is help them talk to and otherpeople within their organization in the new discipline
that they want to get into.Right, So, I have a woman
who it has a fifteen year careerin human resources. She's interested actually in
(39:09):
doing some marketing, and so I'vehad her go and talk to the head
of marketing and a couple of acouple of other people in the marketing department,
one to truly understand is marketing reallywhat I want to do? And
two to see if there's any opportunitiesthat she can work on a marketing project,
(39:30):
to really understand what that looks like, is you know, to help
her validate her interests. Essentially,right, So, expanding your career could
be about changing your changing your careerfield. Expanding your career could be about
getting promoted. And the other thing. The thing that I will advise people
who are staying within their organization isto network internally. So many of us
(39:55):
when we think about networking, weonly think about it when we're looking for
a new job, or we thinkabout it externally to the company that we're
currently in. Whereas the matter isbusiness happens through relationships exactly, you don't
have relationships, is not going tohappen. That is what I will always
(40:16):
right Like, so what I willalways advise my clients is just because you
got the job and you've been doingwell in the current role doesn't mean that
there's not other opportunities for you tonetwork within your current company, because listen,
all you need is some person toconnect you into whatever it is that
you want to get into, andso I will always start them on a
(40:39):
path of Again, strategically networking.Networking isn't necessarily going, you know,
getting your girlfriend from the other departmentto go to go to lunch at whatever
whatever it is. Let it know, whatever restaurant, right, it's not,
(40:59):
it's not it's not it's that's notnetworking. Networking is thinking about,
Okay, what are the goals thatI'm trying to accomplish. Who is your
organization already does that or might knowsomeone who does that? How can I
actually connect with that person so thatI can just have a I mean,
it really just takes fifteen minutes tohave a conversation about this is what I'm
trying to accomplish. Do you happento know anybody? This is why I
(41:22):
heard you were really good at this. Can you show me what or tell
me how you might get started?Can you recommend some books? Can you
whatever it is? But strategically thinkingabout who you can connect with that and
who can help you expand your careerwithin your organization. And then the third
one I'll say is and people don't. Again, I'm unpopular when I say
(41:45):
this, but leveraging your boss isreally important. And I will always tell
someone you don't have to like yourboss. And that's what any of my
clients will say. I don't likethem, they don't like me here to
like. We're here to do thejob and to take our career forward.
(42:06):
And I think many of us havethe skills to navigate relationships that are not
to work with people that we don'tnecessarily like, and to navigate relationships that
are tough. We do that inour personal lives every day. Like we
our cousin Susu. We don't likeher, but we sit down with her
every Thanksgiving, we have a meal. Nobody gets we're not fighting. We
(42:27):
move on those same relationship management skills. You can leveraging to manage up to
your boss, who can be yourbiggest advocate or your walker. Absolutely,
So that's another way, in myopinion, when we say advance our careers,
these are all stepping What I'm talkingabout here are all stepping stones,
(42:52):
are all levers that we can pullto be able to advance ourselves in our
current work environment versus necessarily having togo outside. Absolutely, And you know,
I tell I tell my clients thesame thing that, especially when you
know that you are looking to progressin your career. I always tell them
too that they need to have.When you say network, I said,
(43:15):
you need to know someone that's inHR. You need to know someone that's
in EEO, you need to knowsomeone that's in accounting, because all these
different departments you need to have.You know, if something is going on
and you get into a position andyou know you need to find something out,
you can pick up the phone andcall that person say hey, you
(43:36):
know, I have a question foryou. Can you answer this or can
you tell me what you think aboutthis? Can you tell me how I
should do this? Or what paperworkI need to get to provide this?
You know, you need to have. Like you said, those are our
networking opportunities, but those are somethings that you should have in your back
(43:57):
pocket as you're trying to move upin your career. And I say the
same thing. I mean, youcan't stress those things too much. It's
not networking with your girlfriend going tolunch it's you know, really getting someone
in that department, in those differentdepartments that if you need to pick up
the phone and call someone to askthem a question, you have that person.
(44:21):
And the same likewise, if theyneed to pick up the phone and
call you and ask you a question, then they have you as someone as
a reference to a resource. Wow, that is so key. So tell
me what's coming up now in thehorizon. What do you have next?
Anything you want to share with us? Oh so yeah, so actually so
(44:45):
I do have a few things comingup. So first I would I would
invite anyone watching this and all ofyour viewers, if you are interested in
connecting, please connect with me.I am on LinkedIn, That's my primary
platform. I also I see thethank you doctor Lewis for putting my web
(45:05):
address in the chat, and soI'm also at wwwthechange dot com you can
learn about me and my programs.The thing that I am offering next is
two things. Actually, one isI am this is problem. I'm revealing
this here and I haven't shared ityet widely, but I am putting together
(45:29):
a free training on executive presence,and I'm going to be releasing that in
the next couple of weeks. So, and the reason why I'm doing that
is we happen to be at thismoment in time in performance review season,
and what I'm hearing from my clientsis the number one piece of feedback that
they're getting in their work environments isthat they need to have a stronger executive
(45:54):
presence. And so I thought thatputting something together to help women think about
understand what executive presence is, howthey might be able to build that on
their own, would be a reallyimportant resource for them to have. So
that's the first thing that's coming up, and then I am going to be
(46:15):
launching on Her Rise Program. OnHer Rise Program is a group program for
mid career women who want to getinto the executive suite. So if you're
a manager, or a director ora VP and you are looking to get
to the VP level and above,then this is the program for you.
(46:38):
It teaches us, teaches you allthe things that we talked about today,
teaches you about building your leadership brand, It teaches you how to get more
visible, It teaches you about selfadvocacy. It teaches you how to make
the strategic business case for your promotion. So it's everything that you would need
in order to be able to advanceyour career again and within the organization that
(47:00):
you're already in. Wow, andjust tell us quickly again your how to
reach you, your email address,how can they help to you? So
LinkedIn is probably the best way toreach me. And I'm doctor Nicole A.
Brian on LinkedIn. And then ifyou want to learn more about the
(47:21):
programs that I just mentioned, youcan find all of that information and more
on my website which is www.The change doc dot com. Thank you
so much. It has been apleasure being able to have you here to
share some of the great nuggets thatyou shared with us today on women in
(47:43):
their careers. I have just you'veeven given me some information or some nuggets
that I can kind of use myself. So thank you again for taking time
out of your schedule to share withus. We truly appreciate it, and
hopefully we'll be able to have youback again to talk about some things that,
(48:06):
like you said, your programs thatyou have coming up. You'll be
able to come back and tell usabout some of those things and how it's
working out and how the ladies areprogressing in those things too. So thank
you for sharing with us, andI'll just let everyone know what I have
coming up and real quick. Don'tforget to get your copies of the On
(48:31):
It Anthology. If you'd like toget a copy of the on It Anthology
Unapologetically and the Journal three hundred andsixty five Days to Transformation, you can
go to my website which is wwwdot EXWSI dot com to purchase each one
(48:52):
separately. It's twenty four ninety nineboth books together, the book and the
Journal is forty nine nine. Makesure to tune in to the Black Business
Olympics that's taking place this week startedMonday and it's going all the way through
Sunday, October twenty ninth. Andof course, the Black Business Olympics is
(49:15):
a fundraiser to provide scholarships and laptopsto high school seniors going to college and
K through twelve entrepreneurs. The BlackBusiness Olympics showcases black businesses, black business
owners and corporations all around the world. And if you'd like to be a
speaker on the Black Business Olympics toshowcase your business, you can email me
(49:37):
at info at EXWSI dot com andjust put in the subject line black Business
Olympics speaker, and make sure youtune in tonight at seven pm as I
will be speaking on the Black BusinessOlympics. You can go onto YouTube if
you put in Black Business Olympics aroundseven p you'll be able to pull it
(50:00):
up and watch it live. I'llbe talking about how to have a successful
mindset. Also coming up on thearising January twenty fifth through the twenty seven,
twenty twenty four is my show upto Rise Up Women's Summit. If
you want to be a speaker atthe event, you can email me at
(50:20):
info at EXWSI dot com, Somake sure to If you want to find
out more information about that, ofcourse, just contact me and I'll be
glad to send you the information.Don't forget to take a listen to my
TEDx talk. It is still movingout there. I am still so excited
(50:43):
the tep. My TEDx talk nowhas one hundred ninety thousand, three hundred
and eighty five views, so ifyou have not watched it, make sure
to do so. You can goto YouTube put my name doctor Madelinanne Lewis
in the search box, or ifyou want there link, you can email
me at info at e X wSI dot com. My goal, as
(51:07):
you know, is to reach amillion plus views, So thank you in
advance for your support. Thank youto those who have already viewed it and
have shared the video. I reallydo appreciate it because, as I said,
it's still moving out there, soso excited about that. Again,
(51:28):
I would like to thank my guests, doctor Nicole A. Bryan, and
my viewers and my listeners for joiningme today. This is the successful women's
show. I am doctor Madeline andLewis your host and if you'd like to
reach out to me, you canemail me at info at EXWSI dot com
or go to my website www dote xw SI dot com. And if
(51:53):
you do, make sure you downloadmy free three part video series on three
things every woman should do to positionherself for executive leadership. Again, don't
forget to subscribe to our channel,both the YouTube channel and the talk for
TV channel. Subscribe to the channel. Make sure that you like and share
(52:16):
this episode with others. We hadsome great nuggets today that doctor Brian shared
with us. Again, this isthe success for women's show. We are
here every week. I am yourhost, Doctor Madeline and lewis helping women
to accelerate the path to success.Thank you again for joining me. I
(52:38):
love you all to life and asalways, be well and stay safe out
there. Got the hat manhis haveend
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