October 13, 2025 • 15 mins
This week's Powerful Business Strategies segment with Michael Barbarita of Next Step CFO is Business transactions are just that transactional. You need to get the customer away from the transaction and to the transformation that will occur with your product or service.
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Click Here to Subscribe to The Adventures of Pipeman for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Take some zany and serious journeys with The Pipeman aka Dean K. Piper, CST on The Adventures of Pipeman also known as Pipeman Radio syndicated globally “Where Who Knows And Anything Goes.”
Would you like to be a sponsor of the show?
Would you like to have your business, products, services, merch, programs, books, music or any other professional or artistic endeavors promoted on the show?
Would you like interviewed as a professional or music guest on The Adventures of Pipeman, Positively Pipeman and/or Pipeman in the Pit?
Would you like to host your own Radio Show, Streaming TV Show, or Podcast? PipemanRadio Podcasts are heard on Pipeman Radio, Talk 4 Media, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Amazon Music, Audible, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and over 100 other podcast outlets where you listen to Podcasts.
The following are the different podcasts to Follow, Listen, Download, Subscribe:
•The Adventures of Pipeman
•Pipeman Radio
•Pipeman in the Pit – Music Interviews & Festivals
•Positively Pipeman – Empowerment, Inspiration, Motivation, Self-Help, Business, Spiritual & Health & Wellness
Click Here to Subscribe for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Follow @pipemanradio on all socials & Pipeman Radio Requests & Info at www.linktr.ee/pipemanradio
Stream The Adventures of Pipeman daily & live Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays at 1PM ET on W4CY Radio & Talk 4 TV.
Download, Rate & Review the Podcast at The Adventures of Pipeman, Pipeman Radio, Talk 4 Media, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, YouTube & All Podcast Apps.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, you have done to censure fore wow for you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Your welcome back to the Adventures of pipe Man once again,
here with our positively Pipeman segment with our expert resident
guest on business strategies that you're gonna want to find
(00:33):
out about. He has the formula for success and they
are powerful. So let's welcome to the show. Michael Barbarita.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
How are you fantastic? Dane? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Oh beautiful? You know, Uh, I can't be bad. How
can't be bad? Because we're learning things that are going
to help us in our business, which help us in
our personal life, and then everything's great.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I agree, Thanks for having me. You know, it's funny
every one of our pri One of the biggest game changers,
uh for me in learning about selling U for me
was being transformational, not transactional. And this takes practice because
(01:21):
our problem, as as salespeople, business owners, uh, whatever whatever
you may be, uh is our prospects are conditioned to
think transactionally. And I'm gonna explain what that means. But
we we must get them to think transformationally because when
you think about it, just about any product or service
(01:44):
can be transformational. Now, there might be some like if
you sell nuts and bolts, I don't know, maybe that
maybe that's not transformational, but most all products are transformational.
And in order for this concept to work, you must
know and understand your prospect's number one goal, number one dream,
(02:06):
and number one desire. And there is a special technique
that one can use to get to that number one
goal and desire. And let me see if I can
briefly explain it. So like if I was if I
was talking to a business owner, I'd say, you know,
(02:27):
what's your number one goal? And it's say something like, well,
I want to get my business to a million dollars. Great,
you get your business to a million dollars? What will
that do for you? That's a critical statement I just made.
First of all, I repeated it, okay, which is forward pacing,
because I said, you've got the business to a million dollars? Now,
(02:48):
what will that do for you? And so then they'll say,
well that will let's just say that will allow me
to hire someone. Great, you get the business to a
million dollars, you're able to hire someone. What will that
do for you? Ah? Jeez, that'll love free up my time? Awesome.
(03:08):
So you get the business to a million dollars, you
hire a manager or hire someone and uh and and
and freeze up your time. What will that do for you?
Oh man, that that'll allow me to spend more time
with my my my wife and and my kids, go
to my kids soccer games, go on date nights with
(03:30):
my wife, which I haven't been doing at all. That's
when you hit pay direct, okay, because that notice. Notice
it took three or four steps to get to their
number one goal. And by the way, I'd make sure
I ask what the spouse's name is and what the
kids' names are. You'll always get the names of the
(03:52):
people of the of the from your of your prospect
who they love. Yeah, okay, so that you can apply
it later on. So anyway, that that's how you that's
the steps it takes, because the chances that somebody really
gives you their number one goal in the first question
(04:13):
is almost highly unlikely.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
They don't even usually know that's it.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
They don't think about it, right, And the fact that
you're taking them on this journey is going to give
you some points just by virtue of that, because once
you understand their number one goal and desire, you can
make your product transformation. So I'm gonna give you an example.
I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. I'm gonna give
(04:40):
you an example if and I because I'm picking a
difficult product to sell, okay, and so I want.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
To I want to say something first, if they by
listening to last week's episode. This relates to the first
step of last week's episode, which is yep, okay. And
if you haven't listened to it last week's episode, go
back to the podcast anywhere you're listening to podcasts and
listen to it, because you'll see how this episode is
(05:12):
transformational from that episode.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Excellent, excellent. So let's say your product, the service is
selling murals. Now, that's not an easy product to sell.
That's why I picked it. Okay. Now, the problem the
customer has, and that's the first place you really have
to go. But the first the problem the customer has
is usually some emotional need that needs to be fulfilled.
(05:35):
And let me explain it with this example. So let's
say the salesperson finds out that the number one goal
of the prospect is to put a mural in their
child's bedroom in order to create a soothing, safe feeling
environment for better sleep. And emotional wellbeing. That's the prospect's
number one goal. After asking all the questions. They didn't
(05:55):
blurt that out at the beginning. They blurted out something else,
and you know, maybe an inexpensive mural or something to
that effect. But as you dig deeper, you got to
this point where they wanted to create a soothing, safe
feeling environment for better sleep and emotional wellbeing. And by
the way, sometimes you have to lead the customer to
(06:15):
their number one goal.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yep, most of the time in mind, yes.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right, you might you have to lead lead them even
if you because otherwise you're gonna keep saying, well will
that do for you, and they're gonna run out of thought.
So sometimes you might have to say, like in the
case of the mural, how about creat how about what
do you think about creating a soothing self feeling, a
safe feeling environment for better sleep and emotional well being?
(06:41):
And and you know they'll probably react to that favorably
mm hmm, and and say, you know what, that's pretty good.
That would be an objective of mine. So that would
be the prospect's number one goal. And let's say their
child's name is Tom. And by the way, I think
I might have said this before. It's always a good
idea to get the names of people your prospects love.
(07:02):
And when you start talking about price and terms and
how you're going to go about doing the mural, and
your features, advantages and benefits of working with you, which
are all things you have to do. But that's where
it becomes transactional. The customer is hearing the price, and
they're hearing how you go about doing it and so forth,
and they're interested, and that's all important, but that's where
(07:26):
it becomes transactional, and you need to constantly get the
prospect back to transformational. For example, if the prospect says
you know what, I have to think about it, you
would say, oh, you say you have to think about it?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And they would likely say, well, the price of the
mural and the whole program, and you would send say, oh, no, no,
I think we have a bit of a disconnect. As
a matter of fact, I think we're having two different conversations.
This isn't about our the mural, oh my program. Put
that aside, whether you work with me or someone else,
This is about creating a soothing, safe feeling environment for
(08:09):
Tom for better sleep. Emotional wellbeing and giving you both
lasting memories of how well you cared for him. That's
what this is about. I'm sure you don't have to
think about that. So what's happening here and what's going
through the customer's mind? And by the way, they're going
a little berserk at this point because they're torn, Oh yeah,
(08:32):
and because they're connecting what you're offering to the cost
and the transaction. It's your job to constantly get them
back to their number one goal and that makes your
product transformational. And I know that some people are out there.
I can kind of see their faces and they thinking, ooh,
(08:54):
that feels weird. But the most humane thing we can
do is get them out of the torn misery and
help them say yes to themselves. You see, we're not
trying to convince them or trying to get them to
do anything they don't want to do. All we're doing
is keeping them aware of what they said.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
They wanted, and what they said they wanted is usually emotional,
and sales is a transfer of emotion, and that's what
makes it transformational opposed to transactional.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Absolutely absolutely. And the other thing I want to point
out is we have if we truly believe in our
product or service, and this is this is part of
mindset that we talked about in the previous show. If
we truly believe in our product of service, isn't it
our obligation to that customer to help them say yes
(09:50):
to themselves in any way they can, in any way
we can, because the option that we're offering is absolutely,
hands down the best choice for that customer. Well, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You know what's funny about that is when I first
became a professional speaker, I came from a very salesy
environment in the financial business, and I just wanted to
help people. So I kept forgetting every seminar to try
to sell them anything. And somebody gave one of my mentors,
(10:24):
who's you know when the top speaker's out there? He
said something to me, and it really hit home. He goes, well, listen,
if you're truly looking to help people, how much could
you do to help them if you aren't making a living?
You know? And so yes, there's nothing wrong with selling them.
(10:50):
If you're truly trying to help them, why wouldn't you?
And how much help are you going to give them
if you yourself are not even following that lead and
can't pay your own bills.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Right. And here's the other thing I found, Dean, is
when you're truly disconnected to the outcome, then you're more
able to be more present in the conversation, allowing you
to focus on the customer's transformation, which is incredibly more
compelling versus the unpleasantry of focusing on the transaction.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh, no doubt about it. Like to me, the feeling
I get from helping people and fulfilling their needs by
selling them something it's worth way more than whatever they're
paying me, right.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And you believe in your product so that you know
that's the best option that they have. Absolutely, and it's
your obligation. It's your obligation because you are you have
the best offer and product and service that they can get.
And so it's your obligation to help them say yes
to themselves. And by the way, keep saying that people
(12:01):
don't say no to you or yes to you, they
say yes to them or no to themselves. So that's
the other thing. It's a lot of business owners take
the no personally. They're not saying no to you, they're
saying no to themselves. It's our job to get them
to say yes to themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And I'll even add to that that a lot of
times when they're saying no, they just want they want
to see how much you believe in what you're telling them,
because if you waver and give in to them, they
realize you're really not that confident that you could fulfill
their needs and goals.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Good, good point. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, That's why if you
if you're truly if you're truly disconnected, that comes across
meaning you're not out for yourself, You're out for the
customers benefit, not yours. And when when you do that
and you disconnect, it makes it once again you're more
(12:56):
present in the conversation and you're able to make You're
able to keep getting back to the transformation and away
from the transaction, because if you stick with the transaction,
that's a very has very negative annotations to the to
the to the prospect.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So yeah, how do people find out more about this
subject and other subjects that are some powerful business strategies
that they can implement in their business.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, Dan, they just have to go to NEXTSTEPCFO dot net.
They could download by book for free. Uh, they could
go to next STEPCFO dot Net, Forward slash Contact and
what I do with business, what I love to do
with business owners, so that for the next edition of
my book is Interview Business Owners. And the way it
works is it's sixty minutes on zoom. I present strategies
(13:54):
from my book and then I asked the business owner
if a business owner was to implement this strategy in
their industry, what impact would this strategy have, and then
I'd document it for the book. There's nothing to buy,
but I promise the business owner that they'll learn business
and financial strategies that their competition isn't doing. So if
(14:14):
they go to NEXTSTEPCFO, dot net, Forward slash Contact, fill
out the contact form in the message section, put the
words book Interview, and I'll send you a calendar link
to schedule. It is that simple.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Nice. Well, once again, you're a wealth of information and
help to our listeners. And thank you for coming on
the show every week and giving some great advice. And
once again, we'll see you next week and thanks for
being on the Adventures of Pipemin.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Look forward to it date. Thank you, Thank you for
listening to the Adventures of Patemin on w for CUI Radio.
Hi, you have done to censure fore wow for you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Your welcome back to the Adventures of pipe Man once again,
here with our positively Pipeman segment with our expert resident
guest on business strategies that you're gonna want to find
(00:33):
out about. He has the formula for success and they
are powerful. So let's welcome to the show. Michael Barbarita.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
How are you fantastic? Dane? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Oh beautiful? You know, Uh, I can't be bad. How
can't be bad? Because we're learning things that are going
to help us in our business, which help us in
our personal life, and then everything's great.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I agree, Thanks for having me. You know, it's funny
every one of our pri One of the biggest game changers,
uh for me in learning about selling U for me
was being transformational, not transactional. And this takes practice because
(01:21):
our problem, as as salespeople, business owners, uh, whatever whatever
you may be, uh is our prospects are conditioned to
think transactionally. And I'm gonna explain what that means. But
we we must get them to think transformationally because when
you think about it, just about any product or service
(01:44):
can be transformational. Now, there might be some like if
you sell nuts and bolts, I don't know, maybe that
maybe that's not transformational, but most all products are transformational.
And in order for this concept to work, you must
know and understand your prospect's number one goal, number one dream,
(02:06):
and number one desire. And there is a special technique
that one can use to get to that number one
goal and desire. And let me see if I can
briefly explain it. So like if I was if I
was talking to a business owner, I'd say, you know,
(02:27):
what's your number one goal? And it's say something like, well,
I want to get my business to a million dollars. Great,
you get your business to a million dollars? What will
that do for you? That's a critical statement I just made.
First of all, I repeated it, okay, which is forward pacing,
because I said, you've got the business to a million dollars? Now,
(02:48):
what will that do for you? And so then they'll say,
well that will let's just say that will allow me
to hire someone. Great, you get the business to a
million dollars, you're able to hire someone. What will that
do for you? Ah? Jeez, that'll love free up my time? Awesome.
(03:08):
So you get the business to a million dollars, you
hire a manager or hire someone and uh and and
and freeze up your time. What will that do for you?
Oh man, that that'll allow me to spend more time
with my my my wife and and my kids, go
to my kids soccer games, go on date nights with
(03:30):
my wife, which I haven't been doing at all. That's
when you hit pay direct, okay, because that notice. Notice
it took three or four steps to get to their
number one goal. And by the way, I'd make sure
I ask what the spouse's name is and what the
kids' names are. You'll always get the names of the
(03:52):
people of the of the from your of your prospect
who they love. Yeah, okay, so that you can apply
it later on. So anyway, that that's how you that's
the steps it takes, because the chances that somebody really
gives you their number one goal in the first question
(04:13):
is almost highly unlikely.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
They don't even usually know that's it.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
They don't think about it, right, And the fact that
you're taking them on this journey is going to give
you some points just by virtue of that, because once
you understand their number one goal and desire, you can
make your product transformation. So I'm gonna give you an example.
I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. I'm gonna give
(04:40):
you an example if and I because I'm picking a
difficult product to sell, okay, and so I want.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
To I want to say something first, if they by
listening to last week's episode. This relates to the first
step of last week's episode, which is yep, okay. And
if you haven't listened to it last week's episode, go
back to the podcast anywhere you're listening to podcasts and
listen to it, because you'll see how this episode is
(05:12):
transformational from that episode.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Excellent, excellent. So let's say your product, the service is
selling murals. Now, that's not an easy product to sell.
That's why I picked it. Okay. Now, the problem the
customer has, and that's the first place you really have
to go. But the first the problem the customer has
is usually some emotional need that needs to be fulfilled.
(05:35):
And let me explain it with this example. So let's
say the salesperson finds out that the number one goal
of the prospect is to put a mural in their
child's bedroom in order to create a soothing, safe feeling
environment for better sleep. And emotional wellbeing. That's the prospect's
number one goal. After asking all the questions. They didn't
(05:55):
blurt that out at the beginning. They blurted out something else,
and you know, maybe an inexpensive mural or something to
that effect. But as you dig deeper, you got to
this point where they wanted to create a soothing, safe
feeling environment for better sleep and emotional wellbeing. And by
the way, sometimes you have to lead the customer to
(06:15):
their number one goal.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yep, most of the time in mind, yes.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right, you might you have to lead lead them even
if you because otherwise you're gonna keep saying, well will
that do for you, and they're gonna run out of thought.
So sometimes you might have to say, like in the
case of the mural, how about creat how about what
do you think about creating a soothing self feeling, a
safe feeling environment for better sleep and emotional well being?
(06:41):
And and you know they'll probably react to that favorably
mm hmm, and and say, you know what, that's pretty good.
That would be an objective of mine. So that would
be the prospect's number one goal. And let's say their
child's name is Tom. And by the way, I think
I might have said this before. It's always a good
idea to get the names of people your prospects love.
(07:02):
And when you start talking about price and terms and
how you're going to go about doing the mural, and
your features, advantages and benefits of working with you, which
are all things you have to do. But that's where
it becomes transactional. The customer is hearing the price, and
they're hearing how you go about doing it and so forth,
and they're interested, and that's all important, but that's where
(07:26):
it becomes transactional, and you need to constantly get the
prospect back to transformational. For example, if the prospect says
you know what, I have to think about it, you
would say, oh, you say you have to think about it?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And they would likely say, well, the price of the
mural and the whole program, and you would send say, oh, no, no,
I think we have a bit of a disconnect. As
a matter of fact, I think we're having two different conversations.
This isn't about our the mural, oh my program. Put
that aside, whether you work with me or someone else,
This is about creating a soothing, safe feeling environment for
(08:09):
Tom for better sleep. Emotional wellbeing and giving you both
lasting memories of how well you cared for him. That's
what this is about. I'm sure you don't have to
think about that. So what's happening here and what's going
through the customer's mind? And by the way, they're going
a little berserk at this point because they're torn, Oh yeah,
(08:32):
and because they're connecting what you're offering to the cost
and the transaction. It's your job to constantly get them
back to their number one goal and that makes your
product transformational. And I know that some people are out there.
I can kind of see their faces and they thinking, ooh,
(08:54):
that feels weird. But the most humane thing we can
do is get them out of the torn misery and
help them say yes to themselves. You see, we're not
trying to convince them or trying to get them to
do anything they don't want to do. All we're doing
is keeping them aware of what they said.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
They wanted, and what they said they wanted is usually emotional,
and sales is a transfer of emotion, and that's what
makes it transformational opposed to transactional.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Absolutely absolutely. And the other thing I want to point
out is we have if we truly believe in our
product or service, and this is this is part of
mindset that we talked about in the previous show. If
we truly believe in our product of service, isn't it
our obligation to that customer to help them say yes
(09:50):
to themselves in any way they can, in any way
we can, because the option that we're offering is absolutely,
hands down the best choice for that customer. Well, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You know what's funny about that is when I first
became a professional speaker, I came from a very salesy
environment in the financial business, and I just wanted to
help people. So I kept forgetting every seminar to try
to sell them anything. And somebody gave one of my mentors,
(10:24):
who's you know when the top speaker's out there? He
said something to me, and it really hit home. He goes, well, listen,
if you're truly looking to help people, how much could
you do to help them if you aren't making a living?
You know? And so yes, there's nothing wrong with selling them.
(10:50):
If you're truly trying to help them, why wouldn't you?
And how much help are you going to give them
if you yourself are not even following that lead and
can't pay your own bills.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Right. And here's the other thing I found, Dean, is
when you're truly disconnected to the outcome, then you're more
able to be more present in the conversation, allowing you
to focus on the customer's transformation, which is incredibly more
compelling versus the unpleasantry of focusing on the transaction.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh, no doubt about it. Like to me, the feeling
I get from helping people and fulfilling their needs by
selling them something it's worth way more than whatever they're
paying me, right.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And you believe in your product so that you know
that's the best option that they have. Absolutely, and it's
your obligation. It's your obligation because you are you have
the best offer and product and service that they can get.
And so it's your obligation to help them say yes
to themselves. And by the way, keep saying that people
(12:01):
don't say no to you or yes to you, they
say yes to them or no to themselves. So that's
the other thing. It's a lot of business owners take
the no personally. They're not saying no to you, they're
saying no to themselves. It's our job to get them
to say yes to themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And I'll even add to that that a lot of
times when they're saying no, they just want they want
to see how much you believe in what you're telling them,
because if you waver and give in to them, they
realize you're really not that confident that you could fulfill
their needs and goals.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Good, good point. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, That's why if you
if you're truly if you're truly disconnected, that comes across
meaning you're not out for yourself, You're out for the
customers benefit, not yours. And when when you do that
and you disconnect, it makes it once again you're more
(12:56):
present in the conversation and you're able to make You're
able to keep getting back to the transformation and away
from the transaction, because if you stick with the transaction,
that's a very has very negative annotations to the to
the to the prospect.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So yeah, how do people find out more about this
subject and other subjects that are some powerful business strategies
that they can implement in their business.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, Dan, they just have to go to NEXTSTEPCFO dot net.
They could download by book for free. Uh, they could
go to next STEPCFO dot Net, Forward slash Contact and
what I do with business, what I love to do
with business owners, so that for the next edition of
my book is Interview Business Owners. And the way it
works is it's sixty minutes on zoom. I present strategies
(13:54):
from my book and then I asked the business owner
if a business owner was to implement this strategy in
their industry, what impact would this strategy have, and then
I'd document it for the book. There's nothing to buy,
but I promise the business owner that they'll learn business
and financial strategies that their competition isn't doing. So if
(14:14):
they go to NEXTSTEPCFO, dot net, Forward slash Contact, fill
out the contact form in the message section, put the
words book Interview, and I'll send you a calendar link
to schedule. It is that simple.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Nice. Well, once again, you're a wealth of information and
help to our listeners. And thank you for coming on
the show every week and giving some great advice. And
once again, we'll see you next week and thanks for
being on the Adventures of Pipemin.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Look forward to it date. Thank you, Thank you for
listening to the Adventures of Patemin on w for CUI Radio.
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