November 10, 2025 • 10 mins
A strategy that makes your offer compelling and that Business Owners should use more often.
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•Pipeman Radio
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Click Here to Subscribe to The Adventures of Pipeman for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Take some zany and serious journeys with The Pipeman aka Dean K. Piper, CST on The Adventures of Pipeman also known as Pipeman Radio syndicated globally “Where Who Knows And Anything Goes.”
Would you like to be a sponsor of the show?
Would you like to have your business, products, services, merch, programs, books, music or any other professional or artistic endeavors promoted on the show?
Would you like interviewed as a professional or music guest on The Adventures of Pipeman, Positively Pipeman and/or Pipeman in the Pit?
Would you like to host your own Radio Show, Streaming TV Show, or Podcast? PipemanRadio Podcasts are heard on Pipeman Radio, Talk 4 Media, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Amazon Music, Audible, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and over 100 other podcast outlets where you listen to Podcasts.
The following are the different podcasts to Follow, Listen, Download, Subscribe:
•The Adventures of Pipeman
•Pipeman Radio
•Pipeman in the Pit – Music Interviews & Festivals
•Positively Pipeman – Empowerment, Inspiration, Motivation, Self-Help, Business, Spiritual & Health & Wellness
Click Here to Subscribe for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Follow @pipemanradio on all socials & Pipeman Radio Requests & Info at www.linktr.ee/pipemanradio
Stream The Adventures of Pipeman daily & live Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays at 1PM ET on W4CY Radio & Talk 4 TV.
Download, Rate & Review the Podcast at The Adventures of Pipeman, Pipeman Radio, Talk 4 Media, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, YouTube & All Podcast Apps.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, you have done too, dear censure, Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
For you your This is the pipe Man here on
the Avengers Pipe Man W four c Y Radio with
my Positively Pipeman segment and once again we're gonna have
a resident expert talk about some powerful business strategies. So
(00:32):
let's welcome to the show. Michael Barbarina from Next Step CFO.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Thank you, Thank you Dean. Great to be here again.
So today I want to talk about something that business owners.
I don't know why they're hesitant, although I have three
reasons later on why I think they're hesitant. But it's
a strategy that works very well. It's because the customer
doesn't want to look like a fool, doesn't want to
(00:57):
make a mistake, doesn't want to be embarrassed with their spouse.
But it's called a risk reversal. And what a risk
reversal does is it transfers the risk from the customer
to the seller and it makes it easier for the
(01:18):
customer to say yes to your offer. So, and what
happens is is business owners one of the things they
think about is they think that they're going to get
a lot of returns or that customers are not. You know,
their customers are going to take full advantage of the
business owner, because that's all customers do, is they take
(01:39):
full advantage and they try to get as much out
of it as humanly possible, even if it means you know,
you know, returning everything and getting double their money back
or whatever that risk reversal happens to be. That's not
the case. And I can tell you my quick story
when I was in the ski business. The problem the
customer had the ski and is that they really never
(02:01):
knew if the ski they were being sold was the
right ski for them until they got it up in
the mountain and tried it out. And so we implemented
what we call the ski guarantee ski of the ski
three times you don't like it, bring it back for
a brand new pair, and keep bringing it back until
we get it right. And the result was eight thousand
pair of skis sold, a twenty five percent increase from
(02:22):
the previous year, and only eight came back. Because all
people wanted was a great ski experience, and all people
want is whatever your product or service delivers, to have
a great experience with it. That's it. Sure, there's going
to be a couple of people who might take advantage
of it. But you're dealing with the law of large numbers,
(02:44):
which means your entire customer base. Out of your entire
customer base, believe me, only a very small percentage, you're
going to take advantage of the offer. And what I
find is is when I present this to clients, they're
really hesitant. But there's three reasons why a business owner
(03:07):
resists doing a risk reversal. Number one, they're not confident
in their product or service or their quality, which is
a big problem if that's the case, because you have
to you have to be in a position, whether relatives
how confident you are about your product, that it's your
obligation to your obligation to sell that product to that
(03:29):
customer because you offer the best period for them. And
if you're not that confident with your product or service,
then I can understand why you're not doing a risk reversal.
The other thing is business owners don't really understand the
mathematics involved in the value of the long term value
(03:52):
of a customer. And when you understand the long term
value of a customer and you understand that the risk
reversal is going to convert more of those customers into sales.
Then not only do you have more sales today, but
your future the future value of that customer is now
(04:13):
in play, and you're going to increase the value of
that customer. So it's incredibly valuable once you get a customer,
because once you get a customer, there's a lifetime value
component to it. They're going to order again and again
and again. And because of that, the risk reversal is
(04:35):
an outstanding strategy because you're going to convert more people
to say yes to your offer. And then the third
reason why business owners resist risk reversals is they're thinking
like employees instead of strategic business owners. And let me
tell you, when I presented my ski guarantee to my staff,
(04:59):
I thought I was out of my mind because they
had visions of thousands of pair of skis coming back
and us losing a ton of money and it'll never
work and boy, we'll lose our shirt. But that didn't
happen at all. That the mindset of a business owner
is number one. The competition may not be in position
(05:19):
to do it. By the way, my competitives never ever
copied me on that. They never did Wow, yeah, they
never did.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
But but you know, the competition is going to either
be slow to the draw because you're going to be
first doing it, or uh, they're not going to be
have the logistical positioning to do it. They might not
have or the mindset themselves to do it. So uh
that but that's thinking like a business owner, and thinking
like a business owner is knowing that all you're doing
(05:55):
is giving the customer a great experience because your product
or service is superior. And if you don't think your
product the service is superior, that's big trouble.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That's why they didn't compete. When your competitors didn't follow
suit with.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
You, I know they were they were afraid to do it,
and they didn't know how great we're doing with it.
Although you know, rumors do get out unfortunately they do
a lot of and a lot of businesses they do,
especially within an industry. But and so the fact that
we were doing well didn't didn't drive them motivate them
(06:31):
to copy it. And it was a simple thing to copy.
It's not really It didn't really take much of a
logistical thing other than how do you handle a return,
which is kind of commonplace anyway.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, that's why so many companies, especially when you see
ads on TV or on the radio or you know,
even a lot of speakers do it. You know, they
always have that thirty day guarantee and they have that
three day guarantee because they're thing that you're not going
to return.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Absolutely, there's no question about it. And that's but that's
the big hang up that we business owners have. We're
just thinking that all the customers going to do is
utilize the ski because with my ski guarantee, they could
ski the ski. I don't know how many times they
could ski the t ten times and bring it back
and I wouldn't know it right right, so uh and
(07:25):
and they could and they could, and what they could do,
what they could have done is every three weeks, every
four weeks, bring it back and try something else, because
skiers love to try different right skis, and so they
could have done that. But all they wanted was the
great ski experience with the skis that they had. If
it was right for them, great, it made their experience better,
(07:47):
and we did our job and there it is. Yeah,
it's just it's just amazing how business owners are afraid
to use that strategy, and it's an outstanding strategy you knows,
the customers saying to themselves, I don't want to look
foolish here, you know, or I don't want to have
(08:08):
to explain to my spouse how I got taken. Yeah, okay,
you know. So these are the things that are going
through the mind of the customer. They want to make
sure that they're not being taken and that uh, you
know that the product is going to deliver what it's
what it says it.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Will deliver absolutely, So how do people reach out to
you get more information on this and other things that
you do to give them powerful business strategies.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, what we do, Dean, we do something a little
different than than most most companies. What we do is
we we are always looking to update our book with
you know, new and different ideas, and so what we
do is it's called a book interview, and basically it's
sixty minutes on Zoom, I present strategies for my book
(08:58):
and then I asked the interviewe. I asked them, if
is is someone that were to implement this strategy that
I just presented, what impact would it have to a
business in your industry? And then I documented for the book,
uh and base and by the way, if I, if
I like some of their quotes, I actually put the
quote in the book along with their name and company
(09:19):
name if they if they want that, and sometimes they
are not. They want to be anonymous, but so I
so it gives them a little exposure as well. But
more importantly, they'll learn business strategies that their competition isn't doing.
So uh by to ask for a book interview, just
go to NeXTSTEP CFO dot net forward slash contact, fill
(09:41):
out that contact form in the message section, write the
word book interview, and I'll send you a calendar link
to schedule. And as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Beautiful. I love it. Once again the wealth of knowledge
that can help business people be successful and profitable. They
need to make sure to tune in next this week.
Also to the positively Pipemine's segment with you as our
expert given some powerful business strategies. That next week we're
(10:11):
going to talk about a cash collection strategy, So make
sure to tune in and thanks Michael for once again
being the expert that you are.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Thank you to pleasure to be here, Thank you for
listening to the adventures of pipemin I'm w for CUI Radio.
Hi, you have done too, dear censure, Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
For you your This is the pipe Man here on
the Avengers Pipe Man W four c Y Radio with
my Positively Pipeman segment and once again we're gonna have
a resident expert talk about some powerful business strategies. So
(00:32):
let's welcome to the show. Michael Barbarina from Next Step CFO.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Thank you, Thank you Dean. Great to be here again.
So today I want to talk about something that business owners.
I don't know why they're hesitant, although I have three
reasons later on why I think they're hesitant. But it's
a strategy that works very well. It's because the customer
doesn't want to look like a fool, doesn't want to
(00:57):
make a mistake, doesn't want to be embarrassed with their spouse.
But it's called a risk reversal. And what a risk
reversal does is it transfers the risk from the customer
to the seller and it makes it easier for the
(01:18):
customer to say yes to your offer. So, and what
happens is is business owners one of the things they
think about is they think that they're going to get
a lot of returns or that customers are not. You know,
their customers are going to take full advantage of the
business owner, because that's all customers do, is they take
(01:39):
full advantage and they try to get as much out
of it as humanly possible, even if it means you know,
you know, returning everything and getting double their money back
or whatever that risk reversal happens to be. That's not
the case. And I can tell you my quick story
when I was in the ski business. The problem the
customer had the ski and is that they really never
(02:01):
knew if the ski they were being sold was the
right ski for them until they got it up in
the mountain and tried it out. And so we implemented
what we call the ski guarantee ski of the ski
three times you don't like it, bring it back for
a brand new pair, and keep bringing it back until
we get it right. And the result was eight thousand
pair of skis sold, a twenty five percent increase from
(02:22):
the previous year, and only eight came back. Because all
people wanted was a great ski experience, and all people
want is whatever your product or service delivers, to have
a great experience with it. That's it. Sure, there's going
to be a couple of people who might take advantage
of it. But you're dealing with the law of large numbers,
(02:44):
which means your entire customer base. Out of your entire
customer base, believe me, only a very small percentage, you're
going to take advantage of the offer. And what I
find is is when I present this to clients, they're
really hesitant. But there's three reasons why a business owner
(03:07):
resists doing a risk reversal. Number one, they're not confident
in their product or service or their quality, which is
a big problem if that's the case, because you have
to you have to be in a position, whether relatives
how confident you are about your product, that it's your
obligation to your obligation to sell that product to that
(03:29):
customer because you offer the best period for them. And
if you're not that confident with your product or service,
then I can understand why you're not doing a risk reversal.
The other thing is business owners don't really understand the
mathematics involved in the value of the long term value
(03:52):
of a customer. And when you understand the long term
value of a customer and you understand that the risk
reversal is going to convert more of those customers into sales.
Then not only do you have more sales today, but
your future the future value of that customer is now
(04:13):
in play, and you're going to increase the value of
that customer. So it's incredibly valuable once you get a customer,
because once you get a customer, there's a lifetime value
component to it. They're going to order again and again
and again. And because of that, the risk reversal is
(04:35):
an outstanding strategy because you're going to convert more people
to say yes to your offer. And then the third
reason why business owners resist risk reversals is they're thinking
like employees instead of strategic business owners. And let me
tell you, when I presented my ski guarantee to my staff,
(04:59):
I thought I was out of my mind because they
had visions of thousands of pair of skis coming back
and us losing a ton of money and it'll never
work and boy, we'll lose our shirt. But that didn't
happen at all. That the mindset of a business owner
is number one. The competition may not be in position
(05:19):
to do it. By the way, my competitives never ever
copied me on that. They never did Wow, yeah, they
never did.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
But but you know, the competition is going to either
be slow to the draw because you're going to be
first doing it, or uh, they're not going to be
have the logistical positioning to do it. They might not
have or the mindset themselves to do it. So uh
that but that's thinking like a business owner, and thinking
like a business owner is knowing that all you're doing
(05:55):
is giving the customer a great experience because your product
or service is superior. And if you don't think your
product the service is superior, that's big trouble.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That's why they didn't compete. When your competitors didn't follow
suit with.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
You, I know they were they were afraid to do it,
and they didn't know how great we're doing with it.
Although you know, rumors do get out unfortunately they do
a lot of and a lot of businesses they do,
especially within an industry. But and so the fact that
we were doing well didn't didn't drive them motivate them
(06:31):
to copy it. And it was a simple thing to copy.
It's not really It didn't really take much of a
logistical thing other than how do you handle a return,
which is kind of commonplace anyway.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, that's why so many companies, especially when you see
ads on TV or on the radio or you know,
even a lot of speakers do it. You know, they
always have that thirty day guarantee and they have that
three day guarantee because they're thing that you're not going
to return.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Absolutely, there's no question about it. And that's but that's
the big hang up that we business owners have. We're
just thinking that all the customers going to do is
utilize the ski because with my ski guarantee, they could
ski the ski. I don't know how many times they
could ski the t ten times and bring it back
and I wouldn't know it right right, so uh and
(07:25):
and they could and they could, and what they could do,
what they could have done is every three weeks, every
four weeks, bring it back and try something else, because
skiers love to try different right skis, and so they
could have done that. But all they wanted was the
great ski experience with the skis that they had. If
it was right for them, great, it made their experience better,
(07:47):
and we did our job and there it is. Yeah,
it's just it's just amazing how business owners are afraid
to use that strategy, and it's an outstanding strategy you knows,
the customers saying to themselves, I don't want to look
foolish here, you know, or I don't want to have
(08:08):
to explain to my spouse how I got taken. Yeah, okay,
you know. So these are the things that are going
through the mind of the customer. They want to make
sure that they're not being taken and that uh, you
know that the product is going to deliver what it's
what it says it.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Will deliver absolutely, So how do people reach out to
you get more information on this and other things that
you do to give them powerful business strategies.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, what we do, Dean, we do something a little
different than than most most companies. What we do is
we we are always looking to update our book with
you know, new and different ideas, and so what we
do is it's called a book interview, and basically it's
sixty minutes on Zoom, I present strategies for my book
(08:58):
and then I asked the interviewe. I asked them, if
is is someone that were to implement this strategy that
I just presented, what impact would it have to a
business in your industry? And then I documented for the book,
uh and base and by the way, if I, if
I like some of their quotes, I actually put the
quote in the book along with their name and company
(09:19):
name if they if they want that, and sometimes they
are not. They want to be anonymous, but so I
so it gives them a little exposure as well. But
more importantly, they'll learn business strategies that their competition isn't doing.
So uh by to ask for a book interview, just
go to NeXTSTEP CFO dot net forward slash contact, fill
(09:41):
out that contact form in the message section, write the
word book interview, and I'll send you a calendar link
to schedule. And as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Beautiful. I love it. Once again the wealth of knowledge
that can help business people be successful and profitable. They
need to make sure to tune in next this week.
Also to the positively Pipemine's segment with you as our
expert given some powerful business strategies. That next week we're
(10:11):
going to talk about a cash collection strategy, So make
sure to tune in and thanks Michael for once again
being the expert that you are.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Thank you to pleasure to be here, Thank you for
listening to the adventures of pipemin I'm w for CUI Radio.
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