May 21, 2025 • 49 mins
Founded in 1731, Bouchard Père & Fils is one of the oldest and most diverse wine estates in Burgundy with 130 hectares of vineyards in prestige appellations of both the Côte de Beaune and Côte de Nuit, mostly Premiers and Grands Crus. Its 15th century château in Beaune houses the largest private collection of old burgundies, including a Meursault Charmes 1846. Technical Director Frédéric Weber discusses its history and six Premiers and Grands Crus selections. IG @bouchardpereetfils #TCTSips
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The topics and opinions express and the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,
explicit or implied shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:21):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live where your hosts Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
bring you the global thought leaders who shape the world
of wine, food, spirits and hospitality, and we do it
with great joy to help you understand the world old
as it is and what to eat and drink. You
(01:02):
can hear all our shows on almost fifty podcast channels
around the world right now.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Absolutely Melanie growing every year as well.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, so we invite you to follow us on Instagram
at the Connected Table. On this show, we're inaugurating a
news series. We have decided to take our listeners around
the world and spotlight the stories of masters of wine.
The masters of wine. I equate it to like having
a PhD. In wine. It is a big important designation,
much like a PhD. It takes many years to accomplish,
(01:32):
and we know many educators and wine writers and other
professionals who have it. I mean, we want to spotlight
those of achievement and do it around the world so
we can then also kind of have a global respective
from other people outside of the United States, right David.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, absolutely, Melanie. We kind of hit on this because
we wanted to tell the story of wine through the
eyes of the people that are most accomplished in wine
education and have gotten the highest education in wine. And
a lot of them focus on a specific region, maybe
where they live, or they focus on a special style
of wine, so they all have a purpose as to
what they work on. Not everybody is a journalist like
(02:05):
we are because we report on wine around the world,
but AMW's do. They really do have a singular focus
a lot of the time. So we want to talk
to them about how they got into wine and what
they have accomplished in wine, and then talked to them
about the wines that they focus on.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So today we're taking you to South Africa. This is
a country we love. We've only visited once. David had
visited as a youth, and we're speaking with Kathy Bonzel.
She became the first Master of Wine on the African
continent when she passed the notoriously difficult, as we said,
prestigious MW examination in two thousand and five. She is
an editor at Platters The South African Wine Guy, which
(02:42):
is the Bible. We have the twenty twenty three edition
here courtesy of our friend Suzanne Long, who is an
importer of South Africa wine. She is a South African
and she has South to South imports in Louisiana. We're
really excited to get some perspective from South Africa. So
Kathy Vonseil, welcome to the at the table.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Thank you so much, Melanie, Thank you so much. David.
I'm super excited. I don't believe that South Africa is
your first.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well, it holds a very dear place in my heart
and Melanie's. We spent our pre wedding honeymoon in South Africa,
and I was there in nineteen eighty one, if you
can believe it, when I was a teenager and I
spent seven weeks roaming around Southern Africa with a group
of other high school students and just had a great summer.
And I fell in love with South Africa in particular
(03:32):
while I was on that trip.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
That was a long time ago and historically and politically
quite different. It's very interesting. Let's talk about you. You're
originally from Johannesburg. Tell us about growing up in South Africa.
What was it like back then?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, yes, it was completely different back then, you know, David.
In nineteen eighty one, I was writing my Metrick examinations,
which is South Final Europe High School, and at that
stage we were living in a party at South Africa.
(04:07):
So it was quite a different world from what it
is for us today. I have to admit, because about
how I grew up in South Africa, and because of
the political regime and the laws we followed, I actually
had an absolutely I think adylic childhood. My parents weren't
(04:27):
very rich. We did have to scrimp and save, and
I do know that friends of mine whose dads were
doctors or white collar workers, whereas my dad was a
blue collar worker, they used to get things far easier
than I did that, I really lucked for nothing. I
had so much fun, and I enjoyed life to the full,
(04:51):
and I really enjoyed interacting with my parents and my family.
But the one thing about joe Burg is that it's
definitely not wine country. It's continental South Africa, so the
summers are fiercely hot and the winters are icy cold,
and not your Mediterranean climate, which is where I'm living
(05:15):
now in the Western Cape. I moved down to the
Western Cape with my husband in nineteen ninety five, so
we've been here for a while and really enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I know you live south of Cape Town in the
Western Cape, and it's a beautiful area and definitely a
much more I think you would say, a Mediterranean climate,
but it's a much more ocean driven climate as well,
and we'll talk about that a little bit later. Tell
us about what led you into wine, because growing up
in joe Burg, which is, as you said, is not
(05:47):
wine country. I've been there. It's basically a desert, and
so you actually got into wine at some point. But
tell us how that happened. Was there a moment, was
there a bottle, Was there an encounter that you said, ah,
this might be for me.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Well, actually, part of that idyllic childhood I had that
was filled with sports and school and academic achievement and.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Club sports, school sports and everything. I didn't sit still
for a minute. I want you to know I was
actually I think now I could be described as a
precocious teenager because part of that childhood was going around
to friends homes over the weekend and while their parents
were out, we would bry or barbecue as you know
(06:32):
it in the States, and just hang out with a
gang of friends. And at that stage my friends, the
naughty little children, were drinking rum and Coca cola, and
we'd be about sixteen or seventeen, completely underage drinking, and
that's what they would be drinking. And I say I
(06:54):
was precocious because I decided I didn't like rum and
Coca cola. It was too sweet for me. And I
didn't like the gyms and tonics. They were at that
stage to bitter for me. So I thought I'll drink wine.
Because my grandfather used to treat us every Christmas and
take us to the Older Audience Club and he would
buy the wine and we'd drink it with our Christmas dinner.
(07:17):
Other than that, my parents didn't have alcohol in the house,
so I went off to the right page of about sixteen.
I went off to a bottle store and I started
buying red wine that I would drink with my friends
on Saturdays or Sundays at their house. They would be
drinking lots of rum and coke and I would be
(07:39):
sipping my read wine, and so I actually did quite
enjoy it. But I didn't really know much more about
the wine scene, you know, living up in Johannesburg in
the Highfeldt, where everything is beige during winter when the
grass dies down, and not being in the family in
which wine was part of our culture except for Christmas,
(08:03):
I really didn't know much about wine. So I got
into wine when I met my husband, and then he
and I decided those was our drink of choice. But
the real turning point came when we were at my
parents' house one Saturday for a bride and Philip saw
a Cape Wine Academy preliminary Wine course booklet lying around
(08:27):
and he picked it up. And he looked at this
book and he asked her if she enjoyed the course,
and she said yes, very much. So so at that
stage I was nuts about cycling and I'd already done
one archur cycle to it. But my friend who'd done
it with me that very the year before, she said,
I'm not cycling it ever again. Been there, got the
(08:48):
T shirt. That's enough for me. I thought, no, got
to do it again. It was so much fun. So
Philip said to me, okay, would you go on this
preliminary wine course with me? So I said, okay, for sure,
if you cycle the Argus cycle tour with me. So
we did both. We went on the preliminary wine course
(09:09):
and Philip cycle an Argus cycle tour with me, and
that rarely got us into the world of wine. I
think that these wine schools can be very devious, you know.
They gave us very good marks for our first examination
or first test that we said we thought we were
the bee's knees and this was easy and we were
(09:29):
going to conquer it all. And so we signed up
for the certificate course. Then we signed up for the
diploma course, and then that was it. We were totally
bitten by the wine boat, so much so that at
a friend's wedding in the Drakensburg one morning, the morning
just before we got ready to go to the wedding,
(09:49):
Philip said to me, Kathy, do you think that you
could do what you do from the Western Cape? I said, yeah,
why do you ask me that? Because I think we
should move to the Cape to be closer to the vines,
and that way you and I could both maybe get
into the wine industry. At that stage, Philip and I
(10:10):
were both freelance journalists. I'd been a marketing journalist, Philip
had been a computer journalist. And it was the late
eighties start of the nineties when this happened, and it
was when you know, big computers, computers really burst into
the scene in South Africa, and so Philip became a
(10:31):
computer journalist and then he started writing press releases for
public relations firms because the bunnies and balloons girls couldn't
understand computer speak, and we thought that we could. We
could take this careers, both writing forsrooms down to the Cape.
We were the first, I think ever, I was the
(10:54):
first in the marketing industry to get an email address.
My email address is Kathy at Africa dot com. No
ones and twos know anything funny and it just played Kathy.
I was the first one to get that man address.
And we moved in nineteen ninety five, so that was it.
(11:15):
So when we're in the Darkensburg waiting to go to
the Striends wedding, I said, to put up safe if
we moved to the Cape, what we're going to do.
He said, well, I don't know. We'll have to carry
on doing what we do, but maybe we can try
and move into the into the wine industry. And I
looked at him and I said, do you know what
John and Erica Platter, they're getting old now. Surely what
(11:38):
we could do is just go down there and take
over the Platter's Wine Guide from men. And Philip looked
at me kind of strangely, and we moved to the Cape.
And after a few months he had done a little
bit of writing for all wine magazines in South Africa
and was starting to get invitations to attend wine events.
(12:00):
And he came back from one one day and he said,
guess who I sat next to you? And I said,
I have not the foggiest and he said, Erica plattin.
And she tells me that she and John are selling
the Platt as wine Guy, and as part of the deal,
she needs to find an editor to take over from her.
I said, Oh, that's interesting. He said, yes, I'm expecting
(12:22):
a call from the new publisher, And with that Philip
got a call from Andrew McDowell, who was the new
owner of The Flatus Wine Guy. Philip met Andrew, and
Andrew offered him the job, and within a week he
was appointed as the editor of The Flat As Wine
guid So you see, the moral of the story is
from my lips to God's ears sometimes.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Well, certainly serendipitous.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
That serendipitous, But there's a couple of important points in there.
You made a strategy.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You were in other.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Careers, which many people who aspired to work in way are,
and you held on to that. You made a strategic
decision to move to be closer to the vines, which
I do feel is important if you're going to be immersed.
And you threw yourself out of the world, and they
call that manifestation. Philip sat next to Erica Platter, and
the Platters Wine Guide has been around for how long?
Nineteen eight eight and you and Philip as a Philip
(13:18):
editor and your associate editor, so wonderful that you are
able to work on such an enriching, wonderful guide together
have been doing this for how long with Platters.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Well, in order to not be accused of nepotism, Philip
never considered asking me to join him as a taster
on Fatter while he was being editor because he took
over in ninety eight. So I got my master's to
wine and it was one of the very first questions.
He asked me, if could you join Platter as a
(13:48):
toaster now please, Kathy, and I thought, yeah, just like
Philip makes me go through all the hoops and hurdles
just so that my tasting ability and my knowledge of
wine can't be criticized, because yeah, potentially he could have
been taken up on epotism if he's just put his
wife on the team.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Oh, I know how that goes on. I had a
company that I ran for many years prior to this.
I hired David to work with me after we were
already a couple because he was so knowledge about wine
and we were doing major wine events and I had
to navigate this that very carefully and so we understand it.
But the point is, you get the best people for
the best job, and you need to think regardless of
(14:29):
who they are and what the connection is, and you
as a master of wine. We're clearly qualified and this
is a wonderful guide. I mean, it is as we
said in the beginning the Bible of South Africa. I'm
curious it's been going on, as we said since nineteen
eighty and the industry has changed enormously. South Africa has
had lots of opportunities, but also lots of challenges. We
(14:50):
know that because we know that. You know, there's been
programs with wines of South Africa over the years. They've come,
they've gone. Knowing that you have a platform to talk
to a global audience, what are you most excited about
that you want to share about the wines of South Africa.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Firstly, I would like
to say, drink Shennon. It's a wonderful, great variety that's
doing really well in South Africa. And there's not for nothing,
widely regarded as South Africa's signature white grape. Our winemakers
have truly thrown themselves at this grape and they are
(15:24):
making wonderful Shennons of a variety of different styles. So
it's something that sets us apart. So I think you
should look out for shennon because there are so many
wonderful Shennons at really good prices. The other thing is,
although I've asked you to look at shennon, don't be
afraid to try anything else. Because our winemakers are really skilled.
(15:48):
They took on board the learnings of the late nineties
and the early two thousands. You know, before that winemakers
or producers would go there and say, I want to
make this wine and the consumer must drink it regardless.
In the late nineties early two thousands, when we got
let back into the world after Mandela was freed and
(16:09):
we held our first democratic elections, they learned that they've
got to create the best wines that they can that
speak to the there are, but at the same style,
they've got to appeal to consumers. So our wines these
days are more consumer driven and meet the needs of
the market. You know, the Western Case where I am
living now is one of the ten natural wonders of
(16:32):
the world because of the diversity of our flower kingdom
in this little patch of earth that I live in.
In fact, we have more species of flora in the
Western Cape than you have in the whole of the
Northern Hemisphere. And I think that diversity is reflected in
our wines. We're going to talk about it later, but
(16:54):
the teras of South Africa, particularly the aspects the proximity
to the ocean and the sea breezes and that maritime
influence means that we have many diverse micro ecosystems in
which to grow grapes, and so there are little pockets
of brilliance everywhere, and brilliance that comes to you at
(17:18):
very good prices, and they're at even better prices. Our
big branded wines are made to a really high standard.
So I really think my message to you guys is
to just give South African wines a chance. By everything
that's on the shelf, taste it and see what it delivers,
(17:39):
and then I believe you will understand that we do
have something special to offer the world of wine.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Well, I've read South Africa as some of the oldest
soils dating back billions of years, and Shannon is like
eighteen percent of the market right now.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Shannon is eighteen percent of our bannette plantings. And yes,
our soil are among the oldest of the oldest wort
wine And the reason for that is that when you
used to have that one big super continent this inland
sea formed and over many many years the mud settled,
then the crustacea, more mud, et cetera, and it built
(18:17):
up and up and up and up, and then as
the continents split apart and Falkland Plateau then came apparently
tearing back to the African continent. It collided with the
southern tip of Africa and it pushed all those ancient
soils to the surface, and those are called the Cape
Cold Mountains, and that is on which we plant our
(18:40):
vineyards today.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
South Africa has a long history of making wine. Kathy
first wines were planted in the sixteen fifties. What I'd
love to do is to kind of dial it back
and talk about the history of South African wine for
a few minutes for those of our listeners that don't
know much about South Africa and its history and making wine.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yes, so the first vines were planted in sixteen fifty five,
and we believe that these were Krin growth fronts growth
and Steen and Krindrave turned out to be Semion and
steam which was named as Steen because people who planted
it and worked with it actually thought it was a
(19:17):
German variety. So that's linked to Stein. And Stein. But
in nineteen sixty three it was discovered that steam was
actually Shannon, and so Shannon today plays in a very
important role. So I think that nineteen sixty three is
one of the milestones in South Africa. And do you
know that fifty two percent of all of our old
vine vineyards are Shennon vineyards, So that's also really very
(19:42):
very important. But going back to this the milestones, let's
start at the very beginning. South Africa is also quite
unique in that we actually know, we have documented proof
of when our wine industry started, because young van Riebeck,
the governor of the Cape, wrote in his diary on
the second of February sixteen fifty nine, today, praise be
(20:06):
to God, wine was made for the first time from
the Cape grapes, documented proof that was definitely a start
of the industry. Another one that I'm particularly fond of
is seventeen sixty one because that is when the mines
of Constantia started being exporting to Europe. And by seventeen
(20:27):
eighty eight, those luscious dessert wines of Constantia were winning
acclaim throughout Europe. You know the story they featured in
the books of Jane Austen. It was drunk by Napoleon
while he was in exile, et cetera, et cetera. Obviously,
eighteen eighty six we have to talk about some disaster
that was when Bilosra destroyed millions of ye the cape.
(20:51):
We did then turn to the US and to American
rootstuffs to help bring our industry back up to speed.
And what discussion about Africa would not be complete without
a discussion about pinotage. Nineteen twenty five, Professor Perrault successfully
cross pollinated thin av permutage, which is actually sins, to
(21:13):
develop our own first grape variety called the pinotage. And
in nineteen sixty one the first pinotage, which was in
nineteen fifty nine was marketed on the market under the
Lansaak nabel, which still exists today. And then in another
really big milestone with nineteen seventy three, our wine of
(21:34):
origin was instituted. Can I get geeky about the wine
of origin? It's vitally important. So it guarantees that when
an origin is written on the nabel, that one hundred
percent of those grapes come from that region. So if
it says Stellinbosh one hundred percent of the grapes come
(21:56):
from Stellenbosch. It also guarantees in law I'm now with
EU legislation that if it says cabinet or it says
another variety on the nable, that eighty five percent of
that variety is in that bottle. And it also guarantees
that if it has a vintage, it means that eighty
(22:17):
five percent of the carvest comes from that vintage. So
that's why nineteen seventy three is so important because of
this one of origin legislation. The other thing that I
think is a milestone is two thousand and nineteen when
the Old Vine's Project launched the Certified Heritage Vineyard Seals
(22:38):
that members can play on bottles of wine made from vineyards.
It's thirty five years in older. Each single one of
these middle stickers actually indicates the yo that that vineyard
was planted in. And so this certification seal, which is
of world first nobody else has it, guarantees authentic wines
growed according to the Old Vine Product, viticultural and wine
(23:01):
making guidelines.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know, that's a really good point. We've done a
lot of work in Europe and one of the ones
that we think of always as old vines as Spain.
There's a ton of old vines grown in Spain, but
you never know quite how old they are. So this
designation that you folks have come up with puts a
number on it and makes it official.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
You raise a point, they David that in Spain they've
got many, many, many vineyards of old vines, and often
those old vines are one hundred years or older. So
you know, why would South Africa be thirty five years in?
Older Africa is a hard place. And Iven Saudi famous winemaker,
and then I know quite well I've asked him that
question thirty five years even. He says, look, Kathy, you've
(23:42):
got to be tough to grow up in Africa, and
vines that make it to fifty years in South Africa
or sixty five years in South Africa are really tough
old vines. And I agree with him. Look a lot
of the vineyards that the Old Vine Project has certified
asked much older than thirty five years. Mflow Kirston is
(24:03):
the oldest Shennon vignit and that was planted in nineteen
oh five. And then a shout out to my friend
Brussa Kruger who was the founder of the Old Vine Project.
She became the first pretty cultist and first South African
to be inducted into the Cantor Magazine Hall of Fame
last year. So a lot of milestones, huh, A.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Lot of milestones for us. It's a fascinating country for
a lot of reasons. But the wines are just so
wonderful down there. It's had a lot of growth over
the years. Especially lately, there seem to be more wine
regions than ever in South Africa. Tell us a little
bit about the expansion in wine making in South Africa
and are there hurdles that it's going through as well
at this time.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
One of our biggest hurtles challenging us right now is
load shedding. Load shedding is when there's a blackout, when
your electricity supply commission switches off the big plug in
its office and stops sending electricity to designated areas within
the country. And this has been going on and off
for about ten years now. This year we've had load
(25:05):
shedding every single day. Some days out of twenty four hours,
I won't have electricity in my house for seven and
a half hours, not all at one go. They very
kindly break it up into small chunks for US two
and a half hours here, two and a half hours there.
But it has a very profound impact and is having
a profound impact on the winemakers and the wine industry.
(25:29):
I was chatting to Chris Williams, who used to be
the winemaker meal List but is now left Mealist and
he's focusing on his own brand called The Boundary, And
Chris was saying that he's lost forty percent of the
time in his cellar at this harvest alone because of
the consistent and persistent load shedding. Sometimes he says he
has to get home at four o'clock and then wake
(25:52):
up at ten to go to the winery at eleven
o'clock at night because only now is he going to
be able to put his wines through the press.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
That must be very frustrating to everybody in the business,
because because if you're in the industry, you know that
growing grapes and making wine is a very scheduled activity,
so you can't just do it on a whim. Everything
has to happened at a certain time, so it must
be very frustrating. I could completely understand that.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
You know, Kathy in Europe we're hearing the same thing
about the electrical issues. It seems to be a global problem.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
It's just dreadful. And I hate to say this, but
twenty years ago in that our current government was warned
that the infrastructure was failing and that they should invest
in renewables, and they took a decision not to invest
in renewables. And it's come, as they say in that
well worn proverb, to bite us on the fund and
it's going to take us a long time to dig
(26:39):
out a bit. Those are challenges we're facing at the moment.
You asked me about the spread of the thing. It's
so the best known region Stellenbosh is still absolutely a
pool in the South African wine industries oyster because it
is an utterly beautiful place to be. The k Dutch
architecture is very prevalent, so it's beautiful from an architectural
(27:02):
point of view, from a scenery point of view. There
are families here that have been making wine because for
your four or five generations, and they know their soils
and they know what they need to do to make
great wine. So there's a great deal of history there.
Similarly with places in Constantia and Pole but as the
winemakers have moved out into other areas. Look, the swat
(27:24):
Blunt has come under a lot of focus, not recently
actually have been now almost fifteen years since they had
their Swatland Revolution and showed what South Africa could do
with grown great varieties. And you had Andrea and Chris
Mullen your team with Evan Sardi and Ardie Bardenhost and
Mark Kink's winemaker Kulli Low from Porcelain bach I forget
(27:49):
who the other one was. Oh, but anyway, they launched
the Swatland Revolution. But you've got to remember that the
Swotland was actually has always been a producer of a
lot of grapes. Although the focus on quality wine out
of the region is on growing varieties, it's a source
(28:10):
of very good pinetat. A lot of grape growers make
their fortune because there's a lot of cabinet Southern in there,
and they even plant chardonnay in the slant. But you
never care about that. And you know, as far back
as fifty years ago, Charles back from Fairview was very
interested in the Swap London, the potential that it had,
(28:34):
and he and a few others started a winery called
Spice Route and that's where Evan Sadie actually Cutty's chief
of winemaker. He was winemakers for child that Spice moved
for many years. Saw the potential and that's why he
kind of looked to invest in the place. Evans just planted,
(28:55):
just planted, I think seven years ago. He started planted
in his own and he has in the Swipeland, and
he's looking at grape varieties that perhaps are going to
cushion the swipe plant from global warming. Most of the
vines that have been that have been planted in the
(29:16):
Swipeland are to bush vine and or chela and most
of them are dry land fond so they do suffer
through global warming. And you know, two years ago they
had just come out of four years of drought which
had affected them greatly. So maybe to buffer the swipelant
(29:40):
a little bit of against global warming. Even he's looking
at a certic cone and a couple of other grapes
that he's planted, mostly from Spain. He's looking to Spain
for a couple of them and he's been are looking
really very beautiful.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
What kind of Spanish varieties?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Oh gosh, But actually a trincadera that's Portuguese. Are those
kind of varieties that an anti he's also looking at,
So those kind of things and I'm looking forward to see.
He says, you know, he's got this Palladius and Colomella
(30:23):
Colonmela being his famous red blend, which at the moment
is predominantly own varieties. And he told me that, you know,
he says he doesn't see Palladias comprised, you know, being
the blend being the same. When his sons take over
the winery maybe ten or twenty years, he's planting these vineyards,
(30:46):
which is for the one test vineyard at the moment
to see which does well, and then they'll expand themselves
into that area. And he says he be his sons
will be making wine from grapes that are different to
the ones that he's using today.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
You know, it's interesting that research is going on down
there because we've we've seen that all around the world. Really,
people are people are people are looking at different grapes
to grow as as the world warms, so they can
figure out how to keep growing grapes effectively. I want
to touch on Pino Tage a little bit. We actually
have one here, So we actually got a bottle of
Copsick Pinotage twenty eighteen to taste while we're here from
(31:24):
our good friend Suzanne Lang at South to South Wines,
a New Orleans based importer focusing solely on South African wines.
Pinotash is South Africa's grape. It was created in the
nineteen twenties.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Was the love child. We love that term.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
She also gave us a dirty afrikaansport to say about
how it looks. But there's a different story there.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Well, i'd love to do that.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, we'll do that off air. It's pinotage. It was.
It was actually created and then forgotten about for a
long time. I love this story. And there were some
students at a university in South Africa that found like
four or five vines in the garden out back and
resuscitated it. So it actually was dormant for many many years,
even decades, and then it was revived. And I think
it's one of the most interesting stories in grape growing.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And it's interesting, great polarizing, but interesting. So talk to
us about that.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
It is very polarizing, and you're quite right. I mean
it's a pedal to did the cross. He only put
four seeds from when he was doing his splicing and
his crossing, and he planted them in his front garden
and he just left them there. He didn't pay them
much attention. And then when he died, he was obviously
lecturing at the university and they were going to move
(32:36):
a new professor into his house. And the new professor
moving in didn't want these vineyards to these UNEs in
his front And it was a young guy called Tron.
He just graduated. He had been a student at Stenabach,
and she'd kind of known what professor had been doing
or had done in the past. And he was cycling
past and he saw the men there with their spades,
(32:58):
getting ready to dig out the vines and throw them away,
and he grabbed them and then rushed off with them
to Elsinburg, which is a viticultural college, and he planted
them there and then he forgot about them. And it
actually took a lecturer at Elsinburg considerably later, like he
started making wine there in the nineteen forty one and
(33:18):
made the first pinotage wine in small cast. His name
was set in Duba and then the first recorded commercial
planting of pinotage was named in nineteen fourty three, and
according to the Pinotige Association, some of the wines had
a very attractive color and more intense than both of
its parents made wines and so and had really lovely venocity.
(33:41):
But there was this kind of acetone like character which
some people liked them didn't like. But you know, panotage
does best when it's proved to produce a smaller crop
and allowed to ripen very well, but not under conditions
of bearing high temperatures and water stress, because then it's
(34:01):
when that acetonal spray paint character comes into the wild.
And the other thing is that this undesirable characteristic, they've
proven that it increases when you allow the fermentation temperatures
to rise above seady degrees. So what we're looking for
is softer conditions page so you manage the water stress
(34:23):
to counteract the high temperatures, and then you carefully control
your fermentation temperatures as well. An interesting actually, nineteen seventy
nine we only had sixty six thousand vines planted to
pinotage in South Africa, but right now it's currently the
eighth most planted grade in the country, so it's certainly
(34:44):
out there so the cups that you have is it
called the statelet plinotage Y Estate. So that's the top
of the range.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
It's and it's a it's got a sticker on it
which is the ABSA top ten pinotage.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Okay, so that's that's absolute. That's one of our banks
in South Africa and they sort of pinotage. For me,
I would call this panetage a moniir. A manir is
a person with attitude and a person who's quite strong
and quite forceful. But it does have this underlying sense
of refinement and fine tenons. It's been made really very
(35:23):
very well, but in that style I would say of
the cabinet Sobbing, it's had a little bit of extraction
and it's had quite a lot of oak treatment. Actually
twenty months in eighty five I tasted this property for platter.
Actually last years I know.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, I actually have it open to the platter's page
a little history. It was found that the Casiquine Estate
was founded in nineteen forty six. It does have a
very nice reading and actually the refined characters is exactly
what it's been written in here. It's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Yeah, I wrote that route. Maybe that's what I was saying.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You know, my thoughts about pinotage and many wines because
a lot of people feel, you know, some people feel
sharaz is also polarizing. You need to try different producers
because every producer has its style. You underscore it how
temperature can impact the wine. So don't write off a
wine because you've had one or two that you don't like.
Keep going because we've had some really amazing pinenutage wines.
(36:25):
Not enough because they're harder to find in the United States,
but we've had some really terrific ones and we're looking
forward to tasting this capstick. The other one she gave us,
which is kind of fun. It's called the Real McCoy.
It's Bart Jordan J A. R. D I N. And
it's based on Cape Riesling, which we're looking forward to trying.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Oh, the Real McCoy is proper German reasoning, and I
take you back and stick. I'm sorry, I'm just so bussy.
It's just ridiculous. If you turn over your page on
the Crops of Thinks, Melanie, you'll see that under the
Tenui range they've got two other penotages there, which are
the Roy Lunt penetage, which means red Land roy lunch
(37:03):
into red Land. And then the skroll hunts penetage and
skull hunts actually means somebody whose posture is not really upright.
And when I spoke to Donny, the owner and winemaker here,
he said, yeah, the vines here are a little bit
you know, they don't really stand upright and they like
to wiggle and wabble all over the place. I think
(37:24):
these pinotages are completely a contrast to the one that
you've got in your glass, you know, whereas one that
you've got in your glass is made like a cabinet.
Can you see my affiliation to these two, the roy
lunt and the scroll hunts made a little bit more
like a pogulet tout that much more extraction and dining
(37:45):
has used a little bit more older oak and bigger oak.
And so they epitomize the trend in South Africa. Not
everybody's following it, but there is this kind of a
trend towards the lighter style reads, reads that are picked
a little bit less right so to give you fourve
point five percent alcohol. They've got crunchier acidity and they're
(38:08):
not worked as much in the cellar, and they usually
only aged in old oak, so I think that councils.
Actually it's a wonderful one thing you guys to look
out for because it does give you the two gales
of penetage.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
One of the hallmarks in Stellenbosch, which is obviously the
pre eminent region in South Africa, is Cabernet Sauvignons, So
we actually have a luris Cabernet which is very well
thought of in South Africa that we also wanted to
talk about and try. I think you know a little.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Bit about that too, Yes I do, but I now
just remember what you are at Jordan. The real McCoy
is because it is German reasoning. You know, for many
years South Africa used to bottle we used to call
it Cape reasoning, and Cape reasoning was actually Crucian, so
it was crucion blank, so completely different character from from reasoning.
(38:58):
And we used to call that bottle it as Cape
reason That fooled everybody. And I really took exception to
this when I was studying wine and I thought, why
can't they just call the wine what it is as
opposed to ripping off the Germans? And then we came
to some kind of agreement with ourselves that we would
designate reasling as wreastling. It would be German reastling, and
(39:22):
we would bottle the others as reasoning would be called Kruscian.
And then moving on to laurish it In. Lrich, who
started the Rish wineries, is one of the most talented
wine makers I know. His son is actually now making
the wine, also an exceptionally talented person. Ettien worked for
a very long time at one of Stellenbosch's iconic properties
(39:45):
called Rustenburg, which I'm sure has been available in US before.
And he actually started out with the Barlas in this
when they started making wine and almost the modern era,
and with for many years with them, helping them establish
their wine range. And he told me when he started
(40:05):
making wine, you know, when wineries in those days were
allowed to start making their own wine and bottling them
under their own label and selling them under their own
label two consumers, was that it was so difficult to
make wine. You used to have to go to the
KWB and fetch some of the yeast the started fermentation
least in a little bucket, and then you'd drive home
(40:28):
in your truck with this bucket strapped into the front
seat and the lid on very tight so you didn't
lose any of this precious yeast. And then when you
get back to your winery, you carefully inoculate your tanks
and you feed this little bucket of YaST and grape
juice of wine to make sure that you had enough
to go around. So eating for years was really recognized
(40:52):
as one of the pioneers of cabinet Southern you're in
Stellenbosch and therefore in the Western Cape. Prior to in
kind of bottling the cabinet in greater quantities, cabinet used
to be blended away with sinseo into things like shatter
live at us. It wasn't really bottled as a variety
of wine and rustenberg and etting changed all of that.
(41:15):
Now they own a little piece of land very close
to where I stay actually, but they don't own any
billions of it of their own, as is also the
trend in South Africa. They're buying grapes and their style
is quite classic, quite borderly. They're looking for a lot
of grape talent to give it structure so that WHI
your age, well, they're looking for that graphite quality. They're
(41:39):
not really looking for excessive fruit and Stenambarsh is proven
to be one of the great places in which to
plant cabinet and ripe a cabinet in South Africa these days.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
You know, we couldn't agree with you more when we
were there. We just fell in love with the cabinets
that we were trying while we were while we were
tasting through some of the vineyards. You know, I think
we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the presence
of pino noir in South Africa as well. We've been
lucky enough to meet and talk with the folks from
Hamilton Russell and they started the Pino noir and cool
(42:14):
climate Shardinay trend down in South Africa and it is growing.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Now.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Can you talk to us a little bit about the
impact that they had in creating that program?
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Very quiet, It's up to Anthony to tell you what
you need. Dad did and it was quite interesting. The
Humal and Art Patty which Heaven on Earth was designated
as a trial area and k WV kept very strict
control over these trial areas for grapes and so an odd.
(42:43):
Anthony's dad, Timothy Hamilton Russell to plant genera and chardonnay
and the trial wines. I do believe that they have
had an after impact on the South African wine industry
in that you know, Timothy actually leaved in tim Hamilff
and us I believed in that Regundian concept as well
(43:06):
of just growing what you're good at and planting one
or two varieties that really belong. In that way, up
until then, every state in South Africa readcro in South
Africa would plant a veritable fruit salad of wine varieties.
(43:26):
He'd have his cabinet next to his surres, next to
his since so next to his penetage, next to his shad,
and they next to his son your plunk. And one
wine maker has told me the are kafe, I said,
you've got twenty seven wines and you'll line up. Why
is because we rely a lot on tourists, and you know,
(43:48):
when the tourists will into your tasting room, you want
to have something to give each and every tourist so
that at least each and every tourist is guaranteed to
find a bottle. I mean, I've spoken to a gentleman
who had a property in Power, which is a relatively
warm growing area and it was ideally suited for charaz
(44:10):
In cabinet. What did he want to plant those little
they didn't like it there whatever, So you know, so
ten pannels and Russell had this vision that in the
cool climate in the himal and Ardor was going to
be ideally suited to lean in Chardon and he proved right.
(44:33):
And Anthony and Olive have built on his legacy and
are doing so much more and very innovative. But they
still focus on pinan Wa and Shard because they've come
to really understand their their and know where they have
to plant, and know where they have to plant, and
(44:54):
know what character they're going to get there. You know,
they're right at the mouth of the him the art
of valley, so it's got this very cool influence from
the sea coming up the valley most of the time.
But then also because they've got elevation. On the other
side of their property is a bay where all the
(45:15):
whales give their beautiful whale watching. But that wind also
comes up flown by the southeastern and it also comes
up and over their hill and then down onto their property. Fornow,
I mean, I've been up there when you're two hundred
meters down or two hundred and fifty meters down. In
the tasting room, you're wearing shorts and a T shirt.
(45:37):
But when you get to the very top of the property,
you're very glad you brought your hoodie into your tracks.
And that's to put up because it's really very chilly
up there. And that's the impact that they've done. They've
also done exceptionally well for South Africa because of this
two wine concepts that they're fantastic ambassadors for South Africa,
that they travel the world and tell the story of
(46:00):
South African, story of Hamel and artists, so very very well.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
They're very good ambassadors. And they also invested in Oregon
very good. And they invested with Bernie Soulez and Chessa
Larston who was there nanny and expressed interest and took
on other administrative work to learn about wine. And now
they've invested in her, which is I think an admirable
way to show how they're giving back and helping lift
(46:25):
up other aspiring young victors and particularly young victors of color.
So it's a terrific story. In many ways. This has
been such a fascinating discussion. Kathy, You've really given us
and our listeners such a wonderful insight into the history
of South African wines, challenges, opportunities and regions. We want
(46:45):
to thank you. One last question, we'd like to ask
us of our wine friends, if you would describe yourself
as a grape variety. What grape would you be? And why?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
I also my husband put that in question, and he
said muscat. And I said to him why And he said,
because you're so sweet and.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
A little bit spicy.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Any specific, any specific or subpard.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
There's so many sub varieties. Exactly when I said, there's
so many sub varieties of musket, which am I must get?
The autumnal, must get, the Hamburg, muscat, blanc, petty blanc,
he said, no, no, no, no, no, less of the blanc
and petty more of the other. That's what he said.
(47:36):
I'd like to think of myself as Shennon because Shennon
was the workhourse of the industry, and I can put
my shoulder to the wheel when necessary to get things done.
I do like to think that a multi dimensional which
shennon also is that it can be made in many
different styles, and I like to think that it's contributing
(47:57):
to the future of the South African wine industry, which
is what I'm trying to do every day, So that's
what I choose for me. Obviously I'm a musket because
I'm Sweetey.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Well, that is your husband speaking, so that sounds very nice.
We think Shannon is a good term for you because
you have worked very hard to lift up the industry
and share your knowledge. The Platters South Africa Wine Guide
really is the bible. I wish we could hold onto
this one, but I guess we have to give it
back Tonight's Suzanne. But if you are going to South Africa,
we urge anyone listening to make sure to go to
(48:32):
wine country. At minimum go to Celbash and Franshop. But
if you can go further and expand your boundaries to
go to some of the regions we mentioned, do and
definitely pick up a copy of Platters Wine Guide. It
will help you immensely. Kathy veon Sale, it's been such
a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for being our
first master of wine in our series. And hopefully we
can raise a glass together in person someday.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
That would be wonderful. I'm look forward to seeing you
at Lesson. No, you can't say that, but we'll drink
some of the beautiful wines. And I'd love you to
meet my dog David, so cheers.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
We'd love to raise a glass with you in person
again sometimes.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
So thank you so much, and we hope for our
listeners you've been enlightened and you'll go out to your
local retailer and when you dine out and ask for
South African wines and expand your tasting palate because, as
we always say at the end of our show, stay
insatiably curious. Thank you,
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(00:21):
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Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live where your hosts Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
bring you the global thought leaders who shape the world
of wine, food, spirits and hospitality, and we do it
with great joy to help you understand the world old
as it is and what to eat and drink. You
(01:02):
can hear all our shows on almost fifty podcast channels
around the world right now.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Absolutely Melanie growing every year as well.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, so we invite you to follow us on Instagram
at the Connected Table. On this show, we're inaugurating a
news series. We have decided to take our listeners around
the world and spotlight the stories of masters of wine.
The masters of wine. I equate it to like having
a PhD. In wine. It is a big important designation,
much like a PhD. It takes many years to accomplish,
(01:32):
and we know many educators and wine writers and other
professionals who have it. I mean, we want to spotlight
those of achievement and do it around the world so
we can then also kind of have a global respective
from other people outside of the United States, right David.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, absolutely, Melanie. We kind of hit on this because
we wanted to tell the story of wine through the
eyes of the people that are most accomplished in wine
education and have gotten the highest education in wine. And
a lot of them focus on a specific region, maybe
where they live, or they focus on a special style
of wine, so they all have a purpose as to
what they work on. Not everybody is a journalist like
(02:05):
we are because we report on wine around the world,
but AMW's do. They really do have a singular focus
a lot of the time. So we want to talk
to them about how they got into wine and what
they have accomplished in wine, and then talked to them
about the wines that they focus on.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So today we're taking you to South Africa. This is
a country we love. We've only visited once. David had
visited as a youth, and we're speaking with Kathy Bonzel.
She became the first Master of Wine on the African
continent when she passed the notoriously difficult, as we said,
prestigious MW examination in two thousand and five. She is
an editor at Platters The South African Wine Guy, which
(02:42):
is the Bible. We have the twenty twenty three edition
here courtesy of our friend Suzanne Long, who is an
importer of South Africa wine. She is a South African
and she has South to South imports in Louisiana. We're
really excited to get some perspective from South Africa. So
Kathy Vonseil, welcome to the at the table.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Thank you so much, Melanie, Thank you so much. David.
I'm super excited. I don't believe that South Africa is
your first.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well, it holds a very dear place in my heart
and Melanie's. We spent our pre wedding honeymoon in South Africa,
and I was there in nineteen eighty one, if you
can believe it, when I was a teenager and I
spent seven weeks roaming around Southern Africa with a group
of other high school students and just had a great summer.
And I fell in love with South Africa in particular
(03:32):
while I was on that trip.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
That was a long time ago and historically and politically
quite different. It's very interesting. Let's talk about you. You're
originally from Johannesburg. Tell us about growing up in South Africa.
What was it like back then?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, yes, it was completely different back then, you know, David.
In nineteen eighty one, I was writing my Metrick examinations,
which is South Final Europe High School, and at that
stage we were living in a party at South Africa.
(04:07):
So it was quite a different world from what it
is for us today. I have to admit, because about
how I grew up in South Africa, and because of
the political regime and the laws we followed, I actually
had an absolutely I think adylic childhood. My parents weren't
(04:27):
very rich. We did have to scrimp and save, and
I do know that friends of mine whose dads were
doctors or white collar workers, whereas my dad was a
blue collar worker, they used to get things far easier
than I did that, I really lucked for nothing. I
had so much fun, and I enjoyed life to the full,
(04:51):
and I really enjoyed interacting with my parents and my family.
But the one thing about joe Burg is that it's
definitely not wine country. It's continental South Africa, so the
summers are fiercely hot and the winters are icy cold,
and not your Mediterranean climate, which is where I'm living
(05:15):
now in the Western Cape. I moved down to the
Western Cape with my husband in nineteen ninety five, so
we've been here for a while and really enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I know you live south of Cape Town in the
Western Cape, and it's a beautiful area and definitely a
much more I think you would say, a Mediterranean climate,
but it's a much more ocean driven climate as well,
and we'll talk about that a little bit later. Tell
us about what led you into wine, because growing up
in joe Burg, which is, as you said, is not
(05:47):
wine country. I've been there. It's basically a desert, and
so you actually got into wine at some point. But
tell us how that happened. Was there a moment, was
there a bottle, Was there an encounter that you said, ah,
this might be for me.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Well, actually, part of that idyllic childhood I had that
was filled with sports and school and academic achievement and.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Club sports, school sports and everything. I didn't sit still
for a minute. I want you to know I was
actually I think now I could be described as a
precocious teenager because part of that childhood was going around
to friends homes over the weekend and while their parents
were out, we would bry or barbecue as you know
(06:32):
it in the States, and just hang out with a
gang of friends. And at that stage my friends, the
naughty little children, were drinking rum and Coca cola, and
we'd be about sixteen or seventeen, completely underage drinking, and
that's what they would be drinking. And I say I
(06:54):
was precocious because I decided I didn't like rum and
Coca cola. It was too sweet for me. And I
didn't like the gyms and tonics. They were at that
stage to bitter for me. So I thought I'll drink wine.
Because my grandfather used to treat us every Christmas and
take us to the Older Audience Club and he would
buy the wine and we'd drink it with our Christmas dinner.
(07:17):
Other than that, my parents didn't have alcohol in the house,
so I went off to the right page of about sixteen.
I went off to a bottle store and I started
buying red wine that I would drink with my friends
on Saturdays or Sundays at their house. They would be
drinking lots of rum and coke and I would be
(07:39):
sipping my read wine, and so I actually did quite
enjoy it. But I didn't really know much more about
the wine scene, you know, living up in Johannesburg in
the Highfeldt, where everything is beige during winter when the
grass dies down, and not being in the family in
which wine was part of our culture except for Christmas,
(08:03):
I really didn't know much about wine. So I got
into wine when I met my husband, and then he
and I decided those was our drink of choice. But
the real turning point came when we were at my
parents' house one Saturday for a bride and Philip saw
a Cape Wine Academy preliminary Wine course booklet lying around
(08:27):
and he picked it up. And he looked at this
book and he asked her if she enjoyed the course,
and she said yes, very much. So so at that
stage I was nuts about cycling and I'd already done
one archur cycle to it. But my friend who'd done
it with me that very the year before, she said,
I'm not cycling it ever again. Been there, got the
(08:48):
T shirt. That's enough for me. I thought, no, got
to do it again. It was so much fun. So
Philip said to me, okay, would you go on this
preliminary wine course with me? So I said, okay, for sure,
if you cycle the Argus cycle tour with me. So
we did both. We went on the preliminary wine course
(09:09):
and Philip cycle an Argus cycle tour with me, and
that rarely got us into the world of wine. I
think that these wine schools can be very devious, you know.
They gave us very good marks for our first examination
or first test that we said we thought we were
the bee's knees and this was easy and we were
(09:29):
going to conquer it all. And so we signed up
for the certificate course. Then we signed up for the
diploma course, and then that was it. We were totally
bitten by the wine boat, so much so that at
a friend's wedding in the Drakensburg one morning, the morning
just before we got ready to go to the wedding,
(09:49):
Philip said to me, Kathy, do you think that you
could do what you do from the Western Cape? I said, yeah,
why do you ask me that? Because I think we
should move to the Cape to be closer to the vines,
and that way you and I could both maybe get
into the wine industry. At that stage, Philip and I
(10:10):
were both freelance journalists. I'd been a marketing journalist, Philip
had been a computer journalist. And it was the late
eighties start of the nineties when this happened, and it
was when you know, big computers, computers really burst into
the scene in South Africa, and so Philip became a
(10:31):
computer journalist and then he started writing press releases for
public relations firms because the bunnies and balloons girls couldn't
understand computer speak, and we thought that we could. We
could take this careers, both writing forsrooms down to the Cape.
We were the first, I think ever, I was the
(10:54):
first in the marketing industry to get an email address.
My email address is Kathy at Africa dot com. No
ones and twos know anything funny and it just played Kathy.
I was the first one to get that man address.
And we moved in nineteen ninety five, so that was it.
(11:15):
So when we're in the Darkensburg waiting to go to
the Striends wedding, I said, to put up safe if
we moved to the Cape, what we're going to do.
He said, well, I don't know. We'll have to carry
on doing what we do, but maybe we can try
and move into the into the wine industry. And I
looked at him and I said, do you know what
John and Erica Platter, they're getting old now. Surely what
(11:38):
we could do is just go down there and take
over the Platter's Wine Guide from men. And Philip looked
at me kind of strangely, and we moved to the Cape.
And after a few months he had done a little
bit of writing for all wine magazines in South Africa
and was starting to get invitations to attend wine events.
(12:00):
And he came back from one one day and he said,
guess who I sat next to you? And I said,
I have not the foggiest and he said, Erica plattin.
And she tells me that she and John are selling
the Platt as wine Guy, and as part of the deal,
she needs to find an editor to take over from her.
I said, Oh, that's interesting. He said, yes, I'm expecting
(12:22):
a call from the new publisher, And with that Philip
got a call from Andrew McDowell, who was the new
owner of The Flatus Wine Guy. Philip met Andrew, and
Andrew offered him the job, and within a week he
was appointed as the editor of The Flat As Wine
guid So you see, the moral of the story is
from my lips to God's ears sometimes.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Well, certainly serendipitous.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
That serendipitous, But there's a couple of important points in there.
You made a strategy.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You were in other.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Careers, which many people who aspired to work in way are,
and you held on to that. You made a strategic
decision to move to be closer to the vines, which
I do feel is important if you're going to be immersed.
And you threw yourself out of the world, and they
call that manifestation. Philip sat next to Erica Platter, and
the Platters Wine Guide has been around for how long?
Nineteen eight eight and you and Philip as a Philip
(13:18):
editor and your associate editor, so wonderful that you are
able to work on such an enriching, wonderful guide together
have been doing this for how long with Platters.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Well, in order to not be accused of nepotism, Philip
never considered asking me to join him as a taster
on Fatter while he was being editor because he took
over in ninety eight. So I got my master's to
wine and it was one of the very first questions.
He asked me, if could you join Platter as a
(13:48):
toaster now please, Kathy, and I thought, yeah, just like
Philip makes me go through all the hoops and hurdles
just so that my tasting ability and my knowledge of
wine can't be criticized, because yeah, potentially he could have
been taken up on epotism if he's just put his
wife on the team.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Oh, I know how that goes on. I had a
company that I ran for many years prior to this.
I hired David to work with me after we were
already a couple because he was so knowledge about wine
and we were doing major wine events and I had
to navigate this that very carefully and so we understand it.
But the point is, you get the best people for
the best job, and you need to think regardless of
(14:29):
who they are and what the connection is, and you
as a master of wine. We're clearly qualified and this
is a wonderful guide. I mean, it is as we
said in the beginning the Bible of South Africa. I'm
curious it's been going on, as we said since nineteen
eighty and the industry has changed enormously. South Africa has
had lots of opportunities, but also lots of challenges. We
(14:50):
know that because we know that. You know, there's been
programs with wines of South Africa over the years. They've come,
they've gone. Knowing that you have a platform to talk
to a global audience, what are you most excited about
that you want to share about the wines of South Africa.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Firstly, I would like
to say, drink Shennon. It's a wonderful, great variety that's
doing really well in South Africa. And there's not for nothing,
widely regarded as South Africa's signature white grape. Our winemakers
have truly thrown themselves at this grape and they are
(15:24):
making wonderful Shennons of a variety of different styles. So
it's something that sets us apart. So I think you
should look out for shennon because there are so many
wonderful Shennons at really good prices. The other thing is,
although I've asked you to look at shennon, don't be
afraid to try anything else. Because our winemakers are really skilled.
(15:48):
They took on board the learnings of the late nineties
and the early two thousands. You know, before that winemakers
or producers would go there and say, I want to
make this wine and the consumer must drink it regardless.
In the late nineties early two thousands, when we got
let back into the world after Mandela was freed and
(16:09):
we held our first democratic elections, they learned that they've
got to create the best wines that they can that
speak to the there are, but at the same style,
they've got to appeal to consumers. So our wines these
days are more consumer driven and meet the needs of
the market. You know, the Western Case where I am
living now is one of the ten natural wonders of
(16:32):
the world because of the diversity of our flower kingdom
in this little patch of earth that I live in.
In fact, we have more species of flora in the
Western Cape than you have in the whole of the
Northern Hemisphere. And I think that diversity is reflected in
our wines. We're going to talk about it later, but
(16:54):
the teras of South Africa, particularly the aspects the proximity
to the ocean and the sea breezes and that maritime
influence means that we have many diverse micro ecosystems in
which to grow grapes, and so there are little pockets
of brilliance everywhere, and brilliance that comes to you at
(17:18):
very good prices, and they're at even better prices. Our
big branded wines are made to a really high standard.
So I really think my message to you guys is
to just give South African wines a chance. By everything
that's on the shelf, taste it and see what it delivers,
(17:39):
and then I believe you will understand that we do
have something special to offer the world of wine.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Well, I've read South Africa as some of the oldest
soils dating back billions of years, and Shannon is like
eighteen percent of the market right now.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Shannon is eighteen percent of our bannette plantings. And yes,
our soil are among the oldest of the oldest wort
wine And the reason for that is that when you
used to have that one big super continent this inland
sea formed and over many many years the mud settled,
then the crustacea, more mud, et cetera, and it built
(18:17):
up and up and up and up, and then as
the continents split apart and Falkland Plateau then came apparently
tearing back to the African continent. It collided with the
southern tip of Africa and it pushed all those ancient
soils to the surface, and those are called the Cape
Cold Mountains, and that is on which we plant our
(18:40):
vineyards today.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
South Africa has a long history of making wine. Kathy
first wines were planted in the sixteen fifties. What I'd
love to do is to kind of dial it back
and talk about the history of South African wine for
a few minutes for those of our listeners that don't
know much about South Africa and its history and making wine.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yes, so the first vines were planted in sixteen fifty five,
and we believe that these were Krin growth fronts growth
and Steen and Krindrave turned out to be Semion and
steam which was named as Steen because people who planted
it and worked with it actually thought it was a
(19:17):
German variety. So that's linked to Stein. And Stein. But
in nineteen sixty three it was discovered that steam was
actually Shannon, and so Shannon today plays in a very
important role. So I think that nineteen sixty three is
one of the milestones in South Africa. And do you
know that fifty two percent of all of our old
vine vineyards are Shennon vineyards, So that's also really very
(19:42):
very important. But going back to this the milestones, let's
start at the very beginning. South Africa is also quite
unique in that we actually know, we have documented proof
of when our wine industry started, because young van Riebeck,
the governor of the Cape, wrote in his diary on
the second of February sixteen fifty nine, today, praise be
(20:06):
to God, wine was made for the first time from
the Cape grapes, documented proof that was definitely a start
of the industry. Another one that I'm particularly fond of
is seventeen sixty one because that is when the mines
of Constantia started being exporting to Europe. And by seventeen
(20:27):
eighty eight, those luscious dessert wines of Constantia were winning
acclaim throughout Europe. You know the story they featured in
the books of Jane Austen. It was drunk by Napoleon
while he was in exile, et cetera, et cetera. Obviously,
eighteen eighty six we have to talk about some disaster
that was when Bilosra destroyed millions of ye the cape.
(20:51):
We did then turn to the US and to American
rootstuffs to help bring our industry back up to speed.
And what discussion about Africa would not be complete without
a discussion about pinotage. Nineteen twenty five, Professor Perrault successfully
cross pollinated thin av permutage, which is actually sins, to
(21:13):
develop our own first grape variety called the pinotage. And
in nineteen sixty one the first pinotage, which was in
nineteen fifty nine was marketed on the market under the
Lansaak nabel, which still exists today. And then in another
really big milestone with nineteen seventy three, our wine of
(21:34):
origin was instituted. Can I get geeky about the wine
of origin? It's vitally important. So it guarantees that when
an origin is written on the nabel, that one hundred
percent of those grapes come from that region. So if
it says Stellinbosh one hundred percent of the grapes come
(21:56):
from Stellenbosch. It also guarantees in law I'm now with
EU legislation that if it says cabinet or it says
another variety on the nable, that eighty five percent of
that variety is in that bottle. And it also guarantees
that if it has a vintage, it means that eighty
(22:17):
five percent of the carvest comes from that vintage. So
that's why nineteen seventy three is so important because of
this one of origin legislation. The other thing that I
think is a milestone is two thousand and nineteen when
the Old Vine's Project launched the Certified Heritage Vineyard Seals
(22:38):
that members can play on bottles of wine made from vineyards.
It's thirty five years in older. Each single one of
these middle stickers actually indicates the yo that that vineyard
was planted in. And so this certification seal, which is
of world first nobody else has it, guarantees authentic wines
growed according to the Old Vine Product, viticultural and wine
(23:01):
making guidelines.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know, that's a really good point. We've done a
lot of work in Europe and one of the ones
that we think of always as old vines as Spain.
There's a ton of old vines grown in Spain, but
you never know quite how old they are. So this
designation that you folks have come up with puts a
number on it and makes it official.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
You raise a point, they David that in Spain they've
got many, many, many vineyards of old vines, and often
those old vines are one hundred years or older. So
you know, why would South Africa be thirty five years in?
Older Africa is a hard place. And Iven Saudi famous winemaker,
and then I know quite well I've asked him that
question thirty five years even. He says, look, Kathy, you've
(23:42):
got to be tough to grow up in Africa, and
vines that make it to fifty years in South Africa
or sixty five years in South Africa are really tough
old vines. And I agree with him. Look a lot
of the vineyards that the Old Vine Project has certified
asked much older than thirty five years. Mflow Kirston is
(24:03):
the oldest Shennon vignit and that was planted in nineteen
oh five. And then a shout out to my friend
Brussa Kruger who was the founder of the Old Vine Project.
She became the first pretty cultist and first South African
to be inducted into the Cantor Magazine Hall of Fame
last year. So a lot of milestones, huh, A.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Lot of milestones for us. It's a fascinating country for
a lot of reasons. But the wines are just so
wonderful down there. It's had a lot of growth over
the years. Especially lately, there seem to be more wine
regions than ever in South Africa. Tell us a little
bit about the expansion in wine making in South Africa
and are there hurdles that it's going through as well
at this time.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
One of our biggest hurtles challenging us right now is
load shedding. Load shedding is when there's a blackout, when
your electricity supply commission switches off the big plug in
its office and stops sending electricity to designated areas within
the country. And this has been going on and off
for about ten years now. This year we've had load
(25:05):
shedding every single day. Some days out of twenty four hours,
I won't have electricity in my house for seven and
a half hours, not all at one go. They very
kindly break it up into small chunks for US two
and a half hours here, two and a half hours there.
But it has a very profound impact and is having
a profound impact on the winemakers and the wine industry.
(25:29):
I was chatting to Chris Williams, who used to be
the winemaker meal List but is now left Mealist and
he's focusing on his own brand called The Boundary, And
Chris was saying that he's lost forty percent of the
time in his cellar at this harvest alone because of
the consistent and persistent load shedding. Sometimes he says he
has to get home at four o'clock and then wake
(25:52):
up at ten to go to the winery at eleven
o'clock at night because only now is he going to
be able to put his wines through the press.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
That must be very frustrating to everybody in the business,
because because if you're in the industry, you know that
growing grapes and making wine is a very scheduled activity,
so you can't just do it on a whim. Everything
has to happened at a certain time, so it must
be very frustrating. I could completely understand that.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
You know, Kathy in Europe we're hearing the same thing
about the electrical issues. It seems to be a global problem.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
It's just dreadful. And I hate to say this, but
twenty years ago in that our current government was warned
that the infrastructure was failing and that they should invest
in renewables, and they took a decision not to invest
in renewables. And it's come, as they say in that
well worn proverb, to bite us on the fund and
it's going to take us a long time to dig
(26:39):
out a bit. Those are challenges we're facing at the moment.
You asked me about the spread of the thing. It's
so the best known region Stellenbosh is still absolutely a
pool in the South African wine industries oyster because it
is an utterly beautiful place to be. The k Dutch
architecture is very prevalent, so it's beautiful from an architectural
(27:02):
point of view, from a scenery point of view. There
are families here that have been making wine because for
your four or five generations, and they know their soils
and they know what they need to do to make
great wine. So there's a great deal of history there.
Similarly with places in Constantia and Pole but as the
winemakers have moved out into other areas. Look, the swat
(27:24):
Blunt has come under a lot of focus, not recently
actually have been now almost fifteen years since they had
their Swatland Revolution and showed what South Africa could do
with grown great varieties. And you had Andrea and Chris
Mullen your team with Evan Sardi and Ardie Bardenhost and
Mark Kink's winemaker Kulli Low from Porcelain bach I forget
(27:49):
who the other one was. Oh, but anyway, they launched
the Swatland Revolution. But you've got to remember that the
Swotland was actually has always been a producer of a
lot of grapes. Although the focus on quality wine out
of the region is on growing varieties, it's a source
(28:10):
of very good pinetat. A lot of grape growers make
their fortune because there's a lot of cabinet Southern in there,
and they even plant chardonnay in the slant. But you
never care about that. And you know, as far back
as fifty years ago, Charles back from Fairview was very
interested in the Swap London, the potential that it had,
(28:34):
and he and a few others started a winery called
Spice Route and that's where Evan Sadie actually Cutty's chief
of winemaker. He was winemakers for child that Spice moved
for many years. Saw the potential and that's why he
kind of looked to invest in the place. Evans just planted,
(28:55):
just planted, I think seven years ago. He started planted
in his own and he has in the Swipeland, and
he's looking at grape varieties that perhaps are going to
cushion the swipe plant from global warming. Most of the
vines that have been that have been planted in the
(29:16):
Swipeland are to bush vine and or chela and most
of them are dry land fond so they do suffer
through global warming. And you know, two years ago they
had just come out of four years of drought which
had affected them greatly. So maybe to buffer the swipelant
(29:40):
a little bit of against global warming. Even he's looking
at a certic cone and a couple of other grapes
that he's planted, mostly from Spain. He's looking to Spain
for a couple of them and he's been are looking
really very beautiful.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
What kind of Spanish varieties?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Oh gosh, But actually a trincadera that's Portuguese. Are those
kind of varieties that an anti he's also looking at,
So those kind of things and I'm looking forward to see.
He says, you know, he's got this Palladius and Colomella
(30:23):
Colonmela being his famous red blend, which at the moment
is predominantly own varieties. And he told me that, you know,
he says he doesn't see Palladias comprised, you know, being
the blend being the same. When his sons take over
the winery maybe ten or twenty years, he's planting these vineyards,
(30:46):
which is for the one test vineyard at the moment
to see which does well, and then they'll expand themselves
into that area. And he says he be his sons
will be making wine from grapes that are different to
the ones that he's using today.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
You know, it's interesting that research is going on down
there because we've we've seen that all around the world. Really,
people are people are people are looking at different grapes
to grow as as the world warms, so they can
figure out how to keep growing grapes effectively. I want
to touch on Pino Tage a little bit. We actually
have one here, So we actually got a bottle of
Copsick Pinotage twenty eighteen to taste while we're here from
(31:24):
our good friend Suzanne Lang at South to South Wines,
a New Orleans based importer focusing solely on South African wines.
Pinotash is South Africa's grape. It was created in the
nineteen twenties.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Was the love child. We love that term.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
She also gave us a dirty afrikaansport to say about
how it looks. But there's a different story there.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Well, i'd love to do that.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, we'll do that off air. It's pinotage. It was.
It was actually created and then forgotten about for a
long time. I love this story. And there were some
students at a university in South Africa that found like
four or five vines in the garden out back and
resuscitated it. So it actually was dormant for many many years,
even decades, and then it was revived. And I think
it's one of the most interesting stories in grape growing.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And it's interesting, great polarizing, but interesting. So talk to
us about that.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
It is very polarizing, and you're quite right. I mean
it's a pedal to did the cross. He only put
four seeds from when he was doing his splicing and
his crossing, and he planted them in his front garden
and he just left them there. He didn't pay them
much attention. And then when he died, he was obviously
lecturing at the university and they were going to move
(32:36):
a new professor into his house. And the new professor
moving in didn't want these vineyards to these UNEs in
his front And it was a young guy called Tron.
He just graduated. He had been a student at Stenabach,
and she'd kind of known what professor had been doing
or had done in the past. And he was cycling
past and he saw the men there with their spades,
(32:58):
getting ready to dig out the vines and throw them away,
and he grabbed them and then rushed off with them
to Elsinburg, which is a viticultural college, and he planted
them there and then he forgot about them. And it
actually took a lecturer at Elsinburg considerably later, like he
started making wine there in the nineteen forty one and
(33:18):
made the first pinotage wine in small cast. His name
was set in Duba and then the first recorded commercial
planting of pinotage was named in nineteen fourty three, and
according to the Pinotige Association, some of the wines had
a very attractive color and more intense than both of
its parents made wines and so and had really lovely venocity.
(33:41):
But there was this kind of acetone like character which
some people liked them didn't like. But you know, panotage
does best when it's proved to produce a smaller crop
and allowed to ripen very well, but not under conditions
of bearing high temperatures and water stress, because then it's
(34:01):
when that acetonal spray paint character comes into the wild.
And the other thing is that this undesirable characteristic, they've
proven that it increases when you allow the fermentation temperatures
to rise above seady degrees. So what we're looking for
is softer conditions page so you manage the water stress
(34:23):
to counteract the high temperatures, and then you carefully control
your fermentation temperatures as well. An interesting actually, nineteen seventy
nine we only had sixty six thousand vines planted to
pinotage in South Africa, but right now it's currently the
eighth most planted grade in the country, so it's certainly
(34:44):
out there so the cups that you have is it
called the statelet plinotage Y Estate. So that's the top
of the range.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
It's and it's a it's got a sticker on it
which is the ABSA top ten pinotage.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Okay, so that's that's absolute. That's one of our banks
in South Africa and they sort of pinotage. For me,
I would call this panetage a moniir. A manir is
a person with attitude and a person who's quite strong
and quite forceful. But it does have this underlying sense
of refinement and fine tenons. It's been made really very
(35:23):
very well, but in that style I would say of
the cabinet Sobbing, it's had a little bit of extraction
and it's had quite a lot of oak treatment. Actually
twenty months in eighty five I tasted this property for platter.
Actually last years I know.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, I actually have it open to the platter's page
a little history. It was found that the Casiquine Estate
was founded in nineteen forty six. It does have a
very nice reading and actually the refined characters is exactly
what it's been written in here. It's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Yeah, I wrote that route. Maybe that's what I was saying.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You know, my thoughts about pinotage and many wines because
a lot of people feel, you know, some people feel
sharaz is also polarizing. You need to try different producers
because every producer has its style. You underscore it how
temperature can impact the wine. So don't write off a
wine because you've had one or two that you don't like.
Keep going because we've had some really amazing pinenutage wines.
(36:25):
Not enough because they're harder to find in the United States,
but we've had some really terrific ones and we're looking
forward to tasting this capstick. The other one she gave us,
which is kind of fun. It's called the Real McCoy.
It's Bart Jordan J A. R. D I N. And
it's based on Cape Riesling, which we're looking forward to trying.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Oh, the Real McCoy is proper German reasoning, and I
take you back and stick. I'm sorry, I'm just so bussy.
It's just ridiculous. If you turn over your page on
the Crops of Thinks, Melanie, you'll see that under the
Tenui range they've got two other penotages there, which are
the Roy Lunt penetage, which means red Land roy lunch
(37:03):
into red Land. And then the skroll hunts penetage and
skull hunts actually means somebody whose posture is not really upright.
And when I spoke to Donny, the owner and winemaker here,
he said, yeah, the vines here are a little bit
you know, they don't really stand upright and they like
to wiggle and wabble all over the place. I think
(37:24):
these pinotages are completely a contrast to the one that
you've got in your glass, you know, whereas one that
you've got in your glass is made like a cabinet.
Can you see my affiliation to these two, the roy
lunt and the scroll hunts made a little bit more
like a pogulet tout that much more extraction and dining
(37:45):
has used a little bit more older oak and bigger oak.
And so they epitomize the trend in South Africa. Not
everybody's following it, but there is this kind of a
trend towards the lighter style reads, reads that are picked
a little bit less right so to give you fourve
point five percent alcohol. They've got crunchier acidity and they're
(38:08):
not worked as much in the cellar, and they usually
only aged in old oak, so I think that councils.
Actually it's a wonderful one thing you guys to look
out for because it does give you the two gales
of penetage.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
One of the hallmarks in Stellenbosch, which is obviously the
pre eminent region in South Africa, is Cabernet Sauvignons, So
we actually have a luris Cabernet which is very well
thought of in South Africa that we also wanted to
talk about and try. I think you know a little.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Bit about that too, Yes I do, but I now
just remember what you are at Jordan. The real McCoy
is because it is German reasoning. You know, for many
years South Africa used to bottle we used to call
it Cape reasoning, and Cape reasoning was actually Crucian, so
it was crucion blank, so completely different character from from reasoning.
(38:58):
And we used to call that bottle it as Cape
reason That fooled everybody. And I really took exception to
this when I was studying wine and I thought, why
can't they just call the wine what it is as
opposed to ripping off the Germans? And then we came
to some kind of agreement with ourselves that we would
designate reasling as wreastling. It would be German reastling, and
(39:22):
we would bottle the others as reasoning would be called Kruscian.
And then moving on to laurish it In. Lrich, who
started the Rish wineries, is one of the most talented
wine makers I know. His son is actually now making
the wine, also an exceptionally talented person. Ettien worked for
a very long time at one of Stellenbosch's iconic properties
(39:45):
called Rustenburg, which I'm sure has been available in US before.
And he actually started out with the Barlas in this
when they started making wine and almost the modern era,
and with for many years with them, helping them establish
their wine range. And he told me when he started
(40:05):
making wine, you know, when wineries in those days were
allowed to start making their own wine and bottling them
under their own label and selling them under their own
label two consumers, was that it was so difficult to
make wine. You used to have to go to the
KWB and fetch some of the yeast the started fermentation
least in a little bucket, and then you'd drive home
(40:28):
in your truck with this bucket strapped into the front
seat and the lid on very tight so you didn't
lose any of this precious yeast. And then when you
get back to your winery, you carefully inoculate your tanks
and you feed this little bucket of YaST and grape
juice of wine to make sure that you had enough
to go around. So eating for years was really recognized
(40:52):
as one of the pioneers of cabinet Southern you're in
Stellenbosch and therefore in the Western Cape. Prior to in
kind of bottling the cabinet in greater quantities, cabinet used
to be blended away with sinseo into things like shatter
live at us. It wasn't really bottled as a variety
of wine and rustenberg and etting changed all of that.
(41:15):
Now they own a little piece of land very close
to where I stay actually, but they don't own any
billions of it of their own, as is also the
trend in South Africa. They're buying grapes and their style
is quite classic, quite borderly. They're looking for a lot
of grape talent to give it structure so that WHI
your age, well, they're looking for that graphite quality. They're
(41:39):
not really looking for excessive fruit and Stenambarsh is proven
to be one of the great places in which to
plant cabinet and ripe a cabinet in South Africa these days.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
You know, we couldn't agree with you more when we
were there. We just fell in love with the cabinets
that we were trying while we were while we were
tasting through some of the vineyards. You know, I think
we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the presence
of pino noir in South Africa as well. We've been
lucky enough to meet and talk with the folks from
Hamilton Russell and they started the Pino noir and cool
(42:14):
climate Shardinay trend down in South Africa and it is growing.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Now.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Can you talk to us a little bit about the
impact that they had in creating that program?
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Very quiet, It's up to Anthony to tell you what
you need. Dad did and it was quite interesting. The
Humal and Art Patty which Heaven on Earth was designated
as a trial area and k WV kept very strict
control over these trial areas for grapes and so an odd.
(42:43):
Anthony's dad, Timothy Hamilton Russell to plant genera and chardonnay
and the trial wines. I do believe that they have
had an after impact on the South African wine industry
in that you know, Timothy actually leaved in tim Hamilff
and us I believed in that Regundian concept as well
(43:06):
of just growing what you're good at and planting one
or two varieties that really belong. In that way, up
until then, every state in South Africa readcro in South
Africa would plant a veritable fruit salad of wine varieties.
(43:26):
He'd have his cabinet next to his surres, next to
his since so next to his penetage, next to his shad,
and they next to his son your plunk. And one
wine maker has told me the are kafe, I said,
you've got twenty seven wines and you'll line up. Why
is because we rely a lot on tourists, and you know,
(43:48):
when the tourists will into your tasting room, you want
to have something to give each and every tourist so
that at least each and every tourist is guaranteed to
find a bottle. I mean, I've spoken to a gentleman
who had a property in Power, which is a relatively
warm growing area and it was ideally suited for charaz
(44:10):
In cabinet. What did he want to plant those little
they didn't like it there whatever, So you know, so
ten pannels and Russell had this vision that in the
cool climate in the himal and Ardor was going to
be ideally suited to lean in Chardon and he proved right.
(44:33):
And Anthony and Olive have built on his legacy and
are doing so much more and very innovative. But they
still focus on pinan Wa and Shard because they've come
to really understand their their and know where they have
to plant, and know where they have to plant, and
(44:54):
know what character they're going to get there. You know,
they're right at the mouth of the him the art
of valley, so it's got this very cool influence from
the sea coming up the valley most of the time.
But then also because they've got elevation. On the other
side of their property is a bay where all the
(45:15):
whales give their beautiful whale watching. But that wind also
comes up flown by the southeastern and it also comes
up and over their hill and then down onto their property. Fornow,
I mean, I've been up there when you're two hundred
meters down or two hundred and fifty meters down. In
the tasting room, you're wearing shorts and a T shirt.
(45:37):
But when you get to the very top of the property,
you're very glad you brought your hoodie into your tracks.
And that's to put up because it's really very chilly
up there. And that's the impact that they've done. They've
also done exceptionally well for South Africa because of this
two wine concepts that they're fantastic ambassadors for South Africa,
that they travel the world and tell the story of
(46:00):
South African, story of Hamel and artists, so very very well.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
They're very good ambassadors. And they also invested in Oregon
very good. And they invested with Bernie Soulez and Chessa
Larston who was there nanny and expressed interest and took
on other administrative work to learn about wine. And now
they've invested in her, which is I think an admirable
way to show how they're giving back and helping lift
(46:25):
up other aspiring young victors and particularly young victors of color.
So it's a terrific story. In many ways. This has
been such a fascinating discussion. Kathy, You've really given us
and our listeners such a wonderful insight into the history
of South African wines, challenges, opportunities and regions. We want
(46:45):
to thank you. One last question, we'd like to ask
us of our wine friends, if you would describe yourself
as a grape variety. What grape would you be? And why?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
I also my husband put that in question, and he
said muscat. And I said to him why And he said,
because you're so sweet and.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
A little bit spicy.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Any specific, any specific or subpard.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
There's so many sub varieties. Exactly when I said, there's
so many sub varieties of musket, which am I must get?
The autumnal, must get, the Hamburg, muscat, blanc, petty blanc,
he said, no, no, no, no, no, less of the blanc
and petty more of the other. That's what he said.
(47:36):
I'd like to think of myself as Shennon because Shennon
was the workhourse of the industry, and I can put
my shoulder to the wheel when necessary to get things done.
I do like to think that a multi dimensional which
shennon also is that it can be made in many
different styles, and I like to think that it's contributing
(47:57):
to the future of the South African wine industry, which
is what I'm trying to do every day, So that's
what I choose for me. Obviously I'm a musket because
I'm Sweetey.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Well, that is your husband speaking, so that sounds very nice.
We think Shannon is a good term for you because
you have worked very hard to lift up the industry
and share your knowledge. The Platters South Africa Wine Guide
really is the bible. I wish we could hold onto
this one, but I guess we have to give it
back Tonight's Suzanne. But if you are going to South Africa,
we urge anyone listening to make sure to go to
(48:32):
wine country. At minimum go to Celbash and Franshop. But
if you can go further and expand your boundaries to
go to some of the regions we mentioned, do and
definitely pick up a copy of Platters Wine Guide. It
will help you immensely. Kathy veon Sale, it's been such
a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for being our
first master of wine in our series. And hopefully we
can raise a glass together in person someday.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
That would be wonderful. I'm look forward to seeing you
at Lesson. No, you can't say that, but we'll drink
some of the beautiful wines. And I'd love you to
meet my dog David, so cheers.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
We'd love to raise a glass with you in person
again sometimes.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
So thank you so much, and we hope for our
listeners you've been enlightened and you'll go out to your
local retailer and when you dine out and ask for
South African wines and expand your tasting palate because, as
we always say at the end of our show, stay
insatiably curious. Thank you,
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